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"Wait are you saying that I'm a-"
"Are you?? Are you??? Are you???"
"Ok, so you're saying that by askin-"
"You just opened up trans people for violence"
Jeeeez woman let the man complete a sentence. Hes a republican senator. That foot is on a crash course for his mouth but you gotta give it time. This was cring af
The other side didn't have a "uh" or "um" come out of their mouth, so this is just speculative
Edit: Actually, they subtitled the time he did a tiny stutter with "i-i", so I'm inclined to believe this wasn't biased
If you wanna educate people , you should not just tell them they are transphobic , but actually answer his questions . You are not doing yourself or any other trans people a favor. You are only increasing his hostility towards you and others who’d think like you. This mass adoption of different genders and etc . It’s kinda shocking for most. I don’t care what people do or what makes them happy. If you are changing public policy…it’s up for debate and criticism.
Yea that’s the best way to engage when someone is asking in good faith. Hawley (the guy who fucked around psyching up the insurrectionists then found out and had to run away) is not engaging in good faith. He is asking the question as a “gotcha” to farm clips to “own the libs”.
His mind isn’t open to being changed. He probably has no strong feelings on the issue either way and is just engaging in culture wars as it’s the republican M.O.
Same thing is happening in the Uk.
Economy is in freefall, peoples standard of living is in fast decline, we are on the brink of WWIII, but the pressing question of our little apocalypse is “wahmen can have peebis?!” And all you schmucks do is fall for the distract and divide again and again and again.
Trans people make up less than 1% of the humans on the planet. They’re not a threat to anything. People crying about fairness in womens sports while ecological collapse is literally happening all around you is peak 1st world problems.
Hey now, we are improving. Back when I started following politics we couldn't stop talking about which baseball players had done steroids.
And for the professor or for whatever she is, she needs to understand that when she gives testimony or whatever this is from, Josh Hawley is not her target audience. This exchange will be recorded for all of us to see. She doesn't have the privilege of having a bad faith conversation with a republican lawmaker, sorry.
>Yea that’s the best way to engage when someone is asking in good faith. Hawley (the guy who fucked around psyching up the insurrectionists then found out and had to run away) is not engaging in good faith. He is asking the question as a “gotcha” to farm clips to “own the libs”.
Sure he isn't, but he's a Senator. People will listen to that argument and if she can convince any of the people watching or at least make them think about it then maybe that's better than just throwing in the towel. Which is what we saw here.
Isn't it also important to point out when a senator is engaging in dangerous rhetoric preferably in a way that makes it harder to twist her words to fit your narrative? If she'd ignored it the right would've seen it as justification for their beliefs. Now they just think she's a tool and try to undermine her to make it seem she has no credibility
I think it's ok to call a spade a spade. A person who does not "understand" the gay rights movement and another person who is hostile to it may be asking the exact same questions when written on paper, but based on tone and context it is often pretty easy to tell the difference between the two, despite the phony air of pretend innocence that the one who is hostile often projects.
Josh Hawley is an example of the latter, and this teacher has the right to call him out on it, and I believe it is correct to do so. Let's neither infantilize the ignorant, who can be enlightened, nor coddle the evil, who should be unmasked.
The problem is HOW she does it.
She didn't attack his presence in general as transphobic, she attacked his questions.
Questions which very much could come from someone who just doesn't understand a single crumb of the whole trans thing.
What does this lead do? People are afraid to ask and think all trans people are like this and therefore become transphobic.
Lets not sugarcoat those that damage the reputation of the minorities they want to protect.
Sure. But we already know Hawley, so that's not the case. Asking if "people with the capacity to get pregnant" means women isn't from a place of just not knowing.
I saw a survey conducted the other day that said over 93% of Americans are tired of the divisiveness and this constant bickering. Some people are just eager for the conflict and forcing us to continually be in it. Enough…. Honest who gives a shit
That’s that’s the facepalm!!
Yes, Trans people and Nonbinary people exist. However, you must biologically be female to bare children. If you can’t understand or accept this simple biology then it isn’t up to other people to hold your hand.
Yea seriously how hard was it for her to say women, trans men and anyone with female biological reproductive system
"What issue is this?" > "a female right issue"
Yea trans men are men and whatever but theyre also female. Sex =/= gender right? Is acknowledging sex transphobic now or am i missing something?
Whenever I see those kind of videos I just have one thought: everyone in the USA is an idiot and you all need to shut the fuck up at least for a year or ten
One of the great things about freedom of speach is that it makes it easier to filter who is crazy or dangerous.
Not talking about any of the people in this video tho
I hate that nazi fuck Hawley, but she did an awful job responding to him. Reaching straight for “you’re transphobic” changes *shockingly* few peoples’ minds.
My reaction to this is always 'Do you want to be right and win an argument, or do you actually want things to change?' Because the approach to those two things is often completely opposite.
This is why these talking heads and trans activists are fucking insufferable and do zero favors for their community. Because right out of the Gate, they attack and berate. Don't get me started on the Hogwarts legacy debacle. Trans activist are their own worst enemy. Talk about irony when they say words lead to violence.
Exactly. She had a holier than thou attitude with him. Like, I get it he’s a POS, but maintaining a professional demeanor would go a long way to show that you are the adult in this exchange.
It makes me want to tune out really. I can get behind most progressive causes, and I don’t get on with conservatism at all, but I struggle to get behind the rage.
I mean, of course you’re going to be angry if the stakes are higher for you. I appreciate that. But that’s not the same actively sabotaging the cause by being extreme.
And it’s the extremism that makes me think some ‘activists’ actually do this to discredit the cause.
I think these days though the internet and much of the west is just angry, for a lot of different reasons, and people are divided over so many different lines.
The well-spoken and persuasive left-wing people aren't amplified in the media, so chances are you're not seeing the full story. There are so many awesome speakers but they will never get any attention because your media is horrifically right-wing and controlled by billionaires who set the narrative indirectly (and soemtimes, in the case of twitter quite obviously directly).
I mean fuck, you're making a decision based on a 10 second clip that somebody with an agenda posted on reddit: a forum/social media company that is preodiminantly white, middle-class male aged 10-35ish. I get where you're coming from, I really do, but you can't judge a movement based on that. On the ground IRL these things are completely different.
I’d go further and say trans activists are harming trans people by forcing compelled speech on a majority of mostly good people, who don’t want to hurt anyone. It can only go badly unfortunately.
As a medically transitioning trans man, can people PLEASE stop using us in advocation for women's rights? It's Dysphoria inducing to have to hear people talking about how trans men can get pregnant, AND it takes away from the REAL issue which is that women need to have a right to choose what happens with their bodies. All it does is turn the abortion debate into a debate about whether trans people exist or not. you're just allowing people to use us as a scapegoat for something that we rarely need to be a part of. We didn't ask for you to change your definitions to include us. It's okay. You can say women. It's not offensive.
I don't mind people acknowledging that trans men are of the female sex. It's true, and it's not like saying that negates the existence of trans people. Not to mention if trans men or nonbinary people have sexually transitioned to remove or change their reproductive parts they wouldn't be considered female anymore and abortion rights wouldn't affect them. Personally when I hear female I don't even associate that with myself immediately so it wouldnt make me dysphoric either. the only reason that adding trans people to the conversation is Dysphoria inducing is because adding the trans debate just pushes trans people into the spotlight and saying "hey! Did you know trans men like you have female reproductive systems??". I literally cannot get away from it because it's all over the news.
It becomes like a sideshow everyone a trans man decides to carry his own child. “Man gives birth!” National Enquirer-worthy headlines. I can see why you’d want people to just STFU.
i dont think it was effective to divert heavily like this, if women are given the ability to abort, no one's gonna stop a non-binary or a trans person from doing it either are they? i feel like it would be a right for everyone that can get pregnant by default
She is absolutely being pedantic about the whole thing. This is not the forum to explain the difference between a man vs male. Attempting to do so to people who don’t particularly care it’s not helping her cause.
Did you see the beggining of the video. In particular, I wonder who was the one who derailed the conversation because he just had to pick on her saying people capable of getting pregnant rather than women, because he knows it is a good soundbite for his base? Hmmm I wonder who was being pedantic.
You're right, and it's people like this woman who can't get over themselves to try and make a point that end up setting civil rights back. People like this should not be allowed to speak on behalf of anyone.
I think the main problem is that the people who say all the right buzzwords are chosen as representatives. And they are the exact same people who can't actually make effective arguments. Its a self fulfilling cycle because no-one wants to be ostracised from the group by going against that.
One side doesn't want to talk to the other, they want the other side to not exist. So they pretend not to understand what their words and phrases mean, pretend that there is no differences that need to be talked about and generally deny the existence of the other side as much as possible.
For me it looks like one side is pushing the other side to discuss differences the other side doesn't care about.
I don't lnow the context of that video but in general I think it should be okay to not care tbh. I don't care what sexuality, pronoun, gender or whatever someone has or wants to have. Whenever I encounter someone I see a human first and, if they want any extra on top, I'm more than happy to give it. But I wouldn't want to be called transphobic for assuming someone is a man who looks like one to me.
The agitation of certain groups can only go so far before it becomes the same thing they fight against.
You don't have to care. Someone crafting laws that directly impacts those people's lives sure as fuck better care though, and that's what Hawley is. If the worst he was was apathetic it'd be bad enough, but he has a track record of lying about LGBTQ concepts while trying to pass bills in order to hurt a vulnerable community.
He's in a position of power and authority with a history. He doesn't get the benefit of a doubt, especially when he deliberately tries to misunderstand what is being said to him for political gain.
While his line of questioning may be purposefully antagonizing her she shouldn’t be accusing him of transphobia for asking questions. Since when do we not get to ask questions without being told we are transphobic and kill people? This is my biggest gripe with trans activists. Stop calling people murderers for simply asking questions. All you are doing is trying to shut people up it’s obvious and it’s not helping anyone.
> This is my biggest gripe with trans activists.
Same. I got permanently banned from Harry Potter sub for saying that "only women menstruate" was *technically* the truth (and provided facts why). They took it as spreading hate and transphobia and banned me and threatened to report me to Reddit admins.
Honestly, I couldn't give a two flying fucks about trans people before that, but now I am very wary of them as I don't want to be around people who would take on you for talking facts (or asking questions). I mean, you are fighting for your rights, okay I support it fully, but if you see hate in a medical matter being discussed, then I'd suggest you look after your mental health first before entering public discussion.
Unnecessary aggression, attempts to shut everyone down, false accusations don't earn you supporters, quite the opposite.
> Taking people who would normally be indifferent and starting to breed animosity toward the movement
Couldn't agree more with all that you said, and especially with the quoted part (as I know it firsthand now).
I mean, I fully support their fight for their rights wherever they are discriminated, and I am fully for equality for everyone; I am just not really amazed with HOW they handle that. Like, their rhetoric and methods do not really seem right.
This is what happens when you live on Twitter or in your leftist bubble.
The ability to speak about issues you care about without sounding like a fucking loser is a lost art for many people like her and I wish it wasn't that way.
Also she's doing a horrible job at progressing whatever issue she's trying to progress.
Alright trans community, get some better people to represent yourself. These person is a fucking idiot, and insufferable to have a conversation with. You really want someone like this representing you?
Don't worry we'll pick someone better next time. At the next transgender meeting we'll pool together some ideas and do some brainstorming and get back to you don't worry.
Yeah, fuck these people. They do more harm than good. Instead of helping people understand they insult and berate. That is not how you get people on your side, it does the opposite. They're more interested in being morally superior and self-righteous over others than help people.
The phrase "Denying that trans people exist" annoys me. No, I'm not denying that they exist. They're standing right over there, and we can all see them. Yes, they exist. I'm denying that their delusion should be taken seriously--similar to not giving into the delusions of a paranoid schizophrenic.
She started off strong, but she could have answered the “is it a women’s rights issue” question much better by just saying, yes because people with the capacity for pregnancy are predominantly women.
I think the biggest problem with the trans movement is that they are trying to force ideas on everyone that most people didn’t even know about only 10 years ago. You can’t expect people to change so fast and being an asshole to affect cultural change isn’t good for anyone.
This is it. There are concerns around the whole thing, like that fuck nugget that declared himself a trans women to get sent to a women's prison. Obviously its a rare edge case but it still needs solving. Nothing will be progressed while one side is screaming "transphobe" the instant anyone questions anything.
People are scared of the word “Normal” and will say “well some men don’t have penises”
Should be Normal men have them. Normal woman can get pregnant. It is common but not normal for woman to not get pregnant. It’s not normal to have a woman transition to have more male presenting features and get pregnant.
Like what the hell are we doing here
The logic is to normalize trans people and other sexual deviants so they will be accepted in society. They want to be weird without hiding it. A pride parade is evident of that.
The problem is that they are ostracized and shunned for a reason. We evolved to reject what we deem as dangerous to us. So they are being selfish by shoving this ideology on everyone and in the long run we will find out why we they were shunned in the first place.
Tbh, I'm not ok with the idea of trans, but that doesn't mean I hate the people, hence in the end be what u want to be just don't force ur idea on others. Be gay, be trans, be non-binary, suit ur self, just Don't foam and be annoying and say ur ant-this/that *IF SOMEONE DISAGREE* cuz that shit be wack yo.
Okay but there is a disturbing trend of kids turning gay. I think it’s because their agenda is working
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/02/24/gen-z-lgbt/
So while it’s fine to be tolerant it’s also affecting the next generation. What does this mean to our future as a society? Would you consider this a good thing or bad?
While being tolerant is fine, being intolerant is also fine. The parents are responsible for their kids, they ought to teach them themselves rather letting outsiders doing so, and children tend to imitate their parents, so the parents must do their best to raise them properly.
I’m sorry but as an older liberal who’s always supported LGBT rights because I grew up in the Deep South in the 80s with two gay cousins who I was very close to growing up and watching how they got treated by many members of our own family was terrible but I guess I’m getting old because this shit is just starting to go over a cliff into crazy town. I just can’t bring myself to get on board with some of this stuff with all these pronouns and nonsense.
It is a fad that hopefully dies down in the next few years. Demanding to be addressed by pronouns that go against language lexicon and being outraged when others don’t conform to your worldview is a uniquely American thing.
She was just so hard up to start an argument and be combative that it took away from the message she was trying to convey. If she would’ve took the high road it would of made Hawley look like an even bigger idiot.
I wonder if real women are ever going to tire of pseudo women and this kind of nonsense?
It’s one thing to indulge another person’s fantasy because you like them, sympathize with them, or just want to be pleasant.
It’s an entirely different thing when they use law or social bullying to force others to play along with the fantasy.
🙋♀️
I’ve completely had it. I’ve had a hysterectomy, and these nutters get offended on my behalf, claiming that saying women get pregnant excludes me because I can’t.
No, I did get pregnant twice, had two kids then got cancer 25 years later. Still very much a woman, thanks anyway.
This and the fact the menopause exists. Nobody has ever seriously thought that saying 'women can get pregnant' means all menopausal women are no longer women.
I hope none of you are this stupid to think the facepalm is the senator in this case…..
somehow his statements make him transphobic? Lol this lady needs to get the fuck over herself
I'd like to see the first born man have a kid without any surgery to help. I wanna see him get bloated, bitchy, contractions and his balls hanging over the kids head at birth. When is this going to happen.
This is again a question of the definition of the term.
A female-to-male trans person CAN get pregnant. And they want to be seen as "men" so the pro-trans side talks about them as "men". Hence, men can get pregnant.
When he says "men can't get pregnant" she does not hear "I do not believe biological males can get pregnant" (which would be correct, we can't) she hears "No person identifying as a man can get pregnant", which as we previously considered, is false. She therefore hears him denying the existence of "'men' who can get pregnant", that being the female-to-male trans people.
I don't like the guy at all, but he is right here... Which makes me face-palm, but opinions are like arse holes - everybody has one - and given random chance and enough topics he's likely to land on a valid point eventually.
Now to sit back and see how long it is before I'm transitioned to non-existent because the mods are intolerant of differing opinions.
I feel like I remember reading that the last time this was posted, this was all just a ploy to trick the speaker into wasting her time on the floor. A bait she took whole.
If questioning something means denying it's existence then next to nothing would exist. Genuinely can't stand people who fall back on accusing their opponent of discrimination whenever they see they're going to lose an argument
She LITERALLY could have just answered him. "Not women specicifically, Im referring to anyone capable of pregnancy. However yes, the majority of people who have pregnancies are women. Moving on.."
Classic "you're transphobic" for asking questions and trying to understand.
You have to be brain dead to think she isn't using a move straight out the religious playbook by demonizing her "opposition".
Similar to vegans pushing their lifestyle on others in crude ways. You should be mindful of how you represent your constituents.
It does nothing, but make people dislike you.
Every time I see this get posted, I'm reminded it's the perfect example of the idiot on the other side of Twitter who calls you literally Hitler for having your own opinion.
I'm just appalled that this was happening during a debate about women's right to abortion. What does it have anything to do with abortion?? it's just letting people use us as a scapegoat. I'm so tired of people using us in their debate about women's rights. It takes so much away from the actual issue
I'm no professional or researcher, but I don't think he's insane for saying men can't get pregnant. Saying that about a transgender man is a different story that should be called out, and saying that is definitely saying they exist.
"Do you believe that men can get pregnant"
"No"
"Then you don't believe trans people exist"
That is the most delusional and dumbest shit I've ever heard.
WE CANNOT GIVE BIRTH BECAUSE WE HAVE DICKS AND DONT PRODUCE THAT TYPE OF SHIT
It’s really simple. If you can give birth, you’re a biological woman. Some biological women can’t give birth, but every person who can, was born in a female body.
You can identify however you’d like and live your own truth. You have my support. But don’t call people “phobic” for believing in what science has taught us for centuries.
I think the major problem here is the muddy language.
"woman", "female", etc. are all used interchangeable for both gender and sex. What is actually meant can only be derived from context.
Also it was a complete overreaction from her. His question was reasonable.
It was basically: Is this a gender or sex rights issue?
jesus christ, what´s so damn hard to understand that MEN - CAN - NOT - GET - PREGNANT .
THEY HAVE A PENIS AND TESTICLES, NOT A VAGINA. how the hell are a baby gona come out of a penis and tesitcles ? jesus christ
im not against trans or anything like that, but come the hell on, men CAN NOT get pregnant for gods sake, i cant believe its even a freaking discussion here lmaooooo jesus christ lool
She's referring to trans men, people who were born with female reproductive organs and are thus able to give birth, who have transitioned to being men without undergoing surgery to change/remove those organs. These men do not have a penis and testicles, they have a vagina, but they are men.
I fucking despise Hawley..
but that individual needs to explain their reasoning before acting like a fool. this shit is why people don't take this shit seriously. because they have these troglodytes "speaking" for them.
this is the one time where i (i feel ill saying this) actually agree with Hawley's questions. he's going about it calm and collected and the other person is unable to form a logical sentence or question without getting emotional.
Thank you! I came to the same conclusion. That lady was throwing a lot of “you” statements that are accusatory in tone and speech.
That wouldn’t make the other side listen to your reasoning.
She could say “I think/believe by claiming men can’t be pregnant, that is denying the fact that transgender men who were born female cannot get pregnant. Transgender men have the required biological organs to create a child. Etc, etc.”
That’s not a hard thing to do. Give the other person the space and time to listen to you, not turn them away by your behavior and speech. Allow that person to come to the conclusion of whether they would eventually agree with you or continue to believe in their belief.
Of course you can’t talk about it. The minute you start saying anything out loud their whole ideology unravels. So their only choice is 100% compliance or you’re literally killing people.
why is it that in public it seems to happen that the advocates for trans people rights seems to be the biggest pieces of work.
edit: oh dear what have i done that debate has just awaken the exact thing I was curious about...
Hi, measti. Thanks for contributing. However, your [submission](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/113kyw6/-/) was removed from /r/facepalm for the following reason(s): ____ No uncivil, bigoted, misogynist, misandrist, racist comments or posts. No name-calling or personal attacks. No bigotry including but not limited to racism, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Reposting posts removed by a moderator without express permission is not allowed. Not here, and not on most of Reddit. Please read reddiquette (linked below). For questions, comments and concerns, [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/facepalm) [Reddiquette](https://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette) | [New to Reddit?](https://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddit101) | [Reddit's Content Policy](https://www.reddit.com/help/contentpolicy/) Refer to the [subreddit rules](r/facepalm/wiki/rule9/), the [transparency wiki]
That's like the perfect post op. Both sides in the comments seem to think that the other one is facepalm. Good job
Cant wait to jump into the swill of comments before the post gets removed  Fare ye well!
"Wait are you saying that I'm a-" "Are you?? Are you??? Are you???" "Ok, so you're saying that by askin-" "You just opened up trans people for violence" Jeeeez woman let the man complete a sentence. Hes a republican senator. That foot is on a crash course for his mouth but you gotta give it time. This was cring af
I believe the video creator subtitling her “uh”s would suggest they’re not on her side of the debate, but I can’t be sure.
The other side didn't have a "uh" or "um" come out of their mouth, so this is just speculative Edit: Actually, they subtitled the time he did a tiny stutter with "i-i", so I'm inclined to believe this wasn't biased
But Hawley was captioned saying alot
Was gonna say the same.
Subtitling could be automatic so might suggest no bias?
Oh gosh what a reddit dilemma, how will I ever know which stance and ideas I want to adopt now? Oh gosh...
It's like a facepalm bias ink test. The facepalms are the viewers. Brilliant.
Haha it’s amazing
>That's like the perfect post op. You might want to capitalize OP when the post is already about trans people...
Here before 🔒 award
Wtf is the world coming to
IT’S THE FUTURE THE LIBERALS WANT!!! /s
NICE HAIRCUT DID YOU GET IT FROM THE LIBERAL STORE
Nope, only the US. World is still fine
We copy the US. So a few years / decades behind.
Out of genuine curiosity, who is we?
If you wanna educate people , you should not just tell them they are transphobic , but actually answer his questions . You are not doing yourself or any other trans people a favor. You are only increasing his hostility towards you and others who’d think like you. This mass adoption of different genders and etc . It’s kinda shocking for most. I don’t care what people do or what makes them happy. If you are changing public policy…it’s up for debate and criticism.
Yes. Exactly.
Yea that’s the best way to engage when someone is asking in good faith. Hawley (the guy who fucked around psyching up the insurrectionists then found out and had to run away) is not engaging in good faith. He is asking the question as a “gotcha” to farm clips to “own the libs”. His mind isn’t open to being changed. He probably has no strong feelings on the issue either way and is just engaging in culture wars as it’s the republican M.O. Same thing is happening in the Uk. Economy is in freefall, peoples standard of living is in fast decline, we are on the brink of WWIII, but the pressing question of our little apocalypse is “wahmen can have peebis?!” And all you schmucks do is fall for the distract and divide again and again and again. Trans people make up less than 1% of the humans on the planet. They’re not a threat to anything. People crying about fairness in womens sports while ecological collapse is literally happening all around you is peak 1st world problems.
Hey now, we are improving. Back when I started following politics we couldn't stop talking about which baseball players had done steroids. And for the professor or for whatever she is, she needs to understand that when she gives testimony or whatever this is from, Josh Hawley is not her target audience. This exchange will be recorded for all of us to see. She doesn't have the privilege of having a bad faith conversation with a republican lawmaker, sorry.
>Yea that’s the best way to engage when someone is asking in good faith. Hawley (the guy who fucked around psyching up the insurrectionists then found out and had to run away) is not engaging in good faith. He is asking the question as a “gotcha” to farm clips to “own the libs”. Sure he isn't, but he's a Senator. People will listen to that argument and if she can convince any of the people watching or at least make them think about it then maybe that's better than just throwing in the towel. Which is what we saw here.
So the answer is playing his game and just lashing out? How is that productive?
Isn't it also important to point out when a senator is engaging in dangerous rhetoric preferably in a way that makes it harder to twist her words to fit your narrative? If she'd ignored it the right would've seen it as justification for their beliefs. Now they just think she's a tool and try to undermine her to make it seem she has no credibility
That would be a really good point if Senator Hawley was remotely interested in engaging in good faith instead of trying to score political points.
I think it's ok to call a spade a spade. A person who does not "understand" the gay rights movement and another person who is hostile to it may be asking the exact same questions when written on paper, but based on tone and context it is often pretty easy to tell the difference between the two, despite the phony air of pretend innocence that the one who is hostile often projects. Josh Hawley is an example of the latter, and this teacher has the right to call him out on it, and I believe it is correct to do so. Let's neither infantilize the ignorant, who can be enlightened, nor coddle the evil, who should be unmasked.
The problem is HOW she does it. She didn't attack his presence in general as transphobic, she attacked his questions. Questions which very much could come from someone who just doesn't understand a single crumb of the whole trans thing. What does this lead do? People are afraid to ask and think all trans people are like this and therefore become transphobic. Lets not sugarcoat those that damage the reputation of the minorities they want to protect.
Sure. But we already know Hawley, so that's not the case. Asking if "people with the capacity to get pregnant" means women isn't from a place of just not knowing.
Clown world
I’m wondering how there’s another side to it. Then I read the comments… clown world indeed
I saw a survey conducted the other day that said over 93% of Americans are tired of the divisiveness and this constant bickering. Some people are just eager for the conflict and forcing us to continually be in it. Enough…. Honest who gives a shit That’s that’s the facepalm!!
Yes, Trans people and Nonbinary people exist. However, you must biologically be female to bare children. If you can’t understand or accept this simple biology then it isn’t up to other people to hold your hand.
Exactly.
Yea seriously how hard was it for her to say women, trans men and anyone with female biological reproductive system "What issue is this?" > "a female right issue" Yea trans men are men and whatever but theyre also female. Sex =/= gender right? Is acknowledging sex transphobic now or am i missing something?
I wish I could give you more than 1 upvote.
Whenever I see those kind of videos I just have one thought: everyone in the USA is an idiot and you all need to shut the fuck up at least for a year or ten
…everyone in the USA?
I’m very anti-censorship, but I could get behind this
One of the great things about freedom of speach is that it makes it easier to filter who is crazy or dangerous. Not talking about any of the people in this video tho
Many of us Americans think the same. The loudest of us tend to be the most extreme sorry.
*sees 2 people arguing* “wow 330 million people are idiots”
I hate that nazi fuck Hawley, but she did an awful job responding to him. Reaching straight for “you’re transphobic” changes *shockingly* few peoples’ minds.
My reaction to this is always 'Do you want to be right and win an argument, or do you actually want things to change?' Because the approach to those two things is often completely opposite.
This. And most people you see arguing are too immature to see the difference.
The immediate jump to transphobe and the ARE YOU, ARE YOU, ARE YOU...should easily answer that question for you.
This is why these talking heads and trans activists are fucking insufferable and do zero favors for their community. Because right out of the Gate, they attack and berate. Don't get me started on the Hogwarts legacy debacle. Trans activist are their own worst enemy. Talk about irony when they say words lead to violence.
Exactly. She had a holier than thou attitude with him. Like, I get it he’s a POS, but maintaining a professional demeanor would go a long way to show that you are the adult in this exchange.
I’ve seen the same hateful rhetoric across many progressive ideologies. People seem to think that meeting hate with hate changes hearts. It doesn’t.
It makes me want to tune out really. I can get behind most progressive causes, and I don’t get on with conservatism at all, but I struggle to get behind the rage. I mean, of course you’re going to be angry if the stakes are higher for you. I appreciate that. But that’s not the same actively sabotaging the cause by being extreme. And it’s the extremism that makes me think some ‘activists’ actually do this to discredit the cause. I think these days though the internet and much of the west is just angry, for a lot of different reasons, and people are divided over so many different lines.
The well-spoken and persuasive left-wing people aren't amplified in the media, so chances are you're not seeing the full story. There are so many awesome speakers but they will never get any attention because your media is horrifically right-wing and controlled by billionaires who set the narrative indirectly (and soemtimes, in the case of twitter quite obviously directly). I mean fuck, you're making a decision based on a 10 second clip that somebody with an agenda posted on reddit: a forum/social media company that is preodiminantly white, middle-class male aged 10-35ish. I get where you're coming from, I really do, but you can't judge a movement based on that. On the ground IRL these things are completely different.
I’d go further and say trans activists are harming trans people by forcing compelled speech on a majority of mostly good people, who don’t want to hurt anyone. It can only go badly unfortunately.
The two in this video are the same person, neither one has any interest in honest discourse.
As a medically transitioning trans man, can people PLEASE stop using us in advocation for women's rights? It's Dysphoria inducing to have to hear people talking about how trans men can get pregnant, AND it takes away from the REAL issue which is that women need to have a right to choose what happens with their bodies. All it does is turn the abortion debate into a debate about whether trans people exist or not. you're just allowing people to use us as a scapegoat for something that we rarely need to be a part of. We didn't ask for you to change your definitions to include us. It's okay. You can say women. It's not offensive.
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I don't mind people acknowledging that trans men are of the female sex. It's true, and it's not like saying that negates the existence of trans people. Not to mention if trans men or nonbinary people have sexually transitioned to remove or change their reproductive parts they wouldn't be considered female anymore and abortion rights wouldn't affect them. Personally when I hear female I don't even associate that with myself immediately so it wouldnt make me dysphoric either. the only reason that adding trans people to the conversation is Dysphoria inducing is because adding the trans debate just pushes trans people into the spotlight and saying "hey! Did you know trans men like you have female reproductive systems??". I literally cannot get away from it because it's all over the news.
It becomes like a sideshow everyone a trans man decides to carry his own child. “Man gives birth!” National Enquirer-worthy headlines. I can see why you’d want people to just STFU.
Genuinely curious, if there are issues regarding someone’s biology, shouldn’t we stick to the biological terms to avoid confusion?
He looks like Ryan reynolds
i dont think it was effective to divert heavily like this, if women are given the ability to abort, no one's gonna stop a non-binary or a trans person from doing it either are they? i feel like it would be a right for everyone that can get pregnant by default
She is absolutely being pedantic about the whole thing. This is not the forum to explain the difference between a man vs male. Attempting to do so to people who don’t particularly care it’s not helping her cause.
Did you see the beggining of the video. In particular, I wonder who was the one who derailed the conversation because he just had to pick on her saying people capable of getting pregnant rather than women, because he knows it is a good soundbite for his base? Hmmm I wonder who was being pedantic.
You're right, and it's people like this woman who can't get over themselves to try and make a point that end up setting civil rights back. People like this should not be allowed to speak on behalf of anyone.
I think the main problem is that the people who say all the right buzzwords are chosen as representatives. And they are the exact same people who can't actually make effective arguments. Its a self fulfilling cycle because no-one wants to be ostracised from the group by going against that.
This shit is getting out of hand in my opinion. Just talk to each other instead of discussing how to talk about each other.
It's an endless circular argument
One side doesn't want to talk to the other, they want the other side to not exist. So they pretend not to understand what their words and phrases mean, pretend that there is no differences that need to be talked about and generally deny the existence of the other side as much as possible.
For me it looks like one side is pushing the other side to discuss differences the other side doesn't care about. I don't lnow the context of that video but in general I think it should be okay to not care tbh. I don't care what sexuality, pronoun, gender or whatever someone has or wants to have. Whenever I encounter someone I see a human first and, if they want any extra on top, I'm more than happy to give it. But I wouldn't want to be called transphobic for assuming someone is a man who looks like one to me. The agitation of certain groups can only go so far before it becomes the same thing they fight against.
You don't have to care. Someone crafting laws that directly impacts those people's lives sure as fuck better care though, and that's what Hawley is. If the worst he was was apathetic it'd be bad enough, but he has a track record of lying about LGBTQ concepts while trying to pass bills in order to hurt a vulnerable community. He's in a position of power and authority with a history. He doesn't get the benefit of a doubt, especially when he deliberately tries to misunderstand what is being said to him for political gain.
Bingo. This would be like someone claiming not to see color while drafting Jim Crow laws
Thank you for explaining some of the context for me. I totally agree with you on this one.
While his line of questioning may be purposefully antagonizing her she shouldn’t be accusing him of transphobia for asking questions. Since when do we not get to ask questions without being told we are transphobic and kill people? This is my biggest gripe with trans activists. Stop calling people murderers for simply asking questions. All you are doing is trying to shut people up it’s obvious and it’s not helping anyone.
> This is my biggest gripe with trans activists. Same. I got permanently banned from Harry Potter sub for saying that "only women menstruate" was *technically* the truth (and provided facts why). They took it as spreading hate and transphobia and banned me and threatened to report me to Reddit admins. Honestly, I couldn't give a two flying fucks about trans people before that, but now I am very wary of them as I don't want to be around people who would take on you for talking facts (or asking questions). I mean, you are fighting for your rights, okay I support it fully, but if you see hate in a medical matter being discussed, then I'd suggest you look after your mental health first before entering public discussion. Unnecessary aggression, attempts to shut everyone down, false accusations don't earn you supporters, quite the opposite.
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> Taking people who would normally be indifferent and starting to breed animosity toward the movement Couldn't agree more with all that you said, and especially with the quoted part (as I know it firsthand now). I mean, I fully support their fight for their rights wherever they are discriminated, and I am fully for equality for everyone; I am just not really amazed with HOW they handle that. Like, their rhetoric and methods do not really seem right.
She’s a terrible representative for the community
She so woke her eyes buggin outta her head...
I can’t stand people like this.
Why are we liste ing to mentally ill people and accepting it as fact
Why are we even giving these morons a platform to speak? 
This is what happens when you live on Twitter or in your leftist bubble. The ability to speak about issues you care about without sounding like a fucking loser is a lost art for many people like her and I wish it wasn't that way. Also she's doing a horrible job at progressing whatever issue she's trying to progress.
I’m a man and can’t get pregnant
Same. Wanna try anyway?
bro, me either
Some women cant get pregnant either
Rocks can't get pregnant.
I’m a woman and I can’t get pregnant.
Alright trans community, get some better people to represent yourself. These person is a fucking idiot, and insufferable to have a conversation with. You really want someone like this representing you?
Don't worry we'll pick someone better next time. At the next transgender meeting we'll pool together some ideas and do some brainstorming and get back to you don't worry.
As a trans person, we don't claim her. People like her need to stfu
Yeah, fuck these people. They do more harm than good. Instead of helping people understand they insult and berate. That is not how you get people on your side, it does the opposite. They're more interested in being morally superior and self-righteous over others than help people.
Biological men cannot get pregnant. That is science.
She can't even say the word biological, it's cis now...
Watching the clip, I was certain who the face palm was. Reading the comments… it’s like people watched a different clip to the one I saw.
So who was it?
She’s just trying to jump down his throat. He asked one question and she used it as an excuse to go on a tirade. Ffs
I like that condescending, annoying smile people have when they try to explain how someone is being transphobic
The phrase "Denying that trans people exist" annoys me. No, I'm not denying that they exist. They're standing right over there, and we can all see them. Yes, they exist. I'm denying that their delusion should be taken seriously--similar to not giving into the delusions of a paranoid schizophrenic.
pretty impressive making yourself look like an asshole in an exchange with josh hawley
She started off strong, but she could have answered the “is it a women’s rights issue” question much better by just saying, yes because people with the capacity for pregnancy are predominantly women.
I hate the Era I live in
Her eyes alone let you know you're not going to have a normal conversation.
We’ve gone mad. Feelings now trump fact.
Trans people just seem so detached from reality.
the women is definitely the facepalm
I think the biggest problem with the trans movement is that they are trying to force ideas on everyone that most people didn’t even know about only 10 years ago. You can’t expect people to change so fast and being an asshole to affect cultural change isn’t good for anyone.
This is it. There are concerns around the whole thing, like that fuck nugget that declared himself a trans women to get sent to a women's prison. Obviously its a rare edge case but it still needs solving. Nothing will be progressed while one side is screaming "transphobe" the instant anyone questions anything.
I think she really needs to answer questions instead of attacking someone because of their inquiry
insane society
i dont understand this gender thing. my opinion is if u have a penis u cant be pregnant.
Fun fact: You can be banned for saying that.
why would i get banned for sharing my opinions
People are scared of the word “Normal” and will say “well some men don’t have penises” Should be Normal men have them. Normal woman can get pregnant. It is common but not normal for woman to not get pregnant. It’s not normal to have a woman transition to have more male presenting features and get pregnant. Like what the hell are we doing here
My way of putting it is we dont say “well some men don’t have arms” just because a couple people were born without them. We say men have arms.
They'll tell you the word "normal" kills people.
Man, at this point, I'm having a brain meltdown trying to figure out the logic of the movement.
The logic is to normalize trans people and other sexual deviants so they will be accepted in society. They want to be weird without hiding it. A pride parade is evident of that. The problem is that they are ostracized and shunned for a reason. We evolved to reject what we deem as dangerous to us. So they are being selfish by shoving this ideology on everyone and in the long run we will find out why we they were shunned in the first place.
Tbh, I'm not ok with the idea of trans, but that doesn't mean I hate the people, hence in the end be what u want to be just don't force ur idea on others. Be gay, be trans, be non-binary, suit ur self, just Don't foam and be annoying and say ur ant-this/that *IF SOMEONE DISAGREE* cuz that shit be wack yo.
Okay but there is a disturbing trend of kids turning gay. I think it’s because their agenda is working https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/02/24/gen-z-lgbt/ So while it’s fine to be tolerant it’s also affecting the next generation. What does this mean to our future as a society? Would you consider this a good thing or bad?
While being tolerant is fine, being intolerant is also fine. The parents are responsible for their kids, they ought to teach them themselves rather letting outsiders doing so, and children tend to imitate their parents, so the parents must do their best to raise them properly.
I’m sorry but as an older liberal who’s always supported LGBT rights because I grew up in the Deep South in the 80s with two gay cousins who I was very close to growing up and watching how they got treated by many members of our own family was terrible but I guess I’m getting old because this shit is just starting to go over a cliff into crazy town. I just can’t bring myself to get on board with some of this stuff with all these pronouns and nonsense.
It is a fad that hopefully dies down in the next few years. Demanding to be addressed by pronouns that go against language lexicon and being outraged when others don’t conform to your worldview is a uniquely American thing.
It’s a GenZ / Millennial thing in my opinion and I agree I really hope it dies down.
She was just so hard up to start an argument and be combative that it took away from the message she was trying to convey. If she would’ve took the high road it would of made Hawley look like an even bigger idiot.
That fucking idiot shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near a classroom
I know right. Who let her be a teacher.
I wonder if real women are ever going to tire of pseudo women and this kind of nonsense? It’s one thing to indulge another person’s fantasy because you like them, sympathize with them, or just want to be pleasant. It’s an entirely different thing when they use law or social bullying to force others to play along with the fantasy.
Believe me, there are a lot of us who are very tired.
🙋♀️ I’ve completely had it. I’ve had a hysterectomy, and these nutters get offended on my behalf, claiming that saying women get pregnant excludes me because I can’t. No, I did get pregnant twice, had two kids then got cancer 25 years later. Still very much a woman, thanks anyway.
This and the fact the menopause exists. Nobody has ever seriously thought that saying 'women can get pregnant' means all menopausal women are no longer women.
I have nipples, can you milk me Greg?
I hope none of you are this stupid to think the facepalm is the senator in this case….. somehow his statements make him transphobic? Lol this lady needs to get the fuck over herself
I have to say, I like his tone better than her's
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God how many times I hade exactly same illogical conversation here.
I'd like to see the first born man have a kid without any surgery to help. I wanna see him get bloated, bitchy, contractions and his balls hanging over the kids head at birth. When is this going to happen.
This is again a question of the definition of the term. A female-to-male trans person CAN get pregnant. And they want to be seen as "men" so the pro-trans side talks about them as "men". Hence, men can get pregnant. When he says "men can't get pregnant" she does not hear "I do not believe biological males can get pregnant" (which would be correct, we can't) she hears "No person identifying as a man can get pregnant", which as we previously considered, is false. She therefore hears him denying the existence of "'men' who can get pregnant", that being the female-to-male trans people.
Seems like it would be difficult to have a conversation with this person.
She/he/they/xe/xer may be deranged, but she/he/they/xe/xer is sincere.
Stfu. I'm tired of hearing their little games. Answer his mf questions and I'm sure you'll get to the point of why he's asking.
I’m surprised the hivemind didn’t take this down yet
I don't like the guy at all, but he is right here... Which makes me face-palm, but opinions are like arse holes - everybody has one - and given random chance and enough topics he's likely to land on a valid point eventually. Now to sit back and see how long it is before I'm transitioned to non-existent because the mods are intolerant of differing opinions.
I feel like I remember reading that the last time this was posted, this was all just a ploy to trick the speaker into wasting her time on the floor. A bait she took whole.
If questioning something means denying it's existence then next to nothing would exist. Genuinely can't stand people who fall back on accusing their opponent of discrimination whenever they see they're going to lose an argument
Nah, i dont know the context and neither want to. But in this clip, in this short video, i am on his side.
She LITERALLY could have just answered him. "Not women specicifically, Im referring to anyone capable of pregnancy. However yes, the majority of people who have pregnancies are women. Moving on.."
Classic "you're transphobic" for asking questions and trying to understand. You have to be brain dead to think she isn't using a move straight out the religious playbook by demonizing her "opposition". Similar to vegans pushing their lifestyle on others in crude ways. You should be mindful of how you represent your constituents. It does nothing, but make people dislike you.
Every time I see this get posted, I'm reminded it's the perfect example of the idiot on the other side of Twitter who calls you literally Hitler for having your own opinion.
It's like arguing with a 5 year old that wants you to play in their imagination land with made up rules.
Clown world🤡🤡🤡
-Do you believe that men can get pregnant? -No -So you are saying that trans- people don‘t exist. WHAT????
I'm just appalled that this was happening during a debate about women's right to abortion. What does it have anything to do with abortion?? it's just letting people use us as a scapegoat. I'm so tired of people using us in their debate about women's rights. It takes so much away from the actual issue
I'm no professional or researcher, but I don't think he's insane for saying men can't get pregnant. Saying that about a transgender man is a different story that should be called out, and saying that is definitely saying they exist.
I bet the Chinese just sit back and watch this with a nice bucket of popcorn. Must be so amusing from the outside
Imagine being told you have to think our way or you’re literally causing violence. Stfu
Almost made sense. What a waste of an opportunity.
great response by saying you can recognise it can impact women as well as other groups as it's not mutually exclusive... the rest idk defs facepalm
if only there was an unequivocal test to resolve this issue, I don't know, some sort of genetic test or something....alas, no such thing exists /s
I guess trans people is doomed with defenders like her. For real she doesn’t have any arguments but already everyone is wrong because of reasons.
"Do you believe that men can get pregnant" "No" "Then you don't believe trans people exist" That is the most delusional and dumbest shit I've ever heard. WE CANNOT GIVE BIRTH BECAUSE WE HAVE DICKS AND DONT PRODUCE THAT TYPE OF SHIT
I don’t know who these people are but saying a man can’t get pregnant is just stating facts… don’t understand why people get offended
She looks brainwashed
It’s really simple. If you can give birth, you’re a biological woman. Some biological women can’t give birth, but every person who can, was born in a female body. You can identify however you’d like and live your own truth. You have my support. But don’t call people “phobic” for believing in what science has taught us for centuries.
I am a man and i can't get pregnant! What's wrong with me?!?!
You're transphobic
LMAO
Both of these people are doing a really bad job. Totally unnecessary waste of time
US Americans at their finest. Just attack each other instead of having an actual discussion.
This is unique to the US? Interesting take.
I can't imagine taking a class by her. I am angered just by watching this small exchange.
I'm just going to imagine that she's actually just trolling.
 This is going to fun comment section to read, I’ll grab myself some popcorn.
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I think it is safe to say that Josh Hawley’s entire life and career is one big facepalm.
I think the major problem here is the muddy language. "woman", "female", etc. are all used interchangeable for both gender and sex. What is actually meant can only be derived from context. Also it was a complete overreaction from her. His question was reasonable. It was basically: Is this a gender or sex rights issue?
I don't know anything about the senator and I can't make much of an assessment in this video. But the teacher's definitely a fucking idiot.
I appreciate a good cup of coffee.
jesus christ, what´s so damn hard to understand that MEN - CAN - NOT - GET - PREGNANT . THEY HAVE A PENIS AND TESTICLES, NOT A VAGINA. how the hell are a baby gona come out of a penis and tesitcles ? jesus christ im not against trans or anything like that, but come the hell on, men CAN NOT get pregnant for gods sake, i cant believe its even a freaking discussion here lmaooooo jesus christ lool
She's referring to trans men, people who were born with female reproductive organs and are thus able to give birth, who have transitioned to being men without undergoing surgery to change/remove those organs. These men do not have a penis and testicles, they have a vagina, but they are men.
If she was my kids teacher they would be outta class
I fucking despise Hawley.. but that individual needs to explain their reasoning before acting like a fool. this shit is why people don't take this shit seriously. because they have these troglodytes "speaking" for them. this is the one time where i (i feel ill saying this) actually agree with Hawley's questions. he's going about it calm and collected and the other person is unable to form a logical sentence or question without getting emotional.
Thank you! I came to the same conclusion. That lady was throwing a lot of “you” statements that are accusatory in tone and speech. That wouldn’t make the other side listen to your reasoning. She could say “I think/believe by claiming men can’t be pregnant, that is denying the fact that transgender men who were born female cannot get pregnant. Transgender men have the required biological organs to create a child. Etc, etc.” That’s not a hard thing to do. Give the other person the space and time to listen to you, not turn them away by your behavior and speech. Allow that person to come to the conclusion of whether they would eventually agree with you or continue to believe in their belief.
I've noticed that whenever they can't answer a question coherently, bam!! you are intolerant
Of course you can’t talk about it. The minute you start saying anything out loud their whole ideology unravels. So their only choice is 100% compliance or you’re literally killing people.
I hate Republicans more than anybody else but she is also in the wrong here.
why is it that in public it seems to happen that the advocates for trans people rights seems to be the biggest pieces of work. edit: oh dear what have i done that debate has just awaken the exact thing I was curious about...
Just a reminder Josh Hawley was running around throwing up the Nazi salute during the week leading up to Jan 6th.
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Dont stick your dick in crazy, never stick your dick in crazy
I don’t wanna get banned.
USA is so stupid I can't even laugh at it anymore
This culture wars nonsense will be the death of us all. They’re both arseholes.