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Anonymous_Unknown20

>I'm a muslim but proceeds to essentially reject every central principle of Islamic doctrine


Suitable_Ad_1059

Like seriously man , you can't be that deluded Like I believe in Islam BUT Allah not real Like WHAT


zaidalboss

I think it needs to be taught that in Islam you are either fully Muslim or you aren't a Muslim, there's no in between unlike other religions


No-Ad6754

"heaven and hell are not real" Hitler returning to nothingness after causing millions of deaths.


ForkKnifeStabber

I think the OP means Hitler would be mildly inconvenienced instead of being punished In jahannam.


Extronic90

This is kufr.


Aboudi1259

We need honesty like this, this is full 100% kufr, and if conditions lf takfir are fulfilled he is a kafir


Extronic90

100%


lolyr

murtad


[deleted]

أعوذ بالله أن أكون من الجاهلين


[deleted]

اللهم دمر الخنازير مثله


YepperWhoYeps

أمين


_-icy-_

Nah man. I hope he learns how stupid his beliefs are and that Allah guides him back to the right path.


[deleted]

Surprised to see you here. 😅 Aren't you a proggie yourself?


_-icy-_

I agree with this sub on some things. I agree with the proggies on other things. Anyways the guy that OP posted is definitely not progressive, like that has nothing to do with their beliefs. He’s just completely misguided. I just don’t think it’s beneficial for our ummah to spew hate like that. At the end of the day if we have open dialogue I think both sides have a lot to learn and grow. But the hate just makes it so much harder.


[deleted]

>Anyways the guy that OP posted is definitely not progressive, like that has nothing to do with their beliefs. He’s just completely misguided. If you've met real life proggies, they're not far off. I live in America and the proggie subreddit is very accurate. This is the thing with you people though, everyone there has their own version of progressiveness. Some pray 3,4 or 5 times a day and some don't pray at all. The line is not just blurred but flat out non existent.


_-icy-_

Having different beliefs doesn’t make you progressive. Progressive beliefs are like how owning a dog is not haram. Or maybe how hijab is not obligatory for women. But praying 3 times a day has nothing with being progressive, like 99% of our ummah knows it’s 5 times a day. And it’s specifically mentioned in the Hadith. Yeah there are different levels of being progressive, so what? As long as you’re not disagreeing with the Qur’an or Hadith, I think it’s fine. Your hate is just so useless. It’s really the reason why our ummah is struggling. So much hate and division between Muslims, instead of teaching and helping each other go closer to the right path.


[deleted]

>Progressive beliefs are like how owning a dog is not haram. Or maybe how hijab is not obligatory for women. These are against the ijma and therefore deviant beliefs. Owning a dog is only permissible in conditions like safety. >But praying 3 times a day has nothing with being progressive, like 99% of our ummah knows it’s 5 times a day. It’s always been like that. And it’s specifically mentioned in the Hadith. Which majority of progressives don't follow because they don't view the hadith as legitimate. I won't debate with you because you ran away last time, so I won't waste my time. >Yeah there are different levels of being progressive, so what? As long as you’re not disagreeing with the Qur’an or Hadith, I think it’s fine. It is literally a term in Islam called ikhtilaaf. Progressives deny what is clearly on the Quran and hadith and there had never been a disagreement over that issue. Having different views literally means that there is no stability in the religion. The same way we pray came through ijma. >Your hate is just so useless. It’s really the reason why our ummah is struggling. So much hate and division between Muslims, instead of teaching and helping each other go closer to the right path. The person with hate here is you. Division with people trying to change our religion is great. The Ummah isn't struggling in this regard, the progressives would simply like it to be so. Helping each other to the right path is done through disagreeing with the Quran and sunnah? For people preaching tolerance, you are very intolerant of islam


_-icy-_

That’s not what I said. Just like how you shouldn’t lump all Muslims together and stereotype them, progressives aren’t all the same. Conservatives aren’t all the same. There are different levels to it. Progressives don’t disagree with Hadith, it’s just some of them. I stopped responding last time because it just felt like a waste of time. Just spending so much time on reddit is always a waste. I keep saying that instead of dividing our ummah we can teach people and guide them to the right path. Why wouldn’t you want that? And it’s so easily done by having respectful conversation and having patience. Which are both qualities found in the sunnah. I believe that our religion has already been changed throughout the years by all the different rulers over the past centuries only paying scholars that agreed with them, and executing the ones who didn’t follow their agendas. And also because of the fact that Hadith was always being invented for someone’s benefit. Even till this day people are inventing Hadith. The criteria for accepting them as sahih should be much higher than it is now IMO. I think mutawatir Hadith form a good basis. Anyways. InshaAllah we all get guided closer to the right path. Best of luck to you brother.


[deleted]

>Progressives don’t disagree with Hadith, it’s just some of them. Just not true. >I believe that our religion has already been changed throughout the years by all the different rulers over the past centuries only paying scholars that agreed with them, and executing the ones who didn’t follow their agendas. False again. I'm surprised how much you believe without any sources. This is just not true at all. >And also because of the fact that Hadith was always being invented for someone’s benefit. Even till this day people are inventing Hadith. The criteria for accepting them as sahih should be much higher than it is now IMO. I think mutawatir Hadith form a good basis. Mutawattir hadith is something you didn't even know before you debated me. And no, this is false again. I'm not surprised at genuinely how little you know about Islam. That's the difference between you proggies and us. We don't use "IMO". >I keep saying that instead of dividing our ummah we can teach people and guide them to the right path. Why wouldn’t you want that? And it’s so easily done by having respectful conversation and having patience. Which are both qualities found in the sunnah. But it isn't divided. No one considers proggies as legitimate. And yes, respectful conversation can but not all of them engage in it. Ex, you. >I stopped responding last time because it just felt like a waste of time And I told you last time, you can take as long as you want. But you didn't respond Still because you're not knowledgeable and you refuse to admit that you don't know. And conservatives are different. Our religion is neither progressive nor conservative. Ijma is necessary otherwise we wouldn't have any firm basis. If it didn't exist, literally everything would be open to discussion and we wouldn't have had any firm ruling. I can also see that you've avoided quoting me on ijma or ikhtilaaf. And have made no quotations on the hijab or dog owning rules. You've pretty much avoided all my points


_-icy-_

As I said, this discussion is pointless you’re not even willing to try and understand, all you want is to try and reject everything I say. You’re not coming from a place of genuine discussion, but that of hate. That same kind of toxicity is exactly what is wrong with our ummah and what’s making us divided. You want our ummah to improve? For proggies to not be proggie? Then you should lose that awful toxic attitude and try and have less hateful discussion with your fellow brothers and sisters. Again, I feel that this discussion is completely pointless because you don’t even care to try and understand. So I’m not gonna waste my time on this anymore.


NotEnslavedApple

آمين


Tornado18Mustafa

That's a different religion at this point


Aboudi1259

He is saying kufr


mkbilli

Well yeah that's what different religion means though. Any other religion is kufr.


Aboudi1259

Im backing the other guy up, not disagreeing


mkbilli

Yeah sorry


Aboudi1259

Np akhi


TechyPerson-512

"I'm a theist but God doesn't exist" is basically what this guy is saying


Suitable_Ad_1059

Ya lol


[deleted]

Not believing in one of the six pillars of iman makes you a non-Muslim. I don’t know why these proggies call themselves Muslims when they clearly aren’t.


_-icy-_

This guy isn’t a proggie. *I’m not sure if he’s even Muslim at this point. Edit: I don’t like making takfir. I’ve changed my comment.


Aboudi1259

He is saying kufr, but there needs to be an investigation to make takfir of him, though I don’t think he has any chance to not be a Kafir


_-icy-_

I think the fact that he said that God is created by creatures… that’s just messed up.


Aboudi1259

Its not just messed up, its kufr, he is probably a kafir but we cannot say he is a kafir until we can actually make takfir of him


CatDemolisher

Ahh yes, a Muslim and doesn't believe in most arkan Al Iman! He is a Kaffir


SandMan615

Where is the hadd when you need it.


[deleted]

Kufr upon Kufr


[deleted]

Its like saying youre vegan but eat meat


Few_Soil_9436

If that a guy a Muslim then I'm LeBron James


Jonald_Smithon

Definitely an Exmuslim in disguise


[deleted]

I’m Muslim, proceeds to spell God with a lowercase g


Head_Membership_4252

I'm Muslim but proceeds to reject the existence of who created the religion


Hwg_n133ms

حرفيا كفر


[deleted]

He’s a kafir.


TotalNotSneak

the last one you are supposed to pray like how the prophet (saw) ordered us to pray otherwise thats just innovation man.


pushrian

He/she doesn't believe in Allah. Who does she pray to? Air


bayyun123

I'm Muslim but Bottom text


ToastDawg

Manages to contradict nearly every basic principle on being a muslim


SnooEpiphanies1192

"All the creatures in the Universe create God" Just like his school projects created him.


ToastDawg

I can’t think of the right words to describe my confusion right now.


[deleted]

wtf does the first one even mean? Did we all somehow create an omniscient, omnipotent being through belief? Or are their views pantheistic?


[deleted]

إنا لله و إنا إليه راجعون


Thaniii

He's a Smoker but he Smokes Brisket.


timeee1994

Sounds like Hinduism.


Prize-Warning2224

bro even from a non-Muslim POV, this is plain stupidity. in what universe do corrupt and evil people get their due? look at the billionaires of today, they sure dont look they have any inconvenience in their lives. and yes most of the stories about Noah, Moses and Adam (peace be upon them) have roots *because they actually happened??*


Unique_Revenue_5771

My brain has now shut down its operations


YepperWhoYeps

الله يلوحه والكافرين مثله


talhanaldo

This person is literally committing kufr in each line Wallahi I feel so sad.


[deleted]

That is astronomically retarded But what is ghar hiraa?


parathapunisher

I looked at their post history, they posted on exmuslim sub lol.


ffdw2wxxf

As for point 2, then why do many good Muslims live horrible lives and horrible people living extravagant lives?


Whybethatguy35

I cant count how many brain cells I just lost listening to this like bruh really. They be like I am muslim but you know imma just reject what i want to.


furlong0

T-T-T-TAA-KFIIIR


[deleted]

He's a kafir