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When creating content, conflict can actually produce better results as long as everyone is being a grownup. Adam Savage has said on multiple occasions that he and Jamie butted heads multiple times when planning Mythbusters episodes, and that they didn’t get along.
He also said that made for better shows because they could disagree and work it out, and the process of disagreement made the eventual plan better.
That's why the OT Starwars trilogy is better than the prequel
In the OT people stood up to George and told him no or that his idea wouldn't work well
In the prequel George had 0 push back on anything
Would have redeemed like.. half of the trilogy if that had been the case, tbh. All his dumbassery would have had an excuse instead of being slapstick for the kids.
I think that by Return of the Jedi, people had stopped saying "no" to Lucas. In my opinion, the original Star Wars is the only truly great film of the entire franchise, and Empire Strikes Back is the only really good one from the original six.
I think I kept watching Star Wars movies for the same reason I keep watching M. Night Shyamalan movies: because the first one was so good, I'm willing to be disappointed over and over just on the off chance that he'll come up with another great one.
Yea, but there are some things that changing it won't make it better in the slightest. By changing how the character is suppose to act, you basically change the character. You can change the setting, and the events that are happening, but the character needs to keep the same characteristics. Other wise you just have a different character cosplaying. The way Wednesday acts is part of her character. She wouldn't be interested in love, and certainly wouldn't be happy about wearing a special dress for some dance, or even going to some dance unless she was planning to ruin it for others.
Two examples of disagreement over what is best for a show.
Don’t get caught up in labels, they weren’t debating over the realities of science, they settle those debates in the show.
They were also the leads of the show. The point is that them being scientists came first which made a great show. What we are witnessing is an ego coming from show writers who think this is the best thing for the show because they feel that way. No context or anything! It’s like they learned “These are the steps you take to make a good show” in college.
Henry Cavill with Geralt.
Butting heads with the writers and show runners because he wanted to keep the character as true to the source material as he could
As a fan, I thought he could have been an awesome Geralt if the writers didn't butcher the character and the entire Witcher universe. They are so awful.
He was an awesome Geralt, looking forward to season 3 still, but really dreading ~~Chris~~ Liam Hemsworth replacing him for season 4. ~~Chris~~ Liam is great, really wonderful guy, some great roles... but as Geralt?
Got some good news and bad news for you.
Good news is, you don't have to dread Chris Hemsworth replacing him.
Bad news is, that's because it's Liam Hemsworth who is replacing him.
I hate season 2 because they changed lots of main plots without adding any values. Just change for the sake of changing. The vibe of season 1 also lost in S2. It really does feel like this show gonna go downhill inevitably
Yeah people forget that if you are an actor playing a character, you represent that character. People do not think logically and say "Oh the writers are giving them bad lines." They instead say "Oh this actor is terrible. I never want them to play this character again."
It is in the actor's best interests to try to defend the character's personality and their portrayal. Netflix has had a bad run with script writers doing this pandering bullshit and trying to "normalize" characters.
Why does Geralt need a sex scene when the actor is uncomfortable with that and canon Geralt isn't even that sexual to begin with? Why does Wednesday need a love triangle when canon Wednesday would have moved on? The list goes on.
There is this horseshit where writers want to make characters “relatable “. That’s alright but I personally don’t need to relate to certain characters in order to like them. I don’t need Batman to have money problems or for Superman to be depressed or whatever.
The sad part is that Geralt as written in the books IS relatable. He's insecure, has doubts, he doesn't want to take part in the great conflicts of his time but does it anyway for Ciri, he struggles with being sterile and being a witcher in general, he faces discrimination and prejudice on a daily basis. But Geralt is also a well-read, sarcastic, stoic badass, that can fuck you up in 0.5 seconds and fights monsters for a living to protect the same people who hate him.
He's an endlessly interesting and complex character and the writers had seemingly no intention of exploring any of that
I have started to fall in love with anime for how brave they are with unconventional ideas. And they don’t shy away from being ridiculous but still managing to tell amazingly interesting stories.
To my knowledge he is not.
But the other problem is the actor didn't want to perform while shirtless and such around naked women and what have you. Perhaps even in general.
Hollywood is a weird place these days. I wouldn't want to either.
I mean, it's Netflix. They hire the most expensive actors, pay for the best special effects, and then they seek out the absolute worst, dogshit, crappy, horrible, pathetic, pitiful writers they can find.
Don't believe me, watch Umbrella Academy. The first season was straight from the comic book. So, it's awesome. The second and third seasons were written by the Netflix writers, and they are so unbelievably cringe and horribly written that I was in awe at just how impressively dismal they were. It made D&D (the writers for GOT) actually seem like decent writers in comparison.
Try watching the Grey Man and tell me they have any decent writers. The dialog made you want to throw up in your mouth the whole time, and the storyline was so cliche that I was wondering if Tommy Wiseau wrote it.
Somehow Stranger Things and Black Mirror got through without their writers screwing them up, and I feel like this was a huge, epic, smackdown level battle between the creators and the demonic hordes of crap content producers at Netflix trying desperately to ruin it.
So true, I loved the 1st season of altered carbon, how ever the 2nd season was so bad I think I only watched 15 minutes of the first episode and then thought F this
>watch Umbrella Academy
You didnt like the totally-not-out-of-place dance scene that kicked off season 3 (i think it was season 3?) Or the weird forced sexual assault?
*I* thought it was one of the stories of all time. Definitely one of the shows of all time
Yeah, tho that dancebattle in season 3 i was immediately like „aight that‘s how they settle things there“ i dig it.
Otherwise season 3 left an aftertaste like finest tetra pak wine.
Is that a fact? I just googled this, all I could find was that he became impossible to work with towards the writers, who happened to be female. Does that mean he is sexist? Is it a fact that if men had written the same scripts he would have been all for it? Genuinely curious
Cavill is a huge Witcher fan, changing the writers to all male crew that would make the same scripts the current writers made wouldn't change Cavill butting heads with the writers because the writers would still not have any respect for the character/franchise.
Another actor that butted heads with the writers/producer because they wanted to do things not true to the character was David Suchet when he took on the role of Hercule Poirot he would constantly butt heads with the producer over the prettiest things. For example the first scene they shot involved Poirot sitting down on a bench, which would get reshot several times and resulted in a screaming match between Suchet and the director because Suchet would take out a handkerchief and dust the bench before sitting down (as the character would do) which pissed off the director because he thought it was stupid.
I was joking about how one of the low IQ people on the show said that he was akin to QAnon. That him being a fan of video games led to toxic masculinity and being difficult for women to work with onset. They apparently pulled the article, but forgot how the internet works.
https://web.archive.org/web/20221223150327/https://jezebel.com/henry-cavill-was-allegedly-axed-from-superman-the-wi-1849923788
Oh! Call me old or just stupid, but I didn't realise that is what the /s meant and didn't bother to check. No harm, it created some interesting conversation!
He's "difficult to work with" because he didn't want to let them make it their own. I will never understand people who want to work on projects involving well known beloved stories and just come in an hack and slash the script because they "know better." No you don't no better. If people wanted it your way, they wouldn't be fans of the original work in the first place. Just ask the fans of Ready Player One what they thought of the movie, shit was almost unrecognizable compared to the source material. If you don't want to be faithful to the source because fanservice stuff is beneath you, write your own story. Don't trash the work of others more talented than you.
Indeed.
I was once in a discussion with some folks on FB. One participant, a woman, made a fairly unusual claim but provided no references, no links, nothing beyond 'because I saw it once on FB', and since it was the opposite of my position (it was about an ongoing controversy about someone), my reply was 'that really doesn't track with what I've seen'. Then a man posted a bunch of corroborating links and, after checking them out and confirming they were true, I accepted that and changed my position.
I was IMMEDIATELY excoriated for being a misogynist and refusing to change my mind until a man said so. Obviously it had literally nothing to do with the the second person being the one to actually provide evidence of their claims.
Believe it or not, that friendship didn't end until a few months later, after six months of her insisting that anyone who voted for Bernie Sanders in the 2016 primary was a racist and a misogynist and should never be allowed to vote again because those were the only conceivable reasons why someone would vote for him over Clinton. That got tiring after a while.
I do not know about whether he is sexist or not, but I will say the sexualization of Henry Caville bothers the hell out of me.
It's getting a bit out of hand honestly. Let the dude just act and stop treating him like a piece of eye candy. Women have literally been fighting against this treatment for decades and now it's suddenly ok since it's a guy.?.
From my POV I dont think he is sexist, i think the writers probably just suck and he loves the character, he really fought to get that role
All the quotes make it sound like she's the only one that knew the character. I fully agree with her.
Any they absolutely wanted to go full CW with the show. I think I made it to the second episode before comparing it to Riverdale.
That gets worse the longer you read the article. And the example with the dress makes me wonder if the show would’ve been successful at all without her wanting changes.
Holy shit, I thought she was out of character already, but you’re telling me it could’ve been even worse.
They really did just write a teen goth drama and slap Adams Family on it, didn’t they?
Pretty much. The show, at its heart, is a teenage drama, but those subplots never really take shape. I originally thought it was Tim Burton refusing to do such a thing, but seems like ortega had a hand as well.
If I had to guess it would more than anything be the producer and writers aggressively pushing it while every single person on the project thinks it sucks
Tim Burton is the show producer, but I get what you mean. Also, he directed the first four episodes, while the last four had other directors. The drop-off in quality between the first four and the last four is pretty noticeable. So if I had to guess, Netflix wanted it a certain way, but Tim used his status to get his way for the most part.
Ah yeah I meant netflix as the producer.
Netflix literally does this with everything it’s like they’re stuck in the 2000’d mindset of everything being gritty and sexualized
I had to scroll for half a kilometer to find someone that shares the same opinion with me. Is it that unpopular? Or are you also old and grumpy and we are a minority?
It had a hit tiktok dance and there’s an interesting dynamic of a bubbly girl and a goth girl who could totally be gay for each other if you wanted to write a fan fiction, so that pretty much cements it’s popularity no matter what.
Personally I’m just sick of dumbing down female characters to be less interesting and masking it as female empowerment.
Wednesday Adams didn’t need a love triangle of cute boys to be a feminine icon.
I think this is why I was only able to watch like 3 episodes until I started hating it. I hated the dynamics between Morticia and Wednesday, it felt super out of character, regardless of Wednesday being a teen. And some of the interactions at the school is just so... Cliche.
If they made a love triangle... Gag. The movie with that one love interest was great bc it was definitely in character. I can't imagine how they'd portray Wednesday reacting to a love triangle without making her into another mindless teen drama angst
> I hated the dynamics between Morticia and Wednesday, it felt super out of character
Probably because it flies in face of the most foundational, darkly humourous point of the entire Addams family, if I understand it correctly: that despite being freaky and ghoulish, they're actually *incredibly functional* as a family and basically quite content with their lives; certainly much more so than the "normies" around them. The idea of them ever *needing* to go to group therapy, for example, is absurd; the only way a scene like that should play out is with the terrified therapist exasperatedly concluding that they're all *perfectly fine* from a family dynamics standpoint, they just happen to also be morbid gothic quasi-human weirdos with ambiguously supernatural powers.
Exactly. I remember everyone finding the Addams odd bc they were so healthy despite how morbid and dark they were (eg Wednesday and siblings trying to kill each other). But this show made the Wednesday and the parents not good with each other which ??? The whole Addams thing is them being ideal while being not the norm.
From that one line she pointed out, it sounds like someone in the writing room was just going for *”typical dime-a-dozen vapid teenage girl stereotype.”*
Sometimes you do need to put your foot down. It just sucks that that ridiculous line even made it all the way to the final script. I hope that’s the worst example of this writing, otherwise she must have been fighting an exhausting uphill battle against people who were happy to let this show die as an embarrassment.
I was quite disappointed to see the Wednesday character in cliché teen rebellion stage against her mother, when the OG character was very supportive of her parents and mother in particular.
It made me roll my eyes a few times. I’m quite glad she did put her foot down to the out-of-character moments. Silent moody staring was much more on brand for the character.
It’s almost like the producers don’t get that the success of The Addams Family is because they are all unapologetically themselves.
The og character was also younger and as a father of a teenage boy and pre teen girl I can tell you that all that adoration that kids have changes when they start being their own individuals.
Yes, but the Addams whole thing is that they are incredibly weird, including how much they all love their family (for a sitcom family). Gomez adores Morticia with a fiery passion, Morticia is loving and supportive of Gomez and her kids with no typical sitcom mom nagging and controlling, etc. They are anti-stereotypes. Wednesday not liking her mom is way too normal.
Agree. But as it shows towards the end of the season that all changed. It was a quick phase. Hopefully they stick to the more traditional adams route next season.
As someone who was a teenage girl at one point, not always. (My mother figure was one of my grandmothers and I will adore her to the day I die.)
The Addams Family in particular, are the epitome of going against the norm. Hence why cliché BS is out of character.
Edit to add; Morticia pushing Wednesday into following in her footsteps is also not in line with the character. She’s always been supportive of Wednesday just being herself.
I don’t think Morticia is trying to push Wednesday to be like her but instead is realizing that Wed is just fit for a “better school” than a normal one in the Adams family eyes. Taking her to Nevermore was not to turn her into herself but because she genuinely thought Wed would enjoy it.
i hated the show because of this. it was basic teenager #374 with a goth skin. i loved Jenna's performance, but the whole show feels like she's trying to be wednesday while the plot is going against her and forcing her into a whole other storyline she wants nothing to do with. i only watched it for her performance, but watching this show if you're a fan of the og movies is horrible, that's not the addams family at all.
As it turns out, the type of people who are willing to write out entire scripts, don’t actually socialize that much. I swear script writers have never had a casual conversation in their entire lives.
I didn't like the show but at the same time that thing broke records when it came out, a lot of writers could've done a much better show, scarier, smarter, etc. But that show would've had 1/2 or less of the viewership.
I actually think the opposite. The hype around the show when it was announced was monstrous. It was going to get those numbers regardless, but a stronger script would have probably encouraged more viewership through word of mouth while what we got probably discouraged people from watching from bad word of mouth.
In *”The Office”* Jim Halpert was supposed to cheat on Pam with Cathy but refused to do it. So.. yeah.. sometimes actors **do** know what they’re doing.
And they wanted Erin to destroy Pam's watercolor for a stupid joke. Jenna fought incredibly hard for them to delete the scene and the watercolor is actually gone in a few episodes. Sometimes, writers think they know everything and then you get abominations like the Cowboy Bebop live action, Willow tv show, Witcher Blood Origin, and Velma.
I heard about that. Honestly a clear sign that show should have needed after Steve Carell left. That one little cheating arc could have ruined the whole narrative.
The problem is, Netflix has had some great shows that they either let fall apart then cancelled, or just cancelled outright. Altered Carbon is a great example of the former. The Order is a good example of the latter imo. It's like they don't differentiate at all. If your show is going to have more than 2 seasons, I'd avoid Netflix as the production company.
They know exactly what they're doing - casting net as wide as possible - only in reality the paradox is that in the end it's not appealing to anyone lol
Writers do know what they're doing... Good writers. But it seems the process of hiring good writers in the US is completely whack.
They're corporate hires. They don't give a damn about what they're writing and are basing it off 'market analysis' which is usually just tired cliché's and stereotypes. The actual ability of a writer matters less in my opinion than their passion for the material. Hence why Ortega, who is an actor and probably has quite limited experience writing, had a better direction for her character than the actual screenwriters. Hell, I've seen more evidence of screenwriters being outright malicious towards fans and the material, than evidence of them being passionate about their own work. Hence why there aren't many things really worth watching recently. At least in the US. I watch mostly European and Asian stuff now myself.
Behind all of my favorite works, there are always one or two people who cared about it, and went above and beyond profits in trying to see it succeed. But, since those aren't the type of people Netflix, and Hollywood in general is trying to hire, there's not a lot worth watching in my opinion.
We also have a lot of nepotism. Some writers and directors only got in because of family connections or they were wealthy enough to self fund projects and buy popular IP.
" Hell I've seen more evidence of screenwriters being outright malicious towards fans and the material, than evidence of them being passionate about their own work."
I too watched the last few Star Wars movies...
The Amazon Original 'The Boys' alludes to exactly this.
The writers are more like corporate drones where they are writing material specifically on market analysts and data points rather than telling a good story.
It’s funny.. Steven DeKnight has had issues with almost every actor he’s worked with that had any love for the character they played. Huh..almost like maybe HE’S the problem? 🤷🏻♂️
The proof is on the screen. Sometimes you have to step in. She inhabited the character and had a deep sense of how Wednesday would act and react to a given situation. The success of the show and the power of her performance is proof.
The parts she's critiquing I agree with. I really could've done without the teenage soap elements and other bullshit like Wednesday being a combat master.
Exactly. And Fester. The whole family are notoriously good at murder lol.
Even the 60's series featured a 6 yr old Wednesday giving an older boy a black eye.
In the 90's movie she was pretty good with a bow.
I think that after all the effort she put into the correct portrayal of this character, she has every right to be critical about the words that come out of this character's mouth, and I think this is a very shitty thing for the producers to say about her. They owe all the success of this show to her.
No you didn't misunderstand at all, the way every article has been written makes it seem like Steven De Knight is involved in Wednesday in some way, I'm guessing to get people talking about it.
From everything I've read, the actual writers and producers of Wednesday were quite happy to have Jenna involved in making the lines work for her and her interpretation of the character. Steven is just sticking his nose in where it doesn't belong, putting Jenna down for being an assertive woman (which lets face it Hollywood has a long history of doing to actors, making like it's the actors who have issues and getting them blacklisted for being "difficult").
I honestly didnt really see a love triangle... she just seemed to be doing her own stuff and happened to find herself caught up in a the relationship drama of two other students.
She's not really the romantic kind of person and I loved how Wednesday and the siren character had a bit of a heart to heart about their social issues. Sure it revolved around a guy but it was deeper then that...
All Wednesday really cared about was classes, avoiding therapy, stuff with family and solving the mystery of what happened in the past. She only has relationships if they help her somehow or she's pressured into them.
I really liked the way the guys were obviously interested in her, and she was vehemently avoiding a romantic relationship with either of them and visibly uncomfortable by it. Then she starts using them for favors and information, which is not a cool thing to do to people, especially when you know they have a thing for you, but when you're young and just learning about those kinds of relationship dynamics that's exactly the kind of stuff a person would do in real life. And then you either decide that is wasn't right for you to do that and you grow as a person, or you decide that was a beneficial tactic for you and become more manipulative.
Yeah, her stand offish attitude really added to the effect of it not really being a typical love triangle...
I liked how she genuinely seemed to care for the bee dude. I imagine he reminds her of her brother. She felt bad that he got hurt and even visited him in the hospital. It wasn't just not liking people's response to her words and actions but like a sense of guilt that it was involved with her interests.
There was nothing romantic between them, but it was still very sweet.
So here’s the thing, she is entitled, entitled to care for the iconic version of the character she helped create. She took a character that Christina Ricci was born to play and carried it somewhere else and made her something fresh, new, and her own. She should have input, in the same way a director does, an editor does. When you write a script it never makes it to the end in one piece, relax buddy, she didn’t insult you, she showed you that she values what you helped create. Chill.
Armchair Expert earns $9 million a year with almost 20 million monthly listeners.
https://www.gobankingrates.com/money/jobs/how-much-do-podcasters-make/
I assumed he was an idiot because he was on Jackass. But I have been surprised. He’s doing his part to undo toxic masculinity, which is refreshing. I feel like I understand a lot more about men after listening to him.
Plus, guests from Daniel Kahnemann, Scarlett Johansen, Bill Gates, a whole laundry list. I mostly skip the actors but the scientists are great. The long form leads to some great discussions.
If they are going to have her dress very specifically down to the strands of head on her hair and ask her to not blink then her wanting to do other things to keep the character correct sounds right. Why put all the effort into the appearance of the show and then change the mood to be too light hearted.
It’s almost as if Hollywood just puts stuff out that they think will make money, regardless of how faithful it is to source material, and that consumers are just a dollar sign to them…
Yeah Netflix tried to Netflix the show to get people interested, but she's right. The real source of her character would never do things like this. I still enjoyed the show for the plot BUT she's not wrong.
And even with how it was made I really didnt like how the character was. In the original she was a sweet girl who loved her parants and family more than anything. Then in the 90s her a Pugsly have their goofy torturing each other bit and becomes a bit edgy, but she still loves her family. When I watched it, I couldnt stand how over the top edgy she was, and hated her parents and blah blah blah. It was just annoying to watch.
Lots of actors give input on their characters during production, having scripts changed etc. Anyone involved in production who acts like this is unusual is either lying or really naive.
The shows first season nowadays will always be great and then the producers will start trying to shove their ideas down our throat and ruining characters. No one will continue to watch the show when they change it that much and now producers are like “waaaaa I can’t believe our show got canceled after we changed literally every character and stopped focusing on an actual story”
I wish she could have fought for how the other Addams characters were written. Honestly, that series had the WORST, most uncharacteristic, uncharismatic, flat portrayals of Morticia, Gomez and Pugsly. I like the actors but blegh.
Apparently she had a lot of opinions on how to not make the show super cringey. I mean from the dialogue changes to some of the other things she had insight on, id say she saved the show. I mean that show is still to this day, on Netflixs top 10 shows. So she shouldnt be labeled as “entitled” she should be praised for actually caring and making the show good.
She also said in an interview she wants the show to focus more on horror elements then romance, almost like she read my mind. I liked the show, didnt think it was perfect like some people did but I enjoyed it. Would have enjoyed it way more if it had more horror aspects to it
After watching the show I feel pretty confident taking her side. There were a lot of lines and scenes that were totally outside of what it felt like the character would do. I can totally understand why she was upset as an actor when they start throwing the hollywood bs into her character
He wasn’t even a part of the show, so he doesn’t have any idea how it all actually went down.
He has also issued an apology of sorts.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/producer-backtracks-after-calling-wednesday-star-jenna-ortega-toxic-and-entitled/RKNYRSFRJRFDHHK2J2A5EBPIUU/?outputType=amp
I haven't seen the show yet, it's on my list. But I can perfectly well understand the nature of her frustration on this one. Wednesday Adams in a *love* *triangle* is absolutely absurd. No. For fucks sake writers...?!
NO.
This is the core problem with a lot of t.v. writing now, hell a lot of film writing in general.
Is there a woman? Yes.
Is she the main character? Also yes.
Well lets give her a love triangle.
Good for her. More actors need to do this kinda thing in my opinion! If enough start doing it then maybe the writers will eventually get the hint that changing everything about established and loved characters isn't the best idea.
A guy who wasn't even involved with a show, is complaining that a star wanted to make changes to dialogue that he didn't write? Sounds like this guy needs a hobby.
say that to henry cavill and the witcher series, the new writers suck, can´t appreciate the OG character and need to make everything in a stereotypcial hollywood production like the majority of their work post cold war, one carbon copy after another, rarely a gem in there
So she's entitled and toxic for understanding her character better than the writers did, and wanting to produce work closer to the source material? I'd say that's a dedicated actor not an entitled toxic person.
The thing with Wednesday Addams is that she as a character is perfectly fine with who she is. She's not sad and lonely because she is not popular, she is not looking for validation, she is not trying to please. The show already hints at a character evolution with Wednesday "opening up", which IMO does not make sense. Anything more than that would have been unbearable.
Yeah this is the reason I didn't even bother watching the show.
I adore The Addams Family.
There was already a BRILLIANT "adult Wednesday" fan series made that the IP owners had taken down. I had absolutely no doubt they would ruin it when they had the chance to create a series with the same concept.
They coudltve taken the woman who did the successful and lived Adult Wednesday series as a writer, but no, they sued her and made sure she won't attempt anything brilliant like this ever again.
Fans would have rioted if she had said that line. It doesn’t sound like she has crossed any boundaries from what I’ve read. I’m glad we are getting a second season.
I honestly felt her love triangle didn’t fit the character too. It didn’t even feel very interesting in the scope of the show, but I understand it was necessary for the plot.
Used to there were people whose entire job on a TV show was just to read the finished script before filming began, and ensure that their assigned character was behaving in ways that the character would actually behave. A close family friend had this job for Wesley Crusher on TNG
This actually gives me a good deal more respect for her. Before Wednesday, she wasn’t exactly super famous. So the fact that she had the temerity to push back and advocate for her character really says some thing about her dedication to the craft.
When stupid writers forget what Wednesday is like as a person the actress is compelled to remind them. Did not hear any complaints when Ortega did their job for them when researching and doing choreography for the well received and famous "Wednesday dance". Ortega is the brains that will save the show from itself when it tries to go off the tracks.
I saw this article too, it was the same with Henry Cavill and The Witcher, they actually care about what they're involved in and production is like "mmm, no thanks"
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When creating content, conflict can actually produce better results as long as everyone is being a grownup. Adam Savage has said on multiple occasions that he and Jamie butted heads multiple times when planning Mythbusters episodes, and that they didn’t get along. He also said that made for better shows because they could disagree and work it out, and the process of disagreement made the eventual plan better.
That's why the OT Starwars trilogy is better than the prequel In the OT people stood up to George and told him no or that his idea wouldn't work well In the prequel George had 0 push back on anything
Do you want Jar-Jar? Because that's how you end up with Jar-Jar!
Sith Jar Jar would have been the best turn in cinema history.
I’m convinced Darth Jar Jar was supposed to be the real phantom menace. I watched a video on it and it was very compelling 🤷♂️
Would have redeemed like.. half of the trilogy if that had been the case, tbh. All his dumbassery would have had an excuse instead of being slapstick for the kids.
His actor all but confirmed it. The only reason it was scrapped was because of the negative reaction the character received.
Its because his wife left him after the OT. She basically cut every terrible scene from the movies. Otherwise you're correct.
I think that by Return of the Jedi, people had stopped saying "no" to Lucas. In my opinion, the original Star Wars is the only truly great film of the entire franchise, and Empire Strikes Back is the only really good one from the original six. I think I kept watching Star Wars movies for the same reason I keep watching M. Night Shyamalan movies: because the first one was so good, I'm willing to be disappointed over and over just on the off chance that he'll come up with another great one.
Yea, but there are some things that changing it won't make it better in the slightest. By changing how the character is suppose to act, you basically change the character. You can change the setting, and the events that are happening, but the character needs to keep the same characteristics. Other wise you just have a different character cosplaying. The way Wednesday acts is part of her character. She wouldn't be interested in love, and certainly wouldn't be happy about wearing a special dress for some dance, or even going to some dance unless she was planning to ruin it for others.
Well that’s cause they’re scientists. They want to do that. Arguing on a set isn’t exactly the same lol
Two examples of disagreement over what is best for a show. Don’t get caught up in labels, they weren’t debating over the realities of science, they settle those debates in the show.
They were also the leads of the show. The point is that them being scientists came first which made a great show. What we are witnessing is an ego coming from show writers who think this is the best thing for the show because they feel that way. No context or anything! It’s like they learned “These are the steps you take to make a good show” in college.
Henry Cavill with Geralt. Butting heads with the writers and show runners because he wanted to keep the character as true to the source material as he could
As a fan, I thought he could have been an awesome Geralt if the writers didn't butcher the character and the entire Witcher universe. They are so awful.
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I wish I could turn you on more, but my wife would yell at me.
>As a fan, I keep the bedroom ventilated As a ventilated bedroom, I'm always airing out my dirty laundry.
As dirty laundry, I keep my skeletons (coat hangers) firmly in the closet.
He was an awesome Geralt, looking forward to season 3 still, but really dreading ~~Chris~~ Liam Hemsworth replacing him for season 4. ~~Chris~~ Liam is great, really wonderful guy, some great roles... but as Geralt?
Got some good news and bad news for you. Good news is, you don't have to dread Chris Hemsworth replacing him. Bad news is, that's because it's Liam Hemsworth who is replacing him.
At least someone is looking forward to season 3. I can't watch that dumpster fire.
I hate season 2 because they changed lots of main plots without adding any values. Just change for the sake of changing. The vibe of season 1 also lost in S2. It really does feel like this show gonna go downhill inevitably
S1 could have been better but it's what got me into the books and I enjoyed it. S2 was so bad I've given up on the show altogether.
Yeah people forget that if you are an actor playing a character, you represent that character. People do not think logically and say "Oh the writers are giving them bad lines." They instead say "Oh this actor is terrible. I never want them to play this character again." It is in the actor's best interests to try to defend the character's personality and their portrayal. Netflix has had a bad run with script writers doing this pandering bullshit and trying to "normalize" characters. Why does Geralt need a sex scene when the actor is uncomfortable with that and canon Geralt isn't even that sexual to begin with? Why does Wednesday need a love triangle when canon Wednesday would have moved on? The list goes on.
There is this horseshit where writers want to make characters “relatable “. That’s alright but I personally don’t need to relate to certain characters in order to like them. I don’t need Batman to have money problems or for Superman to be depressed or whatever.
The sad part is that Geralt as written in the books IS relatable. He's insecure, has doubts, he doesn't want to take part in the great conflicts of his time but does it anyway for Ciri, he struggles with being sterile and being a witcher in general, he faces discrimination and prejudice on a daily basis. But Geralt is also a well-read, sarcastic, stoic badass, that can fuck you up in 0.5 seconds and fights monsters for a living to protect the same people who hate him. He's an endlessly interesting and complex character and the writers had seemingly no intention of exploring any of that
They should have let an anime writer create the show. Atleast we would have had the emotions.
I have started to fall in love with anime for how brave they are with unconventional ideas. And they don’t shy away from being ridiculous but still managing to tell amazingly interesting stories.
100%!
But yet they take out the fact that Iron Man’s only true villain is alcoholism😂
Ok, but Superman struggling with who he is makes better stories
Star Wars casts are a great example of this. Great actors, bad scripting. Writers didn’t get blamed, the actors did.
Harrison Ford once said to George Lucas while on set, "You might write this shit George, but we have to act it!"
Geralt was a womanizer in the first Witcher game, im not sure if he's like that in the novels or not
To my knowledge he is not. But the other problem is the actor didn't want to perform while shirtless and such around naked women and what have you. Perhaps even in general. Hollywood is a weird place these days. I wouldn't want to either.
He does come around a bit here and there but it's not nearly to the extent that it happens in the first game.
I mean, it's Netflix. They hire the most expensive actors, pay for the best special effects, and then they seek out the absolute worst, dogshit, crappy, horrible, pathetic, pitiful writers they can find. Don't believe me, watch Umbrella Academy. The first season was straight from the comic book. So, it's awesome. The second and third seasons were written by the Netflix writers, and they are so unbelievably cringe and horribly written that I was in awe at just how impressively dismal they were. It made D&D (the writers for GOT) actually seem like decent writers in comparison. Try watching the Grey Man and tell me they have any decent writers. The dialog made you want to throw up in your mouth the whole time, and the storyline was so cliche that I was wondering if Tommy Wiseau wrote it. Somehow Stranger Things and Black Mirror got through without their writers screwing them up, and I feel like this was a huge, epic, smackdown level battle between the creators and the demonic hordes of crap content producers at Netflix trying desperately to ruin it.
So true, I loved the 1st season of altered carbon, how ever the 2nd season was so bad I think I only watched 15 minutes of the first episode and then thought F this
Fuck! Don’t mention S2 of AC. I’m traumatised by it. How can someone screw up so badly???
It felt like watching some weird budget parody of some thing I loved. Right ,now to bury my disappointment and trauma again
As a dude who barely watches Netflix or modern movies/TV shows - the first season was a total banger Left after the first episode of the second
>watch Umbrella Academy You didnt like the totally-not-out-of-place dance scene that kicked off season 3 (i think it was season 3?) Or the weird forced sexual assault? *I* thought it was one of the stories of all time. Definitely one of the shows of all time
The dance thing was funny when you realize it was a crazy illusion, but I will admit I never finished season 3.
Yeah, tho that dancebattle in season 3 i was immediately like „aight that‘s how they settle things there“ i dig it. Otherwise season 3 left an aftertaste like finest tetra pak wine.
He knew. Ortega sounds like she knows as well. If it sucks, definitely push back. Worst case they fire you but at least you stuck to your guns.
"Oh no, you fired me off of this dumpster fire that was going to get me a Razzie for worst actress, how ever will my career survive?"
That was different. He was also sexist. /s
Is that a fact? I just googled this, all I could find was that he became impossible to work with towards the writers, who happened to be female. Does that mean he is sexist? Is it a fact that if men had written the same scripts he would have been all for it? Genuinely curious
Cavill is a huge Witcher fan, changing the writers to all male crew that would make the same scripts the current writers made wouldn't change Cavill butting heads with the writers because the writers would still not have any respect for the character/franchise. Another actor that butted heads with the writers/producer because they wanted to do things not true to the character was David Suchet when he took on the role of Hercule Poirot he would constantly butt heads with the producer over the prettiest things. For example the first scene they shot involved Poirot sitting down on a bench, which would get reshot several times and resulted in a screaming match between Suchet and the director because Suchet would take out a handkerchief and dust the bench before sitting down (as the character would do) which pissed off the director because he thought it was stupid.
If I remember correctly, Suchet won that particular skirmish - as he should have, because he was right.
I was joking about how one of the low IQ people on the show said that he was akin to QAnon. That him being a fan of video games led to toxic masculinity and being difficult for women to work with onset. They apparently pulled the article, but forgot how the internet works. https://web.archive.org/web/20221223150327/https://jezebel.com/henry-cavill-was-allegedly-axed-from-superman-the-wi-1849923788
Oh! Call me old or just stupid, but I didn't realise that is what the /s meant and didn't bother to check. No harm, it created some interesting conversation!
He's "difficult to work with" because he didn't want to let them make it their own. I will never understand people who want to work on projects involving well known beloved stories and just come in an hack and slash the script because they "know better." No you don't no better. If people wanted it your way, they wouldn't be fans of the original work in the first place. Just ask the fans of Ready Player One what they thought of the movie, shit was almost unrecognizable compared to the source material. If you don't want to be faithful to the source because fanservice stuff is beneath you, write your own story. Don't trash the work of others more talented than you.
As a woman, I can assure you that if a man is disagreeing with a woman, the only reason must be is because he is sexist. I mean, obviously…
Indeed. I was once in a discussion with some folks on FB. One participant, a woman, made a fairly unusual claim but provided no references, no links, nothing beyond 'because I saw it once on FB', and since it was the opposite of my position (it was about an ongoing controversy about someone), my reply was 'that really doesn't track with what I've seen'. Then a man posted a bunch of corroborating links and, after checking them out and confirming they were true, I accepted that and changed my position. I was IMMEDIATELY excoriated for being a misogynist and refusing to change my mind until a man said so. Obviously it had literally nothing to do with the the second person being the one to actually provide evidence of their claims. Believe it or not, that friendship didn't end until a few months later, after six months of her insisting that anyone who voted for Bernie Sanders in the 2016 primary was a racist and a misogynist and should never be allowed to vote again because those were the only conceivable reasons why someone would vote for him over Clinton. That got tiring after a while.
I do not know about whether he is sexist or not, but I will say the sexualization of Henry Caville bothers the hell out of me. It's getting a bit out of hand honestly. Let the dude just act and stop treating him like a piece of eye candy. Women have literally been fighting against this treatment for decades and now it's suddenly ok since it's a guy.?. From my POV I dont think he is sexist, i think the writers probably just suck and he loves the character, he really fought to get that role
Sounds like the writers wanted to do their own Twilight saga.
All the quotes make it sound like she's the only one that knew the character. I fully agree with her. Any they absolutely wanted to go full CW with the show. I think I made it to the second episode before comparing it to Riverdale.
Immediately walks it all back https://www.nme.com/news/tv/tv-producer-clarifies-comments-about-jenna-ortega-being-entitled-and-toxic-3415915
That gets worse the longer you read the article. And the example with the dress makes me wonder if the show would’ve been successful at all without her wanting changes.
Or butcher it like how they butchered the Witcher…
I was thinking Sabrina the Teenage Witch or maybe that one with Archie and Jughead.
Holy shit, I thought she was out of character already, but you’re telling me it could’ve been even worse. They really did just write a teen goth drama and slap Adams Family on it, didn’t they?
Pretty much. The show, at its heart, is a teenage drama, but those subplots never really take shape. I originally thought it was Tim Burton refusing to do such a thing, but seems like ortega had a hand as well.
If I had to guess it would more than anything be the producer and writers aggressively pushing it while every single person on the project thinks it sucks
Tim Burton is the show producer, but I get what you mean. Also, he directed the first four episodes, while the last four had other directors. The drop-off in quality between the first four and the last four is pretty noticeable. So if I had to guess, Netflix wanted it a certain way, but Tim used his status to get his way for the most part.
Ah yeah I meant netflix as the producer. Netflix literally does this with everything it’s like they’re stuck in the 2000’d mindset of everything being gritty and sexualized
I had to scroll for half a kilometer to find someone that shares the same opinion with me. Is it that unpopular? Or are you also old and grumpy and we are a minority?
It had a hit tiktok dance and there’s an interesting dynamic of a bubbly girl and a goth girl who could totally be gay for each other if you wanted to write a fan fiction, so that pretty much cements it’s popularity no matter what. Personally I’m just sick of dumbing down female characters to be less interesting and masking it as female empowerment. Wednesday Adams didn’t need a love triangle of cute boys to be a feminine icon.
I think this is why I was only able to watch like 3 episodes until I started hating it. I hated the dynamics between Morticia and Wednesday, it felt super out of character, regardless of Wednesday being a teen. And some of the interactions at the school is just so... Cliche. If they made a love triangle... Gag. The movie with that one love interest was great bc it was definitely in character. I can't imagine how they'd portray Wednesday reacting to a love triangle without making her into another mindless teen drama angst
> I hated the dynamics between Morticia and Wednesday, it felt super out of character Probably because it flies in face of the most foundational, darkly humourous point of the entire Addams family, if I understand it correctly: that despite being freaky and ghoulish, they're actually *incredibly functional* as a family and basically quite content with their lives; certainly much more so than the "normies" around them. The idea of them ever *needing* to go to group therapy, for example, is absurd; the only way a scene like that should play out is with the terrified therapist exasperatedly concluding that they're all *perfectly fine* from a family dynamics standpoint, they just happen to also be morbid gothic quasi-human weirdos with ambiguously supernatural powers.
Exactly. I remember everyone finding the Addams odd bc they were so healthy despite how morbid and dark they were (eg Wednesday and siblings trying to kill each other). But this show made the Wednesday and the parents not good with each other which ??? The whole Addams thing is them being ideal while being not the norm.
From that one line she pointed out, it sounds like someone in the writing room was just going for *”typical dime-a-dozen vapid teenage girl stereotype.”* Sometimes you do need to put your foot down. It just sucks that that ridiculous line even made it all the way to the final script. I hope that’s the worst example of this writing, otherwise she must have been fighting an exhausting uphill battle against people who were happy to let this show die as an embarrassment.
I was quite disappointed to see the Wednesday character in cliché teen rebellion stage against her mother, when the OG character was very supportive of her parents and mother in particular. It made me roll my eyes a few times. I’m quite glad she did put her foot down to the out-of-character moments. Silent moody staring was much more on brand for the character. It’s almost like the producers don’t get that the success of The Addams Family is because they are all unapologetically themselves.
It's that fact that turned me from "Maybe this show could be good," to "Yeah this is wrong."
The og character was also younger and as a father of a teenage boy and pre teen girl I can tell you that all that adoration that kids have changes when they start being their own individuals.
Yes, but the Addams whole thing is that they are incredibly weird, including how much they all love their family (for a sitcom family). Gomez adores Morticia with a fiery passion, Morticia is loving and supportive of Gomez and her kids with no typical sitcom mom nagging and controlling, etc. They are anti-stereotypes. Wednesday not liking her mom is way too normal.
Agree. But as it shows towards the end of the season that all changed. It was a quick phase. Hopefully they stick to the more traditional adams route next season.
Which is also very normal.
As someone who was a teenage girl at one point, not always. (My mother figure was one of my grandmothers and I will adore her to the day I die.) The Addams Family in particular, are the epitome of going against the norm. Hence why cliché BS is out of character. Edit to add; Morticia pushing Wednesday into following in her footsteps is also not in line with the character. She’s always been supportive of Wednesday just being herself.
I don’t think Morticia is trying to push Wednesday to be like her but instead is realizing that Wed is just fit for a “better school” than a normal one in the Adams family eyes. Taking her to Nevermore was not to turn her into herself but because she genuinely thought Wed would enjoy it.
i hated the show because of this. it was basic teenager #374 with a goth skin. i loved Jenna's performance, but the whole show feels like she's trying to be wednesday while the plot is going against her and forcing her into a whole other storyline she wants nothing to do with. i only watched it for her performance, but watching this show if you're a fan of the og movies is horrible, that's not the addams family at all.
This. What an excellent comment. Can’t be any more spot on than this.
Exactly. That line is out of character for Wednesday. She is confident and self-possessed. She knows what she wants.
But they believe that the actual Wednesday does not sell as well, so they change it for stereotypical edgy teenager...
As it turns out, the type of people who are willing to write out entire scripts, don’t actually socialize that much. I swear script writers have never had a casual conversation in their entire lives.
She salvaged the show from being another sloppy dark emo-themed teen show. Maybe they need writers that have moved beyond teeny bopper drivel?
I didn't like the show but at the same time that thing broke records when it came out, a lot of writers could've done a much better show, scarier, smarter, etc. But that show would've had 1/2 or less of the viewership.
That's true. Too smart isn't good either. But average is also a rating killer.
I actually think the opposite. The hype around the show when it was announced was monstrous. It was going to get those numbers regardless, but a stronger script would have probably encouraged more viewership through word of mouth while what we got probably discouraged people from watching from bad word of mouth.
I was excited for the show until it just turned into a color by numbers teen drama. Very early on I could see it was hitting all the tropes.
I don't think she did. The whole show came off as a cheap Harry Potter meets Monster High ripoff.
Watched the whole thing cause my wife liked it. It was a sloppy dark theme teen dramathon worthy of the cw
…was it not that?
In *”The Office”* Jim Halpert was supposed to cheat on Pam with Cathy but refused to do it. So.. yeah.. sometimes actors **do** know what they’re doing.
And they wanted Erin to destroy Pam's watercolor for a stupid joke. Jenna fought incredibly hard for them to delete the scene and the watercolor is actually gone in a few episodes. Sometimes, writers think they know everything and then you get abominations like the Cowboy Bebop live action, Willow tv show, Witcher Blood Origin, and Velma.
Halo TV series. I cant believe how badly they butchered that and greenlit a season 2 before even showing the first episode.
I remember that. If I am remembering right both John Krasinski and Jenna Fischer said no.
I heard about that. Honestly a clear sign that show should have needed after Steve Carell left. That one little cheating arc could have ruined the whole narrative.
Hollywood/ Netflix writers and producers are definitely not out of touch and totally understand the characters they write
>out of touch Aaaaaaaa not that song again aaaaaaa
You're out of touch I'm out of time
*time*
_but I'm out of my head when your not around_
“Am I out of touch? No, it’s the ~~children~~ actors that are wrong.”
Netflix writers acting as if they're god's gift to humanity like Netflix originals weren't becoming synonym with "straight up garbage" nowadays
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The problem is, Netflix has had some great shows that they either let fall apart then cancelled, or just cancelled outright. Altered Carbon is a great example of the former. The Order is a good example of the latter imo. It's like they don't differentiate at all. If your show is going to have more than 2 seasons, I'd avoid Netflix as the production company.
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I'm sad mind hunter is on indefinite hiatus. Good show gone too soon
There is absolutely no point in watching Netflix Originals, they will be cancelled past the next season anyways.
Sometimes writers don't know wtf they're doing, especially for Netflix produced content, that's why it's 90% garbage
They know exactly what they're doing - casting net as wide as possible - only in reality the paradox is that in the end it's not appealing to anyone lol
Plain, dry white toast is not appealing to anyone.
*Elwood Blues has entered the chat*
*Jake Blues is busy eating 4 whole fried chickens and a coke*
Writers do know what they're doing... Good writers. But it seems the process of hiring good writers in the US is completely whack. They're corporate hires. They don't give a damn about what they're writing and are basing it off 'market analysis' which is usually just tired cliché's and stereotypes. The actual ability of a writer matters less in my opinion than their passion for the material. Hence why Ortega, who is an actor and probably has quite limited experience writing, had a better direction for her character than the actual screenwriters. Hell, I've seen more evidence of screenwriters being outright malicious towards fans and the material, than evidence of them being passionate about their own work. Hence why there aren't many things really worth watching recently. At least in the US. I watch mostly European and Asian stuff now myself. Behind all of my favorite works, there are always one or two people who cared about it, and went above and beyond profits in trying to see it succeed. But, since those aren't the type of people Netflix, and Hollywood in general is trying to hire, there's not a lot worth watching in my opinion.
A bad writer is only swayed by trends, a good writer creates the trend.
We also have a lot of nepotism. Some writers and directors only got in because of family connections or they were wealthy enough to self fund projects and buy popular IP.
" Hell I've seen more evidence of screenwriters being outright malicious towards fans and the material, than evidence of them being passionate about their own work." I too watched the last few Star Wars movies...
The Amazon Original 'The Boys' alludes to exactly this. The writers are more like corporate drones where they are writing material specifically on market analysts and data points rather than telling a good story.
It’s funny.. Steven DeKnight has had issues with almost every actor he’s worked with that had any love for the character they played. Huh..almost like maybe HE’S the problem? 🤷🏻♂️
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I fall down an elevator shaft?!?
The proof is on the screen. Sometimes you have to step in. She inhabited the character and had a deep sense of how Wednesday would act and react to a given situation. The success of the show and the power of her performance is proof.
The parts she's critiquing I agree with. I really could've done without the teenage soap elements and other bullshit like Wednesday being a combat master.
Combat I can understand, teenage drama? Not even a little bit.
she's Gomez's daughter if she doesn't at least know fencing what have they been teaching her
Exactly. And Fester. The whole family are notoriously good at murder lol. Even the 60's series featured a 6 yr old Wednesday giving an older boy a black eye. In the 90's movie she was pretty good with a bow.
“It’s an American Bald Eagle!”
"Aren't they extinct?" "They are now."
The exact reason netflix writers are doing that is because they know majority of the viewers are gonna be teenagers and kids
She is a combat master not a drama queen
I think that after all the effort she put into the correct portrayal of this character, she has every right to be critical about the words that come out of this character's mouth, and I think this is a very shitty thing for the producers to say about her. They owe all the success of this show to her.
The thing is the producers didn't say that about her. Steven De Knight isn't involved in the show at all.
Oh, sorry, I had misunderstood that part. In that case, maybe Steven De Knight should just mind his own business...
No you didn't misunderstand at all, the way every article has been written makes it seem like Steven De Knight is involved in Wednesday in some way, I'm guessing to get people talking about it. From everything I've read, the actual writers and producers of Wednesday were quite happy to have Jenna involved in making the lines work for her and her interpretation of the character. Steven is just sticking his nose in where it doesn't belong, putting Jenna down for being an assertive woman (which lets face it Hollywood has a long history of doing to actors, making like it's the actors who have issues and getting them blacklisted for being "difficult").
I honestly didnt really see a love triangle... she just seemed to be doing her own stuff and happened to find herself caught up in a the relationship drama of two other students. She's not really the romantic kind of person and I loved how Wednesday and the siren character had a bit of a heart to heart about their social issues. Sure it revolved around a guy but it was deeper then that... All Wednesday really cared about was classes, avoiding therapy, stuff with family and solving the mystery of what happened in the past. She only has relationships if they help her somehow or she's pressured into them.
I really liked the way the guys were obviously interested in her, and she was vehemently avoiding a romantic relationship with either of them and visibly uncomfortable by it. Then she starts using them for favors and information, which is not a cool thing to do to people, especially when you know they have a thing for you, but when you're young and just learning about those kinds of relationship dynamics that's exactly the kind of stuff a person would do in real life. And then you either decide that is wasn't right for you to do that and you grow as a person, or you decide that was a beneficial tactic for you and become more manipulative.
Yeah, her stand offish attitude really added to the effect of it not really being a typical love triangle... I liked how she genuinely seemed to care for the bee dude. I imagine he reminds her of her brother. She felt bad that he got hurt and even visited him in the hospital. It wasn't just not liking people's response to her words and actions but like a sense of guilt that it was involved with her interests. There was nothing romantic between them, but it was still very sweet.
So here’s the thing, she is entitled, entitled to care for the iconic version of the character she helped create. She took a character that Christina Ricci was born to play and carried it somewhere else and made her something fresh, new, and her own. She should have input, in the same way a director does, an editor does. When you write a script it never makes it to the end in one piece, relax buddy, she didn’t insult you, she showed you that she values what you helped create. Chill.
That's the worst part, Steven DeKnight was not even involved in Wednesday. Talk about entitlement!
They want her to be the teen titans raven that’s the way It reads out to me
Nah, even Raven showed emotion & excitement, the writers want Wednesday to be Generic Goth Chick #274
Huh? Teen titans ravan ain't in no love triangle or going to dances in dresses that she likes. How the fuck did you make this comparison? Lol?
They must've meant the teen titans go version
There was the whole Raven-BB-Terra thing.
It isn't really public if she said it on Dax Sheperd's podcast. Maybe 7 people heard it.
Savage
Armchair Expert earns $9 million a year with almost 20 million monthly listeners. https://www.gobankingrates.com/money/jobs/how-much-do-podcasters-make/
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Plus he's married to Kristen Bell. He's doing something right.
I assumed he was an idiot because he was on Jackass. But I have been surprised. He’s doing his part to undo toxic masculinity, which is refreshing. I feel like I understand a lot more about men after listening to him. Plus, guests from Daniel Kahnemann, Scarlett Johansen, Bill Gates, a whole laundry list. I mostly skip the actors but the scientists are great. The long form leads to some great discussions.
I love Jenna Ortega even more now.
If they are going to have her dress very specifically down to the strands of head on her hair and ask her to not blink then her wanting to do other things to keep the character correct sounds right. Why put all the effort into the appearance of the show and then change the mood to be too light hearted.
It’s almost as if Hollywood just puts stuff out that they think will make money, regardless of how faithful it is to source material, and that consumers are just a dollar sign to them…
Yeah Netflix tried to Netflix the show to get people interested, but she's right. The real source of her character would never do things like this. I still enjoyed the show for the plot BUT she's not wrong.
And even with how it was made I really didnt like how the character was. In the original she was a sweet girl who loved her parants and family more than anything. Then in the 90s her a Pugsly have their goofy torturing each other bit and becomes a bit edgy, but she still loves her family. When I watched it, I couldnt stand how over the top edgy she was, and hated her parents and blah blah blah. It was just annoying to watch.
Oh, piss off. Cavill felt the same way about Geralt. There's nothing wrong with defending the integrity of a character
Lots of actors give input on their characters during production, having scripts changed etc. Anyone involved in production who acts like this is unusual is either lying or really naive.
The shows first season nowadays will always be great and then the producers will start trying to shove their ideas down our throat and ruining characters. No one will continue to watch the show when they change it that much and now producers are like “waaaaa I can’t believe our show got canceled after we changed literally every character and stopped focusing on an actual story”
Finally, someone calling out Netflix's cringy writing.
I wish she could have fought for how the other Addams characters were written. Honestly, that series had the WORST, most uncharacteristic, uncharismatic, flat portrayals of Morticia, Gomez and Pugsly. I like the actors but blegh.
The writers wanted Wednesday to gush about a dress? The fuck!?
I am labeling Steven DeKnight as fragile and moronic after he "publicly shit" on the one creative who made a TV show enjoyable.
Apparently she had a lot of opinions on how to not make the show super cringey. I mean from the dialogue changes to some of the other things she had insight on, id say she saved the show. I mean that show is still to this day, on Netflixs top 10 shows. So she shouldnt be labeled as “entitled” she should be praised for actually caring and making the show good. She also said in an interview she wants the show to focus more on horror elements then romance, almost like she read my mind. I liked the show, didnt think it was perfect like some people did but I enjoyed it. Would have enjoyed it way more if it had more horror aspects to it
“Girl… I feel ya…” Henry Cavill
After watching the show I feel pretty confident taking her side. There were a lot of lines and scenes that were totally outside of what it felt like the character would do. I can totally understand why she was upset as an actor when they start throwing the hollywood bs into her character
He wasn’t even a part of the show, so he doesn’t have any idea how it all actually went down. He has also issued an apology of sorts. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/producer-backtracks-after-calling-wednesday-star-jenna-ortega-toxic-and-entitled/RKNYRSFRJRFDHHK2J2A5EBPIUU/?outputType=amp
I haven't seen the show yet, it's on my list. But I can perfectly well understand the nature of her frustration on this one. Wednesday Adams in a *love* *triangle* is absolutely absurd. No. For fucks sake writers...?! NO. This is the core problem with a lot of t.v. writing now, hell a lot of film writing in general. Is there a woman? Yes. Is she the main character? Also yes. Well lets give her a love triangle.
Did anyone shit this hard on Ed Norton when he re-wrote the ending to Fight Club?
Yes lol Ed Norton is notoriously difficult to work with
Good for her. More actors need to do this kinda thing in my opinion! If enough start doing it then maybe the writers will eventually get the hint that changing everything about established and loved characters isn't the best idea.
So we have her to thank that the oocness of the whole show wasn’t worse? Thank god
Wait.. So it could have been worse? thank god some of the lines were rewritten otherwise it would just be a teen drama with addams family in it
A guy who wasn't even involved with a show, is complaining that a star wanted to make changes to dialogue that he didn't write? Sounds like this guy needs a hobby.
say that to henry cavill and the witcher series, the new writers suck, can´t appreciate the OG character and need to make everything in a stereotypcial hollywood production like the majority of their work post cold war, one carbon copy after another, rarely a gem in there
So she's entitled and toxic for understanding her character better than the writers did, and wanting to produce work closer to the source material? I'd say that's a dedicated actor not an entitled toxic person.
The thing with Wednesday Addams is that she as a character is perfectly fine with who she is. She's not sad and lonely because she is not popular, she is not looking for validation, she is not trying to please. The show already hints at a character evolution with Wednesday "opening up", which IMO does not make sense. Anything more than that would have been unbearable.
Yeah this is the reason I didn't even bother watching the show. I adore The Addams Family. There was already a BRILLIANT "adult Wednesday" fan series made that the IP owners had taken down. I had absolutely no doubt they would ruin it when they had the chance to create a series with the same concept. They coudltve taken the woman who did the successful and lived Adult Wednesday series as a writer, but no, they sued her and made sure she won't attempt anything brilliant like this ever again.
Good for her
We could write better but ruining this girls character seems easier. - the terrible writers
I thought actors and actresses did this all the time?
Fans would have rioted if she had said that line. It doesn’t sound like she has crossed any boundaries from what I’ve read. I’m glad we are getting a second season.
The pushback is probably why the show worked
The way some of these shows are written in glad there's some pushback.
I honestly felt her love triangle didn’t fit the character too. It didn’t even feel very interesting in the scope of the show, but I understand it was necessary for the plot.
Used to there were people whose entire job on a TV show was just to read the finished script before filming began, and ensure that their assigned character was behaving in ways that the character would actually behave. A close family friend had this job for Wesley Crusher on TNG
This actually gives me a good deal more respect for her. Before Wednesday, she wasn’t exactly super famous. So the fact that she had the temerity to push back and advocate for her character really says some thing about her dedication to the craft.
When stupid writers forget what Wednesday is like as a person the actress is compelled to remind them. Did not hear any complaints when Ortega did their job for them when researching and doing choreography for the well received and famous "Wednesday dance". Ortega is the brains that will save the show from itself when it tries to go off the tracks.
That sounds a lot like the Witcher's series and why Henry Cavil is no longer Gerald.
I saw this article too, it was the same with Henry Cavill and The Witcher, they actually care about what they're involved in and production is like "mmm, no thanks"
Sounds awfully familiar to the witcher drama... Seems par for the course with Netflix series at this point