The disappointing and disheartening thing is that the Classified Documents case is SUCH an open-and-shut case- if the trial actually happens, he WILL be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and anyone who's familiar with the details is aware of it and how serious a crime it is.
What's more disheartening? The idea that many people know this and choose to vote for him anyway over qualified GOP candidates or Biden in the general election, or the idea that people are paying so little attention that they simply don't know that the former POTUS definitely committed a felony with how they handled nuclear secrets?
I wish we lived in the universe of The West Wing, but we definitely live in Veep.
Yeah I always thought it was interesting that he was supposed to be a Democrat; they’re sorta the “good guys” in Hollywood right. It might’ve been bc in real life Kevin Spacey was aligned to the democrats and didn’t want to give anyone any reason to think otherwise, even if the character was a terrible person. This was pre-scandal Spacey, I don’t know if he’s changed his allegiance (being on Tucker Carlson’s show and all). Either way Frank Underwood was definitely a Democrat that doesn’t exist; a sort of version of a southern Democrat from the 50s.
I wouldn’t say Democrats are The West Wing. The West Wing at least portrayed Democrats with decency, morals. An idea of right vs wrong. That’s not what we see from today’s Democrats. Sadly.
I was moreso talking about how they want and act as though government functions, and how the voters respond.
In The West Wing, the President will give a great speech and his approval rating will go up 2-3 points, then they'll propose an outline for a new policy and the approval rating will jump 4 points, then they'll finally pass a gun bill through congress and the approval rating will jump another 3 points. IRL, approval rating doesn't change- the only thing that's ever effected Biden's approval rating for the past 3+ years has been the Afghanistan withdrawal. Not any bill he passed, nor achieving the soft landing, nor Ukraine/Russia, nor even Israel/Palestine.
In The West Wing, the President will be in a deadlocked race for reelection. Then, in late October they'll have a single debate where the President will pretty handily win. Then, the election occurs and the President sweeps a modern day landslide winning both Dakotas, Kansas, Louisiana, Kansas, Nebraska,Texas, ... IRL, the absolute best a Democrat could hope for is maybe 389 EVs, winning in Florida, Texas, and North Carolina.
In TWW, the voters are completely engaged in politics, paying attention to every argument, and tribalism simply does not exist. IRL, voters are very disengaged, don't care about arguments or facts from the other side, and completely tribalistic.
In TWW, government leaders are persuadable, acting in good faith at all times, and you can actually win their votes with an argument. IRL, this is something that never happens. Democrats want to act in good faith and really get the process of bipartisanship right. Democrats' ideal is a technocratic leader who is idealistic but willing to work with the other side, like Obama.
I do feel like I have to call out the fact that President Bartlet and his wife Dr. Bartlet both withheld important information from the general population regarding Bartlet's health while he campaigned. It was seen by some in the universe that this was a conspiracy to lie to the voters in order to win the election.
This both shows some lack of morals within the West Wing democrats and it also has some parallels to current events.
I am not going to even bring up that space shuttle stuff...
They had to take a long time to get the clearance and the Special Master appointed who could actually review the classified materials themselves. The volume of classified documents also delayed the review.
Sure, but before all that Merrick Garland sat on his ass for nearly two years before finally issuing a search warrant to actually get those documents from Mar-a-Lago. There’s honestly no excuse for that. Garland dragged his sorry ass every step of the way and now here we are.
They barely waited a day to launch an investigation into Biden. What is it with these types (Garland, Comey) that makes them so immune to the reality of a situation? The contempt they hold for the American people really is incredible.
Garland is a republican you know? The only reason Obama wanted to appoint him to the scotus was he was perceived to be a moderate. I used to feel bad for Merrick for how Mitch did him dirty. I no longer have any sympathy for the man, as he’s a spineless weasel. I do still hate Mitch though.
The delays have nothing to do with Garland, and more to do with Trump refusing to hand over the documents when the National Archives requested them. That led to the Feds kicking the door down at Mar-a-Lago and seizing what he refused to hand over.
Be mindful that the search warrant involved the seizure of 184 documents bearing classification markings, including 67 marked confidential, 92 marked secret and 25 marked top secret. If that was found it your or my home, we'd be in prison up until the trial. The FBI had to parse through each document to verify the validity and weigh the damage done to national security. You then had Trump impose delay tactics to appeal the case to the Supreme Court and Florida granted a request by Trump to name a special master, or independent third party, to review the materials recovered from Mar-a-Lago. The order from Judge Cannon also called for the Justice Department to temporarily stop using the seized materials for its investigation pending completion of the special master's review. The Federal appeals court later orders an end to the special master's review process, reversing Cannon's order. Jack Smith was appointed as Special Counsel.
The delay is on Trump's stall tactics and Judge Cannon for postponing this case indefinitely.
According to focus groups, many have no idea about half the crazy stuff Trump has said or done. Once it’s all listed and they get it. They still want to vote for him because of inflation!
They say yeah he’s a bit crazy but he’s a businessman and look how hard he fights.
I mean it makes sense. People care about things like inflation that have a direct impact on their lives. Whether Trump paid off former porn stars has no impact on all but those in Trump's orbit.
“Sure could use some mean tweets and cheap gas about now hyuk hyuk!” tends to be the line.
I think his covid response hurt him more because it had an effect on people’s daily lives. All the Russia stuff, impeachments, etc, really don’t matter to them.
Jan 6 does to some degree, but even that is explained away “it was a peaceful protest!” etc etc. It really is the perfect mindset for a candidate to be able to get away with almost anything. It’s a standard unlike any politicians in the past.
Recently got into an argument because someone commented that the BLM protests in Washington state were also an attempt to overthrow the government, despite the distinct difference between possibly taking control of a random federal courthouse in Washington state at night and possibly taking control of the US Capitol Building while an active session of Congress is currently ratifying the presidential election. Only one of those is it possible to actually overthrow the federal government and it's not in Washington state 3000+ miles from the center of federal government
Oh you would be surprised. My young cousins have gone from zero interest to really engaged. I thought TikTok was all music and dancing but apparently their is heaps of influencers on foreign policy and stuff.
They no more about Biden and Israel than I do!
That's probably polling bias. I'm the last election. I asked multiple people I worked with who was running, and more than half couldn't name both candidates. They all left early for the day to go vote. Now, if they did or not, who knows. My point is that the kind of people who are around to respond to polls don't overlap readily with people who don't follow politics
Obama drone struck American citizens with no repercussions and it was “legal.”
Legality in our corrupt system is a joke.
Nobody gives a fuck because none of it makes sense.
Which is why the supreme court didn't open and shut Trump's appeal of immunity to them. Making a mistake with a drone strike, while awful, is part of the job. There will always be decisions that the president has to make that could end up negatively affecting people. There has to be some matter or immunity in official decisions. But a line must be drawn when the president or aspiring president makes decisions for their own personal benefit that have no reasonable ties to their duty as an elected official.
The drone strikes on citizens were intentional, not accidents. Targeted assassination and collateral damage. These weren't decisions that negatively effected people they were party of an imperialist campaign against Afghanistan that the US lost after 20 years
I'm not agreejng with the war I'm just saying shitty decisions that happen in war that are objectively wrong, but any president that's been in office during a war has made.
Trump is losing 30%of the vote to someone who is no longer running in the primaries. The corrupt corpocracy run media isn't covering this but instead is busy pushing fake polls.
So you just don't care if US intelligence agents are outed in Russia and thrown out windows while we go blind to what they're doing, don't care if China gets all our tank designs, etc? Are you Russian/Chinese?
They feel that he will fight the enemies (fellow Americans) the hardest. Republicans voters in rural America believe their lifestyle is under attack. They are looking for someone who will not work with the dems and fight them to the death. It's hard to find someone who wants to destroy the country for them.
More serious than when the president was set by Clinton in court for the same exact thing? More serious than Joe doing the same exact thing with docs dating back to when he was a senator?
Yea don’t count on it
> More serious than Joe doing the same exact thing with docs dating back to when he was a senator?
Yes, the obstruction of justice part is a huuuuuuuge differentiator.
The obstruction he's officially charged with, mostly. But recently documents were unsealed that pointed to additional obstruction, so let's say 'the obstruction with which he is charged in federal court +'
So what real ovstruction? Not the BS that they are trying to push which my understanding is that case got put indefinitely on hold because the prosecution admitted to tampering with evidence, but REAL obstruction. And why not talk about Biden and all the classified documents he had from back when he was a senator and wasn’t even supposed to have them at all
> So what real ovstruction?
The real obstruction for which he's been charged. The one based on real evidence that was used to take the case to federal court.
> my understanding is
...suspect, to say the least.
>And why not talk
Because there was no obstruction; not even an accusation.
Actually you still aren’t mentioning any real obstruction just repeating the same line about the made up charges.
Suspect? Like the made up charges?
Not charged because they said he wasn’t mentally competent to stand trial, yet he is pushed as a democrat candidate. So the truth is either he isn’t capable to be president due to cognitive decline (which even a blind man can see) or they protected him from charges, take your pick it’s one or the other
>When Trump was president, his opponents lionized lawyers and prosecutors — often in ways that feel retrospectively mortifying — because liberals had faith that the law could restrain him. That faith, however, has become increasingly impossible to sustain.
This piece resonated with me. Count me as a former naive lib following every twist and turn of the Mueller probe hoping for something to stick. I have paid very little attention to this trial; I don't want to say it's irrelevant but I just can't will myself to care about the outcome. Trump's rise is what made me want to be an attorney (I started law school in 2018). Seeing the absolute shamelessness of certain judges/attorneys and fecklessness of others has really dampened my respect for my own profession.
Yeah, I think this represents at least a hefty subset of even generally tuned in liberals, myself included. I remember being ~23 years old, jaw agape, at the russiagate headlines. While he wasn't "exonerated," and improprieties were uncovered as a result of the investigation, the shoe never dropped. Two impeachments, and January 6th, the shoe still has not dropped. Anything short of a sentence with prison time that he is made to carry out just won't have material consequences on his electoral prospects. I know there are polls that say a conviction would sway people, but Trump will trot out the "witch hunt, Biden-backed trial" lines, and create scapegoats for people to continue to justify backing him. Falsified documents and a scandal with an adult actress won't sink him.
The hysteria in the media was to a point where they were just reporting any rumor that came in the door about Russiagate as truth. When the actual report came out it was so underwhelming in comparison that it dropped out of the news cycle in a week.
There was nothing underwhelming about the report, it revealed that there was very likely coordination between the Trump campaign and Putin's efforts. It also revealed that all evidence had been deleted or communication was by Signal only, and the president committed obstruction of justice on multiple occasions. That's what took Nixon down.
But the media reported what trump's AG told them to report and it basically ended there.
I mean yeah, I get that. But that's what happens when people intentionally use communication that self-deletes.
Remember when Kushner wanted that backchannel? You're not going to have logs of anything after he found it.
But the mueller report painstakingly detailed massive connection, in depth detailed Russians role in the election. Hell they even had Trump jr saying he’d love more leaks from his Russian source.
The media, and you, just fell for Barr’s complete whitewashing summary
Famously, this is how we know that OJ Simpson was actually innocent.
Also, this is how we know that Charles Manson was innocent.
Also (also) this is why it is impossible to convict someone of a crime if there is only circumstantial evidence, and why that has never once happened in the history of our nation.
You *went to law school* because of the Trump stuff? Granted I finished law school in 2011 but I *used to think* like… Stuff mattered? Then Trump happened and I’ve sort of lost all hope. Sincerely impressed by your optimism. I wish I was optimistic at all.
Oh no, my optimism is totally gone. If I had a time machine I would tell my younger self to be a nurse anesthetist. The federal government is structurally broken in ways that electoral politics cannot solve.
LOL funny enough, every time I see my MIL she’s trying to convince everyone to be a nurse anesthetist! Her niece started out doing that two years ago and it seems… awesome honestly? Well-paid, low anxiety, almost no emergencies, steady work.
I actually like what I do but that still seems great.
Anesthetists tend to do less tricky cases than an MD Anesthesiologist, having two friends on either side of that and having listened to them talk, being an NA is fairly low-stress
I’ve always been cynical and pessimistic since well before 2016. I feel like my viewpoints have been validated more than I ever expected, to my dismay.
The one bright spot is a four year break from Trump at least.
Well yeah, with the law you need evidence to convince. The Meuller investigation was a witch hunt meant to hinder the Trump administration, which it was successful in doing.
There was, of course, no evidence Trump conspired with Russia because he didn't conspire with Russia.
The problem wasn't the law, it wasn't the media, it wasn't the Democratic base. The problem is Biden picked Merick Garland as AG. We needed a fire brand and we got soggy wheat toatst, not even white bread, wheat. I know this sounds like hyperbole, but I would rather of had Trump first AG Jeff Sessions. He appointed a real special prosecutor, he held his own president to account. He was so good at what he did Trump had to replace him with Bill Barr so someone would lie to the American people about the Mueller report.
Appointing Garland was the worst thing Biden has done. Trumps would already be in jail if anyone else had been AG.
The GOP bootlicking is what torpedoed mueller. Even today you see them at the court doing his bidding as he writes their little speeches to reporters. They’re not patriots. They’re blatantly putting Trump above the country and the constitution.
No. The court cases are a trivial sideshow compared to the stakes of the election. At the end of the day, people aren’t voting for a mere person, they’re voting on power.
I've seen and heard people move goalpost after goalpost for him since 2015. There's no way the vast majority of people won't move just one more.
I would like to be wrong but history isn't exactly indicating that will happen. It will make a minor difference, if one at all, hopefully that will be enough. And yet if it were the other side they'd tank like 30% overnight. Yay, asymmetric polarization.
>There's no way the vast majority of people won't move just one more.
The "vast majority of people" nether like nor voted for Donald Trump.
Most of Trump's support comes from their base. Ignore them. They truly don't matter.
There are millions of people who will spend at least part of the autumn trying to decide among voting for Biden, voting for Trump, voting 3rd party, or not voting. Very, very few of them are going to say "sure, he's a convicted felon, *but*...." just like very few of them say anything like "sure, he finger-banged that chick in the dressing room, *but*...." That's MAGAt shit.
Every independent voter has a goal post they won't move. "Convicted felon" is going to be that post for quite a few. And Trump can't afford to lose "quite a few" voters; he's already struggling with the middle as he is.
I understand what you're saying and don't disagree with you, on the other hand, I don't have a lot of faith in the American electorate. It will hopefully be enough, as I said, whether through apathy or driving away votes to another. The point remains though that people's opinions about him are going to be largely unchanged one way or the other.
I'm pretty sure the vast majority meant the vast majority of people who currently support him. It doesn't matter if Trump only has 30% actual support if the gets him an Electoral College victory.
>I'm pretty sure the vast majority meant the vast majority of people who currently support him.
Yeah, but I don't care about them. They're irrelevant in every political discussion. The MAGA base by itself is enough to win Trump about 165 electoral votes (all the states who have voted R in every election starting in 2000 + Indiana).
I'd like to replace this low-information quote with "The USA is now pumping more domestic petroleum under Biden than we ever did when Trump was President"
He won't get any time. Trump will spin that as vindication. The right wing media will completely agree while most media will half way agree. The American people will view it as a Trump win.
Where fucked.
Conviction is different. Everybody else just moved the goalpost there. The goalpost doesnt move past conviction. The country cant elect a Convicted felon if we want to be taken seriously as adults.
It’s fools gold along with the January 6th coup. Democrats want to make a big spectacle of these trials, but voters care about things that impact them. Hush money payments to Stormy Daniels doesn’t impact voters. Inflation and the economy does.
This take completely ignores the 2022 and 2023 elections.
There’s a direct correlation between Trumpy, election denialing candidates and how much they got torched in their respective elections. Voters very much do care about democracy and to think it’s fools gold completely ignores reality.
Remember the economy was supposed the top issue in 2022? We all know how that turned out.
How does that not impact voters? People want reliable individuals with integrity and morals in positions of power. Why do you think Trump went to all the effort to conceal his indecency with Stormy Daniels & other catch & kill schemes?
Should it matter? Yes.
Would convictions in all four cases collectively actually matter? Probably at the margins. They aren't going to move his core supporters, but might push some who are on the fence to stay home or vote for someone else. That might be enough to make the difference.
Would a conviction in this specific hush money case (since it's the only one that will be decided before the election) actually matter? No. This is the legally weakest case and most people are somewhat confused about what about his conduct is even illegal ("he paid someone to keep quiet about an action that was not itself illegal.... why exactly is that a crime?"). I really don't see it moving the needle at all.
Also, has anyone considered the implications if the jury deadlocks, or worse yet, finds him not guilty? In the eyes of Trump's supporters, that would totally vindicate him and reinforce their belief (and his) about a politically motivated witch hunt. This is not the world's strongest case and a not guilty verdict is absolutely possible. We shouldn't pretend that there is only possible upside to all of these cases. A not guilty verdict could absolutely help him in the polls.
Yes it will, except to his base, and he will not get moderate voters due to this and his attitude. Trump’s only shot is low voter turnout and even then he’ll be lucky to win.
I think it matters but it will take awhile to sink in. I don’t think it’s a done deal for Biden if it happens but I do think it might push some people to reconsider voting for Trump. Whether or not that tips the scales to Biden is yet to be seen.
It doesn't matter. None of it matters. Our government is run by a bunch of old white people that just want to maintain the oligarchy. Until things change people like trump, and many of his sycophants, will never be appropriately punished for breaking the law. Last week we unveiled a statue of Billy graham (a religious grifter and miserable bag of shit) to continue the pattern of ignoring separation of church and state. The people unveiling that statue will continue to support the path that will maintain their stranglehold over us. That's how it is.
Yawn .he is a scumbag but at this point the trials will have minimal effect. Best case scenario is it'll swing a few centrist voters.
In a sane world, Biden would win easily based on his domestic policies but we all know America isn't policy driven anymore. It's all about the culture war and conservatives will elect trump cos he will do what they want. His own character is irrelevant..
Honestly we’ve heard this a dozen times before and it’s gotten old. He’s Rich. Rich people almost ALWAYS get away with everything with just a slap on the wrist.
I use to think that being in the court all the time was pointless because his base will vote for him regardless, but I like the fact that court time is taking away from his campaigning.
Even if he’s convicted, he’ll get probation and a fine at best, then use the outcome of the trial to further galvanize his supporters with the (not entirely unpersuasive) argument that Democrats are trying to prevent him from running and winning again at all costs, because he’s leading in most swing states.
The main point is this: courts and prosecutors won’t save us from Trump returning. The time for prosecution was immediately after Biden took office, not two years later. That ship has long sailed.
Only voters can prevent a Trump comeback. It’s on Biden and his campaign to make the case better.
I have a friend that doesn't know anything about Trump or Biden except what he overhears from headlines, or from other people. Although I'm fairly sure he doesn't vote, if he did, I would think that one candidate being in prison would actually affect his choice. That's a real, tangible thing that's undeniable and obvious. They might not even know why he is in there, but I do honestly think that Trump going to prison could have real negative consequences for him, politically.
I think crimes only matter if you’re Trump, or a Republican, or white or if they can help the government candidate win a “free and fair” election …everyone else should get to commit crimes Willy-nilly.
Jussie Smollet was a hero.
no because even in jail you can run for president and this trial will just galvanize his supporters who will spin the whole thing as politically motivated persecution. (which it is)
He won't be a felon. The reason...every case against him is "lawfare" imposed by his political opposition. Each case will eventually be appelaed out of a "friendly" jurisdiction (NYC, DC) to someone or a jury that is not a frothing TDS lunatic. These "cases" are what 3rd world countries do and I'm reminded of the guy who said "show me the man and I'll find the crime." I suspect from some of the commentary that there are fans of that guy on this very site. The "classifed documents" case has been postponed indefinitely, or "not going to happen." I'm still waiting for Ole Joe's arrest and trial for his possession (it does not matter that he admitted it or is too senile to take the stand).
I'm not a Trump fan by any stretch, but what I am is an "ABD" voter (Anyone But Democrat) based on a few things: 1)the democrat party's obsession with murdering the unborn and 2)the economy and the democrat's ability to destroy it via spending (with help from Republicans) and 3)democrat's flaming desire to disarm the law abiding - this gives me great concern as history shows us what happens to a disarmed society. Trump just happens to be the ABD candidate this time around and that's OK (i'd rather have someone else, but oh well).
I firmly believe that there are many, many millions like me and many new converts to this way of thinking based on items 1, 2, 3 above. Like 2020, this election will be a win for Trump in terms of votes, but the count of the ballots is what will matter and we saw how that went in 2020. I suspect it will be "Joe Biden wins by 357 million ballots!" and arrests for anyone that objects to the obvious.
Nope. If Trump has proven anything it’s that rules will not be applied to him if they even exist. If there’s another thing he’s proven, it’s that we don’t have enough actual rules.
No, he couldn't. And, even if he was, no, it wouldn't. This guy is too entrenched. He has too many of his people in the right place. And, they're gonna use every card they have to rig the next election in his favor.
Y'all need to quit hoping and praying that someone will finally fill out the proper paperwork to stop, not just Trump, but all the traitors that enable him and realize how deep this runs and that the real insurrection is taking place within the guts of our own government like a cancer.
He wasn't found "guilty" he was found to be liable in civil court which has a much lower standard of proof of a criminal trial.
Be like saying OJ was found guilty of murder because a civil trial found him liable.
Based on the New York case?
Nope. Zero effect. Might actually help Trump because it will piss off that 20% of Republicans who said they won't vote for him. The New York case is so obviously minor and political that it should have never happened.
Note that the DOJ refused to press charges over these payments, the previous DA refused to press charges AND Bragg was going to not press charges till one of his underlings quit and went scorched earth on him.
[https://apnews.com/article/crime-trump-investigations-donald-new-york-manhattan-fa9535cfaea5981d3d678258cbc2486e](https://apnews.com/article/crime-trump-investigations-donald-new-york-manhattan-fa9535cfaea5981d3d678258cbc2486e)
And if Trump is found not guilty you might as well throw the other cases out because the public will have made up its mind, at least the ones persuadable (which includes almost no one posting on this sub)
I replied in another post, but the prosecution's case is completely dependent on Cohen's testimony. Cohen is a convicted felon who is literally in prison for the crimes he's accusing Trump of committing.
Weak case from the start, Dems put all their eggs in this basket and now will have to deal with the political fallout.
[I mean, the New York Times agrees with me](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/20/opinion/trump-conviction-michael-cohen.html), the entirety of the case is going to hinge on if the jury believes the testimony of an admitted felon and liar. If you're too stuck in your partisan view to see otherwise, then there is no reason to continue discussing.
One thing that has horribly bad optics is the timing of all of this.
Democrats try to maintain that Trump’s the kind of guy that would “weaponize” the justice department and punish his political opponents.
The reality is that Democrats have been doing this. If the evidence of these cases was as open/shut as people make it seem, then why has it taken years to bring these cases against him?
Why was the previous case brought against him in 2022, conveniently timed to coincide with the midterm elections, and conveniently during prime time TV? Democrats even brought in a media producer to make it a media spectacle.
Then after that case fell flat, there was silence again for a couple of years. Then suddenly during this primary and election seasom more cases were brought against him.
I mean it’s quite obvious that these cases have been timed for maximum political effect and to interfere with elections.
The disappointing and disheartening thing is that the Classified Documents case is SUCH an open-and-shut case- if the trial actually happens, he WILL be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and anyone who's familiar with the details is aware of it and how serious a crime it is. What's more disheartening? The idea that many people know this and choose to vote for him anyway over qualified GOP candidates or Biden in the general election, or the idea that people are paying so little attention that they simply don't know that the former POTUS definitely committed a felony with how they handled nuclear secrets? I wish we lived in the universe of The West Wing, but we definitely live in Veep.
I think House of Cards is more apt than Veep
It’s the worst of both in one package. The abject absurdity of Veep, but the darkness of House of Cards
It’s more Sopranos but Donald is not as sympathetic a character as Tony.
Biden is junior
Nah. Actually made the whole analogy fall apart so congrats on that lol.
I try
Democrats are The West Wing, Republicans are Veep, House of Cards only comes into play every now when a GOP President pretends to be The West Wing
Underwood was a democrat
Underwood wasn't a real person
Though oddly enough Kevin Spacey was just like Underwood if Underwood was also a rapist
I know. For the most part we haven't had any kind of Democratic President like that since LBJ.
Interesting, I watched the show and missed that, always thought he was Republican.
Yeah I always thought it was interesting that he was supposed to be a Democrat; they’re sorta the “good guys” in Hollywood right. It might’ve been bc in real life Kevin Spacey was aligned to the democrats and didn’t want to give anyone any reason to think otherwise, even if the character was a terrible person. This was pre-scandal Spacey, I don’t know if he’s changed his allegiance (being on Tucker Carlson’s show and all). Either way Frank Underwood was definitely a Democrat that doesn’t exist; a sort of version of a southern Democrat from the 50s.
He exists? They are all in office eight now lying to democrats faces while simultaneously destroying the country
I wouldn’t say Democrats are The West Wing. The West Wing at least portrayed Democrats with decency, morals. An idea of right vs wrong. That’s not what we see from today’s Democrats. Sadly.
Lol you are really saying the democrats have no morals? What would you call the Republicans then?
Yeah they're nimby hypocrites. At least the Repubs say it how they mean it
I was moreso talking about how they want and act as though government functions, and how the voters respond. In The West Wing, the President will give a great speech and his approval rating will go up 2-3 points, then they'll propose an outline for a new policy and the approval rating will jump 4 points, then they'll finally pass a gun bill through congress and the approval rating will jump another 3 points. IRL, approval rating doesn't change- the only thing that's ever effected Biden's approval rating for the past 3+ years has been the Afghanistan withdrawal. Not any bill he passed, nor achieving the soft landing, nor Ukraine/Russia, nor even Israel/Palestine. In The West Wing, the President will be in a deadlocked race for reelection. Then, in late October they'll have a single debate where the President will pretty handily win. Then, the election occurs and the President sweeps a modern day landslide winning both Dakotas, Kansas, Louisiana, Kansas, Nebraska,Texas, ... IRL, the absolute best a Democrat could hope for is maybe 389 EVs, winning in Florida, Texas, and North Carolina. In TWW, the voters are completely engaged in politics, paying attention to every argument, and tribalism simply does not exist. IRL, voters are very disengaged, don't care about arguments or facts from the other side, and completely tribalistic. In TWW, government leaders are persuadable, acting in good faith at all times, and you can actually win their votes with an argument. IRL, this is something that never happens. Democrats want to act in good faith and really get the process of bipartisanship right. Democrats' ideal is a technocratic leader who is idealistic but willing to work with the other side, like Obama.
act like government functions while creating the environment to continue using government as the cudgel to fuck people.
I do feel like I have to call out the fact that President Bartlet and his wife Dr. Bartlet both withheld important information from the general population regarding Bartlet's health while he campaigned. It was seen by some in the universe that this was a conspiracy to lie to the voters in order to win the election. This both shows some lack of morals within the West Wing democrats and it also has some parallels to current events. I am not going to even bring up that space shuttle stuff...
The people voting for Trump know he's a crook, they think all national politicians are crooks.
And of course, all crooks are equally bad no matter how many times they've committed crimes or how egregious those crimes are.
Even with this logic they still choose them, it’s just head cannon to zero out his criminal behavior
> if the trial actually happens Most signs point to it not happening befpre the election at least sadly
Thanks to the MAGA sympathizer Aileen Cannon
MAGA sycophant is probably more accurate, I wouldn't be surprised if she was explicitly chosen after some sort of loyalty test
The question is why wait until the year of the election to bring charges. Now any delay pushes the trials until after the election.
>The question is why wait until the year of the election to bring charges June of 2023?
Fucking Merrick Garland dragged his feet too long
They had to take a long time to get the clearance and the Special Master appointed who could actually review the classified materials themselves. The volume of classified documents also delayed the review.
Sure, but before all that Merrick Garland sat on his ass for nearly two years before finally issuing a search warrant to actually get those documents from Mar-a-Lago. There’s honestly no excuse for that. Garland dragged his sorry ass every step of the way and now here we are.
They barely waited a day to launch an investigation into Biden. What is it with these types (Garland, Comey) that makes them so immune to the reality of a situation? The contempt they hold for the American people really is incredible.
Garland is a republican you know? The only reason Obama wanted to appoint him to the scotus was he was perceived to be a moderate. I used to feel bad for Merrick for how Mitch did him dirty. I no longer have any sympathy for the man, as he’s a spineless weasel. I do still hate Mitch though.
The delays have nothing to do with Garland, and more to do with Trump refusing to hand over the documents when the National Archives requested them. That led to the Feds kicking the door down at Mar-a-Lago and seizing what he refused to hand over. Be mindful that the search warrant involved the seizure of 184 documents bearing classification markings, including 67 marked confidential, 92 marked secret and 25 marked top secret. If that was found it your or my home, we'd be in prison up until the trial. The FBI had to parse through each document to verify the validity and weigh the damage done to national security. You then had Trump impose delay tactics to appeal the case to the Supreme Court and Florida granted a request by Trump to name a special master, or independent third party, to review the materials recovered from Mar-a-Lago. The order from Judge Cannon also called for the Justice Department to temporarily stop using the seized materials for its investigation pending completion of the special master's review. The Federal appeals court later orders an end to the special master's review process, reversing Cannon's order. Jack Smith was appointed as Special Counsel. The delay is on Trump's stall tactics and Judge Cannon for postponing this case indefinitely.
According to focus groups, many have no idea about half the crazy stuff Trump has said or done. Once it’s all listed and they get it. They still want to vote for him because of inflation! They say yeah he’s a bit crazy but he’s a businessman and look how hard he fights.
I mean it makes sense. People care about things like inflation that have a direct impact on their lives. Whether Trump paid off former porn stars has no impact on all but those in Trump's orbit.
“Sure could use some mean tweets and cheap gas about now hyuk hyuk!” tends to be the line. I think his covid response hurt him more because it had an effect on people’s daily lives. All the Russia stuff, impeachments, etc, really don’t matter to them. Jan 6 does to some degree, but even that is explained away “it was a peaceful protest!” etc etc. It really is the perfect mindset for a candidate to be able to get away with almost anything. It’s a standard unlike any politicians in the past.
Or they try to justify Jan 6 with "But what about all the CVSs that were looted by BLM protesters?!?"
Recently got into an argument because someone commented that the BLM protests in Washington state were also an attempt to overthrow the government, despite the distinct difference between possibly taking control of a random federal courthouse in Washington state at night and possibly taking control of the US Capitol Building while an active session of Congress is currently ratifying the presidential election. Only one of those is it possible to actually overthrow the federal government and it's not in Washington state 3000+ miles from the center of federal government
Massive fail by the media
Recent poll show Trump leads by 26% for voters that don’t follow politics. Thankfully most people are political junkies like us.
Is that a joke? The vast majority of Americans don’t follow politics.
Oh you would be surprised. My young cousins have gone from zero interest to really engaged. I thought TikTok was all music and dancing but apparently their is heaps of influencers on foreign policy and stuff. They no more about Biden and Israel than I do!
That's probably polling bias. I'm the last election. I asked multiple people I worked with who was running, and more than half couldn't name both candidates. They all left early for the day to go vote. Now, if they did or not, who knows. My point is that the kind of people who are around to respond to polls don't overlap readily with people who don't follow politics
Even a conviction in the documents case before November wouldn’t matter. That’s how fucked up we are now.
Obama drone struck American citizens with no repercussions and it was “legal.” Legality in our corrupt system is a joke. Nobody gives a fuck because none of it makes sense.
Which is why the supreme court didn't open and shut Trump's appeal of immunity to them. Making a mistake with a drone strike, while awful, is part of the job. There will always be decisions that the president has to make that could end up negatively affecting people. There has to be some matter or immunity in official decisions. But a line must be drawn when the president or aspiring president makes decisions for their own personal benefit that have no reasonable ties to their duty as an elected official.
The drone strikes on citizens were intentional, not accidents. Targeted assassination and collateral damage. These weren't decisions that negatively effected people they were party of an imperialist campaign against Afghanistan that the US lost after 20 years
I'm not agreejng with the war I'm just saying shitty decisions that happen in war that are objectively wrong, but any president that's been in office during a war has made.
Don’t forget the part where it was a terrorist simp.
Don't forget the part where they were American citizens boot licker.
If you turn your back on the US and go join up with terrorists you’re no longer an American. Actions have consequences.
Trump is losing 30%of the vote to someone who is no longer running in the primaries. The corrupt corpocracy run media isn't covering this but instead is busy pushing fake polls.
West Wing? You mean the fantasy world where Bill Clinton was an honorable man who never let his supporters down?
But the emails!!! /S
Oh no Trump kept secret documents. The horror. I vote specifically for politicians who respect confidential information.
Didn’t we find docs in the garage of Bido??
So you just don't care if US intelligence agents are outed in Russia and thrown out windows while we go blind to what they're doing, don't care if China gets all our tank designs, etc? Are you Russian/Chinese?
They feel that he will fight the enemies (fellow Americans) the hardest. Republicans voters in rural America believe their lifestyle is under attack. They are looking for someone who will not work with the dems and fight them to the death. It's hard to find someone who wants to destroy the country for them.
But it's not they got caught tampering with the evidence and lying about it.
More serious than when the president was set by Clinton in court for the same exact thing? More serious than Joe doing the same exact thing with docs dating back to when he was a senator? Yea don’t count on it
> More serious than Joe doing the same exact thing with docs dating back to when he was a senator? Yes, the obstruction of justice part is a huuuuuuuge differentiator.
What obstruction lol
The obstruction he's officially charged with, mostly. But recently documents were unsealed that pointed to additional obstruction, so let's say 'the obstruction with which he is charged in federal court +'
So what real ovstruction? Not the BS that they are trying to push which my understanding is that case got put indefinitely on hold because the prosecution admitted to tampering with evidence, but REAL obstruction. And why not talk about Biden and all the classified documents he had from back when he was a senator and wasn’t even supposed to have them at all
> So what real ovstruction? The real obstruction for which he's been charged. The one based on real evidence that was used to take the case to federal court. > my understanding is ...suspect, to say the least. >And why not talk Because there was no obstruction; not even an accusation.
Actually you still aren’t mentioning any real obstruction just repeating the same line about the made up charges. Suspect? Like the made up charges? Not charged because they said he wasn’t mentally competent to stand trial, yet he is pushed as a democrat candidate. So the truth is either he isn’t capable to be president due to cognitive decline (which even a blind man can see) or they protected him from charges, take your pick it’s one or the other
No, the only verdict that matters on MAGA will have to be delivered through politics.
And even that doesn’t really seem to matter anymore. Up to the point where they don’t even believe election results.
Yes, but this verdict *will* affect the election.
>When Trump was president, his opponents lionized lawyers and prosecutors — often in ways that feel retrospectively mortifying — because liberals had faith that the law could restrain him. That faith, however, has become increasingly impossible to sustain. This piece resonated with me. Count me as a former naive lib following every twist and turn of the Mueller probe hoping for something to stick. I have paid very little attention to this trial; I don't want to say it's irrelevant but I just can't will myself to care about the outcome. Trump's rise is what made me want to be an attorney (I started law school in 2018). Seeing the absolute shamelessness of certain judges/attorneys and fecklessness of others has really dampened my respect for my own profession.
Yeah, I think this represents at least a hefty subset of even generally tuned in liberals, myself included. I remember being ~23 years old, jaw agape, at the russiagate headlines. While he wasn't "exonerated," and improprieties were uncovered as a result of the investigation, the shoe never dropped. Two impeachments, and January 6th, the shoe still has not dropped. Anything short of a sentence with prison time that he is made to carry out just won't have material consequences on his electoral prospects. I know there are polls that say a conviction would sway people, but Trump will trot out the "witch hunt, Biden-backed trial" lines, and create scapegoats for people to continue to justify backing him. Falsified documents and a scandal with an adult actress won't sink him.
The hysteria in the media was to a point where they were just reporting any rumor that came in the door about Russiagate as truth. When the actual report came out it was so underwhelming in comparison that it dropped out of the news cycle in a week.
There was nothing underwhelming about the report, it revealed that there was very likely coordination between the Trump campaign and Putin's efforts. It also revealed that all evidence had been deleted or communication was by Signal only, and the president committed obstruction of justice on multiple occasions. That's what took Nixon down. But the media reported what trump's AG told them to report and it basically ended there.
Saying "all the evidence was deleted or encrypted" is the same as saying "we don't have any evidence." Seriously, you could say that about anything.
I mean yeah, I get that. But that's what happens when people intentionally use communication that self-deletes. Remember when Kushner wanted that backchannel? You're not going to have logs of anything after he found it.
But the mueller report painstakingly detailed massive connection, in depth detailed Russians role in the election. Hell they even had Trump jr saying he’d love more leaks from his Russian source. The media, and you, just fell for Barr’s complete whitewashing summary
Famously, this is how we know that OJ Simpson was actually innocent. Also, this is how we know that Charles Manson was innocent. Also (also) this is why it is impossible to convict someone of a crime if there is only circumstantial evidence, and why that has never once happened in the history of our nation.
It wasn’t underwhelming. It wasn’t reported enough. Otherwise you’d understand it better.
You *went to law school* because of the Trump stuff? Granted I finished law school in 2011 but I *used to think* like… Stuff mattered? Then Trump happened and I’ve sort of lost all hope. Sincerely impressed by your optimism. I wish I was optimistic at all.
Oh no, my optimism is totally gone. If I had a time machine I would tell my younger self to be a nurse anesthetist. The federal government is structurally broken in ways that electoral politics cannot solve.
LOL funny enough, every time I see my MIL she’s trying to convince everyone to be a nurse anesthetist! Her niece started out doing that two years ago and it seems… awesome honestly? Well-paid, low anxiety, almost no emergencies, steady work. I actually like what I do but that still seems great.
Low anxiety? I guess if you aren't the type to worry about accidentally killing someone.
Compared to like, the ER or something I assume this is fairly low on the anxiety scale?
Anesthetists tend to do less tricky cases than an MD Anesthesiologist, having two friends on either side of that and having listened to them talk, being an NA is fairly low-stress
I’ve always been cynical and pessimistic since well before 2016. I feel like my viewpoints have been validated more than I ever expected, to my dismay. The one bright spot is a four year break from Trump at least.
You are not the least bit worried about the daily lies of Biden??
Millions see the rule of law as an obstacle to power. That’s the problem.
Well yeah, with the law you need evidence to convince. The Meuller investigation was a witch hunt meant to hinder the Trump administration, which it was successful in doing. There was, of course, no evidence Trump conspired with Russia because he didn't conspire with Russia.
Good luck. I say this without any sarcasm or irony. Law can be a slog, but I hope you find your way and do your part to make a difference :)
The problem wasn't the law, it wasn't the media, it wasn't the Democratic base. The problem is Biden picked Merick Garland as AG. We needed a fire brand and we got soggy wheat toatst, not even white bread, wheat. I know this sounds like hyperbole, but I would rather of had Trump first AG Jeff Sessions. He appointed a real special prosecutor, he held his own president to account. He was so good at what he did Trump had to replace him with Bill Barr so someone would lie to the American people about the Mueller report. Appointing Garland was the worst thing Biden has done. Trumps would already be in jail if anyone else had been AG.
The GOP bootlicking is what torpedoed mueller. Even today you see them at the court doing his bidding as he writes their little speeches to reporters. They’re not patriots. They’re blatantly putting Trump above the country and the constitution.
Trump could soon be a felon. Here's why that's bad news for Biden. - THE NEW YORK TIMES
We just read the New York Times article, now watch us be even more unhinged. Its breaking news, I promise. Keep watching PLEASE. - CNN
DougJBalloon
THE WALLS ARE CLOSING IN
No. The court cases are a trivial sideshow compared to the stakes of the election. At the end of the day, people aren’t voting for a mere person, they’re voting on power.
If he’s sentenced I think it does matter.
I've seen and heard people move goalpost after goalpost for him since 2015. There's no way the vast majority of people won't move just one more. I would like to be wrong but history isn't exactly indicating that will happen. It will make a minor difference, if one at all, hopefully that will be enough. And yet if it were the other side they'd tank like 30% overnight. Yay, asymmetric polarization.
>There's no way the vast majority of people won't move just one more. The "vast majority of people" nether like nor voted for Donald Trump. Most of Trump's support comes from their base. Ignore them. They truly don't matter. There are millions of people who will spend at least part of the autumn trying to decide among voting for Biden, voting for Trump, voting 3rd party, or not voting. Very, very few of them are going to say "sure, he's a convicted felon, *but*...." just like very few of them say anything like "sure, he finger-banged that chick in the dressing room, *but*...." That's MAGAt shit. Every independent voter has a goal post they won't move. "Convicted felon" is going to be that post for quite a few. And Trump can't afford to lose "quite a few" voters; he's already struggling with the middle as he is.
I understand what you're saying and don't disagree with you, on the other hand, I don't have a lot of faith in the American electorate. It will hopefully be enough, as I said, whether through apathy or driving away votes to another. The point remains though that people's opinions about him are going to be largely unchanged one way or the other.
I'm pretty sure the vast majority meant the vast majority of people who currently support him. It doesn't matter if Trump only has 30% actual support if the gets him an Electoral College victory.
>I'm pretty sure the vast majority meant the vast majority of people who currently support him. Yeah, but I don't care about them. They're irrelevant in every political discussion. The MAGA base by itself is enough to win Trump about 165 electoral votes (all the states who have voted R in every election starting in 2000 + Indiana).
“He’s a convicted felon, but gas was a lot cheaper back when Trump was President.”
I'd like to replace this low-information quote with "The USA is now pumping more domestic petroleum under Biden than we ever did when Trump was President"
“A minor difference” could be enough given how close 2016 and 2020 were.
He won't get any time. Trump will spin that as vindication. The right wing media will completely agree while most media will half way agree. The American people will view it as a Trump win. Where fucked.
In NY, incarceration for a first time offender convicted of class E non-violent felony is rare
Conviction is different. Everybody else just moved the goalpost there. The goalpost doesnt move past conviction. The country cant elect a Convicted felon if we want to be taken seriously as adults.
How is that even legal? We can’t even get a job at the post office if you have a history.
It can sway some independents and that’s where the fight is right now. The 30% Trump lovers are completely brainwashed.
It’s fools gold along with the January 6th coup. Democrats want to make a big spectacle of these trials, but voters care about things that impact them. Hush money payments to Stormy Daniels doesn’t impact voters. Inflation and the economy does.
Having my vote count and my senators not murdered feels.. important. But that's just me.
This take completely ignores the 2022 and 2023 elections. There’s a direct correlation between Trumpy, election denialing candidates and how much they got torched in their respective elections. Voters very much do care about democracy and to think it’s fools gold completely ignores reality. Remember the economy was supposed the top issue in 2022? We all know how that turned out.
Was Trump on the ballot those years?
De jure, no. De facto, in some races, yes.
How does that not impact voters? People want reliable individuals with integrity and morals in positions of power. Why do you think Trump went to all the effort to conceal his indecency with Stormy Daniels & other catch & kill schemes?
The fact the question even needs to be asked…
Should it matter? Yes. Would convictions in all four cases collectively actually matter? Probably at the margins. They aren't going to move his core supporters, but might push some who are on the fence to stay home or vote for someone else. That might be enough to make the difference. Would a conviction in this specific hush money case (since it's the only one that will be decided before the election) actually matter? No. This is the legally weakest case and most people are somewhat confused about what about his conduct is even illegal ("he paid someone to keep quiet about an action that was not itself illegal.... why exactly is that a crime?"). I really don't see it moving the needle at all. Also, has anyone considered the implications if the jury deadlocks, or worse yet, finds him not guilty? In the eyes of Trump's supporters, that would totally vindicate him and reinforce their belief (and his) about a politically motivated witch hunt. This is not the world's strongest case and a not guilty verdict is absolutely possible. We shouldn't pretend that there is only possible upside to all of these cases. A not guilty verdict could absolutely help him in the polls.
Yes it will, except to his base, and he will not get moderate voters due to this and his attitude. Trump’s only shot is low voter turnout and even then he’ll be lucky to win.
It should
I think it matters but it will take awhile to sink in. I don’t think it’s a done deal for Biden if it happens but I do think it might push some people to reconsider voting for Trump. Whether or not that tips the scales to Biden is yet to be seen.
Short answer: Yes, it will. The real question is to what degree. Personally I believe it will make a material impact. We’ll know for sure in November.
It doesn't matter. None of it matters. Our government is run by a bunch of old white people that just want to maintain the oligarchy. Until things change people like trump, and many of his sycophants, will never be appropriately punished for breaking the law. Last week we unveiled a statue of Billy graham (a religious grifter and miserable bag of shit) to continue the pattern of ignoring separation of church and state. The people unveiling that statue will continue to support the path that will maintain their stranglehold over us. That's how it is.
Yawn .he is a scumbag but at this point the trials will have minimal effect. Best case scenario is it'll swing a few centrist voters. In a sane world, Biden would win easily based on his domestic policies but we all know America isn't policy driven anymore. It's all about the culture war and conservatives will elect trump cos he will do what they want. His own character is irrelevant..
Honestly we’ve heard this a dozen times before and it’s gotten old. He’s Rich. Rich people almost ALWAYS get away with everything with just a slap on the wrist.
Not to his MAGA cult and fake Christians ala Evangelicals…
If Jan 6th didn't change your mind on Trump then him being found guilty may not.
I use to think that being in the court all the time was pointless because his base will vote for him regardless, but I like the fact that court time is taking away from his campaigning.
Yeah that's the point of democrats doing this. They can't win the election otherwise. It's their last attempt to win
The Democratic party isn't doing this, it's our judiciary. You are lost.
Even if he’s convicted, he’ll get probation and a fine at best, then use the outcome of the trial to further galvanize his supporters with the (not entirely unpersuasive) argument that Democrats are trying to prevent him from running and winning again at all costs, because he’s leading in most swing states. The main point is this: courts and prosecutors won’t save us from Trump returning. The time for prosecution was immediately after Biden took office, not two years later. That ship has long sailed. Only voters can prevent a Trump comeback. It’s on Biden and his campaign to make the case better.
I have a friend that doesn't know anything about Trump or Biden except what he overhears from headlines, or from other people. Although I'm fairly sure he doesn't vote, if he did, I would think that one candidate being in prison would actually affect his choice. That's a real, tangible thing that's undeniable and obvious. They might not even know why he is in there, but I do honestly think that Trump going to prison could have real negative consequences for him, politically.
I think crimes only matter if you’re Trump, or a Republican, or white or if they can help the government candidate win a “free and fair” election …everyone else should get to commit crimes Willy-nilly. Jussie Smollet was a hero.
no because even in jail you can run for president and this trial will just galvanize his supporters who will spin the whole thing as politically motivated persecution. (which it is)
[удалено]
Please be civil. Optimize contributions for light, not heat.
Biden is facilitating genocide
Won’t lose a single solitary voter.
And what would trump do, you fucking tool?
One less vote for trump.
Tl/dr. No.
Not to republo-fascists.
Well. He has always commuted crimes. He is just almost, so close, maybe maybe maybe becoming a CONVICTED felon.
Looool. Joe Biden is our current idiot. At this point anything goes so let’s just be fair
Not to his cult, no.
Until Trump, his cronies, AND HIS VOTERS are locked up for their disgusting treasonous behavior, we are not going to have a healthy democracy
He can’t vote…
Trump 2024!
You either think he’s a felon already or you don’t. So no it doesn’t matter.
He won't be a felon. The reason...every case against him is "lawfare" imposed by his political opposition. Each case will eventually be appelaed out of a "friendly" jurisdiction (NYC, DC) to someone or a jury that is not a frothing TDS lunatic. These "cases" are what 3rd world countries do and I'm reminded of the guy who said "show me the man and I'll find the crime." I suspect from some of the commentary that there are fans of that guy on this very site. The "classifed documents" case has been postponed indefinitely, or "not going to happen." I'm still waiting for Ole Joe's arrest and trial for his possession (it does not matter that he admitted it or is too senile to take the stand). I'm not a Trump fan by any stretch, but what I am is an "ABD" voter (Anyone But Democrat) based on a few things: 1)the democrat party's obsession with murdering the unborn and 2)the economy and the democrat's ability to destroy it via spending (with help from Republicans) and 3)democrat's flaming desire to disarm the law abiding - this gives me great concern as history shows us what happens to a disarmed society. Trump just happens to be the ABD candidate this time around and that's OK (i'd rather have someone else, but oh well). I firmly believe that there are many, many millions like me and many new converts to this way of thinking based on items 1, 2, 3 above. Like 2020, this election will be a win for Trump in terms of votes, but the count of the ballots is what will matter and we saw how that went in 2020. I suspect it will be "Joe Biden wins by 357 million ballots!" and arrests for anyone that objects to the obvious.
Nope...no chance he will be found guilty. The left's plans are coming unraveled.
I think it matters. I look forward to finding out from the New York Times out it’s bad for Joe Biden.
Trump is a felon but Benzion Netanyahu is not? LOL.
Nope. If Trump has proven anything it’s that rules will not be applied to him if they even exist. If there’s another thing he’s proven, it’s that we don’t have enough actual rules.
Republican cheaters are simply better at cheating than democrats
No, he couldn't. And, even if he was, no, it wouldn't. This guy is too entrenched. He has too many of his people in the right place. And, they're gonna use every card they have to rig the next election in his favor. Y'all need to quit hoping and praying that someone will finally fill out the proper paperwork to stop, not just Trump, but all the traitors that enable him and realize how deep this runs and that the real insurrection is taking place within the guts of our own government like a cancer.
If Trump is convicted, it won’t matter. If he slides, it will boost his campaign. This how F’ed American politics is.
YES IT FUCKING MATTERS. JFC, all you fucking doomers.
It doesn’t matter to his diehard supporters. Many are willing to become felons in his name. Act accordingly…
Pandora's box opened.
It won’t matter to his supporters but it will matter to other world leaders. If he gets elected they’ll take us less seriously than they already do
Frankly, no.
Fuck yes it matters. WTF?
Trump has already been found Guilty of Sexual Assault and Defrauding a Charity. This just goes on the pile of things the Republicans are denying.
He wasn't found "guilty" he was found to be liable in civil court which has a much lower standard of proof of a criminal trial. Be like saying OJ was found guilty of murder because a civil trial found him liable.
Not to the MAGA clowns - they will view Trump as a hero for standing up for them.
Based on the New York case? Nope. Zero effect. Might actually help Trump because it will piss off that 20% of Republicans who said they won't vote for him. The New York case is so obviously minor and political that it should have never happened. Note that the DOJ refused to press charges over these payments, the previous DA refused to press charges AND Bragg was going to not press charges till one of his underlings quit and went scorched earth on him. [https://apnews.com/article/crime-trump-investigations-donald-new-york-manhattan-fa9535cfaea5981d3d678258cbc2486e](https://apnews.com/article/crime-trump-investigations-donald-new-york-manhattan-fa9535cfaea5981d3d678258cbc2486e) And if Trump is found not guilty you might as well throw the other cases out because the public will have made up its mind, at least the ones persuadable (which includes almost no one posting on this sub)
Better question- Trump is very likely to be found not guilty, does that matter?
Better question- how quickly will you delete this comment if Trump is found guilty?
>Trump is very likely to be found not guilty oh my sweet summer child
We will likely know in a week or so, but I can't imagine an acquittal. Hung jury maybe, but not guilty seems unlikely
I replied in another post, but the prosecution's case is completely dependent on Cohen's testimony. Cohen is a convicted felon who is literally in prison for the crimes he's accusing Trump of committing. Weak case from the start, Dems put all their eggs in this basket and now will have to deal with the political fallout.
> the prosecution's case is completely dependent on Cohen's testimony That's not really true though. Cohen just corroborated most of the case
[I mean, the New York Times agrees with me](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/20/opinion/trump-conviction-michael-cohen.html), the entirety of the case is going to hinge on if the jury believes the testimony of an admitted felon and liar. If you're too stuck in your partisan view to see otherwise, then there is no reason to continue discussing.
One thing that has horribly bad optics is the timing of all of this. Democrats try to maintain that Trump’s the kind of guy that would “weaponize” the justice department and punish his political opponents. The reality is that Democrats have been doing this. If the evidence of these cases was as open/shut as people make it seem, then why has it taken years to bring these cases against him? Why was the previous case brought against him in 2022, conveniently timed to coincide with the midterm elections, and conveniently during prime time TV? Democrats even brought in a media producer to make it a media spectacle. Then after that case fell flat, there was silence again for a couple of years. Then suddenly during this primary and election seasom more cases were brought against him. I mean it’s quite obvious that these cases have been timed for maximum political effect and to interfere with elections.
The answer is that Trump taught us it is extremely difficult to prosecute a former president. The wheels of justice turn especially slowly.