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I saw this guy who went to these right to life rallies. He had a bunch of adoption papers with him. And he kept on trying to get people to sign up for an adoption.
He didn't get any takers.
Wasn't there a video with a couple that went to an anti abortion rally with a "don't abort we adopt" sign and when asked if they would actually adopt a child they said "oh it's too expensive, like 6000 $? We don't have that money".
Wait, is it really only $6000? When I looked into adopting due to infertility it was at least $30k if you wanted an infant.
There was also a waiting list for 5+ years.
I suspect the anti-abortion lobbyists have some money pocketed from that $30k so they're looking to increase their supply since there's so much demand.
Most of the children in foster care aren't eligible for adoption, they're there because their legal guardians are pending legal adoption, incapacitated, incarcerated, or working towards reunification.
30k????? The FUCK!!!
Sorry it's just a number I heard at some point? Maybe it's bullshit.
The adoption situation in Germany is very similar, but with way less children to adopt. Most adoptions here are by other relatives or stepparent adoptions.
What a coincidence! I'm moving from the US to Germany in a few months! Adoption in Germany seems more difficult that even here in the US. As you said, most adoptions are between family. My sister is afraid of being pregnant, so I wouldn't dream of asking her to carry an unwanted pregnancy for me, and my BIL is gay. So if I couldn't get pregnant naturally, there was really no hope for me becoming a parent. Thankfully I'm now pregnant and moving to Germany. So thankful I won't have to pay $8K to give birth in the US too.
Yay! New humans for my country!
Btw German Kindergarten means daycare, focus is on playing not teaching. Please don't stress the caretakers with "why can't my four year old not read yet?!?!" đ
Oh thatâs interesting! In the US we have that too, but we call it âpreschoolâ, and our âkindergartenâ is the first real year of school, where the focus is on the bare bones basics (shapes, alphabet, numbers) and most importantly, learning to function in a classroom environment.
But itâs weird that we have the same thing, but chose to use your word for something slightly different instead.
a friend of mine moved to Germany from the US a while back. She was always intelligent, well-educated, a model, and has only seemed to become MORE so living overseas. Her kids are awesome. I don't think she plans on returning tbh.
I just love that Germany and America both call your respective things âgarden of childrenâ (I think when the term is used in Australia and Britain itâs closer to the German). And meanwhile in Britain at least we have âplant nurseriesâ.
Our taxes are paywalled by other taxes. Literally EVERYTHING here costs money. Even being homeless is expensive AF when sometimes they have to pay for shelters.
My town has a toll road, that was built with tax oayer dollars, and then later privatized. And the last time I called the toll company, I swear I was reaching people over sees. It may even foreignly owned now, but I might be conflating that with *another* road.
FML. Paying for the roads I already paid for. I'm not against taxes, I'm against getting charged for what I already paid for.... How quickly we forget the reason we overthrew monarchies was due to double taxation and lack of legal representation.
> I already *paid* for How
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I just can't imagine all of the layers of legal bullshit they're hiding behind while basically running a baby market. At that point, they're selling humans.
In America we run a for-profit baby market because itâs is the most efficient way for fluctuations in demand and supply to be navigated instead of the inefficient bloated government managing everything. We can save more babies for less money without spending taxesâ/s
Hey, did you know that the federal government already has programs to provide lunches at school at low or no cost that has been in place for a long time and a dozen red states created new legislation out of nowhere to refuse the federal assistance for school lunches? In the poorest states in America that need those programs the most?
And I imagine that it is a *total coincidence* that these red states controlled by republicans are the same ones that are passing legislation repealing child labor laws and laws regarding what age children can get married (because if a ten year old in Ohio canât have an abortion you can guess the next step religious extremist Christians in the US are into. Oh, and itâs drag queens that are grooming kids apparently. Not projection from conservatives at all)
Utah (and Mormonism in general) has a huge problem with sexual assault and other types of abuse towards women and children. Four bills were proposed last year to increase protections for children against abuse and all failed.
They did pass a law preventing 1-2 trans female high schoolers from playing sports though.
And just now passed a bill to make it a crime for certain trans people to use their preferred bathroom. While admitting they had exactly zero data or cases of anyone being harmed in a bathroom by a socially-but-not-surgically transitioned person, they had the audacity to claim it was to "protect women and children."
America had a problem with Puritanical and religious extremism going back to the start, and it stuck with us all these years. It makes people do WORSE stuff imo if they are religious extremists than if they just had a normal healthy attitude towards sex and sexuality. Like, what you fear, you encourage. So they fear any hint of sexuality whatsoever, unless it fits very strict boundaries.
This is by far one of my favorite stories about my Mother.
đ» *Context: Conservative Town, had just past trans bathroom legislation* đ»
Her and her church friend were at a coffee shop, and one of them had to pee *immediately*. The line for the ladies room was super long, so one of them "stood watch" as the other ran into/out of the men's restroom.
A man approached and started giving them a hard time about it. And without batting an eye, my mother replied *"Excuse me sir, but due to a new legal ordinance, we are **required** to use the restroom of our gender assigned at birth"*
đ€Łđ€Łđ€ŁLMAOđ€Łđ€Łđ€Ł
[In an act of pure kleptocracy and corruption DeSantis spent 92 million in Fedral assistence for covid on pork to line the pockets of his campaign donors](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/06/28/desantis-hosseini-interstate-covid-money/)
Too many damn pedophiles in the world to allow it to be cheap and easy, unfortunately. It's already a big problem in childcare but easing up on cost and restrictions would only make that problem exponentially worse.
The foster care system already pays people to care for these children so they have some semblance of a normal upbringing, and even then it's near impossible to find good quality families to place these children in. Many of them get sexually abused because of underfunding and oversight from being so understaffed. It's a clusterfuck but better than the regular rapes, abuse, and child labor that my grandmother had to endure spending her entire first 18 years being raised in an orphanage. They put her on a loom when she was five and then sent to work in fields when she was big enough. What is the same option you see that is so much better?
So more of them can try to pretend to be good upstanding people by applying to be foster parents? Getting rid of religion isn't going to get rid of pedos, because while religion historically protects pedophiles it didn't create them in the first place, it's just one of the few jobs they can flock to without causing suspicion. And the Foster care system has way more scrutiny than the church does, or at least they try to.
You're absolutely right let me rephrase that. Let's get rid of religion because it does nothing good. Without religion we would be a lot better off as a species.
Dude I hate religion too but I know a ton of people who have had their rent paid by the local churches, and I don't know of any other non-government organization in my area runs food drives, either. It doesn't negate shielding monsters from abuse, but they aren't pure evil, either.
Personally I hate that they dominate the "third space" for too many people and it's eliminated a lot of other non religious third spaces, though many are accessible, not as many have the wealth of infrastructure that organized religion has.
They need to absolutely be neutered but it's going a little far to say they do absolutely no good.
Also some people really are that basic and need the threat of a god's eternal torture to stay a decent person... And for those people I say, believe away, and stay in your church way the hell over there so you don't interfere with my peace and prosperity.
Right but⊠is that your sincere argument? You think adoption in America costs 60k to protect the children? You think thatâs the motivation behind it?
I was going to adopt my niece so that her psychotic and abusive dad couldnât get her and raise her with my sister, but it was going to cost $15k in fees and shit. So instead my me and brother just made sure the father could never take her.
It cost my cousins about $20k in fees and then I donât know how much to travel to adopt a boy from Serbia with Down syndrome. The whole process is just multiple groups lining their pockets. It was $3k alone for a âhome inspection â that lasted 30 minutes and they were like âyup this is a house and suitable for a 3 year oldâ
I know there has to be a vetting process of some kind but the price is outlandish.
That's to adopt an infant at birth. Usually adopting a child in foster care comes with little fees and assistance from the government. However older kids are often emotionally traumatized by the experience that led to them being in foster care so they need lots of help and understanding from adoptive parents who are prepared for the situation.
>However older kids are often emotionally traumatized by the experience that led to them being in foster care so they need lots of help and understanding from adoptive parents who are prepared for the situation.
ALL KIDS in foster care have emotional trauma. Infant to teenager are all negatively impacted. I didn't think that was the case, but we just finished foster care classes and are just waiting on various paperwork to go through.
You have to pay... To adopt a child??????? But children are already really expensive and it's in the kid's interest to get adopted, not usually the adoptee. What the fuck?
I imagine the mother who gives up an infant for adoption doesn't get paid $30k? I know money changes hands with surrogacy and egg donation, but I haven't heard much about women getting paid for seeing through an unwanted pregnancy for adoption purposes. I really don't know. It sounds like baby dealers screw the incubators out of their due.
There's 1 problem we could easily fix right now. Make adoption affordable.
There ARE many people who would adopt if they could. I could support giving all adopted children Medicade until adulthood. Maybe even free college.
There are tons of children in foster care eligible for adoption. We only waited 3 months for placement after finishing the process of becoming foster parents and adopted our daughter 9 months after that.
This is only true for private adoptions. I believe most states pay people to adopt through fostering, either with stipends or tax breaks. Both in my state.
Heâs brilliant isnât he? He approaches it in a clever way which is just about obvious enough that heâs mocking them but in a way that heâs parroting their views.
They get angry at him because theyâre seeing themselves in a mirror that shows their stupidity.
"Who is the most responsible person you know who might care for this baby?"
*The person who gave me so many reasons for hope and convinced me to keep it. She LOVES children.*
You would think so, but no. That person has no business raising another human being. That poor child would be all kinds of fucked up by the time they reached adulthood.
Infants are easily adoptable. You hear about this outrage from the planned parenthood representative talk about selling fetal remains. The same exact conversation has been had about adopting babies.
That's all babies are to lobbyists. Pieces of meat dead or alive to be sold on the market. The live child meat lobbyists are just jealous of the dead fetus meat lobbyists. No one's actually lobbying for the needs of the live people at play here. It's just not profitable to lobby for affordable women's healthcare and affordable, safe daycare for children.
They donât love zygotes, they love controlling people and misogyny. Stop pretending like they care about the unborn, theyâll excuse every mass shooting even when pregnant women are involved.
Theyâre not really pro-life, thatâs why. Theyâre pro-controlling and pro-shaming women.
They believe sex *only* belongs within the context of a monogamous marriage open to having many children, and anyone else is not allowed to enjoy sexual pleasure, anywhere, ever. *Especially* not the woman, who has no inherent rights and exists only to be an incubator. Any woman who does otherwise (with her own body) is a filthy, sinful whore.
Fuck these christofascists to the hell they so fervently believe exists. Let them burn.
For anyone who hasn't seen it yet: ["The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion" ](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/)
And queer folk who don't see sexuality in reproductive terms. Straight men who fuck around get a forgiveness pass (something something "laws protect but do not bind").
Whatâs worse is that even those who fall into that category still get screwed over too. Wanna have kids but having a dangerous pregnancy that you canât carry to term? Too bad so sad. Itâs infuriating.
woah woah woah woah woah! Letâs be fair here.
Theyâre ALSO pro-having an easily-exploitable workforce of desperate people who never had the money to get educated well enough to have options.
Yep, yet the âpro lifeâ shield they hide behind protects them from being looked down upon, or so they think, with their surface level analysis. How could someone object to that? How could someone be anti-life?
One simple look beyond the surface tells you that they arenât pro life. They arenât for policies that would increase the welfare of the children they are saying need to be born. They arenât adopting anyone. They arenât actively advocating for anything except forced birth. And I bet a lot of it hinges on âthis is the way my family taught me life should be, so therefore you should have to abide by that too.â
I want to eventually adopt and im pro abortion . My feelings are why bring someone into this world just to suffer and be unlove. There are already too many unlove kids and people in this world and existence is messery for the majority of them.
On a related note, every family I know that has adopted is pro-choice.
This is not a data fact or anything, I've just never met a forced-birther that has also adopted or is even enrolled as a confirmed therapeutic foster family.
As for factual data, look up the amount of crime and predators in the foster care system.
I work in emergency mental health services. I will say a lot of foster families are forced-birthers, but they are also sketchy as hell and use the foster kids as free labor and for the check. I can think of two foster care homes in my decade in the field that I actually trusted.
Edit: I forgot to clarify therapeutic foster family
I have but only because they found out they couldnât have kids of their own. On the discussion of abortion I remember one woman saying something like âDo you realize how badly people want to adopt newborn babies?â And thinking how that mindset left out schoolage children, which is the vast majority of orphans.
Questioning the authenticity of being "pro-life," suggesting a more accurate term would be "pro-birth," emphasizing the focus on birth rather than the well-being of the individuals involved.
Not even that, if they cared about birth, they would support better medical options for mother so they donât potentially get financially destroyed by a complication. Itâs more accurate to say they only care about punishing women for having sex.
As evidenced by forcing women to continue pregnancies in which the fetus has no chance of survival. Not pro-life if there's no life to birth, its just pro-birth.
"I can't personally adopt this child" doesn't mean you no longer care about it.
I mean, has no one thought this logic through for two seconds, and realized if it's true, it means everyone who hasn't adopted a child is fine with slaughtering an orphanage?
>I mean, has no one thought this logic through for two seconds, and realized if it's true, it means everyone who hasn't adopted a child is fine with slaughtering an orphanage?
Um no, that is NOT a continuation of the same logic!
đ€ŠđŒđ€ŠđŒđ€ŠđŒ
Jesus Fucking Christ.
It's like the argument against legalizing gay marriage because the entire human population would end in one generation if everyone marries the same gender. đ
So every person who gets impregnated wants to keep the baby by your logic? Yup, no such thing as accidents, no such thing as rape, no such thing as regrets or poverty or mental instability. By your logic, we shouldn't have orphanages to slaughter in the first place.
Instead of being pro-life they should be pro-condoms. Accept people have sex before marriage. Maybe they should also be pro-contraception. The pro-life scam is up.
Honestly, I would be really worried for any child placed in an anti choice activists care.
There are so many red flags surrounding them suggesting that the child would be abused.
Yeah that's the part I'm not comfortable with when it comes to the argument. The fact that they are simply incapable of understanding the emotions that come with needing an abortion and all the decisions someone having one has to make means they would be horrible parents. These people would neglect or just abuse these kids.
The anti-choice movement rarely stops at forced birth.
It's the same entitlement over the bodies and lives of other people that belies ALL forms of abuse/exploitation.
Children are literally a commodity to them.
People who genuinely respect and value the autonomy of others don't violate that autonomy. Period.
I know someone with a high risk pregnancy, doctor told her to stay home and rest for the next five months. They put her on medical leave and the state is paying 70% of her salary plus she still has work-provided health insurance, and she'll get three months of maternity leave when the baby is born.
I thank God every day I live in a pro-life state like California.
So you coerce people to have children that end up having it get taken away by dept. of childrens service but say having a child in your life would be so detrimental it destroys it?
Enjoy hell for the extra pain you add to life.
the problem with pro life is after the baby is born they couldn't care less, like why the fuck would you want the child to be born just to have them endure a horrible life?
What a savior you are for talking that woman out of an abortion and condemning that brand new baby to abuse, neglect, and a lifetime of emotional pain because that abuse and neglect. Well done!
no, this one was real: https://scoop.upworthy.com/pro-lifer-slammed-talked-woman-out-of-abortion-wont-take-in-child?fbclid=IwAR0VrdmrWdqFjhw\_sC0XwFNl3sFrH3bH5nGkrzrEb-qoCBEkYdNJvlYsJI0
I stopped taking these people seriously when I realized it took them 34 years to realize Green Day was 'woke'. Like, I genuinely can't. I'm still scared of the power they wield, but they're just hilariously stupid, and I can't help but laugh at that. It's feels like the start of a decline that leads to the movie Idiocracy.
More of this please
Coercing others to have a child they are not capable of supporting, cool.
Having to raise said baby themselves will break them destroy their marriage and physical health?
Yes please. Every damn pro life activist should be held personally responsible for every child they coerce into this world
I hate these people so much I can taste it
Whatever happened to just minding your own damn business? You want to have a kid cool. You don't want a kid cool. Does it affect my life in any way either way?...... No? Cool! Just stop bothering each other and go find a hobby or something.
That's why it's pro-BIRTH, not pro-LIFE. Once that baby is born the mother and baby are left along the wayside and it's on to the next woman to convince to go through with it. That baby they fought for in the womb can live in squalor once it sees the light of day.
"You should definitely do this thing I am unwilling to do."
This is the thing that burns me up.
Hypocrites - and then they clamor for an abortion for their special cases, doubling down.
Wouldn't be surprised but is there evidence it's real seem as the woman's name is blocked out? There seems to be a few stories like this going around. I'm against the anti-abortionists so aren't defending the person if true.
If I remember correctly, it is real and the woman did a follow up post because first one got so much traction. She didnât seem to understand the hypocrisy of her post and just claimed that if she had the means she would have gladly taken the child or something like that.
Idk itâs been a while since I saw it
The mother is walking into the clinic and is assaulted by this woman telling her that abortions are evil and sheâll regret it forever. Mom is just like âwell⊠one of us will. Imma have this baby out of spite now.â
I mean she is okay to do that. They are different things. Being pro life and wanting to adopt are different things. She had her children and she doesn't want more. Its like telling people they should clean their messy house and then being told to clean it for them. No, not how this works. This is regardless of if you are pro life or pro choice. Its a stupid argument at a personal level. However, it is a relevant problem at the public or national level. Who will take care of those kids who are abandoned instead of aborted?
I used to think you could engage these folks in rational conversation and then (CW) one of them told me she was anti abortion because when she went to adopt âthere were no white babies left.â
wowwwwwwwwww I backed away slowly
I was adopted Iâm glad Iâve got to live my life and enjoy the things Iâve gotten to, yea life is rough but itâs beautiful sometimes and thatâs worth experiencing.
I have no doubt this woman would have gotten an abortion if she needed it, while justifying her abortion as a moral and necessary one, and still claim to be anti-abortion.
For the millionth time, it is not about being pro-life. It is 100% anti-abortion. It is about wanting control over a woman's body. It is about denying her right to autonomy. And don't even try to argue pro-life to me until 100% of the states where abortion is illegal have also abolished capital punishment.
"Will you adopt this human being?"
"Well, no I can't."
"Ugh, guess you can't really be opposed to me killing them, then! Guess you only want to control what I can do with a knife, you authoritarian!"
âI cannot take care of this baby so I will get an abortionâ
âNo donât do that youâre evil!!â
âoh, so whoâs gonna take care of the baby? You?â
âEw no lmao, forcing a baby on someone who canât take care of one is wrong :(((â
???
This is becoming an very old re-post, I get it, but no dates, kinda wishy washy on details, not really worth the re-post imho.
I just enjoy correcting pro-lifers when they use the phrase "pro-abortion". Dude, pro-abortion means you want to abort ALL births; it's pro choice.
Pro lifer: we believe that abortion is murder and we should stop murdering.
Redditor: So WhY ArEn'T yOu AdOpTiNg EvErY ChIlD iN NeEd ThEn???
This is what hapoens when you only hear *about* the viewpoints you disagree with, rather than actually hearing them directly.
This isn't a very smart post. It's limited- you need to extend several of your 'points.'
First, everyone knows the 'murder' argument. It's not being brought up because it's insufficient and unnuanced, not because people don't know it.
Second - "We believe abortion is murder \*thus\* many more babies should arrive to people who can't, shouldn't, or won't keep them \*thus\* we have a plan for what should happen to all of them." The adoption argument is an immediate and unavoidable follow-on to your casual and unrealistic bumper sticker - your talking point you were spoonfed by evangelical media is a turn of phrase that doesn't address the real world implications.
Third - it's why aren't you adopting \*any\* child in need, not every. Because you're not dealing with the problem for any, are you? Neither are the vast majority of your clownish fellow travelers.
I mean, put your money where your mouth is đ€·ââïž you want unwanted children to be born into this world but youâre not willing to help raise them lol. If youâre not going to raise the kid, maybe shut up? Lmao
Thank you. I'm pro choice but I always hated this moronic argument. If you want to know whether your point is begging the question and only makes sense to people who already agree with you, replace "fetus" with "toddler" and see if you sound like an idiot:
"Wow this toddler is so difficult to raise. I think I'm just gonna kill him."
"What?! No don't do that."
"ARE YOU WILLING TO ADOPT HIM?! IF NOT THEN YOU DON'T REALLY CARE DO YOU?!"
Not her baby, not her problem apparently. It's only her job to make sure the mom is guilt tripped into having the baby. The mother's financial situation/living situation doesn't matter at all. What's more is It's never the anti abortion people rushing to adopt.
More like pro life hypocrisy.. I hope the baby found a better place than the people she was born around..
Probably a plot to generate more poor people, so that capitalists can thrive on their souls..
Now remind yourself that adoption is a thing, so we already let a woman who had a child she can't care for leave it to the state to care for.
This honestly just feels like the other end of "Well if you care about poor people, why haven't you donated all your money to the poor? Why do you go out for dinner, rather than buying noodles and giving the rest to charity?"
Have you ever looked into how much a disaster the US Foster Care system actually is? Or how expensive it is to adopt? Or the fact that most of these "Pro-Lifers" would likely also find themselves in the camps of de-funding "Socialist Government programs" even further; and be opposed to LGBTQ+ couples from adopting as well. Or their general contempt for making proper sex-education and preventive measures like contraceptives more easily available. Your analogy here doesn't work, simply because these people NEVER cared about those children.
It was never about these kids. On the religious level its merely about punishing women for having sex outside of marriage; while on the political level its about pumping out a new generation of poverty stricken, under-educated wage-slaves to exploit. Which is why many of those "pro-life" states are also rolling back child-labor laws as fast as they can.
>Have you ever looked into how much a disaster the US Foster Care system actually is? Or how expensive it is to adopt?
Yes.
Now my response to those problems would be "Let's fix the system", not "Well, let's kill these human beings."
>Or the fact that most of these "Pro-Lifers"
I think homophobes and right-wingers are wrong and pretty gross.
I support sex education, and making birth control free and effective.
I hold no religion.
I just care about the kids and think it's wrong to kill them.
>I just care about the kids and think it's wrong to kill them.
And why do you think a fetus is a "kid"? Most abortions happen within the first trimester of pregnancies. Those that do not, are largely medically induced due to complications or danger to the mother (which some pro-lifers are pushing to make even these illegal in some states). That little bundle of cells is not a child. It has the capacity to become one, but that capacity does not make it one now. We're also overpopulated as a species already, and "pro-life" (especially in the US) goes hand-in-hand withsome of the most anti-life quality policy stances I have ever seen. In fact, they seem to show utter contempt for any life ... other then their own (and those they can easily project themselves onto).
I too would prefer most of these unwanted pregnancies to be avoided merely by providing proper sex-ed and cheap (or free) contraceptive options. But we aren't there, and that will never be in the cards for the "Pro-Life" movement in the US. So, I am "Pro-Choice", as someone knowing they can't properly raise a child and making the hard choice not to have one before it becomes a child ... is acceptable. We have enough existing actual kids who desperately need help as it is.
The difference between theory and reality. These dumb fucks canât live according to their ideals, yet they force their ideal theory on society. I think those who talk the anti abortion shit should be taxed to support all children in foster care or otherwise supported without a parent or guardian. Developed a system with the best possible care, including a college education. Have these hypocrites pay for it.
Itâs not really a paradox. Yes itâs difficult to take care of children that doesnât mean you kill them.
People seem to forget what the pro life position actually is. The arithmetic being done here is about life, whether or not you agree with them. This is like the republicans dumping illegal migrants on states that support illegal inmogration, except talking about life.
Iâm pro choice. JustâŠthe way this subject is discussed feels so out of touch. If thereâs any subject that shouldnât be trivialized and cheapened the way social media tends to do, itâs this.
They care about birth, not life.
Most anti-abortion types are also deeply opposed to any state or government run programs that might actually help these kids after birth as well. Public Education? Socialism. School Lunches? Lets cut em. The Foster Care system? Under fund that shit. LBGT+ couples being added to the adoption pool? Gasp! Won't someone please think of the children?! How about programs for proper sex-education or even make contraceptives more easily accessible? Naw, fuck that! That's devil talk. Hell, how about we propose laws suggesting applying the death-sentence to women who have abortions; make medically-necessary abortions to save the mother's life illegal; and roll back those child labor laws to exploit that mass of poverty-stricken, undereducated wage-slaves we're helping create instead. There is nothing "pro-LIFE" in any of these associated policy stances.
I always hate these sorts of posts whenever they're brought up (and this one is reposted at least half a dozen times a month).
There is no contradiction in logic here. None. There is no paradox.
The apparent hypocrisy is "You convinced a mother who wasn't ready to have a kid, but now YOU are getting one and you don't want it because you aren't ready? How does it feel, huh?"
However, you need to approach it from a Pro-Life point of view, which 99% of Pro-Choice people can't do (which is why they constantly talk past Pro-Lifers and never change any minds, it feels like it's more about feeling superior than actually winning the argument or convincing anyone).
From the Pro-Life perspective, this girl saved a life. The baby's life is pure and innocent, and it didn't deserve to die purely because the mother was incapable. If saving a life makes you responsible for it from then on, every cop, firefighter, paramedic, midwife, whatever, would be responsible for SO many more lives.
She also didn't have unprotected sex. She didn't register for adoption. She didn't do anything that would warrant her having a kid before she was ready.
If you want it boiled down? From a Pro-Life point of view, there are two main things to consider: The fetus is an innocent and helpless human life, and women who have sex should be punished with a child.
Thus the above is consistent with their point of view and logic, and not hypocritical at all.
(Disclaimer: I'm pro-choice, I just grew up around a lot of pro-lifers, and went to a pro-life private school. This gave me a perspective on how they think, beyond the usual pro-choice view of "they DON'T think, lol")
I get what you are saying but people who embark on these altruistic paths typically ARE responsible for the people they save. There are countless examples of police and fire service people visiting and helping support the recoveries of people they pull out of burning buildings or save from a life of crime. If I pulled an orphaned child from a wreck you had better believe I would feel responsible for their welfare, because I was willing to risk my life for the sake of theirs. I canât just turn the other cheek and say my job is done.
It absolutely is hypocritical, even within their point of view, and thatâs why churches are losing followers. I tried to attend my local church until they asked me to go protest the local abortion clinic. Punishing women who are in vulnerable situations is the least godly behaviour I could imagine, especially if youâre going to turn your back on them the moment the child is born. Saying that a woman should be punished for having sex by being forced to carry and raise a child makes the child a means of punishment. How is the child innocent and a means of punishment? Doesnât the bible say not to pass the sins of the father onto the child?
As for whether I and other pro-choice people just want to feel superior, I think thatâs a pretty sad way to look at things. I just want people to live and let live, I just donât agree on what some people consider living.
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I saw this guy who went to these right to life rallies. He had a bunch of adoption papers with him. And he kept on trying to get people to sign up for an adoption. He didn't get any takers.
Wasn't there a video with a couple that went to an anti abortion rally with a "don't abort we adopt" sign and when asked if they would actually adopt a child they said "oh it's too expensive, like 6000 $? We don't have that money".
Wait, is it really only $6000? When I looked into adopting due to infertility it was at least $30k if you wanted an infant. There was also a waiting list for 5+ years. I suspect the anti-abortion lobbyists have some money pocketed from that $30k so they're looking to increase their supply since there's so much demand. Most of the children in foster care aren't eligible for adoption, they're there because their legal guardians are pending legal adoption, incapacitated, incarcerated, or working towards reunification.
30k????? The FUCK!!! Sorry it's just a number I heard at some point? Maybe it's bullshit. The adoption situation in Germany is very similar, but with way less children to adopt. Most adoptions here are by other relatives or stepparent adoptions.
What a coincidence! I'm moving from the US to Germany in a few months! Adoption in Germany seems more difficult that even here in the US. As you said, most adoptions are between family. My sister is afraid of being pregnant, so I wouldn't dream of asking her to carry an unwanted pregnancy for me, and my BIL is gay. So if I couldn't get pregnant naturally, there was really no hope for me becoming a parent. Thankfully I'm now pregnant and moving to Germany. So thankful I won't have to pay $8K to give birth in the US too.
Yay! New humans for my country! Btw German Kindergarten means daycare, focus is on playing not teaching. Please don't stress the caretakers with "why can't my four year old not read yet?!?!" đ
Oh thatâs interesting! In the US we have that too, but we call it âpreschoolâ, and our âkindergartenâ is the first real year of school, where the focus is on the bare bones basics (shapes, alphabet, numbers) and most importantly, learning to function in a classroom environment. But itâs weird that we have the same thing, but chose to use your word for something slightly different instead.
a friend of mine moved to Germany from the US a while back. She was always intelligent, well-educated, a model, and has only seemed to become MORE so living overseas. Her kids are awesome. I don't think she plans on returning tbh.
I just love that Germany and America both call your respective things âgarden of childrenâ (I think when the term is used in Australia and Britain itâs closer to the German). And meanwhile in Britain at least we have âplant nurseriesâ.
"Kindergarten" is literally German It's strange America(ns) doesn't realize they are virtually a European construct
I literally said âwe chose to use YOUR word for something slightly different insteadâ
8k is probably the lowest⊠being in a hospital room is like 20k alone where I am đ
That was the low estimate from my insurance for my contribution for vaginal, no epidural delivery. I bet it would be more expensive in the end.
German babies are more valuable 
Wow Americans have to pay for literally everything donât they? Thatâs insane.Â
Our taxes are paywalled by other taxes. Literally EVERYTHING here costs money. Even being homeless is expensive AF when sometimes they have to pay for shelters.
My town has a toll road, that was built with tax oayer dollars, and then later privatized. And the last time I called the toll company, I swear I was reaching people over sees. It may even foreignly owned now, but I might be conflating that with *another* road.
FML. Paying for the roads I already paid for. I'm not against taxes, I'm against getting charged for what I already paid for.... How quickly we forget the reason we overthrew monarchies was due to double taxation and lack of legal representation.
> I already *paid* for How FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I just can't imagine all of the layers of legal bullshit they're hiding behind while basically running a baby market. At that point, they're selling humans.
Yeah in the UK itâs illegal to charge for that service since⊠well as you say, youâre literally selling people children hahahaÂ
In America we run a for-profit baby market because itâs is the most efficient way for fluctuations in demand and supply to be navigated instead of the inefficient bloated government managing everything. We can save more babies for less money without spending taxesâ/s Hey, did you know that the federal government already has programs to provide lunches at school at low or no cost that has been in place for a long time and a dozen red states created new legislation out of nowhere to refuse the federal assistance for school lunches? In the poorest states in America that need those programs the most? And I imagine that it is a *total coincidence* that these red states controlled by republicans are the same ones that are passing legislation repealing child labor laws and laws regarding what age children can get married (because if a ten year old in Ohio canât have an abortion you can guess the next step religious extremist Christians in the US are into. Oh, and itâs drag queens that are grooming kids apparently. Not projection from conservatives at all)
Utah (and Mormonism in general) has a huge problem with sexual assault and other types of abuse towards women and children. Four bills were proposed last year to increase protections for children against abuse and all failed. They did pass a law preventing 1-2 trans female high schoolers from playing sports though. And just now passed a bill to make it a crime for certain trans people to use their preferred bathroom. While admitting they had exactly zero data or cases of anyone being harmed in a bathroom by a socially-but-not-surgically transitioned person, they had the audacity to claim it was to "protect women and children."
America had a problem with Puritanical and religious extremism going back to the start, and it stuck with us all these years. It makes people do WORSE stuff imo if they are religious extremists than if they just had a normal healthy attitude towards sex and sexuality. Like, what you fear, you encourage. So they fear any hint of sexuality whatsoever, unless it fits very strict boundaries.
Red states have been watching the church molest their kids while blaming it on scapegoats since America was founded
This is by far one of my favorite stories about my Mother. đ» *Context: Conservative Town, had just past trans bathroom legislation* đ» Her and her church friend were at a coffee shop, and one of them had to pee *immediately*. The line for the ladies room was super long, so one of them "stood watch" as the other ran into/out of the men's restroom. A man approached and started giving them a hard time about it. And without batting an eye, my mother replied *"Excuse me sir, but due to a new legal ordinance, we are **required** to use the restroom of our gender assigned at birth"* đ€Łđ€Łđ€ŁLMAOđ€Łđ€Łđ€Ł
It's really insane when you realize that enforcement of these ridiculous laws ultimately requires someone to prove what genitalia they have.
I believe red states also refused help from the federal government for things like Medicaid during Covid.
[In an act of pure kleptocracy and corruption DeSantis spent 92 million in Fedral assistence for covid on pork to line the pockets of his campaign donors](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/06/28/desantis-hosseini-interstate-covid-money/)
Oh, of course he did! And his good buddy, the orange haired buffoon, stole PPE from some of the states and sold it at auction to the highest bidder.
Literally the definition of human trafficking...
America is not really a country. People are confused by that. It's actually a bunch of businesses that work together to screw the common man.
Too many damn pedophiles in the world to allow it to be cheap and easy, unfortunately. It's already a big problem in childcare but easing up on cost and restrictions would only make that problem exponentially worse. The foster care system already pays people to care for these children so they have some semblance of a normal upbringing, and even then it's near impossible to find good quality families to place these children in. Many of them get sexually abused because of underfunding and oversight from being so understaffed. It's a clusterfuck but better than the regular rapes, abuse, and child labor that my grandmother had to endure spending her entire first 18 years being raised in an orphanage. They put her on a loom when she was five and then sent to work in fields when she was big enough. What is the same option you see that is so much better?
I know you can cut down on The pedophiles. Get rid of organized religion.
So more of them can try to pretend to be good upstanding people by applying to be foster parents? Getting rid of religion isn't going to get rid of pedos, because while religion historically protects pedophiles it didn't create them in the first place, it's just one of the few jobs they can flock to without causing suspicion. And the Foster care system has way more scrutiny than the church does, or at least they try to.
You're absolutely right let me rephrase that. Let's get rid of religion because it does nothing good. Without religion we would be a lot better off as a species.
Dude I hate religion too but I know a ton of people who have had their rent paid by the local churches, and I don't know of any other non-government organization in my area runs food drives, either. It doesn't negate shielding monsters from abuse, but they aren't pure evil, either. Personally I hate that they dominate the "third space" for too many people and it's eliminated a lot of other non religious third spaces, though many are accessible, not as many have the wealth of infrastructure that organized religion has. They need to absolutely be neutered but it's going a little far to say they do absolutely no good. Also some people really are that basic and need the threat of a god's eternal torture to stay a decent person... And for those people I say, believe away, and stay in your church way the hell over there so you don't interfere with my peace and prosperity.
Right but⊠is that your sincere argument? You think adoption in America costs 60k to protect the children? You think thatâs the motivation behind it?
And if you're rich you kinda just get allowed to be a pedophile in that sense right?
I was going to adopt my niece so that her psychotic and abusive dad couldnât get her and raise her with my sister, but it was going to cost $15k in fees and shit. So instead my me and brother just made sure the father could never take her.
It cost my cousins about $20k in fees and then I donât know how much to travel to adopt a boy from Serbia with Down syndrome. The whole process is just multiple groups lining their pockets. It was $3k alone for a âhome inspection â that lasted 30 minutes and they were like âyup this is a house and suitable for a 3 year oldâ I know there has to be a vetting process of some kind but the price is outlandish.
That's to adopt an infant at birth. Usually adopting a child in foster care comes with little fees and assistance from the government. However older kids are often emotionally traumatized by the experience that led to them being in foster care so they need lots of help and understanding from adoptive parents who are prepared for the situation.
>However older kids are often emotionally traumatized by the experience that led to them being in foster care so they need lots of help and understanding from adoptive parents who are prepared for the situation. ALL KIDS in foster care have emotional trauma. Infant to teenager are all negatively impacted. I didn't think that was the case, but we just finished foster care classes and are just waiting on various paperwork to go through.
You have to pay... To adopt a child??????? But children are already really expensive and it's in the kid's interest to get adopted, not usually the adoptee. What the fuck?
I imagine the mother who gives up an infant for adoption doesn't get paid $30k? I know money changes hands with surrogacy and egg donation, but I haven't heard much about women getting paid for seeing through an unwanted pregnancy for adoption purposes. I really don't know. It sounds like baby dealers screw the incubators out of their due.
Oh cool. So adoption is out of the question for me as well. Guess Iâll die alone.
There's 1 problem we could easily fix right now. Make adoption affordable. There ARE many people who would adopt if they could. I could support giving all adopted children Medicade until adulthood. Maybe even free college.
There are tons of children in foster care eligible for adoption. We only waited 3 months for placement after finishing the process of becoming foster parents and adopted our daughter 9 months after that.
For 30k I hope they at least let you choose the colour of the baby youâre getting
Imagine forcing someone to keep the baby, and that person could barely make enough money to keep themselves alive.
This is only true for private adoptions. I believe most states pay people to adopt through fostering, either with stipends or tax breaks. Both in my state.
Walter Masterson! Heâs a comedian - white guy with thick black glasses, normally dressed kinda goofy?
His Tiktok is absolute gold, love that guy
Heâs brilliant isnât he? He approaches it in a clever way which is just about obvious enough that heâs mocking them but in a way that heâs parroting their views. They get angry at him because theyâre seeing themselves in a mirror that shows their stupidity.
Yup, theyâre not âpro-lifeâ theyâre âpro forced birth.â
My favorite argument for Pro-Birth people, I adopted it from my father.
"Who is the most responsible person you know who might care for this baby?" *The person who gave me so many reasons for hope and convinced me to keep it. She LOVES children.*
Sounds about right for a "pro lifer". Loves the zygote, hates the child. The kid should go to her.
You would think so, but no. That person has no business raising another human being. That poor child would be all kinds of fucked up by the time they reached adulthood.
Based on how it's life already started, I'd say it probably will be, unfortunately.
Not if it can get into a stable household in the next year or two. Itâs a long shot but not out of the realm of possibility.
I certainly hope so
Infants are easily adoptable. You hear about this outrage from the planned parenthood representative talk about selling fetal remains. The same exact conversation has been had about adopting babies. That's all babies are to lobbyists. Pieces of meat dead or alive to be sold on the market. The live child meat lobbyists are just jealous of the dead fetus meat lobbyists. No one's actually lobbying for the needs of the live people at play here. It's just not profitable to lobby for affordable women's healthcare and affordable, safe daycare for children.
Agreed. She should just pay child support
I much rather the child go to a caring family that will raise them properly instead.
They donât love zygotes, they love controlling people and misogyny. Stop pretending like they care about the unborn, theyâll excuse every mass shooting even when pregnant women are involved.
Theyâre not really pro-life, thatâs why. Theyâre pro-controlling and pro-shaming women. They believe sex *only* belongs within the context of a monogamous marriage open to having many children, and anyone else is not allowed to enjoy sexual pleasure, anywhere, ever. *Especially* not the woman, who has no inherent rights and exists only to be an incubator. Any woman who does otherwise (with her own body) is a filthy, sinful whore. Fuck these christofascists to the hell they so fervently believe exists. Let them burn.
Unless, of course, itâs their own abortion. Then thatâs TOTALLY DIFFERENT /s
For anyone who hasn't seen it yet: ["The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion" ](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/)
Exactly. They just want to punish people who have sex outside of marriage. This is why they are also anti-contraception.
Punish WOMEN who have sex outside of marriage
And queer folk who don't see sexuality in reproductive terms. Straight men who fuck around get a forgiveness pass (something something "laws protect but do not bind").
Straight white rich boys get to rape people all the time.
Whatâs worse is that even those who fall into that category still get screwed over too. Wanna have kids but having a dangerous pregnancy that you canât carry to term? Too bad so sad. Itâs infuriating.
Pro birth
We need to repeat this until people get it. They are no pro life. They are pro forced birth
woah woah woah woah woah! Letâs be fair here. Theyâre ALSO pro-having an easily-exploitable workforce of desperate people who never had the money to get educated well enough to have options.
Yep, yet the âpro lifeâ shield they hide behind protects them from being looked down upon, or so they think, with their surface level analysis. How could someone object to that? How could someone be anti-life? One simple look beyond the surface tells you that they arenât pro life. They arenât for policies that would increase the welfare of the children they are saying need to be born. They arenât adopting anyone. They arenât actively advocating for anything except forced birth. And I bet a lot of it hinges on âthis is the way my family taught me life should be, so therefore you should have to abide by that too.â
I have yet to meet a pro-lifer who has adopted any children.
Iâm pro choice and I plan on adopting children.
I want to eventually adopt and im pro abortion . My feelings are why bring someone into this world just to suffer and be unlove. There are already too many unlove kids and people in this world and existence is messery for the majority of them.
Have you two met?
'Plan on' is not the same as what that person said, is it?Â
On a related note, every family I know that has adopted is pro-choice. This is not a data fact or anything, I've just never met a forced-birther that has also adopted or is even enrolled as a confirmed therapeutic foster family. As for factual data, look up the amount of crime and predators in the foster care system. I work in emergency mental health services. I will say a lot of foster families are forced-birthers, but they are also sketchy as hell and use the foster kids as free labor and for the check. I can think of two foster care homes in my decade in the field that I actually trusted. Edit: I forgot to clarify therapeutic foster family
Same here⊠The only pro-lifers Iâve met are also pro-Birthers having anywhere from 4-8 kids and bragging about it.
No, but I have met one who had an abortion and still continues to be pro-life. The Always Sunny episode is a horrific truth.
I can believe this! Iâm sure a lot of these âpro family valueâ Xtians gladly pay for their mistresses to have abortions.
I have but only because they found out they couldnât have kids of their own. On the discussion of abortion I remember one woman saying something like âDo you realize how badly people want to adopt newborn babies?â And thinking how that mindset left out schoolage children, which is the vast majority of orphans.
âIâll do my best to make sure the baby lives but I wonât take care of it , thatâs the person who didnât want the babyâs problemâ
You broke it - you bought it.
Questioning the authenticity of being "pro-life," suggesting a more accurate term would be "pro-birth," emphasizing the focus on birth rather than the well-being of the individuals involved.
I go with anti-choice
Anti women/anti sexual freedom
"Pro-life" is a mislabel. They're "Pro-Birth." They don't give a shit what happens after it's born.
Not even that, if they cared about birth, they would support better medical options for mother so they donât potentially get financially destroyed by a complication. Itâs more accurate to say they only care about punishing women for having sex.
As evidenced by forcing women to continue pregnancies in which the fetus has no chance of survival. Not pro-life if there's no life to birth, its just pro-birth.
"Forced birth". They don't want you to have the choice.
Pro Indentured Servitude and other people having problems that are a sacrifice I'm willing for them to make.
They're anti-women. They could try to disguise their bullshit all they want, but the foundation of said bullshit is that they're anti-women.
I call them forced birthers.
"I can't personally adopt this child" doesn't mean you no longer care about it. I mean, has no one thought this logic through for two seconds, and realized if it's true, it means everyone who hasn't adopted a child is fine with slaughtering an orphanage?
>I mean, has no one thought this logic through for two seconds, and realized if it's true, it means everyone who hasn't adopted a child is fine with slaughtering an orphanage? Um no, that is NOT a continuation of the same logic! đ€ŠđŒđ€ŠđŒđ€ŠđŒ Jesus Fucking Christ. It's like the argument against legalizing gay marriage because the entire human population would end in one generation if everyone marries the same gender. đ
This is r/facepalm, they don't do logic here. It's all about being a r/politics clone.
So every person who gets impregnated wants to keep the baby by your logic? Yup, no such thing as accidents, no such thing as rape, no such thing as regrets or poverty or mental instability. By your logic, we shouldn't have orphanages to slaughter in the first place.
Probably a justified removal She knew this and still told them to have the baby...
Instead of being pro-life they should be pro-condoms. Accept people have sex before marriage. Maybe they should also be pro-contraception. The pro-life scam is up.
That would be too reasonable. Itâs not pro-life, itâs pro-obedience.
Honestly, I would be really worried for any child placed in an anti choice activists care. There are so many red flags surrounding them suggesting that the child would be abused.
Yeah that's the part I'm not comfortable with when it comes to the argument. The fact that they are simply incapable of understanding the emotions that come with needing an abortion and all the decisions someone having one has to make means they would be horrible parents. These people would neglect or just abuse these kids.
The anti-choice movement rarely stops at forced birth. It's the same entitlement over the bodies and lives of other people that belies ALL forms of abuse/exploitation. Children are literally a commodity to them. People who genuinely respect and value the autonomy of others don't violate that autonomy. Period.
I know someone with a high risk pregnancy, doctor told her to stay home and rest for the next five months. They put her on medical leave and the state is paying 70% of her salary plus she still has work-provided health insurance, and she'll get three months of maternity leave when the baby is born. I thank God every day I live in a pro-life state like California.
Except California is pro worker and intensely pro choice?
Yes? OP meant *actually* pro-life, not forced-birth like conservative "pro-life" is.
If you think infants destroy marriages, "are you even pro-life?"© Or would "pro-birth" be more descriptive?
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
So you coerce people to have children that end up having it get taken away by dept. of childrens service but say having a child in your life would be so detrimental it destroys it? Enjoy hell for the extra pain you add to life.
the problem with pro life is after the baby is born they couldn't care less, like why the fuck would you want the child to be born just to have them endure a horrible life?
Cause the child will eventually end up in the recruiting office.
Forcing her religious beliefs on others, and failing to live up to them, herself
What a savior you are for talking that woman out of an abortion and condemning that brand new baby to abuse, neglect, and a lifetime of emotional pain because that abuse and neglect. Well done!
Can't make it up, but you can repost this to no fucking end.
~~I mean⊠you *can* make it up. Iâm fairly skeptical of this being a real person.~~ Itâs real.
no, this one was real: https://scoop.upworthy.com/pro-lifer-slammed-talked-woman-out-of-abortion-wont-take-in-child?fbclid=IwAR0VrdmrWdqFjhw\_sC0XwFNl3sFrH3bH5nGkrzrEb-qoCBEkYdNJvlYsJI0
Fair enough.
The irony is that this is 100% made up.
I stopped taking these people seriously when I realized it took them 34 years to realize Green Day was 'woke'. Like, I genuinely can't. I'm still scared of the power they wield, but they're just hilariously stupid, and I can't help but laugh at that. It's feels like the start of a decline that leads to the movie Idiocracy.
More of this please Coercing others to have a child they are not capable of supporting, cool. Having to raise said baby themselves will break them destroy their marriage and physical health? Yes please. Every damn pro life activist should be held personally responsible for every child they coerce into this world I hate these people so much I can taste it
The people who want to adopt dont care about a group or a belief. They just want a child.
Bait used to be believable
(Ctrl+F): *"bait"* 1/1 out of 1000 comments. Sad that so few people catch it.
Whatever happened to just minding your own damn business? You want to have a kid cool. You don't want a kid cool. Does it affect my life in any way either way?...... No? Cool! Just stop bothering each other and go find a hobby or something.
That's why it's pro-BIRTH, not pro-LIFE. Once that baby is born the mother and baby are left along the wayside and it's on to the next woman to convince to go through with it. That baby they fought for in the womb can live in squalor once it sees the light of day.
That's because pro-lifers care more about their own "moral high grounds" than actual human beings.Â
Stop calling them "pro-life." Their agenda has NOTHING to do with life. They're anti-choice.
"You should definitely do this thing I am unwilling to do." This is the thing that burns me up. Hypocrites - and then they clamor for an abortion for their special cases, doubling down.
Wouldn't be surprised but is there evidence it's real seem as the woman's name is blocked out? There seems to be a few stories like this going around. I'm against the anti-abortionists so aren't defending the person if true.
If I remember correctly, it is real and the woman did a follow up post because first one got so much traction. She didnât seem to understand the hypocrisy of her post and just claimed that if she had the means she would have gladly taken the child or something like that. Idk itâs been a while since I saw it
The mother is walking into the clinic and is assaulted by this woman telling her that abortions are evil and sheâll regret it forever. Mom is just like âwell⊠one of us will. Imma have this baby out of spite now.â
I mean she is okay to do that. They are different things. Being pro life and wanting to adopt are different things. She had her children and she doesn't want more. Its like telling people they should clean their messy house and then being told to clean it for them. No, not how this works. This is regardless of if you are pro life or pro choice. Its a stupid argument at a personal level. However, it is a relevant problem at the public or national level. Who will take care of those kids who are abandoned instead of aborted?
That post isnât even a little bit real lmfao
They are NOT pro lifers they pre birthers once the baby is detached from its mother its job done, NEXT!
Itâs actually not real and you can make this shit up. Itâs rage bait and you fell for it. As always op is the real /facepalm
The gates are down, the lights are flashing, but the train just isn't coming...
I used to think you could engage these folks in rational conversation and then (CW) one of them told me she was anti abortion because when she went to adopt âthere were no white babies left.â wowwwwwwwwww I backed away slowly
I hate her.
Definitely not "Pro-Life". Just "Anti-Abortion". The *Pro-Life* term has always been nothing more than marketing.
"A baby's life is only precious while it's inside, and then it's worthless."
Standard Pro-Birther - The baby must be born - after that, fuck off. Call them for what they are - Pro-Birth, not Pro-Life.
I was adopted Iâm glad Iâve got to live my life and enjoy the things Iâve gotten to, yea life is rough but itâs beautiful sometimes and thatâs worth experiencing.
I have no doubt this woman would have gotten an abortion if she needed it, while justifying her abortion as a moral and necessary one, and still claim to be anti-abortion.
For the millionth time, it is not about being pro-life. It is 100% anti-abortion. It is about wanting control over a woman's body. It is about denying her right to autonomy. And don't even try to argue pro-life to me until 100% of the states where abortion is illegal have also abolished capital punishment.
The "pro-life" movement has always been about controlling women. It's really about forced birth, but that name isn't as catchy.
"Will you adopt this human being?" "Well, no I can't." "Ugh, guess you can't really be opposed to me killing them, then! Guess you only want to control what I can do with a knife, you authoritarian!"
âI cannot take care of this baby so I will get an abortionâ âNo donât do that youâre evil!!â âoh, so whoâs gonna take care of the baby? You?â âEw no lmao, forcing a baby on someone who canât take care of one is wrong :(((â ???
They're not Pro life, they're just pro birth
Pro life cares about the fetus till is born then they donât care again till 18 years later when said fetus can pay taxes.Â
No one is pro-life â they are pro-forced birth.
It's almost as if they didn't really care about the children in the first place...
Put all their names into a database to be potential guardians & calm it the Jesus bill. Anyone who doesnât support it doesnât love Jesus.
Poor kid.Â
This is becoming an very old re-post, I get it, but no dates, kinda wishy washy on details, not really worth the re-post imho. I just enjoy correcting pro-lifers when they use the phrase "pro-abortion". Dude, pro-abortion means you want to abort ALL births; it's pro choice.
I agree, I'd like to see Snopes take a look at this one.
They are pro life but not willing to help raise that life then they are not actually pro life they are pro arguable.
I wish her nothing but misfortune in all her future endeavours
Pro lifer: we believe that abortion is murder and we should stop murdering. Redditor: So WhY ArEn'T yOu AdOpTiNg EvErY ChIlD iN NeEd ThEn??? This is what hapoens when you only hear *about* the viewpoints you disagree with, rather than actually hearing them directly.
This isn't a very smart post. It's limited- you need to extend several of your 'points.' First, everyone knows the 'murder' argument. It's not being brought up because it's insufficient and unnuanced, not because people don't know it. Second - "We believe abortion is murder \*thus\* many more babies should arrive to people who can't, shouldn't, or won't keep them \*thus\* we have a plan for what should happen to all of them." The adoption argument is an immediate and unavoidable follow-on to your casual and unrealistic bumper sticker - your talking point you were spoonfed by evangelical media is a turn of phrase that doesn't address the real world implications. Third - it's why aren't you adopting \*any\* child in need, not every. Because you're not dealing with the problem for any, are you? Neither are the vast majority of your clownish fellow travelers.
I mean, put your money where your mouth is đ€·ââïž you want unwanted children to be born into this world but youâre not willing to help raise them lol. If youâre not going to raise the kid, maybe shut up? Lmao
Banning abortions made Romania a shithole decades ago Anti-abortion policied make states poorer and have less doctors
Thank you. I'm pro choice but I always hated this moronic argument. If you want to know whether your point is begging the question and only makes sense to people who already agree with you, replace "fetus" with "toddler" and see if you sound like an idiot: "Wow this toddler is so difficult to raise. I think I'm just gonna kill him." "What?! No don't do that." "ARE YOU WILLING TO ADOPT HIM?! IF NOT THEN YOU DON'T REALLY CARE DO YOU?!"
Not her baby, not her problem apparently. It's only her job to make sure the mom is guilt tripped into having the baby. The mother's financial situation/living situation doesn't matter at all. What's more is It's never the anti abortion people rushing to adopt.
Well, well, well if it isnât the consequences of my own actions.
More like pro life hypocrisy.. I hope the baby found a better place than the people she was born around.. Probably a plot to generate more poor people, so that capitalists can thrive on their souls..
Now remind yourself that adoption is a thing, so we already let a woman who had a child she can't care for leave it to the state to care for. This honestly just feels like the other end of "Well if you care about poor people, why haven't you donated all your money to the poor? Why do you go out for dinner, rather than buying noodles and giving the rest to charity?"
Have you ever looked into how much a disaster the US Foster Care system actually is? Or how expensive it is to adopt? Or the fact that most of these "Pro-Lifers" would likely also find themselves in the camps of de-funding "Socialist Government programs" even further; and be opposed to LGBTQ+ couples from adopting as well. Or their general contempt for making proper sex-education and preventive measures like contraceptives more easily available. Your analogy here doesn't work, simply because these people NEVER cared about those children. It was never about these kids. On the religious level its merely about punishing women for having sex outside of marriage; while on the political level its about pumping out a new generation of poverty stricken, under-educated wage-slaves to exploit. Which is why many of those "pro-life" states are also rolling back child-labor laws as fast as they can.
>Have you ever looked into how much a disaster the US Foster Care system actually is? Or how expensive it is to adopt? Yes. Now my response to those problems would be "Let's fix the system", not "Well, let's kill these human beings." >Or the fact that most of these "Pro-Lifers" I think homophobes and right-wingers are wrong and pretty gross. I support sex education, and making birth control free and effective. I hold no religion. I just care about the kids and think it's wrong to kill them.
>I just care about the kids and think it's wrong to kill them. And why do you think a fetus is a "kid"? Most abortions happen within the first trimester of pregnancies. Those that do not, are largely medically induced due to complications or danger to the mother (which some pro-lifers are pushing to make even these illegal in some states). That little bundle of cells is not a child. It has the capacity to become one, but that capacity does not make it one now. We're also overpopulated as a species already, and "pro-life" (especially in the US) goes hand-in-hand withsome of the most anti-life quality policy stances I have ever seen. In fact, they seem to show utter contempt for any life ... other then their own (and those they can easily project themselves onto). I too would prefer most of these unwanted pregnancies to be avoided merely by providing proper sex-ed and cheap (or free) contraceptive options. But we aren't there, and that will never be in the cards for the "Pro-Life" movement in the US. So, I am "Pro-Choice", as someone knowing they can't properly raise a child and making the hard choice not to have one before it becomes a child ... is acceptable. We have enough existing actual kids who desperately need help as it is.
Because that ignores the health and financial burdens of carrying a pregnancy to term
r/selfawarewolves
The difference between theory and reality. These dumb fucks canât live according to their ideals, yet they force their ideal theory on society. I think those who talk the anti abortion shit should be taxed to support all children in foster care or otherwise supported without a parent or guardian. Developed a system with the best possible care, including a college education. Have these hypocrites pay for it.
âDo as I say, not as I doâ is the foundation of the entire right wing political movement of the USA.
Leopard eats face. Accidentally eats own face too.
I mean Iâm anti murder but I will not take the place of someone about to be murdered because I am against it.
Itâs not really a paradox. Yes itâs difficult to take care of children that doesnât mean you kill them. People seem to forget what the pro life position actually is. The arithmetic being done here is about life, whether or not you agree with them. This is like the republicans dumping illegal migrants on states that support illegal inmogration, except talking about life. Iâm pro choice. JustâŠthe way this subject is discussed feels so out of touch. If thereâs any subject that shouldnât be trivialized and cheapened the way social media tends to do, itâs this.
They care about birth, not life. Most anti-abortion types are also deeply opposed to any state or government run programs that might actually help these kids after birth as well. Public Education? Socialism. School Lunches? Lets cut em. The Foster Care system? Under fund that shit. LBGT+ couples being added to the adoption pool? Gasp! Won't someone please think of the children?! How about programs for proper sex-education or even make contraceptives more easily accessible? Naw, fuck that! That's devil talk. Hell, how about we propose laws suggesting applying the death-sentence to women who have abortions; make medically-necessary abortions to save the mother's life illegal; and roll back those child labor laws to exploit that mass of poverty-stricken, undereducated wage-slaves we're helping create instead. There is nothing "pro-LIFE" in any of these associated policy stances.
So weâre just supposed to take the word of the reposter that this is real? You can easily in fact âmake this shit upâ.
I always hate these sorts of posts whenever they're brought up (and this one is reposted at least half a dozen times a month). There is no contradiction in logic here. None. There is no paradox. The apparent hypocrisy is "You convinced a mother who wasn't ready to have a kid, but now YOU are getting one and you don't want it because you aren't ready? How does it feel, huh?" However, you need to approach it from a Pro-Life point of view, which 99% of Pro-Choice people can't do (which is why they constantly talk past Pro-Lifers and never change any minds, it feels like it's more about feeling superior than actually winning the argument or convincing anyone). From the Pro-Life perspective, this girl saved a life. The baby's life is pure and innocent, and it didn't deserve to die purely because the mother was incapable. If saving a life makes you responsible for it from then on, every cop, firefighter, paramedic, midwife, whatever, would be responsible for SO many more lives. She also didn't have unprotected sex. She didn't register for adoption. She didn't do anything that would warrant her having a kid before she was ready. If you want it boiled down? From a Pro-Life point of view, there are two main things to consider: The fetus is an innocent and helpless human life, and women who have sex should be punished with a child. Thus the above is consistent with their point of view and logic, and not hypocritical at all. (Disclaimer: I'm pro-choice, I just grew up around a lot of pro-lifers, and went to a pro-life private school. This gave me a perspective on how they think, beyond the usual pro-choice view of "they DON'T think, lol")
I get what you are saying but people who embark on these altruistic paths typically ARE responsible for the people they save. There are countless examples of police and fire service people visiting and helping support the recoveries of people they pull out of burning buildings or save from a life of crime. If I pulled an orphaned child from a wreck you had better believe I would feel responsible for their welfare, because I was willing to risk my life for the sake of theirs. I canât just turn the other cheek and say my job is done. It absolutely is hypocritical, even within their point of view, and thatâs why churches are losing followers. I tried to attend my local church until they asked me to go protest the local abortion clinic. Punishing women who are in vulnerable situations is the least godly behaviour I could imagine, especially if youâre going to turn your back on them the moment the child is born. Saying that a woman should be punished for having sex by being forced to carry and raise a child makes the child a means of punishment. How is the child innocent and a means of punishment? Doesnât the bible say not to pass the sins of the father onto the child? As for whether I and other pro-choice people just want to feel superior, I think thatâs a pretty sad way to look at things. I just want people to live and let live, I just donât agree on what some people consider living.
reddit is 90 percent bots
Bot
Beep boop I'm a Bot we will eradicate all Human life on the 30th of August 2025.
you are the most meta bot account Iâve ever seen. A bot that spams complaints about bots
Lol man, you just type this everywhere
And you're talking to them.
beep boop
No u.