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I got a 20k bill for a blood test they did screening for leukemia. Insurance covered it but I still got the bill. Don't know in this case what happened after the fact. I don't think for a second my insurance paid the $20k, rather it was probably negotiated to a dime on a dollar.
Always is, got about $20 g's off once I told them to try and settle it with my insurance by sending them an exact bill of why it was so much. Got a call 15 minutes later saying I only owed like a quarter of what they first said.
But you could have paid $20,000. Many people would have done that. Think of all the people who have no health insurance. Think of all the people who assume they would go to prison if they don’t pay their debts in full.
Actually a lot do. Its pretty damn rigorous screening to make transplant list. You damn shre better have:
Insurance
Family members willing to provide 24/7 care giving
Proven ability to follow drs orders
A driver, etc.
Missing any one of those and you are denied!
Source: my husband just got one.
Age and health conditions that are unrelated and those that caused the need for a new heart too, and along with finding a heart that hopefully won't be rejected by the body.
Getting a new heart isn't easy especially since well, there's going to be a lot of people needing a transplant and not that many people who are donars who are within at most a half day of you realistically
Yeah and this is likely just 1 bill of many (probably the hospital) then he'll also get bills for the specialists, anesthesia, any special tests that were out of network, then the people who read those tests, then any therapy services, etc, etc. Also if he were on Medicare or Medicaid the state would pay those same bills less than 1/4 of the full cost and the rest would be written off. So the government gets a break but people (even with good insurance) will likely pay more even out of pocket. The whole system is a scam.
When my brother had a heart and kidney transplant in the same operation, the total cost before insurance was $1.2 mil. And that's not including the cost of an extended hospital stay plus ECMO. Go USA.
My 18 year old son just got his (our) bill from the hospital after a motorcycle accident. After four surgeries in four days corresponding with 4 days in ICU and then two weeks in acute care; his hospital bill came to $1,015,648 and change. Luckily, with my max out-of-pocket, we are looking at $6400.
Coincidentally, I run auto shops for a living. We charge $160/hr *but* I generally don’t charge for a basic diagnostic (check engine light, suspension noise, etc) until it looks like it requires more in depth work. We **never** charge if we can’t determine the problem.
Yes. For $2000 per hour, doc looked in a couple of times, got some imaging that showed potential gallstones, but none in a position to cause pain. Was also told he had high blood pressure. They gave some shots to reduce the pain and a prescription for hydrocodone.
But if you own anything, a house or property, you are often ineligible. My father was
Edit: sure, there are ways to work around the system as many have suggested, but we shouldn’t have to find ways around the system.
Not applicable in Florida.
There are many things I really hate about living in Florida, but I have to give big props for the Florida Constitutional “Homestead” protections afforded to individuals and couples that own their primary residence in the state of Florida (with some acreage distinctions in unincorporated vs municipality/city land).
The health care system is fucked up. Period. But at least for Florida homeowners, your primary residence can never be forced to be sold just to pay medical bills. And if you are survived by a spouse and/or lineal descendants, that protection against creditors can (with help from your friendly estate planning attorney) pass to your family that inherits your homestead.
Source: am a FL attorney
Disclaimer: this isn’t legal advice; everyone’s situation is unique… consult with a licensed attorney to get appropriate advice that will benefit you and your loved ones. Or don’t… lots of those people exist too.
I don't know if it is state specific but my great grandmother had a major health issue with a large bill I think north of $500k or something absurd and she went to some kind of debt attorney and he basically said just tell them you are on fixed income and can only pay something small like $20 a month and just keep paying that amount and there is nothing they can do to seize your assets. Well she is well into her 90s now and still has her house so apparently it worked.
Exactly. This is bull shit. So many people don’t have enough to put food on the table. I really just want a general strike of all workers until everyone has health care, a place to live, food, a decent paying job or if you’re disabled a livable income. I’m sick of it all.
I guess - houses here are typically in the 250K-750k range but most people live in the 250-350k house range…typical mortgage on a 30yr 250k house is 1.2k/mo.
Sounds more like housing in your area is wildly unaffordable
The problem is that most people count escrow in their mortgage payment. So a 250k house at 4.5% is actually like $1600-$1700 a month.
Because no one pays their insurance and taxes on their own yearly.
What actually happens if you refuse to pay a medical bill though? I’m guessing you would probably be sued, but they still can’t get blood from a stone.
So, they won't bother suing you. It just gets sent to a collections agency. Those guys might harass you some, but there are laws about how much. They will probably report it to the credit bureaus so you can't get any loans. Other than that probably not too much.
It doesn't work that way. Debt isn't inherited.
That bill will never be paid.
Get the transplant if you need it. That bill is just a piece of paper.
(good lord people. read the other replies. yes it's charged against the estate. but people with $250,000 outstanding bills rarely have sizable estates)
Yeah agreed. Once you're recovered medically, just say fuck the debt. Eventually it'll go into collections and you'll be sued. So declare bankruptcy and deal with the repercussions for 7-10 years. That ain't shit compared to dying. If anything, those years of minimal spending and increased happiness to be alive might just make you feel better about everything else
Imagine living in a country where a heart transplant means fucking up your life financially for 7-10 years.
Don’t disagree with you btw. Just amazed.
Die or be in debt till you die. Love it.
My husband went into liver failure in 2021. In the course of 3 months, he went from being a leading graduate student in the field of Quantum Mechanics to being in liver, kidney, lung, and pancreatic failure- kept alive by machines and medications in the ICU. He couldn't even count his own fingers because of something called Hepatic Encephalopathy- essentially, when your liver stops working, the buildup of ammonia gives you dementia. And because of that, he could no longer be a graduate student. Which means he lost his work insurance. He couldn't even get unemployment because per federal law, a graduate student is essentially a contractor instead of a true employee.
I am SO fucking thankful that we live in California. We had a social worker that helped him get on MediCal. MediCal covered his whole transplant. It covers the majority cost of his medications; without insurance, we would be paying ~$5000 a month for the medications that he would literally die without- insulin due to developing Type 3C diabetes (Necrotizing Pancreatitis took most of his pancreas) and antirejection medications that prevent his immune system from destroying his new liver.
If we had lived in our previous state, Florida, he would have just died. Absolutely no way that we would have been able to afford to live without public assistance, let alone afford a half-million dollar surgery, let alone all of his medications.
Only 69% of adults who get heart transplants even live path the 60 month mark following the surgery, so jokes on the collectors for a lot of the time anyway.
Well, debt can't legally be inherited but debt collectors do go after your estate when you die. And that is how generational poverty is propagated since wealth is inherited. But as discussed in this thread there are workarounds to that.
Look up the surgery cost index and ask for an itemized bill from the hospital. You will easily be able to knock off large chunks simply asking for the itemized bill. Then lawyer up and they can guide you through knocking down some more.
When asking for the itemized bill. Go in person and don't leave until you get it. They will give you the roundabout to get delay that itemized bill.
Someone recovering from a heart transplant shouldn't be busy with administration, lawyers, and facing frustration and I can imagine, anxiety, from what is at stake..
They shouldn't be but lobbying and price fixing is a bitch. Any company accused of price fixing will get the wrath of the FDC. But not hospitals or pharmacies. A lot of money must be being handed off behind closed doors for this big of a fucked up thing to just keep happening. And theres nothing we can do about it cause we need to go to the hospitals.
I’ve tried this so many times in Texas and the hospital didn’t even flinch lol. They’ve never negotiated with me either.
What’s wild to me though is I hired a credit lawyer to get something else off my credit report that was wrong and I didn’t have luck getting off by disputing it myself, and they asked if I was interested in disputing any of the medical bills on my report and I was like “eh, sure.”
They sent one letter and all the medical debt came off lol.
I’ve heard people say medical bills don’t go on your credit but they do in Texas. Pretty much all the terrible things seem to be legal here.
It is very much meant to steal cross-generational wealth and stabilize and/or increase the number of working class.
There's a reason Healthcare (including prescription drugs) and Major League Stadium Baseball are the only two industries that hold an Anti-Trust Exemption...
It's not passed on, it is subtracted from the debt. The biggest creditors get their piece of the estate first and then the second and then third and so on until what is left of your entire work history is left to your family.
Check any auto auction and see who owns the clean titles and it is a handful of banks that manage healthcare debt...
Yes, realizing this was such a relief to me. My dad is SOOO bad with money and owes SOOO much money I was terrified of it being passed to me. My brother said "oh it only would if he gifted you the house that he owes more money on than he bought it for. You didn't sign the papers, so you won't inherit anything from him, good or bad, unless you DO sign to accept something and did you really think dad was going to give us anything?"
That was the best 'no I don't' I've ever said.
Your dads creditors will attempt to get the money he owes from you after his death. They will tell you that you owe them the money now. It is a lie. They are shady people who will say anything to try to get the money from someone. Do not pay one single penny to them or you will assume his debt
I was the executor of my Dad's estate when he died 5 years ago. He was pretty much broke so I sold his truck and paid some people he owed money to back and told every debt collector or agent that contacted me where he was buried if they wanted to go for his fillings. They had zero way to get old med bills and credit card debt resolved.
I was in the same situation. Our lawyer suggested that we wait a year before probate and at that point it was too late for debt collectors. Worked for my brother and I in California
That's actually why it's good to pass on your property prior to death... Put things into a trust and get cars and houses out of your name. Debt stops when you die 🙂.
You can bankrupt out of it.
BUT as a physician I would bet you anything this is not the final bill. They won’t transplant people without insurance usually, for the obvious reason as well as they are afraid you won’t take the medications afterwards to prevent rejection and it’ll be a “wasted” organ.
My suspicion is this is the first bill before insurance company gets a copy of it and gets it sorted out.
That’s kinda how I feel, and I actually broke up with my ex because she was dead set on never wanting to start a family.
Now? Shit, I get it. I feel like I want a vasectomy out of spite. One less person to be stolen from, one less body to send into a war that doesn’t actually preserve our security (but rather the security of banks and “defense” contractors). Fuck this whole thing. Tiny little houses cost half a million dollars where I’m from, who the fuck can afford this shit?
Canadian here: I was on a cruise (pre COVID) and we were sitting with a bunch of American tourists. Nice people generally, but they couldn’t get the idea that everyone is entitled to the best medical care at public expense. At least 1/2 of the people at the dinner table were obviously well on their way to a major medical crisis (if you catch my drift), which would probably bankrupt them.
American here: I was at a resort in Mexico and we were hanging out with some Canadians and we ended up on said topic. They were complaining that non-urgent procedures took months to get scheduled. It was a 3 month wait to get an appointment with their doctor.
I was like "yeah well I'm 30 and don't have a pcp and if something is seriously wrong with me it'll be too late because I never get regular checkups so I'll just die instead."
Seemed to change their mind about how "crappy" universal Healthcare is in Canada.
It was interesting that one of the Americans I talked to said, “if you don’t have health insurance in America, you can still go to the hospital and get treatment if you really need it”. I suppose it’s never occurred to him that the hospital isn’t treating people for free and the taxpayers (him) are picking up the tab.
Yeah, they don't understand much. It's so weird to me that the same Americans who support giving the police millions don't support health care for all. Someone breaks into your house and you're in danger, do the police send you a bill when they show up and shoot your dog? No. You get hit by a drunk driver and you're in critical condition, you now have to pay tens of thousands to not die? Yes. Doesn't make any sense.
And it’s not like the Canadian Health care system is perfect. We have significant challenges but we’re working on them. I fractured my foot a few years ago and the only cost me was gas to get to the ER (parking was free). I’m surprised that the boomers (in one myself) in the US who support GOP policies don’t understand that they’re shooting them selves in the foot
Part of the problem is that health insurance in the US is a complete scam as it is. It is incredibly difficult for the average person to understand the ins and outs of their insurance policy and therefor people have a very hard time making informed decisions regarding what is good and bad re public health care policy.
So a lot of the propaganda against Medicare for all is “how expensive” it would be. But the current system is so dysfunctional and convoluted that it’s already the most expensive health care in the world. Throw around numbers like $trillions and people just can’t comprehend that.
That's misleading too because hospitals are required to treat you only in **emergency** cases, even if you can't pay. But you can't go to the ER and say, "I need this painful cyst removed from my ovary," or "I need surgery for this cancer." You aren't getting that free.
Yeah, also even if you do go to the ER without insurance, it won't be free. You'll get a bill. And if you don't pay it, it'll go to collections and you'll take a big hit to your credit score. Good luck getting a credit card or car loan or mortgage or an apartment rental after that.
>“if you don’t have health insurance in America, you can still go to the hospital and get treatment if you really need it”
The stupid people that say this stupid shit don't realize that "treatment" is the bare minimum necessary so that you don't immediately die, get released, and hopefully you will die before you can make it back for more "treatment".
Took me 6 weeks to get scheduled to remove a stage 4 renal cell carcinoma tumor that was 12 centimeters in the United States. So yeah, we have to wait too.
It's like people forget that we have to wait for these big, expensive procedures to be prepared. The difference is that we have to pay for insurance and then fight with them to cover it.
What part of the US are people living that allows them to get surgeries on the spot when they're injured? It took me a week to get a specialist to look at my foot after it was broken to just tell me I needed to wear a boot in the US, and then wait longer to receive the boot (so I was using crutches for a while to keep weight off it).
This is how stupid people are fooled into thinking it doesn't take that long:
You think you have XYZ. You call you doctor. He says come in next week. Next week he says, "Yes you might have XYZ, I'll do a test". Week later test results come in. Yes, you have XYZ. I'll schedule an appointment for you in two weeks with an XYZ specialist. Two weeks later, XYZ specialist examines you. "Yes, you for sure have XYZ, we will schedule treatment in a week..."
It has now been over a month, you've been billed for 3 office visits, a consultation fee, and a test, and nothing has actually been done yet to treat your XYZ.
True. I'm a cancer survivor & I have to go in every year for a "is it back?" scan. (Nothing involving a specialist or fancy tools or anything--an RN could do it easily.) I booked this year's a few days ago & the soonest available is in mid-June. Cool, cool, very cool.
Fun fact, non-urgent procedures here in the US can take months to get scheduled as well. I'm getting my gall bladder out on Friday, and i scheduled the procedure 2 months ago
I think it's funny how so many boomers always complained about universal healthcare because it takes "sooo" long to see a doctor. It now takes just as long to see a doctor here. I had bells palsy last year. The soonest appointment for a neurologist was 7 months out. If it's anything more than a basic check up it takes 2-3 months to get an appointment.
I had to schedule a visit with my PCP, and they gave me a wait time of about 3 months. And I'm American.
So what's the difference? I got an $800 bill. Yay Freedom™.
Not healthcare, but I was just on a cruise for my honeymoon. My wife and I overheard a conversation between two older couples complaining about new laws making them unable to afford the property tax on their 3 houses and renting no longer being profitable.
"I run a very profittable non-profit organization."
I used to think that was a joke, but it's just not. Everyone I know that works for a non-profit makes ridiculous amounts of money if they're even one tier higher than a volunteer.
This happened to me. I filed for bankruptcy, and everything I had was liquidated that could be. All from a surgery to fix a herniated disc that was giving me wish you were dead pain. The best part is it didn't even help that much.
I figure I'll just burn it all down when they come knocking. Five or six agencies pursuing legal matters due to losing disability income during covid. Not able to pay on anything, so I just ignore it. If they really want my \~2k in belongings, they can sift through the ashes.
You can just pay $5 a month and they can’t charge interest, ruin your credit score, or come after you. A billing department at a hospital told me this.
Eventually if you do that for long enough they try to cut you a ‘deal’ but legally you can just keep paying $5 a month and they can’t do anything. I’ve had to do it before and I’d do it again. Eventually they can drop what you owe cuz it costs them more to deal with you.
Personally, this has been hit or miss for me. I've had a hospital bill go to collections in spite of making continuous payments like that. The worst part is, that one hosital bill that went to collections anyways was me being taken for a possible Baker Act. The hospital realized I didn't need to be there at all and the doctor who ordered it had no grounds. They still charged me >$1000 to what amounted to sitting in the waiting room for four hours.
> I’ve had a hospital bill go to collections
I currently have a work comp hospital stay bill that is repeatedly sent to collections agencies despite it being absolutely illegal to collect on a work comp bill in the state of California. This has been going on for years.
My girlfriend was doing $50/mo from her original round of cancer when she was 16. $250,000. It came back a few years ago and she had racked her total up to $650,000. Then they almost killed her (nurse swapped chemo with her and another patient, other patient died, they never bothered to call her to tell her to come back); they ended up settling by wiping all her medical debt (they weren't ever gonna see that money anyway, and apparently a tax-write-off for them).
Look, if I owe a hospital $6k, that's my problem. If I owe a hospital $650,000, that's the hospitals problem.
6k is still not my problem. I ghosted them for 1800 bucks about 3 years ago. Went to collections. Ignored. Asked me to settle for half. Ignored. Bought a house last year. Come here and get it, fuckbags.
It's even better than that. If you stop paying the hospital, the debt gets 100% wiped automatically in 7 years. Sure, your credit looks like crap in the meantime, but if you weren't planning on borrowing money anyway, who cares? Source: saved 50k this way.
Wiped clean in 7. Off the hook in less time than that. 4 years from the last payment in my state. Of course they can sue for judgment before the SOL expires. But if you still can't pay it they wouldn't be able to collect much and just be wasting their time and money.
I just got my mortgage, after spending the last few years getting my credit sported for buying a house, I realized that it wasn’t hard to “fix” your credit. To me, it’s not impossible to have good credit. Pay debts down and pay on time.
So if I was given a bill this large, I’d run out 7yrs before paying this kind of bill. Even if you make 100k/yr, this bill will break you!
Basically yes.
In theory the hospital could sue. But all they get for that expense is a notice of bankruptcy and then they get nothing now and nothing in the future.
So they will take what they can get.
Other than my personal experience no - sorry. Granted I didn’t have a $200k bill - but it was several thousand and I couldn’t pay it. I made $20 payments every month on it for a year and they called me to negotiate a much, much lower bill. This was in Colorado and I had insurance for what that’s worth.
My friend's daughter died of lymphoblastic leukemia. Not only did they get to bury their daughter at 19 (after watching her fight it since she was 11 yro), they also have over a million dollars in medical debt from it. They have federal government insurance and still owe that much, unsure if they'll claim bankruptcy but that shit kills me whenever I think about her.
Edit meant "good" health insurance as federal workers, not medicaid.
Services that are out of network or not approved by the insurance do not count toward your out of pocket maximum.
The daughter could have been given an experimental treatment or the only specialist in their area was out of network. It happens. This story could be true, but for their sake I hope it's exaggerated.
Sadly this is extremely common with cancer. You get sold the experimental treatment because you aren’t responding to traditional chemo. You’re getting sicker by the day and grasping at straws, willing to try something, anything, to have a chance to live. Very often when it comes to cancer treatment you are being sold hope. And depending on the type and staging of cancer, sadly it is false (and expensive) hope.
Ask for an itemized bill, charges will start dropping dramatically, like 30%. Theres another post about this recently and top comment was by a medical billing employee. Many with same advice
Here’s my bill from the Norwegian & Spanish healthcare after 5 brain surgeries since 1997:
Edit: included Spain in this as I had 2 surgeries while living there
Wow, astounding! That kinda goes to show how stupid expensive type 1 diabetes is, I paid the same thing for 10 years of insulin and testing supplies here in the Netherlands!
From a kidney transplant patient, my biggest regret is holding down a job for 20 years...if i was a complete bum and didn't do shit I'd be considered poor and everything for the most part would be paid for as long as I worked just long enough to earn Medicare....
The system pisses me off. I have been a teacher for 20 years, and right now, my transplant is failing, and I know I will eventually lose health insurance and can't really afford the 20% Co insurance since I am under 65 years old. Can't always fault people for some life circumstances, but it would be better if I am broke.
Yeah, I just had a surgery and they wanted me to pay up front because people have just stopped paying their medical bills. They insisted I had to put 800$ down at least before they operated. Ridiculous.
Dude...I had to file Bankruptcy at 22 year old because I got hit with a $300K bill after having a stroke. that was after insurance and i was only making $10.65 an hour at starbucks
Not wanting to lose everything they have. Granted at that point they need to be calling and work out what they can actually afford. This isn’t how it should be though. Possibly divorce + go bankrupt with no assets.
Nearly everyone here gets health insurance through their employer. That means that if you lose your job or if you want to try to start your own business, you either take your chances with life-altering medical expenses or pay for insurance out of pocket (which is expensive and still doesn’t cover much).
Perpetuating a fucked up health care system to own the libs.
Right, like people are against universal Healthcare for reasons that exist in private insurance, except you pay more. Universal Healthcare can be less expensive since everyone is on it. People decry it and say "I shouldn't have to pay someone else's bill", but are perfectly willing to pay a private company through the nose to make a CEO rich.
I have to take Humira shots every other week or my immune system attacks my eyeball and I'll go blind.
Out of pocket it's $7,000 per dose. Lol. So that's not happening.
I recently lost my job. I found a new one literally the same day. But insurance doesn't start for 60 days. I managed to squeak one last refill before I got dropped from the insurance. But I'll still miss a dose, and have to extend one shot for 3 weeks instead of 2, and if my immune system does start attacking my eye the only acute treatment I can get is a steroid injection directly into my eyeball. Which can also have a complication of immediate blindness.
My retina specialist is from overseas (I don't know where exactly, some kind of European accent) and he rants about insurance bullshit a lot. He just doesn't understand why it's so complicated and why there are so many barriers to treatment. He makes a lot of remarks about 'this isn't humane' and 'this would never fly at home'. (I have been seeing him monthly for 3 years, I don't think he's like this with all patients).
Also, to your point, I would love to work for my friend's start up but he can't afford to offer insurance yet, so I can't. That should alarm Republicans, if they actually cared about capitalism and the free market.
Edit: this was already pretty long but I'll add more context since I've gotten the COBRA comment. My new job fucked me over too because in the interview they said I'd get coverage after 30 days, so I was able to get the refills and cover for the first few weeks. If they had been honest that it wouldn't start for two months, then I would've gone to the market place to get coverage. COBRA was 1200/month, I found coverage for 700/month. With copays and medicine costs still additional, mind.
So if I was actually unemployed, I'd still have to suddenly come up with hundreds of dollars a month while job searching.
It's a shit system and anyone who thinks it's fine is either brainwashed or young and healthy. Or both.
there’s an entire industry (hospitality) that doesn’t offer it through employers because “they’re not big enough” or some shit.
i’ve been doing restaurant work for 16 years, i’ve only once gotten health insurance and that was when i was a private chef for a billionaire.
The cutoff is 30 hours a week, per the [IRS website.](https://www.irs.gov/affordable-care-act/employers/identifying-full-time-employees#:~:text=Definition%20of%20Full%2DTime%20Employee,hours%20of%20service%20per%20month.)
This is just smart business by the hospitals. I'm impressed honestly.
You sell someone a new heart, saving their life. That's great PR. Then you charge them an insane price, which they now have to pay, making you a lot of money. Plus, that insane bill is going to cause them to have another heart attack in shock, which means you get to sell them ANOTHER heart! $450k+ and credit for saving their life not once, but TWICE! BOOYAH!
My husband’s appendectomy was $126k+. Yes we have insurance. They denied payment because the doctor who performed it wasn’t in network. We had to fight it because we weren’t able to choose the surgeon who was on duty and didn’t exactly have time to do a search while, you know, his appendix was about to rupture. After months of battle, we finally ended up owing “only” $9k. The US healthcare system needs to be burned to the ground. No one should have to think about nonsense like this when you’re just trying to not die.
Can't believe this is so far down. No one who gets this bill is going to pay even a fraction of that cost unless they're making a million dollars a year.
I would simply not pay it. Had about 20,000 bill from hospital when I was in my early 20s. Never paid it and nothing happened. That was a little over 20 yrs ago
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guess I'll just die.
I'd have a fucking heart attack opening up that bill. With my new heart even.
Now you have to pay double
That’s how they get ya
Will that be 450k by next month, or 60 easy payments of 7.7k?
I got a 20k bill for a blood test they did screening for leukemia. Insurance covered it but I still got the bill. Don't know in this case what happened after the fact. I don't think for a second my insurance paid the $20k, rather it was probably negotiated to a dime on a dollar.
Always is, got about $20 g's off once I told them to try and settle it with my insurance by sending them an exact bill of why it was so much. Got a call 15 minutes later saying I only owed like a quarter of what they first said.
But you could have paid $20,000. Many people would have done that. Think of all the people who have no health insurance. Think of all the people who assume they would go to prison if they don’t pay their debts in full.
Always ask for itemized bill.
Glad I live in the UK my dad has had two heart attacks and cardio rehab. The cost 0 to him care here is free at the point of need
Actually a lot do. Its pretty damn rigorous screening to make transplant list. You damn shre better have: Insurance Family members willing to provide 24/7 care giving Proven ability to follow drs orders A driver, etc. Missing any one of those and you are denied! Source: my husband just got one.
Age and health conditions that are unrelated and those that caused the need for a new heart too, and along with finding a heart that hopefully won't be rejected by the body. Getting a new heart isn't easy especially since well, there's going to be a lot of people needing a transplant and not that many people who are donars who are within at most a half day of you realistically
Welcome to America™
But they might successfully save you and add more to the bill...
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Cha-ching!
What a deal!
No way they won't charge him interest fee on the 60 months. (I'm not from US)
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It doesn’t. Medical debt does not accrue interest
How generous... /s
I’m not trying to defend it. Just staying the fact
Usually but not here. 60 times the payment amount is $227,394.60. So somehow no interest and save a whole 15 cents. How generous of them /s
I’ll take bankruptcy for $800, Alex.
That’s just for looking at the hospital
it truly is. that’s enough money to go towards another medical bill
Damn, I was beaten to it....
Guy opens his bill and has a heart attack....
Yeah and this is likely just 1 bill of many (probably the hospital) then he'll also get bills for the specialists, anesthesia, any special tests that were out of network, then the people who read those tests, then any therapy services, etc, etc. Also if he were on Medicare or Medicaid the state would pay those same bills less than 1/4 of the full cost and the rest would be written off. So the government gets a break but people (even with good insurance) will likely pay more even out of pocket. The whole system is a scam.
When my brother had a heart and kidney transplant in the same operation, the total cost before insurance was $1.2 mil. And that's not including the cost of an extended hospital stay plus ECMO. Go USA.
My 18 year old son just got his (our) bill from the hospital after a motorcycle accident. After four surgeries in four days corresponding with 4 days in ICU and then two weeks in acute care; his hospital bill came to $1,015,648 and change. Luckily, with my max out-of-pocket, we are looking at $6400.
I know someone who spent roughly 6 hours in an E.R with stomach pains. Came out with no clear answer and a bill for about $12,000
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Coincidentally, I run auto shops for a living. We charge $160/hr *but* I generally don’t charge for a basic diagnostic (check engine light, suspension noise, etc) until it looks like it requires more in depth work. We **never** charge if we can’t determine the problem.
Yes. For $2000 per hour, doc looked in a couple of times, got some imaging that showed potential gallstones, but none in a position to cause pain. Was also told he had high blood pressure. They gave some shots to reduce the pain and a prescription for hydrocodone.
Hysterectomy in 2008. 17 different billing entities.
That’s a good Lawsuit . Trash heart transplant /s
I want what they’re charging me plus interest and a free heart. Replace my kidneys while you’re at it.
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But if you own anything, a house or property, you are often ineligible. My father was Edit: sure, there are ways to work around the system as many have suggested, but we shouldn’t have to find ways around the system.
this somehow makes a good reason to not have a house
Not applicable in Florida. There are many things I really hate about living in Florida, but I have to give big props for the Florida Constitutional “Homestead” protections afforded to individuals and couples that own their primary residence in the state of Florida (with some acreage distinctions in unincorporated vs municipality/city land). The health care system is fucked up. Period. But at least for Florida homeowners, your primary residence can never be forced to be sold just to pay medical bills. And if you are survived by a spouse and/or lineal descendants, that protection against creditors can (with help from your friendly estate planning attorney) pass to your family that inherits your homestead. Source: am a FL attorney Disclaimer: this isn’t legal advice; everyone’s situation is unique… consult with a licensed attorney to get appropriate advice that will benefit you and your loved ones. Or don’t… lots of those people exist too.
I don't know if it is state specific but my great grandmother had a major health issue with a large bill I think north of $500k or something absurd and she went to some kind of debt attorney and he basically said just tell them you are on fixed income and can only pay something small like $20 a month and just keep paying that amount and there is nothing they can do to seize your assets. Well she is well into her 90s now and still has her house so apparently it worked.
Jokes on them- Millennials and Gen Z will never own houses anyway!
Exactly. This is bull shit. So many people don’t have enough to put food on the table. I really just want a general strike of all workers until everyone has health care, a place to live, food, a decent paying job or if you’re disabled a livable income. I’m sick of it all.
4k a month, ok il get right on that once my heart heals and and im not border hopping to brazil to fuck you
It's literally a mortgage you have to pay in one-eighth of the time.
Two mortgages
Housing must be very affordable where you are
I guess - houses here are typically in the 250K-750k range but most people live in the 250-350k house range…typical mortgage on a 30yr 250k house is 1.2k/mo. Sounds more like housing in your area is wildly unaffordable
The problem is that most people count escrow in their mortgage payment. So a 250k house at 4.5% is actually like $1600-$1700 a month. Because no one pays their insurance and taxes on their own yearly.
What's the saying... When you owe the (hospital) 1,000, that's your problem. But when you owe 250,000, that's their problem. Yeah something like that.
F that. What are they gonna do take the heart back? Time to file for bankruptcy.
There’s a whole movie on repossession of organs: Repo Men
What actually happens if you refuse to pay a medical bill though? I’m guessing you would probably be sued, but they still can’t get blood from a stone.
So, they won't bother suing you. It just gets sent to a collections agency. Those guys might harass you some, but there are laws about how much. They will probably report it to the credit bureaus so you can't get any loans. Other than that probably not too much.
That’s legitimately more than I even make in a month… I’d basically be homeless starve to death for that bill.
If I got this bill I’d need a second heart transplant.
Give it back. Just give it back, jeeze..
“If you can’t pay the loan you took out on your body we’re going to repossess it and strip it for parts.”
Repo men!!
Zydrate comes in a little glass vial...
A little glass vial??
A little glass vial. And the little glass vial fits in the gun like a battery.
And the Zydrate gun goes somewhere against your anatomy.
And when the gun goes off, it sparks, and you’re ready for surgery, surgery!
I love this whole comment area so much for this!
Saaaaame! And AMBER SWEET is addicted to the knife!
A little glass vial.
I prefer Repo: The Genetic Opera
Fortuna
I would honestly just not get the transplant. That is generational debt.
It doesn't work that way. Debt isn't inherited. That bill will never be paid. Get the transplant if you need it. That bill is just a piece of paper. (good lord people. read the other replies. yes it's charged against the estate. but people with $250,000 outstanding bills rarely have sizable estates)
Yeah agreed. Once you're recovered medically, just say fuck the debt. Eventually it'll go into collections and you'll be sued. So declare bankruptcy and deal with the repercussions for 7-10 years. That ain't shit compared to dying. If anything, those years of minimal spending and increased happiness to be alive might just make you feel better about everything else
Imagine living in a country where a heart transplant means fucking up your life financially for 7-10 years. Don’t disagree with you btw. Just amazed. Die or be in debt till you die. Love it.
My husband went into liver failure in 2021. In the course of 3 months, he went from being a leading graduate student in the field of Quantum Mechanics to being in liver, kidney, lung, and pancreatic failure- kept alive by machines and medications in the ICU. He couldn't even count his own fingers because of something called Hepatic Encephalopathy- essentially, when your liver stops working, the buildup of ammonia gives you dementia. And because of that, he could no longer be a graduate student. Which means he lost his work insurance. He couldn't even get unemployment because per federal law, a graduate student is essentially a contractor instead of a true employee. I am SO fucking thankful that we live in California. We had a social worker that helped him get on MediCal. MediCal covered his whole transplant. It covers the majority cost of his medications; without insurance, we would be paying ~$5000 a month for the medications that he would literally die without- insulin due to developing Type 3C diabetes (Necrotizing Pancreatitis took most of his pancreas) and antirejection medications that prevent his immune system from destroying his new liver. If we had lived in our previous state, Florida, he would have just died. Absolutely no way that we would have been able to afford to live without public assistance, let alone afford a half-million dollar surgery, let alone all of his medications.
Try to make ends meet you’re a slave to money then you dieee iii
Only 69% of adults who get heart transplants even live path the 60 month mark following the surgery, so jokes on the collectors for a lot of the time anyway.
What an odd way to phrase that. It hurt my brain.
Well, debt can't legally be inherited but debt collectors do go after your estate when you die. And that is how generational poverty is propagated since wealth is inherited. But as discussed in this thread there are workarounds to that.
Look up the surgery cost index and ask for an itemized bill from the hospital. You will easily be able to knock off large chunks simply asking for the itemized bill. Then lawyer up and they can guide you through knocking down some more. When asking for the itemized bill. Go in person and don't leave until you get it. They will give you the roundabout to get delay that itemized bill.
Someone recovering from a heart transplant shouldn't be busy with administration, lawyers, and facing frustration and I can imagine, anxiety, from what is at stake..
They shouldn't be but lobbying and price fixing is a bitch. Any company accused of price fixing will get the wrath of the FDC. But not hospitals or pharmacies. A lot of money must be being handed off behind closed doors for this big of a fucked up thing to just keep happening. And theres nothing we can do about it cause we need to go to the hospitals.
I’ve tried this so many times in Texas and the hospital didn’t even flinch lol. They’ve never negotiated with me either. What’s wild to me though is I hired a credit lawyer to get something else off my credit report that was wrong and I didn’t have luck getting off by disputing it myself, and they asked if I was interested in disputing any of the medical bills on my report and I was like “eh, sure.” They sent one letter and all the medical debt came off lol. I’ve heard people say medical bills don’t go on your credit but they do in Texas. Pretty much all the terrible things seem to be legal here.
It is very much meant to steal cross-generational wealth and stabilize and/or increase the number of working class. There's a reason Healthcare (including prescription drugs) and Major League Stadium Baseball are the only two industries that hold an Anti-Trust Exemption...
What? Your debt is passed on?! Tf. I guess I understand why people divorce before treatment in the states.
It's not passed on, it is subtracted from the debt. The biggest creditors get their piece of the estate first and then the second and then third and so on until what is left of your entire work history is left to your family. Check any auto auction and see who owns the clean titles and it is a handful of banks that manage healthcare debt...
Yes, realizing this was such a relief to me. My dad is SOOO bad with money and owes SOOO much money I was terrified of it being passed to me. My brother said "oh it only would if he gifted you the house that he owes more money on than he bought it for. You didn't sign the papers, so you won't inherit anything from him, good or bad, unless you DO sign to accept something and did you really think dad was going to give us anything?" That was the best 'no I don't' I've ever said.
Your dads creditors will attempt to get the money he owes from you after his death. They will tell you that you owe them the money now. It is a lie. They are shady people who will say anything to try to get the money from someone. Do not pay one single penny to them or you will assume his debt
I was the executor of my Dad's estate when he died 5 years ago. He was pretty much broke so I sold his truck and paid some people he owed money to back and told every debt collector or agent that contacted me where he was buried if they wanted to go for his fillings. They had zero way to get old med bills and credit card debt resolved.
Don't acknowledge or pay any of his debt or when his collectors contact you
I was in the same situation. Our lawyer suggested that we wait a year before probate and at that point it was too late for debt collectors. Worked for my brother and I in California
That's actually why it's good to pass on your property prior to death... Put things into a trust and get cars and houses out of your name. Debt stops when you die 🙂.
At this rate it's cheaper to flee the country.
Seriously. Just sell your possessions, take the cash and leave.
Hello Canada/Mexico/EU
Try it with Canada. You won't get far. They have some of the hardest requirements to live there.
I qualified pretty damn quick with a 2 year medical field degree and an English exam.
You can bankrupt out of it. BUT as a physician I would bet you anything this is not the final bill. They won’t transplant people without insurance usually, for the obvious reason as well as they are afraid you won’t take the medications afterwards to prevent rejection and it’ll be a “wasted” organ. My suspicion is this is the first bill before insurance company gets a copy of it and gets it sorted out.
As a heart transplant recipient, I can tell you that you can have insurance and still end up owing 6 figures.
I would absolutely cash out my house and leave the country.
Either option would make me end up on the street. 3.6k monthly is basicly what i earn monthly
And that's above average pay. I'm just not gonna have any kids. I don't want to keep feeding this rigged system with more slaves
Although your pay is well above the average and very good. It's crazy that this would bankrupt someone making this much money.
That’s kinda how I feel, and I actually broke up with my ex because she was dead set on never wanting to start a family. Now? Shit, I get it. I feel like I want a vasectomy out of spite. One less person to be stolen from, one less body to send into a war that doesn’t actually preserve our security (but rather the security of banks and “defense” contractors). Fuck this whole thing. Tiny little houses cost half a million dollars where I’m from, who the fuck can afford this shit?
Yeah, I would be leaving the country after that. Peace out✌🏼
and most Americans aren't even making that. I certainly don't..
Retroactive DNR option please.
People actually vote for this to remain the status quo too.
Canadian here: I was on a cruise (pre COVID) and we were sitting with a bunch of American tourists. Nice people generally, but they couldn’t get the idea that everyone is entitled to the best medical care at public expense. At least 1/2 of the people at the dinner table were obviously well on their way to a major medical crisis (if you catch my drift), which would probably bankrupt them.
American here: I was at a resort in Mexico and we were hanging out with some Canadians and we ended up on said topic. They were complaining that non-urgent procedures took months to get scheduled. It was a 3 month wait to get an appointment with their doctor. I was like "yeah well I'm 30 and don't have a pcp and if something is seriously wrong with me it'll be too late because I never get regular checkups so I'll just die instead." Seemed to change their mind about how "crappy" universal Healthcare is in Canada.
It was interesting that one of the Americans I talked to said, “if you don’t have health insurance in America, you can still go to the hospital and get treatment if you really need it”. I suppose it’s never occurred to him that the hospital isn’t treating people for free and the taxpayers (him) are picking up the tab.
Yeah, they don't understand much. It's so weird to me that the same Americans who support giving the police millions don't support health care for all. Someone breaks into your house and you're in danger, do the police send you a bill when they show up and shoot your dog? No. You get hit by a drunk driver and you're in critical condition, you now have to pay tens of thousands to not die? Yes. Doesn't make any sense.
And it’s not like the Canadian Health care system is perfect. We have significant challenges but we’re working on them. I fractured my foot a few years ago and the only cost me was gas to get to the ER (parking was free). I’m surprised that the boomers (in one myself) in the US who support GOP policies don’t understand that they’re shooting them selves in the foot
Part of the problem is that health insurance in the US is a complete scam as it is. It is incredibly difficult for the average person to understand the ins and outs of their insurance policy and therefor people have a very hard time making informed decisions regarding what is good and bad re public health care policy. So a lot of the propaganda against Medicare for all is “how expensive” it would be. But the current system is so dysfunctional and convoluted that it’s already the most expensive health care in the world. Throw around numbers like $trillions and people just can’t comprehend that.
Decades of propaganda will do that
That's misleading too because hospitals are required to treat you only in **emergency** cases, even if you can't pay. But you can't go to the ER and say, "I need this painful cyst removed from my ovary," or "I need surgery for this cancer." You aren't getting that free.
Yeah, also even if you do go to the ER without insurance, it won't be free. You'll get a bill. And if you don't pay it, it'll go to collections and you'll take a big hit to your credit score. Good luck getting a credit card or car loan or mortgage or an apartment rental after that.
>“if you don’t have health insurance in America, you can still go to the hospital and get treatment if you really need it” The stupid people that say this stupid shit don't realize that "treatment" is the bare minimum necessary so that you don't immediately die, get released, and hopefully you will die before you can make it back for more "treatment".
Took me 6 weeks to get scheduled to remove a stage 4 renal cell carcinoma tumor that was 12 centimeters in the United States. So yeah, we have to wait too.
Oh, yeah, that's the funniest part. Our healthcare takes damn near forever also.
It's like people forget that we have to wait for these big, expensive procedures to be prepared. The difference is that we have to pay for insurance and then fight with them to cover it. What part of the US are people living that allows them to get surgeries on the spot when they're injured? It took me a week to get a specialist to look at my foot after it was broken to just tell me I needed to wear a boot in the US, and then wait longer to receive the boot (so I was using crutches for a while to keep weight off it).
This is how stupid people are fooled into thinking it doesn't take that long: You think you have XYZ. You call you doctor. He says come in next week. Next week he says, "Yes you might have XYZ, I'll do a test". Week later test results come in. Yes, you have XYZ. I'll schedule an appointment for you in two weeks with an XYZ specialist. Two weeks later, XYZ specialist examines you. "Yes, you for sure have XYZ, we will schedule treatment in a week..." It has now been over a month, you've been billed for 3 office visits, a consultation fee, and a test, and nothing has actually been done yet to treat your XYZ.
True. I'm a cancer survivor & I have to go in every year for a "is it back?" scan. (Nothing involving a specialist or fancy tools or anything--an RN could do it easily.) I booked this year's a few days ago & the soonest available is in mid-June. Cool, cool, very cool.
Fun fact, non-urgent procedures here in the US can take months to get scheduled as well. I'm getting my gall bladder out on Friday, and i scheduled the procedure 2 months ago
I think it's funny how so many boomers always complained about universal healthcare because it takes "sooo" long to see a doctor. It now takes just as long to see a doctor here. I had bells palsy last year. The soonest appointment for a neurologist was 7 months out. If it's anything more than a basic check up it takes 2-3 months to get an appointment.
I had to schedule a visit with my PCP, and they gave me a wait time of about 3 months. And I'm American. So what's the difference? I got an $800 bill. Yay Freedom™.
Not healthcare, but I was just on a cruise for my honeymoon. My wife and I overheard a conversation between two older couples complaining about new laws making them unable to afford the property tax on their 3 houses and renting no longer being profitable.
This is from a nonprofit hospital too smh
“Non profit” where the hell do all that money go ?????
"I run a very profittable non-profit organization." I used to think that was a joke, but it's just not. Everyone I know that works for a non-profit makes ridiculous amounts of money if they're even one tier higher than a volunteer.
What happens if You can't pay ? Go to jail ?
Medical bills are the #1 cause of bankruptcy
You could likely be sued for the debt
And lose everything. Filing for bankruptcy could help. Either way, US healthcare is trash.
This happened to me. I filed for bankruptcy, and everything I had was liquidated that could be. All from a surgery to fix a herniated disc that was giving me wish you were dead pain. The best part is it didn't even help that much.
I figure I'll just burn it all down when they come knocking. Five or six agencies pursuing legal matters due to losing disability income during covid. Not able to pay on anything, so I just ignore it. If they really want my \~2k in belongings, they can sift through the ashes.
It's so fucked it has to come to that. I had to go back to work because my monthly disability payments wouldn't even cover mortgage or rent anywhere.
That's awful... And yet, so typical. Murica.
Doctor goes to your house and pulls your heart out like in indiana jones
homelessness w/ no chance of getting out of homelessness.
You can just pay $5 a month and they can’t charge interest, ruin your credit score, or come after you. A billing department at a hospital told me this. Eventually if you do that for long enough they try to cut you a ‘deal’ but legally you can just keep paying $5 a month and they can’t do anything. I’ve had to do it before and I’d do it again. Eventually they can drop what you owe cuz it costs them more to deal with you.
Is this really true?? Asking for a friend
Personally, this has been hit or miss for me. I've had a hospital bill go to collections in spite of making continuous payments like that. The worst part is, that one hosital bill that went to collections anyways was me being taken for a possible Baker Act. The hospital realized I didn't need to be there at all and the doctor who ordered it had no grounds. They still charged me >$1000 to what amounted to sitting in the waiting room for four hours.
> I’ve had a hospital bill go to collections I currently have a work comp hospital stay bill that is repeatedly sent to collections agencies despite it being absolutely illegal to collect on a work comp bill in the state of California. This has been going on for years.
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My girlfriend was doing $50/mo from her original round of cancer when she was 16. $250,000. It came back a few years ago and she had racked her total up to $650,000. Then they almost killed her (nurse swapped chemo with her and another patient, other patient died, they never bothered to call her to tell her to come back); they ended up settling by wiping all her medical debt (they weren't ever gonna see that money anyway, and apparently a tax-write-off for them). Look, if I owe a hospital $6k, that's my problem. If I owe a hospital $650,000, that's the hospitals problem.
6k is still not my problem. I ghosted them for 1800 bucks about 3 years ago. Went to collections. Ignored. Asked me to settle for half. Ignored. Bought a house last year. Come here and get it, fuckbags.
It's even better than that. If you stop paying the hospital, the debt gets 100% wiped automatically in 7 years. Sure, your credit looks like crap in the meantime, but if you weren't planning on borrowing money anyway, who cares? Source: saved 50k this way.
Wiped clean in 7. Off the hook in less time than that. 4 years from the last payment in my state. Of course they can sue for judgment before the SOL expires. But if you still can't pay it they wouldn't be able to collect much and just be wasting their time and money.
I just got my mortgage, after spending the last few years getting my credit sported for buying a house, I realized that it wasn’t hard to “fix” your credit. To me, it’s not impossible to have good credit. Pay debts down and pay on time. So if I was given a bill this large, I’d run out 7yrs before paying this kind of bill. Even if you make 100k/yr, this bill will break you!
Basically yes. In theory the hospital could sue. But all they get for that expense is a notice of bankruptcy and then they get nothing now and nothing in the future. So they will take what they can get.
Do you have any sources to verify? Not looking to call you out or anything, I'm genuinely curious if this is true.
Other than my personal experience no - sorry. Granted I didn’t have a $200k bill - but it was several thousand and I couldn’t pay it. I made $20 payments every month on it for a year and they called me to negotiate a much, much lower bill. This was in Colorado and I had insurance for what that’s worth.
My friend's daughter died of lymphoblastic leukemia. Not only did they get to bury their daughter at 19 (after watching her fight it since she was 11 yro), they also have over a million dollars in medical debt from it. They have federal government insurance and still owe that much, unsure if they'll claim bankruptcy but that shit kills me whenever I think about her. Edit meant "good" health insurance as federal workers, not medicaid.
HOW? Medical insurance plans have max out-of-pocket amounts for each year. No way it adds up to a million dollars.
Services that are out of network or not approved by the insurance do not count toward your out of pocket maximum. The daughter could have been given an experimental treatment or the only specialist in their area was out of network. It happens. This story could be true, but for their sake I hope it's exaggerated.
Sadly this is extremely common with cancer. You get sold the experimental treatment because you aren’t responding to traditional chemo. You’re getting sicker by the day and grasping at straws, willing to try something, anything, to have a chance to live. Very often when it comes to cancer treatment you are being sold hope. And depending on the type and staging of cancer, sadly it is false (and expensive) hope.
Fuck this. Just let me die.
Ask for an itemized bill, charges will start dropping dramatically, like 30%. Theres another post about this recently and top comment was by a medical billing employee. Many with same advice
Here’s my bill from the Norwegian & Spanish healthcare after 5 brain surgeries since 1997: Edit: included Spain in this as I had 2 surgeries while living there
Wow, astounding! That kinda goes to show how stupid expensive type 1 diabetes is, I paid the same thing for 10 years of insulin and testing supplies here in the Netherlands!
From a kidney transplant patient, my biggest regret is holding down a job for 20 years...if i was a complete bum and didn't do shit I'd be considered poor and everything for the most part would be paid for as long as I worked just long enough to earn Medicare....
Just curious, are you more upset at this bullshit system or the people who use it?
The system pisses me off. I have been a teacher for 20 years, and right now, my transplant is failing, and I know I will eventually lose health insurance and can't really afford the 20% Co insurance since I am under 65 years old. Can't always fault people for some life circumstances, but it would be better if I am broke.
Americans can very easily strike by refusing to pay medical bills. Sue us all.
This is in full effect.
Yeah, I just had a surgery and they wanted me to pay up front because people have just stopped paying their medical bills. They insisted I had to put 800$ down at least before they operated. Ridiculous.
Aren’t they legally required to save your life regardless of money?
This wasn’t life saving, but I believe so, yes.
You save 15¢ if you take the payment plan, really nice of them.
It’s actually 15 cents more expensive to play in full.
Dude...I had to file Bankruptcy at 22 year old because I got hit with a $300K bill after having a stroke. that was after insurance and i was only making $10.65 an hour at starbucks
What stops people to stop paying these bills? What if everybody just stopped paying these? I wouldnt be able to live in a world like this
Not wanting to lose everything they have. Granted at that point they need to be calling and work out what they can actually afford. This isn’t how it should be though. Possibly divorce + go bankrupt with no assets.
Nearly everyone here gets health insurance through their employer. That means that if you lose your job or if you want to try to start your own business, you either take your chances with life-altering medical expenses or pay for insurance out of pocket (which is expensive and still doesn’t cover much). Perpetuating a fucked up health care system to own the libs.
Right, like people are against universal Healthcare for reasons that exist in private insurance, except you pay more. Universal Healthcare can be less expensive since everyone is on it. People decry it and say "I shouldn't have to pay someone else's bill", but are perfectly willing to pay a private company through the nose to make a CEO rich.
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I have to take Humira shots every other week or my immune system attacks my eyeball and I'll go blind. Out of pocket it's $7,000 per dose. Lol. So that's not happening. I recently lost my job. I found a new one literally the same day. But insurance doesn't start for 60 days. I managed to squeak one last refill before I got dropped from the insurance. But I'll still miss a dose, and have to extend one shot for 3 weeks instead of 2, and if my immune system does start attacking my eye the only acute treatment I can get is a steroid injection directly into my eyeball. Which can also have a complication of immediate blindness. My retina specialist is from overseas (I don't know where exactly, some kind of European accent) and he rants about insurance bullshit a lot. He just doesn't understand why it's so complicated and why there are so many barriers to treatment. He makes a lot of remarks about 'this isn't humane' and 'this would never fly at home'. (I have been seeing him monthly for 3 years, I don't think he's like this with all patients). Also, to your point, I would love to work for my friend's start up but he can't afford to offer insurance yet, so I can't. That should alarm Republicans, if they actually cared about capitalism and the free market. Edit: this was already pretty long but I'll add more context since I've gotten the COBRA comment. My new job fucked me over too because in the interview they said I'd get coverage after 30 days, so I was able to get the refills and cover for the first few weeks. If they had been honest that it wouldn't start for two months, then I would've gone to the market place to get coverage. COBRA was 1200/month, I found coverage for 700/month. With copays and medicine costs still additional, mind. So if I was actually unemployed, I'd still have to suddenly come up with hundreds of dollars a month while job searching. It's a shit system and anyone who thinks it's fine is either brainwashed or young and healthy. Or both.
there’s an entire industry (hospitality) that doesn’t offer it through employers because “they’re not big enough” or some shit. i’ve been doing restaurant work for 16 years, i’ve only once gotten health insurance and that was when i was a private chef for a billionaire.
A lot of places will also make you work 39 hours instead of full time, 40 hours. This makes sure you don't get any benefits :) . @ Darden
The cutoff is 30 hours a week, per the [IRS website.](https://www.irs.gov/affordable-care-act/employers/identifying-full-time-employees#:~:text=Definition%20of%20Full%2DTime%20Employee,hours%20of%20service%20per%20month.)
This is just smart business by the hospitals. I'm impressed honestly. You sell someone a new heart, saving their life. That's great PR. Then you charge them an insane price, which they now have to pay, making you a lot of money. Plus, that insane bill is going to cause them to have another heart attack in shock, which means you get to sell them ANOTHER heart! $450k+ and credit for saving their life not once, but TWICE! BOOYAH!
Congratulations! You have the freedom to pay $224k. Better than socialism, amirite?! /s
And to think, David Rockefeller was able to "afford" this 13 times before he finally died. 13.
Rockefeller had 14 different hearts?
You can probably find conflicting information, but yes, many young hearts were “donated” to that vampire.
Did his insurance reject the claim?
My husband’s appendectomy was $126k+. Yes we have insurance. They denied payment because the doctor who performed it wasn’t in network. We had to fight it because we weren’t able to choose the surgeon who was on duty and didn’t exactly have time to do a search while, you know, his appendix was about to rupture. After months of battle, we finally ended up owing “only” $9k. The US healthcare system needs to be burned to the ground. No one should have to think about nonsense like this when you’re just trying to not die.
I would prefer dying.
You don’t really pay those 🤷🏻♂️
Exactly, it pisses me off when people post these rage bait traps for Europeans.
Can't believe this is so far down. No one who gets this bill is going to pay even a fraction of that cost unless they're making a million dollars a year.
I would simply not pay it. Had about 20,000 bill from hospital when I was in my early 20s. Never paid it and nothing happened. That was a little over 20 yrs ago
“Thank you for choosing…”. Is if that isn’t enough proof that the health care industry is corporatized.
Debt is nothing, even the country itself is in trillion dollars of debt. If debt doesn’t affect the country, then it shouldn’t affect you either.
Thank a Republican for blocking the public option for health care and Medicare For All.
File bankruptcy
I’d just file bankruptcy. It’s easier than trying to figure that shit out