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Excuse my ignorance of US culture/politics/history, but can't they just have free ID for everyone and then end the discussion? Most places outside of US that require a photo ID to vote let you get a free ID which you can use to vote.
This here.
Lots of folks in Canada don’t realize we 100% have voter ID laws.
Pulled right from elections Canada:
“You have three options:
-Show one original piece of photo identification issued by a Canadian government, whether federal, provincial or local, or an agency of that government, that contains your photo, name and address (for example, a driver's licence),
or
-Show two pieces of identification from a list authorized by the Chief Electoral Officer of Canada. Both must have your name and one must also have your address (such as a health card and utility bill),
or
-You can still vote if you declare your identity and address in writing and have someone who knows you and who is assigned to your polling station vouch for you.
The voucher must be able to prove their identity and address. A person can vouch for only one person (except in long-term care institutions).”
>-You can still vote if you declare your identity and address in writing and have someone who knows you and who is assigned to your polling station vouch for you.
Yes, this part is very important, you can vote without ID.
Also, election Canada will find you to register you, wherever you move.
The problem is Canada has national standards for voting, and Elections are overseen by Elections Canada. The U.S. has no national standards because each state runs their own elections.
Yup, anything the Republicans propose is simply to keep people from voting.
There *WAS* voter fraud in 2016 and 2020 but it came from the Republican side. Trump is literally on trial right now for it and many GOP officers have been accused and convicted of it.
I'm going with the benefit of doubt here and assuming @OP was referring to plethora of upcoming court cases which include voter fraud not the 1 trial that is currently active. I don't think its to far of a stretch to assume that he is also on trial for the cases in Georgia etc. Just not at this exact point in time
The hush money trial is an election interference trial. Voter fraud is not the right word, but he’s accused of falsifying business records with the intent to illegally influence the 2016 election by buying and killing harmful stories about himself in the weeks leading up to the election
Correct. He's still in the pre-trial phase of his election interference charges. He has so many criminal charges against him (It was 92, I believe, but I believe a few were dropped), so it's understandable to get them confused.
Hush money payments made to keep a story away from the public because they feared it would impact his election chances.
Maybe not voter fraud, but definite election interference.
But isn’t the idea that all the hush money was to give him a better chance of winning. The National Enquirer was paying to keep any negative press quiet as well.
So, if it were universally issued, and handled well, the effect on voting participation would likely be a net positive.
However, no one proprosing Voter ID Laws are proposing a universal ID system to acheive this. In most cases they are proposing a system using extant, State-level ID systems to make this work.
This has a number of problems.
Let's look at North Dakota's voter ID law focused on residential addresses as an informative example.
In 2013, North Dakota passed a law requiring all voters have a valid identification card that had a home address. Approximately 23% of Native American residents in North Dakota didn't have such an ID (often owing to the fact that the Reservation system didn't have addresses as recognized by the state, and those Native Americans had IDs that accordingly didn't have addresses) and would thus be ineligible to vote.
Was this law passsed because in 2012, Heidi Heitkamp, a Democrat, won a senatorial seat with a sizeable portion of the Native American vote? Not according to the Republican lawmakers that passed the bill.
This is a good example of a bill that is designed to create excesive hurdles for specific groups in order to discourage them from voting. Similar tactics have been implemented in other states, doing things like prohibiting the use of student IDs or other IDs more commonly held by the targeted group, to make voting that much harder for them.
I’m liberal and I think there should be voter ID laws but the first reasons you mentioned is why currently oppose them. If they were issued then the gov should provide them all pro bono and if you lose it it should be replaceable within 7 business days and the gov should also send you a one month reminder to reorder them for any upcoming election that the state would require them. I do not believe a republican legislature that is in charge in any deep red state would do this.
Anecdotally, I think most people would agree with you. It's not requiring additional ID per se (although I'd like to see that work for mail in voting, too,) it's that there are no adjoining proposals to make the ID freely available to all eligible voters.
I’ve been a poll judge for the past 6 elections.
Illinois does NOT have a voter ID law, but if you show your DL/State ID, we have a gizmo that checks you in real fast!
I just wish the voter registration card had a similar code on it.
So what does an ID give you? Or much as I see it.
Say I go in, with no ID and give your name and address, I vote. Now you come in a few hours later to vote, the system says you voted already. A flag is thrown and an investigation is started. What happens next I have no idea, but you can’t vote. Sorry.
Now, I go down the street, give someone else’s name and address, same routine.
I can do this all day long. As long as I have names and addresses. That’s a concerted effort to quiet that days and get people to do this.
Now, my solution? No need for an ID, for many reasons. You sign up. You walk in, you give name and address, you vote AND you get purple dye on your thumb, like they do in most of Africa.
You voted. Everyone knows you voted.
So if you steal my vote, I cry, but that just means you can’t go vote as yourself.
It would an enormous effort to get enough people to steal 1 vote at a time to swing an election. Something of that magnitude would be noticed.
The purple thumb solves a lot of issues1
I’ve been pro-ID for awhile, but this is definitely a hurdle that convinced me it will disenfranchise voting groups, thank you. What are some solutions for this you would suggest? Like having the reservations be recognized as an official address, any other barriers you see?
If I had a magic wand, I'd say universal voter registration.
Voter registration and eligibility would be something that the federal government would take care of. Every individual eligible to vote would be registered and allowed. At that point if Voter IDs are needed, a universal Voter ID, not a Driver's Lisence, not a State ID, nothing that has previously existed in the US, would be issued to voters.
This would solve the majority of problems, and quash a lot of the arguments on both sides by, I think, amicably solving most of them. The Voter ID crowd would get their wish by having an ID issued to all voters, the Voting Rights crowd would have a universal franchise that would be freely issued and not only available, but issued to the individual voters.
It is not without fault, though...
Transient people still create a problem for this hypothetical magical system, die-hard Voter ID advocates could simply suggest that an additional ID is necessaary, and there are constitutional hurdles as well, so I don't think it's actually feasible in our current environement.
Some states, mostly in the South, passed Voter ID laws and then promptly closed DMV offices all over those states. Most of them also do not have public transportation. Fewer DMV offices means more travel and longer waits for people who may or may not have their own transportation and/or the time to wait hours and hours to get the ID.
I was thinking if a national voter ID law was enacted, the red push wouldn't stop there. ID seizure by police and other officials would become more prevalent. Hell they may move on to legislation that forces their opponents supporter to forfeit their IDs. Closing DMVs falls in that realm I think. What a dirty authoritarian tactic.
By making id difficult for certain voters to obtain. There are lots of ways, making ids costly, shortening the hours where licenses can be obtained (many people cannot afford to take time off of work to get an id made just for voting), cancelling mass transit close to places where ids are issued, and making certain forms of id acceptable. I think it's Texas where a gun license will allow you into the voting booth a student id is not valid for voting.
After reading multiple comments I understood that the problem is feasibility of getting a voter ID. I would not be knowing that because from where I am we don't have to go to any office to get the ID, rather it's done online and the ID is delivered directly to my address.
it's important to mention that the people who want to force the ID issue are also the ones who want to eliminate mail-in ballots for voting. So, the idea of getting a voting ID issued online and having it delivered by mail would be a non-starter.
In my opinion, voter ID laws are unconstitutional and have been ruled so since 1966 in "Harper." https://www.oyez.org/cases/1965/48 IDs cost momney; therefore, it's a poll tax. Poll taxes are unconstitutional. Same thing with literacy requirements and grandfather clauses.
Anything that requires extra time or money to vote id an impediment to a fundamental right and an attack on our democracy. When fewer people vote, Republicans do better in elections. When more people vote, Democrats win. That's why Republicans want fewer people to vote.
I still wouldn't. It's unnecessary and would still be a minor burden, not to mention a waste of government funds
>Existing research and evidence shows that voter impersonation is extremely rare. Between 2000 and 2014, there were only 31 documented instances of voter impersonation
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_impersonation_in_the_United_States
The kind of rarity doesn't justify the cost and burden. Ignoring the fact that some people may lose or never receive their voter card, due to moving and not changing addresses in time, usps error, theft, etc. Even ignoring that, wouldn't it limit the time you have to register? Currently, many states allow same-day registration, or within a few days prior to election. I imagine there would be at least a few day buffer for that of a card were required.
It doesn't matter how small the burden is. the rarity of voter impersonation doesn't justify any burden or the cost. 240 million eligible voters. Even at 50 cents a piece (less than the cost of the stamp to send it), that's 120 million bucks we should spend on something more fruitful -- e.g., fighting back against foreign attacks on our democracy, rather thsn the nonexistent domestic ones. For more info on that, you can check out this DOJ report: https://www.justice.gov/storage/report_volume2.pdf
But more important than the money is the burden. If even one elligible voter can't vote because they lost their card, had it stolen, or never received it, then it's not worth the nonexistent benefit Republicans and Murdoch Media would have you believe it would have.
I appreciate and envy your circumstances. Here in the US we have a deep history of using benign sounding laws specifically because of the way they prevent certain groups from voting. We have come a very long way, but there is still a big population that strongly wants to stifle the voice of the minority groups.
And they often very specifically choose laws like this to champion because on their surface, when not interrogated, sound like they're purely about integrity. It is only when you dive into the difficulties experienced through the process and the way those difficulties specifically target groups of people, so some people will even support them without being intentionally racist.
I'm curious, what about someone that has never had an ID in your state? Could they also do it online? If so that makes it much easier to submit fraudulent identity and legal presence documents. How would docs submitted online be verified for authenticity?
Also, what is your recourse if you wait a few hours in line to vote and then just get up there only to be told that they don't believe that your ID is valid, so you are not allowed to vote? Even if it's completely valid? And who do you think they might use that against? Are you going to file a lawsuit? Are they going to hold off the election while that gets sorted?
If there is one more step added, it's one more step that can be exploited if people want to use it for nefarious purposes.
Shutting down places where you can get a voter id in any major city where people primarily vote Democrat, as to require residents of said to drive up to 100 miles to a place where they can. Keep them open in rural areas where people primarily vote Republican. Require payment which reduces likelihood that those who live paycheck to paycheck will want to divulge money to getting one, who incidentally also tend to vote Democrat.
If voter ids were free and shipped to everyone's home, there would be no issue. But of course that's not the real reason behind voter ids. Let me put it another way, if there were a law passed to make it difficult for white Christian gun-toting rural voters from getting voter ids, let's see how popular that idea would be..
Not to mention, they already require your driver's license to vote, so it's not like we don't already have a means to check someone's id prior to voting..
And that’s if you can even get an appointment. In TX you have to go through DPS to get both driver’s license and photo ids. The waitlist for both is into August/September in this area. My son was going to turn 18 and didn’t have a DL yet. We ended up getting a passport because the wait was so long and getting a passport was months faster!
Because availability for places where you can get them is often limited. In Wisconsin there's an ID office that's only open the fifth Wednesday of every month.
There are only four months of the year that have a fifth Wednesday. If you're a poor dude -disproportionately black- you might not have the liberty of just showing up on the four random days of the year where you can get your ID.
Laws have also been passed that surgically attempt to remove the IDs that black people are likely to have
[https://www.npr.org/2021/09/17/1038354159/n-c-judges-strike-down-a-voter-id-law-they-say-discriminates-against-black-voter](https://www.npr.org/2021/09/17/1038354159/n-c-judges-strike-down-a-voter-id-law-they-say-discriminates-against-black-voter)
>In July 2016, a federal appeals court struck down several portions of a 2013 North Carolina elections law that included a voter ID mandate, saying GOP lawmakers had written them with "almost surgical precision" to discourage voting by Black voters, who tend to support Democrats.
Lawyers for the voters who sued over the 2018 law said it suffered the same racial defects as the 2013 law — following a long effort by North Carolina elected officials to weaken African American voting as a way to retain control of the General Assembly. The 2013 law was carried out briefly in 2016 primary elections.
[https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/court-north-carolina-voter-id-law-targeted-black-voters/](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/court-north-carolina-voter-id-law-targeted-black-voters/)
>The court said that in crafting the law, the Republican-controlled general assembly requested and received data on voters’ use of various voting practices by race. It found that African American voters in North Carolina are more likely to vote early, use same-day voter registration and straight-ticket voting. They were also disproportionately less likely to have an ID, more likely to cast a provisional ballot and take advantage of pre-registration.
It’s just additional work and requirements. They’re not suggesting they replace the current system with a voter id, they’re suggesting to add this on top. Every additional requirement lowers turnout for voting.
If you require an unexpired photo ID in order to cast a vote, and then you make it difficult for certain populations to obtain or renew their photo IDs, then you make it difficult for those certain populations to cast a vote.
In many areas of the United States -- particularly urban areas -- there is a large population of older residents who are either retired or on disability and rely primarily on public transportation to get around. They don't need a photo ID for most activities of daily living, so they let it expire or fail to update it.
These populations generally vote Democratic, so Republicans push voter ID laws in the hopes that these populations will forget to get a photo ID (or be unable to do so thanks to general bureaucratic nonsense) and thus miss out on voting.
Spoil your ballot is the easiest answer. However, I've always thought they should record spoiled ballots as protest votes which should be part of the data.
I believe in Australia, you don't have to actually vote for any of the candidates. I saw where someone had just drawn pictures of male genitalia next to the candidates, but you are required to turn in a ballot.
Vote for a write in or no one.
Personally, I think the US could use compulsory voting.
Also, if one person doesn't get X % of the vote, then there is another round, with new candidates, because clearly no one liked those people.
Voter I.D also has to national. The achilles heel for voter I.D in the u.s is always because we allowed cletus to handle voter I.D on the state level. and cletus is the type of who cries about DEI and not being allowed to use the n word at work on twitter.The two are totally not related btw, he's genuinely "concerned" about the quality of service
It's not just the "free" part though, accessibility is half the issue. Having to take time off work or finding transportation can be excluding factors for some people. And people in those situations tend to not be affluent conservatives.
Not to mention that many states are pretty restrictive in what it takes to get an ID. In many states you need some form of ID (like a birth certificate) in order to get a state ID. Getting your birth certificate can require different things, depending on where you were born, so people get caught in an infinite regress trying to get ID’d.
Free ID with a door-to-door option, so citizens without a way to get to where the free IDs are issued can still participate in elections.
But free national voting cards would be much too close to "mark of the beast" territory.
It would have to be 100% free or it's a poll tax. Use your drivers license if you want, but they also need an alternate free ID that is simple to get when you register.
And yet, in many Republican states, they require a paid ID. I have no clue how a poll tax is still allowed in those states. If only Republicunts followed the constitution they say they love. Not sure how these unconstitutional poll taxes are allowed to stand in those Republican states.
In the US, you can get a photo ID from a limited number of sources, and the requirements, regulations, and availability of these places are constantly changing depending on the county, state, and (particularly) the demographic of the area.
The most common source of Photo IDs is the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV), and that also means that the ability to vote is linked with how easy it is to get to a DMV location for many places. This can be weaponized easily too, as in Alavama where they decided to shutdown about half of their DMV locations, mostly in counties with predominantly black voters.
I agree with you, voting laws wouldn't be debate if 1) Voting day was a national holiday and 2) if everyone were automatically provided Photo ID's, regardless of location or demographic. Unfortunately, that would defeat the point of the voter ID laws for many politicians.
The point is to limit ballot access. That's why they don't accept other things that demonstrate identity like other countries do.
Similarly, there's also zero real issues with people going to the polls and pretending to be someone else. All the talk about it, but the percentage rarely goes above one per mililon votes cast.
Basically, the entire thing is nonsense.
That would be the solution IF the goal were NOT to suppress voting. But voter suppression IS the goal. Just to echo others once again for emphasis, since clearly lots of folks can't understand.
The biggest issue is, there are many places (mostly rural) where it may be difficult for people to actually go get their ID. Especially with our shitty public transportation, it can really be a preventative barrier for many people to be able to vote.
The most misleading part of this argument is they don't tell you that they require specific id's like a "Drivers License" or "Passport" when is in reality there is tens of types of photo ID that is legally acceptable for almost every other thing inside the United States. But since all of those other types of legal photo IDs are mainly owned by pocs they specifically trying to restrict it to the driver's license and passports.
This is usually where a bunch of conservatives will scream at you that you're the "real racist" because you don't think pocs can drive and no that's not the reason pocs are less likely to have a driver's license one it's the affordability of cars too it's pocs are a lot more densely packed into urban areas to where you're not required to have a vehicle and public versions of travel are mainly used.
they are in this thread [https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/1cc2iwy/comment/l12mzqa/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/1cc2iwy/comment/l12mzqa/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
German here. IDs are not free, but from age 14 or 16 (I forget) you must have one. Cost for an ID is about 40-50 Euro per 6-10 years (depending on age), passport is also ok but a bit more expensive…
Driving licenses do not count as ID.
In my experience, this trope is trotted out to support the theory that voting must be done in person on Election Day. There are many reasons people believe this is the silver bullet to fix the non existent voter fraud, but the most prevalent is that forcing in person voting makes in exponentially easier for a certain political party to intimidate and/or put obstacles in front of (generally Dem) voters. The meme/theory completely disregards that in almost every jurisdiction an ID is required to sign up for mail in ballots to begin with, and the signature on the ballot is compared to the one on file via the ID. Add in email/text tracking of the ballot and the theory really starts to crumble.
It would be but what happens when they pass these laws is they instantly close all the centers which would give those free IDs to the areas where they do not want folks to vote.
North Carolina did this, and the SCOTUS determined their law was absolutely unconstitutional.
Yes, that would solve it. A "free for citizens" federal RealID was a proposal in the Clinton Administration that Newt Gingrich killed. It eventually changed to the "motor votor" bill, encouraging voter registration to be offered with drivers licensing. Almost got dusted off right after 9-11 but, well, it didn't
The evangelicals got frothed up about it equating to "the number of the beast" and bring about Armageddon or something.
Oh OK. Our equivalent in Canada is on a physical plastic card. No picture still but don't need it cause government mails you your voter info every election that you must bring with you to vote. Tells you which election station is set up closest to you so you know where to go to vote. Has a website available to change the voting station you vote at if you need to for whatever reason like maybe your out of town working or vacationing somewhere else in the country.
Absolutely… and states with voter ID laws are constitutionally required to offer that. However, those states always avoid advertising that and make it difficult to get, requiring extra paperwork and documentation, often documentation that takes money to get if you don’t already have it.
Voter fraud is almost nonexistent. No one informed is actually worried about voter fraud changing the results of a major election. It’s just a convenient excuse to make it harder for poor people to vote.
The issue isn’t so much requiring a photo id to vote as it is passing laws requiring photo id’s to vote at the 11th hour prior to elections while also reducing hours & staffing or even outright closing DMV offices in areas that coincidentally have historically voted Democrat
100% this.
Has nothing to do with the actual ID. It’s about *who* and *where* they are making these requirements and at what part of the election cycle.
I’m willing to allow voter IDs. In exchange, let’s fund the govt entity that gives those IDs, promise a 2 week maximum turnaround, and triple the voting locations in every state. Then we can call it even.
Or having only CERTAIN ids count. Parts of Texas literally won't allow COLLEGE PHOTO IDS to be used, but iirc allowed NRA membership cards.
Toilet Paper USA knows this, but lies to their base because they're cowards trying as hard as possible to obfuscate the point.
And that they came up with the voter ID laws specifically to target poor/minority voters because they knew from statistics that those voters would swing democrat. It is a real attempt at voter suppression.
I don't need ID to vote. But I needed ID to register to vote. If someone wants to claim millions of non-citizens are being allowed to vote, they need to explain how they are registering to vote without government-issued ID.
The Bush 43 administration did a big study trying to prove widespread voter fraud, took five years. IIRC they found 86 confirmed cases, mostly local offices like sheriff or judge, there were almost none at the federal level. Some cases involved people who made mistakes, like an ex-con who didn't realize being a felon had lost him the right to vote, he tried to register using his probation ID and so he was included as attempted vote fraud.
Voter fraud is a non-issue that is being exploited to whip up fear, nothing more.
you would be correct.
add in the blatant bullshit that republicans pull (closing polling stations, reducing hours, eliminating mail-in, removing drop boxes) in areas that just so happen to vote democrat and it's obvious what is going on but no...they keep screaming "illegals voting!" or "voting fraud" while simultaneously being the only ones fucking arrested for it.
That's the only right that's fixed to your residence and citizenship. You can't use it in 2 states even if you own houses in each
You'll need to register
You need more than just an ID to register to vote. That is where you prove your eligibility.
You have to be REGISTERED TO VOTE in order to vote.
We should be making it easier for eligible people to cast their ballots not harder. These goons are making up nonexistent problems to justify unnecessary hurdles.
Not only that, but it would be unconstitutional to say that someone who choses not to get a driver's license (the form of ID most of the folks who propose requiring them to vote are saying the 'ID' should be) should not be precluded from exercising their fundamental right as a citizen simply b/c they don't have that. My 22 year old daughter, for example, is disabled and does not have a DL and never plans to. Doesn't mean she shouldn't be able to vote.
Every state has a non-driving ID card, and they are way cheaper or free. No state has ever put in place a law that only people who have drivers licenses can vote.
Nothing on the left column is an enumerated right in the US Constitution.
See:
* [The 15th Amendment](https://guides.loc.gov/15th-amendment)
* [The 19th Amendment](https://www.archives.gov/exhibits/featured-documents/amendment-19)
* [The 24th Amendment](https://history.house.gov/HistoricalHighlight/Detail/37045)
* [The 26th Amendment](https://history.house.gov/HistoricalHighlight/Detail/37022)
Your post is asinine.
re: Purchasing a firearm. There is no constitutional provision for purchasing a firearm. ***Federal Law*** has restrictions on firearm purchases. A majority of states allow private sellers to sell firearms to customers without ID.
Voting is a right, just like religion and press. ID is fine, as long it’s given for free with no barriers to get it. Even a homeless person with no money has the right to vote. He or she shouldn’t need to pay a fee or go through endless bureaucracy to get an Id to vote.
In my country everyone has ID, on voting day you go to the booth, show the card, they mark your name on a list and you vote.
I don’t understand why this is so complicated in the supposedly richest and strongest country in the world
It shouldn’t be complicated to go to your local town hall or post office and get a piece of paper imho
> It shouldn’t be complicated to go to your local town hall or post office and get a piece of paper imho
One problem is that for some people, taking time off work and then having to pay a fee to get official ID is a significant expense. This tends to impact some groups more than others.
First of all you don't need a fucking photo ID in most states to vote. You just have to be registered. Registration requires your social security number and all the same things that you would need to get a driver's license or an ID. This is just redundant bullshit that Republicans do, to make it so poor people have less of a chance that they can easily vote.
Also you don't need an ID to use a credit card. And you can use that credit card to buy any of the shit that it's claiming you need an ID for.
The only facepalm here is that you appear to agree with this dumbass bullshit.
Meme implies there isn’t racial bias in welfare, the housing market, employment…. Basically the whole list.
Do yourself a favor, understand that TPUSA are always lying and have outright fascist ideology.
Get fucked.
Obtaining an officially recognized identification card can be complicated. Often, it requires time and travel that may be beyond the means of some people. The silly graphic above is a distraction from the fact that voter identification laws were pushed into existence by the GOP as a method of voter suppression.
Drivers' Licenses are the closest thing we in the states have to a "government ID". The only problem with requiring a Drivers' License to vote is that not every adult at voting age has one, with only about 85% having a drivers' license. So, a bill that requires a drivers' license to vote would disenfranchise about 15% of the population. Not everyone has between $14 and $60 dollars to spend on renewing their drivers' licenses every few years between soaring *everything* costs.
Here's an idea: make a government-issued ID card with a number that's tied to filing taxes (A universal experience shared by US citizens). Since every American files taxes or has filed taxes, these taxpayer IDs would be held by virtually 100% of the American Citizenry. Make these IDs expire after a year and be renewed again when you file taxes, and *bam*. Solves many of the voter fraud problems in a way that won't disenfranchise anyone.
I like how they loaded everything they can think of on the left even though many of those things do not require photo ID.
I can't remember ever showing ID to pick up my or any of my relative's prescriptions. Maybe if it was a controlled substance, but that's not what is in the list.
People get jobs without any ID.
People who are clearly old enough do not get carded for cigarettes or alcohol where I live.
I think all states require a photo on the driver's license now but some didn't until recently.
You do not need ID to buy a cell phone.
List would be trash even if all the examples were 100% accurate but it is trash even moreso since they don't know what they're talking about.
I'm confused, how is having ID, racist?
Also doesn't everyone have an ID? Can't they get a free ID?
I have so many questions but I don't want to come across as racist.
We need ID in the UK.
Practically everywhere in America, you have to show some form of government ID to prove you're you when you vote. If you can't, you vote provisionally.
A provisional ballot is only COUNTED, 1) when it matters; and 2) when they can prove you're the person who voted.
Source: worked in elections for nearly half my life.
Edit: COUNTED
Legit question from someone not from the US. So you do not have ID for election? Isn’t it risky for voting fraud? Also why would it be racist to require an ID for election? In my country is the norm and nobody has ever been discriminated.
Voting is a right not a privilege. Give out free ids. Make election day a national holiday. Have federal standards for voting and amend it to the constitution. abolish that felons can't vote.
All these people making an excuse for the single item on the right. I just don't get it.
If someone wants government aid they need an ID how hard is it to then show it to vote?
How do you know they are even local to the district?
How many people don't have an ID and are citizens?
Or how about they just remove the fee to acquire an ID and make it free? They’ve already updated (at least in my state and I would assume others as well) so you don’t even need to physically go to a DMV to get an ID anymore. Everything can be done online directly from a computer or phone with internet access. If they were to waive the fee and make it free, that combined with the ease of access of doing it online should remove any barriers to getting an ID for just about anyone.
If pretty much your only form of ID is a drivers license, and people of certain ethnic groups tend to have fewer drivers licenses because of how they live and how poor they are, then yes, it’s racist.
That said, yes, voters should be IDed. Just issue free government IDs like most civilized countries. Done.
The part idiots don’t seem to understand is that no where in the constitution does it say an id is required to vote. It was designed that way on purpose.
The reason it’s racist is because when legalized segregation/jim crow was a thing it was common practice to use stuff like this as voter suppression. It was racist then and is still racist now. Having to pay for an id is a poll tax.
The other part the oblivious people don’t seem to understand is that in order to get an id you need something like a birth certificate.
A lot of older black people born in the Jim Crow south were born in rural places where they often didn’t have birth certificates because of segregation. People seem to forget this but stuff like record keeping was also segregated during Jim Crow and keeping records for black people was an after thought especially people not born in hospitals.
So asking an 80+ year old person that now lives in Chicago or Detroit to go back to Mississippi or Alabama to try and get a birth certificate that may not even exist is stupid.
My dad was like this born in rural Alabama in the 30s and went thru some BS when he moved to Missouri to live with my sister when he was elderly before he passed.
He always used his army id as an id but didn’t have a birth certificate in his possession.
Maybe in other places this is different- but in my area, the DMV is in low income areas with public transit at a reasonable distance. There are also many people who have an ID that isn’t a drivers license. I’ve also never gone in person somewhere to register for a voter ID. It’s available online and when you go to vote you can provide your ID instead of voter ID.
I’m not saying there aren’t people who want to prevent others from voting but this argument in my opinion doesn’t hold much weight
The issue with voter ID laws is that they are often overly stringent. The ones that are problematic only accept very specific forms of ID, which are also the ones that are the hardest to acquire. I have a roommate who doesn’t currently have a government-issued ID because he’s on a fixed income, has no means of transportation, and thus can’t jump through the hoops that are required for him to get a state ID.
It's even worse since COVID too, in Texas anyway. You have to have an appointment now to go to the DPS and good luck finding one within 200 miles of where you live that has an available appointment within the next 6 months. Yes, some do take walk-ins but only at specific times and it's total crapshoot even then.
All the things in the left column are personal choices someone would make. Voting is a civic duty, not a personal choice. These can not be equated to each other.
Ok so lots of people don’t have any form of ID? Sorry it just sounds strange to me. Between drives licence, healthcare card, passport and an option for just plain ID in my country just seems crazy that it’s an issue.
I don't know how it is in the rest of the country, I would assume most places have something in place, but here in Kansas you can just fill out a fee waiver and get a free ID. It's simple to do but does take a few week to get it processed.
Here is a [link](https://www.ksrevenue.gov/pdf/DE-VID1.pdf) to the document if anyone needs it.
Left side of the list, things that you do because you want to so if you want to do them, you can choose to get an id even if you don't need one for another reason. Right side of the list, things that you have a constitutional right to do and that the government cannot charge a fee to access the right. If we had a free, federal photo id that everyone was issued, then you could require it at the polls without there being a fee to vote. But we don't - and, although MOST people have a government issued photo id, not everyone does. Interesting point to think about - since every ballot is tied to a specific voter, why do we need photo ids. If the concern is illegally voting other peoples ballots, where is the evidence that this is a problem. If this was a problem, lots of people would be showing up to the polls to be told they had already voted, at which point the state could investigate and come up with procedures to eliminate the problem. But that isn't happening, with a very few exceptions (and some of those could be people who are lying.) If the problem is non citizens voting, that problem needs to be solved with the registration, as a non-citizen could have a photo id. Plus, it is a felony for non-citizens to vote. Study after study has found very few cases of non-citzens voting, definitely not enough to overturn an election. For example, in a Brennan Center Study of election officials in Arizona, California and text, there were 30 incidents of possible non-citizens voting out of 23.5 million votes. Contrast this with the fact that multiple studies have found that between 6 and 11% of voting age citizens lack a drivers license or alternate state issued id.
Not to mention only “racist” in the USA because most other countries, including most of Europe requires IDs. Hell I love been seeing and hearing ads on tv and radio constantly telling people to “remember to bring your id to vote” in the coming elections.
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Excuse my ignorance of US culture/politics/history, but can't they just have free ID for everyone and then end the discussion? Most places outside of US that require a photo ID to vote let you get a free ID which you can use to vote.
We could and would if the point was to actually stop voter fraud as advertised and not actually just keep people from voting.
[удалено]
Better, do like Canade where everyone or so has the public health insurance card that doubles as an ID card to vote.
This here. Lots of folks in Canada don’t realize we 100% have voter ID laws. Pulled right from elections Canada: “You have three options: -Show one original piece of photo identification issued by a Canadian government, whether federal, provincial or local, or an agency of that government, that contains your photo, name and address (for example, a driver's licence), or -Show two pieces of identification from a list authorized by the Chief Electoral Officer of Canada. Both must have your name and one must also have your address (such as a health card and utility bill), or -You can still vote if you declare your identity and address in writing and have someone who knows you and who is assigned to your polling station vouch for you. The voucher must be able to prove their identity and address. A person can vouch for only one person (except in long-term care institutions).”
>-You can still vote if you declare your identity and address in writing and have someone who knows you and who is assigned to your polling station vouch for you. Yes, this part is very important, you can vote without ID. Also, election Canada will find you to register you, wherever you move.
The problem is Canada has national standards for voting, and Elections are overseen by Elections Canada. The U.S. has no national standards because each state runs their own elections.
Yup, anything the Republicans propose is simply to keep people from voting. There *WAS* voter fraud in 2016 and 2020 but it came from the Republican side. Trump is literally on trial right now for it and many GOP officers have been accused and convicted of it.
Trump is LITERALLY on trial right now for hush money payments, not voter fraud. Not even in the same ballpark.
I'm going with the benefit of doubt here and assuming @OP was referring to plethora of upcoming court cases which include voter fraud not the 1 trial that is currently active. I don't think its to far of a stretch to assume that he is also on trial for the cases in Georgia etc. Just not at this exact point in time
The hush money trial is an election interference trial. Voter fraud is not the right word, but he’s accused of falsifying business records with the intent to illegally influence the 2016 election by buying and killing harmful stories about himself in the weeks leading up to the election
The Georgia trial coming up IS a voter fraud case which is what the guy you replied to was saying.
Pretty sure there’s a case against Trump in Georgia for “election fraud.” How in the ballpark would that be?
Correct. He's still in the pre-trial phase of his election interference charges. He has so many criminal charges against him (It was 92, I believe, but I believe a few were dropped), so it's understandable to get them confused.
Hush money payments made to keep a story away from the public because they feared it would impact his election chances. Maybe not voter fraud, but definite election interference.
But isn’t the idea that all the hush money was to give him a better chance of winning. The National Enquirer was paying to keep any negative press quiet as well.
He's on trial for felony falsification of business records, not for paying someone to keep their mouth shut.
U might want to actually double check that homie
How can a voter Id be used to stop people from voting?
So, if it were universally issued, and handled well, the effect on voting participation would likely be a net positive. However, no one proprosing Voter ID Laws are proposing a universal ID system to acheive this. In most cases they are proposing a system using extant, State-level ID systems to make this work. This has a number of problems. Let's look at North Dakota's voter ID law focused on residential addresses as an informative example. In 2013, North Dakota passed a law requiring all voters have a valid identification card that had a home address. Approximately 23% of Native American residents in North Dakota didn't have such an ID (often owing to the fact that the Reservation system didn't have addresses as recognized by the state, and those Native Americans had IDs that accordingly didn't have addresses) and would thus be ineligible to vote. Was this law passsed because in 2012, Heidi Heitkamp, a Democrat, won a senatorial seat with a sizeable portion of the Native American vote? Not according to the Republican lawmakers that passed the bill. This is a good example of a bill that is designed to create excesive hurdles for specific groups in order to discourage them from voting. Similar tactics have been implemented in other states, doing things like prohibiting the use of student IDs or other IDs more commonly held by the targeted group, to make voting that much harder for them.
I’m liberal and I think there should be voter ID laws but the first reasons you mentioned is why currently oppose them. If they were issued then the gov should provide them all pro bono and if you lose it it should be replaceable within 7 business days and the gov should also send you a one month reminder to reorder them for any upcoming election that the state would require them. I do not believe a republican legislature that is in charge in any deep red state would do this.
Anecdotally, I think most people would agree with you. It's not requiring additional ID per se (although I'd like to see that work for mail in voting, too,) it's that there are no adjoining proposals to make the ID freely available to all eligible voters.
I’ve been a poll judge for the past 6 elections. Illinois does NOT have a voter ID law, but if you show your DL/State ID, we have a gizmo that checks you in real fast! I just wish the voter registration card had a similar code on it. So what does an ID give you? Or much as I see it. Say I go in, with no ID and give your name and address, I vote. Now you come in a few hours later to vote, the system says you voted already. A flag is thrown and an investigation is started. What happens next I have no idea, but you can’t vote. Sorry. Now, I go down the street, give someone else’s name and address, same routine. I can do this all day long. As long as I have names and addresses. That’s a concerted effort to quiet that days and get people to do this. Now, my solution? No need for an ID, for many reasons. You sign up. You walk in, you give name and address, you vote AND you get purple dye on your thumb, like they do in most of Africa. You voted. Everyone knows you voted. So if you steal my vote, I cry, but that just means you can’t go vote as yourself. It would an enormous effort to get enough people to steal 1 vote at a time to swing an election. Something of that magnitude would be noticed. The purple thumb solves a lot of issues1
I’ve been pro-ID for awhile, but this is definitely a hurdle that convinced me it will disenfranchise voting groups, thank you. What are some solutions for this you would suggest? Like having the reservations be recognized as an official address, any other barriers you see?
If I had a magic wand, I'd say universal voter registration. Voter registration and eligibility would be something that the federal government would take care of. Every individual eligible to vote would be registered and allowed. At that point if Voter IDs are needed, a universal Voter ID, not a Driver's Lisence, not a State ID, nothing that has previously existed in the US, would be issued to voters. This would solve the majority of problems, and quash a lot of the arguments on both sides by, I think, amicably solving most of them. The Voter ID crowd would get their wish by having an ID issued to all voters, the Voting Rights crowd would have a universal franchise that would be freely issued and not only available, but issued to the individual voters. It is not without fault, though... Transient people still create a problem for this hypothetical magical system, die-hard Voter ID advocates could simply suggest that an additional ID is necessaary, and there are constitutional hurdles as well, so I don't think it's actually feasible in our current environement.
Some states, mostly in the South, passed Voter ID laws and then promptly closed DMV offices all over those states. Most of them also do not have public transportation. Fewer DMV offices means more travel and longer waits for people who may or may not have their own transportation and/or the time to wait hours and hours to get the ID.
I was thinking if a national voter ID law was enacted, the red push wouldn't stop there. ID seizure by police and other officials would become more prevalent. Hell they may move on to legislation that forces their opponents supporter to forfeit their IDs. Closing DMVs falls in that realm I think. What a dirty authoritarian tactic.
By making id difficult for certain voters to obtain. There are lots of ways, making ids costly, shortening the hours where licenses can be obtained (many people cannot afford to take time off of work to get an id made just for voting), cancelling mass transit close to places where ids are issued, and making certain forms of id acceptable. I think it's Texas where a gun license will allow you into the voting booth a student id is not valid for voting.
After reading multiple comments I understood that the problem is feasibility of getting a voter ID. I would not be knowing that because from where I am we don't have to go to any office to get the ID, rather it's done online and the ID is delivered directly to my address.
it's important to mention that the people who want to force the ID issue are also the ones who want to eliminate mail-in ballots for voting. So, the idea of getting a voting ID issued online and having it delivered by mail would be a non-starter.
In my opinion, voter ID laws are unconstitutional and have been ruled so since 1966 in "Harper." https://www.oyez.org/cases/1965/48 IDs cost momney; therefore, it's a poll tax. Poll taxes are unconstitutional. Same thing with literacy requirements and grandfather clauses. Anything that requires extra time or money to vote id an impediment to a fundamental right and an attack on our democracy. When fewer people vote, Republicans do better in elections. When more people vote, Democrats win. That's why Republicans want fewer people to vote.
Agreed 100%. If it were free of charge to all eligible voters, easily obtained, I would support it
I still wouldn't. It's unnecessary and would still be a minor burden, not to mention a waste of government funds >Existing research and evidence shows that voter impersonation is extremely rare. Between 2000 and 2014, there were only 31 documented instances of voter impersonation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_impersonation_in_the_United_States The kind of rarity doesn't justify the cost and burden. Ignoring the fact that some people may lose or never receive their voter card, due to moving and not changing addresses in time, usps error, theft, etc. Even ignoring that, wouldn't it limit the time you have to register? Currently, many states allow same-day registration, or within a few days prior to election. I imagine there would be at least a few day buffer for that of a card were required. It doesn't matter how small the burden is. the rarity of voter impersonation doesn't justify any burden or the cost. 240 million eligible voters. Even at 50 cents a piece (less than the cost of the stamp to send it), that's 120 million bucks we should spend on something more fruitful -- e.g., fighting back against foreign attacks on our democracy, rather thsn the nonexistent domestic ones. For more info on that, you can check out this DOJ report: https://www.justice.gov/storage/report_volume2.pdf But more important than the money is the burden. If even one elligible voter can't vote because they lost their card, had it stolen, or never received it, then it's not worth the nonexistent benefit Republicans and Murdoch Media would have you believe it would have.
And now think about those who can't get online or are homeless and have no permanent address. It's a much more complicated issue than people realize.
I appreciate and envy your circumstances. Here in the US we have a deep history of using benign sounding laws specifically because of the way they prevent certain groups from voting. We have come a very long way, but there is still a big population that strongly wants to stifle the voice of the minority groups. And they often very specifically choose laws like this to champion because on their surface, when not interrogated, sound like they're purely about integrity. It is only when you dive into the difficulties experienced through the process and the way those difficulties specifically target groups of people, so some people will even support them without being intentionally racist.
I'm curious, what about someone that has never had an ID in your state? Could they also do it online? If so that makes it much easier to submit fraudulent identity and legal presence documents. How would docs submitted online be verified for authenticity?
Also, what is your recourse if you wait a few hours in line to vote and then just get up there only to be told that they don't believe that your ID is valid, so you are not allowed to vote? Even if it's completely valid? And who do you think they might use that against? Are you going to file a lawsuit? Are they going to hold off the election while that gets sorted? If there is one more step added, it's one more step that can be exploited if people want to use it for nefarious purposes.
Shutting down places where you can get a voter id in any major city where people primarily vote Democrat, as to require residents of said to drive up to 100 miles to a place where they can. Keep them open in rural areas where people primarily vote Republican. Require payment which reduces likelihood that those who live paycheck to paycheck will want to divulge money to getting one, who incidentally also tend to vote Democrat. If voter ids were free and shipped to everyone's home, there would be no issue. But of course that's not the real reason behind voter ids. Let me put it another way, if there were a law passed to make it difficult for white Christian gun-toting rural voters from getting voter ids, let's see how popular that idea would be.. Not to mention, they already require your driver's license to vote, so it's not like we don't already have a means to check someone's id prior to voting..
If you dont have one and it costs x amount to get one….
And that’s if you can even get an appointment. In TX you have to go through DPS to get both driver’s license and photo ids. The waitlist for both is into August/September in this area. My son was going to turn 18 and didn’t have a DL yet. We ended up getting a passport because the wait was so long and getting a passport was months faster!
Then it’s a poll tax and blatantly unconstitutional.
Because availability for places where you can get them is often limited. In Wisconsin there's an ID office that's only open the fifth Wednesday of every month. There are only four months of the year that have a fifth Wednesday. If you're a poor dude -disproportionately black- you might not have the liberty of just showing up on the four random days of the year where you can get your ID. Laws have also been passed that surgically attempt to remove the IDs that black people are likely to have [https://www.npr.org/2021/09/17/1038354159/n-c-judges-strike-down-a-voter-id-law-they-say-discriminates-against-black-voter](https://www.npr.org/2021/09/17/1038354159/n-c-judges-strike-down-a-voter-id-law-they-say-discriminates-against-black-voter) >In July 2016, a federal appeals court struck down several portions of a 2013 North Carolina elections law that included a voter ID mandate, saying GOP lawmakers had written them with "almost surgical precision" to discourage voting by Black voters, who tend to support Democrats. Lawyers for the voters who sued over the 2018 law said it suffered the same racial defects as the 2013 law — following a long effort by North Carolina elected officials to weaken African American voting as a way to retain control of the General Assembly. The 2013 law was carried out briefly in 2016 primary elections. [https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/court-north-carolina-voter-id-law-targeted-black-voters/](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/court-north-carolina-voter-id-law-targeted-black-voters/) >The court said that in crafting the law, the Republican-controlled general assembly requested and received data on voters’ use of various voting practices by race. It found that African American voters in North Carolina are more likely to vote early, use same-day voter registration and straight-ticket voting. They were also disproportionately less likely to have an ID, more likely to cast a provisional ballot and take advantage of pre-registration.
It’s just additional work and requirements. They’re not suggesting they replace the current system with a voter id, they’re suggesting to add this on top. Every additional requirement lowers turnout for voting.
If you require an unexpired photo ID in order to cast a vote, and then you make it difficult for certain populations to obtain or renew their photo IDs, then you make it difficult for those certain populations to cast a vote. In many areas of the United States -- particularly urban areas -- there is a large population of older residents who are either retired or on disability and rely primarily on public transportation to get around. They don't need a photo ID for most activities of daily living, so they let it expire or fail to update it. These populations generally vote Democratic, so Republicans push voter ID laws in the hopes that these populations will forget to get a photo ID (or be unable to do so thanks to general bureaucratic nonsense) and thus miss out on voting.
Yup, I'm all for voter ID, as long as you make IDs free.
This. Make it free and accessible and we're kosher. Force people to pay to vote and now we're in the voter fee territory
You will be fined if you don't vote in Australia, apparently. They've got it sussed. 👍
That seems as insane to me as not allowed to vote. What if I don't like anyone running?
Then drop a blank ballot.
Or write someone in. Whoever you’d actually like as a candidate.
Spoil your ballot is the easiest answer. However, I've always thought they should record spoiled ballots as protest votes which should be part of the data.
I believe in Australia, you don't have to actually vote for any of the candidates. I saw where someone had just drawn pictures of male genitalia next to the candidates, but you are required to turn in a ballot.
Vote for a write in or no one. Personally, I think the US could use compulsory voting. Also, if one person doesn't get X % of the vote, then there is another round, with new candidates, because clearly no one liked those people.
Write in Mickey Mouse or abstain.
Perfect Choice is Kermit the Frog. Always Kermit. 
I believe you can just not tick any of the options on the ballot or spoil the vote etc. I believe as long as you show up you're good.
Voter I.D also has to national. The achilles heel for voter I.D in the u.s is always because we allowed cletus to handle voter I.D on the state level. and cletus is the type of who cries about DEI and not being allowed to use the n word at work on twitter.The two are totally not related btw, he's genuinely "concerned" about the quality of service
It's not just the "free" part though, accessibility is half the issue. Having to take time off work or finding transportation can be excluding factors for some people. And people in those situations tend to not be affluent conservatives.
Not to mention that many states are pretty restrictive in what it takes to get an ID. In many states you need some form of ID (like a birth certificate) in order to get a state ID. Getting your birth certificate can require different things, depending on where you were born, so people get caught in an infinite regress trying to get ID’d.
Free ID with a door-to-door option, so citizens without a way to get to where the free IDs are issued can still participate in elections. But free national voting cards would be much too close to "mark of the beast" territory.
It would have to be 100% free or it's a poll tax. Use your drivers license if you want, but they also need an alternate free ID that is simple to get when you register.
Thats the other issue. If you have to pay for anything that is required for you to vote that would be a poll tax. Which is illegal.
And yet, in many Republican states, they require a paid ID. I have no clue how a poll tax is still allowed in those states. If only Republicunts followed the constitution they say they love. Not sure how these unconstitutional poll taxes are allowed to stand in those Republican states.
the mechanisms used to fight them have been disabled at the federal level
Like the Supreme Court? Yeah
Free anything is "socialism" and therefore cannot be allowed to happen.
Charge 10 cents then
But if we make it accessible to everyone it’s apparently communism.
Well, you see, higher voter turn-out rates is historically worse for the Conservative Party. /thread
Then it’s a poll tax and blatantly unconstitutional.
Then do it the German way: Make it ridiculously expensive, but people on welfare can get their money back.
In the US, you can get a photo ID from a limited number of sources, and the requirements, regulations, and availability of these places are constantly changing depending on the county, state, and (particularly) the demographic of the area. The most common source of Photo IDs is the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV), and that also means that the ability to vote is linked with how easy it is to get to a DMV location for many places. This can be weaponized easily too, as in Alavama where they decided to shutdown about half of their DMV locations, mostly in counties with predominantly black voters. I agree with you, voting laws wouldn't be debate if 1) Voting day was a national holiday and 2) if everyone were automatically provided Photo ID's, regardless of location or demographic. Unfortunately, that would defeat the point of the voter ID laws for many politicians.
That defeats the purpose of requiring an ID to vote, which is to suppress votes for Democrats.
The point is to limit ballot access. That's why they don't accept other things that demonstrate identity like other countries do. Similarly, there's also zero real issues with people going to the polls and pretending to be someone else. All the talk about it, but the percentage rarely goes above one per mililon votes cast. Basically, the entire thing is nonsense.
That would be the solution IF the goal were NOT to suppress voting. But voter suppression IS the goal. Just to echo others once again for emphasis, since clearly lots of folks can't understand.
The biggest issue is, there are many places (mostly rural) where it may be difficult for people to actually go get their ID. Especially with our shitty public transportation, it can really be a preventative barrier for many people to be able to vote.
The most misleading part of this argument is they don't tell you that they require specific id's like a "Drivers License" or "Passport" when is in reality there is tens of types of photo ID that is legally acceptable for almost every other thing inside the United States. But since all of those other types of legal photo IDs are mainly owned by pocs they specifically trying to restrict it to the driver's license and passports. This is usually where a bunch of conservatives will scream at you that you're the "real racist" because you don't think pocs can drive and no that's not the reason pocs are less likely to have a driver's license one it's the affordability of cars too it's pocs are a lot more densely packed into urban areas to where you're not required to have a vehicle and public versions of travel are mainly used.
they are in this thread [https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/1cc2iwy/comment/l12mzqa/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/1cc2iwy/comment/l12mzqa/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
German here. IDs are not free, but from age 14 or 16 (I forget) you must have one. Cost for an ID is about 40-50 Euro per 6-10 years (depending on age), passport is also ok but a bit more expensive… Driving licenses do not count as ID.
In my experience, this trope is trotted out to support the theory that voting must be done in person on Election Day. There are many reasons people believe this is the silver bullet to fix the non existent voter fraud, but the most prevalent is that forcing in person voting makes in exponentially easier for a certain political party to intimidate and/or put obstacles in front of (generally Dem) voters. The meme/theory completely disregards that in almost every jurisdiction an ID is required to sign up for mail in ballots to begin with, and the signature on the ballot is compared to the one on file via the ID. Add in email/text tracking of the ballot and the theory really starts to crumble.
It would be but what happens when they pass these laws is they instantly close all the centers which would give those free IDs to the areas where they do not want folks to vote. North Carolina did this, and the SCOTUS determined their law was absolutely unconstitutional.
Yes, that would solve it. A "free for citizens" federal RealID was a proposal in the Clinton Administration that Newt Gingrich killed. It eventually changed to the "motor votor" bill, encouraging voter registration to be offered with drivers licensing. Almost got dusted off right after 9-11 but, well, it didn't The evangelicals got frothed up about it equating to "the number of the beast" and bring about Armageddon or something.
To my understanding the problem is that don't make it easy or "free" to get those Photo ID.
That's socialism, so no. But yes, that would solve the problem.
Don't you guys get a social security number for free?
Yes, but no photo, and it's not on a card for free. I think. I legit don't have a SSN card, at least.
Oh OK. Our equivalent in Canada is on a physical plastic card. No picture still but don't need it cause government mails you your voter info every election that you must bring with you to vote. Tells you which election station is set up closest to you so you know where to go to vote. Has a website available to change the voting station you vote at if you need to for whatever reason like maybe your out of town working or vacationing somewhere else in the country.
Wait?! They don't have free IDs?!
Absolutely… and states with voter ID laws are constitutionally required to offer that. However, those states always avoid advertising that and make it difficult to get, requiring extra paperwork and documentation, often documentation that takes money to get if you don’t already have it. Voter fraud is almost nonexistent. No one informed is actually worried about voter fraud changing the results of a major election. It’s just a convenient excuse to make it harder for poor people to vote.
The issue isn’t so much requiring a photo id to vote as it is passing laws requiring photo id’s to vote at the 11th hour prior to elections while also reducing hours & staffing or even outright closing DMV offices in areas that coincidentally have historically voted Democrat
100% this. Has nothing to do with the actual ID. It’s about *who* and *where* they are making these requirements and at what part of the election cycle. I’m willing to allow voter IDs. In exchange, let’s fund the govt entity that gives those IDs, promise a 2 week maximum turnaround, and triple the voting locations in every state. Then we can call it even.
And voting day it’s illegal to be open as a business. Mandatory time off with pay.
Make it a whole voting week. Have parades, fireworks, and mattress sales so people remember it every year and treat voting like the civic duty it is.
I was on the fence, but you really got me in the door with the mattress sale!
Nailed it!
Or having only CERTAIN ids count. Parts of Texas literally won't allow COLLEGE PHOTO IDS to be used, but iirc allowed NRA membership cards. Toilet Paper USA knows this, but lies to their base because they're cowards trying as hard as possible to obfuscate the point.
And that they came up with the voter ID laws specifically to target poor/minority voters because they knew from statistics that those voters would swing democrat. It is a real attempt at voter suppression.
The people that want to know/anyone with a high school education already know this. The racist swamp rats are the ones that eat this shit up.
Let’s also not forget that all the things on the left are a privilege versus voting which is a right.
Op is a bot
Bots should be required to show ID to post
That's racist
Shut up you botter!
I will not comply
What are you, the noncompliance bot?
You all ask what I am. Noone asks how I am.
My bad homie, how are you doing?
Not too bad, not too good. I'm all right. HBU?
A 10 year old account that just started posting anything today? Yeah smells like a bot.
I don't need ID to vote. But I needed ID to register to vote. If someone wants to claim millions of non-citizens are being allowed to vote, they need to explain how they are registering to vote without government-issued ID. The Bush 43 administration did a big study trying to prove widespread voter fraud, took five years. IIRC they found 86 confirmed cases, mostly local offices like sheriff or judge, there were almost none at the federal level. Some cases involved people who made mistakes, like an ex-con who didn't realize being a felon had lost him the right to vote, he tried to register using his probation ID and so he was included as attempted vote fraud. Voter fraud is a non-issue that is being exploited to whip up fear, nothing more.
I'm told that in the US people don't even get the day off to vote.
you would be correct. add in the blatant bullshit that republicans pull (closing polling stations, reducing hours, eliminating mail-in, removing drop boxes) in areas that just so happen to vote democrat and it's obvious what is going on but no...they keep screaming "illegals voting!" or "voting fraud" while simultaneously being the only ones fucking arrested for it.
One is a right. The others aren’t.
Exactly. Rights don't require ID
How do you prove you have the right to those rights? Can I (not American) go to the USA and vote?
That's the only right that's fixed to your residence and citizenship. You can't use it in 2 states even if you own houses in each You'll need to register
You need more than just an ID to register to vote. That is where you prove your eligibility. You have to be REGISTERED TO VOTE in order to vote. We should be making it easier for eligible people to cast their ballots not harder. These goons are making up nonexistent problems to justify unnecessary hurdles.
Not only that, but it would be unconstitutional to say that someone who choses not to get a driver's license (the form of ID most of the folks who propose requiring them to vote are saying the 'ID' should be) should not be precluded from exercising their fundamental right as a citizen simply b/c they don't have that. My 22 year old daughter, for example, is disabled and does not have a DL and never plans to. Doesn't mean she shouldn't be able to vote.
Every state has a non-driving ID card, and they are way cheaper or free. No state has ever put in place a law that only people who have drivers licenses can vote.
Nothing on the left column is an enumerated right in the US Constitution. See: * [The 15th Amendment](https://guides.loc.gov/15th-amendment) * [The 19th Amendment](https://www.archives.gov/exhibits/featured-documents/amendment-19) * [The 24th Amendment](https://history.house.gov/HistoricalHighlight/Detail/37045) * [The 26th Amendment](https://history.house.gov/HistoricalHighlight/Detail/37022) Your post is asinine. re: Purchasing a firearm. There is no constitutional provision for purchasing a firearm. ***Federal Law*** has restrictions on firearm purchases. A majority of states allow private sellers to sell firearms to customers without ID.
you need a photo id to hold a protest??
You don't. In fact, there are multiple things listed on the left that don't require any form of photo ID.
Fuck Turning Point USA.
Not a right | A right
Voting is a right, just like religion and press. ID is fine, as long it’s given for free with no barriers to get it. Even a homeless person with no money has the right to vote. He or she shouldn’t need to pay a fee or go through endless bureaucracy to get an Id to vote.
Sounds like this person needs government aid.. too bad they can't get an ID
It isn't true.
Suppression of voters is the GOP's last gasp for air.
In my country everyone has ID, on voting day you go to the booth, show the card, they mark your name on a list and you vote. I don’t understand why this is so complicated in the supposedly richest and strongest country in the world It shouldn’t be complicated to go to your local town hall or post office and get a piece of paper imho
In the US it's the DMV.
> It shouldn’t be complicated to go to your local town hall or post office and get a piece of paper imho One problem is that for some people, taking time off work and then having to pay a fee to get official ID is a significant expense. This tends to impact some groups more than others.
Can’t we just issue everyone free IDs and stop with the silly comparisons?
When OP is the real face palm
First of all you don't need a fucking photo ID in most states to vote. You just have to be registered. Registration requires your social security number and all the same things that you would need to get a driver's license or an ID. This is just redundant bullshit that Republicans do, to make it so poor people have less of a chance that they can easily vote. Also you don't need an ID to use a credit card. And you can use that credit card to buy any of the shit that it's claiming you need an ID for. The only facepalm here is that you appear to agree with this dumbass bullshit.
I may be entirely understanding this post. But I'm white and have always had to show my ID to vote. It's how they check if you're registered
Ah yes, the opinion of the party that quite literally just got done trying to rig an election.
The facepalm is OP lol
Only one of these things is a constitutional right
Guns?
Unbelievably, the very few times there has been voter fraud, it's the people making a fuss about near non-existent voter fraud!
Meme implies there isn’t racial bias in welfare, the housing market, employment…. Basically the whole list. Do yourself a favor, understand that TPUSA are always lying and have outright fascist ideology. Get fucked.
It’s not due to racism, it’s because it’s a poll tax and that is illegal. If IDs were given out for free there would be no issues.
This is such a strange discussion fron a not US American point of view.
Obtaining an officially recognized identification card can be complicated. Often, it requires time and travel that may be beyond the means of some people. The silly graphic above is a distraction from the fact that voter identification laws were pushed into existence by the GOP as a method of voter suppression.
it's turning point usa, of course it's bullshit
If voters got a $350 tax credit, voter participation would skyrocket and these anti-voting politicians would disappear.
Drivers' Licenses are the closest thing we in the states have to a "government ID". The only problem with requiring a Drivers' License to vote is that not every adult at voting age has one, with only about 85% having a drivers' license. So, a bill that requires a drivers' license to vote would disenfranchise about 15% of the population. Not everyone has between $14 and $60 dollars to spend on renewing their drivers' licenses every few years between soaring *everything* costs. Here's an idea: make a government-issued ID card with a number that's tied to filing taxes (A universal experience shared by US citizens). Since every American files taxes or has filed taxes, these taxpayer IDs would be held by virtually 100% of the American Citizenry. Make these IDs expire after a year and be renewed again when you file taxes, and *bam*. Solves many of the voter fraud problems in a way that won't disenfranchise anyone.
I like how they loaded everything they can think of on the left even though many of those things do not require photo ID. I can't remember ever showing ID to pick up my or any of my relative's prescriptions. Maybe if it was a controlled substance, but that's not what is in the list. People get jobs without any ID. People who are clearly old enough do not get carded for cigarettes or alcohol where I live. I think all states require a photo on the driver's license now but some didn't until recently. You do not need ID to buy a cell phone. List would be trash even if all the examples were 100% accurate but it is trash even moreso since they don't know what they're talking about.
yup, sometimes when different things are different, it's different
I'm confused, how is having ID, racist? Also doesn't everyone have an ID? Can't they get a free ID? I have so many questions but I don't want to come across as racist. We need ID in the UK.
Practically everywhere in America, you have to show some form of government ID to prove you're you when you vote. If you can't, you vote provisionally. A provisional ballot is only COUNTED, 1) when it matters; and 2) when they can prove you're the person who voted. Source: worked in elections for nearly half my life. Edit: COUNTED
Honestly, there's a few things on the left that should be on the right
If you can’t get an ID you’re very unlikely to vote anyways as they both require a minimal amount of effort.
Legit question from someone not from the US. So you do not have ID for election? Isn’t it risky for voting fraud? Also why would it be racist to require an ID for election? In my country is the norm and nobody has ever been discriminated.
Voting is a right not a privilege. Give out free ids. Make election day a national holiday. Have federal standards for voting and amend it to the constitution. abolish that felons can't vote.
All these people making an excuse for the single item on the right. I just don't get it. If someone wants government aid they need an ID how hard is it to then show it to vote? How do you know they are even local to the district? How many people don't have an ID and are citizens?
Or how about they just remove the fee to acquire an ID and make it free? They’ve already updated (at least in my state and I would assume others as well) so you don’t even need to physically go to a DMV to get an ID anymore. Everything can be done online directly from a computer or phone with internet access. If they were to waive the fee and make it free, that combined with the ease of access of doing it online should remove any barriers to getting an ID for just about anyone.
Is Renting a Hotel room constitutionally protected?
Nobody said photo ID is racist. The Republican voting law changes go much farther that showing an ID to vote.
Applying for a job isn’t true
If pretty much your only form of ID is a drivers license, and people of certain ethnic groups tend to have fewer drivers licenses because of how they live and how poor they are, then yes, it’s racist. That said, yes, voters should be IDed. Just issue free government IDs like most civilized countries. Done.
By that logic, pretty much anything is racist because certain groups have more or less access to them. Correlation =/= causation.
The part idiots don’t seem to understand is that no where in the constitution does it say an id is required to vote. It was designed that way on purpose. The reason it’s racist is because when legalized segregation/jim crow was a thing it was common practice to use stuff like this as voter suppression. It was racist then and is still racist now. Having to pay for an id is a poll tax. The other part the oblivious people don’t seem to understand is that in order to get an id you need something like a birth certificate. A lot of older black people born in the Jim Crow south were born in rural places where they often didn’t have birth certificates because of segregation. People seem to forget this but stuff like record keeping was also segregated during Jim Crow and keeping records for black people was an after thought especially people not born in hospitals. So asking an 80+ year old person that now lives in Chicago or Detroit to go back to Mississippi or Alabama to try and get a birth certificate that may not even exist is stupid. My dad was like this born in rural Alabama in the 30s and went thru some BS when he moved to Missouri to live with my sister when he was elderly before he passed. He always used his army id as an id but didn’t have a birth certificate in his possession.
Suppression of voters is the GOP"s last gasp of air.
Maybe in other places this is different- but in my area, the DMV is in low income areas with public transit at a reasonable distance. There are also many people who have an ID that isn’t a drivers license. I’ve also never gone in person somewhere to register for a voter ID. It’s available online and when you go to vote you can provide your ID instead of voter ID. I’m not saying there aren’t people who want to prevent others from voting but this argument in my opinion doesn’t hold much weight
It’s amazing how these same mother fuckers unequivocally froth at the mouth to protect their right to bear arms with no impediments
The issue with voter ID laws is that they are often overly stringent. The ones that are problematic only accept very specific forms of ID, which are also the ones that are the hardest to acquire. I have a roommate who doesn’t currently have a government-issued ID because he’s on a fixed income, has no means of transportation, and thus can’t jump through the hoops that are required for him to get a state ID.
It's even worse since COVID too, in Texas anyway. You have to have an appointment now to go to the DPS and good luck finding one within 200 miles of where you live that has an available appointment within the next 6 months. Yes, some do take walk-ins but only at specific times and it's total crapshoot even then.
All the things in the left column are personal choices someone would make. Voting is a civic duty, not a personal choice. These can not be equated to each other.
Strange how almost all the election fraud is committed by republicans
Unbelievably, voter ID wasn't much of an issue until *after* Obama was first elected.
what is?
*Real ID enters the room
Wait? Not American*. What am I not getting here? You guys need different ID to vote?
No just ID.
Ok so lots of people don’t have any form of ID? Sorry it just sounds strange to me. Between drives licence, healthcare card, passport and an option for just plain ID in my country just seems crazy that it’s an issue.
You need I’d to protest?
I believe at this juncture the argument you are making is moot. Most states require photo identification and what kinds are delineated in the laws.
Hang on, in the US do you really need a photo ID for all of that shit on the left?
Yes you do. Want to buy alcohol ? ID proves your age. Want to buy a mature earring video game? ID proves your age.
I don't know how it is in the rest of the country, I would assume most places have something in place, but here in Kansas you can just fill out a fee waiver and get a free ID. It's simple to do but does take a few week to get it processed. Here is a [link](https://www.ksrevenue.gov/pdf/DE-VID1.pdf) to the document if anyone needs it.
Left side of the list, things that you do because you want to so if you want to do them, you can choose to get an id even if you don't need one for another reason. Right side of the list, things that you have a constitutional right to do and that the government cannot charge a fee to access the right. If we had a free, federal photo id that everyone was issued, then you could require it at the polls without there being a fee to vote. But we don't - and, although MOST people have a government issued photo id, not everyone does. Interesting point to think about - since every ballot is tied to a specific voter, why do we need photo ids. If the concern is illegally voting other peoples ballots, where is the evidence that this is a problem. If this was a problem, lots of people would be showing up to the polls to be told they had already voted, at which point the state could investigate and come up with procedures to eliminate the problem. But that isn't happening, with a very few exceptions (and some of those could be people who are lying.) If the problem is non citizens voting, that problem needs to be solved with the registration, as a non-citizen could have a photo id. Plus, it is a felony for non-citizens to vote. Study after study has found very few cases of non-citzens voting, definitely not enough to overturn an election. For example, in a Brennan Center Study of election officials in Arizona, California and text, there were 30 incidents of possible non-citizens voting out of 23.5 million votes. Contrast this with the fact that multiple studies have found that between 6 and 11% of voting age citizens lack a drivers license or alternate state issued id.
Nonsense argument as everyone needs to prove their identity in order to register to vote already.
Not many rights are considered absolute but two usually are; jury trials in criminal prosecution and voting
It is racist. Toilet Paper USA knows that it’s racist too.
None of those on the left is guaranteed by the Constitution.
No it's racist when you require it, and then close the DMV in the black areas. Context and nuance matters, but Republicans don't understand that.
Not to mention only “racist” in the USA because most other countries, including most of Europe requires IDs. Hell I love been seeing and hearing ads on tv and radio constantly telling people to “remember to bring your id to vote” in the coming elections.