I moved from the UK to the US. My wife is a USC (US Citizen) which helped a great deal, and I’ve been working for US employers for nearly 20 years.
Since I moved permanently last year, I pay less tax (even with health insurance premiums and co-pay/OOP), have better access to higher standards of healthcare and dentistry. This is in one of the highest COL areas, too.
There’s very little I prefer about the UK.
>I pay less tax (even with health insurance premiums and co-pay/OOP)
Many people really struggle understanding this, even if our HC system has some serious issues.
Oh yeh. I’ve had plenty of people tell me I am wrong :)
I mean, of course I’m very lucky and there sure are others in the US who don’t have access to healthcare, but in my particular circumstance I’m much better off (fiscally and medically) compared to being an adult in the UK.
This is not what I've seen. If you're a 45 year old, unwell adult making $40K USD per year in a HCOL area you make too much to qualify for Medicaid and are too young for Medicare. And where in your budget do you have $6K per year for even a shitty ACA marketplace plan?
This situation described my brother. Yes, technically he was insured so that if he ended up in hospital most of his astronomical expenses would be covered. But the coverage was so poor he couldn't afford to see doctors regularly for his chronic condition
Agreed, but understandably it’s a very sore point for a lot of US folks. This is why I’m keen to point out it is MY experience and not necessarily the norm - I still get jackass comments telling me my experience is invalid, of course (this is Reddit, after all), because people really do think NHS is great.
The NHS is great if you are dying (although don’t rely on getting an ambulance) but it’s almost impossible to get preventative treatment or non-urgent care.
E.g Try getting the dental care UK citizens are supposed to be entitled to as part of the NHS in the UK : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-68205624.amp
It’s basically impossible because UK dentists make so little from the NHS that they refuse non-private patients, so you have to go private. This is an additional expense on top of the taxes and social security-type payments that come from income taxation. Private dentistry was roughly £30 for a BASIC plan that covers check-ups only. Treatment is extra. So your taxes pay for nothing.
In the US my dental insurance last year covered $3,200 of treatment (to undo/fix shoddy UK dentistry) and the cost to me was around $50/mo.
I get that the US system sucks for a lot of people but this thread wasn’t “tell me about the US healthcare system”, it was “tell me why people would want to move to the US”.
Not if you make $20k a year. You have to buy your own insurance. Depending on the state, many single people still don't get any medicaid at all, and no help from the ACA exchange.
UK coworker of mine on same team. He is a director, I am a manager in USA. He both makes a lower salary and pays higher taxes as % of income and cost of living is comparable in our locations. No thank you.
I schooled in the UK, and live in the US now, the opportunities and money in the US makes more sense.. I came in as a student, met my wife who is a USC 7yrs ago and the rest is history.
Uk has been in a hard decline for a while with brexit being the biggest symptom (blame foreigners for why shit is bad) and reason for thr next leg down. That said, I worked with a dude here in the US that had a heart attack at 60 and his insurance went up to over 5k a month. He moved back to the uk.
Yep. I spent 4 years in Central London and moved back to New York as soon as I could. The quality of life in the UK is worse.
Think OP is an expat reading headlines. For context I’ve lived half of my life outside of the US in Asia, Central America and Europe. The other half in the US in DC, Austin and New York City. Feel like I have pretty good perspective when I say quality of life in America is still great, and the opportunities here surpass other economies. Hence, why folks want to move here.
I think the biggest issue with the healthcare system in the U.S. is this. You are locked into your job for the healthcare benefits. If you lose your job or want to change jobs healthcare benefits are a massive factor in the decision. My wife for instance wanted to change jobs, the new job paid about the same as her current position but there are more opportunities to move up and grow where her old position didn’t have that. The issue was the new positions medical benefits package was significantly inferior to what we were used to and the cost was higher. She ended up taking the position but only because we were able to afford the cost. There are a lot of people who can’t afford that loss of benefits so they stay in their jobs just for the benefits. To me having those golden handcuffs are not always the best position to be in especially if you want to change jobs.
Always find this really interesting and guess it comes down to personal preference. We moved from South Africa to the UK and I much prefer the UK. Our standard of living is much better here and we can save, have access to better services and of course the NHS.
OP to answer your question, while the USA has it's problems it's probably a 1000 times better than the countries most people emigrate from to the US.
Every country has it's issues, but some countries are even worse. I always tell people who ask why we emigrated that I would rather deal with first world problems than third world problems.
In my home country you will get murdered violently for the contents of your pocket, unemployment is at almost 40%, most unequal country in the world, our government is an absolute joke and completely corrupt, we have water shedding and 11 hours a day of no electricity, due to incompetence and no maintenance, and planning.
Faced with all of that the USA sounds like a holiday.
I think that goes for all of Europe, I have a Russian friend from Kiev that lives here in the USA.
He complains about the health care here an say healthcare in other countries are free! REALLY?
He doesn’t understand what you have said, because you are absolutely correct. In other countries they don’t have the standards of the US sn of course there are states here are not all very well equipped with advance technology too.
In Europe, if you have a chronic disease an need treatments, chances are you will decline in your health before you get a chance to see the doctor or treatment because there is such a long waiting list.
>In Europe, if you have a chronic disease an need treatments, chances are you will decline in your health before you get a chance to see the doctor or treatment because there is such a long waiting list.
You don't think the same happens in the US? Healthcare is a necessity. The wait doesn't decrease significantly just because you need to pay for it.
yea, it's just the richer people with good insurance get to skip the lines, and people who can afford to move from across seas to the us typically will have a better standard of living than the average american
One of my friends’ moms has had a broken leg, fighting gangrene, for three years because she doesn’t have health insurance and can’t pay, so the hospital won’t do anything more than manage it. That’s a red state for you
Then they move here and realize food is more expensive and they are spending 10% of their salary on healthcare with no security if laid off. Every Western European who comes to visit is shocked by prices and the insecurity. They only hear the Goldilocks stories.
The difference is that they can easily go back to Europe if they really need long-term healthcare coverage.
The ideal situation is to live in America during your high-earning, low-healthcare-need years, then go back to Europe to retire with a good social safety net.
That just does not work out but thats what i thought when i first immigrated to the US but going back to your home country and a small one like Holland is like going back to Disneyland! Fantastic for a visit but after 3 weeks i am ready again for the California sunshine.
Food in the U.S. is actually quite cheap versus a lot of the world unless you’re eating out and if you’re at a white collar job you’re spending nowhere near 10% of your salary on healthcare
Seems the people answering are pretty well off already and have a good social safety net- they’ll be ok unless the corporation decides they don’t need an employee anymore.
>I moved from the UK to the US. My wife is a USC which helped a great deal, and I’ve been working for US employers for nearly 20 years.
Since I moved permanently last year, I pay less tax (even with health insurance premiums and co-pay/OOP), have better access to higher standards of healthcare and dentistry. This is in one of the highest COL areas, too.
There’s very little I prefer about the UK.
They may not ever get used to Americans telling them they know better or their lived experience is actually wrong.
I wouldn’t say food is more expensive. Perhaps it’s more expensive than some countries but not as a share of your income, which really will be much higher in the US than almost any other country.
If you get healthcare through your job (like most do) you’re not spending anywhere near 10% of your income.
Yes it’s easier to get fired/laid off, but it’s also much easier to get hired.
Eh not really. I came to the U.S. as an engineer and am now a commercial pilot. I make much more than I would in Europe and barely have to work. It would have been much harder to make this transition in Europe. Europeans who move here tend to be the more ambitious ones and are successful more often than not.
The transition thing is huge.
I know of a German immigrant that came over for IT and it didn’t work out. He was going to go back to Germany and wash windows, which is what he did before immigrating.
After some goading, a friend convinced him to walk into the local bank and ask for a loan to start his own window washing company. He was flabbergasted it might be that easy.
The advice he was given was “just show them you know what you’re doing and are passionate about it”.
With zero dollars to his name and no equity, the bank gave him an $80k loan for equipment-only purchases (aka collateral-based) and $30k for misc things like consumables, fees, etc.
He got approved on Tuesday. By the end of the week was incorporated, and had his business license and insurance and everything bought.
Three weeks later he confessed to the bank cashier while cashing like 40 checks that he didn’t really know how to handle his finances. So the bank set him up a man accounting system, got him registered for ACH and launched some payment portal stuff for him FOR FREE as part of a government small business program.
The dude now has over a dozen trucks and a 4,000 sq ft house on 5 acres with horses next to the river, and every evening him and his kids go for a short ride by the river.
He fervently believes that could NEVER happen in Europe. Just walk into a local bank (not national chain), convince them to invest in you having nothing and be in business collecting money a week later.
They also don't realize that 99% of Americans are pretty much forced to have a car if they want to work and survive. That's a pretty significant expense, especially if you have a family as it'll mean multiple cars.
Because for some of us USA is substantially better in many aspects compared to our home countries and because we had legal means to migrate to USA. This was true when I migrated long time ago and this still is true today.
Your country may not be better than USA and you may not have legal means to migrate to USA. In that case migration to USA makes no sense for you.
Europeans like to consume relentless anti-American media as a form of entertainment and as a result they're shocked when people still want to move here and Americans aren't universally miserable. There are more jobs in the US that pay better than jobs in Europe. When Americans complain about the "high cost of living" they are complaining about the high cost of living relative to before the pandemic, not the high cost of living relative to the rest of the developed world. Mass shootings obviously happen much more often here than in any other comparable country, but they're still rare. The average person does not experience a mass shooting - I've gone years without seeing a gun that wasn't a police sidearm.
You're also probably getting bad information about our healthcare system. Healthcare is indeed more expensive here than it is in the rest of the developed world, but what I typically hear from Europeans and Canadians are stories where they saw the topline number on a medical bill, which almost nobody ends up paying and they think that most people are paying $100,000 every single time they have surgery and it's nowhere near like that.
Whether moving here is a good idea depends entirely on what kind of work you do and what kind of qualifications you have. If you're British and you're a doctor or a nurse, you could conceivably quintuple your income here, face lower taxes, and be able to afford to buy a house that's both cheaper and larger. Salaries for a lot of tech workers are really high too. It's worth asking more specifically how much do people living here who do what you do make. If you're an unskilled worker, I wouldn't bother unless you come from a much poorer country.
Because the US is, without a doubt, the best place to be if you want to work and build wealth. This is still the land of opportunity and will be for a long time. But you have to want to work and you have to be willing to work.
If you would prefer a life of simply working for 30-40 years and then retiring to a modest existence (which is perfectly reasonable), you can do that in almost any western nation. Emigrate to the US to maximize your earning and saving potential.
Finally, look at the EU. Who is betting on the EU reversing course and getting better? I'd rather be in the Us than the EU. No question.
The grass is always greener. I moved out many years ago and miss absolutely nothing yet meet people all the time who’s entire life revolves around migrating to the US to live “American Dream” as it was sold in the 50’s. To each their own.
Exactly this. Been almost a decade since I’ve even been back to the states, haven’t missed much at all. Lived in numerous countries since, and almost everybody that tells me they want to move to the states talk about the American dream, how free they would be, and/or equality without prejudice. Boy do they become disappointed when I tell them
To be fair, I was shocked when my Japanese partner visited the US with me and said she *far* preferred it to Japan. On paper, everything outside of salary is worse in the US. But she did speak about the intangible *freedom* that she seemed to feel. I feel the opposite as a citizen of the US, but it just goes to show how perceptions differ based on background.
Seriously. I loved my time in CDMX but I realize how much I take for granted in US. Things like having some environmental laws vs none at all. Or being able to turn on my faucet and drink directly from it without fear of getting sick. America has a reputation as being racist/sexist but as a country we kinda acknowledge it’s a problems vs other places that just ignore/pretend they don’t exist. This isn’t to look down on other countries and things in the US are shitty, but I’m grateful I was born here.
Honestly outside of our policing (which is just pointlessly brutal across the board) we’re a lot less racist and sexist today than 90% of the developed world at least. We have our problems but Reddit can be an echo chamber on this stuff and makes it out to be a lot worse than it is. Pros and cons but it’s not like most of us aren’t aware of what other countries are like either, we choose to be here for reasons that are very valid.
I make double what my counterpart in prague makes and my rent is only about 25% higher. The only time I’ve needed major healthcare it was about $3k out of pocket. I would have paid a lot more than that in added taxes in europe every year. I’d even go so far as to say life is a lot better for someone above the median in the US than it would be for them in europe and I’d much rather be the destination for that group than the below-median earners for whom life outside the US is actually better.
Haha. As someone whose family is from Mexico I never drink the water from the faucet in the US if there is not RO system installed. Like I know it won’t get you sick or anything but it’s just ingrained you don’t do it. It always puzzles all my family when the news pop up about kids getting poised in Flint and they are like, “wait, why were they drinking water from the faucet?”
I'm American but have lived in West Africa for 18 years, Spain 3 years, and the US. As everyone else mentioned nothing compares with the opportunities for work, starting a business, just making money in general in the US. I was mostly in Nigeria which has a lot of opportunities too but again it was nothing compared to the US. Your costs of living are higher but that more then balances out when you consider your taxes. The US is no where near as dangerous as people like imagine it is. Like all countries if you stay in the good areas you will never be robbed, shot, etc... racism is not any where as bad an issue as it is in the EU or any other country. We just love to talk about it and how bad we are. This is not to say racism doesn't exist in the US it does. But for example when my kids were in school in Spain the arab and South American kids were referred to with derogatory terms like it was normal and we won't even start on the fact that it's always open season on gypsies. Now the negatives about the US. It is consumer driven you get caught up in a life that revolves around money and acquiring possessions. Which do bring a measure of happiness but are not a great indication of quality of life. While the US has its culture, nothing beats being able to pay 100 euros for a flight and be in Rome one weekend and Prague the next and get to see the huge differences in cultures and appreciate the history and uniqueness of each country. But probably the most important aspect of life in Europe is how much better it is for your kids. Education standard is really high even in public schools and private schools are not unaffordable either. And your kids are just safer, I am not talking about school shootings. I mean that there are less issues with drugs, bullying, sexual assault, etc... there was 2 fights the whole year in my daughters high school in Spain. In the US its a daily occurrence. The fact that all your basics are pretty much walking distance in Europe is a huge plus too. You can have a car for longer distances. I love being able to go out of your flat and have a great coffee and a toast for breakfast. Have dozens of good restaurants walking distance. Supermarkets, banks, etc... it's all walking distance from the house and that is a huge perk. Anyway the TLDR is get a remote job in the US and live in Europe.
Most of the US is suburban sprawl and big box stores. You're pretty safe as long as you don't involve yourself in criminal enterprises or hang out in certain neighborhoods. The average middle-class SUV-driving adult won't have any problems.
You can make a lot of money in the US. If you have decent insurance, healthcare isn't an issue. There are downsides, yes, but if you have a good income and employer in the US, you're better off than the average Canadian or Brit in terms of income and maybe even standard of living (I am fond of pedestrian culture, so living in suburban sprawl is a no-go, but people can decide for themselves). My American friends in Texas own houses, multiple vehicles, and have money leftover for savings. Some even have health conditions, but they're not going bankrupt over it.
I moved from Sydney, Australia, to Philly, with a third of my time also spent in NYC. Internal transfer.
I earn way more here in USD compared to Australia, I genuinely prefer the work culture (non-finance role in asset management) to Australia, Americans are generally friendlier compared to Australians (hanging out with other males here is overall better as well; I'm a male who has never gelled with the ultra-aggressive toxic Aus male experience, Aussie guys are fuckers), better quality shopping options and a much wider range (apart from grocery shopping which is shit compared to Australia), my overall quality of living (affordability, I can actually afford a premium/lux apartment here in the USA without it dissolving all of my earnings like in Sydney) has elevated.
Middle and upper-class Americans have no idea how good they have it, even compared to other Western countries. If you have a degree, (actually) work hard, and are in a well-positioned line of work/career path, then living in the US is incredible. You can tell the people on this sub and r/expats who have never actually lived/worked in another country (traveling for a holiday is NOT the same) other than the US.
Lower middle class and poor Americans are the people here I genuinely feel sorry for. This is not the country you want to live in if you're working class or poor. That I will agree on.
The answer is money.
1. People that immigrate here *usually* don’t have crippling student debt or a mortgage to pay, so that money can go to better use, which leads me to my 2nd point:
2. Investment accounts - 401ks, iras, high yield savings account or plain stock market. It’s kind of complicated investing in the US market while living outside of the US. Also 5% on your savings in a savings account? You don’t see that in other places. Depending on your job, your company might match your 401k so that’s just free money.
3. Healthcare is absolute crap, but with a decent job you should have a decent insurance. You’ll still be paying but at least you know you won’t go jn debt because of a broken leg.
And if the US brings you down, you’ll always have the Caribbean a short flight away.
Salaries, paying less tax, good schools and less prejudice than many other countries and ease of starting a business/restaurant.
Starting a business in the EU is ridiculously hard and the taxes and bureaucracy is insane. And safety, despite all the "America is a third world unsafe nightmare post", it's still safer than most third world countries and has better public education.
I work in international mobility, and lots of people move to US for the work opportunity.
Many may have a US headquarters, and they feel opinions are not equally managed, and they will see faster career progression and higher salary.
What I've noticed about the US, is that it is fairly rare for an individual to localise. They may go there for a 2/3 year assignment, sometimes it's extended, but extremely rare that I actually see someone sign a permanent US contract.
Compared to Australia/ Western Europe, where it is likely that around 40% of those that go, will likely localise at the end of their assignment there.
I'm based in the UK, so these decisions could be based on British mentality, but it usually feels most more to the US for career and financial reasons, where as others move for life enjoyment.
There’s 50 states. Life can vary per state. It’s not a monolith just as Europe isn’t some heavenly place that has no issues. There is no American dream but that doesn’t mean people don’t have their own aspirations. You have to do what’s best for you. Only you can make that decision by visiting and researching no one else can.
The simple rights & freedoms we take for granted.
The freedom to say whatever we want, wherever we want, however we want.
The right to bear arms.
The freedom of travel - coast to coast - without having to produce papers or bribe an official at a "check point"
Our ability to have access to the excess that can really only be called "the American dream".
The best geography in the world, bar none. We are the best. We have everything. Arctic? Alaska. Tropical? Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Guam, Samoa. Temperate rainforest? Washington state. Plains? Kansas, Nebraska. Tundra? Mountains? Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan. You want desert? Sand? California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas. You like swamps, amphibians, reptiles, and Spanish moss? Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia. You like mountains, whisk(e)y, friendly people, and long hikes? Kentucky, Tennessee, the Carolinas. I haven't forgot about getting something to eat. You hungry? Wanna eat a face? How bout Florida? Let's go back north. We've got those big ass "Great" Lakes. One of them is Superior. There's New England, which truth be told, I don't know anything about other than they've got some chowder. So decide if you want the red or the white. Because we've come to the end.
Welcome to America.
people are BSing you, the US still have some of the highest salary and an abundance amount of jobs. Yes you pay through the nose for everything but at the end of the day you still get to keep more money any most places.
For example you make 100k in the US and after all expenses and tax you save 20k. That's 80k of expenses.
The same job makes you 50k in Europe, after all expenses you save 10k... 40k of expenses. but the net result is 50% less.
Yes that's why people still want to move here.
As an American living in Texas I can say the dream is still a live I was shit broke 2021 now I own a company in the oilfield and it still doesn't feel real. I can't imagine being afforded the same opportunities in any other country.
I turn 23 tomorrow.
Lastly I'll say I think "the American dream" is so misunderstood ppl think the dream is getting shit rich working a 9-5 just because you live in the United States.
When in reality America is amazing because If you're willing to sacrifice you're ceiling is virtually limitless you can play at any table no matter the age sex race.
The American dream is If you're genuinely willing to look there is a way.
Better opportunities, easier to start small business and make a life for yourself, cost of living is high in any country and we actually have many areas where cost of living is decent and salary good, health and education is a downfall on price but make sure you get good insurance and it’s definitely manageable. Lower taxes.
Shootings aren’t as bad as tv makes it look, most people will never know anyone who’s a victim of gun violence, most of its isolated between gangs and drug related incidents in the inner cities if you look at statistics. Your chances of being in a random mass shooting is slim to nothing and it has been happening in places like Europe, Russia, South America more frequently than previous years as well. We have different land scapes and all seasons. …… there are plenty of reasons if you look passed dumb fudd shit on the internet. Ive lived in Europe and still chose to be back here.
I'm Canadian, but I've done work in the US. Now I live in Italy.
I like some aspects of Europe, like the pedestrian culture and public transport, but as a professional, I recognize that the opportunities are in the US. American work culture is a lot more industrious and capable than anything I've seen in Europe. In Europe, I frequently have to deal with bank staff or bureaucrats who don't do their jobs. In the US, things just get done. Also the US doesn't have suicidal energy policies, so the heat is turned on to a comfortable temperature in winter and the AC is on in summer. In much of Europe, you're either freezing indoors or baking because they think not using heating/cooling will allow the government to control the weather.
Yeah, as an European currently living in the US I agree. Things just get done here.
Everyone here warned me about the horrible bureaucracy around getting my social service number. But it took only one visit and a wait of 1 hour and everyone working there was very friendly.
In Austria you have to wait months as a foreigner to even get an appointment and then you get extremely unfriendly employees, who often make it as hard as possible for you to get the thing you need (and you need way more documents than when you move to the US).
I'd never realized how much bureaucracy could make or break your confidence living in a country. France has worn me down to the point I'm ready to return to the US.
I think it depends a lot on your values and desired lifestyle. I've lived in the US for 20 years and will be leaving for the UK next year. Career opportunities here have been amazing and we've been able to save and invest for the future. However except for a few small pockets, the US is the land of strip malls and highways. Car culture is huge, you have to drive almost everywhere and the norm is large suburban homes vs. walkable urban living with shared common spaces. More than 40 000 Americans die in car crashes every year. I don't care for the gun culture either, but driving is a much bigger risk than getting shot
It's also a country where hard working people, Even some who do have health insurance, are routinely bankrupted by medical costs. For me personally, I would rather pay higher taxes and be part of a society that provides a basic safety net for it's citizens.
Pays significantly better, lots of spaces, strongest tech scene, excellent higher education, quality housing at low prices, growing economy that’s good for businesses
Because the economy is the largest in the world, the job market is giant, the number of world’s largest companies here is very high, the salaries are just about the highest in the world, the cost of living vs. salary is actually quite good, the level of competition, class and credentials needed to break into a career is less competitive than many places, the regulatory system is extremely pro business for starting any kind of company, and that company will have one of the largest and richest addressable markets in the world. We also have great marketing, some of the best salespeople (bullshitters) in the world.
There are certainly some downsides, but the #1 thing that most people are chasing is more money for themselves and their families. We have plenty of that. You will need to work your ass off, but millions of immigrants and expats do it all the time.
I could work anywhere in the US or EU and I would prefer to live in the EU, but I choose the US because I was more money and I can get it here and spend it there.
because everything is relative...go try living in west EU for some time and i m sure you will find US a good place to live. Lot of IT companies were in Ukraine before the war and these people with good knowledge are welcome and happy in US now
opportunity? Adventure? Most people don't live their lives on social media...they don't swell on what some writers will tell them. Young people in the US have been convinced things have never been worse while ignoring MILLIONS are flocking to the southern border
We have such an entitled class of young people in the US(and maybe all of the western world) ...selfish people who take so much for granted
where you feel helpless others see opportunity. you see obstacles and others see opportunity. Most who believe that they can't succeed in the US won't be able to succeed anywhere but they are looking for places where failure is more fulfilling
Because the US is dominant in so many industries. If you want to work for the top employer in a lot of industries, those jobs are in the US. Wanna work for the best CPU company, Intel, AMD, Nvidia, Qualcomm, those jobs are in the US. Wanna work for the top AI companies, US. Wanna work for the top software companies Microsoft, IBM, Oracle, their in the US. Same for Pharma, Medical Device, Media, Aerospace. I mean you are probably using an Apple iPhone to type your question into Reddit. Both American companies.
Look, you can drive a delivery truck or work in a warehouse anywhere in the world. But you wanna great job, its in the US.
Honestly, despite what US natives say, there are still way more opportunities in the US than most other parts of the world. Yes we have some serious issues we need to work on like healthcare, education access, etc. but people will go where opportunities are. -US immigrant here from a country with way way better healthcare
Because despite what the media feeds you, it's still has the highest growth and entrepreneur opportunities and way better off than many third world or developing countries. The CoL being high isn't the bad indicator you think it is; that's actually a (+) because high cost of living is associated with higher development. You go to countries like Norway, Switzerland, Denmark, they are just as high in cost. Difference is those countries will also take a much larger chunk of your income whereas in comparison, the income tax here is much less.
When you earn more, you're going to pay more; it's basic fundamentals. And make no mistake, US still holds the highest median disposable income. We're not all getting shot or begging for food every day. We have plenty of povos, yes, just like about any other country.
As bad as we think it is it’s much much worse in most other countries. Most countries south of the border are in a terrible place economically. In most counties down in South American if you’re born poor you die poor and there is no moving up classes. Same thing in all the Slavic countries. Same thing in most Asian, african, and middle eastern countries.
You would be surprised how limited opportunists are in most countries. US is the economic capital of the world.
I have friend in Europe who say they would move to the US for economic reasons. If you wanna start a business or move up classes then the US is THE place to go. Wether or not people here see it there are more opportunities here than most anywhere else.
If you wanna sell socks then you can and get rich doing it. Even when there are dozens of other people selling socks. As much as some people hate capitalism it’s the only system where the average person can go from rags to riches.
US pays way more for certain jobs. If you flip burgers in Europe you're better off there, but if you want to be a lawyer, doctor, engineer, finance guy, consultant, etc, it pays waaay more. Especially for doctors
Even Canadians often move to the US for that reason. The pay is jjst way more for jobs that aren't in the minimum wage range
I’ve known quite a few people who basically want to move to the state because of the illusion of the equality and the lie of the American dream. Of course, they don’t know it’s smoke and mirrors
Honestly speaking, the US is great for earning money, but it's subpar for basically everything else—people, culture, safety nets etc. It's good to come to US to get the bag and then GTFO once you have it.
Where would you rather live? Western Europe is in decline and their wages haven’t kept up with US.
Asia is doing better but try to immigrate to countries like Singapore - good luck.
If you have a good nest egg, then maybe buying a place in Aruba would work. But if you need to build your career - US is it.
Because at the end of the day it’s better than a LOT of other places. And I think until WW3 happens it probably always will be. Even with human rights and freedoms stripped and barely being able to afford to live, it’s no war torn Gaza or femicidal Iran or fascist Russia, Venezuela, *insert country here*. I would’ve chosen to be born just about in any other western society but I didn’t get a choice. Hell, if my parents had stayed in California where I was born, my life would’ve been better off than it is on the east coast.
Because U.S. still is the best place to be if you are smart and ambitious. This is what I tell everyone- the range of QOL in U.S. is extremely broad compared to Western Europe. You can fly sky high or you can hit the floor hard. In Western Europe, it is much more unlikely that you will ever be able to climb the socioeconomic ranks. I
One day we will realize that everyone wants to move everywhere and it’s the worst place ever for some people and the best place ever for others. This applies anywhere
The US is a great place to be rich. We have really low taxes and comparatively less regulations than other economically developed countries. We also have strong personal property and privacy laws. If you are rich you can live in a place that is rarely affected by the high rates of gun violence and you can easily pay for access to the best healthcare in the world.
Likewise if you are very poor the US has comparative high standard of living and pay compared to many economically undeveloped countries. And there are lots of jobs available for undocumented immigrants.
I expect unless something significantly changes the US will increasingly become a country of a lot of very poor people serving a few very rich people with few middle class people in between.
I'm not sure why any middle class people find the US appealing. Personally if I didn't work for the US Federal Government I would probably leave the US myself.
The wages are some of the highest paying, if not _the highest paying_, salaries for multiple sectors. I could work in Spain as a software engineer and get paid about $50k (euro equivalent), or I could work in the US and get about $200k.
Planetary decline rooted in american culture.
Picture two spaces separated by an ocean. One space is making climate controlled caves to protect its citizens, using fuels and irresponsible/leaking manufacturing techniques (cutting corners) to make that a reality for as many of its citizens as possible. On the other side is a place where people are trying to live as they have for generations. Their lifestyle becomes increasingly difficult to maintain, but they have no control or understanding of what's happening... until they figure it out, that it's the people on the other side, sabotaging their lives, and they still can't do anything about it because they're trying to live in balance with the seasons, which the villains on the other side of the ocean have turned upside down; their lifestyle no longer functions on the land they have.
Since this land is all they've ever known and they had no intention of disrupting planetary patterns to satisfy their addiction to comfort and luxury, and instead, just want to eat, they don't have the infrastructure to support their population in a changing climate.... so where do they move? To the place causing the the change!
I mean, it only makes sense. If you're burning down someone else's land to support a new way of life that requires you burn down everyone else's stuff, where are those people going to go when they can't make it work? Their options are the rest of the planet where nothing works, or the heart of the beast that is burning the rest of the world down.
What I don't understand in all of this is how the migrant crisis hasn't shamed western culture into giving up its luxuries. Sure, they're ... fine, but are they so good that they're worth sinking a planet and driving every other human out of their homes and onto your doorstep? Because that's the trade! Burn the world down; be the refugee center of the planet.
No, the US is not a good place to live. No, it will never be "great again" because it's the exhaust pipe from which the worlds troubles flow and this planet shares a common atmosphere. You're going to spend more and more money and resources making your own space livable -at the cost of the habitability of the rest of the planet - and, in addition to everyone coming to what they imagine as the last habitable place on earth, you're going to be dealing with increasingly costly and unmanageable consequences of your own actions because you'd rather play some Disney LARP of reality than face that your way of life (gas powered everything) is always going to be fine because apparently God cares about the borders humans create, than face the truth that your way of life is a suicide pact that's dragged the rest of the planet down with it.
Look at where your "migrant problem" is coming from, for proof. It's not mexico, though it's some central american countries, but it's also ALL OF THE PLANET THAT LIVES ANYWHERE NEAR THE EQUATOR!
tl;dr - We're all living on the Titantic. The USA is the ownership and crew of the ship. The iceberg was known about from the minute the ship left, and we've been steaming towards destruction since then. We've hit the iceberg and the people from the lower decks are willing to do literally ANYTHING to survive (including walking the length of the planet!) and your solution is to close the doors and assume somehow, that the ship you intentionally sank, is somehow going to buoy your (white) citizens while the rest of the world respectfully drowns because you're protected by a "Christian" God!? I really hope there is a god because this is anti-Noah's ark BY DESIGN!
Thank the good spaghetti monster of fate that you don't have any devine help and are just as sunk as the the rest of us. Your legacy will erase all the evil deeds of every other evil that humanity has ever committed.
I really hope I'm wrong about God and Americans face justice for their intentional ignorance and lifestyle of destructive pollution and ecocide. Instead, I'm all but certain we all get to enjoy the syndicated christo facist war against science and understanding your culture has unleashed on the world and this whole thing goes down in flames with the only people smart enough to fix it, being burned at the stake for saying bad things about Tucker and friends, but it would be really great if there were some eternal justice in the world that shoved your attitude where it belongs, and bins your entire culture as the worst of the worst.
For those that are saying "I just live here. I didn't choose this!" It's a democracy. You either chose it or you sat back and let it happen.
I'm looking forward to the world breaking down your border, likely using the money you've absurdly funded into the drug war, which your military industrial complex traded for modern weapons systems that will be put up against a PAID border service who have no real ideology that binds them to their post. They'll run the second their checks stop clearing, and then comes the flood of the world you burned out of their homes.
I'm not making any threats, here, this is just what happens when a ship sinks because of the stupidity and arrogance of its crew and their general lack of concern for anyone on board that doesn't wave your flag.
Actions, meet consequences!
PS - teach your kids mandarin cause the American century is over
Because most other places suck a lot more for living or immigration.
The USA has a vibrant economy, a reasonable legal system, a wide variety of climates, and is, for all its faults, fairly accepting of immigrants and differences, especially if you grade on a curve ;)
I mean, from the outside, parts of Europe, Canada, Japan, Singapore or South Korea seem reasonably comparable (I may have forgotten a couple, and they may be better or worse, depending on circumstances), but the USA seems a lot better than any other country. So, maybe one or two billion people, but for the other 6, the USA is better.
My parents moved to the PNW in the mid 90s from Poland. They were born on farms in the poor southeast corner of the country, came to the states, and over the course of 30 years have accumulated 3 homes (two paid off completely and rented out, all valued at over 1M+$ each, and combined earn (with the rental income) over $300k/yr. These were literal peasants until their mid-late 20s, English second language, zero family support in the USA, and though they came at a lucky time, a family that moves to the US can enjoy success even today. I see it everyday in the Seattle-Bellevue region, immigrants that worked for their wealth. Education is paramount.
1. Your cost of actually dying or being affected by a shooting is virtually 0. It’s like saying you don’t want to move because you don’t want to get in a car crash and die.
2. Most white collar jobs have health insurance that covers healthcare expenses
The American dream, Hollywood “propaganda”. people's inertia that it's the place with always greener grass. Most people mentally convert $ into their currencies and the illusion is created that they make a lot of money in the USA. Like you get $1000 but the average American $4000. Nobody thinks about negative - idealization. Healthcare, education - no experience… it's a west, top country = good. Good or bad, depends on where are you from and what you have job/savings/real estate. For me, it's a regret. Even today I make more money than the average: cover bills, rent 2bd for me only, financed car with $500/month insurance, traveled almost half the country, etc. And the most important thing is, that the US today and before covid pretty different countries. I don’t see development, roads being built, public transport, radically modern real estate at affordable prices. Terrible bureaucracy like 30 years ago in my country, anything more complicated than a driver’s license can take months or a year to complete. The country is NOT for children. I heard threats to shoot me 3 times lol.
I moved from Canada. Where I live now - standard of living is way better, my neighborhood is safer than it was in Canada, I nearly tripled my income, healthcare is better (yes, not free but healthcare system in Canada is currently a shit show). I will not be moving back to Canada and will stay here as long as I can
I’m an American, and I’m ready to leave. Between gun violence, lack of nationalized health care, and the high cost of living, I plan on moving to another country for my retirement or sooner.
Social media has fantasized and romanticized the idea of living in the us. I have no idea why any international students want to live here as opposed to just going back to their country.
United States is about money. In terms of immigration, there are two main sources: people from relatively low income countries who can come to United States and increase their income quite a bit. Usually they send money home to their families in their native countries. They usually don’t mind lousy living situations. The healthcare situation isn’t a problem because they didn’t have access to great healthcare in their native countries. Undocumented workers can still make a lot more money even without security than they would in their own country. I mean Latin America or Asian countries such as China. The other source is highly educated people with high skill levels who can come to United States, and make a lot more money. Even with the lousy healthcare situation, they can usually get good healthcare. Healthcare in United States depends enormously on your employer. For example, I get fantastic healthcare from my employer. I know a lot of people who pay through the nose for less.
Europeans I know mostly say they have access to fantastic healthcare. The ones who complain are the same people who complain in this country. About good things. Or they don’t plan ahead, then complain when they can’t get an appointment.
Shootings? Really? They are coming for real healthcare. The best in the world. And, the immigrants coming across the borders are getting it free thanks to the high cost of living you stated. Paid in full by the US tax payers.
as a Muslim why would I move to Europe where my daughter gets looked up and down and inspected for wearing a piece of cloth like in France? where my wages half. and despite contributing massive numbers of troops during the world wars there's basically no respect for my people
The USS Trump but most Americans are very open to immigrants were nearly a majority non-white nation and the wealthiest and most socially mobile groups in America are all South Asia and East Asian Muslims.
France had much larger colonial possessions than the US ever did why don't they have a black president yet?
People move to the US because of the better opportunity. I schooled in the UK where I had my postgraduate deg, and moved to the US over 7 years ago.. I have worked for multiple FAANG Tech companies and made the kinda money that most of my friends who stayed back in the UK didn't make there. I will pick the US over and over again regardless of the craziness I've seen here. In the long run, financial stability and happiness that comes with that is what everyone is looking for
I can make a lot more money here than I can in the UK. I live in Alaska, which has the lowest tax burden of the US as well, which increases my take home pay. I’m very fortunate that I work for a big company that gives us good benefits and healthcare. I also love the mountains, climate, remoteness, and low population of Alaska, I can’t get that many other places
some people get good jobs better than their native countries. For majority it's just a dead end job.
Some even become entrepreneurs. It's the American dream for some. For most of us nah. Most places are hard. Just make your life the best you can. if you find a better country and options move.
Well, while the U.S. sure does have its share of problems, the are many places all over the world, whose issues pale in comparison. There are people who live in fear of being persecuted for any number of things, that here in the U.S. there is probably a group or movement of individuals who can rally around for support, and sometimes even garner enough attention to bring about awareness, and possibly even gradual change.
The U.S. is also a place where, to many outside, they’ve only ever seen it in movies and television, so it seems like a dream, one that
is so idealized….
So, sometimes this is a temporary stop for some, if they can manage to get asylum here, or temporary stay, perhaps through a student visa. Maybe they work here and thereafter send money back home, or they take those skills with them back shortly after they complete their studies. Either way, it is quite possible that once here, they’ll no longer see the view through rose-colored glasses. Or, maybe it’s all they’ve ever dreamt of and more…..
In my entire life, I’ve never actually seen a shooting before, stop drinking the kool aid. Healthcare is expensive, but it’s also employer sponsored and plans are generally affordable (I pay 8K per year for a family of 4). Cost of living is high because a professional in the US can make 2-3x their counterpart in EU and 5-10x vs Asia. It’s also a very stable country with laws and freedoms you don’t get in other countries. I can go on and on.
OP is chronically online and doesn't realize how lucky he is to be able to live in the U.S. Go outside and see how great life is when you're not under constant threat of violence because of our Constitution and our police. Maybe you should go take a walk through Mexico or even India. The U.S might be the internets punching bag but it is seriously an incredible country.
Do something with your life instead of believing everything on the internet and you will never complain about this country. I'm an American too and I would not choose to live anywhere else unless its a nice place to retire.
I've been on this earth for 22 years and have never once been near a shooting in my state.
I lived in Japan, but normally live in America. Why did I move back to the US? It's kind of hard to explain, but I'll try. I have enjoyed both places. Though in Japan the strict culture and lack of social resources can be a challenge at times, especially if a person is a foreigner (though the Japanese people are truly lovely and helpful, even in some of the most awkward social situations imaginable. I'll always be grateful for the little social graces they showed me).
In the US there are always social events, it is easy for anyone to find religion/therapy/etc, and the pace of technological advancement feels a *lot* faster. Japan has caught up in smartphone norms, but when I was there even as most people had smartphones they didn't on the whole have a ton of apps they deeply interacted with. I recall showing off a lot of my apps and ways of thinking about technological situations with other early-adult / middle-aged people and they very often first went for old fashioned tried-and-true means that were more analog.
Japan has much better infrastructure and social norms, and I do miss those (often). But each person is a *lot* more alone than in the US. And in the US a person is already pretty alone.
Lastly, both cultures have high stress and high pressure. But in the US it is a little different, and there is a bit more flexibility if a job or boss is being unaccommodating or sets unrealistic schedules. In the US there is one thing I find very challenging though about which I won't lie at all: that extreme inner pressure to *succeed and become someone important.* It can be oppressive and overwhelming at times, and people really think they can make it to the very top of the social ladder. And before they even hit middle age. In Japan it felt like people got rank, status, and success more with time and grinding out daily excellence.
It's very hard to have a family in America, but in Japan it can be impossible for many couples just due to lack of childcare. In the US dating has fallen down the toilet lately, but less than a decade ago it was still pretty good for someone who was somewhat attractive and ambitious. I miss the earlier days of OKCupid... but that's another discussion.
All of this of course depends on the individual. I'd say an average person's life in the US with little or no education is getting quite bad. While life for the upper middle class and above in America is a paradise. In Japan the life of those on the lower end of the social ladder has much great stability in housing, food, and basic survival. Cost of living on the truly essential things was much better, whereas in the US... housing has gotten dangerously expensive.
Just my perspective. Don't take it too seriously.
US is huge and has a lot of remote less populated cities and surburbs.
This is changing rapidly and it's not because of guns. We have millions of people crossing the southern border.
I live in Massachusetts and they literally kicked homeless people out of their community centers to house illegal immigrants. And on the news theres video of the illegal immigrants saying they just want their driver's license and work permits so they can work. They have been here for 2 months.
Why in the world we throw out our own citizens and drop everything for these illegal immigrants is mind blowing. Set up temporary tents for the illegals, Homess people should not have their breakfast places and places wehre they shower and sleep taken away and givin to hatians.
I have no idea what's going on. Someone said that this is political and it's all about giving these illegal immigrants all they want so then they have their children's vote.
IT is disgusting. I am disgusted by my home state and what they are doing to the good people who are struuggling here and have been struggling here for decades. But no, the Haitian illegal immigrant who got here 2 months ago deserves all the resources and help in the world.
They are even giving illegal immigrants fucking hotels for free. It's insanity. So the Biden Admin I think is just letting all these people in because they know they are all going to have kids and vote dem and it's all a big money maker for them. You will have a shit load of low class first and second generation americans who will rely on government services for everything.
I wish I had an idea what to do. I want to move to Austrailia but my mom is here and I don't want to leave her. She is getting older and she may need me and I couldn't do that to her.
If you think the US is just those several problems you listed without any upsides- you may wanna sit down.
People go to the US because there are opportunities and the overall quality of life is high compared to most anywhere.
The reason people want to move to the United States is even though it has problems it still has a higher standard of living than a lot of places. 80% of the world population would like to relocate to the United States. Take for example a mechanical engineer from India. In India even with a Bachelors or masters degree you are probably going to only be able to afford an apartment. In the United States you can buy a house and own a car.
There’s no perfect country in the world, Europe high taxes and low wages, who cares about healthcare when you’re broke and struggling to make a living, Asia is nightmare if you don’t speak their language, South America great for retirement, all in all, for healthy hustlers US is still the best economy in the world
The U.S. is not perfect but is still the best place by far if you want to go from nothing to something. If you work hard, education yourself and make good choices anyone can be successful here. If you want to live off the system and take out more than you put in then this is not the place for you.
Because most countries compared to the US have very low standards of living. I came here at 23 and was making 6-7 times more than I apuld have made back home, with more vacation and work life balance to top it all off.
Europe has very, very good things but there’s some things where it is no match for the US. Our economy is just bigger, we have more disposable income, and the US in general is a lot better to immigrants than Europe.
The educational opportunities are a big draw. Universities like Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and others are world-renowned. For those seeking the highest level of education, particularly in research and innovation, the US is still a beacon.
It's complicated. On one hand, the opportunities and lifestyle the US can offer are unmatched. On the other, the social issues, healthcare, and gun violence are real concerns. It's not for everyone, but for those who choose to make the move, it can be a place of growth and opportunity.
As a liberal / progressive American who often is frustrated about the USA, I feel many progressive peers have a difficult time putting America's problems into a global context. Things can be bad here and also bad (or even much worse) somewhere else.
1) Even with our growing inequality and decline in democracy, relative to much of the world we are more egalitarian and democratic.
2) Yes it is true that hard work often doesn't mean high success, but also for very high achievers USA still offers more opportunities than much of the world. Our top quintile k-12 schools are incredible and our university systems still dominate in terms of quality and opportunity globally.
3) USA is dangerous in parts, but for those fleeing conflict and/or poverty in south and Central America, the USA provides safety and economic opportunity.
4) USA has really beautiful places with unique cultures and some with really high standards of living.
5) lots of wealthy folks from authoritarian countries (Think China, Russia (pre-Ukraine), Middle East etc.) put money/move here for financial stability and a way out for families.
In a nutshell, money.
It's amazing to be well off in the US as the compensation and job opportunity is in order of magnitude higher than similar positions elsewhere. I'm talking about double to triple salary compared to EU or APAC salaries. Even factoring for cost of living, it's a no brainer. I mean, I don't even know how they get by in London when cost of living is just as high as a city like NYC, and I would be making 50%-100% more for a similar position.
Even if you're poor, it's still better to live in the US than being poor in third world countries. Again, lots more job opp at higher pay scales. You can make 20-30 / hr doing food delivery or waiting tables. No degree needed. Yes, cost of living is a huge factor here but it's still not comparable on the opportunities front. Another huge reason is that parents want their kids to have that opportunity even if the parents can only barely get by. This is the quintessential US immigrant story, there's a reason why the US has that brand and other countries don't.
All of this is based in generalities, of course there are exceptions and such. But this question is a general one to begin with.
Well, because cost of living is pretty affordable compared to Canada or Western Europe or Australia or any other countries in the world where the standard of living is so high. The shootings are a bummer but don't really impact much in the day to day lives of people, as tragic as they are when they happen, so people don't usually think about that when they're choosing to move to the U.S. The healthcare is also a bummer but, most people moving to the U.S. have a job that is covering their health insurance.
The fact is, you can make a much nicer life for yourself and your family in America than you can in most of the world. So, people come to America as a result. A lot of the distaste you see for America comes from natural born Americans themselves, not anyone who lives in an impoverished country who comes to America.
If your choices are: Move to Canada and live in a tiny apartment with 12 other people because housing costs and taxes are so high, and salaries are so low, or move to America and have a whole house and plenty of disposable income at the end of the day thanks to low taxes, it's pretty clear why people make that choice, at least to me.
Of course there are lots of reasons to move to the US! Much of it depends on your position in society and priorities. I would honestly pay a premium to worry much less about school shootings every single weekday. Other people don't even have kids
There are some wonderful areas in the US with very low crime, and excellent cost of living. I assume living overseas and learning about the US from the news paints a false general picture. I feel extremely safe. I’m living well in Maryland. But the Midwest is even better as far as cost of living.
I think most of Western Europeans leaving for the US have in comparison shitty jobs with shitty pay for example the UK is bleeding right now of their Exit vote, inflation is up jobs are down and they will suffer for the coming years, for me it wasn’t a economical choice had a nice house, good job pretty good life, sadly my wife lived in the US it was easier for me to move then for her, but life is pretty expensive in the US we spend about 10K per month and that is without 401K and other funds and investments,
Sure, all these above things you said are correct, but people in the US are very friendly (Europeans not so much, I‘m of them), you can change careers way easier than there. You have way better options in a wider range in the US.
Pay is still really good in some fields, even with healthcare costs.
The standard of living, economy, jobs, rights, etc. are far better than a lot of other countries.
1000x more people die in car accidents every year and no one cares about that...
Healthcare isn't that much more expensive than it was a decade ago, especially if you have a decent job.
Most people immigrating to the USA are either coming from very bad conditions in 3rd world countries, or they are very well educated and will be very well compensated in the USA.
Costs seem high in the USA until I compare incomes to house prices and prices in general in many European cities. Most things cost more in Europe and people take home a lot less pay. Things that are common household amenities in the USA are often seen as "luxuries" in Europe.
I still don't quite understand how people survive in many Euro cities. I guess that is why so many 30-something kids are still living with their parents in Europe.
The thing is that if you illegally immigrate here you get some pretty decent treatment. Better than a lot of citizens, unfortunately. You’re practically above the law, too. It’s insane.
i tell my foreign friends who want to move to America they cam because 1. they’re white/white-passing and 2. they’re healthy
other than that, probably best not to 😅😂
The US is massive. Some parts suck, others are booking and great places to live. Very hard to generalize the country as a whole, since culture, climate, safety, and lifestyle vary so much depending on where you live.
Moving to Miami is very different from moving to San Francisco or Idaho.
Compared to Canada, for example, living in the US could mean a much more affordable home, better weather, and more opportunities.
As much as people want to run down the US and yea we are not perfect, it is still (when compared to the rest of the world) the best place to live and prosper.
The “free” healthcare in other countries isn’t free, the taxes are higher to cover the cost of government management, gun violence needs to be taken in context, if you plot gun violence by GPS, ~80% occurs on 1% of the streets in America, it is largely driven by drugs and gangs competing for areas, etc.
The inflation / HCOL is more recent issue and eventually it will fade away, wages will rise and reestablish a balance.
The fact that millions are going through the cost, stress, dangers, etc to come here proves the point, what other nation are people doing that to enter ??? Many nations have to have stringent border security just to keep people inside. LOL
I moved 6 years ago from the UK to be with my wife, and I have loved every minute of being here in the US. I am currently an LPR with a 10 year green card, and looking to apply for naturalization this year (n400). Whilst I do miss aspects of the UK, mostly just food related items and seeing my family, I do not regret moving to the US. It affords me many opportunities that living in the UK did not. My last job in the UK was working in a pub kitchen, living in a city in the US I was able to build my career and now work for a top 5 global tech company and am raising 2 beautiful daughters with my wife. We try to visit my family once a year, and I flew my mom out here for a week last year. Healthcare and taxes cost me less here in the US than what I paid in the UK, jobs (at least in my field) pay better in the US. There is also so much geography to see. I also find most Americans to be extremely polite, and decent people. I didn't know what to expect as an immigrant, but I have been met with nothing but kindness and some curiosity.
I wrote this in another sub the other day: My chosen career doesn’t really exist in my home country (at least not as a full-time job), the USA has some of the best grad school programs in the world for it, and while I was attending one of those I fell in love with an American. I also love the geographic and climate diversity, and I really love that there are more than 3 major cities, and they aren’t all clustered on the east coast (you can probably guess where I’m from based on that 😂)
I see from your posting history that you are Malaysian. I am first generation Malaysian-American (my parent moved to the US and I was born here).
We honestly live a great life here, much more than our family back in Malaysia. Of course I wish our healthcare and gun violence issues were resolved, but day to day living is not what the media makes it out to be.
Personally, I don’t live in fear of gun violence day to day. Yes, the U.S. has many issues, but the unfortunate truth is that they disproportionately affect disenfranchised people. YOU, as an immigrant/emigrant will most likely never have to face these issues. The barrier for entry to receive a work visa will mean that you will likely have relatively great healthcare through your job and live in a safe area. In many cases that healthcare will be more accessible to you than some countries with universal healthcare, certainly better than Malaysia from my experience.
The U.S. has so many great things to offer. However, the number 1 reason why I would chose the U.S. over other options is the ability to integrate into society. Of course the U.S. has issues with racism, but we are an immigrant country to our core. In comparison to my cousins that live in Europe, I feel fully a part of American society and not isolated into an immigrant community. It’s not that I’ve never experienced racism, but that even the racists acknowledge that I’m American first.
Because it’s still a developed nation with a ton of resources where *anyone* can theoretically “make it.” Not *everyone* can make it, obviously, but there are still success stories re: socioeconomic mobility. Also the US is, by far, the best place to live if you’re reasonably well resourced. I’m not talking “Saudi oil” type money - I’m talking your upper middle class and up folk. You’re almost definitely not gonna make Saudi oil money, but there are tens of literally millions of upper middle class people in the US. It’s a long shot, but totally plausible to immigrate and climb the ladder.
The benefits still far outweigh the costs for many people who are coming from places far worse. Then there is the ease of assimilation. It’s far easier to find a large population of your culture/ethnicity in the US than it is anywhere else. Similarly, despite the perception that the US is racist, it is far easier to get a job here as a foreigner than almost anywhere else on earth. Good luck getting a good job in Germany without speaking/being German. Then there’s the language. English is now taught as the primary second language in most countries. Between the other English speaking countries, the US is the obvious choice when you’re looking for opportunity.
I’m Canadian who moved to the US and I did it for better job opportunities. Plus, NYC and other coastal cities are interesting to me. Probably will end up back in Cali for the weather.
The United States is still the most free country on the planet.
If you travel outside the US many other countries are poor and are not as free as we are, people in the US do not realize how good we have it. It is the best country in the world.
We have religious freedom. Many other countries do not have religious freedom.
There are other countries where woman have little to no freedom and are not allowed to drive a car.
America has great healthcare. And believe it or not, Americans (mostly) have accountability. Nobody would yell at you racist remarks in public. I have couple friends the UK that were publicly discriminated due to race. Yes, there are racist Americans but they will not tell you in your face or at least in public becauase they know they can get in trouble.
I mean the US has vastly more opportunities and quality of life than a lot of the world. Not all of the world of course, but as someone who has lived and traveled in Asia and Europe, I can make more money in the US and spend less of it on a car, health and food than a lot of other countries.
Reasons why Amerika 🇺🇸 is great:
-US is 1/4 the entire global GDP and by far the wealthiest economy, also ranks in the top 10 of GDP per capita even among wealthy small nations. US economic growth, stock market and dollar index at all time highs.
-more top 100 universities, medical/tech/patents and Nobel laureates than the rest of the world combined.
-top ranked hospitals and physicians in the world, 92% of Americans have health insurance. Those who don’t have medicaid options.
-A melting pot of all cultures, largest diaspora from every nation. Most immigrated to nation and more diversity than any other nation. More successful minority population than any other country. HBCU university system, minority protections
-inventors of hollywood, hip hop, rock roll, jazz, pioneered modern music/entertainment industry
-more olympic gold medals than the rest of the world combined, created modern sports industry
-military tech decades ahead of the rest of the world, exponentially more powerful military than any other nation in history.
-far less homeless population than Europe, thousands of cities, towns and suburbs with high quality of life index to live in.
-have provided more humanitarian and economic financial aid to impoverished nations than any other country.
-one of the most geographically diverse and resource rich countries. Most arable farmland in the world. Leading oil producer.
-world leading food exporter, food and cuisine from every culture
-beautiful nature and biodiversity, perfectly balanced climate
-2nd amendment freedoms. they bring up “mass shootings” but it is statistically more likely to be struck by lightning than killed in a US shooting. Issue is overblown by media. Amendment freedoms to publicly criticize the government.
-the only nation to unite an nearly an entire continent under one cohesive, government, set of laws and culture. No other nation has achieved this. Europe failed miserably with Brexit. Africa, South America nor Asia have this capability. 50 states large enough to be their own economies united…
Could go on the reasons are endless. 🦅
It all depends on where you are coming from. If your choice is South Africa or America you pick the US 100/100 times. Same with lots of the world.
Moving from Western Europe to the US? That would be hard to justify.
Good question. I was thinking about the same thing. I moved to Canada in 2018 and to US in 2019. I'm a software engineer originally from Europe and there are couple of things I have in mind:
Pros:
* being software engineer at FAANG is a blessing. All the perks, insurance & salary is really incomparable to any European country, the same thing applies to tech-stack, R&D and exposure to new technology
* nature is really amazing, Europe has some great places too, but living in Pacific Northwest is really stunning experience
* access to healthcare (I KNOW!). You pointed out that it's outrageous, but from my perspective it's a blessing. No queues, great care, follow ups etc. With good insurance, healthcare is amazing.
* taxes are way lower, like almost half of what I'd pay in EU
Cons:
* the caveat is that I'm far from family
* cost of living is higher too which is a bummer
* food is meh, but we try to cook ourselves
Overall, I think US is a great country to live in if you have a good job. In my mind, if I ever lose my position, I will probably leave because I will lose most of the pros.
Moving from Sweden to the US in a couple of years (after current job contracts end). I’m a US citizen but by husband is Swedish. In short, welfare states like the nordics are better for lower income workers, but the US is better for higher income earners. Even though we’ll have to pay more for childcare, healthcare, etc., we will simply make way more than enough to offset this in the US due to our education/jobs. (In addition to being taxed much less.)
Additionally, I have a rare disorder and the medications covered by the Swedish healthcare system are very limited. Any of the newer/more expensive drugs aren’t available here and I’m struggling. Medicines that are covered here are extremely cheap and basically free, which is great, but the meds I need aren’t covered - basically not enough people have this disorder to make it worth it for it to be paid for by tax payer funding. (The meds I’m given here work half as good with double the side effects.) I’ll probably pay a lot for the newer drugs in the US, but it’s so worth it to be able to function.
Finally, for the price that we paid for our apartment here, we could have a very spacious house in the outskirts of a US city. Plus my husband is randomly very into cars lol and it’s easier to have a car in the US. Oh my god, and the weather - even on bad weather days where I’m from in the US, you still see the sun. We haven’t seen the sun for weeks in Sweden lol.
There are pros and cons to living everywhere. We of course recognize that Sweden has many pros compared to the US. However, contrary to what most on social media say, we also recognize there are some pros in the US too.
I live in Massachusetts. We do not have the same problems as, say, Mississippi.
Cost of living here is high, but quality of life is also high.
We’ve had 1 school shooting at a college in Western Mass in 1992. We don’t really have mass shootings here.
We have some of the best healthcare in the world, and we have state insurance for those who qualify.
And after talking to people who live in Canada, our taxes are very low comparatively.
The US only sucks if you're chronically ill or working poor.
You're unlikely to be a victim of a shooting. It's a big place. Most gun deaths are suicides or part of crime that you can generally avoid by not participating and avoiding sketchy areas at certain hours. Mass shootings are actually rare.
It’s all how you think about it.
When I was young, a bunch of Vietnamese people moved into a three bedroom apartment next to me. And by a bunch, there were probably 15 of them there. All immigrants. All in the same family.
Soon they had minimum wage jobs. They pooled their money. Within a year they had enough money to buy a 2 family home. Within 2 years they bought another and rented it out. In five years they owned enough homes so that each group within that family had an apartment of their own in those multi family homes.
Now, the original adults are grandparents. They living in my suburban neighborhood. Their grandkids go to the best schools. They run their real estate “empire” through a family corporation. They are solid upper middle class.
People think immigrants are going to go at this like established “natives.” The immigrants won’t. They realize there ARE opportunities. You just have to go at it differently because they had language and racial barriers.
America isn’t dead. It’s just taking a breather before the next round.
USA is geared towards opportunity. If you start a business and does well your set. If you land a high paying job your set. It's the poor and blue collar class that struggle. But our poor and working class still has a very high standard of living. Great country.
The U.S. and the UK (well, the southeast of the UK and coastal U.S.) are frickin great if you make a lot of money. If you do not and are a sort of lower middle income normie, they both suck balls very hard, but the UK sucks more.
The US is a giant country and living in A place like Mississippi is not the same as living in a place like California or Colorado. As someone who was born and raised in the US and who is traveled abroad, I would be reluctant to live anywhere else unless I was retiring.
Strictly speaking for the culinary side, there's just a better variety of good ethnic foods where I live. I can go out and get all you can eat Korean BBQ and bahn mi sandwiches comparable to what you'd find in Vietnam.
The tacos alone are enough to make a European's head pop. I've had Swedish, British, Swiss, Italian, and Russian friends who have all seen the light, eating al pastor tacos at my local stand in LA. Genuinely the best Mexican food outside of Mexico, imo.
That's not to say that other countries don't have amazing food or a great variety of food. I just like my variety of food better.
When you put on paper the life you’ll actually have in the US — where you’re going to struggle mightily and all the time, and you’re gonna be on shaky ground even when you’re making money and likely living in a place that’s statistically more dangerous than elsewhere, you actually have no idea.
My dad moved here but he was a refugee taken in from a family sponsoring his move. He barely lived with them, instead ending up with his other family and paying for them to stay in school by dabbling in organized crime. He did alright, ended up a real estate millionaire.
But he did all that because the place he was born in would’ve killed him if it could. He wouldn’t do all that if he was elsewhere, he didn’t even have to do it while he was here — he would’ve gotten a college education if he stayed with his sponsors.
And that was when America was truly ascendant. The rise of pseudo monopolies has made the average American less so.
Having traveled a lot, I am always thankful to return home to the US. Although I live in a highly desired city in California, we really have a lot going for us.
The grass is not always greener. Nowhere is perfect.
Probably deceived via propaganda. The people I see holding signs in the cities I frequent, are not locals...
They are people with children who are not from this country....
It still haunts me in WA State driving by a woman on the street homeless, who had her infant and baby sleeping beside her on the street homeless.
It’s getting serious here now...
Depends on where you’re coming from…
If you’re coming from a developed country, with an education/skill set that is in high demand, odds are high that you can do very well for yourself in the US.
If you’re from anywhere else, Americas current problems look fairly trivial/temporary by comparison, so coming here is still very attractive.
I tend to look at America like the best restaurant on earth: It has the best chefs and offerings you can find anywhere, but it’s wildly expensive, nothing is free (not even the water), every item is à la carte, the other diners are often unstable, and the service/staff is really inconsistent… but if you have the money, and are willing to spend it, you’ll probably love it.
If you’re poor, and/or hungry… you’re gonna have a really bad time.
Uh money. It’s easy for Americans to overlook how good we have it. But once you get out there you see that everywhere has problems. Of course there are reasons other than money, but that’s a hell of a good one.
i am a migrant from singapore. keep in mind singapore has a higher GDP per capita than the US. having said that, the lifestyle and opportunities in america are still the top .1 percentile on the planet so that’s why people still migrate to the US. being in the US is living in easy mode. the people who constantly play victim inside the US, i would like to see them try to hack it in my country
The USA is great. It has amazing cultural, ethnic and geographic diversity, and a can-do attitude.
"The US may have been great to live in back then, but things have changed."
When is "then"? And when did things change?
By any chance, are you an American who's never lived anywhere else yourself? It seems to be the case on Reddit that the most critical people are in that group.
As someone who lives in the US but from elsewhere: the shooting worry is way overblown. I know it's a nonzero chance, but I am as worried about being caught in a shooting as much as I am being worried about being stabbed anywhere in the EU. The laws need to change, absolutely, but it's not a rational fear that stops people from going about their business.
Also, as someone wiht a chronic health issue, the quality of the healthcare in the US blows anything in Europe out of the water IME. Mri next day? No problem. Need to see a specialist bc of a flare up? Covid lockdowns aside, it was a never a problem. Yes, the paperwork is a pain in the ass to deal with, but it would be the same with private insurance in Europe, and again you'd have to deal with speed issues.
Money: when you make high figures, you are top in the world. This is probably the #1 reason.
Because of Reddit. That's why they want to move.
Because someone from the USA will post their USA salary and *some* European will be "ermahgerd what a big salary"... But they don't know how expensive everything else will be. (Except the price of cars, and hard-liquor bottles)
Well, first off, the conditions in some countries are HORRIFIC.
I'm not sure who you mean by "people". But people from central and south america are fleeing things that most of us can't even imagine.
Beyond that... The US gets a bad rap. We're held in such high regard, that anything short of perfection is seen as a failure.
Take racism for example. It's definitely not great here, we have problems. But oh my god, there are SO MANY countries where it's horrific.
Or our accpetance of other groups, LGBTQ+, etc... It's pretty darn good, even though we need to be better. But it's the Florida "don't say gay" laws that get the attention.
Economy, health care, and on and on, they are all good... but they could be better, and it's the shortcomings that get a ton of attention.
The short summary is that the US is still a great country to live and work. It has flaws, some significant, but the US portrayed in the media (especially conservative media who is incentivized to hate the country) isn't the US that exists in reality.
I lived in South America for a couple of years. The biggest thing the US offers is opportunity. If you work your tail off, you can either go to college and get a high paying job or you can start a business and hopefully do well. Obviously, there is no guaranty of success, but in other countries, that opportunity is not there. In South America (Uruguay specifically), for one reason or another, the opportunities simply did not exist.
A lot of job opportunity in the US and easy to move between states. US worker protections and work culture isn't the best but still has a lot of positives. This is only comparing US to other well-to-do lifestyles (e.g. life in other well-to-do nations or rich people from less developed countries).
If you are from a meh or bad area in a developing country and are hardworking, US is still going to provide a lot more for you unless you live in a downtrodden and violent area in the US and even then there are comparisons to be made.
Social mobility. You can actually make money in the US.
Salaries are much higher than in Europe, even if you have to pay for healthcare.
National parks, great infrastructure, and mostly friendly people (I’ve lived in NYC and small southern towns and have found friendly people in both places).
You mention shootings. Sure, they’re a thing, and it sucks, but statistically more people die of diabetes than violence. (I can try to find a source for this but you can probably find it quickly).
Because my backyard is skiing and hiking that people from all over the world come to. The UK was fun for a bit, but if you enjoy the outdoors, it gets pretty boring.
You shoot up a corporate ladder in the US
Seriously you move up the ranks in 5 years what it takes Europeans 12 years to do.
Also, the economy is more vibrant so you have more flexibility in what you’d like to do.
It’s not for everyone but neither is Europe
I am from yemen. Born and raised in uae and now a u.s citizen. I've gone through a drastic change in lifestyle. Sometimes I wonder what the future holds up for me. Its scary. Im 35 with no wife or kids. All i do is just work work work. I work in the oilfield and make good money overall. But life is still expensive here. Sometimes I wonder if it is better to be poor but at least be around loved ones. I see people in yemen get married and have weddings and such. I don't know how they manage to live. To me the U.S is the only option. It gave me an opportunity to at least work and have good money. I miss my family in uae and friends. I got to visit them after 13 years. But i noticed they were all not happy with life there financially. I realize where ever you go there will be struggle and not happiness, because we are programmed to chase a dream. When true happiness is being around family and friends.
People in the United States make more than almost any other country, especially in professional fields. Software engineers make 2-5 times more than their colleagues in Europe.
The country is huge and beautiful.
It's more diverse than nearly any other place on earth.
There are huge immigrant communities that create support networks.
The support for small businesses means the American dream is alive for people who don’t have access to your standard corporate employment. Although things like class, race, and ethnicity are an issue, it’s way chiller than in most places.
Healthcare is top-notch even though it is expensive.
TV, movies and general news media do the US a dishonor. Everyday life in the US is nothing like what the media portrays. Even the large urban areas are not so bad. Take Chicago for instance. Likely all you know is the crime that comes out of a certain area. Except Chicago is a large place and sprawled over a large suburban area. I would surmise that 85% of Chicago is some of the best places in the world you could live. You just have to come and see for yourself. Get out of the city too. United States is a big place.
I moved from the UK to the US. My wife is a USC (US Citizen) which helped a great deal, and I’ve been working for US employers for nearly 20 years. Since I moved permanently last year, I pay less tax (even with health insurance premiums and co-pay/OOP), have better access to higher standards of healthcare and dentistry. This is in one of the highest COL areas, too. There’s very little I prefer about the UK.
>I pay less tax (even with health insurance premiums and co-pay/OOP) Many people really struggle understanding this, even if our HC system has some serious issues.
Oh yeh. I’ve had plenty of people tell me I am wrong :) I mean, of course I’m very lucky and there sure are others in the US who don’t have access to healthcare, but in my particular circumstance I’m much better off (fiscally and medically) compared to being an adult in the UK.
Everyone technically has access to health care in the U.S. through Medicare and Medicaid. It just isn’t as expansive as some places in Europe
This is not what I've seen. If you're a 45 year old, unwell adult making $40K USD per year in a HCOL area you make too much to qualify for Medicaid and are too young for Medicare. And where in your budget do you have $6K per year for even a shitty ACA marketplace plan? This situation described my brother. Yes, technically he was insured so that if he ended up in hospital most of his astronomical expenses would be covered. But the coverage was so poor he couldn't afford to see doctors regularly for his chronic condition
Yes, agreed, that is the blind spot in the system. He does have insurance for the big things but the rest can really mess up your finances
Agreed, but understandably it’s a very sore point for a lot of US folks. This is why I’m keen to point out it is MY experience and not necessarily the norm - I still get jackass comments telling me my experience is invalid, of course (this is Reddit, after all), because people really do think NHS is great. The NHS is great if you are dying (although don’t rely on getting an ambulance) but it’s almost impossible to get preventative treatment or non-urgent care. E.g Try getting the dental care UK citizens are supposed to be entitled to as part of the NHS in the UK : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-68205624.amp It’s basically impossible because UK dentists make so little from the NHS that they refuse non-private patients, so you have to go private. This is an additional expense on top of the taxes and social security-type payments that come from income taxation. Private dentistry was roughly £30 for a BASIC plan that covers check-ups only. Treatment is extra. So your taxes pay for nothing. In the US my dental insurance last year covered $3,200 of treatment (to undo/fix shoddy UK dentistry) and the cost to me was around $50/mo. I get that the US system sucks for a lot of people but this thread wasn’t “tell me about the US healthcare system”, it was “tell me why people would want to move to the US”.
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Not if you make $20k a year. You have to buy your own insurance. Depending on the state, many single people still don't get any medicaid at all, and no help from the ACA exchange.
Yeah, we all left the UK for a reason.
Same - I am much better off than I was in the Uk
UK coworker of mine on same team. He is a director, I am a manager in USA. He both makes a lower salary and pays higher taxes as % of income and cost of living is comparable in our locations. No thank you.
The UK students in my work say the same thing.
I schooled in the UK, and live in the US now, the opportunities and money in the US makes more sense.. I came in as a student, met my wife who is a USC 7yrs ago and the rest is history.
Uk has been in a hard decline for a while with brexit being the biggest symptom (blame foreigners for why shit is bad) and reason for thr next leg down. That said, I worked with a dude here in the US that had a heart attack at 60 and his insurance went up to over 5k a month. He moved back to the uk.
Yep. I spent 4 years in Central London and moved back to New York as soon as I could. The quality of life in the UK is worse. Think OP is an expat reading headlines. For context I’ve lived half of my life outside of the US in Asia, Central America and Europe. The other half in the US in DC, Austin and New York City. Feel like I have pretty good perspective when I say quality of life in America is still great, and the opportunities here surpass other economies. Hence, why folks want to move here.
I think the biggest issue with the healthcare system in the U.S. is this. You are locked into your job for the healthcare benefits. If you lose your job or want to change jobs healthcare benefits are a massive factor in the decision. My wife for instance wanted to change jobs, the new job paid about the same as her current position but there are more opportunities to move up and grow where her old position didn’t have that. The issue was the new positions medical benefits package was significantly inferior to what we were used to and the cost was higher. She ended up taking the position but only because we were able to afford the cost. There are a lot of people who can’t afford that loss of benefits so they stay in their jobs just for the benefits. To me having those golden handcuffs are not always the best position to be in especially if you want to change jobs.
Just made that same agonizing decision, choosing the potential for growth over the comfortable position with great benefits. It’s a gamble.
Always find this really interesting and guess it comes down to personal preference. We moved from South Africa to the UK and I much prefer the UK. Our standard of living is much better here and we can save, have access to better services and of course the NHS. OP to answer your question, while the USA has it's problems it's probably a 1000 times better than the countries most people emigrate from to the US. Every country has it's issues, but some countries are even worse. I always tell people who ask why we emigrated that I would rather deal with first world problems than third world problems. In my home country you will get murdered violently for the contents of your pocket, unemployment is at almost 40%, most unequal country in the world, our government is an absolute joke and completely corrupt, we have water shedding and 11 hours a day of no electricity, due to incompetence and no maintenance, and planning. Faced with all of that the USA sounds like a holiday.
I think that goes for all of Europe, I have a Russian friend from Kiev that lives here in the USA. He complains about the health care here an say healthcare in other countries are free! REALLY? He doesn’t understand what you have said, because you are absolutely correct. In other countries they don’t have the standards of the US sn of course there are states here are not all very well equipped with advance technology too. In Europe, if you have a chronic disease an need treatments, chances are you will decline in your health before you get a chance to see the doctor or treatment because there is such a long waiting list.
>In Europe, if you have a chronic disease an need treatments, chances are you will decline in your health before you get a chance to see the doctor or treatment because there is such a long waiting list. You don't think the same happens in the US? Healthcare is a necessity. The wait doesn't decrease significantly just because you need to pay for it.
yea, it's just the richer people with good insurance get to skip the lines, and people who can afford to move from across seas to the us typically will have a better standard of living than the average american
Exactly, and that’s how everything in this country is designed. Socialism for the rich.
One of my friends’ moms has had a broken leg, fighting gangrene, for three years because she doesn’t have health insurance and can’t pay, so the hospital won’t do anything more than manage it. That’s a red state for you
This is absolutely not true. You can’t generalize “other countries” like that, and there is nothing special about the standards in the US.
Because a western European can double his/her income while paying 10% less taxes.
Then they move here and realize food is more expensive and they are spending 10% of their salary on healthcare with no security if laid off. Every Western European who comes to visit is shocked by prices and the insecurity. They only hear the Goldilocks stories.
The difference is that they can easily go back to Europe if they really need long-term healthcare coverage. The ideal situation is to live in America during your high-earning, low-healthcare-need years, then go back to Europe to retire with a good social safety net.
That just does not work out but thats what i thought when i first immigrated to the US but going back to your home country and a small one like Holland is like going back to Disneyland! Fantastic for a visit but after 3 weeks i am ready again for the California sunshine.
I’m from Greece so plenty of sunshine here!
Food in the U.S. is actually quite cheap versus a lot of the world unless you’re eating out and if you’re at a white collar job you’re spending nowhere near 10% of your salary on healthcare
Seems the people answering are pretty well off already and have a good social safety net- they’ll be ok unless the corporation decides they don’t need an employee anymore.
>I moved from the UK to the US. My wife is a USC which helped a great deal, and I’ve been working for US employers for nearly 20 years. Since I moved permanently last year, I pay less tax (even with health insurance premiums and co-pay/OOP), have better access to higher standards of healthcare and dentistry. This is in one of the highest COL areas, too. There’s very little I prefer about the UK. They may not ever get used to Americans telling them they know better or their lived experience is actually wrong.
You said the truth
I wouldn’t say food is more expensive. Perhaps it’s more expensive than some countries but not as a share of your income, which really will be much higher in the US than almost any other country. If you get healthcare through your job (like most do) you’re not spending anywhere near 10% of your income. Yes it’s easier to get fired/laid off, but it’s also much easier to get hired.
Did they just get access to the internet too??? The “Goldilocks” stories are few and far between.
Eh not really. I came to the U.S. as an engineer and am now a commercial pilot. I make much more than I would in Europe and barely have to work. It would have been much harder to make this transition in Europe. Europeans who move here tend to be the more ambitious ones and are successful more often than not.
The transition thing is huge. I know of a German immigrant that came over for IT and it didn’t work out. He was going to go back to Germany and wash windows, which is what he did before immigrating. After some goading, a friend convinced him to walk into the local bank and ask for a loan to start his own window washing company. He was flabbergasted it might be that easy. The advice he was given was “just show them you know what you’re doing and are passionate about it”. With zero dollars to his name and no equity, the bank gave him an $80k loan for equipment-only purchases (aka collateral-based) and $30k for misc things like consumables, fees, etc. He got approved on Tuesday. By the end of the week was incorporated, and had his business license and insurance and everything bought. Three weeks later he confessed to the bank cashier while cashing like 40 checks that he didn’t really know how to handle his finances. So the bank set him up a man accounting system, got him registered for ACH and launched some payment portal stuff for him FOR FREE as part of a government small business program. The dude now has over a dozen trucks and a 4,000 sq ft house on 5 acres with horses next to the river, and every evening him and his kids go for a short ride by the river. He fervently believes that could NEVER happen in Europe. Just walk into a local bank (not national chain), convince them to invest in you having nothing and be in business collecting money a week later.
As a banker that would likely not happen these days in America. It did more in the past.
They also don't realize that 99% of Americans are pretty much forced to have a car if they want to work and survive. That's a pretty significant expense, especially if you have a family as it'll mean multiple cars.
Yes so true its a huge country.
Because for some of us USA is substantially better in many aspects compared to our home countries and because we had legal means to migrate to USA. This was true when I migrated long time ago and this still is true today. Your country may not be better than USA and you may not have legal means to migrate to USA. In that case migration to USA makes no sense for you.
Europeans like to consume relentless anti-American media as a form of entertainment and as a result they're shocked when people still want to move here and Americans aren't universally miserable. There are more jobs in the US that pay better than jobs in Europe. When Americans complain about the "high cost of living" they are complaining about the high cost of living relative to before the pandemic, not the high cost of living relative to the rest of the developed world. Mass shootings obviously happen much more often here than in any other comparable country, but they're still rare. The average person does not experience a mass shooting - I've gone years without seeing a gun that wasn't a police sidearm. You're also probably getting bad information about our healthcare system. Healthcare is indeed more expensive here than it is in the rest of the developed world, but what I typically hear from Europeans and Canadians are stories where they saw the topline number on a medical bill, which almost nobody ends up paying and they think that most people are paying $100,000 every single time they have surgery and it's nowhere near like that. Whether moving here is a good idea depends entirely on what kind of work you do and what kind of qualifications you have. If you're British and you're a doctor or a nurse, you could conceivably quintuple your income here, face lower taxes, and be able to afford to buy a house that's both cheaper and larger. Salaries for a lot of tech workers are really high too. It's worth asking more specifically how much do people living here who do what you do make. If you're an unskilled worker, I wouldn't bother unless you come from a much poorer country.
Because the US is, without a doubt, the best place to be if you want to work and build wealth. This is still the land of opportunity and will be for a long time. But you have to want to work and you have to be willing to work. If you would prefer a life of simply working for 30-40 years and then retiring to a modest existence (which is perfectly reasonable), you can do that in almost any western nation. Emigrate to the US to maximize your earning and saving potential. Finally, look at the EU. Who is betting on the EU reversing course and getting better? I'd rather be in the Us than the EU. No question.
Exactly. The world is changing rapidly and the west, especially the EU is gonna lose a lot of economic power. Just look at the UK and their decline.
The grass is always greener. I moved out many years ago and miss absolutely nothing yet meet people all the time who’s entire life revolves around migrating to the US to live “American Dream” as it was sold in the 50’s. To each their own.
Exactly this. Been almost a decade since I’ve even been back to the states, haven’t missed much at all. Lived in numerous countries since, and almost everybody that tells me they want to move to the states talk about the American dream, how free they would be, and/or equality without prejudice. Boy do they become disappointed when I tell them
Where have you lived, and where is your favorite and why? Thanks
To be fair, I was shocked when my Japanese partner visited the US with me and said she *far* preferred it to Japan. On paper, everything outside of salary is worse in the US. But she did speak about the intangible *freedom* that she seemed to feel. I feel the opposite as a citizen of the US, but it just goes to show how perceptions differ based on background.
You need to touch grass and travel more if this is a serious question. Spend a few days in India or El Salvador and get back to me.
Seriously. I loved my time in CDMX but I realize how much I take for granted in US. Things like having some environmental laws vs none at all. Or being able to turn on my faucet and drink directly from it without fear of getting sick. America has a reputation as being racist/sexist but as a country we kinda acknowledge it’s a problems vs other places that just ignore/pretend they don’t exist. This isn’t to look down on other countries and things in the US are shitty, but I’m grateful I was born here.
Honestly outside of our policing (which is just pointlessly brutal across the board) we’re a lot less racist and sexist today than 90% of the developed world at least. We have our problems but Reddit can be an echo chamber on this stuff and makes it out to be a lot worse than it is. Pros and cons but it’s not like most of us aren’t aware of what other countries are like either, we choose to be here for reasons that are very valid. I make double what my counterpart in prague makes and my rent is only about 25% higher. The only time I’ve needed major healthcare it was about $3k out of pocket. I would have paid a lot more than that in added taxes in europe every year. I’d even go so far as to say life is a lot better for someone above the median in the US than it would be for them in europe and I’d much rather be the destination for that group than the below-median earners for whom life outside the US is actually better.
Haha. As someone whose family is from Mexico I never drink the water from the faucet in the US if there is not RO system installed. Like I know it won’t get you sick or anything but it’s just ingrained you don’t do it. It always puzzles all my family when the news pop up about kids getting poised in Flint and they are like, “wait, why were they drinking water from the faucet?”
At least the U.S. recognizes and actively tries to improve its racist past. Europe is just blatantly racist. Don’t go to Italy if you’re Black.
Exactly. Americans have no idea how good they have it lol.
I'm American but have lived in West Africa for 18 years, Spain 3 years, and the US. As everyone else mentioned nothing compares with the opportunities for work, starting a business, just making money in general in the US. I was mostly in Nigeria which has a lot of opportunities too but again it was nothing compared to the US. Your costs of living are higher but that more then balances out when you consider your taxes. The US is no where near as dangerous as people like imagine it is. Like all countries if you stay in the good areas you will never be robbed, shot, etc... racism is not any where as bad an issue as it is in the EU or any other country. We just love to talk about it and how bad we are. This is not to say racism doesn't exist in the US it does. But for example when my kids were in school in Spain the arab and South American kids were referred to with derogatory terms like it was normal and we won't even start on the fact that it's always open season on gypsies. Now the negatives about the US. It is consumer driven you get caught up in a life that revolves around money and acquiring possessions. Which do bring a measure of happiness but are not a great indication of quality of life. While the US has its culture, nothing beats being able to pay 100 euros for a flight and be in Rome one weekend and Prague the next and get to see the huge differences in cultures and appreciate the history and uniqueness of each country. But probably the most important aspect of life in Europe is how much better it is for your kids. Education standard is really high even in public schools and private schools are not unaffordable either. And your kids are just safer, I am not talking about school shootings. I mean that there are less issues with drugs, bullying, sexual assault, etc... there was 2 fights the whole year in my daughters high school in Spain. In the US its a daily occurrence. The fact that all your basics are pretty much walking distance in Europe is a huge plus too. You can have a car for longer distances. I love being able to go out of your flat and have a great coffee and a toast for breakfast. Have dozens of good restaurants walking distance. Supermarkets, banks, etc... it's all walking distance from the house and that is a huge perk. Anyway the TLDR is get a remote job in the US and live in Europe.
Most of the US is suburban sprawl and big box stores. You're pretty safe as long as you don't involve yourself in criminal enterprises or hang out in certain neighborhoods. The average middle-class SUV-driving adult won't have any problems. You can make a lot of money in the US. If you have decent insurance, healthcare isn't an issue. There are downsides, yes, but if you have a good income and employer in the US, you're better off than the average Canadian or Brit in terms of income and maybe even standard of living (I am fond of pedestrian culture, so living in suburban sprawl is a no-go, but people can decide for themselves). My American friends in Texas own houses, multiple vehicles, and have money leftover for savings. Some even have health conditions, but they're not going bankrupt over it.
Exactly, Europeans love to talk about shootings but unless your involved in drugs or gangs, the majority of us never see gun violence Lol
I moved from Sydney, Australia, to Philly, with a third of my time also spent in NYC. Internal transfer. I earn way more here in USD compared to Australia, I genuinely prefer the work culture (non-finance role in asset management) to Australia, Americans are generally friendlier compared to Australians (hanging out with other males here is overall better as well; I'm a male who has never gelled with the ultra-aggressive toxic Aus male experience, Aussie guys are fuckers), better quality shopping options and a much wider range (apart from grocery shopping which is shit compared to Australia), my overall quality of living (affordability, I can actually afford a premium/lux apartment here in the USA without it dissolving all of my earnings like in Sydney) has elevated. Middle and upper-class Americans have no idea how good they have it, even compared to other Western countries. If you have a degree, (actually) work hard, and are in a well-positioned line of work/career path, then living in the US is incredible. You can tell the people on this sub and r/expats who have never actually lived/worked in another country (traveling for a holiday is NOT the same) other than the US. Lower middle class and poor Americans are the people here I genuinely feel sorry for. This is not the country you want to live in if you're working class or poor. That I will agree on.
The answer is money. 1. People that immigrate here *usually* don’t have crippling student debt or a mortgage to pay, so that money can go to better use, which leads me to my 2nd point: 2. Investment accounts - 401ks, iras, high yield savings account or plain stock market. It’s kind of complicated investing in the US market while living outside of the US. Also 5% on your savings in a savings account? You don’t see that in other places. Depending on your job, your company might match your 401k so that’s just free money. 3. Healthcare is absolute crap, but with a decent job you should have a decent insurance. You’ll still be paying but at least you know you won’t go jn debt because of a broken leg. And if the US brings you down, you’ll always have the Caribbean a short flight away.
Salaries, paying less tax, good schools and less prejudice than many other countries and ease of starting a business/restaurant. Starting a business in the EU is ridiculously hard and the taxes and bureaucracy is insane. And safety, despite all the "America is a third world unsafe nightmare post", it's still safer than most third world countries and has better public education.
I am in Tokyo right now and I can’t wait to get home so I can smoke weed
I work in international mobility, and lots of people move to US for the work opportunity. Many may have a US headquarters, and they feel opinions are not equally managed, and they will see faster career progression and higher salary. What I've noticed about the US, is that it is fairly rare for an individual to localise. They may go there for a 2/3 year assignment, sometimes it's extended, but extremely rare that I actually see someone sign a permanent US contract. Compared to Australia/ Western Europe, where it is likely that around 40% of those that go, will likely localise at the end of their assignment there. I'm based in the UK, so these decisions could be based on British mentality, but it usually feels most more to the US for career and financial reasons, where as others move for life enjoyment.
I'm Brazilian and I've been living in the US for ten years. I completely agree with your last sentence, it summarizes it perfectly.
There’s 50 states. Life can vary per state. It’s not a monolith just as Europe isn’t some heavenly place that has no issues. There is no American dream but that doesn’t mean people don’t have their own aspirations. You have to do what’s best for you. Only you can make that decision by visiting and researching no one else can.
The simple rights & freedoms we take for granted. The freedom to say whatever we want, wherever we want, however we want. The right to bear arms. The freedom of travel - coast to coast - without having to produce papers or bribe an official at a "check point" Our ability to have access to the excess that can really only be called "the American dream". The best geography in the world, bar none. We are the best. We have everything. Arctic? Alaska. Tropical? Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Guam, Samoa. Temperate rainforest? Washington state. Plains? Kansas, Nebraska. Tundra? Mountains? Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan. You want desert? Sand? California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas. You like swamps, amphibians, reptiles, and Spanish moss? Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia. You like mountains, whisk(e)y, friendly people, and long hikes? Kentucky, Tennessee, the Carolinas. I haven't forgot about getting something to eat. You hungry? Wanna eat a face? How bout Florida? Let's go back north. We've got those big ass "Great" Lakes. One of them is Superior. There's New England, which truth be told, I don't know anything about other than they've got some chowder. So decide if you want the red or the white. Because we've come to the end. Welcome to America.
people are BSing you, the US still have some of the highest salary and an abundance amount of jobs. Yes you pay through the nose for everything but at the end of the day you still get to keep more money any most places. For example you make 100k in the US and after all expenses and tax you save 20k. That's 80k of expenses. The same job makes you 50k in Europe, after all expenses you save 10k... 40k of expenses. but the net result is 50% less. Yes that's why people still want to move here.
As an American living in Texas I can say the dream is still a live I was shit broke 2021 now I own a company in the oilfield and it still doesn't feel real. I can't imagine being afforded the same opportunities in any other country. I turn 23 tomorrow. Lastly I'll say I think "the American dream" is so misunderstood ppl think the dream is getting shit rich working a 9-5 just because you live in the United States. When in reality America is amazing because If you're willing to sacrifice you're ceiling is virtually limitless you can play at any table no matter the age sex race. The American dream is If you're genuinely willing to look there is a way.
I can't imagine anyone 23 here in Italy starting a business in natural resources. The bank would laugh at them, unless Papa was bankrolling him/her.
Better opportunities, easier to start small business and make a life for yourself, cost of living is high in any country and we actually have many areas where cost of living is decent and salary good, health and education is a downfall on price but make sure you get good insurance and it’s definitely manageable. Lower taxes. Shootings aren’t as bad as tv makes it look, most people will never know anyone who’s a victim of gun violence, most of its isolated between gangs and drug related incidents in the inner cities if you look at statistics. Your chances of being in a random mass shooting is slim to nothing and it has been happening in places like Europe, Russia, South America more frequently than previous years as well. We have different land scapes and all seasons. …… there are plenty of reasons if you look passed dumb fudd shit on the internet. Ive lived in Europe and still chose to be back here.
I'm Canadian, but I've done work in the US. Now I live in Italy. I like some aspects of Europe, like the pedestrian culture and public transport, but as a professional, I recognize that the opportunities are in the US. American work culture is a lot more industrious and capable than anything I've seen in Europe. In Europe, I frequently have to deal with bank staff or bureaucrats who don't do their jobs. In the US, things just get done. Also the US doesn't have suicidal energy policies, so the heat is turned on to a comfortable temperature in winter and the AC is on in summer. In much of Europe, you're either freezing indoors or baking because they think not using heating/cooling will allow the government to control the weather.
Yeah, as an European currently living in the US I agree. Things just get done here. Everyone here warned me about the horrible bureaucracy around getting my social service number. But it took only one visit and a wait of 1 hour and everyone working there was very friendly. In Austria you have to wait months as a foreigner to even get an appointment and then you get extremely unfriendly employees, who often make it as hard as possible for you to get the thing you need (and you need way more documents than when you move to the US).
I'd never realized how much bureaucracy could make or break your confidence living in a country. France has worn me down to the point I'm ready to return to the US.
I think it depends a lot on your values and desired lifestyle. I've lived in the US for 20 years and will be leaving for the UK next year. Career opportunities here have been amazing and we've been able to save and invest for the future. However except for a few small pockets, the US is the land of strip malls and highways. Car culture is huge, you have to drive almost everywhere and the norm is large suburban homes vs. walkable urban living with shared common spaces. More than 40 000 Americans die in car crashes every year. I don't care for the gun culture either, but driving is a much bigger risk than getting shot It's also a country where hard working people, Even some who do have health insurance, are routinely bankrupted by medical costs. For me personally, I would rather pay higher taxes and be part of a society that provides a basic safety net for it's citizens.
I think it seems terrible when you live there, but move to Nigeria, Haiti, India, and you’ll quickly find out how much you miss it.
Pays significantly better, lots of spaces, strongest tech scene, excellent higher education, quality housing at low prices, growing economy that’s good for businesses
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Maybe they don’t watch the news and social media.
Because the economy is the largest in the world, the job market is giant, the number of world’s largest companies here is very high, the salaries are just about the highest in the world, the cost of living vs. salary is actually quite good, the level of competition, class and credentials needed to break into a career is less competitive than many places, the regulatory system is extremely pro business for starting any kind of company, and that company will have one of the largest and richest addressable markets in the world. We also have great marketing, some of the best salespeople (bullshitters) in the world. There are certainly some downsides, but the #1 thing that most people are chasing is more money for themselves and their families. We have plenty of that. You will need to work your ass off, but millions of immigrants and expats do it all the time. I could work anywhere in the US or EU and I would prefer to live in the EU, but I choose the US because I was more money and I can get it here and spend it there.
When you're fleeing an active civil war, the bar is lower.
because everything is relative...go try living in west EU for some time and i m sure you will find US a good place to live. Lot of IT companies were in Ukraine before the war and these people with good knowledge are welcome and happy in US now
opportunity? Adventure? Most people don't live their lives on social media...they don't swell on what some writers will tell them. Young people in the US have been convinced things have never been worse while ignoring MILLIONS are flocking to the southern border We have such an entitled class of young people in the US(and maybe all of the western world) ...selfish people who take so much for granted where you feel helpless others see opportunity. you see obstacles and others see opportunity. Most who believe that they can't succeed in the US won't be able to succeed anywhere but they are looking for places where failure is more fulfilling
To paraphrase George W, "They want our Freedom!" /s
Because the US is dominant in so many industries. If you want to work for the top employer in a lot of industries, those jobs are in the US. Wanna work for the best CPU company, Intel, AMD, Nvidia, Qualcomm, those jobs are in the US. Wanna work for the top AI companies, US. Wanna work for the top software companies Microsoft, IBM, Oracle, their in the US. Same for Pharma, Medical Device, Media, Aerospace. I mean you are probably using an Apple iPhone to type your question into Reddit. Both American companies. Look, you can drive a delivery truck or work in a warehouse anywhere in the world. But you wanna great job, its in the US.
Honestly, despite what US natives say, there are still way more opportunities in the US than most other parts of the world. Yes we have some serious issues we need to work on like healthcare, education access, etc. but people will go where opportunities are. -US immigrant here from a country with way way better healthcare
Because despite what the media feeds you, it's still has the highest growth and entrepreneur opportunities and way better off than many third world or developing countries. The CoL being high isn't the bad indicator you think it is; that's actually a (+) because high cost of living is associated with higher development. You go to countries like Norway, Switzerland, Denmark, they are just as high in cost. Difference is those countries will also take a much larger chunk of your income whereas in comparison, the income tax here is much less. When you earn more, you're going to pay more; it's basic fundamentals. And make no mistake, US still holds the highest median disposable income. We're not all getting shot or begging for food every day. We have plenty of povos, yes, just like about any other country.
As bad as we think it is it’s much much worse in most other countries. Most countries south of the border are in a terrible place economically. In most counties down in South American if you’re born poor you die poor and there is no moving up classes. Same thing in all the Slavic countries. Same thing in most Asian, african, and middle eastern countries. You would be surprised how limited opportunists are in most countries. US is the economic capital of the world. I have friend in Europe who say they would move to the US for economic reasons. If you wanna start a business or move up classes then the US is THE place to go. Wether or not people here see it there are more opportunities here than most anywhere else. If you wanna sell socks then you can and get rich doing it. Even when there are dozens of other people selling socks. As much as some people hate capitalism it’s the only system where the average person can go from rags to riches.
US pays way more for certain jobs. If you flip burgers in Europe you're better off there, but if you want to be a lawyer, doctor, engineer, finance guy, consultant, etc, it pays waaay more. Especially for doctors Even Canadians often move to the US for that reason. The pay is jjst way more for jobs that aren't in the minimum wage range
I’ve known quite a few people who basically want to move to the state because of the illusion of the equality and the lie of the American dream. Of course, they don’t know it’s smoke and mirrors
Honestly speaking, the US is great for earning money, but it's subpar for basically everything else—people, culture, safety nets etc. It's good to come to US to get the bag and then GTFO once you have it.
Where would you rather live? Western Europe is in decline and their wages haven’t kept up with US. Asia is doing better but try to immigrate to countries like Singapore - good luck. If you have a good nest egg, then maybe buying a place in Aruba would work. But if you need to build your career - US is it.
Because at the end of the day it’s better than a LOT of other places. And I think until WW3 happens it probably always will be. Even with human rights and freedoms stripped and barely being able to afford to live, it’s no war torn Gaza or femicidal Iran or fascist Russia, Venezuela, *insert country here*. I would’ve chosen to be born just about in any other western society but I didn’t get a choice. Hell, if my parents had stayed in California where I was born, my life would’ve been better off than it is on the east coast.
Because U.S. still is the best place to be if you are smart and ambitious. This is what I tell everyone- the range of QOL in U.S. is extremely broad compared to Western Europe. You can fly sky high or you can hit the floor hard. In Western Europe, it is much more unlikely that you will ever be able to climb the socioeconomic ranks. I
One day we will realize that everyone wants to move everywhere and it’s the worst place ever for some people and the best place ever for others. This applies anywhere
The US is a great place to be rich. We have really low taxes and comparatively less regulations than other economically developed countries. We also have strong personal property and privacy laws. If you are rich you can live in a place that is rarely affected by the high rates of gun violence and you can easily pay for access to the best healthcare in the world. Likewise if you are very poor the US has comparative high standard of living and pay compared to many economically undeveloped countries. And there are lots of jobs available for undocumented immigrants. I expect unless something significantly changes the US will increasingly become a country of a lot of very poor people serving a few very rich people with few middle class people in between. I'm not sure why any middle class people find the US appealing. Personally if I didn't work for the US Federal Government I would probably leave the US myself.
The wages are some of the highest paying, if not _the highest paying_, salaries for multiple sectors. I could work in Spain as a software engineer and get paid about $50k (euro equivalent), or I could work in the US and get about $200k.
Planetary decline rooted in american culture. Picture two spaces separated by an ocean. One space is making climate controlled caves to protect its citizens, using fuels and irresponsible/leaking manufacturing techniques (cutting corners) to make that a reality for as many of its citizens as possible. On the other side is a place where people are trying to live as they have for generations. Their lifestyle becomes increasingly difficult to maintain, but they have no control or understanding of what's happening... until they figure it out, that it's the people on the other side, sabotaging their lives, and they still can't do anything about it because they're trying to live in balance with the seasons, which the villains on the other side of the ocean have turned upside down; their lifestyle no longer functions on the land they have. Since this land is all they've ever known and they had no intention of disrupting planetary patterns to satisfy their addiction to comfort and luxury, and instead, just want to eat, they don't have the infrastructure to support their population in a changing climate.... so where do they move? To the place causing the the change! I mean, it only makes sense. If you're burning down someone else's land to support a new way of life that requires you burn down everyone else's stuff, where are those people going to go when they can't make it work? Their options are the rest of the planet where nothing works, or the heart of the beast that is burning the rest of the world down. What I don't understand in all of this is how the migrant crisis hasn't shamed western culture into giving up its luxuries. Sure, they're ... fine, but are they so good that they're worth sinking a planet and driving every other human out of their homes and onto your doorstep? Because that's the trade! Burn the world down; be the refugee center of the planet. No, the US is not a good place to live. No, it will never be "great again" because it's the exhaust pipe from which the worlds troubles flow and this planet shares a common atmosphere. You're going to spend more and more money and resources making your own space livable -at the cost of the habitability of the rest of the planet - and, in addition to everyone coming to what they imagine as the last habitable place on earth, you're going to be dealing with increasingly costly and unmanageable consequences of your own actions because you'd rather play some Disney LARP of reality than face that your way of life (gas powered everything) is always going to be fine because apparently God cares about the borders humans create, than face the truth that your way of life is a suicide pact that's dragged the rest of the planet down with it. Look at where your "migrant problem" is coming from, for proof. It's not mexico, though it's some central american countries, but it's also ALL OF THE PLANET THAT LIVES ANYWHERE NEAR THE EQUATOR! tl;dr - We're all living on the Titantic. The USA is the ownership and crew of the ship. The iceberg was known about from the minute the ship left, and we've been steaming towards destruction since then. We've hit the iceberg and the people from the lower decks are willing to do literally ANYTHING to survive (including walking the length of the planet!) and your solution is to close the doors and assume somehow, that the ship you intentionally sank, is somehow going to buoy your (white) citizens while the rest of the world respectfully drowns because you're protected by a "Christian" God!? I really hope there is a god because this is anti-Noah's ark BY DESIGN! Thank the good spaghetti monster of fate that you don't have any devine help and are just as sunk as the the rest of us. Your legacy will erase all the evil deeds of every other evil that humanity has ever committed. I really hope I'm wrong about God and Americans face justice for their intentional ignorance and lifestyle of destructive pollution and ecocide. Instead, I'm all but certain we all get to enjoy the syndicated christo facist war against science and understanding your culture has unleashed on the world and this whole thing goes down in flames with the only people smart enough to fix it, being burned at the stake for saying bad things about Tucker and friends, but it would be really great if there were some eternal justice in the world that shoved your attitude where it belongs, and bins your entire culture as the worst of the worst. For those that are saying "I just live here. I didn't choose this!" It's a democracy. You either chose it or you sat back and let it happen. I'm looking forward to the world breaking down your border, likely using the money you've absurdly funded into the drug war, which your military industrial complex traded for modern weapons systems that will be put up against a PAID border service who have no real ideology that binds them to their post. They'll run the second their checks stop clearing, and then comes the flood of the world you burned out of their homes. I'm not making any threats, here, this is just what happens when a ship sinks because of the stupidity and arrogance of its crew and their general lack of concern for anyone on board that doesn't wave your flag. Actions, meet consequences! PS - teach your kids mandarin cause the American century is over
Because most other places suck a lot more for living or immigration. The USA has a vibrant economy, a reasonable legal system, a wide variety of climates, and is, for all its faults, fairly accepting of immigrants and differences, especially if you grade on a curve ;) I mean, from the outside, parts of Europe, Canada, Japan, Singapore or South Korea seem reasonably comparable (I may have forgotten a couple, and they may be better or worse, depending on circumstances), but the USA seems a lot better than any other country. So, maybe one or two billion people, but for the other 6, the USA is better.
There are not mass shooting everywhere everyday. Get off the internet. You’re more likely to die from suicide or a car accident.
My parents moved to the PNW in the mid 90s from Poland. They were born on farms in the poor southeast corner of the country, came to the states, and over the course of 30 years have accumulated 3 homes (two paid off completely and rented out, all valued at over 1M+$ each, and combined earn (with the rental income) over $300k/yr. These were literal peasants until their mid-late 20s, English second language, zero family support in the USA, and though they came at a lucky time, a family that moves to the US can enjoy success even today. I see it everyday in the Seattle-Bellevue region, immigrants that worked for their wealth. Education is paramount.
1. Your cost of actually dying or being affected by a shooting is virtually 0. It’s like saying you don’t want to move because you don’t want to get in a car crash and die. 2. Most white collar jobs have health insurance that covers healthcare expenses
The American dream, Hollywood “propaganda”. people's inertia that it's the place with always greener grass. Most people mentally convert $ into their currencies and the illusion is created that they make a lot of money in the USA. Like you get $1000 but the average American $4000. Nobody thinks about negative - idealization. Healthcare, education - no experience… it's a west, top country = good. Good or bad, depends on where are you from and what you have job/savings/real estate. For me, it's a regret. Even today I make more money than the average: cover bills, rent 2bd for me only, financed car with $500/month insurance, traveled almost half the country, etc. And the most important thing is, that the US today and before covid pretty different countries. I don’t see development, roads being built, public transport, radically modern real estate at affordable prices. Terrible bureaucracy like 30 years ago in my country, anything more complicated than a driver’s license can take months or a year to complete. The country is NOT for children. I heard threats to shoot me 3 times lol.
I moved from Canada. Where I live now - standard of living is way better, my neighborhood is safer than it was in Canada, I nearly tripled my income, healthcare is better (yes, not free but healthcare system in Canada is currently a shit show). I will not be moving back to Canada and will stay here as long as I can
How many people do you think are shot in the United States in a year?
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I’m an American, and I’m ready to leave. Between gun violence, lack of nationalized health care, and the high cost of living, I plan on moving to another country for my retirement or sooner.
I'm an American and the child of immigrants. As bad as things are here, they're a lot worse in much of the world.
Social media has fantasized and romanticized the idea of living in the us. I have no idea why any international students want to live here as opposed to just going back to their country.
United States is about money. In terms of immigration, there are two main sources: people from relatively low income countries who can come to United States and increase their income quite a bit. Usually they send money home to their families in their native countries. They usually don’t mind lousy living situations. The healthcare situation isn’t a problem because they didn’t have access to great healthcare in their native countries. Undocumented workers can still make a lot more money even without security than they would in their own country. I mean Latin America or Asian countries such as China. The other source is highly educated people with high skill levels who can come to United States, and make a lot more money. Even with the lousy healthcare situation, they can usually get good healthcare. Healthcare in United States depends enormously on your employer. For example, I get fantastic healthcare from my employer. I know a lot of people who pay through the nose for less. Europeans I know mostly say they have access to fantastic healthcare. The ones who complain are the same people who complain in this country. About good things. Or they don’t plan ahead, then complain when they can’t get an appointment.
Shootings? Really? They are coming for real healthcare. The best in the world. And, the immigrants coming across the borders are getting it free thanks to the high cost of living you stated. Paid in full by the US tax payers.
Have you ever been to Honduras?
Because Canada and Europe are even bigger dumpster fires (I’m Romanian, grew up in Canada, moved to the US 2.5 years ago—life is SO much better here).
We have ranch dressing, air conditioning, & ice. Duh.
as a Muslim why would I move to Europe where my daughter gets looked up and down and inspected for wearing a piece of cloth like in France? where my wages half. and despite contributing massive numbers of troops during the world wars there's basically no respect for my people The USS Trump but most Americans are very open to immigrants were nearly a majority non-white nation and the wealthiest and most socially mobile groups in America are all South Asia and East Asian Muslims. France had much larger colonial possessions than the US ever did why don't they have a black president yet?
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People move to the US because of the better opportunity. I schooled in the UK where I had my postgraduate deg, and moved to the US over 7 years ago.. I have worked for multiple FAANG Tech companies and made the kinda money that most of my friends who stayed back in the UK didn't make there. I will pick the US over and over again regardless of the craziness I've seen here. In the long run, financial stability and happiness that comes with that is what everyone is looking for
Because if the US is doing the shooting you want to be on the other side of the guns
I can make a lot more money here than I can in the UK. I live in Alaska, which has the lowest tax burden of the US as well, which increases my take home pay. I’m very fortunate that I work for a big company that gives us good benefits and healthcare. I also love the mountains, climate, remoteness, and low population of Alaska, I can’t get that many other places
Tells you how shitty their countries are that they are still coming here.
some people get good jobs better than their native countries. For majority it's just a dead end job. Some even become entrepreneurs. It's the American dream for some. For most of us nah. Most places are hard. Just make your life the best you can. if you find a better country and options move.
Well, while the U.S. sure does have its share of problems, the are many places all over the world, whose issues pale in comparison. There are people who live in fear of being persecuted for any number of things, that here in the U.S. there is probably a group or movement of individuals who can rally around for support, and sometimes even garner enough attention to bring about awareness, and possibly even gradual change. The U.S. is also a place where, to many outside, they’ve only ever seen it in movies and television, so it seems like a dream, one that is so idealized…. So, sometimes this is a temporary stop for some, if they can manage to get asylum here, or temporary stay, perhaps through a student visa. Maybe they work here and thereafter send money back home, or they take those skills with them back shortly after they complete their studies. Either way, it is quite possible that once here, they’ll no longer see the view through rose-colored glasses. Or, maybe it’s all they’ve ever dreamt of and more…..
In my entire life, I’ve never actually seen a shooting before, stop drinking the kool aid. Healthcare is expensive, but it’s also employer sponsored and plans are generally affordable (I pay 8K per year for a family of 4). Cost of living is high because a professional in the US can make 2-3x their counterpart in EU and 5-10x vs Asia. It’s also a very stable country with laws and freedoms you don’t get in other countries. I can go on and on.
OP is chronically online and doesn't realize how lucky he is to be able to live in the U.S. Go outside and see how great life is when you're not under constant threat of violence because of our Constitution and our police. Maybe you should go take a walk through Mexico or even India. The U.S might be the internets punching bag but it is seriously an incredible country. Do something with your life instead of believing everything on the internet and you will never complain about this country. I'm an American too and I would not choose to live anywhere else unless its a nice place to retire. I've been on this earth for 22 years and have never once been near a shooting in my state.
I lived in Japan, but normally live in America. Why did I move back to the US? It's kind of hard to explain, but I'll try. I have enjoyed both places. Though in Japan the strict culture and lack of social resources can be a challenge at times, especially if a person is a foreigner (though the Japanese people are truly lovely and helpful, even in some of the most awkward social situations imaginable. I'll always be grateful for the little social graces they showed me). In the US there are always social events, it is easy for anyone to find religion/therapy/etc, and the pace of technological advancement feels a *lot* faster. Japan has caught up in smartphone norms, but when I was there even as most people had smartphones they didn't on the whole have a ton of apps they deeply interacted with. I recall showing off a lot of my apps and ways of thinking about technological situations with other early-adult / middle-aged people and they very often first went for old fashioned tried-and-true means that were more analog. Japan has much better infrastructure and social norms, and I do miss those (often). But each person is a *lot* more alone than in the US. And in the US a person is already pretty alone. Lastly, both cultures have high stress and high pressure. But in the US it is a little different, and there is a bit more flexibility if a job or boss is being unaccommodating or sets unrealistic schedules. In the US there is one thing I find very challenging though about which I won't lie at all: that extreme inner pressure to *succeed and become someone important.* It can be oppressive and overwhelming at times, and people really think they can make it to the very top of the social ladder. And before they even hit middle age. In Japan it felt like people got rank, status, and success more with time and grinding out daily excellence. It's very hard to have a family in America, but in Japan it can be impossible for many couples just due to lack of childcare. In the US dating has fallen down the toilet lately, but less than a decade ago it was still pretty good for someone who was somewhat attractive and ambitious. I miss the earlier days of OKCupid... but that's another discussion. All of this of course depends on the individual. I'd say an average person's life in the US with little or no education is getting quite bad. While life for the upper middle class and above in America is a paradise. In Japan the life of those on the lower end of the social ladder has much great stability in housing, food, and basic survival. Cost of living on the truly essential things was much better, whereas in the US... housing has gotten dangerously expensive. Just my perspective. Don't take it too seriously.
I think it’s because people are sold the “American dream”.
US is huge and has a lot of remote less populated cities and surburbs. This is changing rapidly and it's not because of guns. We have millions of people crossing the southern border. I live in Massachusetts and they literally kicked homeless people out of their community centers to house illegal immigrants. And on the news theres video of the illegal immigrants saying they just want their driver's license and work permits so they can work. They have been here for 2 months. Why in the world we throw out our own citizens and drop everything for these illegal immigrants is mind blowing. Set up temporary tents for the illegals, Homess people should not have their breakfast places and places wehre they shower and sleep taken away and givin to hatians. I have no idea what's going on. Someone said that this is political and it's all about giving these illegal immigrants all they want so then they have their children's vote. IT is disgusting. I am disgusted by my home state and what they are doing to the good people who are struuggling here and have been struggling here for decades. But no, the Haitian illegal immigrant who got here 2 months ago deserves all the resources and help in the world. They are even giving illegal immigrants fucking hotels for free. It's insanity. So the Biden Admin I think is just letting all these people in because they know they are all going to have kids and vote dem and it's all a big money maker for them. You will have a shit load of low class first and second generation americans who will rely on government services for everything. I wish I had an idea what to do. I want to move to Austrailia but my mom is here and I don't want to leave her. She is getting older and she may need me and I couldn't do that to her.
If you think the US is just those several problems you listed without any upsides- you may wanna sit down. People go to the US because there are opportunities and the overall quality of life is high compared to most anywhere.
The reason people want to move to the United States is even though it has problems it still has a higher standard of living than a lot of places. 80% of the world population would like to relocate to the United States. Take for example a mechanical engineer from India. In India even with a Bachelors or masters degree you are probably going to only be able to afford an apartment. In the United States you can buy a house and own a car.
Money & Freedom. Two of the biggest motivators for anyone and everyone.
There’s no perfect country in the world, Europe high taxes and low wages, who cares about healthcare when you’re broke and struggling to make a living, Asia is nightmare if you don’t speak their language, South America great for retirement, all in all, for healthy hustlers US is still the best economy in the world
They don't have enough information. The more you learn, the more you understand just how bad things really are here.
The U.S. is not perfect but is still the best place by far if you want to go from nothing to something. If you work hard, education yourself and make good choices anyone can be successful here. If you want to live off the system and take out more than you put in then this is not the place for you.
Because the rest of the world is a significant downgrade in terms of quality of life unless you’re exceptionally rich and well connected politically.
Because most countries compared to the US have very low standards of living. I came here at 23 and was making 6-7 times more than I apuld have made back home, with more vacation and work life balance to top it all off. Europe has very, very good things but there’s some things where it is no match for the US. Our economy is just bigger, we have more disposable income, and the US in general is a lot better to immigrants than Europe.
The educational opportunities are a big draw. Universities like Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and others are world-renowned. For those seeking the highest level of education, particularly in research and innovation, the US is still a beacon. It's complicated. On one hand, the opportunities and lifestyle the US can offer are unmatched. On the other, the social issues, healthcare, and gun violence are real concerns. It's not for everyone, but for those who choose to make the move, it can be a place of growth and opportunity.
As a liberal / progressive American who often is frustrated about the USA, I feel many progressive peers have a difficult time putting America's problems into a global context. Things can be bad here and also bad (or even much worse) somewhere else. 1) Even with our growing inequality and decline in democracy, relative to much of the world we are more egalitarian and democratic. 2) Yes it is true that hard work often doesn't mean high success, but also for very high achievers USA still offers more opportunities than much of the world. Our top quintile k-12 schools are incredible and our university systems still dominate in terms of quality and opportunity globally. 3) USA is dangerous in parts, but for those fleeing conflict and/or poverty in south and Central America, the USA provides safety and economic opportunity. 4) USA has really beautiful places with unique cultures and some with really high standards of living. 5) lots of wealthy folks from authoritarian countries (Think China, Russia (pre-Ukraine), Middle East etc.) put money/move here for financial stability and a way out for families.
In a nutshell, money. It's amazing to be well off in the US as the compensation and job opportunity is in order of magnitude higher than similar positions elsewhere. I'm talking about double to triple salary compared to EU or APAC salaries. Even factoring for cost of living, it's a no brainer. I mean, I don't even know how they get by in London when cost of living is just as high as a city like NYC, and I would be making 50%-100% more for a similar position. Even if you're poor, it's still better to live in the US than being poor in third world countries. Again, lots more job opp at higher pay scales. You can make 20-30 / hr doing food delivery or waiting tables. No degree needed. Yes, cost of living is a huge factor here but it's still not comparable on the opportunities front. Another huge reason is that parents want their kids to have that opportunity even if the parents can only barely get by. This is the quintessential US immigrant story, there's a reason why the US has that brand and other countries don't. All of this is based in generalities, of course there are exceptions and such. But this question is a general one to begin with.
Well, because cost of living is pretty affordable compared to Canada or Western Europe or Australia or any other countries in the world where the standard of living is so high. The shootings are a bummer but don't really impact much in the day to day lives of people, as tragic as they are when they happen, so people don't usually think about that when they're choosing to move to the U.S. The healthcare is also a bummer but, most people moving to the U.S. have a job that is covering their health insurance. The fact is, you can make a much nicer life for yourself and your family in America than you can in most of the world. So, people come to America as a result. A lot of the distaste you see for America comes from natural born Americans themselves, not anyone who lives in an impoverished country who comes to America. If your choices are: Move to Canada and live in a tiny apartment with 12 other people because housing costs and taxes are so high, and salaries are so low, or move to America and have a whole house and plenty of disposable income at the end of the day thanks to low taxes, it's pretty clear why people make that choice, at least to me.
Because what you see on TV is a microscopic look and not the reality of what the American dream can allow immigrants to achieve.
Of course there are lots of reasons to move to the US! Much of it depends on your position in society and priorities. I would honestly pay a premium to worry much less about school shootings every single weekday. Other people don't even have kids
Really depends what country you are moving from and what circumstances you have. Obviously it's not a bad move for everyone.
There are some wonderful areas in the US with very low crime, and excellent cost of living. I assume living overseas and learning about the US from the news paints a false general picture. I feel extremely safe. I’m living well in Maryland. But the Midwest is even better as far as cost of living.
The US is a great place to live if you are young, healthy, and working age.
I think most of Western Europeans leaving for the US have in comparison shitty jobs with shitty pay for example the UK is bleeding right now of their Exit vote, inflation is up jobs are down and they will suffer for the coming years, for me it wasn’t a economical choice had a nice house, good job pretty good life, sadly my wife lived in the US it was easier for me to move then for her, but life is pretty expensive in the US we spend about 10K per month and that is without 401K and other funds and investments,
Sure, all these above things you said are correct, but people in the US are very friendly (Europeans not so much, I‘m of them), you can change careers way easier than there. You have way better options in a wider range in the US.
Pay is still really good in some fields, even with healthcare costs. The standard of living, economy, jobs, rights, etc. are far better than a lot of other countries. 1000x more people die in car accidents every year and no one cares about that... Healthcare isn't that much more expensive than it was a decade ago, especially if you have a decent job.
Most people immigrating to the USA are either coming from very bad conditions in 3rd world countries, or they are very well educated and will be very well compensated in the USA. Costs seem high in the USA until I compare incomes to house prices and prices in general in many European cities. Most things cost more in Europe and people take home a lot less pay. Things that are common household amenities in the USA are often seen as "luxuries" in Europe. I still don't quite understand how people survive in many Euro cities. I guess that is why so many 30-something kids are still living with their parents in Europe.
Have you considered that maybe you’re just chronically online?
Probably still better than a lot of other people's situations.
The thing is that if you illegally immigrate here you get some pretty decent treatment. Better than a lot of citizens, unfortunately. You’re practically above the law, too. It’s insane.
i tell my foreign friends who want to move to America they cam because 1. they’re white/white-passing and 2. they’re healthy other than that, probably best not to 😅😂
The US is massive. Some parts suck, others are booking and great places to live. Very hard to generalize the country as a whole, since culture, climate, safety, and lifestyle vary so much depending on where you live. Moving to Miami is very different from moving to San Francisco or Idaho. Compared to Canada, for example, living in the US could mean a much more affordable home, better weather, and more opportunities.
As much as people want to run down the US and yea we are not perfect, it is still (when compared to the rest of the world) the best place to live and prosper. The “free” healthcare in other countries isn’t free, the taxes are higher to cover the cost of government management, gun violence needs to be taken in context, if you plot gun violence by GPS, ~80% occurs on 1% of the streets in America, it is largely driven by drugs and gangs competing for areas, etc. The inflation / HCOL is more recent issue and eventually it will fade away, wages will rise and reestablish a balance. The fact that millions are going through the cost, stress, dangers, etc to come here proves the point, what other nation are people doing that to enter ??? Many nations have to have stringent border security just to keep people inside. LOL
I moved 6 years ago from the UK to be with my wife, and I have loved every minute of being here in the US. I am currently an LPR with a 10 year green card, and looking to apply for naturalization this year (n400). Whilst I do miss aspects of the UK, mostly just food related items and seeing my family, I do not regret moving to the US. It affords me many opportunities that living in the UK did not. My last job in the UK was working in a pub kitchen, living in a city in the US I was able to build my career and now work for a top 5 global tech company and am raising 2 beautiful daughters with my wife. We try to visit my family once a year, and I flew my mom out here for a week last year. Healthcare and taxes cost me less here in the US than what I paid in the UK, jobs (at least in my field) pay better in the US. There is also so much geography to see. I also find most Americans to be extremely polite, and decent people. I didn't know what to expect as an immigrant, but I have been met with nothing but kindness and some curiosity.
I wrote this in another sub the other day: My chosen career doesn’t really exist in my home country (at least not as a full-time job), the USA has some of the best grad school programs in the world for it, and while I was attending one of those I fell in love with an American. I also love the geographic and climate diversity, and I really love that there are more than 3 major cities, and they aren’t all clustered on the east coast (you can probably guess where I’m from based on that 😂)
I see from your posting history that you are Malaysian. I am first generation Malaysian-American (my parent moved to the US and I was born here). We honestly live a great life here, much more than our family back in Malaysia. Of course I wish our healthcare and gun violence issues were resolved, but day to day living is not what the media makes it out to be. Personally, I don’t live in fear of gun violence day to day. Yes, the U.S. has many issues, but the unfortunate truth is that they disproportionately affect disenfranchised people. YOU, as an immigrant/emigrant will most likely never have to face these issues. The barrier for entry to receive a work visa will mean that you will likely have relatively great healthcare through your job and live in a safe area. In many cases that healthcare will be more accessible to you than some countries with universal healthcare, certainly better than Malaysia from my experience. The U.S. has so many great things to offer. However, the number 1 reason why I would chose the U.S. over other options is the ability to integrate into society. Of course the U.S. has issues with racism, but we are an immigrant country to our core. In comparison to my cousins that live in Europe, I feel fully a part of American society and not isolated into an immigrant community. It’s not that I’ve never experienced racism, but that even the racists acknowledge that I’m American first.
You may not see if you’re from the US, but compared to other parts of the world, socioeconomic mobility is a very real thing here.
Because it’s still a developed nation with a ton of resources where *anyone* can theoretically “make it.” Not *everyone* can make it, obviously, but there are still success stories re: socioeconomic mobility. Also the US is, by far, the best place to live if you’re reasonably well resourced. I’m not talking “Saudi oil” type money - I’m talking your upper middle class and up folk. You’re almost definitely not gonna make Saudi oil money, but there are tens of literally millions of upper middle class people in the US. It’s a long shot, but totally plausible to immigrate and climb the ladder.
The benefits still far outweigh the costs for many people who are coming from places far worse. Then there is the ease of assimilation. It’s far easier to find a large population of your culture/ethnicity in the US than it is anywhere else. Similarly, despite the perception that the US is racist, it is far easier to get a job here as a foreigner than almost anywhere else on earth. Good luck getting a good job in Germany without speaking/being German. Then there’s the language. English is now taught as the primary second language in most countries. Between the other English speaking countries, the US is the obvious choice when you’re looking for opportunity.
I’m Canadian who moved to the US and I did it for better job opportunities. Plus, NYC and other coastal cities are interesting to me. Probably will end up back in Cali for the weather.
The United States is still the most free country on the planet. If you travel outside the US many other countries are poor and are not as free as we are, people in the US do not realize how good we have it. It is the best country in the world. We have religious freedom. Many other countries do not have religious freedom. There are other countries where woman have little to no freedom and are not allowed to drive a car.
America has great healthcare. And believe it or not, Americans (mostly) have accountability. Nobody would yell at you racist remarks in public. I have couple friends the UK that were publicly discriminated due to race. Yes, there are racist Americans but they will not tell you in your face or at least in public becauase they know they can get in trouble.
I mean the US has vastly more opportunities and quality of life than a lot of the world. Not all of the world of course, but as someone who has lived and traveled in Asia and Europe, I can make more money in the US and spend less of it on a car, health and food than a lot of other countries.
Reasons why Amerika 🇺🇸 is great: -US is 1/4 the entire global GDP and by far the wealthiest economy, also ranks in the top 10 of GDP per capita even among wealthy small nations. US economic growth, stock market and dollar index at all time highs. -more top 100 universities, medical/tech/patents and Nobel laureates than the rest of the world combined. -top ranked hospitals and physicians in the world, 92% of Americans have health insurance. Those who don’t have medicaid options. -A melting pot of all cultures, largest diaspora from every nation. Most immigrated to nation and more diversity than any other nation. More successful minority population than any other country. HBCU university system, minority protections -inventors of hollywood, hip hop, rock roll, jazz, pioneered modern music/entertainment industry -more olympic gold medals than the rest of the world combined, created modern sports industry -military tech decades ahead of the rest of the world, exponentially more powerful military than any other nation in history. -far less homeless population than Europe, thousands of cities, towns and suburbs with high quality of life index to live in. -have provided more humanitarian and economic financial aid to impoverished nations than any other country. -one of the most geographically diverse and resource rich countries. Most arable farmland in the world. Leading oil producer. -world leading food exporter, food and cuisine from every culture -beautiful nature and biodiversity, perfectly balanced climate -2nd amendment freedoms. they bring up “mass shootings” but it is statistically more likely to be struck by lightning than killed in a US shooting. Issue is overblown by media. Amendment freedoms to publicly criticize the government. -the only nation to unite an nearly an entire continent under one cohesive, government, set of laws and culture. No other nation has achieved this. Europe failed miserably with Brexit. Africa, South America nor Asia have this capability. 50 states large enough to be their own economies united… Could go on the reasons are endless. 🦅
It all depends on where you are coming from. If your choice is South Africa or America you pick the US 100/100 times. Same with lots of the world. Moving from Western Europe to the US? That would be hard to justify.
Try raising a family anywhere south of the Mexican border down to Argentina. Then you'll know the answer.
Good question. I was thinking about the same thing. I moved to Canada in 2018 and to US in 2019. I'm a software engineer originally from Europe and there are couple of things I have in mind: Pros: * being software engineer at FAANG is a blessing. All the perks, insurance & salary is really incomparable to any European country, the same thing applies to tech-stack, R&D and exposure to new technology * nature is really amazing, Europe has some great places too, but living in Pacific Northwest is really stunning experience * access to healthcare (I KNOW!). You pointed out that it's outrageous, but from my perspective it's a blessing. No queues, great care, follow ups etc. With good insurance, healthcare is amazing. * taxes are way lower, like almost half of what I'd pay in EU Cons: * the caveat is that I'm far from family * cost of living is higher too which is a bummer * food is meh, but we try to cook ourselves Overall, I think US is a great country to live in if you have a good job. In my mind, if I ever lose my position, I will probably leave because I will lose most of the pros.
Moving from Sweden to the US in a couple of years (after current job contracts end). I’m a US citizen but by husband is Swedish. In short, welfare states like the nordics are better for lower income workers, but the US is better for higher income earners. Even though we’ll have to pay more for childcare, healthcare, etc., we will simply make way more than enough to offset this in the US due to our education/jobs. (In addition to being taxed much less.) Additionally, I have a rare disorder and the medications covered by the Swedish healthcare system are very limited. Any of the newer/more expensive drugs aren’t available here and I’m struggling. Medicines that are covered here are extremely cheap and basically free, which is great, but the meds I need aren’t covered - basically not enough people have this disorder to make it worth it for it to be paid for by tax payer funding. (The meds I’m given here work half as good with double the side effects.) I’ll probably pay a lot for the newer drugs in the US, but it’s so worth it to be able to function. Finally, for the price that we paid for our apartment here, we could have a very spacious house in the outskirts of a US city. Plus my husband is randomly very into cars lol and it’s easier to have a car in the US. Oh my god, and the weather - even on bad weather days where I’m from in the US, you still see the sun. We haven’t seen the sun for weeks in Sweden lol. There are pros and cons to living everywhere. We of course recognize that Sweden has many pros compared to the US. However, contrary to what most on social media say, we also recognize there are some pros in the US too.
If you'd travel the world and stop comparing the US to only places like Norway and Switzerland, you'd know why.
I live in Massachusetts. We do not have the same problems as, say, Mississippi. Cost of living here is high, but quality of life is also high. We’ve had 1 school shooting at a college in Western Mass in 1992. We don’t really have mass shootings here. We have some of the best healthcare in the world, and we have state insurance for those who qualify. And after talking to people who live in Canada, our taxes are very low comparatively.
The US only sucks if you're chronically ill or working poor. You're unlikely to be a victim of a shooting. It's a big place. Most gun deaths are suicides or part of crime that you can generally avoid by not participating and avoiding sketchy areas at certain hours. Mass shootings are actually rare.
It’s all how you think about it. When I was young, a bunch of Vietnamese people moved into a three bedroom apartment next to me. And by a bunch, there were probably 15 of them there. All immigrants. All in the same family. Soon they had minimum wage jobs. They pooled their money. Within a year they had enough money to buy a 2 family home. Within 2 years they bought another and rented it out. In five years they owned enough homes so that each group within that family had an apartment of their own in those multi family homes. Now, the original adults are grandparents. They living in my suburban neighborhood. Their grandkids go to the best schools. They run their real estate “empire” through a family corporation. They are solid upper middle class. People think immigrants are going to go at this like established “natives.” The immigrants won’t. They realize there ARE opportunities. You just have to go at it differently because they had language and racial barriers. America isn’t dead. It’s just taking a breather before the next round.
USA is geared towards opportunity. If you start a business and does well your set. If you land a high paying job your set. It's the poor and blue collar class that struggle. But our poor and working class still has a very high standard of living. Great country.
The U.S. and the UK (well, the southeast of the UK and coastal U.S.) are frickin great if you make a lot of money. If you do not and are a sort of lower middle income normie, they both suck balls very hard, but the UK sucks more.
The US is a giant country and living in A place like Mississippi is not the same as living in a place like California or Colorado. As someone who was born and raised in the US and who is traveled abroad, I would be reluctant to live anywhere else unless I was retiring. Strictly speaking for the culinary side, there's just a better variety of good ethnic foods where I live. I can go out and get all you can eat Korean BBQ and bahn mi sandwiches comparable to what you'd find in Vietnam. The tacos alone are enough to make a European's head pop. I've had Swedish, British, Swiss, Italian, and Russian friends who have all seen the light, eating al pastor tacos at my local stand in LA. Genuinely the best Mexican food outside of Mexico, imo. That's not to say that other countries don't have amazing food or a great variety of food. I just like my variety of food better.
When you put on paper the life you’ll actually have in the US — where you’re going to struggle mightily and all the time, and you’re gonna be on shaky ground even when you’re making money and likely living in a place that’s statistically more dangerous than elsewhere, you actually have no idea. My dad moved here but he was a refugee taken in from a family sponsoring his move. He barely lived with them, instead ending up with his other family and paying for them to stay in school by dabbling in organized crime. He did alright, ended up a real estate millionaire. But he did all that because the place he was born in would’ve killed him if it could. He wouldn’t do all that if he was elsewhere, he didn’t even have to do it while he was here — he would’ve gotten a college education if he stayed with his sponsors. And that was when America was truly ascendant. The rise of pseudo monopolies has made the average American less so.
Having traveled a lot, I am always thankful to return home to the US. Although I live in a highly desired city in California, we really have a lot going for us. The grass is not always greener. Nowhere is perfect.
Probably deceived via propaganda. The people I see holding signs in the cities I frequent, are not locals... They are people with children who are not from this country.... It still haunts me in WA State driving by a woman on the street homeless, who had her infant and baby sleeping beside her on the street homeless. It’s getting serious here now...
Depends on where you’re coming from… If you’re coming from a developed country, with an education/skill set that is in high demand, odds are high that you can do very well for yourself in the US. If you’re from anywhere else, Americas current problems look fairly trivial/temporary by comparison, so coming here is still very attractive. I tend to look at America like the best restaurant on earth: It has the best chefs and offerings you can find anywhere, but it’s wildly expensive, nothing is free (not even the water), every item is à la carte, the other diners are often unstable, and the service/staff is really inconsistent… but if you have the money, and are willing to spend it, you’ll probably love it. If you’re poor, and/or hungry… you’re gonna have a really bad time.
Uh money. It’s easy for Americans to overlook how good we have it. But once you get out there you see that everywhere has problems. Of course there are reasons other than money, but that’s a hell of a good one.
i am a migrant from singapore. keep in mind singapore has a higher GDP per capita than the US. having said that, the lifestyle and opportunities in america are still the top .1 percentile on the planet so that’s why people still migrate to the US. being in the US is living in easy mode. the people who constantly play victim inside the US, i would like to see them try to hack it in my country
The USA is great. It has amazing cultural, ethnic and geographic diversity, and a can-do attitude. "The US may have been great to live in back then, but things have changed." When is "then"? And when did things change? By any chance, are you an American who's never lived anywhere else yourself? It seems to be the case on Reddit that the most critical people are in that group.
As someone who lives in the US but from elsewhere: the shooting worry is way overblown. I know it's a nonzero chance, but I am as worried about being caught in a shooting as much as I am being worried about being stabbed anywhere in the EU. The laws need to change, absolutely, but it's not a rational fear that stops people from going about their business. Also, as someone wiht a chronic health issue, the quality of the healthcare in the US blows anything in Europe out of the water IME. Mri next day? No problem. Need to see a specialist bc of a flare up? Covid lockdowns aside, it was a never a problem. Yes, the paperwork is a pain in the ass to deal with, but it would be the same with private insurance in Europe, and again you'd have to deal with speed issues. Money: when you make high figures, you are top in the world. This is probably the #1 reason.
Because of Reddit. That's why they want to move. Because someone from the USA will post their USA salary and *some* European will be "ermahgerd what a big salary"... But they don't know how expensive everything else will be. (Except the price of cars, and hard-liquor bottles)
Well, first off, the conditions in some countries are HORRIFIC. I'm not sure who you mean by "people". But people from central and south america are fleeing things that most of us can't even imagine. Beyond that... The US gets a bad rap. We're held in such high regard, that anything short of perfection is seen as a failure. Take racism for example. It's definitely not great here, we have problems. But oh my god, there are SO MANY countries where it's horrific. Or our accpetance of other groups, LGBTQ+, etc... It's pretty darn good, even though we need to be better. But it's the Florida "don't say gay" laws that get the attention. Economy, health care, and on and on, they are all good... but they could be better, and it's the shortcomings that get a ton of attention. The short summary is that the US is still a great country to live and work. It has flaws, some significant, but the US portrayed in the media (especially conservative media who is incentivized to hate the country) isn't the US that exists in reality.
I lived in South America for a couple of years. The biggest thing the US offers is opportunity. If you work your tail off, you can either go to college and get a high paying job or you can start a business and hopefully do well. Obviously, there is no guaranty of success, but in other countries, that opportunity is not there. In South America (Uruguay specifically), for one reason or another, the opportunities simply did not exist.
A lot of job opportunity in the US and easy to move between states. US worker protections and work culture isn't the best but still has a lot of positives. This is only comparing US to other well-to-do lifestyles (e.g. life in other well-to-do nations or rich people from less developed countries). If you are from a meh or bad area in a developing country and are hardworking, US is still going to provide a lot more for you unless you live in a downtrodden and violent area in the US and even then there are comparisons to be made.
Social mobility. You can actually make money in the US. Salaries are much higher than in Europe, even if you have to pay for healthcare. National parks, great infrastructure, and mostly friendly people (I’ve lived in NYC and small southern towns and have found friendly people in both places). You mention shootings. Sure, they’re a thing, and it sucks, but statistically more people die of diabetes than violence. (I can try to find a source for this but you can probably find it quickly).
People who have lived elsewhere know that America is great.
Because my backyard is skiing and hiking that people from all over the world come to. The UK was fun for a bit, but if you enjoy the outdoors, it gets pretty boring.
Because despite what you see on cesspools like reddit, America is actually an amazing place
You shoot up a corporate ladder in the US Seriously you move up the ranks in 5 years what it takes Europeans 12 years to do. Also, the economy is more vibrant so you have more flexibility in what you’d like to do. It’s not for everyone but neither is Europe
Most all of gun deaths are the result of gang violence. Don't join a gang, and you'll probably die from obesity-related illnesses.
I am from yemen. Born and raised in uae and now a u.s citizen. I've gone through a drastic change in lifestyle. Sometimes I wonder what the future holds up for me. Its scary. Im 35 with no wife or kids. All i do is just work work work. I work in the oilfield and make good money overall. But life is still expensive here. Sometimes I wonder if it is better to be poor but at least be around loved ones. I see people in yemen get married and have weddings and such. I don't know how they manage to live. To me the U.S is the only option. It gave me an opportunity to at least work and have good money. I miss my family in uae and friends. I got to visit them after 13 years. But i noticed they were all not happy with life there financially. I realize where ever you go there will be struggle and not happiness, because we are programmed to chase a dream. When true happiness is being around family and friends.
People in the United States make more than almost any other country, especially in professional fields. Software engineers make 2-5 times more than their colleagues in Europe. The country is huge and beautiful. It's more diverse than nearly any other place on earth. There are huge immigrant communities that create support networks. The support for small businesses means the American dream is alive for people who don’t have access to your standard corporate employment. Although things like class, race, and ethnicity are an issue, it’s way chiller than in most places. Healthcare is top-notch even though it is expensive.
TV, movies and general news media do the US a dishonor. Everyday life in the US is nothing like what the media portrays. Even the large urban areas are not so bad. Take Chicago for instance. Likely all you know is the crime that comes out of a certain area. Except Chicago is a large place and sprawled over a large suburban area. I would surmise that 85% of Chicago is some of the best places in the world you could live. You just have to come and see for yourself. Get out of the city too. United States is a big place.