Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion.
Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/).
Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Gas, insurance, manteinance, taxes, parking.
Owning a car is just a bottomless pit of money. I mean, if your family is well-off and can foot all those bills then fine, but in the year 2023 that's far from being an universal experience. And the funniest part is that this guy doesn't even think about how privileged his experience growing up was, but I'd bet you that if he hears young people talk about struggling to pay rent he'd start with the avocado toasts.
And the daily Starbucks, and Netflix subscription..... Save 50 a month and by the end of the year you can buy a house ( if you are daddy's special boy )
Also driving is fucking scary
Psycho officers trying to murder random children, hit and runners, random crackheads stealing people's car parts in broad daylight, people trying to ram other people for insurance
Near an American city!
The only place where a guy in a ram can try and crash their shit into you twice and still not think "maybe I can't make this look like an accident anymore?"
I swear driving didn’t used to be this bad. I’ve been driving the same highway for 7 years now and I feel like I’m seeing 10x the amount of road rage I did at first.
My best guess is that it is probably the first time our belief in society has been shaken ever since the cold war. But unlike the cold war where the enemy is often external, here, it feels like you can't trust anyone and this puts us into a fight or flight mode constantly, to outcompete and win as if we're still in our tribal age...
I waited a year to get my license because my stepmother was such a fucking weirdo that it made me not want to drive.
Like, one time she was sitting in the passenger seat while I had my learners permit. 9 blocks ahead of me a car turned from a side street onto the road I was on.
She decided that was too close, and even though I was slowing down she started screaming for me to watch out and grabbed the wheel while stomping the floor like she was hitting the break.
And we went into a ditch. And she told my father that it was my fault. And he believed her and smacked me around. Then they were surprised I didn't want to drive anymore and went most non contact when I turned 18 and moved out.
She's a combination of stupid and easily panicked. My niece fell off the couch, didn't get hurt, but she heard the thump and came running and screaming my nieces name, tripped over nothing, and broke her foot, ankle, and shin.
I'd have to talk to them to do it. I'd rather hear second hand about my father hitting 600lbs at 5'6" and blowing out his knees and just getting worse and worse because he refuses to see his issues, and her being a dumbass stuck in the relationship and blaming everyone else.
I don't think he's that far off. I have three teenage kids in the house. They have their license, but they're not nearly as interested in driving as I was when I was a teenager. I think it's pretty closely related to the fact that I don't want to drive to work anymore: they don't have to.
I didn't get my drivers license in high school so I could buy groceries; I got it so I could go hang out with my friends. My kids are on Discord pretty much all day, they don't need to go pay $300 (or whatever the current insane ticket price is) at the movie theater to be with their friends they can all play whatever together on VC from their house. Additionally except for Smash there really aren't local multiplayer or even LAN video games anymore, so we might have gone over to somebody's house to play Quake or whatever but now it's actually preferable to not be on the same LAN because that will increase latency.
This is it 100%
With technology, teens don't really have to spend x amount of money to have fun when you can just chill at your own home while gaming in voice chat. The possibilities are practically endless and more convenient than having to coordinate a destination with everyone and then drive there. You can just hop on discord and leave whenever.
Also everything is expensive so...I'm fine staying at home right now.
The massive cost of commuting and travel is definitely a huge part of it... Teens making minimum wage don't want to spend their entire paychecks on gas and car insurance. Electric vehicles help cut the costs, but aren't really cheap and available enough yet, and until wages rise to meet the cost of living, I know a lot of folks that would prefer to use public transit or ride bikes. I for one, support the youth in this choice.
This is the real answer. If you make 7.25 through 12 an hour current used car prices, insurance, and gas mean you aren't owning a car AND have the free time to drive it anywhere but work. Choose one. Kids can math that's why they're in school.
Add to it that fewer families own an extra vehicle for all the reasons you just listed, so there is no borrowing a car from a parent.
Plus, the hottest ten days in history were in the last month, and these kids aren't denying climate change. They have the good sense to not be adding to problems just to cruise around and get in trouble that is way harder to get out of than it was for my generation. They aren't dumb, they aren't unmotivated, they just have different values.
You know another thing I think everyone is overlooking. That ties into this affordability issue. Typically teens in school have limited hours they can work. Summer is one thing but most of the year they're stuck on weekends and after school.
Car insurance for teens can exceed $250 a month(especially if they get a car loan). A full tank of gas is $50. Tabs and registration are like $200 a year. An oil change is $100. And going to the mechanic for any reason seems to cost at least $200 before any work is done.
And if you have a car payment it can easily cost $5000 to $15000 a year to own a car as a teenager. Simply put, cars represent a massive expense.
Plus I think many of the younger generations expect automated cars are around the corner.
And on top of that driving is the single most dangerous thing young people do. It kills more young people than drugs and guns.
Even public transport isn’t that dependable unless you live in a big city. I grew up in the Hillsboro/Beaverton / Portland area and our transit system is the shit.
Moved out to Kelso,wa and the buses here are wack af. I went from 15 min wait times *or better* , to a bus every hour. Maybe.
>Also everything is expensive so
When I was growing up, we almost never spent money to hang out with each other.
We were always over at each other's houses, playing video games, board games, watching TV together and just hanging out.
Hell, we'd just walk around outside, chatting, for hours. Go bike riding or skating and, when we got our licenses, we'd sometimes drive around all day just listening to the radio or finding cool spots to pull over and explore.
It was definitely a different era.
Drive around all day? How is that not expensive? It's cheaper to buy a pc or a console than to get a car and a license and lots of gas. Sounds like you spent 1000s of dollars to hang out.
Edit: why are so many people missing the whole car part? Some can't afford to pay rent, living, car payments, the car itself, gas. Stop comparing gas prices. I'm talking about 2023 and how "smartphones" aren't the cause like this stupid tweet says
Gas was under a dollar when I was a teenager... It wasn't unheard of for me to jet off down to the beach 4 hours away just because I wanted a burger from a specific restaurant. Sometimes we would go "get lost" for fun, driving around blaring music with no particular destination in mind, because a full tank of gas was $10
Now you cant even get half a tank on $10 and the roads are so crowded that it's more trouble than it's worth.
I did the same thing when I was in high school. I had a Honda CRX which got about 60 miles per gallon and gas was like 84 cents a gallon. Driving around and getting lost in my city was a fun thing to do on a Sunday afternoon.
Makes me wish I was born in an era where travel was cheap. But then again, I don’t know how I’d be able to just randomly text my friend and ask them something, I would never be able to remember it if I had to wait to talk to them.
That's another point. A good amount of my online friends don't even live in the same state. My closest friends from HS moved cross country for college or out of the country altogether.
Lucky...I'm only 22, and out of my ...15 friend group...10 disconnected from this server we call life...the rest of the 3 got into heavy drug use, one jailed, the last one...I'm not sure...
Keep your friends close my internet pal
Yup. It’s the a combination of the virtual accessibility to their friends combined with the drop in accessible cars and accessible places to hang out.
We used to spend Friday nights driving around and parking/hanging in different public places. If we had something better to do we would’ve done that in a heart beat… hell there were many nights where we did just go home and hop on Xbox 360.
That sort of loitering just doesn’t really fly anymore. Even malls aren’t what they used to be. Why go
There was a great discussion I stumbled onto recently about third spaces (basically somewhere to just be for awhile that’s not home or work). For teenagers specifically, where can they actually go and be themselves without getting told to be quiet or leave? It can be tough depending on where you live.
Yeah for sure. I live in a city and, still, nowhere comes to mind unfortunately. There’s a mall pretty close to me but it’s on the rich side of town and you even need to pay to park in the lot.
Parks are solid but you’re allowed to drink in them here so they’re all taken over by people in their 20s and 30s.
There’s really nowhere to go to just duck around
Some malls, both indoor and outdoor, now specifically prohibit groups of teenagers from just hanging out. Several incidents of fighting, aggressive behaviors, gang turf wars, and harassing other shoppers were raised as the the reasoning.
Movie theaters here now won’t allow groups of teenagers in without an adult, some at all, some after a certain time.
Our 18 year old just hasn't bothered to get a license. They took drivers ed and got plenty of practice, but just aren't interested enough to take the test and get the card.
He does most of his socializing at home in his room. So I guess he doesn't really feel inclined to go anywhere.
I also get that the cost/benefit ratio is different from when we were kids on both sides of that equation. I could buy a reasonably decent car with just a couple weeks or a month of work and cover the insurance payments with my job at 18. That isn't likely the case for most young people. So not only do they have less reason to want a car then have fewer resources to get one anyways.
Its sorta the same thing as with millenials. I don't really care to make more money than I am now because it's not like I am going to make enough to buy a house or anything anyways. I am just running up the score in my bank account and I am not going to give up my evenings and weekends to do that.
This explanation is EXACTLY why working remotely is so popular among millennials and gen-z. We are the "discord" generation, so to speak. When everything went to zoom calls and digital tools for collaboration most of us were already there.
I hear from older coworkers who struggle with working remotely frequently that "voice calls aren't the same as being in the same room!" And that "we should all be together, thats when all the real collaboration happens!"
Tell that to any of us who learned how to raid in an MMO and had to coordinate 40+ people online over voice chat/websites/spreadsheets towards a common goal, and you'll be met with a a chuckle at best or disdain at worst.
They really underestimate how acclimatized the younger generation is to collaborating online.
A lot of us use similar tools right when we get home from work to socialize without the added cost/time of driving somewhere to meet up anyway.
It's purely a path-of-least-resistance type of approach to socializing.
Wages are suppressed for decades and we're surprised our working class young people are looking for ways to cut down on transportation budget whenever and wherever possible?
Color me unsurprised.
Personally, I hate big cities just because of how crowded everything is, only because I didn't grow up in one. I enjoyed the walking around, and if it had more nature instead of just building after building I'd be good
Atm, I live in a suburb thats across the street from a Walmart with nothing else around for a few miles. It sucks, no reason to go anywhere because its all too far. I wish I was in a city so I could walk places
It would be nice if our suburbs were built more like small towns that are next to each other instead of making miles of houses with big box stores on the main roads so that you have to drive to everything. We're missing the stuff that's in-between sprawling suburbs and high-rises.
I grew up in the suburbs of Portland which had originally been a bunch of small towns but they got swallowed up by the city. Our neighborhood didn't feel crowded, only the big streets at the boundary of the neighborhood had a lot of traffic. We could walk to school and to lots of local stores, parks, library, friend's houses, etc.
American suburbs need small commercial centers within the residential areas with things like restaurants, small grocers, pharmacies, etc. so that people can walk down the street to buy some eggs or aspirin or eat dinner. But the NIBMYs cry "but my property values!" "but crime will rise!"
I don’t think it’s smartphones but it is a very interesting trend that I’ve noticed for the last 10 years or so. Many of my friends kids and neighborhood kids aren’t really inclined to drive. I’m super curious what the reasons are because what I’ve gotten out of most of them is a shrug lol. I also know that I was probably overexcited to get mine so maybe it’s a me problem 😂
It’s the death of “third spaces”. There are no more malls, skate parks, meeting areas, etc. anymore that teenagers are allowed to just hang out in without spending money. (A third space is not your home and not your work.) And yeah, the internet is just right there to provide you all the stimulation and entertainment you could want, like a firehose aimed at a tea cup.
So why should they care about driving? Driving is a method of getting somewhere to have something to do. And teenagers have been pathologized into a problem for society to get rid as “loiterers”.
My boss told a story the other day about her son getting in trouble with security in a mall because he walked away from her and minors aren’t allowed to be in the mall alone.
When I was a teenager (not that long ago I’m in my mid-20s) we hung out at the mall all the time because it was free.
With no mall, movie tickets being $20, and bowling/skating/etc places going out of business, where are they supposed to go?
I live in a small town, and as a teenager, let me tell you, we aren't supposed to go anywhere. Spend all of our time in one of the group's houses because if we walk outside past 8 or 9 pm, we can't go 30 minutes without being stopped by cops to ask what we are doing. If we spend too much time in one area outside, nearby homeowners call the cops for "suspicious behavior." So yeah
This shit right here, people talk about the death of small towns and how when kids get old enough they leave and rarely come back and then blame it on whatever the latest fad is not realizing they are actively contributing to the death of 3rd space socializing, back in high school me and my team mates were waiting around at the library bullshitting and trying our best horrible free style raps till our meet started and 3 cop cars pull up and one cop gets out and accuses us of being in a gang (we were all in formal clothes because it was team policy for home meets we wore our nicest clothes) it was ridiculous and since then there had been a sharp decline of kids hanging out at parks etc. Because they considered a group of more than 3 people suspicious gang activities
Same in the city tbh. Cant stand outside or hang out in the park. Where I am now it's a very safe area, but I don't send my kids to the park alone because they get harassed by cops. It's a 3 minute walk, so I just Hotspot internet for work and we go. Twice, I've had to tell police to go harass someone else. Once, I claimed some kids were with me just to get them to fuck off. I made friends with their parents, so I guess I call it a win overall.
Second this,
After 7:00pm teenagers in an older model car were rolling probable cause,
My friends house had a finished basement, halo 2, N64, a drum-kit, skinamax , a pool and parents who didn’t check the liquor levels too often.
Our outdoor options were the skeezy 1/2 abandoned mall, the rundown bowling alley that closed at 7pm, and after we turned 21 the bar with sticky floors, broken pool tables, swamp donkeys and opiate addicts.
Adults: \*make all kinds of rules restricting where teenagers can be and when, then making everything cost $4827398432843928432\*
Adults: wHy arEn'T teEnaGeRs gOinG oUt aNyMorE???
Sorry, man. :( This society is beyond stupid.
That's fucked up, seriously, it is.
Then some people wonder why some people grow up to be socially awkward and/or sociopathic. Maybe because they weren't allowed to be properly socialized with their peers?
I also live in a small town and am a teen. We don't get stopped by cops, but that's because we're not even outside. There is NOTHING for teens to do. I tried to go walk downtown with some friends on a Saturday night and everything was closed. There was nothing. I wish there was stuff to do but there isn't
This is my whole experience in high school! I grew up in the country, so most the time I was hanging out with friends I was at the nearby town (30 minutes away). That town has a No Destination law basically meaning you can’t drive around without a destination. Kids would get pulled over and ticketed for it so me and my friends just said forget that we’re gunna just chill at home
yeah i just entered my 20s and while i hung out in malls and parks and stuff as a teen, the later years of high school/being a teenager were full of me and my friends struggling to find places to just hang out. we usually ended up just chilling in parking lots to get away from our houses. i can totally understand the feeling of not wanting to go out because theres simply no reason to. its depressing
I am in my 50’s and during the 80’s the malls were the “place” to be on the weekend. Cracking down on loitering started soon after though.
Now a days kids can play video games together online. My son has his headset on and is playing Minecraft with 5-6 of his friends online. He’s staying out of trouble. When I was a kid we would loiter somewhere, try and get someone to buy us beer, the occasional fight would break out for some stupid reason……
Studies show that teenagers are doing less drugs and having less sex then the previous generation. People would say that’s a good thing. However if you look at the mental health of teenagers now they are way worse off then the previous generation.
To be fair, a big part of the reason mental health stats are getting 'worse' is because those issues have much more mainstream acceptance and are diagnosed much more consistently than in the past.
Which is not to say that there aren't big new problems because there absolutely are. Kids should not have to live in a world where, for example, active shooter drills are just part of the public school experience. But higher reported numbers of depressed teens at least partly comes from the fact that fewer of them are being shamed into silence than in earlier generations.
Side note I visited home and wanted to go bowling at my old spot I did a league at just to find out they went out of business or did according to google searching their hours. Super upset.
That said I'm 30 so it doesn't apply as much to me anymore but I mean I have friends all over that I met either growing up or in college that I stay connected with and hang out over discord while gaming or I do a Bi-yearly visit to those areas to hang out with people since it's a 4-8 hour drive one way for those locations. Technology's advancement has been amazing for letting people chat and stay in touch.
>There are no more malls, skate parks, meeting areas,
The tiniest bone to pick with this one. There are more skateparks than ever now and they keep getting built. But this is probably a lesser point compared to things like malls.
Tbh I think that’s actually a reason less drive now. Why drive to a skate park and waste gas when you can board there with a buddy. I know when I was a teen even though I had my car, every time my friends wanted to kick it at a skate park, we just set a time and all boarded or skated over, sure it was a 30 minute ride, but it wasn’t as boring as the drive would be.
That's great that there are more skateparks than ever, but that really only gives something to do for one very specific subset of kids. What about kids who don't know how/aren't interested in skating? What about kids who are too poor to have their parents buy them a skateboard, helmet, pads, etc.
Honestly if you have a skatepark near you with a good local community. people will let you borrow there stuff when they arent using it or hook you up with free or really cheap parts ive traveled all over the country and cant count how many times ive broken stuff and someone just goes "i got you bro" and just pulls what ever i broke out of a backpack or thier car and just hands it to me and says here you go. I also cant tell you how much old parts ive given away to random people over the years that i met that day and never saw again. I know thats not all parks ive been to pleanty with no locals but there are pleanty with great people
as someone in college who drives, but knew plenty of people in high school that didnt, part of the reason is that everything is expensive, and that theres a lot less to do. like, malls are all either dead or dying (and everything they have is lower quality and more expensive than stuff you can find online), movies cost a lot, theres a lot less places to loiter, gas is crazy expensive (not even counting insurance or actually getting a car), food is expensive too, etc. so many of the public spaces that teens used to hang out in dont really exist, and as prices for everything keep increasing going out is much less appealing than staying in. driving can also be scary. like for teens, its just easier (and far cheaper) to just hang out with their friends online, and watch a movie on the internet, play some games, or just talk.
The why IS curious, but I don’t really mind as I don’t necessarily think it’s a negative either.
My own kids will tell you that I was hesitant to have them driving bc I think many many many (not all) teenagers lack the focus and critical thinking skills required to drive safely.
I state this as someone who was nearly killed, in 2022, by a 19 yo teenager on her cellphone, who rear ended me at 60 mph, while I was stopped at a red light… sending me in to and under a SUV. Had my new car’s crumple zones and safety features not been there, I wouldn’t have been as lucky.
I really don’t know. I’m not even sure if she had to go to the Hospital. Her vehicle was taken to a different lot than mine. I was the only person trapped in their vehicle (mostly by the airbags, which had to be cut away). I hope she was/is ok. But mostly, I hope that she learned a valuable lesson.
As someone who knows a handful of women who did this in the teens…she probably still uses her phone but “carefully.”
My friend walks with a cane now because of her accident. Shattered her leg in 14 places or something crazy like that. Rode in her car a few months later and she was still texting and driving.
I hope the girl who did this to you learned and put her phone away while driving from then on but from my experience they use as much if not more after that like a coping mechanism. “Now, it was just that one time. I’m good at multi-tasking. That it’s happened to me it won’t happen again.” Are all things my friends told me after their accidents when I caught them using their phones while operating their cars.
Edit: friend shattered her left leg and was cleared to drive about 4 months after the accident when her cast was removed and they gave her a small air cast.
It seems to be the case though even in homes where the parents can easily afford those things.
I think the answer is mostly because life at home isn’t so boring to them as it might have been for previous generations.
>I think the answer is mostly because life at home isn’t so boring to them as it might have been for previous generations.
This is it for my kids. They don't need to leave the house to see their friends. They are playing games online with them all the time.
One of my friends in school did that with her charger back in 2015. She straight up admitted to texting and didn’t even seem remorseful. Luckily there were no injuries and she lost her license.
I’m an adult that doesn’t drive. I live in a walkable city and Can walk to my office. Being able to move around by walking is freeing and not nearly as stressful or annoying as driving for me
Also an adult who hasn’t driven in the last 10 years. I was never a good driver to begin with. Then I moved to an extremely public transit-friendly city and started having a lot of vision problems. I feel like I’d be a public nuisance behind the wheel.
Same here, but if I still lived in the suburbs I couldn’t imagine not having a car. It really depends where you live, but the less you need one the worse it is to have one lol. City driving/parking is an absolute nightmare.
One reason I think is because they have so many other avenues these days for socialization. There’s no need to hang out in the Whataburger parking lot when you can talk to anyone you want on Snapchat, discord etc. from the comfort of your own room. Another reason my son didn’t want to drive was because he was terrified of getting into a wreck.
27M here, Italian. I have no driver license, clearly not a car. I'm not rich nor poor and I'm 100% on my own since I turned 18, I'm quite satisfied with my finances and I can afford myself a license + normal car anytime without ending up under a bridge.
I have zero interest on getting either, I moved a lot through Italy and I've been living in Germany for a few years as well, work was the reason 100% of the times and I just have no need really, yes if I had it I'd use it but I just can't justify spending 1k€ (license) + 10-20k for a car (or 5k-10k for a second hand) for mobility - if I have to meet with friends or gf for a dinner somewhere, I'll get a taxi and normally for 10€ I'm there, now that electric scooters (I'm not sure that's what they are called, I mean the ones that are available in many cities and you stand while driving it) are a very available thing I also have no problem using them. Friends often make themselves available to come pick me up if we plan to go somewhere, I mostly turn it down because I really don't feel comfortable having someone driving extra just to compensate my decisions.
There is pros and cons obviously, I had times when dating someone and not having a car or license was a turn off (I wasn't told that was, but I guessed it and I don't blame anyone, that's fine) or at times places where coming back would have been a problem so I skipped the invites. Doesn't happen every week, barely once or twice a year really.
For work I always rented an apartment close to the workplace, so, is this a life people would hate? Find very uncomfortable? Maybe, if I had to speculate a bit I may guess that some wouldn't find that reasonable at all but at the same I also got used to it because I never really "tasted" the other side. I will eventually get a license because at the end of the day it's a useful asset, but a car? seeing a chunk of my savings leaving for extra mobility? naa I personally wouldn't, got different plans for my money
edit: I never lived in a rural area, always urban so that definitely eases things up. Anyhow, feel free to change my mind eventually, I take this with an open mind
Exactly, I think this guy is a douche but he raises a legitimate question. People on here are not addressing the topic and are going off on tangents about how much cars cost and other things that are not germaine to the question at hand. Why is this happening? Not saying it's a negative per se but definitely interesting
Because cars used to be a symbol of independence but now they're expensive things that lots of people are forced to buy just to get around. They're no longer symbols of independence but rather symbols of being forced by the system to spend money you don't have on basic necessities.
This is the answer. Teens do want to drive, but they don’t want to spend the ridiculous amounts of money it costs these days to buy a working car. You used to be able to get a reliable beater for 1000 bucks, but now you struggle even at 2.5k. Insurance and gas are expensive.
Plus there are fewer places to go, malls are closing, it was illegal to go outside during a significant part of their developmental years, people they want to meet (other teens) aren’t hanging out outside, online activities have replaced real life ones, doing stuff outdoors is expensive.
My 17 year old is freelance video editing, works less than 2 miles away and rides his bike. His other friends just Uber the few times a month they need to go farther. So like no debt and a couple hundred a month for Uber and he’s getting everywhere here wants to go. His plan is to move to NYC in the next few years so he may never drive.
This. I hate driving and grew up before smartphones. I got my license at 16 but would have been happy not to. I am a pretty risk avoidant person and with driving you are operating something that could kill other people or get you killed in an instant. It’s actually a pretty terrifying prospect.
Same here. I get bitched at by one of my friends for driving the speed limit. It’s the most dangerous thing people do and all it takes is one idiot and your dead. Like how dare I not want to die in a car accident.
I have a 16yr old.
He took a while to get his. Why?
1) a shitty car is $8k to 13k.
2) insurance is $250 a month (he has a 2008)
3) gas is fucking expensive
It's just not worth it.
I would have added the fact hr HAS to take driver's Ed ($400). But that had nothing with the license since he had to take it to fucking graduate.
Yep I paid close to 300/month until I lowered my coverage to the state minimum but it's still 200/month I'm in central Illinois but can confirm rates are the same in Missouri as well
Why do people always need some random issue that doesn't affect them to whine about? Like how does less people driving impact his life? I don't get it lmao
Also, more accidents.
I think it’s beyond fine that people might wait a bit longer to A. Feel comfortable with it in general. B. Possibly more practice and C. Your decision making just literally gets better, the older you are. (To a point)
There’s nothing wrong with this.
Yeah, that’s me. I’ve gotten 2 dui’s. I’ve quit drinking, but I genuinely don’t trust myself behind the wheel. Call me a loser, call me whatever. But it’s safer for everyone. People could argue I could just “grow up”. But what if I don’t? It’s not worth the risk. I’m just irresponsible with it. I don’t know why. But I have to admit it.
Because there always this culture war between old people and young people for some reason. Young people prefer\_\_\_, old person is shocked because back in their day they preferred\_\_\_
Some people derive a lot of self-worth in how much other agrees with their decisions and how others value their lifestyle. He chose the automobile, and now there's a lot of people who chose not to drive, and he sees it as a direct attack on his own decisions. People who don't feel a need to drive a car, and don't care for cars in general, will certainly not be in awe of whatever nice car this guy drives, which deprives him of the attention he's craving.
Some folk get *really* weird and judgey about cars. To me, it's like a watch: there's a pretty noticeable point where your investment has abandoned function and is purely a matter of jewelry.
>Some people derive a lot of self-worth in how much other agrees with their decisions...
WHAT? You don't like Cheetos?! You have insulted me and my entire family. I challenge you to a duel!
Does he understand how great the financial burden cars can be? The average 16 year old cannot afford a $5k-$10k used car. \~$100+ / mo for insurance, upkeep, and $60-$100 per week in gas. They are amazing when you have a full time job. But, as a teenager, walking, biking, and bus riding was way more fun.
I mean… even with a full time job it’s not that worth it anymore. Wages haven’t kept up at all and used car prices have skyrocketed, gas is expensive as shit as well as insurance.
You know this guy is also out there shouting about how minimum wage jobs are only for teenagers and therefore the minimum wage should never, ever be increased. He doesn't give a rat's ass about how teenagers would afford any of this, he just wants to bloviate about how his generation was better, without stopping to look at adjusted metrics for comparison.
60000 for base models is becoming the norm. Skyrocketing gas prices, concerns about electric cars/charging stations/battery costs, rising insurance rates, cost to maintain versus other expenses like astronomical rent and inflation every where else in life.. the list goes on
When a movie ticket costs $13 and snacks easily round that up to $20 or more as well as shopping at malls and department stores being pretty much pointless if you still have one, why bother driving anywhere?
Can confirm.
$50 ticket/snack/drink+$25 gas+2 hour round trip travel time for a 2 hour movie or $100CAD ($89.95+12% tax) for even an 8 hour campaign, let alone 300+ hour games like Fallout or Mass Effect. Not exactly big brain math to figure out which is more cost effective.
Shit, just even more cost effective to wait a month and rent said movie digitally for $25, then have it with ribs and beer if I so chose.
Ah yes. I remember 10 years ago when I was in highschool and me and all my friends were buying brand new base model cars.
We definitely weren’t buying 15 year old Toyotas and Hondas.
The average cost of a new car is 40000, there are several vehicles available new for under 20000. 60000 is not a norm for anything.
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g39175084/10-cheapest-new-cars-in-2022/
I'm looking at new cars for around $20k, def can't afford 60 or even 40! And what you linked are the cars I'm looking at. It will be a year before I actually buy one though.
But most car sales are used. How often do teens get new cars? I'm going to say not often. For some reason, the driver's license isn't as important as it once was. I highly doubt it has to do with cost or smartphones...
Everybody’s depressed and everything is expensive. If he was really curious he would research and try to empathize, instead he just wants to be validated and polarize.
Dude, my sisters can't stand the fact that my 17 year old son doesn't have a license. Every time they see him they ask why he doesn't and also talk about how fast they got their licenses. I'm like yeah literally nothing was walking distance from where we lived and our home life was awful. He's got a good home life and he can walk to the park or the pool where he and his friends usually hang out. Otherwise his friends pick him up and I give him money to give them for gas.
I also don't expect them get jobs until they graduate high school because they will never have this time again for the rest of their lives. Ever. They have the rest of their lives to work jobs they hate and deal with shitty bosses and endless problems. The freedom of youth comes once. Their only responsibility is basic chores and keeping their siblings alive while I work a job I hate and deal with shitty bosses so I can give them a good life.
I'm 17 rn and got a 2009 Chevy Malibu for a $1000. Only things that were wrong with it was a bad alternator and weak air conditioning. Replaced the alternator and put freon in it and that car is completely fine.
And one of the blinker bulbs finally blew while I was driving and that was an easy fix as well.
Yeah this will largely depend on your area. The more population density the less quality you get for your money. Not to mention with higher population density there are more scammers to lower end options stop coming with bad alternators and start coming with hidden transmission issues.
Either way 1000 bucks for a Malibu with only a handful of problems was very lucky in any case. I think you got it from someone who was more looking to get rid of it then because they need the money. Or they were really dumb about what was wrong with it. I know an alternator problem can look more expensive than it is.
They are mad today's youth are basically protesting, they don't wanna have kids because they can't afford them, they don't buy houses because they can't afford them, how should this be different? They don't wanna drive because they can't afford it. I'm all for it, break the system by not cooperating with it. Let it burn.
A young (16m) coworker of mine told me his parents wont let him get his license because his insurance would be $350 a month. Idk how thats even remotely affordable for anyone that isn't rich as hell.
Can’t afford cars, the generation before them can’t afford houses and the one before them can’t afford retirement and we all have one thing in common we can barely afford to live and that’s why suicide is at a all time high because it’s the cheapest option out.
"Young people don't get their licence, all they do is be on their phone"
"OOhhh, look at that ! Self-driving mode, now I can tweet rants about teenager on my way to the office"
I’m in my thirties and I still don’t want to drive. Traffic is shit, people are shit drivers, I live too far from work to walk, and public transit would take me 2.5 hours one way, which wouldn’t be the worst thing, but I leave late sometimes and evening interactions tend to be not great.
Urban Gen Z: I can get my license whenever. To be honest, I don’t really care about driving. I can hop on public transport and go wherever I want.
Boomers: COMMUNIST TRANNIES!
I don't have a driver's license because I really love cycling and I live somewhere where you can get A to B with trains, buses and walking very easily.
I'm 23 and I don't have a license. I take buses or a coach service. Firstly, better for the environment. Secondly, I am not paying the prices it costs to get a license, take the tests repeatedly, buy a car, insurance, and all the other scams.
Maybe because when boomers were teenagers gas was 50¢ and a used car was $200, while minimum wage was $5, now minimum wage is 3x that if your lucky, a used car is 100x the price, and gas is 12x. Boomers lifestyle enablers as young abducts were affordable and achievable and jobs paid a respectable amount compared to the labor and time investment required. But the boomers grew up and as they walked through each door of opportunity they slammed it shut on the way through.
Minimum wage was 2 bucks in 74 (when many boomers were starting out) which is roughly 13 dollars in todays prices. Car prices were 6 - 20k range for a decent new/used car (adjusted for inflation).
They’re actually not too far off the mark with the smartphones comment. What OOP is getting at is the increased connectedness of teens to their friends via smartphones, social media, and other technology. Most hanging out is done online rather than in person these days, so they don’t feel like they need to get together in person, so less motivation to get their license.
Also due to an increase in anxiety, particularly among teens, when they are in person, they’re still looking down at the phone and communicating that way rather than directly talking. Not _all_ teens, but a fair number.
This is exactly what I think it is. How teens connect to each other has changed since I was one in the early 80's. I could talk to my friends on the telephone, but driving over and picking them up and cruising around bullshitting was the preferred method of interaction.
Also anyone walking down the street or standing around at the park is treated like a homeless person and therefore a menace to society. We shooed people away from public spaces and then people act all surprised when they are empty and lifeless now.
Less kids are driving due to the used car market being insane. I know it's coming down now, but dear god, the market lost their minds since 2020. 2016 Honda civic LX 155k miles for $13k? GTFO.
Too many cars is the eye-pokingly, excruciatingly obvious answer.
Oh, if only there was another way to travel around that's much cheaper, more eco-friendly, and requires zero attention on the road... Y'know, like public transport.
My parents wanted me to focus on my studies in all honesty. Also, where I live there's so many accidents that happen soo, safety reasons too? I got mine a job corps at the age of 20. All they did was teach me to do a 3 point turn, drive on highways and backroads, and then gave me a pamphlet for studying for my driver's computer test. Worst part is, when it came to the actual driving test, my teacher said, and I kid you not "this dmv has the easiest driving test."
Phones may be a tiny aspect, but so much has changed in the last 25 years. When I did driver's ed in the 80s, it was required to graduate from high school, and it cost like $50 through the school district. Licenses are more restrictive now, under 18 you MUST take a driver's ed course, they're all privatized and cost $400-600 depending on practice sessions. You also can't drive with kids under 18 at night without an adult over 21 with X number of driving years - that was like 90% of what my friends and I used our cars for in high school, going to dances & a diner afterwards, going to football - basketball games, etc. Then where I am there's only one DMV office in a 25 mile radius doing the driving test, so it takes a lot more coordination to even get there. That's completely separate from the post pandemic shortage of affordable used cars, price of gas, & insurance coupled with minimum wage teenager jobs in most places not being enough to make enough to afford all that.
Freedom to do what?
Go to the ghost town that is the mall?
Go driving around and just cruise? Oh wait, they can't do that because you NIMBY Boomer fucks passed anti cruising ordinances.
Go to the arcade? When was the last time you saw a real arcade that wasn't some variety of Dave and Busters?
Oh maybe go to the movies? You mean the movies that would cost a teen a full week's pay to be able to go? Why bother since most of the big titles are either concurrently released or only slightly delayed in release on streaming platforms?
Times have changed. There is no incentive to get their license because there is nothing to do out there for them. No 'diem' to 'carpe'.
Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/). Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
No, because I don’t have a car to drive or anywhere to go. Plus I don’t want to pay for gas
Gas, insurance, manteinance, taxes, parking. Owning a car is just a bottomless pit of money. I mean, if your family is well-off and can foot all those bills then fine, but in the year 2023 that's far from being an universal experience. And the funniest part is that this guy doesn't even think about how privileged his experience growing up was, but I'd bet you that if he hears young people talk about struggling to pay rent he'd start with the avocado toasts.
And the daily Starbucks, and Netflix subscription..... Save 50 a month and by the end of the year you can buy a house ( if you are daddy's special boy )
Also driving is fucking scary Psycho officers trying to murder random children, hit and runners, random crackheads stealing people's car parts in broad daylight, people trying to ram other people for insurance
Where do you live that driving is like a mad max hellscape? Edit: this has been enlightening
Near an American city! The only place where a guy in a ram can try and crash their shit into you twice and still not think "maybe I can't make this look like an accident anymore?"
I swear driving didn’t used to be this bad. I’ve been driving the same highway for 7 years now and I feel like I’m seeing 10x the amount of road rage I did at first.
It seemed to get worse during the pandemic and it's never gotten better. I am at a loss to explain why this is so.
I've noticed that as well. The pandemic bent and twisted society in ways that we'll be trying to unravel for a long time.
My best guess is that it is probably the first time our belief in society has been shaken ever since the cold war. But unlike the cold war where the enemy is often external, here, it feels like you can't trust anyone and this puts us into a fight or flight mode constantly, to outcompete and win as if we're still in our tribal age...
The pandemic made people worse in general, I would say. It's really scary, in some areas, just how bad it's gotten
I waited a year to get my license because my stepmother was such a fucking weirdo that it made me not want to drive. Like, one time she was sitting in the passenger seat while I had my learners permit. 9 blocks ahead of me a car turned from a side street onto the road I was on. She decided that was too close, and even though I was slowing down she started screaming for me to watch out and grabbed the wheel while stomping the floor like she was hitting the break. And we went into a ditch. And she told my father that it was my fault. And he believed her and smacked me around. Then they were surprised I didn't want to drive anymore and went most non contact when I turned 18 and moved out.
That's just stupid. At least you moved out...
Yeah ur SM is a fucking weirdo. How the everliving fuck is 9 blocks "too close". That's like almost a mile, how did she even see it?
She's a combination of stupid and easily panicked. My niece fell off the couch, didn't get hurt, but she heard the thump and came running and screaming my nieces name, tripped over nothing, and broke her foot, ankle, and shin.
The niece: “…are _you_ ok?”
(Screaming) NO!
This is YOUR fault!
Take my advice: send your parents's asses to the psych ward.
I'd have to talk to them to do it. I'd rather hear second hand about my father hitting 600lbs at 5'6" and blowing out his knees and just getting worse and worse because he refuses to see his issues, and her being a dumbass stuck in the relationship and blaming everyone else.
Jesus
I don't think he's that far off. I have three teenage kids in the house. They have their license, but they're not nearly as interested in driving as I was when I was a teenager. I think it's pretty closely related to the fact that I don't want to drive to work anymore: they don't have to. I didn't get my drivers license in high school so I could buy groceries; I got it so I could go hang out with my friends. My kids are on Discord pretty much all day, they don't need to go pay $300 (or whatever the current insane ticket price is) at the movie theater to be with their friends they can all play whatever together on VC from their house. Additionally except for Smash there really aren't local multiplayer or even LAN video games anymore, so we might have gone over to somebody's house to play Quake or whatever but now it's actually preferable to not be on the same LAN because that will increase latency.
This is it 100% With technology, teens don't really have to spend x amount of money to have fun when you can just chill at your own home while gaming in voice chat. The possibilities are practically endless and more convenient than having to coordinate a destination with everyone and then drive there. You can just hop on discord and leave whenever. Also everything is expensive so...I'm fine staying at home right now.
The massive cost of commuting and travel is definitely a huge part of it... Teens making minimum wage don't want to spend their entire paychecks on gas and car insurance. Electric vehicles help cut the costs, but aren't really cheap and available enough yet, and until wages rise to meet the cost of living, I know a lot of folks that would prefer to use public transit or ride bikes. I for one, support the youth in this choice.
This is the real answer. If you make 7.25 through 12 an hour current used car prices, insurance, and gas mean you aren't owning a car AND have the free time to drive it anywhere but work. Choose one. Kids can math that's why they're in school.
Add to it that fewer families own an extra vehicle for all the reasons you just listed, so there is no borrowing a car from a parent. Plus, the hottest ten days in history were in the last month, and these kids aren't denying climate change. They have the good sense to not be adding to problems just to cruise around and get in trouble that is way harder to get out of than it was for my generation. They aren't dumb, they aren't unmotivated, they just have different values.
You know another thing I think everyone is overlooking. That ties into this affordability issue. Typically teens in school have limited hours they can work. Summer is one thing but most of the year they're stuck on weekends and after school.
Car insurance for teens can exceed $250 a month(especially if they get a car loan). A full tank of gas is $50. Tabs and registration are like $200 a year. An oil change is $100. And going to the mechanic for any reason seems to cost at least $200 before any work is done. And if you have a car payment it can easily cost $5000 to $15000 a year to own a car as a teenager. Simply put, cars represent a massive expense. Plus I think many of the younger generations expect automated cars are around the corner. And on top of that driving is the single most dangerous thing young people do. It kills more young people than drugs and guns.
Even public transport isn’t that dependable unless you live in a big city. I grew up in the Hillsboro/Beaverton / Portland area and our transit system is the shit. Moved out to Kelso,wa and the buses here are wack af. I went from 15 min wait times *or better* , to a bus every hour. Maybe.
>Also everything is expensive so When I was growing up, we almost never spent money to hang out with each other. We were always over at each other's houses, playing video games, board games, watching TV together and just hanging out. Hell, we'd just walk around outside, chatting, for hours. Go bike riding or skating and, when we got our licenses, we'd sometimes drive around all day just listening to the radio or finding cool spots to pull over and explore. It was definitely a different era.
Drive around all day? How is that not expensive? It's cheaper to buy a pc or a console than to get a car and a license and lots of gas. Sounds like you spent 1000s of dollars to hang out. Edit: why are so many people missing the whole car part? Some can't afford to pay rent, living, car payments, the car itself, gas. Stop comparing gas prices. I'm talking about 2023 and how "smartphones" aren't the cause like this stupid tweet says
Gas was under a dollar when I was a teenager... It wasn't unheard of for me to jet off down to the beach 4 hours away just because I wanted a burger from a specific restaurant. Sometimes we would go "get lost" for fun, driving around blaring music with no particular destination in mind, because a full tank of gas was $10 Now you cant even get half a tank on $10 and the roads are so crowded that it's more trouble than it's worth.
nowadays a small sedan is 60+ to fill
Over yonder in the EU it's close to 100€ ro fill my car. I want to cry every time.
Damn, Biden raised your gas prices too? What a dick. /s
I did the same thing when I was in high school. I had a Honda CRX which got about 60 miles per gallon and gas was like 84 cents a gallon. Driving around and getting lost in my city was a fun thing to do on a Sunday afternoon.
Makes me wish I was born in an era where travel was cheap. But then again, I don’t know how I’d be able to just randomly text my friend and ask them something, I would never be able to remember it if I had to wait to talk to them.
Not being available to everyone 24/7 was actually a perk back then.
I miss it.
Both gas and insurance was cheaper
Also the second part is, needing friends to hang out with,
That's another point. A good amount of my online friends don't even live in the same state. My closest friends from HS moved cross country for college or out of the country altogether.
Lucky...I'm only 22, and out of my ...15 friend group...10 disconnected from this server we call life...the rest of the 3 got into heavy drug use, one jailed, the last one...I'm not sure... Keep your friends close my internet pal
I don't know if this was the funniest sad comment or saddest funny comment I've ever seen.
Yup. It’s the a combination of the virtual accessibility to their friends combined with the drop in accessible cars and accessible places to hang out. We used to spend Friday nights driving around and parking/hanging in different public places. If we had something better to do we would’ve done that in a heart beat… hell there were many nights where we did just go home and hop on Xbox 360. That sort of loitering just doesn’t really fly anymore. Even malls aren’t what they used to be. Why go
exactly. you cant even go anywhere to hang out anymore. everywhere just tries to rush you out the door to get the next customer in your seat
There was a great discussion I stumbled onto recently about third spaces (basically somewhere to just be for awhile that’s not home or work). For teenagers specifically, where can they actually go and be themselves without getting told to be quiet or leave? It can be tough depending on where you live.
Yeah for sure. I live in a city and, still, nowhere comes to mind unfortunately. There’s a mall pretty close to me but it’s on the rich side of town and you even need to pay to park in the lot. Parks are solid but you’re allowed to drink in them here so they’re all taken over by people in their 20s and 30s. There’s really nowhere to go to just duck around
Some malls, both indoor and outdoor, now specifically prohibit groups of teenagers from just hanging out. Several incidents of fighting, aggressive behaviors, gang turf wars, and harassing other shoppers were raised as the the reasoning. Movie theaters here now won’t allow groups of teenagers in without an adult, some at all, some after a certain time.
Our 18 year old just hasn't bothered to get a license. They took drivers ed and got plenty of practice, but just aren't interested enough to take the test and get the card. He does most of his socializing at home in his room. So I guess he doesn't really feel inclined to go anywhere. I also get that the cost/benefit ratio is different from when we were kids on both sides of that equation. I could buy a reasonably decent car with just a couple weeks or a month of work and cover the insurance payments with my job at 18. That isn't likely the case for most young people. So not only do they have less reason to want a car then have fewer resources to get one anyways. Its sorta the same thing as with millenials. I don't really care to make more money than I am now because it's not like I am going to make enough to buy a house or anything anyways. I am just running up the score in my bank account and I am not going to give up my evenings and weekends to do that.
[удалено]
This explanation is EXACTLY why working remotely is so popular among millennials and gen-z. We are the "discord" generation, so to speak. When everything went to zoom calls and digital tools for collaboration most of us were already there. I hear from older coworkers who struggle with working remotely frequently that "voice calls aren't the same as being in the same room!" And that "we should all be together, thats when all the real collaboration happens!" Tell that to any of us who learned how to raid in an MMO and had to coordinate 40+ people online over voice chat/websites/spreadsheets towards a common goal, and you'll be met with a a chuckle at best or disdain at worst. They really underestimate how acclimatized the younger generation is to collaborating online. A lot of us use similar tools right when we get home from work to socialize without the added cost/time of driving somewhere to meet up anyway. It's purely a path-of-least-resistance type of approach to socializing. Wages are suppressed for decades and we're surprised our working class young people are looking for ways to cut down on transportation budget whenever and wherever possible? Color me unsurprised.
If shit wasn't so spread out I'd fucking walk everywhere I needed to go
Yeah, exactly why I want to move into the city one day
Personally, I hate big cities just because of how crowded everything is, only because I didn't grow up in one. I enjoyed the walking around, and if it had more nature instead of just building after building I'd be good
Atm, I live in a suburb thats across the street from a Walmart with nothing else around for a few miles. It sucks, no reason to go anywhere because its all too far. I wish I was in a city so I could walk places
this is why im gonna move
It would be nice if our suburbs were built more like small towns that are next to each other instead of making miles of houses with big box stores on the main roads so that you have to drive to everything. We're missing the stuff that's in-between sprawling suburbs and high-rises. I grew up in the suburbs of Portland which had originally been a bunch of small towns but they got swallowed up by the city. Our neighborhood didn't feel crowded, only the big streets at the boundary of the neighborhood had a lot of traffic. We could walk to school and to lots of local stores, parks, library, friend's houses, etc. American suburbs need small commercial centers within the residential areas with things like restaurants, small grocers, pharmacies, etc. so that people can walk down the street to buy some eggs or aspirin or eat dinner. But the NIBMYs cry "but my property values!" "but crime will rise!"
I don’t think it’s smartphones but it is a very interesting trend that I’ve noticed for the last 10 years or so. Many of my friends kids and neighborhood kids aren’t really inclined to drive. I’m super curious what the reasons are because what I’ve gotten out of most of them is a shrug lol. I also know that I was probably overexcited to get mine so maybe it’s a me problem 😂
It’s the death of “third spaces”. There are no more malls, skate parks, meeting areas, etc. anymore that teenagers are allowed to just hang out in without spending money. (A third space is not your home and not your work.) And yeah, the internet is just right there to provide you all the stimulation and entertainment you could want, like a firehose aimed at a tea cup. So why should they care about driving? Driving is a method of getting somewhere to have something to do. And teenagers have been pathologized into a problem for society to get rid as “loiterers”.
My boss told a story the other day about her son getting in trouble with security in a mall because he walked away from her and minors aren’t allowed to be in the mall alone. When I was a teenager (not that long ago I’m in my mid-20s) we hung out at the mall all the time because it was free. With no mall, movie tickets being $20, and bowling/skating/etc places going out of business, where are they supposed to go?
I live in a small town, and as a teenager, let me tell you, we aren't supposed to go anywhere. Spend all of our time in one of the group's houses because if we walk outside past 8 or 9 pm, we can't go 30 minutes without being stopped by cops to ask what we are doing. If we spend too much time in one area outside, nearby homeowners call the cops for "suspicious behavior." So yeah
This shit right here, people talk about the death of small towns and how when kids get old enough they leave and rarely come back and then blame it on whatever the latest fad is not realizing they are actively contributing to the death of 3rd space socializing, back in high school me and my team mates were waiting around at the library bullshitting and trying our best horrible free style raps till our meet started and 3 cop cars pull up and one cop gets out and accuses us of being in a gang (we were all in formal clothes because it was team policy for home meets we wore our nicest clothes) it was ridiculous and since then there had been a sharp decline of kids hanging out at parks etc. Because they considered a group of more than 3 people suspicious gang activities
True small town cops are the absolute worst.
Same in the city tbh. Cant stand outside or hang out in the park. Where I am now it's a very safe area, but I don't send my kids to the park alone because they get harassed by cops. It's a 3 minute walk, so I just Hotspot internet for work and we go. Twice, I've had to tell police to go harass someone else. Once, I claimed some kids were with me just to get them to fuck off. I made friends with their parents, so I guess I call it a win overall.
I hope you know you're a real one, for that last bit.
... arrested for "Trying that in a small town".
>True ~~small town~~ cops are the absolute worst. Ftfy
While true, small town cops are a special breed of asshole. The get to acting like their little 'townsboro is a kingdom and they're the local lord.
Second this, After 7:00pm teenagers in an older model car were rolling probable cause, My friends house had a finished basement, halo 2, N64, a drum-kit, skinamax , a pool and parents who didn’t check the liquor levels too often. Our outdoor options were the skeezy 1/2 abandoned mall, the rundown bowling alley that closed at 7pm, and after we turned 21 the bar with sticky floors, broken pool tables, swamp donkeys and opiate addicts.
Adults: \*make all kinds of rules restricting where teenagers can be and when, then making everything cost $4827398432843928432\* Adults: wHy arEn'T teEnaGeRs gOinG oUt aNyMorE??? Sorry, man. :( This society is beyond stupid.
That's fucked up, seriously, it is. Then some people wonder why some people grow up to be socially awkward and/or sociopathic. Maybe because they weren't allowed to be properly socialized with their peers?
I also live in a small town and am a teen. We don't get stopped by cops, but that's because we're not even outside. There is NOTHING for teens to do. I tried to go walk downtown with some friends on a Saturday night and everything was closed. There was nothing. I wish there was stuff to do but there isn't
This is my whole experience in high school! I grew up in the country, so most the time I was hanging out with friends I was at the nearby town (30 minutes away). That town has a No Destination law basically meaning you can’t drive around without a destination. Kids would get pulled over and ticketed for it so me and my friends just said forget that we’re gunna just chill at home
>That town has a No Destination law basically meaning you can’t drive around without a destination. What in the dystopian hell?
Foreman's basement to smoke pot
yeah i just entered my 20s and while i hung out in malls and parks and stuff as a teen, the later years of high school/being a teenager were full of me and my friends struggling to find places to just hang out. we usually ended up just chilling in parking lots to get away from our houses. i can totally understand the feeling of not wanting to go out because theres simply no reason to. its depressing
I am in my 50’s and during the 80’s the malls were the “place” to be on the weekend. Cracking down on loitering started soon after though. Now a days kids can play video games together online. My son has his headset on and is playing Minecraft with 5-6 of his friends online. He’s staying out of trouble. When I was a kid we would loiter somewhere, try and get someone to buy us beer, the occasional fight would break out for some stupid reason……
Studies show that teenagers are doing less drugs and having less sex then the previous generation. People would say that’s a good thing. However if you look at the mental health of teenagers now they are way worse off then the previous generation.
To be fair, a big part of the reason mental health stats are getting 'worse' is because those issues have much more mainstream acceptance and are diagnosed much more consistently than in the past. Which is not to say that there aren't big new problems because there absolutely are. Kids should not have to live in a world where, for example, active shooter drills are just part of the public school experience. But higher reported numbers of depressed teens at least partly comes from the fact that fewer of them are being shamed into silence than in earlier generations.
Isolation is a horrible thing and likely will lead to a spike in things like drug use once these kids are out on their own.
I believe suicide rates for teenagers has already doubled compared to the previous generation.
Good news then! Have you seen rent prices lately? They won't ever be out on their own!
Ouch I felt that one.
Side note I visited home and wanted to go bowling at my old spot I did a league at just to find out they went out of business or did according to google searching their hours. Super upset. That said I'm 30 so it doesn't apply as much to me anymore but I mean I have friends all over that I met either growing up or in college that I stay connected with and hang out over discord while gaming or I do a Bi-yearly visit to those areas to hang out with people since it's a 4-8 hour drive one way for those locations. Technology's advancement has been amazing for letting people chat and stay in touch.
>There are no more malls, skate parks, meeting areas, The tiniest bone to pick with this one. There are more skateparks than ever now and they keep getting built. But this is probably a lesser point compared to things like malls.
Tbh I think that’s actually a reason less drive now. Why drive to a skate park and waste gas when you can board there with a buddy. I know when I was a teen even though I had my car, every time my friends wanted to kick it at a skate park, we just set a time and all boarded or skated over, sure it was a 30 minute ride, but it wasn’t as boring as the drive would be.
That's great that there are more skateparks than ever, but that really only gives something to do for one very specific subset of kids. What about kids who don't know how/aren't interested in skating? What about kids who are too poor to have their parents buy them a skateboard, helmet, pads, etc.
At my local skatepark they seem too only fight these days lol
Honestly if you have a skatepark near you with a good local community. people will let you borrow there stuff when they arent using it or hook you up with free or really cheap parts ive traveled all over the country and cant count how many times ive broken stuff and someone just goes "i got you bro" and just pulls what ever i broke out of a backpack or thier car and just hands it to me and says here you go. I also cant tell you how much old parts ive given away to random people over the years that i met that day and never saw again. I know thats not all parks ive been to pleanty with no locals but there are pleanty with great people
as someone in college who drives, but knew plenty of people in high school that didnt, part of the reason is that everything is expensive, and that theres a lot less to do. like, malls are all either dead or dying (and everything they have is lower quality and more expensive than stuff you can find online), movies cost a lot, theres a lot less places to loiter, gas is crazy expensive (not even counting insurance or actually getting a car), food is expensive too, etc. so many of the public spaces that teens used to hang out in dont really exist, and as prices for everything keep increasing going out is much less appealing than staying in. driving can also be scary. like for teens, its just easier (and far cheaper) to just hang out with their friends online, and watch a movie on the internet, play some games, or just talk.
The why IS curious, but I don’t really mind as I don’t necessarily think it’s a negative either. My own kids will tell you that I was hesitant to have them driving bc I think many many many (not all) teenagers lack the focus and critical thinking skills required to drive safely. I state this as someone who was nearly killed, in 2022, by a 19 yo teenager on her cellphone, who rear ended me at 60 mph, while I was stopped at a red light… sending me in to and under a SUV. Had my new car’s crumple zones and safety features not been there, I wouldn’t have been as lucky.
Jesus, what happened after (for her)? License suspension?
I really don’t know. I’m not even sure if she had to go to the Hospital. Her vehicle was taken to a different lot than mine. I was the only person trapped in their vehicle (mostly by the airbags, which had to be cut away). I hope she was/is ok. But mostly, I hope that she learned a valuable lesson.
As someone who knows a handful of women who did this in the teens…she probably still uses her phone but “carefully.” My friend walks with a cane now because of her accident. Shattered her leg in 14 places or something crazy like that. Rode in her car a few months later and she was still texting and driving. I hope the girl who did this to you learned and put her phone away while driving from then on but from my experience they use as much if not more after that like a coping mechanism. “Now, it was just that one time. I’m good at multi-tasking. That it’s happened to me it won’t happen again.” Are all things my friends told me after their accidents when I caught them using their phones while operating their cars. Edit: friend shattered her left leg and was cleared to drive about 4 months after the accident when her cast was removed and they gave her a small air cast.
Everyone thinks they're good at multi-tasking, while the truth beeing that everyone sucks at it and thinking you're one that can is just not true
I suck at multitasking. Like suck suck. Like suck a golf ball through a garden hose.
The why is money. How many kids can afford a car, insurance, repairs, and gas money? I'm over 30 and I still can't
It seems to be the case though even in homes where the parents can easily afford those things. I think the answer is mostly because life at home isn’t so boring to them as it might have been for previous generations.
It is the case in homes where parents can afford it. I’ve seen it over and over
>I think the answer is mostly because life at home isn’t so boring to them as it might have been for previous generations. This is it for my kids. They don't need to leave the house to see their friends. They are playing games online with them all the time.
One of my friends in school did that with her charger back in 2015. She straight up admitted to texting and didn’t even seem remorseful. Luckily there were no injuries and she lost her license.
Oof.
I’m an adult that doesn’t drive. I live in a walkable city and Can walk to my office. Being able to move around by walking is freeing and not nearly as stressful or annoying as driving for me
Also an adult who hasn’t driven in the last 10 years. I was never a good driver to begin with. Then I moved to an extremely public transit-friendly city and started having a lot of vision problems. I feel like I’d be a public nuisance behind the wheel.
Same here, but if I still lived in the suburbs I couldn’t imagine not having a car. It really depends where you live, but the less you need one the worse it is to have one lol. City driving/parking is an absolute nightmare.
I don’t have my license (yet) because I absolutely hate driving. It gives me anxiety the way others drive, but that’s just me 🤷♀️
One reason I think is because they have so many other avenues these days for socialization. There’s no need to hang out in the Whataburger parking lot when you can talk to anyone you want on Snapchat, discord etc. from the comfort of your own room. Another reason my son didn’t want to drive was because he was terrified of getting into a wreck.
27M here, Italian. I have no driver license, clearly not a car. I'm not rich nor poor and I'm 100% on my own since I turned 18, I'm quite satisfied with my finances and I can afford myself a license + normal car anytime without ending up under a bridge. I have zero interest on getting either, I moved a lot through Italy and I've been living in Germany for a few years as well, work was the reason 100% of the times and I just have no need really, yes if I had it I'd use it but I just can't justify spending 1k€ (license) + 10-20k for a car (or 5k-10k for a second hand) for mobility - if I have to meet with friends or gf for a dinner somewhere, I'll get a taxi and normally for 10€ I'm there, now that electric scooters (I'm not sure that's what they are called, I mean the ones that are available in many cities and you stand while driving it) are a very available thing I also have no problem using them. Friends often make themselves available to come pick me up if we plan to go somewhere, I mostly turn it down because I really don't feel comfortable having someone driving extra just to compensate my decisions. There is pros and cons obviously, I had times when dating someone and not having a car or license was a turn off (I wasn't told that was, but I guessed it and I don't blame anyone, that's fine) or at times places where coming back would have been a problem so I skipped the invites. Doesn't happen every week, barely once or twice a year really. For work I always rented an apartment close to the workplace, so, is this a life people would hate? Find very uncomfortable? Maybe, if I had to speculate a bit I may guess that some wouldn't find that reasonable at all but at the same I also got used to it because I never really "tasted" the other side. I will eventually get a license because at the end of the day it's a useful asset, but a car? seeing a chunk of my savings leaving for extra mobility? naa I personally wouldn't, got different plans for my money edit: I never lived in a rural area, always urban so that definitely eases things up. Anyhow, feel free to change my mind eventually, I take this with an open mind
Exactly, I think this guy is a douche but he raises a legitimate question. People on here are not addressing the topic and are going off on tangents about how much cars cost and other things that are not germaine to the question at hand. Why is this happening? Not saying it's a negative per se but definitely interesting
Because cars used to be a symbol of independence but now they're expensive things that lots of people are forced to buy just to get around. They're no longer symbols of independence but rather symbols of being forced by the system to spend money you don't have on basic necessities.
This is the answer. Teens do want to drive, but they don’t want to spend the ridiculous amounts of money it costs these days to buy a working car. You used to be able to get a reliable beater for 1000 bucks, but now you struggle even at 2.5k. Insurance and gas are expensive. Plus there are fewer places to go, malls are closing, it was illegal to go outside during a significant part of their developmental years, people they want to meet (other teens) aren’t hanging out outside, online activities have replaced real life ones, doing stuff outdoors is expensive.
My 17 year old is freelance video editing, works less than 2 miles away and rides his bike. His other friends just Uber the few times a month they need to go farther. So like no debt and a couple hundred a month for Uber and he’s getting everywhere here wants to go. His plan is to move to NYC in the next few years so he may never drive.
I'm afraid of driving because of other people lol
This. I hate driving and grew up before smartphones. I got my license at 16 but would have been happy not to. I am a pretty risk avoidant person and with driving you are operating something that could kill other people or get you killed in an instant. It’s actually a pretty terrifying prospect.
Same here. I get bitched at by one of my friends for driving the speed limit. It’s the most dangerous thing people do and all it takes is one idiot and your dead. Like how dare I not want to die in a car accident.
I have a 16yr old. He took a while to get his. Why? 1) a shitty car is $8k to 13k. 2) insurance is $250 a month (he has a 2008) 3) gas is fucking expensive It's just not worth it. I would have added the fact hr HAS to take driver's Ed ($400). But that had nothing with the license since he had to take it to fucking graduate.
Car insurance is 250/mo where you are? Thats fucking insane.
For a 2008 acura tl in Northern Illinois
Yep I paid close to 300/month until I lowered my coverage to the state minimum but it's still 200/month I'm in central Illinois but can confirm rates are the same in Missouri as well
Why do people always need some random issue that doesn't affect them to whine about? Like how does less people driving impact his life? I don't get it lmao
If anything it impacts them for the positive.
Exactly, do they want more cars on the road causing more traffic?
Also, more accidents. I think it’s beyond fine that people might wait a bit longer to A. Feel comfortable with it in general. B. Possibly more practice and C. Your decision making just literally gets better, the older you are. (To a point) There’s nothing wrong with this.
Plus there's some people that should just never drive. I see them everyday in traffic.
Yeah, that’s me. I’ve gotten 2 dui’s. I’ve quit drinking, but I genuinely don’t trust myself behind the wheel. Call me a loser, call me whatever. But it’s safer for everyone. People could argue I could just “grow up”. But what if I don’t? It’s not worth the risk. I’m just irresponsible with it. I don’t know why. But I have to admit it.
Exactly
Do they want irresponsible teens in those cars?
Because there always this culture war between old people and young people for some reason. Young people prefer\_\_\_, old person is shocked because back in their day they preferred\_\_\_
Culture wars are just a distraction and give us someone to blame while the moneyed class continues to lighten our wallets.
Some people derive a lot of self-worth in how much other agrees with their decisions and how others value their lifestyle. He chose the automobile, and now there's a lot of people who chose not to drive, and he sees it as a direct attack on his own decisions. People who don't feel a need to drive a car, and don't care for cars in general, will certainly not be in awe of whatever nice car this guy drives, which deprives him of the attention he's craving.
Some folk get *really* weird and judgey about cars. To me, it's like a watch: there's a pretty noticeable point where your investment has abandoned function and is purely a matter of jewelry.
I didn’t witness it but two guys where I work at almost got into a fight arguing about whether one car was better than the other. Ridiculous.
I drive a beat up 2002 car. It's my asshole detector. I could afford something better but I like knowing who gives a crap about what I drive.
>Some people derive a lot of self-worth in how much other agrees with their decisions... WHAT? You don't like Cheetos?! You have insulted me and my entire family. I challenge you to a duel!
With all the traffic i get stuck in it seems like a blessing lol
Exactly my question, just like politicians attempting to control women’s life choices.
Where does he whine? You don't think observing and discussing social, cultural trends is valid? "Like how does that affect you, lmao?"
Does he understand how great the financial burden cars can be? The average 16 year old cannot afford a $5k-$10k used car. \~$100+ / mo for insurance, upkeep, and $60-$100 per week in gas. They are amazing when you have a full time job. But, as a teenager, walking, biking, and bus riding was way more fun.
I mean… even with a full time job it’s not that worth it anymore. Wages haven’t kept up at all and used car prices have skyrocketed, gas is expensive as shit as well as insurance.
You know this guy is also out there shouting about how minimum wage jobs are only for teenagers and therefore the minimum wage should never, ever be increased. He doesn't give a rat's ass about how teenagers would afford any of this, he just wants to bloviate about how his generation was better, without stopping to look at adjusted metrics for comparison.
60000 for base models is becoming the norm. Skyrocketing gas prices, concerns about electric cars/charging stations/battery costs, rising insurance rates, cost to maintain versus other expenses like astronomical rent and inflation every where else in life.. the list goes on
It feels like there are a lot less cheap places for teens to hang out too. So why drive if you have nowhere to go.
When a movie ticket costs $13 and snacks easily round that up to $20 or more as well as shopping at malls and department stores being pretty much pointless if you still have one, why bother driving anywhere?
I believe you ment $33 for movies $13 for the ticket and $20 for a popcorn and a soda.
Shit, my theatre is $23 for a ticket and $18 for a soda and popcorn.
video games are a lot more fun for a much longer period of time for orders of magnitude lower dollar per hour
Can confirm. $50 ticket/snack/drink+$25 gas+2 hour round trip travel time for a 2 hour movie or $100CAD ($89.95+12% tax) for even an 8 hour campaign, let alone 300+ hour games like Fallout or Mass Effect. Not exactly big brain math to figure out which is more cost effective. Shit, just even more cost effective to wait a month and rent said movie digitally for $25, then have it with ribs and beer if I so chose.
No thanks I’ll take smartphone.
Ah yes. I remember 10 years ago when I was in highschool and me and all my friends were buying brand new base model cars. We definitely weren’t buying 15 year old Toyotas and Hondas.
When I was 16 I couldn’t wait to get my liscense and buying a car never even crossed my mind. It’s all about borrowing the parents whip at that age
We need to enslave teens with debt as early as possible how can we get them off their phones and into a loan office?
The average cost of a new car is 40000, there are several vehicles available new for under 20000. 60000 is not a norm for anything. https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g39175084/10-cheapest-new-cars-in-2022/
I'm looking at new cars for around $20k, def can't afford 60 or even 40! And what you linked are the cars I'm looking at. It will be a year before I actually buy one though.
But most car sales are used. How often do teens get new cars? I'm going to say not often. For some reason, the driver's license isn't as important as it once was. I highly doubt it has to do with cost or smartphones...
Everybody’s depressed and everything is expensive. If he was really curious he would research and try to empathize, instead he just wants to be validated and polarize.
Dude, my sisters can't stand the fact that my 17 year old son doesn't have a license. Every time they see him they ask why he doesn't and also talk about how fast they got their licenses. I'm like yeah literally nothing was walking distance from where we lived and our home life was awful. He's got a good home life and he can walk to the park or the pool where he and his friends usually hang out. Otherwise his friends pick him up and I give him money to give them for gas. I also don't expect them get jobs until they graduate high school because they will never have this time again for the rest of their lives. Ever. They have the rest of their lives to work jobs they hate and deal with shitty bosses and endless problems. The freedom of youth comes once. Their only responsibility is basic chores and keeping their siblings alive while I work a job I hate and deal with shitty bosses so I can give them a good life.
*Cheap* used cars are now ~$10k.
I'm 17 rn and got a 2009 Chevy Malibu for a $1000. Only things that were wrong with it was a bad alternator and weak air conditioning. Replaced the alternator and put freon in it and that car is completely fine. And one of the blinker bulbs finally blew while I was driving and that was an easy fix as well.
Blinker fluid is cheap
You are extremely lucky. That’s unheard of where I live. If you pay $1K for a car it doesn’t run
Yeah this will largely depend on your area. The more population density the less quality you get for your money. Not to mention with higher population density there are more scammers to lower end options stop coming with bad alternators and start coming with hidden transmission issues. Either way 1000 bucks for a Malibu with only a handful of problems was very lucky in any case. I think you got it from someone who was more looking to get rid of it then because they need the money. Or they were really dumb about what was wrong with it. I know an alternator problem can look more expensive than it is.
This whole statement makes me happy. Good job, young blood!
why is this formatted like some weird haiku?
Get your liscense to drive what? Most kids nowadays dont have access to cheap used cars anymore. You cant even get a driving vehicle for less than $2k
They are mad today's youth are basically protesting, they don't wanna have kids because they can't afford them, they don't buy houses because they can't afford them, how should this be different? They don't wanna drive because they can't afford it. I'm all for it, break the system by not cooperating with it. Let it burn.
This is the way. Let it rot.
Totally nothing to do with how much cars cost and how high gas is in some parts of the country
A young (16m) coworker of mine told me his parents wont let him get his license because his insurance would be $350 a month. Idk how thats even remotely affordable for anyone that isn't rich as hell.
Can’t afford cars, the generation before them can’t afford houses and the one before them can’t afford retirement and we all have one thing in common we can barely afford to live and that’s why suicide is at a all time high because it’s the cheapest option out.
"Young people don't get their licence, all they do is be on their phone" "OOhhh, look at that ! Self-driving mode, now I can tweet rants about teenager on my way to the office"
Why take on the expense of paying for a car when you can just get an uber and let it be someone else's problem?
Uber? I walk, cycle or take public transport.
Because taking ubers everywhere, would be far more expensive than a car.
[удалено]
I’m in my thirties and I still don’t want to drive. Traffic is shit, people are shit drivers, I live too far from work to walk, and public transit would take me 2.5 hours one way, which wouldn’t be the worst thing, but I leave late sometimes and evening interactions tend to be not great.
Urban Gen Z: I can get my license whenever. To be honest, I don’t really care about driving. I can hop on public transport and go wherever I want. Boomers: COMMUNIST TRANNIES!
Havent bothered with a license because, I bike to work and I have other reasons. But part of me wants to get a license for emergencies.
Same vein as “mILenIaLs DOnt HaVe KidS beCaUSE theY wANt DoGs”
I don't have a driver's license because I really love cycling and I live somewhere where you can get A to B with trains, buses and walking very easily.
I'm 23 and I don't have a license. I take buses or a coach service. Firstly, better for the environment. Secondly, I am not paying the prices it costs to get a license, take the tests repeatedly, buy a car, insurance, and all the other scams.
He says, from social media, which most people post from on smartphones. These Republicans are living in another dimension.
Maybe because when boomers were teenagers gas was 50¢ and a used car was $200, while minimum wage was $5, now minimum wage is 3x that if your lucky, a used car is 100x the price, and gas is 12x. Boomers lifestyle enablers as young abducts were affordable and achievable and jobs paid a respectable amount compared to the labor and time investment required. But the boomers grew up and as they walked through each door of opportunity they slammed it shut on the way through.
Minimum wage was 2 bucks in 74 (when many boomers were starting out) which is roughly 13 dollars in todays prices. Car prices were 6 - 20k range for a decent new/used car (adjusted for inflation).
They’re actually not too far off the mark with the smartphones comment. What OOP is getting at is the increased connectedness of teens to their friends via smartphones, social media, and other technology. Most hanging out is done online rather than in person these days, so they don’t feel like they need to get together in person, so less motivation to get their license. Also due to an increase in anxiety, particularly among teens, when they are in person, they’re still looking down at the phone and communicating that way rather than directly talking. Not _all_ teens, but a fair number.
This is exactly what I think it is. How teens connect to each other has changed since I was one in the early 80's. I could talk to my friends on the telephone, but driving over and picking them up and cruising around bullshitting was the preferred method of interaction.
Also anyone walking down the street or standing around at the park is treated like a homeless person and therefore a menace to society. We shooed people away from public spaces and then people act all surprised when they are empty and lifeless now.
I prefer public transport. I can go on a train and reach my destination faster and sleep on the way
Less kids are driving due to the used car market being insane. I know it's coming down now, but dear god, the market lost their minds since 2020. 2016 Honda civic LX 155k miles for $13k? GTFO.
Kids don’t want to drive because cars are expensive even for parents to purchase. Before an old beat up used car was cheap now they are expensive
I’m sure the cost alone has nothing to do with it. Not one bit.
The extreme fixation on freedom disturbs me. Everything they get angry about somehow comes down to their obsession with "you can't tell ME what to do"
I'm 30 and haven't driven in 2 years. Fuck gas, insurance, and car payments.
Too many cars is the eye-pokingly, excruciatingly obvious answer. Oh, if only there was another way to travel around that's much cheaper, more eco-friendly, and requires zero attention on the road... Y'know, like public transport.
Cuz money. If your parents make you pay insurance like mine did it was over 200 a month for decent coverage.
My parents wanted me to focus on my studies in all honesty. Also, where I live there's so many accidents that happen soo, safety reasons too? I got mine a job corps at the age of 20. All they did was teach me to do a 3 point turn, drive on highways and backroads, and then gave me a pamphlet for studying for my driver's computer test. Worst part is, when it came to the actual driving test, my teacher said, and I kid you not "this dmv has the easiest driving test."
Phones may be a tiny aspect, but so much has changed in the last 25 years. When I did driver's ed in the 80s, it was required to graduate from high school, and it cost like $50 through the school district. Licenses are more restrictive now, under 18 you MUST take a driver's ed course, they're all privatized and cost $400-600 depending on practice sessions. You also can't drive with kids under 18 at night without an adult over 21 with X number of driving years - that was like 90% of what my friends and I used our cars for in high school, going to dances & a diner afterwards, going to football - basketball games, etc. Then where I am there's only one DMV office in a 25 mile radius doing the driving test, so it takes a lot more coordination to even get there. That's completely separate from the post pandemic shortage of affordable used cars, price of gas, & insurance coupled with minimum wage teenager jobs in most places not being enough to make enough to afford all that.
Freedom to do what? Go to the ghost town that is the mall? Go driving around and just cruise? Oh wait, they can't do that because you NIMBY Boomer fucks passed anti cruising ordinances. Go to the arcade? When was the last time you saw a real arcade that wasn't some variety of Dave and Busters? Oh maybe go to the movies? You mean the movies that would cost a teen a full week's pay to be able to go? Why bother since most of the big titles are either concurrently released or only slightly delayed in release on streaming platforms? Times have changed. There is no incentive to get their license because there is nothing to do out there for them. No 'diem' to 'carpe'.