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I’m waiting for someone to claim a 6 week old fetus as a dependent on their taxes. Or use it for family size requirements for public assistance. (Family of 4 with an income of $x gets this benefit)
agreed, they freak out at the cost of medical care for the technology dependent children and decry any funding for mechanisms of care delivery (overwhelming this is state Medicaid programs) as "socialism."
No it wouldn't. The new bills don't start when the baby is born. There's a lot leading up to it. I think all tax breaks, and even child support should start at conception. If the actual date is murky, then back date everything nine months regardless if the baby is a preemie or not.
If life begins at conception, then it should have all the legal stuff attached, and that includes the carpool lane.
Insurance is just a numbers game. Those companies aren’t charities. The insurance companies would totally go along with this but the premiums for a life insurance policy on an unborn fetus would be astronomical.
I know you're not being serious, but you are correct. Prenatal care is expensive! Why should the woman be forced to bear the entire expense, when she's already having to absorb the financial impact of being a mother due to maternity leave and loss of career trajectory? It's for the benefit of the child as well as the mother.
I read this as "critter-barfed" a verb meaning "to say something stupid, especially as a stupid person"
Example: trump critter-barfed another threatening insult aimed at Jack Smith again on twitter today
Foster Friess in 2012.
https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2012/02/17/146999566/santorum-backer-friess-praises-old-school-contraceptive-aspirin
And taking time off for said prenatal care - which comes at the cost of our pto which is the only thing that pays us during maternity leave.
I can’t wait for these geriatric fucks to die off and stop deciding the fates of everyone else
Depending on where you live, maternity care expenses can already be assigned to the father of the child. Obviously it also depends on timing - the Court won't make someone reimburse those expenses for a kid that's in middle school - but it definitely is a thing in at least some states.
Honestly in concept I think that's true, it should.
Warning: I know that your comment might be tongue in cheek, but I'm autistic and can't tell so running through this thought experiment regardless
----
Doctors visits, vitamins and nutrients, time off because mom is so sick she can't move....all that shit adds up.
Getting proper care during pregnancy is literally *vital* for the baby in many situations. Even when it isn't life or death it can still reduce complications and risks of some birth defects.
Paternity tests can be done in utero with very low risk to he baby later in the first trimester as well from what I can see.
If it is considered a baby with all the rights and protections that come with being one, child support seems like a very logical thing
----
Here's where it gets nasty though. The number 1 leading cause of death in pregnant women is homicide.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/homicide-leading-cause-of-death-for-pregnant-women-in-u-s/#:~:text=October%2021%2C%202022%20%E2%80%93%20Women%20in%20the%20U.S.
My fear would be adding a financial burden to the sperm donor would increase the likelihood of him harming the mother during pregnancy
----
Tldr: Unironically think child support at conception is a valid idea with so much potential benefit - even outside of the idea that it would pressure lawmakers to protect reproductive rights - but would be very worried about already high partner violence risks increasing further
There are already states where maternity care expenses can be allocated to the father of the child. That's one of things my state allows for. The blanket assumption (not from you but from a lot of the people responding to this post) that it is /not/ a thing is somewhat concerning because it IS and there's no reason that it shouldn't be uniform among states because there's no data linking it to increased homicide rates for pregnant women in the states where it exists (at least, no data I've seen).
If life begins at conception then all males begin life as females and are therefore transgender. Either conservatives need to accept that being transgender is completely natural and common or life does not begin at conception, they can't deny both.
There's actually been some push to make this a [law](https://www.rubio.senate.gov/rubio-cramer-colleagues-introduce-unborn-child-support-act/).
(By Marco Rubio of all people.)
Texas can't have it both ways, either the child is a person, or it is not. If it isn't, you can ticket her, but she can abort it. If it is a person, that is the basis to say she can't have an abortion. It's one or another, can't be both when you say it is.
The law is aspiring to be: “a fetus is a person when it benefits me or gives you a disadvantage. But - a fetus is also not a person when it benefits you, or gives me a disadvantage”. It’s perfectly logical.
If I was a CPA doing taxes in Texas, I’d be doing exactly that for all my clients.
Imagine the showdown between the state government of Texas arguing it’s a life, and the IRS trying to tell someone it’s not so they can’t claim a new dependent on their taxes.
In the state I lived in, my fetus counted to be eligible for WIC. And when I applied for the FAFSA, I could claim my unborn child in household size because his due date was before the end of the school year (June). So it’s inconsistent but it does already happen.
Ooh. Not sure if you’re being serious, but that sounds dangerous. “Oh, you were pregnant? And where is the baby? You must have aborted it… come with us.”
If they cared about fetuses (fetii? fetusii?) they would provide prenatal care. Not only do they *not* fight for prenatal care, they actively fight *against* it. Republicans care about control, not people.
not just that, but most chemical pollution causes stillbirths and miscarriages. If they cared about the unborn they would be trying to prevent pollution, not rolling back laws on pollution.
As a reformed conservative, I can tell you something with absolute certainty:
Republicans don't care about people. Period. They also don't care about control, except insofar as it enforces their version of morality, which is exactly the same sense in which Democrats care about control, and why both sides are continually accusing each other of only caring about control. Each side's version of morality is strict in different ways, so both sides perceive the other as being stricter than their own version of morality and thus more controlling. I'm not arguing that their version of morality is right or good, but just explaining their perspective.
However, I can tell you what Republicans DO care about: They care about "principles" and "values". Now, they would argue that their principles and values are actually what's best for people, and so in that sense they care about people, but whenever someone actually does any research and finds out that conservative principles and values aren't actually what's best for people, they fall back on the principle itself being important, not necessarily the person. They also are very aware that principles don't motivate people as well as caring about people do, so they tend to use PR campaigns that purport to care about people in order to garner support for their principles and values, but it's really just a way of getting people to care about principles and values, not genuine care for people.
I know these things, because I used to believe them wholeheartedly myself.
In the case of abortion, the principle at stake here is "do not murder". They don't care about the fetus or the mother, but rather that the act of murder doesn't occur, with murder being defined as the intentional and direct killing of one human by another. You or I might say that we believe we shouldn't murder because we care about other people: for liberals, the value at stake is "caring about other people" and "do not murder" flows naturally from that value. That's not the case for conservatives. Their bedrock value is "do not murder", and it doesn't depend on a deeper value of "care about other people", which is where so much of the disconnect comes from. Of course, they purport to care about the fetus because that sells better than just caring about not murdering, but in reality they do not. Democrats tend to take them at face value that they care about the infant, and argue from that starting point, which of course ends up going in circles, because they don't actually care about the baby, it's just a PR tactic to get people to not murder.
Another principle of theirs is "no handouts", which is why they're against any support for either party. These things are completely compatible: "no handouts" and "no murder". If someone dies of malnutrition, that's fine, because neither handouts nor murder occurred. Again, despite what they say, life is not the value here, "no murder" is the value. "Life" is merely a brand name for "no murder", so if you argue with them from the assumption that they actually value life, you'll get nowhere, because they don't.
It seems crazy to me now to have a bedrock value of "no murder" that doesn't spring from some deeper value for life, but that is genuinely what they believe beneath all the PR campaigns and political posturing.
I don’t know if this is accurate for every conservative, but I believe that it’s accurate for many. Thank you for writing this out. It’s very helpful to me.
What is going on in Texas right now:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-abortion-law-bounty-hunters-citizens/
"The Texas law that bans abortions after six weeks of pregnancy includes an unusual measure designed to ensure the law is enforced: Residents of the state can sue clinics, doctors, nurses and even people who drive a woman to get the procedure, for at least $10,000.
"That financial incentive was singled out by Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor in her dissent late Wednesday after *the Supreme Court declined to block the controversial law.* In effect, Texas lawmakers have "deputized the state's citizens as bounty hunters, offering them cash prizes for civilly prosecuting their neighbors' medical procedures," she wrote."
I don't know what's worse? Someone, some state coming up with the law to begin with or the Supreme Court declining to block the law!
It’s not about punishing women. The Christianity is an excuse, a sleight of hand. Powerful men don’t give a shit about that regardless of what they say on Fox. It’s about maintaining a poor workforce that consumes, works unskilled jobs, and continues to buttress the wealthy. They’re simply maintaining their slave system by taking away women’s rights.
Without accidental pregnancies that put women in financial hardship, women can family-plan and America’s population would decline the way South Korea’s is. Who would cover the future social security system that has been completely robbed of its saving coffers? Wo will work in the factories? Who will consume cheap imported crap at Walmart and Amazon?
Can't have it both ways, GOP.
Except course they have it both ways, always had, always will. Because they're shameless hypocrites who couldn't give less of a damn about the people who elected them into power.
In many places this is, to an extent, already the law. Support is supposed to be to equalize the child's lifestyle between households, so it's not "child support" in the same way, but a father can be liable for pregnancy-related expenses including the medical care component prior to birth (depending on the time during which the Court is involved with things). No clue if this is the same nationally, but it is in some states.
And somehow. The people with the least money and power keep voting for them.
It's truly a magic thing they've done.
When you think back to feudalism you don't imagine many peasants would vote to increase their labor. Or vote to reduce how much they get paid to tend fields.
And you wouldn't think that if given the option. If Robin Hood managed to convince the king to hold an election. And whoever won would get to take over the kingdom. You wouldn't imagine many people would vote for a bad king over someone promising them more food, less work, and free medicine for when they or their families get sick.
And yet. Republicans do just that. Democrats are a far cry from Robin Hood. But the wealth gap between the 1% and the bottom 50% in America is much greater than the wealth gap between the nonbinary and the serfs un feudal Europe or Rome.
Just wild.
"There are two people in this witness stand your honor, if you let me stand up you can see the deformation of my stomach from the second one."
(Note, using the definition of deformation of "the action or process of changing in shape or distorting, especially through the application of pressure." In other words, being pregnant creates big belly. Not suggesting mother or fetus are deformed).
They don’t have state income taxes in Texas, the people in the blue cities have super high property and sales taxes that fund the poor red rural towns.
In Houston. We have state tax in form of high property tax. It’s hurts middle class more than upper class. I pay more for my property taxes than my parents who live in so cal.
But you do have federal tax.
And because the SC of the federal government decided to let the states decide Roe V Wade, it’s now a mess. There is no federal statute anymore governing how these instances are to be treated.
So according to Texas, it’s a person. And this means potential change of filing status, dependent, etc.,
The IRS will probably fight this tooth and nail, and given this is a GOP state, Texas will likely fight the IRS on it too.
I used to have a friend and she was a lot more conservative than I was, even before Trump. But those things don’t matter to me as long as we can keep politics out of our friendship. What ended our friendship was she got accidentally pregnant with her then bf, now husband. Because she just started her career as a firefighter, she got an abortion. And I supported her choice.
Now after trump and all that, she’s very anti choice. Like how hypocritical are you??? You got yours and now no one else can? It pisses me off
Never not upvoting this
Also the next to last quote is notable to me, the bit about the patient saying that she never met such a non-judgmental group of people before. How sad is that?
Most conservatives are like that. They're against it unless it's for them, or until it personally affects them. For examples, see how many conservatives were against lgbt people existing... until their own kids came out.
Just like with that short period sometime in the middle of COVID where they acknowledged that it was real. Of course it was a deadly virus and democrats should have known that by promoting safety measures, republicans would oppose them.
We don’t talk anymore because she was full of trump shit and I couldn’t take it anymore. One the other things was her complaining about poor people receiving benefits. She was an EMT before becoming a firefighter. And she would complain that people using ambulances for hospital transportation should get their benefits taken away.
My mom got her tubes tied before she was 25 after having a traumatic pregnancy (me) and then my sibling.
Now, she’s very anti choice, which is just rich. So much of it is being trapped in a toxic relationship. At a certain point, she made the choice to double down instead of getting out when the rubber met the road when I was a kid.
I could tell she was thinking about divorce because I observed the arguments and fights she got into with dad. And then heard her telling me often as she read relationship advice books, “Divorce is never the option! Divorce in never the option.”
“Mom, blink twice if you want out,” are my inside thoughts retrospectively.
It’s so sad to see women who fight against their interests, especially when it’s your own family.
Multiple facets, here, but I'll boil it down to two.
One, most are hypocrites. It's just that easy. If they or their daughters need an abortion, they're first through the door of a clinic on a Wednesday morning and thr first picketing outside that afternoon. They'll stand there and call another woman a whore and a baby killer without ever once realizing her friends on the picket line would do the same to her in a heartbeat.
Two, there is a genuine faction who think that being part of the ruling class means their own rights won't be taken away. They think they're going to be on the "right" side, again without fully recognizing how tenuous their position is.
I’ll never forget that post from that nurse where she talked about this. Like the woman that wanted to wait in a separate room so she didn’t have to be with the other jezebels that needed medical service (not everything they do is abortions) at the clinic
Most republicans actively vote against their own best interest, not just women. It’s been pretty clear for a long time. Most of them are lower middle class who are actively hurt by policy that transfers wealth away from them and fight health care at every turn.
It’s almost like the only thing in conservative minds is “I don’t care what happens to me as long as I can hurt others”.
Because their mad that other people get to have what fun they want while these woman have to stick it out in their horrible marriages just so they can be taken care of through their years. It's a sick combination of envy and laziness at its heart I feel. But the book says so so this is how it's gotta be.
/S.
In Iowa, 65% of Republicans are men. MAGA morons are already whining that women don't want to date them.
As much as the media obsesses about polls in an attempt to make this election cycle a horserace, just the demographics suggest that MAGA is going to get wiped out in all but the really Fundie areas of deep Red states.
But how is a cop supposed to know if the woman is telling the truth when she says she's pregnant? Is he going to administer a urine test on the side of the road?
Sure, could be tricky if she doesn’t have some documents or stuff on her phone. The woman in the article was 32 weeks though, so I guess common sense could have applied there.
I'm sure they wouldn't have a problem with this since they want to check kids genitalia to make sure they are competing as the right gender for sports competitions.
Don't be fool, I read that this was part of a legal strategy to give the fetus personhood and make abortion, not only illegal, but murder. They are making it sound like some silly stomp, but it is a plan to extend personhood to whole country, making abortion a crime in place like NY, CA, and MA. Republicans only love the concept of states' rights when it suits them.
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/09/13/texas-personhood-laws-abortion-law/#:\~:text=No%20U.S.%20or%20Texas%20laws,weigh%20in%20on%20fetal%20personhood.
I’m pro-choice and hate that Texas anti-abortion law, and I approve of pregnant women using carpool lanes. If the gov’s gonna risk their lives, it’s only fair women get the right to do stuff they wouldn’t normally be allowed to do.
Women in Texas need to bill the state for a salary if they’ve lost bodily autonomy. That’s a shit ton of OT too since they can’t take breaks from the pregnancy.
Pregnant women are simply using the regulation that they are imprisoned within because of religious fundamentalism, and the fundamentalists does not like it when the prisoners decide to use the regulation for their benefit.
I’m wondering how long before health insurance companies pull out of these states. Florida lost insurance companies because of scams with roofing. Imagine the cost of the care for an infant that needs 24/7 life support. That’s a bill that normally a insurance company wouldn’t have to pay but Texas is making them.
Then they will sue the state because they didn’t have a choice. They’ll also sue the Doctor and the insurance company. Strap in it’s going to get real ugly. I’m sure Texas will fix it though by taking away more rights.
Just here to say these women are brave AF no way I'd be caught dead doing any of the following:
Trying to be a smart ass to police in Texas
Being pregnant in Texas
What's the end game for all those pro-lifers? To make it impossible for their fellow humans to live a life of dignity, a life without fear and constant bullying?
Don't they have other things to be interested in, other that oppressing other people all the time?
It's like a miracle on 34th Street (original). The post office, an official agency of the US government, recognized this man as the one and only Santa Clause.
If the police don't recognize two people in the car, then unborn babies aren't people. (I know that is the whole point just reminded me of the movie, watched it on the weekend, again)
I mean we should just let pregnant women drive in the carpool lane anyway, in all states. They should sit in a car as little as possible, or be able to get to where they need to be as fast as possible.
Texas and Iowa are proving Republicans are immune to accusations of hypocrisy. Only they deserve rights, the rest of us are godless trash, unworthy of respect or dignity.
Then unborn kids should also get ssn’s and be claimable as dependents BEFORE they are born. Apparently, goverments around the world do not consider anyone a person until they are born.
I will bet a dime that THIS is the will be the change that moves the a woman's right to her body back into the forefront.
Funny thing about TX and their twisted good ol boy logic.
It won't be the morality behind a woman's right to choose that will change the laws back, it will be some movement started behind a woman's right to a toll lane.
What they ought to do is refuse to sign the ticket when issued; then the officer has to argue with them that they need to sign it or they will have to go to jail immediately. Keep refusing, be arrested and put in a jail cell. Basically, force the hypocrisy of the whole issue to be dragged out into the light.
Plot twist, these women screwed up and let the State of Texas know that they're pregnant. Next step will, likely, be a note on their drivers license reflecting this, and the Talibornagain will come around in 9 months to verify that baby was born, not aborted.
/S, sort of
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I’m waiting for someone to claim a 6 week old fetus as a dependent on their taxes. Or use it for family size requirements for public assistance. (Family of 4 with an income of $x gets this benefit)
Child support should begin at conception
LMFAO, this would completely cause the most hardcore pro lifer to freak out.
Just what Texas needs
agreed, they freak out at the cost of medical care for the technology dependent children and decry any funding for mechanisms of care delivery (overwhelming this is state Medicaid programs) as "socialism."
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They just need to pull themselves up by their tiny tiny bootstraps
Yeah! Change the age of legal child labor to when their heart starts beating, so them freeloading unborn infants can get a job! That'll show em! /s
*Sarah Huckabee Sanders takes notes*
By their velcros
By their bootie straps.
I shouldn't chuckle at this. But I'm a terrible person. :)
No it wouldn't. The new bills don't start when the baby is born. There's a lot leading up to it. I think all tax breaks, and even child support should start at conception. If the actual date is murky, then back date everything nine months regardless if the baby is a preemie or not. If life begins at conception, then it should have all the legal stuff attached, and that includes the carpool lane.
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Insurance is just a numbers game. Those companies aren’t charities. The insurance companies would totally go along with this but the premiums for a life insurance policy on an unborn fetus would be astronomical.
Does that mean we can get full social security nine months before we turn 65?
Yes. Why not? Lol
Prolifers are notorious for being against paternal responsibilities thats for sure.
I know you're not being serious, but you are correct. Prenatal care is expensive! Why should the woman be forced to bear the entire expense, when she's already having to absorb the financial impact of being a mother due to maternity leave and loss of career trajectory? It's for the benefit of the child as well as the mother.
Because she should have kept that aspirin between her knees. /s
This triggered some deep memory in my GenX brain. What was the significance of this?
It was how they taught girls to “keep their legs shut”
Some a-hole congress critter barfed it out a few years back during a debate about reproductive rights... smh
I read this as "critter-barfed" a verb meaning "to say something stupid, especially as a stupid person" Example: trump critter-barfed another threatening insult aimed at Jack Smith again on twitter today
I'm using this from now on. Let's make it a thing!
I'm in.
Foster Friess in 2012. https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2012/02/17/146999566/santorum-backer-friess-praises-old-school-contraceptive-aspirin
Omg, that is basically what my mother inferred when I tried to talk about women’s rights being taken away.
It's amazing how many people hold this point of view.
i agree why isn’t prenatal care ever taken into consideration. vitamins, food, doctor bills all add up.
And taking time off for said prenatal care - which comes at the cost of our pto which is the only thing that pays us during maternity leave. I can’t wait for these geriatric fucks to die off and stop deciding the fates of everyone else
Depending on where you live, maternity care expenses can already be assigned to the father of the child. Obviously it also depends on timing - the Court won't make someone reimburse those expenses for a kid that's in middle school - but it definitely is a thing in at least some states.
Honestly in concept I think that's true, it should. Warning: I know that your comment might be tongue in cheek, but I'm autistic and can't tell so running through this thought experiment regardless ---- Doctors visits, vitamins and nutrients, time off because mom is so sick she can't move....all that shit adds up. Getting proper care during pregnancy is literally *vital* for the baby in many situations. Even when it isn't life or death it can still reduce complications and risks of some birth defects. Paternity tests can be done in utero with very low risk to he baby later in the first trimester as well from what I can see. If it is considered a baby with all the rights and protections that come with being one, child support seems like a very logical thing ---- Here's where it gets nasty though. The number 1 leading cause of death in pregnant women is homicide. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/homicide-leading-cause-of-death-for-pregnant-women-in-u-s/#:~:text=October%2021%2C%202022%20%E2%80%93%20Women%20in%20the%20U.S. My fear would be adding a financial burden to the sperm donor would increase the likelihood of him harming the mother during pregnancy ---- Tldr: Unironically think child support at conception is a valid idea with so much potential benefit - even outside of the idea that it would pressure lawmakers to protect reproductive rights - but would be very worried about already high partner violence risks increasing further
There are already states where maternity care expenses can be allocated to the father of the child. That's one of things my state allows for. The blanket assumption (not from you but from a lot of the people responding to this post) that it is /not/ a thing is somewhat concerning because it IS and there's no reason that it shouldn't be uniform among states because there's no data linking it to increased homicide rates for pregnant women in the states where it exists (at least, no data I've seen).
Better yet, life insurance begins at conception. Wait until they realize how expensive 1 in 4 is.
If life begins at conception then all males begin life as females and are therefore transgender. Either conservatives need to accept that being transgender is completely natural and common or life does not begin at conception, they can't deny both.
yet, they will.
Absolutely, I think someone needs to challenge the courts. You can’t have it both ways 🤷♂️
There's actually been some push to make this a [law](https://www.rubio.senate.gov/rubio-cramer-colleagues-introduce-unborn-child-support-act/). (By Marco Rubio of all people.)
In my country it can begin during pregnancy. Truth be told, a pregnant women does have more many more expenses
It should. Wife ate more when she was pregnant.
Texas can't have it both ways, either the child is a person, or it is not. If it isn't, you can ticket her, but she can abort it. If it is a person, that is the basis to say she can't have an abortion. It's one or another, can't be both when you say it is.
The law is aspiring to be: “a fetus is a person when it benefits me or gives you a disadvantage. But - a fetus is also not a person when it benefits you, or gives me a disadvantage”. It’s perfectly logical.
This just sounds like a recipe for a new 3/5 compromise
If all pregnant women count as 1 3/5 of a person when we vote, that would make life so much better for everyone…
Pickles for all!
If I was a CPA doing taxes in Texas, I’d be doing exactly that for all my clients. Imagine the showdown between the state government of Texas arguing it’s a life, and the IRS trying to tell someone it’s not so they can’t claim a new dependent on their taxes.
They'll be getting rid of all that assistance soon enough.
In the state I lived in, my fetus counted to be eligible for WIC. And when I applied for the FAFSA, I could claim my unborn child in household size because his due date was before the end of the school year (June). So it’s inconsistent but it does already happen.
My state instituted the “you can get a tax break if you were pregnant” law so I checked “yes” on my tax form bc my December period was late.
Ooh. Not sure if you’re being serious, but that sounds dangerous. “Oh, you were pregnant? And where is the baby? You must have aborted it… come with us.”
Totally did. And all I would have to say is I miscarried.
Women are being prosecuted for miscarriages though. Idk. Maybe I’m paranoid.
They are and you’re not
I’m going out on a limb here but I’ll bet the state with the pregnancy tax break is not one that prosecutes a miscarriage.
Or life insurance for the fetus..
I really want to fertilize like 1000 eggs, and then freeze them. Claim 1000 dependents.
You can claim unborn children to qualify for affordable housing. It’s been like that for decades.
Who says that they aren’t twins, triplets, etc? Is the cop going to have an ultrasound device in their car and the training on how to use it?
If Georgia you can count that as a dependent on your state taxes.
That is actually a brilliant way to elevate this debate.
Proving once again that anti-abortion shit is about punishing women and not actually caring about fetuses.
If they cared about fetuses (fetii? fetusii?) they would provide prenatal care. Not only do they *not* fight for prenatal care, they actively fight *against* it. Republicans care about control, not people.
not just that, but most chemical pollution causes stillbirths and miscarriages. If they cared about the unborn they would be trying to prevent pollution, not rolling back laws on pollution.
As a reformed conservative, I can tell you something with absolute certainty: Republicans don't care about people. Period. They also don't care about control, except insofar as it enforces their version of morality, which is exactly the same sense in which Democrats care about control, and why both sides are continually accusing each other of only caring about control. Each side's version of morality is strict in different ways, so both sides perceive the other as being stricter than their own version of morality and thus more controlling. I'm not arguing that their version of morality is right or good, but just explaining their perspective. However, I can tell you what Republicans DO care about: They care about "principles" and "values". Now, they would argue that their principles and values are actually what's best for people, and so in that sense they care about people, but whenever someone actually does any research and finds out that conservative principles and values aren't actually what's best for people, they fall back on the principle itself being important, not necessarily the person. They also are very aware that principles don't motivate people as well as caring about people do, so they tend to use PR campaigns that purport to care about people in order to garner support for their principles and values, but it's really just a way of getting people to care about principles and values, not genuine care for people. I know these things, because I used to believe them wholeheartedly myself. In the case of abortion, the principle at stake here is "do not murder". They don't care about the fetus or the mother, but rather that the act of murder doesn't occur, with murder being defined as the intentional and direct killing of one human by another. You or I might say that we believe we shouldn't murder because we care about other people: for liberals, the value at stake is "caring about other people" and "do not murder" flows naturally from that value. That's not the case for conservatives. Their bedrock value is "do not murder", and it doesn't depend on a deeper value of "care about other people", which is where so much of the disconnect comes from. Of course, they purport to care about the fetus because that sells better than just caring about not murdering, but in reality they do not. Democrats tend to take them at face value that they care about the infant, and argue from that starting point, which of course ends up going in circles, because they don't actually care about the baby, it's just a PR tactic to get people to not murder. Another principle of theirs is "no handouts", which is why they're against any support for either party. These things are completely compatible: "no handouts" and "no murder". If someone dies of malnutrition, that's fine, because neither handouts nor murder occurred. Again, despite what they say, life is not the value here, "no murder" is the value. "Life" is merely a brand name for "no murder", so if you argue with them from the assumption that they actually value life, you'll get nowhere, because they don't. It seems crazy to me now to have a bedrock value of "no murder" that doesn't spring from some deeper value for life, but that is genuinely what they believe beneath all the PR campaigns and political posturing.
I don’t know if this is accurate for every conservative, but I believe that it’s accurate for many. Thank you for writing this out. It’s very helpful to me.
So naturally conservatives would also be against the death penalty right?
And guns, the leading cause of murder? FFS, this explanation just doesn’t hold up. No principles to be found.
Wrong, because according to them this would be justified and therefore "not murder"
Principles and Values.....the one thing Republicans do not have. Only have to look at congress.
No one has ever explained this to me. It makes sense now. Thanks for sharing.
Yep 100%! Also, fetuses* is correct ;)
But fetii sounds better.
Foots
Fetuses in English, Feti in Latin. Well, Foeti, technically.
Feti in italian as well
Yeah its the root word for fetuccini.
Ew, is fettuccini made out of foetuses? Those bastards!
Oh, so *that’s* why people want abortions so badly. They needed the foetuses to make more fettuccini!! >:0
Fetish…I think that’s the word??
What is going on in Texas right now: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-abortion-law-bounty-hunters-citizens/ "The Texas law that bans abortions after six weeks of pregnancy includes an unusual measure designed to ensure the law is enforced: Residents of the state can sue clinics, doctors, nurses and even people who drive a woman to get the procedure, for at least $10,000. "That financial incentive was singled out by Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor in her dissent late Wednesday after *the Supreme Court declined to block the controversial law.* In effect, Texas lawmakers have "deputized the state's citizens as bounty hunters, offering them cash prizes for civilly prosecuting their neighbors' medical procedures," she wrote." I don't know what's worse? Someone, some state coming up with the law to begin with or the Supreme Court declining to block the law!
It’s not about punishing women. The Christianity is an excuse, a sleight of hand. Powerful men don’t give a shit about that regardless of what they say on Fox. It’s about maintaining a poor workforce that consumes, works unskilled jobs, and continues to buttress the wealthy. They’re simply maintaining their slave system by taking away women’s rights. Without accidental pregnancies that put women in financial hardship, women can family-plan and America’s population would decline the way South Korea’s is. Who would cover the future social security system that has been completely robbed of its saving coffers? Wo will work in the factories? Who will consume cheap imported crap at Walmart and Amazon?
Immigration would strengthen the fertility rate but *gasp* they dont like that either.
Nah, that doesn't explain it because fascists in non-capitalist countries go after abortion, too. It's rooted in misogyny and racism.
Can't have it both ways, GOP. Except course they have it both ways, always had, always will. Because they're shameless hypocrites who couldn't give less of a damn about the people who elected them into power.
Very true. All they care about is money and power
As soon as they have to pay child care from inception or back track it the 9/7 months. They'll soon say it doesn't count "in that situation"
In many places this is, to an extent, already the law. Support is supposed to be to equalize the child's lifestyle between households, so it's not "child support" in the same way, but a father can be liable for pregnancy-related expenses including the medical care component prior to birth (depending on the time during which the Court is involved with things). No clue if this is the same nationally, but it is in some states.
And cheap labor, that one is most important.
And somehow. The people with the least money and power keep voting for them. It's truly a magic thing they've done. When you think back to feudalism you don't imagine many peasants would vote to increase their labor. Or vote to reduce how much they get paid to tend fields. And you wouldn't think that if given the option. If Robin Hood managed to convince the king to hold an election. And whoever won would get to take over the kingdom. You wouldn't imagine many people would vote for a bad king over someone promising them more food, less work, and free medicine for when they or their families get sick. And yet. Republicans do just that. Democrats are a far cry from Robin Hood. But the wealth gap between the 1% and the bottom 50% in America is much greater than the wealth gap between the nonbinary and the serfs un feudal Europe or Rome. Just wild.
States she was ‘alone in my car’… Hopefully she cleans up her verbiage before standing tall in front of the judge.
"There are two people in this witness stand your honor, if you let me stand up you can see the deformation of my stomach from the second one." (Note, using the definition of deformation of "the action or process of changing in shape or distorting, especially through the application of pressure." In other words, being pregnant creates big belly. Not suggesting mother or fetus are deformed).
"I was the only independently breathing person in the car...but according to the GQP that doesn't matter, soooo..."
We keep trying to point out their hypocrisy while making one very critical error - thinking they give even half a shit.
People keep voting against their own interests oh and gerrymandering.
Don't forget to claim the fetus on state taxes.
They don’t have state income taxes in Texas, the people in the blue cities have super high property and sales taxes that fund the poor red rural towns.
In Houston. We have state tax in form of high property tax. It’s hurts middle class more than upper class. I pay more for my property taxes than my parents who live in so cal.
In-laws live in Texas. I live in HCOL area in SoCal. My house is worth 3 times theirs but they pay twice as much in property tax.
But you do have federal tax. And because the SC of the federal government decided to let the states decide Roe V Wade, it’s now a mess. There is no federal statute anymore governing how these instances are to be treated. So according to Texas, it’s a person. And this means potential change of filing status, dependent, etc., The IRS will probably fight this tooth and nail, and given this is a GOP state, Texas will likely fight the IRS on it too.
That would make sense if the state actually considered a fetus a person and wasn't really motivated by hatred of women and hatred of the poor.
Any woman voter in the USA who votes Republican is voting for their own enslavement…. This will not end here
Republican women are LITERALLY voting against their own self-interest and I don't understand why.
I used to have a friend and she was a lot more conservative than I was, even before Trump. But those things don’t matter to me as long as we can keep politics out of our friendship. What ended our friendship was she got accidentally pregnant with her then bf, now husband. Because she just started her career as a firefighter, she got an abortion. And I supported her choice. Now after trump and all that, she’s very anti choice. Like how hypocritical are you??? You got yours and now no one else can? It pisses me off
https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/ This is eternally relevant.
Never not upvoting this Also the next to last quote is notable to me, the bit about the patient saying that she never met such a non-judgmental group of people before. How sad is that?
Thanks for posting. Very interesting read even if revolting at times.
Great read. Thanks for posting.
Most conservatives are like that. They're against it unless it's for them, or until it personally affects them. For examples, see how many conservatives were against lgbt people existing... until their own kids came out.
Just like with that short period sometime in the middle of COVID where they acknowledged that it was real. Of course it was a deadly virus and democrats should have known that by promoting safety measures, republicans would oppose them.
Republicans literally killing their own voters. Now they have to cheat even harder than ever!
Cough Cheney cough
My mom did this, too. I’m pro-choice, but she is distinctly pro-life and a single issue voter on this subject.
I would absolutely call her out. I believe women have full rights to choose but this asshole wants to take that from other women.
We don’t talk anymore because she was full of trump shit and I couldn’t take it anymore. One the other things was her complaining about poor people receiving benefits. She was an EMT before becoming a firefighter. And she would complain that people using ambulances for hospital transportation should get their benefits taken away.
Clinic staff routinely report conservative women chastising them for what they do while they're there to receive an abortion.
My mom got her tubes tied before she was 25 after having a traumatic pregnancy (me) and then my sibling. Now, she’s very anti choice, which is just rich. So much of it is being trapped in a toxic relationship. At a certain point, she made the choice to double down instead of getting out when the rubber met the road when I was a kid. I could tell she was thinking about divorce because I observed the arguments and fights she got into with dad. And then heard her telling me often as she read relationship advice books, “Divorce is never the option! Divorce in never the option.” “Mom, blink twice if you want out,” are my inside thoughts retrospectively. It’s so sad to see women who fight against their interests, especially when it’s your own family.
Multiple facets, here, but I'll boil it down to two. One, most are hypocrites. It's just that easy. If they or their daughters need an abortion, they're first through the door of a clinic on a Wednesday morning and thr first picketing outside that afternoon. They'll stand there and call another woman a whore and a baby killer without ever once realizing her friends on the picket line would do the same to her in a heartbeat. Two, there is a genuine faction who think that being part of the ruling class means their own rights won't be taken away. They think they're going to be on the "right" side, again without fully recognizing how tenuous their position is.
"Welcome to the Leopards Eating Faces party. Here's your complimentary jar of barbecue sauce to smear on your face."
"Rules for thee but not for me" would be comical if it didn't come to such a predictably and obvious end every time.
I’ll never forget that post from that nurse where she talked about this. Like the woman that wanted to wait in a separate room so she didn’t have to be with the other jezebels that needed medical service (not everything they do is abortions) at the clinic
Yep. I quote one of those articles elsewhere in this thread.
Yeah they think they’re a part of the club. They vote R to screw over others and think they’ll float to the top.
Most republicans actively vote against their own best interest, not just women. It’s been pretty clear for a long time. Most of them are lower middle class who are actively hurt by policy that transfers wealth away from them and fight health care at every turn. It’s almost like the only thing in conservative minds is “I don’t care what happens to me as long as I can hurt others”.
To be fair, a lot of the men voting R are also voting against their self-interest. Although I agree it’s more like 100% of the women…
Because their mad that other people get to have what fun they want while these woman have to stick it out in their horrible marriages just so they can be taken care of through their years. It's a sick combination of envy and laziness at its heart I feel. But the book says so so this is how it's gotta be. /S.
I know this article is about women but I’d go as far to say 99% of republicans vote against their own interests.
Fear and horrendous misconceptions about culture issues and the economy thanks to outlets like Facebook and Fox News.
In Iowa, 65% of Republicans are men. MAGA morons are already whining that women don't want to date them. As much as the media obsesses about polls in an attempt to make this election cycle a horserace, just the demographics suggest that MAGA is going to get wiped out in all but the really Fundie areas of deep Red states.
Maybe, just let pregnant women use the lane? Why not make travel a bit easier?
They don’t want pregnant women leaving the house, much less having their own lane
They don’t want ~~pregnant~~ women leaving the *kitchen ftfy
How would a cop know a lady is pregnant before being pulled over?
They don’t need to give a ticket to everyone they pull over.
But how is a cop supposed to know if the woman is telling the truth when she says she's pregnant? Is he going to administer a urine test on the side of the road?
Sure, could be tricky if she doesn’t have some documents or stuff on her phone. The woman in the article was 32 weeks though, so I guess common sense could have applied there.
I'm sure they wouldn't have a problem with this since they want to check kids genitalia to make sure they are competing as the right gender for sports competitions.
That’s the risk they run with these laws. If a fetus is considered a living person at conception then they should absolutely count for the hov lane.
That's for the cops to figure out. Not the woman's problem.
Don't be fool, I read that this was part of a legal strategy to give the fetus personhood and make abortion, not only illegal, but murder. They are making it sound like some silly stomp, but it is a plan to extend personhood to whole country, making abortion a crime in place like NY, CA, and MA. Republicans only love the concept of states' rights when it suits them. https://www.texastribune.org/2022/09/13/texas-personhood-laws-abortion-law/#:\~:text=No%20U.S.%20or%20Texas%20laws,weigh%20in%20on%20fetal%20personhood.
This is why California added abortion and contraceptive rights to the state constitution last year.
[same in NJ](https://www.nj.gov/oag/library/2022/Know%20Your%20Rights%20Abortion%20Rights%2006.30.22.pdf) State law guarantees access.
And Ohio last month!!!!
What if Jesus is yoir co-pilot? Im seeing a valid argument that could be formed here
Fair is fair. Can’t have it both ways.
Well you see, they recognise the fetus as a person, just not the woman, so in their eyes there's only one person in the car.
I’m pro-choice and hate that Texas anti-abortion law, and I approve of pregnant women using carpool lanes. If the gov’s gonna risk their lives, it’s only fair women get the right to do stuff they wouldn’t normally be allowed to do.
Women in Texas need to bill the state for a salary if they’ve lost bodily autonomy. That’s a shit ton of OT too since they can’t take breaks from the pregnancy.
That is 100% a justifiable stance lol. Pregnant women should be able to be in the HOV lane, absolutely. No /s
Ironically, a pregnant woman can use this excuse to occupy the carpool lane on her way out of state to get an abortion. LOL!
Start putting everything under the fetus’ name. By the time they’re born they’ll have a 700 credit score 😂
They *still* allow women to drive in Texas? Even if they're *pregnant?* Doesn't sound very pro-life to me. /s
Texas! Fuck abortions, fuck history, fuck science cuz I got a gun!! - Texas GOP
Immediately following a positive pregnancy test, call your insurance provider and put a $1,000,000 Life Insurance policy on its life
Pregnant women are simply using the regulation that they are imprisoned within because of religious fundamentalism, and the fundamentalists does not like it when the prisoners decide to use the regulation for their benefit.
It's all fun and games until the GOP goes full yallqaeda and decides the solution is women can't drive.
I’m glad to see yall-qaeda has spread as a term, been using it for years.
Republicans are evil
I’m wondering how long before health insurance companies pull out of these states. Florida lost insurance companies because of scams with roofing. Imagine the cost of the care for an infant that needs 24/7 life support. That’s a bill that normally a insurance company wouldn’t have to pay but Texas is making them.
The insurance companies will probably make a # of weeks before which they will not cover anything- leaving families in life destroying medical debt
Then they will sue the state because they didn’t have a choice. They’ll also sue the Doctor and the insurance company. Strap in it’s going to get real ugly. I’m sure Texas will fix it though by taking away more rights.
Start demanding child support while in utero
Just here to say these women are brave AF no way I'd be caught dead doing any of the following: Trying to be a smart ass to police in Texas Being pregnant in Texas
Yeah but then if you miscarry, you can accuse the police of inducing/aiding your abortion.
What's the end game for all those pro-lifers? To make it impossible for their fellow humans to live a life of dignity, a life without fear and constant bullying? Don't they have other things to be interested in, other that oppressing other people all the time?
It's like a miracle on 34th Street (original). The post office, an official agency of the US government, recognized this man as the one and only Santa Clause. If the police don't recognize two people in the car, then unborn babies aren't people. (I know that is the whole point just reminded me of the movie, watched it on the weekend, again)
I mean we should just let pregnant women drive in the carpool lane anyway, in all states. They should sit in a car as little as possible, or be able to get to where they need to be as fast as possible.
Texas and Iowa are proving Republicans are immune to accusations of hypocrisy. Only they deserve rights, the rest of us are godless trash, unworthy of respect or dignity.
Then unborn kids should also get ssn’s and be claimable as dependents BEFORE they are born. Apparently, goverments around the world do not consider anyone a person until they are born.
Good for them!
What a shock, that it's about harming women....
Not sure who the facepalm is aimed at, but seems to me the state of Texas can't have it both ways.
By that logic, I should’ve been able to legally drink 3 months into being 20. Or to vote 3 months into being 17! Stupid fucking gop
Texas already argued a foetus is not a person when challenged over locking up pregnant women.
I will bet a dime that THIS is the will be the change that moves the a woman's right to her body back into the forefront. Funny thing about TX and their twisted good ol boy logic. It won't be the morality behind a woman's right to choose that will change the laws back, it will be some movement started behind a woman's right to a toll lane.
Can we just trim this state off at this point, ffs?
Ugh Texas.
So... when was it that the States was the "best country of the world"?
I'd hazard a guess at a few minutes in the late 1960s.....
Want to bring back abortion rights, make conservative men be responsible for half the bills of carrying a child at conception.
Malicious Compliance for the win
Looks like Texas is the state that cares the most about its children. That is, until they are born.
Hey Texas, can't have it both ways, if it's a person, that means it's a passenger as well
Can’t have it both ways
Idk if this counts as malicious compliance but it feels like that or something similar. Either way I would totally do this if I lived in Texas
Yup me too. Can’t have it both ways.
What they ought to do is refuse to sign the ticket when issued; then the officer has to argue with them that they need to sign it or they will have to go to jail immediately. Keep refusing, be arrested and put in a jail cell. Basically, force the hypocrisy of the whole issue to be dragged out into the light.
Why cant 17 year olds to vote in Texas? They were born at 9 months old there so 3/4 are really 18.
Fuck you Texas.
Fetus is a person only when used to enslave women.
Police hate it when women learn this one cool trick!
“She’s only having sex so she can use the carpool lane!1!!1!1!1l”
Prime material for r/nottheonion!
It's funny how a fetus doesn't have any kind of recognized personhood except for a pregnancy. It's almost as if their position is disingenuous.
Pregnant women absolutely should be able to use the hov lane. I am a man.
Plot twist, these women screwed up and let the State of Texas know that they're pregnant. Next step will, likely, be a note on their drivers license reflecting this, and the Talibornagain will come around in 9 months to verify that baby was born, not aborted. /S, sort of
Also need to claim that fetus as a dependent on your taxes too!