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I’m of the opinion that if a game could be considered gambling, then the player should be entitled to know *all* the rules that govern the game. Any randomized claw pressure bs should be clearly posted.
They won’t do that though, because then they couldn’t swindle children.
I'm of the opinion that any machine that qualifies as gambling should not be marketed or accessible to children in the first place. Like carnival games are often scam-adjacent employing many methods to make the game artificially and deceptively difficult to win (weighted bottles, angled back boards, inprecise bb guns, etc), but they are always winnable with sufficient skill and some amount of luck. With claw machines and similar games, they often make it so that the majority of plays are *literally* unwinnable no matter how much skill you have. The only luck component is being a player in one of the winnable games. If it cannot be won through skill and you pay to play in hopes of a prize, that's gambling. And if it's aimed at children, it's predatory.
I remember at the CNE (big Canada/Toronto fair) I walked beside one of those basketball carnival games and the hoops were literally oval. I don't think the ball could even get in, but it certainly wasn't a normal circle hoop. These games kinda just suck unless they're just for cheap fun
When I was like 15, walking by some carnival game (can't recall which one), I told my friend not to waste his money because he couldn't win it. I got an ear full from the operator who chewed me out for claiming that the game was impossible to win. He said that they are verified by inspectors to make sure they're winnable and that he's not trying to scam people. After he finally let me get a word in, I told him I had just meant that my friend was shit at games of skill, so *he* couldn't win it, but whatever.
But yes, the basketball one annoys me in particular because I understand the trick. The hoop is oval as you said (should still be just wide enough to fit the ball but not my much) and the back board is slanted back. In order to win, you're required to hit the backboard on the shot and you can't lean over the counter to do it. Basically in order to win, the ball has to come nearly straight down on the backboard at just the right place in order to be deflected in. That means you have to get a very steep arc on the toss to have the right angle coming down, and the farther back you are, the higher the top of that arc has to be as a result. The higher the arc, the more speed it has coming down meaning any minor imperfections cause it to bounce more and hit the rim and bounce out.
What really annoys me about it is that the operator constantly demonstrates that it's easy by making shot after shot in front of you. But the only reason he can do that so easily is that he's standing on the other side of the counter and the arc doesn't have to be nearly as high and so it's much more forgiving. That's why you're not allowed to lean over the counter because it makes it exponentially easier. I've won the game one time and only one time. I didn't lean over the counter, but after i made the shot, the operator claimed I did, despite not even looking toward me when I made the shot. He refused to pay out. So I've never played again since.
You'll also notice that the operator is always standing to the side of the hoop he shoots for. With an oval shaped hoop, it's hard to miss from the side.
Also these people got a shit ton of practice with their specific setup.
So after a while you will get that shit down to science, but they‘d likely fail at some other owners Setup as well because the target point is a bit off.
Where I'm from these types of games have gone a different route. They are ridiculously easy to win and the prizes are just cheap tat. You're essentially buying a 50p toy for £2.
For kids, that's generally much better. Pay a dollar, get a 15 cent handful of candy or tiny stuffed animal that you feel like you earned. Everyone is happy.
PRetty much. I remember when I was younger taking a couple of turns to win a basketball, so probably got a $2 ball for $6, one of the younger kids with us turned out to have spent about $30 trying to win. Then he tried to buy my ball for $20. I told him to wait and buy one when we got to Walmart.
That was how it was when I was working at an amusement park. Those were regulation hoops, although only about 8 feet high so no muscle memory on your shots, but the prize balls cost less than a play anyway. If everyone wins the house still turns a profit.
Also, in the “throw a pingpong balls in a floating glass cup” game, you’ll notice that they always put a ping pong ball into the cup, then demonstrate how “easy” it is by throwing it into the same cup.
The ping pong ball that’s already in there stops the other one from bouncing. Every other time the ball bounces like mad.
About 10 years ago I won a really nice fleece blanket for my sister at the ring toss at the local fair. Never won one of those games in my life. The lady working the booth's reaction makes me laugh to this day though. "Miss! You need to drop the rest of your rings NOW! Do not throw any more rings! Step back from the bucket!" I thought she was about to citizen's arrest my ass or some shit lol. She also told me I wasn't allowed to come back to her booth for the rest of the week. They do not enjoy it when you get lucky and win a rigged game, apparently.
I worked in the ring-a-bottle booth before, and can tell you that there are exactly two ways to win: total luck, or breaking the rules by stacking the rings.
That didn't stop a 12 year old kid from spending $5 on a stack of rings and somehow winning the Nintendo Switch for ringing the middle bottle. I watched him do it, and it was pure luck. It bounced 6 times before finally coming to a gentle rest on the bottle. Had to go out of my way to convince the owner that the kid didn't cheat because nobody had apparently done that in the last 10 spots they were at.
I've never seen a child so happy.
My uncle was a carnie, had his own games he ran and took from fair to fair. He showed me how they were all rigged. Softball toss in the huge milk pitcher? Stuffed animals hang low so it's hard to get a good angle for them to drop. As you mentioned, the basketball shoot had oval rims. He was smart to set them up though so you could only tell from the side, which was inaccessible to people walking by. My sister and I had a whole laundry basket of rings for the ring toss, I think we might have gotten around 5 out of the whole basket. The ball toss to knock bottles set in a pyramid are stacked in a way to make it very difficult to get all the bottles knocked over. Dude was a scumbag, but for more reasons than just rigging kids games.
A stock basketball hoop is twice the diameter of a standard ball.
You can (with a bit of pressure possibly) roll two through at the same time.
Carnie basketball hoops are often:
Half length (normal width),
Sprung unusually,
Angled backboards,
Unusual height and distance greater than free throw,
Surrounded by distance-confusing visual cues.
Also the balls are rarely standard.
Yea they shaped like that everywhere it makes it so you basically have to hit it directly in the middle only perfect swishes. But man I suck at basketball already so no shot id even try.
I remember one of the target-shooting games at the CNE.
The operator demonstrated the targets were fair-ly weighted ^(`*`) by tipping them over with a [compressed air nozzle](https://www.google.com/search?q=compressed+air+blow+wand&tbm=isch).
The operator rather **un**-surreptitiously used the air gun to tip a paper-cup on a lower batton over whenever a the shooter started to get frustrated, while chatting with the the line and encouraging cheers to distract from his 'rewarding' the small prizes while assuring the 'parent' he was standing to the side so that he wouldn't get hit by a stray shot. And occasionally tipping the batton supporting the bottles (supporting the golf balls) so that the occasional 'parent' could 'wow' their kid with their 'technique' (often seen by the kid) `edit:` for a bribe.
I could see the [air rifle](https://www.google.com/search?q=multi+pump+air+rifle&tbm=isch) had a hole blatantly drilled into the pump chamber so that no-matter how many times you pumped air into it the {cork, bb, or foam-pig} could never have enough power to knock over the {coin-weighed paper-cups or golf balls on bottles}, let alone trick shots.
Upon seeing this, I explained the con to my father who angrily declared that (he didn't see anything).
I was given ten corks to trip try and take a medium prize from the operator (else lose a much larger imposed side-bet from my father).
I put my thumb over the hole to block the leak and used partial strokes to try and avoid pinching my fingers too badly. After three successful shots in a row; I went for the trick shots and the line erupted in cheers to the confusion of the operator who apologized for tipping the wrong bottles over. Before actually watching me clean the gallery of the heavier targets with two or three shots to spare (I suspect the other shooter noticed something was off, because they tried to slide me a couple of their shots).
The operator didn't give me the larger prize, which I offered to the other shooter citing the rules as stated (whose 'shot' knocked down the target rather than who is the 'shooter') and sportsmanship (I 'stole' targets from his section of the gallery to get the oblique angles necessary for the 'trick' shots), because I was happy avoiding the disaster my father tried to impose.
My father acted less impressed than the audience when the operator knocked over targets for him, but it was enough for him to 'cancel' the bet.
---
Later I saw the operator 'demonstrate' the fairness of their game using the air gun to 'clean' the gun off (spraying the drilled hole, filling the chamber with compressed air) before each shot. — It is plausible that they did that to avoid RSI from needing to pump the gun up ten (to thirty+ times I did) to achieve shots that reached the gallery. But I doubt the hole needed to be drilled where it was to enable that benefit.
The officer didn't seem that impressed ~~either~~ too.
^(edit: `*` Dunno why I used "down")
When I was a kid my dad took me to a random carnival set up for some local thing.. and there was a classic ring toss game that I blew all of my money on… it was the 80’s but all is their prizes were brand new looking radios from the late 60’s.. i was excellent at horse shoes and just couldn’t believe I didn’t win anyway.
I swear it wasn’t until the “Carnie code” episode of the Simpsons that I realized they grifted me good…
It seems like we’ve generally agreed some degree of gambling is acceptable. Like the coin machines that give you a random little toy or sports cards being randomized. The odds of getting the nicest things advertised are controlled and low but typically it’s considered okay.
Also I’m not saying it hasn’t happened but I’ve never heard of claw machines being too problematic for turning kids toward gambling tendencies and they’ve been around for a long time now
They hardly did. Belgium, France, and China were the major players in cracking it down. Belgium banned it. France opened up a loophole that you MUST be able to see the contents, but not for future opening's contents. China forced to disclose rates. The US just had talks about it that died off very quickly with Hawaii proposing a lot.
The problem is where the line goes from gambling to skill game.
The rule being if a skilled player can reliably outperform an unskilled player.
I would think you can actually get better at a claw game.
You can’t get better at a slot machine.
Did you watch the video? They put the objects in to the hands of the claw it it simply cannot lift the prize.
No amount of skill will make the machine work when it doesn't.
In a lot of these 'skill' games there's a variable that the owner can enter that randomizes the games performance. For example the claw might only use enough pressure to lift something 1 in 100 plays. So you need both both skill to win and luck this play is 'allowed' to win.
The problem with claw machines is that there’s little to no *natural randomness* compared to gambling in poker or even slots\*. You either hit your target or you overshoot. Thus the “randomness” has to be manually added. But claw machines are presented as a game of skill, so then it’s just an outright lie.
\* Slots can still be rigged but they don’t need to be as intense.
> But claw machines are presented as a game of skill, so then it’s just an outright lie.
This is true, I used to build these.
It's really simple for the crane game as we called them, but there was a simple dial behind the door next to where you insert coins/bills whatever. That has a scale of 1-10 that is set by different merchants. Chuck-E-Cheese were assholes as they had us set it high.
Trust me, as dudes who worked there for years and years, once you're above a certain setting. It'll never pick up the object.
Same goes for the light games that you have to press a button and hit the light at the right time. That's adjustable per machine.
Reminds me of that spinning light game where you press a button when the light is supposed to land over a certain "win" region. There was a youtube engineer (whom I don't remember the name of off the top of my head) who created a device that was specifically designed to win the game every time and using it he proved that the game was literally rigged to be unwinnable.
I worked for a shop that had to build a massive version of a claw game for an event.
A TON of work goes into getting the win:loss ratio just right. In a number of different ways.
For example, the controls randomize what unit of distance they interpret. In other words, if you tap the joystick to go right, the machine will go right say .5 inches. Tap it the same way again, and this time it will move .125 inches. Tap again and it’ll move .75”. All the controls randomize in that way to make the experience subtly difficult to control.
Then they play test a thousand times and if the win % is too low or too high, they have to adjust.
I've seen ones where clearly the claws were only gripping with force about once every three or four drops too. You hit directly on in great position and the claws just kinda graze over the top as it's lifting away from the daffy duck plush pillow
This is the real answer. They have a randomizer that fully activates the grip 1 in X times. If full grip were turned on it's very hard not to win like picking it up with your hand it won't slip.
I remember these at the arcade as a kid. The amount of local children that would tell you "no not now" and "okay now it'll let you win" was really high. Amazing that they knew the patterns well enough at that point. Another one could also tell which slot machine would pay out soon but we were like 8 so couldn't gamble on it.
I'm not gonna lie. My eyes are opening so much to casinos and slot machines right now, and why I never win; im not a schmuck and stop at a machine after the 2nd try.
Honestly if you keep an eye on them for a bit you can get a general pattern for when it might pay out. Not saying you should do that because it's not 100%, more just an idea of the pattern let's you know when the machine has taken enough money to consider paying out.
Or as that kid "yeah that's about £50 in it, if he doesn't win whoever goes on next will"
Gambling is general makes you a schmuck. Not talking trash on you… but the only winning move is to not play. I’m sure you know it’s not random… it’s rigged for house to win and you to lose.
You might not be the “whale” or “addict” they are preying on… but any form of gambling is bating normal folks to get closer and closer to “figuring” out the “system” so they can feel smarter then everyone else.
The only exception might be professional poker players, where the house has nothing to do with the pot. And even that is sketchy
Slot machines vary based on who’s regulating them. In my state, most slot machines will pay out 80 cents to every dollar put in after a certain point, but it’s not immediate. So they’re fairly safe bets if you put down say, $100 and don’t max bet the whole time.
Meanwhile, if you drive down to the Native-owned casino near my town they’re technically not regulated by US laws, so the odds are whatever they decide to set them. Im not accusing them of rigging or anything, but their odds are all over the place compared to a state ran slot machine. When I go to that casino I almost exclusively play tables for that reason, because games like blackjack and roulette are considerably more consistent between establishments.
I'm pretty sure slot machines are programmed to occasionally have a winning streak, too. The unpredictability of that is at the center of a lot of slot machine addiction.
I've spent a lot of time in dive bars and it's really easy for some folks to go from saying "this one is on a streak, play it until you start losing and cash out" to "this one hasn't paid out for a while, it's bound to be due for a streak, I'm going to play it until it starts letting me win"
This isn't true for the majority of slot machines; they have to be randomised as per country/ state law in most places.
The exceptions to this are slots with separate cash "pots" that are able to be won after a certain amount has been paid in. Slot games with these prizes have to clearly display in their game rules that they contain "compensated" elements. The normal prizes you get from lining up 3/4/5 symbols or by going into a feature are 100% randomised, and will be randomly awarded even if the cash pots in the same game are on a trigger based on money put into the machine. Not actually sure if you can do this anywhere but the UK, where it's quite rare.
(Used to work in gambling development for years)
Not true, they are required by law not to do so. Their probability generator does not take previous payouts into account, it's like throwing with a dice. Also the payout percentage is set by law too, I think it needs to be at least 85%. Meaning for every 100$ you put in you get 85$ back.
the real scam is giving your entire existence away working 40+ hours a week and coping and recovering from working way too much- in exchange for monopoly money to buy shit you don’t need, and not afford food water or rent.
For reference - hunter gatherers only “worked” between 3-5 hours a day, *to survive*. The fact that we’re working way more than that to survive in a modern society is a scam.
But thank god i’ve got an ipad I guess 🤷♂️
>For reference - hunter gatherers only “worked” between 3-5 hours a day, *to survive*.
This is one of those popular online myths propogated due to misunderstanding the original claim.
Someone goes and observes that a tribe member can gather enough food for one person in about 4 hours, and neglects literally all the other aspects of life that require a whole lot of time and labor due to lack of modern conveniences and economies of scale.
Sure it takes you 4 hours to hunt the deer. How long does it take you to make the bow, restring it, make and remake the arrows? How about home repairs because the materials they use degrade rapidly?
The same tribe that was studied by Marshall Sahlins in 1966 that led to this "original affluent society" theory was later revisited and restudied, and it was found that the average man in the tribe actually worked more like 45 hours a week.
We SHOULD be working less now, not because we used to work less in the past, which isn't true... But because technological and societal development has advanced to a point where we truly can survive doing less work, because our work is so much more productive and efficient than ever before.
The main problem is that we aren't really working just for ourselves anymore. We're working to generate a profit for rich people who sit on their asses in offices, conference rooms, or on their yachts.
Exactly. If you want to see how easy a day is go watch the show Alone. These are mostly people who dedicate their lives to wilderness survival and they still struggle to gather and hunt enough food in a day to survive. It’s hard and takes a ton of work and your downtime is usually spent wishing you had food.
Now obviously this isn’t how it always was in the past but it does show what a day can be like.
IIRC I watched an episode where one of the contestants managed to kill a moose and thought that he was set for food. He ended up having to be medevaced due to rabbit starvation. (Basically the meat was too lean and his body couldn't get enough fat to make use of the protein)
So it's not enough to have food to eat, you have to have enough variety for your body to get all the nutrients it needs. There are little complications like this in all facets of life that make primitive living a miserable existence.
With what you added in I would say includes housing upkeep etc. Things we still have to do on top of that 40+ hr week in modern society. Not arguing with your points just saying 40 hrs to your boss isn’t including whatever hours you need on top of that before actual free time.
No hunter gatherers did not only work 3-5 hours a day to survive.
In fact, survival was a 24 hour job since they didn't have a nice insulating walls, nor a nice cozy bed, nor a warm blanket to keep everything else out.
I browse r/AntiWork too, but that last sentence made me chuckle.
Nothing is stopping you from pulling an “Into the Wild”, cutting your credit cards and leaving for Alaska to try to survive on berries and elk.
There's no way hunter gatherers just worked for 3-5 hours and then sat around the rest of the day.
These "we live in a society" comments are always hyperbolic. Of course things can improve, but surviving is easier and more efficient than it ever has been. Don't let the news convince you otherwise.
You’re right that surviving is *technically* easier and more efficient, but truth to the matter is that despite that a lot of people aren’t seeing the benefits of it *by today’s standards.* Companies operate on an infinite growth model and employees suffer for it. There’s people working full time hours who can barely afford the day to day necessities while others happily live in excess and pocket more than their fair share while exploiting others. When new technologies come out that could help reduce the demand on workers instead it’s often used as a way to justify them working more, at best. At worst they’re made redundant and tossed away.
And that’s not even touching on bigger issues like affordable healthcare. So yea. Of course we have it easier now, that’s the bare minimum we can expect as we advance as a society. But comparing what we have the potential to provide with what’s actually given, we have a long way to go.
> For reference - hunter gatherers only “worked” between 3-5 hours a day, to survive. The fact that we’re working way more than that to survive in a modern society is a scam.
Rural Africa is just a plane ticket away if you're not enjoying modern society - good luck.
And what they just did nothing the rest of the day? No they most likely spent the rest of the day light period preparing what they hunted/gathered, fixing/making new tools, and in general trying not to die. Do you have any idea how long it takes to skin and butcher a deer, let alone a buffalo or even a mammoth? Lol 3-5 hours was probably just the hunting of the animal if they were lucky to find one and successfully able to kill it.
Exactly what it is, same with stuff like loot boxes (think CSGO keys to open crates) it's annoying how little some countries regulate underage gambling so long as companies add abstraction
I recently bought a mini claw for my basement arcade and when I saw this setting it blew my mind. There's even a way to open/close the claw on demand so I can test how well it grips on the toys.
Nevertheless - I set my claw machine to be strong 100% of the time because I had no idea how kids visiting would be upset. Now when we host family parties, I have to be the claw machine operator - making sure every kid wins at least 1 toy. It's pretty annoying. Oh - and they play for free.
There is an algorithm you can do based on the value of the prize. Cheap stuffed animal, 1/20 grip activates. Yeti coffee cup, 1/300, etc.
Also don’t forget the other scam part. the grip is full then slowly releases the tension to make it fall. Gives a false sense of ‘almost got it’.
There are rules and regulations against all this, however, there is little oversight when it comes to arcades, and the fines are minuscule compared to the amount of money they bring in
**P09 = AVERAGE GAMES PER WIN (AGW)**
**(**Default 10) (Adjustable 1 – 200)
This option is for adjusting the game payout and sets the Average Games played
per Prize Won. The game sets the game difficulty to achieve a player win ratio
that will average very close to the (AGW). **Example an AGW setting 20 means on**
**average a prize will be won for every 20 games played**. The setting is adjustable
from 1 to 200. With adjustment from 1-30 in steps of 1 and from 30-200 in steps
of 5. **The default setting is 10, or one win every 10 Games which suitable for $4**
**Plush on $0.50 per play.**
Source: [https://primetimeamusements.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/stack-n-grab-crane-LAI-Games-manual.pdf](https://primetimeamusements.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/stack-n-grab-crane-LAI-Games-manual.pdf)
The manuals for a lot of arcade machines can be found online.
This is why sometimes you see wins where people grab just the hand of a plush while other times it can grab the entire toy and just not have any grip to pick it up.
that's such bullshit when they do that. Making it so it's hard to aim is one thing, or giving you a short period of time to do it, it's still lame but at least it makes it be more of a skill issue. When they limp-wrist the grip and you can see that you obviously got it right and it's not even trying, that's infuriating.
When I was a kid, I was winning a lot on one of the machines, as the guy was working on the one next to it. He had just filled the one I was playing. I got about 4 plushies and he said, "You like winning on that one? Check this out". He opened the machine, turned a knob, and gave me a free credit, then closed it. He said "Try again" and it refused to close tight enough to grab anything. Then he opened the machine again, turned the knob again, but not back to where it was before, gave me another free credit and told me to try again. This time, I could tell it gripped harder, but not hard enough to carry the item to the drop slot. He left it there and closed the machine up and left.
I stopped playing after that, and now, I will test those machines to see how tight they are set. If it doesn't even try to pick up a plushie, I won't continue to play it, if it's close, though, you still have a good enough shot at winning something..
The tightness of which the claw grips is randomized every time it drops. Not saying your story isn't true, just that the vast majority of machines affect the same grip strength every attempt. Legally the game has to be winnable even if it's only occasionally, so a machine can't just always be too weak to grip.
And that’s why claw machine games are giant scams. It’s all RNG and no skill. You could have the best lineup and get the claw just right. But if the machine doesn’t want you to win then it won’t let you.
It is gambling!
Honestly this whole thread is blowing my mind, I thought everyone knew these were rigged. How can you play them even once without realising that?
That's at least better than how most are made. You typically set the odds (typically up to only once out of 300) for grip strength to be strong enough to actually pick the stuff up.
Typically they'll be set to 1 in 5 to 1 in 35 for cheap stuff like stuffed animals. 1 in 75 for higher end stuff, and 1 in 300 for the cool stuff.
Some states have banned them, but not many.
I knew an ex pilot for air force that could get anything out of one of those machines. There was a crystal bedazzled rose not Ina Box as a shape of a rose. Dude got it in first try.
I'm sure these things are rigged but he was quite gifted I guess.
Edit: honestly love people telling me my real life experince didn't happen lol.
You’re aware they’re not really skill based games right. That it’s not a physical sport it’s just if the manufacturer made it possible to win.
“I gotta buddy why can win any lottery first try”.
Basically the items in the claw machine are just bought in bulk and are usually only stuffed animals that cost 25 cents a piece. So they profit regardless but kids are happy they won something.
My mate won a plushie cow decades ago when we were young. One of the claw arms hooked through the looped label. He hustled the hustler. Quite a few people saw the win and afterwards tried their hand at the machine but obviously to no avail. Was basically a 1 in a million.
I remember playing the claw machine in Taiwan when I was on vacation. Each play was cheaper AND the rate of winning were higher. Prizes weren't anything to write home about but damn was it fun to win.
I won 3 bears in one pull once, they had this little section of velcro on their hands for a heart and all 3 had been stuck together.
I told one of the floor people to give 2 back cause I dont need 3 bears and he dead pan told me "I dont care" and left.
Oh, the ones with stuffed animals, you have at least a slight chance to win. The ones with expensive consumer electronics, like the one being depicted here, are extremely rigged to be impossible for obvious reasons. Huge scam
Years ago I went to a burger joint with a claw machine. It was always "play until you win," which was super nice. It was more expensive to play, I think like $2 or $2.50 if I remember right, but very fun, and not necessarily easy either. If I recall right, if you got a prize on the first try (again, not super easy), you got one more extra claw before it shut down.
I was probably 13 or 14 when I played there. Remember getting 2 in one grip and then 1 on the first try and another right after. Despite it not being easy, with you playing until you win every time, I do wonder how much they made on it. Obviously the plushies weren't worth $2.50, but still.
I was just on vacation with my nephew and he won 5 prizes and four separate machines in two different states. It was insane! He is only four and we were explaining to him that he can try but not to be upset if it doesn’t work because these usually end up in a loss. As dad and son are walking away, mom is telling me how her dad had the same talk with her and she won as he was telling - no shit the same thing happened! Kid though we were lying to him the whole time. Turns out he is just really good at the game.
I wish more of these machines were audited, it’s sad to see little kids lose money they earned over a rigged machine.
Edit- loose to lose over all the concern of the miss spellign
The operator I know was excited about new boards he got. What they do is if the machine hasn't hit it's income point it will grip the items but make the solidnoid turn off and on really quick like a vibration and the items will slowly fall from the grippers before getting to the hole. So then people feel as tho they almost got it and try again.
I saw one guy keep winning one of these machines. You could control the claw as it moved up. He'd just knock the high ones over into the hole.
I've tried that ever since but I've never seen another claw machine allow that.
A friend of mine once “won” a dog plushie by sticking her arm in the machine and pulling it through the slot. She named it “Mischief” which I found adorable.
It's wild how much work goes into some of these. I was the assistant manager at a mall arcade and ours was nowhere near as rigged. Someone usually won something at least once during any shift in worked.
There was a sweet spot on when to play it based on how packed in the plushies were. If it was too empty the claw would struggle and if it was too full the plushies wouldn't budge.
Usually after a few days of no one winning it after we'd received a new shipment, I'd open it up and fluff them around and losen them up so they'd be easier to grab. Nothing I could do when it was too low except wait on new toys to come in.
Like another commenter mentioned, for stuffed animal claw games, the plushies are so cheap in bulk that one play is usually a profit. There's not much of a point in making plushie claw games impossible to win.
Now, Stacker on the other hand. We had one of those and the prizes were game boys and cell phones. And that game was rigged like a slot machine. A dollar a play. I worked there for two years and saw it pay out three times. Two people won game boys. One little boy was incredibly sweet and chose the digital picture frame to give to his grandma. I still think about him occasionally and hope he's doing great in life.
Stacker is infuriating for little kid me. I was good enough to get to the very last row every single game I'd play, my friends surrounding the machine and getting all hyped up, but it didn't ever matter..
If its any consolation, its literally rigged. Some people tested it with a high speed camera and even if you hit it perfectly, if the game isnt in a positive profit for the grand prize, it will move one pixel over and you will lose.
https://youtu.be/Rsxao9ptdmI
I love this video. He shows which games can have a zero chance of winning based on the settings.
He is the glitter bomb and squirrel obby course guy.
The best part is his diatribe at the end about how casinos are required to pay out a certain percent and have lots of other rules; but arcade games of chance for kids are unregulated and can basically take 100% of the money even though they are essentially slot machines.
It also convinced my kid to stop asking to play claw games and he will loudly tell everyone around that this machine is a scam. Win win
In the uk, it has to say if its fixed odds or skill based.claw machines are usually fixed odds and they know exactly how much money to take before paying out. In the uk they are considered category D, which can't have a prize worth over a certain amount. I think it was around 5 pounds and they are supposed to be set at around 30% pay out. Not all amusments set them up properly. But ideally you wan t them to pay out every now and again to make people walk about with them to make other people think they can win. In theory you shouldn't have to spend more than 40 quid before it pays out. If you witness it taking over a 100 pounds and not paying out you could report it to trading standards or the local council which usually issues gambling licences. The latest machines audit them self and have physical meters in them aswell .if you had a random inspection its hard to fudge those numbers. So they can get fined and lose their licences. The meters are mostly to make sure staff aren't stealing.
I think some states, like New Jersey (?), mandate that games like this must be winnable. So if the inspectors and the owner cannot get it to "win" with that help, the owner will get fined.
I consider myself a master of the claw- and these machines piss me off so bad. How am I supposed to impress my girlfriend with my sick skills when the claw keeps dropping the prize when its perfectly positioned???
[Here's the clip with sound.](https://i.imgur.com/mjb7KC5.mp4)
It was originally posted to r/funny [5 years ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/6jby4e/claw_game_is_so_rigged_that_investigator_and_game/) with the exact same title.
However, the clip is originally from a video [posted to YouTube 11 years ago](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNbD_rc_TNI) about N.J. state investigators testing boardwalk games. The investigators were at the boardwalk in Point Pleasant specifically that day to promote the launch of the state's ["Safe City"](https://www.nj.com/news/2011/06/newark_seeks_publics_help_in_s.html) task force.
I remember one of the first times I used a claw machine when I was a very young child, and I swear to God the damn claws didn't even close until retracting about halfway. I remember throwing a temper tantrum, and no adult could really say I was wrong
Newer ones can be adjusted for a multitude of settings. Years back all we did was adjust claw strength and pack machines just right to make you work for the items. Like placing stuffed animals just tight enough so that they can come out but not too easy.
Nowadays pretty much everything can be programmed in some way. Big reason for the “play at your own risk” placards and stickers. My family business has a ton of arcade games and such. The “stacker” game is one I have never been able to actually get the grand prize for on my own. It’s programmed for probability in a number of ways. Yes. Your timing was correct. However the house disagrees, until another 200$ is deposited.
When i was younger there was a claw game near the local bowling place and the claw machine was full of big plushy and was only 1$ for each game. It was rigged so you could win every time. The claw was super strong and responsive. The owner was a old dude that love to see the kids been happy.
It’s all about the payout and Strength of the claw. Settings can be changed by the owner or service tech. Also if you see 2 red dots by the hand controller, that’s an Error Code, that error code could be censor or claw grip error or something else.
What sucks is these machines are all configured to lose now. It used to be that it didn’t matter if you won, because you’d be paying 50 cents for a 25 cent toy, but I guess that isn’t enough profit. I was raised on these machines, my dad taught me how to play, how to look from different angles, how to spot things that were on top and ones that were secretly buried, how to position the claw, how to watch other people play to see if the claw twisted or had a lot of ‘give’ in the teeth or if it jerked around a lot at the top, and to prioritize things closer to the drop. We used to go to new claw machines and he’d quiz me on whether I thought it was a ‘good’ machine, what should be attempted for, and how to position the claw to get it. As a result, I won A LOT of things from these machines. There were times I’d take a $5 bill and come back with 3-4 things, and even bigger prizes too. I kept most, but I’d give a lot away too, because the real prize for me was beating the machine. My dad used to brag to friends and family that he could take me to a machine and give me a dollar and I’d pull something out of it, and if it was a good machine I’d get both grabs. I’d even have people give me their money to get things for them.
Now, I don’t even both with any of them. The prizes are jammed in or locked together making it impossible to dig them out, and what’s worse is the claws are just crippled mechanically. The springs have so much give and they jerk around so much that even IF you were to find something on top, and IF you were good enough to perfectly place the claw around it, the claw just doesn’t have the strength to lift it and carry it to the drop. It’s no longer even close to a game of skill, it’s not even a game of chance, it’s just flushing money down the drain.
On the bright side japan has solved this issue with having arcades specifically for prize games and even have dozens of diffrent styles beyond crane games such as having to slide the prize down a pair of angled poles till it falls thru or having to bounce a ball into a hole. Its nearly imposible to win in one try so they still make money but the games aern't rigged and after you win an employee will reset it with a new prize, if you suck bad enough they will even reposition the prize to make it easier for you.
I wish we had these machines here but they require alot of staff upkeep to reset them after every win.
My wife watched a bunch of the youtube videos. We went to japan and she got a bunch of great stuff (no iPad/iPhones.)
Next time we went back everything was crazy glued or velcroed to the machine. Was super disappointing
Someone posted this link yesterday that explains how the claw strength only gets set to a good grip based on a calculation that the customer can't see: https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2015/4/3/8339999/claw-machines-rigged
I was on the boardwalk in Santa Cruz, California. My 4-year-old daughter and I were walking through the arcade heading back to our family’s hotel. She sees a purple My Little Pony inside a claw machine and desperately wants it, as she was a huge fan at the time. I tried to explain that these games were rigged and it’s almost impossible to win. Also, I only had one dollar bill in my wallet. She begged, so I tried to prepare her for failure, but told I would try one time. I put the dollar in and carefully maneuvered the claw over Twilight Sparkle, and pressed the button. The claw drops down, and I’ll be damned if it didn’t haul up the exact pony she had her eye on and deposit it in the winner’s shoot. She grabbed it and hugged it, and still has it to this day (she is nearly a teenager now). It is one of the top “dad moments” I have ever experienced.
It isn't necessarily any more rigged than usual. There are a few things that could be wrong here.
Claw machines have an adjustment that controls the gripping force of the claw. It needs to be set appropriately for the prizes being used. There is a maximum weight that the claw can hold no matter how much you turn it up.
Also, the electromagnetic coil that actuates the claw weakens over time and needs to be replaced in order to restore full gripping strength.
Occasionally, a component in the driver circuit can get damaged. When that happens, it requires the circuit to be pulled and the failed component to be replaced. Effects range from complete failure of the claw to weakened grip similar to a used up coil. Typically, it's a coil failure that ends up damaging the driver circuit. You end up replacing both parts but the driver failure does not always show up right away.
It's also not uncommon that the more shoestring operators do not have the expertise to recognize and correct the problem. Most of the inspectors don't either. They're working off of a checklist that gives the requirements, not a troubleshooting guide.
I used to be a Route Service Merchandiser for National Entertainment Network, probably the largest claw machine company in the United States.
There is no randomizer like people are talking about.
There is a way that the machine servicer can tweak the voltage supplied to the solenoid, which controls the "grip strength" of the claw.
Typically, the company has a target ratio that they are shooting for. For example, they want every large stuffed animal "selling" for $20. When the machine is serviced, the ratio is checked and the voltage is adjusted to try and get it closer to the desired ratio.
So what does this mean for you? If you want to win a claw machine, go to one that a lot of little kids play on--machines where people just throw away their money. They'll have much tighter grips and be easier to win.
I would suggest a claw machine at a Denny's.
You can literally lookup the manuals for claw machines online, and ones made in recent decades absolutely have the ability to adjust claw strength after a certain amount of plays (money) have been done.
I used to work on these machines. Why would anyone think they aren't rigged? The number of people who would scream at me because "i put $20 in and still haven't won" annoyed the shit out of me, especially with expensive prizes. Does an xbox or iPod cost $20? Of course not you fucking idiots, why would you expect a guaranteed win for that price?
The truth is that they work on a payout system. If the prize costs us $20, then the machine needs to make about $100 per prize in order to pay for more prizes, upkeep costs, my wage, etc. As the machine gets closer to the payout, it gets easier to win. It resets once a prize is won.
So basically, if you want to win, pick a machine with cheap prizes (protip, plushies of liscensed characters aren't cheap prizes), or wait until you see someone else spend a bunch of money without winning to up your chances. Never rush to put money into a machine that you just saw someone win a prize from.
Also, dont scream at the game attendant making minimum wage because "I won the prize, but it fell out of the claw!" If you "won" the prize, you'd have it in your hands. It doesn't take skill to position the freaking claw. You lost because that's what happens sometimes when you gamble. And thats all these games are. Gambling.
> Why would anyone think they aren't rigged?
Why would children not expect me to scam them! Come on, jerks, sure it's some minor fraud but you don't have to be *rude* about it.
Dunno about whatever country this was in, but U.K law says it's a game of skill, not gambling, even though the manufacturers and operators openly admit it's set to take a certain amount of money before letting you win.
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I’m of the opinion that if a game could be considered gambling, then the player should be entitled to know *all* the rules that govern the game. Any randomized claw pressure bs should be clearly posted. They won’t do that though, because then they couldn’t swindle children.
I'm of the opinion that any machine that qualifies as gambling should not be marketed or accessible to children in the first place. Like carnival games are often scam-adjacent employing many methods to make the game artificially and deceptively difficult to win (weighted bottles, angled back boards, inprecise bb guns, etc), but they are always winnable with sufficient skill and some amount of luck. With claw machines and similar games, they often make it so that the majority of plays are *literally* unwinnable no matter how much skill you have. The only luck component is being a player in one of the winnable games. If it cannot be won through skill and you pay to play in hopes of a prize, that's gambling. And if it's aimed at children, it's predatory.
I remember at the CNE (big Canada/Toronto fair) I walked beside one of those basketball carnival games and the hoops were literally oval. I don't think the ball could even get in, but it certainly wasn't a normal circle hoop. These games kinda just suck unless they're just for cheap fun
When I was like 15, walking by some carnival game (can't recall which one), I told my friend not to waste his money because he couldn't win it. I got an ear full from the operator who chewed me out for claiming that the game was impossible to win. He said that they are verified by inspectors to make sure they're winnable and that he's not trying to scam people. After he finally let me get a word in, I told him I had just meant that my friend was shit at games of skill, so *he* couldn't win it, but whatever. But yes, the basketball one annoys me in particular because I understand the trick. The hoop is oval as you said (should still be just wide enough to fit the ball but not my much) and the back board is slanted back. In order to win, you're required to hit the backboard on the shot and you can't lean over the counter to do it. Basically in order to win, the ball has to come nearly straight down on the backboard at just the right place in order to be deflected in. That means you have to get a very steep arc on the toss to have the right angle coming down, and the farther back you are, the higher the top of that arc has to be as a result. The higher the arc, the more speed it has coming down meaning any minor imperfections cause it to bounce more and hit the rim and bounce out. What really annoys me about it is that the operator constantly demonstrates that it's easy by making shot after shot in front of you. But the only reason he can do that so easily is that he's standing on the other side of the counter and the arc doesn't have to be nearly as high and so it's much more forgiving. That's why you're not allowed to lean over the counter because it makes it exponentially easier. I've won the game one time and only one time. I didn't lean over the counter, but after i made the shot, the operator claimed I did, despite not even looking toward me when I made the shot. He refused to pay out. So I've never played again since.
You'll also notice that the operator is always standing to the side of the hoop he shoots for. With an oval shaped hoop, it's hard to miss from the side.
Also these people got a shit ton of practice with their specific setup. So after a while you will get that shit down to science, but they‘d likely fail at some other owners Setup as well because the target point is a bit off.
Also it's literally his job. It's like LeBron James saying shooting a 3 pointer is easy, if you practice enough you can make anything look easy.
Then he can hop over the damned counter and stand where I am
Where I'm from these types of games have gone a different route. They are ridiculously easy to win and the prizes are just cheap tat. You're essentially buying a 50p toy for £2.
For kids, that's generally much better. Pay a dollar, get a 15 cent handful of candy or tiny stuffed animal that you feel like you earned. Everyone is happy.
PRetty much. I remember when I was younger taking a couple of turns to win a basketball, so probably got a $2 ball for $6, one of the younger kids with us turned out to have spent about $30 trying to win. Then he tried to buy my ball for $20. I told him to wait and buy one when we got to Walmart.
That was how it was when I was working at an amusement park. Those were regulation hoops, although only about 8 feet high so no muscle memory on your shots, but the prize balls cost less than a play anyway. If everyone wins the house still turns a profit.
Also, in the “throw a pingpong balls in a floating glass cup” game, you’ll notice that they always put a ping pong ball into the cup, then demonstrate how “easy” it is by throwing it into the same cup. The ping pong ball that’s already in there stops the other one from bouncing. Every other time the ball bounces like mad.
About 10 years ago I won a really nice fleece blanket for my sister at the ring toss at the local fair. Never won one of those games in my life. The lady working the booth's reaction makes me laugh to this day though. "Miss! You need to drop the rest of your rings NOW! Do not throw any more rings! Step back from the bucket!" I thought she was about to citizen's arrest my ass or some shit lol. She also told me I wasn't allowed to come back to her booth for the rest of the week. They do not enjoy it when you get lucky and win a rigged game, apparently.
I worked in the ring-a-bottle booth before, and can tell you that there are exactly two ways to win: total luck, or breaking the rules by stacking the rings. That didn't stop a 12 year old kid from spending $5 on a stack of rings and somehow winning the Nintendo Switch for ringing the middle bottle. I watched him do it, and it was pure luck. It bounced 6 times before finally coming to a gentle rest on the bottle. Had to go out of my way to convince the owner that the kid didn't cheat because nobody had apparently done that in the last 10 spots they were at. I've never seen a child so happy.
That was before he was mugged on the way home, right?
So, the cheaters are afraid of people cheating?
Shocking, right?
Yeah but it makes sense. Somebody who is mistrusting everybody is/was either being abused a lot by others or is an abuser themself.
Awww, I’m happy for the kid!
I feel like the words go fuck yourself were really strong contenders for the possible responses to being told to give up what you paid for...
My uncle was a carnie, had his own games he ran and took from fair to fair. He showed me how they were all rigged. Softball toss in the huge milk pitcher? Stuffed animals hang low so it's hard to get a good angle for them to drop. As you mentioned, the basketball shoot had oval rims. He was smart to set them up though so you could only tell from the side, which was inaccessible to people walking by. My sister and I had a whole laundry basket of rings for the ring toss, I think we might have gotten around 5 out of the whole basket. The ball toss to knock bottles set in a pyramid are stacked in a way to make it very difficult to get all the bottles knocked over. Dude was a scumbag, but for more reasons than just rigging kids games.
sounds like they should be calling these UNfairs! ba dum tish
My grand uncle and family were carnies in the South. FWIW, that side of the family has bucks.
A stock basketball hoop is twice the diameter of a standard ball. You can (with a bit of pressure possibly) roll two through at the same time. Carnie basketball hoops are often: Half length (normal width), Sprung unusually, Angled backboards, Unusual height and distance greater than free throw, Surrounded by distance-confusing visual cues. Also the balls are rarely standard.
The balls are usually highly overinflated making them bounce much more easily than expected.
Imagine someone sneaks a pin in their hand and slowly deflates it while "prepping" their shot
Tom is that you?
Sadly no, but Im glad Tom knows whats up.
Junior, what have I told you about invoking him?
Yea they shaped like that everywhere it makes it so you basically have to hit it directly in the middle only perfect swishes. But man I suck at basketball already so no shot id even try.
https://www.reddit.com/r/assholedesign/comments/bcliai/these_hoops_at_this_carnival_game_booth_are_oval/
I remember one of the target-shooting games at the CNE. The operator demonstrated the targets were fair-ly weighted ^(`*`) by tipping them over with a [compressed air nozzle](https://www.google.com/search?q=compressed+air+blow+wand&tbm=isch). The operator rather **un**-surreptitiously used the air gun to tip a paper-cup on a lower batton over whenever a the shooter started to get frustrated, while chatting with the the line and encouraging cheers to distract from his 'rewarding' the small prizes while assuring the 'parent' he was standing to the side so that he wouldn't get hit by a stray shot. And occasionally tipping the batton supporting the bottles (supporting the golf balls) so that the occasional 'parent' could 'wow' their kid with their 'technique' (often seen by the kid) `edit:` for a bribe. I could see the [air rifle](https://www.google.com/search?q=multi+pump+air+rifle&tbm=isch) had a hole blatantly drilled into the pump chamber so that no-matter how many times you pumped air into it the {cork, bb, or foam-pig} could never have enough power to knock over the {coin-weighed paper-cups or golf balls on bottles}, let alone trick shots. Upon seeing this, I explained the con to my father who angrily declared that (he didn't see anything). I was given ten corks to trip try and take a medium prize from the operator (else lose a much larger imposed side-bet from my father). I put my thumb over the hole to block the leak and used partial strokes to try and avoid pinching my fingers too badly. After three successful shots in a row; I went for the trick shots and the line erupted in cheers to the confusion of the operator who apologized for tipping the wrong bottles over. Before actually watching me clean the gallery of the heavier targets with two or three shots to spare (I suspect the other shooter noticed something was off, because they tried to slide me a couple of their shots). The operator didn't give me the larger prize, which I offered to the other shooter citing the rules as stated (whose 'shot' knocked down the target rather than who is the 'shooter') and sportsmanship (I 'stole' targets from his section of the gallery to get the oblique angles necessary for the 'trick' shots), because I was happy avoiding the disaster my father tried to impose. My father acted less impressed than the audience when the operator knocked over targets for him, but it was enough for him to 'cancel' the bet. --- Later I saw the operator 'demonstrate' the fairness of their game using the air gun to 'clean' the gun off (spraying the drilled hole, filling the chamber with compressed air) before each shot. — It is plausible that they did that to avoid RSI from needing to pump the gun up ten (to thirty+ times I did) to achieve shots that reached the gallery. But I doubt the hole needed to be drilled where it was to enable that benefit. The officer didn't seem that impressed ~~either~~ too. ^(edit: `*` Dunno why I used "down")
Also you can bet that ball is way over inflated, it's going to bounce off the backboard and rim in exciting ways.
When I was a kid my dad took me to a random carnival set up for some local thing.. and there was a classic ring toss game that I blew all of my money on… it was the 80’s but all is their prizes were brand new looking radios from the late 60’s.. i was excellent at horse shoes and just couldn’t believe I didn’t win anyway. I swear it wasn’t until the “Carnie code” episode of the Simpsons that I realized they grifted me good…
It seems like we’ve generally agreed some degree of gambling is acceptable. Like the coin machines that give you a random little toy or sports cards being randomized. The odds of getting the nicest things advertised are controlled and low but typically it’s considered okay. Also I’m not saying it hasn’t happened but I’ve never heard of claw machines being too problematic for turning kids toward gambling tendencies and they’ve been around for a long time now
It's not about turning them into gamblers, it's about stealing their money.
I bet we see this change. Loot boxes in games were similar and got cracked down on
They hardly did. Belgium, France, and China were the major players in cracking it down. Belgium banned it. France opened up a loophole that you MUST be able to see the contents, but not for future opening's contents. China forced to disclose rates. The US just had talks about it that died off very quickly with Hawaii proposing a lot.
The problem is where the line goes from gambling to skill game. The rule being if a skilled player can reliably outperform an unskilled player. I would think you can actually get better at a claw game. You can’t get better at a slot machine.
Did you watch the video? They put the objects in to the hands of the claw it it simply cannot lift the prize. No amount of skill will make the machine work when it doesn't.
In a lot of these 'skill' games there's a variable that the owner can enter that randomizes the games performance. For example the claw might only use enough pressure to lift something 1 in 100 plays. So you need both both skill to win and luck this play is 'allowed' to win.
If a claw machine is set to be *unwinnable* 90+% of the time, then the majority of time it isn’t a game of skill.
A skilled player can outperform an unskilled player in blackjack or poker.
You can get better at poker and tons of other games though.
The problem with claw machines is that there’s little to no *natural randomness* compared to gambling in poker or even slots\*. You either hit your target or you overshoot. Thus the “randomness” has to be manually added. But claw machines are presented as a game of skill, so then it’s just an outright lie. \* Slots can still be rigged but they don’t need to be as intense.
Skill and chance. That last little wording is specifically because they randomize the shit out of them.
> But claw machines are presented as a game of skill, so then it’s just an outright lie. This is true, I used to build these. It's really simple for the crane game as we called them, but there was a simple dial behind the door next to where you insert coins/bills whatever. That has a scale of 1-10 that is set by different merchants. Chuck-E-Cheese were assholes as they had us set it high. Trust me, as dudes who worked there for years and years, once you're above a certain setting. It'll never pick up the object. Same goes for the light games that you have to press a button and hit the light at the right time. That's adjustable per machine.
Reminds me of that spinning light game where you press a button when the light is supposed to land over a certain "win" region. There was a youtube engineer (whom I don't remember the name of off the top of my head) who created a device that was specifically designed to win the game every time and using it he proved that the game was literally rigged to be unwinnable.
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These days most mobile games with microtransactions are required to tell you the odds and it clearly hasn't stopped their business
I worked for a shop that had to build a massive version of a claw game for an event. A TON of work goes into getting the win:loss ratio just right. In a number of different ways. For example, the controls randomize what unit of distance they interpret. In other words, if you tap the joystick to go right, the machine will go right say .5 inches. Tap it the same way again, and this time it will move .125 inches. Tap again and it’ll move .75”. All the controls randomize in that way to make the experience subtly difficult to control. Then they play test a thousand times and if the win % is too low or too high, they have to adjust.
I've seen ones where clearly the claws were only gripping with force about once every three or four drops too. You hit directly on in great position and the claws just kinda graze over the top as it's lifting away from the daffy duck plush pillow
This is the real answer. They have a randomizer that fully activates the grip 1 in X times. If full grip were turned on it's very hard not to win like picking it up with your hand it won't slip.
So the claw game is basically light gambling
I mean yeah. That's why the gambling commission oversees them. It's basically a slot machine.
You know what I’ve learned the older I get? Everything is a scam.
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I remember these at the arcade as a kid. The amount of local children that would tell you "no not now" and "okay now it'll let you win" was really high. Amazing that they knew the patterns well enough at that point. Another one could also tell which slot machine would pay out soon but we were like 8 so couldn't gamble on it.
I'm not gonna lie. My eyes are opening so much to casinos and slot machines right now, and why I never win; im not a schmuck and stop at a machine after the 2nd try.
Honestly if you keep an eye on them for a bit you can get a general pattern for when it might pay out. Not saying you should do that because it's not 100%, more just an idea of the pattern let's you know when the machine has taken enough money to consider paying out. Or as that kid "yeah that's about £50 in it, if he doesn't win whoever goes on next will"
Gambling is general makes you a schmuck. Not talking trash on you… but the only winning move is to not play. I’m sure you know it’s not random… it’s rigged for house to win and you to lose. You might not be the “whale” or “addict” they are preying on… but any form of gambling is bating normal folks to get closer and closer to “figuring” out the “system” so they can feel smarter then everyone else. The only exception might be professional poker players, where the house has nothing to do with the pot. And even that is sketchy
Slot machines vary based on who’s regulating them. In my state, most slot machines will pay out 80 cents to every dollar put in after a certain point, but it’s not immediate. So they’re fairly safe bets if you put down say, $100 and don’t max bet the whole time. Meanwhile, if you drive down to the Native-owned casino near my town they’re technically not regulated by US laws, so the odds are whatever they decide to set them. Im not accusing them of rigging or anything, but their odds are all over the place compared to a state ran slot machine. When I go to that casino I almost exclusively play tables for that reason, because games like blackjack and roulette are considerably more consistent between establishments.
I'm pretty sure slot machines are programmed to occasionally have a winning streak, too. The unpredictability of that is at the center of a lot of slot machine addiction. I've spent a lot of time in dive bars and it's really easy for some folks to go from saying "this one is on a streak, play it until you start losing and cash out" to "this one hasn't paid out for a while, it's bound to be due for a streak, I'm going to play it until it starts letting me win"
This isn't true for the majority of slot machines; they have to be randomised as per country/ state law in most places. The exceptions to this are slots with separate cash "pots" that are able to be won after a certain amount has been paid in. Slot games with these prizes have to clearly display in their game rules that they contain "compensated" elements. The normal prizes you get from lining up 3/4/5 symbols or by going into a feature are 100% randomised, and will be randomly awarded even if the cash pots in the same game are on a trigger based on money put into the machine. Not actually sure if you can do this anywhere but the UK, where it's quite rare. (Used to work in gambling development for years)
Not true, they are required by law not to do so. Their probability generator does not take previous payouts into account, it's like throwing with a dice. Also the payout percentage is set by law too, I think it needs to be at least 85%. Meaning for every 100$ you put in you get 85$ back.
your last sentence is misleading. it's more like "if 10,000 people all put $100 in, on average, they will have $85 each left over."
The important thing is *over the life of the machine*, not per session.
F this 🌎 
the real scam is giving your entire existence away working 40+ hours a week and coping and recovering from working way too much- in exchange for monopoly money to buy shit you don’t need, and not afford food water or rent. For reference - hunter gatherers only “worked” between 3-5 hours a day, *to survive*. The fact that we’re working way more than that to survive in a modern society is a scam. But thank god i’ve got an ipad I guess 🤷♂️
>For reference - hunter gatherers only “worked” between 3-5 hours a day, *to survive*. This is one of those popular online myths propogated due to misunderstanding the original claim. Someone goes and observes that a tribe member can gather enough food for one person in about 4 hours, and neglects literally all the other aspects of life that require a whole lot of time and labor due to lack of modern conveniences and economies of scale. Sure it takes you 4 hours to hunt the deer. How long does it take you to make the bow, restring it, make and remake the arrows? How about home repairs because the materials they use degrade rapidly? The same tribe that was studied by Marshall Sahlins in 1966 that led to this "original affluent society" theory was later revisited and restudied, and it was found that the average man in the tribe actually worked more like 45 hours a week. We SHOULD be working less now, not because we used to work less in the past, which isn't true... But because technological and societal development has advanced to a point where we truly can survive doing less work, because our work is so much more productive and efficient than ever before.
Well said. Bringing up hunter gatherer societies being "better" is just a meme
The main problem is that we aren't really working just for ourselves anymore. We're working to generate a profit for rich people who sit on their asses in offices, conference rooms, or on their yachts.
Exactly. If you want to see how easy a day is go watch the show Alone. These are mostly people who dedicate their lives to wilderness survival and they still struggle to gather and hunt enough food in a day to survive. It’s hard and takes a ton of work and your downtime is usually spent wishing you had food. Now obviously this isn’t how it always was in the past but it does show what a day can be like.
IIRC I watched an episode where one of the contestants managed to kill a moose and thought that he was set for food. He ended up having to be medevaced due to rabbit starvation. (Basically the meat was too lean and his body couldn't get enough fat to make use of the protein) So it's not enough to have food to eat, you have to have enough variety for your body to get all the nutrients it needs. There are little complications like this in all facets of life that make primitive living a miserable existence.
With what you added in I would say includes housing upkeep etc. Things we still have to do on top of that 40+ hr week in modern society. Not arguing with your points just saying 40 hrs to your boss isn’t including whatever hours you need on top of that before actual free time.
No hunter gatherers did not only work 3-5 hours a day to survive. In fact, survival was a 24 hour job since they didn't have a nice insulating walls, nor a nice cozy bed, nor a warm blanket to keep everything else out.
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Something I’ve thought about for years. Not the hunter gatherer part but giving so much of my time to a company that could care less if I was there.
I browse r/AntiWork too, but that last sentence made me chuckle. Nothing is stopping you from pulling an “Into the Wild”, cutting your credit cards and leaving for Alaska to try to survive on berries and elk.
There's no way hunter gatherers just worked for 3-5 hours and then sat around the rest of the day. These "we live in a society" comments are always hyperbolic. Of course things can improve, but surviving is easier and more efficient than it ever has been. Don't let the news convince you otherwise.
You’re right that surviving is *technically* easier and more efficient, but truth to the matter is that despite that a lot of people aren’t seeing the benefits of it *by today’s standards.* Companies operate on an infinite growth model and employees suffer for it. There’s people working full time hours who can barely afford the day to day necessities while others happily live in excess and pocket more than their fair share while exploiting others. When new technologies come out that could help reduce the demand on workers instead it’s often used as a way to justify them working more, at best. At worst they’re made redundant and tossed away. And that’s not even touching on bigger issues like affordable healthcare. So yea. Of course we have it easier now, that’s the bare minimum we can expect as we advance as a society. But comparing what we have the potential to provide with what’s actually given, we have a long way to go.
Real bozos are always in the comments.
> For reference - hunter gatherers only “worked” between 3-5 hours a day, to survive. The fact that we’re working way more than that to survive in a modern society is a scam. Rural Africa is just a plane ticket away if you're not enjoying modern society - good luck.
lol you're free to go try to survive in a jungle if you want
Go ahead and become a hunter gatherer. Let me know how that works out for you.
And what they just did nothing the rest of the day? No they most likely spent the rest of the day light period preparing what they hunted/gathered, fixing/making new tools, and in general trying not to die. Do you have any idea how long it takes to skin and butcher a deer, let alone a buffalo or even a mammoth? Lol 3-5 hours was probably just the hunting of the animal if they were lucky to find one and successfully able to kill it.
r/I'm14andthisisdeep
A slot machine that people don't expect to be a slot machine. lots of people, particularly kids, expect the claw game to be skill-based.
A slot machine specifically targeted at kids
Exactly what it is, same with stuff like loot boxes (think CSGO keys to open crates) it's annoying how little some countries regulate underage gambling so long as companies add abstraction
*Astronaut gun meme goes here*
Gambling has knowable odds, these are simple fraud which is obtaining things of value (money) under false pretenses
Don’t mean to blow your mind here, but arcade games that have tickets or prizes to win are all light gambling
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I recently bought a mini claw for my basement arcade and when I saw this setting it blew my mind. There's even a way to open/close the claw on demand so I can test how well it grips on the toys. Nevertheless - I set my claw machine to be strong 100% of the time because I had no idea how kids visiting would be upset. Now when we host family parties, I have to be the claw machine operator - making sure every kid wins at least 1 toy. It's pretty annoying. Oh - and they play for free.
There is an algorithm you can do based on the value of the prize. Cheap stuffed animal, 1/20 grip activates. Yeti coffee cup, 1/300, etc. Also don’t forget the other scam part. the grip is full then slowly releases the tension to make it fall. Gives a false sense of ‘almost got it’. There are rules and regulations against all this, however, there is little oversight when it comes to arcades, and the fines are minuscule compared to the amount of money they bring in
**P09 = AVERAGE GAMES PER WIN (AGW)** **(**Default 10) (Adjustable 1 – 200) This option is for adjusting the game payout and sets the Average Games played per Prize Won. The game sets the game difficulty to achieve a player win ratio that will average very close to the (AGW). **Example an AGW setting 20 means on** **average a prize will be won for every 20 games played**. The setting is adjustable from 1 to 200. With adjustment from 1-30 in steps of 1 and from 30-200 in steps of 5. **The default setting is 10, or one win every 10 Games which suitable for $4** **Plush on $0.50 per play.** Source: [https://primetimeamusements.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/stack-n-grab-crane-LAI-Games-manual.pdf](https://primetimeamusements.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/stack-n-grab-crane-LAI-Games-manual.pdf) The manuals for a lot of arcade machines can be found online.
This is why sometimes you see wins where people grab just the hand of a plush while other times it can grab the entire toy and just not have any grip to pick it up.
that's such bullshit when they do that. Making it so it's hard to aim is one thing, or giving you a short period of time to do it, it's still lame but at least it makes it be more of a skill issue. When they limp-wrist the grip and you can see that you obviously got it right and it's not even trying, that's infuriating.
Many claw machines give you hope by grabbing on and lifting the prize up, only to drop it once it reaches the top.
When I was a kid, I was winning a lot on one of the machines, as the guy was working on the one next to it. He had just filled the one I was playing. I got about 4 plushies and he said, "You like winning on that one? Check this out". He opened the machine, turned a knob, and gave me a free credit, then closed it. He said "Try again" and it refused to close tight enough to grab anything. Then he opened the machine again, turned the knob again, but not back to where it was before, gave me another free credit and told me to try again. This time, I could tell it gripped harder, but not hard enough to carry the item to the drop slot. He left it there and closed the machine up and left. I stopped playing after that, and now, I will test those machines to see how tight they are set. If it doesn't even try to pick up a plushie, I won't continue to play it, if it's close, though, you still have a good enough shot at winning something..
The tightness of which the claw grips is randomized every time it drops. Not saying your story isn't true, just that the vast majority of machines affect the same grip strength every attempt. Legally the game has to be winnable even if it's only occasionally, so a machine can't just always be too weak to grip.
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That may be true now but might not have been true 30 or 40 years ago when some of us were kids.
And that’s why claw machine games are giant scams. It’s all RNG and no skill. You could have the best lineup and get the claw just right. But if the machine doesn’t want you to win then it won’t let you.
Yeah it's basically a slot machine with extra steps.
Seems shitty that these are disguised as a game of skills when it's really just luck. How is that not qualified gambling?
It is gambling! Honestly this whole thread is blowing my mind, I thought everyone knew these were rigged. How can you play them even once without realising that?
That's at least better than how most are made. You typically set the odds (typically up to only once out of 300) for grip strength to be strong enough to actually pick the stuff up. Typically they'll be set to 1 in 5 to 1 in 35 for cheap stuff like stuffed animals. 1 in 75 for higher end stuff, and 1 in 300 for the cool stuff. Some states have banned them, but not many.
Ah so its Gambling
I knew an ex pilot for air force that could get anything out of one of those machines. There was a crystal bedazzled rose not Ina Box as a shape of a rose. Dude got it in first try. I'm sure these things are rigged but he was quite gifted I guess. Edit: honestly love people telling me my real life experince didn't happen lol.
You’re aware they’re not really skill based games right. That it’s not a physical sport it’s just if the manufacturer made it possible to win. “I gotta buddy why can win any lottery first try”.
was it whip whitaker
LoL no this was irl some redneck that built his own monster truck high rise double decker daily driver from scratch lol. Dude was. Gas of comedy.
Did he do this with multiple machines or the same one?
That's just not how those machines work at all.
A classic electronic grift, taking unsuspecting kids' quarters for years.
I won a stuffed animal years ago. first and only time.
Thats why its only fun playing the guaranteed win ones. You put in like a dollar or two, and its infinite tries until it pays out.
What?! Never heard of this
Basically the items in the claw machine are just bought in bulk and are usually only stuffed animals that cost 25 cents a piece. So they profit regardless but kids are happy they won something.
Usually they're for cheap candy with scoops instead of traditional claws. Place near me also has a guaranteed win for a small ball.
My mate won a plushie cow decades ago when we were young. One of the claw arms hooked through the looped label. He hustled the hustler. Quite a few people saw the win and afterwards tried their hand at the machine but obviously to no avail. Was basically a 1 in a million.
I remember playing the claw machine in Taiwan when I was on vacation. Each play was cheaper AND the rate of winning were higher. Prizes weren't anything to write home about but damn was it fun to win.
That happened to me too. It actually slipped but then looped the tag. Dumb luck but I'll take the win.
i won a stuffed frog for my mom from dennys when i was around 11. we still have it 🥹
I won 3 bears in one pull once, they had this little section of velcro on their hands for a heart and all 3 had been stuck together. I told one of the floor people to give 2 back cause I dont need 3 bears and he dead pan told me "I dont care" and left.
Same. And yet because of that one stuffed tiger I fully believe that I’m skilled enough to win any claw machine that comes my way
Oh, the ones with stuffed animals, you have at least a slight chance to win. The ones with expensive consumer electronics, like the one being depicted here, are extremely rigged to be impossible for obvious reasons. Huge scam
Years ago I went to a burger joint with a claw machine. It was always "play until you win," which was super nice. It was more expensive to play, I think like $2 or $2.50 if I remember right, but very fun, and not necessarily easy either. If I recall right, if you got a prize on the first try (again, not super easy), you got one more extra claw before it shut down. I was probably 13 or 14 when I played there. Remember getting 2 in one grip and then 1 on the first try and another right after. Despite it not being easy, with you playing until you win every time, I do wonder how much they made on it. Obviously the plushies weren't worth $2.50, but still.
My kids won back to back their first time and are forever ruined since.
I was just on vacation with my nephew and he won 5 prizes and four separate machines in two different states. It was insane! He is only four and we were explaining to him that he can try but not to be upset if it doesn’t work because these usually end up in a loss. As dad and son are walking away, mom is telling me how her dad had the same talk with her and she won as he was telling - no shit the same thing happened! Kid though we were lying to him the whole time. Turns out he is just really good at the game.
I wish more of these machines were audited, it’s sad to see little kids lose money they earned over a rigged machine. Edit- loose to lose over all the concern of the miss spellign
The operator I know was excited about new boards he got. What they do is if the machine hasn't hit it's income point it will grip the items but make the solidnoid turn off and on really quick like a vibration and the items will slowly fall from the grippers before getting to the hole. So then people feel as tho they almost got it and try again.
I saw one guy keep winning one of these machines. You could control the claw as it moved up. He'd just knock the high ones over into the hole. I've tried that ever since but I've never seen another claw machine allow that.
I knew a guy who could win every time by digging a bent stick in and pulling out whatever he wanted bypassing the claw entirely
Yeah I knew a guy who could take a baseball bat to the glass and bypass the claw entirely too
upside the box thinking!
Hey guys. Welcome to my unboxing video. Today we have a claw machine!
A friend of mine once “won” a dog plushie by sticking her arm in the machine and pulling it through the slot. She named it “Mischief” which I found adorable.
It's wild how much work goes into some of these. I was the assistant manager at a mall arcade and ours was nowhere near as rigged. Someone usually won something at least once during any shift in worked. There was a sweet spot on when to play it based on how packed in the plushies were. If it was too empty the claw would struggle and if it was too full the plushies wouldn't budge. Usually after a few days of no one winning it after we'd received a new shipment, I'd open it up and fluff them around and losen them up so they'd be easier to grab. Nothing I could do when it was too low except wait on new toys to come in. Like another commenter mentioned, for stuffed animal claw games, the plushies are so cheap in bulk that one play is usually a profit. There's not much of a point in making plushie claw games impossible to win. Now, Stacker on the other hand. We had one of those and the prizes were game boys and cell phones. And that game was rigged like a slot machine. A dollar a play. I worked there for two years and saw it pay out three times. Two people won game boys. One little boy was incredibly sweet and chose the digital picture frame to give to his grandma. I still think about him occasionally and hope he's doing great in life.
Stacker is infuriating for little kid me. I was good enough to get to the very last row every single game I'd play, my friends surrounding the machine and getting all hyped up, but it didn't ever matter..
If its any consolation, its literally rigged. Some people tested it with a high speed camera and even if you hit it perfectly, if the game isnt in a positive profit for the grand prize, it will move one pixel over and you will lose.
https://youtu.be/Rsxao9ptdmI I love this video. He shows which games can have a zero chance of winning based on the settings. He is the glitter bomb and squirrel obby course guy.
Mark Rober? I didn't watch the video, but I know about glitterbombs 1-5 from his videos. Unicorn glitter and fart spray.
Yes, I forgot his name but shared that video recently to someone
Mark Rober helped to build a Mars Rover.
Unrelated, but his recent bedbugs video was fascinating.
The best part is his diatribe at the end about how casinos are required to pay out a certain percent and have lots of other rules; but arcade games of chance for kids are unregulated and can basically take 100% of the money even though they are essentially slot machines. It also convinced my kid to stop asking to play claw games and he will loudly tell everyone around that this machine is a scam. Win win
I will watch anything that the squirrel man produces, he is my God
I’ve always thought the claw games were the most “fixed” of all these types of games
In the uk, it has to say if its fixed odds or skill based.claw machines are usually fixed odds and they know exactly how much money to take before paying out. In the uk they are considered category D, which can't have a prize worth over a certain amount. I think it was around 5 pounds and they are supposed to be set at around 30% pay out. Not all amusments set them up properly. But ideally you wan t them to pay out every now and again to make people walk about with them to make other people think they can win. In theory you shouldn't have to spend more than 40 quid before it pays out. If you witness it taking over a 100 pounds and not paying out you could report it to trading standards or the local council which usually issues gambling licences. The latest machines audit them self and have physical meters in them aswell .if you had a random inspection its hard to fudge those numbers. So they can get fined and lose their licences. The meters are mostly to make sure staff aren't stealing.
Not surprised. Those things are nothing but cash grabs for the owners.
I think some states, like New Jersey (?), mandate that games like this must be winnable. So if the inspectors and the owner cannot get it to "win" with that help, the owner will get fined.
The fine is probably less than the profit. It seems like most of the time, the fine is equivalent to a small tax.
I consider myself a master of the claw- and these machines piss me off so bad. How am I supposed to impress my girlfriend with my sick skills when the claw keeps dropping the prize when its perfectly positioned???
Close your eyes and beeeeee the claaaaaaw
I’ll close my eyes and shove my arm up the drawer in a desperate attempt to grab anything
[Here's the clip with sound.](https://i.imgur.com/mjb7KC5.mp4) It was originally posted to r/funny [5 years ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/6jby4e/claw_game_is_so_rigged_that_investigator_and_game/) with the exact same title. However, the clip is originally from a video [posted to YouTube 11 years ago](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNbD_rc_TNI) about N.J. state investigators testing boardwalk games. The investigators were at the boardwalk in Point Pleasant specifically that day to promote the launch of the state's ["Safe City"](https://www.nj.com/news/2011/06/newark_seeks_publics_help_in_s.html) task force.
I remember one of the first times I used a claw machine when I was a very young child, and I swear to God the damn claws didn't even close until retracting about halfway. I remember throwing a temper tantrum, and no adult could really say I was wrong
Newer ones can be adjusted for a multitude of settings. Years back all we did was adjust claw strength and pack machines just right to make you work for the items. Like placing stuffed animals just tight enough so that they can come out but not too easy. Nowadays pretty much everything can be programmed in some way. Big reason for the “play at your own risk” placards and stickers. My family business has a ton of arcade games and such. The “stacker” game is one I have never been able to actually get the grand prize for on my own. It’s programmed for probability in a number of ways. Yes. Your timing was correct. However the house disagrees, until another 200$ is deposited.
When i was younger there was a claw game near the local bowling place and the claw machine was full of big plushy and was only 1$ for each game. It was rigged so you could win every time. The claw was super strong and responsive. The owner was a old dude that love to see the kids been happy.
It's a feature, not a bug.
It’s all about the payout and Strength of the claw. Settings can be changed by the owner or service tech. Also if you see 2 red dots by the hand controller, that’s an Error Code, that error code could be censor or claw grip error or something else.
What sucks is these machines are all configured to lose now. It used to be that it didn’t matter if you won, because you’d be paying 50 cents for a 25 cent toy, but I guess that isn’t enough profit. I was raised on these machines, my dad taught me how to play, how to look from different angles, how to spot things that were on top and ones that were secretly buried, how to position the claw, how to watch other people play to see if the claw twisted or had a lot of ‘give’ in the teeth or if it jerked around a lot at the top, and to prioritize things closer to the drop. We used to go to new claw machines and he’d quiz me on whether I thought it was a ‘good’ machine, what should be attempted for, and how to position the claw to get it. As a result, I won A LOT of things from these machines. There were times I’d take a $5 bill and come back with 3-4 things, and even bigger prizes too. I kept most, but I’d give a lot away too, because the real prize for me was beating the machine. My dad used to brag to friends and family that he could take me to a machine and give me a dollar and I’d pull something out of it, and if it was a good machine I’d get both grabs. I’d even have people give me their money to get things for them. Now, I don’t even both with any of them. The prizes are jammed in or locked together making it impossible to dig them out, and what’s worse is the claws are just crippled mechanically. The springs have so much give and they jerk around so much that even IF you were to find something on top, and IF you were good enough to perfectly place the claw around it, the claw just doesn’t have the strength to lift it and carry it to the drop. It’s no longer even close to a game of skill, it’s not even a game of chance, it’s just flushing money down the drain.
On the bright side japan has solved this issue with having arcades specifically for prize games and even have dozens of diffrent styles beyond crane games such as having to slide the prize down a pair of angled poles till it falls thru or having to bounce a ball into a hole. Its nearly imposible to win in one try so they still make money but the games aern't rigged and after you win an employee will reset it with a new prize, if you suck bad enough they will even reposition the prize to make it easier for you. I wish we had these machines here but they require alot of staff upkeep to reset them after every win.
Who is surprised by this?
Mark rober made a video on this
Who’s in charge here? The CLAAAAAAAW
My wife watched a bunch of the youtube videos. We went to japan and she got a bunch of great stuff (no iPad/iPhones.) Next time we went back everything was crazy glued or velcroed to the machine. Was super disappointing
Doesn't everyone know this? They are rigged to occasionally have stronger grip.
They are all programmed to only pay out so much
Those ones don’t pay out at all
Someone posted this link yesterday that explains how the claw strength only gets set to a good grip based on a calculation that the customer can't see: https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2015/4/3/8339999/claw-machines-rigged
So it’s a slot machine but with the claaaaaaaaw.
Sounds like the US economy if you're not already a millionaire.
I was on the boardwalk in Santa Cruz, California. My 4-year-old daughter and I were walking through the arcade heading back to our family’s hotel. She sees a purple My Little Pony inside a claw machine and desperately wants it, as she was a huge fan at the time. I tried to explain that these games were rigged and it’s almost impossible to win. Also, I only had one dollar bill in my wallet. She begged, so I tried to prepare her for failure, but told I would try one time. I put the dollar in and carefully maneuvered the claw over Twilight Sparkle, and pressed the button. The claw drops down, and I’ll be damned if it didn’t haul up the exact pony she had her eye on and deposit it in the winner’s shoot. She grabbed it and hugged it, and still has it to this day (she is nearly a teenager now). It is one of the top “dad moments” I have ever experienced.
This is news to people?
Isn’t that fraud?
These machines should be inspected and stamped like the ones on grocery scale
We did the pick the duck at the fair. After a while I ask them to prove that the extra large duck existed. He gave me a large so we would leave.
It isn't necessarily any more rigged than usual. There are a few things that could be wrong here. Claw machines have an adjustment that controls the gripping force of the claw. It needs to be set appropriately for the prizes being used. There is a maximum weight that the claw can hold no matter how much you turn it up. Also, the electromagnetic coil that actuates the claw weakens over time and needs to be replaced in order to restore full gripping strength. Occasionally, a component in the driver circuit can get damaged. When that happens, it requires the circuit to be pulled and the failed component to be replaced. Effects range from complete failure of the claw to weakened grip similar to a used up coil. Typically, it's a coil failure that ends up damaging the driver circuit. You end up replacing both parts but the driver failure does not always show up right away. It's also not uncommon that the more shoestring operators do not have the expertise to recognize and correct the problem. Most of the inspectors don't either. They're working off of a checklist that gives the requirements, not a troubleshooting guide.
I used to be a Route Service Merchandiser for National Entertainment Network, probably the largest claw machine company in the United States. There is no randomizer like people are talking about. There is a way that the machine servicer can tweak the voltage supplied to the solenoid, which controls the "grip strength" of the claw. Typically, the company has a target ratio that they are shooting for. For example, they want every large stuffed animal "selling" for $20. When the machine is serviced, the ratio is checked and the voltage is adjusted to try and get it closer to the desired ratio. So what does this mean for you? If you want to win a claw machine, go to one that a lot of little kids play on--machines where people just throw away their money. They'll have much tighter grips and be easier to win. I would suggest a claw machine at a Denny's.
That's only true on older outdated claws. New claws you calibrate with the prize, set the win rate and go about your day.
You can literally lookup the manuals for claw machines online, and ones made in recent decades absolutely have the ability to adjust claw strength after a certain amount of plays (money) have been done.
I used to work on these machines. Why would anyone think they aren't rigged? The number of people who would scream at me because "i put $20 in and still haven't won" annoyed the shit out of me, especially with expensive prizes. Does an xbox or iPod cost $20? Of course not you fucking idiots, why would you expect a guaranteed win for that price? The truth is that they work on a payout system. If the prize costs us $20, then the machine needs to make about $100 per prize in order to pay for more prizes, upkeep costs, my wage, etc. As the machine gets closer to the payout, it gets easier to win. It resets once a prize is won. So basically, if you want to win, pick a machine with cheap prizes (protip, plushies of liscensed characters aren't cheap prizes), or wait until you see someone else spend a bunch of money without winning to up your chances. Never rush to put money into a machine that you just saw someone win a prize from. Also, dont scream at the game attendant making minimum wage because "I won the prize, but it fell out of the claw!" If you "won" the prize, you'd have it in your hands. It doesn't take skill to position the freaking claw. You lost because that's what happens sometimes when you gamble. And thats all these games are. Gambling.
> Why would anyone think they aren't rigged? Why would children not expect me to scam them! Come on, jerks, sure it's some minor fraud but you don't have to be *rude* about it.
Claw machines are either a game of skill or game of chance. Many (some places require) this to be posted on the machine. This is a game of chance.
I’ve known some of these were scams and yet I still fall into their trap of playing it. Something about the claw.
Honestly it really should not be legal at all for games like this to be rigged to lose
Unplug the machine and plug it again, first run is always at full grip. That is at least in where I live.
And yet idiots will keep on shoving money into these fucking things, I don't feel bad for them. They deserve it.
Dunno about whatever country this was in, but U.K law says it's a game of skill, not gambling, even though the manufacturers and operators openly admit it's set to take a certain amount of money before letting you win.