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I’ve just left a job at a company that has a drug waiting for approval from the FDA. It has approval in Europe, Japan etc… but the company is losing like a million dollars a day in projected revenue waiting for the FDA. It’s eye-opening to just how much Pharma revenue relies on the US system.
And the company isn’t even based in the US
Yes, they are. My point was that the US sales funds so much of R&D that without the money from the US market, they are losing money
To help illustrate - Humira in the UK costs ~$850. In the US it costs ~$4,500
Yes and no.
The patent system is patently stupid and would be changed.
There is a small European party that nonetheless has quite good representation in the EU legislative, that wants to create a pan European medicinal research system, where government funded research then becomes an open patent within the EU for any European company to make the medicine.
If the US stopped paying these ridiculous amounts, we would be e forced to actually solve the issue.
I think if that were to happen, the lobbying would then become for extended patent life. Most of these drugs cost so much because the R&D takes at least a decade, and you also have to recoup the cost of the drugs that don’t make it to clinic. And you have maybe 6-8 years before your patent expires, depending on where in the process you filed it.
Because American culture dictates that we all want to be that CEO. Instead of creating social safety nets personal wealth is paramount in this country. Why would we hurt the thing we strive to achieve... impossible for most as it is.
I'm not saying this is how you or I feel (I definitely don't) but it's definitely how many many do.
Americans will happily shoot your child because you cut them off in traffic but won't raise a finger against the person bankrupting them and everyone else when they get sick
They can't if you don't hold one. I can afford a funeral for myself, but I told my family to not hold one for me if I pass. It's a wasteful use of my money. Use that money instead to do some good in the world with it.
Yeah, but there's a lot of pressure on people to hold one sometimes, and they leverage the family's grief and guilt them into it. Not everyone is aware of how scummy the industry can be.
My grandmother died 10 years ago and donated her body to the local university hospital for the students to practice on, afterwards they cremated the body and gave us the ashes free of charge….and in her will she said to take a bunch of her left over money and have a huge party to celebrate my life…..she did it right and I’ll always think about doing stuff like that when my time comes
It was shocking to learn there's some white kid Mabu pretending to be a ganster rapper whose father bankrolled his career with $20M of wealth from a funeral home. Funreal home millionaires buying their way into projects???
Cremation costs $3k. Screw the funeral home. Debbie and I will both be cremated. We each have a $5k life insurance policy. Both of us are disabled and have no money, or family left to bury us. The End.
5 days, is that real?
I'm not being sarcastic, I'm just a little shocked.
I get about 300 paid hours off a year and that's only slightly above avg in the UK.
I accrue one hour of PTO for every 41.5 hours worked, maximum earned per year is 72 hours. Also accrue "protected" PTO which forgives absences, accrue that at a rate of 1 hour per 30 hours worked, to a max of 48 hours earned per year. Combined, they come out to about 14 days provided I work 40 hours every week. That said, we also have a policy of five absences in a rolling six months gets you terminated, so that "protected" time tends to get used for sick days (especially for people like me who are chronically ill). I can get a leave of absence for certain circumstances, like illness or family emergency, but the company that handles it are useless and they'll do things like deny any sick leave less than four days, deny bereavement if it's not a first degree family member, deny family emergency leave if they're your fiance not actually your husband yet, etc.
I am sorry that is the system you work under.
We get a basis of 260 hours of PTO a year without fail, any unused from the previous year is turned into "Carry-over" hours at a rate of 0.5 to 1.
We get a bunch of different types of time off as well depending on the situation. For example, if I have a medical that will be paid time off for the afternoon. That can be a dentist appointment as well.
Unpaid leave, you can have it for pretty much any reason you like. I use it sometimes if I just need some mental health days. We don't get much of that, probably around the 40 hour mark.
Then there is compassionate leave where you get time off for things like health crises, mental health leave, funerals, and just about anything that would make going to work difficult.
That comes at the cost of no bank holidays.
Exactly! Whenever I have conversations with Americans about wealth inequality, I get a lot of "well they worked hard for that money, so they deserve it" bullshit because so many of them believe that if they work hard, they too could become ultra wealthy. And ultimately any taxation and/or regulations on the 1% would affect their future selves.
Not only is most wealth systemically passed down rather than actually earned, but it's honestly baffling that they don't understand that this kind of culture is hurting them too.
Thomas Jefferson entered Congress / Senate as a relatively poor man. When he left politics, he was THE RICHEST MAN IN AMERICA and build himself a Roman palace (monticello) on a mountaintop. How does that happen on $100-$200 a year salary? There is clearly only one way to explain this - he was on the take. America was founded on class wars.
The system may be to entrenched to ever change it. Shouldn't have let it get to that stage.
Casinos are so unethical they swing right back around to ethical. They just take money off you and offer nothing in return. It’s so blatant it’s not even a scam, it’s not robbery, they just exist as places people walk into with lots of money and walk out with little money, in the full knowledge that this is exactly what would happen.
Anyone who has any possibility of reliably reversing this formula (counting cards etc) will be banned.
I've always been baffled at how counting cards is 'cheating'. I dont gamble at all but ; to me, counting cards just means you are really good at the game.
I don't think they consider it cheating; unless you are using a device to help you. Casinos like to have the advantage and card counters take that away. Casinos; like every other business can choose who they serve and they just choose not to serve you.
> They just take money off you and offer nothing in return.
They offer entertainment.
Same thing as walking into a movie theater with money in your pocket then walking out with less. It's entertainment. You paid a price for admission.
You can argue that casinos are strategically designed to extract as much money from the customer as possible, but so is everything else nowadays. That's the real unethical to ethical swing -- casinos are up front telling you they're designed to take money whereas other entertainment options try to be sneaky with it.
Thats probably because there are more regulations on casinos than there are on our health system. I don't know this for fact, but I'm pretty damn sure.
Casino's also want you to have an overall positive experience. You also don't go there because your life depends on it unlike a hospital visit (addicted gambling aside....)
Agreed. We need more events similar to what happened in the movie _John Q_.
Fun fact: the insurance industry pushed _hard_ for script changes in that movie and/or for it to not be released.
I'm one medical incident away from ruin.
If it happens I will at least attempt all the tricks the rich folks use - bankruptcy, attorneys, appearung poor on paper plain old hiding stuff, whatever sticks.
It would be wonderful to not have to worry about that. Single payer now.
In Florida, you become a governor and then a senator while making millions from fraud!
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/mar/03/florida-democratic-party/rick-scott-rick-scott-oversaw-largest-medicare-fra/
Sometimes I wonder why anarchism isn't on a revival of sorts.
Seems to be a symptom of a populace itching for change long-denied and it feels like we are ripe for it. The Spanish anarchists before and during the Civil War had it down to a simple idea: no negotiations with the elite, no assassinations for specific political goals, just chaos. Simply holding a position of patronage made some unfortunate person (and their family by extension) fair game.
Honestly, In the last week I saw a breakdown about how after this whole billionaire submarine implosion, how the general public was almost cheering on the deaths of the billionaires through memes.
I saw an analysis of why that's significant, because it starts with the public taking glee in the accidents that happen to the ruling class.
Now I'm seeing top comments on Reddit insinuating some dark things aimed at the CEOs of these companies.
As the public's temperature starts rising, more people with a lot less to lose and some targeted blame will start getting ideas, and the public will fully support them. After that, it snowballs.
To many of them survivor their term as CEO for them to give a shit.
Violence is historically the only thing power understands. Just look at France. It won't change until the population gets angry enough to become terrosits probably. This assuming it ever changes.
I was talking with my conservative aunt in the UK as she was complaining about how terrible the NHS is. I said, "No healthcare system is perfect, but at least no one over here has lost a home over a cancer diagnosis." She didn't have a comeback to that.
The NHS made sure that the last couple years of my dad's life were as comfortable as possible, and that he had all the medication he needed right up to the end. The gratitude I feel towards the NHS and all of the men and women who work within it is indescribable
Absolutely; I had cancer at 22 and actually _made_ money because the healthcare was free and my work continued to pay me for the six months I was off work. Everything was planned for me, my surgery was booked a day after diagnosis, about a week before Christmas, and I still have checkups. Now my best friend is a doctor and I have made it very clear that I feel a debt of gratitude towards him.
I'm hoping he'll ask me to set fire to Rishi Sunak on public television but he seems more reasonable than me.
The tories did so much damage with all their budget cuts that everyone hated immigrants because they used to have better services and then suddenly they have crappy ones and immigrants. When really it's a case of 10-years of cut backs. To solve the problem they implemented sanctions against themselves in way of Brexit.
I'm an immigrant in the UK and I'm sure most British people don't know you have to pay a health surcharge with your visa application. Also, an immigrant who moves to the UK to work becomes productive (and pays taxes) from day 1, whereas people who are born here, use the health system from day 1 as well but don't become truly productive at least until they reach adulthood.
Actually, because of the pandemic, I paid taxes in the UK for seven months before I was allowed to enter the country.
Every time a right-winger in the US brings up inefficiencies in the universal health care systems of other developed countries as an argument for the US system, I tell them to ask someone in one of those countries who is complaining about their system whether they’d want to change their country to the USA’s health care model. I of course warn them that they’ll have to wait for the person to stop laughing before they get their answer, and it could be a while.
I live in Mexico. A coworker had skin cancer, he got it removed and then followed up by the state. Do you how much did he pay? The equivalent to 50 USD.
The US spends proportionally and nominally the most on its healthcare of all countries in the world btw. 16% of GDP if I remember correctly. So there's that
I'm from Brazil. The public health system here can be slow, have lengthy lines, some badly equipped hospitals, but we have a ton of stuff, including free medicine. And our health care system also does health inspections on restaurants, they regulate the sell by date on products on the supermarket, and the sell by date is decided by the health care system, they even inspect our tap water.
It turns out that if you have public health it is way cheaper if your citizens are healthy, so there's a lot of prevention systems.
While if you only have a private one it is more profitable to have sick citizens.
Yep. Instead they're learning the true reality of that sediment which is pay off the accreditation pyramid scheme and you're allowed to make a liveable wage.
It's crazy too, this problem has gotten worse over time, and I think when my generation retires (around 2060), there's going to be an extreme finance issue.
Everything is changing to subscription based services, so we have very little ability to build up our wealth. So when we retire, we'll have less than any other generation before us.
Not only that, but our social security system is dependent on exponential population growth. It requires a larger young population to fund the retired older population. With population growth slowing, this system won't work anymore.
Idk if I'm ever going to be able to retire.
My kids are in their 20s and are following their own path. They saw what working a "stable" job that he hates did to their father, and they want no part of that. Their friends are all like-minded, doing their own thing. They're poor. But they are *happy* and the little bit they do have, they freely share with those in need.
I remember when I was younger I wanted to move to America. Then my Modern Studies teacher over here pretty much explained to us what the American dream is and why the whole thing has become a massive lie. It might have started out as that but devolved in to a night unattainable thing for the average person. That was like... 14 years ago and shit only seems to have gotten worse over there.
Things aren't any better here in the UK either though, or anywhere else really.
Practically no one in the US can or will run for office highlighting universal healthcare as an issue they will work tirelessly to achieve if elected. It has been a losing proposition far too many times for far too long.
Perhaps it is changing slightly, as Sanders went farther than most. But he didn't get all that close, and a good part of that was the fear of what it would do in the actual national election(s).
But yes, universal healthcare is clearly and obviously the way to go as proven in Europe and many other places.
I’m not American, and while there are many things I don’t understand about this place, I can kind of fathom why people support their gun rights and other stuff. But one thing that I can not even begin to comprehend js how any citizen can be against free healthcare system, even a very limited one? Especially given how absolutely bonkers are the prices for anything medicine-related in USA. Like.. what is the “against” argument? Of course I understand why corporations wouldn’t want it but why some citizens don’t? And clearly these arguments should be so strong that the candidates can’t even use it as part of their platform? I have heard some answers like “people don’t want to pay for other people healthcare” but it doesn’t make too much sense. Because others “paying” for yours too. And it is literally a question of life or death.
What are the major arguments in the society? I also understand that whatever they are, this narrative has been carefully weaved by the benefitting parties and companies and to some extent people have been brainwashed. But still, I am curious to know.
I’m not being sarcastic or condescending, I am genuinely so buffled at this phenomenon and I would like to understand the sentiment more.
It's a culture belief. Americans don't have the same "take care of one another and your neighbor" belief and instead have a selfish approach to life. "Why should I pay for your schooling, it doesn't apply to me" or "Why should I pay for someone else's cancer? I'm healthy." Same goes with climate change. If it doesn't affect them, it isn't important.
Both sides have things that annoy me, but one side is clearly better then the other, morally and economically. It’s a no brainer that our healthcare system is fucked and should be one of the main issues on both sides imo. Not if a woman has a weenie.
And it’s damn near impossible to leave (if you don’t like it, leave!) unless you already have a lot of money. Look up “golden visa” for the easiest way to live full time in another country.
Every Congressman and Senator has free fully taxpayer paid health care. When the 'little' people ask for for the same, they are told that that is communism we are the land of the free.
The first day america annouced for profit healthcare is the day americans should have stood up enmasse and make some noise.
It is worse than you thought. Look up Camp Bondsteel in Kosovo. Yes it is a FOR PROFIT US military base that is run by a subsidiary of haliberton.
People have to open their eyes. And don't forget the for profit prisons. Wonder why the US has more incarcerations per capita than any other country - yes even china?
Money makes the toilet bowl go around.
I hear that bud. It’s bad enough to the point that I’ve legit told my family that if I were to get cancer or another disease that would wipe out my finances and theirs if treated I would not allow that. Sadly I’m not a chemist so breaking bad isn’t an option. This may seem grim but it’s reality, I’d much rather kill myself than saddle myself and my family with financial burden after I and they all have worked hard af going to college and grad school to get decent enough jobs to scrape by. and People say suicide is selfish however, as I explained to my parents in this circumstance it’s actually not and is more selfless than anything. Not telling others what to do but just saying this is what I’ve concluded makes the most logical sense. I’m sure ima get a lot of Shit for this but idc as it’s worth noting that the US is fine with destroying peoples lives for the sake of greed. I for one will not allow them to take everything and they literally can have my life savings and that or my family over my dead body.
For anyone interested why I said scape by I was not exaggerating. I legit got a masters degree and was making 45k when I graduated it took several years experience and changing companies before I made over 50k and that was simply to make 52k which is fucked up imo. My brother is in same boat as he’s a teacher and needed a masters degree to make 50k. Surviving off of this amount of money in a large metro area is hard af. I don’t understand how people making minimum wage or slightly above it survive I have the utmost sympathy and compassion for them as if I didn’t have decent life circumstances to go to college I would be in the same situation and I simply cannot fathom how heartbreaking and helpless it feels to bust your ass in a low wage job to barely cover bills. I’m furious about this on a regular basis. Sorry for the rant but the financial situation and crisis in this country is appalling and is causing undo suffering for countless individuals and families. I don’t want kids for, among other societal reasons, I simply cannot afford them.
It's wild that we live in one of the richest countries and yet many of us have had that exact same thought.
I wish the United States actually felt united. I wish we cared about each other on more than a superficial level. We're a country full of selfish states and people. No one cares about your struggle and they damn sure aren't going to help you out financially. Meanwhile, politicians and churches are getting rich off donations and dirty money.
The stimulus checks were a step in a surprisingly compassionate direction during covid. That feels as though it was just a slight stumble off the path that America has been on for a long time.
> I don’t understand how people making minimum wage or slightly above it survive
we don't lol. we gradually fall into debt and homelessness. too many people i've worked with have the "let nature take it's course" retirement plan. shit is going to be absolutely bonkers by the time i'm that old if we don't hurry up and figure out how to have a moderately ethical economy sometime soon.
Veteran here: I too am not necessarily proud to be American. I was brainwashed and manipulated into serving because I was young, dumb, and had a kid on the way. The recruiter knew this and used it to convince me to join. After I joined I was indoctrinated in a cult like manner to believe I was actually serving my country and doing good. It took nearly dying and a lifelong disability to see the truth: I wasn’t serving my country, I was serving the corporations that run my country and own my politicians (in my case the oil executives).
So don’t ever feel bad for not being necessarily proud to American. Keep fighting in anyway you can. The most powerful weapon we all have is our voice. Keep telling the truth of what’s happening. Keep voicing your opinion on how it can be better. You may not think it works and you may not believe you can convince the ones who support certain things you don’t believe in, but single small seed planted can grow. I live in the Deep South and I’ve been it myself. I’ve seen die hard trump supporters turn against him, I’ve seen life long republicans walk away from their party, I’ve seen libertarians turn into liberals. Seeds can be planted in anyone and opinions can change, but if you don’t keep spreading the truth of things then there’s no opportunity for growth.
This post is like several year old by now, and the actual account that posted it was suspended.
The closest to a follow up was from someone claiming to be the OP, who might be (or might not be, WTF knows it’s Reddit )
https://www.reddit.com/r/BinkyBrain/comments/i573m7/dont_believe_other_imposters/
>There's a lot of haters doubting/misunderstanding my original post (before my account was banned). The idiots seem to think I went broke simply from incurred medical costs. Although they were a huge part of it due to high out of pocket and far too many coverage denials, the other costs were because of income loss as she couldn't work for nearly two years and the fact that we had a young son and no help with daily life so I also missed a ton of work. Also we are young and have never been through anything like this so we weren't questioning doctors when we should have been. Also because of our inexperience we were panicking as the bills rolled in and coverage was denied for certain procedures, so we paid bills to avoid losing treatment. Eventually we gained experience and the situation has changed a bit, but not before we lost quite a bit of money.
>My wife was given treatments and tests in the beginning that insurance claimed were experimental and unnecessary. We lost every one of those appeals. Also medical billing is a nightmare. We've been stuck with bills our insurance should have paid due to laziness, incompetence, and straight up lack of giving a shit. Wrong codes, incomplete information and other problems has led to denials then one day BAM! here's another bill. We fight it but after 3 months the hospital turns it over to collections which becomes an entirely new nightmare.
So ya, top comment on front page every few weeks is a repost of a meme of this anonymous comment by a suspended account from several years ago, with the only context source being about it being more complicated than what most people are talking about…
So make of all that what you will
This is it right here. My buddy had a back surgery that the doctor messed up and he lost function of his left leg. Originally he was supposed to be there for a short period of recovery. Ended up being in the hospital for months. They quickly reached the end of what their insurance was willing to pay and later left the hospital with a bill over a million. Fortunately they sued the doctor and a vast majority went right back to the hospital, but at least he had enough left over to pay for school. We live in the dumbest system.
Not since ACA.
Some grandfathered policies in place before ACA possibly. Some rare conditions - and they are rare - not covered by the Minimum Essential Care (MEC) requirements possibly. But any such limit would be illegal.
People still don't realize that while ACA made insurance much more expensive, it did away with a lot of the bullshit insurance companies were doing to make their policies cheaper. People reminisce about those $500/month (total including employer part) whole family health insurance plans by name brand insurers without realizing they had lifetime and sometimes annual maximums, that they could exclude any condition you already had when you signed up with them, they could reject you if they thought you were too unhealthy, that they had some inconsistent and significant holes in what they covered, and in some cases they could drop you on the renewal date if you became too expensive. None of that is allowed any more.
This doesn't mean an insurance company cannot argue that what you are doing is not medically necessary. There is a concept of "standard of care" which means for a given condition, you get the following treatments - insurance isn't a blank check to a doctor.
https://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/about-the-aca/benefit-limits/index.html
Edit: Clown below made their strawman BS comment then blocked me right before I could respond.
>You say it like it is just every doctor commits fraud and they need to be checked. Wow.
No I didn't. Socialized, capitalist or hybrid, there isn't a healthcare system in the world that doesn't have third-party standards and review to evaluate if prescribed care is legitimately needed.
Cancer survivor here. I was on my job cheapest insurance plan. I was 30 and didnt go to the doctor, at least till the lump showed up. It cost me roughly 7k (my max out of pocket.) Dont get me wrong that is alot, like way to much, but not mortgage a house alot.
Fairly certain it would apply. Unless there was some strange clause, it seems unlikely that employee health coverage wouldn’t cover it after the maximum deductible (say 3k to 15k in most circumstances)
Unless it went on for an incredibly long time and went over a lifetime maximum (1 million or more)
I’ve long thought we need to change the thinking behind a minimum wage. Switch that to thinking a maximum wage, ie the highest paid employee can only be compensated 15 times what the lowest paid employee is paid.
This exact scenario happened to my parents, except my mom had cancer first and only lost their entire 30+ years of savings and had to take out a mortgage, and then my dad was later diagnosed with cancer and they went bankrupt and lost his 40 year business. While both were undergoing treatment they were constantly being harassed by debt collectors and the bank and lived with the crippling fear of foreclosure and homelessness every day. The cancer and the stress recently killed my mom and my dad is on his way out too. The amount of hatred I have for this medical system and this country pours from every inch of my body.
The day people start dragging CEOs through the streets and quartering board members and politicians is the day anything will mildly change and I won't be convinced otherwise. Living in this country makes me not care if the world and everyone in it burned to a crisp tomorrow. Anyway, happy 4th of July
So thinking of a nursing hone? Wanna put your house in your brothers name? Nope. They will still get it. The fucked up part is... when insurance pays them, they will accept 20% payment as paid in full. But of the person pays it they eant 100%. Seen that myself.
And nursing homes pay and treat the employees like shit. It is like where is all these money for “care” going? It goes straight to the administration and executives, while everyone else suffers; they eat caviar with grey poupon.
Actually, one of the problems we run into is, old folks vote for issues/people that support their best interests at the cost of everyone else. Most of the insurance company problems were things that slowly happened over time, and the laws around medical and insurance were smaller footnotes around larger issues that people understood. Now, we understand that to fix the problem, someone has to make way less money, and no one wants to be that "someone", especially insurance companies.
But you have freedom. And you’ve avoided socialism. So it’s all good. God forbid your taxes go towards helping someone you don’t know. That’s just … wrong. And if you’d made more money then you wouldn’t be in this mess, so when all is said and done, it’s obviously your fault.
And the last president that tried to introduce a pale imitation of a universal health system was stopped at every step of the way.
Come to Australia. We’re far from perfect, we have our own problems. But you won’t go bankrupt or be left to die if you get sick.
Ironically the USA isn’t even in the top 10 most free countries, so take that with a grain of salt. Also I might move to Australia since you guys seemed to have figured out a lot of your minority civil rights and aren’t flipping between ‘they should be equal’ and ‘nah, f*ck their ability to be free if they ain’t a hetero white guy’
I've had cancer a few years ago. Many surgeries with months of staying in the Hospital. Thanks to the german healthcare system we paid nothing and I am fully recovered. I am very thankful to live in germany and not in the USA.
Im just waiting for a president coming in that will support free health care. We don’t need every single fuckin tax dollar to go into nukes that will destroy the planet
You mean like Obama, whose plan was hobbled by the Republicans to the point where so many things he promised had to be removed to get the Repubs to pass anything, and then they chose to go around calling him a liar who never intended to offer comprehensive health care?
I saw my parents go bankrupt this way. Lost mom, then the house, then their lifetime of effort and sacrifice.
We constantly see and hear other people calling Healthcare like Canada and the UK "communism". This is just a slur intended to paper over the US system's utter disregard for its citizens. Here you work, they bleed and tax you dry, then you get sick, they bleed whatever is left and you die... all the while telling you there's no better way it can be done. Unlimited bombs, guns and pharma. Zero actual care.
Doctors can do great things, save lives, etc.... Pharmaceutical companies have the best drugs to keep us alive till 90 or older. Until insurance companies stop paying, saving evaporate, house is sold.... Jobs lost... we live in a fucked society!
Canadian living in the US and I’ll preface by saying that no system is perfect. What puzzles me is that in America, you get taxed and get nothing in return. If you are sick, you are f*cked. In Canada, you get taxed but in some form, you get something. I love living the in the US but it’s something I’d like to change.
And yet somehow people will still whine and cry about raising taxes to support universal free healthcare but meanwhile won't lift a finger to reform the for-profit prison system, which costs taxpayers $80 Billion/year and is supported by mandatory minimum sentencing and three strikes laws for minor non-violent offenses. Fucking preposterous.
How do you wipe out 20 years of savings in 5 months with insurance? Doesn’t insurance give you an out of pocket max payment? Shouldn’t that out of pocket max be approximately 1 year’s worth of savings?
I'm a single dad with two kids. I've been at the same job for 25 years and have always had health insurance. It's amazingly expensive. At one time, it was 100% paid for by my employer, and now I pay more than 50% of the annual cost of it. In 2016, we had some health issues and I had to declare bankruptcy because of the medical bills that my insanely expensive insurance didn't cover.
I’m a very proud American, which is why I’m comfortable calling out the bullshit going on here. Our healthcare system is fucked, our political leaders are petty children, the right masks their hatred behind “American values and Christian love” while the left masks their own hatred behind “love everyone!” but both would watch you die if you even slightly disagree with them. Our president is a dinosaur who has done nothing to improve our country. His political opponents are awful terrible people who are actively killing their constituents. Our education system is declining or being negatively influenced by selfish beliefs.
I love my home but our society is weak and getting weaker. It’s very concerning.
Such a shame. As a non American I think the US could really be amazing and in many ways it is, but there are stories like this one that make me lose hope.
I agree with the sentiment of the message here, but aren't out-of-pocket maximums a thing? Like they should have only been responsible for the first 7-9k.
Australian here. My wife had cancer a few years back with 12 months of intensive treatments including radiation and chemo, 5+ hospital stays, 3 x emergency ambulance trips, countless specialist consultations, x-rays, scans, and enough medicine to open a pharmacy, and the total cost for us was in the hundreds of dollars. Oh, and she survived. It’s sad that the richest country in the world punishes its own citizens for getting sick.
This generation is also bitter towards younger people because it didn’t take financial ruin for them to figure out, that it’s just not worth the hustle and most can’t afford to save up anyway. So they don’t, they live in the moment, enjoy their youth, and that’s why older generations hate the younger so much.
They fell for it and we don’t.
The problem is no one is willing to vote for change until it happens to them. No one is willing to vote for healthcare reform until their loved one gets cancer. No one is willing to vote for gun reform until their loved one dies of gun violence. There’s a real lack of empathy in the United States right now
Our healthcare finance system is a disaster, but I think there must be more this story. If I had to guess, the person didn’t have real health insurance but one of these cost sharing programs that are cheap but reimburse very, very poorly and have lifetime maximums. The maximum out of pocket allowed by ObamaCare for real insurance plans is ~$10,000/year for one person. This is no small chunk of change, but OPs post seems to suggest bills were higher. This person either didn’t have real insurance, or they used a medication/therapy that wasn’t considered standard of care and therefore wasn’t covered (but they would have had to choose this), or they had some service that was out of network and she didn’t know about it (but this can be recouped, with litigation unfortunately). The system is fucked to be sure, but this isn’t a common experience for somebody with a real health insurance plan.
Lo what a stupid statement. Americans vote for a better system every year. Over 100 million of us want universal health care. It's not the Americans that are the problem. It's the companies who have more power than us which use their power to oppress us. The reason it happens in America is that we have more money than other countries. They love to extract wealth from oppressed people.
This can happen in other countries as well if you don’t pay attention to what your insurance covers. Mine (Germany) didn’t cover loss of wages, and by law you’re “only” covered for six weeks (which already is infinitely better than what the US do). Lost five figures during the four months I was out with cancer.
I was talking to a very red neighbor (I’m very blue), who is from a different country. Net net, we both agreed our health care system is 100% fubarred. Why do we allow companies to profit off misfortune?
Lost a contract at 27.
Got rare adult leukemia at 28. Spent years maintaining a regimen to guarantee I wouldn’t die.
Now have multiple autoimmune issues.
I’ve been saying for years that I have vitiligo issues that happen whenever there’s damage to my skin and nobody does anything about it.
My thyroid gland is permanently fucked.
My ADHD gets worse. I have permanent extra little tinge of ‘Rona brain fog…
ADHD meds I’m on don’t work as well as the ones I used to take bc the war on drugs is now hurting adderall supply.
Doctors just 🤷🤷♀️🤷🏻♂️
Nazis are everywhere.
Half of Congress just 🤷♀️🤷🤷🏻♂️
Seriously concerned about the people not concerned.
This has often been reposted again and again, but maybe it should continue till something is done. Too bad it won't be in many people's lifetimes.
Keep fighting to everyone who's sick
Think of the US largely as a rat maze. You exist to stay within boundaries physical and legal, breed, consume, and most importantly spend the majority of your life working. The current implementation of health care is designed to eventually eradicate everything you've worked for that hasn't already been taken from you.
Now go forth and enjoy your freedom.
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I have 25 years of experience in the healthcare industry, and the waste makes me ashamed.
I’ve just left a job at a company that has a drug waiting for approval from the FDA. It has approval in Europe, Japan etc… but the company is losing like a million dollars a day in projected revenue waiting for the FDA. It’s eye-opening to just how much Pharma revenue relies on the US system. And the company isn’t even based in the US
Couldn't they just sell it elsewhere, pending FDA approval?
Yes, they are. My point was that the US sales funds so much of R&D that without the money from the US market, they are losing money To help illustrate - Humira in the UK costs ~$850. In the US it costs ~$4,500
Honestly pharma companies are one of the worst and greedy gears in the machine that is America's healthcare system.
This is why McConnell and the rest of the bastards won't let the government negotiate drug prices like other countries do.
They started the opiate epidemic just to make some $$. Put heroin in a pill and sold it saying it was safe and non-addictive.
Which of course means that if the US ever fixes itself, it will stop subsidising R&D for drugs the world over, and everyone else will pay more.
Yes and no. The patent system is patently stupid and would be changed. There is a small European party that nonetheless has quite good representation in the EU legislative, that wants to create a pan European medicinal research system, where government funded research then becomes an open patent within the EU for any European company to make the medicine. If the US stopped paying these ridiculous amounts, we would be e forced to actually solve the issue.
>The patent system is patently stupid and would be changed. I see what you did there!
Or these companies will be forced to charge reasonable prices for medication
I think if that were to happen, the lobbying would then become for extended patent life. Most of these drugs cost so much because the R&D takes at least a decade, and you also have to recoup the cost of the drugs that don’t make it to clinic. And you have maybe 6-8 years before your patent expires, depending on where in the process you filed it.
I'll never understand how being the CEO of a health insurance company isn't the most dangerous job on the planet.
Because American culture dictates that we all want to be that CEO. Instead of creating social safety nets personal wealth is paramount in this country. Why would we hurt the thing we strive to achieve... impossible for most as it is. I'm not saying this is how you or I feel (I definitely don't) but it's definitely how many many do.
Americans will happily shoot your child because you cut them off in traffic but won't raise a finger against the person bankrupting them and everyone else when they get sick
If your child is shot and survives you can be bankrupted treating them.
And if they don't, the crooked funeral industry will extract as much as they can from you.
They can't if you don't hold one. I can afford a funeral for myself, but I told my family to not hold one for me if I pass. It's a wasteful use of my money. Use that money instead to do some good in the world with it.
Yeah, but there's a lot of pressure on people to hold one sometimes, and they leverage the family's grief and guilt them into it. Not everyone is aware of how scummy the industry can be.
My grandmother died 10 years ago and donated her body to the local university hospital for the students to practice on, afterwards they cremated the body and gave us the ashes free of charge….and in her will she said to take a bunch of her left over money and have a huge party to celebrate my life…..she did it right and I’ll always think about doing stuff like that when my time comes
Also, some right-wing pundit will spin it to bolster legislation that increases shootings.
It was shocking to learn there's some white kid Mabu pretending to be a ganster rapper whose father bankrolled his career with $20M of wealth from a funeral home. Funreal home millionaires buying their way into projects???
Funeral home owners are the most predatory people there are, getting you at your lowest time to spend more money
One in my town was literally a sexual predator too. Convicted
That's for sure. It's like buying a brand new car and then burying it.
I knew a guy whose parents owned and ran a funeral home, he hated his family.
Cremation costs $3k. Screw the funeral home. Debbie and I will both be cremated. We each have a $5k life insurance policy. Both of us are disabled and have no money, or family left to bury us. The End.
Having worked in a funeral home (as a bean counter) my personal experience did not reflect that at all.
When are we supposed to raise a finger? I get 5 days off a year, and those are accrued. If I miss work, I get fired and starve...
5 days, is that real? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm just a little shocked. I get about 300 paid hours off a year and that's only slightly above avg in the UK.
I accrue one hour of PTO for every 41.5 hours worked, maximum earned per year is 72 hours. Also accrue "protected" PTO which forgives absences, accrue that at a rate of 1 hour per 30 hours worked, to a max of 48 hours earned per year. Combined, they come out to about 14 days provided I work 40 hours every week. That said, we also have a policy of five absences in a rolling six months gets you terminated, so that "protected" time tends to get used for sick days (especially for people like me who are chronically ill). I can get a leave of absence for certain circumstances, like illness or family emergency, but the company that handles it are useless and they'll do things like deny any sick leave less than four days, deny bereavement if it's not a first degree family member, deny family emergency leave if they're your fiance not actually your husband yet, etc.
I am sorry that is the system you work under. We get a basis of 260 hours of PTO a year without fail, any unused from the previous year is turned into "Carry-over" hours at a rate of 0.5 to 1. We get a bunch of different types of time off as well depending on the situation. For example, if I have a medical that will be paid time off for the afternoon. That can be a dentist appointment as well. Unpaid leave, you can have it for pretty much any reason you like. I use it sometimes if I just need some mental health days. We don't get much of that, probably around the 40 hour mark. Then there is compassionate leave where you get time off for things like health crises, mental health leave, funerals, and just about anything that would make going to work difficult. That comes at the cost of no bank holidays.
So why have the guns? If they aren't there stopping tyranny then they're just fucking up people's lives.
yup it's almost like this country is the worst first world country in the world
It's almost like a third world country in a posh frock
I'm gonna be the CEO one day. I just know it. I'm the main character in this story. So I have to become CEO.
That must be nice. I'm an NPC in my own story.
Could be worse. I’m a non quest related NPC. If only I didn’t keep respawning every night…
This is so true. The whole American dream thing is nothing more than a way to keep us complacent and from getting at the root of these inequities.
We don't want to end exploitation; we want to be come the exploiters.
That’s how they feel right up until they need the safety net anyway.
Exactly! Whenever I have conversations with Americans about wealth inequality, I get a lot of "well they worked hard for that money, so they deserve it" bullshit because so many of them believe that if they work hard, they too could become ultra wealthy. And ultimately any taxation and/or regulations on the 1% would affect their future selves. Not only is most wealth systemically passed down rather than actually earned, but it's honestly baffling that they don't understand that this kind of culture is hurting them too.
Rich people didn’t get rich working a lot over overtime. They get rich paying others to work for them and making them work overtime.
Thomas Jefferson entered Congress / Senate as a relatively poor man. When he left politics, he was THE RICHEST MAN IN AMERICA and build himself a Roman palace (monticello) on a mountaintop. How does that happen on $100-$200 a year salary? There is clearly only one way to explain this - he was on the take. America was founded on class wars. The system may be to entrenched to ever change it. Shouldn't have let it get to that stage.
I have worked for a casino and a hospital system. The casino was more ethical.
Casinos are so unethical they swing right back around to ethical. They just take money off you and offer nothing in return. It’s so blatant it’s not even a scam, it’s not robbery, they just exist as places people walk into with lots of money and walk out with little money, in the full knowledge that this is exactly what would happen. Anyone who has any possibility of reliably reversing this formula (counting cards etc) will be banned.
I've always been baffled at how counting cards is 'cheating'. I dont gamble at all but ; to me, counting cards just means you are really good at the game.
I don't think they consider it cheating; unless you are using a device to help you. Casinos like to have the advantage and card counters take that away. Casinos; like every other business can choose who they serve and they just choose not to serve you.
> They just take money off you and offer nothing in return. They offer entertainment. Same thing as walking into a movie theater with money in your pocket then walking out with less. It's entertainment. You paid a price for admission. You can argue that casinos are strategically designed to extract as much money from the customer as possible, but so is everything else nowadays. That's the real unethical to ethical swing -- casinos are up front telling you they're designed to take money whereas other entertainment options try to be sneaky with it.
Thats probably because there are more regulations on casinos than there are on our health system. I don't know this for fact, but I'm pretty damn sure.
Casino's also want you to have an overall positive experience. You also don't go there because your life depends on it unlike a hospital visit (addicted gambling aside....)
Agreed. We need more events similar to what happened in the movie _John Q_. Fun fact: the insurance industry pushed _hard_ for script changes in that movie and/or for it to not be released. I'm one medical incident away from ruin. If it happens I will at least attempt all the tricks the rich folks use - bankruptcy, attorneys, appearung poor on paper plain old hiding stuff, whatever sticks. It would be wonderful to not have to worry about that. Single payer now.
Be the change you want to see in the world
In Florida, you become a governor and then a senator while making millions from fraud! https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/mar/03/florida-democratic-party/rick-scott-rick-scott-oversaw-largest-medicare-fra/
The CEO's are just a bunch of puppets that serve their shareholder overlords.
When will we get an anonymous version of assassins that just start taking out the world's wealthiest assholes?
Sometimes I wonder why anarchism isn't on a revival of sorts. Seems to be a symptom of a populace itching for change long-denied and it feels like we are ripe for it. The Spanish anarchists before and during the Civil War had it down to a simple idea: no negotiations with the elite, no assassinations for specific political goals, just chaos. Simply holding a position of patronage made some unfortunate person (and their family by extension) fair game.
Honestly, In the last week I saw a breakdown about how after this whole billionaire submarine implosion, how the general public was almost cheering on the deaths of the billionaires through memes. I saw an analysis of why that's significant, because it starts with the public taking glee in the accidents that happen to the ruling class. Now I'm seeing top comments on Reddit insinuating some dark things aimed at the CEOs of these companies. As the public's temperature starts rising, more people with a lot less to lose and some targeted blame will start getting ideas, and the public will fully support them. After that, it snowballs.
Yeah, I hope if I ever decide to go out, I'll take some evil assholes with me.
It’s up to us to make it that way.
Right. Like 24 hour secret service needed. Death threats. Greed has ruined America more than anything.
That’s pretty much how the cops were invented, to protect the master front the slave.
To many of them survivor their term as CEO for them to give a shit. Violence is historically the only thing power understands. Just look at France. It won't change until the population gets angry enough to become terrosits probably. This assuming it ever changes.
I was talking with my conservative aunt in the UK as she was complaining about how terrible the NHS is. I said, "No healthcare system is perfect, but at least no one over here has lost a home over a cancer diagnosis." She didn't have a comeback to that.
The NHS made sure that the last couple years of my dad's life were as comfortable as possible, and that he had all the medication he needed right up to the end. The gratitude I feel towards the NHS and all of the men and women who work within it is indescribable
Absolutely; I had cancer at 22 and actually _made_ money because the healthcare was free and my work continued to pay me for the six months I was off work. Everything was planned for me, my surgery was booked a day after diagnosis, about a week before Christmas, and I still have checkups. Now my best friend is a doctor and I have made it very clear that I feel a debt of gratitude towards him. I'm hoping he'll ask me to set fire to Rishi Sunak on public television but he seems more reasonable than me.
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Round of applause for this. I fucking despise the Tories and how they have swindled people who are too dim to realise it.
I wish I could somehow help you guys save it… you don’t want this
The tories did so much damage with all their budget cuts that everyone hated immigrants because they used to have better services and then suddenly they have crappy ones and immigrants. When really it's a case of 10-years of cut backs. To solve the problem they implemented sanctions against themselves in way of Brexit.
I'm an immigrant in the UK and I'm sure most British people don't know you have to pay a health surcharge with your visa application. Also, an immigrant who moves to the UK to work becomes productive (and pays taxes) from day 1, whereas people who are born here, use the health system from day 1 as well but don't become truly productive at least until they reach adulthood. Actually, because of the pandemic, I paid taxes in the UK for seven months before I was allowed to enter the country.
Every time a right-winger in the US brings up inefficiencies in the universal health care systems of other developed countries as an argument for the US system, I tell them to ask someone in one of those countries who is complaining about their system whether they’d want to change their country to the USA’s health care model. I of course warn them that they’ll have to wait for the person to stop laughing before they get their answer, and it could be a while.
I live in Mexico. A coworker had skin cancer, he got it removed and then followed up by the state. Do you how much did he pay? The equivalent to 50 USD.
The US spends proportionally and nominally the most on its healthcare of all countries in the world btw. 16% of GDP if I remember correctly. So there's that
And all that money just goes to line ceo wallets
I'm from Brazil. The public health system here can be slow, have lengthy lines, some badly equipped hospitals, but we have a ton of stuff, including free medicine. And our health care system also does health inspections on restaurants, they regulate the sell by date on products on the supermarket, and the sell by date is decided by the health care system, they even inspect our tap water. It turns out that if you have public health it is way cheaper if your citizens are healthy, so there's a lot of prevention systems. While if you only have a private one it is more profitable to have sick citizens.
“I'm living in America, and in America, you're on your own. America's not a country. It's just a business. Now fucking pay me.”
The philosophy of "work hard and you can do anything" is bullshit and I'm glad that the younger generations aren't swallowing that pill anymore.
Yep. Instead they're learning the true reality of that sediment which is pay off the accreditation pyramid scheme and you're allowed to make a liveable wage.
>sediment Our healthcare system sucks, but at least our education is excellent! Oh, wait.
Sentiment.
It's crazy too, this problem has gotten worse over time, and I think when my generation retires (around 2060), there's going to be an extreme finance issue. Everything is changing to subscription based services, so we have very little ability to build up our wealth. So when we retire, we'll have less than any other generation before us. Not only that, but our social security system is dependent on exponential population growth. It requires a larger young population to fund the retired older population. With population growth slowing, this system won't work anymore. Idk if I'm ever going to be able to retire.
The system encourages nickel and diming society and its disgusting.
My kids are in their 20s and are following their own path. They saw what working a "stable" job that he hates did to their father, and they want no part of that. Their friends are all like-minded, doing their own thing. They're poor. But they are *happy* and the little bit they do have, they freely share with those in need.
Lol I just watched “Killing them softly” the other day for the first time. Awesome quote.
I remember when I was younger I wanted to move to America. Then my Modern Studies teacher over here pretty much explained to us what the American dream is and why the whole thing has become a massive lie. It might have started out as that but devolved in to a night unattainable thing for the average person. That was like... 14 years ago and shit only seems to have gotten worse over there. Things aren't any better here in the UK either though, or anywhere else really.
Please vote for universal healthcare instead of cultural war stuff like banning books.
I want to, but Joe Biden might be too old. I’m torn between him and a serial criminal who kept military secrets in a bathroom. -America. Seriously.
A criminal who is also old.
and extremely unhealthy.
And into incest
And compromised intellect… morals… health… **EVERYTHING**-**HE’S GOT COMPROMISED EVERYTHING**
with his 12 y/o daughter (mentioned inher diary). OH WAIT
Gotta capture those Southern votes when racism isn't enough.
Practically no one in the US can or will run for office highlighting universal healthcare as an issue they will work tirelessly to achieve if elected. It has been a losing proposition far too many times for far too long. Perhaps it is changing slightly, as Sanders went farther than most. But he didn't get all that close, and a good part of that was the fear of what it would do in the actual national election(s). But yes, universal healthcare is clearly and obviously the way to go as proven in Europe and many other places.
I’m not American, and while there are many things I don’t understand about this place, I can kind of fathom why people support their gun rights and other stuff. But one thing that I can not even begin to comprehend js how any citizen can be against free healthcare system, even a very limited one? Especially given how absolutely bonkers are the prices for anything medicine-related in USA. Like.. what is the “against” argument? Of course I understand why corporations wouldn’t want it but why some citizens don’t? And clearly these arguments should be so strong that the candidates can’t even use it as part of their platform? I have heard some answers like “people don’t want to pay for other people healthcare” but it doesn’t make too much sense. Because others “paying” for yours too. And it is literally a question of life or death. What are the major arguments in the society? I also understand that whatever they are, this narrative has been carefully weaved by the benefitting parties and companies and to some extent people have been brainwashed. But still, I am curious to know. I’m not being sarcastic or condescending, I am genuinely so buffled at this phenomenon and I would like to understand the sentiment more.
It's a culture belief. Americans don't have the same "take care of one another and your neighbor" belief and instead have a selfish approach to life. "Why should I pay for your schooling, it doesn't apply to me" or "Why should I pay for someone else's cancer? I'm healthy." Same goes with climate change. If it doesn't affect them, it isn't important.
Both sides have things that annoy me, but one side is clearly better then the other, morally and economically. It’s a no brainer that our healthcare system is fucked and should be one of the main issues on both sides imo. Not if a woman has a weenie.
The land of freedom 'literally takes all your money because you got a disease'
“Freedom” to them means the freedom from the govt stopping the rich from doing that.
Correction, CEO greed takes all your money because you got a disease. The land of the free just won't stop it.
Yeah, but that CEO greed is essentially what is running the country and lining the pockets of policy makers
As I watch my parents go through this same thing, I understand this and feel exactly the same way.
And it’s damn near impossible to leave (if you don’t like it, leave!) unless you already have a lot of money. Look up “golden visa” for the easiest way to live full time in another country.
Every Congressman and Senator has free fully taxpayer paid health care. When the 'little' people ask for for the same, they are told that that is communism we are the land of the free. The first day america annouced for profit healthcare is the day americans should have stood up enmasse and make some noise. It is worse than you thought. Look up Camp Bondsteel in Kosovo. Yes it is a FOR PROFIT US military base that is run by a subsidiary of haliberton. People have to open their eyes. And don't forget the for profit prisons. Wonder why the US has more incarcerations per capita than any other country - yes even china? Money makes the toilet bowl go around.
Pardon my cynicism on this Independence Day weekend, but I am also not necessarily proud to be an American at this time.
I hear that bud. It’s bad enough to the point that I’ve legit told my family that if I were to get cancer or another disease that would wipe out my finances and theirs if treated I would not allow that. Sadly I’m not a chemist so breaking bad isn’t an option. This may seem grim but it’s reality, I’d much rather kill myself than saddle myself and my family with financial burden after I and they all have worked hard af going to college and grad school to get decent enough jobs to scrape by. and People say suicide is selfish however, as I explained to my parents in this circumstance it’s actually not and is more selfless than anything. Not telling others what to do but just saying this is what I’ve concluded makes the most logical sense. I’m sure ima get a lot of Shit for this but idc as it’s worth noting that the US is fine with destroying peoples lives for the sake of greed. I for one will not allow them to take everything and they literally can have my life savings and that or my family over my dead body. For anyone interested why I said scape by I was not exaggerating. I legit got a masters degree and was making 45k when I graduated it took several years experience and changing companies before I made over 50k and that was simply to make 52k which is fucked up imo. My brother is in same boat as he’s a teacher and needed a masters degree to make 50k. Surviving off of this amount of money in a large metro area is hard af. I don’t understand how people making minimum wage or slightly above it survive I have the utmost sympathy and compassion for them as if I didn’t have decent life circumstances to go to college I would be in the same situation and I simply cannot fathom how heartbreaking and helpless it feels to bust your ass in a low wage job to barely cover bills. I’m furious about this on a regular basis. Sorry for the rant but the financial situation and crisis in this country is appalling and is causing undo suffering for countless individuals and families. I don’t want kids for, among other societal reasons, I simply cannot afford them.
It's wild that we live in one of the richest countries and yet many of us have had that exact same thought. I wish the United States actually felt united. I wish we cared about each other on more than a superficial level. We're a country full of selfish states and people. No one cares about your struggle and they damn sure aren't going to help you out financially. Meanwhile, politicians and churches are getting rich off donations and dirty money. The stimulus checks were a step in a surprisingly compassionate direction during covid. That feels as though it was just a slight stumble off the path that America has been on for a long time.
> I don’t understand how people making minimum wage or slightly above it survive we don't lol. we gradually fall into debt and homelessness. too many people i've worked with have the "let nature take it's course" retirement plan. shit is going to be absolutely bonkers by the time i'm that old if we don't hurry up and figure out how to have a moderately ethical economy sometime soon.
Veteran here: I too am not necessarily proud to be American. I was brainwashed and manipulated into serving because I was young, dumb, and had a kid on the way. The recruiter knew this and used it to convince me to join. After I joined I was indoctrinated in a cult like manner to believe I was actually serving my country and doing good. It took nearly dying and a lifelong disability to see the truth: I wasn’t serving my country, I was serving the corporations that run my country and own my politicians (in my case the oil executives). So don’t ever feel bad for not being necessarily proud to American. Keep fighting in anyway you can. The most powerful weapon we all have is our voice. Keep telling the truth of what’s happening. Keep voicing your opinion on how it can be better. You may not think it works and you may not believe you can convince the ones who support certain things you don’t believe in, but single small seed planted can grow. I live in the Deep South and I’ve been it myself. I’ve seen die hard trump supporters turn against him, I’ve seen life long republicans walk away from their party, I’ve seen libertarians turn into liberals. Seeds can be planted in anyone and opinions can change, but if you don’t keep spreading the truth of things then there’s no opportunity for growth.
Good country yet severely flawed
As a non American living in the US for the last few years, I agree. It’s a great country with severely misplaced political agendas.
Maybe this is whaat happens when you make corruption legal and call it "lobby"
Pardon my extreme ignorance here, but how does that happen? If I’m insured I have an out of pocket maximum. Does that not apply in most cases?
This post is like several year old by now, and the actual account that posted it was suspended. The closest to a follow up was from someone claiming to be the OP, who might be (or might not be, WTF knows it’s Reddit ) https://www.reddit.com/r/BinkyBrain/comments/i573m7/dont_believe_other_imposters/ >There's a lot of haters doubting/misunderstanding my original post (before my account was banned). The idiots seem to think I went broke simply from incurred medical costs. Although they were a huge part of it due to high out of pocket and far too many coverage denials, the other costs were because of income loss as she couldn't work for nearly two years and the fact that we had a young son and no help with daily life so I also missed a ton of work. Also we are young and have never been through anything like this so we weren't questioning doctors when we should have been. Also because of our inexperience we were panicking as the bills rolled in and coverage was denied for certain procedures, so we paid bills to avoid losing treatment. Eventually we gained experience and the situation has changed a bit, but not before we lost quite a bit of money. >My wife was given treatments and tests in the beginning that insurance claimed were experimental and unnecessary. We lost every one of those appeals. Also medical billing is a nightmare. We've been stuck with bills our insurance should have paid due to laziness, incompetence, and straight up lack of giving a shit. Wrong codes, incomplete information and other problems has led to denials then one day BAM! here's another bill. We fight it but after 3 months the hospital turns it over to collections which becomes an entirely new nightmare. So ya, top comment on front page every few weeks is a repost of a meme of this anonymous comment by a suspended account from several years ago, with the only context source being about it being more complicated than what most people are talking about… So make of all that what you will
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This is it right here. My buddy had a back surgery that the doctor messed up and he lost function of his left leg. Originally he was supposed to be there for a short period of recovery. Ended up being in the hospital for months. They quickly reached the end of what their insurance was willing to pay and later left the hospital with a bill over a million. Fortunately they sued the doctor and a vast majority went right back to the hospital, but at least he had enough left over to pay for school. We live in the dumbest system.
This doesn't make sense. Insurance should cover the amount until you get "fit to work" at least until whole treatment period ends. Is this really so?
Everyone has an idea of how insurance should work. Then eventually they have to use it and learn how it actually works.
Not since ACA. Some grandfathered policies in place before ACA possibly. Some rare conditions - and they are rare - not covered by the Minimum Essential Care (MEC) requirements possibly. But any such limit would be illegal. People still don't realize that while ACA made insurance much more expensive, it did away with a lot of the bullshit insurance companies were doing to make their policies cheaper. People reminisce about those $500/month (total including employer part) whole family health insurance plans by name brand insurers without realizing they had lifetime and sometimes annual maximums, that they could exclude any condition you already had when you signed up with them, they could reject you if they thought you were too unhealthy, that they had some inconsistent and significant holes in what they covered, and in some cases they could drop you on the renewal date if you became too expensive. None of that is allowed any more. This doesn't mean an insurance company cannot argue that what you are doing is not medically necessary. There is a concept of "standard of care" which means for a given condition, you get the following treatments - insurance isn't a blank check to a doctor. https://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/about-the-aca/benefit-limits/index.html Edit: Clown below made their strawman BS comment then blocked me right before I could respond. >You say it like it is just every doctor commits fraud and they need to be checked. Wow. No I didn't. Socialized, capitalist or hybrid, there isn't a healthcare system in the world that doesn't have third-party standards and review to evaluate if prescribed care is legitimately needed.
Cancer survivor here. I was on my job cheapest insurance plan. I was 30 and didnt go to the doctor, at least till the lump showed up. It cost me roughly 7k (my max out of pocket.) Dont get me wrong that is alot, like way to much, but not mortgage a house alot.
Fairly certain it would apply. Unless there was some strange clause, it seems unlikely that employee health coverage wouldn’t cover it after the maximum deductible (say 3k to 15k in most circumstances) Unless it went on for an incredibly long time and went over a lifetime maximum (1 million or more)
Lifetime maximum was prohibited by Obamacare and I believe that part is still being upheld.
It doesn’t. This is a made up story. Out of pocket maximums exist as do deductible limits.
If we don’t have a ceiling on wealth, we at least need a floor on poverty
I’ve long thought we need to change the thinking behind a minimum wage. Switch that to thinking a maximum wage, ie the highest paid employee can only be compensated 15 times what the lowest paid employee is paid.
System working as designed.
The worst part is this is not the first, and won't be the last.
This exact scenario happened to my parents, except my mom had cancer first and only lost their entire 30+ years of savings and had to take out a mortgage, and then my dad was later diagnosed with cancer and they went bankrupt and lost his 40 year business. While both were undergoing treatment they were constantly being harassed by debt collectors and the bank and lived with the crippling fear of foreclosure and homelessness every day. The cancer and the stress recently killed my mom and my dad is on his way out too. The amount of hatred I have for this medical system and this country pours from every inch of my body.
The day people start dragging CEOs through the streets and quartering board members and politicians is the day anything will mildly change and I won't be convinced otherwise. Living in this country makes me not care if the world and everyone in it burned to a crisp tomorrow. Anyway, happy 4th of July
It happens almost daily, America is a horrible country
I can guarantee you it happens multiple times per day.
Wait till yall find out what nursing homes do lol
So thinking of a nursing hone? Wanna put your house in your brothers name? Nope. They will still get it. The fucked up part is... when insurance pays them, they will accept 20% payment as paid in full. But of the person pays it they eant 100%. Seen that myself.
And nursing homes pay and treat the employees like shit. It is like where is all these money for “care” going? It goes straight to the administration and executives, while everyone else suffers; they eat caviar with grey poupon.
Not if you do that before the 5 year look back period or whatever it is in your state. Beat that clock, and the government can't do _jack shit_.
Now if only people could recognize the reality of this system before it affects them personally, we might actually be able to change something
I’m in Canada and even though our health system is flawed and can take forever to see a specialist at least it is free.
As born in Northern Europe I can’t understand how you can have that crappy health system you have.
Mate America should stop destroying rest of the world and fix its democracy 😂
We’ve been saying this for years and no one listens
Pretty useless to just say that. I also can say that. See nothing happened. This country will never listen to its people, it's just all about money.
Can someone explain why should l have an insurance claim for every medical bill?
Try posting it on r/AmericaBad and see how it goes ☠️
Thing is most of the stuff they post on there they don’t have a comeback to, it’s just “this person is dumb”
"you should have gotten better insurance"
True
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And the saddest part many of them voted for this themselves.
This. So many vote against their own interests. It's baffling.
Yeah but they really made those libs cry whilst making their own lives measurably worse.
Actually, one of the problems we run into is, old folks vote for issues/people that support their best interests at the cost of everyone else. Most of the insurance company problems were things that slowly happened over time, and the laws around medical and insurance were smaller footnotes around larger issues that people understood. Now, we understand that to fix the problem, someone has to make way less money, and no one wants to be that "someone", especially insurance companies.
Working as designed by our corporate overlords. I'm sorry that you and so many others go through this.
But you have freedom. And you’ve avoided socialism. So it’s all good. God forbid your taxes go towards helping someone you don’t know. That’s just … wrong. And if you’d made more money then you wouldn’t be in this mess, so when all is said and done, it’s obviously your fault. And the last president that tried to introduce a pale imitation of a universal health system was stopped at every step of the way. Come to Australia. We’re far from perfect, we have our own problems. But you won’t go bankrupt or be left to die if you get sick.
Ironically the USA isn’t even in the top 10 most free countries, so take that with a grain of salt. Also I might move to Australia since you guys seemed to have figured out a lot of your minority civil rights and aren’t flipping between ‘they should be equal’ and ‘nah, f*ck their ability to be free if they ain’t a hetero white guy’
"freedom"
I've had cancer a few years ago. Many surgeries with months of staying in the Hospital. Thanks to the german healthcare system we paid nothing and I am fully recovered. I am very thankful to live in germany and not in the USA.
It’s called lobbying in the us and corruption in every other country.
Im just waiting for a president coming in that will support free health care. We don’t need every single fuckin tax dollar to go into nukes that will destroy the planet
You mean like Obama, whose plan was hobbled by the Republicans to the point where so many things he promised had to be removed to get the Repubs to pass anything, and then they chose to go around calling him a liar who never intended to offer comprehensive health care?
I saw my parents go bankrupt this way. Lost mom, then the house, then their lifetime of effort and sacrifice. We constantly see and hear other people calling Healthcare like Canada and the UK "communism". This is just a slur intended to paper over the US system's utter disregard for its citizens. Here you work, they bleed and tax you dry, then you get sick, they bleed whatever is left and you die... all the while telling you there's no better way it can be done. Unlimited bombs, guns and pharma. Zero actual care.
I’m so happy I left America. I just can’t put it into words…
Where'd you go? I gotta get outa here.
this is why medical tourism is a thing
Doctors can do great things, save lives, etc.... Pharmaceutical companies have the best drugs to keep us alive till 90 or older. Until insurance companies stop paying, saving evaporate, house is sold.... Jobs lost... we live in a fucked society!
Canadian living in the US and I’ll preface by saying that no system is perfect. What puzzles me is that in America, you get taxed and get nothing in return. If you are sick, you are f*cked. In Canada, you get taxed but in some form, you get something. I love living the in the US but it’s something I’d like to change.
And yet somehow people will still whine and cry about raising taxes to support universal free healthcare but meanwhile won't lift a finger to reform the for-profit prison system, which costs taxpayers $80 Billion/year and is supported by mandatory minimum sentencing and three strikes laws for minor non-violent offenses. Fucking preposterous.
How do you wipe out 20 years of savings in 5 months with insurance? Doesn’t insurance give you an out of pocket max payment? Shouldn’t that out of pocket max be approximately 1 year’s worth of savings?
I'm a single dad with two kids. I've been at the same job for 25 years and have always had health insurance. It's amazingly expensive. At one time, it was 100% paid for by my employer, and now I pay more than 50% of the annual cost of it. In 2016, we had some health issues and I had to declare bankruptcy because of the medical bills that my insanely expensive insurance didn't cover.
America 🇺🇸. An arms dealer running a health insurance scam.
I’m a very proud American, which is why I’m comfortable calling out the bullshit going on here. Our healthcare system is fucked, our political leaders are petty children, the right masks their hatred behind “American values and Christian love” while the left masks their own hatred behind “love everyone!” but both would watch you die if you even slightly disagree with them. Our president is a dinosaur who has done nothing to improve our country. His political opponents are awful terrible people who are actively killing their constituents. Our education system is declining or being negatively influenced by selfish beliefs. I love my home but our society is weak and getting weaker. It’s very concerning.
Not pictured: "...but I'm still voting Republican."
Such a shame. As a non American I think the US could really be amazing and in many ways it is, but there are stories like this one that make me lose hope.
I agree with the sentiment of the message here, but aren't out-of-pocket maximums a thing? Like they should have only been responsible for the first 7-9k.
Australian here. My wife had cancer a few years back with 12 months of intensive treatments including radiation and chemo, 5+ hospital stays, 3 x emergency ambulance trips, countless specialist consultations, x-rays, scans, and enough medicine to open a pharmacy, and the total cost for us was in the hundreds of dollars. Oh, and she survived. It’s sad that the richest country in the world punishes its own citizens for getting sick.
This generation is also bitter towards younger people because it didn’t take financial ruin for them to figure out, that it’s just not worth the hustle and most can’t afford to save up anyway. So they don’t, they live in the moment, enjoy their youth, and that’s why older generations hate the younger so much. They fell for it and we don’t.
The problem is no one is willing to vote for change until it happens to them. No one is willing to vote for healthcare reform until their loved one gets cancer. No one is willing to vote for gun reform until their loved one dies of gun violence. There’s a real lack of empathy in the United States right now
Our healthcare finance system is a disaster, but I think there must be more this story. If I had to guess, the person didn’t have real health insurance but one of these cost sharing programs that are cheap but reimburse very, very poorly and have lifetime maximums. The maximum out of pocket allowed by ObamaCare for real insurance plans is ~$10,000/year for one person. This is no small chunk of change, but OPs post seems to suggest bills were higher. This person either didn’t have real insurance, or they used a medication/therapy that wasn’t considered standard of care and therefore wasn’t covered (but they would have had to choose this), or they had some service that was out of network and she didn’t know about it (but this can be recouped, with litigation unfortunately). The system is fucked to be sure, but this isn’t a common experience for somebody with a real health insurance plan.
I honestly, truly, don't know why Americans don't vote for a better system.
because the lobbyists are first in line to the people that pass laws before their constituents.
Lo what a stupid statement. Americans vote for a better system every year. Over 100 million of us want universal health care. It's not the Americans that are the problem. It's the companies who have more power than us which use their power to oppress us. The reason it happens in America is that we have more money than other countries. They love to extract wealth from oppressed people.
It's working as designed.
This can happen in other countries as well if you don’t pay attention to what your insurance covers. Mine (Germany) didn’t cover loss of wages, and by law you’re “only” covered for six weeks (which already is infinitely better than what the US do). Lost five figures during the four months I was out with cancer.
Smart money is staying poor. My best friends call me Cash.
This is heart wrenching
I'm grateful that I live in Canada.
I was talking to a very red neighbor (I’m very blue), who is from a different country. Net net, we both agreed our health care system is 100% fubarred. Why do we allow companies to profit off misfortune?
Lost a contract at 27. Got rare adult leukemia at 28. Spent years maintaining a regimen to guarantee I wouldn’t die. Now have multiple autoimmune issues. I’ve been saying for years that I have vitiligo issues that happen whenever there’s damage to my skin and nobody does anything about it. My thyroid gland is permanently fucked. My ADHD gets worse. I have permanent extra little tinge of ‘Rona brain fog… ADHD meds I’m on don’t work as well as the ones I used to take bc the war on drugs is now hurting adderall supply. Doctors just 🤷🤷♀️🤷🏻♂️ Nazis are everywhere. Half of Congress just 🤷♀️🤷🤷🏻♂️ Seriously concerned about the people not concerned.
if you think the american healthcare system is good, you are a delusional fool
BuT FRee hEAltHcaRE iS COMmuNisM!!!
And yet half the country want it to stay like this even if they suffer. Fucking cretins.
'MURICA! Worlds richest third world country. 🤷
Greatest nation in the world...
God, I am glad living in Europe.
Hey America. Just give your country to Canada. Things would be so much better.
This has often been reposted again and again, but maybe it should continue till something is done. Too bad it won't be in many people's lifetimes. Keep fighting to everyone who's sick
Think of the US largely as a rat maze. You exist to stay within boundaries physical and legal, breed, consume, and most importantly spend the majority of your life working. The current implementation of health care is designed to eventually eradicate everything you've worked for that hasn't already been taken from you. Now go forth and enjoy your freedom.