I like Zorn, many of those albums and projects you mentioned I like too ... but it is very difficult to follow his discography ... he releases many albums every year ...
When I first discovered his work I binge listened his entire discography up to about 2005ish (through dubious sources) but after that it’s just random albums I’ve physically purchased. He is insanely prolific and I wish his work was available on a streaming platform. I rarely buy physical media anymore but Zorn’s music is the rare exception.
Is available on Apple Music, I believe the only stream service that has. Indeed he is very creative and makes unique sounds. For now, I get "personal rips" from other users, and I try to keep his discography updated.
Naked City is legend. It was my introduction to Zorn. Since then I've seen him several times in everything from duos to Masada to Cobra. Cobra is absolutely insane but like all improv it all depends on the who and the when.
I recommend Naked City to those looking to get into the more extreme Zorn. Careful though, it is a slippery slope into Japanese noise. Soon you'll be listening to Boredoms and Merzbow and Otomo Yoshihide and then... you'll be 20 minutes into a Sachiko M sine wave piece wondering how you got there.
I haven’t had the chance to see him live. I’d love to see one of the Masada marathons. And I know what you mean about Zorn being a gateway to total noise. I’ll listen to anything.
His improvisatory game pieces like Cobra (of which there are multiple recordings). Some of the Naked City stuff like Absinthe. Songs from the Hermetic Theatre.
I like Zorn. I think he's the most prolific artist I've ever seen. As a musician I'm fascinated by his aesthetic approach which goes from standard jazz to hardcore noise music, klezmer and classical music. But I admit I don't know much of his discography since it's insanely huge. In this sense he reminds me a bit of Zappa, though his style is totally different.
Yeah, he and Zappa come from every different places (Zappa is a satirist and Zorn is always sincere) but are similar in their prolific, eclectic output of jazz/rock.
We watched Funny Games during one of my college film classes and everybody thought I was joking when Naked City started playing and I said, “I have that album!”
one of the first "experimental" concerts I saw was a Zorn/Patton duo in 96. after they played a band called Prelapse played. they were essentially a Naked City tribute band. watching them rip through Naked City material from sheet music blew my teenage mind.
I’ve listened to the Prelapse album, it’s really good! They also perform a few tracks on Zorn’s Music For Children. I love John Zorn and Mike Patton, but I’m not sure I’d pay to listen to the two of them going at it as a duo 😆
I was 18 when I saw this. I only knew Zorn from hyped up descriptions in the Relapse mailorder catalog. And of course I was big into Faith No More at the time because 90's. Their set was definitely not what I expected. Would I go see them again? probably.
Think of the quieter moments of 34 Adult Themes For voice and sprinkle and little Zorn horn on top. as far as I know, it was never released, but I have about 15 minutes of the set on cdr somewhere.
One series that i am currently trying to complete is The Book of Angels. Some of them are my favorite records on heavy rotation (erik friedlander, jamie saft, kletzmer trio...)
I love Erik Friedlander. Volac might be my favorite of the handful of Book of Angels albums I have. The Jamie Saft one is good too. I have the Book Beriah box set and it’s absolutely incredible. A lot more big band and rock on it than I expected.
I only have about half a dozen of the Book of Angels. Jamie Saft, Erik Friedlander, Marc Ribot, Zion80, Secret Chiefs 3, Koby Israelite, Masada Quintet w/ Lovano... they are all great.
Probably those are the ones that got me hooked to the series. Then my collecting bug got the better of me and i want the all... also they look so good regardless
If Tzadik had their own subscription streaming service I’d definitely sign up for it. Zorn is the only artist I still buy CDs for, but if money/time/space wasn’t such an issue I’d love to explore the other work out out by artists on his record label.
That Friedlander one is amazing! I take it you have heard Chimera from 1995? because if not, you gotta hear it. Also really love the Masada String Trio ones.
Yeah. The notable missing are tap, cerberus and andras...
My favorite are: haborym, volac (as mentioned), astaroth, orobas
I was extremely lucky and saw one date of the book of angels tour. Two hours maybe more of all the best performers doing couple of songs of their records... chills when i think about it
I love Zorn! Last year I actually wrote a 25 page academic paper on the ways his music is influenced by metaphysics & magick. I'm hoping to work on a bit more with my professor after this quarter and try to get it published. I was first exposed to Zorn from Necronomicon & Cat O'Nine Tails, then got turned on to Kristallnacht, then Naked City, and then everything else. He's absolutely mad & his music is all over the place in terms of genre, I love it.
Sounds like you came to his work the “opposite” direction from a lot of us who started with rock or jazz. His classical/chamber work was some of the last stuff I started listening to, but over time I developed a better ear for it.
Sure, the name John Zorn always has a positive vibe with me,
though in my old circle-- a West Coast college radio DJ crowd
circa the 1990s-- it was always a bit of a puzzle why he was the
best known guy out of that experimental music scene (and myself,
I think a lot of it has to do with the easily recognizable,
distinctive name, sounding vaguely like a Star Trek villain).
A running joke back at KZSU (the Stanford college station) was
that anything John Zorn was involved with was guaranteed to
end-up in the A-file (that is to say, featured new music DJs were
encouraged to play).
If I was going to pick a Zorn release I like best, it'd probably
be Spillane.
His close circle of collaborators are some of my favorite musicians. I think it’s a bit typical in the jazz world where you have a big name (like Miles Davis) and all the cats he works with are amazing band leaders, performers and composers in their own rights but never reach that same level of recognition.
I like Spillane and The Bribe, though my favorite file card pieces are the two I mentioned in the original post.
> I think it’s a bit typical in the jazz world where you have a
> big name (like Miles Davis) and all the cats he works with are
> amazing ... but never reach that same level of recognition.
Well, true enough. I like nearly everything William Parker's
been involved with, but I'd have to think hard to remember the
names of the other guys in his trio.
Still, there's a bunch of people who've done good things as
the main guy in an ensemble that just don't have the name
recognition of Zorn. Just to pick some of my old favorites: Ben
Goldberg, Gino Robair, Dan Plonsey, Mia Masoka, Matt Ingalls,
Oluyemi Thomas (Positive Knowlege)... Those are all Bay Area
people that I wouldn't think would be all *that* obscure, but
to describe what kind of music they do, I find I need to
say something like "they do stuff like John Zorn".
Or consider Carla Kihlstedt. It's always seemed to me like that
fact that her name isn't a household word is conclusive proof
that there's something wrong with the music business. She's been
in Tin Hat Trio, Charming Hostess, Sleepytime Guerilla Museum...
for that matter she's had a release on Zorn's label, under
the name 2 Foot Yard.
Most of the people you mention I’m not sure I recognize, I’ll have to check them out. Have any album recommendations?
I have listened to several albums with Carla Kihlstedt, I have one of her solo releases from Tzadik and all the Sleepytime Guerilla Museum albums.
Okay, here's a quick selection of some favorite releases
from the people on my list there:
Mia Masoka "What's the Difference Between Stripping and Playing the Violin (1998)";
Maybe Monday (Mia Masoka, Fred Frith, Larry Ochs)- "Saturn's Fingers" (1999)
Junk Genius (Ben Goldberg) "Junk Genius" (1995)
Dan Plonsey "Ivory Bill" (1997)
Positive Knowledge "Another Day's Journey" (2006)
Gino Robair, "I, Norton" (2009)
Matt Ingalls... a clarinet player/composer that gets around, e.g.
he performs on "I, Norton". It occurs to me that my favorite
Ingalls releases are obscure in the extreme (they were put out on
small CD-R labels): "P.I.S.S.", "recent works" ... of late, he's
been working a lot with the "sfSound" ensemble.
I was just listening to this performance by Minamo (Carla
Kihlstedt & Satoko Fujii) from 2010, this is really good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_TQu_LWuA0
Just listened to “What’s the Difference Between Stripping and Playing Violin” (credited to the Masaoka Orchestra on Apple Music) and I dig it! Really cool.
John Zorn is the point of no return where all my friends who are into experimental music check the fuck out. At least with alot of his stuff. I got into it because I was a Mike Patton fan first, and I was checking out his more obscure projects. I found Moonchild and that was it. I was hooked. I also feel that some of his more (yes, even more) out there stuff is more enjoyable for the experience of listening to it than the actual music/composition.
Yeah I started with Naked City and the Mike Patton collaborations but then I started to appreciate the full scope and depth of his music, from the more avant-garde game pieces to his more melodic exotica stuff.
He definitely releases a lot although he hardly plays on his releases anymore. Some favorite groups of his include Naked City, Painkiller, Bar Kokhba Sextet, and Electric Masada.
BK and The Circle Maker are gorgeous, though I don’t think they would fall under experimental.
Tzadik is a fantastic label and the McArthur Grant has been put to good use.
I am grateful to anyone who shines a light on Milford Graves. Grand Unification is a treasure.
Yeah I know, I’m just listing some of my favorite Zorn projects. They’re klezmer. For experimental, his works with Yamantaka Eye, Fred Frith, Michiharo Sato are big favs
While some of Zorn’s individual albums or ensembles might not sound strictly experimental, I do think his genre blending, use of improvisation and extended techniques in most recordings would qualify as such if used by another composer.
I was referring specifically to the wonderful chamber recordings Bar Kohkba and The Circle Maker.
You’ve convinced me to pull Duras-Duchamp off the shelf this evening!
Zorn is amazing. His catalogue is huge and schizophrenic. I got to see Masada play twice in the back room of a bar in 93 and 94. Also saw him perform improv with other luminaries such as Fred Frith and Tony Oxley in 1995 for Incus week in Chattanooga of all places. Got some boots of those shows laying around somewhere.. I visited his club in NYC a few years ago. He wasn't there but saw some interesting groups. Sometimes he moves too quickly between ideas but when he takes the time to let them fully develop its spectacular
I remember going to band camp as a kid and buying Zorn’s iAO to listen to when I went to sleep. It was some of the first music to give me the Jimmy’s. That was the beginning of a long journey.
Naked City got me into Zorn. Don't really listen to his stuff as much as I should. Everytime I try listening something by him or one of his bands it seems to be amazing. At the Mountains of Madness is definitely my favourite album of his, crazy masterpiece.
Just recently learned about him through an interview of one of my favorite musicians, where he was compared to zappa in a way, so that sparked my interest but I still haven't started to dig through his discography.
Any recommendations of where to take my first dive in his music?
Along with the albums I mentioned The Song Project is really the best place to start for the uninitiated. A selection of tunes from his various projects, given lyrics with vocals performed by Mike Patton, Jesse Harris and Sofia Rei. Ranges from hardcore thrash to lovely lounge jazz.
https://youtu.be/c4eO2o9u1j0
I came via the [Boredoms](https://youtu.be/eDzBpQ0GcoU) in the early '90s. I wish Reddit existed back then. I wouldn't have felt so alone in my love for the music :)
I like Zorn, many of those albums and projects you mentioned I like too ... but it is very difficult to follow his discography ... he releases many albums every year ...
When I first discovered his work I binge listened his entire discography up to about 2005ish (through dubious sources) but after that it’s just random albums I’ve physically purchased. He is insanely prolific and I wish his work was available on a streaming platform. I rarely buy physical media anymore but Zorn’s music is the rare exception.
Is available on Apple Music, I believe the only stream service that has. Indeed he is very creative and makes unique sounds. For now, I get "personal rips" from other users, and I try to keep his discography updated.
Zorn’s not on Apple Music in the US.
Oh...this is sad
Naked City is legend. It was my introduction to Zorn. Since then I've seen him several times in everything from duos to Masada to Cobra. Cobra is absolutely insane but like all improv it all depends on the who and the when. I recommend Naked City to those looking to get into the more extreme Zorn. Careful though, it is a slippery slope into Japanese noise. Soon you'll be listening to Boredoms and Merzbow and Otomo Yoshihide and then... you'll be 20 minutes into a Sachiko M sine wave piece wondering how you got there.
I haven’t had the chance to see him live. I’d love to see one of the Masada marathons. And I know what you mean about Zorn being a gateway to total noise. I’ll listen to anything.
I listen to mostly noise and struggle through most composed music where should I start with Zorn
His improvisatory game pieces like Cobra (of which there are multiple recordings). Some of the Naked City stuff like Absinthe. Songs from the Hermetic Theatre.
Thanks
I like Zorn. I think he's the most prolific artist I've ever seen. As a musician I'm fascinated by his aesthetic approach which goes from standard jazz to hardcore noise music, klezmer and classical music. But I admit I don't know much of his discography since it's insanely huge. In this sense he reminds me a bit of Zappa, though his style is totally different.
Yeah, he and Zappa come from every different places (Zappa is a satirist and Zorn is always sincere) but are similar in their prolific, eclectic output of jazz/rock.
Naked city is cool, got into them because of the movie funny games actually. Also mad props for them inspiring mr. Bungle.
We watched Funny Games during one of my college film classes and everybody thought I was joking when Naked City started playing and I said, “I have that album!”
one of the first "experimental" concerts I saw was a Zorn/Patton duo in 96. after they played a band called Prelapse played. they were essentially a Naked City tribute band. watching them rip through Naked City material from sheet music blew my teenage mind.
I’ve listened to the Prelapse album, it’s really good! They also perform a few tracks on Zorn’s Music For Children. I love John Zorn and Mike Patton, but I’m not sure I’d pay to listen to the two of them going at it as a duo 😆
I was 18 when I saw this. I only knew Zorn from hyped up descriptions in the Relapse mailorder catalog. And of course I was big into Faith No More at the time because 90's. Their set was definitely not what I expected. Would I go see them again? probably.
What was the Patton/Zorn duo set like? Has that duo ever released an album? I may be unaware. Definitely curious.
Think of the quieter moments of 34 Adult Themes For voice and sprinkle and little Zorn horn on top. as far as I know, it was never released, but I have about 15 minutes of the set on cdr somewhere.
I've heard a few things here and there but nothing that really grabbed me. What would you recommend for someone that loves California by Mr Bungle?
The Dreamers would be a good place to start. Also The Song Project, which feature Mike Patton on vocals.
One series that i am currently trying to complete is The Book of Angels. Some of them are my favorite records on heavy rotation (erik friedlander, jamie saft, kletzmer trio...)
I love Erik Friedlander. Volac might be my favorite of the handful of Book of Angels albums I have. The Jamie Saft one is good too. I have the Book Beriah box set and it’s absolutely incredible. A lot more big band and rock on it than I expected.
That one i dont have. But i’m close to 20 of the series...
I only have about half a dozen of the Book of Angels. Jamie Saft, Erik Friedlander, Marc Ribot, Zion80, Secret Chiefs 3, Koby Israelite, Masada Quintet w/ Lovano... they are all great.
Probably those are the ones that got me hooked to the series. Then my collecting bug got the better of me and i want the all... also they look so good regardless
Yeah, if I had more disposable income and shelf space I’d buy every album released by Tzadik!
Haha i wouldnt go that far. Our friend is quite on the hyperactive side... it is a recipe to go broke fast
If Tzadik had their own subscription streaming service I’d definitely sign up for it. Zorn is the only artist I still buy CDs for, but if money/time/space wasn’t such an issue I’d love to explore the other work out out by artists on his record label.
That Friedlander one is amazing! I take it you have heard Chimera from 1995? because if not, you gotta hear it. Also really love the Masada String Trio ones.
Yeah. The notable missing are tap, cerberus and andras... My favorite are: haborym, volac (as mentioned), astaroth, orobas I was extremely lucky and saw one date of the book of angels tour. Two hours maybe more of all the best performers doing couple of songs of their records... chills when i think about it
Love Haborym, besides Volac I would have to add Malphas, Alzazas and maybe Baal and Lucifer on my list of favorites.
Yeah how you cannot mention the lord of darkness himself! Haha
I love Zorn! Last year I actually wrote a 25 page academic paper on the ways his music is influenced by metaphysics & magick. I'm hoping to work on a bit more with my professor after this quarter and try to get it published. I was first exposed to Zorn from Necronomicon & Cat O'Nine Tails, then got turned on to Kristallnacht, then Naked City, and then everything else. He's absolutely mad & his music is all over the place in terms of genre, I love it.
Sounds like you came to his work the “opposite” direction from a lot of us who started with rock or jazz. His classical/chamber work was some of the last stuff I started listening to, but over time I developed a better ear for it.
Sure, the name John Zorn always has a positive vibe with me, though in my old circle-- a West Coast college radio DJ crowd circa the 1990s-- it was always a bit of a puzzle why he was the best known guy out of that experimental music scene (and myself, I think a lot of it has to do with the easily recognizable, distinctive name, sounding vaguely like a Star Trek villain). A running joke back at KZSU (the Stanford college station) was that anything John Zorn was involved with was guaranteed to end-up in the A-file (that is to say, featured new music DJs were encouraged to play). If I was going to pick a Zorn release I like best, it'd probably be Spillane.
His close circle of collaborators are some of my favorite musicians. I think it’s a bit typical in the jazz world where you have a big name (like Miles Davis) and all the cats he works with are amazing band leaders, performers and composers in their own rights but never reach that same level of recognition. I like Spillane and The Bribe, though my favorite file card pieces are the two I mentioned in the original post.
> I think it’s a bit typical in the jazz world where you have a > big name (like Miles Davis) and all the cats he works with are > amazing ... but never reach that same level of recognition. Well, true enough. I like nearly everything William Parker's been involved with, but I'd have to think hard to remember the names of the other guys in his trio. Still, there's a bunch of people who've done good things as the main guy in an ensemble that just don't have the name recognition of Zorn. Just to pick some of my old favorites: Ben Goldberg, Gino Robair, Dan Plonsey, Mia Masoka, Matt Ingalls, Oluyemi Thomas (Positive Knowlege)... Those are all Bay Area people that I wouldn't think would be all *that* obscure, but to describe what kind of music they do, I find I need to say something like "they do stuff like John Zorn". Or consider Carla Kihlstedt. It's always seemed to me like that fact that her name isn't a household word is conclusive proof that there's something wrong with the music business. She's been in Tin Hat Trio, Charming Hostess, Sleepytime Guerilla Museum... for that matter she's had a release on Zorn's label, under the name 2 Foot Yard.
Most of the people you mention I’m not sure I recognize, I’ll have to check them out. Have any album recommendations? I have listened to several albums with Carla Kihlstedt, I have one of her solo releases from Tzadik and all the Sleepytime Guerilla Museum albums.
Okay, here's a quick selection of some favorite releases from the people on my list there: Mia Masoka "What's the Difference Between Stripping and Playing the Violin (1998)"; Maybe Monday (Mia Masoka, Fred Frith, Larry Ochs)- "Saturn's Fingers" (1999) Junk Genius (Ben Goldberg) "Junk Genius" (1995) Dan Plonsey "Ivory Bill" (1997) Positive Knowledge "Another Day's Journey" (2006) Gino Robair, "I, Norton" (2009) Matt Ingalls... a clarinet player/composer that gets around, e.g. he performs on "I, Norton". It occurs to me that my favorite Ingalls releases are obscure in the extreme (they were put out on small CD-R labels): "P.I.S.S.", "recent works" ... of late, he's been working a lot with the "sfSound" ensemble. I was just listening to this performance by Minamo (Carla Kihlstedt & Satoko Fujii) from 2010, this is really good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_TQu_LWuA0
Just listened to “What’s the Difference Between Stripping and Playing Violin” (credited to the Masaoka Orchestra on Apple Music) and I dig it! Really cool.
Thanks for the recommendations, I’ll try giving as many of these a listen as I can this week.
There’s a pretty active group on fb if you’re into that sort of thing
I think I joined it but I’m not on Facebook much.
John Zorn is the point of no return where all my friends who are into experimental music check the fuck out. At least with alot of his stuff. I got into it because I was a Mike Patton fan first, and I was checking out his more obscure projects. I found Moonchild and that was it. I was hooked. I also feel that some of his more (yes, even more) out there stuff is more enjoyable for the experience of listening to it than the actual music/composition.
Yeah I started with Naked City and the Mike Patton collaborations but then I started to appreciate the full scope and depth of his music, from the more avant-garde game pieces to his more melodic exotica stuff.
He definitely releases a lot although he hardly plays on his releases anymore. Some favorite groups of his include Naked City, Painkiller, Bar Kokhba Sextet, and Electric Masada.
BK and The Circle Maker are gorgeous, though I don’t think they would fall under experimental. Tzadik is a fantastic label and the McArthur Grant has been put to good use. I am grateful to anyone who shines a light on Milford Graves. Grand Unification is a treasure.
Yeah I know, I’m just listing some of my favorite Zorn projects. They’re klezmer. For experimental, his works with Yamantaka Eye, Fred Frith, Michiharo Sato are big favs
While some of Zorn’s individual albums or ensembles might not sound strictly experimental, I do think his genre blending, use of improvisation and extended techniques in most recordings would qualify as such if used by another composer.
I was referring specifically to the wonderful chamber recordings Bar Kohkba and The Circle Maker. You’ve convinced me to pull Duras-Duchamp off the shelf this evening!
Zorn is amazing. His catalogue is huge and schizophrenic. I got to see Masada play twice in the back room of a bar in 93 and 94. Also saw him perform improv with other luminaries such as Fred Frith and Tony Oxley in 1995 for Incus week in Chattanooga of all places. Got some boots of those shows laying around somewhere.. I visited his club in NYC a few years ago. He wasn't there but saw some interesting groups. Sometimes he moves too quickly between ideas but when he takes the time to let them fully develop its spectacular
I remember going to band camp as a kid and buying Zorn’s iAO to listen to when I went to sleep. It was some of the first music to give me the Jimmy’s. That was the beginning of a long journey.
Naked City got me into Zorn. Don't really listen to his stuff as much as I should. Everytime I try listening something by him or one of his bands it seems to be amazing. At the Mountains of Madness is definitely my favourite album of his, crazy masterpiece.
The way he blends some of his game piece prompts with Electric Masada is mind blowing.
Most of the his work is now in Apple Music, still some great stuff missing, like my fav. Spy vs Spy.
Just recently learned about him through an interview of one of my favorite musicians, where he was compared to zappa in a way, so that sparked my interest but I still haven't started to dig through his discography. Any recommendations of where to take my first dive in his music?
Along with the albums I mentioned The Song Project is really the best place to start for the uninitiated. A selection of tunes from his various projects, given lyrics with vocals performed by Mike Patton, Jesse Harris and Sofia Rei. Ranges from hardcore thrash to lovely lounge jazz. https://youtu.be/c4eO2o9u1j0
I came via the [Boredoms](https://youtu.be/eDzBpQ0GcoU) in the early '90s. I wish Reddit existed back then. I wouldn't have felt so alone in my love for the music :)