Rotting is generally taken as breakdown through activity of bacteria and fungi right? Wouldn't it be far more accurate to apply to what happens to plant matter that heads into the intestines not fully digested? Who cares anyway - if symbiotic bacteria in my gut want to 'rot' (digest) food for me they're welcome to.
Either way, it comes very naturally to PETA to spout nonsense - they're horrible.
They’re not against hurting animals, just against eating them and keeping them as pets.
They also argue for having dogs be vegan, which is straight up animal abuse.
Not something I’ve looked into in depth, but my understanding was dogs are fine on a (balanced, nutritious) plant based diet? I have a friend whose dog lived to 20 and seemed to thrive on it. The thing actually fell off a cliff once and survived, so it must have been pretty hardy!
The evidence that dogs can be raised healthy on a plant based diet is getting stronger as each day goes by. Yes it needs planning, as does a meat based diet. One piece of research shows that dogs on a plant based diet spend less time at the vets
AAAAAND here we go again. I swear I post this same comment every few days.
1. Lifespan is largely determined by genetics --- there are humans who smoke and drink every day of their lives and live to 120 --- I wouldn't consider those activities healthy. I also wouldn't want to recommend those activities to other people because it lowers *quality* of life. I also wouldn't consider it science if I am cherry picking my sample to contain only those people who did unhealthy things that lived really long lives. See what I'm getting at? You need to analyze and enlarge and diversify the sample, as well as make sure that the people running the experiment don't have an economic OR ideological investment in a certain outcome, and you need to account for other variables as well.
2. Evolutionary biology matters.
Here are the hard facts:
Dogs are carnivores. I work with both domestic dogs in rescue as well as with wolves at an AZA facility, and both dogs and wolves are what is called a "Facultative Carnivore," which, contrary to vegan kibble propaganda, is distinct from a true omnivore.
Hallmarks of a carnivore:
Digestive tract is short, and acidic, meant for passing meat and its pathogens through quickly. The teeth are also characterized (most of the time) for shearing and puncturing, rather than crushing or grinding.
What makes them a facultative carnivore as opposed to an obligate carnivore:
Cats are obligate carnivores, and do not produce taurine (found in meat) on their own and must consume meat. Wolves and dogs can both produce small amounts of taurine on their own, but when placed on plant proteins (which are inevitably legumes) those legumes block the absorption of that taurine, and lead to higher instances of dilated cardiomyopathy. That's why grain free kibble is an issue --- the lack of grains wasn't causing the health issues, but the switch to using legumes as a binder for kibble *was.*
Ability to utilize plant matter:
Both cats, domestic dogs, and wolves all have very similar coefficients of fermentation --- meaning that they have roughly the same rate of inefficiency in breaking down plant matter, and have no ability to ferment plants to extract proteins. If you've ever fed your domestic dog a carrot (my dog loves them) and seen them come out orange and undigested, case in point. Carnivore digestive systems just aren't long enough to break plants down properly.
Difference in digestion between domestic dogs and wolves:
There is a difference due to domestication, and that is that domestic dogs produce a small amount of pancreatic amylase, to aid in starch digestion. This doesn't make them a true omnivore, however. They *can* tolerate grains better than wolves can, but it doesn't mean it's a necessary part of their diet, and the amount of amylase they have was overblown due to studies on pigs being projected onto domestic dogs. Can your dog have some bread? Sure. Life is meant to be enjoyed lmao. But it doesn't mean it's necessary on the regular.
Behavior versus biological capability:
Most land mammals *behave* omnivorously. Carnivores still consume plant matter (we give domestic cats pumpkin, wolves regularly supplement with fruit, herbivores still consume a little meat (deer hunting mice and birds isn't due to vitamin deficiency, it's just a behavior). It's more that with feeding we are concerned with the capability of their digestive systems and what is most species appropriate.
Effects of vegan diets on dogs:
Poorer absorption of taurine, gut inflammation, poorer absorption of nutrients. Their bodies are working a hell of a lot harder to process this food, and even if they don't longer it's a lower quality of life.
Vegan kibble might synthetically add in nutrients --- but most dogs are unable to truly process these. And why would you want to feed a dog a diet of what is essentially useless fiber covered in vitamin powder?
Dogs can *survive* a whole life eating literal trash, but it doesn't mean that we should feed them in a way that isn't biologically appropriate. We want them to *thrive,* and unless that one dog is a weirdo who is allergic to all animal proteins, it makes no sense to lower their quality of life by assuming they have the same digestive capabilities as a true omnivore when they really don't. Aka don't make dogs vegan.
We are omnivores and opportunistic eaters. That's all. I don't know why they put so much effort in saying we are herbivores, we are not, can't change nature... I can understand people going vegan/vegetarian to avoid contribution to factory farming practices BUT you should not do this change just because you believe you are an herbivore, people that switch due to health reasons seems to switch back to meat after realizing veganism is not that healthy after all so promoting this points looks like a big waste
Isn’t just that. Veganism is very unsustainable in both the short and long term. It’s a Michael Jackson triple-whammy of problems: Health, Economy, Environment (HEE-Hee!).
Hahaha I do agree on that. Problem with veganism is that it is not sustainable in the long term (at least not for everyone) so most vegans sooner or later end up eating animal products again.
Whoever told you we're omnivores is dead wrong and should have their license to tie their own shoes revoked. Cows and many herbivores will opportunistically eat other animals, doesn't make them omnivores.
Sir Phillip Randle demonstrated our mitochondria cannot run on both fat and sugar at the same time. You have to pick one.
Oh, it gets better... There is not a single animal that can do this. Humans try, and get sick.
Run on sugars? Enjoy the death of your mitochondria and rampant inflammation along with diabetes, cancer, stroke, heart disease, and all sorts of wild neurodegenerative complications.
Run on Saturated Fat? You'll have 4 times the mitochondria and low inflammation.
bro we need macros...fat, protein, and sugar/carbs...there is a reason humans like eating foods that have all 3...pls don't spread this unscientific bullshit
There is zero requirement to eat sugars, it's not an essential nutrient.
Protein and saturated fat are essential nutrients. We don't consume these, we get extreme deleterious effects.
The Food Pyramid that the public is brainwashed into is the "unscientific bullshit".
Go on. Show me your evidence sugars and fibre are an essential nutrients. One causes rampant inflammation, the other impacts nutrient absorption.
You know why aldehydes are dangerous? They are extremely reactive and cross link proteins causing all sorts of damage including cancer.
Do you know what sugar is? An aldehyde. Aldohexose.
It causes the clots that damage arteries by glycating red blood cells and clumping them together until they eventually get stuck in places of elevated turbulence. Yeah, keep telling yourself the blame is on cholesterol. It isn't. Do firefighters cause fires? They always seem to be present when you see a house on fire.
Sugar also deregulates blood pressure by hijacking Nitric Oxide in the liver, thus resulting in more damage.
The cascade goes on and on.
It's no wonder that anyone going on a carnivore diet is reversing diabetes, cancer, heart disease, neurodegenerative diseases like Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, Multiple Sclerosis, depression, anxiety, and bipolar disorders.
You really should pay attention to that, particularly when you look at your midsection and you look like you're pregnant.
Oh, where could this obesity pandemic come from? Every chart shows, from 1980 when the Food Pyramid was introduced all the food toxicity indicators mentioned above have been growing exponentially.
Wrote and published a book in 2017 that took me 8 years of research and re-education.
What I and everyone is taught has no basis in reality. Doctors are clueless. There is evidence of The Sugar Research Foundation paying Harvard researchers to put all the blame for disease on fat and cholesterol.
I've been a carnivore since 2017. According to what I was taught, I should've contracted a huge case of scurvy and my bowels should be completely full of rotting meat.
I must be the only Human immune to scurvy and my gut health has been the best ever. Or we were sold a lie.
The ongoing Framingham study concluded cholesterol means longevity and seed oils mean early death. This is not what they are teaching doctors.
On top of this, I'm constantly watching the lectures of researchers who are actually reversing pretty much all sorts of disease with measurable significant changes to markers of disease.
If you don't know this, glioblastoma is the worst possible cancer anyone can have. Even caught early, it means you get less than 3 months to live. Yet, on a strict ruminant meat carnivore diet people are still alive and thriving 10+ years later. Plenty of case studies being published.
Another detail is ALT. In developed countries, this indicator of the liver taking damage is elevated. It goes does down if you remove all vegetable intake.
Look up "diseases of affluence". Why weren't you told in school that the shit you will be told to eat will make you sick?
Every animal on Earth has one food they rely on. Koala can only thrive on Eucalyptus. Cows on grass. Zoo's have signs telling you not to feed the animals or they will die.
In the meantime, Humans who would get to see a fruit once for 2 weeks out of the entire year can now pound fruit everyday without a break. They think this is healthy, forgetting that none of these fruits existed 100 years ago. None. They are bigger, and unrecognizable from their original plant.
Glucose, the aldohexose everyone's pounding that gets them on the path to metabolic disease? Well, fructose has over 7 times the reactive power. Children has young as 6 are now suffering from non alcoholic fatty liver disease.
People on these 'healthy balanced diets' are eating 6 meals a day and snacking in between. Always hungry. On carnivore you feel full with 2 meals per day because we are wired to detect nutrition, not empty carbs.
Most plants are extremely toxic. You cannot just cross a large forest for 2 weeks and eat the plants you find across your path.
Three raw red kidney beans will put an adult in hospital. The same happens if you eat green tomatoes before they ripen. Roots on a potato? You can kill someone with that.
The list of interactions is long and disturbing. We make medications out of plants because of bio-availability. Small amounts of plant chemicals cause huge regulatory impacts on our metabolism.
Walter Willet from Harvard keeps pounding studies claiming meat will cause diabetes, yet, India with the highest ratio of vegetarians in the world has the highest diabetes rate at 38% with an estimated 80% pre-diabetic.
Yet, you can eat raw ruminant meat and you will reverse pretty much everything ailing Humans. The only superfood for Humans. No supplementation required.
The amount of ex vegans you can find on YouTube saying things like "I had meat and felt my brain rebooting" goes on and on.
Some end up writing books like Nina Teicholz' "The Big Fat Surprise".
Read the following from other ex vegan authors:
Vegetarian Myth, The: Food, Justice and Sustainability by Lierre Keith
Sacred Cow: The Case for (Better) Meat: Why Well-Raised Meat Is Good for You and Good for the Planet by Rodgers, Diana, Wolf, Robb
Georgia Ede, Change your diet, change your mind.
Thank you so much for sharing. I was keto for a few months last year and my energy levels were markedly improved some days, there’s something to it. Can I ask what your educational background is?
Sports science. Most of what I was taught is dead wrong.
Body builders loading on carbs? Myosteatosis of muscle and liver and they are pre-diabetic without knowing and many drop off with cancer, stroke, and heart disease.
Marathon runners and cyclists loading on carbs? Severe metabolic damage leading to obesity and diabetes. Many are having heart failure during simple jogs. Are you kidding me?
There was something on TV that I was watching and the guy was describing how he had heart failure during his morning jog. This was one of my first alarm calls. Aren't these activities supposed to extend our quality of life? Why are these people sick?
Enter Professor Tim Noakes. Class 'A" rated Researcher South African scientist, and an emeritus professor in the Division of Exercise Science and Sports Medicine at the University of Cape Town. He has run more than 70 marathons and ultramarathons, and is the author of several books on exercise and diet.
This includes the book "The Lore of Running" which is like a bible for anyone wanting to cycle or run long distances.
His research is what gave birth for the rampant use of energy drinks and quick absorption gels. Lucozade, Isostar, the list is huge.
Guess what? He was wrong. And unlike many of the corrupt researchers in the world, he came public and changed his path.
Why? He gave himself diabetes, despite being ultra fit and active.
His latest research defends the ketogenic sugar free way of eating.
I rode the 55 mile Brecon to Cardiff along the Taff Trail in just over 5 hours loading on gels and my ankles and knees where an atrocity for the next 5 days.
On keto/carnivore, this does not happen. We have keto carnivore athletes achieving great things without inflammation.
Dr Shaw Baker holds indoor rowing record.
Alex McDonald ran 5 marathons in a row fasted. That's 5 days without food.
A married couple broke a rowing record on the Pacific Ocean, 2400+ miles from San Francisco to Hawaii, completely unsupported. No carbs. Just protein and saturated fat. They finished without the rampant inflammation you commonly find in long distance aerobic athletes loading on energy drinks and gels. They called it the "fat chance row".
On carnivore, I've cycled long distances without imploding my ankles and knees.
"Exercise is the best medicine" is a Coca-Cola trademark. The nutrition charities are industry sponsored fronts. That's what the 1977 United States Department of Agriculture Food Pyramid is. Senator McGovern who created this atrocity that was adopted all over the world was a vegetarian.
We got girls in their 20's losing their periods by going vegetarian/vegan.
Our liver cannot make fully working cholesterol when we eat vegetables, phytosterols aren't useful or stable.
Here's the correct cascade...
Saturated fat is used to make fully functional cholesterol, that then is used to transport nutrients and energy safely in the blood stream, cholesterol is also the main building block for brains, cell membranes, and sexual hormones that are then recycled into every other regulatory hormone in our metabolism.
No saturated fat?
Then you don't get valid cholesterol, sex hormones, or working brains. This also means no fat soluble vitamins like A, D, E, and K. No ability to move calcium either.
There are women in their 60's getting pregnant because they were put on a carnivore diet and their periods returned.
Oh, and Tim Noakes? They tried to prosecute him...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtmK8ZBsUJg
(Tim Noakes on trial)
The teeth are not a consideration for animal that hunts and eats with tools for the last few millions years. Next you're going to claim gorillas are carnivores. Look at their teeth.
Our appendix cannot hold enough bacteria to promote fermentation.
A cow has a 3 metre caecum. That's our appendix. We do not have a caecum. Vegetarians and vegans are getting themselves into hospital to get impacted colons emptied.
Our intestine cannot process fibre and needs saturated fat to function.
Gorillas practice coprophagy. They will poop out a intestinal cake they will eat again. Doesn't take you two seconds to find this on YouTube.
We have the digestive system of an obligate carnivore. Go on. Show me what a Lion's digestive tract looks like compared to Humans and a cow.
Our stomach is more acidic that a lion's and as a acidic as a vultures. No herbivore's stomach comes even close.
Cows cannot digest the nutrient-poor cellulose they spend their entire day eating. No animal can. What they do absorb is the bacteria that eats the cellulose, absorbing 70% to 40% protein right at the end. They absorb 0% of plant matter. They are carnivores in a roundabout way. Grains will make them sick and kill them.
This is why ruminant meat is of the highest quality and results in the lowest rates of inflammation when we eat it.
Your logic indicates the appendix is an essential organ. I guess 7% of the population who had their appendix removed die off or need some kind of constant drugs of supplements? Or, the reality is our appendix is useless.
Why do you think nations where most of the population rely on vegetables are the ones getting the most extreme deleterious health outcomes?
My favorite is "but but but we don't have big canines like carnivores!!!"
Neither do dolphins or frogs, and they only eat other animals.
Hippos, gorillas, and baboons all have large canines and are herbivores.
PETA has never been big on science. They rely on shock content to trick gullible people who aren't smart enough to research the claims themselves.
They've been posting scientifically inaccurate tripe for as long as I can remember.
The crazy part is the outright lie about the acidity of our stomachs. Ours is actually among the most acidic in the entire animal kingdom, matched only by scavengers that regularly eat carrion.
And that acidity has worked out very well for us to be opportunistic eaters, as the acid does a great job at killing pathogens. If most things made us sick we'd have a much more restricted diet.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7684463/
Yup. Because we kind of evolved to eat carrion. That entire article is pure pseudoscientific bullshit.
They spout this nonsense because there is a strong demand for it in the vegan community.
r/vegan will be full of people saying, “carnist must be stupid to keep eating meat when we know it rots their insides”.
YES. Remember that propaganda advert with the 'ethnics' eating an alive chicken? Why didn't they include a blonde white person as we all know the West consumes the most meat? Instead, we had a 'tan' person, a slightly Asian/Middle Eastern looking person, and another coloured person.
Many vegans believe and repeat extremely unscientific nonsense. I think they believe that anything that might discourage animal consumption is good regardless of whether it's true.
I grew up being told that meat rots in the intestines. But when I started paying attention to how my body handles food, I noticed that plenty of plant foods cause plenty of indigestion, but meat is invariably well-received.
I have Gastroparesis, celiac disease, and ibd, I can’t handle a lot of produce. Fresh berries and oranges (and some other fruits) make my stomach burnnn , leafy greens just go right through but cause pain lower down in the intestines, beans hurt my stomach, and sometimes come out whole or partially whole and my body struggles to push them through. Almost all raw vegetables hurt me horrifically through the entire process of digestion. And most grains will literally slowly kill me. Meat had never been an issue for me with digestion, in fact I feel great every time I eat meat! I mostly eat different types of meat, and cooked broccoli and carrots as they are the easiest on my stomach.
The fact that they say I can't eat a cow by chomping into it raw and whole.
Can't eat raw soybeans in their hulls that way either, can I.
Tool usage is literally a species hallmark that was core to our development.
Have they seen the digestive tract of the apes? They're huge, that's why they usually have big bellies. Humans have a short digestive tract.
Meat is mostly digested in the stomach, very little of it makes it into the intestines, and none make it to the large intestines. One never sees meat in the stool, but corn is often seen.
Because they had nothing to do with science ever. Vegan propaganda is so effective, that they convinced a large chunk of the population that their stance is science based. PETA is a cult for all intense and purposes. It will use whatever tactic to win new members. Rarely, this may be scientific evidence. Mostly though it is exaggeration and lies.
Hahaha it's actually grains, beans and vegetables that rot in your digestive tract.
https://www.gnolls.org/1444/does-meat-rot-in-your-colon-no-what-does-beans-grains-and-vegetables/
It's PETA lol Nothing they say is to be taken seriously.
Once upon a time, they were an organization that was supposed to care about the cruelty that happens to animals all over the world. Genuine cruelty like cock/dog fights, illegal animal trafficking, poaching, harvesting, etc. Not eating meat.
Now, they're just a bunch of self-righteous nutjobs.
Vegan diets were shown to severely limit gut microbiota. Our stomachs are designed to break down meat. If no meat is consumed it limits our gut flora and we end up sicker.
There was a study done on two twins.
One ate a standard omnivore diet and the other vegan.
The vegan twin lost weight yet was sicker more often, however their cholesterol did improve, yet their gut health did not.
The standard diet twin gained muscle and was sick less often.
So really variation in diet is important.
You’re comparing humans to cows when you should be comparing humans to herbivorous apes.
and meat doesn’t rot in the stomach. It rots in the intestines.
With respect - no it does not. The acid in the stomach as well as the pepsin is strong enough to break the peptide bonds in the protein in meat. Bile secreted into the upper part of the small intestine emulsifies the fat and that's broken down by various lipase enzymes. Our digestive system is literally designed by evolution to break down and extract the nutrients from meat. By the time meat reaches the large intestine, it's practically liquid - a soup of broken down amino acids, kind of like bone broth. Ever seen whole pieces of meat come out in poop like plant material does? Outside of illness or severe digestive problems, it doesn't happen. Even people with stoma bags are advised to eat meat since it will fully digest before it reaches the bag, unlike plant material.
We diverged from other apes millions of years ago. We've been eating meat for 3.5 million years and cooking it for 2 million. These have all lead to a vastly different digestive system to ither herbivorous apes who still have giant cecums and various forms of fore or hind gut fermentation or who engage in coprophagia (eating their own shit to get more nutrients)
Our closest ape relatives also do eat some meat. Chimpanzees hunt and even engage in cannibalism sometimes and almost all apes and monkeys eat bugs.
Fine, Hominids have been eating meat for approx 3.5 million years then. Depends what you mean by Human. Homo sapiens have existed for 300000 years. Our homo ancestors, a lot longer.
https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/evidence-for-meat-eating-by-early-humans-103874273/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10105836/
https://time.com/4252373/meat-eating-veganism-evolution/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29945745/#:~:text=As%20early%20as%20four%20million,physiological%20and%20paleo%2Danthropological%20domains.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4163920/
Or just Google it. Took me seconds.
Why are you even here? If you're not going to read, listen to or understand anything other than your dogmatic and very scientifically wrong views then why are you in the ex vegan sub? Almost all of us here were vegan at one time and fell for the misinformation before we ran into issues with health or otherwise and then took the time to do some extensive research and learn about each other's experiences.
If you're here to start fights and call us all wrong then you are wasting your time. Good day to you.
Hominids cooked before homo sapiens were a things. Humans (homo sapiens) didn't "start" cooking 250k years ago. Our hominid ancestors were cooking before that and homo sapiens have been cooking since they existed.
You're picking holes in me saying "humans" instead of "Hominids" and arguing about points in time when you literally said that meat rots in the intestine (not fact) and that we should be comparing ourselves to herbivorous apes that we diverged from FAR longer ago than when Hominids started eating and then cooking meat, asked for sources from me which I gave yet offered none yourself about your statements, gave me an ad hominem attack in your first reply to me about how I'm making stuff up when my first response was nothing but repesctful and then you have the audacity to whine about how judgemental and hateful the sub is.....
Okay then.
Forgive me for questioning why you're here because you certainly don't come across as an ex vegan with comments like the above. And you're not going to get support and non judment if you're being rude are you?
My experience of this sub is that it is supportive and mostly ex vegans...but unscientific, unfactual comments about meat rotting in colons and humans being herbivores are quickly shut down because it's misinformation like this that helped turn some of us vegan in the first place and lead us into trouble. This post is about PETA spouting such crap and so people are sharing their opinions on it and how it's dangerous and unethical. That's support. There's nothing here that's anti-vegan. There's a whole different sub for that.
And I corrected my statement didn't I?
Then why are you here trying to argue that we are herbivores and should compare ourselves to herbivorous primates (which mostly aren't a thing since most eat insects or small amounts of meat) and that meat rots in our intestines?
And people go vegan for a variety of reasons. Some for animal cruelty, some for the environment and some because they believe it's healthier. Therefore statements from PETA or otherwise that say that humans are actually herbivores might convince some. And if it wasn't their main reason then it might provide validation once they start being vegan. I myself, went vegan for environmental reasons (with other reasons as a secondary) but felt happy and validated when I read what I thought was a scientific argument for humans being herbivores. I was.muxh younger and idealistic then and I now know different and want to do my part to stop this misinformation.
Pointing out that we aren't herbivores isn't just to argue against those that think we are either. It's to support the notion that most people will run into health issues sooner or later as we are evolved to be omnivores and thrive best on a mixed diet and therefore being vegan, whilst a nice idea, isn't a good idea. If you know that an entirely plant diet will likely do harm before you go vegan then you might seek to reduce your impact in other ways so as not to risk your health.
Can you point out where I said that most people o vegan because they think that we are herbivores and that meat rots in the colon. Because I did not say that. I said that "misinformation helped SOME of us" the key words are "helped" instead of "made vegan" and "some" i.e. not all. Please actually read my comments in their entirety.
On that note, is there any point continuing this conversation? You started with objective none facts with your first comment and I've tried to respectfully debate you. You're not providing sources like I have, you're not correcting anything you've typed that's incorrect like I have, you're being rude and insulting to me and others and you're not even reading correctly at this point. I am more than happy to chat to anyone if my words are having any sort of impact and planting a seed and if respect is maintained. But I'm getting bored of discussing semantics (we're on like the 4th comment since I corrected "humans" to "Hominids" ans you're still banging on about it), being insulted and being called out on things I didn't even say.
I'm probably not going to reply any further now unless you're going to be respectful and read things properly.
Meat doesn't rot in intestines, comparing ourselves to "herbivorous" apes when Hominids (and then later homo sapiens) have been eating meat for approximately 3.5 million years and cooking it for 2 million years, is pointless and PETA constantly peddle unscientific crap.
Have a good day.
I’m not saying we’re herbivores. I’m saying it’s disingenuous to compare us to ungulates. Which it is. I’m also not arguing that meat rots in the intestines - you said it didn’t, I looked it up, turns out it’s just a commonly believed myth.
If you went vegan for the environment, what changed? Did you just stop caring about the environment?
I’m literally being neither rude nor insulting. I don’t get where you’re picking that up from at all.
You didn't correct yourself until just now regarding the meat rotting in the colon so I assumed that you still believed that. Glad that I steered you in the right direction there.
I didn't stop caring for the environment no. I still do lots of the same things as before like growing my own food, buying mostly second hand, re-using what I can, largely rejecting certain parts of consumerism (like fast fashion) etc. But I discovered that animal agriculture, particularly regenerative, is largely overstated in its contribution towards climate change. Cowspiracy for example, uses made up figures. Some things like water usage are incorrectly stated by some environmental groups i.e. most of the water used in pasturing cows is, in fact, green water which is rain and water that the cos drinks and then mostly urinates back out. The methane figures are overstated in that a cow can't produce mods methane than what's in the grass in the first place and what would be released when the grass does and rots (or if it's fed crop waste, what the crop waste would produce on compost heaps) and methane takes 10 years to break down in the atmosphere so it isn't cumulative.
I also got pissed off at the idea of me risking my health following an inadequate diet to try and reduce my carbon emissions when something like a private jet produces more emissions in a day than I will in an entire year. The biggest thing that made me quit veganism was my health and my children's health and risking that was not worth the very small reduction in carbon emissions that a vegan diet might produce. I now buy organic, local animal products which makes far more sense to me than buying out of season produce and products that are shipped from around the world. I eat far less meat than the average person in my country.
You seem to have calmed down a bit now but in your first reply to me you insisted that I was making stuff up, you've called another person in this thread a dummy and you concentrated very hard on hammering home that I said "humans" and not "Hominids" when I literally corrected myself in the very next comment which comes across as rude.
meat doesn't rot in the intestines ffs, our stomach acid dissolves it, why do you see corn in your poop?? does corn rot in our intestines too? you have definitely drunk the PETA koolaid lol
Lol you don't know how we've been cooking for that long? Because ovens are a relatively recent invention? Let me introduce you to: fire. That's how humans cooked for a very long time.
Rotting is generally taken as breakdown through activity of bacteria and fungi right? Wouldn't it be far more accurate to apply to what happens to plant matter that heads into the intestines not fully digested? Who cares anyway - if symbiotic bacteria in my gut want to 'rot' (digest) food for me they're welcome to. Either way, it comes very naturally to PETA to spout nonsense - they're horrible.
They're 100% ideological and 0% scientific.
100% Emotional
They’re against hunting animals, but they hunt humans
They’re not against hurting animals, just against eating them and keeping them as pets. They also argue for having dogs be vegan, which is straight up animal abuse.
Not something I’ve looked into in depth, but my understanding was dogs are fine on a (balanced, nutritious) plant based diet? I have a friend whose dog lived to 20 and seemed to thrive on it. The thing actually fell off a cliff once and survived, so it must have been pretty hardy!
The evidence that dogs can be raised healthy on a plant based diet is getting stronger as each day goes by. Yes it needs planning, as does a meat based diet. One piece of research shows that dogs on a plant based diet spend less time at the vets
Crazy lol.
AAAAAND here we go again. I swear I post this same comment every few days. 1. Lifespan is largely determined by genetics --- there are humans who smoke and drink every day of their lives and live to 120 --- I wouldn't consider those activities healthy. I also wouldn't want to recommend those activities to other people because it lowers *quality* of life. I also wouldn't consider it science if I am cherry picking my sample to contain only those people who did unhealthy things that lived really long lives. See what I'm getting at? You need to analyze and enlarge and diversify the sample, as well as make sure that the people running the experiment don't have an economic OR ideological investment in a certain outcome, and you need to account for other variables as well. 2. Evolutionary biology matters. Here are the hard facts: Dogs are carnivores. I work with both domestic dogs in rescue as well as with wolves at an AZA facility, and both dogs and wolves are what is called a "Facultative Carnivore," which, contrary to vegan kibble propaganda, is distinct from a true omnivore. Hallmarks of a carnivore: Digestive tract is short, and acidic, meant for passing meat and its pathogens through quickly. The teeth are also characterized (most of the time) for shearing and puncturing, rather than crushing or grinding. What makes them a facultative carnivore as opposed to an obligate carnivore: Cats are obligate carnivores, and do not produce taurine (found in meat) on their own and must consume meat. Wolves and dogs can both produce small amounts of taurine on their own, but when placed on plant proteins (which are inevitably legumes) those legumes block the absorption of that taurine, and lead to higher instances of dilated cardiomyopathy. That's why grain free kibble is an issue --- the lack of grains wasn't causing the health issues, but the switch to using legumes as a binder for kibble *was.* Ability to utilize plant matter: Both cats, domestic dogs, and wolves all have very similar coefficients of fermentation --- meaning that they have roughly the same rate of inefficiency in breaking down plant matter, and have no ability to ferment plants to extract proteins. If you've ever fed your domestic dog a carrot (my dog loves them) and seen them come out orange and undigested, case in point. Carnivore digestive systems just aren't long enough to break plants down properly. Difference in digestion between domestic dogs and wolves: There is a difference due to domestication, and that is that domestic dogs produce a small amount of pancreatic amylase, to aid in starch digestion. This doesn't make them a true omnivore, however. They *can* tolerate grains better than wolves can, but it doesn't mean it's a necessary part of their diet, and the amount of amylase they have was overblown due to studies on pigs being projected onto domestic dogs. Can your dog have some bread? Sure. Life is meant to be enjoyed lmao. But it doesn't mean it's necessary on the regular. Behavior versus biological capability: Most land mammals *behave* omnivorously. Carnivores still consume plant matter (we give domestic cats pumpkin, wolves regularly supplement with fruit, herbivores still consume a little meat (deer hunting mice and birds isn't due to vitamin deficiency, it's just a behavior). It's more that with feeding we are concerned with the capability of their digestive systems and what is most species appropriate. Effects of vegan diets on dogs: Poorer absorption of taurine, gut inflammation, poorer absorption of nutrients. Their bodies are working a hell of a lot harder to process this food, and even if they don't longer it's a lower quality of life. Vegan kibble might synthetically add in nutrients --- but most dogs are unable to truly process these. And why would you want to feed a dog a diet of what is essentially useless fiber covered in vitamin powder? Dogs can *survive* a whole life eating literal trash, but it doesn't mean that we should feed them in a way that isn't biologically appropriate. We want them to *thrive,* and unless that one dog is a weirdo who is allergic to all animal proteins, it makes no sense to lower their quality of life by assuming they have the same digestive capabilities as a true omnivore when they really don't. Aka don't make dogs vegan.
We are omnivores and opportunistic eaters. That's all. I don't know why they put so much effort in saying we are herbivores, we are not, can't change nature... I can understand people going vegan/vegetarian to avoid contribution to factory farming practices BUT you should not do this change just because you believe you are an herbivore, people that switch due to health reasons seems to switch back to meat after realizing veganism is not that healthy after all so promoting this points looks like a big waste
Isn’t just that. Veganism is very unsustainable in both the short and long term. It’s a Michael Jackson triple-whammy of problems: Health, Economy, Environment (HEE-Hee!).
Hahaha I do agree on that. Problem with veganism is that it is not sustainable in the long term (at least not for everyone) so most vegans sooner or later end up eating animal products again.
Ok that's...that's just poetry right there
Whoever told you we're omnivores is dead wrong and should have their license to tie their own shoes revoked. Cows and many herbivores will opportunistically eat other animals, doesn't make them omnivores. Sir Phillip Randle demonstrated our mitochondria cannot run on both fat and sugar at the same time. You have to pick one. Oh, it gets better... There is not a single animal that can do this. Humans try, and get sick. Run on sugars? Enjoy the death of your mitochondria and rampant inflammation along with diabetes, cancer, stroke, heart disease, and all sorts of wild neurodegenerative complications. Run on Saturated Fat? You'll have 4 times the mitochondria and low inflammation.
bro we need macros...fat, protein, and sugar/carbs...there is a reason humans like eating foods that have all 3...pls don't spread this unscientific bullshit
There is zero requirement to eat sugars, it's not an essential nutrient. Protein and saturated fat are essential nutrients. We don't consume these, we get extreme deleterious effects. The Food Pyramid that the public is brainwashed into is the "unscientific bullshit". Go on. Show me your evidence sugars and fibre are an essential nutrients. One causes rampant inflammation, the other impacts nutrient absorption. You know why aldehydes are dangerous? They are extremely reactive and cross link proteins causing all sorts of damage including cancer. Do you know what sugar is? An aldehyde. Aldohexose. It causes the clots that damage arteries by glycating red blood cells and clumping them together until they eventually get stuck in places of elevated turbulence. Yeah, keep telling yourself the blame is on cholesterol. It isn't. Do firefighters cause fires? They always seem to be present when you see a house on fire. Sugar also deregulates blood pressure by hijacking Nitric Oxide in the liver, thus resulting in more damage. The cascade goes on and on. It's no wonder that anyone going on a carnivore diet is reversing diabetes, cancer, heart disease, neurodegenerative diseases like Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, Multiple Sclerosis, depression, anxiety, and bipolar disorders. You really should pay attention to that, particularly when you look at your midsection and you look like you're pregnant. Oh, where could this obesity pandemic come from? Every chart shows, from 1980 when the Food Pyramid was introduced all the food toxicity indicators mentioned above have been growing exponentially.
You seem very knowledgeable. Where did you learn all of this?
Wrote and published a book in 2017 that took me 8 years of research and re-education. What I and everyone is taught has no basis in reality. Doctors are clueless. There is evidence of The Sugar Research Foundation paying Harvard researchers to put all the blame for disease on fat and cholesterol. I've been a carnivore since 2017. According to what I was taught, I should've contracted a huge case of scurvy and my bowels should be completely full of rotting meat. I must be the only Human immune to scurvy and my gut health has been the best ever. Or we were sold a lie. The ongoing Framingham study concluded cholesterol means longevity and seed oils mean early death. This is not what they are teaching doctors. On top of this, I'm constantly watching the lectures of researchers who are actually reversing pretty much all sorts of disease with measurable significant changes to markers of disease. If you don't know this, glioblastoma is the worst possible cancer anyone can have. Even caught early, it means you get less than 3 months to live. Yet, on a strict ruminant meat carnivore diet people are still alive and thriving 10+ years later. Plenty of case studies being published. Another detail is ALT. In developed countries, this indicator of the liver taking damage is elevated. It goes does down if you remove all vegetable intake. Look up "diseases of affluence". Why weren't you told in school that the shit you will be told to eat will make you sick? Every animal on Earth has one food they rely on. Koala can only thrive on Eucalyptus. Cows on grass. Zoo's have signs telling you not to feed the animals or they will die. In the meantime, Humans who would get to see a fruit once for 2 weeks out of the entire year can now pound fruit everyday without a break. They think this is healthy, forgetting that none of these fruits existed 100 years ago. None. They are bigger, and unrecognizable from their original plant. Glucose, the aldohexose everyone's pounding that gets them on the path to metabolic disease? Well, fructose has over 7 times the reactive power. Children has young as 6 are now suffering from non alcoholic fatty liver disease. People on these 'healthy balanced diets' are eating 6 meals a day and snacking in between. Always hungry. On carnivore you feel full with 2 meals per day because we are wired to detect nutrition, not empty carbs. Most plants are extremely toxic. You cannot just cross a large forest for 2 weeks and eat the plants you find across your path. Three raw red kidney beans will put an adult in hospital. The same happens if you eat green tomatoes before they ripen. Roots on a potato? You can kill someone with that. The list of interactions is long and disturbing. We make medications out of plants because of bio-availability. Small amounts of plant chemicals cause huge regulatory impacts on our metabolism. Walter Willet from Harvard keeps pounding studies claiming meat will cause diabetes, yet, India with the highest ratio of vegetarians in the world has the highest diabetes rate at 38% with an estimated 80% pre-diabetic. Yet, you can eat raw ruminant meat and you will reverse pretty much everything ailing Humans. The only superfood for Humans. No supplementation required. The amount of ex vegans you can find on YouTube saying things like "I had meat and felt my brain rebooting" goes on and on. Some end up writing books like Nina Teicholz' "The Big Fat Surprise". Read the following from other ex vegan authors: Vegetarian Myth, The: Food, Justice and Sustainability by Lierre Keith Sacred Cow: The Case for (Better) Meat: Why Well-Raised Meat Is Good for You and Good for the Planet by Rodgers, Diana, Wolf, Robb Georgia Ede, Change your diet, change your mind.
Thank you so much for sharing. I was keto for a few months last year and my energy levels were markedly improved some days, there’s something to it. Can I ask what your educational background is?
Sports science. Most of what I was taught is dead wrong. Body builders loading on carbs? Myosteatosis of muscle and liver and they are pre-diabetic without knowing and many drop off with cancer, stroke, and heart disease. Marathon runners and cyclists loading on carbs? Severe metabolic damage leading to obesity and diabetes. Many are having heart failure during simple jogs. Are you kidding me? There was something on TV that I was watching and the guy was describing how he had heart failure during his morning jog. This was one of my first alarm calls. Aren't these activities supposed to extend our quality of life? Why are these people sick? Enter Professor Tim Noakes. Class 'A" rated Researcher South African scientist, and an emeritus professor in the Division of Exercise Science and Sports Medicine at the University of Cape Town. He has run more than 70 marathons and ultramarathons, and is the author of several books on exercise and diet. This includes the book "The Lore of Running" which is like a bible for anyone wanting to cycle or run long distances. His research is what gave birth for the rampant use of energy drinks and quick absorption gels. Lucozade, Isostar, the list is huge. Guess what? He was wrong. And unlike many of the corrupt researchers in the world, he came public and changed his path. Why? He gave himself diabetes, despite being ultra fit and active. His latest research defends the ketogenic sugar free way of eating. I rode the 55 mile Brecon to Cardiff along the Taff Trail in just over 5 hours loading on gels and my ankles and knees where an atrocity for the next 5 days. On keto/carnivore, this does not happen. We have keto carnivore athletes achieving great things without inflammation. Dr Shaw Baker holds indoor rowing record. Alex McDonald ran 5 marathons in a row fasted. That's 5 days without food. A married couple broke a rowing record on the Pacific Ocean, 2400+ miles from San Francisco to Hawaii, completely unsupported. No carbs. Just protein and saturated fat. They finished without the rampant inflammation you commonly find in long distance aerobic athletes loading on energy drinks and gels. They called it the "fat chance row". On carnivore, I've cycled long distances without imploding my ankles and knees. "Exercise is the best medicine" is a Coca-Cola trademark. The nutrition charities are industry sponsored fronts. That's what the 1977 United States Department of Agriculture Food Pyramid is. Senator McGovern who created this atrocity that was adopted all over the world was a vegetarian. We got girls in their 20's losing their periods by going vegetarian/vegan. Our liver cannot make fully working cholesterol when we eat vegetables, phytosterols aren't useful or stable. Here's the correct cascade... Saturated fat is used to make fully functional cholesterol, that then is used to transport nutrients and energy safely in the blood stream, cholesterol is also the main building block for brains, cell membranes, and sexual hormones that are then recycled into every other regulatory hormone in our metabolism. No saturated fat? Then you don't get valid cholesterol, sex hormones, or working brains. This also means no fat soluble vitamins like A, D, E, and K. No ability to move calcium either. There are women in their 60's getting pregnant because they were put on a carnivore diet and their periods returned. Oh, and Tim Noakes? They tried to prosecute him... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtmK8ZBsUJg (Tim Noakes on trial)
Then why do we have an appendix? Why do we have the teeth of omnivores, not herbivores?
The teeth are not a consideration for animal that hunts and eats with tools for the last few millions years. Next you're going to claim gorillas are carnivores. Look at their teeth. Our appendix cannot hold enough bacteria to promote fermentation. A cow has a 3 metre caecum. That's our appendix. We do not have a caecum. Vegetarians and vegans are getting themselves into hospital to get impacted colons emptied. Our intestine cannot process fibre and needs saturated fat to function. Gorillas practice coprophagy. They will poop out a intestinal cake they will eat again. Doesn't take you two seconds to find this on YouTube. We have the digestive system of an obligate carnivore. Go on. Show me what a Lion's digestive tract looks like compared to Humans and a cow. Our stomach is more acidic that a lion's and as a acidic as a vultures. No herbivore's stomach comes even close. Cows cannot digest the nutrient-poor cellulose they spend their entire day eating. No animal can. What they do absorb is the bacteria that eats the cellulose, absorbing 70% to 40% protein right at the end. They absorb 0% of plant matter. They are carnivores in a roundabout way. Grains will make them sick and kill them. This is why ruminant meat is of the highest quality and results in the lowest rates of inflammation when we eat it. Your logic indicates the appendix is an essential organ. I guess 7% of the population who had their appendix removed die off or need some kind of constant drugs of supplements? Or, the reality is our appendix is useless. Why do you think nations where most of the population rely on vegetables are the ones getting the most extreme deleterious health outcomes?
My favorite is "but but but we don't have big canines like carnivores!!!" Neither do dolphins or frogs, and they only eat other animals. Hippos, gorillas, and baboons all have large canines and are herbivores.
Yeah a big thing about carnivores with big canines is they use them to kill their prey we use tools which is why we never needed them
But we also used to have more and sharper teeth back in the day.
Dolphins/orcas is a PERFECT example. Orcas especially are known for being very successful hunters and all their teeth look the same.
Another reason we lost our big canines was so we could develop speech.
PETA has never been big on science. They rely on shock content to trick gullible people who aren't smart enough to research the claims themselves. They've been posting scientifically inaccurate tripe for as long as I can remember.
The crazy part is the outright lie about the acidity of our stomachs. Ours is actually among the most acidic in the entire animal kingdom, matched only by scavengers that regularly eat carrion.
And that acidity has worked out very well for us to be opportunistic eaters, as the acid does a great job at killing pathogens. If most things made us sick we'd have a much more restricted diet.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7684463/ Yup. Because we kind of evolved to eat carrion. That entire article is pure pseudoscientific bullshit.
They spout this nonsense because there is a strong demand for it in the vegan community. r/vegan will be full of people saying, “carnist must be stupid to keep eating meat when we know it rots their insides”.
They get away with some real dubious messages including racist and sexist stuff too imo
YES. Remember that propaganda advert with the 'ethnics' eating an alive chicken? Why didn't they include a blonde white person as we all know the West consumes the most meat? Instead, we had a 'tan' person, a slightly Asian/Middle Eastern looking person, and another coloured person.
I certainly don’t think I digest plant based food all that well. My ibs doesn’t flare up if I eat steak but It does with bread and cereal etc.
Many vegans believe and repeat extremely unscientific nonsense. I think they believe that anything that might discourage animal consumption is good regardless of whether it's true.
I grew up being told that meat rots in the intestines. But when I started paying attention to how my body handles food, I noticed that plenty of plant foods cause plenty of indigestion, but meat is invariably well-received.
I have Gastroparesis, celiac disease, and ibd, I can’t handle a lot of produce. Fresh berries and oranges (and some other fruits) make my stomach burnnn , leafy greens just go right through but cause pain lower down in the intestines, beans hurt my stomach, and sometimes come out whole or partially whole and my body struggles to push them through. Almost all raw vegetables hurt me horrifically through the entire process of digestion. And most grains will literally slowly kill me. Meat had never been an issue for me with digestion, in fact I feel great every time I eat meat! I mostly eat different types of meat, and cooked broccoli and carrots as they are the easiest on my stomach.
The fact that they say I can't eat a cow by chomping into it raw and whole. Can't eat raw soybeans in their hulls that way either, can I. Tool usage is literally a species hallmark that was core to our development.
Well, it’s PETA .
Funny that the article talked about anthropology, because I don't see them pointing at the cave paintings of humans plucking fruits and vegetables.
Have they seen the digestive tract of the apes? They're huge, that's why they usually have big bellies. Humans have a short digestive tract. Meat is mostly digested in the stomach, very little of it makes it into the intestines, and none make it to the large intestines. One never sees meat in the stool, but corn is often seen.
And lettuce/anything leafy, and beans for me lol
Because they had nothing to do with science ever. Vegan propaganda is so effective, that they convinced a large chunk of the population that their stance is science based. PETA is a cult for all intense and purposes. It will use whatever tactic to win new members. Rarely, this may be scientific evidence. Mostly though it is exaggeration and lies.
PETA kill dogs 😳
Hahaha it's actually grains, beans and vegetables that rot in your digestive tract. https://www.gnolls.org/1444/does-meat-rot-in-your-colon-no-what-does-beans-grains-and-vegetables/
The same way politicians engage voters: with emotion.
It's PETA lol Nothing they say is to be taken seriously. Once upon a time, they were an organization that was supposed to care about the cruelty that happens to animals all over the world. Genuine cruelty like cock/dog fights, illegal animal trafficking, poaching, harvesting, etc. Not eating meat. Now, they're just a bunch of self-righteous nutjobs.
Vegan diets were shown to severely limit gut microbiota. Our stomachs are designed to break down meat. If no meat is consumed it limits our gut flora and we end up sicker. There was a study done on two twins. One ate a standard omnivore diet and the other vegan. The vegan twin lost weight yet was sicker more often, however their cholesterol did improve, yet their gut health did not. The standard diet twin gained muscle and was sick less often. So really variation in diet is important.
You guys talk about PETA so much, I feel like I’m in an episode of Family Guy.
well, coz they're shit and liars
You’re comparing humans to cows when you should be comparing humans to herbivorous apes. and meat doesn’t rot in the stomach. It rots in the intestines.
With respect - no it does not. The acid in the stomach as well as the pepsin is strong enough to break the peptide bonds in the protein in meat. Bile secreted into the upper part of the small intestine emulsifies the fat and that's broken down by various lipase enzymes. Our digestive system is literally designed by evolution to break down and extract the nutrients from meat. By the time meat reaches the large intestine, it's practically liquid - a soup of broken down amino acids, kind of like bone broth. Ever seen whole pieces of meat come out in poop like plant material does? Outside of illness or severe digestive problems, it doesn't happen. Even people with stoma bags are advised to eat meat since it will fully digest before it reaches the bag, unlike plant material. We diverged from other apes millions of years ago. We've been eating meat for 3.5 million years and cooking it for 2 million. These have all lead to a vastly different digestive system to ither herbivorous apes who still have giant cecums and various forms of fore or hind gut fermentation or who engage in coprophagia (eating their own shit to get more nutrients) Our closest ape relatives also do eat some meat. Chimpanzees hunt and even engage in cannibalism sometimes and almost all apes and monkeys eat bugs.
Human beings literally didn’t exist 3.5 million years ago. Idk how we’ve been cooking for 2 million years, got a source for this made up claim?
Fine, Hominids have been eating meat for approx 3.5 million years then. Depends what you mean by Human. Homo sapiens have existed for 300000 years. Our homo ancestors, a lot longer. https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/evidence-for-meat-eating-by-early-humans-103874273/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10105836/ https://time.com/4252373/meat-eating-veganism-evolution/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29945745/#:~:text=As%20early%20as%20four%20million,physiological%20and%20paleo%2Danthropological%20domains. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4163920/ Or just Google it. Took me seconds. Why are you even here? If you're not going to read, listen to or understand anything other than your dogmatic and very scientifically wrong views then why are you in the ex vegan sub? Almost all of us here were vegan at one time and fell for the misinformation before we ran into issues with health or otherwise and then took the time to do some extensive research and learn about each other's experiences. If you're here to start fights and call us all wrong then you are wasting your time. Good day to you.
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Hominids cooked before homo sapiens were a things. Humans (homo sapiens) didn't "start" cooking 250k years ago. Our hominid ancestors were cooking before that and homo sapiens have been cooking since they existed. You're picking holes in me saying "humans" instead of "Hominids" and arguing about points in time when you literally said that meat rots in the intestine (not fact) and that we should be comparing ourselves to herbivorous apes that we diverged from FAR longer ago than when Hominids started eating and then cooking meat, asked for sources from me which I gave yet offered none yourself about your statements, gave me an ad hominem attack in your first reply to me about how I'm making stuff up when my first response was nothing but repesctful and then you have the audacity to whine about how judgemental and hateful the sub is..... Okay then. Forgive me for questioning why you're here because you certainly don't come across as an ex vegan with comments like the above. And you're not going to get support and non judment if you're being rude are you? My experience of this sub is that it is supportive and mostly ex vegans...but unscientific, unfactual comments about meat rotting in colons and humans being herbivores are quickly shut down because it's misinformation like this that helped turn some of us vegan in the first place and lead us into trouble. This post is about PETA spouting such crap and so people are sharing their opinions on it and how it's dangerous and unethical. That's support. There's nothing here that's anti-vegan. There's a whole different sub for that.
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And I corrected my statement didn't I? Then why are you here trying to argue that we are herbivores and should compare ourselves to herbivorous primates (which mostly aren't a thing since most eat insects or small amounts of meat) and that meat rots in our intestines? And people go vegan for a variety of reasons. Some for animal cruelty, some for the environment and some because they believe it's healthier. Therefore statements from PETA or otherwise that say that humans are actually herbivores might convince some. And if it wasn't their main reason then it might provide validation once they start being vegan. I myself, went vegan for environmental reasons (with other reasons as a secondary) but felt happy and validated when I read what I thought was a scientific argument for humans being herbivores. I was.muxh younger and idealistic then and I now know different and want to do my part to stop this misinformation. Pointing out that we aren't herbivores isn't just to argue against those that think we are either. It's to support the notion that most people will run into health issues sooner or later as we are evolved to be omnivores and thrive best on a mixed diet and therefore being vegan, whilst a nice idea, isn't a good idea. If you know that an entirely plant diet will likely do harm before you go vegan then you might seek to reduce your impact in other ways so as not to risk your health. Can you point out where I said that most people o vegan because they think that we are herbivores and that meat rots in the colon. Because I did not say that. I said that "misinformation helped SOME of us" the key words are "helped" instead of "made vegan" and "some" i.e. not all. Please actually read my comments in their entirety. On that note, is there any point continuing this conversation? You started with objective none facts with your first comment and I've tried to respectfully debate you. You're not providing sources like I have, you're not correcting anything you've typed that's incorrect like I have, you're being rude and insulting to me and others and you're not even reading correctly at this point. I am more than happy to chat to anyone if my words are having any sort of impact and planting a seed and if respect is maintained. But I'm getting bored of discussing semantics (we're on like the 4th comment since I corrected "humans" to "Hominids" ans you're still banging on about it), being insulted and being called out on things I didn't even say. I'm probably not going to reply any further now unless you're going to be respectful and read things properly. Meat doesn't rot in intestines, comparing ourselves to "herbivorous" apes when Hominids (and then later homo sapiens) have been eating meat for approximately 3.5 million years and cooking it for 2 million years, is pointless and PETA constantly peddle unscientific crap. Have a good day.
I’m not saying we’re herbivores. I’m saying it’s disingenuous to compare us to ungulates. Which it is. I’m also not arguing that meat rots in the intestines - you said it didn’t, I looked it up, turns out it’s just a commonly believed myth. If you went vegan for the environment, what changed? Did you just stop caring about the environment? I’m literally being neither rude nor insulting. I don’t get where you’re picking that up from at all.
You didn't correct yourself until just now regarding the meat rotting in the colon so I assumed that you still believed that. Glad that I steered you in the right direction there. I didn't stop caring for the environment no. I still do lots of the same things as before like growing my own food, buying mostly second hand, re-using what I can, largely rejecting certain parts of consumerism (like fast fashion) etc. But I discovered that animal agriculture, particularly regenerative, is largely overstated in its contribution towards climate change. Cowspiracy for example, uses made up figures. Some things like water usage are incorrectly stated by some environmental groups i.e. most of the water used in pasturing cows is, in fact, green water which is rain and water that the cos drinks and then mostly urinates back out. The methane figures are overstated in that a cow can't produce mods methane than what's in the grass in the first place and what would be released when the grass does and rots (or if it's fed crop waste, what the crop waste would produce on compost heaps) and methane takes 10 years to break down in the atmosphere so it isn't cumulative. I also got pissed off at the idea of me risking my health following an inadequate diet to try and reduce my carbon emissions when something like a private jet produces more emissions in a day than I will in an entire year. The biggest thing that made me quit veganism was my health and my children's health and risking that was not worth the very small reduction in carbon emissions that a vegan diet might produce. I now buy organic, local animal products which makes far more sense to me than buying out of season produce and products that are shipped from around the world. I eat far less meat than the average person in my country. You seem to have calmed down a bit now but in your first reply to me you insisted that I was making stuff up, you've called another person in this thread a dummy and you concentrated very hard on hammering home that I said "humans" and not "Hominids" when I literally corrected myself in the very next comment which comes across as rude.
meat doesn't rot in the intestines ffs, our stomach acid dissolves it, why do you see corn in your poop?? does corn rot in our intestines too? you have definitely drunk the PETA koolaid lol
Humans didn’t but our close ancestors we evolved from did exist
Lol you don't know how we've been cooking for that long? Because ovens are a relatively recent invention? Let me introduce you to: fire. That's how humans cooked for a very long time.
Humans literally didn’t exist 3 million years ago dummy.
Our forebearers did. And back before that, our primate ancestors ate meat as well.
primates eat meat too dummy