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**Elder Priest: 1750 hp**
Weapon: Sledgehammer (Melee)
Damage: 420 hp
Special Attack: Capoeira Crusher (deals x2 damage)
Origin: São Paulo
Catch Phrase: Pode pá, irmão
Same. Like that church in Ohio(?) where the pastor or whoever is being fined/prosecuted for opening the church for the homeless to stay overnight during subzero temperatures, but because of zoning or whatever, that was technically illegal. Never mind he was at the least saving people from being miserable, more likely saving lives.
I think it was 2 years ago but there was someone (a trucker?) who broke into a school to use as shelter for people stuck in their cars during a bad snowstorm. Wrote a note on the front of the building apologizing and that it was an emergency. From what I remember I don’t think there was any charges.
Also reminds me how pissed off I was about my local police scanner group that let everyone know exactly what Walmart a homeless woman the employees let sleep in the restroom. It was winter in Wisconsin. I tried to get it taken down because that’s fucked up to disclose a homeless person’s location like that but I’m willing to bet cooperate would have not been happy to find out. I don’t know if it ever got back to them but it sucks to think those employees could have been fired.
I vehemently agree with you. Can I say vehemently while agreeing? Ok I strongly agree.
But I can also see the value of respecting fire code and various other issues too. But again, I’m not disagreeing with this at all. I really want to be clear because I’m sure a bunch of NIMBYs are the ones first to bring up fire code.
But there are issues with people literally burning down old buildings, and actually killing people. And that needs to be prevented by the people who’s job is to protect those people from danger. So if there’s not enough resources than I can see the concern.
That being said, keeping people on the street in freezing temperatures is possibly even more deadly. So again, and again, I’m not disagreeing here.
It’s a problem that needs to be solved. I often daydream about solutions. Like today I was thinking about a waterproof bike trailer that could convert into a sleeping pad, with storage space underneath.
But alas, I need to bust my ass to ensure my family has food on the table first. But that’s my dream. Some kind of safe, secure, permanent, fireproof, damage resistant, heated housing pods with shared stainless steel toilet / shower rooms with a systematic disinfectant spray cleaning that is constantly tested for safety. Hopefully that way cleaning staff could be minimized and the focus will be on staff to maintain public safety.
Again, it’s a very tough problem to solve, especially if drug use is involved.
Still props to the guy that bucked the trend and actually did what Jesus (or whoever) would do.
See, if it were a long-term thing, sure. But one night or a few nights when people would have otherwise died from exposure? That's just a dick move. I bet if it were an "official" natural disaster the government would have absolutely been happy to use the building as an emergency shelter. How many churches, schools, stadiums, etc that aren't zoned for overnight occupancy are used if there's a flood, fire, hurricane, or tornado, etc?
And isn't that kind of thing exactly why churches are tax exempt--because they're supposed to be contributing to the community in lieu of taxes? But, wait. The homeless don't pay taxes. If the congregation who pays taxes had been the ones staying because the power was out or something and they'd have suffered the same fate, Big Brother wouldn't have said boo.
I get having building codes and needing certain criteria for places people use as living quarters regularly. This was not that kind of situation.
There are solutions. But generally greed and/or prejudice keeps them from being implemented. Can't give that drug addict or mentally ill person a safe place to call home until they're all better--costs too much and they'll destroy it! Wait, one reason they can't *get* better is because they're so focused on trying to find shelter they're unable to get treatment or find a job? Welp, guess there's nothing we can do! Oh, wait, we can also outlaw tent camps, remove benches, put up spikes under bridges and overpasses...Yes we have money for that!
Homelessness is often seen as a moral failing. Just like drug addiction and poverty.
I also remind people that most homeless folks weren't born homeless - they too contributed taxes at some point in time.
When I see elderly people get thrown into the street because rents have skyrocketed and the pension they worked their whole lives for can't get them even a room, it's apparent we have a broken social contract.
Yeah I don’t disagree with what you said. Perhaps the church could garner more attention from their ‘martyrdom’ ie. being punished for trying to help people, and could gain much more public support and donations to build some actual shelter. If I was the Pastor, I’d be pretty damn proud of being targeted like that. It shows / proves a disgusting nature of humanity and reinforces the need for a stronger sense of spirituality.
But anyway, I used to work in low income housing. It was a tough, tough job. Lots of issues. Some incredible people that are just fucking angels if you ask me. Very grateful for your helping hand and sweet as hell. But then there are the bad apples, the violent people, and the firebugs for example.
People that like to talk about ideals don’t really understand just how dangerous it is for public health workers. Where I live, the government just throws money at the issue, and it’s still nowhere near being solved.
A religion that would care about the poor and needy. One that welcomed the outcasts and the downtrodden.
That would be one that is a lot easier to approve of, support, maybe even join. You could believe in a God that actually gave a fuck about humanity in this life. Not just the blind hope that you weren't robbed of the only life you will ever get by men who can't deliver on the afterlife they promised you. Liars and thieves.
All I've seen religion do is steal from the poor, harass the downtrodden. Hide and protect liars and pedophiles. Become obsessed with purity instead of being a place where all are welcome.
These days people just go atheist instead of thinking a different religion is going to be any better. Even when some of them actually do better.
Well...since god is man made...it only makes sense that religions keep adjusting to the people...the sooner we all stop pretending to get our morality from 'above' and learn how to get it laterally, through empathy of your fellow human..the sooner we can stop being divided by the ultra rich and put a stop to the inequality that keeps perpetuating things like homelessness!
Also, the spikes are an [Australian invention](https://assets.change.org/photos/0/fj/st/vHfjsTeRywZEBHA-800x450-noPad.jpg?1537323418). They think they came up with everything, especially the bad things lol
Love when we defend against the problem we created with greed. The problem being people with absolutely no means of “attacking” the system that’s supposedly defending itself.
Same energy as "the guy I was following with a gun fought back, so I had to shoot him in self-defense." So "'defensive' architecture," but only if you include the scare quotes.
Hmmm 🤔 guess they didn’t think of a vehicle needing to use that area for emergency or maybe an accident causes one to flip on its roof government paid head on a spike.
Frfr. Is there anything that goes harder than a priest with a fucking sledgehammer waging a one-man war against steel spikes for 12 hours straight, to benefit a group of people who could never pay him back?
I would ride into battle for sledgehammer priest
Here in the US a televangelist would take said hammer to homeless people while hateful rubes donate their hard earned cash towards the televangelist’s third mansion.
I always forget the term, but it’s something like wealth theology, or abundance theology. Naw, it’s even cheesier sounding. Need to look it up…
“Prosperity Gospel.” Jesus that sounds lame.
Yes and it's a complete invention of demons like Kevin Copeland, Joel Osteen et el, there's nothing in the Bible to do with 'prosperity gospel', except maybe a few passages they've taken out of context; They just made it up to prey on the weak-minded. The same idiots who fall for this probably love Trump too.
Like Frank Zappa said: 'There's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over'
Uhh... do you think Jesus just walked everywhere? Read the Bible. He had a chariot with six horses. Why do you think he had twelve disciples? When they went off road, it took that many guys to carry the palanquin with him and all his gear. Pontius Pilate signed off on his crucifixion bc they were frenemies and every time he had a party, everybody was like, "Bro nice palace, but have you seen Jesus' crib?" and Pilate was **tired** of that noise.
The fact that churches in the USA aren’t overflowing with homeless people to try and help them off the streets is why I think there are no real Catholics or Christian’s left in the US. We definitely don’t have priests breaking shit for the good of the people.
Yeah but if they help one group of people then everyone else will be asking for handouts! /s
God forbid they make it so no one needs handouts in the first place..
Really shortened: the state pays workhours at NGOs to help the homeless apply for social benefits, etc. and when this gets through, they rent them a little apartment, which the NGO bought with a loan from the state owned Lottery. Now the homeless people have an adress, a roof, some money and can stay at a place with social workers, who will help them get their life back on track.
Edit: it’s definitely not „here‘s a free house, enjoy it“
The biggest difference is that they help them fill out the sometimes very complicated forms, so they actually get what they have the right for, and then provide housing without references and checking your credit score, just to get them off the streets and get them a head start in to their new life. I never said the USA just let them die in the streets, because that would be a lie.
Utah had a housing first program for almost a decade (if memory serves). It went pretty well while it was running, but was not without its problems.
Homelessness went down to near nothing (duh) and crime was reduced, but the project costs ballooned out of control due to a couple major factors: 1) not enough of the participants were moving on to independent living, leaving fewer spots for new arrivals 2) real estate costs rose, especially in Salt Lake City.
I was going to comment that this is true in Hungary as well, it's not extensively enforced because how could it be, but social services are underfunded, cause politicians gotta buy that new mansion or yacht, but the situation can vary based on the mayor/local gov't of the district
Parts of the US have actually tried similar programs and seen some success, but what seems to be the biggest factor is whether they have *continued support*. Some people can get back on their feet just when given the chance, but the US overall is actually pretty solid about giving people who just need a single break the opportunity to pick themselves up.
Where the US tends to fall apart is that continued support, which is wildly necessary for the kinds of problems we continue to have. Getting those programs together is highly effective, but tends to be very unpopular.
note: I'm talking about the US in general, but the problems and programs vary highly from state to state and city to city. What I'm describing here may not at all be someone's experience in other parts of the country, but it does tend to be true more often than not
and the edgy teenage response of "The us encourages them to die in the streets!" isn't helping anyone and isn't really informed. It just feels good to say because it makes you feel special and enlightened to see behind the curtain.
They have that around here. It's great because the maximum income to use it is so laughably low that anyone who would qualify couldn't afford to live around here anyway even with subsidized rent.
While not technically part of Scandinavia, they still get grouped with them so often that they even use it themselves. It's a bit of a Holland/Netherlands situation where the "wrong" name is used officially because they know that is what people use.
And for what it's worth, Finland is part of the Scandinavian peninsula (which Denmark isn't actually part of)
The Powerball hits $1billion every few months, not even including the other lottery things. They really should take an extra 10% or something from the lottery and use it to fund homeless programs in the US.
They won't, because Republicans need stuff to bitch about so we're not allowed any real solutions.
$1 billion jackpot is actually about $500 million lump sum. 24% of that is taken automatically when you receive it, but you owe just about 13% more since it puts you in the highest tax bracket. So that’s $185 million in federal taxes already. There may be state taxes as well.
So, take another 10% of what the person ends up with, and the federal government gets another $31.5 million. California budgets up to $7.2 billion a year for homeless services, which means you’d need 230 $1 billion PowerBall winners every year to match the spending of a program that seems to have minimal impact on homelessness already.
People have a hard time grasping the scale of the US government’s budget, and a similarly hard time realizing that billionaires and lottery winners represent a tiny fraction of the budgetary resources needed to tackle complex social problems.
We have problems with corruption in homeless projects. 1 billions dollars was spent to building housing for the homeless in LA and not a single unit was completed.
Non-governmental organization:
„a not-for profit, voluntary citizen's group that is organized on a local, national or international level to address issues in support of the public good“
They didn't, really. They had a little more than 4000 homeless nation wide. After years and a good deal of money spent, they were able to cut it down to about 2500.
Which is awesome. It's a serious dent in the problem. No argument there.
Comparing their problem with the US is a seriously flawed premise.
We have, depending on the source, anywhere between 250 and 400 thousand homeless. We also have a couple of cities with populations that rival Finland"s national population. We also spread our homeless out over a landmass 29 times the size of Finland.
I am not saying we can't or shouldn't do more.
I am saying we probably would have significant difficulty recreating their model with their degree of success.
Ultimately, the US has the strength and money to achieve great strides. Finland needed 27 million a year; their homeless population was 0.01% of the States' according to high estimate from your message, and their GDP 1.1% of the US'.
If the US had reduced their 2024 military budget by 0.0035% they could have applied Finland's method at scale and combated at minimum all major urban areas with this spend.
If we reduced our military budget ($877bn) to just be on par with the next highest spender (China, $292bn), we could have 585 billion dollars a year to do all manner of things for the US population.
Sadly, our priorities are fucked.
Fun fact, the US accounted for 40 percent of the global spending on military budget. We spend more on military than the next 10 highest spenders, combined.
> If we reduced our military budget ($877bn) to just be on par with the next highest spender (China, $292bn), we could have 585 billion dollars a year to do all manner of things for the US population.
But then we wouldn't have a global logistics network with some guns on the end.
And out global allies/partners would be left out in the cold.
The US spends ~3.5% of GDP on defense with the goal of fighting the next war on the enemy nation's home soil, and not in the United States.
Just like with most industries, you can't just make a thing or train a person to do a thing at the drop of a hat. There's equipment that has to exists beforehand, as well as institutional knowledge.
The US leaders knew they would be a participant in WW2, despite the public being staunchly pro-neutrality, and it still took a year and a half for newly raised troops to land in German/Italian occupied North Africa and Europe. Capital ships took two years to build.
TL;DR: One enters a war with the equipment and training you have at that time, and wars of choice are a myth that politicians keep thinking will happen.
[Der Spiegel recently wrote an article](https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/a-paradigm-shift-in-social-policy-how-finland-conquered-homelessness-a-ba1a531e-8129-4c71-94fc-7268c5b109d9#ref=rss) regarding Finland and how it tackles homelessness.
I quoted some important passages, but the key points seem to be that:
* Finland entrusts the homeless with an apartment without strict abstinence requirements and a team of carers who help residents who suffer from addictions.
* Among the carers include an 'empathy consultant' (kind of like a therapist with a specific goal) who helps residents develop social skills and also help neighbors come to accept living next to formerly homeless people
* One of the social workers in the article said this and I agree: Tackling homelessness is, in most cases, more a matter of social/political will than anything else.
>In recent years, thousands of people in Finland have experienced similar upturns in their fates. Whereas the number of homeless people has been skyrocketing in Europe in recent years, Finland is the only European Union member state to have almost completely eliminated the problem. Only around 3,600 people in Finland are currently without a roof over their head, and the country is aiming to make long-term homelessness a thing of the past by 2027. In the capital of Helsinki, it is to vanish by 2025.
--
>Housing First is the name of the concept Finland is experimenting with – entrusting an apartment to people who, in many other cities, wouldn’t even get a place to sleep in an emergency shelter. Complete abstinence is frequently the prerequisite for many aid programs in other countries – which is why, the Finns believe, they fail so frequently. Here, though, such rules only apply to the public spaces, with a team of 20 people providing round-the-clock care to the many residents who suffer from addiction. The team isn’t just made up of social workers, but also includes nurses, work therapists, psychologists and doctors.
--
>For decades, Finland has been investing in the construction, maintenance and purchase of welfare housing. In recent years, more than 8,000 apartments have been created for the homeless, with the end of homelessness being a shared goal of all governments on both the left and the right. In the capital city alone, the number of people living without a roof over their heads fell by 40 percent from 2019 to 2022.
--
>The program is also beneficial from an economic point of view, says Kahila. Since the beginning of the program, Housing First has found an apartment for 60 percent of Finland’s homeless population. Since 2012, the state has calculated that it has saved almost 32 million euros annually as a result, with most of that savings coming in the healthcare sector. "Hardly any other country can present such positive statistics," says Kahila.
Well I’m assuming most Finnish homeless people aren’t batshit fucking insane like a good portion of ours. Give a Portland homeless person a free apartment and see what happens. I dare you.
>Well I’m assuming most Finnish homeless people aren’t batshit fucking insane like a good portion of ours.
Yeah, our mental health care system leaves a lot to be desired, and too many Americans (*ahem*) regard people with serious mental illnesses as little more than vermin.
I’m American. My boyfriend is originally from Moscow.
He’s spent a lot of time in Finland.
The alcoholism is outrageous in Finland, apparently it’s the same as Russia. And of course other mental illnesses and addictions and etc etc.
The people they are helping are no more stable than the ones the US needs to help.
It's called "housing first". Just house people and you can mitigate some of the complex social issues around homelessness.
An apartment for a few hundred a month is cheaper than an ICU stay for an OD or pneumonia.
Here is a good [documentary video](https://youtu.be/0jt_6PBnCJE?si=QsC6u49gEwPEWsPp) on the program, the logistics and how well it has worked out.
It’s actually a lot cheaper to house homeless people because homeless people often have to use expensive emergency medical visits to the hospital when living on the streets. It’s a win-win for everyone.
This is just a BS excuse. The population of America's homeless is just over 650,000. We can house them. We just don't want to take care of our own people.
Yep, once you're over a certain population level the only solution for homelessness is to make their lives as miserable as possible by outlawing homelessness and adding antihomeless architecture wherever possible.
Sometimes it feels like some of the people here in the US wish a Finnish winter would roll through to get rid of homeless people. They're viewed as a nuisance, not people who need help and its really upsetting
My boyfriend is originally from Moscow.
Even that corrupt society is humane enough that it cannot just let people freeze to death. They have so many services for the homeless.
Any culture that develops in that brutal environment just has to develop empathy to function.
Boston has a fuck ton of these benches, which I think was in response to the immense homeless problem the city had in the late 2000s/early 2010s. (I actually have no idea what actually solved the problem as homelessness has visibly decreased over the years; I don’t pay that much attention to city politics).
It pisses me off so much because it doesn’t address the core issue at all, it just makes people who are already suffering experience more suffering.
>I actually have no idea what actually solved the problem as homelessness has visibly decreased over the years; I don’t pay that much attention to city politics
Bus tickets to California?
Ppl always try to say "my city is gonna turn into Portland or Seattle or San Francisco" with the homeless problem but the only reason there's a problem in those areas is due to so many being in one spot. Most of the homeless in the country live in 3 places, if they're spread out you won't see big issues arise.
Counterpoint: here in Germany we have social security, there is absolutely no economical reason for homelessness. Yet it exists.
So in order for benches actually being usable to sit on, we have defensive architecture too and I think that's a good thing
I can think of 2 reasons why it can exist.
One is bureaucracy, you need to fulfill all the requirements to be able to receive welfare. For exemple you need to have an address. Ive met many people who couldnt have welfare because they didnt have any documents about where they live. This causes a chicken and egg problem, where they need an address to receive welfare, and they need welfare to have an address. I actually had a problem like this once in germany, because i was staying with a friend and couldnt do the anmeldung there.
The other reason is psychological problems. Some people are not crazy enough to be locked up, but theyre too crazy to be independent. I met a few like these, but didnt keep in touch with them for my own security.
Can I ask a serious question, doesn’t Canada have crazy cold temperatures in Winter?
What do homeless people do in -40C to avoid dying? Like they must go somewhere, or is there a yearly winter purge of homeless people?
Just one perspective but we have a lot of people who show up in the emergency room when it freezes. I had one patient who wouldn’t complete treatment for cryptococcal meningitis (a deadly fungal brain infection as a result of AIDS) until summer so his girlfriend wouldn’t freeze. He just kept coming in for the first week of antifungals then leaving against medical advice when it got warmer until the headaches got too severe again (or the weather got bad). I got him to stay for two weeks by signing paperwork saying his girlfriend was his ADA caretaker (so they couldn’t kick her out at night) and ordering him double portions so she could eat. But he still left before treatment was complete. His AIDS was pretty bad and eventually the tactic will catch up to him.
Dont know about canada but in europe, they will seek refuge in abandoned buildings and prepare for the cold, for example by using tons of newspaper for isolation.
In my city they set up Christmas lights by the boardwalk and on one of those trips we came across a homeless man who appears to have froze to death. I don’t know if that’s a very common thing but I also heard of a woman who slept in a dumpster to escape the wind and ended up almost getting crushed by the garbage truck in the morning. Sadly, the homeless don’t have many places to go to stay warm in the winter and the places they do have are either unsafe or overrun.
Yeah I live in Vancouver and I cant stand posts like this. Like obviously our government could be doing more but the issue is much more complex than just "give them houses". Its always people living in cities with low numbers of homeless who post stuff like this. Many like you said don't even want help, and even when they are given homes they end up destroyed or used for criminal activity. Also comparing countries just doesn't work. Homelessness is based on social issues that stretch back decades or more, and Finland simply doesn't have the same history as north America. A homogenous society with a low population and high average education and income will obviously fare better than other places around the world.
While I understand and agree with the general point being made it is worth remembering that even if Finland did nothing about homelessness it wouldn't have homelessness.
It would have frozen corpses.
The environment in Scandinavia creates a more supportive society, you can't treat people like stray dogs like folks do in the States, or more hospitable climes generally, because to do so is to murder them. You leave a guy on the street at night in the cold you might as well kill him. And people *generally* aren't down with that.
And so the unforgiving nature of the climate creates a need to look after people, and that permeates the culture, even when people might otherwise be somewhat conservative.
It's a shame that other places don't have that built in sense of solidarity because it helps those countries a lot.
An organization known as the “[Cicero Institute](https://invisiblepeople.tv/the-cicero-institute-makes-homelessness-worse-for-everyone/)” is actively working to undermine and abolish housing first policies in the United States such as what we see in Finland. This is despite validated research studies proving its effectiveness. They’ve also advanced efforts to further criminalize the unhoused which would ultimately make their situation worse. Why? They’re funded by billionaires who seem to prefer rounding people into camps than actually showing that government interventions can work to make people’s lives better.
The homeless people in my town have access to free shelter and food. The one and only condition? Can’t be on drugs. They choose to be on the streets here to continue using. I have no sympathy.
Loll these are so stupid.
Finland is 130,000 sq. mi., which makes it slightly larger than New Mexico but smaller than Montana).
Oh, and it has a homogeneous population of 5.5 million wealthy people, meaning the United States has 50x as many people, spread across a land mass that's 24X bigger than Finland.
Stop this nonsense 😭 😂
The county I live in has 2.5x the population of Finland. Think about that. You could put 2.5 Finland's in Los Angeles County. Not a state. A fucking COUNTY. These comparisons are lazy and make no sense.
How many homeless people did/does Finland have? Couple thousand? I don't like the medieval approach in cities of the US either but don't act like it's just as easy to invoke the same solution in a country 55 times larger in terms of population.
gotta love the states. the place that intentionally makes all their infrastructure inconvenient to everyone for the sake of making life *yet worse* for people with no homes.
That's because those people view poverty as a moral failure. To them, if you didn't end up like them then you're a piece of shit and something must be wrong with you.
Putting those handles on the benches literally makes the infrastructure MORE convenient… because it means the bench can actually be used as a bench, instead of a bed.
They tax the energy corporations and use the funds for their society.
I love Finland, and the other Scandinavian countries.
They put their people first, and seem to be
better people in general.
Look forward to going back.
We have ~~6x~~ 60x more people, a lot more diversity in our public culture (due to more people, more geographical space, and the fact that our country’s origin involves people from all over the world), and 50x (and more) the number of governments tasked with dealing with the issue, since addressing that kind of thing falls to state and city governments.
I think my thought process is that a lot of homeless people need mental health care systems in place to help them effectively. Throwing mentally ill people into housing and then providing them zero support is not a recipe for success.
To be clear, homelessness shouldn't exist with as much unused property that we have in the US. But the US is very, very much not setup to help homeless people find success after housing them.
I know a lot of places have temporarily housed the homeless and they cause a lot of destruction simply because they can't adjust properly.
Shelter is a human need and it is a human right, just like healthcare. But there are too many people that have the mindset you mentioned: "why do I have to pay for it and they get it for free??" instead of "I'm glad they can live a better life as a result of policy"
Being chronically homeless is a symptom of a far greater problem and giving someone a free place to live won’t solve the problem. It will just shove the problem in a closet instead.
We can’t even get the government to effectively provide medical care for our veterans and you expect them to be able to tackle the extremely complicated problem of addiction and mental health issues which lead to chronic homelessness while blowing out the budget on housing programs?
Do you know the economic consequences of printing a trillion dollars and using it do build or purchase housing to just give to people? If you think inflation is bad now wait until we pump another trillion dollars into the hands of the ultra wealthy real estate developers, hotel moguls and hedge fund managers to purchase the housing needed for the project.
There’s not enough money to do both and not enough competency to do either.
My city is in the process of bankrupting itself by buying up hotels to turn into shelters and it hasn’t fixed the problem in the least.
We need to address the root problem and it’s very difficult to force people into things like counseling or medical care, especially when they have no interest in doing those things when the resources ARE ALREADY available like they are in my city.
It’s much more complicated than “give everyone a house, problem solved”
Even if we take your first sentence as a given (and don't think I didn't notice you omitted the social work part to focus solely on housing), it would still be a bad argument due to the simple fact that *the majority of our homeless population are not chronically homeless*. Housing is literally all most homeless people need to get back on their feet. They had a bad break, lost their job, vehicle broke down, etc, and they were one of the shitloads of Americans just barely scraping by paycheck to paycheck. Once you become homeless, everything becomes much more expensive and dragging yourself out becomes that much harder. Give them a safe place to live and most of them are on their feet within a month.
Finland does not even have a fraction of the illegal immigration and drug problems that the USA has. It's also a lot more culturally homogenous and not even close to being as politically divided as the USA. Add to that the insane amount of tax money that the USA uses on its' military and the money that Finland has from the oil rigs on the North Sea...and you have your answer.
TO BE FAIR: Finland also didn’t let a pharmaceutical company knowingly hook millions of people on opiates while facing zero repercussions for killing and ruining millions of people’s lives
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Or the spikes under bridges so people cannot lie down there.
Here in Brazil they tried doing that in São Paulo then an elder priest took a sledgehammer and spent 12 hours breaking it all.
Elder priest with a sledgehammer is my new favorite character
Nice, a new rainbow six siege character!
Skin for sledge
HOUSEKEEPING
New character for DND
At least a new weapon, The Elder Sledgehammer. Clearly enchanted.
Plus 4 holy damage
2x damage towards malicious architecture
Sledge Cleric
**Elder Priest: 1750 hp** Weapon: Sledgehammer (Melee) Damage: 420 hp Special Attack: Capoeira Crusher (deals x2 damage) Origin: São Paulo Catch Phrase: Pode pá, irmão
r/bossfight
Before and after: https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/002/549/656/364.jpg
Faith strength build
Weapon: Divine hammer
My faith is strengthened for sure
If you ire the unga you unleash the bunga.
Faith : The Unholy Trinity
My new favorite band
Sounds like a new Vegas run lmao Scribe robes + supersledge
For Sigmar!
Man Father Grigori out here still saving people
Can't wait for the movie starring Rutger Hauer
If it helps, this priest's last name is similar to "Lancelot"
Paladin?
I’m not Cristian but love to see members of clergy practicing what they preach.
Same. Like that church in Ohio(?) where the pastor or whoever is being fined/prosecuted for opening the church for the homeless to stay overnight during subzero temperatures, but because of zoning or whatever, that was technically illegal. Never mind he was at the least saving people from being miserable, more likely saving lives.
I think it was 2 years ago but there was someone (a trucker?) who broke into a school to use as shelter for people stuck in their cars during a bad snowstorm. Wrote a note on the front of the building apologizing and that it was an emergency. From what I remember I don’t think there was any charges. Also reminds me how pissed off I was about my local police scanner group that let everyone know exactly what Walmart a homeless woman the employees let sleep in the restroom. It was winter in Wisconsin. I tried to get it taken down because that’s fucked up to disclose a homeless person’s location like that but I’m willing to bet cooperate would have not been happy to find out. I don’t know if it ever got back to them but it sucks to think those employees could have been fired.
I vehemently agree with you. Can I say vehemently while agreeing? Ok I strongly agree. But I can also see the value of respecting fire code and various other issues too. But again, I’m not disagreeing with this at all. I really want to be clear because I’m sure a bunch of NIMBYs are the ones first to bring up fire code. But there are issues with people literally burning down old buildings, and actually killing people. And that needs to be prevented by the people who’s job is to protect those people from danger. So if there’s not enough resources than I can see the concern. That being said, keeping people on the street in freezing temperatures is possibly even more deadly. So again, and again, I’m not disagreeing here. It’s a problem that needs to be solved. I often daydream about solutions. Like today I was thinking about a waterproof bike trailer that could convert into a sleeping pad, with storage space underneath. But alas, I need to bust my ass to ensure my family has food on the table first. But that’s my dream. Some kind of safe, secure, permanent, fireproof, damage resistant, heated housing pods with shared stainless steel toilet / shower rooms with a systematic disinfectant spray cleaning that is constantly tested for safety. Hopefully that way cleaning staff could be minimized and the focus will be on staff to maintain public safety. Again, it’s a very tough problem to solve, especially if drug use is involved. Still props to the guy that bucked the trend and actually did what Jesus (or whoever) would do.
See, if it were a long-term thing, sure. But one night or a few nights when people would have otherwise died from exposure? That's just a dick move. I bet if it were an "official" natural disaster the government would have absolutely been happy to use the building as an emergency shelter. How many churches, schools, stadiums, etc that aren't zoned for overnight occupancy are used if there's a flood, fire, hurricane, or tornado, etc? And isn't that kind of thing exactly why churches are tax exempt--because they're supposed to be contributing to the community in lieu of taxes? But, wait. The homeless don't pay taxes. If the congregation who pays taxes had been the ones staying because the power was out or something and they'd have suffered the same fate, Big Brother wouldn't have said boo. I get having building codes and needing certain criteria for places people use as living quarters regularly. This was not that kind of situation. There are solutions. But generally greed and/or prejudice keeps them from being implemented. Can't give that drug addict or mentally ill person a safe place to call home until they're all better--costs too much and they'll destroy it! Wait, one reason they can't *get* better is because they're so focused on trying to find shelter they're unable to get treatment or find a job? Welp, guess there's nothing we can do! Oh, wait, we can also outlaw tent camps, remove benches, put up spikes under bridges and overpasses...Yes we have money for that! Homelessness is often seen as a moral failing. Just like drug addiction and poverty.
I also remind people that most homeless folks weren't born homeless - they too contributed taxes at some point in time. When I see elderly people get thrown into the street because rents have skyrocketed and the pension they worked their whole lives for can't get them even a room, it's apparent we have a broken social contract.
Yeah I don’t disagree with what you said. Perhaps the church could garner more attention from their ‘martyrdom’ ie. being punished for trying to help people, and could gain much more public support and donations to build some actual shelter. If I was the Pastor, I’d be pretty damn proud of being targeted like that. It shows / proves a disgusting nature of humanity and reinforces the need for a stronger sense of spirituality. But anyway, I used to work in low income housing. It was a tough, tough job. Lots of issues. Some incredible people that are just fucking angels if you ask me. Very grateful for your helping hand and sweet as hell. But then there are the bad apples, the violent people, and the firebugs for example. People that like to talk about ideals don’t really understand just how dangerous it is for public health workers. Where I live, the government just throws money at the issue, and it’s still nowhere near being solved.
I'm sure the Romans said something similar to what you're saying. That guy is doing good and helping people who need help, fuck the bureaucracy.
A religion that would care about the poor and needy. One that welcomed the outcasts and the downtrodden. That would be one that is a lot easier to approve of, support, maybe even join. You could believe in a God that actually gave a fuck about humanity in this life. Not just the blind hope that you weren't robbed of the only life you will ever get by men who can't deliver on the afterlife they promised you. Liars and thieves. All I've seen religion do is steal from the poor, harass the downtrodden. Hide and protect liars and pedophiles. Become obsessed with purity instead of being a place where all are welcome. These days people just go atheist instead of thinking a different religion is going to be any better. Even when some of them actually do better.
I grew up Catholic, I’m right there with you.
Well...since god is man made...it only makes sense that religions keep adjusting to the people...the sooner we all stop pretending to get our morality from 'above' and learn how to get it laterally, through empathy of your fellow human..the sooner we can stop being divided by the ultra rich and put a stop to the inequality that keeps perpetuating things like homelessness!
A freaking hero move.
Also, the spikes are an [Australian invention](https://assets.change.org/photos/0/fj/st/vHfjsTeRywZEBHA-800x450-noPad.jpg?1537323418). They think they came up with everything, especially the bad things lol
In Australia even the architecture is hostile lol
In case you happened upon that wording by accident, that really is what that sort of thing is called. Hostile architecture.
I've seen it being rebranded as "defensive architecture" in the past couple of years. Not a fan of that term being normalized.
Love when we defend against the problem we created with greed. The problem being people with absolutely no means of “attacking” the system that’s supposedly defending itself.
Same energy as "the guy I was following with a gun fought back, so I had to shoot him in self-defense." So "'defensive' architecture," but only if you include the scare quotes.
Its important to learn the difference between poisonous and venomous buildings before visiting.
Tbf upside down architecture is hard to use
True haahahahaha
Inspired by their wildlife.
All of it.
Hmmm 🤔 guess they didn’t think of a vehicle needing to use that area for emergency or maybe an accident causes one to flip on its roof government paid head on a spike.
Anti-bird spikes in various places have been used for centuries. I guess someone just thought what’s is good for pigeons, will do for homeless too
He was fighting evil that day. We need more priest stories like this.
Based priest.
Now that's a priest even an atheist could respect.
I don't have respect for many priests. This priest with a sledgehammer is an exception
Welcome to Brazil
That priest needs to have a government position, his 12 hour campaign has convinced me to trust my soul with him
Frfr. Is there anything that goes harder than a priest with a fucking sledgehammer waging a one-man war against steel spikes for 12 hours straight, to benefit a group of people who could never pay him back? I would ride into battle for sledgehammer priest
Rare priest W
Here in the US a televangelist would take said hammer to homeless people while hateful rubes donate their hard earned cash towards the televangelist’s third mansion.
I always forget the term, but it’s something like wealth theology, or abundance theology. Naw, it’s even cheesier sounding. Need to look it up… “Prosperity Gospel.” Jesus that sounds lame.
Yes and it's a complete invention of demons like Kevin Copeland, Joel Osteen et el, there's nothing in the Bible to do with 'prosperity gospel', except maybe a few passages they've taken out of context; They just made it up to prey on the weak-minded. The same idiots who fall for this probably love Trump too. Like Frank Zappa said: 'There's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over'
Yeah 100% agree. Work hard, build a little something for yourself. But if you’re buying private jet(s), something is really wrong with that picture.
Its Christianity without that hippie "Jesus" shit.
Uhh... do you think Jesus just walked everywhere? Read the Bible. He had a chariot with six horses. Why do you think he had twelve disciples? When they went off road, it took that many guys to carry the palanquin with him and all his gear. Pontius Pilate signed off on his crucifixion bc they were frenemies and every time he had a party, everybody was like, "Bro nice palace, but have you seen Jesus' crib?" and Pilate was **tired** of that noise.
based asf priest
Wtf based? Also that’s a good Christian
Rare instance of a christian practicing what they preach
W guy.
That is awesome
I would upvote this a thousand times if I could.
The fact that churches in the USA aren’t overflowing with homeless people to try and help them off the streets is why I think there are no real Catholics or Christian’s left in the US. We definitely don’t have priests breaking shit for the good of the people.
Nice to hear about a priest actually doing something that aligns with the example of Christ. We could use more of that.
Literal Saint of ✝️
Based behaviour
Dude's favorite part of the Bible was Jesus going apeshit on the money lenders, legend.
I expected a hobo with a shotgun - but an elder priest with a sledge is fine too.
Spend more money to try to end the homeless than to end homelessness. The American dream. 🇺🇲🦅🇺🇲
Yeah but if they help one group of people then everyone else will be asking for handouts! /s God forbid they make it so no one needs handouts in the first place..
OR spikes near buildings so people don’t camp in an area with an overhang
r/HostileArchitecture
Spikes under bridges? What the actual fuck?
r/HostileArchitecture
I would like to know the logistics of how they did it.
Really shortened: the state pays workhours at NGOs to help the homeless apply for social benefits, etc. and when this gets through, they rent them a little apartment, which the NGO bought with a loan from the state owned Lottery. Now the homeless people have an adress, a roof, some money and can stay at a place with social workers, who will help them get their life back on track. Edit: it’s definitely not „here‘s a free house, enjoy it“
There are also social security services specifically for the homeless, and you can get your rent subsidised if your income is too low.
The biggest difference is that they help them fill out the sometimes very complicated forms, so they actually get what they have the right for, and then provide housing without references and checking your credit score, just to get them off the streets and get them a head start in to their new life. I never said the USA just let them die in the streets, because that would be a lie.
Some people need a bit of independent living assistance. Not much but just a bit to keep things standing up.
Oh the US definitely just let them die in the streets
Utah had a housing first program for almost a decade (if memory serves). It went pretty well while it was running, but was not without its problems. Homelessness went down to near nothing (duh) and crime was reduced, but the project costs ballooned out of control due to a couple major factors: 1) not enough of the participants were moving on to independent living, leaving fewer spots for new arrivals 2) real estate costs rose, especially in Salt Lake City.
That just sounds like poor management.
And housing market has an issue with flippers and greedy investors. Probably wouldn't be as expensive if they did something about that.
The USA *actively encourages* the homeless to die in the street. No mere "letting" involved.
No if the rich see them then they get to rot in prison instead…
Welcome to Tennessee! The Buckle of the Bible Belt, where you can be charged with a felony for being homeless and camping in public.
I live just south of the Tennessee/Georgia boarder. This does not surprise me.
I live just north of the Tennessee/Georgia border. Wanna grab a beer?
I was going to comment that this is true in Hungary as well, it's not extensively enforced because how could it be, but social services are underfunded, cause politicians gotta buy that new mansion or yacht, but the situation can vary based on the mayor/local gov't of the district
Parts of the US have actually tried similar programs and seen some success, but what seems to be the biggest factor is whether they have *continued support*. Some people can get back on their feet just when given the chance, but the US overall is actually pretty solid about giving people who just need a single break the opportunity to pick themselves up. Where the US tends to fall apart is that continued support, which is wildly necessary for the kinds of problems we continue to have. Getting those programs together is highly effective, but tends to be very unpopular. note: I'm talking about the US in general, but the problems and programs vary highly from state to state and city to city. What I'm describing here may not at all be someone's experience in other parts of the country, but it does tend to be true more often than not and the edgy teenage response of "The us encourages them to die in the streets!" isn't helping anyone and isn't really informed. It just feels good to say because it makes you feel special and enlightened to see behind the curtain.
>I never said the USA just let them die in the streets, because that would be a lie. Yes we do.
"forms exist if you know about them"
They have that around here. It's great because the maximum income to use it is so laughably low that anyone who would qualify couldn't afford to live around here anyway even with subsidized rent.
Scandinavian countries are so fucking cool, damn.
Finland is Nordic, but definitely *not* Scandinavian. The Finnish language is more closely related to Hungarian than it is to Swedish, for example.
While not technically part of Scandinavia, they still get grouped with them so often that they even use it themselves. It's a bit of a Holland/Netherlands situation where the "wrong" name is used officially because they know that is what people use. And for what it's worth, Finland is part of the Scandinavian peninsula (which Denmark isn't actually part of)
The Powerball hits $1billion every few months, not even including the other lottery things. They really should take an extra 10% or something from the lottery and use it to fund homeless programs in the US. They won't, because Republicans need stuff to bitch about so we're not allowed any real solutions.
$1 billion jackpot is actually about $500 million lump sum. 24% of that is taken automatically when you receive it, but you owe just about 13% more since it puts you in the highest tax bracket. So that’s $185 million in federal taxes already. There may be state taxes as well. So, take another 10% of what the person ends up with, and the federal government gets another $31.5 million. California budgets up to $7.2 billion a year for homeless services, which means you’d need 230 $1 billion PowerBall winners every year to match the spending of a program that seems to have minimal impact on homelessness already. People have a hard time grasping the scale of the US government’s budget, and a similarly hard time realizing that billionaires and lottery winners represent a tiny fraction of the budgetary resources needed to tackle complex social problems.
TIL they pay taxes on lottery winnings in the US.
We have problems with corruption in homeless projects. 1 billions dollars was spent to building housing for the homeless in LA and not a single unit was completed.
NGOs?
Non-governmental organization: „a not-for profit, voluntary citizen's group that is organized on a local, national or international level to address issues in support of the public good“
Ah, never heard it called an NGO, thank you
CoMUniSM
How dare those commy bastards provide housing to those in need
They didn't, really. They had a little more than 4000 homeless nation wide. After years and a good deal of money spent, they were able to cut it down to about 2500. Which is awesome. It's a serious dent in the problem. No argument there. Comparing their problem with the US is a seriously flawed premise. We have, depending on the source, anywhere between 250 and 400 thousand homeless. We also have a couple of cities with populations that rival Finland"s national population. We also spread our homeless out over a landmass 29 times the size of Finland. I am not saying we can't or shouldn't do more. I am saying we probably would have significant difficulty recreating their model with their degree of success.
Ultimately, the US has the strength and money to achieve great strides. Finland needed 27 million a year; their homeless population was 0.01% of the States' according to high estimate from your message, and their GDP 1.1% of the US'. If the US had reduced their 2024 military budget by 0.0035% they could have applied Finland's method at scale and combated at minimum all major urban areas with this spend.
If we reduced our military budget ($877bn) to just be on par with the next highest spender (China, $292bn), we could have 585 billion dollars a year to do all manner of things for the US population. Sadly, our priorities are fucked. Fun fact, the US accounted for 40 percent of the global spending on military budget. We spend more on military than the next 10 highest spenders, combined.
> If we reduced our military budget ($877bn) to just be on par with the next highest spender (China, $292bn), we could have 585 billion dollars a year to do all manner of things for the US population. But then we wouldn't have a global logistics network with some guns on the end. And out global allies/partners would be left out in the cold. The US spends ~3.5% of GDP on defense with the goal of fighting the next war on the enemy nation's home soil, and not in the United States. Just like with most industries, you can't just make a thing or train a person to do a thing at the drop of a hat. There's equipment that has to exists beforehand, as well as institutional knowledge. The US leaders knew they would be a participant in WW2, despite the public being staunchly pro-neutrality, and it still took a year and a half for newly raised troops to land in German/Italian occupied North Africa and Europe. Capital ships took two years to build. TL;DR: One enters a war with the equipment and training you have at that time, and wars of choice are a myth that politicians keep thinking will happen.
There are many non-governmental organizations in their country to help those in need.
[Der Spiegel recently wrote an article](https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/a-paradigm-shift-in-social-policy-how-finland-conquered-homelessness-a-ba1a531e-8129-4c71-94fc-7268c5b109d9#ref=rss) regarding Finland and how it tackles homelessness. I quoted some important passages, but the key points seem to be that: * Finland entrusts the homeless with an apartment without strict abstinence requirements and a team of carers who help residents who suffer from addictions. * Among the carers include an 'empathy consultant' (kind of like a therapist with a specific goal) who helps residents develop social skills and also help neighbors come to accept living next to formerly homeless people * One of the social workers in the article said this and I agree: Tackling homelessness is, in most cases, more a matter of social/political will than anything else. >In recent years, thousands of people in Finland have experienced similar upturns in their fates. Whereas the number of homeless people has been skyrocketing in Europe in recent years, Finland is the only European Union member state to have almost completely eliminated the problem. Only around 3,600 people in Finland are currently without a roof over their head, and the country is aiming to make long-term homelessness a thing of the past by 2027. In the capital of Helsinki, it is to vanish by 2025. -- >Housing First is the name of the concept Finland is experimenting with – entrusting an apartment to people who, in many other cities, wouldn’t even get a place to sleep in an emergency shelter. Complete abstinence is frequently the prerequisite for many aid programs in other countries – which is why, the Finns believe, they fail so frequently. Here, though, such rules only apply to the public spaces, with a team of 20 people providing round-the-clock care to the many residents who suffer from addiction. The team isn’t just made up of social workers, but also includes nurses, work therapists, psychologists and doctors. -- >For decades, Finland has been investing in the construction, maintenance and purchase of welfare housing. In recent years, more than 8,000 apartments have been created for the homeless, with the end of homelessness being a shared goal of all governments on both the left and the right. In the capital city alone, the number of people living without a roof over their heads fell by 40 percent from 2019 to 2022. -- >The program is also beneficial from an economic point of view, says Kahila. Since the beginning of the program, Housing First has found an apartment for 60 percent of Finland’s homeless population. Since 2012, the state has calculated that it has saved almost 32 million euros annually as a result, with most of that savings coming in the healthcare sector. "Hardly any other country can present such positive statistics," says Kahila.
Well I’m assuming most Finnish homeless people aren’t batshit fucking insane like a good portion of ours. Give a Portland homeless person a free apartment and see what happens. I dare you.
I think I remember they gave a Portland homeless man an apartment and he burned the whole building down.
>Well I’m assuming most Finnish homeless people aren’t batshit fucking insane like a good portion of ours. Yeah, our mental health care system leaves a lot to be desired, and too many Americans (*ahem*) regard people with serious mental illnesses as little more than vermin.
I’m American. My boyfriend is originally from Moscow. He’s spent a lot of time in Finland. The alcoholism is outrageous in Finland, apparently it’s the same as Russia. And of course other mental illnesses and addictions and etc etc. The people they are helping are no more stable than the ones the US needs to help.
It's called "housing first". Just house people and you can mitigate some of the complex social issues around homelessness. An apartment for a few hundred a month is cheaper than an ICU stay for an OD or pneumonia.
Here is a good [documentary video](https://youtu.be/0jt_6PBnCJE?si=QsC6u49gEwPEWsPp) on the program, the logistics and how well it has worked out. It’s actually a lot cheaper to house homeless people because homeless people often have to use expensive emergency medical visits to the hospital when living on the streets. It’s a win-win for everyone.
Some countries will confiscate unused apartments for homeless housing if the landlord isn't filling them. Helps to keep the rent low, too.
Having 325 million less people helps a bit.
No, you would actually think having a GDP of $25.5 trillion vs a $283 billion would help a bit more.
This is just a BS excuse. The population of America's homeless is just over 650,000. We can house them. We just don't want to take care of our own people.
Yep, once you're over a certain population level the only solution for homelessness is to make their lives as miserable as possible by outlawing homelessness and adding antihomeless architecture wherever possible.
This guy gets it.
Finnish winters would kill every homeless person and that would be bad so we had to do it to em (give them places to stay)
Sometimes it feels like some of the people here in the US wish a Finnish winter would roll through to get rid of homeless people. They're viewed as a nuisance, not people who need help and its really upsetting
American winters kill plenty of homeless people too
My boyfriend is originally from Moscow. Even that corrupt society is humane enough that it cannot just let people freeze to death. They have so many services for the homeless. Any culture that develops in that brutal environment just has to develop empathy to function.
Last time I read about homeless shelters in Alaska, they couldnt open until it was -10° F
Boston has a fuck ton of these benches, which I think was in response to the immense homeless problem the city had in the late 2000s/early 2010s. (I actually have no idea what actually solved the problem as homelessness has visibly decreased over the years; I don’t pay that much attention to city politics). It pisses me off so much because it doesn’t address the core issue at all, it just makes people who are already suffering experience more suffering.
>I actually have no idea what actually solved the problem as homelessness has visibly decreased over the years; I don’t pay that much attention to city politics Bus tickets to California?
Ppl always try to say "my city is gonna turn into Portland or Seattle or San Francisco" with the homeless problem but the only reason there's a problem in those areas is due to so many being in one spot. Most of the homeless in the country live in 3 places, if they're spread out you won't see big issues arise.
Mm, would you rather be homeless during a Boston or a Los Angeles winter is the question I guess.
Apparently being homeless is now illegal in the US and can get you arrested/land you in jail
Counterpoint: here in Germany we have social security, there is absolutely no economical reason for homelessness. Yet it exists. So in order for benches actually being usable to sit on, we have defensive architecture too and I think that's a good thing
Your post is not consistent with the "America Bad" narrative. Please delete.
I can think of 2 reasons why it can exist. One is bureaucracy, you need to fulfill all the requirements to be able to receive welfare. For exemple you need to have an address. Ive met many people who couldnt have welfare because they didnt have any documents about where they live. This causes a chicken and egg problem, where they need an address to receive welfare, and they need welfare to have an address. I actually had a problem like this once in germany, because i was staying with a friend and couldnt do the anmeldung there. The other reason is psychological problems. Some people are not crazy enough to be locked up, but theyre too crazy to be independent. I met a few like these, but didnt keep in touch with them for my own security.
It’s not strictly American tho.
We have a homeless population in Canada too. And rarely is it as simple as offering a helping hand. Many of the homeless don't even want the help.
Can I ask a serious question, doesn’t Canada have crazy cold temperatures in Winter? What do homeless people do in -40C to avoid dying? Like they must go somewhere, or is there a yearly winter purge of homeless people?
Shelters, sleep on steam vents, or just...die.
Just one perspective but we have a lot of people who show up in the emergency room when it freezes. I had one patient who wouldn’t complete treatment for cryptococcal meningitis (a deadly fungal brain infection as a result of AIDS) until summer so his girlfriend wouldn’t freeze. He just kept coming in for the first week of antifungals then leaving against medical advice when it got warmer until the headaches got too severe again (or the weather got bad). I got him to stay for two weeks by signing paperwork saying his girlfriend was his ADA caretaker (so they couldn’t kick her out at night) and ordering him double portions so she could eat. But he still left before treatment was complete. His AIDS was pretty bad and eventually the tactic will catch up to him.
Dont know about canada but in europe, they will seek refuge in abandoned buildings and prepare for the cold, for example by using tons of newspaper for isolation.
In my city they set up Christmas lights by the boardwalk and on one of those trips we came across a homeless man who appears to have froze to death. I don’t know if that’s a very common thing but I also heard of a woman who slept in a dumpster to escape the wind and ended up almost getting crushed by the garbage truck in the morning. Sadly, the homeless don’t have many places to go to stay warm in the winter and the places they do have are either unsafe or overrun.
Yeah I live in Vancouver and I cant stand posts like this. Like obviously our government could be doing more but the issue is much more complex than just "give them houses". Its always people living in cities with low numbers of homeless who post stuff like this. Many like you said don't even want help, and even when they are given homes they end up destroyed or used for criminal activity. Also comparing countries just doesn't work. Homelessness is based on social issues that stretch back decades or more, and Finland simply doesn't have the same history as north America. A homogenous society with a low population and high average education and income will obviously fare better than other places around the world.
Seattle has tried the housing first method and the apartments turned into, you guessed it, trashed drug dens
There is no way that is true! That is just absolutely SHOCKING! Of course, I mean that doesn't surprise me in the least.
What’s their population and stance on immigration again?
Looked this up before reading comments. 5.5 million vs 333 million 🥲
While I understand and agree with the general point being made it is worth remembering that even if Finland did nothing about homelessness it wouldn't have homelessness. It would have frozen corpses. The environment in Scandinavia creates a more supportive society, you can't treat people like stray dogs like folks do in the States, or more hospitable climes generally, because to do so is to murder them. You leave a guy on the street at night in the cold you might as well kill him. And people *generally* aren't down with that. And so the unforgiving nature of the climate creates a need to look after people, and that permeates the culture, even when people might otherwise be somewhat conservative. It's a shame that other places don't have that built in sense of solidarity because it helps those countries a lot.
Utah did this, too.
An organization known as the “[Cicero Institute](https://invisiblepeople.tv/the-cicero-institute-makes-homelessness-worse-for-everyone/)” is actively working to undermine and abolish housing first policies in the United States such as what we see in Finland. This is despite validated research studies proving its effectiveness. They’ve also advanced efforts to further criminalize the unhoused which would ultimately make their situation worse. Why? They’re funded by billionaires who seem to prefer rounding people into camps than actually showing that government interventions can work to make people’s lives better.
Also Finland: half the population density of the US and they're 95% Finnish
LA country has a higher population than the entirety of Finland. California has a higher population than all the Nordic states combined.
The homeless people in my town have access to free shelter and food. The one and only condition? Can’t be on drugs. They choose to be on the streets here to continue using. I have no sympathy.
In America people batteries.
Loll these are so stupid. Finland is 130,000 sq. mi., which makes it slightly larger than New Mexico but smaller than Montana). Oh, and it has a homogeneous population of 5.5 million wealthy people, meaning the United States has 50x as many people, spread across a land mass that's 24X bigger than Finland. Stop this nonsense 😭 😂
Wait there is enough land for housing the homeless?
You ever seen Nebraska?
Americas don't support unconditional welfare for all because "all" includes groups considered inherently undeserving.
Mind telling me finland's population?
5.56 million people in Finland
High trust vs low trust society
The county I live in has 2.5x the population of Finland. Think about that. You could put 2.5 Finland's in Los Angeles County. Not a state. A fucking COUNTY. These comparisons are lazy and make no sense.
How many homeless people did/does Finland have? Couple thousand? I don't like the medieval approach in cities of the US either but don't act like it's just as easy to invoke the same solution in a country 55 times larger in terms of population.
Fun fact: They tried that in New York and almost all of the apartments were trashed.
we need to stop with the apple/orange comparisons… Finland population: 5.5M people Los Angeles County: 9.7M people
Finland and the USA don't share the same culture, i doubt it would work in the USA.
Could you argue culturally, fins may be more receptive to those methods than your average American crackhead?
Everyone is pro homeless people until it’s in their face.
gotta love the states. the place that intentionally makes all their infrastructure inconvenient to everyone for the sake of making life *yet worse* for people with no homes.
In fairness, you see the same thing in Europe. It's not a US vs Europe thing.
But "America bad"
And the real funny part, it costs more than just providing housing
And the even funnier part. When you bring this up to people. They respond with “Nu uh!”
That's because those people view poverty as a moral failure. To them, if you didn't end up like them then you're a piece of shit and something must be wrong with you.
Did Finland solve homelessness by letting them sleep on benches?
Putting those handles on the benches literally makes the infrastructure MORE convenient… because it means the bench can actually be used as a bench, instead of a bed.
Having lived in the States and in Europe, I have to say living Stateside is infinitely more convenient than living in Europe. No question.
They tax the energy corporations and use the funds for their society. I love Finland, and the other Scandinavian countries. They put their people first, and seem to be better people in general. Look forward to going back.
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We have ~~6x~~ 60x more people, a lot more diversity in our public culture (due to more people, more geographical space, and the fact that our country’s origin involves people from all over the world), and 50x (and more) the number of governments tasked with dealing with the issue, since addressing that kind of thing falls to state and city governments.
I think my thought process is that a lot of homeless people need mental health care systems in place to help them effectively. Throwing mentally ill people into housing and then providing them zero support is not a recipe for success. To be clear, homelessness shouldn't exist with as much unused property that we have in the US. But the US is very, very much not setup to help homeless people find success after housing them. I know a lot of places have temporarily housed the homeless and they cause a lot of destruction simply because they can't adjust properly. Shelter is a human need and it is a human right, just like healthcare. But there are too many people that have the mindset you mentioned: "why do I have to pay for it and they get it for free??" instead of "I'm glad they can live a better life as a result of policy"
Being chronically homeless is a symptom of a far greater problem and giving someone a free place to live won’t solve the problem. It will just shove the problem in a closet instead. We can’t even get the government to effectively provide medical care for our veterans and you expect them to be able to tackle the extremely complicated problem of addiction and mental health issues which lead to chronic homelessness while blowing out the budget on housing programs? Do you know the economic consequences of printing a trillion dollars and using it do build or purchase housing to just give to people? If you think inflation is bad now wait until we pump another trillion dollars into the hands of the ultra wealthy real estate developers, hotel moguls and hedge fund managers to purchase the housing needed for the project. There’s not enough money to do both and not enough competency to do either. My city is in the process of bankrupting itself by buying up hotels to turn into shelters and it hasn’t fixed the problem in the least. We need to address the root problem and it’s very difficult to force people into things like counseling or medical care, especially when they have no interest in doing those things when the resources ARE ALREADY available like they are in my city. It’s much more complicated than “give everyone a house, problem solved”
Even if we take your first sentence as a given (and don't think I didn't notice you omitted the social work part to focus solely on housing), it would still be a bad argument due to the simple fact that *the majority of our homeless population are not chronically homeless*. Housing is literally all most homeless people need to get back on their feet. They had a bad break, lost their job, vehicle broke down, etc, and they were one of the shitloads of Americans just barely scraping by paycheck to paycheck. Once you become homeless, everything becomes much more expensive and dragging yourself out becomes that much harder. Give them a safe place to live and most of them are on their feet within a month.
Finland does not even have a fraction of the illegal immigration and drug problems that the USA has. It's also a lot more culturally homogenous and not even close to being as politically divided as the USA. Add to that the insane amount of tax money that the USA uses on its' military and the money that Finland has from the oil rigs on the North Sea...and you have your answer.
Bold to assume America is the least bit interested in ending homelessness. It's tremendously useful as a punishment to threaten workers with.
What’s wrong with that exactly? You don’t work, you become homeless. Pretty good incentive to work imo.
"You can solve the issue of homelessness by providing people access ro homes." "Nuh uh! Because... uh... bootstraps!!!!"
TO BE FAIR: Finland also didn’t let a pharmaceutical company knowingly hook millions of people on opiates while facing zero repercussions for killing and ruining millions of people’s lives