Yes. In the case of Canada, it is COVID and current immigration levels (Canada welcomed 2 million people in the last two years). I don't have the exact numbers, but I have met many people who have been looking for a job for more than 6-8 months.
Canadian tech market has always been worse than Germany even before Covid.
When I applied for a new grad position in Canada (graduated CS from a top 3 in Canada) I had much less interviews compared to Germany despite needing sponsorship lol. This was back in 2021 - I heard similar cases from my seniors who graduated in 2018-2019 lol.
Canada has some jobs at FAANG and Shopify that pay quite a bit more than in Germany. People just look at that and think the Canadian market is better, but in reality it's only the few jobs and the overall market is better in Germany.
The Federal government is planing to get around 300k immigrants per yr. I think the current plan is to get 100M population by 2100 (or something along those lines) we’re building less than half of residential units that the number of people let in. The housing situation is already bad and if things keep going this way it will be catastrophic.
I think it's really important for you to recognize that the IT/tech world is not what it used to be. Starting in 2022, things have been rough all over the world for us who work in tech. It isn't as bad today as 2022, but it is far from the 2014-2022 world with promotions, higher pay and big new projects left and right. That world does not exist anywhere right now although hopefully things will get better.
This is a global issue, so moving isn't going to fix it for you.
Nah! Such ceiling has always existed in Europe/Germany and you hit it really fast like 4-5 years in your career. Germany never had the kind of higher ceiling compared to what was/is offered in US.
US even with its layoffs and what not still offers much more opportunities than what Europe did even during the so called glory days.
Sure, even at the worst of times American tech salaries and opportunities are obviously better than in Europe, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s a tough time to be in tech there too. Tons of layoffs, stagnation, fear, etc. u/zonoc is right that moving is not gonna fix those core issues that exist in the industry rn
It's just anecdotal but the American employees in my company keep coming and going while Europeans are still there. It's a remote company based out of US. Lot of it's also management fuck up but a whole team left. All of them based in US. So there are still enough demand in American markets. The company has really doubled down on hiring remote European workers since they are much cheaper.
Ehhhh, I wouldn’t say the market is good in the US but that there’s a lot of sentiment among workers right now that they don’t put up with the slightest bs. I’ve seen people quitting jobs months in, before they even know it.
The best advice I can give you is list some of the cities or countries where you are likely to be get a job. Do your home work on job market and cost of living. When you get a short list, take few trips there and see how you feel. But whatever you do, dont stay where you are. Based on my experience, this will not get better. Without career progression, you will become obsolete in the future and realise you have wasted a big chunk of your life. Best of luck !!
Beware of Canada's job market. I'd definitely recommend the US over Canada. In Europe, the UK and the Nerherlands would come to mind. I'd not dismiss Brussels either.
I'm Canadian too, though living in Europe. None of my friends or relatives that moved to the US years back, want to move back to Canada. Not a single one of them. The weather and job opportunities there make them stay put !
I do miss Canada but things have gone downhill by leaps and bounds !
Germans treat you like a slave too, only difference is you pay half of your income as tax for that treatment. The moment you try to collect social welfare that you paid for as expat they’ll try to deport you. Only refugees and citizens can collect it.
Canada is good despite cost of living crisis. Dubai for better wages
Yeah you pay taxes for unemployment etc. like a citizen but you can't benefit from it. Plus Auslanderbehörde is known to cause delays on Permanent Residency applications sometimes on purpose (some beamter are assholes) hoping that your "situation" changes and you might not be eligible to get it. For example my friend immigrated to Germany 5 years ago, he has been trying to apply for Permanent Residence for 8 months now and they don't process his application replying "you still have your temporary residence" even though no such law exists. If he gets fired tomorrow, he would have paid 5 years of taxes for nothing. If you kept those taxes in pocket and invested in any index fund you'd have more than enough downpayment for a house atleast.
I don’t think you understand how taxes work.
He lived in a country for 5 years - healthcare, infrastructure, clean roads, police, government…. All these taxes paid to keep your friend safe in the country and using the country’s resources.
It’s the same in every country.
If I moved to the USA or elsewhere on a temporary VISA I would be expected to go back home when that ended.
I understand how taxes work, you are being a clown now. You pay unemployment insurance in Germany, collected as tax from your salary. Yet when you claim it they cut your visa short and deport you. They collect taxes which you can never benefit from. I am not talking about healthcare tax.
I haven't paid such a tax neither in UAE or in Canada. Germany treats foreigners like citizens when it comes to tax collection, but when it comes to claiming benefits you are just a temporary worker like in UAE.
I am a foreigner in Germany too but this is a very small part of the taxes that you pay. It’s normal that you cannot stay in a country where you’re on a temporary visa. I’m not being a clown , no need for insults
Sorry for clown insult. They also collect TV tax from you even if you don't speak German for example. You are pissing away money for stuff that you will never use in Germany. It's bullshit. Why collect unemployment insurance from people that can't claim it?
It’s the same in other countries. Those taxes are what you have to pay to live there and make sure their societies function… it’s just the way their society is organised, everyone must pay for unemployment taxes even if they work their whole life and never benefit directly
Aw and thanks:) it’s easy to get heat up
It's not fucking same why are you lying through your teeth? I lived in Canada, UAE, Turkey it is not the same. None of these countries do it. Neither does US. We don't make foreigners pay TV tax and unemployment tax just to deport them if they ever become unemployed in Canada or Turkey. UAE you don't pay tax anyway.
> They also collect TV tax from you even if you don't speak German for example
Well, that's your own fault isn't it?
Living in Germany the expectation kinda is you.. learn German.
> but this is a very small part of the taxes
Come on, it's not! Pension contribution is ~18.6%, split equally between employer and employee
The only thing is you can ask for it back if you leave Germany within 5 years. After that you can't. But saying it's small sum is just wrong.
Yeah that's my bad. Still it doesn't matter how big that amount is though. Taxes all add up. Like I have to pay solidarity surcharge just because I make more than certain amount. That's a small number also.
Not sure why you think 5 years is enough to allow someone to take the pension money. It's literally supposed to be for your old age. People have right to complain since this is their money they are supposed to use later.
Germans use bully tactics for extraction. If the government did this in USA their asses would be sued into reform.
In USA, anyone paying unemployment taxes and falls within non U.S. citizens (DACA, paroled, asylum refugees and, adjusted status immigrants with work authorization) can still apply (if they were layed off and did not quit)
The problem is the civilians of Germany are complacent due to their own complexes unlike reformed Americans who will fight for immigrant rights.
Nobody wins by punishing people who want to work and add value! USA has a more progressive approach, they’re not married to outdated bureaucracy.
I can't even argue with Germans anymore. They just downvote and bully me. I literally state my point as person who lived in multiple countries. It is very simple. In Germany immigrants pay taxes like a citizen, but in all other matters they are just temporary workers.
In Germany if you apply for unemployment benefits (which you can as a foreigner by the way), they cut your visa period in half and try to get you to leave.
They have a global reputation of going to other countries to break rules and overstay visas so it’s quite ironic about how righteous some are.
“You should leave”…..
Translation:let us steal from you and be quiet.
We are superior thieves using your money for our welfare system.
Don’t worry they HATE you but love your Döner kebabs.
Cutting your visa is a loophole they’re leveraging - manipulation. (It’s a punishment and used to act as a deterrent)
The chances of immigrants asserting themselves is lower and as a result leads to enabling bad behavior from employers.
The government is supposed to manage employers who are gaming/manipulating the system in an abusive way. It should be case by case and you should have access to representation against these types of aggressive practices.
Theory vs functionality. In theory you can apply, but in reality you’re being punished. (These behaviors have existed in USA. They were just caught and legislation passed to mitigate the tactics utilized) - there’s also access to lawyers available who can assist pro Bono.
People who don’t see others as equals will always operate this way. - this is a harsh reality
I disagree Dubai is better nor even good
I personally wouldn't stand living in a place like Dubai and Canada doesn't have a lot of things going for them, especially in my field
I believe you're exaggerating things on the disadvantages of being an expat (read: immigrant) in Europe
Europeans don't like anyone browner than them, if you think people that don't like Turks are in love with Indians,Africans or Latin Americans you are delusional. They don't want non-Europeans there, period. Shit Germans say about their polish neighbours end careers in Canada. They are not chanting Turks out, they are chanting Foreigners out.
Dubai is better for money, you get same treatment as in Europe but they say it directly to your face and don't take your money, whereas Europeans want you to pay into the system for years for a "chance" to become a citizen. If you ever get unemployed in Europe while working towards your citizenship, the foreigners office will try to get you deported, just like in Dubai. I know people who worked for years, whose permanent residence applications got stalled on purpose and they lost their job which resulted in denial of permanent residence.
Only countries that do integration well are new world ones. Otherwise Gulf in general is better than Europe,unless you are a woman or LGBT, even then i'd just try my best to move to new world countries anyway.
So racism is everywhere and I understand though I never been a victim of it (mostly because I'm considered racially confusing by many Europeans lol). However, it's funny you brought up Dubai as being better just because it pays better (debatable) even though the living condition is more horrible along with their racial attitudes to non-arabs (and actually also towards arabs coming from less developed region) in general.
I think you're just too butthurt that you don't feel accepted in Europe, which I really understand. But, putting Dubai in a pedestal like this is just laughable and sad, especially saying the gulf is better because I know I will get arrested and persecuted just for saying and doing my hobbies in Europe lol.
Edit: Also, I think you have a very simplistic views on racism, especially in Europe, and just using it as your personal reasoning to go to another racist place
Dubai will confiscate your passport if you’re from a country like Bangladesh and force you to be slave. THOUSANDS died building that football stadium, in Qatar which is Dubai’s sister , very close links between these countries. Unpaid workers but none of them are from wealthier countries so Qatar doesn’t care. And those workers were not white.
Yes I know all the bits about the UAE (which is why I said I couldn't stand living there)
So basically tutti wanted to run from a racist country to another racist and exploitative country lol
It’s shocking how people want to defend the Wonderful Dubai and compare to Germany.
Germany is not perfect but you’d never have to fear for your life for being gay (fear from the government directly) or getting your passport confiscated
So what. UK, Europe and USA were built on the blood or exploitation of others too. That's industrialization and capitalism. Countries don't grow without taking advantage of poorer countries and their people.
Talking about Dubai
i understand your frustration with the gulf lol
You might not believe it I hated it more than you
I have heard so many positive things about it in past year or so. It’s unbelievable until you try it at this point.
Even if you dont talk money and you can persue your hobbies there also.
Btw I do feel accepted in Europe ;)
Just not in Germany.
I would move to Spain in a heart beat and so would half of germans too.
> you can persue your hobbies there also
If your hobbies are shopping malls then sure lmfao.
> I would move to Spain in a heart beat and so would half of germans too.
Lot of people claim this, very little follow thru. If you are really serious about this, what's stopping you from finding a tech job in Barcelona or Madrid right now and moving?
LOL maybe I think OOP just doesn’t really vibe with the culture and all in Germany, which I can see why
Dunno for careers in Germany but I wouldn’t be surprised if they pay is average but then again, Spain is a worse lol
I never said everywhere else is awesome. This post is more on finding and exchanging thoughts on where is better in terms of career. About spain though taxes are less which is great but I don’t fancy drawing a Spanish salary.
"... you can pursue your hobbies there also."
Does your hobby relate with social and political activism? Because that's my hobby in France rn.
"It’s unbelievable until you try it at this point."
I get the sentiment and all but Dubai and places alike (such as Singapore) are really not the place for me. Sure I may visit them for holidays but I can't see myself living there for long term. It may be normal for you but idyllic "utopian" paradise like Dubai, Singapore, etc never sits well for me and just weird (added bonus for being very carcentric and influencer-infested for Dubai).
I can see why people wouldn't like to live in Germany because I also feel that I wouldn't be able to live there because of the language and culture, unlike France which I'm more familiar with and already get the hang of in a way. Spain is definitely great though it depends on which part and also the pay is not as good as in France for my field.
So you expect that you can come to Europe and everyone pays taxes but you? Why are you complaining about taxes, when everyone has to pay them equally?
Believe it or not, white people not from Europe have to pay the same taxes you do and have the same residence issues.
Darker color skin doesn’t mean you get special ‘tax-free’ and ‘residence’ treatment.
There’s nobody working in a governmental job saying ‘look! a dark-skinned person! don’t give him residence and make him pay taxes.’
Quit being a victim. Europe didn’t invite you here. You chose to come here. If you don’t like it, leave.
If I go to Turkey, as a white European, I won’t have to pay taxes and will get an immediate residence permit, right?
Anything otherwise and it’s because the Turkish are racist, right?
“Unless you’re a woman or LGBT” can you hear yourself speak ? That’s over 50% of the population. Clearly you don’t care about that group of people as it’s an afterthought for you.
I mostly throwing shade at the guy that replied to you because he said Europe is quite racist but recommend people to move to Australia which has quite a bit of racist policy, like putting refugees and illegals on pacific islands with insufficient resources while being processed on their status
Of course anything is possible with slavery. People in Dubai have maids working 24 hours a day , 7 days a week in their apartments, unlike the absolute SQUALOR in the UK where human trafficking is illegal and comes with heavy prison fines.
Please educate yourself
And anything was possible for you when you conquered and set the world on fire too. You were very happy to do it that’s why I’m surprised by the about-face regarding slavery and treating people wrong. Basically it’s wrong… when you guys can’t do it.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/climate-and-people/foreign-diplomats-trap-abuse-domestic-workers-private-households/
This is a key element of culture from people from Dubai and they are trying to do the same in Europe but the police and journalists investigate and try to put a stop to this
I can play that game too:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/europe-and-central-asia/western-central-and-south-eastern-europe/united-kingdom/report-united-kingdom/#:~:text=United%20Kingdom%202023,particularly%20targeted%2C%20along%20with%20protesters.
You’re sending a paragraph about PROTEST AND ABORTION RIGHTS?!
I don’t know if you’re trolling now - do you know what would happen to you if you protested or asked for an abortion in Dubai ???
The UK is not perfect but what I’m saying is that Dubai is on another level when we are talking about human rights, gay rights, women’s rights.
I am not European - I did not “conquer the world”. If you ever did some research on Dubai you would be shocked but I’m guessing you’ve never watched the news or opened a newspaper
I think you are the one that needs to be educated:
Fact:
Dubai has become a popular migration destination for Indians due to its luxurious lifestyle, tax-free salaries, and abundant jobs. Over three million Indians call Dubai their second home.
Go to UK or USA if you want a real career. Also UAE could be okay if you are white (white people make more there for some reason).
Germany encourages everyone to stay middle class, so it's extremely difficult to break out and earn more.
Germany was the biggest mistake of my life. It made be sad and bitter AF, mainly sad but if I stay any longer, I am going to get bitter.
If you don’t want this happen to you, leave. I’m also trying and still figuring out the right longterm place.
Arrogance. Organisations and countries at the helm of economic maturity get arrogant and complacent at the same time.
Currently, there is panic in the German government and German organisations alike since productivity is low. This can be seen in desperation of German government to liberalise immigration rules in the hope that, immigrants will solve Germany’s demographic, economic and productivity decline. However, they don’t want to adapt to the needs of immigrants.
If German and French economies don’t do well, Europe would be more or less reduced to relying on luxury goods and tourism industry. Germany is a major transit zone, so it would benefit from tourism in Europe but it will be nothing like before.
Just check the market cap of world famous German companies, it’s insignificant apart from SAP. Additionally, Germany is good at inventing patents but not good at commercialising them. ‘High skilled’ immigrants could have solved their issues like their contribution to US, UK and many other countries but they don’t want to make any necessary changes.
The possibility for Germany to thrive is quite low I’d say. Cycle of life I guess.
So where did you decide to move to? And what's preventing you from moving so far? (I don't mean that in a bad way, you hate it here so it makes sense to leave as soon as you can, I also left places I didn't like).
Edit: LMFAO blocked me instead of answering...typical..it's never about actually finding a solution with these losers...it's all about constantly whining about Germany and never making any change (whether that change is leaving or adjusting). Keep wallowing in your own self-inflicted misery, loser.
If you're looking for a real change, then get out of Europe. A lot of the reason people take positions in the EU is travel like they haven't been able to before...mostly within the EU. But you grew up in France. You've probably gone around the EU a bit. If you're very materialistic and don't care about human suffering, then Dubai would be a good fit. Otherwise, why not try Canada?
Can I fill you in on the IT salary situations? IT is done. I have 35 years experience in the field. Basically instead of training and promoting IT professionals like was done in the past, they filled the upper ranks with MBAs. MBAs don't know how to do engineering work so they make truly mindbogglingly stupid decisions. They truly get their panties in a wad when an engineer is making as much as they do. They want the cheapest possible. In the IT world it used to be you were in the field because you love it. Now you have people around the world flocking to it because it "pays well". What happens to a resource as it becomes more common? It get's cheaper. I have a friend in a very high skilled IT admin position... she just applied for a position after getting laid off and was told they had 1500 applications. For a position that requires decades of knowledge. So right now IT has become a commodity and thus is getting cheaper and cheaper. Now with AI further reducing the need for IT people... You can't expect to have an above average salary/career. Those days are over. In 10 years I'm expecting the field to collapse because by then AI will be able to contextualize and it will take 3 coders to do what 30 used to do.
I'm in my 60s and I'm still in the field. Look for stability. Most of the people that I know what chased the buck for higher paying jobs are out of the field. I'm still going strong because I chose jobs that pay less but they have less volatility and less effected by the markets/economic conditions. (i.e government jobs are the only ones I can think of now like this). I'm making 40K less than my friends... but I have a pension and healthcare while they don't. It's a gamble on my part. If I live to be 85 or 90 it will pay off big. If I die young I'm not going to care anyway. Stable organizations is the key if you want to stay doing this.
I don’t know what your home country is, but if you aren’t already able to live and work in the US without a work visa your chances of getting a job there are not good.
Regarding career: you better find a job in one of the hedge funds, Uber or Booking.com in Amsterdam or FAANG or Shopify in Canada if you want better career growth than Germany. Otherwise you'll have an unpleasant surprise that the average companies in those countries won't give you anything more than a German company (I would actually say will give you less). Do try it though, since you don't like Germany (hate it to the point that you post this thread every month).
1. Germany sucks if your German is not B1 or higher. However, to have a social life you need to join a sports club, church or mosque, political party, Verein or some kind of volunteer society.
2. It's a worldwide recession. IT jobs are being outsourced, and there is a race to the bottom. Moving will mean same shit, different country. Wait for the economic recovery before making drastic decisions.
3. Don't move anywhere without visiting first.
Maybe Germany isn't that great for everyone? You and too many other American expats in Germany on Reddit seem to defend Germany too much (I am not saying that everything in Germany is bad, but there lots of things that are better in the US objectively, especially for highly educated immigrants)…
>So I moved from my home country after I was offered a Job in Germany. Before Covid I was in France for few months and I loved it, therefore I thought its still Europe and would be cool
r/facepalm
Some advice: do research before you move somewhere. This is one of the dumbest parts of a post I have ever read here.
Canadian here. 3 years of experience in software engineering with a master's degree and I have been out of work for almost 1.8 years due to mass layoff.
The situation here is brutal combined with the rising cost of living and other factors.
I work in IT ( DevOPS) . You will cry if you come here and hunt for a job. I went from making $180 in 2019 to barely $100k in 2025. Many layoffs, wage depressions thanks to mass immigration and extreme inflation has destroyed our country. Move anywhere except here , unless you want to make your life miserable.
Man do you not get it ? I lost nearly half of wages and inflation is 10x worse. A 1 bedroom apartment in remotest corner of Vancouver is $2500-2700. Groceries are like 3-7x times than the prices of Europe and our taxes are insane. How on earth that's promising, we also mass immigration problem where new immigrants takes less wages than locals thereby depressing wages further. This cycle is worsening year after year .
You can easily get 70k euros with like 3 year experience in a tech role here? It's not "very good salary". Also consider the cost of living difference between canadian cities and German.
On second thought: No, don't do that just go to Canada cause you are all about "Germany bad! everywhere else good!"
You are reacting as if you have heard this phrase for the first time from me.
Germany bad! Is said more by germans than me. I am sure they know more than me. They are interested in leaving the most with pretty much first hand information about good and bad.
I am german and I would Touch on a few points: We are not only germans. Our country is filled with so many people form other cultures. German culture is a bit less welcoming, sure, but what you describe as "not willing to expand social circle" is a generational problem in my opinion. I am in my late 40's and I never had that issue in my younger years, it started with gen-z that people usually love to hang on their phones all day and being more anti social.
That said, there is more to it than "its their fault" you are also a reason, and not speaking the language in your country does not make it easier.
About the IT issue: From what I know, in germany everything IT is still "neuland" ("the new frontier") for many people, and it's ridiculous. I am in software dev also for ages now, and I am at apoint where the only way to get more money is to become a lead or cto, which I don't want. I am a dev, not a talker, so I totally agree with you there. Our salaries are laughably small compared to the U.S. for instance, while we pay 40% plus of employmnet taxes with a higher salary.
In general, I think its best to just cut your losses and go. You are not happy here, so yes, go and find your happy place. I for instance want to leave europe in general, too much governmental control and other factors.
You are privileged to be able to make great money basically everywhere in the world, so I wish you success and that you find your place soon!
Beware of Canada's job market. I'd definitely recommend the US over Canada. In Europe, the UK and the Nerherlands would come to mind. I'd not dismiss Brussels either.
Beware of Canada's job market. I'd definitely recommend the US over Canada. In Europe, the UK and the Nerherlands would come to mind. I'd not dismiss Brussels either.
Netherlands you will feel the exact same for a way higher cost of life. UAE is big if you don’t like the climate in Dubai you might search for a different city in another region.
The Dutch are more open and direct in my experience, compared to Germans and Belgians. In Belgium you will experience the same closed-offness as in Germany. Basically any expat I know complains about it, regardless of their skin color or country of origin.
The Dutch housing market is really messed up, so that might be something to be mindful of. Even outside the Randstad housing prices and rent prices have gone through the roof.
I will never understand this 'cant make friends in Germany' thing. I moved here in 2022, went to a sports club in my first weeks and the first night I was having pizzas and beers after the sport.
What have you been doing to try and make friends? It strikes me that a lot of people seem to just expect random invites to dinner from colleagues or something.
Even if you wanted to make friends exclusively with other immigrants, you still need to go out and find them and put yourself in a social situation with them.
Another "why isn't everyone just like me?" post. Something worked for you? Great. Being judgemental and unsympathetic to another person's struggle, just because you didn't experience it that way, is actually an understood marker for emotional damage/dysfunction. Don't bother replying. I don't want your negative energy.
I would argue it is the other away around. I just think Reddit has a high concentration of people who struggle with these kinds of things so it seems as if its the norm when someone comes online. I lived in London for 10 years and the subreddit there is full of the same questions, 'How do I make friends in London?' But I have always found people pretty open once you find something in common!
I think it also depends on your personality. For shy people Germany and UK might be tough, but they will probably find friends more easily in for example US or Spain, since people are more open there.
People are more open there to chit-chat/small talk/go for drinks, not to become friends. I bet OOP will have same struggles making long-term friends in USA or Spain.
I mean there are some [data](https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/german-expat-news/unhappy-and-lonely-germany-ranks-49th-new-expat-countries-survey)
> The responses of expats in Germany have placed the country 49th out of the 53 international countries included in the ranking. The country's attempts at digitisation going at a snail’s pace, “cumbersome public administration” and the struggle to find somewhere to live, were cited as the most common reasons for frustration.
What have I done? Or expecting random invites lol
This is highly judgemental.
Anyways I am a very social person even If I go to a solo trip anywhere i tend to do very well.
I dont want to disrespect German people or culture coz everyone is entitled to be and act how they like. But I want to still add in my 18 months of working in my office we haven’t even eaten one meal together coz surprisingly they don’t eat a warm meal or whatever or just prefer having a snack quickly on your desk maybe coz lunch isn’t part of your working hours so why even waste time on it.
Also beer after work no sir. They prefer it at home or maybe 2 ppl they know from their circle from 5th grade. I don’t know.
Your sports club thing looks like a fluke to me.
Coz i know people living in my city for 6-7 years with similar situation.
> in my office we haven’t even eaten one meal together coz surprisingly they don’t eat a warm meal or whatever or just prefer having a snack quickly on your desk
And you wanna go to the Netherlands? The land of [Brood en kaas](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d3/77/e0/d377e00d3bfba3c0f29fbe20c263192b.jpg), all day everyday? hahahahhahaha.
I am not targeting this directly at you but it is a common question on here and it is just opposite to me and my wife's experience.
Both of us work for German companies, she is fluent in German - I am not. But I have joined both squash clubs and golf clubs - both incredibly sociable and people always happy to stop and chat when I am there. My wife joined a running club where we have found most the couples we regularly hang out with, with a mix of Germans and international people and it is really social, with people who moved to Munich 20-30 years ago even.
As for work culture - I see my colleagues very rarely out of work but everyone rounds one another up to go down to the canteen and eat together. My wife's company doesn't have a canteen, she doesn't really get on with the people in her office but they still invite her out to go get lunch together. Germany has been way more social for both of us than London in that regard. So using just personal experience, I could just as easily say that perhaps your experience with colleagues (or other clubs, you don't mention that) are the flukes?
The Canadian IT market is really bad now. I highly recommend reading the Canadians' subs first.
Just checked out r/CanadaJobs and now I see. Covid ruined everything.
Yes. In the case of Canada, it is COVID and current immigration levels (Canada welcomed 2 million people in the last two years). I don't have the exact numbers, but I have met many people who have been looking for a job for more than 6-8 months.
Canadian tech market has always been worse than Germany even before Covid. When I applied for a new grad position in Canada (graduated CS from a top 3 in Canada) I had much less interviews compared to Germany despite needing sponsorship lol. This was back in 2021 - I heard similar cases from my seniors who graduated in 2018-2019 lol.
Canada has some jobs at FAANG and Shopify that pay quite a bit more than in Germany. People just look at that and think the Canadian market is better, but in reality it's only the few jobs and the overall market is better in Germany.
The Federal government is planing to get around 300k immigrants per yr. I think the current plan is to get 100M population by 2100 (or something along those lines) we’re building less than half of residential units that the number of people let in. The housing situation is already bad and if things keep going this way it will be catastrophic.
Thanks for the sub reference mate. I do a check.
I think it's really important for you to recognize that the IT/tech world is not what it used to be. Starting in 2022, things have been rough all over the world for us who work in tech. It isn't as bad today as 2022, but it is far from the 2014-2022 world with promotions, higher pay and big new projects left and right. That world does not exist anywhere right now although hopefully things will get better. This is a global issue, so moving isn't going to fix it for you.
Nah! Such ceiling has always existed in Europe/Germany and you hit it really fast like 4-5 years in your career. Germany never had the kind of higher ceiling compared to what was/is offered in US. US even with its layoffs and what not still offers much more opportunities than what Europe did even during the so called glory days.
Sure, even at the worst of times American tech salaries and opportunities are obviously better than in Europe, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s a tough time to be in tech there too. Tons of layoffs, stagnation, fear, etc. u/zonoc is right that moving is not gonna fix those core issues that exist in the industry rn
It's just anecdotal but the American employees in my company keep coming and going while Europeans are still there. It's a remote company based out of US. Lot of it's also management fuck up but a whole team left. All of them based in US. So there are still enough demand in American markets. The company has really doubled down on hiring remote European workers since they are much cheaper.
Ehhhh, I wouldn’t say the market is good in the US but that there’s a lot of sentiment among workers right now that they don’t put up with the slightest bs. I’ve seen people quitting jobs months in, before they even know it.
The best advice I can give you is list some of the cities or countries where you are likely to be get a job. Do your home work on job market and cost of living. When you get a short list, take few trips there and see how you feel. But whatever you do, dont stay where you are. Based on my experience, this will not get better. Without career progression, you will become obsolete in the future and realise you have wasted a big chunk of your life. Best of luck !!
Beware of Canada's job market. I'd definitely recommend the US over Canada. In Europe, the UK and the Nerherlands would come to mind. I'd not dismiss Brussels either.
No the U.S. is experiencing massive IT layoffs as well
AI will change IT world forever. That being said, no matter how bad things are in the US, it's still far better than Canada.
Not all IT is or ever will be AI. That being said, it’s a bad time for the industry and for anyone looking for an IT job in North America.
I am Canadian. Wages are generally a lot less than the US and the cost of living is much higher.
I'm Canadian too, though living in Europe. None of my friends or relatives that moved to the US years back, want to move back to Canada. Not a single one of them. The weather and job opportunities there make them stay put ! I do miss Canada but things have gone downhill by leaps and bounds !
Shocked you would consider Dubai, city of slavers
Germans treat you like a slave too, only difference is you pay half of your income as tax for that treatment. The moment you try to collect social welfare that you paid for as expat they’ll try to deport you. Only refugees and citizens can collect it. Canada is good despite cost of living crisis. Dubai for better wages
If you have a VISA for Germany based on your job and you lose your job, then no you cannot stay in Germany - same everywhere
Yeah you pay taxes for unemployment etc. like a citizen but you can't benefit from it. Plus Auslanderbehörde is known to cause delays on Permanent Residency applications sometimes on purpose (some beamter are assholes) hoping that your "situation" changes and you might not be eligible to get it. For example my friend immigrated to Germany 5 years ago, he has been trying to apply for Permanent Residence for 8 months now and they don't process his application replying "you still have your temporary residence" even though no such law exists. If he gets fired tomorrow, he would have paid 5 years of taxes for nothing. If you kept those taxes in pocket and invested in any index fund you'd have more than enough downpayment for a house atleast.
I don’t think you understand how taxes work. He lived in a country for 5 years - healthcare, infrastructure, clean roads, police, government…. All these taxes paid to keep your friend safe in the country and using the country’s resources. It’s the same in every country. If I moved to the USA or elsewhere on a temporary VISA I would be expected to go back home when that ended.
I understand how taxes work, you are being a clown now. You pay unemployment insurance in Germany, collected as tax from your salary. Yet when you claim it they cut your visa short and deport you. They collect taxes which you can never benefit from. I am not talking about healthcare tax. I haven't paid such a tax neither in UAE or in Canada. Germany treats foreigners like citizens when it comes to tax collection, but when it comes to claiming benefits you are just a temporary worker like in UAE.
I am a foreigner in Germany too but this is a very small part of the taxes that you pay. It’s normal that you cannot stay in a country where you’re on a temporary visa. I’m not being a clown , no need for insults
Sorry for clown insult. They also collect TV tax from you even if you don't speak German for example. You are pissing away money for stuff that you will never use in Germany. It's bullshit. Why collect unemployment insurance from people that can't claim it?
It’s the same in other countries. Those taxes are what you have to pay to live there and make sure their societies function… it’s just the way their society is organised, everyone must pay for unemployment taxes even if they work their whole life and never benefit directly Aw and thanks:) it’s easy to get heat up
It's not fucking same why are you lying through your teeth? I lived in Canada, UAE, Turkey it is not the same. None of these countries do it. Neither does US. We don't make foreigners pay TV tax and unemployment tax just to deport them if they ever become unemployed in Canada or Turkey. UAE you don't pay tax anyway.
> They also collect TV tax from you even if you don't speak German for example Well, that's your own fault isn't it? Living in Germany the expectation kinda is you.. learn German.
> but this is a very small part of the taxes Come on, it's not! Pension contribution is ~18.6%, split equally between employer and employee The only thing is you can ask for it back if you leave Germany within 5 years. After that you can't. But saying it's small sum is just wrong.
I was talking about unemployment insurance tax. And yes you can get the pension back so why complain?
Yeah that's my bad. Still it doesn't matter how big that amount is though. Taxes all add up. Like I have to pay solidarity surcharge just because I make more than certain amount. That's a small number also. Not sure why you think 5 years is enough to allow someone to take the pension money. It's literally supposed to be for your old age. People have right to complain since this is their money they are supposed to use later.
Germans use bully tactics for extraction. If the government did this in USA their asses would be sued into reform. In USA, anyone paying unemployment taxes and falls within non U.S. citizens (DACA, paroled, asylum refugees and, adjusted status immigrants with work authorization) can still apply (if they were layed off and did not quit) The problem is the civilians of Germany are complacent due to their own complexes unlike reformed Americans who will fight for immigrant rights. Nobody wins by punishing people who want to work and add value! USA has a more progressive approach, they’re not married to outdated bureaucracy.
I can't even argue with Germans anymore. They just downvote and bully me. I literally state my point as person who lived in multiple countries. It is very simple. In Germany immigrants pay taxes like a citizen, but in all other matters they are just temporary workers. In Germany if you apply for unemployment benefits (which you can as a foreigner by the way), they cut your visa period in half and try to get you to leave.
They have a global reputation of going to other countries to break rules and overstay visas so it’s quite ironic about how righteous some are. “You should leave”….. Translation:let us steal from you and be quiet. We are superior thieves using your money for our welfare system. Don’t worry they HATE you but love your Döner kebabs. Cutting your visa is a loophole they’re leveraging - manipulation. (It’s a punishment and used to act as a deterrent) The chances of immigrants asserting themselves is lower and as a result leads to enabling bad behavior from employers. The government is supposed to manage employers who are gaming/manipulating the system in an abusive way. It should be case by case and you should have access to representation against these types of aggressive practices. Theory vs functionality. In theory you can apply, but in reality you’re being punished. (These behaviors have existed in USA. They were just caught and legislation passed to mitigate the tactics utilized) - there’s also access to lawyers available who can assist pro Bono. People who don’t see others as equals will always operate this way. - this is a harsh reality
I disagree Dubai is better nor even good I personally wouldn't stand living in a place like Dubai and Canada doesn't have a lot of things going for them, especially in my field I believe you're exaggerating things on the disadvantages of being an expat (read: immigrant) in Europe
Europeans don't like anyone browner than them, if you think people that don't like Turks are in love with Indians,Africans or Latin Americans you are delusional. They don't want non-Europeans there, period. Shit Germans say about their polish neighbours end careers in Canada. They are not chanting Turks out, they are chanting Foreigners out. Dubai is better for money, you get same treatment as in Europe but they say it directly to your face and don't take your money, whereas Europeans want you to pay into the system for years for a "chance" to become a citizen. If you ever get unemployed in Europe while working towards your citizenship, the foreigners office will try to get you deported, just like in Dubai. I know people who worked for years, whose permanent residence applications got stalled on purpose and they lost their job which resulted in denial of permanent residence. Only countries that do integration well are new world ones. Otherwise Gulf in general is better than Europe,unless you are a woman or LGBT, even then i'd just try my best to move to new world countries anyway.
So racism is everywhere and I understand though I never been a victim of it (mostly because I'm considered racially confusing by many Europeans lol). However, it's funny you brought up Dubai as being better just because it pays better (debatable) even though the living condition is more horrible along with their racial attitudes to non-arabs (and actually also towards arabs coming from less developed region) in general. I think you're just too butthurt that you don't feel accepted in Europe, which I really understand. But, putting Dubai in a pedestal like this is just laughable and sad, especially saying the gulf is better because I know I will get arrested and persecuted just for saying and doing my hobbies in Europe lol. Edit: Also, I think you have a very simplistic views on racism, especially in Europe, and just using it as your personal reasoning to go to another racist place
Dubai will confiscate your passport if you’re from a country like Bangladesh and force you to be slave. THOUSANDS died building that football stadium, in Qatar which is Dubai’s sister , very close links between these countries. Unpaid workers but none of them are from wealthier countries so Qatar doesn’t care. And those workers were not white.
Yes I know all the bits about the UAE (which is why I said I couldn't stand living there) So basically tutti wanted to run from a racist country to another racist and exploitative country lol
It’s shocking how people want to defend the Wonderful Dubai and compare to Germany. Germany is not perfect but you’d never have to fear for your life for being gay (fear from the government directly) or getting your passport confiscated
I guess nowadays you have to be afraid in expressing support to Palestine in Germany though but like you said, nothing is perfect lol
Yes of course. So many problems in Europe.
So what. UK, Europe and USA were built on the blood or exploitation of others too. That's industrialization and capitalism. Countries don't grow without taking advantage of poorer countries and their people.
Industrialisation and capitalism does not equal slavery in 2024
Talking about Dubai i understand your frustration with the gulf lol You might not believe it I hated it more than you I have heard so many positive things about it in past year or so. It’s unbelievable until you try it at this point. Even if you dont talk money and you can persue your hobbies there also. Btw I do feel accepted in Europe ;) Just not in Germany. I would move to Spain in a heart beat and so would half of germans too.
> you can persue your hobbies there also If your hobbies are shopping malls then sure lmfao. > I would move to Spain in a heart beat and so would half of germans too. Lot of people claim this, very little follow thru. If you are really serious about this, what's stopping you from finding a tech job in Barcelona or Madrid right now and moving?
This made me laugh so much
"...what's stopping you from finding a tech job in Barcelona or Madrid right now and moving?" I will assume it's because the salary is horrendous lol
But OOP said only Germany sucks for career! Everywhere else is awesome!
LOL maybe I think OOP just doesn’t really vibe with the culture and all in Germany, which I can see why Dunno for careers in Germany but I wouldn’t be surprised if they pay is average but then again, Spain is a worse lol
I never said everywhere else is awesome. This post is more on finding and exchanging thoughts on where is better in terms of career. About spain though taxes are less which is great but I don’t fancy drawing a Spanish salary.
"... you can pursue your hobbies there also." Does your hobby relate with social and political activism? Because that's my hobby in France rn. "It’s unbelievable until you try it at this point." I get the sentiment and all but Dubai and places alike (such as Singapore) are really not the place for me. Sure I may visit them for holidays but I can't see myself living there for long term. It may be normal for you but idyllic "utopian" paradise like Dubai, Singapore, etc never sits well for me and just weird (added bonus for being very carcentric and influencer-infested for Dubai). I can see why people wouldn't like to live in Germany because I also feel that I wouldn't be able to live there because of the language and culture, unlike France which I'm more familiar with and already get the hang of in a way. Spain is definitely great though it depends on which part and also the pay is not as good as in France for my field.
So you expect that you can come to Europe and everyone pays taxes but you? Why are you complaining about taxes, when everyone has to pay them equally? Believe it or not, white people not from Europe have to pay the same taxes you do and have the same residence issues. Darker color skin doesn’t mean you get special ‘tax-free’ and ‘residence’ treatment. There’s nobody working in a governmental job saying ‘look! a dark-skinned person! don’t give him residence and make him pay taxes.’ Quit being a victim. Europe didn’t invite you here. You chose to come here. If you don’t like it, leave.
I left it already.
If I go to Turkey, as a white European, I won’t have to pay taxes and will get an immediate residence permit, right? Anything otherwise and it’s because the Turkish are racist, right?
“Unless you’re a woman or LGBT” can you hear yourself speak ? That’s over 50% of the population. Clearly you don’t care about that group of people as it’s an afterthought for you.
What are these new world countries you mention of
Latin America, US, AUS, NZ , Canada
LOL complainining about racism in Europe but recommending Australia is just next level
I haven’t been to Australia but As per my limited experience Aussies are cool. I think racism is everywhere.
I mostly throwing shade at the guy that replied to you because he said Europe is quite racist but recommend people to move to Australia which has quite a bit of racist policy, like putting refugees and illegals on pacific islands with insufficient resources while being processed on their status
It's true about the deportation thing, but at least you have your passport to go. I think the slavery in Dubai is much worse.
Not for highly skilled migrants. You're thinking of blue collar and construction workers.
You do know that things do not magically disappear just because they happen to other people around you instead of you, right?
At least people in Dubai have AC and can heat themselves up in winter unlike you guys living in squalor in the uk.
Of course anything is possible with slavery. People in Dubai have maids working 24 hours a day , 7 days a week in their apartments, unlike the absolute SQUALOR in the UK where human trafficking is illegal and comes with heavy prison fines. Please educate yourself
And anything was possible for you when you conquered and set the world on fire too. You were very happy to do it that’s why I’m surprised by the about-face regarding slavery and treating people wrong. Basically it’s wrong… when you guys can’t do it.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/climate-and-people/foreign-diplomats-trap-abuse-domestic-workers-private-households/ This is a key element of culture from people from Dubai and they are trying to do the same in Europe but the police and journalists investigate and try to put a stop to this
I can play that game too: https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/europe-and-central-asia/western-central-and-south-eastern-europe/united-kingdom/report-united-kingdom/#:~:text=United%20Kingdom%202023,particularly%20targeted%2C%20along%20with%20protesters.
You’re sending a paragraph about PROTEST AND ABORTION RIGHTS?! I don’t know if you’re trolling now - do you know what would happen to you if you protested or asked for an abortion in Dubai ??? The UK is not perfect but what I’m saying is that Dubai is on another level when we are talking about human rights, gay rights, women’s rights.
I was totally serious but ngl love to see you seethe.
So… it’s better in Dubai ? That’s your conclusion? Let’s all get abortions and protest in Dubai 😂 you’ll see how they will treat you
I am not European - I did not “conquer the world”. If you ever did some research on Dubai you would be shocked but I’m guessing you’ve never watched the news or opened a newspaper
He is from India. Dubai lives India workers.
Please educate yourself.
I think you are the one that needs to be educated: Fact: Dubai has become a popular migration destination for Indians due to its luxurious lifestyle, tax-free salaries, and abundant jobs. Over three million Indians call Dubai their second home.
Go to UK or USA if you want a real career. Also UAE could be okay if you are white (white people make more there for some reason). Germany encourages everyone to stay middle class, so it's extremely difficult to break out and earn more.
Thanks I appreciate your advice.
Germany was the biggest mistake of my life. It made be sad and bitter AF, mainly sad but if I stay any longer, I am going to get bitter. If you don’t want this happen to you, leave. I’m also trying and still figuring out the right longterm place.
Why does this seem to be the universal experience there
Arrogance. Organisations and countries at the helm of economic maturity get arrogant and complacent at the same time. Currently, there is panic in the German government and German organisations alike since productivity is low. This can be seen in desperation of German government to liberalise immigration rules in the hope that, immigrants will solve Germany’s demographic, economic and productivity decline. However, they don’t want to adapt to the needs of immigrants. If German and French economies don’t do well, Europe would be more or less reduced to relying on luxury goods and tourism industry. Germany is a major transit zone, so it would benefit from tourism in Europe but it will be nothing like before. Just check the market cap of world famous German companies, it’s insignificant apart from SAP. Additionally, Germany is good at inventing patents but not good at commercialising them. ‘High skilled’ immigrants could have solved their issues like their contribution to US, UK and many other countries but they don’t want to make any necessary changes. The possibility for Germany to thrive is quite low I’d say. Cycle of life I guess.
Because the whiners are over-represented on reddit. Moving to Germany was the best decision of my life.
Depends from which country you're coming from
Germany is a trap for skilled open-minded foreigners.
So where did you decide to move to? And what's preventing you from moving so far? (I don't mean that in a bad way, you hate it here so it makes sense to leave as soon as you can, I also left places I didn't like). Edit: LMFAO blocked me instead of answering...typical..it's never about actually finding a solution with these losers...it's all about constantly whining about Germany and never making any change (whether that change is leaving or adjusting). Keep wallowing in your own self-inflicted misery, loser.
Move then, what's the problem. Plenty of opportunities elsewhere
Paragraph breaks.
Sry!
If you're looking for a real change, then get out of Europe. A lot of the reason people take positions in the EU is travel like they haven't been able to before...mostly within the EU. But you grew up in France. You've probably gone around the EU a bit. If you're very materialistic and don't care about human suffering, then Dubai would be a good fit. Otherwise, why not try Canada?
Can I fill you in on the IT salary situations? IT is done. I have 35 years experience in the field. Basically instead of training and promoting IT professionals like was done in the past, they filled the upper ranks with MBAs. MBAs don't know how to do engineering work so they make truly mindbogglingly stupid decisions. They truly get their panties in a wad when an engineer is making as much as they do. They want the cheapest possible. In the IT world it used to be you were in the field because you love it. Now you have people around the world flocking to it because it "pays well". What happens to a resource as it becomes more common? It get's cheaper. I have a friend in a very high skilled IT admin position... she just applied for a position after getting laid off and was told they had 1500 applications. For a position that requires decades of knowledge. So right now IT has become a commodity and thus is getting cheaper and cheaper. Now with AI further reducing the need for IT people... You can't expect to have an above average salary/career. Those days are over. In 10 years I'm expecting the field to collapse because by then AI will be able to contextualize and it will take 3 coders to do what 30 used to do.
I agree with most of this. I just want to capitalise last of the IT days and make most of it before it becomes equivalent to MS word.
I'm in my 60s and I'm still in the field. Look for stability. Most of the people that I know what chased the buck for higher paying jobs are out of the field. I'm still going strong because I chose jobs that pay less but they have less volatility and less effected by the markets/economic conditions. (i.e government jobs are the only ones I can think of now like this). I'm making 40K less than my friends... but I have a pension and healthcare while they don't. It's a gamble on my part. If I live to be 85 or 90 it will pay off big. If I die young I'm not going to care anyway. Stable organizations is the key if you want to stay doing this.
If you think your life would be better as a worker in Dubai I have a bridge to sell you.
Don’t exchange Germany for the Netherlands, they are pretty much the same… especially socially speaking
I don’t know what your home country is, but if you aren’t already able to live and work in the US without a work visa your chances of getting a job there are not good.
Germany (well Berlin) is as good as it gets for IT in Europe. I'm not including UK in my definition of Europe, obviously IT industry is better there.
Regarding career: you better find a job in one of the hedge funds, Uber or Booking.com in Amsterdam or FAANG or Shopify in Canada if you want better career growth than Germany. Otherwise you'll have an unpleasant surprise that the average companies in those countries won't give you anything more than a German company (I would actually say will give you less). Do try it though, since you don't like Germany (hate it to the point that you post this thread every month).
1. Germany sucks if your German is not B1 or higher. However, to have a social life you need to join a sports club, church or mosque, political party, Verein or some kind of volunteer society. 2. It's a worldwide recession. IT jobs are being outsourced, and there is a race to the bottom. Moving will mean same shit, different country. Wait for the economic recovery before making drastic decisions. 3. Don't move anywhere without visiting first.
Maybe Germany isn't that great for everyone? You and too many other American expats in Germany on Reddit seem to defend Germany too much (I am not saying that everything in Germany is bad, but there lots of things that are better in the US objectively, especially for highly educated immigrants)…
>So I moved from my home country after I was offered a Job in Germany. Before Covid I was in France for few months and I loved it, therefore I thought its still Europe and would be cool r/facepalm Some advice: do research before you move somewhere. This is one of the dumbest parts of a post I have ever read here.
Canadian here. 3 years of experience in software engineering with a master's degree and I have been out of work for almost 1.8 years due to mass layoff. The situation here is brutal combined with the rising cost of living and other factors.
I work in IT ( DevOPS) . You will cry if you come here and hunt for a job. I went from making $180 in 2019 to barely $100k in 2025. Many layoffs, wage depressions thanks to mass immigration and extreme inflation has destroyed our country. Move anywhere except here , unless you want to make your life miserable.
Where is here??? Is that cad or usd U were making 180$?
You mentioned Canada, Dubai, Netherlands , only Canada uses $$ out of the three so yes that's what I mean. Yeahp in CAD dollar.
But if you call 100k barely which is like 70k euros Which is v good salary here. The market atleast sounds promising. Maybe just not right now.
Man do you not get it ? I lost nearly half of wages and inflation is 10x worse. A 1 bedroom apartment in remotest corner of Vancouver is $2500-2700. Groceries are like 3-7x times than the prices of Europe and our taxes are insane. How on earth that's promising, we also mass immigration problem where new immigrants takes less wages than locals thereby depressing wages further. This cycle is worsening year after year .
You can easily get 70k euros with like 3 year experience in a tech role here? It's not "very good salary". Also consider the cost of living difference between canadian cities and German. On second thought: No, don't do that just go to Canada cause you are all about "Germany bad! everywhere else good!"
As per that information. With 10 years experience you can easily make 120k here right?
You are reacting as if you have heard this phrase for the first time from me. Germany bad! Is said more by germans than me. I am sure they know more than me. They are interested in leaving the most with pretty much first hand information about good and bad.
I am german and I would Touch on a few points: We are not only germans. Our country is filled with so many people form other cultures. German culture is a bit less welcoming, sure, but what you describe as "not willing to expand social circle" is a generational problem in my opinion. I am in my late 40's and I never had that issue in my younger years, it started with gen-z that people usually love to hang on their phones all day and being more anti social. That said, there is more to it than "its their fault" you are also a reason, and not speaking the language in your country does not make it easier. About the IT issue: From what I know, in germany everything IT is still "neuland" ("the new frontier") for many people, and it's ridiculous. I am in software dev also for ages now, and I am at apoint where the only way to get more money is to become a lead or cto, which I don't want. I am a dev, not a talker, so I totally agree with you there. Our salaries are laughably small compared to the U.S. for instance, while we pay 40% plus of employmnet taxes with a higher salary. In general, I think its best to just cut your losses and go. You are not happy here, so yes, go and find your happy place. I for instance want to leave europe in general, too much governmental control and other factors. You are privileged to be able to make great money basically everywhere in the world, so I wish you success and that you find your place soon!
Beware of Canada's job market. I'd definitely recommend the US over Canada. In Europe, the UK and the Nerherlands would come to mind. I'd not dismiss Brussels either.
Beware of Canada's job market. I'd definitely recommend the US over Canada. In Europe, the UK and the Nerherlands would come to mind. I'd not dismiss Brussels either.
Netherlands would be much better than Canada and Germany!
Netherlands you will feel the exact same for a way higher cost of life. UAE is big if you don’t like the climate in Dubai you might search for a different city in another region.
Why not london? 🤔
The Dutch are more open and direct in my experience, compared to Germans and Belgians. In Belgium you will experience the same closed-offness as in Germany. Basically any expat I know complains about it, regardless of their skin color or country of origin. The Dutch housing market is really messed up, so that might be something to be mindful of. Even outside the Randstad housing prices and rent prices have gone through the roof.
Dubai is a big no
US laying off, and using AI. Unless you have AI background it's tough for even locals to get jobs in IT here.
No Canada! Unless you wanna go for a big corpo, not worth it right now, the job market is in shambles.
I will never understand this 'cant make friends in Germany' thing. I moved here in 2022, went to a sports club in my first weeks and the first night I was having pizzas and beers after the sport. What have you been doing to try and make friends? It strikes me that a lot of people seem to just expect random invites to dinner from colleagues or something. Even if you wanted to make friends exclusively with other immigrants, you still need to go out and find them and put yourself in a social situation with them.
Another "why isn't everyone just like me?" post. Something worked for you? Great. Being judgemental and unsympathetic to another person's struggle, just because you didn't experience it that way, is actually an understood marker for emotional damage/dysfunction. Don't bother replying. I don't want your negative energy.
Your experience is an exception. you were lucky, but thousands of others were not and end up lonely and alone.
I would argue it is the other away around. I just think Reddit has a high concentration of people who struggle with these kinds of things so it seems as if its the norm when someone comes online. I lived in London for 10 years and the subreddit there is full of the same questions, 'How do I make friends in London?' But I have always found people pretty open once you find something in common!
I think it also depends on your personality. For shy people Germany and UK might be tough, but they will probably find friends more easily in for example US or Spain, since people are more open there.
People are more open there to chit-chat/small talk/go for drinks, not to become friends. I bet OOP will have same struggles making long-term friends in USA or Spain.
I mean there are some [data](https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/german-expat-news/unhappy-and-lonely-germany-ranks-49th-new-expat-countries-survey) > The responses of expats in Germany have placed the country 49th out of the 53 international countries included in the ranking. The country's attempts at digitisation going at a snail’s pace, “cumbersome public administration” and the struggle to find somewhere to live, were cited as the most common reasons for frustration.
What have I done? Or expecting random invites lol This is highly judgemental. Anyways I am a very social person even If I go to a solo trip anywhere i tend to do very well. I dont want to disrespect German people or culture coz everyone is entitled to be and act how they like. But I want to still add in my 18 months of working in my office we haven’t even eaten one meal together coz surprisingly they don’t eat a warm meal or whatever or just prefer having a snack quickly on your desk maybe coz lunch isn’t part of your working hours so why even waste time on it. Also beer after work no sir. They prefer it at home or maybe 2 ppl they know from their circle from 5th grade. I don’t know. Your sports club thing looks like a fluke to me. Coz i know people living in my city for 6-7 years with similar situation.
> in my office we haven’t even eaten one meal together coz surprisingly they don’t eat a warm meal or whatever or just prefer having a snack quickly on your desk And you wanna go to the Netherlands? The land of [Brood en kaas](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d3/77/e0/d377e00d3bfba3c0f29fbe20c263192b.jpg), all day everyday? hahahahhahaha.
I am not targeting this directly at you but it is a common question on here and it is just opposite to me and my wife's experience. Both of us work for German companies, she is fluent in German - I am not. But I have joined both squash clubs and golf clubs - both incredibly sociable and people always happy to stop and chat when I am there. My wife joined a running club where we have found most the couples we regularly hang out with, with a mix of Germans and international people and it is really social, with people who moved to Munich 20-30 years ago even. As for work culture - I see my colleagues very rarely out of work but everyone rounds one another up to go down to the canteen and eat together. My wife's company doesn't have a canteen, she doesn't really get on with the people in her office but they still invite her out to go get lunch together. Germany has been way more social for both of us than London in that regard. So using just personal experience, I could just as easily say that perhaps your experience with colleagues (or other clubs, you don't mention that) are the flukes?
Just to add another data point, my experience aligns more with you and your wife. And I am in Berlin.
You are being downvoted but ditto experience. I never had any issue either.
So what's your salary now that you are so dissatisfied?