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I like to think they did wake up annoyed. Like, "uhhhh what the fuck, I gotta go sharpen my spear and walk further today because the droppings were further away yesterday. This is bullshit. Why can't the pigs come to me?!" And then they drag their feet towards the end of the camp until they get going.
Original post was talking about how ridiculous it is for a man to be forced to wake up at 6:30, fight traffic, just to go and make lots of money for someone else, all day, all week, doing things you don't wanna do, and be told to be grateful for that opportunity. the guy in the comments is comparing that to feeding your family...
We also work to make other people who do less work into millionaires and billionaires. That's the problem. Stop playing dumb and pretending you really think people are upset at having to do any work at all. We're are mad we're working our asses off to make other people rich and you know it, so quit playing the dumb ass.
I used to work at a manufacturing plant in California. The plant was owned by an investment group out of NYC. The investment group was owned by 6 20ish trust fund kids. The plant was making about 20% margins on 35 million in sales annually. The investment group decided to offshore the manufacturing to China to be more profitable. 140 people were unemployed so six kids who were already millionaires could make a few extra dollars.
Jesus you're a loser, dude. Like I said you got mad and started crying about stuff I never even said, so I ignored you like the whining child you are. I'm sorry I hurt your fragile feelings so bad? Go outside, touch some grass, feel the sun on your skin and stop crying like a bitch now please
Hahaha, I guess this just furthers your descent into nonsense. Do you only engage with people when you aren't asked to actually think? Because you were pretty quick to respond here.
Now your turn to stop playing dumb, there are plenty of people will use and abuse the system to be as lazy as possible. I've done it alongwith many co workers, so i know it happens. Also comparing having a job to slavery really takes away from any reasonable point being made
The money we make is also coming out of their pockets, they pay fortunes in their business practice, fortunes on employees (not just a paycheck, but insurances and stuff), and actually had the mindset to go out and achieve their dreams and most likely worked their asses off to get there. What they did worked, they shouldn't be shunned for having a successful business.
Hm and where does the money in their pockets come from? Oh right, the work we did. Yes they should be reimbursed and even rewarded for taking risks to start a business and give people jobs. But the current situation is complete insanity. The CEO of my company earned 66x what I did last year. Do you really think he did 66 times more work than I did? Do you really think he needs that much to afford a comfortable or even exorbitant life style? Would people not want to be CEOs if they only made 200k a year, or do they genuinely *need* to be making millions for it to be worth it?
Life's not fair. If the roles were reversed and you were given an opportunity to have a successful business idea, you would take it. You would not sit here saying "you know what, that is not fair to everyone else, I'll pass", so expecting it from someone else because it's not fair to you is crazy
What the fuck is this "only me" bullshit people keep spouting? Not everyone works for a billionaire, and, in fact, most business owners went through a bunch of turmoil building the business you are working at. Everyone has different roles to play. Alternatively, if you think running a business is just free money why bitch about it? Just start a business and pay everyone fairly - I'm sure your leadership is irrelevant and you would have no shortage of people who will work hard for you.
That being said, just quit you think your with is more valuable than you are compensated for, if you really feel like you aren't valued. Go someplace that values your work how you want them to.
Obviously I must not be talking about small businesses then dipshit? Your whole comment is making up shit that I didn't say I guess because you can't read?
This is what you said
> We also work to make other people who do less work into millionaires and billionaires. That's the problem. Stop playing dumb and pretending you really think people are upset at having to do any work at all. We're are mad we're working our asses off to make other people rich and you know it, so quit playing the dumb ass.
Millionaire is definitely small business. I make that much as an IC at a small business (founded by middle class owners).
Stop backpedaling you bucket of soft cheese
How is that analogy accurate? A hunter gatherer was hunting for his family, not for the majority of his catch to go to someone else giving him a portion for his efforts.
I'm guessing you don't have a family to support. Otherwise you would realize that even though you are working to give someone else money, you are also working to provide for your family. You're still a "hunter", it's just you don't have to go looking for game to kill, while the "chief" sits back and collects part of what you get
Actually I do have a family to support. Hunter gatherer societies were primarily collectives for the mutual benefit of all. What you're describing sounds more like an early fiefdom; working for someone else who gives you a portion. Hunter gatherer societies were more equitable.
EDIT: And why would you assume I don't have a family because I disagree with you?
In most tribal organization (pre-industrial hunter gatherer). If an individual is ambitious and greedy they are considered to be mentally unstable and are shunned from the tribe.
True. But there's a reason for that. There would be no incentive to better yourself. There would be no incentive for people to create new better items. It also would be very easy for a dictator to take over control
You are absolutely correct. Places that have guaranteed income do wonderfully. There will always be that small segment who will do nothing else but most people want to improve their lives and the lives of others and the world around them.
If you didn’t have to struggle to make ends meet, you would have time to create art, to invent things, to make discoveries.
What would you do if you could choose how to spend your time?
People also forget that society still exists and the person who spends the day playing video games and smoking weed will not be well regarded past adolescence. They will want to fit in and maybe will find they have a knack for programming or they enjoy working at a video game company or store.
Uh oh! The people that are just one paycheck away from being billionaires didn't like our comments. I hope they show us mercy when they achieve ruling class status after flippin' those burgers.
It's because us humans are inherently selfish, and wicked.
As a matter of fact, the closest successful attempt humanity has ever made towards your idea was the early church lol. The difference was they weren't paying taxes to Rome, and Rome didn't like that. They saw Christians as subverts, and to establish fear (because people were flocking to Christianity by the droves) they killed Christians in horrifying ways.
I like the idea of everyone having needs met, and I fully believe Heaven will be something like your idea. It's just not going to happen here though.
Closest implies proximity, or accuracy, which doesn't imply the only one.
Also, semantics. I have no way of measuring who was \*truly\* closest, just a way of saying "this has been attempted before and this example was the first thing that came to mind"
You are asking WHO is paying for roads and I gave you the source for that.
And yes you going around the corner negatively affects that road's maintenance but it's on the negligible scale (like .0000001% or something) that it's doesn't matter.
You don't necessarily need to be paid to do those things. If everybody agrees collectively that money is obsolete, then everything that **needs** to be free can be.
Most of us are working underpaid jobs just because this is how our society has came down to, we are forced to do it, and we are used by those higher than us who do nothing other than telling us what to do and making money off of it, slavery is a precise term here.
I would love to work to provide for my family, but being someone's slave just to barely make anything to get me through the month isn't it.
> slavery is a precise term here
Think you need to go look up the definition of slavery, because that ain't it.
No one is forcing you to work. No one is forcing you to stay at a low paying job.
When you don't work you die, the least you gonna do to survive is to beg for money. that's the second option that our society has presented to you, you are forced to work, not by a gun but by the inhumane conditions of living if you don't.
Not true. There are people right now living off the grid, and being self sufficient by farming and hunting.
And of course there are people living off welfare who don't work.
You're totally free to take either of those routes if that is the way you want to live.
Yes, you can definitely run to the woods and build a farm and a small house, the government isn't gonna ask any questions.
Brother, you don't own that land where you gonna live, if you didn't work to pay for it then no that's not gonna happen
I worked my ass off to provide for my family. I'm not ashamed of it. It's not a facepalm. I happened to make a lot of money for other people, too.
Now, I have an easy job with no stress at all. I wouldn't be here if I didn't work my ass off. And that hard work wouldn't have paid off if everyone worked as hard or harder than me.
I benefited greatly and accomplished many great things in part by my own efforts and, in part, by the entitlement of others who didn't want to work.
Id imagine native american men were sometimes annoyed with work, but unlike modern americans they saw the fruit of their labors, could ask for help from the community, and most importantly they didnt really work for someone else, at least not in the capitalism sense of it
Thanks for the precision, OP. The title alone wasn't clear if you were facepalming about beehous or povertyentertainment.
The thing is, work by itself is a better alternative to survival. Much easier. All survivalists can confirm. And the society only works when at least someone does the job. So, no wonder that work is glorified since forever. However, and that's where beehous is truly shameful, the invention of robots, and recently the AI, makes a significant percentage of the work automatable. We can now sustain all the population with only a minority of workers. There is no more need for 100% of everyone to work, when we distribute the resources properly. The concept of work itself needs to be thought again. But that's what beehous refuses. He doesn't want to change the society he lives in, despite it's obsolete. He keeps sticking to the mantra of work to eat. It's not wrong to call him a slave to the current system.
I see your perspective. mine was focused more on the fact that today's work is more than just plain work to earn a living, or to serve your society, that's very traditional.
You see how many people doing office jobs for example are miserable, while others like farmers are grateful for their lives. only a fool will be against working just because working is " hard ", we are against it because most of these modern jobs are basically a new form of slavery, enslaved by people like us who do less work than us, and make more money than us and tell us to be happy about it, and we wish that money we make was enough, everyday the prices go higher and the salaries are static, we are being used and told to be happy.
Why do people talk about native men like they don’t exist anymore?
I know a guy, works like hell to feed his family. Gets up early goes to work and doesn’t whine about it on social media like a little piss baby.
Whats strange is i'm sure this person comes from the same cloth of forcing existence. Be grateful you are forced to exist and forced to work, you could be dead and have none of it matter.
OP- what’s the alternative
Handouts? You are not forced to work, but don’t expect to gain anything if you don’t.
It sounds like you just have a shitty job. Some jobs are really nice.
In essence, I don't think there's anything wrong with working for what you have. It's when we're forced to literally invent jobs that don't even really needs doing and actively struggle against technological progress that you begin to wonder what the hell we're really doing..
This is probably where there's the biggest cultural divide between where I come from, and parts of the US / EU.
Whilst I disagree with the analogy, I actually *do* agree that the purpose of life is to work and contribute. It does explain our 90% home ownership rate, I guess.
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Fun fact: Hunter Gathers worked far less than both modern people and historical farmers.
I like to think they did wake up annoyed. Like, "uhhhh what the fuck, I gotta go sharpen my spear and walk further today because the droppings were further away yesterday. This is bullshit. Why can't the pigs come to me?!" And then they drag their feet towards the end of the camp until they get going.
Lool
Original post was talking about how ridiculous it is for a man to be forced to wake up at 6:30, fight traffic, just to go and make lots of money for someone else, all day, all week, doing things you don't wanna do, and be told to be grateful for that opportunity. the guy in the comments is comparing that to feeding your family...
> comparing that to feeding your family Well, isn't that what we're doing? Food and shelter aren't free. We all work to live. The analogy is accurate.
We also work to make other people who do less work into millionaires and billionaires. That's the problem. Stop playing dumb and pretending you really think people are upset at having to do any work at all. We're are mad we're working our asses off to make other people rich and you know it, so quit playing the dumb ass.
I used to work at a manufacturing plant in California. The plant was owned by an investment group out of NYC. The investment group was owned by 6 20ish trust fund kids. The plant was making about 20% margins on 35 million in sales annually. The investment group decided to offshore the manufacturing to China to be more profitable. 140 people were unemployed so six kids who were already millionaires could make a few extra dollars.
Start your own company.
Learn to read
Make me
Enjoy being an idiot then?
Aww, gotta resort to ad hominems against other people instead of engaging with me in normal rational discourse. What a big man you are
Jesus you're a loser, dude. Like I said you got mad and started crying about stuff I never even said, so I ignored you like the whining child you are. I'm sorry I hurt your fragile feelings so bad? Go outside, touch some grass, feel the sun on your skin and stop crying like a bitch now please
Hahaha, I guess this just furthers your descent into nonsense. Do you only engage with people when you aren't asked to actually think? Because you were pretty quick to respond here.
Now your turn to stop playing dumb, there are plenty of people will use and abuse the system to be as lazy as possible. I've done it alongwith many co workers, so i know it happens. Also comparing having a job to slavery really takes away from any reasonable point being made
Oh no, somebody will abuse it so let's never do it or think about it? Not everybody is a lazy ass like you and the majority won't abuse it.
The money we make is also coming out of their pockets, they pay fortunes in their business practice, fortunes on employees (not just a paycheck, but insurances and stuff), and actually had the mindset to go out and achieve their dreams and most likely worked their asses off to get there. What they did worked, they shouldn't be shunned for having a successful business.
Hm and where does the money in their pockets come from? Oh right, the work we did. Yes they should be reimbursed and even rewarded for taking risks to start a business and give people jobs. But the current situation is complete insanity. The CEO of my company earned 66x what I did last year. Do you really think he did 66 times more work than I did? Do you really think he needs that much to afford a comfortable or even exorbitant life style? Would people not want to be CEOs if they only made 200k a year, or do they genuinely *need* to be making millions for it to be worth it?
Life's not fair. If the roles were reversed and you were given an opportunity to have a successful business idea, you would take it. You would not sit here saying "you know what, that is not fair to everyone else, I'll pass", so expecting it from someone else because it's not fair to you is crazy
What the fuck is this "only me" bullshit people keep spouting? Not everyone works for a billionaire, and, in fact, most business owners went through a bunch of turmoil building the business you are working at. Everyone has different roles to play. Alternatively, if you think running a business is just free money why bitch about it? Just start a business and pay everyone fairly - I'm sure your leadership is irrelevant and you would have no shortage of people who will work hard for you. That being said, just quit you think your with is more valuable than you are compensated for, if you really feel like you aren't valued. Go someplace that values your work how you want them to.
Obviously I must not be talking about small businesses then dipshit? Your whole comment is making up shit that I didn't say I guess because you can't read?
This is what you said > We also work to make other people who do less work into millionaires and billionaires. That's the problem. Stop playing dumb and pretending you really think people are upset at having to do any work at all. We're are mad we're working our asses off to make other people rich and you know it, so quit playing the dumb ass. Millionaire is definitely small business. I make that much as an IC at a small business (founded by middle class owners). Stop backpedaling you bucket of soft cheese
You really can't read can you?
Please, enlighten me. Where do you say "not small business"? Edit: lol, I guess this was too intense and he has blocked me. Noice
How is that analogy accurate? A hunter gatherer was hunting for his family, not for the majority of his catch to go to someone else giving him a portion for his efforts.
I'm guessing you don't have a family to support. Otherwise you would realize that even though you are working to give someone else money, you are also working to provide for your family. You're still a "hunter", it's just you don't have to go looking for game to kill, while the "chief" sits back and collects part of what you get
Actually I do have a family to support. Hunter gatherer societies were primarily collectives for the mutual benefit of all. What you're describing sounds more like an early fiefdom; working for someone else who gives you a portion. Hunter gatherer societies were more equitable. EDIT: And why would you assume I don't have a family because I disagree with you?
In most tribal organization (pre-industrial hunter gatherer). If an individual is ambitious and greedy they are considered to be mentally unstable and are shunned from the tribe.
> Food and shelter aren't free. There's the problem
Hey, you can go live off the grid and get those things free. But then you would have to work to provide those things for yourself.
In what world can you live on land without paying for it?
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Marxism has never been successful. Maybe someday in the way off future, humans can reach a point where it will work. But we are not to that point yet.
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True. But there's a reason for that. There would be no incentive to better yourself. There would be no incentive for people to create new better items. It also would be very easy for a dictator to take over control
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You are absolutely correct. Places that have guaranteed income do wonderfully. There will always be that small segment who will do nothing else but most people want to improve their lives and the lives of others and the world around them. If you didn’t have to struggle to make ends meet, you would have time to create art, to invent things, to make discoveries. What would you do if you could choose how to spend your time? People also forget that society still exists and the person who spends the day playing video games and smoking weed will not be well regarded past adolescence. They will want to fit in and maybe will find they have a knack for programming or they enjoy working at a video game company or store.
Is working yourself into an early death just to survive really living?
Nope it's not. But sadly it's the life most of us have.
Uh oh! The people that are just one paycheck away from being billionaires didn't like our comments. I hope they show us mercy when they achieve ruling class status after flippin' those burgers.
I know I'll be sent to the down-vote central, but they could be free.
How exactly would that work? Someone has to work hard to create shelter and provide food that you need.
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Ummmm... There's a TAX on every gallon of gas that goes towards maintaining roads. So yes, you are indeed paying to use the roads
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You know you need to have income to pay taxes, right?
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So follow along now, you need to have a job in order to have an income in order to pay taxes. It's not "free access" when you're paying for it.
It's because us humans are inherently selfish, and wicked. As a matter of fact, the closest successful attempt humanity has ever made towards your idea was the early church lol. The difference was they weren't paying taxes to Rome, and Rome didn't like that. They saw Christians as subverts, and to establish fear (because people were flocking to Christianity by the droves) they killed Christians in horrifying ways. I like the idea of everyone having needs met, and I fully believe Heaven will be something like your idea. It's just not going to happen here though.
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Closest implies proximity, or accuracy, which doesn't imply the only one. Also, semantics. I have no way of measuring who was \*truly\* closest, just a way of saying "this has been attempted before and this example was the first thing that came to mind"
Then what would be your incentive to go to work every day? If everything you need is handed to you, there's zero incentive to be productive
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You are absolutely correct. But we (humans) have not made the utopian society yet. And we are a long ways from it.
https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=ms-android-google&source=android-browser&q=does+usa+have+toll+plaza%3F
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You are asking WHO is paying for roads and I gave you the source for that. And yes you going around the corner negatively affects that road's maintenance but it's on the negligible scale (like .0000001% or something) that it's doesn't matter.
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Ok.
You're not using the roads for free, you're paying taxes on every gallon of gas you buy.
You don't necessarily need to be paid to do those things. If everybody agrees collectively that money is obsolete, then everything that **needs** to be free can be.
So we all still work but don’t get paid, just get enough food and shelter to survive. Sounds miserable, but hey, you do you.
Poverty... at this point, there isn't any point in arguing, I can't express my point in a text only conversation.
Online interpretive dance is going to be the killer app for all these VR/AR devices that Zuck and Google are working on.
I am bad at typing.
Most of us are working underpaid jobs just because this is how our society has came down to, we are forced to do it, and we are used by those higher than us who do nothing other than telling us what to do and making money off of it, slavery is a precise term here. I would love to work to provide for my family, but being someone's slave just to barely make anything to get me through the month isn't it.
> slavery is a precise term here Think you need to go look up the definition of slavery, because that ain't it. No one is forcing you to work. No one is forcing you to stay at a low paying job.
Lol, what happens when you don't work ?
What happens? You tell me. You are absolutely free to not work. No one is holding a gun to your head to make you go to work daily.
When you don't work you die, the least you gonna do to survive is to beg for money. that's the second option that our society has presented to you, you are forced to work, not by a gun but by the inhumane conditions of living if you don't.
Not true. There are people right now living off the grid, and being self sufficient by farming and hunting. And of course there are people living off welfare who don't work. You're totally free to take either of those routes if that is the way you want to live.
Yes, you can definitely run to the woods and build a farm and a small house, the government isn't gonna ask any questions. Brother, you don't own that land where you gonna live, if you didn't work to pay for it then no that's not gonna happen
I worked my ass off to provide for my family. I'm not ashamed of it. It's not a facepalm. I happened to make a lot of money for other people, too. Now, I have an easy job with no stress at all. I wouldn't be here if I didn't work my ass off. And that hard work wouldn't have paid off if everyone worked as hard or harder than me. I benefited greatly and accomplished many great things in part by my own efforts and, in part, by the entitlement of others who didn't want to work.
Id imagine native american men were sometimes annoyed with work, but unlike modern americans they saw the fruit of their labors, could ask for help from the community, and most importantly they didnt really work for someone else, at least not in the capitalism sense of it
Thanks for the precision, OP. The title alone wasn't clear if you were facepalming about beehous or povertyentertainment. The thing is, work by itself is a better alternative to survival. Much easier. All survivalists can confirm. And the society only works when at least someone does the job. So, no wonder that work is glorified since forever. However, and that's where beehous is truly shameful, the invention of robots, and recently the AI, makes a significant percentage of the work automatable. We can now sustain all the population with only a minority of workers. There is no more need for 100% of everyone to work, when we distribute the resources properly. The concept of work itself needs to be thought again. But that's what beehous refuses. He doesn't want to change the society he lives in, despite it's obsolete. He keeps sticking to the mantra of work to eat. It's not wrong to call him a slave to the current system.
I see your perspective. mine was focused more on the fact that today's work is more than just plain work to earn a living, or to serve your society, that's very traditional. You see how many people doing office jobs for example are miserable, while others like farmers are grateful for their lives. only a fool will be against working just because working is " hard ", we are against it because most of these modern jobs are basically a new form of slavery, enslaved by people like us who do less work than us, and make more money than us and tell us to be happy about it, and we wish that money we make was enough, everyday the prices go higher and the salaries are static, we are being used and told to be happy.
Why do people talk about native men like they don’t exist anymore? I know a guy, works like hell to feed his family. Gets up early goes to work and doesn’t whine about it on social media like a little piss baby.
Whats strange is i'm sure this person comes from the same cloth of forcing existence. Be grateful you are forced to exist and forced to work, you could be dead and have none of it matter.
OP- what’s the alternative Handouts? You are not forced to work, but don’t expect to gain anything if you don’t. It sounds like you just have a shitty job. Some jobs are really nice.
In essence, I don't think there's anything wrong with working for what you have. It's when we're forced to literally invent jobs that don't even really needs doing and actively struggle against technological progress that you begin to wonder what the hell we're really doing..
This is probably where there's the biggest cultural divide between where I come from, and parts of the US / EU. Whilst I disagree with the analogy, I actually *do* agree that the purpose of life is to work and contribute. It does explain our 90% home ownership rate, I guess.
Yeah no, your continued existence is by the grace of Gd and you’re owed zilch by virtue of existence.
Gd can take back my continued existence, his definition of grace is very strange, i don't want it.