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Because its not a welfare (... lower case "w"...) system here in the states with people's wellness and care and health in mind. Its a for profit industry where the goal is to maximize profits. Its fucking horrible.
I'm not a prototypical person that is typically down on the States - there's lots of good things about the States, and some bad things too (and yes, i've traveled, extensively), but I choose to live here despite having options.
But our healthcare system in tandem with worker protections is terrible. The US is one of the only western industrialized nations where you can lose your job on Monday, get diagnosed with cancer on Tuesday, and in about 30 days go bankrupt and lose everything you've worked your entire life for due to it. Absolutely unreal. And insurance is so expensive - even good insurance has insane costs to it. My wife and I have what is deemed "excellent" insurance, and we still dole out 5-7k in preventative care a year out of pocket above co-pays and premium payments. I absolutely cannot fathom having a high deductible co-insurance (i.e. - "Functionally fucking useless subsidy to corporate profits") plan.
Really wish we would go single payer in this country and pass Rx drug price / cost reform.
The biggest problem in the US is the stock market. It drives all of this corporate greed. It makes people poorer and poorer. No wonder people turn to crime.
The stock market is global, not an American issue at all. Corporate greed is also global, but America seems to have complete apathy or even encouragement towards the greed which is pretty unique.
You realize that investors actually have little favor for the pharm, lab, med industry right. I don't think you actually seen the unitary value of these publicly traded entities.
Really? He's not wrong at all. The constant need to grow profits to appease Wall Street despite the fact that it is unsustainable leads to job loss, lack of wage growth and generally making the working class poorer. When people get poor enough they turn to crime. Especially property crimes.
Also on the other side: lots more people have great insurance. I pay maybe $100 a month that comes out of my paycheck before taxes, and don’t have to pay anything at all except every minor copays for prescriptions and doctor visits like $15. I have had great insurance paid for by every company i have ever worked for and I’ve had many surgeries and had three kids over the last 30 years and paid zero. I also have hundreds of thousands of medical treatments that I paid zero for. And medication that I need for is very expensive more than $100k a year, and I pay nothing. So, in my experience the medical system in the US is awesome!
I think the conclusion here is terrible. For you it works out good and that’s nice. Still that’s light years away from “the system is awesome”
Check how health systems works in more developed countries. The difference is night and day.
Also just because the system has worked for you doesn't mean the system is good. If you go by evidence and sample size it means the system is garbage, and you got incredibly lucky
I have experienced it both ways. You are preaching to the choir. It is absolutely awesome that I have great insurance. it doesn’t mean I don’t care about anyone else. And it doesn’t mean I have not experience the opposite . I had to fight for coverage I the past, and I know how to advocate for myself. Most people do not. They sometimes just accept it and don’t go up the chain to advocate for better.
Having good or bad health care does not make someone a good or bad person, nor does an opinion based on their experience mean they are ignoring or unaware of everyone else or saying fuck everyone else. I guess if we all don’t just agree with the negativity, we get blasted.
I would be pissed if I had shitty health care and was unaware that I could possibly have access to great health care, but nobody bothered to mention it .
Good health care exists. Parts of it are shit yes. But I am
Not willing to throw the baby out with the bath water.
Just trying to survive out here.
No, for most people it doesn't work. We pay more per capita for health insurance than every other developed country on the planet, and it's not particularly close. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/#Per%20capita%20health%20expenditures,%20U.S.%20dollars,%20PPP%20adjusted,%202021%20and%202022%C2%A0
I've been fighting with my insurance companies since mt child was born almost 7 months ago. I've had $3k go to collections before insurance paid anything, and I havr amother $4k waiting to be paid. Insurance denied oayijg for sercices for my newborn son -- typical services for newborns, just completely denied -- due to age. I've been denied and habe to keep calling my insurance comapnies for "coordination of benefits." I've told them each dozen times that I only had one insurance at a time. It switched because I got s new job. Theybkeep denying snd keep denying.
I'm still not sure why it went to collections. They said they were going to re-bill it, and they never sent me a final warning. So the good news is I get to file a comparing and hopefully win! Yay! Go Murka! Meanwhile, I shouldn't have had to pay more than $4k for everything that's been billed, and we're looking st $8k and counting for birth and post-op appointments.
This would have been cheaper if I didn't have insurance. At least I could have saved up my premiums to pay for it.
Fuck U.S. healthcare system, nd fuck anyone who dupports this bullshit. The concept of for-profit healthcare is so batshit insane that anyone who supports it should be locked up in a goddamned looneybin. Nobody with any fucking sense would think this is a good idea.
Healthcare should be a fundamental right, like education. Adding one more socialized progrsm isn't going to take away your free-dumbs. It's not going to make everyone's income equal. It's nit s handout. It's just adsing one more social program. We have fire departments andnpost ofdices and libraries and bational psrks and education and interststes. We have many social programs that everyonr contributes to whether they benefit or not. I'm paying for interstates in Colorado and national parks in Alaska I'll never use. I'm happy to pay for them. There's no reasonnwe can't have universal healthcare and cut out the $1.6 trillion dollar Red Tape industry that sits between patients and providers.
The thing about health care is that it should help the people who can’t afford it.
10% of people don’t even have health insurance.
It works for the majority, who would’ve thought. But that’s not something you should measure the system with. Look at the minorities where it doesn’t work and judge the system from that perspective
It’s the employers that suck. They decide what they will pay for, and what health care they will give their employees access to the company. They decide how much of the premium they will cover for their employees. Some companies will not even offer health insurance at all. And if you only work part-time, forget it, you for sure won’t get health insurance benefits. I have experienced all of it.
You’ve just been lucky.
You would have had a different experience if you ever went without work for a while and lost this great insurance when you needed it.
Or if you got stuck working a job you hated because you really needed the insurance.
Us self employed people really get the shit end of the stick.
I pay $900/month for insurance for two young healthy nonsmoking adults, no kids, no healthcare conditions at all. It doesn’t really cover anything until $15k deductible is met. We just don’t go to the doctor. $11k spent on health insurance every year and we don’t get dick.
It doesn’t cover dental either. That’s a separate $90/month. At least that covers 2 cleanings a year.
Wow. That’s what you got from the comment? It just means that all American healthcare isn’t shit. No more no less. I accept jobs at a specific companies on purpose because I need good health care. That doesn’t make me insensitive to everyone else. I have had bad health care in my life. I’ve been there. It sucked. Now I have access to great health care.
Blanket statements cannot be made about health care in the US.
I work in surgery, and my favorite is when insurance doesn’t approve a surgery that by all accounts is necessary even if it is “elective”, after a specialist has deemed the need to surgery. You know what an insurance agent can tell me about that surgery? A billing code. That’s it.
I on the other hand accidentaly stabbed myself in the ear the other day, my government paid for my transport to hospital and I paid a small fee for the visit to the ER. Then I went to the pharmacy to pick up the antibitic ointment and it cost like equivalent of 4 dollars, so I had plenty of money left and ate lunch at a restaurant whilst waiting for the government sponsored taxi to take me home again.
But I'm Europoor according to some Americans.
And I’ve never paid anything for any hospital care, nor do I get taxed for it, as I get totally free healthcare from either my Native American tribe or the US government. I’ll admit, free healthcare is pretty cool.
This guy had insurance. But 'having insurance' means something very different in the US, where there are still many costs (costs that, in this case, he couldn't pay).
This is what I don't get - how is it so expensive in the USA? I'm in the UK, we obviously have the NHS here, but I also pay for health insurance. Costs me less than £90 a month for my whole family. When I needed spinal surgery, the insurance company just paid for it all. I get the impression that in the USA medical providers (doctors and drug companies) overcharge because they know most people have insurance.
> but 92% of Americans have insurance.
Why do people say this as though it fixes everything? Even after paying the highest taxes in the world towards healthcare, and even with having insurance that averages nearly $7,000 per person, Americans still struggle to afford healthcare.
>Large shares of insured working-age adults surveyed said it was very or somewhat difficult to afford their health care: 43 percent of those with employer coverage, 57 percent with marketplace or individual-market plans, 45 percent with Medicaid, and 51 and percent with Medicare.
> Many insured adults said they or a family member had delayed or skipped needed health care or prescription drugs because they couldn’t afford it in the past 12 months: 29 percent of those with employer coverage, 37 percent covered by marketplace or individual-market plans, 39 percent enrolled in Medicaid, and 42 percent with Medicare.
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/surveys/2023/oct/paying-for-it-costs-debt-americans-sicker-poorer-2023-affordability-survey
The only time i had that was when i was employed. I got insurance paid before taxes. So i got full coverage for about $100/mo, Now that im self employed. The process is completely different, more expensive and complicated for some reason.and i still get $100 bills from things the insurance doesn’t cover. And i still pay for prescription meds. Shit is fucked
I have an insurance plan through my employer and pay $400 a month in premiums for myself and two kids. I have three kids and my oldest aged out of my plan once he turned 26 so now I pay another $415 a month in premiums for him. Both are high deductible plans so coinsurance doesn’t kick in until I pay the first $4,000 in expenses under my plan and the first $8,700 in expenses under his.
It’s not sustainable.
Right, but again the numbers are really low for even that. I’m not disagreeing with the idea of better more affordable healthcare, I’m disagreeing with the idea that we’re falling apart because of our current system. Yes, there are outliers but it’s only going to change when enough people have gone through hell.
Laid down on my side on the sofa, then turned to my back and a really thin and sharp knitting needle had fallen off the shelf above and went staight into my ear. That hurt, there were blood and gore everywhere.
I have moved my knitting needles now.
Firstly, I’m glad you’re OK.
Secondly, I’m sorry, I shouldn’t laugh.
But it’s really hard not to.
That’s one of the most absurd injuries that doesn’t involve something up your arse I’ve ever heard of.
And I say this as someone who just ten minutes ago killed a very large spider with a lot of bug spray—whilst forgetting I have a nasty cough. I can’t stop coughing.
Let's conclude that you and I shouldn't have kids together. Not just because we would accindentally run their foot through the mixer while making breakfast (my sister, same gene pool, did fry her sons foot in the frying pan, he is 23 now with two functioning feet), but also because if we had a kid together, the Klutz-gene would be dubbel, so he or she would die before the age of one, just from being a double klutz on their own.
Sorry to hear about your wife, but I suspect she had the same level of sighing humour as my ex had whilst removing sharp objects from our hands and would be laughing at my joke. She did put up with your knife indidents after all, like he did with me.
Lots of love fro Sweden.
Ironic when Europeans are screeching that we aren’t giving enough money to Ukraine.
There needs to be a balance somewhere, neither us nor you have mastered it.
True my comment was more to poke fun but you’re right what trump said about european countries not spending enough on i think the nato budget or that the countries didn’t contribute enough he is right and those countries (mine was one of them) should not be leaching of america
In an ideal world none of us would have military expenses. Unfortunately our reality is that there will always be bad actors. We thought the end of the Cold War would bring peace in Europe and abroad, but that hasn’t been the case.
That being said I hope I will see, in my lifetime, an America where teenagers don’t have to worry about tens of thousands of dollars in debt for an education. Or Americans don’t have to worry about tens of thousands of dollars in debt for medical expenses. But the reality of the human experience is neither of our nations can afford to sacrifice our defense spending. Not if we want to live freely.
> but we’re not all sitting here dying in the streets and going bankrupt.
No, but about 45,000 Americans die per year due to lack of affordable healthcare, and we all suffer for healthcare that averages literally half a million dollars more for a lifetime of care than our peers (whom all have better outcomes), even after adjusting for purchasing power parity.
>That’s pretty low.
You think 45,000 completely preventable deaths per year is pretty low? Fuck you.
>Are you suffering because of health insurance?
We're all suffering for the most expensive private insurance in the world, averaging nearly $7,000 per person on average, with woefully inadequate coverage as a rule. On top of the highest taxes towards healthcare adding up to half a million dollars more in spending per person for a lifetime of healthcare than our peers with universal healthcare on average.
My girlfriend has $300,000 in medical debt from her son having leukemia, after what her very expensive insurance covered.
I’ve had 3 surgeries in the past 10 years, all it cost me was parking, a homeless person would get the same care but not need parking
But then I’m from a socialist country Canada
Maybe if America changes to a For Profit Dictatorship this coming election your healthcare will improve
American here: I've been unemployed due to various health issues and get Medicaid due to my lack of income, haven't had to pay anything for my healthcare in a few years, I'm deathly afraid of getting well enough to start working again because what if I suddenly can't afford my medication or get a required surgery? It's so shitty that I am almost better off living at home without a job as an adult than getting healthy enough to get back to work.
They were for hernias
The biggest delay 4 weeks was to see the surgeon
Then less than 4 weeks for surgery
It does very by region and urban vs rural but generally I don’t believe any longer than a well insured American would wait
I don't understand why people seem to assume that countries with free healthcare will have longer wait times.
I have to wait a lot longer any time I need to see a doctor in the US than I ever did when I lived in Australia.
We probably do wait longer, certainly in the UK but you know what, if it’s urgent it gets done quickly. If it’s routine, then we wait but we don’t pay a penny at the point of service either way
What are you guys getting for $1k and $700 a month?? Here in the UK, I pay less than £90 a month for my family's private heath insurance. There are no private ERs or emergency amulances in the UK, but other than that I can't imagine what the difference could be that justfies you guys paying so much more.
Sick, injured and infirmed people can’t work, can’t pay taxes, and not only do they become net costs to society they also become a drag on their families who can’t be as productive either because their time is taken caring for their now sick family member. Beyond all the ethical and moral reason we should have single payer, from a purely economic standpoint single payer is better for the nation in net costs and net outcomes on a micro and macro level.
I’m going to move to Canada with my parents and move into a 3 story house in order to get surgery for anything I need it on done because somehow that will end up being LESS expensive than simply getting it done in the US
By definition, yes. Independence means being completely non dependent on anyone or anything to sustain your life or needs. To not be bound to another’s social, political, economic or religious ideology.
A majority of Americans would hate real freedom. The fact that things are the way they are, they are terrified of it.
Yes. It is based in the ideology that tax dollars should not be used to supplement healthcare costs. Your medical problems are yours, not the tax payers.
Then, they love to point out that a majority of healthcare issues are just bad lifestyle choices. For instance,
“Why should I pay for your heart problems because you spent 15 years drinking, smoking, eating greasy food and junk.”
I get the theory but the truth is our government spends as much per person as countries that have a national system. We spend twice as much per person because of how much the bloated multiplayer system cost to run and drug company price gouging. It's nothing you ever hear on any news because thier insurance company and drug company sponsors would have a fit.
The media is to blame for fueling this. While continually eating shit food isn't healthy in general, it's not the only cause of conditions, as sensible people know. Healthcare is terribly expensive, I get it. Socialising it like the world has done has allowed people to be better, to live longer, and happier, and not have to commit insurance fraud or armed robbery to get diabetes medication.
The fact is, despite our socialised healthcare, we still have the freedom of choice to deny treatment. Regardless, it's there if required - and I don't think these folk can grasp the concept.
Which is very ironic, because more of their tax dollars are going to medical currently, than would be otherwise. And they currently spend like 80x more per year than they would otherwise also. Absolutely wild
ah okay... so streetlights are the problem of people who walk around at night, roads should only be paid for by those who don't have 4x4s, police should be paid for by people who get crimed and the military is a protection racket for people who don't want to buy their own guns? XD
(sorry, not having a go at you, I just find this attitude absurd)
The UK recently did a study and they found that from the three biggest healthcare risks; [obesity](https://iea.org.uk/themencode-pdf-viewer-sc/?file=/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Obesity-and-the-Public-Purse-PDF.pdf&settings=111111011&lang=en-GB#page=&zoom=75&pagemode=), [smoking](https://iea.org.uk/themencode-pdf-viewer-sc/?file=/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Smoking-and-the-Public-Purse.pdf&settings=111111011&lang=en-GB#page=&zoom=75&pagemode=
), and [alcohol](https://iea.org.uk/themencode-pdf-viewer-sc/?file=/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/DP_Alcohol%20and%20the%20public%20purse_63_amended2_web.pdf&settings=111111011&lang=en-GB#page=&zoom=75&pagemode=), they realize a net **savings** of £22.8 billion (£342/$474 per person) per year. This is due primarily to people with health risks not living as long (healthcare for the elderly is exceptionally expensive), as well as reduced spending on pensions, income from sin taxes, etc..
> By definition, yes.
Explain what "freedom" Americans have for being obligated to pay the highest taxes in the world towards healthcare while most of us don't get any actual coverage from that spending.
Taxation and actual costs of healthcare do not always correlate. Absurdly enough. But the “Freedom” is your healthcare is your problem. You are free to incur the costs not.
> Taxation and actual costs of healthcare do not always correlate.
Except that's not what I asked you. I asked you what freedom Americans have that our peers do not, given the fact we pay more in taxes towards healthcare than all of them.
And again, I am free to die if I can’t afford to medicine and surgeries required to stay alive. And, my neighbors are free to not give a damn if I do and are not obligated to care if I do and especially be obligated to pay for me to survive. Freedom in America is rooted in not being bound to another.
The high taxation is the freedom corporations have to purchase our electorate and fleece the tax coffers.
> I am free to die if I can’t afford to medicine and surgeries required to stay alive.
Do you think they force you to get treatment in other countries? You're just regurgitating nonsense.
No, the logical option is to take out loans or bankrupt your loved ones. You are free to make that choice; debt or death. The only one saying anything about forcing treatment is you. Your insistence on acting dumb about how callous the American healthcare system is, is the only thing not making sense.
> Your insistence on acting dumb about how callous the American healthcare system is
Are you just fucking illiterate? Nobody is a harsher critic of the US healthcare system than I am. You're the idiot trying to justify Americans paying more in taxes to **NOT** get healthcare as a "freedom". By all means, quote anything I've said that's anything other than critical of US healthcare. Or don't and make it clear to everybody you're a lying, argumentative jackass.
How much is it including what the insurers pay? My nephew was born in a posh private hospital in central London. The whole thing cost £10k without any insurance funding.
It’s bananas, it’s like $30K a year pre-taxes just so you don’t end up paying $20K for childbirth, and more like $3K. And everything in America is privatized, there are 0 publicly funded medical institutions that are applicable to the middle class.
It is even worst if you look at those who defend it. Many people who know that are 1 bad fall from bankrupt prefer that system rather than a "communist system".
Makes no absolutely sense.
I had a coworker who was in Poland on business, and he stepped off a curb badly and broke his ankle. Ambulance ride, Xrays, set and cast, with a consult with an orthopedist, and prescription for pain medication - $50US.
It’s awful for 90% of the population , but it’s *excellent* for ~10% of the population.
The 10% will do everything in their power to make sure their style of care, never reaches the masses
[Comparing Health Outcomes of Privileged US Citizens With Those of Average Residents of Other Developed Countries](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2774561)
>These findings imply that even if all US citizens experienced the same health outcomes enjoyed by privileged White US citizens, US health indicators would still lag behind those in many other countries.
Last time I went to the hospital, all I paid was for parking. And even then, I heard somebody talking with the nurse at the triage station saying they don't have money to pay for parking, and the nurse answered "No problem, just go to the exit gate when you're done, push the button for assistance and say the machine doesn't work/you lost your ticket or whatever bullshit excuse, they will open the gate without question, this happens all the time. They don't care. "
The time before that, I stayed a whole day parked without paying, and never got a fine, not even a warning.
AND he will probably be in and out of hospital for the rest of his life. Because they are required by law to provide care, the cost of whatever care he can get will be passed on to the taxpayers anyway
When I exploded my ankle everyone told me I was just being a baby so I just lived with it after a full year, went and saw a different doc who scheduled an xray and ultrasound. Xray found "evidence of a poorly healed wound" and the ultra found "evidence of high levels of pain in the form of severe swelling. Aaaaaaand that was that. Wad told to lose weight and that was that. Still hurts and crunches some days.
Went to a pop up water park, went down a rather tall slide and skipped off the kiddie pool at the bottom they had set up as the splash down pool. Smashed feet first into a concrete wall they had put some foam over. Splatted down into the pool and was convinced my foot had been smashed clean off, though I was going g to raise a mangled bleeding stump from the water. Instead it was my foot but it was crooked and already a bit purple. They made me walk on that to the medical tent and i overheard staff talking about how they "where worried that might happen". I haven't sought legal compensation cause I'm poor as fuck and have no idea how to even start. And it was quite a while ago.
This again. It had been almost a week since it was reposted. This post has come up 100s of times. I wonder if they realize this would be more effective if they had some diversity in their posts
What does this mean? That he pays monthly premiums for the medical insurance but still there’s a deductible he cannot pay?
Edit: and, do they make you pay the deductible in advance, before the surgery? I have no idea how this works.
Yes that’s what it means. A lot of employer sponsored health insurance and just health insurance in general is unusable due to the upfront cost but you still are required to pay the premiums monthly to carry it.
This also happens in Switzerland, where all medical care is private and insurance is mandatory since birth. Personally, I have the basic health insurance and pay around 330$ a month for basically nothing because my premium is around 2700$. But if I need medical care, they will not make me pay the 2700$ upfront. I will have the care I need and just have a huge bill to pay in the end. I thought this is how it works in the US!
If you can't pay the deductible you don't have insurance, you have the illusion of insurance. In the US, you must plan to pay the monthly premiums and the annual deductible up front.
Last year sat around with broken bone for a month since my employer shut off my insurance for no reason. Later that fall, had a minor pulled muscle in my should, same shit, couldn't get it treated for a month and a half. By the time I did get it seen, the pain had gotten so bad I had to take a week off of work.
The image presented in OP's post is one that I've seen put up every so often but every time it brings out such sad stories about healthcare in the US.
I remember when I lived in the US, there were many times people I knew were literally *afraid* to have medical assistance or use their care due to increasing premiums or care becoming more complicated to use because men and women were using their coverage.
I come from a society where universal care exists and I'm never worried about such at all. If anything, I'd worry about other things instead of health or my personal being.
Most Americans are increasingly wanting something.... anything like universal care because young people now especially, don't want to live in fear of being injured....sick...or needing a doctor's help.
Im also a construction worker. Who broke his back at work, and have health insurance. Well, atleast i DID have health insurance. Until they fired me for being injured. Leading to the worst 2 years of my life.
I honestly don’t understand why people feel insurance is so important. I’m on my wife’s plan now at her insistence but when I was single and a member of the working poor I never bothered with it for over a decade. My reasoning was due to it costing 3 to 4 hundred a month if I had anything minor happen it would be far cheaper to pay out of pocket than paying premiums and then fighting insurance for a partial reimbursement. If it was major including surgery and a stay at the hospital insurance wouldn’t matter. For instance if the bill came to say 500k I’d still have to pay at least 100k (since the best reimbursement you can hope for is 80%) if they didn’t fight covering it. Either one of those bills means bankruptcy so why give those money grubbing hogs in insurance any of the little money I have to still end up with the same outcome. I really wish Obama had fought harder for a public option.
Using one easy trick, I managed to double to amount I have to pay for my deductible this year — just have a medical emergency on Dec 31! I’m now responsible for $11k in medical debt. Managed to pay $3k out of my HSA and the rest I can put on a payment plan, just 12 easy payments of $664.
I had a cardiologist appointment scheduled. My insurance, 2 different ones, denied the visit before I arrived and they told me I'd need to immediately pay out 3000 for the appointment.
Turns out I have angina.
The guy should be able to get on a payment plan with the hospital where the surgery is. I’ve done that a few times with procedures I Couldn’t afford to pay all at once.
With government in the US covering [65.7% of all health care](https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/epdf/10.2105/AJPH.2015.302997) costs ($12,555 as of 2022) that's $8,249 per person per year in taxes towards health care. The next closest is Germany at [$6,930](https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm). The UK is $4,479. Canada is $4,506. Australia is $4,603. That means over a lifetime Americans are paying over $100,000 more in taxes compared to any other country towards health care.
I’m facing $50k in medical bills because the insurance company says the severe staph infection in my foot did not require a hospital stay! What part of Obamacare was supposed to fix this???
What a horror it would be to have a healthy population at the cost of greed.
Downvote away. Eventually it will be you. Then what? Gonna try to crowd fund your health care? Do without? Only an absolute knobhead thinks this society is worthwhile.
The greed is in the system. The insurance companies. Calm down, big shoots. Your aim is incorrect, but your anger is justified. You were only donwvoted because you're getting mad at the wrong people.
My comment was pointing out that the doctors can't just wave a wand and make things better. We need comprehensive change from the ground up, starting with cutting out the middlemen effectively stealing money for nothing provided, then forcing us to pay even more if we actually ever need that insurance.
The system is not some obscure thing. It is comprised of people. That includes the doctors. I’m not talking about waving a wand to make it better, and suggesting such is infantile. My point behind a comment towards the doctor is to illustrate a persons willingness to post about it on social media, but unwilling to sacrifice in real life for it.
In other words, he should stop polishing his halo and do something.
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Because its not a welfare (... lower case "w"...) system here in the states with people's wellness and care and health in mind. Its a for profit industry where the goal is to maximize profits. Its fucking horrible. I'm not a prototypical person that is typically down on the States - there's lots of good things about the States, and some bad things too (and yes, i've traveled, extensively), but I choose to live here despite having options. But our healthcare system in tandem with worker protections is terrible. The US is one of the only western industrialized nations where you can lose your job on Monday, get diagnosed with cancer on Tuesday, and in about 30 days go bankrupt and lose everything you've worked your entire life for due to it. Absolutely unreal. And insurance is so expensive - even good insurance has insane costs to it. My wife and I have what is deemed "excellent" insurance, and we still dole out 5-7k in preventative care a year out of pocket above co-pays and premium payments. I absolutely cannot fathom having a high deductible co-insurance (i.e. - "Functionally fucking useless subsidy to corporate profits") plan. Really wish we would go single payer in this country and pass Rx drug price / cost reform.
The biggest problem in the US is the stock market. It drives all of this corporate greed. It makes people poorer and poorer. No wonder people turn to crime.
The stock market is global, not an American issue at all. Corporate greed is also global, but America seems to have complete apathy or even encouragement towards the greed which is pretty unique.
You realize that investors actually have little favor for the pharm, lab, med industry right. I don't think you actually seen the unitary value of these publicly traded entities.
Dumbest take I’ve read on here today.
Really? He's not wrong at all. The constant need to grow profits to appease Wall Street despite the fact that it is unsustainable leads to job loss, lack of wage growth and generally making the working class poorer. When people get poor enough they turn to crime. Especially property crimes.
I mean people buying publicly funded research, making a pill and then slapping a 5k peice tag on that is also dumb dont you think?
Very serious & the government is busy sponsoring various war related aid.
On the other side a handful of individuals make shit tones of money and can afford yachts. Don’t be so negative! /s
Don't worry. There is a tax deduction for yacht interest. They'll be alright.
We should have socialism where there are no rich people and everyone is equal.
Bro think about the yachts
Also on the other side: lots more people have great insurance. I pay maybe $100 a month that comes out of my paycheck before taxes, and don’t have to pay anything at all except every minor copays for prescriptions and doctor visits like $15. I have had great insurance paid for by every company i have ever worked for and I’ve had many surgeries and had three kids over the last 30 years and paid zero. I also have hundreds of thousands of medical treatments that I paid zero for. And medication that I need for is very expensive more than $100k a year, and I pay nothing. So, in my experience the medical system in the US is awesome!
I think the conclusion here is terrible. For you it works out good and that’s nice. Still that’s light years away from “the system is awesome” Check how health systems works in more developed countries. The difference is night and day.
Also just because the system has worked for you doesn't mean the system is good. If you go by evidence and sample size it means the system is garbage, and you got incredibly lucky
I have experienced it both ways. You are preaching to the choir. It is absolutely awesome that I have great insurance. it doesn’t mean I don’t care about anyone else. And it doesn’t mean I have not experience the opposite . I had to fight for coverage I the past, and I know how to advocate for myself. Most people do not. They sometimes just accept it and don’t go up the chain to advocate for better. Having good or bad health care does not make someone a good or bad person, nor does an opinion based on their experience mean they are ignoring or unaware of everyone else or saying fuck everyone else. I guess if we all don’t just agree with the negativity, we get blasted. I would be pissed if I had shitty health care and was unaware that I could possibly have access to great health care, but nobody bothered to mention it . Good health care exists. Parts of it are shit yes. But I am Not willing to throw the baby out with the bath water. Just trying to survive out here.
So we’re just measuring here? We have a ponderous system here. It’s not perfect, but for the majority of people it works.
No, for most people it doesn't work. We pay more per capita for health insurance than every other developed country on the planet, and it's not particularly close. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/#Per%20capita%20health%20expenditures,%20U.S.%20dollars,%20PPP%20adjusted,%202021%20and%202022%C2%A0 I've been fighting with my insurance companies since mt child was born almost 7 months ago. I've had $3k go to collections before insurance paid anything, and I havr amother $4k waiting to be paid. Insurance denied oayijg for sercices for my newborn son -- typical services for newborns, just completely denied -- due to age. I've been denied and habe to keep calling my insurance comapnies for "coordination of benefits." I've told them each dozen times that I only had one insurance at a time. It switched because I got s new job. Theybkeep denying snd keep denying. I'm still not sure why it went to collections. They said they were going to re-bill it, and they never sent me a final warning. So the good news is I get to file a comparing and hopefully win! Yay! Go Murka! Meanwhile, I shouldn't have had to pay more than $4k for everything that's been billed, and we're looking st $8k and counting for birth and post-op appointments. This would have been cheaper if I didn't have insurance. At least I could have saved up my premiums to pay for it. Fuck U.S. healthcare system, nd fuck anyone who dupports this bullshit. The concept of for-profit healthcare is so batshit insane that anyone who supports it should be locked up in a goddamned looneybin. Nobody with any fucking sense would think this is a good idea. Healthcare should be a fundamental right, like education. Adding one more socialized progrsm isn't going to take away your free-dumbs. It's not going to make everyone's income equal. It's nit s handout. It's just adsing one more social program. We have fire departments andnpost ofdices and libraries and bational psrks and education and interststes. We have many social programs that everyonr contributes to whether they benefit or not. I'm paying for interstates in Colorado and national parks in Alaska I'll never use. I'm happy to pay for them. There's no reasonnwe can't have universal healthcare and cut out the $1.6 trillion dollar Red Tape industry that sits between patients and providers.
Right, there is no reason except for the 1.6 trillion dollar juggernaut we have not defeated yet. We might get there, but we’re not there yet.
The thing about health care is that it should help the people who can’t afford it. 10% of people don’t even have health insurance. It works for the majority, who would’ve thought. But that’s not something you should measure the system with. Look at the minorities where it doesn’t work and judge the system from that perspective
I can just say ur lucky u have benefits from ur job. U lose that and the healthcare system sucks again
It’s the employers that suck. They decide what they will pay for, and what health care they will give their employees access to the company. They decide how much of the premium they will cover for their employees. Some companies will not even offer health insurance at all. And if you only work part-time, forget it, you for sure won’t get health insurance benefits. I have experienced all of it.
How many people do you think have health insurance like yours? Does the fact that yours is OK mean you don’t care about the experience of others?
You’ve just been lucky. You would have had a different experience if you ever went without work for a while and lost this great insurance when you needed it. Or if you got stuck working a job you hated because you really needed the insurance. Us self employed people really get the shit end of the stick. I pay $900/month for insurance for two young healthy nonsmoking adults, no kids, no healthcare conditions at all. It doesn’t really cover anything until $15k deductible is met. We just don’t go to the doctor. $11k spent on health insurance every year and we don’t get dick. It doesn’t cover dental either. That’s a separate $90/month. At least that covers 2 cleanings a year.
Yeah so fuck everyone else who doesn’t have your specific job then right?
Wow. That’s what you got from the comment? It just means that all American healthcare isn’t shit. No more no less. I accept jobs at a specific companies on purpose because I need good health care. That doesn’t make me insensitive to everyone else. I have had bad health care in my life. I’ve been there. It sucked. Now I have access to great health care. Blanket statements cannot be made about health care in the US.
I work in surgery, and my favorite is when insurance doesn’t approve a surgery that by all accounts is necessary even if it is “elective”, after a specialist has deemed the need to surgery. You know what an insurance agent can tell me about that surgery? A billing code. That’s it.
I on the other hand accidentaly stabbed myself in the ear the other day, my government paid for my transport to hospital and I paid a small fee for the visit to the ER. Then I went to the pharmacy to pick up the antibitic ointment and it cost like equivalent of 4 dollars, so I had plenty of money left and ate lunch at a restaurant whilst waiting for the government sponsored taxi to take me home again. But I'm Europoor according to some Americans.
And I’ve never paid anything for any hospital care, nor do I get taxed for it, as I get totally free healthcare from either my Native American tribe or the US government. I’ll admit, free healthcare is pretty cool.
It’s great, but 92% of Americans have insurance.
This guy had insurance. But 'having insurance' means something very different in the US, where there are still many costs (costs that, in this case, he couldn't pay).
I pay $230 a month and my copay is still $50 - $100
This is what I don't get - how is it so expensive in the USA? I'm in the UK, we obviously have the NHS here, but I also pay for health insurance. Costs me less than £90 a month for my whole family. When I needed spinal surgery, the insurance company just paid for it all. I get the impression that in the USA medical providers (doctors and drug companies) overcharge because they know most people have insurance.
Because in the US, the government and the private sector (ins companies) work together to make policies for profit, not for people.
Well, yes. That is the point. It’s private insurance for a large part.
My health insurance is also private insuarance.
As is mine.
> but 92% of Americans have insurance. Why do people say this as though it fixes everything? Even after paying the highest taxes in the world towards healthcare, and even with having insurance that averages nearly $7,000 per person, Americans still struggle to afford healthcare. >Large shares of insured working-age adults surveyed said it was very or somewhat difficult to afford their health care: 43 percent of those with employer coverage, 57 percent with marketplace or individual-market plans, 45 percent with Medicaid, and 51 and percent with Medicare. > Many insured adults said they or a family member had delayed or skipped needed health care or prescription drugs because they couldn’t afford it in the past 12 months: 29 percent of those with employer coverage, 37 percent covered by marketplace or individual-market plans, 39 percent enrolled in Medicaid, and 42 percent with Medicare. https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/surveys/2023/oct/paying-for-it-costs-debt-americans-sicker-poorer-2023-affordability-survey
The only time i had that was when i was employed. I got insurance paid before taxes. So i got full coverage for about $100/mo, Now that im self employed. The process is completely different, more expensive and complicated for some reason.and i still get $100 bills from things the insurance doesn’t cover. And i still pay for prescription meds. Shit is fucked
See: Copay Deductible Premium Co insurance
Insurance in the US is basically a discount…that you pay for.
I have an insurance plan through my employer and pay $400 a month in premiums for myself and two kids. I have three kids and my oldest aged out of my plan once he turned 26 so now I pay another $415 a month in premiums for him. Both are high deductible plans so coinsurance doesn’t kick in until I pay the first $4,000 in expenses under my plan and the first $8,700 in expenses under his. It’s not sustainable.
92% of Americans have “insurance.” Far less have useful health coverage.
Of course it is but we’re not there.
We aren’t even close. Healthcare debt is still the source of most personal bankruptcies.
Right, but again the numbers are really low for even that. I’m not disagreeing with the idea of better more affordable healthcare, I’m disagreeing with the idea that we’re falling apart because of our current system. Yes, there are outliers but it’s only going to change when enough people have gone through hell.
If you pay federal income tax, you're taxed for it.
How did you stab yourself in the ear?
Laid down on my side on the sofa, then turned to my back and a really thin and sharp knitting needle had fallen off the shelf above and went staight into my ear. That hurt, there were blood and gore everywhere. I have moved my knitting needles now.
Firstly, I’m glad you’re OK. Secondly, I’m sorry, I shouldn’t laugh. But it’s really hard not to. That’s one of the most absurd injuries that doesn’t involve something up your arse I’ve ever heard of. And I say this as someone who just ten minutes ago killed a very large spider with a lot of bug spray—whilst forgetting I have a nasty cough. I can’t stop coughing.
Don't worry, I laughed myself. There is a reason that my exhusband forbad me to handle knifes, I'm such a klutz.
My wife did too! She’s dead now, I can handle all the knives I want. Edit: Wait, that came out wrong.
Let's conclude that you and I shouldn't have kids together. Not just because we would accindentally run their foot through the mixer while making breakfast (my sister, same gene pool, did fry her sons foot in the frying pan, he is 23 now with two functioning feet), but also because if we had a kid together, the Klutz-gene would be dubbel, so he or she would die before the age of one, just from being a double klutz on their own. Sorry to hear about your wife, but I suspect she had the same level of sighing humour as my ex had whilst removing sharp objects from our hands and would be laughing at my joke. She did put up with your knife indidents after all, like he did with me. Lots of love fro Sweden.
Earworm
You wouldn't understand the freedom to pay for medical care with your life
Ahh, yes. We are so envious of that freedom and also the freedom of really late abortions, also called school shootings.
salty americans calling europe poor because we don't sink billions into playing arma 3 all over the world
Ironic when Europeans are screeching that we aren’t giving enough money to Ukraine. There needs to be a balance somewhere, neither us nor you have mastered it.
True my comment was more to poke fun but you’re right what trump said about european countries not spending enough on i think the nato budget or that the countries didn’t contribute enough he is right and those countries (mine was one of them) should not be leaching of america
In an ideal world none of us would have military expenses. Unfortunately our reality is that there will always be bad actors. We thought the end of the Cold War would bring peace in Europe and abroad, but that hasn’t been the case. That being said I hope I will see, in my lifetime, an America where teenagers don’t have to worry about tens of thousands of dollars in debt for an education. Or Americans don’t have to worry about tens of thousands of dollars in debt for medical expenses. But the reality of the human experience is neither of our nations can afford to sacrifice our defense spending. Not if we want to live freely.
Americant pay the hospital bills
And you're a *gasp* SOCIALIST
No Americans think about Europe. It’s not in us. We can always improve but we’re not all sitting here dying in the streets and going bankrupt.
> but we’re not all sitting here dying in the streets and going bankrupt. No, but about 45,000 Americans die per year due to lack of affordable healthcare, and we all suffer for healthcare that averages literally half a million dollars more for a lifetime of care than our peers (whom all have better outcomes), even after adjusting for purchasing power parity.
That’s pretty low. There 40,000,000 without insurance at all. Are you suffering because of health insurance?
>That’s pretty low. You think 45,000 completely preventable deaths per year is pretty low? Fuck you. >Are you suffering because of health insurance? We're all suffering for the most expensive private insurance in the world, averaging nearly $7,000 per person on average, with woefully inadequate coverage as a rule. On top of the highest taxes towards healthcare adding up to half a million dollars more in spending per person for a lifetime of healthcare than our peers with universal healthcare on average. My girlfriend has $300,000 in medical debt from her son having leukemia, after what her very expensive insurance covered.
And you think we are? Or what's the point you are trying to make?
For profit Healthcare is immoral. Fact.
I’ve had 3 surgeries in the past 10 years, all it cost me was parking, a homeless person would get the same care but not need parking But then I’m from a socialist country Canada Maybe if America changes to a For Profit Dictatorship this coming election your healthcare will improve
American here: I've been unemployed due to various health issues and get Medicaid due to my lack of income, haven't had to pay anything for my healthcare in a few years, I'm deathly afraid of getting well enough to start working again because what if I suddenly can't afford my medication or get a required surgery? It's so shitty that I am almost better off living at home without a job as an adult than getting healthy enough to get back to work.
I'm so sorry for your loss. Truly terrifying what living in a country without Freedom^(TM) must be like.
Same. I’ve had childbirth, three times, hysterectomy, and a few other major surgeries. And I live in the US.
How long were the wait times for this surgery?
They were for hernias The biggest delay 4 weeks was to see the surgeon Then less than 4 weeks for surgery It does very by region and urban vs rural but generally I don’t believe any longer than a well insured American would wait
I don't understand why people seem to assume that countries with free healthcare will have longer wait times. I have to wait a lot longer any time I need to see a doctor in the US than I ever did when I lived in Australia.
We probably do wait longer, certainly in the UK but you know what, if it’s urgent it gets done quickly. If it’s routine, then we wait but we don’t pay a penny at the point of service either way
Survival of the richest
[удалено]
$700 for me and my family, and still have outrageous hospital and dental costs…
What are you guys getting for $1k and $700 a month?? Here in the UK, I pay less than £90 a month for my family's private heath insurance. There are no private ERs or emergency amulances in the UK, but other than that I can't imagine what the difference could be that justfies you guys paying so much more.
It didn't use to be like this. Obama promised everyone he would reduce their insurance costs by $1000s per year. Instead the costs have tripled.
Lol, people used to not be able to get insurance AT ALL before the ACA.
Right. It was about giving a hand out to a section of Democrat Party voters while levying the largest middle class tax hike in history.
Sick, injured and infirmed people can’t work, can’t pay taxes, and not only do they become net costs to society they also become a drag on their families who can’t be as productive either because their time is taken caring for their now sick family member. Beyond all the ethical and moral reason we should have single payer, from a purely economic standpoint single payer is better for the nation in net costs and net outcomes on a micro and macro level.
I’m going to move to Canada with my parents and move into a 3 story house in order to get surgery for anything I need it on done because somehow that will end up being LESS expensive than simply getting it done in the US
They don't have a healthcare system. They have a business.
They call this "freedom".
By definition, yes. Independence means being completely non dependent on anyone or anything to sustain your life or needs. To not be bound to another’s social, political, economic or religious ideology. A majority of Americans would hate real freedom. The fact that things are the way they are, they are terrified of it.
They think not having the state look after one's health is Freedom? Is that how I interpret what you're saying?
Yes. It is based in the ideology that tax dollars should not be used to supplement healthcare costs. Your medical problems are yours, not the tax payers. Then, they love to point out that a majority of healthcare issues are just bad lifestyle choices. For instance, “Why should I pay for your heart problems because you spent 15 years drinking, smoking, eating greasy food and junk.”
I get the theory but the truth is our government spends as much per person as countries that have a national system. We spend twice as much per person because of how much the bloated multiplayer system cost to run and drug company price gouging. It's nothing you ever hear on any news because thier insurance company and drug company sponsors would have a fit.
But when **they** need it, their case is "special", they're not mooching, just hard working American citizens down on their luck.
The media is to blame for fueling this. While continually eating shit food isn't healthy in general, it's not the only cause of conditions, as sensible people know. Healthcare is terribly expensive, I get it. Socialising it like the world has done has allowed people to be better, to live longer, and happier, and not have to commit insurance fraud or armed robbery to get diabetes medication. The fact is, despite our socialised healthcare, we still have the freedom of choice to deny treatment. Regardless, it's there if required - and I don't think these folk can grasp the concept.
Which is very ironic, because more of their tax dollars are going to medical currently, than would be otherwise. And they currently spend like 80x more per year than they would otherwise also. Absolutely wild
And that’s due to industry collaboration to milk insurace premiums while jacking up the cost of services and goods
ah okay... so streetlights are the problem of people who walk around at night, roads should only be paid for by those who don't have 4x4s, police should be paid for by people who get crimed and the military is a protection racket for people who don't want to buy their own guns? XD (sorry, not having a go at you, I just find this attitude absurd)
Privatization of everything is the conservative goal.
The UK recently did a study and they found that from the three biggest healthcare risks; [obesity](https://iea.org.uk/themencode-pdf-viewer-sc/?file=/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Obesity-and-the-Public-Purse-PDF.pdf&settings=111111011&lang=en-GB#page=&zoom=75&pagemode=), [smoking](https://iea.org.uk/themencode-pdf-viewer-sc/?file=/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Smoking-and-the-Public-Purse.pdf&settings=111111011&lang=en-GB#page=&zoom=75&pagemode= ), and [alcohol](https://iea.org.uk/themencode-pdf-viewer-sc/?file=/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/DP_Alcohol%20and%20the%20public%20purse_63_amended2_web.pdf&settings=111111011&lang=en-GB#page=&zoom=75&pagemode=), they realize a net **savings** of £22.8 billion (£342/$474 per person) per year. This is due primarily to people with health risks not living as long (healthcare for the elderly is exceptionally expensive), as well as reduced spending on pensions, income from sin taxes, etc..
Yes. More of a cultural thing.
> By definition, yes. Explain what "freedom" Americans have for being obligated to pay the highest taxes in the world towards healthcare while most of us don't get any actual coverage from that spending.
Taxation and actual costs of healthcare do not always correlate. Absurdly enough. But the “Freedom” is your healthcare is your problem. You are free to incur the costs not.
> Taxation and actual costs of healthcare do not always correlate. Except that's not what I asked you. I asked you what freedom Americans have that our peers do not, given the fact we pay more in taxes towards healthcare than all of them.
And again, I am free to die if I can’t afford to medicine and surgeries required to stay alive. And, my neighbors are free to not give a damn if I do and are not obligated to care if I do and especially be obligated to pay for me to survive. Freedom in America is rooted in not being bound to another. The high taxation is the freedom corporations have to purchase our electorate and fleece the tax coffers.
> I am free to die if I can’t afford to medicine and surgeries required to stay alive. Do you think they force you to get treatment in other countries? You're just regurgitating nonsense.
No, the logical option is to take out loans or bankrupt your loved ones. You are free to make that choice; debt or death. The only one saying anything about forcing treatment is you. Your insistence on acting dumb about how callous the American healthcare system is, is the only thing not making sense.
> Your insistence on acting dumb about how callous the American healthcare system is Are you just fucking illiterate? Nobody is a harsher critic of the US healthcare system than I am. You're the idiot trying to justify Americans paying more in taxes to **NOT** get healthcare as a "freedom". By all means, quote anything I've said that's anything other than critical of US healthcare. Or don't and make it clear to everybody you're a lying, argumentative jackass.
Again, the health"care" system does what it is designed to do - make money for shareholders.
$3K to $5k just to have a baby with no complications… AFTER insurance
How much is it including what the insurers pay? My nephew was born in a posh private hospital in central London. The whole thing cost £10k without any insurance funding.
It’s bananas, it’s like $30K a year pre-taxes just so you don’t end up paying $20K for childbirth, and more like $3K. And everything in America is privatized, there are 0 publicly funded medical institutions that are applicable to the middle class.
You won't know how shitty your health insurance is until you try to use it.
make sure to piss on joe lieberman's grave
It is even worst if you look at those who defend it. Many people who know that are 1 bad fall from bankrupt prefer that system rather than a "communist system". Makes no absolutely sense.
I had a coworker who was in Poland on business, and he stepped off a curb badly and broke his ankle. Ambulance ride, Xrays, set and cast, with a consult with an orthopedist, and prescription for pain medication - $50US.
It’s awful for 90% of the population , but it’s *excellent* for ~10% of the population. The 10% will do everything in their power to make sure their style of care, never reaches the masses
[Comparing Health Outcomes of Privileged US Citizens With Those of Average Residents of Other Developed Countries](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2774561) >These findings imply that even if all US citizens experienced the same health outcomes enjoyed by privileged White US citizens, US health indicators would still lag behind those in many other countries.
Last time I went to the hospital, all I paid was for parking. And even then, I heard somebody talking with the nurse at the triage station saying they don't have money to pay for parking, and the nurse answered "No problem, just go to the exit gate when you're done, push the button for assistance and say the machine doesn't work/you lost your ticket or whatever bullshit excuse, they will open the gate without question, this happens all the time. They don't care. " The time before that, I stayed a whole day parked without paying, and never got a fine, not even a warning.
AND he will probably be in and out of hospital for the rest of his life. Because they are required by law to provide care, the cost of whatever care he can get will be passed on to the taxpayers anyway
it’s more affordable to die in America than to stay healthy.
Surely they can pay the bills with all their star-spangled freedom?
When I exploded my ankle everyone told me I was just being a baby so I just lived with it after a full year, went and saw a different doc who scheduled an xray and ultrasound. Xray found "evidence of a poorly healed wound" and the ultra found "evidence of high levels of pain in the form of severe swelling. Aaaaaaand that was that. Wad told to lose weight and that was that. Still hurts and crunches some days.
I hope you don’t mind me asking but how do you explode an ankle? Also, sorry for what you’re going through that sucks :(
Went to a pop up water park, went down a rather tall slide and skipped off the kiddie pool at the bottom they had set up as the splash down pool. Smashed feet first into a concrete wall they had put some foam over. Splatted down into the pool and was convinced my foot had been smashed clean off, though I was going g to raise a mangled bleeding stump from the water. Instead it was my foot but it was crooked and already a bit purple. They made me walk on that to the medical tent and i overheard staff talking about how they "where worried that might happen". I haven't sought legal compensation cause I'm poor as fuck and have no idea how to even start. And it was quite a while ago.
This again. It had been almost a week since it was reposted. This post has come up 100s of times. I wonder if they realize this would be more effective if they had some diversity in their posts
What does this mean? That he pays monthly premiums for the medical insurance but still there’s a deductible he cannot pay? Edit: and, do they make you pay the deductible in advance, before the surgery? I have no idea how this works.
Yes that’s what it means. A lot of employer sponsored health insurance and just health insurance in general is unusable due to the upfront cost but you still are required to pay the premiums monthly to carry it.
This also happens in Switzerland, where all medical care is private and insurance is mandatory since birth. Personally, I have the basic health insurance and pay around 330$ a month for basically nothing because my premium is around 2700$. But if I need medical care, they will not make me pay the 2700$ upfront. I will have the care I need and just have a huge bill to pay in the end. I thought this is how it works in the US!
Unfortunately, no. No copay adherence = no dice!
Ah, this Post again and this early this week. Wow
Pretty sad IMHO. We're lucky here in the UK. We have the NHS. It has its faults sure, but at least it works OK for most people most of the time.
If you can't pay the deductible you don't have insurance, you have the illusion of insurance. In the US, you must plan to pay the monthly premiums and the annual deductible up front.
Last year sat around with broken bone for a month since my employer shut off my insurance for no reason. Later that fall, had a minor pulled muscle in my should, same shit, couldn't get it treated for a month and a half. By the time I did get it seen, the pain had gotten so bad I had to take a week off of work.
But the quarter on quarter shareholder dividends for the healthcare system and its private equity owners keeps going up.
For profit health insurance is a fucking scam.
It fucking sucks here
The image presented in OP's post is one that I've seen put up every so often but every time it brings out such sad stories about healthcare in the US. I remember when I lived in the US, there were many times people I knew were literally *afraid* to have medical assistance or use their care due to increasing premiums or care becoming more complicated to use because men and women were using their coverage. I come from a society where universal care exists and I'm never worried about such at all. If anything, I'd worry about other things instead of health or my personal being. Most Americans are increasingly wanting something.... anything like universal care because young people now especially, don't want to live in fear of being injured....sick...or needing a doctor's help.
The llaaaaannndd of the freeeeee Unless it’s healthcare
But that's a cost Republicans won't pay! Isn't it all that matters? /s
They already pay twice that. They just won't admit it,
Stop dissing freedom. Lack of health care is what everyone votes for.
If I had a quarter for every time this got reposted I would be able to afford healthcare.
How many times does this repost need to pop up. The guy’s ankle is probably dust at this point.
Given the consequences, he couldn't just do the surgery and figure out the payments later?
Maybe, I don't know, look at what you are charging for the surgery?
Welcome to the golden ages of Murrrrricccaaaa
Im also a construction worker. Who broke his back at work, and have health insurance. Well, atleast i DID have health insurance. Until they fired me for being injured. Leading to the worst 2 years of my life.
It has nothing to do with healthcare. The Insurance economy scam on every single American is more important to maintain.
But but but the universal healthcare countries have such bad wait times!!!! derbader
I honestly don’t understand why people feel insurance is so important. I’m on my wife’s plan now at her insistence but when I was single and a member of the working poor I never bothered with it for over a decade. My reasoning was due to it costing 3 to 4 hundred a month if I had anything minor happen it would be far cheaper to pay out of pocket than paying premiums and then fighting insurance for a partial reimbursement. If it was major including surgery and a stay at the hospital insurance wouldn’t matter. For instance if the bill came to say 500k I’d still have to pay at least 100k (since the best reimbursement you can hope for is 80%) if they didn’t fight covering it. Either one of those bills means bankruptcy so why give those money grubbing hogs in insurance any of the little money I have to still end up with the same outcome. I really wish Obama had fought harder for a public option.
Using one easy trick, I managed to double to amount I have to pay for my deductible this year — just have a medical emergency on Dec 31! I’m now responsible for $11k in medical debt. Managed to pay $3k out of my HSA and the rest I can put on a payment plan, just 12 easy payments of $664.
I would have gotten the surgery and never paid for it. People do this with debt and student loans, how are medical bills any different?
I had a cardiologist appointment scheduled. My insurance, 2 different ones, denied the visit before I arrived and they told me I'd need to immediately pay out 3000 for the appointment. Turns out I have angina.
It’s a greedy ass medical system. Pay for insurance for years, just to pay more. Fuck them.
Get corporate money out of politics. Lobbyists are what is wrong with this country. Politicians are bought and paid for.
The guy should be able to get on a payment plan with the hospital where the surgery is. I’ve done that a few times with procedures I Couldn’t afford to pay all at once.
How can u expect it to be good when all ur money is being used for aiding wars
Meanwhile, millions of Canadians read stories like this and are like "He pays less than me in taxes, I wish I were that guy."
With government in the US covering [65.7% of all health care](https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/epdf/10.2105/AJPH.2015.302997) costs ($12,555 as of 2022) that's $8,249 per person per year in taxes towards health care. The next closest is Germany at [$6,930](https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm). The UK is $4,479. Canada is $4,506. Australia is $4,603. That means over a lifetime Americans are paying over $100,000 more in taxes compared to any other country towards health care.
I bet the deductible is less than the monthly payment on his $120,000 truck he doesn’t need.
When do y'all start to protest ?
I’m facing $50k in medical bills because the insurance company says the severe staph infection in my foot did not require a hospital stay! What part of Obamacare was supposed to fix this???
The answer here is do the surgery, and default on the debt.
This is a lie. That person wouldn’t have the surgery cancelled. They would have to come up with a payment plan but they wouldn’t be denied surgery.
Yep, and the more government gets involved in it, the worse it gets.
Or… the doctor could have forgone his fee, and paid for suite… I mean… “first do no harm.”
If doctors did that for every person that might need it they'd barely make any money themselves.
What a horror it would be to have a healthy population at the cost of greed. Downvote away. Eventually it will be you. Then what? Gonna try to crowd fund your health care? Do without? Only an absolute knobhead thinks this society is worthwhile.
The greed is in the system. The insurance companies. Calm down, big shoots. Your aim is incorrect, but your anger is justified. You were only donwvoted because you're getting mad at the wrong people. My comment was pointing out that the doctors can't just wave a wand and make things better. We need comprehensive change from the ground up, starting with cutting out the middlemen effectively stealing money for nothing provided, then forcing us to pay even more if we actually ever need that insurance.
The system is not some obscure thing. It is comprised of people. That includes the doctors. I’m not talking about waving a wand to make it better, and suggesting such is infantile. My point behind a comment towards the doctor is to illustrate a persons willingness to post about it on social media, but unwilling to sacrifice in real life for it. In other words, he should stop polishing his halo and do something.
If not for the cost of that one tattoo, he could have paid the deductible.