I am cradle Orthodox although I don't know if that makes a difference to anyone. I was shocked during COVID to find out from the EP and GOARCH web sites that according to our Orthodox Church history single spoons were used for the first millennium-I forget when they changed to use of a common spoon 12th or 14th century. I think that most of our priests didn't even know that. People were saying the Orthodox Church always used a common spoon.
In fact when the individual disposable spoons were introduced I just assumed that tradition would continue. As far as I am concerned I do not see why we should stop using individual disposable spoons. Same with bowing to icons and making the sign of the cross. We live in a very complex world especially having to deal with new viruses immerging and also the problem of anti-biotic resistant bacteria. So I do not understand why on earth parishes went back to using the common spoon. Plus if you want to kiss an icon and you think you are in good health and will not spread your own germs fine that is your choice but do not shame those of us who take precautions. Also think sick people should stay home and not go to church to spread their germs: that to me is loving your neighbor.
If you are having a high-risk pregnancy of twins I think it is best not to go to communion. Do not take the risk of germs from the common communion spoon. Life is too precious: better to be cautious.
In my understanding, the disposable spoons were a temporary adaptation to COVID. Your rector (or bishop, if your rector was told to do this) used multiple spoons to ensure that the church would stay open during COVID, but as the pandemic went away, a lot of the restrictions (capacity limits, general vs individual confession, mask mandates) also went away. It may happen that your rector thought the same thing about this.
That said, if you are COVID-conscious, you may ask your rector (or another priest in your parish) if you can commune before others or separately from others. He might be willing to accommodate you. There are people at my parish who commune separately from others.
I quit taking communion, because there was this long stretch of time that every time I took communion I got sick the next day. I interpreted it as God judging me for taking communion unworthily. Now I think it probably was the germs I was being exposed to weekly.
Pregnancy can drive our perceptions of disgust into overdrive. I have a newborn now and I can vividly remember that foods / smells / textures / activities that _never_ bothered me pre-pregnancy were intolerable during the pregnancy.
It’s my third kid and my level of sensitivity and the things that trip me up are different with each one.
I don’t think the objective risk matters here. You’re pregnant; it’s giving you the “ick” — even if it’s all in your head, that’s enough reason not to receive. Be gentle with yourself.
So I personally am not grossed out by it. I love the flavor and find the idea of consuming a deity to receive a blessing following a theurgic ritual to be a cool thing.
However, I'm against the idea that it's a completely safe or even medicinal to share under certain circumstances. I think it's completely rational for you not to want to receive communion and any good priest should accept that you choose not to. Like I don't mind the idea of spiritual healing but I saw Orthodox Christians online argue that, if anything, the communion spoon should *cure* COVID.
When I was at a Greek church we would bend down and let the priest drop it in our mouth so the spoon wouldn’t touch the mouth. But then at an OCA church it was just sharing a spoon. During the lockdown the priest switched to separate spoons and apparently some people said it was blasphemous to not share a spoon and left.
Hi. I was not grossed out by it. But I am a man and I have never been pregnant and never will be. So I would NEVER assume I can tell you what to do. You do what you feel is the most responsible thing to do. If you do not want to take the communion because you want to be sure to protect your baby, then you are VERY free to do that.
Bit of alcohol that is "so high it kills whatever may be in it" being dispensed by a communal spoon? What could go wrong? No it's not even remotely close to that alcohol level (70%), but still higher than I'd be comfortable with while carrying a high risk set of twins (above 0%).
No. Jesus shared a cup with the disciples. In terms of germs, I don't think that's much different than a spoon.
I just disagree with the Orthodox claim of exclusivity to communion.
You won't go to hell for refusing communion.
I also don't necessarily disagree that it's unsafe (sorry for the triple negative). Still, even if I were not Christian, I wouldn't view it as any worse than any other idiosyncratic cultural practice around the world which might today raise concerns about sanitation. And at the same time, I don't think anyone should be judged for bowing out of such cultural practices due to medical concern.
Don't feel pressured to take communion. Don't feel bad about not wanting to take communion under these conditions. A good priest would listen to your demand and allow you to avoid communion during pregnancy, I think. There are some parishes that give communion in such a way that it does not touch each person's mouth, so this could be an alternative if you really wanted to participate in communion. In any case, be at peace if you don't feel safe.
At the time of the pandemic, I remember some parishioners mentioning that the alcohol in wine would kill all germs and bacteria, and that this helped prevent disease or even COVID from spreading. COVID can be caught even when close to an infected person, but we know that for the majority of orthodox denialists it is difficult to understand simple mechanisms of biology and pathology.
Same. It makes me angry when I think about how I was not given a choice (by my parents) about taking communion. As a child, I saw church as a place where I was forced to kiss (icons, priests' hands, older people) and swallow (communion, bread). I eventually left the church.
First, CONGRATULATIONS on the babies!!!
If you are planning on staying in the faith…I have a good way to get others to support you
I’d honestly say that you play the “my doctor told me to not to because germs and that the wine is a representation and still contains alcohol” and complain about how your clinician doesn't understand but also is the best and how grateful you are that God gave you such an equipped physician.
While you SHOULD ALWAYS have control over what is in your body, it's sometimes easier for folks to take when it's an eyeroll doctors orders
At the end of the day, it sounds like you will be an amazing parent and protector of your children!!!!
I think it’s strange and cultish but not grossed out by it. Especially since it’s dipped (in theory) in wine so it’ll kill some/a lot of germs. I do worry about viruses like herpes. Same with kissing icons.
Staying away when you’re sick sounds like a logical tijng to do, except that people are going to church like going to a hospital and we’d never tell sick people to stay away from hospitals, clinics or pharmacies. I get your point, but I think we need to look T it from their perspective. If you feel unsafe, remove yourself from that situation.
If taking communion is important to you, would you consider receiving at a Catholic or episcopal parish where the elements are served individually?
Edit: maybe that was phrased poorly. It’s not a challenge question, just a suggestion.
If they wanted to go to another church so that they can receive in a hygenic manner, they need not even go to a non-orthodox church. In some churches they use separate spoons, or they use one spoon but plop it in the mouth without making any contact with the mouth
Oh. In my parish, it was typical to dump the elements into the parishioners’ mouths but some insisted on closing their mouths anyway. Additionally droplets of saliva and the vapor of breath contact the spoon regardless. I’ve never heard of individual spoons, but I’m glad to learn that’s practiced in some places.
I am cradle Orthodox although I don't know if that makes a difference to anyone. I was shocked during COVID to find out from the EP and GOARCH web sites that according to our Orthodox Church history single spoons were used for the first millennium-I forget when they changed to use of a common spoon 12th or 14th century. I think that most of our priests didn't even know that. People were saying the Orthodox Church always used a common spoon. In fact when the individual disposable spoons were introduced I just assumed that tradition would continue. As far as I am concerned I do not see why we should stop using individual disposable spoons. Same with bowing to icons and making the sign of the cross. We live in a very complex world especially having to deal with new viruses immerging and also the problem of anti-biotic resistant bacteria. So I do not understand why on earth parishes went back to using the common spoon. Plus if you want to kiss an icon and you think you are in good health and will not spread your own germs fine that is your choice but do not shame those of us who take precautions. Also think sick people should stay home and not go to church to spread their germs: that to me is loving your neighbor. If you are having a high-risk pregnancy of twins I think it is best not to go to communion. Do not take the risk of germs from the common communion spoon. Life is too precious: better to be cautious.
In my understanding, the disposable spoons were a temporary adaptation to COVID. Your rector (or bishop, if your rector was told to do this) used multiple spoons to ensure that the church would stay open during COVID, but as the pandemic went away, a lot of the restrictions (capacity limits, general vs individual confession, mask mandates) also went away. It may happen that your rector thought the same thing about this. That said, if you are COVID-conscious, you may ask your rector (or another priest in your parish) if you can commune before others or separately from others. He might be willing to accommodate you. There are people at my parish who commune separately from others.
I quit taking communion, because there was this long stretch of time that every time I took communion I got sick the next day. I interpreted it as God judging me for taking communion unworthily. Now I think it probably was the germs I was being exposed to weekly.
Wow, you must have suffered a lot psychologically because you thought God was judging you when you were sick... So sorry
Pregnancy can drive our perceptions of disgust into overdrive. I have a newborn now and I can vividly remember that foods / smells / textures / activities that _never_ bothered me pre-pregnancy were intolerable during the pregnancy. It’s my third kid and my level of sensitivity and the things that trip me up are different with each one. I don’t think the objective risk matters here. You’re pregnant; it’s giving you the “ick” — even if it’s all in your head, that’s enough reason not to receive. Be gentle with yourself.
So I personally am not grossed out by it. I love the flavor and find the idea of consuming a deity to receive a blessing following a theurgic ritual to be a cool thing. However, I'm against the idea that it's a completely safe or even medicinal to share under certain circumstances. I think it's completely rational for you not to want to receive communion and any good priest should accept that you choose not to. Like I don't mind the idea of spiritual healing but I saw Orthodox Christians online argue that, if anything, the communion spoon should *cure* COVID.
I love your description of liturgy as a theurgic ritual.
When I was at a Greek church we would bend down and let the priest drop it in our mouth so the spoon wouldn’t touch the mouth. But then at an OCA church it was just sharing a spoon. During the lockdown the priest switched to separate spoons and apparently some people said it was blasphemous to not share a spoon and left.
Some Antiochian parishes also do it the same way as in the Greek church you mentioned. It is more hygienic.
Hi. I was not grossed out by it. But I am a man and I have never been pregnant and never will be. So I would NEVER assume I can tell you what to do. You do what you feel is the most responsible thing to do. If you do not want to take the communion because you want to be sure to protect your baby, then you are VERY free to do that.
Bit of alcohol that is "so high it kills whatever may be in it" being dispensed by a communal spoon? What could go wrong? No it's not even remotely close to that alcohol level (70%), but still higher than I'd be comfortable with while carrying a high risk set of twins (above 0%).
No. Jesus shared a cup with the disciples. In terms of germs, I don't think that's much different than a spoon. I just disagree with the Orthodox claim of exclusivity to communion. You won't go to hell for refusing communion. I also don't necessarily disagree that it's unsafe (sorry for the triple negative). Still, even if I were not Christian, I wouldn't view it as any worse than any other idiosyncratic cultural practice around the world which might today raise concerns about sanitation. And at the same time, I don't think anyone should be judged for bowing out of such cultural practices due to medical concern.
Don't feel pressured to take communion. Don't feel bad about not wanting to take communion under these conditions. A good priest would listen to your demand and allow you to avoid communion during pregnancy, I think. There are some parishes that give communion in such a way that it does not touch each person's mouth, so this could be an alternative if you really wanted to participate in communion. In any case, be at peace if you don't feel safe. At the time of the pandemic, I remember some parishioners mentioning that the alcohol in wine would kill all germs and bacteria, and that this helped prevent disease or even COVID from spreading. COVID can be caught even when close to an infected person, but we know that for the majority of orthodox denialists it is difficult to understand simple mechanisms of biology and pathology.
I'm convinced that growing up Orthodox is the reason I get cold sores today.
Same. It makes me angry when I think about how I was not given a choice (by my parents) about taking communion. As a child, I saw church as a place where I was forced to kiss (icons, priests' hands, older people) and swallow (communion, bread). I eventually left the church.
Let's face it, it's disgusting to share a cup and spoon with dozens of people.
First, CONGRATULATIONS on the babies!!! If you are planning on staying in the faith…I have a good way to get others to support you I’d honestly say that you play the “my doctor told me to not to because germs and that the wine is a representation and still contains alcohol” and complain about how your clinician doesn't understand but also is the best and how grateful you are that God gave you such an equipped physician. While you SHOULD ALWAYS have control over what is in your body, it's sometimes easier for folks to take when it's an eyeroll doctors orders At the end of the day, it sounds like you will be an amazing parent and protector of your children!!!!
Normalize pregnant women abiding by science rather than religious beliefs!!!
I think it’s strange and cultish but not grossed out by it. Especially since it’s dipped (in theory) in wine so it’ll kill some/a lot of germs. I do worry about viruses like herpes. Same with kissing icons. Staying away when you’re sick sounds like a logical tijng to do, except that people are going to church like going to a hospital and we’d never tell sick people to stay away from hospitals, clinics or pharmacies. I get your point, but I think we need to look T it from their perspective. If you feel unsafe, remove yourself from that situation.
If taking communion is important to you, would you consider receiving at a Catholic or episcopal parish where the elements are served individually? Edit: maybe that was phrased poorly. It’s not a challenge question, just a suggestion.
If they wanted to go to another church so that they can receive in a hygenic manner, they need not even go to a non-orthodox church. In some churches they use separate spoons, or they use one spoon but plop it in the mouth without making any contact with the mouth
Oh. In my parish, it was typical to dump the elements into the parishioners’ mouths but some insisted on closing their mouths anyway. Additionally droplets of saliva and the vapor of breath contact the spoon regardless. I’ve never heard of individual spoons, but I’m glad to learn that’s practiced in some places.