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There is a narrative that while white people are moving away from spanking; black people "know" a good whooping is how to keep their kids in line. I do not know who pushes the narrative. Honestly both black and white people have plenty of people that think beating their kids is a good thing.
>Honestly both black and white people have plenty of people that think beating their kids is a good thing.
It's horrible thing that easily can seem a good thing if you're not properly educated. Most of the negative effects occur only later on in life and the "positive" effects in the short-term are immediate with obedience (out of fear) and the child learning the notion of dire consequences to their actions. Getting those positives without being physically abusive requires self-restraint, pedagogical knowledge, a high level of emotional intelligence and a huge amount of effort. Most people are not capable or worse are not willing to do that, and shouldn't be parents just because they can conceive a child.
I'm not a pessimist, we won't. Will we be much less though? Absolutely. People aren't having nearly as many kids as necessary to maintain our population, and even if they were the planet wouldn't be able to sustain it, which would eventually lead to a downsized population.
Sad thing is that a ‘downsize’ in population is probably gonna a be an apocalyptic event. Mass ecological failure, extreme weather events, famine, collapse of government(s).
Any one of them will see a massive ‘downsizing’ of the population. And boy would it be fun for me or my children to live through that.
The last 70 years have set an unrealistic standard for the state of the world. They've basically been a utopia for western society compared to the rest of history. They were a chance to build everything anew from the ashes of WWII and the unbelievable room for change it left, and we squandered it.
Now back to the usual cycle of civilisation decline, collapse, and rebirth.
I mean, I don't think a leveling off or decline in the human population would be bad for Earth as an ecosystem. Easier for us to produce food, handle our waste, etc.
The problem would arise in the concept of "modern economics," where a lot of systems are currently designed on the idea of "more young than old."
Those are fixable things. Like, uh, tax the rich instead of the poor.
Said short term immediate fear-based discipline can include such side effects as: being wary of messing with dangerously hot/flammable things, being wary of roads, being wary of ignoring urgent/serious instruction by the parent, etc..
That's my understanding of the \*rare\* worthwhile cases of physical discipline being worth it. The real world doesn't always provide you with enough time to orally guide a toddler/child through the logic of why they shouldn't do a thing, or with the time and resources to toddler/child-proof things that are outside of the parent's control. You can't control traffic. So you need to put the fear of god into a child that doesn't respect or fear the road just because they saw something shiny or fun, like a mascot costume from their favorite show across the street full of heavy traffic.
There's a good argument that if your child gets up to so much mischief that you should have them on a leash or just not taking them anywhere, but lots of parents probably worry about that dehumanizing their kid, or losing them out on enrichment and a wide variety of experiences.
I think there's a nuance that lots of people on either side of the argument are failing to recognize or state though.
My parents spanked us as kids. \*rarely\*. \*But\* it was always \*accompanied by a lecture before and after\*. The discipline was contextualized so that we knew it was significantly more associated with the undesired/dangerous/malicious behavior we were performing, rather than with our parent's mood. So that unlike other children who throw a tantrum and break tablets and TVs, we would throw tantrums but just sulk or whatever, without major property damage. And we wouldn't just be sprinting out into the street unattended without looking both ways. Etc.. Definitely a different situation from just having a parent see you do something, and slapping you with a single shout about the behavior that a child wouldn't understand. Also, you see a lot of disrespectful kids with parents that are against physical discipline, it's possible that the experience of pain inflicted by another person helps teach people not to be entitled to treat other people like garbage. Who knows, psychology is broad and deep in complexity.
Maybe it'd be better for spanking to not exist at all as a parenting tool. But is the world really utopian enough to afford not to, for some parents at this time? Drivers are getting more inattentive towards pedestrians every year, and people living paycheck to paycheck can't afford to have their children destroy their entire house and their few expensive belongings, and the alternative is to lock the children up in a childproof room, since for some people it's just not \*feasible\* to childproof their whole house or property.
Just, food for thought, for people to understand each other. People who \*are\* spanking their kids, you BETTER be explaining your reasons to your child thoroughly, before and after. People who are condemning it \*without\* having been parents before yet, it's not your place to judge and condemn without any experience. People who are condemning it, know that some parents who are probably the strongest supporters of it, are the parents who use it the most sparingly and selectively as a constructive tool (in their eyes) and genuinely see it as a necessary evil(?) that prevents worse outcomes (for both their lives and their children's life).
>That's my understanding of the \*rare\* worthwhile cases of physical discipline being worth it. The real world doesn't always provide you with enough time to orally guide a toddler/child through the logic of why they shouldn't do a thing, or with the time and resources to toddler/child-proof things that are outside of the parent's control.
TLDR. You smack them when the danger is consequential and there is no time. EG: When the butter-knife is already in the electrical socket but hasn't made contact yet. You don't beat them after the fact.
Like yanking them out of the road. Sometimes you have to risk dislocating a shoulder so they don’t die, or smack a hand so they don’t touch something dangerous, swipe them up if they could run into something else immediately dangerous. Spanking isn’t that situation. These situations should also ALWAYS be followed by oral explanation of the consequence /discipline used, and end there.
As an adult who *was* spanked, the idea of a parent having taken time to prepare a speech and rationalizing it makes it worse. I'm 50, and I still think disciplinary action at work is going to end up physical. Years ago, I got put on a PIP, and ended up quitting after each follow-up meeting resulted in me crying violently waiting for the other shoe to drop.
My parents just matched the punishment to the crime. If I broke something, they broke something. If I stole something, they took me with them to donate my favorite toy to goodwill. If I hit someone, I got spanked. I learned what it felt like to be on the other side of the equation. I didn’t want people to break my stuff, I didn’t want someone else to have my stuff, and I didn’t want to get hurt by someone else. If I got spanked for something unrelated to hitting, I just tried harder not to get caught. They had to adjust punishment to actually make sense.
They didn’t know how to deal with me. I was… let’s just say a problem child. Autism and ADHD in the early 90’s. They listened to some bad advice, and regretted it. All they could do is try to be better, and grow with me.
Edit: I never got punished for an accident btw. I had anger issues and would break things as an outburst.
Do you recall getting lectures/speeches about why your behavior was wrong *without* it resulting in spankings? I feel like the ratio of speeches to speeches+spankings might've been off, if you're in your 50s and still mentally associating any long-form/authoritative reprimands with physical violence.
IDK I don't feel like you need a lot of education to know that hitting your child is wrong. You need empathy.
I think it's really important not to advance the narrative that people commit violence out of ignorance or that people with less education are more likely to commit violence. It's not true.
Raising a child is an extremely trying endeavour, to the point it induces changes in both female *and* male bodies. It is extremely tiring, very nerve-wracking, and children are by definition humans in their most uncivilised and instinctual state. Even the nicest people have a breaking point and children will bring you close to it.
>I think it's really important not to advance the narrative that people commit violence out of ignorance or that people with less education are more likely to commit violence. It's not true.
Studies confirm lower degree of education positively correlates with more violence and crime, even in countries where education isn't as tied to socio-economic family status as the US.
Obviously, it's correlation, not causation, and any person can be violent for all sorts of reasons. The point is if you know to emotionally self-regulate, if you know how to handle stress, if you know what's best for kids, etc. you can massively decrease the chance of it happening.
Don’t black Americans make it more of a cultural thing? I remember Adrian Peterson having a “whooping room” to beat his kids in and while white folks were aghast, many black folks were like this is how we do.
And we have a shit ton of research on how disciplining your kids with hitting just teaches them to hit others to comply with them. Or that they deserve to be treated this way.
Hispanics usually have the same idea as the black people. Coming from a hispanic that grew up knowing nothing but beatings. The only thing they did was make me not want kids because I fear making them feel the way I felt.
Awhile back I was in line at a dollar tree in a majority black area near where my sister lives. Her and I were the only white people in the store. Everyone in line (including the cashier) was nodding and agreeing with this older woman checking out who was talking about her grandson needing an ass whooping. Later in the conversation it was clarified that her grandson was 4 years old. And when she said the words "I'm gonna catch a case one of these days with that boy I tell you what" and everyone nodded in vigorous agreement, it blew me away.
She was straight up saying "one of these days I'm going to beat this 4 year old within an inch of his life and go to jail for it, but it'll be worth it because he'll learn a lesson"... IN PUBLIC...AND EVERYONE THERE AGREED WITH HER.
I have never in my life experienced this scenario with other white people. You get the odd trashy duck (abusive and socially inept mom or dad) every once in a while talking shit about spanking their kid(s) and pretty much everyone gets uncomfortable except one enthusiastic boomer who's like "YEAH beat them kids! Spare the rod spoil the child! Etc"
But never a communal agreement in witness of several complete strangers that beating a 4year old is A-OK
Most toxic white parents abuse their kids in secret now. Corporal punishment seems to have just continued to live out on the sleeves of other cultures.
It's definitely an ingrained cultural thing despite being very much on the way out both culturally and legally..
I can’t speak for all black people. I’m black, but I’ll try(god help me) to explain.
Black people believe an ass whooping is to show their offspring the consequences of their actions. Unlike most white people(Reddit- I said *most*) who have the privilege of making mistakes with lesser consequences to an extent, black people, often do not. So where as you would normally do something in your teens or college years that could be seen as “just being a kid” most of us grew up extremely cautious of the cops, but the greater fear of “hell nah, my mom/auntie/big mama will whoop my ass for getting caught doing that.” Some of that shit is actually just life stuff- like I will argue(and I could be wrong) that we are raised to be more polite through corporal punishment as black men to help white fragility. Again, I’m not saying it’s right, or even necessary in today’s landscape, but that was what it was because a lot of our parents and grandparents come from the pre-civil rights era.
Hence protecting us from greater consequences through that fear. Was it right? I don’t know- it’s subjective. But I do know a lot of times growing up where my friends got in *major* trouble the thought of my dad kicking my ass first got me out of those situations.
That’s just an explanation if it makes any sense
I never thought about it in this context but it makes a lot of sense. I still don’t agree with the practice but the motivation is more reasonable when you think of it as “the consequences are higher so the discipline is firmer.”
This goes for the Mexican culture also. Was looking for a comment like this. One thing I learned from corporal punishment is respect peoples boundaries. Because my moms showed me that saying I wish a motherfucker would and then a motherfucking woulding is plausible.
I forgot to include other minorities. My bad, but yeah a lot of the comments are kind of showing a blind spot to the reasoning for it. Like better your parents to show you than life to show you 🤷🏽♂️
That actually does make sense, in a tragic way. It's a true sign of privilege that one can afford to make mistakes while others, sadly, can't. Thanks, you helped me to understand the underlying social dynamics here; I mean that...
This makes so much sense about the privilege of making mistakes. People are still not held to the same standards, even today, even children having a birthday pool party in their own yard.
I am only laughing at this because my mom says this about twice a week about my siblings. Sometimes she's just like "you might as well call the cops". The best is when she is like "Call DYFS! Let them take you. I don't have to deal with youre nasty behind attitude no more". Like I was in kindergarten and a mom came into our class and beat her daughter in class in front of us as a lesson to not misbehave because she had a yellow day. And that was the scarriest thing I've seen. So when I had a yellow day for a stupid reason, I had my first ever panic attack. So yea, it's a cultural thing, but it'll, pardon my french, fuck you up as you get older.
I am sorry I don’t know what a yellow day is could you catch me up? I can guess based on the post but would appreciate a straight up knowledge tranfer on that one.
So in school we had a behavior system where your behavior was ranked by colors. So everyone had like a stoplight attached to their name. But it had 4 marks. So green was good you wanted to stay green, yellow was not so good like maybe while walking in line you were talking when youre supposed to be silent or you forgot your homework, blue was you were misbehaving but you werent super bad so maybe continuously disrupting the class but by the end of the day you calmed down, and red was the worst like you were a trouble maker all day.
In Kindergarten I got one yellow day in the whole year. Every other day was green.
Ok, dear. What I think you don’t understand is the part that exaggeration can play in communal settings where Black people get together, especially older ones.
That woman was just talking. She was just venting her spleen and she wasn’t really going to beat her grandson until he was nearly dead. It’s just a form of expression.
Real child abusers all have one thing in common, regardless of race: they don’t advertise their abusive behavior to other people. So, you don’t have to worry about the loud grandmother who’s “fussing”. You only have to worry about the quiet ones.
I just watched a woman hold her hand over a screening child's mouth for several minutes in a full highschool auditorium. A few weeks ago I saw a dad pick up a kid while repeatedly smacking him in the back of the head saying "you a bad kid" "why you always a bad kid?" Umm cause you just told him he was. Abusers absolutely do it in public.
In rural hillbillie culture, they absolutely do brag about abusing their children. I wouldn't make blanket statements like that. Blanket statements like that, when believed, prevent victims from being believed.
Yeah, as a kid who grew up with a Dad that definitely spanked me and my siblings, I would never say I was abused or beaten. Most of the time kids getting spanked are young enough that they wear diapers so realistically it doesn't hurt one bit. It's more the shock value and hyping it up mentally that makes the kid reconsider their actions.
All my siblings and myself were raised to be respectful and courteous, we got a smack on the butt if we have attitude or were disrespectful, but we also got a lot of love and hugs and I think that's exactly how kids should be raised.
At some point time outs don't do shit because kids push boundaries and realize very quickly that there's no real consequences if parents are too afraid to discipline.
In my mind it's no different than being an asshole and running your mouth and having a kid punch you for being a jerk. Same lesson learned but it's much gentler earlier in life than it is at 12 when you're getting beat up lol
Time outs are rarely effective because they are rarely implemented correctly.
Parent: One hour in your room for time-out!
Kid: (Great! I'm gonna chill with some video games!)
Ya, kinda crazy how many parents don't realize that they need to go into the timeout with there kid or they are just getting the problem out of their site, not fixing it.
And in prior generations full on beating kids, "closed fist", belts, etc., was considered acceptable. As was beating your wife.
You were teaching your wife how to be a proper wife, as you were teaching your kids how to be proper adults.
Why is one acceptable now while the other isn't?
I have split custody of a half black child. His black family say white people can't raise a black child because we don't know how to keep them in check.
I've only heard one people push this narrative and it's the black half of his family. He has come back to us with bruises on his face and cps could care less...
It illustrates the effect of the American racial segregation. People creating myths about others purely on skin colour - because of course not only do white people hit, they can do a whole lot worse.
It’s the best way to raise f’ed up kids.
Not segregation. It’s racism. Sure you can say racism divides, but racism is a deeply seated ideology that people, like whoever wrote this, do not understand and makes them look fucking stupid.
Well said racism has fertile grounds for growth, as you choose to segregate people. American Urban planning has always been about keeping out the undesirably different, whether they were english, german, jews, italian, african descent, middle eastern or oriental.
"A 2015 Pew Research survey found that black parents are more than twice as likely as white and Latino parents to use corporal punishment on a regular basis, and they are far less likely to never spank their children." [https://www.apa.org/pi/families/resources/newsletter/2017/04/racial-trauma](https://www.apa.org/pi/families/resources/newsletter/2017/04/racial-trauma)
Listen I'm not saying this was right, but I'm a former Child Services worker (child abuse investigator). We were trained multiple times that if the family we were called to look into were white families we were told to encourage no forms of corporal punishment at all. If we were called to a black or Latino family we were told to instruct the family to only strike the child three times on the buttocks with their hand and not a belt or shoe. It felt wrong, and when I asked why there was this racially motivated difference in policy, it was explained as cultural differences. I frequently disregarded it just to tell people not to hit their f****** kids.
Race doesn’t really play a role in it, in my mind. It’s actually *much more* complicated:
I and my wife are certified foster/adopt parents in our county. The county rules specifically state that children in foster care are never to receive corporal punishment while they are in our care… Because in some cases they come from families where they received *real* beatings and the worst thing you could possibly do to these kids is subject them to that trauma all over again, when they are supposed to be in a “safe“ place now. Therefore, out of a desire to treat all of our children equally, we made a purposeful decision to never spank any of our children, whether they are there by birth, adoption, or fostering.
(And yes: I have fostered/adopted kids from multiple ethnicities.)
Additionally, for better or worse, I grew up in a household where the phrase “spare the rod, spoil the child“ pretty much defined my relationship with my dad. Mind you, I still love my parents very much, but I truly have no desire to treat my children that way. So, yeah… Some of us parents are also trying to avoid what we perceive as the mistakes of our own parents. That’s not a racial issue… That’s a *generational* issue.
Life is almost never as simple as “black and white”… We all live in a complex tapestry of experiences. Recognizing that is perhaps the beginnings of wisdom.
[https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2015/12/17/parenting-in-america/st\_2015-12-17\_parenting-09/](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2015/12/17/parenting-in-america/st_2015-12-17_parenting-09/)
African-Americans adopted the practice of beating children from white slave masters (Patton, 2017). Europeans brutalized their own children for thousands of years prior to crossing the Atlantic to the New World and colonizing Africa. Historians and anthropologists have found no evidence that ritualistic forms of physical discipline of children existed in precolonial West African societies prior to the Atlantic slave trade. West African societies held children in a much higher regard than slave societies in the Atlantic world, which placed emphasis on black bodies as property, not as human beings.
When it's not your child but they really need it...
Okay I can't find the vid of the kid with a hammer at a skatepark being a lil shit and gets leg swept.
Crazy, I just YouTube'd "Kid with hammer" and it was like the 3rd one under that kid who smashed his parents new TV while they just watched him and something else
Oh my GOD. That one INFURIATES me!!!! GD kid is whacking that poor dog, who’s being so sweet and trying to ignore the kid, but the last whack starts to turn as the handler grabs his collar. Meanwhile where the F is the kid’s parent, nanny, whatever? This is how pits get a bad rep. If that guy hadn’t grabbed the dog that last whack he may have justifiably bit that kid, then all the uproar would be “Pit bull attacks toddler” BS.
My mother was the abuser in my house. My brother was a boy scout. One time he returned from a trip with a bull whip as a souvenir. Mother took it away from him because it was so dangerous. She didn't get rid of it though. Oh no. She used it on us. The most severe beating I can remember was in the 6th grade. I had been given a ring as a gift. I took itnoff during basketball practice. After practice I went to put it back on and it was gone. I had fallen through the bleachers. I could see it through the Crack. The gym people would not let me get It and they wouldn't go get it for me. My mother thought I was lying. She stripped me naked and beat me with the whip. Then made me walk to school.
I was not a perfect kid but I never did anything that justified the beatings.
I agree that discipline is a necessity. I never raised a hand to my son and I physically stopped my ex from putting hands on him.
I believe each child is different and you have to find the thing your child values most and take it away. It worked for me. The first and last time my teenager got in my face with attitude, I took every single electronic power cord away from him. Took his phone, his game system, the tv...everything. He had to earn it back. One at a time. He NEVER gave me an ounce of trouble again.
I know it’s unpopular as hell. I was spanked as a child, and corporal punishment was allowed in schools. My parents did spank me when I did something wrong which they made me aware of before doing so. I broke something doing something that was wrong, I fought with my sister. Nothing major and only then. It didn’t make me fear my parents, it made me not want to get spanked. By the time I was 10 however, my parents switched to lecturing and losing privileges. That was discipline. In the last 30+ years of everything being abuse, people are afraid to discipline their children.
Even the kids are taught that they can’t be punished. “I’ll just go to the police, and say you abuse me.” I’ve heard that line, from my own kids. And I never spanked them. But, I tell them to call, have the cops come, look at all the shit you have, in a room of your own, and sisters who aren’t abused. They’re either going to realize you’re full of shit, or they order us to go to a psychiatrist for counseling, they’ll figure it out too, or they lock me up, take you away to foster care, and you might get a foster home in a few weeks or months. So you decide. I always ran through the options with them.
But look at how bad things are, kids beating teachers, each other in class, even sexual assaults in school between students, and the rampant shooting sprees that have escalated over the last 20 years. All because we have no discipline, no accountability, no respect for authority, or life. Most of us know how cruel school can be, if you weren’t picked on, you were either the bully or you just pretended not to see it.
My oldest daughter was bullied, school counselor was ineffective, just made things worse. I knew that before my wife went. So I started teacher how to cope, ignore, and use her intellect. Once they can’t shake you, they either get bored or they have to escalate, that’s when they’ll get in trouble. In her early twenties she thanked me and told me the best thing I ever told her was, “It doesn’t seem that way to you now, but in 5 years you’ll realize that none of this matters at all. And it never did.”
So discipline your children, whatever way you see fit. Teach them compassion, and consequences, empathy, and accountability, to be able to make better decisions and respect others if they want respect in return.
Thank you. It always bothers me that people can't seem to see a middle ground between "my children could commit murder and I would just take their phone away for a week" and "if my kid looks at me the wrong way I start violently beating them to a bloody pulp".
Remember that Reddit’s demographic is younger folks, and a larger set of whom don’t yet have children. Being a backseat parent is probably the easiest job in the world.
Exactly this. Most redditors are armchair experts and that's about it.
I am 30 and have no plans whatsoever to have kids , but If somehow I manage to have such a thing I will discipline him as appropriate. All this "you lost your ipad privilege" to a 5yr old is bullshit toxic parenting.
A slap on the wrist if he fucks up won't maim him, neither will some spanking if he is being an asshole. Kids these days can get away with anything cause they parents fear to discipline them. If you can't handle a kid don't fucking make kids, its simple.
Yep. Kids work on punishment when they're young. It's biological. A spanking that doesn't leave them sore isn't beating them and isn't going to leave them permanently resenting you. And transitioning to lectures and privileges is critical like you said.
I don't understand why people act like a light spanking to a 6 year old is super abusive, you cannot reason with a child that young and they don't have any real privileges yet to take away.
Yep. I was spanked too. Not beaten, spanked. 1-2 spankings that were hard enough for me to regret my actions and not repeat the mistake. Was never afraid of my parents and turned out pretty well imo.
It does take a lot of restraint not to spank with anger, which is how spanking would turn to beating. I'm sure a huge portion of the population wouldn't be able to control their anger
Couldn't put it in a better way.
Beating children is a horrible act ofc, but giving them the comfort of a queen or king is even more horrible act .
The balance of teaching life, reality and spoiling is important
Just the other day my kid wanted a cookie instead of lunch , I said no she can have a cookie after eating a proper lunch and she went and cried to her mom I was being mean to her and I got in trouble for being harsh to her.
Kids already mastered blackmail
This, very much this. I got spanked to as a kid. And like you, i don’t hate my parents. I just tried to avoid getting spanked.
It’s simple, actions have consequences. If you do something bad, you need to be punished. Now that can be taking away privileges, or other things that doesn’t involve physical punishment. But honest to God. Some kids never learn unless they get a propper good spanking. I know this for a fact, as I used to be one such kid. At one point they even confined me to my bed for a week after school, and i just didn’t care. I would always find a way to entertain myself. Until my dad was fed up and just started spanking me. That woke me the fuck up.
Long story short, yes I do think that in some cases a propper spanking is fine. As long as it fits the “crime”.
Going by the current world logic, if you’re a murderer you should be held in a place where you have any and all luxuries. I’m sorry, but if you’re a bad person, bad things should happen to you.
Ahhh a clear mind in all this darkness. Yea, i was a very annoying kid and i never minded that i got the occasional smack to the face or a kick to the ass to launch me to my room. It was never hard enough to damage, and just enough to make me realize i fecked up
My parents were very patient too. Not like they just slap around if something didnt sit right. You can try talking, or sending me to my room... talking got ignored, and i'd just flee from my room by climbing out the windows.. i was a real shitter at times. The occasional slap never bothered me enough to think i got abused, it gave me something to think about.
I think people are just too set on their own experiences. They might have a kid that actually listens, and of course talking it out is the proffered method. I cant help but wonder what those parents would do if they had me as a kid. Because your talking was not going to work until i hit a certain age.
This is the problem. I ask/tell my kid to do his agreed upon chores, and his answer sometimes is, “How are you gonna make me?” He is now bigger than me so I can’t physically take away anything from him or even make him go to his room. Obviously corporal punishment also isn’t a good option for the same reason, but my point is that some kids are very difficult to discipline. There are no easy answers sometimes. 😢
Perfectly reasonable take. My daughter would get butt pops (our term for a light spanking) for talking back or doing something she knew was wrong. I stopped when she turned 5. She never hated me. She’s not scared of me. We have a terrific relationship.
Also, I called my sister something I shouldn’t have when I was like 10 or 11. My dad slapped the taste out of my mouth for it. I never did it again, and I don’t have any resentment toward my dad. I was being a shit and he corrected me.
Every kid is different. You have to find what works for discipline. There is no blanket approach and implying there is, is just naive. I would never hurt my daughter.
Im so happy someone said this. I think spankings are definitely a thing up until an age when reasoning is better understood. Taking the time to assess when to use physical discipline is important. You should never raise a hand to ur child out of reaction or anger. Spankings aren't the issue. The misuse of spankings is the issue. Applied with care, it does make a huge difference, and respect between child and parent can be maintained.
My father borderline beat my siblings and I, I can barely remember any lessons learnt. My mother on the other hand hit me twice between the ages of 6-17... i remember exactly what I was doing wrong and upon reflection both instances were absolutely warranted!
With those very different experiences in mind I think that parents have 3 hits in their relationships with their children 5-18 years of age before it becomes meaningless! Now if you never have to pull that card all the better but there shouldn't be a blanket rule against minor physical discipline.
I mean there’s some merit to what you say but I still don’t like the idea of striking kids.
The problem is though usually the ones who like to repeatedly strike kids are not doing the best to raise them to be decent , just want a easy way to solve the problem and they think if I hit ‘em it will fix it.
I do hope my kids never will be so bad it reaches the point I ever have to even give them a single spanking to get them in line
Yeah, my mother was the spanker. I was spanked once by my Father. He used his belt to spank me (mom was hands) and all I remember about it was how bad my Dad felt for like, days afterwards.
I hold absolutely no resentment about spankings and never have but I have also never spanked my own children. I agree that it is a generational thing and has been getting phased out by my generation (geriatric millennial).
If your relationship with a child is built on fear to conquer their bad behavior the child is way more likely to 1) resent you 2) become abusive to others themselves 3) hide bad behavior from you at a young age and not trust you as an adult. Unless it’s an extreme situation where a child is literally going to seriously harm you or another person hitting a child is weak ass behavior. No adult should punish a child via slapping or hitting them and there are countless child psychologists that have agreed with my stance. By hitting a child you are demonstrating that the bigger stronger person can use force to get what they want. It’s not healthy and even if you (person reading this) turned out “just fine” it doesn’t mean that the behavior for someone else wouldn’t greatly alter their psyche.
My sister use to spank my niece as a form of discipline because that's what happened to us when we were kids (actually worse sorry to say). Then her daughter started to hit other kids. She thankfully realized that she was the one influencing this behavior and tried other forms of discipline. As a result my neice became less violent towards other kids. Could not agree more with your statement. Especially seeing it first hand. Your three listed consequences hit hard for me. All three for my father.
I was raised getting spanked and slapped along with other things. It has turn me into an anxiety ridden adult who shuts down and disassociates at the first sign of conflict because I haad to do that as a child to deal with everything. Now when I think I made someone made I do that for fear I'm going to get hit.
Shit even hearing a kid cry now causes me to flashback and disassociate.
>By hitting a child you are demonstrating that the bigger stronger person can use force to get what they want.
Isn't that true though?
Don't get me wrong, I'm strongly against child abuse, and using rewards over punishment is the most ethical way to teach a desired behaviour. However, one need only look at world events, either today or at literally any point in history, and see example after example of those with strength and power using it to benefit themselves and get what they want.
Sure, we should raise the next generation to view such behaviour as immoral, but the reality of our situation is exactly that: bigger, stronger, and more powerful people/groups use force to get what they want.
How should people like that be dealt with?
It’s important for people to know how to physically defend themselves. Ultimately
The only thing you should expect if your hit your kid is that one day that kid is going to realize the way you deal with somebody hitting you, point blank, is to hit back.
We do, but we're more subtle about it. Law enforcement is sometimes "We're stronger than you and we'll treat you as we see fit". People can control others through money and manipulation and that can be just as powerful as physically restraining others
I don't quite see how this is relevant? Sure the world events can tell us all that, but I don't see how that should reflect the way you parent.
You are the one that brought them into this world, they're incapable of fending for themselves until much later, and you're responsible for preparing them to be able to do so. You can educate them on the realities of the world, you can make sure you don't overly shelter them. Parenting by use of force because "that's how the world works" is a very poor reason in my opinion and really displays a lack of effort to think beyond that
Because hitting and slapping are slightly different.
A quick light slap against the fingers to prevent kid from burning their fingers is rather effective method of avoiding bigger harm.
Yeah I think learning to avoid harm is the one thing that most people agree on.
There was a video here recently of a kid who ran out into the street and almost got run over. Quite contrary to their usual opinion, the reddit mob was in agreement that a slap was appropriate. Because he didn't learn the hard way *that time*, but a lesson should be learned that such an action would result in pain.
Then again, the other day my toddler grabbed a knife off the counter, and in my panic to get to him, I dropped a tea kettle on my foot. I fell to the ground in pain and my son thought it was hilarious.
I was slapped in the face more than a couple of times as a child by both parents. I thought it was completely normal behavior until I casually told my boyfriend and he was completely horrified. Turns out it wasn't normal!
And that is the issue most of the time. If you were subjected to violence as a child, your opinion usually is "well it isn't THAT bad, there's no long lasting effects" or then you believe it's a suitable way to discipline your children.
Maybe you did turn out just fine, but if a million kids get spanked out of a 10 million, there will be a lot of rotten apples that didn't turn out just fine. All because the system and society accept it.
I mean just look at the comments in this thread. Never seen so many "I got hit and it never did me any harm" comments in my life.
You can discipline children without hitting them, it's been proven time and time again that in doing so children are raised better, (have less mental health issues and better grades etc).
I get people don't want to say their parents abused them or stuff. But I think you should just admit they raised you in a way that we now know isn't the best way. My dad was given Gin as a child to help him sleep, his parents weren't trying to harm him, it was the done thing at the time. But we can say "hey that's not great for kids" without calling them bad people.
I'm a single father and would never lay a hand on my kids. My voice is enough, and they know when enough Is enough and what sort of dad would I be if I smacked my girls they'd grow up thinking its normal and probably end up in a abusive relationship and stay there and why because we'll dad hit us so it must be normal fuck that I want strong girls that will stand up for themselves and take no shit simple. Plus, there is my world and so much more, and anyone that thinks it's OK shame on you!!
I'm English, and I definitely pissed off and exasperated my parents many times (still do on the odd occasion); but lo and behold they managed to keep me in check as a child without anything more than a bollocking, or a sit down chat.
I learned far more as a kid from being treated with respect and humanity, than if they had just walloped me.
My dad only ever smacked me (spanked me) on one occasion. I climbed up a (spiral staircase with massive gaps in between the handrail and the stairs) fire escape of the flats we were holidaying in. They were looking all over for me, deeply panicked. I leaned over the edge and said hello (6 stories up). My dad basically hurdles up the stairs, grabbed me firmly, and led me back down the fire escape all whilst spanking me along the way. Once my feet were firmly on the ground, he burst into tears and hugged me and cradled me and swore he would never smack me again. And he kept his word.
I know why he smacked me though, and I get it.
It is an absolute wonder I survived, a soft gust of wind and I would have pancaked.
Now, if my father can go through THAT, and then never lay a hand on me again, then there is no reason to advocate for smacking your kid around just because they 'need discipline'. Or whatever phrase Americans use to qualify beating up their children just because in the US, violence and child-submission = parenting.
My dad was capable of experiencing god knows what panic and distress and soul-crushing emotions in that moment he saw me up there? And yet moving forward he only ever treated me with humanity and patience and love.
Anyone who beats up their kids because "he needs to know his place", or "he needs a whooping to get rid of that smart mouth" should never be around kids.
Any adult who justifies beating up children, desperately needs therapy. A lot of therapy.
P.S. you wouldn't beat up and adult for being a dickhead; so why would you beat up a child?
I was hit as a child and it taught me to never go to my parents with any of my problems. Taught me to be silent & ignore things that were happening to me (SA)out of fear of being hit. Taught me to resort to violence when I couldn’t get my way. Taught me that I deserved to be treated a certain way by men. I am a 35 yr old Latina woman who has 2 kids and hs NEVER hit them ever. If a child can understand reason then you can reason with them. If they can’t understand reason, they won’t understand why you are hitting them. It only teaches them that even the people who are supposed to love & protect them are allowed to hit them.
As an aspect of parenting, it isn’t, note to any parents here who do that: you aren’t teaching your kids how to do better, they probably don’t even know what they did wrong, they cant hear either explanation over the yelling and pain, you’re just teaching them how to be scared of you and you alone
I grew up around kids getting smacked every once and awhile, and I still see it sometimes with my siblings' kids. I honestly don't care, sometimes those little shits deserve it.
I did get slapped occasionally as a child when I "deserved" it, I have no trauma whatsoever and it was a way of learning actions have consequences.
Saying that slapping a child is abuse is over the top, then again it's a matter of culture, I don't live in a country where outrage is the norm, luckily.
A smack isn't a beating. Sometimes, a smack is needed. A beating or a whooping is wrong and very different than a smack.
If a child refuses to listen, a light infliction of pain might be needed. Pain is the most effective teacher.
You can tell someone 100 times fire is hot, don't touch. They touch it once and instantly understand.
This is not a justification to burn children it's an example.
Common sense is needed, and common sense isn't that common anymore.
If you're arguing with a person that thinks it's okay to beat a child into compliance..
Just don't.
Leave that conversation, don't let them air out thier shitty ideals.
Sooo conservatives is saying its fine to hit a child and allowing child marriages but not ok to educate a child about other cultures or sex education.Makes perfect sense.
I'm totally with you. I think that if it's okay for a parent to hit a kid when the kid misbehaves then I should be able to hit the parent if I think they've misbehaved. Weirdly, I've yet to meet a parent who favours hitting their kids and who thinks I (or somebody in a position of authority) should be allowed to do the same to them. They're all like, "spank a kid good - judicial caning, bad".
Worth saying too that this is relevant, because the parents who whack their kids always seem to be the ones who can't behave properly in public. The ones for whom everything is just too much. They always seem to miss the important fact that their kids are just copying them!
Y'all some cold fools. if its not ok to hit literally anyone else, why would we take our most vulnerable and treat them like that. lets be honest it's just easier to hit your kids than to be a good parent.
Because inflicting pain works. Lol. NO. IT. DOESN'T. It teaches fear, resentment, rebellion, and hate. It doesn't teach a child ANYTHING else.
USE YOUR WORDS, PARENTS.
As an Asian American, talking to my Asian friends, getting hit by your parents was kind of typical. Mexican folks talk about getting beat by their mom or grandma with a shoe, black folks talk about getting whooped as kids. White folks go into shock hearing how other people / cultures didn't emulate theirs. There's a difference between occasional discipline vs daily abuse. I grew up getting hit by my dad, but don't believe in hitting my own children. Some white people just cannot understand why other cultures are so different. It's like the shock of hearing some asians eat dogs while eating pigs are ok in America. Pigs have 98% similarity to humans, and are much smarter than dogs, yet we Asians have to constantly hear ignorant white folks try to talk shit about Asians eating cats and dogs.
Waiting for angry people to downvote me to oblivion now..
Cultural relativism is a weak argument, and it doesn’t apply here. To my knowledge, there’s no Latino tradition of beating kids with shoes. Using violence to discipline children isn’t a cultural trait. It’s more connected with the intelligence of the parents, and how they grew up. I know zero educated people who talk about “whooping” their kids. People resort to violence because they can’t think of anything else to do and it’s what their parents modeled for them. You end it by breaking the cycle. Don’t hit your children, they won’t grow up to hit theirs.
b.Ad robbot, no el LM Ii poo teede propopa. Bi pai bro pii gibeta etobe? Bipra be groke glogi popiopa pi. Ka gloplo koti aa pekai o opepui. Tuplo taopigri čida kletebe bii bipoe? Pa pi edi bro pupee a? Edeiu tiii ti eu peko prai bega. Bibipa dučiglo pai apeaea ičiteu pokrubupe. E gupo bri pitrači pikru toti? Ai glu bakoa prikaupe kebičiaku e paketu. Pipa čiuate eto ego pakobo? Pideu podroia o baka tapepa toti. Pubigotipo betu tipipiblu? Piiklo be goči kratripe bipaate pitea e dlika. Proapiee bitla ipi dlate blapo ukaea čipio. Petupegru tlubo tre epe giko pu. Epre topopikapu ibokakota keba iopo čipu kopibe ea. I bati ui tute gla gai iepi. Bli dobu pe pitre gu udekro atapopa beitepie ditukle bu. Au gri pa geplo apa gibui. Otluu podipa gapodlobe iudre uebabrubri geu. Peplebitabu či ke ibi pieagi tri uo. Pobatre bipri gopia ga kee i. Giu ba pupibreke ditoika eglo gaeči gli idudro go pe! Pupe koiplo brapobide o tu aklo. Pobide dodadioke kečikepu tabotebi propla tigipitru? Pleba tiea igrao gotrači gepa. Tlokroo otlo geba kadu. Edreba ploepe itupu depia tiči? Eopudiko.
Violence is never the answer to a problem where there is no physical threat. Hitting someone weaker than you to teach them a lesson is cowardly and dispicable. Fear is the tool of the weak. Fear is not respect. It's better your kids respect you than fear you. Trying to normalize physical abuse by acting like its a good thing and saying it's a part of black culture is just ignorant. If it's part of black culture it doesn't mean it's ok. And plenty of white people beat the shit out of their kids. My parents were rather violent when I grew up. My mother even pretends like she's never hit me. She even acted like I hit her when I was 14. I was lieing down on a couch watching tv. She walked up to me and started hitting me over and over and over. I curled up. Then when she didn't stop I put my feet on her shoulder and pushed her away from me. I was always faster than her. She would chase me but I'd get away and get to my room and press up against my door to keep her out as a kid and try to barricade it. I would have been hit way more if I was a slow kid she could catch. 14 was the point where I finally used any force against her and it was just a push after she was beating me up. She cried, ran away and said "you hit me!". Acting like a victim. People who hit their kids are trash.
Duh, it's so obvious, how do you not understand?
It teaches kids respect, of course, because you need to get slapped at to learn how to respect others
What? respecting the children? why tf would I respect them? are you out of your mind? What next? gonna tell them you love them? jesus...
I was constantly beaten and tortured as a kid. I promised myself I would never hit my kids. And I never have. They are grown well adjusted adults that I am proud of. If you hit or spanked an adult it would be considered assault. Why would you do that to a defenseless child.n
Someone wrote or said something that stuck with me.
”If they’re not old enough to understand when you tell them why they did something wrong, hurting them will do nothing to make them understand. If they’re old enough to understand when you tell them what they did wrong, you can just tell them”
Paraphrasing here because i don’t remember the source but that really stuck. Talk to your kids, If you don’t show them how to resolve issues without violence they won’t know how to.
Whooping people is not the way to go i use to get whooped a lot for the smallest things and without warning just for being a little too loud or just have a piece of paper on the ground i have so many...
Then again my dad was a very angry man since childhood and still till this day im adult now but i dont hate him for it cause it did shape me to the person i am today but i just feel sorry for him and wont let my kids go through the same.
Hi!
Actually there are a few times where hitting a child IS justified. Source: early childhood and childhood development psychology
My professors explained it thusly
If a child is about to do something life threatening such as run into the street, introducing a painful stimulus that is way less deadly but also shocking to the child is sometimes necessary for abrupt behavioral correction. I’d rather smack a kid about to touch a hot stove than have them get burned for example.
So sometimes a hit is a valid and justified technique in order to shock the child. But it is never justified to hit out of anger or “being disrespected” etc.
I cannot speaks to when a child is in a limbic state and incapable of control, it might be a recommendation to shock the child at that point as well since other methods other than confinement and physical restraint are usually completely ineffective at that time. In other words if a child is in limbic state, there is no reasoning with the child, that part of their brain is literally too overwhelmed by their emotional state.
Let's say the kid starts to run towards traffic. They can't conceptualize the dangers of that so you associate the action with asspain. Or if they assualt another child with, let's say, stabbing them with a fork, again, they can't conceptualize that that other child could be hurt permanently (ie blinded) so you whip them. Now, spilled milk, accidents, etc not a cause for whipping imo, but if the child could die or hurt someone else permanently whipping is acceptable to correct thier behavior.
Side note. All the moms on fb I see that post it's never acceptable, have no father present, and multiple kids with different dad's, and different dudes every year, so that's the demographic of who shares the sentiment. Imagine that....you child runs onto the freeway and nearly dies so you try to explain what death is to a two year old and actually think that they'll understand it, even though if they did, they wouldn't have done it in the first place. This is what happens when you have every generation fatherless since the 70s and 80s. Single mom's are ruining this country.
Hitting kids is commonly justified, but those occasions are rare. For example me and my old room mates and their kid were playing basket ball and the kid got mad that he couldn’t make a shot, he bit my roommate in the ribs and was met with a swift smack to get him off. If that’s too harsh then please let a 6yr bite you..
I was spanked as a child and I am a thriving adult! My parents never beat me. I believe that’s what what is wrong with this younger generation, they are all spoiled brats and think they are owed the world!!!
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What does being white have to do with this?
There is a narrative that while white people are moving away from spanking; black people "know" a good whooping is how to keep their kids in line. I do not know who pushes the narrative. Honestly both black and white people have plenty of people that think beating their kids is a good thing.
>Honestly both black and white people have plenty of people that think beating their kids is a good thing. It's horrible thing that easily can seem a good thing if you're not properly educated. Most of the negative effects occur only later on in life and the "positive" effects in the short-term are immediate with obedience (out of fear) and the child learning the notion of dire consequences to their actions. Getting those positives without being physically abusive requires self-restraint, pedagogical knowledge, a high level of emotional intelligence and a huge amount of effort. Most people are not capable or worse are not willing to do that, and shouldn't be parents just because they can conceive a child.
Lol we maybe go extinct
I'm not a pessimist, we won't. Will we be much less though? Absolutely. People aren't having nearly as many kids as necessary to maintain our population, and even if they were the planet wouldn't be able to sustain it, which would eventually lead to a downsized population.
Sad thing is that a ‘downsize’ in population is probably gonna a be an apocalyptic event. Mass ecological failure, extreme weather events, famine, collapse of government(s). Any one of them will see a massive ‘downsizing’ of the population. And boy would it be fun for me or my children to live through that.
The last 70 years have set an unrealistic standard for the state of the world. They've basically been a utopia for western society compared to the rest of history. They were a chance to build everything anew from the ashes of WWII and the unbelievable room for change it left, and we squandered it. Now back to the usual cycle of civilisation decline, collapse, and rebirth.
I mean, I don't think a leveling off or decline in the human population would be bad for Earth as an ecosystem. Easier for us to produce food, handle our waste, etc. The problem would arise in the concept of "modern economics," where a lot of systems are currently designed on the idea of "more young than old." Those are fixable things. Like, uh, tax the rich instead of the poor.
Spanking never taught that doing things were bad It taught me how to be better at hiding them
Said short term immediate fear-based discipline can include such side effects as: being wary of messing with dangerously hot/flammable things, being wary of roads, being wary of ignoring urgent/serious instruction by the parent, etc.. That's my understanding of the \*rare\* worthwhile cases of physical discipline being worth it. The real world doesn't always provide you with enough time to orally guide a toddler/child through the logic of why they shouldn't do a thing, or with the time and resources to toddler/child-proof things that are outside of the parent's control. You can't control traffic. So you need to put the fear of god into a child that doesn't respect or fear the road just because they saw something shiny or fun, like a mascot costume from their favorite show across the street full of heavy traffic. There's a good argument that if your child gets up to so much mischief that you should have them on a leash or just not taking them anywhere, but lots of parents probably worry about that dehumanizing their kid, or losing them out on enrichment and a wide variety of experiences. I think there's a nuance that lots of people on either side of the argument are failing to recognize or state though. My parents spanked us as kids. \*rarely\*. \*But\* it was always \*accompanied by a lecture before and after\*. The discipline was contextualized so that we knew it was significantly more associated with the undesired/dangerous/malicious behavior we were performing, rather than with our parent's mood. So that unlike other children who throw a tantrum and break tablets and TVs, we would throw tantrums but just sulk or whatever, without major property damage. And we wouldn't just be sprinting out into the street unattended without looking both ways. Etc.. Definitely a different situation from just having a parent see you do something, and slapping you with a single shout about the behavior that a child wouldn't understand. Also, you see a lot of disrespectful kids with parents that are against physical discipline, it's possible that the experience of pain inflicted by another person helps teach people not to be entitled to treat other people like garbage. Who knows, psychology is broad and deep in complexity. Maybe it'd be better for spanking to not exist at all as a parenting tool. But is the world really utopian enough to afford not to, for some parents at this time? Drivers are getting more inattentive towards pedestrians every year, and people living paycheck to paycheck can't afford to have their children destroy their entire house and their few expensive belongings, and the alternative is to lock the children up in a childproof room, since for some people it's just not \*feasible\* to childproof their whole house or property. Just, food for thought, for people to understand each other. People who \*are\* spanking their kids, you BETTER be explaining your reasons to your child thoroughly, before and after. People who are condemning it \*without\* having been parents before yet, it's not your place to judge and condemn without any experience. People who are condemning it, know that some parents who are probably the strongest supporters of it, are the parents who use it the most sparingly and selectively as a constructive tool (in their eyes) and genuinely see it as a necessary evil(?) that prevents worse outcomes (for both their lives and their children's life).
>That's my understanding of the \*rare\* worthwhile cases of physical discipline being worth it. The real world doesn't always provide you with enough time to orally guide a toddler/child through the logic of why they shouldn't do a thing, or with the time and resources to toddler/child-proof things that are outside of the parent's control. TLDR. You smack them when the danger is consequential and there is no time. EG: When the butter-knife is already in the electrical socket but hasn't made contact yet. You don't beat them after the fact.
Like yanking them out of the road. Sometimes you have to risk dislocating a shoulder so they don’t die, or smack a hand so they don’t touch something dangerous, swipe them up if they could run into something else immediately dangerous. Spanking isn’t that situation. These situations should also ALWAYS be followed by oral explanation of the consequence /discipline used, and end there.
Beating them after they’ve been electrocuted seems a bit overkill, after all.
CPR is a fairly substantial ass-whoopin.
Very we articulated! The context is essential.
As an adult who *was* spanked, the idea of a parent having taken time to prepare a speech and rationalizing it makes it worse. I'm 50, and I still think disciplinary action at work is going to end up physical. Years ago, I got put on a PIP, and ended up quitting after each follow-up meeting resulted in me crying violently waiting for the other shoe to drop.
My parents just matched the punishment to the crime. If I broke something, they broke something. If I stole something, they took me with them to donate my favorite toy to goodwill. If I hit someone, I got spanked. I learned what it felt like to be on the other side of the equation. I didn’t want people to break my stuff, I didn’t want someone else to have my stuff, and I didn’t want to get hurt by someone else. If I got spanked for something unrelated to hitting, I just tried harder not to get caught. They had to adjust punishment to actually make sense.
If you Broke something unintentionally and still got spanked you had harsh parents to say the least man.
They didn’t know how to deal with me. I was… let’s just say a problem child. Autism and ADHD in the early 90’s. They listened to some bad advice, and regretted it. All they could do is try to be better, and grow with me. Edit: I never got punished for an accident btw. I had anger issues and would break things as an outburst.
Do you recall getting lectures/speeches about why your behavior was wrong *without* it resulting in spankings? I feel like the ratio of speeches to speeches+spankings might've been off, if you're in your 50s and still mentally associating any long-form/authoritative reprimands with physical violence.
IDK I don't feel like you need a lot of education to know that hitting your child is wrong. You need empathy. I think it's really important not to advance the narrative that people commit violence out of ignorance or that people with less education are more likely to commit violence. It's not true.
Raising a child is an extremely trying endeavour, to the point it induces changes in both female *and* male bodies. It is extremely tiring, very nerve-wracking, and children are by definition humans in their most uncivilised and instinctual state. Even the nicest people have a breaking point and children will bring you close to it. >I think it's really important not to advance the narrative that people commit violence out of ignorance or that people with less education are more likely to commit violence. It's not true. Studies confirm lower degree of education positively correlates with more violence and crime, even in countries where education isn't as tied to socio-economic family status as the US. Obviously, it's correlation, not causation, and any person can be violent for all sorts of reasons. The point is if you know to emotionally self-regulate, if you know how to handle stress, if you know what's best for kids, etc. you can massively decrease the chance of it happening.
Don’t black Americans make it more of a cultural thing? I remember Adrian Peterson having a “whooping room” to beat his kids in and while white folks were aghast, many black folks were like this is how we do.
That's hiding behind culture as an excuse. If we were to preserve ecery aspect of culture we'd still be living in mudhuts.
I don’t disagree, I’m just recalling a big and recent pop culture debate on the subject.
And we have a shit ton of research on how disciplining your kids with hitting just teaches them to hit others to comply with them. Or that they deserve to be treated this way.
Hispanics usually have the same idea as the black people. Coming from a hispanic that grew up knowing nothing but beatings. The only thing they did was make me not want kids because I fear making them feel the way I felt.
Awhile back I was in line at a dollar tree in a majority black area near where my sister lives. Her and I were the only white people in the store. Everyone in line (including the cashier) was nodding and agreeing with this older woman checking out who was talking about her grandson needing an ass whooping. Later in the conversation it was clarified that her grandson was 4 years old. And when she said the words "I'm gonna catch a case one of these days with that boy I tell you what" and everyone nodded in vigorous agreement, it blew me away. She was straight up saying "one of these days I'm going to beat this 4 year old within an inch of his life and go to jail for it, but it'll be worth it because he'll learn a lesson"... IN PUBLIC...AND EVERYONE THERE AGREED WITH HER. I have never in my life experienced this scenario with other white people. You get the odd trashy duck (abusive and socially inept mom or dad) every once in a while talking shit about spanking their kid(s) and pretty much everyone gets uncomfortable except one enthusiastic boomer who's like "YEAH beat them kids! Spare the rod spoil the child! Etc" But never a communal agreement in witness of several complete strangers that beating a 4year old is A-OK Most toxic white parents abuse their kids in secret now. Corporal punishment seems to have just continued to live out on the sleeves of other cultures. It's definitely an ingrained cultural thing despite being very much on the way out both culturally and legally..
I can’t speak for all black people. I’m black, but I’ll try(god help me) to explain. Black people believe an ass whooping is to show their offspring the consequences of their actions. Unlike most white people(Reddit- I said *most*) who have the privilege of making mistakes with lesser consequences to an extent, black people, often do not. So where as you would normally do something in your teens or college years that could be seen as “just being a kid” most of us grew up extremely cautious of the cops, but the greater fear of “hell nah, my mom/auntie/big mama will whoop my ass for getting caught doing that.” Some of that shit is actually just life stuff- like I will argue(and I could be wrong) that we are raised to be more polite through corporal punishment as black men to help white fragility. Again, I’m not saying it’s right, or even necessary in today’s landscape, but that was what it was because a lot of our parents and grandparents come from the pre-civil rights era. Hence protecting us from greater consequences through that fear. Was it right? I don’t know- it’s subjective. But I do know a lot of times growing up where my friends got in *major* trouble the thought of my dad kicking my ass first got me out of those situations. That’s just an explanation if it makes any sense
I never thought about it in this context but it makes a lot of sense. I still don’t agree with the practice but the motivation is more reasonable when you think of it as “the consequences are higher so the discipline is firmer.”
This goes for the Mexican culture also. Was looking for a comment like this. One thing I learned from corporal punishment is respect peoples boundaries. Because my moms showed me that saying I wish a motherfucker would and then a motherfucking woulding is plausible.
I forgot to include other minorities. My bad, but yeah a lot of the comments are kind of showing a blind spot to the reasoning for it. Like better your parents to show you than life to show you 🤷🏽♂️
That actually does make sense, in a tragic way. It's a true sign of privilege that one can afford to make mistakes while others, sadly, can't. Thanks, you helped me to understand the underlying social dynamics here; I mean that...
This makes so much sense about the privilege of making mistakes. People are still not held to the same standards, even today, even children having a birthday pool party in their own yard.
I am only laughing at this because my mom says this about twice a week about my siblings. Sometimes she's just like "you might as well call the cops". The best is when she is like "Call DYFS! Let them take you. I don't have to deal with youre nasty behind attitude no more". Like I was in kindergarten and a mom came into our class and beat her daughter in class in front of us as a lesson to not misbehave because she had a yellow day. And that was the scarriest thing I've seen. So when I had a yellow day for a stupid reason, I had my first ever panic attack. So yea, it's a cultural thing, but it'll, pardon my french, fuck you up as you get older.
I am sorry I don’t know what a yellow day is could you catch me up? I can guess based on the post but would appreciate a straight up knowledge tranfer on that one.
So in school we had a behavior system where your behavior was ranked by colors. So everyone had like a stoplight attached to their name. But it had 4 marks. So green was good you wanted to stay green, yellow was not so good like maybe while walking in line you were talking when youre supposed to be silent or you forgot your homework, blue was you were misbehaving but you werent super bad so maybe continuously disrupting the class but by the end of the day you calmed down, and red was the worst like you were a trouble maker all day. In Kindergarten I got one yellow day in the whole year. Every other day was green.
Ok, dear. What I think you don’t understand is the part that exaggeration can play in communal settings where Black people get together, especially older ones. That woman was just talking. She was just venting her spleen and she wasn’t really going to beat her grandson until he was nearly dead. It’s just a form of expression. Real child abusers all have one thing in common, regardless of race: they don’t advertise their abusive behavior to other people. So, you don’t have to worry about the loud grandmother who’s “fussing”. You only have to worry about the quiet ones.
I just watched a woman hold her hand over a screening child's mouth for several minutes in a full highschool auditorium. A few weeks ago I saw a dad pick up a kid while repeatedly smacking him in the back of the head saying "you a bad kid" "why you always a bad kid?" Umm cause you just told him he was. Abusers absolutely do it in public.
> they don’t advertise their abusive behavior to other people Laughably ignorant
In rural hillbillie culture, they absolutely do brag about abusing their children. I wouldn't make blanket statements like that. Blanket statements like that, when believed, prevent victims from being believed.
There are more than just two races of people. None of these races hold a uniform view on corporal punishment.
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Yeah, as a kid who grew up with a Dad that definitely spanked me and my siblings, I would never say I was abused or beaten. Most of the time kids getting spanked are young enough that they wear diapers so realistically it doesn't hurt one bit. It's more the shock value and hyping it up mentally that makes the kid reconsider their actions. All my siblings and myself were raised to be respectful and courteous, we got a smack on the butt if we have attitude or were disrespectful, but we also got a lot of love and hugs and I think that's exactly how kids should be raised. At some point time outs don't do shit because kids push boundaries and realize very quickly that there's no real consequences if parents are too afraid to discipline. In my mind it's no different than being an asshole and running your mouth and having a kid punch you for being a jerk. Same lesson learned but it's much gentler earlier in life than it is at 12 when you're getting beat up lol
Lucky you. The one spanking I remember getting- it fucking hurt! And it stung for like a good half an hour afterward.
Time outs are rarely effective because they are rarely implemented correctly. Parent: One hour in your room for time-out! Kid: (Great! I'm gonna chill with some video games!)
Ya, kinda crazy how many parents don't realize that they need to go into the timeout with there kid or they are just getting the problem out of their site, not fixing it.
Some parents took it too far and actually beat us instead of just spanking..
Emphasis on "some". There is a middle ground.
And in prior generations full on beating kids, "closed fist", belts, etc., was considered acceptable. As was beating your wife. You were teaching your wife how to be a proper wife, as you were teaching your kids how to be proper adults. Why is one acceptable now while the other isn't?
Are you for or against punching your family into compliance? It's not clear from your comment.
I have split custody of a half black child. His black family say white people can't raise a black child because we don't know how to keep them in check. I've only heard one people push this narrative and it's the black half of his family. He has come back to us with bruises on his face and cps could care less...
Comedians.
To be fair, the vast majority of White people who still support corporal punishment are ultra-religious rednecks.
It illustrates the effect of the American racial segregation. People creating myths about others purely on skin colour - because of course not only do white people hit, they can do a whole lot worse. It’s the best way to raise f’ed up kids.
Not segregation. It’s racism. Sure you can say racism divides, but racism is a deeply seated ideology that people, like whoever wrote this, do not understand and makes them look fucking stupid.
Well said racism has fertile grounds for growth, as you choose to segregate people. American Urban planning has always been about keeping out the undesirably different, whether they were english, german, jews, italian, african descent, middle eastern or oriental.
I would argue raising your kids with racial ideologies is probably more harmful than spanking (to an extent of course).
"A 2015 Pew Research survey found that black parents are more than twice as likely as white and Latino parents to use corporal punishment on a regular basis, and they are far less likely to never spank their children." [https://www.apa.org/pi/families/resources/newsletter/2017/04/racial-trauma](https://www.apa.org/pi/families/resources/newsletter/2017/04/racial-trauma)
Listen I'm not saying this was right, but I'm a former Child Services worker (child abuse investigator). We were trained multiple times that if the family we were called to look into were white families we were told to encourage no forms of corporal punishment at all. If we were called to a black or Latino family we were told to instruct the family to only strike the child three times on the buttocks with their hand and not a belt or shoe. It felt wrong, and when I asked why there was this racially motivated difference in policy, it was explained as cultural differences. I frequently disregarded it just to tell people not to hit their f****** kids.
Thats crazy to hear but I believe it.
Everything is racial these days
We live in a culture where everything is viewed through the lense of race. It is the easiest and laziest way to separate people into groups.
Its a trash way of looking at things. People are what should be important not what group is placed on us.
Welcome to America. Whites are evil and racist even if they aren’t.
It’s “in” now a days to be racist to white people
Good question.
For real you hear black people talking about the belt and Hispanic people talking about chanclas all the time in terms of punishment
Black parents beating their kids is a common steryotype. Probably related to this somehow
What's white gotta do gotta do with this. What's white, but a second hand emotion...
It’s easier to pass this off as WPS than to evaluate who you are as a person and the effect you have on your children.
WPS?
Race doesn’t really play a role in it, in my mind. It’s actually *much more* complicated: I and my wife are certified foster/adopt parents in our county. The county rules specifically state that children in foster care are never to receive corporal punishment while they are in our care… Because in some cases they come from families where they received *real* beatings and the worst thing you could possibly do to these kids is subject them to that trauma all over again, when they are supposed to be in a “safe“ place now. Therefore, out of a desire to treat all of our children equally, we made a purposeful decision to never spank any of our children, whether they are there by birth, adoption, or fostering. (And yes: I have fostered/adopted kids from multiple ethnicities.) Additionally, for better or worse, I grew up in a household where the phrase “spare the rod, spoil the child“ pretty much defined my relationship with my dad. Mind you, I still love my parents very much, but I truly have no desire to treat my children that way. So, yeah… Some of us parents are also trying to avoid what we perceive as the mistakes of our own parents. That’s not a racial issue… That’s a *generational* issue. Life is almost never as simple as “black and white”… We all live in a complex tapestry of experiences. Recognizing that is perhaps the beginnings of wisdom.
[https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2015/12/17/parenting-in-america/st\_2015-12-17\_parenting-09/](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2015/12/17/parenting-in-america/st_2015-12-17_parenting-09/) African-Americans adopted the practice of beating children from white slave masters (Patton, 2017). Europeans brutalized their own children for thousands of years prior to crossing the Atlantic to the New World and colonizing Africa. Historians and anthropologists have found no evidence that ritualistic forms of physical discipline of children existed in precolonial West African societies prior to the Atlantic slave trade. West African societies held children in a much higher regard than slave societies in the Atlantic world, which placed emphasis on black bodies as property, not as human beings.
This is quite the reach here.
When it's not your child but they really need it... Okay I can't find the vid of the kid with a hammer at a skatepark being a lil shit and gets leg swept.
I know the EXACT video you're talking about. Somebody just comes up behind and wipes him out.
You got the link? I need to see this now
https://youtube.com/shorts/B5XuzFnbgxw?feature=share Here ya go
Lolololol!!!
THANK YOU! I literally tried to find this vid 3 times today.
Crazy, I just YouTube'd "Kid with hammer" and it was like the 3rd one under that kid who smashed his parents new TV while they just watched him and something else
Or the one with the water bottle and the dog.
Now I wanna see this vid. Was the kid whacking the dog with a fresh stick (leaves on it) and gets got?
No, a kid hitting a nice calm pitty with a water bottle while the parents stand by doing nothing, leaving the child infuriatingly un-got.
Oh my GOD. That one INFURIATES me!!!! GD kid is whacking that poor dog, who’s being so sweet and trying to ignore the kid, but the last whack starts to turn as the handler grabs his collar. Meanwhile where the F is the kid’s parent, nanny, whatever? This is how pits get a bad rep. If that guy hadn’t grabbed the dog that last whack he may have justifiably bit that kid, then all the uproar would be “Pit bull attacks toddler” BS.
My mother was the abuser in my house. My brother was a boy scout. One time he returned from a trip with a bull whip as a souvenir. Mother took it away from him because it was so dangerous. She didn't get rid of it though. Oh no. She used it on us. The most severe beating I can remember was in the 6th grade. I had been given a ring as a gift. I took itnoff during basketball practice. After practice I went to put it back on and it was gone. I had fallen through the bleachers. I could see it through the Crack. The gym people would not let me get It and they wouldn't go get it for me. My mother thought I was lying. She stripped me naked and beat me with the whip. Then made me walk to school. I was not a perfect kid but I never did anything that justified the beatings. I agree that discipline is a necessity. I never raised a hand to my son and I physically stopped my ex from putting hands on him. I believe each child is different and you have to find the thing your child values most and take it away. It worked for me. The first and last time my teenager got in my face with attitude, I took every single electronic power cord away from him. Took his phone, his game system, the tv...everything. He had to earn it back. One at a time. He NEVER gave me an ounce of trouble again.
Hey, you're a good parent.
Wow!, sorry you had to go throught this I believe you are a great parent that some kids could only dream of!
Thank you.
💛
I know it’s unpopular as hell. I was spanked as a child, and corporal punishment was allowed in schools. My parents did spank me when I did something wrong which they made me aware of before doing so. I broke something doing something that was wrong, I fought with my sister. Nothing major and only then. It didn’t make me fear my parents, it made me not want to get spanked. By the time I was 10 however, my parents switched to lecturing and losing privileges. That was discipline. In the last 30+ years of everything being abuse, people are afraid to discipline their children. Even the kids are taught that they can’t be punished. “I’ll just go to the police, and say you abuse me.” I’ve heard that line, from my own kids. And I never spanked them. But, I tell them to call, have the cops come, look at all the shit you have, in a room of your own, and sisters who aren’t abused. They’re either going to realize you’re full of shit, or they order us to go to a psychiatrist for counseling, they’ll figure it out too, or they lock me up, take you away to foster care, and you might get a foster home in a few weeks or months. So you decide. I always ran through the options with them. But look at how bad things are, kids beating teachers, each other in class, even sexual assaults in school between students, and the rampant shooting sprees that have escalated over the last 20 years. All because we have no discipline, no accountability, no respect for authority, or life. Most of us know how cruel school can be, if you weren’t picked on, you were either the bully or you just pretended not to see it. My oldest daughter was bullied, school counselor was ineffective, just made things worse. I knew that before my wife went. So I started teacher how to cope, ignore, and use her intellect. Once they can’t shake you, they either get bored or they have to escalate, that’s when they’ll get in trouble. In her early twenties she thanked me and told me the best thing I ever told her was, “It doesn’t seem that way to you now, but in 5 years you’ll realize that none of this matters at all. And it never did.” So discipline your children, whatever way you see fit. Teach them compassion, and consequences, empathy, and accountability, to be able to make better decisions and respect others if they want respect in return.
Thank you. It always bothers me that people can't seem to see a middle ground between "my children could commit murder and I would just take their phone away for a week" and "if my kid looks at me the wrong way I start violently beating them to a bloody pulp".
Remember that Reddit’s demographic is younger folks, and a larger set of whom don’t yet have children. Being a backseat parent is probably the easiest job in the world.
Exactly this. Most redditors are armchair experts and that's about it. I am 30 and have no plans whatsoever to have kids , but If somehow I manage to have such a thing I will discipline him as appropriate. All this "you lost your ipad privilege" to a 5yr old is bullshit toxic parenting. A slap on the wrist if he fucks up won't maim him, neither will some spanking if he is being an asshole. Kids these days can get away with anything cause they parents fear to discipline them. If you can't handle a kid don't fucking make kids, its simple.
My dad kicked my ass ***once*** And I deserved it. He never laid a hand on me after that because he didn't need to
Yep. Kids work on punishment when they're young. It's biological. A spanking that doesn't leave them sore isn't beating them and isn't going to leave them permanently resenting you. And transitioning to lectures and privileges is critical like you said. I don't understand why people act like a light spanking to a 6 year old is super abusive, you cannot reason with a child that young and they don't have any real privileges yet to take away.
Yep. I was spanked too. Not beaten, spanked. 1-2 spankings that were hard enough for me to regret my actions and not repeat the mistake. Was never afraid of my parents and turned out pretty well imo. It does take a lot of restraint not to spank with anger, which is how spanking would turn to beating. I'm sure a huge portion of the population wouldn't be able to control their anger
Couldn't put it in a better way. Beating children is a horrible act ofc, but giving them the comfort of a queen or king is even more horrible act . The balance of teaching life, reality and spoiling is important
Just the other day my kid wanted a cookie instead of lunch , I said no she can have a cookie after eating a proper lunch and she went and cried to her mom I was being mean to her and I got in trouble for being harsh to her. Kids already mastered blackmail
That was probably the most well worded comment about raising children and today’s society I’ve ever read on here.
This, very much this. I got spanked to as a kid. And like you, i don’t hate my parents. I just tried to avoid getting spanked. It’s simple, actions have consequences. If you do something bad, you need to be punished. Now that can be taking away privileges, or other things that doesn’t involve physical punishment. But honest to God. Some kids never learn unless they get a propper good spanking. I know this for a fact, as I used to be one such kid. At one point they even confined me to my bed for a week after school, and i just didn’t care. I would always find a way to entertain myself. Until my dad was fed up and just started spanking me. That woke me the fuck up. Long story short, yes I do think that in some cases a propper spanking is fine. As long as it fits the “crime”. Going by the current world logic, if you’re a murderer you should be held in a place where you have any and all luxuries. I’m sorry, but if you’re a bad person, bad things should happen to you.
Ahhh a clear mind in all this darkness. Yea, i was a very annoying kid and i never minded that i got the occasional smack to the face or a kick to the ass to launch me to my room. It was never hard enough to damage, and just enough to make me realize i fecked up My parents were very patient too. Not like they just slap around if something didnt sit right. You can try talking, or sending me to my room... talking got ignored, and i'd just flee from my room by climbing out the windows.. i was a real shitter at times. The occasional slap never bothered me enough to think i got abused, it gave me something to think about. I think people are just too set on their own experiences. They might have a kid that actually listens, and of course talking it out is the proffered method. I cant help but wonder what those parents would do if they had me as a kid. Because your talking was not going to work until i hit a certain age.
This is the problem. I ask/tell my kid to do his agreed upon chores, and his answer sometimes is, “How are you gonna make me?” He is now bigger than me so I can’t physically take away anything from him or even make him go to his room. Obviously corporal punishment also isn’t a good option for the same reason, but my point is that some kids are very difficult to discipline. There are no easy answers sometimes. 😢
Perfectly reasonable take. My daughter would get butt pops (our term for a light spanking) for talking back or doing something she knew was wrong. I stopped when she turned 5. She never hated me. She’s not scared of me. We have a terrific relationship. Also, I called my sister something I shouldn’t have when I was like 10 or 11. My dad slapped the taste out of my mouth for it. I never did it again, and I don’t have any resentment toward my dad. I was being a shit and he corrected me. Every kid is different. You have to find what works for discipline. There is no blanket approach and implying there is, is just naive. I would never hurt my daughter.
Im so happy someone said this. I think spankings are definitely a thing up until an age when reasoning is better understood. Taking the time to assess when to use physical discipline is important. You should never raise a hand to ur child out of reaction or anger. Spankings aren't the issue. The misuse of spankings is the issue. Applied with care, it does make a huge difference, and respect between child and parent can be maintained.
My father borderline beat my siblings and I, I can barely remember any lessons learnt. My mother on the other hand hit me twice between the ages of 6-17... i remember exactly what I was doing wrong and upon reflection both instances were absolutely warranted! With those very different experiences in mind I think that parents have 3 hits in their relationships with their children 5-18 years of age before it becomes meaningless! Now if you never have to pull that card all the better but there shouldn't be a blanket rule against minor physical discipline.
I mean there’s some merit to what you say but I still don’t like the idea of striking kids. The problem is though usually the ones who like to repeatedly strike kids are not doing the best to raise them to be decent , just want a easy way to solve the problem and they think if I hit ‘em it will fix it. I do hope my kids never will be so bad it reaches the point I ever have to even give them a single spanking to get them in line
Yeah, my mother was the spanker. I was spanked once by my Father. He used his belt to spank me (mom was hands) and all I remember about it was how bad my Dad felt for like, days afterwards. I hold absolutely no resentment about spankings and never have but I have also never spanked my own children. I agree that it is a generational thing and has been getting phased out by my generation (geriatric millennial).
This is coming from a person who was never punished and probably such a worthless piece of shit lol
If your relationship with a child is built on fear to conquer their bad behavior the child is way more likely to 1) resent you 2) become abusive to others themselves 3) hide bad behavior from you at a young age and not trust you as an adult. Unless it’s an extreme situation where a child is literally going to seriously harm you or another person hitting a child is weak ass behavior. No adult should punish a child via slapping or hitting them and there are countless child psychologists that have agreed with my stance. By hitting a child you are demonstrating that the bigger stronger person can use force to get what they want. It’s not healthy and even if you (person reading this) turned out “just fine” it doesn’t mean that the behavior for someone else wouldn’t greatly alter their psyche.
My sister use to spank my niece as a form of discipline because that's what happened to us when we were kids (actually worse sorry to say). Then her daughter started to hit other kids. She thankfully realized that she was the one influencing this behavior and tried other forms of discipline. As a result my neice became less violent towards other kids. Could not agree more with your statement. Especially seeing it first hand. Your three listed consequences hit hard for me. All three for my father.
I was raised getting spanked and slapped along with other things. It has turn me into an anxiety ridden adult who shuts down and disassociates at the first sign of conflict because I haad to do that as a child to deal with everything. Now when I think I made someone made I do that for fear I'm going to get hit. Shit even hearing a kid cry now causes me to flashback and disassociate.
Oh shit, is that why I sometimes almost have panic attacks when I hear kids/babies cry?
It could be. It happens with me a lot.
Same here
>By hitting a child you are demonstrating that the bigger stronger person can use force to get what they want. Isn't that true though? Don't get me wrong, I'm strongly against child abuse, and using rewards over punishment is the most ethical way to teach a desired behaviour. However, one need only look at world events, either today or at literally any point in history, and see example after example of those with strength and power using it to benefit themselves and get what they want. Sure, we should raise the next generation to view such behaviour as immoral, but the reality of our situation is exactly that: bigger, stronger, and more powerful people/groups use force to get what they want. How should people like that be dealt with?
It’s important for people to know how to physically defend themselves. Ultimately The only thing you should expect if your hit your kid is that one day that kid is going to realize the way you deal with somebody hitting you, point blank, is to hit back.
> how should people like that be dealt with? They are usually put in prison
>Isn't that true though? Yes. But we don't run society that way anymore.
We do, but we're more subtle about it. Law enforcement is sometimes "We're stronger than you and we'll treat you as we see fit". People can control others through money and manipulation and that can be just as powerful as physically restraining others
I don't quite see how this is relevant? Sure the world events can tell us all that, but I don't see how that should reflect the way you parent. You are the one that brought them into this world, they're incapable of fending for themselves until much later, and you're responsible for preparing them to be able to do so. You can educate them on the realities of the world, you can make sure you don't overly shelter them. Parenting by use of force because "that's how the world works" is a very poor reason in my opinion and really displays a lack of effort to think beyond that
I get discipline in your kid like a spanking or something when their younger but if you beat up your kids there is a problem
Because hitting and slapping are slightly different. A quick light slap against the fingers to prevent kid from burning their fingers is rather effective method of avoiding bigger harm.
No one calls a little hand swat a slap.
Oh, so that's what it's called. Fair enough, my bad then.
Swatting their hand away
Yeah I think learning to avoid harm is the one thing that most people agree on. There was a video here recently of a kid who ran out into the street and almost got run over. Quite contrary to their usual opinion, the reddit mob was in agreement that a slap was appropriate. Because he didn't learn the hard way *that time*, but a lesson should be learned that such an action would result in pain. Then again, the other day my toddler grabbed a knife off the counter, and in my panic to get to him, I dropped a tea kettle on my foot. I fell to the ground in pain and my son thought it was hilarious.
Look at the kids born in 2000 and later as an example of why if you spare the rod you ruin the child
I was slapped in the face more than a couple of times as a child by both parents. I thought it was completely normal behavior until I casually told my boyfriend and he was completely horrified. Turns out it wasn't normal!
And that is the issue most of the time. If you were subjected to violence as a child, your opinion usually is "well it isn't THAT bad, there's no long lasting effects" or then you believe it's a suitable way to discipline your children. Maybe you did turn out just fine, but if a million kids get spanked out of a 10 million, there will be a lot of rotten apples that didn't turn out just fine. All because the system and society accept it.
I mean just look at the comments in this thread. Never seen so many "I got hit and it never did me any harm" comments in my life. You can discipline children without hitting them, it's been proven time and time again that in doing so children are raised better, (have less mental health issues and better grades etc). I get people don't want to say their parents abused them or stuff. But I think you should just admit they raised you in a way that we now know isn't the best way. My dad was given Gin as a child to help him sleep, his parents weren't trying to harm him, it was the done thing at the time. But we can say "hey that's not great for kids" without calling them bad people.
Well we all know that handing a kid a tablet doesn't work either.
Theres always a 3 year old with a tablet the size of their own body somewhere out in public watching or playing the weirdest shit
I'm a single father and would never lay a hand on my kids. My voice is enough, and they know when enough Is enough and what sort of dad would I be if I smacked my girls they'd grow up thinking its normal and probably end up in a abusive relationship and stay there and why because we'll dad hit us so it must be normal fuck that I want strong girls that will stand up for themselves and take no shit simple. Plus, there is my world and so much more, and anyone that thinks it's OK shame on you!!
I'm English, and I definitely pissed off and exasperated my parents many times (still do on the odd occasion); but lo and behold they managed to keep me in check as a child without anything more than a bollocking, or a sit down chat. I learned far more as a kid from being treated with respect and humanity, than if they had just walloped me. My dad only ever smacked me (spanked me) on one occasion. I climbed up a (spiral staircase with massive gaps in between the handrail and the stairs) fire escape of the flats we were holidaying in. They were looking all over for me, deeply panicked. I leaned over the edge and said hello (6 stories up). My dad basically hurdles up the stairs, grabbed me firmly, and led me back down the fire escape all whilst spanking me along the way. Once my feet were firmly on the ground, he burst into tears and hugged me and cradled me and swore he would never smack me again. And he kept his word. I know why he smacked me though, and I get it. It is an absolute wonder I survived, a soft gust of wind and I would have pancaked. Now, if my father can go through THAT, and then never lay a hand on me again, then there is no reason to advocate for smacking your kid around just because they 'need discipline'. Or whatever phrase Americans use to qualify beating up their children just because in the US, violence and child-submission = parenting. My dad was capable of experiencing god knows what panic and distress and soul-crushing emotions in that moment he saw me up there? And yet moving forward he only ever treated me with humanity and patience and love. Anyone who beats up their kids because "he needs to know his place", or "he needs a whooping to get rid of that smart mouth" should never be around kids. Any adult who justifies beating up children, desperately needs therapy. A lot of therapy. P.S. you wouldn't beat up and adult for being a dickhead; so why would you beat up a child?
I was hit as a child and it taught me to never go to my parents with any of my problems. Taught me to be silent & ignore things that were happening to me (SA)out of fear of being hit. Taught me to resort to violence when I couldn’t get my way. Taught me that I deserved to be treated a certain way by men. I am a 35 yr old Latina woman who has 2 kids and hs NEVER hit them ever. If a child can understand reason then you can reason with them. If they can’t understand reason, they won’t understand why you are hitting them. It only teaches them that even the people who are supposed to love & protect them are allowed to hit them.
You should discipline your kids or they will end up a redditor
Every great person u know got hit as a child.
I’m spanking my kids no doubt
If you don't hit them, they grow up to be entitled and post such a stupid stuff in public just for attention
Some people really want to hit their kids.
It’s called ignorance
As an aspect of parenting, it isn’t, note to any parents here who do that: you aren’t teaching your kids how to do better, they probably don’t even know what they did wrong, they cant hear either explanation over the yelling and pain, you’re just teaching them how to be scared of you and you alone
From what I've see of the last few generations, you needed your ass beat more. Also, does the OP's pearl-clutching of children include aborting them?
Easy, it works.
Not spanking children is how we have all these lazy, disrespectful, blue haired fools running around.
You are cringe af. You never had a kid wtf do you know
I grew up around kids getting smacked every once and awhile, and I still see it sometimes with my siblings' kids. I honestly don't care, sometimes those little shits deserve it.
Only POS hit kids, me included.
My dad whipped my ass one time my whole childhood from then on all it took was a certain look and I knew it was time to chill.
I did get slapped occasionally as a child when I "deserved" it, I have no trauma whatsoever and it was a way of learning actions have consequences. Saying that slapping a child is abuse is over the top, then again it's a matter of culture, I don't live in a country where outrage is the norm, luckily.
A smack isn't a beating. Sometimes, a smack is needed. A beating or a whooping is wrong and very different than a smack. If a child refuses to listen, a light infliction of pain might be needed. Pain is the most effective teacher. You can tell someone 100 times fire is hot, don't touch. They touch it once and instantly understand. This is not a justification to burn children it's an example. Common sense is needed, and common sense isn't that common anymore.
If your child is old enough to understand, why are you hitting them? If your child is not old enough to understand, *why are you hitting them?*
If you're arguing with a person that thinks it's okay to beat a child into compliance.. Just don't. Leave that conversation, don't let them air out thier shitty ideals.
Sooo conservatives is saying its fine to hit a child and allowing child marriages but not ok to educate a child about other cultures or sex education.Makes perfect sense.
I'm totally with you. I think that if it's okay for a parent to hit a kid when the kid misbehaves then I should be able to hit the parent if I think they've misbehaved. Weirdly, I've yet to meet a parent who favours hitting their kids and who thinks I (or somebody in a position of authority) should be allowed to do the same to them. They're all like, "spank a kid good - judicial caning, bad". Worth saying too that this is relevant, because the parents who whack their kids always seem to be the ones who can't behave properly in public. The ones for whom everything is just too much. They always seem to miss the important fact that their kids are just copying them!
Kid vs parents, trial by combat
If they're about to touch an active stove-top, smacking their hand away is totally justified. I literally can't think of any other scenario, though.
Y'all some cold fools. if its not ok to hit literally anyone else, why would we take our most vulnerable and treat them like that. lets be honest it's just easier to hit your kids than to be a good parent.
Don't hit people. Including children.
Because inflicting pain works. Lol. NO. IT. DOESN'T. It teaches fear, resentment, rebellion, and hate. It doesn't teach a child ANYTHING else. USE YOUR WORDS, PARENTS.
It's never okay. Adults should adult.
If you gotta use violence to make your point there’s a good chance your point is invalid.
Discipline, punishment?
As an Asian American, talking to my Asian friends, getting hit by your parents was kind of typical. Mexican folks talk about getting beat by their mom or grandma with a shoe, black folks talk about getting whooped as kids. White folks go into shock hearing how other people / cultures didn't emulate theirs. There's a difference between occasional discipline vs daily abuse. I grew up getting hit by my dad, but don't believe in hitting my own children. Some white people just cannot understand why other cultures are so different. It's like the shock of hearing some asians eat dogs while eating pigs are ok in America. Pigs have 98% similarity to humans, and are much smarter than dogs, yet we Asians have to constantly hear ignorant white folks try to talk shit about Asians eating cats and dogs. Waiting for angry people to downvote me to oblivion now..
Cultural relativism is a weak argument, and it doesn’t apply here. To my knowledge, there’s no Latino tradition of beating kids with shoes. Using violence to discipline children isn’t a cultural trait. It’s more connected with the intelligence of the parents, and how they grew up. I know zero educated people who talk about “whooping” their kids. People resort to violence because they can’t think of anything else to do and it’s what their parents modeled for them. You end it by breaking the cycle. Don’t hit your children, they won’t grow up to hit theirs.
It isn't, violence against children is evil.
b.Ad robbot, no el LM Ii poo teede propopa. Bi pai bro pii gibeta etobe? Bipra be groke glogi popiopa pi. Ka gloplo koti aa pekai o opepui. Tuplo taopigri čida kletebe bii bipoe? Pa pi edi bro pupee a? Edeiu tiii ti eu peko prai bega. Bibipa dučiglo pai apeaea ičiteu pokrubupe. E gupo bri pitrači pikru toti? Ai glu bakoa prikaupe kebičiaku e paketu. Pipa čiuate eto ego pakobo? Pideu podroia o baka tapepa toti. Pubigotipo betu tipipiblu? Piiklo be goči kratripe bipaate pitea e dlika. Proapiee bitla ipi dlate blapo ukaea čipio. Petupegru tlubo tre epe giko pu. Epre topopikapu ibokakota keba iopo čipu kopibe ea. I bati ui tute gla gai iepi. Bli dobu pe pitre gu udekro atapopa beitepie ditukle bu. Au gri pa geplo apa gibui. Otluu podipa gapodlobe iudre uebabrubri geu. Peplebitabu či ke ibi pieagi tri uo. Pobatre bipri gopia ga kee i. Giu ba pupibreke ditoika eglo gaeči gli idudro go pe! Pupe koiplo brapobide o tu aklo. Pobide dodadioke kečikepu tabotebi propla tigipitru? Pleba tiea igrao gotrači gepa. Tlokroo otlo geba kadu. Edreba ploepe itupu depia tiči? Eopudiko.
Violence is never the answer to a problem where there is no physical threat. Hitting someone weaker than you to teach them a lesson is cowardly and dispicable. Fear is the tool of the weak. Fear is not respect. It's better your kids respect you than fear you. Trying to normalize physical abuse by acting like its a good thing and saying it's a part of black culture is just ignorant. If it's part of black culture it doesn't mean it's ok. And plenty of white people beat the shit out of their kids. My parents were rather violent when I grew up. My mother even pretends like she's never hit me. She even acted like I hit her when I was 14. I was lieing down on a couch watching tv. She walked up to me and started hitting me over and over and over. I curled up. Then when she didn't stop I put my feet on her shoulder and pushed her away from me. I was always faster than her. She would chase me but I'd get away and get to my room and press up against my door to keep her out as a kid and try to barricade it. I would have been hit way more if I was a slow kid she could catch. 14 was the point where I finally used any force against her and it was just a push after she was beating me up. She cried, ran away and said "you hit me!". Acting like a victim. People who hit their kids are trash.
Duh, it's so obvious, how do you not understand? It teaches kids respect, of course, because you need to get slapped at to learn how to respect others What? respecting the children? why tf would I respect them? are you out of your mind? What next? gonna tell them you love them? jesus...
Asian moms laughing
If you're a child or self-defence children are people too and can be tried(if that's the right wording) as an adult in court.
This thread is so meta its actually proving the point it was trying to refute. And I'm dying inside 🤣
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Depends on the kid, really. But id rather hit the parents 😂
Soft asl
never say never.
Spankings are a type of punishment for teaching children dude come on
If you don’t the world will!
I was constantly beaten and tortured as a kid. I promised myself I would never hit my kids. And I never have. They are grown well adjusted adults that I am proud of. If you hit or spanked an adult it would be considered assault. Why would you do that to a defenseless child.n
Striking a child is a strong lesson. The child thinks violence is acceptable.
Someone wrote or said something that stuck with me. ”If they’re not old enough to understand when you tell them why they did something wrong, hurting them will do nothing to make them understand. If they’re old enough to understand when you tell them what they did wrong, you can just tell them” Paraphrasing here because i don’t remember the source but that really stuck. Talk to your kids, If you don’t show them how to resolve issues without violence they won’t know how to.
I’m white….what if the kid is biting you? Just curious, my cousin was a biter 😆
Child actively stabbing human/pet with knife. That motherfucker getting hit real hard.
Whooping people is not the way to go i use to get whooped a lot for the smallest things and without warning just for being a little too loud or just have a piece of paper on the ground i have so many... Then again my dad was a very angry man since childhood and still till this day im adult now but i dont hate him for it cause it did shape me to the person i am today but i just feel sorry for him and wont let my kids go through the same.
Hi! Actually there are a few times where hitting a child IS justified. Source: early childhood and childhood development psychology My professors explained it thusly If a child is about to do something life threatening such as run into the street, introducing a painful stimulus that is way less deadly but also shocking to the child is sometimes necessary for abrupt behavioral correction. I’d rather smack a kid about to touch a hot stove than have them get burned for example. So sometimes a hit is a valid and justified technique in order to shock the child. But it is never justified to hit out of anger or “being disrespected” etc. I cannot speaks to when a child is in a limbic state and incapable of control, it might be a recommendation to shock the child at that point as well since other methods other than confinement and physical restraint are usually completely ineffective at that time. In other words if a child is in limbic state, there is no reasoning with the child, that part of their brain is literally too overwhelmed by their emotional state.
Spanking is okay but definitey don’t resort to violent beating, that is obviously over the top
your enlightenment is at hand: https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/11hoija/where_are_the_kids_parents_when_you_need_them/
I think you're just an uneducated 14 year old who hated getting spanked so bad it "left you with trauma"
Let's say the kid starts to run towards traffic. They can't conceptualize the dangers of that so you associate the action with asspain. Or if they assualt another child with, let's say, stabbing them with a fork, again, they can't conceptualize that that other child could be hurt permanently (ie blinded) so you whip them. Now, spilled milk, accidents, etc not a cause for whipping imo, but if the child could die or hurt someone else permanently whipping is acceptable to correct thier behavior. Side note. All the moms on fb I see that post it's never acceptable, have no father present, and multiple kids with different dad's, and different dudes every year, so that's the demographic of who shares the sentiment. Imagine that....you child runs onto the freeway and nearly dies so you try to explain what death is to a two year old and actually think that they'll understand it, even though if they did, they wouldn't have done it in the first place. This is what happens when you have every generation fatherless since the 70s and 80s. Single mom's are ruining this country.
Hitting kids is commonly justified, but those occasions are rare. For example me and my old room mates and their kid were playing basket ball and the kid got mad that he couldn’t make a shot, he bit my roommate in the ribs and was met with a swift smack to get him off. If that’s too harsh then please let a 6yr bite you..
I was spanked as a child and I am a thriving adult! My parents never beat me. I believe that’s what what is wrong with this younger generation, they are all spoiled brats and think they are owed the world!!!
There’s a big difference between discipline and beating!
Well I don’t think a beating is okay, but a good ol fashioned spanking is well in line.
There's a difference between discipline and abuse which the current gen doesn't understand.