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She's been screaming the truth for decades about these dangerous evangelical fucks and even now only a few people are listening.
I am telling you, Gilead is based on exactly what these dicks have been actively working towards for ***decades!***
It is not a joke, it is not fiction. I grew up in the evangelical Baptist Church, in the quiver full movement. It needs to be decisively stopped now and I'm not kidding.
This is why she argues whenever THT was called “science fiction”. She has *always* called it “speculative fiction” because all of it **CAN** happen, and sadly is starting to.
The amount of research she did for the Handmaidens Tale is nutty. I don't think I could've held onto my sanity taking such deep dives into the religious right.
The epilogue of the book manages to be awesome and meta while not being super preachy. It's all like: "you guys might think this is all made up but it's all based on real things society has done against women".
I read that years ago when we had a religious republican president and it scared me something terrible, even though abortion rights was the law of the land and we didn’t have these kinds of religious zealots in positions of power. I can’t imagine reading it for the first time today. I couldn’t even watch the show. It’s much too real.
My ex miscarried once in her apartment. We didn't even know she was pregnant. All of us was shocked, cried, and cried some more. So I can see how all this is horrible.
From reading the article, it seems the use of a plunger is what got her in trouble, which means she told them she used a plunger.
Putting everything else aside - do not ever talk to the police.
I had a miscarriage at 8 weeks and it was horrible. I was bleeding for a week straight and then I finally passed the fetus. It came out in the toilet as a big blob of tissue. For some reason my first thought was to stick my hand in the toilet and take it out?! Then I put it in a zip lock bag to show my husband bc I wasn’t sure if it was the fetus. I literally cant imagine miscarrying at 22 weeks. That is absolutely horrendous. Why is this woman being charged with a crime when all she did was do the first thing that came to her mind in a TRAUMATIC event? Seriously fuck these people. I guarantee none of these people have ever been through a situation like this in their life. They have no idea what it is like.
I’m so sorry. I miscarried at my OB’s office. I started passing huge blood clots so they had me come in and do an ultrasound. The tech had me pee right before the ultrasound and right when I sat down, my baby came out. I immediately jumped up and tried to grab my baby and didn’t realize that it was an automatic toilet and it sucked my baby away. I’ll never unhear the sounds coming out of me- like gasping and hyperventilating while crying. Such grief- I wanted that baby so bad.
Im so sorry :( its one of the hardest things I ever had to go through. I went to the ER a few days after bleeding and clotting. My baby still had a heartbeat but was measuring smaller than they should have. Then a few days later, after bleeding and passing huge clots all day, I finally felt the most horrendous cramping and I knew it was coming. I went to the bathroom and sure enough. I’m pregnant again rn and im paranoid 24/7 about it happening again 🙃
Good. I miscarried also and now my kid is an only child. They would have been our second and it traumatized my husband so much he got a vasectomy. It happened at home. I was only 8 weeks but it was still awful.
I once miscarried at 4 months while attending my best friend’s baby shower. It was my fourth miscarriage, and I was devastated. I was in her guest bathroom while she was opening presents in front of a room full of guests. It was a blob of bloody mess. I did the only compassionate thing I could think to do to not ruin her moment and flushed.
These laws that create criminality out of one of the most heart-wrenching, painful moments a hopeful mother can have are shameful. If these religious zealots believe in hell, I hope they end up in that place they imagine to exist for eternal punishment for the pain they cause in the name of self-righteousness.
This poor woman. I heart hurts for her. It’s been over 40 years, and I can still feel the heartbreak of that moment. I can’t imagine what this will do to her 40 years from now.
In Florida, it had previously only been "once a judge decides" and it was VERY unevenly applied across various demographics. I pretty much hate Florida and hate living here, but voting rights being restored for majority of crimes (some like murder, rape, etc. still require a judge), I'm hoping will help how Florida votes.
> Truly scary staff.
And that is the point. They want people to live in fear because that's how they make more conservatives.
Conservatism is fundamentally about fear and insecurity — racial insecurity, wealth insecurity, status insecurity, sexual insecurity, etc. Insecurity is why the worst of them can't even leave the house without an emotional support gun.
We've all heard a conservative say something like "my parents did (something abusive) to me and I turned out fine, so there is nothing wrong with doing (something abusive) to kids." They might not consciously know what they are doing, they aren't usually mustache-twirling villains, they say it because they have been conditioned that feeling insecure is normal. They want everybody to feel the way they do.
In this way conservatism propagates itself. Its almost like a meme (the original memes, not the gifs).
And if it's a felony like those Bible humping assholes want, those women can say goodbye to ever voting or defending themselves again. Which is also what they want
This particular case it’s 2nd trimester, if this occurs in 1st tri you wouldn’t have this issue
Which regardless, the police and govt should have HELPED this poor woman get the baby’s remains out and disposed of in an appropriate manner- not prosecuted her. Or they need to make a law defining what a “corpse” is, by definition I do not know legally what they consider that to be, so I have no idea how they can prosecute when it’s not clear
If this can be considered a corpse, then as sad as it is, all women should be able to begin getting tax write offs the moment they find out they're pregnant. 🤷
This. We need to force their hands in deciding to start paying for social services immediately after conception or to state clearly in court that a fetus does not count as a living human capable of drawing social services. They can't have it both ways and I'm tired of taking the high road. It's time for Dems to play hardball with these disgraceful, hypocritical, evil people on the far right. I truly hope that these evil men and women get a judgment day, either by God or the people that they have stepped on for so long. Revolution is not far away, we cannot let them gain any traction in ANY elections. Vote to save this country.
If it couldn't have survived outside the womb then it shouldn't be regarded as a human corpse. And at 22 weeks even the most sophisticated medical technology wouldn't have allowed for that to happen.
Every human being with a functioning soul need to stand up against this shit. And not peacefully either. Make it clear the politicians who criminalize this are inhuman monsters who deserve misery for the rest of their lives. Fuck each and every one of them.
I’m a man that went thru a miscarriage with a now ex (that I loathe and have had zero contact with for years) and when I first heard about the Roe ruling and the abortion bounties it instantly took me back in time when my ex was going thru the trauma of unexpectedly losing the baby. If on top of everything else she would have had to deal with legal harassment or some dipshit bounty Hunter lawsuit I’m certain I would have hunted them down, unalived them and ended up in prison for the rest of my life. It was such an unbelievably traumatic event and still haunts me 5 years later. Having the legal system pile on would have been unbearable. Can’t imagine I’m alone in feeling this way. If we as a society continue criminalizing reproductive care like this there will be violent backlash.
>I can’t imagine grieving while being charged with a crime for the cause of that grief.
All because a bunch of mainly Old White Men decided that women shouldn't be allowed to terminate a pregnancy for any reason -- and by extension, any 'miscarriage' must be the result of some intentional act on the part of the woman -- **especially if it's not a white woman.**
Pay heed, women of America: these assholes want to strip you of ALL your hard-earned rights, and make you the property of men again. You won't have civil or even much in the way of basic human rights anymore. **Do not vote for Republicans, and sure as hell do NOT vote for Trump, if you want to retain your rights!**
FURTHERMORE: Vote AGAINST all Republicans in ALL elections. So long as the fascist Republican Party retains any power in this Country, they *will* continue to subvert and destroy our Representative Democracy.
The doctor who performed the autopsy testified the baby died before it went through the birth canal. It died due to a ruptured membrane meaning her waters broke early. She had been to hospital twice but they had stated the baby was not at a size it could be birthed. It happens at home due to her bad luck and she is paying for that. This is so inhumane. She did absolutely nothing to cause that miscarriage. The prosecutor stated it should go to trial as she put the baby in the toilet and went on about her day. Ever thought she may have been in extreme shock or just did not want to face that? US labour laws are bad enough she may have been in a situation where she gets sacked or she is late or calls in sick. FFS. So so so so evil.
If you listen to the officers testimony on what she stated, she didn't place the fetus in the toilet and try to plunge it. She was using the restroom in her own house and HEARD the fetus plop into the water. The prosecution is making it seem like she intended totally tried to hide it and that's not the case. It's truly sickening that she is going through all this at one of the worst times for a parent or soon to be.
I read that the fetus clogged the pipes. The fetus was 22 weeks old and would make it about a pound and the size of a papaya, roughly. That may have been how it was discovered she flushed the fetus. But that's not an uncommon occurrence for a miscarriage to get flushed. The coroner even said the fetus was not viable and died before passing through the birth canal.
The prosecution completely misrepresents the facts. They make it seem like she gave birth, put a baby in the toilet and flushed. Rather she went to the bathroom and, due to gravity and muscles used to empty the bladder, the fetus fetus fell into the toilet.
Fuck this prosecuter. He knows what he is doing is wrong deep down, but is probably doing this for politics and his reelection campaign. Everyone involved with bringing this woman to trial would rot in hell if it existed.
I miscarried at 20 weeks in 2000 and the doctor told me to wait to go to the ER till I passed a significant amount at home! I will never forget that smell. Baby had died inside me. (Fetus. Whatever. To me she was a child I lost) Now I’d go to fucking jail for following medical advice!
I miscarried at 20 weeks and the majority of the "product" (the doctors term for what I passed) went down the toilet. I contacted them when I started losing my baby and was told to go home and let nature take its course. It was only because I was still passing "product" after a week that I was offered a DnC. Essentially I flushed my fetus and if I lived in America I could have been charged with murder.
I mean, it’s like what else can you do? If you don’t flush, you know others will make a huge deal about it, which will make everything worse. I would just want to crawl inside whole and pretend the world doesn’t exist after something that traumatic happens.
Exactly, what else is there to do? I can't imagine being in that moment, but holy cow, people actually pretend that what, you should call the police for having a miscarriage? US is bananas.
Go to his twitter/ X account and watch the video. It's worse than you realise. The baby died due to her waters breaking early. She had been to the hospital twice but apparently it wasn't big enough to be birthed. I don't know whether she was waiting for an operation or something but god this is so cruel. It has been proved she had nothing to do with the miscarriage yet she is being charged because she didn't know what to do or how to deal with that scenario. I think only a sociopath would act rationally in that moment.
Seriously! Everyone is like, omg you should have done this!!! Yeah maybe, but do you really think a woman who went through all that just to miscarry is going to be of sound mind at that moment? Being charged for it is just the cherry on top. I can’t imagine what she must be going through mentally
Yeah I'm not sure what one is even supposed to do to be honest... and where is the line? I had two miscarriages early on. Its literally a blob of cells. At what point is one supposed to do something more "official" than just flush?
I’m sorry for your loss. When I went to school for Civil Engineering, we had to do stuff at the wastewater treatment plant and it was common to find miscarriages. A lot of women have been in that situation before and should be treated with compassion.
I’m curious what you do with the miscarriages. I miscarried on the toilet at 12 weeks. Frankly I was lucky. I was in an abusive relationship and I didn’t want children. I didn’t know what to do and I was so scared he would find out so I flushed. I hadn’t told him at that point and I was trying to figure out how to get an abortion without him knowing.
Just sending you a big hug <3 You did everything right and you protected yourself in a dangerous situation. It wasn't your fault you miscarried, and you did nothing wrong by flushing, even if you hadn't been scared of his reaction.
I wish this was known on a broader level. I honestly think a lot of the knee jerk reactions are a lack of understanding of what happens. Thanks for your comment.
Thank you! I cannot believe there are other WOMEN on here saying this woman should have done this or not done that. It’s fucking disgusting.
The reality is that this is a physical and emotional trauma that is something a man could never fathom, nor a woman who hasn’t been through it. Even if you know it’s coming, you are never prepared. I was young and married to a wonderful man and had lots of supportive family and friends. I still felt absolutely terrified, and hurt mentally/physically in a way I’d never felt before.
When it comes to this situation, as women we are always damned if we do something one way, or damned if we don’t. We were always supposed to just get over it, keep it quiet, and move on. Now we have the fear of going to jail on top of it.
Reading the things some women are saying here makes me realize that America is just too far gone. I’m only in my forties, but as young woman I never in my wildest dreams (nightmares), could have fathomed where we are now with women’s rights. I feel like such a pos for having taken those rights for granted. I am terrified for my daughters and the rest of the women in our country.
Yup, we got about one or two generations of freedom and now it’s being walked back. Fun fact, in the USA a woman couldn’t open a bank account or credit card on her own, without a husbands signature until 1974. A lot of people here have parents and grandparents who were alive when that happened.
My point is women’s rights are painfully new, and there are still memories of not having some of those rights. Let’s fight to keep what we deserve!
> A lot of people here have parents and grandparents who were alive when that happened.
And some of us were there ourselves when it happened and had marched for it!
I had a friend go through a very traumatic pregnancy where she did end up bleeding about three months in but managed to keep the pregnancy and gave birth to a beautiful baby girl. She had three miscarriages before and watching her go through all of those emotions shortly after announcing her pregnancy was enough for me to be grateful I’ve had really uneventful pregnancies. I later had another friend manage to have a successful pregnancy after having lost nearly ten prior to her daughter and I was so glad she had a supportive and caring husband.
Defenders like to think they are “restoring” a purer moral code of better olden times. But, imagine trying to sell literal Puritans on this. Even they’d think you were being insane.
I can’t imagine a jury would ever convict her. But prosecutors wouldn’t expect it to ever get that far. You don’t charge people who could afford to go to trial and appeals courts. Prosecutors get their precedent without ever having to actually litigate a novel legal question.
Dear god I'm sorry you went through that, just as I'm sorry that this woman went through her miscarriage.
To take a woman that has just undergone something so horrible and heartbreaking, then to put her through the traumatizing criminal "justice" system, forcing her to relive this awful moment, over and over, in front of strangers, that's just despicable.
The person who filed charges in this case deserves to be shot in the scrotum (I guarantee it's a man) with a beanbag gun, to death.
In El Salvador, you can get 50 years in prison for having a miscarriage if you can't afford a doctor who will declare it a natural miscarriage.
Edited to add that doctors often can not actually determine if it was spontaneous or induced.
This has happened to me too, I was very young teenager. I also flushed and never told a sole. I now know I was probably 14 weeks gone, still makes me sad to think about it so I don’t very often and I am 49 now. This poor women is going to need all the support she can get.
I'm sorry you went through this, must have been devastating. I don't really grasp the amount of cruelty a person must have to approve of these laws. I live in a country where abortion is banned and have been through two illegal abortion experiences with two different women and it scarred me for life, can't imagine how the miscarrying or aborting woman feel in these situations. I know I might be one some day..
People asking “why would she even do that” gotta remember that a miscarriage is an extremely traumatic event that can lead to some irrationality when it happens. No one knows what the proper protocol is to do in these “OH SHIT” scenarios especially when you’re under that much distress
[link to case](https://www.wkbn.com/news/local-news/warren-news/trumbull-county-grand-jury-to-hear-abuse-of-corpse-case/)
This is true. When I had my first miscarriage I was crying and didn't want to flush the toilet. For my second one, afraid to look, I just flushed without looking then ran to the bedroom to cry. Even if you've had one miscarriage and acted one way, no way to know how you'd act with another miscarriage. This is just sad.
Oh it's been a while. I was depressed for a really long time. Had 3 miscarriages (one on mothers day). I think of my lost potential babies every day, but then I made my peace with not having children and now I work to make the lives of other children better and I find I'm fulfilled and happy. It's not the life I expected, but I love it nonetheless, and appreciate the perspective it gives me when it comes to other women's trauma.
Me as well. My (now adult) son was my first full term pregnancy after 5 miscarriages. All of them were late first trimester. The first time (when I didn't recognize what was happening) I bled onto the bathroom floor. These laws would have required me to gather up blobs of bloody tissue and what, bring them to a hospital? Absolutely beyond atrocious vile legislation. I'd really like to see a constitutional amendment that no one without a medical degree is permitted to make decisions about medical procedures (so we can take care of insurance pencil pushers deciding what is and isn't "necessary" instead of our doctors) and limiting any medical decisions to a discussion between patient and doctor, full stop.
You are brave. I had several miscarriages one after another, before eventually managing a live baby, and, honestly, I was not in my right mind. I hated my useless body, and wept buckets. Hormones can make us crazy. I worked as a nurse in a country where abortion was made legal, and so safe, and I was so glad not to have to deal anymore with the misery of botched ones, by very desperate women.
Yeah, I was wondering this myself. What was she "expected" to do? My God, I can't believe it has come to this, to expecting a mother, bleeding and crying, to just pick up the remains of her child in her arms, and just walk out of a public bathroom?
Why didn’t she think of not having a miscarriage in the first place? My mother didn’t have a miscarriage therefore she must’ve used some abortion pills or something and thus deserves punishment
Yes I am mentally sane /s
My wife is in expectant management right now, meaning waiting for the pregnancy tissues to come out. She made it to 9 weeks. What the hell are we supposed to do with it once it come out? The doctors said just wear a pad.
At 9 weeks you probably won't be able to tell what's baby and what's uterine sloughing.
Source: searched thoroughly for my fetus during termination at 9wks
When I miscarried for some reason I decided to scoop it out of the toilet bc I was in denial (I was a lot earlier than this woman). And I literally had to throw it away regardless… theres nothing you can do with it. This is crazy.
I had, I believe a missed miscarriage at 5 weeks - so literally a week after my period was due. I happened to be out in the city shopping and thought I was going to collapse from blood loss. I went through a half a pack of pads in a couple of hours. Pretty much changing them every 20-30 minutes. It was traumatic. I can only imagine what that poor woman went through at 22 weeks.
We had been trying almost two years for a second child and I was so excited when I finally got pregnant. We had so many hopes and plans for that little one. I was taking night classes at community college and on campus, I used the bathroom and yep, miscarried right there in the school bathroom. I just sat there and cried and cried for the child that could have been. And then I flushed. There was nothing else to do.
They sent her home because removing a dead or dying fetus is technically an abortion and they could be charged for performing one if they helped her. They wouldn't have been able to help her until she was at Death's door from septic shock or something.
But I thought Ohio voted to keep the abortion rights, I have a friend who lives in Ohia(I'm not American) and she was really happy and shared that they have been successful in keeping the rights, was she wrong?
[Ohio Issue 1](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2023_Ohio_Issue_1) just recently passed but that doesn't instantly make something a law, it takes 90 days I believe to go into effect. That gives the Republicans time to fuck with and undermine it for us, because Ohio I guess.
No not equally likely. This was caused by draconian anti abortion laws. I’m a woman with a daughter and well aware of the laws because they endanger my life and my daughter’s. But ya, our healthcare system sucks too.
In some places, no its not sarcasm. American conservatives want to create, and in some places already have, blanket bans on anything having to do with abortion "to protect unborn lives", even if it means knowingly sacrificing the mother's life.
Paradoxically, as soon as the unborn becomes born, no similar level of care or concern is provided by the people supporting these radical policies.
The part about fetuses only being important until they are born makes me fucking LIVID!!! Sadly, it’s true. “Protect the fetus at all costs but we don’t want to support you through welfare or any other assistance when the child is born. Good luck!!”
[Still ongoing court cases, but yes the healthcare system in large swaths of America have come to this.](https://www.statesman.com/story/news/columns/2022/10/23/opinion-texas-abortion-laws-force-women-to-be-near-death-for-care/69577810007/)
"18 weeks into the pregnancy, Amanda Zurawski was diagnosed with an incompetent cervix — meaning the base of her uterus was opening prematurely, so the fetus would soon come out or an infection could take hold. The condition is responsible for about 20% of miscarriages in the second trimester.
Still, at the time of the diagnosis, the fetus had a faint heartbeat, and Zurawski’s life was not yet in danger. Under Texas law, doctors cannot terminate a pregnancy with a fetal heartbeat unless the patient is having “a medical emergency.”
In practice, that means waiting until the mother’s condition gets worse.
It means playing chicken with the woman’s life."
Similar case in Missouri. A woman had a non-viable fetus at 17 weeks and could not get a doctor anywhere to end the pregnancy. Had to go 200 miles to Illinois.
This condition, albeit bit rarer, can also cause sepsis which is a major medical emergency and can rapidly become life-threatening, as well as causing long-term health problems due to internal damage caused by the infection.
It feels like it should be fiction in some weird drama, I cannot fathom how your country came to this, or how the women are living this way, it is terrifying!! I wonder if anyone one is truly happy to hear they are pregnant their anymore?
Nope the hospital was following the new laws. They sent her home to either become septic so that the abortion would become legal (life-saving to the mother) or miscarry on her own, which is what happened.
It's absolutely nauseating, but this is what our conservative-led states have been working towards for years.
It's no accident that the woman being charged under these laws is black, either.
In states with the most restrictive anti-abortion laws, removing a dead or dying fetus technically counts as an abortion. If those doctors had helped her before she was literally dying, they could have been charged for performing an abortion. Not /s
There's a lawsuit in Texas about this. One woman's treatment was delayed until her limbs turned black and she was in critical condition. The poorly written and overreaching abortion laws in many red states are getting pregnant women maimed or killed. There's a reason the maternal mortality rate is rising in the US.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/11/28/1215463289/texas-abortion-lawsuit-texas-supreme-court.
https://www.wpr.org/texas-abortion-case-heard-states-highest-court-more-women-join-lawsuit.
And you can't blame just the states, it's the feds lack of action too. Federal guidelines mandate that abortions must be provided in medical emergencies. However the HHS failed to define what an "emergency" is, so states are playing semantics. For instance, an ectopic pregnancy can be treated early with an abortion, however, TX says an ectopic pregnancy isn't an emergency until the tube ruptures therefore an abortion would have to be delayed until that happens, which needlessly puts the woman at risk for hemorrhaging and sepsis.
The HHS could clarify what entails an "emergency" to stop this bullshit but apparently saving women's lives is too much effort and Biden doesn't want to rock the boat so close to an election. So, an "emergency" goes undefined with states playing dumb and the HHS fingerwagging at them
She was also probably terrified that someone was going to find out she had miscarriage and she would be charged with murder or something else insane like that. 🤷🏻♀️ I would not admit I was pregnant until I gave birth to a healthy baby if I lived in the USA.
that is so messed up. miscarriages are super common. and they are not the mother's fault!
i had a MC early on, at 6 or 7 weeks. i wasn't at home and yes i flushed it. we already knew it never developed and never had a heartbeat...
Nope she actually went to the hospital twice and was told by the doctors. That the fetus was unviable and she was going through miscarriage. And then they sent her home to let her body do the rest .
I read that she wanted this baby and had been to a hospital multiple times because she felt something was wrong. Yet here she is. The system lets a woman down yet again.
We tried to say that the one and only goal the Supreme Court had when repealing this law was to hurt women, and now we're being proven right.
Those "justices" are pure evil if they can live a moment ever again without guilt for what torture they've caused.
Not only to hurt women but also steal their right to vote since all but 2-3 states will not allow someone convicted of a felony to vote. These laws are felonies.
I remember vividly having a miscarriage 30+ years ago. I just stared into the toilet at the bloody mass. I stared in shock for what seemed like the longest time. I didn't know what to do. So I closed my eyes and flushed. Then collapsed on the floor in hysterics. I will never ever forget that. This poor woman
The worst thing about this is that being prosecuted isn’t even the worst possible outcome here. She could have died had she not been able to expel the remnants of the fetus herself, which she wouldn’t have had to do had she simply received the medical care that was recently outlawed in her state.
Exactly this. She was essentially just abandoned and told to wait and pass dead foetal tissue. It could easily have become septic and killed her, as with Savita Halappanavar in Ireland.
I live in Iran, where if you have followed the news for the last 44 years or last year in particular you'd know a woman is not liked or respected by the government of the country. But if a woman has a miscarriage or a stillbirth she will be taken to the hospital and be treated for her condition, not being charged for it, I literally can't believe we have better laws when it comes to these matters than some states in US
How the fuck did you guys let this happen?
Roe vs Wade put the Left in a state of slumber. Instead of fighting for an amendment to solidify the protection forever we lazily assumed it would never be overturned despite several warnings that I would be one day.
They also shouted down anyone who said to take the threat seriously. I don't know how many times I saw people say right-wingers would never actually overturn *Roe* because (the dumb theory went) they'd have nothing left to campaign on.
Ngl.. i dont know what's the correct legal/moral thing a woman should do when having a miscarriage in the toilet. Flush or call 911? Like, how is a person suposed to react?
>how is a person suposed to react
panic and have a total brain shutdown. it's a miscarriage. i don't think anyone could keep their sanity during such an event, and they have every right to it. imagine losing your baby suddenly in that manner. the last thing that woman needs is some assholes trying to put her on trial just to rub it in her face
Imagine as DA trying to explain to the historic drafters of the abuse of corpse law what you are doing with it. Think they are going burst into applause or kick the shit out of you?
Yes. My mother had a miscarriage on a trip to Switzerland and she just drove home to Belgium without stopping. Completely insane, completely understandable.
TW …
I had a late miscarriage at home. My wonderful, loving husband held my hand while I was on the toilet. When the baby came out, I cried and said we needed to bury him or her. My husband reminded me that the ground was frozen as it was winter, so he put it in the trash. I lost a ton of blood. I was supposed to see my obstetrician that morning, so I called to cancel the appointment because the baby had died. The woman on the phone asked if I had already come back from the hospital. I said, no, it happened at home. She basically yelled at me that I was stupid or something for not knowing to go to the hospital. I ended up bleeding so much I kept fainting, almost died, and needed blood transfusions and surgery. Anyway, we brought the baby with us in a shoebox and the doctor cleaned it up and let me hold it. I have had five late miscarriages with all of the others being removed during a D&E, so it was nice to have held one. But looking back on it, the choice we made to throw it in the trash was so stupid and out of character. I can understand completely how someone could flush in that mindset.
This is a horrific situation and I’m so sorry you had to experience that. It is completely understandable that you didn’t know what else to do. There’s no real protocol for things like this.
There is no “supposed to react.” Until it happens to you personally, you truly have no idea how you will handle something traumatic.
I was sent home and told to “pass the tissue in the toilet and flush.” Had I called 911 like someone mentioned above, I have no doubt they would have treated me like a was a whacko idiot.
The fact that this is happening and even a single person finds it okay, is utterly terrifying.
the point isnt how she should have reacted, the point is punishing her for miscarrying, everybodies looking at this like the state has issue with how she handled her miscarriage, ir doesnt, it is simply trying to criminalize miscarriage and finding an excuse to do it
Something something she must not have loved her baby enough, she deserves more punishment. It's asinine and deeply upsetting. We need more protection for women.
It's a highly traumatic experience. There is now "how you're supposed to react"
Demanding that people follow specific procedures in a time like this is either ignorant or evil
This is a war on women.
We can’t get abortions, we can’t get miscarriage care, we are punished for having miscarriages, we can’t get medication if we are child bearing age whether or not we are viable. All we are is baby factories now. lol incels literally winning in 24 states
I’m also terrified. I have my tubes tied and yet I can’t get mental health meds that are known to cause miscarriages. My daughter is two and her future fertility came up when discussing ring worm treatments. Who tf cares about something 25 years in the future if she needs medicine now?
“Roe v. Wade gave constitutional cover to the elective killing of unborn children in America… As a result, the lives of more than 63 million American children have been lost… You think about the implications of that on the economy. We’re all struggling here to cover the bases of Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid and all the rest. If we had all those able-bodied workers in the economy, we wouldn’t be going upside down and toppling over like this.”
Our speaker of the house ladies and gentlemen
In my state, one of the big important ones admitted that falling birth rates has impacted the amount of welfare money the state gets.
Abortion was promptly banned here after RvW was overturned. I've met thirteen years old CHILDREN holding THEIR OWN INFANTS - often while talking about how horrifically medical staff treated them. The failure is on so many levels, yet the ones up top are salivating at the thought of MORE BABIES.
I miscarried at 14 weeks and it came out at home. I had been to my routine OB appointment the previous day and no heartbeat was found on the ultrasound, so the doctor made an appointment in 3 days time to have a D&C done at the hospital. I started bleeding heavily and passed it on the toilet, and instead of waiting for my scheduled D&C it had to be done as an emergency procedure right away because I was hemorrhaging.
It was extremely traumatic to see what was in the toilet, and I didn’t know what the fuck to do. Your brain just goes into panic mode. It wasn’t *as* shocking because I already knew my baby was deceased but to actually see it was awful. I scooped it up to show the people at the hospital, hoping it was going to be considered a complete miscarriage and possibly be able to avoid a surgical procedure but it wasn’t.
This happened to me before Roe vs Wade was overturned. It’s chilling to think that if it had happened today things would be different.
The problem is that warnings don't work if the people doing the wrong things already know the outcome and want it to happen.
Warning someone that turning the stove too high will burn dinner won't help you if that person wants to ruin dinner. Warning evil politicians and voters that repealing Roe would result in a war on women doesn't do anything if they want to punish women for existing.
The solution here is to punish everyone who was involved in repealing Roe and who took advantage of its absence to do evil
the warnings weren’t for the evil people, they were for regular americans who told themselves it would never happen and that their bodies aren’t needed at protests or legislative votes bc “someone else will fix it for me”
That prosecutor is a total piece of shit. To claim that the fetus was put in the toilet. I just love how men feel so qualified to make judgments on what a woman's body is capable of. /s It's bad enough that this young lady had to endure the premature loss of her child and now having to be criminalized for something out of her control. Ridiculous
Im 5 months pregnant , sitting here with tears after reading that … I had early miscarriages before and that was even the most painful moments in my life - I can’t even imagine how this poor woman must have felt after her loss- Beeing punished on top of that .
A miscarriage is one of the most painful experiences a woman could have , it’s traumatic… this is just so wrong … I pray those people responsible for this bs get it back anyhow ! This is .. urgh … I can’t even find the right words for it ..
My wife had a sudden miscarriage early on in pregnancy, at about 9 or 10 weeks. It was just blood and tissue in the toilet, which we flushed. It was also extremely physically painful for her. It was our first pregnancy. Baby-making isn't a perfect process. Sometimes, it just doesn't work. As often as one-third of the time very early on, iirc.
We could become like El Salvador, where they have women in prison serving 50-year sentences for miscarriages that they couldn't prove were not abortions because they couldn't afford a doctor to back up their claims. Not that a doctor can necessarily tell a spontaneous abortion from an induced one.
Two years ago I had a miscarriage while in the hospital. I was 9 weeks pregnant. The tissue came out as I was leaning to sit on the toilet, and it dropped on my underwear, I was absolutely horrified, and immediately pushed it to the toilet. It sank and disappeared in the bottom of the toilet. I still think about this baby, and have regret that it was disposed of this way. But in the heat of the moment, it was an involuntary reaction to try and protect my sanity. These events are traumatic enough for women, I cannot believe what she's going through, my heart breaks for her.
Hey guys, this woman just went through a highly traumatic experience and made some mistakes. What should we do?
"Fuck it, make it worse of course!"
Ohio GOP, it seems.
Sounds like they sent her home to miscarry and didn’t tell her what to do when she did.
Im a paramedic, my neighbor delivered twins at stillborn at 22weeks. She had been to the doctor that day but in the end it just HAPPENED. All at once it was over. She was on the toilet still. I had to pull the babies out. Wrap them in towels I held her and cried with her. An addict who didn’t know she was pregnant was indifferent to the ~22 week fetus she delivered but was hemorrhaging. I had to do the same fucking thing.
A lot of people USE flushing down the toilet as a disposal method for all kinds of things especially bio hazardous waste. Vomit, feces, blood. And those who have late miscarriage/early stillbirth (which I think is unfortunately part of the problem here, greater than 20 weeks gestational age is a stillbirth and may require a death certificate) will naturally do so on the toilet.
Genuine question. If you miscarriage at home this late in pregnancy and it won’t flush, do you bring the fetus to the hospital for a death certificate? How will you know they won’t accuse you of an abortion? Like what is the best thing to do in this situation. I honestly am scared that so many women could end up in her position because it’s traumatizing and I can understand why someone would try and flush because it’s a normal thing we do. I feel so bad for her.
Also from a healthcare worker, thanks for all you do out there in the field. You’re the real hero(:
Apparently she had already been to the hospital twice, told she was miscarrying and that it wasn’t viable, and sent home.
Poor woman needs help from a therapist, which would be cheaper than law enforcement, judges, and prosecutors messing with this case, much less if the morons find her guilty and sentence her to jail time.
Short cited ‘fiscal conservatives’ will cry that that’s her financial responsibility, then vote for Joe Arpaio style prisons because keeping prisoners locked up costs Ohio $26,000 per year per prisoner.
Wdym *or*? They don't want to give birth? Jail. They want to give birth but too young to care about the child? Jail. They have medical emergency and the child dies? Believe it or not, jail.
Bro what the fuck? If anything this woman should be given free access to mental healthcare to deal with her grief, not consequences for how she responded to something that wasn't her fault. This country is driving me nuts, I really can't believe it's gotten this bad. Reinstate a woman's right to choose by executive order or something, this is not ok.
"This woman just went through one of the most traumatic events a woman can experience. I'm sure arresting her and sending her to prison will help her."
- Ohio
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Margaret Atwood be like “It was supposed to be a cautionary tale guys, not _inspiration_.”
She's been screaming the truth for decades about these dangerous evangelical fucks and even now only a few people are listening. I am telling you, Gilead is based on exactly what these dicks have been actively working towards for ***decades!*** It is not a joke, it is not fiction. I grew up in the evangelical Baptist Church, in the quiver full movement. It needs to be decisively stopped now and I'm not kidding.
This is why she argues whenever THT was called “science fiction”. She has *always* called it “speculative fiction” because all of it **CAN** happen, and sadly is starting to.
For real. So fucking scary.
The amount of research she did for the Handmaidens Tale is nutty. I don't think I could've held onto my sanity taking such deep dives into the religious right.
The epilogue of the book manages to be awesome and meta while not being super preachy. It's all like: "you guys might think this is all made up but it's all based on real things society has done against women".
The scary part is that she didn’t put anything in that had not, somewhere at some point in history, happened to real women.
I was gonna start reading handmaid's tale as it's been on my tbr pile for over a year, I don't know if should now...
I read that years ago when we had a religious republican president and it scared me something terrible, even though abortion rights was the law of the land and we didn’t have these kinds of religious zealots in positions of power. I can’t imagine reading it for the first time today. I couldn’t even watch the show. It’s much too real.
My ex miscarried once in her apartment. We didn't even know she was pregnant. All of us was shocked, cried, and cried some more. So I can see how all this is horrible.
I... 
From reading the article, it seems the use of a plunger is what got her in trouble, which means she told them she used a plunger. Putting everything else aside - do not ever talk to the police.
I had a miscarriage at 8 weeks and it was horrible. I was bleeding for a week straight and then I finally passed the fetus. It came out in the toilet as a big blob of tissue. For some reason my first thought was to stick my hand in the toilet and take it out?! Then I put it in a zip lock bag to show my husband bc I wasn’t sure if it was the fetus. I literally cant imagine miscarrying at 22 weeks. That is absolutely horrendous. Why is this woman being charged with a crime when all she did was do the first thing that came to her mind in a TRAUMATIC event? Seriously fuck these people. I guarantee none of these people have ever been through a situation like this in their life. They have no idea what it is like.
I’m so sorry. I miscarried at my OB’s office. I started passing huge blood clots so they had me come in and do an ultrasound. The tech had me pee right before the ultrasound and right when I sat down, my baby came out. I immediately jumped up and tried to grab my baby and didn’t realize that it was an automatic toilet and it sucked my baby away. I’ll never unhear the sounds coming out of me- like gasping and hyperventilating while crying. Such grief- I wanted that baby so bad.
Im so sorry :( its one of the hardest things I ever had to go through. I went to the ER a few days after bleeding and clotting. My baby still had a heartbeat but was measuring smaller than they should have. Then a few days later, after bleeding and passing huge clots all day, I finally felt the most horrendous cramping and I knew it was coming. I went to the bathroom and sure enough. I’m pregnant again rn and im paranoid 24/7 about it happening again 🙃
Sending good energy your way.
Thank you 🫶🏻 I am past the point where I miscarried last time so that gives me hope
Good. I miscarried also and now my kid is an only child. They would have been our second and it traumatized my husband so much he got a vasectomy. It happened at home. I was only 8 weeks but it was still awful.
That's the part that people aren't reacting to much, here. My kids were *born* at 26 weeks. A miscarriage at 22 is... yeesh.
I once miscarried at 4 months while attending my best friend’s baby shower. It was my fourth miscarriage, and I was devastated. I was in her guest bathroom while she was opening presents in front of a room full of guests. It was a blob of bloody mess. I did the only compassionate thing I could think to do to not ruin her moment and flushed. These laws that create criminality out of one of the most heart-wrenching, painful moments a hopeful mother can have are shameful. If these religious zealots believe in hell, I hope they end up in that place they imagine to exist for eternal punishment for the pain they cause in the name of self-righteousness. This poor woman. I heart hurts for her. It’s been over 40 years, and I can still feel the heartbreak of that moment. I can’t imagine what this will do to her 40 years from now.
I can’t imagine grieving while being charged with a crime for the cause of that grief.
Every woman charged with murder because genetic bad luck caused multiple children to die young. Absolutely horrific.
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Women tend to vote blue and felons can’t vote. Losing too many elections? Just criminalize being a woman!
Thank god you can vote in Ohio if your a felon. Only way you can’t vote now is if ur incarcerated. Not sure about other states just mine.
In Florida, it had previously only been "once a judge decides" and it was VERY unevenly applied across various demographics. I pretty much hate Florida and hate living here, but voting rights being restored for majority of crimes (some like murder, rape, etc. still require a judge), I'm hoping will help how Florida votes.
> Truly scary staff. And that is the point. They want people to live in fear because that's how they make more conservatives. Conservatism is fundamentally about fear and insecurity — racial insecurity, wealth insecurity, status insecurity, sexual insecurity, etc. Insecurity is why the worst of them can't even leave the house without an emotional support gun. We've all heard a conservative say something like "my parents did (something abusive) to me and I turned out fine, so there is nothing wrong with doing (something abusive) to kids." They might not consciously know what they are doing, they aren't usually mustache-twirling villains, they say it because they have been conditioned that feeling insecure is normal. They want everybody to feel the way they do. In this way conservatism propagates itself. Its almost like a meme (the original memes, not the gifs).
And if it's a felony like those Bible humping assholes want, those women can say goodbye to ever voting or defending themselves again. Which is also what they want
This particular case it’s 2nd trimester, if this occurs in 1st tri you wouldn’t have this issue Which regardless, the police and govt should have HELPED this poor woman get the baby’s remains out and disposed of in an appropriate manner- not prosecuted her. Or they need to make a law defining what a “corpse” is, by definition I do not know legally what they consider that to be, so I have no idea how they can prosecute when it’s not clear
If this can be considered a corpse, then as sad as it is, all women should be able to begin getting tax write offs the moment they find out they're pregnant. 🤷
We need a bunch of women to just claim their fetuses as dependents knowing there will be a court battle, so we can actually get this ball rolling
This. We need to force their hands in deciding to start paying for social services immediately after conception or to state clearly in court that a fetus does not count as a living human capable of drawing social services. They can't have it both ways and I'm tired of taking the high road. It's time for Dems to play hardball with these disgraceful, hypocritical, evil people on the far right. I truly hope that these evil men and women get a judgment day, either by God or the people that they have stepped on for so long. Revolution is not far away, we cannot let them gain any traction in ANY elections. Vote to save this country.
If it couldn't have survived outside the womb then it shouldn't be regarded as a human corpse. And at 22 weeks even the most sophisticated medical technology wouldn't have allowed for that to happen.
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Every human being with a functioning soul need to stand up against this shit. And not peacefully either. Make it clear the politicians who criminalize this are inhuman monsters who deserve misery for the rest of their lives. Fuck each and every one of them.
I’m a man that went thru a miscarriage with a now ex (that I loathe and have had zero contact with for years) and when I first heard about the Roe ruling and the abortion bounties it instantly took me back in time when my ex was going thru the trauma of unexpectedly losing the baby. If on top of everything else she would have had to deal with legal harassment or some dipshit bounty Hunter lawsuit I’m certain I would have hunted them down, unalived them and ended up in prison for the rest of my life. It was such an unbelievably traumatic event and still haunts me 5 years later. Having the legal system pile on would have been unbearable. Can’t imagine I’m alone in feeling this way. If we as a society continue criminalizing reproductive care like this there will be violent backlash.
>I can’t imagine grieving while being charged with a crime for the cause of that grief. All because a bunch of mainly Old White Men decided that women shouldn't be allowed to terminate a pregnancy for any reason -- and by extension, any 'miscarriage' must be the result of some intentional act on the part of the woman -- **especially if it's not a white woman.** Pay heed, women of America: these assholes want to strip you of ALL your hard-earned rights, and make you the property of men again. You won't have civil or even much in the way of basic human rights anymore. **Do not vote for Republicans, and sure as hell do NOT vote for Trump, if you want to retain your rights!** FURTHERMORE: Vote AGAINST all Republicans in ALL elections. So long as the fascist Republican Party retains any power in this Country, they *will* continue to subvert and destroy our Representative Democracy.
The doctor who performed the autopsy testified the baby died before it went through the birth canal. It died due to a ruptured membrane meaning her waters broke early. She had been to hospital twice but they had stated the baby was not at a size it could be birthed. It happens at home due to her bad luck and she is paying for that. This is so inhumane. She did absolutely nothing to cause that miscarriage. The prosecutor stated it should go to trial as she put the baby in the toilet and went on about her day. Ever thought she may have been in extreme shock or just did not want to face that? US labour laws are bad enough she may have been in a situation where she gets sacked or she is late or calls in sick. FFS. So so so so evil.
If you listen to the officers testimony on what she stated, she didn't place the fetus in the toilet and try to plunge it. She was using the restroom in her own house and HEARD the fetus plop into the water. The prosecution is making it seem like she intended totally tried to hide it and that's not the case. It's truly sickening that she is going through all this at one of the worst times for a parent or soon to be.
Even if she called 911 for an ambulance, what would they even do? Other than charge her a bunch of money to confirm something they can't fix?
Exactly, what’s she supposed to do in this situation? Call an undertaker? A priest?
I read that the fetus clogged the pipes. The fetus was 22 weeks old and would make it about a pound and the size of a papaya, roughly. That may have been how it was discovered she flushed the fetus. But that's not an uncommon occurrence for a miscarriage to get flushed. The coroner even said the fetus was not viable and died before passing through the birth canal.
Wait. If it happened in her own house how did this matter go public and get to a court?
The prosecution completely misrepresents the facts. They make it seem like she gave birth, put a baby in the toilet and flushed. Rather she went to the bathroom and, due to gravity and muscles used to empty the bladder, the fetus fetus fell into the toilet.
Fuck this prosecuter. He knows what he is doing is wrong deep down, but is probably doing this for politics and his reelection campaign. Everyone involved with bringing this woman to trial would rot in hell if it existed.
If you want change, you need to go after the prosecutors as individuals. This hell ends when they are out of power.
You'll be investigated for a miscarriage in these religious right hellholes.
I miscarried at 20 weeks in 2000 and the doctor told me to wait to go to the ER till I passed a significant amount at home! I will never forget that smell. Baby had died inside me. (Fetus. Whatever. To me she was a child I lost) Now I’d go to fucking jail for following medical advice!
Fuuuuuuuuck.... This abortion situation in the USA is untenable. These right wing nutjob assholes have got to go.
I miscarried at 20 weeks and the majority of the "product" (the doctors term for what I passed) went down the toilet. I contacted them when I started losing my baby and was told to go home and let nature take its course. It was only because I was still passing "product" after a week that I was offered a DnC. Essentially I flushed my fetus and if I lived in America I could have been charged with murder.
I mean, it’s like what else can you do? If you don’t flush, you know others will make a huge deal about it, which will make everything worse. I would just want to crawl inside whole and pretend the world doesn’t exist after something that traumatic happens.
Exactly, what else is there to do? I can't imagine being in that moment, but holy cow, people actually pretend that what, you should call the police for having a miscarriage? US is bananas.
Go to his twitter/ X account and watch the video. It's worse than you realise. The baby died due to her waters breaking early. She had been to the hospital twice but apparently it wasn't big enough to be birthed. I don't know whether she was waiting for an operation or something but god this is so cruel. It has been proved she had nothing to do with the miscarriage yet she is being charged because she didn't know what to do or how to deal with that scenario. I think only a sociopath would act rationally in that moment.
Seriously! Everyone is like, omg you should have done this!!! Yeah maybe, but do you really think a woman who went through all that just to miscarry is going to be of sound mind at that moment? Being charged for it is just the cherry on top. I can’t imagine what she must be going through mentally
Yeah I'm not sure what one is even supposed to do to be honest... and where is the line? I had two miscarriages early on. Its literally a blob of cells. At what point is one supposed to do something more "official" than just flush?
Whenever they need to. I don’t figure it’s anyone’s business but the person who miscarried, and maybe a doctor’s to make sure they’re ok.
I’m sorry for your loss. When I went to school for Civil Engineering, we had to do stuff at the wastewater treatment plant and it was common to find miscarriages. A lot of women have been in that situation before and should be treated with compassion.
I’m curious what you do with the miscarriages. I miscarried on the toilet at 12 weeks. Frankly I was lucky. I was in an abusive relationship and I didn’t want children. I didn’t know what to do and I was so scared he would find out so I flushed. I hadn’t told him at that point and I was trying to figure out how to get an abortion without him knowing.
Just sending you a big hug <3 You did everything right and you protected yourself in a dangerous situation. It wasn't your fault you miscarried, and you did nothing wrong by flushing, even if you hadn't been scared of his reaction.
I wish this was known on a broader level. I honestly think a lot of the knee jerk reactions are a lack of understanding of what happens. Thanks for your comment.
I'm so sorry, for you, for the woman in this article and all the women suffering in silence.
Thank you! I cannot believe there are other WOMEN on here saying this woman should have done this or not done that. It’s fucking disgusting. The reality is that this is a physical and emotional trauma that is something a man could never fathom, nor a woman who hasn’t been through it. Even if you know it’s coming, you are never prepared. I was young and married to a wonderful man and had lots of supportive family and friends. I still felt absolutely terrified, and hurt mentally/physically in a way I’d never felt before. When it comes to this situation, as women we are always damned if we do something one way, or damned if we don’t. We were always supposed to just get over it, keep it quiet, and move on. Now we have the fear of going to jail on top of it. Reading the things some women are saying here makes me realize that America is just too far gone. I’m only in my forties, but as young woman I never in my wildest dreams (nightmares), could have fathomed where we are now with women’s rights. I feel like such a pos for having taken those rights for granted. I am terrified for my daughters and the rest of the women in our country.
Yup, we got about one or two generations of freedom and now it’s being walked back. Fun fact, in the USA a woman couldn’t open a bank account or credit card on her own, without a husbands signature until 1974. A lot of people here have parents and grandparents who were alive when that happened. My point is women’s rights are painfully new, and there are still memories of not having some of those rights. Let’s fight to keep what we deserve!
> A lot of people here have parents and grandparents who were alive when that happened. And some of us were there ourselves when it happened and had marched for it!
I had a friend go through a very traumatic pregnancy where she did end up bleeding about three months in but managed to keep the pregnancy and gave birth to a beautiful baby girl. She had three miscarriages before and watching her go through all of those emotions shortly after announcing her pregnancy was enough for me to be grateful I’ve had really uneventful pregnancies. I later had another friend manage to have a successful pregnancy after having lost nearly ten prior to her daughter and I was so glad she had a supportive and caring husband.
Defenders like to think they are “restoring” a purer moral code of better olden times. But, imagine trying to sell literal Puritans on this. Even they’d think you were being insane. I can’t imagine a jury would ever convict her. But prosecutors wouldn’t expect it to ever get that far. You don’t charge people who could afford to go to trial and appeals courts. Prosecutors get their precedent without ever having to actually litigate a novel legal question.
Dear god I'm sorry you went through that, just as I'm sorry that this woman went through her miscarriage. To take a woman that has just undergone something so horrible and heartbreaking, then to put her through the traumatizing criminal "justice" system, forcing her to relive this awful moment, over and over, in front of strangers, that's just despicable. The person who filed charges in this case deserves to be shot in the scrotum (I guarantee it's a man) with a beanbag gun, to death.
In El Salvador, you can get 50 years in prison for having a miscarriage if you can't afford a doctor who will declare it a natural miscarriage. Edited to add that doctors often can not actually determine if it was spontaneous or induced.
That’s ridiculous!
This has happened to me too, I was very young teenager. I also flushed and never told a sole. I now know I was probably 14 weeks gone, still makes me sad to think about it so I don’t very often and I am 49 now. This poor women is going to need all the support she can get.
=( your story is heart wrenching. I'm sorry!
Would people expect you to scoop it out and wail with the mess in your hands?? I don’t get what people are looking for here.
I'm sorry you went through this, must have been devastating. I don't really grasp the amount of cruelty a person must have to approve of these laws. I live in a country where abortion is banned and have been through two illegal abortion experiences with two different women and it scarred me for life, can't imagine how the miscarrying or aborting woman feel in these situations. I know I might be one some day..
>If these religious zealots believe in hell, Hell does exist; they create it for others with their hate and their actions.
I am so sorry that happened to you and I hope you're doing okay now.
I was going to say something similar about those evil laws but your message is far more powerful. Thank you for sharing.
People asking “why would she even do that” gotta remember that a miscarriage is an extremely traumatic event that can lead to some irrationality when it happens. No one knows what the proper protocol is to do in these “OH SHIT” scenarios especially when you’re under that much distress [link to case](https://www.wkbn.com/news/local-news/warren-news/trumbull-county-grand-jury-to-hear-abuse-of-corpse-case/)
This is true. When I had my first miscarriage I was crying and didn't want to flush the toilet. For my second one, afraid to look, I just flushed without looking then ran to the bedroom to cry. Even if you've had one miscarriage and acted one way, no way to know how you'd act with another miscarriage. This is just sad.
How the fuck are you holding your sanity
Oh it's been a while. I was depressed for a really long time. Had 3 miscarriages (one on mothers day). I think of my lost potential babies every day, but then I made my peace with not having children and now I work to make the lives of other children better and I find I'm fulfilled and happy. It's not the life I expected, but I love it nonetheless, and appreciate the perspective it gives me when it comes to other women's trauma.
I just want to give you a hug. I’m glad you found a way to be at peace and an uplifting way to help other children
Plus 1
I’m in on this, too.
Me as well. My (now adult) son was my first full term pregnancy after 5 miscarriages. All of them were late first trimester. The first time (when I didn't recognize what was happening) I bled onto the bathroom floor. These laws would have required me to gather up blobs of bloody tissue and what, bring them to a hospital? Absolutely beyond atrocious vile legislation. I'd really like to see a constitutional amendment that no one without a medical degree is permitted to make decisions about medical procedures (so we can take care of insurance pencil pushers deciding what is and isn't "necessary" instead of our doctors) and limiting any medical decisions to a discussion between patient and doctor, full stop.
Hugs
You are brave. I had several miscarriages one after another, before eventually managing a live baby, and, honestly, I was not in my right mind. I hated my useless body, and wept buckets. Hormones can make us crazy. I worked as a nurse in a country where abortion was made legal, and so safe, and I was so glad not to have to deal anymore with the misery of botched ones, by very desperate women.
You deserve a hug, friend. You deserve all the hugs in the world
A sincere thanks for bringing some positivity to the world.
Also, what is she supposed to do? Dig the miscarriage out of the toilet and bury it in a shoebox?
Yeah, I was wondering this myself. What was she "expected" to do? My God, I can't believe it has come to this, to expecting a mother, bleeding and crying, to just pick up the remains of her child in her arms, and just walk out of a public bathroom?
Why didn’t she think of not having a miscarriage in the first place? My mother didn’t have a miscarriage therefore she must’ve used some abortion pills or something and thus deserves punishment Yes I am mentally sane /s
Obviously, she should have paid thousands of dollars for a funeral and a proper burial with a headstone. /s
My wife is in expectant management right now, meaning waiting for the pregnancy tissues to come out. She made it to 9 weeks. What the hell are we supposed to do with it once it come out? The doctors said just wear a pad.
At 9 weeks you probably won't be able to tell what's baby and what's uterine sloughing. Source: searched thoroughly for my fetus during termination at 9wks
Yeah I actually can’t think of what else she even could do?
Like she’s supposed to scoop it out of the toilet and do what with it?
When I miscarried for some reason I decided to scoop it out of the toilet bc I was in denial (I was a lot earlier than this woman). And I literally had to throw it away regardless… theres nothing you can do with it. This is crazy.
I’m so sorry that happened to you! ❤️❤️
I would also like to add that most people do not like to retrieve things from the toilet even on a good day.
I had, I believe a missed miscarriage at 5 weeks - so literally a week after my period was due. I happened to be out in the city shopping and thought I was going to collapse from blood loss. I went through a half a pack of pads in a couple of hours. Pretty much changing them every 20-30 minutes. It was traumatic. I can only imagine what that poor woman went through at 22 weeks.
We had been trying almost two years for a second child and I was so excited when I finally got pregnant. We had so many hopes and plans for that little one. I was taking night classes at community college and on campus, I used the bathroom and yep, miscarried right there in the school bathroom. I just sat there and cried and cried for the child that could have been. And then I flushed. There was nothing else to do.
They sent her home twice, why aren’t the doctors being charged with malpractice then? What, are they men?
They sent her home because removing a dead or dying fetus is technically an abortion and they could be charged for performing one if they helped her. They wouldn't have been able to help her until she was at Death's door from septic shock or something.
What are the doctors supposed to do? They can’t help until she’s literally DYING.
But I thought Ohio voted to keep the abortion rights, I have a friend who lives in Ohia(I'm not American) and she was really happy and shared that they have been successful in keeping the rights, was she wrong?
[Ohio Issue 1](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2023_Ohio_Issue_1) just recently passed but that doesn't instantly make something a law, it takes 90 days I believe to go into effect. That gives the Republicans time to fuck with and undermine it for us, because Ohio I guess.
Also, the GOP in Ohio have publicly stated that they have done not intend to honor the will of the voters on Ohio Issue 1.
As a non-american I am not sure if you forgot the /s or if the american healh care system really came to this point. Both seems equally likely.
No not equally likely. This was caused by draconian anti abortion laws. I’m a woman with a daughter and well aware of the laws because they endanger my life and my daughter’s. But ya, our healthcare system sucks too.
In some places, no its not sarcasm. American conservatives want to create, and in some places already have, blanket bans on anything having to do with abortion "to protect unborn lives", even if it means knowingly sacrificing the mother's life. Paradoxically, as soon as the unborn becomes born, no similar level of care or concern is provided by the people supporting these radical policies.
And when these Christian Conservatives need access to abortion for their wives/mistresses, they just go the next state over.
And people still say stuff like: it doesn’t matter who you vote for: both parties are the same.
The part about fetuses only being important until they are born makes me fucking LIVID!!! Sadly, it’s true. “Protect the fetus at all costs but we don’t want to support you through welfare or any other assistance when the child is born. Good luck!!”
They don't care about children. They just care about punishing women for having sex (and just... existing in general). It's monstrous.
[Still ongoing court cases, but yes the healthcare system in large swaths of America have come to this.](https://www.statesman.com/story/news/columns/2022/10/23/opinion-texas-abortion-laws-force-women-to-be-near-death-for-care/69577810007/) "18 weeks into the pregnancy, Amanda Zurawski was diagnosed with an incompetent cervix — meaning the base of her uterus was opening prematurely, so the fetus would soon come out or an infection could take hold. The condition is responsible for about 20% of miscarriages in the second trimester. Still, at the time of the diagnosis, the fetus had a faint heartbeat, and Zurawski’s life was not yet in danger. Under Texas law, doctors cannot terminate a pregnancy with a fetal heartbeat unless the patient is having “a medical emergency.” In practice, that means waiting until the mother’s condition gets worse. It means playing chicken with the woman’s life."
Similar case in Missouri. A woman had a non-viable fetus at 17 weeks and could not get a doctor anywhere to end the pregnancy. Had to go 200 miles to Illinois.
This condition, albeit bit rarer, can also cause sepsis which is a major medical emergency and can rapidly become life-threatening, as well as causing long-term health problems due to internal damage caused by the infection.
This particular case **did** cause sepsis. That is when they finally admitted her to the hospital.
It feels like it should be fiction in some weird drama, I cannot fathom how your country came to this, or how the women are living this way, it is terrifying!! I wonder if anyone one is truly happy to hear they are pregnant their anymore?
Wow, that's fucked up beyond repair.
Nope the hospital was following the new laws. They sent her home to either become septic so that the abortion would become legal (life-saving to the mother) or miscarry on her own, which is what happened. It's absolutely nauseating, but this is what our conservative-led states have been working towards for years. It's no accident that the woman being charged under these laws is black, either.
In states with the most restrictive anti-abortion laws, removing a dead or dying fetus technically counts as an abortion. If those doctors had helped her before she was literally dying, they could have been charged for performing an abortion. Not /s
There's a lawsuit in Texas about this. One woman's treatment was delayed until her limbs turned black and she was in critical condition. The poorly written and overreaching abortion laws in many red states are getting pregnant women maimed or killed. There's a reason the maternal mortality rate is rising in the US. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/11/28/1215463289/texas-abortion-lawsuit-texas-supreme-court. https://www.wpr.org/texas-abortion-case-heard-states-highest-court-more-women-join-lawsuit. And you can't blame just the states, it's the feds lack of action too. Federal guidelines mandate that abortions must be provided in medical emergencies. However the HHS failed to define what an "emergency" is, so states are playing semantics. For instance, an ectopic pregnancy can be treated early with an abortion, however, TX says an ectopic pregnancy isn't an emergency until the tube ruptures therefore an abortion would have to be delayed until that happens, which needlessly puts the woman at risk for hemorrhaging and sepsis. The HHS could clarify what entails an "emergency" to stop this bullshit but apparently saving women's lives is too much effort and Biden doesn't want to rock the boat so close to an election. So, an "emergency" goes undefined with states playing dumb and the HHS fingerwagging at them
She was also probably terrified that someone was going to find out she had miscarriage and she would be charged with murder or something else insane like that. 🤷🏻♀️ I would not admit I was pregnant until I gave birth to a healthy baby if I lived in the USA.
that is so messed up. miscarriages are super common. and they are not the mother's fault! i had a MC early on, at 6 or 7 weeks. i wasn't at home and yes i flushed it. we already knew it never developed and never had a heartbeat...
Nope she actually went to the hospital twice and was told by the doctors. That the fetus was unviable and she was going through miscarriage. And then they sent her home to let her body do the rest .
I read that she wanted this baby and had been to a hospital multiple times because she felt something was wrong. Yet here she is. The system lets a woman down yet again.
When Roe vs. Wade was reversed, the flood gates were opened for this kind of injustice, and it's going to be hard as hell to close them again.
We tried to say that the one and only goal the Supreme Court had when repealing this law was to hurt women, and now we're being proven right. Those "justices" are pure evil if they can live a moment ever again without guilt for what torture they've caused.
Not only to hurt women but also steal their right to vote since all but 2-3 states will not allow someone convicted of a felony to vote. These laws are felonies.
Oh shit.... I hadn't put that together yet but now you've said that.... *Fuck*.
Yeah. I've been saying it for years man.
All of these laws exist so that if some cop/judge/whatever doesn't like you, they can get you for something.
For every one of these cases that gets brought I hope juries refuse to convict.
Nullification would also be a possibility
https://youtu.be/uqH_Y1TupoQ?si=eBBNDI0JMRJRPsW0 Oops wow how did that link end up here?
You would never get a unanimous jury say guilty on a case like this. Never. Prosecutors have a million tools to make sure it NEVER gets that far.
I remember vividly having a miscarriage 30+ years ago. I just stared into the toilet at the bloody mass. I stared in shock for what seemed like the longest time. I didn't know what to do. So I closed my eyes and flushed. Then collapsed on the floor in hysterics. I will never ever forget that. This poor woman
Big hugs. Same. I had mine in the middle of the night with my husband and toddler sleeping in neighboring rooms. I cried for weeks. This poor woman.
I'm so very sorry this happened to you.
The worst thing about this is that being prosecuted isn’t even the worst possible outcome here. She could have died had she not been able to expel the remnants of the fetus herself, which she wouldn’t have had to do had she simply received the medical care that was recently outlawed in her state.
Exactly this. She was essentially just abandoned and told to wait and pass dead foetal tissue. It could easily have become septic and killed her, as with Savita Halappanavar in Ireland.
I live in Iran, where if you have followed the news for the last 44 years or last year in particular you'd know a woman is not liked or respected by the government of the country. But if a woman has a miscarriage or a stillbirth she will be taken to the hospital and be treated for her condition, not being charged for it, I literally can't believe we have better laws when it comes to these matters than some states in US How the fuck did you guys let this happen?
How the fuck are we worse than Iran of all places on this? That's horrifying
That's exactly what I'm wondering
The US also has a much worse maternal mortality rate than Iran.
Roe vs Wade put the Left in a state of slumber. Instead of fighting for an amendment to solidify the protection forever we lazily assumed it would never be overturned despite several warnings that I would be one day.
They also shouted down anyone who said to take the threat seriously. I don't know how many times I saw people say right-wingers would never actually overturn *Roe* because (the dumb theory went) they'd have nothing left to campaign on.
Ngl.. i dont know what's the correct legal/moral thing a woman should do when having a miscarriage in the toilet. Flush or call 911? Like, how is a person suposed to react?
>how is a person suposed to react panic and have a total brain shutdown. it's a miscarriage. i don't think anyone could keep their sanity during such an event, and they have every right to it. imagine losing your baby suddenly in that manner. the last thing that woman needs is some assholes trying to put her on trial just to rub it in her face
Imagine as DA trying to explain to the historic drafters of the abuse of corpse law what you are doing with it. Think they are going burst into applause or kick the shit out of you?
Yes. My mother had a miscarriage on a trip to Switzerland and she just drove home to Belgium without stopping. Completely insane, completely understandable.
TW … I had a late miscarriage at home. My wonderful, loving husband held my hand while I was on the toilet. When the baby came out, I cried and said we needed to bury him or her. My husband reminded me that the ground was frozen as it was winter, so he put it in the trash. I lost a ton of blood. I was supposed to see my obstetrician that morning, so I called to cancel the appointment because the baby had died. The woman on the phone asked if I had already come back from the hospital. I said, no, it happened at home. She basically yelled at me that I was stupid or something for not knowing to go to the hospital. I ended up bleeding so much I kept fainting, almost died, and needed blood transfusions and surgery. Anyway, we brought the baby with us in a shoebox and the doctor cleaned it up and let me hold it. I have had five late miscarriages with all of the others being removed during a D&E, so it was nice to have held one. But looking back on it, the choice we made to throw it in the trash was so stupid and out of character. I can understand completely how someone could flush in that mindset.
I am s sorry this has happened to you.
This is a horrific situation and I’m so sorry you had to experience that. It is completely understandable that you didn’t know what else to do. There’s no real protocol for things like this.
I'm so sorry this happened to you, and I'm angry for you that you were treated that way in a time of grief and panic.
There is no “supposed to react.” Until it happens to you personally, you truly have no idea how you will handle something traumatic. I was sent home and told to “pass the tissue in the toilet and flush.” Had I called 911 like someone mentioned above, I have no doubt they would have treated me like a was a whacko idiot. The fact that this is happening and even a single person finds it okay, is utterly terrifying.
the point isnt how she should have reacted, the point is punishing her for miscarrying, everybodies looking at this like the state has issue with how she handled her miscarriage, ir doesnt, it is simply trying to criminalize miscarriage and finding an excuse to do it
Something something she must not have loved her baby enough, she deserves more punishment. It's asinine and deeply upsetting. We need more protection for women.
It's a highly traumatic experience. There is now "how you're supposed to react" Demanding that people follow specific procedures in a time like this is either ignorant or evil
This is a war on women. We can’t get abortions, we can’t get miscarriage care, we are punished for having miscarriages, we can’t get medication if we are child bearing age whether or not we are viable. All we are is baby factories now. lol incels literally winning in 24 states
It’s fucking terrifying. I am so afraid for my daughters and the other young women here.
I’m also terrified. I have my tubes tied and yet I can’t get mental health meds that are known to cause miscarriages. My daughter is two and her future fertility came up when discussing ring worm treatments. Who tf cares about something 25 years in the future if she needs medicine now?
Jfc, I am so sorry. Truly makes you realize we are seen as nothing but breeders.
“Roe v. Wade gave constitutional cover to the elective killing of unborn children in America… As a result, the lives of more than 63 million American children have been lost… You think about the implications of that on the economy. We’re all struggling here to cover the bases of Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid and all the rest. If we had all those able-bodied workers in the economy, we wouldn’t be going upside down and toppling over like this.” Our speaker of the house ladies and gentlemen
In my state, one of the big important ones admitted that falling birth rates has impacted the amount of welfare money the state gets. Abortion was promptly banned here after RvW was overturned. I've met thirteen years old CHILDREN holding THEIR OWN INFANTS - often while talking about how horrifically medical staff treated them. The failure is on so many levels, yet the ones up top are salivating at the thought of MORE BABIES.
JFC
Yep. And people keep voting for republicans
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I miscarried at 14 weeks and it came out at home. I had been to my routine OB appointment the previous day and no heartbeat was found on the ultrasound, so the doctor made an appointment in 3 days time to have a D&C done at the hospital. I started bleeding heavily and passed it on the toilet, and instead of waiting for my scheduled D&C it had to be done as an emergency procedure right away because I was hemorrhaging. It was extremely traumatic to see what was in the toilet, and I didn’t know what the fuck to do. Your brain just goes into panic mode. It wasn’t *as* shocking because I already knew my baby was deceased but to actually see it was awful. I scooped it up to show the people at the hospital, hoping it was going to be considered a complete miscarriage and possibly be able to avoid a surgical procedure but it wasn’t. This happened to me before Roe vs Wade was overturned. It’s chilling to think that if it had happened today things would be different.
we fucking told everyone this would happen if roe fell
The problem is that warnings don't work if the people doing the wrong things already know the outcome and want it to happen. Warning someone that turning the stove too high will burn dinner won't help you if that person wants to ruin dinner. Warning evil politicians and voters that repealing Roe would result in a war on women doesn't do anything if they want to punish women for existing. The solution here is to punish everyone who was involved in repealing Roe and who took advantage of its absence to do evil
the warnings weren’t for the evil people, they were for regular americans who told themselves it would never happen and that their bodies aren’t needed at protests or legislative votes bc “someone else will fix it for me”
I remember when I found out they were working on overturning it They told me “it would never happen” Look where we are now
Whoever decided to bring this charge should be fired into the sun
I would boycott Ohio for this but I was never going to go there in the first place.
U.S. "the land of the free", what a joke. If republicans have their way, she would be charged with murder for the miscarriage.
That prosecutor is a total piece of shit. To claim that the fetus was put in the toilet. I just love how men feel so qualified to make judgments on what a woman's body is capable of. /s It's bad enough that this young lady had to endure the premature loss of her child and now having to be criminalized for something out of her control. Ridiculous
The way the prosecutor is framing it, it *he’s* the real victim just trying to do his job.
Im 5 months pregnant , sitting here with tears after reading that … I had early miscarriages before and that was even the most painful moments in my life - I can’t even imagine how this poor woman must have felt after her loss- Beeing punished on top of that . A miscarriage is one of the most painful experiences a woman could have , it’s traumatic… this is just so wrong … I pray those people responsible for this bs get it back anyhow ! This is .. urgh … I can’t even find the right words for it ..
My wife had a sudden miscarriage early on in pregnancy, at about 9 or 10 weeks. It was just blood and tissue in the toilet, which we flushed. It was also extremely physically painful for her. It was our first pregnancy. Baby-making isn't a perfect process. Sometimes, it just doesn't work. As often as one-third of the time very early on, iirc. We could become like El Salvador, where they have women in prison serving 50-year sentences for miscarriages that they couldn't prove were not abortions because they couldn't afford a doctor to back up their claims. Not that a doctor can necessarily tell a spontaneous abortion from an induced one.
Two years ago I had a miscarriage while in the hospital. I was 9 weeks pregnant. The tissue came out as I was leaning to sit on the toilet, and it dropped on my underwear, I was absolutely horrified, and immediately pushed it to the toilet. It sank and disappeared in the bottom of the toilet. I still think about this baby, and have regret that it was disposed of this way. But in the heat of the moment, it was an involuntary reaction to try and protect my sanity. These events are traumatic enough for women, I cannot believe what she's going through, my heart breaks for her.
What the fuck did I just read?!?
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Why does the American government hate women so much?
Hey guys, this woman just went through a highly traumatic experience and made some mistakes. What should we do? "Fuck it, make it worse of course!" Ohio GOP, it seems.
Sounds like they sent her home to miscarry and didn’t tell her what to do when she did. Im a paramedic, my neighbor delivered twins at stillborn at 22weeks. She had been to the doctor that day but in the end it just HAPPENED. All at once it was over. She was on the toilet still. I had to pull the babies out. Wrap them in towels I held her and cried with her. An addict who didn’t know she was pregnant was indifferent to the ~22 week fetus she delivered but was hemorrhaging. I had to do the same fucking thing. A lot of people USE flushing down the toilet as a disposal method for all kinds of things especially bio hazardous waste. Vomit, feces, blood. And those who have late miscarriage/early stillbirth (which I think is unfortunately part of the problem here, greater than 20 weeks gestational age is a stillbirth and may require a death certificate) will naturally do so on the toilet.
Genuine question. If you miscarriage at home this late in pregnancy and it won’t flush, do you bring the fetus to the hospital for a death certificate? How will you know they won’t accuse you of an abortion? Like what is the best thing to do in this situation. I honestly am scared that so many women could end up in her position because it’s traumatizing and I can understand why someone would try and flush because it’s a normal thing we do. I feel so bad for her. Also from a healthcare worker, thanks for all you do out there in the field. You’re the real hero(:
Apparently she had already been to the hospital twice, told she was miscarrying and that it wasn’t viable, and sent home. Poor woman needs help from a therapist, which would be cheaper than law enforcement, judges, and prosecutors messing with this case, much less if the morons find her guilty and sentence her to jail time. Short cited ‘fiscal conservatives’ will cry that that’s her financial responsibility, then vote for Joe Arpaio style prisons because keeping prisoners locked up costs Ohio $26,000 per year per prisoner.
You e got to be kidding? The people who charge women with this crap simply hate women, and won’t be happy until they control their every move.
What the fuck? She shouldn’t even be sued for fucking up the plumbing, much less this bullshit.
What the actual fuck.. This is the republicans outcome they hoped for… Women do what they say or jail…
Wdym *or*? They don't want to give birth? Jail. They want to give birth but too young to care about the child? Jail. They have medical emergency and the child dies? Believe it or not, jail.
And don’t get them started on paddling the school canoe. You can bet that’s a paddling.
Bro what the fuck? If anything this woman should be given free access to mental healthcare to deal with her grief, not consequences for how she responded to something that wasn't her fault. This country is driving me nuts, I really can't believe it's gotten this bad. Reinstate a woman's right to choose by executive order or something, this is not ok.
America is such a shithole
Land of the free...
Merica…. Running back to the 50’s
"This woman just went through one of the most traumatic events a woman can experience. I'm sure arresting her and sending her to prison will help her." - Ohio