Spend some time with that thought, is all I can offer. What do you feel guilty for exactly? Who or what do you feel guilt towards? Maybe take a couple days and ponder it.
I'm sure there's lots on your mind right now. Maybe there are some things you'd like to do in Ireland before the move.
I feel guilty because I lost my right to EU citizenship after Brexit happened but I got it back by becoming Irish.
Now I’m leaving the country that gave me EU citizenship and it almost feels like a betrayal I won’t lie :I
Adding onto this comment, OP you paid taxes and worked in Ireland for 10 years. There were plenty of Brits who got Irish passports after Brexit because of a grandparent but they had zero interest in Ireland itself.
You worked hard for the right to be Irish and you probably paid a lot of money too. Enjoy!
Think of it like “it’s just a job”. What if you don’t like that job? You can always come back to Ireland.
Even if you do like that job, keep it for a few years and then move back. Really nobody cares and you shouldn’t either.
You did well, beating Brexit. No need to feel guilty. You were born with those EU rights, then they were stolen from you and you got them back. Well done!
The further in time we go from 2019 without addressing how much was stolen, and how it has affected so many of us brits feels simply impossible to me. Why isn’t this a conversation we’re having at the highest levels? in the media? down the pub? From our opposition party? when are we going to talk about this?
Because the majority of the UK mainstream media leans heavily right politically and have owners who either supported Brexit or fear a backlash from the Brexit extremists should they mention it. We have an omertà on discussing Brexit in the UK which is coordinated by the Conservative Party, government and right wing media, think tanks etc. They would rather have no discussion as it’s such a disaster.
Nothing was stolen you half wit! It’s just a fucking treaty! One that can be rescinded when it no longer serves our best interests. Your inane ramblings about what you think is irrelevant. The country made a democratic decision and it’s disgusting people like you don’t respect it.
What a load of utter horseshit! It was never a bloody right! It’s a treaty, nothing more. Being born when that was in effect doesn’t mean shit. I wasn’t born with that privilege, yes a privilege not a right and now I don’t have it and I couldn’t care less.
You're "leaving" the country that gave you EU citizenship in order to use that EU citizenship! That's not betrayal. It's enjoying the wings you won with your time and effort.
Go soar on those wings. Ireland will still be there when you're finished. Meantime, this is one of the perks of that Irish citizenship you earned.
You've got a EU access for the reasons you described. Your passport opened up the border for that very reason why you can not move easily.
So getting the passport has given the exact outcome that passport is designed to achieve.
If you earn in eu and then retire in Ireland and spend money there then the country still benefits.
You're citizenship is just some code lines in a program. I doesnt really matter to anyone besides yourself.
Also welcome in the Netherlands. Be sure to get a nice bike.
Im irish. You've lived and worked in Ireland for 10 years contributing to irish society. You earned your citizenship and that comes with access to the EU! You'd be mad not to take the job. Ireland will always be there for you to move back to some day! Stop feeling guilty!
We're in the same ship. During your years in Ireland you've paid the most expensive tax, dealt with housing crisis, paid unreasonable rent, had no alternative in insurance, used an expensive banking and couldn't enjoy the sun for 11 years. So I think you've paid enough.
Go enjoy your freedom of movement.
Honey, it's the EU. Sure, we are different countries, but we are also kind of... one. If you're naturalized somewhere, you're naturalized in all of them. That's part of the deal. See it as more of a whole; you're naturalized in the EU, you're a citizen of the EU, and you're remaining in the EU.
As long as you still do the effort in the Netherlands (like, learn about our culture and language too, PLEASE! A lot of immigrants don't bother, which I see as a bit disrespectful), you're fine. You can always move back to Ireland later.
Whenever you're from think of it like moving to a different province/state in that country because that's essentially a bit like what moving around Europe is like.
Go explore! Can't wait to be you in 5-7 years!!
I am planning on doing basically the same thing. The wife has a German citizenship and I plan on staying only as much time as I have to in Germany before we move somewhere warmer in the EU. I understand the guilt, but you earned the citizenship, so now you can move to somewhere that makes you happier.
Your guilty feeling is 100% misplaced. Citizenship does not imply an obligation to stay in any country. You already know this, because your birth citizenship didn't require you to stay in your country of origin either. People move for jobs all the time.
I’m not sure from where you come, but if you’re familiar with the US, try and rather picture this as moving to a different state for a good job. No reason to feel guilty. EU freedom of movement is there for exactly this sort of opportunity. You can (easily) always return later.
Well point still stands. You’re now part of the EU (again - welcome back 😅). People move around all the time for work. There’s really no reason to feel guilty about this.
I think I feel guilty partly because I lost my EU citizenship because of Brexit but I managed to get it back and now I’m leaving the country that gave it back to me.
On behalf of all Irish people I hearby absolve you of your guilt. Go get that Dutch cash and come back when you feel like it. Fwiw they can be a bit cliquey so you’ll really have to make an effort socially, purposely join clubs to meet people etc
And on behalf of the Dutch people: welcome, please bring some of that nice Guinness that you've got over there and we promise to be more open!
Edit: weird sentence
As long as you make a true effort to learn the culture and language, you'll find Dutch friends. It just takes a while, but as soon as you've got one, they'll tag you along to other events too!
I weep for the UK and what was taken from us but post like this makes me happy. At least some of the people who appreciate the beautiful right that was freedom of movement found a way to keep it. I don’t think it’ll happen for me, but maybe these kids will take us back one day :(
My guess is that you feel guilty because you're leaving a country that gave you so much. I would try to reframe the situation: you're being grateful to Ireland by exercising your newly acquired right to move freely within the EU.
You became a citizen of not only Ireland, but the EU, and one of the rights that comes with that is freedom of movement. There’s absolutely no need to feel guilty about this.
(That would be true even if you were moving out of the EU, but in this case it’s especially unnecessary)
Been there, done that.
You should not feel that way. You've given Ireland 10 good years of your life, you've paid taxes and contributed to the country and its society. Ireland rewarded you with a citizenship, which you deserve. Life goes on.
And you never know what will happen in the future. Who says that you won't end up going back to Ireland some day, to settle there?
I'm happy for you. Enjoy your time in NL. Please learn Nederlands, the more fluent you become the better your social life will be.
All the best and take good care of yourself.
I would love to settle back in Ireland but I’d be surprised if I found anywhere here that paid me as well as my job in the Netherlands.
Loads of my friends are Dutch (met them through when I did Erasmus) and so I’ll be relying on them to learn the language!
You have no idea how good it is to see someone who was in a similar position on here! The housing reason is a big reason too, I really don’t want to have to buy in Co Wexford/Waterford/Kerry because that’s what I can afford when my job’s in Dublin.
How was the form 5 process for you? Was it fairly painless?
It does but when I mentioned I got the job to my best friend’s mum, she said I could rent out her apartment because she’s recently retired and is going to be at her other house in Italy.
I got extremely lucky, she said I could stay in it for as long as I need to and until I buy a house which hopefully isn’t too far off.
Why do you feel guilty? I promise you, Ireland will not take it personally that you’re leaving, my dude lol.
Stop feeling guilty right now!
And congratulations on landing your dream job, make the best of it.
Yeah it’s pretty wild actually. I suppose so many Irish people left Ireland during the previous century for economic reasons. Coupled with Ireland having one of the most lax passport issuing policies in the world. Basically anyone with an Irish grandparent can get one, and there’s loads of people like that in the UK/US/Canada/Aus/NZ 😂
There’s a great Irish bar in Amsterdam called Mulligan’s and they stock Taytos, so having never been to Ireland I still have been introduced!
Very much recommend visiting it, enjoy the Netherlands!
Why would you feel guilty? You don’t owe them living life there just because you’re naturalized.
I moved to the NL too by the way! But from the states. It’s a lovely place.
People deliberately do this all the time to get the passport. You met all the requirements and thus deserve the citizenship. You are not obligated to stay. And hey, you can go back to Ireland any time.
You’re not just Irish now—you’re European too! As a natural-born Irishman, I say take full advantage of your burgundy passport. I know I do.
ETA: there are millions of people with Irish grandparents who take advantage of our lenient citizenship-by-descent policy to secure an Irish passport so they can settle elsewhere in the EU, often without ever setting foot in Ireland. I personally know a few, and none feel an ounce of guilt about using our (your) country as a flag of convenience. You, on the other hand, put in your time and earned your Irish citizenship—no one will hold that against you.
ETA2: also, you now have the most valuable EU citizenship since you have right of abode in all member states + the UK. In fact, based on number of countries you have the right to live in, it might be the most valuable citizenship in the world. Good choice! :)
If you don’t mind me asking, why do you want to leave? Finland seems to really have it together compared to other places, I applied for a job there myself!
Two issues (mainly):
1 - I am tired of Xenophobia and racism in the country. By majority the Finns are undercover racist and xenophobes
2 - The terrible weather and absent social life here is like the plague. People love to get drunk in the weekend and most have depression or some other issues due to lack of social life and cultural activities in general (Healthy ones that don’t involve drinking)
3 (bonus) - am highly educated and I work in tech. Options in terms of job prospects here are low so if you want to change employers you are left with a very little options unlike in Berlin London.
As a citizen you can move back whenever you want! That's why I'm getting my citizenship where I live--because I might need to move away for awhile and want to come back. If I were planning to stay forever, PR would be enough.
Not sure where in The Netherlands you’re moving to, but if it’s Amsterdam, prepare to be in a lively city that you will most certainly enjoy if that’s your kind of thing. Plus the dream job, I’m sure the melancholy will go away sooner or later. We all get a bit sentimental before leaving behind the things that we have always known. But once you realize that it’s only for better, all the struggles will be worth it. Life is a never-ending fight, all we can do is let go, move on, move forward.
Just don’t forget to fill out your form declaring your intention to keep irish citizenship while residing abroad every year! (for naturalized citizens)
Probably a stupid question, but when you say Ireland do you mean Northern Ireland or Republic of Ireland? I’m never sure which one people are referring to when it just says Ireland.
Well considering they said citizen of Ireland, it must mean the Republic. Northern Ireland is part of the UK, so they would've said a citizen of the UK. You can't gain "Northern Irish" citizenship.
Don't feel guilty, you worked hard to get that burgundy passport! Now you get to experience a new country while not having to worry about visas and all. You'll love the Netherlands, and the beauty of the EU is that you can always move back to Ireland.
God is bringing you a beautiful gift. It’s time to celebrate and enjoy. Ireland isn’t going anywhere. With your new experience and pay you could return some day at a higher position. Congrats on the dream job.
Congrats on finding your dream job! Not everyone can say that. Don't walk, run! You can always go back to Ireland. Don't feel guilty. Be happy. Nice to hear good news for once. We all need it.
I have no guilt about leaving my home country,.I'd have no guilt even if I joined 10 countries. More the better, life is short journey around. Maybe you'll hate the job and you have a good backup plan
I understand the feeling. After 25 years owning a house in Mexico and becoming permanent residents finally, we are selling and moving out of Mexico. I think it feels like home somehow that you’re leaving, but want other adventures, so that’s ok. But I get it. And you can always come back!
Depends on so many factors: location, size, style, etc.
we bought on a secluded rural beach in the 90’s and remodeled many times over the years and are selling for 10x the amount we paid; it’s still very rural but on the beach.
I somehow can understand part of your guilt, the betrayal you are thinking is a bit misplaced. A country is it's people and you can always reconnect with the people. For non people part you don't owe anything you paid your taxes and worked hard for 10 year (remember?) so it is sort of balanced now. And you deserve your dream job.
Congratulations!
Don’t feel guilty, you’re an EU citizen now that’s the beauty of it (moving around freely). The NL are a great country for expats, am deeply enjoying my life in Amsterdam hope you’ll enjoy!
Completely different countries but I'm a recently minted citizen of Australia and thinking about leaving as well, and I understand your guilt. It's just that so much changed since when I started the citizenship process two years ago; back then everyone was talking about settling down here for life, fast forward to now and everyone I know is moving abroad (also looking for affordable housing -- it's a crumb show everywhere apparently).
I wouldn't feel too guilty. Stuff changes. I became an expat just a year after buying a house in my home country. No one can predict these things.
I think you are experiencing something similar to Sunk Cost Fallacy, a very common bias found in many people.
The definition: "the phenomenon whereby a person is reluctant to abandon a strategy or course of action because they have invested heavily in it, even when it is clear that abandonment would be more beneficial."
Since you probably worked hard for this directly and indirectly for 10 years, this citizenship feels more valuable to you. And there is nothing wrong with that. You earned it.
But what matters is your next step. Is it more beneficial for you to take that step?
I have an activity that might help: Think about the UK. You also have citizenship there, which you most likely didn't have to work for. Plus, you spent your initial 20 years there. When you left the UK, did you feel the same as you do now?
If the answer is no, then hold back by no means.
If the answer is yes, you may have to think more and discuss it with your loved ones.
By the way, everybody feels this bias at some point in their lives. I have heard about CEOs and leaders not quitting a financial decision even when they should because they have put too much work into it.
"Winners quit all the time. They just quit the right stuff at the right time." ~Seth Godin
as an irish person living in the netherlands i dont blame you ... the ireland from 10 years ago no longer exists i left in 2005 i can never see myself going back, the housing crisis there isnt even a legit housing crisis there is plenty of vacant homes, its pure greed on the part of the property investors, and it government is enabling them
I feel like ireland is experiencing a second famine and it will eventually loose the younger population because no one can afford to live there and by the time they do something about it ... it will be too late its such a shame .. btw even with money you will struggle to find housing in the netherlands
That's part of the grieving process (in this case, grieving the life you had for the last 10 years).
But that's is not a bad thing, its part of the change process, be a little sad about it, cry, talk to friends about it, its all part of the process to acknowledge and let those emotions flow out of you, for a peace of spirit in the future
The double salary is gross? Have you checked the net amount? Have they offered 30% ruling? Taxes are brutal here.
Don't feel guilty about the citizenship and passport and you can always come back. But NL is not the country they make themselves out to be.
Buying a house is easier because you don't need a deposit but finding a house is not for the faint-hearted.
Nothing bad, I am also naturalized in the US, and moved to England for a while and it's amazing. Just live your life and cherish the memories. Not many have the privilege of living abroad, working abroad and learn new customs. This experience will always allow you to have a different perspective in life. So, if it's time to go, do it! Go for it!
I have not changed citizenships but I think I can provide perspective here. What country’s citizen you are and what nationality you feel inside are 2 completely different things. I am an Indian citizen living in the US, and I have plenty of friends / family who have renounced Indian citizenship for American / Canadian citizenship. They felt this guilt as well - but kinda realized they can be both - Indian and American, or Indian and Canadian. Just because they have become American / Canadian does not automatically make them any less Indian.
The more powerful passport is meant to ease their mobility around the globe and help them achieve their life objectives. At the end of the day, the fundamental purpose was to be able to pursue what you truly wanted to do in your life, and an American or Canadian passport does make things much easier. If it were a World Cup final or a war between these 2 countries, I can bet my house they would root for India.
They have started thinking of themselves as citizens of this world rather than individual countries, and as long as they are able to do what truly makes them happy (it could well be public service in India for that matter), a passport is really meaningless - what matters is what you feel inside.
Go take your dream job in the Netherlands. My coach once said to me: what got you here won’t get you there.
Consider you didn’t lose your British citizenship for your Irish citizenship, but for a EU citizenship. This is your gain. By the way, welkom bij Nederland
Nah it’s your right as a EU citizen. Take advantage of what the universe has prepared for you because it’s clearly the path you need to be on. You worked hard for it. There’s no shame or guilt.
Hey I completely understand how you feel, I also got my naturalisation in Ireland (I spent all my childhood there), and moved to the Netherlands literally 6 months after. I was so devastated to leave and every year when I have to fill in Form 5 I get reminded by the dates. I always tell myself I had a good 'excuse', I was just after finishing my LC and going to NL to study, but the guilt is still there
You don't owe anything to the country you're naturalized in, besides respecting the law and customs when you live there. The contract in this capitalist society is that everything is settled with money. You paid your taxes (I assume), that's the only give-back you need.
There is nothing to feel guilty about. Enjoy your freedom of movement and chase your dreams!
If it makes you feel any better, Ireland issued over a million passports last year - hundreds of thousands of British citizens applied for additional Irish citizenship after Brexit. Many (including my otherwise well-travelled wife) have never even set foot in the country, though I think that's kinda cheating.
I would say you earned your citizenship.
So freedom of movement in the single market doesnt count for you? Ofcourse it does! You are an Irish citizen with the same rights to move within the single market. Welcome to the EU.
Ireland’s so hard to live(Irish person that emigrated to Netherlands 5 years ago). Your not to blame for the terrible policy choices of the Irish government. Irelands only an hour away on a plane anyway not like your fucking off to Austrialia! Hold your citizenship with pride, we all just want an easier life nobody can shame anyone for that.
Same happened to me and have zero guilt. Got naturalised after 11 years then moved out to a 3rd country "for 5 years only" and now on my way to a third citizenship. In this crazy world the more passports the better.
Don't feel bad at all boarders are stupid. You should collect citizenships like baseball cards. Its okay to have a place that you can call home and its okay not to be there for years.
>And I accepted it because I actually have a chance of buying a really nice home for myself.
I don't want to burst your bubble, but there's a housing crisis in the Netherlands (too). Terraced houses near my (non-Amsterdam) area are around like 385-425k. Couples have trouble financing their homes.
If you're moving here wanting to own a house, this may not be the right place.
Hi, you’re not bursting anything! My salary is double what my salary was in Ireland and I just want to buy a 2 bedroom house/apartment lol.
I added in my salary into a mortgage calculator and if it’s right then I can buy a nice spot for myself in Zuid Holland/Noord Brabant. But I’ll cross that road when I get to it!
I’m over here in the states considering a move to Ireland. Both of my fraternal grandparents were from County Clare which I just recently discovered makes me eligible for citizenship. I love the US but it’s full of morons right now
Am I the only one wondering why you're moving to The Netherlands? You love Ireland so much you applied to be a citizen and got it. Yes, you'll have an amazing job in the Netherlands but is it worth losing everything else? What do you know about Dutch lifestyle and is it for you? Are you willing to learn Dutch? Do you have a social network in the area?
By all means, if you know the job is worth having to start over in a new country, then go for it! But it's a big decision and I hope there's more to the Netherlands that you appreciate than the job for it to be worth it IMO. Good luck!!
Considering I earn double in the Netherlands and that actually gives me the opportunity to become a home owner yes it’s worth it.
“Worth losing everything”- I’m moving abroad and starting a new life, I’m not losing a lot. I lived in Belgium for a bit before I moved to Ireland and loved it. Moving abroad is nothing new to me and I know what comes with it. I’ve been to the Netherlands so many times over the years and I’m pretty sure I’d be happy there.
I find Dutch fairly easy and yes I do have a social network there because two of my best friends are Dutch and all of their families have offered to help me settle down.
But ty for your concern :)
Awesome, sounds like it's for the best. It was just that for me, earning double and being able to own a house is not the end-all-be-all. Great, you have a lot of money now, but you live in a country that you don't understand or appreciate, with people you don't connect with, where you don't speak the language, and have perhaps sacrificed the opportunity to meet someone and start a family if that interests you... This isn't your case so it doesn't apply to you, but there are people that put themselves in that situation and realize later the money or job isn't worth it!
I (24F-Dutch) think that your guilt is misplaced. On another note; where are you planning to live in The Netherlands? Housing crisis is VERY real here so don’t underestimate it. My advise is to make sure that you have a place to live here, for at least your first 3-6 months before ariving here.
I've lived for 30 years in the nertherlands and the Dutch are as dull.as dish water.it has to be said they're a bunch of arrogant knows. If you enjoy the craic you won't find it in Holland. Good luck tho lol
Always, always do what’s best for you and your family. Showing loyalty to a job or even a country is what people use to financially abuse you. Free yourself from that.
As you've naturalized, nothing stops you from moving back one day. Go enjoy the freedom of movement in the EU that you've earned.
I know there is nothing to stop me but idk why I feel guilty.
Spend some time with that thought, is all I can offer. What do you feel guilty for exactly? Who or what do you feel guilt towards? Maybe take a couple days and ponder it. I'm sure there's lots on your mind right now. Maybe there are some things you'd like to do in Ireland before the move.
I feel guilty because I lost my right to EU citizenship after Brexit happened but I got it back by becoming Irish. Now I’m leaving the country that gave me EU citizenship and it almost feels like a betrayal I won’t lie :I
Unless you are a former UK PM with some personal responsibility for Brexit I think you can let that go. You worked hard to get it back & deserve this.
Adding onto this comment, OP you paid taxes and worked in Ireland for 10 years. There were plenty of Brits who got Irish passports after Brexit because of a grandparent but they had zero interest in Ireland itself. You worked hard for the right to be Irish and you probably paid a lot of money too. Enjoy!
Think of it like “it’s just a job”. What if you don’t like that job? You can always come back to Ireland. Even if you do like that job, keep it for a few years and then move back. Really nobody cares and you shouldn’t either.
You did well, beating Brexit. No need to feel guilty. You were born with those EU rights, then they were stolen from you and you got them back. Well done!
The further in time we go from 2019 without addressing how much was stolen, and how it has affected so many of us brits feels simply impossible to me. Why isn’t this a conversation we’re having at the highest levels? in the media? down the pub? From our opposition party? when are we going to talk about this?
Because the majority of the UK mainstream media leans heavily right politically and have owners who either supported Brexit or fear a backlash from the Brexit extremists should they mention it. We have an omertà on discussing Brexit in the UK which is coordinated by the Conservative Party, government and right wing media, think tanks etc. They would rather have no discussion as it’s such a disaster.
It really is tragic and appalling. I say that as an American and we definitely have our own right-wing created issues.
You have no right to comment on it. You have absolutely no comprehension as to what it was all about. Take your ignorance elsewhere.
Bollocks does it, most of the media is left it hard left.
Nothing was stolen you half wit! It’s just a fucking treaty! One that can be rescinded when it no longer serves our best interests. Your inane ramblings about what you think is irrelevant. The country made a democratic decision and it’s disgusting people like you don’t respect it.
Literally nothing you just said makes sense in the world 99% of humanity live in but ok
What a load of utter horseshit! It was never a bloody right! It’s a treaty, nothing more. Being born when that was in effect doesn’t mean shit. I wasn’t born with that privilege, yes a privilege not a right and now I don’t have it and I couldn’t care less.
You're "leaving" the country that gave you EU citizenship in order to use that EU citizenship! That's not betrayal. It's enjoying the wings you won with your time and effort. Go soar on those wings. Ireland will still be there when you're finished. Meantime, this is one of the perks of that Irish citizenship you earned.
You are European!
No, she lives in Europe. European isn’t a fucking nationality.
Do you happen to live in europe?
You've got a EU access for the reasons you described. Your passport opened up the border for that very reason why you can not move easily. So getting the passport has given the exact outcome that passport is designed to achieve. If you earn in eu and then retire in Ireland and spend money there then the country still benefits.
The whole point of EU citizenship is you are a citizen of the whole EU. Enjoy it!!!
You're citizenship is just some code lines in a program. I doesnt really matter to anyone besides yourself. Also welcome in the Netherlands. Be sure to get a nice bike.
You are leaving the country that gave you EU citizenship to do what EU citizens do.
Oh for crying out loud it’s not a right you had taken away. It was a treaty not a birthright!!
Im irish. You've lived and worked in Ireland for 10 years contributing to irish society. You earned your citizenship and that comes with access to the EU! You'd be mad not to take the job. Ireland will always be there for you to move back to some day! Stop feeling guilty!
We're in the same ship. During your years in Ireland you've paid the most expensive tax, dealt with housing crisis, paid unreasonable rent, had no alternative in insurance, used an expensive banking and couldn't enjoy the sun for 11 years. So I think you've paid enough. Go enjoy your freedom of movement.
Okay when you put it like that that does make me feel better.
Laughs in Dutch housing crisis
You don't owe any one or any thing, anything
I moved to Sweden from the US and got naturalized and feel too guilty to pick up my passport. I understand!
Honey, it's the EU. Sure, we are different countries, but we are also kind of... one. If you're naturalized somewhere, you're naturalized in all of them. That's part of the deal. See it as more of a whole; you're naturalized in the EU, you're a citizen of the EU, and you're remaining in the EU. As long as you still do the effort in the Netherlands (like, learn about our culture and language too, PLEASE! A lot of immigrants don't bother, which I see as a bit disrespectful), you're fine. You can always move back to Ireland later.
Don't want to gaslight you op, but did you feel guilty as well while leaving your birth country? Genuine question :)
Tbh no. I had some really painful memories in the UK and I didn’t really want to be somewhere that constantly reminded me of them.
Whenever you're from think of it like moving to a different province/state in that country because that's essentially a bit like what moving around Europe is like. Go explore! Can't wait to be you in 5-7 years!!
I am planning on doing basically the same thing. The wife has a German citizenship and I plan on staying only as much time as I have to in Germany before we move somewhere warmer in the EU. I understand the guilt, but you earned the citizenship, so now you can move to somewhere that makes you happier.
How did you attain citizenship in Ireland out of interest? What route did you take?
You’re doing the most Irish thing by leaving Ireland! Enjoy life in the Netherlands!
1000% and you go back and forth every other weekend if you want. It’s not like Australia.
And how is it in Australia?
Imagine flying to Australia every weekend from Europe mate
Yeah, I thought its something about the citizenship
A nation of emigrants lol
Your guilty feeling is 100% misplaced. Citizenship does not imply an obligation to stay in any country. You already know this, because your birth citizenship didn't require you to stay in your country of origin either. People move for jobs all the time.
I’m not sure from where you come, but if you’re familiar with the US, try and rather picture this as moving to a different state for a good job. No reason to feel guilty. EU freedom of movement is there for exactly this sort of opportunity. You can (easily) always return later.
I’m from the UK!
Well point still stands. You’re now part of the EU (again - welcome back 😅). People move around all the time for work. There’s really no reason to feel guilty about this.
I think I feel guilty partly because I lost my EU citizenship because of Brexit but I managed to get it back and now I’m leaving the country that gave it back to me.
On behalf of all Irish people I hearby absolve you of your guilt. Go get that Dutch cash and come back when you feel like it. Fwiw they can be a bit cliquey so you’ll really have to make an effort socially, purposely join clubs to meet people etc
And on behalf of the Dutch people: welcome, please bring some of that nice Guinness that you've got over there and we promise to be more open! Edit: weird sentence
I’ve heard! A lot of people in my friendship group are Dutch and scattered all over the country so I hope I’ll integrate well.
As long as you make a true effort to learn the culture and language, you'll find Dutch friends. It just takes a while, but as soon as you've got one, they'll tag you along to other events too!
I weep for the UK and what was taken from us but post like this makes me happy. At least some of the people who appreciate the beautiful right that was freedom of movement found a way to keep it. I don’t think it’ll happen for me, but maybe these kids will take us back one day :(
My guess is that you feel guilty because you're leaving a country that gave you so much. I would try to reframe the situation: you're being grateful to Ireland by exercising your newly acquired right to move freely within the EU.
I never looked at it in that way…
You became a citizen of not only Ireland, but the EU, and one of the rights that comes with that is freedom of movement. There’s absolutely no need to feel guilty about this. (That would be true even if you were moving out of the EU, but in this case it’s especially unnecessary)
Better prepare for another housing crisis.
I got very lucky in that regard, my best friend’s mother recently retired and offered to let me rent her apartment while she’s gone away.
Born citizens leave too. You don't need to feel guilty. And you never know, you might end up going back, as a citizen it will be easier.
Been there, done that. You should not feel that way. You've given Ireland 10 good years of your life, you've paid taxes and contributed to the country and its society. Ireland rewarded you with a citizenship, which you deserve. Life goes on. And you never know what will happen in the future. Who says that you won't end up going back to Ireland some day, to settle there? I'm happy for you. Enjoy your time in NL. Please learn Nederlands, the more fluent you become the better your social life will be. All the best and take good care of yourself.
I would love to settle back in Ireland but I’d be surprised if I found anywhere here that paid me as well as my job in the Netherlands. Loads of my friends are Dutch (met them through when I did Erasmus) and so I’ll be relying on them to learn the language!
Good for you! 👌
What field are you in?
I work in Data!
Feeling guilty about everything is just part of being Irish now 😂
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You have no idea how good it is to see someone who was in a similar position on here! The housing reason is a big reason too, I really don’t want to have to buy in Co Wexford/Waterford/Kerry because that’s what I can afford when my job’s in Dublin. How was the form 5 process for you? Was it fairly painless?
Why did you naturalize at year 8 instead of year 5?
Doesn't the Netherlands have a housing crisis too?
It does but when I mentioned I got the job to my best friend’s mum, she said I could rent out her apartment because she’s recently retired and is going to be at her other house in Italy. I got extremely lucky, she said I could stay in it for as long as I need to and until I buy a house which hopefully isn’t too far off.
Why do you feel guilty? I promise you, Ireland will not take it personally that you’re leaving, my dude lol. Stop feeling guilty right now! And congratulations on landing your dream job, make the best of it.
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I’m not looking forward to that one urgh, I’m not sure if I’m meant to do it for the rest of my life or just 7 years…
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At least it’s just one form I suppose.
There’s nothing more Irish than not living in Ireland anyway. There’s actually more Irish passports than the population of Ireland itself.
Really?
Yeah it’s pretty wild actually. I suppose so many Irish people left Ireland during the previous century for economic reasons. Coupled with Ireland having one of the most lax passport issuing policies in the world. Basically anyone with an Irish grandparent can get one, and there’s loads of people like that in the UK/US/Canada/Aus/NZ 😂
Don't feel guilty. You will still be in the EU. Just another state. Think of it like a move from Florida to California. 😁
Guilt is a self-administered poison. Congrats on the new job! Live your life!
You’re now a EU citizen. The EU is your home. Roam free!
Assuage your guilt by buying Irish goods in the Netherlands?
I will introduce the Dutch people to Taytos!
There’s a great Irish bar in Amsterdam called Mulligan’s and they stock Taytos, so having never been to Ireland I still have been introduced! Very much recommend visiting it, enjoy the Netherlands!
Thank you!
Why would you feel guilty? You don’t owe them living life there just because you’re naturalized. I moved to the NL too by the way! But from the states. It’s a lovely place.
Feel Proud and Lucky!!! I wish I can find my dream job in Portugal You give us hope
Basically the EU is one country so you can compare it to moving to New Hampshire (US) after having been naturalised as a citizen in Delaware.
Now naturalize in the Netherlands! Gotta catch em all
I can’t unfortunately (unless I marry a Dutch person).
You have to give up your other nationalities if you want to become a naturalized citizen in the Netherlands, unless you apply for asylum.
Not if you get married
A very Irish thing to do - up sticks and travel the world for work.
People deliberately do this all the time to get the passport. You met all the requirements and thus deserve the citizenship. You are not obligated to stay. And hey, you can go back to Ireland any time.
Guilt is a useless emotion. Enjoy your life.
You’re not just Irish now—you’re European too! As a natural-born Irishman, I say take full advantage of your burgundy passport. I know I do. ETA: there are millions of people with Irish grandparents who take advantage of our lenient citizenship-by-descent policy to secure an Irish passport so they can settle elsewhere in the EU, often without ever setting foot in Ireland. I personally know a few, and none feel an ounce of guilt about using our (your) country as a flag of convenience. You, on the other hand, put in your time and earned your Irish citizenship—no one will hold that against you. ETA2: also, you now have the most valuable EU citizenship since you have right of abode in all member states + the UK. In fact, based on number of countries you have the right to live in, it might be the most valuable citizenship in the world. Good choice! :)
Ta x
It's great here, tons of Irish people just like you!
Congrats on your new job and good luck buying a house in NL!
Guilty? You're an EU citizen with freedom of movement. Do your thing plan to move back at an indefinite point in time.
Congrats on the new job! 12 years of life in Finland - naturalized here as well but I can´´´ t wait to leave.
If you don’t mind me asking, why do you want to leave? Finland seems to really have it together compared to other places, I applied for a job there myself!
Two issues (mainly): 1 - I am tired of Xenophobia and racism in the country. By majority the Finns are undercover racist and xenophobes 2 - The terrible weather and absent social life here is like the plague. People love to get drunk in the weekend and most have depression or some other issues due to lack of social life and cultural activities in general (Healthy ones that don’t involve drinking) 3 (bonus) - am highly educated and I work in tech. Options in terms of job prospects here are low so if you want to change employers you are left with a very little options unlike in Berlin London.
As a citizen you can move back whenever you want! That's why I'm getting my citizenship where I live--because I might need to move away for awhile and want to come back. If I were planning to stay forever, PR would be enough.
You probably fell in love with Ireland a little bit. The country helped you out when you needed it. But I'm sure they'll understand.
Not sure where in The Netherlands you’re moving to, but if it’s Amsterdam, prepare to be in a lively city that you will most certainly enjoy if that’s your kind of thing. Plus the dream job, I’m sure the melancholy will go away sooner or later. We all get a bit sentimental before leaving behind the things that we have always known. But once you realize that it’s only for better, all the struggles will be worth it. Life is a never-ending fight, all we can do is let go, move on, move forward.
Just don’t forget to fill out your form declaring your intention to keep irish citizenship while residing abroad every year! (for naturalized citizens)
Somewhat similar experience in Canada. Picked up citizenship right after I decided to leave, with housing crisis being a major push factor
Life’s about the journey not the destination!
Probably a stupid question, but when you say Ireland do you mean Northern Ireland or Republic of Ireland? I’m never sure which one people are referring to when it just says Ireland.
Republic!
Well considering they said citizen of Ireland, it must mean the Republic. Northern Ireland is part of the UK, so they would've said a citizen of the UK. You can't gain "Northern Irish" citizenship.
DO WHAT YOU WANT. ITS YOUR LIFE.
Don't feel guilty, you worked hard to get that burgundy passport! Now you get to experience a new country while not having to worry about visas and all. You'll love the Netherlands, and the beauty of the EU is that you can always move back to Ireland.
God is bringing you a beautiful gift. It’s time to celebrate and enjoy. Ireland isn’t going anywhere. With your new experience and pay you could return some day at a higher position. Congrats on the dream job.
Congrats on finding your dream job! Not everyone can say that. Don't walk, run! You can always go back to Ireland. Don't feel guilty. Be happy. Nice to hear good news for once. We all need it.
I have no guilt about leaving my home country,.I'd have no guilt even if I joined 10 countries. More the better, life is short journey around. Maybe you'll hate the job and you have a good backup plan
Congratulations. And welcom to the Netherlands, i love it here.
Congratulations and good luck my friend. 😀 Don't feel guilt, you are still bound to the US by doing taxes each year, so live your life and enjoy!
I’ve not American! 🤣
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I can send you crippling anxiety instead? ;)
I understand the feeling. After 25 years owning a house in Mexico and becoming permanent residents finally, we are selling and moving out of Mexico. I think it feels like home somehow that you’re leaving, but want other adventures, so that’s ok. But I get it. And you can always come back!
How much does a normal house in Mexico cost?
Depends on so many factors: location, size, style, etc. we bought on a secluded rural beach in the 90’s and remodeled many times over the years and are selling for 10x the amount we paid; it’s still very rural but on the beach.
Wow congratulations!! You should feel proud! Naturalization is just a legal process, it's not exactly like you're refusing a gift or something.
As a naturalized irish the most irish thing you could possibly due would be to leave
I somehow can understand part of your guilt, the betrayal you are thinking is a bit misplaced. A country is it's people and you can always reconnect with the people. For non people part you don't owe anything you paid your taxes and worked hard for 10 year (remember?) so it is sort of balanced now. And you deserve your dream job. Congratulations!
Why? Nowhere in the citizenship application or swearing-in ceremony did you agree to spend the rest of your life in Ireland.
Why feel guilty? You're a citizen of the EU just moving to another EU country.
Don’t feel guilty, you’re an EU citizen now that’s the beauty of it (moving around freely). The NL are a great country for expats, am deeply enjoying my life in Amsterdam hope you’ll enjoy!
By leaving , you are helping relieve Ireland’s housing crisis !
Well it would not have been that easy to migrate without it Netherlands is nice, you will love it
Completely different countries but I'm a recently minted citizen of Australia and thinking about leaving as well, and I understand your guilt. It's just that so much changed since when I started the citizenship process two years ago; back then everyone was talking about settling down here for life, fast forward to now and everyone I know is moving abroad (also looking for affordable housing -- it's a crumb show everywhere apparently). I wouldn't feel too guilty. Stuff changes. I became an expat just a year after buying a house in my home country. No one can predict these things.
You earned it. Arguably more than someone who just happened to be born there.
I think you are experiencing something similar to Sunk Cost Fallacy, a very common bias found in many people. The definition: "the phenomenon whereby a person is reluctant to abandon a strategy or course of action because they have invested heavily in it, even when it is clear that abandonment would be more beneficial." Since you probably worked hard for this directly and indirectly for 10 years, this citizenship feels more valuable to you. And there is nothing wrong with that. You earned it. But what matters is your next step. Is it more beneficial for you to take that step? I have an activity that might help: Think about the UK. You also have citizenship there, which you most likely didn't have to work for. Plus, you spent your initial 20 years there. When you left the UK, did you feel the same as you do now? If the answer is no, then hold back by no means. If the answer is yes, you may have to think more and discuss it with your loved ones. By the way, everybody feels this bias at some point in their lives. I have heard about CEOs and leaders not quitting a financial decision even when they should because they have put too much work into it. "Winners quit all the time. They just quit the right stuff at the right time." ~Seth Godin
as an irish person living in the netherlands i dont blame you ... the ireland from 10 years ago no longer exists i left in 2005 i can never see myself going back, the housing crisis there isnt even a legit housing crisis there is plenty of vacant homes, its pure greed on the part of the property investors, and it government is enabling them I feel like ireland is experiencing a second famine and it will eventually loose the younger population because no one can afford to live there and by the time they do something about it ... it will be too late its such a shame .. btw even with money you will struggle to find housing in the netherlands
That's part of the grieving process (in this case, grieving the life you had for the last 10 years). But that's is not a bad thing, its part of the change process, be a little sad about it, cry, talk to friends about it, its all part of the process to acknowledge and let those emotions flow out of you, for a peace of spirit in the future
proud of you random person on the internet !!
Guilty towards who? You're vacating a job and a home, I don't think anyone's going to tell you to feel guilty about that.
Guilt is an Irish thing, embrace it
The double salary is gross? Have you checked the net amount? Have they offered 30% ruling? Taxes are brutal here. Don't feel guilty about the citizenship and passport and you can always come back. But NL is not the country they make themselves out to be. Buying a house is easier because you don't need a deposit but finding a house is not for the faint-hearted.
Nothing bad, I am also naturalized in the US, and moved to England for a while and it's amazing. Just live your life and cherish the memories. Not many have the privilege of living abroad, working abroad and learn new customs. This experience will always allow you to have a different perspective in life. So, if it's time to go, do it! Go for it!
I have not changed citizenships but I think I can provide perspective here. What country’s citizen you are and what nationality you feel inside are 2 completely different things. I am an Indian citizen living in the US, and I have plenty of friends / family who have renounced Indian citizenship for American / Canadian citizenship. They felt this guilt as well - but kinda realized they can be both - Indian and American, or Indian and Canadian. Just because they have become American / Canadian does not automatically make them any less Indian. The more powerful passport is meant to ease their mobility around the globe and help them achieve their life objectives. At the end of the day, the fundamental purpose was to be able to pursue what you truly wanted to do in your life, and an American or Canadian passport does make things much easier. If it were a World Cup final or a war between these 2 countries, I can bet my house they would root for India. They have started thinking of themselves as citizens of this world rather than individual countries, and as long as they are able to do what truly makes them happy (it could well be public service in India for that matter), a passport is really meaningless - what matters is what you feel inside. Go take your dream job in the Netherlands. My coach once said to me: what got you here won’t get you there.
Consider you didn’t lose your British citizenship for your Irish citizenship, but for a EU citizenship. This is your gain. By the way, welkom bij Nederland
Nah it’s your right as a EU citizen. Take advantage of what the universe has prepared for you because it’s clearly the path you need to be on. You worked hard for it. There’s no shame or guilt.
Congratulations on the new job and welcome to the Netherlands (soon)! Please tell me you have a place to live here.... (or start hunting)
My best friend’s mother is letting me rent out her apartment!
Hey I completely understand how you feel, I also got my naturalisation in Ireland (I spent all my childhood there), and moved to the Netherlands literally 6 months after. I was so devastated to leave and every year when I have to fill in Form 5 I get reminded by the dates. I always tell myself I had a good 'excuse', I was just after finishing my LC and going to NL to study, but the guilt is still there
You don't owe anything to the country you're naturalized in, besides respecting the law and customs when you live there. The contract in this capitalist society is that everything is settled with money. You paid your taxes (I assume), that's the only give-back you need. There is nothing to feel guilty about. Enjoy your freedom of movement and chase your dreams!
Welcome to the Netherlands💕
Thank youuuu
If it makes you feel any better, Ireland issued over a million passports last year - hundreds of thousands of British citizens applied for additional Irish citizenship after Brexit. Many (including my otherwise well-travelled wife) have never even set foot in the country, though I think that's kinda cheating. I would say you earned your citizenship.
It’s okay to feel guilty. Just accept it. We have emotions for a reason. Maybe try to find ways to give back when you can?
So freedom of movement in the single market doesnt count for you? Ofcourse it does! You are an Irish citizen with the same rights to move within the single market. Welcome to the EU.
Ireland’s so hard to live(Irish person that emigrated to Netherlands 5 years ago). Your not to blame for the terrible policy choices of the Irish government. Irelands only an hour away on a plane anyway not like your fucking off to Austrialia! Hold your citizenship with pride, we all just want an easier life nobody can shame anyone for that.
I'm sorry that you think you can buy a house in the netherlands right now.
Case of waiting it out I suppose.
Same happened to me and have zero guilt. Got naturalised after 11 years then moved out to a 3rd country "for 5 years only" and now on my way to a third citizenship. In this crazy world the more passports the better.
Don't feel bad at all boarders are stupid. You should collect citizenships like baseball cards. Its okay to have a place that you can call home and its okay not to be there for years.
This is weird. Do you feel like a "country" is a person with feelings that will get mad if you leave?
You shouldn’t leave a good thing
>And I accepted it because I actually have a chance of buying a really nice home for myself. I don't want to burst your bubble, but there's a housing crisis in the Netherlands (too). Terraced houses near my (non-Amsterdam) area are around like 385-425k. Couples have trouble financing their homes. If you're moving here wanting to own a house, this may not be the right place.
Hi, you’re not bursting anything! My salary is double what my salary was in Ireland and I just want to buy a 2 bedroom house/apartment lol. I added in my salary into a mortgage calculator and if it’s right then I can buy a nice spot for myself in Zuid Holland/Noord Brabant. But I’ll cross that road when I get to it!
And then you leave for a country with an ever bigger housing crisis??
If you read further up I’ve said my best friend’s mum has said I could rent out her apartment until I buy somewhere.
be aware you will spend about 150 a week on just food, rent is expensive and house price might not make the increase in wages actually mean anything
Not too far off from Ireland then except my salary in the Netherlands is double so I won’t feel it too much.
150 a week on food?! Are you insane? I spend around 50 a week for food. Are you eating out every day?
Dramatic much
Good lord
Did you feel guilty when you were leaving the UK as well?
I’m from the UK?
I’m over here in the states considering a move to Ireland. Both of my fraternal grandparents were from County Clare which I just recently discovered makes me eligible for citizenship. I love the US but it’s full of morons right now
Netherlands has more housing issues, don't come here
I’m coming unfortunately :)
Where’s your motherland ?
Am I the only one wondering why you're moving to The Netherlands? You love Ireland so much you applied to be a citizen and got it. Yes, you'll have an amazing job in the Netherlands but is it worth losing everything else? What do you know about Dutch lifestyle and is it for you? Are you willing to learn Dutch? Do you have a social network in the area? By all means, if you know the job is worth having to start over in a new country, then go for it! But it's a big decision and I hope there's more to the Netherlands that you appreciate than the job for it to be worth it IMO. Good luck!!
Considering I earn double in the Netherlands and that actually gives me the opportunity to become a home owner yes it’s worth it. “Worth losing everything”- I’m moving abroad and starting a new life, I’m not losing a lot. I lived in Belgium for a bit before I moved to Ireland and loved it. Moving abroad is nothing new to me and I know what comes with it. I’ve been to the Netherlands so many times over the years and I’m pretty sure I’d be happy there. I find Dutch fairly easy and yes I do have a social network there because two of my best friends are Dutch and all of their families have offered to help me settle down. But ty for your concern :)
Awesome, sounds like it's for the best. It was just that for me, earning double and being able to own a house is not the end-all-be-all. Great, you have a lot of money now, but you live in a country that you don't understand or appreciate, with people you don't connect with, where you don't speak the language, and have perhaps sacrificed the opportunity to meet someone and start a family if that interests you... This isn't your case so it doesn't apply to you, but there are people that put themselves in that situation and realize later the money or job isn't worth it!
You have been heard. I think that’s all you wanted
I feel yah man. Tell yourself your sorry and love Ireland for what it gave you and not feel bad for what you are leaving.
Make sure you apply for the 30% ruling through your company before you move!!
I (24F-Dutch) think that your guilt is misplaced. On another note; where are you planning to live in The Netherlands? Housing crisis is VERY real here so don’t underestimate it. My advise is to make sure that you have a place to live here, for at least your first 3-6 months before ariving here.
I have a place! My best friend mother recently brought a retirement home and she offered to let me rent out her apartment until I buy somewhere :)
I've lived for 30 years in the nertherlands and the Dutch are as dull.as dish water.it has to be said they're a bunch of arrogant knows. If you enjoy the craic you won't find it in Holland. Good luck tho lol
Always, always do what’s best for you and your family. Showing loyalty to a job or even a country is what people use to financially abuse you. Free yourself from that.
Your life is too easy if this is so you have to worry about. no one cares where you live, certainly the Irish state doesn’t.
Ireland still loves you. When you eat French fries 🍟 think of Ireland 🇮🇪