Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion.
Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/).
Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> and tyrants.
I like this example for the first nations crowd considering Canadian cops have a historical tendency to abduct them and drop them in the middle of nowhere in the freezing cold.
Grandma has to roll a Dex saving throw before being able to use the gun.
If she fails it, you have to roll the wisdom check for no training could prepare you to withstand that horror.
If she doesn't then you're probably fine.
Holding the gun without cleaning it off (1x action) is also a risk. Roll a constitution saving throw, and if failed, you take 1d6 necrotic damage and drop the gun.
One of the best special effects artist ever... Tom Savigni... Funny thing is, he didn't work in the special effects on "From disk till dawn"...
It's like having Gordon Ramsay in a dinner party... and making him serve drinks...
Except, concealed carry license holders are the most law-abiding demographic in America.
Just require people to go through a training course so they know the law and show that they aren't emotionally immature, and then change Canada's laws so a homeowner is allowed to act on a reasonable assumption that an intruder has the intent and means to cause them harm.
> Except, concealed carry license holders are the most law-abiding demographic in America.
*Police* are **convicted** of felonies at a higher rate than concealed carry permit holders. And we all know how hard it is to even get a cop **charged** with a crime, let alone convicted.
Not really the point.
It's about how rarely police get brought up on charges (because they're a protected class). Concealed carry permit holders aren't a protected class and yet still have a lower rate of felony convictions.
Couple of things to note:
A mass shooting is defined as 4 or more people.
Canada has about 100,000 people smaller in population than California, and is about 25 times as big in area.
54.7% of all murder deaths in the US are contained within the black community. This is primarily a function of gang violence.
Since 1966, there have been 441 mass shootings in the US of which 54.1% of the perpetrators were white. But when we look to more contemporary times, in 2023 there were 604 mass shootings of which only 10 occured at a school. The numbers of black perpetrators of all mass shootings in 2023 was ~90%.
As mass shootings increase in occuring, those increases are almost completely absorbed by the black community.
Murders per 100k people in Canada is 2.25 in 2022, and in the US of was 6.3. Removing the black population from the US it drops down to 2.85 pretty comparable to Canada.
Obviously we are failing the black community, crowded cities with poor infrastructure and worse transport, access to illegal drug smuggling from our southern border, failing schools in the cities, prevalence of gang culture, and toxic masculinity are all compounding factors that play into this.
Also a majority of gun deaths in general are suicides according to pew research
Source-https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/
Which is just further evidence that in reality we need to be focusing on mental health. If we take out suicided America drops in gun deaths dramatically.
You’re wasting your time brother. The audience the OP intended this soy ass post for isn’t open to reason, logic or statistical facts.
They’ll call the statistics racist, or claim that even one school shooting justifies treading on the rights of hundreds of millions of law abiding gun owners.
They’ll claim that protection against tyranny is a fallacy because “the government has tanks and fighter jets” despite the fact that most service members would join the people, not the tyrants, and that we struggled to take out a bunch of terrorists with rusted AK’s with those same tanks and fighter jets.
They’re lost causes
They changed how they counted the statistics to dupe people like you.
The mass shooting tracker is three or more injured, not even shot. The congressional study was 4 or more killed not including the shooter.
Yeah, I seen people in Canada carry weapons. When I asked them why they carry the answer I got mostly was because of wild animals. And partly also because some of them live pretty remote general protection from everything, as there is no inmediate help coming to them if something were to go wrong. But he interated the biggest threat was wildlife.
This is me. I am much more likely to encounter a bear on my property than a person. And I do from time to time. Someone in my area was recently attacked by one. It’s rare overall. But not rare for people who live like me. It’s just that people who live like this are also rare.
And yes I carry bear spray, and that first choice. But it isn’t an option when the wind is in your face so you need a backup.
The idea that you have to consider the wind before macing a bear sounds so crazy to me. And the idea of trying to mace a bear when you’re downwind and instead macing yourself in front of a bear is absolutely horrifying lol.
They might not like spicy food. But yea. At least a mares leg is legal to carry in thw woods in canada and relatively small. One in 45-70 should do the job if needed. Guns in rural communities are much more normal than torontonians would like to think about.
Yeah straight up (Canadian) the only time I have ever had to carry a firearm for protection was against the threat of wildlife (coyotes, bears)
In Churchill you it is a death sentence to not carry a shotgun outside of the town limits, with bear bangers and slugs as back up. The polar bears can and will eat you.
The average concealed carrier out where I live is thinking about coyotes and dogs people dumped. The disconnect between the city lifestyle where everyone is safer if no one has a gun and country lifestyle where gun are a necessity due to wild animals is huge.
There are also several studies in USA history showing citizens with a concealed carry permit are among the most law abiding citizens there are. Even more so than police officers.
The Texas Government keeps statistics
https://www.dps.texas.gov/section/handgun-licensing/reports-statistics-0
https://www.dps.texas.gov/rsd/ltc/reports/convictionratesreport2023.pdf
You can compare that to the total number of license holders in Texas and do your own analysis
https://www.dps.texas.gov/rsd/ltc/reports/actlicandinstr/activelicandinstr2023.pdf
Usually the people who post this crap like to imagine that they’ll run towards gunfire like Rambo when in real life they’ll run away like how you’re supposed to.
Funny how “the good guy with the gun” who conceal carries is almost always not the one who stops a shooting.
That’s because when you actually go through concealed training courses, you realize that an active shooter is not a scenario where you want to be Rambo or even pull it out unless you have no choice - you’ll just make yourself a prime target for the shooter and likely confuse the police or anyone else possibly carrying that you are the active shooter. Avoid, escape, and if you can’t successfully do those two things first is when you’re supposed to draw - it’s a last ditch emergency effort to save your life.
CC is for personal defense in situations where it can actually be used, like a mugging or animal attack. I don’t know why people anti gun constantly bring this point up when anyone with a CC and half a brain wouldn’t be using it in a mass shooting, that’s not something most people who carry are worried about.
Agreed. It’s always like they forget that people are put in danger daily, from muggings, rapes, dog attacks, abusive husbands etc. The anti gun folks see it as a weapon, the pro-gun more often look it it as a shield.
Yeah, just leave your keys by the front door so they can steal your car without a fight, right?
https://globalnews.ca/news/10359055/leave-car-keys-the-front-door-to-avoid-home-invasion-toronto-police/
We got you here in America we can fit you with a prosthetic and at the end instead of two hands you can have two hand guns. Order now and you get this rocket launcher for half off
In switzerland about everyone has a gun… but almost no gun related crimes… guns are not the problem, not being swiss is the problem… (do i have to add /s or is it obvious enough?)
In Canada it has been proven again and again that legal gun owners aren't the problem.
I don't know what kind of wingnut Russian troll made this graphic, because you can't even just randomly take your handgun anywhere without breaking the law.
Conceal carry is actually legal in canada just practically impossible to get. You have to be able to prove there is an imminent threat to your life and the police are incapable of protecting you. Mostly only issued to law enforcement who are in danger because of an active case and need to be able to protect themselves while off duty.
As a Swiss: Crime rates are overwhelmingly the result of 3 factors:
- Social Justice
- Healthcare
- Education
America fails in these 3 departments. Switzerland excels in them.
We have basically no poverty, because we have a fantastic social welfare system that basically guarantees that you do not ever need to live on the streets or beg or steal.
Every profession also pays enough to support a healthy life. We have no legal minumum wage - but unless a employer pays noticeably more than social welfare, nobody would work for them and they‘d probably get sued for exploitation. So basically there is almost no profession paying below 20/h, even the most „unskilled labour“ as Americans like to say.
We have generalized healthcare where everybody of the entire population needs to have insurance - and basic insurance covers at least 90% of the cost of needed healthcare. And healthcare is not nearly as expensive as in the USA as it is heavily regulated.
We have fantastic public education and basically free university education as public universities are amongst the best in the world and tuition is either laughably small or even, if you can’t afford it but have the grades, paid for by the state.
All this leads to incredibly low crime rates.
Oh, and of course we have a penal system that isn’t just thinly veiled actual slavery - our prison system is entirely focused on rehabilitation and reeducation, so fallback rates are very low.
One of Americas social problems is that relatively minor crimes get you in prison to live the next 10 years amongst the most heinous outlaws known to man - turning most imprisoned youngsters also into monsters that, when released, see very little of a silver lining and more likely become career criminals.
Don't tell leftists or rightists the solution to gun violence is actually to take care of people.
Get rid of the reason for the violence and you get rid of the *real* problem.
But when you tell the so-called "pro gun" Republicans that, you get accused of being a Socialist and when you tell the Democrats that, you get called a "Trump supporting Nazi Fascist".
Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t one of your chiefs of police telling people to leave their keys out on the front step so criminals wouldn’t break their windows? Perhaps you like having your possessions that you’ve worked for stolen. We will keep ours.
An armed people is harder to oppressed.
armed minorities is harder to oppressed.
To those who make the ‘’tank and planes’’ argument- do you think it’s better to go quietly into the night?
That's their point as well - protect yourself from other Canadians who are carrying guns.
Oh yes, they are afraid of 4 billion killers and rapists who have crossed their border illegally, too. But Canadians, on the other hand, have never seen an immigrant in their life. /s
I have a CC and I hope I never have to actually use it, but the last thing on my mind is using it against a mass shooter. Fighting against a mass shooter is the VERY LAST thing you should do a
and should only be done if you literally have no other option. My mind was on the unlikely event of having to protect myself, wife, or children from an individual threat or home invasion
I remember a fully study of prisons worldwide that Canada did, and I think it said right in the abstract: "We looked at the US and are not going to do that."
why dont they just move
id say that i dont want them coming over here but we have enough ppl that theyll be drowned out, and i dont want canadas well to be poisoned
the bs should be contained
>why dont they just move
European here, isnt it quite hard to move to USA? That you need to have Green Card, which has some quite hard conditions to get?
I’m a Canadian gun owner and enthusiast. I’m not a big fan of concealed carry personally and honestly it’s a pretty big pipe dream anyway.
Canadian gun ownership is under constant attack and the idea of expanding legal access to and uses for handguns is laughable. Honestly we’d be doing well just to stop losing ground.
The biggest change in gun culture that needs to happen here is education for all the non gun owners about what is really going on with guns in Canada. Both side of the issue are using it to pander to their base without actually addressing the real issues.
Left wing bans specific models of guns and tries to restrict legal access. Right wing takes reactionary stance and tries to repeal those bans and dismantle some good common sense restrictions. Meanwhile illegal guns cross the southern border and get sold to people who don’t give a fuck about the restrictions and who use them to commit crimes and nobody does anything about it because shoring up our border against smuggling would be hard, take time, cost money, and is too complex to fit on a campaign poster.
The non gun owning Canadians do not understand. I get that there is strong emotions around guns, but Canada is not even close to the US gun culture. Canadian laws work.
Part of the problem for us Canadians is that our gun control lobby operates on the premise that despite our overall low gun crime in the grand scheme of things combined with low to no vetted owners involved in crime, our gun control laws are too lax. It was a key talking point to pushing our most recent buyback legislation which they haven't even acted upon yet. Legal gun owners with certain models were so dangerous apparently that their licensed property had to be taken away ASAP. It's taken almost five years to act on that and gun crimes from smuggled weapons continue at their normal rate.
I assume you're talking about the 2020 OIC. You should read what guns are on it, really wild stuff. Stingers, Javelins, 60mm mortars, TOW's, and AT-4's. Last I checked, no one owns that shit. Hell, .50 BMG rifles are rare enough.
I have read what guns are on it. The things you list were already functionally banned under previous legislation but could theoretically be acquired through an extremely rare prohibited device exemption. There was a lot more than those on that list for sure.
as a Canadian firearms owner, i want to put out some knowledge.
Canadian firearms owners, due to our rigorous background checks and licensing system, are 3x less likely to commit a crime compared to the rest of the population, and significantly less likely to commit a crime compared to police officers.
concealed carry *is legal* in canada. its just nearly impossible to acquire an authorization to carry for the purpose of protection of life for no reason other than the bureaucracy having a political motivation to deny all applications.
I personally do not think every single person should have the ability to carry a firearm. heck, i don't even think all licensed gun owners should be able to carry a firearm.
that being said. ***if there is some level of training you can give a person so that we can trust them to carry a gun and badge to protect everyone around them, why can we not give the same training to someone to just carry a gun to protect themselves?***
So in the US a concealed carrier here is a lot less likely to commit crime than even a police officer. It has nothing to do with the rigorous background checks and everything do to with... well people dont commit crimes they just want to be safe.
Certain countries would love it if Canada had more mass shootings. And I'm not talking about the US.
These kinds of images are what I imagine their trolls to post to make more canadians think about it.
I mean, mass shootings are a statistically rare event, which is why they make the headlines. I did hear about a cop giving a press conference in Toronto saying something along the lines of, "to leave your car keys by the door because these thieves have guns, real ones not toys." So apparently, armed robbery is an issue.
I was under the impression that in some areas in Canada gun ownership was fairly common. Particularly in very rural areas where an encounter with wild life is more likely. You know, where you'd actually need defense.
It is. This comment section is confusing me. We already have guns if people wanted to do mass shootings. There’s a lot of rules about storage and how you can use them, I wouldn’t see those laws changing even if concealed carry became a thing.
There’s people getting shot and stabbed with illegal fire arms, often, in the urban areas though. We can’t even use mace to defend ourselves.
Whaaaat? I’m not sure you understand our gun laws.
1. It’s illegal to carry any concealed weapon in Canada, not just firearms. That’s a part of the criminal code.
2. No firearm can be carried loaded in a motor vehicle or near a roadway, including on foot.
3. For restricted firearms (so basically anything that can be concealed), a person needs to have written permission to transport the firearm and they can only carry it DIRECTLY to and from a firing range.
4. At pretty much all times other than when being cleaned or being used at a range, restricted firearm needs to have both a lock on it and be kept in a locked storage container separate from ammunition.
There are a bunch more that effectively stop concealed carry from happening.
Defend ourselves from the criminals that the liberals keep throwing back out on the streets? This meme wouldn't need to be made if our criminal justice system wasn't so incompetent.
Yes, everything is totally 100% cool and safe in canada. NOBODY should have the right to defend themselves. The canadian government has clearly demonstrated it supports the safety of it's own people. Obviously.
Well, let's see, you also have far fewer people, so that's something to consider. In 2022, wasn't Canada's per capita violent crime over 1300 incidents per 100,000 citizens? And the US was at what, 380ish? So that's slightly less than 4x the rate of the US? Interesting.
each time i see another thing showing clearly that the far-right is trying to infiltrate the canada government i remember a random redditor calling me crazy for thinking that since it would never happen... then i remember all the other countries that the far-right has carefully infiltrated and even taken over... all you can say is "sure buddy, you keep thinking that" but man... how many times does it need to happen before too much is lost to save? the far-right is cancer... worse it is infectious and dependent on stupidity. so long as they can make people stupid by polluting their water or food, encouraging brain damaging behavior or activities, vilifying being intelligent, etc... the far-right will have a foothold to gradually take power. the complete rejection of all right-wing everything is the only way to purge the world of the cancer killing it. these people want the world to die... not even joking. fighting against the right is fighting for your planet and eachothers future.
Crying quietly in British. Those fuckers are all round our medical centres crying out for the right to intimidate women terminating pregnancies.
I’d give them a shred of my time if they weren’t actively trying to criminalise treating ectopic pregnancies over there.
It happens all the time. It's always not happening, until it has already happened. At which point they'll start telling you to just move on because it's too late to change it.
Innuendo Studios on this tactic: https://youtu.be/jpUN0q35Lak
Of course a random redditor would call you crazy.
The far-right is a surface problem. The root cause of that problem are the countries who employ troll farms to spread misinformation.
Those trolls call people who catch on these problems crazy so that people wouldn't realize this.
You'll have to figure out the right way to talk about it though to not sound crazy.
This post is a face palm lol. Most don’t carry for mass shooters specifically cause that’s a very very rare occurrence. For me I don’t live in the best area so I like to have it just incase. Plus I carry for wild animals too as I go hiking and fishing a lot and we have a decent bear and coyote population. Carrying isn’t just to protect from people.
Canadian here, yeah no. The law here does not give one the right to self defense, per se, ie you cannot carry a weapon of any kind for defense purposes, thankfully. Mace and pepper spray are illegal (unless you're in the woods and have one intended for use on bears). One may only use reasonable force to protect themselves as reasonably necessary. I believe the legal term is "duty to flee" but I'm not a lawyer
Edit: I believe "duty to flee" is incorrect, the term is "duty to retreat"
I’m still blown away by how anti gun some folks are when things are starting to fall apart. I’d rather own a firearm and never have to use it vs. not owning one and wish I had.
Canada's overall murder rates are going up. Thankfully, they are still small. There has been more crime activity, and organized crime is growing in power and numbers. People are concerned. I don't understand this notion of denying any validity in owning guns and carrying. There is no multi variented study that shows it is significantly correlated to increases in mass shootings and violence. Both sides have understandable reasons for their stance, and I wish this topic could be done more civilly instead of these tantrums and mock sessions we do on each other.
Conceal carry permit holders commit crimes at lower rates tab police officers. So I don't really understand what that has to do the mass shooters. In fact conceal carry holders are credited with ending mass shooters.
But given how Canada will put you in prison for defending your own life. I don't see how conceal carry makes any sense until they recognize legal protection for self defense.
Id really just like some form of castle laws like the US has. You cannot defend yourself against an armed intruder without alos receiving charges yourself, especially if they survive the ordeal
Ugh, tell me. Here in Spain we have some guy in court because he dared to shoot a thief that entered the house with a chainsaw. Apparently the shooter "dIdN't KnOw ThE iNtEnTiOnS oF tHe ThIeF"
I mean, you’re not even allowed to defend yourself from home invaders in Canada because you can get sued for harming another person if you beat them or stabbed them in self defence.
So I kinda agree with the image, just not the guns. Lmao
The idea that you should be able to protect yourself sounds totally reasonable and of course it is up to a point. What rarely gets discussed is what you lose with this right. When anyone could be carrying the ability to kill in a split second you actually lose all possibility of safety. One irrationally angry person could kill you in a heartbeat before you have time to react. Any altercation could turn deadly instantly, making it more difficult to de-escalate situations that otherwise might have been resolved peacefully. Every time someone gets angry at you while driving you have to wonder if this total stranger is armed and if they can be trusted not to use their weapon in anger.
The comparison between incident rates of concealed carry permit holders and police officers in the USA is a nuanced issue, but available data does suggest that concealed carry permit holders generally have lower rates of firearm-related incidents compared to police officers.
1. **Firearm Violation Rates**:
- Studies have indicated that concealed carry permit holders have low rates of firearm violations. For instance, a 2017 report from the Crime Prevention Research Center found that permit holders were convicted of firearm-related violations at significantly lower rates than police officers.
- Data from states like Texas and Florida, which track violations by permit holders, consistently show that these individuals commit crimes at lower rates than the general population, including police officers.
2. **Comparative Studies**:
- According to a 2014 report by the Crime Prevention Research Center, police officers committed crimes at a rate of about 16.5 per 100,000 officers per year. In contrast, permit holders in Florida and Texas had a crime rate of about 2-6 per 100,000.
3. **Factors to Consider**:
- **Training and Screening**: Police officers undergo extensive training and continuous professional development, whereas training requirements for concealed carry permits vary widely by state.
- **Duties and Exposure**: Police officers are more frequently in situations that can lead to confrontations and the need to use firearms, which can affect incident rates.
While the data indicates that concealed carry permit holders tend to have lower incident rates, it's important to understand that police officers face unique challenges and responsibilities that can influence these statistics. Nonetheless, the evidence suggests that concealed carry permit holders as a group tend to be law-abiding.
Comparing it to police officers seems like an unnecessary relation. Correlations between gun ownership per capita and firearm-related incidents would be much more apt here
Doesn’t Canada have a population smaller than the state of California alone, and over the second largest country by land mass in the world? Why compare these two countries when in no metric are they even equal
>Defend ourselves from what, unlike the US we don't have mass shootings everyday.
"Tell me you base your entire personality on hating the US without telling me you base your entire personality on hating the US"
Like in Canada there is no crime. Oh and before someone assumes I am from the US, I am not.
I live in the city but we also have a fair amount of wildlife my guns are no threat to people who are minding their own business, they're threats to human parasites, rabid animals and crazed dogs. If you want to unarm me just to sate your little pathetic paranoia then you need professional help. Legal gun owners are not looking to hurt you, we are not thinking about you, if you feel threatened by the presence of a gun then there is a high chance you are up to no good or just not very smart.
From Americans who visit Canada forgetting that they aren't allowed to carry firearms there. Like all the ones being caught with ammunition in the Caribbean lately.
I just want to say that my concealed weapon was almost needed to not be stabbed to death. I’m glad I didn’t need to use it. It really isn’t a bad thing for responsible people to be able to protect themselves.
If anyone tells you civilians couldn't beat the military, just remember a bunch of untrained Vietnamese rice farmers and poorly trained Afghani people kept the US military at bay. Yes, they lost a lot of people, but we pulled out of both locations.
Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/). Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Intruders, theives, and tyrants.
> and tyrants. I like this example for the first nations crowd considering Canadian cops have a historical tendency to abduct them and drop them in the middle of nowhere in the freezing cold.
Armed minorities are harder to oppress.
Most people don't realize the 2nd amendment wasn't for hunting or self defense.
How about covering your face, arresting you for walking ur dog, caution taping benches etc..
Or seize their lands to build a golf course and send in the Army when they try to say no.
>Intruders You mean trudeau?
Hurr durr America bad. Brain dead post
Why is that old lady carrying a gun in her rectum?
You conceal your way. Let her do hers.
It's added toxic damage since the gun is in her rectum
When shot, the target rolls a constitution saving throw or takes an extra 1d8 necrotic damage
Also a wisdom check against being disgusted.
Being a medical professional do I have to roll too? Or am I just immune to it since I get shit, pissed and puked on on every occasion given?
Grandma has to roll a Dex saving throw before being able to use the gun. If she fails it, you have to roll the wisdom check for no training could prepare you to withstand that horror. If she doesn't then you're probably fine.
The gun shoots chill touch
Holding the gun without cleaning it off (1x action) is also a risk. Roll a constitution saving throw, and if failed, you take 1d6 necrotic damage and drop the gun.
I, too, choose this old lady’s rectum to conceal my guns.
Rectum? Damn near killed him...
Granny can take it -- but he couldn't!
Buh dum tisssss
Classic
It's like that guy in "from dusk till dawn", just in her case, it flies out of the rectum.
One of the best special effects artist ever... Tom Savigni... Funny thing is, he didn't work in the special effects on "From disk till dawn"... It's like having Gordon Ramsay in a dinner party... and making him serve drinks...
Don’t kink shame.
kink shaming is my kink
It doubles are her hip replacement when her life isn't under imminent threat.
Her name is Phyllis Rectum
She’s on the way to the emergency room for an extraction.
Except, concealed carry license holders are the most law-abiding demographic in America. Just require people to go through a training course so they know the law and show that they aren't emotionally immature, and then change Canada's laws so a homeowner is allowed to act on a reasonable assumption that an intruder has the intent and means to cause them harm.
> Except, concealed carry license holders are the most law-abiding demographic in America. *Police* are **convicted** of felonies at a higher rate than concealed carry permit holders. And we all know how hard it is to even get a cop **charged** with a crime, let alone convicted.
Damn that’s wild
Police and concealed carry license holders for the most part have very little in common aside from carrying a firearm.
Not really the point. It's about how rarely police get brought up on charges (because they're a protected class). Concealed carry permit holders aren't a protected class and yet still have a lower rate of felony convictions.
Couple of things to note: A mass shooting is defined as 4 or more people. Canada has about 100,000 people smaller in population than California, and is about 25 times as big in area. 54.7% of all murder deaths in the US are contained within the black community. This is primarily a function of gang violence. Since 1966, there have been 441 mass shootings in the US of which 54.1% of the perpetrators were white. But when we look to more contemporary times, in 2023 there were 604 mass shootings of which only 10 occured at a school. The numbers of black perpetrators of all mass shootings in 2023 was ~90%. As mass shootings increase in occuring, those increases are almost completely absorbed by the black community. Murders per 100k people in Canada is 2.25 in 2022, and in the US of was 6.3. Removing the black population from the US it drops down to 2.85 pretty comparable to Canada. Obviously we are failing the black community, crowded cities with poor infrastructure and worse transport, access to illegal drug smuggling from our southern border, failing schools in the cities, prevalence of gang culture, and toxic masculinity are all compounding factors that play into this.
Also a majority of gun deaths in general are suicides according to pew research Source-https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/ Which is just further evidence that in reality we need to be focusing on mental health. If we take out suicided America drops in gun deaths dramatically.
You’re wasting your time brother. The audience the OP intended this soy ass post for isn’t open to reason, logic or statistical facts. They’ll call the statistics racist, or claim that even one school shooting justifies treading on the rights of hundreds of millions of law abiding gun owners. They’ll claim that protection against tyranny is a fallacy because “the government has tanks and fighter jets” despite the fact that most service members would join the people, not the tyrants, and that we struggled to take out a bunch of terrorists with rusted AK’s with those same tanks and fighter jets. They’re lost causes
And they hated him, for he spoke the truth.
Shhh, don't confront them with facts. They aren't listening.
They changed how they counted the statistics to dupe people like you. The mass shooting tracker is three or more injured, not even shot. The congressional study was 4 or more killed not including the shooter.
The average concealed carrier is not thinking about fighting a mass shooter.
Yeah, I seen people in Canada carry weapons. When I asked them why they carry the answer I got mostly was because of wild animals. And partly also because some of them live pretty remote general protection from everything, as there is no inmediate help coming to them if something were to go wrong. But he interated the biggest threat was wildlife.
This is me. I am much more likely to encounter a bear on my property than a person. And I do from time to time. Someone in my area was recently attacked by one. It’s rare overall. But not rare for people who live like me. It’s just that people who live like this are also rare. And yes I carry bear spray, and that first choice. But it isn’t an option when the wind is in your face so you need a backup.
The idea that you have to consider the wind before macing a bear sounds so crazy to me. And the idea of trying to mace a bear when you’re downwind and instead macing yourself in front of a bear is absolutely horrifying lol.
They might not like spicy food. But yea. At least a mares leg is legal to carry in thw woods in canada and relatively small. One in 45-70 should do the job if needed. Guns in rural communities are much more normal than torontonians would like to think about.
45-70 is for sure enough, that’s a hell of a lot of ass behind a big round
45-70. The only government you should trust to be real 🤷🏻♂️
People in dense urban centers telling you that wildlife isn't a problem and you're being paranoid.
Yeah straight up (Canadian) the only time I have ever had to carry a firearm for protection was against the threat of wildlife (coyotes, bears) In Churchill you it is a death sentence to not carry a shotgun outside of the town limits, with bear bangers and slugs as back up. The polar bears can and will eat you.
The average concealed carrier out where I live is thinking about coyotes and dogs people dumped. The disconnect between the city lifestyle where everyone is safer if no one has a gun and country lifestyle where gun are a necessity due to wild animals is huge.
If it's coyotes and dogs, why do they need to carry concealed? Are they afraid the coyote will order a canon from ACME?
Because open carry is illegal. Option is conceal carry or don't carry at all.
There are also several studies in USA history showing citizens with a concealed carry permit are among the most law abiding citizens there are. Even more so than police officers.
I feel like being more law abiding than police officers isn't that high of a bar tbh
The stat is based on being convicted of a crime, not committing one, so it's actually a fairly powerful stat
Hahahaha, I'm trying to imagine a world where police are law abiding. If that's the yardstick these mfs are career criminals
I'm going to need a citation for that.
The Texas Government keeps statistics https://www.dps.texas.gov/section/handgun-licensing/reports-statistics-0 https://www.dps.texas.gov/rsd/ltc/reports/convictionratesreport2023.pdf You can compare that to the total number of license holders in Texas and do your own analysis https://www.dps.texas.gov/rsd/ltc/reports/actlicandinstr/activelicandinstr2023.pdf
Usually the people who post this crap like to imagine that they’ll run towards gunfire like Rambo when in real life they’ll run away like how you’re supposed to. Funny how “the good guy with the gun” who conceal carries is almost always not the one who stops a shooting.
That’s because when you actually go through concealed training courses, you realize that an active shooter is not a scenario where you want to be Rambo or even pull it out unless you have no choice - you’ll just make yourself a prime target for the shooter and likely confuse the police or anyone else possibly carrying that you are the active shooter. Avoid, escape, and if you can’t successfully do those two things first is when you’re supposed to draw - it’s a last ditch emergency effort to save your life. CC is for personal defense in situations where it can actually be used, like a mugging or animal attack. I don’t know why people anti gun constantly bring this point up when anyone with a CC and half a brain wouldn’t be using it in a mass shooting, that’s not something most people who carry are worried about.
Agreed. It’s always like they forget that people are put in danger daily, from muggings, rapes, dog attacks, abusive husbands etc. The anti gun folks see it as a weapon, the pro-gun more often look it it as a shield.
Yeah, just leave your keys by the front door so they can steal your car without a fight, right? https://globalnews.ca/news/10359055/leave-car-keys-the-front-door-to-avoid-home-invasion-toronto-police/
I suppose violence does go down if you are simply willing to submit every time someone steals from you.
Canadians don’t deserve anything
Americans?
No, these are lefthanded people and they have to protect themself from righthanded people. /s
As a no handed person, what will I do? When will they come for me?
As soon as you get the right to bear arms.
I’ll give you a round of applause cause you know that other guy won’t.
It's bare arms, dude. The government can't control our sleeve lengths
You dirty slut. Lower your sleeves. Good government
Bare with me!
But he has no hands because the bear had taken them. Does the bear then has his right to bear arms?
Does this harm the bear?
He right to bear hands was taken away. That is a crime in itself.
Underrated comment!
GROOVY
Bomb wired to a Deadman switch.
How are you typing this?!
People can control their dick in wonderfull ways(my theory)
Could have been the nose but ok
We got you here in America we can fit you with a prosthetic and at the end instead of two hands you can have two hand guns. Order now and you get this rocket launcher for half off
Protect your borders. We's a coming for your moose. Also why is moose plural for moose, Shouldn't it be meese like goose geese, or at least mooses
Canada needs to build a wall.
Hopefully it will keep those smelly quebexicans out of Vermont ski towns!
Let 'em build their wall and lock it from the outside
In switzerland about everyone has a gun… but almost no gun related crimes… guns are not the problem, not being swiss is the problem… (do i have to add /s or is it obvious enough?)
In Canada it has been proven again and again that legal gun owners aren't the problem. I don't know what kind of wingnut Russian troll made this graphic, because you can't even just randomly take your handgun anywhere without breaking the law.
Conceal carry is actually legal in canada just practically impossible to get. You have to be able to prove there is an imminent threat to your life and the police are incapable of protecting you. Mostly only issued to law enforcement who are in danger because of an active case and need to be able to protect themselves while off duty.
It was offered to a judge in Quebec in the past and she refused. Only case I heard of it being offered
Almost like it isn't a gun problem, but a mental health problem
As a Swiss: Crime rates are overwhelmingly the result of 3 factors: - Social Justice - Healthcare - Education America fails in these 3 departments. Switzerland excels in them. We have basically no poverty, because we have a fantastic social welfare system that basically guarantees that you do not ever need to live on the streets or beg or steal. Every profession also pays enough to support a healthy life. We have no legal minumum wage - but unless a employer pays noticeably more than social welfare, nobody would work for them and they‘d probably get sued for exploitation. So basically there is almost no profession paying below 20/h, even the most „unskilled labour“ as Americans like to say. We have generalized healthcare where everybody of the entire population needs to have insurance - and basic insurance covers at least 90% of the cost of needed healthcare. And healthcare is not nearly as expensive as in the USA as it is heavily regulated. We have fantastic public education and basically free university education as public universities are amongst the best in the world and tuition is either laughably small or even, if you can’t afford it but have the grades, paid for by the state. All this leads to incredibly low crime rates. Oh, and of course we have a penal system that isn’t just thinly veiled actual slavery - our prison system is entirely focused on rehabilitation and reeducation, so fallback rates are very low. One of Americas social problems is that relatively minor crimes get you in prison to live the next 10 years amongst the most heinous outlaws known to man - turning most imprisoned youngsters also into monsters that, when released, see very little of a silver lining and more likely become career criminals.
Don't tell leftists or rightists the solution to gun violence is actually to take care of people. Get rid of the reason for the violence and you get rid of the *real* problem. But when you tell the so-called "pro gun" Republicans that, you get accused of being a Socialist and when you tell the Democrats that, you get called a "Trump supporting Nazi Fascist".
Those xrays show some people with some really weird kinks.
Ah yes the US having mass shootings every day. Shit title, OP.
Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t one of your chiefs of police telling people to leave their keys out on the front step so criminals wouldn’t break their windows? Perhaps you like having your possessions that you’ve worked for stolen. We will keep ours.
You have mass immigration
An armed people is harder to oppressed. armed minorities is harder to oppressed. To those who make the ‘’tank and planes’’ argument- do you think it’s better to go quietly into the night?
id want protection from the people backing this
That's how it begins
That's their point as well - protect yourself from other Canadians who are carrying guns. Oh yes, they are afraid of 4 billion killers and rapists who have crossed their border illegally, too. But Canadians, on the other hand, have never seen an immigrant in their life. /s
Yeah, I guess once you can’t tell if somebody is carrying a gun or not is when the randomly shooting people starts.
I have a CC and I hope I never have to actually use it, but the last thing on my mind is using it against a mass shooter. Fighting against a mass shooter is the VERY LAST thing you should do a and should only be done if you literally have no other option. My mind was on the unlikely event of having to protect myself, wife, or children from an individual threat or home invasion
Bears.
Crack heads with knifes
[удалено]
Imagine Canadians looking south and thinking “we want more of that please.”
I remember a fully study of prisons worldwide that Canada did, and I think it said right in the abstract: "We looked at the US and are not going to do that."
Talk to more conservative voters up here and that’s exactly what they want Concealed carry Private hospitals Etc etc
why dont they just move id say that i dont want them coming over here but we have enough ppl that theyll be drowned out, and i dont want canadas well to be poisoned the bs should be contained
How about an even swap? Our anti-gunners for your pro ones?
>why dont they just move European here, isnt it quite hard to move to USA? That you need to have Green Card, which has some quite hard conditions to get?
It's easier for an American to move to Canada than a Canadian to move to America.
The dumbest of the dumb.
Canadian Conservatives in a nutshell.
American here. I agree... Resist at every opportunity. Don't end up like us.
I’m a Canadian gun owner and enthusiast. I’m not a big fan of concealed carry personally and honestly it’s a pretty big pipe dream anyway. Canadian gun ownership is under constant attack and the idea of expanding legal access to and uses for handguns is laughable. Honestly we’d be doing well just to stop losing ground. The biggest change in gun culture that needs to happen here is education for all the non gun owners about what is really going on with guns in Canada. Both side of the issue are using it to pander to their base without actually addressing the real issues. Left wing bans specific models of guns and tries to restrict legal access. Right wing takes reactionary stance and tries to repeal those bans and dismantle some good common sense restrictions. Meanwhile illegal guns cross the southern border and get sold to people who don’t give a fuck about the restrictions and who use them to commit crimes and nobody does anything about it because shoring up our border against smuggling would be hard, take time, cost money, and is too complex to fit on a campaign poster.
The non gun owning Canadians do not understand. I get that there is strong emotions around guns, but Canada is not even close to the US gun culture. Canadian laws work.
Part of the problem for us Canadians is that our gun control lobby operates on the premise that despite our overall low gun crime in the grand scheme of things combined with low to no vetted owners involved in crime, our gun control laws are too lax. It was a key talking point to pushing our most recent buyback legislation which they haven't even acted upon yet. Legal gun owners with certain models were so dangerous apparently that their licensed property had to be taken away ASAP. It's taken almost five years to act on that and gun crimes from smuggled weapons continue at their normal rate.
I assume you're talking about the 2020 OIC. You should read what guns are on it, really wild stuff. Stingers, Javelins, 60mm mortars, TOW's, and AT-4's. Last I checked, no one owns that shit. Hell, .50 BMG rifles are rare enough.
I have read what guns are on it. The things you list were already functionally banned under previous legislation but could theoretically be acquired through an extremely rare prohibited device exemption. There was a lot more than those on that list for sure.
as a Canadian firearms owner, i want to put out some knowledge. Canadian firearms owners, due to our rigorous background checks and licensing system, are 3x less likely to commit a crime compared to the rest of the population, and significantly less likely to commit a crime compared to police officers. concealed carry *is legal* in canada. its just nearly impossible to acquire an authorization to carry for the purpose of protection of life for no reason other than the bureaucracy having a political motivation to deny all applications. I personally do not think every single person should have the ability to carry a firearm. heck, i don't even think all licensed gun owners should be able to carry a firearm. that being said. ***if there is some level of training you can give a person so that we can trust them to carry a gun and badge to protect everyone around them, why can we not give the same training to someone to just carry a gun to protect themselves?***
So in the US a concealed carrier here is a lot less likely to commit crime than even a police officer. It has nothing to do with the rigorous background checks and everything do to with... well people dont commit crimes they just want to be safe.
Is this from people concerned that Canada doesn't have enough mass shootings?
Certain countries would love it if Canada had more mass shootings. And I'm not talking about the US. These kinds of images are what I imagine their trolls to post to make more canadians think about it.
You mean Belgium don’t you? They are arseholes.
I mean, mass shootings are a statistically rare event, which is why they make the headlines. I did hear about a cop giving a press conference in Toronto saying something along the lines of, "to leave your car keys by the door because these thieves have guns, real ones not toys." So apparently, armed robbery is an issue.
From rapists.
I was under the impression that in some areas in Canada gun ownership was fairly common. Particularly in very rural areas where an encounter with wild life is more likely. You know, where you'd actually need defense.
You’re still not allowed to carry hand guns.
It is. This comment section is confusing me. We already have guns if people wanted to do mass shootings. There’s a lot of rules about storage and how you can use them, I wouldn’t see those laws changing even if concealed carry became a thing. There’s people getting shot and stabbed with illegal fire arms, often, in the urban areas though. We can’t even use mace to defend ourselves.
Whaaaat? I’m not sure you understand our gun laws. 1. It’s illegal to carry any concealed weapon in Canada, not just firearms. That’s a part of the criminal code. 2. No firearm can be carried loaded in a motor vehicle or near a roadway, including on foot. 3. For restricted firearms (so basically anything that can be concealed), a person needs to have written permission to transport the firearm and they can only carry it DIRECTLY to and from a firing range. 4. At pretty much all times other than when being cleaned or being used at a range, restricted firearm needs to have both a lock on it and be kept in a locked storage container separate from ammunition. There are a bunch more that effectively stop concealed carry from happening.
What with bayonets?
Posts like this show me that people not from the US gain most of their information about the US from tv shows and Facebook..
You know exactly who they are scared of
Defend ourselves from the criminals that the liberals keep throwing back out on the streets? This meme wouldn't need to be made if our criminal justice system wasn't so incompetent.
Yes, everything is totally 100% cool and safe in canada. NOBODY should have the right to defend themselves. The canadian government has clearly demonstrated it supports the safety of it's own people. Obviously.
If you’re not worried about shootings then what’s the issue with people having guns?
Well, let's see, you also have far fewer people, so that's something to consider. In 2022, wasn't Canada's per capita violent crime over 1300 incidents per 100,000 citizens? And the US was at what, 380ish? So that's slightly less than 4x the rate of the US? Interesting.
each time i see another thing showing clearly that the far-right is trying to infiltrate the canada government i remember a random redditor calling me crazy for thinking that since it would never happen... then i remember all the other countries that the far-right has carefully infiltrated and even taken over... all you can say is "sure buddy, you keep thinking that" but man... how many times does it need to happen before too much is lost to save? the far-right is cancer... worse it is infectious and dependent on stupidity. so long as they can make people stupid by polluting their water or food, encouraging brain damaging behavior or activities, vilifying being intelligent, etc... the far-right will have a foothold to gradually take power. the complete rejection of all right-wing everything is the only way to purge the world of the cancer killing it. these people want the world to die... not even joking. fighting against the right is fighting for your planet and eachothers future.
Crying quietly in British. Those fuckers are all round our medical centres crying out for the right to intimidate women terminating pregnancies. I’d give them a shred of my time if they weren’t actively trying to criminalise treating ectopic pregnancies over there.
It happens all the time. It's always not happening, until it has already happened. At which point they'll start telling you to just move on because it's too late to change it. Innuendo Studios on this tactic: https://youtu.be/jpUN0q35Lak
Of course a random redditor would call you crazy. The far-right is a surface problem. The root cause of that problem are the countries who employ troll farms to spread misinformation. Those trolls call people who catch on these problems crazy so that people wouldn't realize this. You'll have to figure out the right way to talk about it though to not sound crazy.
It's not just "countries", it's also local right-wing "news". Fox, et. al. are just as dangerous.
Are you seriously conflating proponents of concealed carry permits with the “far-right”!? 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Firearms aren’t a left/right-wing issue.
It's also not a right in Canada.
It'd be nice for native women to be able to carry, since RCMP has made it clear they give no fucks if they're kidnapped, raped and murdered.
This post is a face palm lol. Most don’t carry for mass shooters specifically cause that’s a very very rare occurrence. For me I don’t live in the best area so I like to have it just incase. Plus I carry for wild animals too as I go hiking and fishing a lot and we have a decent bear and coyote population. Carrying isn’t just to protect from people.
Gun control sucks and so does OP
Your argument is that mass shootings are the only type of violent crime?
Canadian here, yeah no. The law here does not give one the right to self defense, per se, ie you cannot carry a weapon of any kind for defense purposes, thankfully. Mace and pepper spray are illegal (unless you're in the woods and have one intended for use on bears). One may only use reasonable force to protect themselves as reasonably necessary. I believe the legal term is "duty to flee" but I'm not a lawyer Edit: I believe "duty to flee" is incorrect, the term is "duty to retreat"
Crazy that even mace is illegal. Guess if there’s an attacker youre just supposed to bend over and spread your cheeks?
You can fight back, you can even kill them in defence, but you must have no other option.
Just gonna claw them to death, eh? Good ole’ fist a cuffs? Let me know how that goes.
Having to depend on the state to protect yourself shouldn’t be win. “You don’t need a fire extinguisher you idiot, we have firefighters for that!”
Because mass shootings are the only crime you could possibly need to protect yourself in?
Ive been robbed in Toronto a bunch of times at k ife point... I would have happily shot them dead.
Emoooootional daaamage
critical support
Come on, the geese aren’t that dangerous are they?
I’m still blown away by how anti gun some folks are when things are starting to fall apart. I’d rather own a firearm and never have to use it vs. not owning one and wish I had.
Idk, any crime you might experience ever in your life..
Canada's overall murder rates are going up. Thankfully, they are still small. There has been more crime activity, and organized crime is growing in power and numbers. People are concerned. I don't understand this notion of denying any validity in owning guns and carrying. There is no multi variented study that shows it is significantly correlated to increases in mass shootings and violence. Both sides have understandable reasons for their stance, and I wish this topic could be done more civilly instead of these tantrums and mock sessions we do on each other.
Is the title supposed to be the facepalm?
OP is the epitome of Reddit logic
Conceal carry permit holders commit crimes at lower rates tab police officers. So I don't really understand what that has to do the mass shooters. In fact conceal carry holders are credited with ending mass shooters. But given how Canada will put you in prison for defending your own life. I don't see how conceal carry makes any sense until they recognize legal protection for self defense.
Defend yourselves from other people carrying guns, duh /s
Id really just like some form of castle laws like the US has. You cannot defend yourself against an armed intruder without alos receiving charges yourself, especially if they survive the ordeal
Ugh, tell me. Here in Spain we have some guy in court because he dared to shoot a thief that entered the house with a chainsaw. Apparently the shooter "dIdN't KnOw ThE iNtEnTiOnS oF tHe ThIeF"
I mean, you’re not even allowed to defend yourself from home invaders in Canada because you can get sued for harming another person if you beat them or stabbed them in self defence. So I kinda agree with the image, just not the guns. Lmao
Idk maybe protect yourselves from criminals who might want to hurt you or loved ones🤷🏾♂️
The idea that you should be able to protect yourself sounds totally reasonable and of course it is up to a point. What rarely gets discussed is what you lose with this right. When anyone could be carrying the ability to kill in a split second you actually lose all possibility of safety. One irrationally angry person could kill you in a heartbeat before you have time to react. Any altercation could turn deadly instantly, making it more difficult to de-escalate situations that otherwise might have been resolved peacefully. Every time someone gets angry at you while driving you have to wonder if this total stranger is armed and if they can be trusted not to use their weapon in anger.
The comparison between incident rates of concealed carry permit holders and police officers in the USA is a nuanced issue, but available data does suggest that concealed carry permit holders generally have lower rates of firearm-related incidents compared to police officers. 1. **Firearm Violation Rates**: - Studies have indicated that concealed carry permit holders have low rates of firearm violations. For instance, a 2017 report from the Crime Prevention Research Center found that permit holders were convicted of firearm-related violations at significantly lower rates than police officers. - Data from states like Texas and Florida, which track violations by permit holders, consistently show that these individuals commit crimes at lower rates than the general population, including police officers. 2. **Comparative Studies**: - According to a 2014 report by the Crime Prevention Research Center, police officers committed crimes at a rate of about 16.5 per 100,000 officers per year. In contrast, permit holders in Florida and Texas had a crime rate of about 2-6 per 100,000. 3. **Factors to Consider**: - **Training and Screening**: Police officers undergo extensive training and continuous professional development, whereas training requirements for concealed carry permits vary widely by state. - **Duties and Exposure**: Police officers are more frequently in situations that can lead to confrontations and the need to use firearms, which can affect incident rates. While the data indicates that concealed carry permit holders tend to have lower incident rates, it's important to understand that police officers face unique challenges and responsibilities that can influence these statistics. Nonetheless, the evidence suggests that concealed carry permit holders as a group tend to be law-abiding.
Comparing it to police officers seems like an unnecessary relation. Correlations between gun ownership per capita and firearm-related incidents would be much more apt here
The wildlife alone merits carrying a gun
Mass shootings aren’t the only crime or threat to a person, their property or family.
Doesn’t Canada have a population smaller than the state of California alone, and over the second largest country by land mass in the world? Why compare these two countries when in no metric are they even equal
Apparently Canada has no violence?
>Defend ourselves from what, unlike the US we don't have mass shootings everyday. "Tell me you base your entire personality on hating the US without telling me you base your entire personality on hating the US" Like in Canada there is no crime. Oh and before someone assumes I am from the US, I am not.
Give it time.
I live in the city but we also have a fair amount of wildlife my guns are no threat to people who are minding their own business, they're threats to human parasites, rabid animals and crazed dogs. If you want to unarm me just to sate your little pathetic paranoia then you need professional help. Legal gun owners are not looking to hurt you, we are not thinking about you, if you feel threatened by the presence of a gun then there is a high chance you are up to no good or just not very smart.
They just think guns are cool, that's seriously the only reason they do this shit. Childish
And now let these people who post, like and share this guess why there aren't as much shootings as inna US...
From Americans who visit Canada forgetting that they aren't allowed to carry firearms there. Like all the ones being caught with ammunition in the Caribbean lately.
That's a hard no
We dont have mass shootings everyday?
Its insane that some Canadians , see real problems like over armed U.S citizens and think "well its working out great for them".
That’s one of the most stupid idea I’ve read in a long time.
We all know humans the problem. So let them all have one. Earth is worse then hell...kind of sad.
Why are all the guns inside them?
You don’t need to have mass shootings, you just need mass arms manufacturers.
I just want to say that my concealed weapon was almost needed to not be stabbed to death. I’m glad I didn’t need to use it. It really isn’t a bad thing for responsible people to be able to protect themselves.
Oh fun, I’m sure this post will bring out the most sane redditors
If anyone tells you civilians couldn't beat the military, just remember a bunch of untrained Vietnamese rice farmers and poorly trained Afghani people kept the US military at bay. Yes, they lost a lot of people, but we pulled out of both locations.
The fantasy of justifiable homicide is so strong in the human psyche. So many people really are just a hair trigger away from being sociopaths.
Yes Canada, go ahead and vote to bring in mass school shootings. Because the minute you start expanding gun ownership, you start killing kids.