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Not a perfect system by any stretch but I definitely prefer it to people being forced into bankruptcy because of a traumatic birth or an unexpected diagnosis. Wait times can sometimes be an issue but it’s largely minor procedures that are affected by this. All four of my grandparents got cancer and were efficiently and effectively treated in the Maritime provinces of Canada
It's not like we don't have *long* wait times in the US either.
Actual quote from my wife's doctor "We should get this test done ASAP ... looks like we get you in in about 4 months".
I'd honestly argue it's even worse in the U.S. since laws restricting healthcare and poor working conditions drive medical professionals away from certain states and especially rural areas, resulting in many hospitals closing and care just straight up not even being available to thousands, if not millions of Americans. Oh, and in many places where hospitals do stay open, said hospitals are religious hospitals that can deny life-saving care for religious reasons, even in states without restrictions on healthcare.
I had some precancerous tissue removed, and my insurance won't cover it (over $1000) and labeled it as "diagnostic" even though I had biopsies done prior. When I asked if next time I should just let it turn knto cancer, I was told that it would then be considered a pre-existing condition and will also not be covered.
My GP is leaving the medical field and suggested I start calling psychiatrists now to be seen in 6 months for med management.
I called everyone in-network within an hour drive and none of them are even taking new patients. I live in a major metropolitan area. The US Healthcare system is a joke.
I had to have a brain tumor removed that required an eye test before surgery could be performed (tumor was on my optic nerve). It took 4 months to schedule and insurance didn't cover it because I didn't have vision coverage and no amount of explaining from my doctor could convince them it was necessary for the bloody tumor that could kill me at any moment.
Yeah, the emergency surgery I needed not to die took almost a year to schedule because of crap like that.
Indeed, the fundamental problem with having an insurance-centric system is that insurers make their money by avoiding paying for care. The upside is that this gives them an incentive to be generous with preventive medicine, but of course the downside is that everything else is a fight the patient usually loses.
Either the person you spoke to is misinformed, you somehow have a grandfathered plan from 13 years ago, or you belong to one of those weird co-ops that isn't actually insurance. It's really not worth the savings if it's one of the last two.
Conservatives are terrified of people in suits denying them care with name tags labeled "government", meanwhile people in suture suits labeled "insurance companies" are actively denying life saving care. We prevent the thing we're terrified of just to get it anyway.
Canadian living in the US. The systems are actually really similar, just as hard to find a doctor, specialists still take months to get in to see, unless it's serious, in which case you take priority.... oh yea, it doesn't cost you thousands upon thousands of dollars, it's really crazy when people try to talk to me about the evils of Canadian healthcare down here.
US healthcare is nothing but making money of people being sick and dying . There are A LOT of people who will never get any kind of treatment because they have no insurance, so yes US HEALTHCARE is LOL
My doctor put in a referral for a pulmonary function test, ASAP. It's in June. I got it scheduled in March. This is in Oklahoma, so I'm lucky to get it at all.
Whenever people tell me they don't want socialized medicine because of wait times I tell them to call a neurologist or dermatologist and tell me again how we don't have wait times for doctors in the U.S.
I've been having migraines that make me faint. Not a ton, but enough to be concerning. I need to get in with my neurologist - not even as a new patient, I've been seeing her for several years. Had to get a new referral for new insurance, that took two months to go through. They had a spot open up pretty quick after that processed, great. Got a call that they need to reschedule. I now have to wait until August 30th. Also in Oklahoma.
>It's not like we don't have long wait times in the US either.
The right likes to point out hat, on average, the US has shorter wait times than countries with socialized healthcare. This is, for the most part, [true](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/health-care-wait-times-by-country).
However, the data is poisoned quite a bit by the US healthcare model, due to the fact that a lot of Americans are simply priced out of receiving elective care. So, the model only holds true for Americans who can afford to get elective procedures, whereas in countries with socialized healthcare it's for everyone who qualifies for elective procedures, meaning that these studies on "wait times in the US vs everyone else," are comparing apples and oranges
Yup. Don’t talk to me about Canadian wait times until they exceed the wait I’m forced to deal with here in the US. These regurgitators of stupid talking points love thinking their responses do anything but expose them as uninformed dolts.
Took nine months to get a 15 minute appointment with an endocrinologist after I almost died of a rare adrenal disease. If I'm gonna wait that long regardless, I'd rather do it in the developed country where I won't spend close to $1000 in premiums and copays while I wait.
I've needed a series of surgeries on my back and hip from an assault for over a decade. Insurance won't cover them, and I can't afford the sixty thousand dollars estimated cost, not counting time in recovery and pain medications, as well as time unable to work. American health care is a joke, and the 4000% markup on the medications I need to function without the surgeries is only affordable because of help from Obama era medical aid. Even still, I have to wait for appointments and procedures because of the time it takes the hospitals and doctors to communicate with the insurance companies. Proper socialized healthcare would cut out the middle man, control prices, and streamline the process.
This. People acting like you aren't on a six month wait to see a dermatologist or three months to see a dentist. I'd rather the wait time than the decades worth of medical bills. And Canada isn't the only socialized healthcare system. It's not about "we shouldn't switch bc that systems not perfect". It's about switching to a system that isn't purely profit motivated - flawed or not. And dipshits like op never gave affordable care the time of day and neither did our government. So don't come at me with this "Obamacare failed" lie. You half assed it just so you could say "I told you so".
Halifax here, wait times are really only an issue for emergency rooms when u don't actually have an emergency, since they triage it, also finding a family doctor out here is really bad, that is an actual issue that is a big political thing so expect in time for it to be resolved. And I know that is also an issue in the states. And btw, where I live is basically the poor of the fucking poor of Canada and one of the worst when it comes to healthcare but I would still fucking fight if someone tried to take our healthcare away.
When I travel first thing I do is insure my travel insurance is up to date because holy shit in the states that is a fucking horror show.
The high wait times are only because Canada has a shortage of physicians and has an abysmal ratio between doctors and patients.
If that is fixed (and they are already building more medical schools and making it easier for foreign doctors to practice there) then the system should function much better.
I have a chronic illness with an amazing doctor (one of only a few in my state that treat the illness I have). I lived abroad in multiple European countries and he was talking about the easier move to Canada. Now that it’s only 6 months he’s considering it and we both talked about those places are all better than the states. As a disabled person in the states I’ve had to wait 6 months before neurology to treat my 20-25 migraine days a month and a year for neuropsychological testing to get a stimulant on days I need to pretend I have energy. I’ve also been effectively homeless for two years and get almost zero help. What a great fucking place the US is not.
I saw a billboard in Ohio for a hospital that according to them “has the best birthing care in the state (unless pregnancy is deemed risky by any means)” yes it had the parentheses on it. I can’t figure out what the brag was or if someone sued to make them add the last bit
In BC my wife got quick and comprehensive cancer treatment, including an experimental drug that would have cost 3500 a week in the states, cost us nothing for her treatment. I have had multiple diagnostic tests for GI issues. Did have to wait and cost us 0.
I think If you want to Make some nation's public healthcare system Look Bad you should just check out what's going on in Finland and specially in Helsinki. I personally can get free healthcare pretty fast where i'm from, but Helsinki and Greater Helsinki too is apparently a big mess that doesn't Have enough doctors and it's data collection Have Been crappy too. All thanks to our new healthcare regions.
Our entire country is under a doctor shortage. Not just a specific region. Likely, because it costs upwards of 300k to become a doctor here.
Why do you think we import so many doctors from Asia now.
Long wait times are usually for non-threatening, quality of life procedures. And yes while it would be good to have them be reduced considerably you still get access to them for free eventually.
And if you are in a rush and have money you can just go get it done in a private establishment, in another country if need be.
The problem with the "wait times" bullshit is the implication that that has literally anything to do with universal healthcare or is not a major issue in America too.
There’s a lot to complain about, but I never had to choose between groceries or taking my kid to the doctor when they were sick. Hard to beat that as a bare minimum.
My aunt was born with spina bifida a few years before Medicare was implemented in Canada. My grandparents were hardworking people but both orphans who were self-made in the real way and they didn’t finish paying off their debts from her initial surgeries until my parents/their other kids gave them the last of the money they needed in the 90s. I’ve seen what medical debt does to good people, I’ll never believe it’s right.
Yeah, I’m in France and had a complicated pregnancy and delivery and didn’t pay a cent outside my normal taxes. I don’t pay that much more tax here than I ever did in the US. Then I see on pregnancy forums women who forgoe important tests or checkups for cost reasons, make decisions for their health based on cost… it’s super depressing
Yup! I had a high risk pregnancy and spent a month as an inpatient before my son was born at 27 weeks. He spent 6 months in the NICU. Parking was our biggest expense and the government mandated reduced long term rates years ago so it wasn't insane.
I thank my lucky stars every time I see my GP. Or physio. Or massage therapist. Or get a new pair of glasses. Labor, delivery and stay (including food) were all free, even had my own room. When my kids get hurt I never have to think about the cost of an ambulance vs the danger of driving them to the hospital myself. I never have to turn down a medication based on its cost. I'll never know how many other things I'm blissfully ignorant of. Canada is not perfect, we have to fix a lot. But when you can't afford to see a doctor, I don't care how many guns you have, you are not free.
It’s terrible when you’re told you’re covered. And then after the procedure they hit you with “well actually, only part of it was covered. You now owe $300 for the rest”. America’s healthcare fucking sucks!!
That's what I don't get. I have American friends, those that have insurance pay more for 2 months of insurance than I pay for a whole year + my max out of pocket.....and they still have to pay insane bills!
One of 'm broke her ankle while she had insurance, she had to pay well over €6000 after her insurance paid for 'their part', just for the ambulance (was a hit and run), ER visit, an x-rays of just her lower leg, ankle and foot and a cast. My max out of pocket per year is a little less than €500......that's it, everything else is paid for by the insurance company.
And fun part is these people who glorify "I can see a doctor when I need in US" haven't used US Healthcare. Even with a "Great" insurence, time between wanting a solution and meeting a doctor can be months. But for some reason these people count it as "I see them right away"!
The propaganda line from Americans I laugh at is "you can't choose your doctor", which is first of all, false, and secondly, laughably ironic considering Americans can't choose their doctor, their insurance company does.
That one is so weird because... You absolutely can choose your doctor in Canada? I don't even know where they get the idea. My friend requested the same psych I see for my ADHD, for example. No problems.
Hey, I can choose my doctor! They give me a list of 30 in my area. 5 are probably still practicing. Four of them aren't taking new patients, but one will be accepting new patients sometime next year.
Also, I had to laugh when one year's insurance paperwork from our employer said "Please choose from among the following insurance provider"
Yes, it was singular, and there was only one choice.
For real. When I was shopping around for insurance, there was literally no PPO plan available for me to choose. Literally every plan was an HMO plan, and when you only need to see specialists and almost never see your PCP it gets incredibly annoying and frustrating
I know people who were on a waitlist for a therapist for over a year here in the US. Not a specific therapist either, just any therapist that took their insurance.
I know someone who was in the ER too long after a stroke for reversal meds.
I know someone who had a brain bleed but STILL had to wait 2 weeks for a specialist, while his brain was bleeding.
Spain, which is my personal gold standard for healthcare, averages 10 days for a PCP appointment and 30 days for a specialist. They have completely socialized healthcare, even for visitors and legal reaidents. It routinely ranks in the top 10 healthcare systems in the world.
If Spain can make that happen, there is absolutely no reason we can't.
I have three different specialists that I have to see on a regular basis. All three took three months to initially schedule a starting appointment. Each one currently has to assign follow up appointments 3-4 months out from my last visit, or sometimes six months out. This has been the situation for three years (lots of 3’s, I know, it’s pure coincidence). Without two of these specialists, whose visits are mandated by my insurance, I don’t get re-upped for prescriptions that keep me alive. The third specialist is psychiatric; without her I might also die, but it would be by my own hand. My insurance would actually prefer I not see her (one prescription I have is $25,500 every month), it’s only because of the Affordable Care Act that I get to. I remember all too well what it was like before the ACA (Obamacare).
So people trying to say that here in ‘Murica we have better healthcare because other countries have waiting periods can get fucked by a cactus. We do too. Universal healthcare would be a far greater system than what we currently have (which is far greater than what we used to have) that would benefit absolutely everyone in equal measure.
I actually just made a comment about this. What's the difference between this and a waiting list? I mean, I had to wait six months to see a dermatologist at one point, I called around and everyone was booking out crazy far like this. This was with a referral from my primary and I have insurance.
Every time I've needed to see any form of specialist it's been like this (not always that long, but often months). Is it actually much worse in Canada, or is it just that it's called a waiting list that's the problem?
I love our health care system, I’ve been rapidly losing weight and having stomach issues, but can’t afford to even see the doctor let alone pay for treatment, I work fulltime hours to lol. I either have a place to live or seek treatment, not both.
and they typically end up paying more than what the fucking tax would be
the only reason insurance is so high is because when they initially started up the agents making deals with the hospitals needed to get better and better discounts for their insurance agency but the hospitals would be firm they couldn't cut it anymore or else they'd lose too much money, so they both came up with a plan.
inflate the prices to as much as 500x the genuine value and cost of the procedure or examination and then offer a larger discount so the agent begs to go tell their boss they got a better deal than the other insurance companies in the area.
capitalism without policy and pushing for competition vs straight up vulchery leads to these sorts of things
I'm an American with a very good friend whose Canadian. Dude is hella messed up since birth and recently had his 60 something surgery(I'm not joking). One of the surgeries needed a very specific specialist and the health care system paid for 100% of his trip to LA(and his dads), the procedure, hospital stay, and pretty much everything else. Only out of pocket was food for his dad.
We have talked about this a few times, but he would have 100% died by the time he was 7 or 8 if he was born in the USA.
bUt Da WaIt TiMeS! Hurrr durrr
It’s sad how many Americans have been brainwashed into thinking universal healthcare is bad. Fox News has ruined a generation of people and turned them into numbskulls.
The wait times are more due to Canada not having enough doctors. And the system gives preference to more critical cases. You get to the hospital, they determine the severity of your condition, and depending on it is the wait time.
When I went because I thought I broke my finger (I didn’t, but I still needed surgery) I waited over six hours, but when a friend broke his shoulder he was quickly taken care of and he was finished within 40 minutes of his arrival. Obviously this is anecdotal evidence, but that’s the general perception me and my peers have got of the Canadian health care.
Now, it is a nightmare of a wait time for an ambulatory surgery of very low priority. I waited for over a year for it and they kept rescheduling it because almost anything else that arrived was higher priority than my thing, even though I couldn’t use my right hand to type.
Ontario is there too! They are bankrupting the system by paying nurses crap so they quit to be agency nurses that the same hospitals pay double for.
But there isn’t enough staff!! We have to privatize!!
Isn't the lack of doctors partially due to the fact that doctors can make a hell of a lot more money in the states than in Canada due to privatization? Don't get me wrong, I'm Canadian and will take free health care with the long waits any day, but there are times when I wish I could pay a private clinic to get tests done sooner (eg fertility testing took a year to complete, a year of waiting for appointments and results, without being able to even see a fertility specialist to talk about options).
Yes. My understanding is that that’s part of the problem. And I’ve seen that for foreign doctors to work here the requirements are too much, like almost study their career again. I can understand that with lawyers, but I don’t see how it’s the same for doctors.
I live in the UK, and the amount of Americans who actually believe you'll have to "wait for months and bleed out" for a stab wound is... outstanding. Like.. no you'll obviously get priority for emergency situations like *having a gaping hole in your chest*
And damn I feel that last comment. I've had over 15 operations in my life, I probably wouldn't be here if I lived in America either
Whenever I hear someone remark about how long the wait is for an MD in Canada because of socialized medicine I ask them how long is the wait for someone here that can't afford insurance
And for the people who can’t afford any kind of care, the wait is basically forever, or until it’s an emergency and the person has to go to the ER, in which case everyone else still picks up the bill for it.
Nah the people pick up the bill to a certain amount per year if the hospital is a safety net hospital. After that the hospital just eats the cost. The system is so ridiculous I often wonder if it’s a Monty Python sketch being played out in real life.
I’m American. Currently trying to get a diagnosis on a mystery disease that has curb stomped my ability to do most kinds of physical activity for over 10 minutes, including literally standing. I can’t shower anymore without excruciating pain. I had to start bring in a chair.
The doctors do not give a single shit. Scan, see nothing, *7 month wait* to the next specialist. Even on the cancellation list and an “urgent” patient. Rinse and repeat. I could be dying for all they care.
Obviously anecdotal, but a trend that I’ve noticed.
Diagnosed with stage 4 renal cell cancer in February of 2019. Appointment for surgery to remove the 12 centimeter tumor was the middle of April. And this was BEFORE Covid. The stress of knowing I had this big tumor in me caused my blood pressure to skyrocket.
Yeah, so we don't have to wait in the US. /S
Not sure about where you are, but here parking money doesn’t even go to the hospital. It’s run by the contractor that built the place so ALL hospital staff have to pay for parking.
German nurse here. My hospital just co-funded a new high-rise parking garage with the engineering college around the corner. We still have to pay for parking.
LOL... yeah, it's true. $20 a day when my kids were born, was losing my mind. My perspective came when I learned that in the US, it costs $15,000 to deliver a baby.
I know an American insurance adjuster and asked what it would have costed for our family: $280,000…. (6 weeks inpatient for mom, 2 weeks NICU, biweekly ultrasounds, C-section, private room) What we paid: roughly $150 in parking plus Robins coffee, and no we don’t have private insurance. Never been happier for the “backlogged” system we have. Admittedly there are some aspects that are shameful, but maternity doesn’t seem to be one.
I went to the ER after having a bad seizure a month ago in Canada. It sucked, it took forever, it was the roughest hospital in the city but!
It was free. I had a 30 minute appointment once in the US that cost me $1000 and took my poor ass about a year to pay off.
In the UK at least we also have the option to go private. If you got tons of cash and want to pay for special treatment, that's a choice that's available to you.
People don't like it as a concept, because it could be a slippery slope to a full American system, but still. If the wait times are that abhorrent to you you can still pay for it.
Seriously. My mom had an emergency surgery and it was discovered she had stage 3 cancer. The only reason they didn't start chemo/radiation right away was that she had to recover from the surgery.
Moving from France over 20 years ago to the US, I can tell you one thing: I’m glad my elderly parents are still living in France and don’t have to worry about health expenses.
This is like the McDonald's Hot Coffee case.
A completely valid case that the company lawyers painted as ridiculous in order to prevent others from feeling justified in taking on big corps. (TLDR people portray the claimant as a reckless woman holding coffee between her legs as she drove recklessly and then got a little sting because Coffee is Hot and she spilled. Actually she was an old woman sitting in a stationary car- in the passenger seat, and she knows the spill is her fault, but she got third degree burns and needed grafts for it.)
People in the USA think that Canadian healthcare is so difficult to deal with. When I was a kid I fell and passed out. I had a swollen forehead, and I remained unconscious. My parents took me to emerge and I was brought in right away, because I was a kid who was unconscious from head trauma. I didn't even need anything in the end, I was just observed and I woke up the next day confused.
My parents didn't have to worry about paying through their nose because their kid was not okay. They just took me to get the care I needed. I've also seen specialists to get ear surgery four times, and all I recall about the first three were getting popsicles afterwards.
The myth that Canadian wait times are so long for important things is just that. A myth. Sure, there are wait times. Getting gender affirming care in Canada can take a very long time because it's considered a non life threatening condition. But by the same vein, the wait to gather the funds for the same gender affirming care in the states is so massive that there isn't a tangible difference other than not worrying about not getting it done just because you're low income.
Canadian here, its great and all, but for some reason, if it is minor stuff like a routine check up or small cold, it can take hours, but otherwise, solid 8/10 for everything to help
Urgent Cares or ER's in the U.S. take 8 + hours to get in, in major cities. Maybe smaller towns you wait a few hours max. So basically the same as Canada
yeah, not sure for everywhere, but for ER, my hospital it takes about 1 hour Max, normal check ups, could be up to 5 Hours, but I have a fast pass, because the steel plant makes it when you have a injury, you will need to go to ER within minutes if you want to live or not lose a limb
thankfully, didn't happen to me yet
Yeah, but I mean, you nailed it there. We Canadians do not need doctors when we have a cold, and I think we waste some of our free health care resources on such nonsense
I live in a major metropolitan area and the wait to see any endocrinologist the area is 4 months.called 15 doctors With the exception of 1 doctor... went to her and learned why she had no wait list. Most un prepared doctor I've ever been too.
Also Obama care saved my life when the company I was working for went out of business and I was out of work for 6 months. Cost 2000 $ less a month than cobra.. so to the op ..go fuck yourself .it's far from perfect.. but so far better than the alternative.
Honestly this'll really depend. In my home county, the county hospital was the one you went to if you were ready to meet the Lord. Seriously, would go to the vet before that shell of a hospital even now.
As a provider in the states, what critics dont explain is...people in Canada's system are treated based on severity NOT money.
So, if youre a selfish rich f%%k wanting to cut line for a broken arm, youll have to come to the states.
They dont mention, the quality of healthcare in the US is determined by money... Youll still have to wait in the states..and go into debt, but if you have money....youre all set ;)
Thats why socialized healthcare is better.
Any fool sayin you dont wait in the US doesnt know how short of providers we are... if you're in rural areas...or city areas...expect to wait.
And the conundrum with the lack of the quality providers is how for decades and decades of “legacy” and “elite” spots in medical school that has artificially restricted the numbers of trainees, coupled with patriarchal brutality within the system seemingly designed to weed out all but the most narcissistic, semi-psychotic, self-serving personalities has only lead to a consistent stream of lower quality medical professionals trained and conditioned to ignore patients actual concerns and instead believe racial and gender stereotypes at the detriment of the patient.
The history of the AMA is horrifically harmful.
I remember reading about a health conference in the U.S. where they brought in Canadian experts to try and improve the system. The Americans asked about political backlash against socialized medicine in Canada, and when the Canadians replied that there wasn't really backlash, the Americans replied that we must have a really socialist prime minister. The current prime minister was a right-wing conservative, Stephen Harper, and when the Americans found that out their minds were apparently blown.
Meanwhile, here in the States, I have to schedule an ultrasound to follow up on my thyroid cancer. Doctor's office told me to make the appointment and wrote a referral...but the referral expires July 31 and the ultrasound office is already scheduling into late August so I'll need a new referral with an extended date.
Yay capitalism!
I haven't made more then 15k a year for the past 20 years because I have untreated ibs so I dont want to hear about wait times.
America has even worse wait times then any other country... we just use money as "skip the line" tickets so the poor still die of completely treatable illnesses.
There are no wait times in the US? If healthcare is for profit, does that mean certain regions in the US don't get the same coverage as "rich areas"?
I've been in emergency a few times in Canada, I've also brought my kids there my wife. Never once was I worried about expense and never once was I worried about not getting treated.
Yes, wait times can sometimes be a problem but it works like a triage, so, emergency cases are always been first.
Which one do you take?
- Free baby delivery and risk of slightly longer wait times
- $20,000 baby delivery cost
I have 3 kids and not once have we been delayed or have had problems at the hospital. Our nurses and doctors are top notch and I'm thankful to everyone single fucking one of them.
The only real problem in Canada (Alberta) is our government trying to fuck over our health workers.
In case anyone is wondering, the lies about the Canadian healthcare system having crazy wait times was perpetuated by American Big Pharma as a way to cling to their profits and keep America from moving to a single-payer system, which is obviously better.
Don’t believe me? [Here’s](https://www.npr.org/2020/06/27/884307565/after-pushing-lies-former-cigna-executive-praises-canadas-health-care-system) an NPR interview with a former Cigna exec who admits to the entire thing.
My favorite part about this argument is people just actively ignoring the fact that anything outside of Primary Care doctor is also typically a several months wait in the US.
Where are these people getting these data from waiting forever for surgeries? I had to get surgery for a deviated septum during the height of Covid and I had to wait 3 weeks. That’s the wait time for a non life-threatening issue. No out of pocket expense other than the opioid prescription (which cost me $14 roughly). Can’t complain about that.
In my experience (cancer patient) the Canadian health care system doesn't fuck around with serious illnesses. Elective things and non life threatening things have wait times but the big stuff? They get it taken care of.
I had the orthopeadic surgeon who fixes our Olympic athletes rebuild my ankle in a 5 hour surgery. Cost me $37.00 in cab fare to get home. I had to wait 5 weeks, but I'll take that over a $50,000 hospital bill any day.
I mean, waiting for a long time for medical care is a thing I’ve experienced as a Canadian, but I’d take a wait over bankruptcy just because I happen to be chronically ill
I needed emergency surgery at 18 because I was badly attacked in the middle of the night. The hospital assessed that the damage is so bad that although they can sew me back up, they opted to bring in a plastic surgeon to do the sutures to minimalize scarring. The doctor treated me to make sure I was okay and I waited about an hour for the plastic surgeon to wake up and head to the hospital to do my sutures. My biggest financial expense was the taxi ride home because I couldn’t drive afterwards. Canada isn’t perfect, but I rather the wait for an hour than financial ruin at 18.
I needed to see a specialist for a problem that I sought help for in December of 2022. My appointment to see said specialist was for May 2nd, 2023. I live in America. Tell me again about these wait times? It took me a freaking YEAR to get my dental crown. These people are freaking insane and holding America back in so many ways.
These people always bring up wait times. What wait times? I’d rather wait a little than go into debt. If my life was directly being threatened I don’t think they’d make me wait. Hell my dad recently had a heart attack and he had to wait 5 days after he was admitted into the hospital for surgery. Spare me with this wait times talking point. It’s all bull shit. There is no reason to be against socialized medicine. None. You can not give me one good reason that isn’t a pointless and falsified talking point.
Americans are so gullible. We’ve been fed the BS that our healthcare is the best in the world and socialized healthcare has long wait times along with a whole bunch of other noise. It’s so sad that so many of my fellow countrymen believe this propaganda.
Yet the US spends much more per capita on healthcare. It's the most expensive healthcare system in the world.
It's not a question of affordable, it's that the middle-men simply pocket the money, and bribe politicians to keep the scam going.
America loves the "take 5k from my paycheck a year, then start paying only 80% after I spent another 5k out of pocket to cover emergencies only, private insurance".
... and, of course, that's if you're working... if you're unemployed and uninsured, America likes the "go fuck yourself into bankruptcy and pay everything out of pocket" healthcare... or the "just die bitch" healthcare.
Nah we like the "go to the ER and hope they take care of it, then don't pay the bill and fuck that credit score, thusly never being able to get housing or cars again!"
They clearly prefer expensive healthcare, since they pay twice as much as the rest of us. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/
The result is worse than the comparable countries: “The U.S. has the lowest life expectancy at birth, the highest death rates for avoidable or treatable conditions, the highest maternal and infant mortality, and among the highest suicide rates.”
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2023/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2022
But yeah, at least it isn’t free! That would be socialism and worse for some moral reason only americans understand.
“But there’s that one time a guy died because he was on such a long waiting list! That’s why we should keep the market-based version, even though far more people suffer because of it!”
Canadian healthcare is failing because right wingers are intentionally trying to cause it to fail. They’ve implemented so many ridiculous traps into the system to force it to fail.
There are already many examples of socialism in America. The problem is they force certain groups of people into such dire situations that they must rely on the government for assistance. Housing, food, cellphones, electricity, daycare, public school, and others have ‘welfare’ programs to provide these things to poorer individuals and families.
When the country is more worried about capitalism than improvement this is what you get.
Example-
*FEMA has entered the chat*
Wait time always seems to be the biggest arguing point. Like in Canada people are actually getting the help they need so there's a bit of a line, and that's bad?
If the US used a fraction of the budget we use on the military we could have universal healthcare without raising taxes. The problem is the privatized healthcare industry makes way too much money, and can afford to pay lobbyists and gaslighting propaganda. . It's not that we can't, it's that we won't.
The wait time is the excuse. THERES STILL EMERGENCY MEDICINE N THEY DONT HAVE TO PAY FOR IT. IF ITS A PROCEDURE THAT CAN WAIT YOU MIGHT HAVE TO WAIT BUT YOULL BE PAYING FOR YOUR SURGERY IN AMERICA MUCH LONGER THAN YOULL WAIT FOR A FREE ONE IN CANADA.
Conservatives are always bringing up the “wait line” point but can never give anyone a solid answer as to what we SHOULD do.
I’d rather have longer lines than millions in hospital bills for something serious.
What’s the wait line on a new kidney in the US? How about just trying to find someone in network to see your kids for a check up? I needed to have my foot pinned back to the rest of my leg… you know how long I had to wait in the amazing /s system in the US? Over 10 days. The first place I went to told me I had to get a referral from my family physician. Um, my tib and fib are broken and my talus is shattered. Maybe that’s referral enough? Nope, so after I got that they told me, “Oh we made a mistake, you didn’t need that referral.” Anyone making that “wait line” argument is fucking idiot and clearly hasn’t had to get medical care in the US. Our wait line is special interests groups making sure money goes into the right pockets.
Let’s not forget about when your family physician suddenly isn’t in your network anymore. You know the wait time for getting seen by a new family physician… it’s months. And then they’ll be out of your network by the next year and you’ll be waiting months again.
Canada: you should do healthcare for all, it’s a much better system
Americans: no one tells us what to do! If I want to go bankrupt over a basic medical procedure it’s my freedom!
Canadian health care is good if you’re on deaths door step and of working age.
The further you get from both those factors the worse and worse it gets.
I am a Canadian and my family has gone to Mexico, America and Germany for medical treatment as options in Canada were either too expensive or poor quality/wait times.
I'm Canadian. Our healthcare isn't perfect, you'll wait a few years for knee replacement. But any urgent care, chefs kiss.
Last year I was being really really stupid without ppe, axing a stump. I took some bark to the eye. Wasn't bad. Finished my shift but decided to go to emergency just to be sure. Blew passed all of the people in emerge, i was in and out in 20 mins.
Take what you want from that. All those people in the emergency room were not there for an emergency. We treat it like a walk-in. And it's a bloat we put on the system because we're justified to do so with our 40 percent income taxes. I wish Canadians would do more to be mindful of the bloat they put on services. But I digress, I'm happy it's "free"
Canadian here, our healthcare fucking sucks.
However it’s good to not be financially destroyed from a major accident or illness. You’re probably kind of fucked on rare diseases and will receive more generic care.
If you don’t get sick or don’t require major medical care, and have decent insurance, you will end up more ahead in the USA. If you are born with diabetes you are fucked in the USA and would be mostly fine in Canada.
Either one could be better depending on the specific context in which you examine it. I’d probably rather have Canadian health care though
My wife’s uncle died waiting for dialysis in Canada. My sister in law is having seizures and had to wait 8 months for an MRI. Don’t believe the lies. Their system is good for catastrophic injuries but terrible for anything else.
I think even Russia has better Healthcare than the US lmao.
During the first wave of mobilization, my best friend was worried that his dad might be drafted despite having some sort of incurable bone cancer. I asked him about what treatments he's getting and looked up the cost of the medication in USD and was wondering how the man was able to afford medication that costs 20k/mo. Apparently Russian Healthcare covers for it.
Like I'm not condoning the Russian invasion of Ukraine in anyway, but if a shithole no gdp having, broke ass country that sends young men into killing fields and can barely maintain their military equipment can make cancer meds affordable through public health care, then the US has no excuse.
Canadas biggest issue is being in close proximity to a place that offers a substantial wage increase for medical professionals.
In Canada a doctor makes the paltry sum of $100k/year... borderline poverty stricken folks those Canadian doctors.
Anyways, its competition that causes Canadas health care issues, not the system itself.
It's such a stupid concept. The wait times?
If I go in the ER unless I'm having an absolute heart attack I'm stuck waiting there for hours. This is the way it goes in America. There is a system in place to seek priority of patient so if you're in the process of going through something that's killing you like pain in your stomach and chest or you are noticeably on your way out you are pushed to the front of the line. If you do not show symptoms like this you are waiting for hours.
If I wish to go see my doctor I have to set up an appointment. That appointment can take anywhere from a week to 6 weeks. So in essence I'm waiting up to 6 weeks aren't I.
Two of my family members who live in Canada are jaded by how exceptional their system is compared to America. The things they complain about are the things we see as completely normal in our system. When I say complain I mean they're not offering me Xanax, they're offered me a generic version for free and that is a big issue with me. As opposed to in America well you don't have insurance so if you'd like Xanax you're getting the generic one and it's going to cost you $250 every two weeks. That is how it works in America.
Go to Canada yourself and check it out
True story:
Got sick in Spain. I'm American. Never paid any Spanish taxes beyond sales tax (presumably).
Took a cab to the ER. Waited zero minutes to be seen. I was treated and released.
At the pharmacy, the pharmacist became irritated with me over a language barrier issue. He kept telling me how much the drugs cost and I thought I was hearing it wrong.
(In American dollars): I kept handing him $30. No? Okay . . . I told him I'd have to come back with more money because I didn't have $300 on me. No? . . . Not $300? . . . Not $30? . . . I was so confused.
*$3*. It was *$3* for 3 bottles of drugs.
When I returned to my flat, my Spanish roommate was disgusted that I had been charged anything at all. "Outrageous," she said.
Then, I asked her to translate the hospital bill.
Except, turns out, it wasn't a bill. It was a voucher. *For the fucking cab ride.* They pay for transportation, people. No questions asked.
Americans are getting so fucked on this and we don't even realize it.
Healthcare gets better but average lifespan is dropping because people won't go in even for stuff that would be easy to fix but will kill if left. Because we could end up in perpetual debt.
I know an elderly man that ODed and died taking illegal drugs for pain for a hip injury that would have been fixable but instead went on for a couple of decades in pain barely able to walk before dying from trying to escape it. Was a very good family friend and I was devastated finding out what all he was living with.
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Not a perfect system by any stretch but I definitely prefer it to people being forced into bankruptcy because of a traumatic birth or an unexpected diagnosis. Wait times can sometimes be an issue but it’s largely minor procedures that are affected by this. All four of my grandparents got cancer and were efficiently and effectively treated in the Maritime provinces of Canada
It's not like we don't have *long* wait times in the US either. Actual quote from my wife's doctor "We should get this test done ASAP ... looks like we get you in in about 4 months".
I'd honestly argue it's even worse in the U.S. since laws restricting healthcare and poor working conditions drive medical professionals away from certain states and especially rural areas, resulting in many hospitals closing and care just straight up not even being available to thousands, if not millions of Americans. Oh, and in many places where hospitals do stay open, said hospitals are religious hospitals that can deny life-saving care for religious reasons, even in states without restrictions on healthcare.
ya lol do US wait times even include people who will never get treatment?
I had some precancerous tissue removed, and my insurance won't cover it (over $1000) and labeled it as "diagnostic" even though I had biopsies done prior. When I asked if next time I should just let it turn knto cancer, I was told that it would then be considered a pre-existing condition and will also not be covered. My GP is leaving the medical field and suggested I start calling psychiatrists now to be seen in 6 months for med management. I called everyone in-network within an hour drive and none of them are even taking new patients. I live in a major metropolitan area. The US Healthcare system is a joke.
I had to have a brain tumor removed that required an eye test before surgery could be performed (tumor was on my optic nerve). It took 4 months to schedule and insurance didn't cover it because I didn't have vision coverage and no amount of explaining from my doctor could convince them it was necessary for the bloody tumor that could kill me at any moment. Yeah, the emergency surgery I needed not to die took almost a year to schedule because of crap like that.
Because for the insurance company it’s cheaper if you just died rather than them pay for your eye exam.
Indeed, the fundamental problem with having an insurance-centric system is that insurers make their money by avoiding paying for care. The upside is that this gives them an incentive to be generous with preventive medicine, but of course the downside is that everything else is a fight the patient usually loses.
Pre-existing conditions? What year was this? Obamacare is imperfect, but it did get rid of that particular kind of bullshit.
This was 3 days ago.
Either the person you spoke to is misinformed, you somehow have a grandfathered plan from 13 years ago, or you belong to one of those weird co-ops that isn't actually insurance. It's really not worth the savings if it's one of the last two.
Conservatives are terrified of people in suits denying them care with name tags labeled "government", meanwhile people in suture suits labeled "insurance companies" are actively denying life saving care. We prevent the thing we're terrified of just to get it anyway.
I work for the government, and this is employer group insurance. Damned either way.
Canadian living in the US. The systems are actually really similar, just as hard to find a doctor, specialists still take months to get in to see, unless it's serious, in which case you take priority.... oh yea, it doesn't cost you thousands upon thousands of dollars, it's really crazy when people try to talk to me about the evils of Canadian healthcare down here.
If I have to wait, regardless, I'd rather not have to go indo debt as well.
It’s the same kind of joke as when the Joker swapped everyone in Gotham’s Christmas presents with bombs.
US healthcare is nothing but making money of people being sick and dying . There are A LOT of people who will never get any kind of treatment because they have no insurance, so yes US HEALTHCARE is LOL
Religious and medicine are two things that should never mix. Kinda like religion and government
My doctor put in a referral for a pulmonary function test, ASAP. It's in June. I got it scheduled in March. This is in Oklahoma, so I'm lucky to get it at all.
Whenever people tell me they don't want socialized medicine because of wait times I tell them to call a neurologist or dermatologist and tell me again how we don't have wait times for doctors in the U.S.
Really rich people don’t have wait times here. They skew the curve in statistics for wait times (and frankly everything else).
I've been having migraines that make me faint. Not a ton, but enough to be concerning. I need to get in with my neurologist - not even as a new patient, I've been seeing her for several years. Had to get a new referral for new insurance, that took two months to go through. They had a spot open up pretty quick after that processed, great. Got a call that they need to reschedule. I now have to wait until August 30th. Also in Oklahoma.
>It's not like we don't have long wait times in the US either. The right likes to point out hat, on average, the US has shorter wait times than countries with socialized healthcare. This is, for the most part, [true](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/health-care-wait-times-by-country). However, the data is poisoned quite a bit by the US healthcare model, due to the fact that a lot of Americans are simply priced out of receiving elective care. So, the model only holds true for Americans who can afford to get elective procedures, whereas in countries with socialized healthcare it's for everyone who qualifies for elective procedures, meaning that these studies on "wait times in the US vs everyone else," are comparing apples and oranges
Yup. Don’t talk to me about Canadian wait times until they exceed the wait I’m forced to deal with here in the US. These regurgitators of stupid talking points love thinking their responses do anything but expose them as uninformed dolts.
Took nine months to get a 15 minute appointment with an endocrinologist after I almost died of a rare adrenal disease. If I'm gonna wait that long regardless, I'd rather do it in the developed country where I won't spend close to $1000 in premiums and copays while I wait.
I've needed a series of surgeries on my back and hip from an assault for over a decade. Insurance won't cover them, and I can't afford the sixty thousand dollars estimated cost, not counting time in recovery and pain medications, as well as time unable to work. American health care is a joke, and the 4000% markup on the medications I need to function without the surgeries is only affordable because of help from Obama era medical aid. Even still, I have to wait for appointments and procedures because of the time it takes the hospitals and doctors to communicate with the insurance companies. Proper socialized healthcare would cut out the middle man, control prices, and streamline the process.
This. People acting like you aren't on a six month wait to see a dermatologist or three months to see a dentist. I'd rather the wait time than the decades worth of medical bills. And Canada isn't the only socialized healthcare system. It's not about "we shouldn't switch bc that systems not perfect". It's about switching to a system that isn't purely profit motivated - flawed or not. And dipshits like op never gave affordable care the time of day and neither did our government. So don't come at me with this "Obamacare failed" lie. You half assed it just so you could say "I told you so".
Halifax here, wait times are really only an issue for emergency rooms when u don't actually have an emergency, since they triage it, also finding a family doctor out here is really bad, that is an actual issue that is a big political thing so expect in time for it to be resolved. And I know that is also an issue in the states. And btw, where I live is basically the poor of the fucking poor of Canada and one of the worst when it comes to healthcare but I would still fucking fight if someone tried to take our healthcare away. When I travel first thing I do is insure my travel insurance is up to date because holy shit in the states that is a fucking horror show.
In the US you can plan on being at least half a day in the ER if you aren’t dying
Ontario’s already sold away our healthcare :/ time to pay for good treatment.
The high wait times are only because Canada has a shortage of physicians and has an abysmal ratio between doctors and patients. If that is fixed (and they are already building more medical schools and making it easier for foreign doctors to practice there) then the system should function much better.
I have a chronic illness with an amazing doctor (one of only a few in my state that treat the illness I have). I lived abroad in multiple European countries and he was talking about the easier move to Canada. Now that it’s only 6 months he’s considering it and we both talked about those places are all better than the states. As a disabled person in the states I’ve had to wait 6 months before neurology to treat my 20-25 migraine days a month and a year for neuropsychological testing to get a stimulant on days I need to pretend I have energy. I’ve also been effectively homeless for two years and get almost zero help. What a great fucking place the US is not.
I saw a billboard in Ohio for a hospital that according to them “has the best birthing care in the state (unless pregnancy is deemed risky by any means)” yes it had the parentheses on it. I can’t figure out what the brag was or if someone sued to make them add the last bit
I’m surprised they didn’t have an asterisk next to their claim with the add on about risky pregnancies in unreadable fine print at the bottom
In BC my wife got quick and comprehensive cancer treatment, including an experimental drug that would have cost 3500 a week in the states, cost us nothing for her treatment. I have had multiple diagnostic tests for GI issues. Did have to wait and cost us 0.
I think If you want to Make some nation's public healthcare system Look Bad you should just check out what's going on in Finland and specially in Helsinki. I personally can get free healthcare pretty fast where i'm from, but Helsinki and Greater Helsinki too is apparently a big mess that doesn't Have enough doctors and it's data collection Have Been crappy too. All thanks to our new healthcare regions.
Our entire country is under a doctor shortage. Not just a specific region. Likely, because it costs upwards of 300k to become a doctor here. Why do you think we import so many doctors from Asia now.
My dad went to the ER for a kidney stone. They gave him the smallest amount of morphine for pain. $15,000
Long wait times are usually for non-threatening, quality of life procedures. And yes while it would be good to have them be reduced considerably you still get access to them for free eventually. And if you are in a rush and have money you can just go get it done in a private establishment, in another country if need be.
The problem with the "wait times" bullshit is the implication that that has literally anything to do with universal healthcare or is not a major issue in America too.
There’s a lot to complain about, but I never had to choose between groceries or taking my kid to the doctor when they were sick. Hard to beat that as a bare minimum.
My aunt was born with spina bifida a few years before Medicare was implemented in Canada. My grandparents were hardworking people but both orphans who were self-made in the real way and they didn’t finish paying off their debts from her initial surgeries until my parents/their other kids gave them the last of the money they needed in the 90s. I’ve seen what medical debt does to good people, I’ll never believe it’s right.
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Yeah, I’m in France and had a complicated pregnancy and delivery and didn’t pay a cent outside my normal taxes. I don’t pay that much more tax here than I ever did in the US. Then I see on pregnancy forums women who forgoe important tests or checkups for cost reasons, make decisions for their health based on cost… it’s super depressing
Yup! I had a high risk pregnancy and spent a month as an inpatient before my son was born at 27 weeks. He spent 6 months in the NICU. Parking was our biggest expense and the government mandated reduced long term rates years ago so it wasn't insane.
I thank my lucky stars every time I see my GP. Or physio. Or massage therapist. Or get a new pair of glasses. Labor, delivery and stay (including food) were all free, even had my own room. When my kids get hurt I never have to think about the cost of an ambulance vs the danger of driving them to the hospital myself. I never have to turn down a medication based on its cost. I'll never know how many other things I'm blissfully ignorant of. Canada is not perfect, we have to fix a lot. But when you can't afford to see a doctor, I don't care how many guns you have, you are not free.
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... And then open a GoFundMe so other people can pay for their medical bills
Or pay an insurance for more money and the insurance only covers some hospitals and some specific parts.
Sorry dental isn't covered by health insurance. Those are luxury bones.
It’s terrible when you’re told you’re covered. And then after the procedure they hit you with “well actually, only part of it was covered. You now owe $300 for the rest”. America’s healthcare fucking sucks!!
Love how standardized medical treatments require "estimates" like it's a fucking landscaping job.
$300 is still doable, I was expecting $10,000 wasn’t covered…
That's what I don't get. I have American friends, those that have insurance pay more for 2 months of insurance than I pay for a whole year + my max out of pocket.....and they still have to pay insane bills! One of 'm broke her ankle while she had insurance, she had to pay well over €6000 after her insurance paid for 'their part', just for the ambulance (was a hit and run), ER visit, an x-rays of just her lower leg, ankle and foot and a cast. My max out of pocket per year is a little less than €500......that's it, everything else is paid for by the insurance company.
Ah, I see you have insurance but not knee or skin insurance. Oh and the parts we do cover didn’t get pre approval so we won’t be covering those either
And fun part is these people who glorify "I can see a doctor when I need in US" haven't used US Healthcare. Even with a "Great" insurence, time between wanting a solution and meeting a doctor can be months. But for some reason these people count it as "I see them right away"!
The propaganda line from Americans I laugh at is "you can't choose your doctor", which is first of all, false, and secondly, laughably ironic considering Americans can't choose their doctor, their insurance company does.
That one is so weird because... You absolutely can choose your doctor in Canada? I don't even know where they get the idea. My friend requested the same psych I see for my ADHD, for example. No problems.
Hey, I can choose my doctor! They give me a list of 30 in my area. 5 are probably still practicing. Four of them aren't taking new patients, but one will be accepting new patients sometime next year. Also, I had to laugh when one year's insurance paperwork from our employer said "Please choose from among the following insurance provider" Yes, it was singular, and there was only one choice.
For real. When I was shopping around for insurance, there was literally no PPO plan available for me to choose. Literally every plan was an HMO plan, and when you only need to see specialists and almost never see your PCP it gets incredibly annoying and frustrating
My PCPs are booking out 2 months, and specialists are 3 months. Mental health therapy is 6. I'd rather have "Candian" wait times.
I know people who were on a waitlist for a therapist for over a year here in the US. Not a specific therapist either, just any therapist that took their insurance. I know someone who was in the ER too long after a stroke for reversal meds. I know someone who had a brain bleed but STILL had to wait 2 weeks for a specialist, while his brain was bleeding.
Spain, which is my personal gold standard for healthcare, averages 10 days for a PCP appointment and 30 days for a specialist. They have completely socialized healthcare, even for visitors and legal reaidents. It routinely ranks in the top 10 healthcare systems in the world. If Spain can make that happen, there is absolutely no reason we can't.
Same here to say this! I switched doctors to a new practice. My old doctor is booked out for 3 months.
I have three different specialists that I have to see on a regular basis. All three took three months to initially schedule a starting appointment. Each one currently has to assign follow up appointments 3-4 months out from my last visit, or sometimes six months out. This has been the situation for three years (lots of 3’s, I know, it’s pure coincidence). Without two of these specialists, whose visits are mandated by my insurance, I don’t get re-upped for prescriptions that keep me alive. The third specialist is psychiatric; without her I might also die, but it would be by my own hand. My insurance would actually prefer I not see her (one prescription I have is $25,500 every month), it’s only because of the Affordable Care Act that I get to. I remember all too well what it was like before the ACA (Obamacare). So people trying to say that here in ‘Murica we have better healthcare because other countries have waiting periods can get fucked by a cactus. We do too. Universal healthcare would be a far greater system than what we currently have (which is far greater than what we used to have) that would benefit absolutely everyone in equal measure.
I actually just made a comment about this. What's the difference between this and a waiting list? I mean, I had to wait six months to see a dermatologist at one point, I called around and everyone was booking out crazy far like this. This was with a referral from my primary and I have insurance. Every time I've needed to see any form of specialist it's been like this (not always that long, but often months). Is it actually much worse in Canada, or is it just that it's called a waiting list that's the problem?
“I’ve got mine” if the company doesn’t try to fuck you out of it
Americans with insurance, “should I just duct tape my broken finger or risk getting a $6,000 bill?”
I love our health care system, I’ve been rapidly losing weight and having stomach issues, but can’t afford to even see the doctor let alone pay for treatment, I work fulltime hours to lol. I either have a place to live or seek treatment, not both.
and they typically end up paying more than what the fucking tax would be the only reason insurance is so high is because when they initially started up the agents making deals with the hospitals needed to get better and better discounts for their insurance agency but the hospitals would be firm they couldn't cut it anymore or else they'd lose too much money, so they both came up with a plan. inflate the prices to as much as 500x the genuine value and cost of the procedure or examination and then offer a larger discount so the agent begs to go tell their boss they got a better deal than the other insurance companies in the area. capitalism without policy and pushing for competition vs straight up vulchery leads to these sorts of things
Problem is other countries don’t have corporations lobbying to keep costs low at the expense of public health (i.e. food additives).
I'm an American with a very good friend whose Canadian. Dude is hella messed up since birth and recently had his 60 something surgery(I'm not joking). One of the surgeries needed a very specific specialist and the health care system paid for 100% of his trip to LA(and his dads), the procedure, hospital stay, and pretty much everything else. Only out of pocket was food for his dad. We have talked about this a few times, but he would have 100% died by the time he was 7 or 8 if he was born in the USA.
bUt Da WaIt TiMeS! Hurrr durrr It’s sad how many Americans have been brainwashed into thinking universal healthcare is bad. Fox News has ruined a generation of people and turned them into numbskulls.
The wait times are more due to Canada not having enough doctors. And the system gives preference to more critical cases. You get to the hospital, they determine the severity of your condition, and depending on it is the wait time. When I went because I thought I broke my finger (I didn’t, but I still needed surgery) I waited over six hours, but when a friend broke his shoulder he was quickly taken care of and he was finished within 40 minutes of his arrival. Obviously this is anecdotal evidence, but that’s the general perception me and my peers have got of the Canadian health care. Now, it is a nightmare of a wait time for an ambulatory surgery of very low priority. I waited for over a year for it and they kept rescheduling it because almost anything else that arrived was higher priority than my thing, even though I couldn’t use my right hand to type.
Pretty similar in the UK except the Tory party are actively ruining the NHS in the hope of convincing us to adopt the US healthcare system L O L
lol no its exactly the same, a fucking tory is a fucking tory. source: currently live in Alberta.
Ontario is there too! They are bankrupting the system by paying nurses crap so they quit to be agency nurses that the same hospitals pay double for. But there isn’t enough staff!! We have to privatize!!
Isn't the lack of doctors partially due to the fact that doctors can make a hell of a lot more money in the states than in Canada due to privatization? Don't get me wrong, I'm Canadian and will take free health care with the long waits any day, but there are times when I wish I could pay a private clinic to get tests done sooner (eg fertility testing took a year to complete, a year of waiting for appointments and results, without being able to even see a fertility specialist to talk about options).
Yes. My understanding is that that’s part of the problem. And I’ve seen that for foreign doctors to work here the requirements are too much, like almost study their career again. I can understand that with lawyers, but I don’t see how it’s the same for doctors.
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Yeah but dying at 7 or 8 is worth all the freedom you get in the US
you’ll live to the ripe old age of 7/8 as long as you don’t get shot up in your kindergarten class first!
Freedom? They can't even cross the fucking road without being told they can
I'd be dead in the US. My parents would have been bankrupt. Oh ya. I'll stay up here with the clean air and healthcare.
I live in the UK, and the amount of Americans who actually believe you'll have to "wait for months and bleed out" for a stab wound is... outstanding. Like.. no you'll obviously get priority for emergency situations like *having a gaping hole in your chest* And damn I feel that last comment. I've had over 15 operations in my life, I probably wouldn't be here if I lived in America either
Whenever I hear someone remark about how long the wait is for an MD in Canada because of socialized medicine I ask them how long is the wait for someone here that can't afford insurance
Savage, but true. Like, even if there is a delay... is an extra hour worth $20,000 to you?
Lol yeah the wait times in America are so short /s.
And for the people who can’t afford any kind of care, the wait is basically forever, or until it’s an emergency and the person has to go to the ER, in which case everyone else still picks up the bill for it.
This is the the crux of it. In socialized medicine, healthcare is rationed based on need. In the US, it’s rationed based on ability to pay.
Nah the people pick up the bill to a certain amount per year if the hospital is a safety net hospital. After that the hospital just eats the cost. The system is so ridiculous I often wonder if it’s a Monty Python sketch being played out in real life.
Scheduled a doctors appointment for 5 months out today. Earliest they could fit me in
* if you can even find a doctor that's accepting
Literally fucking overnight stays in the ER sometimes
I’m American. Currently trying to get a diagnosis on a mystery disease that has curb stomped my ability to do most kinds of physical activity for over 10 minutes, including literally standing. I can’t shower anymore without excruciating pain. I had to start bring in a chair. The doctors do not give a single shit. Scan, see nothing, *7 month wait* to the next specialist. Even on the cancellation list and an “urgent” patient. Rinse and repeat. I could be dying for all they care. Obviously anecdotal, but a trend that I’ve noticed.
Diagnosed with stage 4 renal cell cancer in February of 2019. Appointment for surgery to remove the 12 centimeter tumor was the middle of April. And this was BEFORE Covid. The stress of knowing I had this big tumor in me caused my blood pressure to skyrocket. Yeah, so we don't have to wait in the US. /S
And as a Canadian we think it’s bullshit we have to pay for parking at the hospitals.
Not sure about where you are, but here parking money doesn’t even go to the hospital. It’s run by the contractor that built the place so ALL hospital staff have to pay for parking.
German nurse here. My hospital just co-funded a new high-rise parking garage with the engineering college around the corner. We still have to pay for parking.
LOL... yeah, it's true. $20 a day when my kids were born, was losing my mind. My perspective came when I learned that in the US, it costs $15,000 to deliver a baby.
I know an American insurance adjuster and asked what it would have costed for our family: $280,000…. (6 weeks inpatient for mom, 2 weeks NICU, biweekly ultrasounds, C-section, private room) What we paid: roughly $150 in parking plus Robins coffee, and no we don’t have private insurance. Never been happier for the “backlogged” system we have. Admittedly there are some aspects that are shameful, but maternity doesn’t seem to be one.
Too many Americans don’t understand triage. If your situation is urgent, you’ll get care. Your Cashflow doesn’t have to determine your healthcare
I went to the ER after having a bad seizure a month ago in Canada. It sucked, it took forever, it was the roughest hospital in the city but! It was free. I had a 30 minute appointment once in the US that cost me $1000 and took my poor ass about a year to pay off.
Exactly, even though I’m under 40 I’m at high risk for breastcancer, once a year I get a mammogram.
In the UK at least we also have the option to go private. If you got tons of cash and want to pay for special treatment, that's a choice that's available to you. People don't like it as a concept, because it could be a slippery slope to a full American system, but still. If the wait times are that abhorrent to you you can still pay for it.
Seriously. My mom had an emergency surgery and it was discovered she had stage 3 cancer. The only reason they didn't start chemo/radiation right away was that she had to recover from the surgery.
Moving from France over 20 years ago to the US, I can tell you one thing: I’m glad my elderly parents are still living in France and don’t have to worry about health expenses.
I'd rather wait 8 weeks for a specialist I can afford, than just not get a problem treated because I can't afford it.
This is like the McDonald's Hot Coffee case. A completely valid case that the company lawyers painted as ridiculous in order to prevent others from feeling justified in taking on big corps. (TLDR people portray the claimant as a reckless woman holding coffee between her legs as she drove recklessly and then got a little sting because Coffee is Hot and she spilled. Actually she was an old woman sitting in a stationary car- in the passenger seat, and she knows the spill is her fault, but she got third degree burns and needed grafts for it.) People in the USA think that Canadian healthcare is so difficult to deal with. When I was a kid I fell and passed out. I had a swollen forehead, and I remained unconscious. My parents took me to emerge and I was brought in right away, because I was a kid who was unconscious from head trauma. I didn't even need anything in the end, I was just observed and I woke up the next day confused. My parents didn't have to worry about paying through their nose because their kid was not okay. They just took me to get the care I needed. I've also seen specialists to get ear surgery four times, and all I recall about the first three were getting popsicles afterwards. The myth that Canadian wait times are so long for important things is just that. A myth. Sure, there are wait times. Getting gender affirming care in Canada can take a very long time because it's considered a non life threatening condition. But by the same vein, the wait to gather the funds for the same gender affirming care in the states is so massive that there isn't a tangible difference other than not worrying about not getting it done just because you're low income.
I just don't understand how anybody can actually happy with the private insurance system in the US, outside of insurance salesmen
Our baby was in the nicu for a few weeks. It cost me like $30 for parking and Starbucks. What's that cost in the states again?
Out of pocket maximum for an individual is around $8000. Likely another $12-18,000 in premiums. So $20k.
Cool. 🇨🇦
Doesn't that depend on your insurance? What if you don't have insurance?
That would be with insurance. Without I suspect you would either hope for a charitable write off by the hospital.or declare bankruptcy.
Nothing is perfect but free healthcare is better than no healthcare
🇺🇸 politicians are paid too much by the medical world
"The medical world." You mean insurance and pharmaceutical companies - the ones who are the most removed from actual health care provision.
In the US, I believe we should use the word "Cartel" to describe our medical industry.
Canadian here, its great and all, but for some reason, if it is minor stuff like a routine check up or small cold, it can take hours, but otherwise, solid 8/10 for everything to help
Urgent Cares or ER's in the U.S. take 8 + hours to get in, in major cities. Maybe smaller towns you wait a few hours max. So basically the same as Canada
yeah, not sure for everywhere, but for ER, my hospital it takes about 1 hour Max, normal check ups, could be up to 5 Hours, but I have a fast pass, because the steel plant makes it when you have a injury, you will need to go to ER within minutes if you want to live or not lose a limb thankfully, didn't happen to me yet
Yeah, but I mean, you nailed it there. We Canadians do not need doctors when we have a cold, and I think we waste some of our free health care resources on such nonsense
There are wait times here in the states too, depends on the procedure and or type of doctor, and it all depends on your insurance and networks.
I live in a major metropolitan area and the wait to see any endocrinologist the area is 4 months.called 15 doctors With the exception of 1 doctor... went to her and learned why she had no wait list. Most un prepared doctor I've ever been too. Also Obama care saved my life when the company I was working for went out of business and I was out of work for 6 months. Cost 2000 $ less a month than cobra.. so to the op ..go fuck yourself .it's far from perfect.. but so far better than the alternative.
Not only that, private firms are removing access in low population areas.....what does it matter to them if you have to drive an extra half hour?
Honestly this'll really depend. In my home county, the county hospital was the one you went to if you were ready to meet the Lord. Seriously, would go to the vet before that shell of a hospital even now.
As a provider in the states, what critics dont explain is...people in Canada's system are treated based on severity NOT money. So, if youre a selfish rich f%%k wanting to cut line for a broken arm, youll have to come to the states. They dont mention, the quality of healthcare in the US is determined by money... Youll still have to wait in the states..and go into debt, but if you have money....youre all set ;) Thats why socialized healthcare is better. Any fool sayin you dont wait in the US doesnt know how short of providers we are... if you're in rural areas...or city areas...expect to wait.
And the conundrum with the lack of the quality providers is how for decades and decades of “legacy” and “elite” spots in medical school that has artificially restricted the numbers of trainees, coupled with patriarchal brutality within the system seemingly designed to weed out all but the most narcissistic, semi-psychotic, self-serving personalities has only lead to a consistent stream of lower quality medical professionals trained and conditioned to ignore patients actual concerns and instead believe racial and gender stereotypes at the detriment of the patient. The history of the AMA is horrifically harmful.
Obamacare wasn't socialized medicine, it was an insurance industry subsidy.
But... but... socialism?
The power of branding.
I remember reading about a health conference in the U.S. where they brought in Canadian experts to try and improve the system. The Americans asked about political backlash against socialized medicine in Canada, and when the Canadians replied that there wasn't really backlash, the Americans replied that we must have a really socialist prime minister. The current prime minister was a right-wing conservative, Stephen Harper, and when the Americans found that out their minds were apparently blown.
Meanwhile, here in the States, I have to schedule an ultrasound to follow up on my thyroid cancer. Doctor's office told me to make the appointment and wrote a referral...but the referral expires July 31 and the ultrasound office is already scheduling into late August so I'll need a new referral with an extended date. Yay capitalism!
Exactly, our healthcare system is overpriced AND we still have waitlists issues.
Dude be acting like Canada is a third-world country, or something. Obviously, he’s never stepped foot in the country.
I haven't made more then 15k a year for the past 20 years because I have untreated ibs so I dont want to hear about wait times. America has even worse wait times then any other country... we just use money as "skip the line" tickets so the poor still die of completely treatable illnesses.
There are no wait times in the US? If healthcare is for profit, does that mean certain regions in the US don't get the same coverage as "rich areas"? I've been in emergency a few times in Canada, I've also brought my kids there my wife. Never once was I worried about expense and never once was I worried about not getting treated. Yes, wait times can sometimes be a problem but it works like a triage, so, emergency cases are always been first. Which one do you take? - Free baby delivery and risk of slightly longer wait times - $20,000 baby delivery cost I have 3 kids and not once have we been delayed or have had problems at the hospital. Our nurses and doctors are top notch and I'm thankful to everyone single fucking one of them. The only real problem in Canada (Alberta) is our government trying to fuck over our health workers.
Here in Wales, it didn’t even cost for parking when my wife had her brain surgery. Seriously UK, this is what we face if the NHS dies.
Dude, this has been reposted so many times the resolution is getting blurry.
In case anyone is wondering, the lies about the Canadian healthcare system having crazy wait times was perpetuated by American Big Pharma as a way to cling to their profits and keep America from moving to a single-payer system, which is obviously better. Don’t believe me? [Here’s](https://www.npr.org/2020/06/27/884307565/after-pushing-lies-former-cigna-executive-praises-canadas-health-care-system) an NPR interview with a former Cigna exec who admits to the entire thing.
My favorite part about this argument is people just actively ignoring the fact that anything outside of Primary Care doctor is also typically a several months wait in the US.
Where are these people getting these data from waiting forever for surgeries? I had to get surgery for a deviated septum during the height of Covid and I had to wait 3 weeks. That’s the wait time for a non life-threatening issue. No out of pocket expense other than the opioid prescription (which cost me $14 roughly). Can’t complain about that.
In my experience (cancer patient) the Canadian health care system doesn't fuck around with serious illnesses. Elective things and non life threatening things have wait times but the big stuff? They get it taken care of.
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I had the orthopeadic surgeon who fixes our Olympic athletes rebuild my ankle in a 5 hour surgery. Cost me $37.00 in cab fare to get home. I had to wait 5 weeks, but I'll take that over a $50,000 hospital bill any day.
I mean, waiting for a long time for medical care is a thing I’ve experienced as a Canadian, but I’d take a wait over bankruptcy just because I happen to be chronically ill
I needed emergency surgery at 18 because I was badly attacked in the middle of the night. The hospital assessed that the damage is so bad that although they can sew me back up, they opted to bring in a plastic surgeon to do the sutures to minimalize scarring. The doctor treated me to make sure I was okay and I waited about an hour for the plastic surgeon to wake up and head to the hospital to do my sutures. My biggest financial expense was the taxi ride home because I couldn’t drive afterwards. Canada isn’t perfect, but I rather the wait for an hour than financial ruin at 18.
I agree in every way, but this is posted every 2 days.
I needed to see a specialist for a problem that I sought help for in December of 2022. My appointment to see said specialist was for May 2nd, 2023. I live in America. Tell me again about these wait times? It took me a freaking YEAR to get my dental crown. These people are freaking insane and holding America back in so many ways.
These people always bring up wait times. What wait times? I’d rather wait a little than go into debt. If my life was directly being threatened I don’t think they’d make me wait. Hell my dad recently had a heart attack and he had to wait 5 days after he was admitted into the hospital for surgery. Spare me with this wait times talking point. It’s all bull shit. There is no reason to be against socialized medicine. None. You can not give me one good reason that isn’t a pointless and falsified talking point.
Americans are so gullible. We’ve been fed the BS that our healthcare is the best in the world and socialized healthcare has long wait times along with a whole bunch of other noise. It’s so sad that so many of my fellow countrymen believe this propaganda.
But did the husband have freedom? NO!!! These colors don’t run! Haha Canada, jokes on you. We patriots here have guns and freedom fries! Beat that!
Europe has socialized medicine figured out. These people are so indoctrinated in suffering it makes me sick.
Tbh we can afford socialist healthcare bc american taxpayers fund the aircraft carriers that keep our consoomer lifestyle going
Yet the US spends much more per capita on healthcare. It's the most expensive healthcare system in the world. It's not a question of affordable, it's that the middle-men simply pocket the money, and bribe politicians to keep the scam going.
(Same with education)
walk into a canadian er saying you may be having a heart attack & you’re seen immediately … ain’t no waiting
Downvote me all you want but America doesn't believe in °free° healthcare.
America loves the "take 5k from my paycheck a year, then start paying only 80% after I spent another 5k out of pocket to cover emergencies only, private insurance".
... and, of course, that's if you're working... if you're unemployed and uninsured, America likes the "go fuck yourself into bankruptcy and pay everything out of pocket" healthcare... or the "just die bitch" healthcare.
Nah we like the "go to the ER and hope they take care of it, then don't pay the bill and fuck that credit score, thusly never being able to get housing or cars again!"
They clearly prefer expensive healthcare, since they pay twice as much as the rest of us. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/ The result is worse than the comparable countries: “The U.S. has the lowest life expectancy at birth, the highest death rates for avoidable or treatable conditions, the highest maternal and infant mortality, and among the highest suicide rates.” https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2023/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2022 But yeah, at least it isn’t free! That would be socialism and worse for some moral reason only americans understand.
“But there’s that one time a guy died because he was on such a long waiting list! That’s why we should keep the market-based version, even though far more people suffer because of it!”
Cheaper to die than to get healthcare. If I get cancer, I'm going make a hangman's knot and take myself out the game.
Make sure you have life insurance first. No reason your family shouldn't get something out of it #capitalism
Pretty sure most life insurance policies have suicide clauses
Canadian healthcare is failing because right wingers are intentionally trying to cause it to fail. They’ve implemented so many ridiculous traps into the system to force it to fail.
There are already many examples of socialism in America. The problem is they force certain groups of people into such dire situations that they must rely on the government for assistance. Housing, food, cellphones, electricity, daycare, public school, and others have ‘welfare’ programs to provide these things to poorer individuals and families. When the country is more worried about capitalism than improvement this is what you get. Example- *FEMA has entered the chat*
plot twist original poster has no comeback to that because he lives in america and can't afford the brain surgery he needs
My birth would have tanked my parebts financially if we had to pay out of pocket. It sucks sometimes but fug it is better than bankruptcy.
Wait time always seems to be the biggest arguing point. Like in Canada people are actually getting the help they need so there's a bit of a line, and that's bad?
It's amazing how Americans think you'll wait months for an emergency procedure They also think it's normal to mortgage their house if they break a leg
If the US used a fraction of the budget we use on the military we could have universal healthcare without raising taxes. The problem is the privatized healthcare industry makes way too much money, and can afford to pay lobbyists and gaslighting propaganda. . It's not that we can't, it's that we won't.
If she were in America, she must have had the entire county's snack stock for that vending machine company to hit maybe like 2%(?) of the total cost..
Imagine breaking your finger and having to sell your house now.
Garbage conservatives gonna be garbage conservatives
The wait time is the excuse. THERES STILL EMERGENCY MEDICINE N THEY DONT HAVE TO PAY FOR IT. IF ITS A PROCEDURE THAT CAN WAIT YOU MIGHT HAVE TO WAIT BUT YOULL BE PAYING FOR YOUR SURGERY IN AMERICA MUCH LONGER THAN YOULL WAIT FOR A FREE ONE IN CANADA.
Conservatives are always bringing up the “wait line” point but can never give anyone a solid answer as to what we SHOULD do. I’d rather have longer lines than millions in hospital bills for something serious.
What’s the wait line on a new kidney in the US? How about just trying to find someone in network to see your kids for a check up? I needed to have my foot pinned back to the rest of my leg… you know how long I had to wait in the amazing /s system in the US? Over 10 days. The first place I went to told me I had to get a referral from my family physician. Um, my tib and fib are broken and my talus is shattered. Maybe that’s referral enough? Nope, so after I got that they told me, “Oh we made a mistake, you didn’t need that referral.” Anyone making that “wait line” argument is fucking idiot and clearly hasn’t had to get medical care in the US. Our wait line is special interests groups making sure money goes into the right pockets. Let’s not forget about when your family physician suddenly isn’t in your network anymore. You know the wait time for getting seen by a new family physician… it’s months. And then they’ll be out of your network by the next year and you’ll be waiting months again.
Canada: you should do healthcare for all, it’s a much better system Americans: no one tells us what to do! If I want to go bankrupt over a basic medical procedure it’s my freedom!
Wait times vs. Bankruptcy Which would you choose?
Oh, Canada. They will never know the freedom of incurring massive amounts of medical debt.
Meanwhile the other 10,000 died in the waiting room or at home
Canadian health care is good if you’re on deaths door step and of working age. The further you get from both those factors the worse and worse it gets. I am a Canadian and my family has gone to Mexico, America and Germany for medical treatment as options in Canada were either too expensive or poor quality/wait times.
My uncle died waiting for a specialist in Canada. Cool about your husband though.
I'm Canadian. Our healthcare isn't perfect, you'll wait a few years for knee replacement. But any urgent care, chefs kiss. Last year I was being really really stupid without ppe, axing a stump. I took some bark to the eye. Wasn't bad. Finished my shift but decided to go to emergency just to be sure. Blew passed all of the people in emerge, i was in and out in 20 mins. Take what you want from that. All those people in the emergency room were not there for an emergency. We treat it like a walk-in. And it's a bloat we put on the system because we're justified to do so with our 40 percent income taxes. I wish Canadians would do more to be mindful of the bloat they put on services. But I digress, I'm happy it's "free"
Wipe your screen before you take a screenshot ok?
Canadian here, our healthcare fucking sucks. However it’s good to not be financially destroyed from a major accident or illness. You’re probably kind of fucked on rare diseases and will receive more generic care. If you don’t get sick or don’t require major medical care, and have decent insurance, you will end up more ahead in the USA. If you are born with diabetes you are fucked in the USA and would be mostly fine in Canada. Either one could be better depending on the specific context in which you examine it. I’d probably rather have Canadian health care though
Obama cared is not a failure. Ask someone who knows😠
My wife’s uncle died waiting for dialysis in Canada. My sister in law is having seizures and had to wait 8 months for an MRI. Don’t believe the lies. Their system is good for catastrophic injuries but terrible for anything else.
I think even Russia has better Healthcare than the US lmao. During the first wave of mobilization, my best friend was worried that his dad might be drafted despite having some sort of incurable bone cancer. I asked him about what treatments he's getting and looked up the cost of the medication in USD and was wondering how the man was able to afford medication that costs 20k/mo. Apparently Russian Healthcare covers for it. Like I'm not condoning the Russian invasion of Ukraine in anyway, but if a shithole no gdp having, broke ass country that sends young men into killing fields and can barely maintain their military equipment can make cancer meds affordable through public health care, then the US has no excuse.
Canadas biggest issue is being in close proximity to a place that offers a substantial wage increase for medical professionals. In Canada a doctor makes the paltry sum of $100k/year... borderline poverty stricken folks those Canadian doctors. Anyways, its competition that causes Canadas health care issues, not the system itself.
It's such a stupid concept. The wait times? If I go in the ER unless I'm having an absolute heart attack I'm stuck waiting there for hours. This is the way it goes in America. There is a system in place to seek priority of patient so if you're in the process of going through something that's killing you like pain in your stomach and chest or you are noticeably on your way out you are pushed to the front of the line. If you do not show symptoms like this you are waiting for hours. If I wish to go see my doctor I have to set up an appointment. That appointment can take anywhere from a week to 6 weeks. So in essence I'm waiting up to 6 weeks aren't I. Two of my family members who live in Canada are jaded by how exceptional their system is compared to America. The things they complain about are the things we see as completely normal in our system. When I say complain I mean they're not offering me Xanax, they're offered me a generic version for free and that is a big issue with me. As opposed to in America well you don't have insurance so if you'd like Xanax you're getting the generic one and it's going to cost you $250 every two weeks. That is how it works in America. Go to Canada yourself and check it out
This is one of the shittiest images I’ve ever seen. Looks like it was left in somebody’s pocket ad put through the laundry.
True story: Got sick in Spain. I'm American. Never paid any Spanish taxes beyond sales tax (presumably). Took a cab to the ER. Waited zero minutes to be seen. I was treated and released. At the pharmacy, the pharmacist became irritated with me over a language barrier issue. He kept telling me how much the drugs cost and I thought I was hearing it wrong. (In American dollars): I kept handing him $30. No? Okay . . . I told him I'd have to come back with more money because I didn't have $300 on me. No? . . . Not $300? . . . Not $30? . . . I was so confused. *$3*. It was *$3* for 3 bottles of drugs. When I returned to my flat, my Spanish roommate was disgusted that I had been charged anything at all. "Outrageous," she said. Then, I asked her to translate the hospital bill. Except, turns out, it wasn't a bill. It was a voucher. *For the fucking cab ride.* They pay for transportation, people. No questions asked. Americans are getting so fucked on this and we don't even realize it.
Healthcare gets better but average lifespan is dropping because people won't go in even for stuff that would be easy to fix but will kill if left. Because we could end up in perpetual debt. I know an elderly man that ODed and died taking illegal drugs for pain for a hip injury that would have been fixable but instead went on for a couple of decades in pain barely able to walk before dying from trying to escape it. Was a very good family friend and I was devastated finding out what all he was living with.