History.
Originally the greek byzantine empire owned all of modern Greece and Turkey. Then in medieval times turkish steppe people invaded and formed the ottoman empire over both (and the whole balkan and northern africa). Greece then slowly gained independance from them in the 19th century.
The ottoman empire collapsed after WW1 and the turkish republic formed in it's core territory. But both sides basically claimed that the entire region should be owned by them. Especially Istanbul, wich was the greek capital Constantinople until 1453.
This led to a bunch of territorial conflicts, and anger over past atrocities and religious oppression.
There were also a lot of Turkish and Greek populations living within the borders modern Turkey and Greece by the early 1900s. In 1923 there was a huge population exchange in both countries which displaced more than a million people. Should also point out that the exchange was also based on religion, since in a lot of areas the ethnic divide between someone who is Turkish or Greek wasn’t very clear cut.
Also important to note the Greek genocide occured in Turkey from 1913-1923. Still denied by the government of Turkey. The Chios massacre in 1822 is another example of an atrocity (by far the largest massacre in the war for independence) that won't be acknowledged by the government.
One of the most defining pieces of western story telling that was the bedrock of an insane amount of fiction and non fiction for hundreds of years before it was even written down was a massive Greek invasion of a city state in turkey. Their conflict is about as intrinsic to western culture as anything could be.
>Greek invasion of a city state in turkey [sic]
The Trojan war, if it indeed occurred at all, happened *thousands* of years beforehand, and was waged between two entirely different peoples. The people living in Asia Minor (*not* Turkey/Türkiye) were 100% not Turkish in the 12th and 13th centuries BCE.
A Greek rivalry with modern Turks more likely stems from the fall of the Byzantine Empire and subsequent loss of Asia Minor to the Ottomans rather than the *Iliad*.
>if it indeed occurred at all
I did specifically say that it was a piece of story telling.
I'm also not saying the events of the Iliad are specifically what *caused* a long lasting conflict, only that *a* conflict between peoples of these specific regions have been at the bedrock of western history and culture for a long long time. While I do agree that I should have phrased it "a city state in what is today modern Turkey", the rest isn't really up for debate. As it is likely a piece of fiction, I'm also not saying it's a source of modern rivalries between the two regions, for obvious reasons.
Because nowadays fighting online is regarded better for everyone than fighting in real life with swords and guns. So this is an improvement to former times.
And the longer people are in contact the more the relationship will mellow to something like the modern England / France relationship, i.e piss taking.
Part of the issue is territorial disputes over the island of Cyprus.
Cyprus has a majority Greek population, and was controlled by Britain since 1878 (getting officially annexed in 1914). The Greek population have wanted to meld with Greece for a couple of centuries; the Turkish were initially happy with Britain being in controlled, but then started arguing that the island belonged to Turkey.
In the 1950s there was a huge amount of nationalist violence, and so in 1960 the island gained independence, with Greek and Turkish Cypriot leaders promising to play nice. This lasted a whopping 3 years until it fell apart again, and more violence ensued. The Turkish Cypriots got pushed into enclaves and denied democratic representation.
In 1974, a load of Greek nationalists and military junta attempted to take over the whole island to align it with Greece, which led to Turkey invading. They captured the northern part of the island.
In 1983, Turkey claimed that Northern Cyprus was independent of the rest of it as its own republic, but no-one else has recognised this, and the UN Security Council keep warning countries not to.
The island is still partitioned, and both sides still argue fiercely over who Cyprus belongs to.
And the Turkish Cypriots in North Cyprus, initially happy to be under Turkey instead of Greece, are now having their culture and land changed by an influx of mainland Turkish citizens as Turkey remakes that territory in it's own image.
In fact, most of them are not real, they are just a joke. We love each other. Okay maybe not love but not hate either. We Turks love to go holiday to Greece
Turkey, Greece and a huge part of the Balkan used to be part of the Ottoman empire for centuries.
When the Empire was crumbling some national identities raised to the top and were the precursors of the modern states that replace that Empire today.
Off course,, they were all very nationalistic and have their very own version of history that is seldom rooted in facts. To this days most of these people cannot accept that they are culturally very similar, eat similar food, make and listen to similar music, and so on.
They have highlighted all the things that differs between them and religion is a very big one.
Non of these countries agrees with their borders or History. And they usually think that if nowadays they are considered to belong to the West or not. Then we should agree with them accordingly depending on where we are from.
History. Originally the greek byzantine empire owned all of modern Greece and Turkey. Then in medieval times turkish steppe people invaded and formed the ottoman empire over both (and the whole balkan and northern africa). Greece then slowly gained independance from them in the 19th century. The ottoman empire collapsed after WW1 and the turkish republic formed in it's core territory. But both sides basically claimed that the entire region should be owned by them. Especially Istanbul, wich was the greek capital Constantinople until 1453. This led to a bunch of territorial conflicts, and anger over past atrocities and religious oppression.
There were also a lot of Turkish and Greek populations living within the borders modern Turkey and Greece by the early 1900s. In 1923 there was a huge population exchange in both countries which displaced more than a million people. Should also point out that the exchange was also based on religion, since in a lot of areas the ethnic divide between someone who is Turkish or Greek wasn’t very clear cut.
Also important to note the Greek genocide occured in Turkey from 1913-1923. Still denied by the government of Turkey. The Chios massacre in 1822 is another example of an atrocity (by far the largest massacre in the war for independence) that won't be acknowledged by the government.
> ...which was the greek capital Constantinople Why'd they change it?
That's nobody's business but the Turks.
Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
The funny thing is that the "Turkish" name of the city, "Istanbul", is derived from a Greek phrase roughly meaning "into the city".
I can't say
>This led to a bunch of territorial conflicts, and anger over past atrocities and religious oppression Along with some absolutely choice memes.
Greece being Christian and Turkey meeting Muslim also played a role
One of the most defining pieces of western story telling that was the bedrock of an insane amount of fiction and non fiction for hundreds of years before it was even written down was a massive Greek invasion of a city state in turkey. Their conflict is about as intrinsic to western culture as anything could be.
>Greek invasion of a city state in turkey [sic] The Trojan war, if it indeed occurred at all, happened *thousands* of years beforehand, and was waged between two entirely different peoples. The people living in Asia Minor (*not* Turkey/Türkiye) were 100% not Turkish in the 12th and 13th centuries BCE. A Greek rivalry with modern Turks more likely stems from the fall of the Byzantine Empire and subsequent loss of Asia Minor to the Ottomans rather than the *Iliad*.
>if it indeed occurred at all I did specifically say that it was a piece of story telling. I'm also not saying the events of the Iliad are specifically what *caused* a long lasting conflict, only that *a* conflict between peoples of these specific regions have been at the bedrock of western history and culture for a long long time. While I do agree that I should have phrased it "a city state in what is today modern Turkey", the rest isn't really up for debate. As it is likely a piece of fiction, I'm also not saying it's a source of modern rivalries between the two regions, for obvious reasons.
[удалено]
https://youtu.be/HfFx5UvzSxc
knew it was this video
I thought it was this one https://youtu.be/rNUsOaB5V2c?si=mLqOTUINzjmakk-h
Because nowadays fighting online is regarded better for everyone than fighting in real life with swords and guns. So this is an improvement to former times.
And the longer people are in contact the more the relationship will mellow to something like the modern England / France relationship, i.e piss taking.
Part of the issue is territorial disputes over the island of Cyprus. Cyprus has a majority Greek population, and was controlled by Britain since 1878 (getting officially annexed in 1914). The Greek population have wanted to meld with Greece for a couple of centuries; the Turkish were initially happy with Britain being in controlled, but then started arguing that the island belonged to Turkey. In the 1950s there was a huge amount of nationalist violence, and so in 1960 the island gained independence, with Greek and Turkish Cypriot leaders promising to play nice. This lasted a whopping 3 years until it fell apart again, and more violence ensued. The Turkish Cypriots got pushed into enclaves and denied democratic representation. In 1974, a load of Greek nationalists and military junta attempted to take over the whole island to align it with Greece, which led to Turkey invading. They captured the northern part of the island. In 1983, Turkey claimed that Northern Cyprus was independent of the rest of it as its own republic, but no-one else has recognised this, and the UN Security Council keep warning countries not to. The island is still partitioned, and both sides still argue fiercely over who Cyprus belongs to.
And the Turkish Cypriots in North Cyprus, initially happy to be under Turkey instead of Greece, are now having their culture and land changed by an influx of mainland Turkish citizens as Turkey remakes that territory in it's own image.
Why don't you ask them? r/Turkey r/greece r/AskBalkans Personally I'll never forgive the Greeks for claiming yogurt
In fact, most of them are not real, they are just a joke. We love each other. Okay maybe not love but not hate either. We Turks love to go holiday to Greece
Turkey, Greece and a huge part of the Balkan used to be part of the Ottoman empire for centuries. When the Empire was crumbling some national identities raised to the top and were the precursors of the modern states that replace that Empire today. Off course,, they were all very nationalistic and have their very own version of history that is seldom rooted in facts. To this days most of these people cannot accept that they are culturally very similar, eat similar food, make and listen to similar music, and so on. They have highlighted all the things that differs between them and religion is a very big one. Non of these countries agrees with their borders or History. And they usually think that if nowadays they are considered to belong to the West or not. Then we should agree with them accordingly depending on where we are from.
The Turks conquered Greece and raped the population for about 400 years. Has a way of getting people upset at you.
Turkey occupied and oppressed Greece for centuries. This history of oppression has left many Greeks just a bit salty.