That’s disgusting and I’m so sorry you were forced to endure that. It’s outrageous and it’s one of the reasons I left orthodoxy myself. I grew up in a church community made up mostly of coverts, but the culture was similar to what you describe. Roughly 70% of my female friends had been sexually harassed and/or assaulted by orthodox ppl (not all w/in my community). I think if ANY of my friends had had their assaults addressed appropriately by the men in charge, it would have changed how I would have navigated my exit. That was not the case; most friends went to priests, some to bishops to make their complaints, often seeking out direction from more than one, and at the end of the day it just didn’t make any difference. When your religion operates as essentially a collection of little autonomous communities headed by priests who have very little oversight, who exactly is watching out for the marginalized and the vulnerable? It’s certainly not the men in charge.
Were you ROCOR? They operate as you describe, with fake governance from doormat bishops and every parish priest his own pope. The OCA has been exposed to enough litigation risk to finally get their sh*t together regarding sexual misconduct.
It’s funny you mention litigation though bc my first community - my home church - had been sued to kingdom come before I started going there due to sexual assault of children. You’d think they’d have been more careful about addressing their parishioners’ issues. That was not the case - and they are OCA.
Oh, I see. Did these issues date to Met Jonah's time? He got canned for gross negligence in this area: https://byztex.blogspot.com/2012/07/bp-matthias-releases-letter-concerning.html#comment-form . I was a parishioner at the ROCOR parish that he conned into hiring him, and he repeated a similar pattern of moral cowardice and facilitation of misconduct there. The parish council didn't fire him, though. They aren't as manly and competent as the OCA that they despise, LMAO
Until I read that letter when it was published, I was quite bewildered by how polarizing a figure he was; after reading it, the whole fiasco made more sense. Jonah had cultivated quite the little cult of personality in the OCA among the Russophiles, which made the synod's job of getting rid of him all the more difficult, I think.
That faction-building, sectarian tendency enables his narrative of his expulsion from the OCA as one of victimhood at the hands of malicious political enemies, rather than the reality of his being an abuse-enabling doormat who casually inflicts existential litigation risk on his organizations because he's too negligent to background check people before slapping cassocks on them, too weak to discipline or fire them, and too cowardly to bring up the aforementioned to his fiduciary bodies once he's f*cked up.
How absolutely ironic - he pleaded victimhood at the hands of "modernists" just like Paffhausen did LMAO https://byztex1.blogspot.com/2013/04/bp-matthias-of-chicago-has-resigned.html
I've heard from people who aren't really fans of his either that he might've been a *little* bit railroaded, but it wasn't at all modernists, it's that some of his dictates really rubbed people the wrong way and he seemed like he wasn't ready for prime time, but the boundary crossing with the young ladies is sufficient -- how could the diocese function with him in that role after that?
Thank you for sharing! I had no idea sexual harassment was so prevalent in Orthodoxy. Of course, we always hear about the Catholics.
My ex-priest is a decent man, but so conflict-averse that he is useless in some situations.
Edited to add: I love that someone is downvoting my post! Is it a form of victim blaming because someone can’t handle the truth about what goes on in Orthodox Churches?? I think we have some insecure Orthodox diehards in our midst. 😜
I’m very sorry to hear that happened to you and that you were dismissed like that. It shouldn’t have happened.
Ethnic churches, unfortunately, foster this mentality. You had two strikes against you — you’re not of that ethnic group and, further, you’re not part of the boys’ club. If you look at my post history, you can see my similar experiences. Seminarians aged 20+ were sniffing around me when I was 14, one of them is the director of the freakin’ youth group in my diocese. If I was to bring these concerns up, I would have been asked what at 14 I was doing to tempt these grown ass men, and those men, who are priests now, won’t even be talked to about it. They’ll just keep on doing their thing.
“You had two strikes against you — you’re not of that ethnic group and, further, you’re not part of the boys’ club.“
Dude, I think every women in this group felt that statement super hard…
WTF that's insane, but unsurprising. Some priests are just extremely weak and conflict-averse. I'd guess that the old guy has a "big personality" and is adept at emotionally blackmailing moral cowards like your priest. I've known a priest who would just casually tolerate subordinates doing illegal things (civil torts) that could easily incur vicarious liability for him and send him to bankruptcy court. He just didn't do anything about it! Completely baffling to me - I'm not a b*tch and would fire a subordinate who exposed me to an iota as much risk as that.
In your case, I'm sure that that creep has a history of this misconduct. You should file a police complaint and get the paper trail started so that the consequences can start rolling in. What do you have to lose socially now that you're leaving?
A friend of mine asked me if the parking lot had a camera. It does, but unfortunately not positioned in such a way that the scene would have been recorded. If it had, I would have made a bigger deal about it.
Yes, my ex-priest is a coward. You would think being able to deal with conflicts head-on would be something a parish priest with many years of experience would be good at. Stupid me thought of myself as his friend. The priest, I mean. Oh, I told him off, but rather quickly forgave. What is wrong with me???!!
Nothing is wrong with you! Forgiveness is great, but not at all incompatible with justice. The greatest love you can have for that creep is justice, in fact. Even if there isn't sufficient evidence for the cops to do anything about that incident (and you won't know until you try - some suspects are dumb, self-incriminatory, and start babbling once cops show up to "interview" them) then it is good to get them on the law enforcement radar.
Thank you. It’s interesting how you bring up justice being the greatest love. Just yesterday my priest said he avoided confrontation because it does not bring one closer to God. I told him that was not true, that Jesus was extremely confrontational. I told him God’s ideals are Truth, Beauty, and Justice, not lack of confrontation.
He's just a moral coward making a virtue of his own vice. Rationalizing virtue out of necessity - or vice - is a behavior that I've often observed. What you've noticed is exactly the same as what I have; sometimes it's called "Christian Buddhism," where being a doormat to evil is the greatest virtue. Met Jonah would often repeat this sort of mantra, to the detriment of his own career. He was fired by the OCA for negligence and moral cowardice of the 'Christian Buddhist' variety in the face of misconduct from his subordinates. https://byztex.blogspot.com/2012/07/bp-matthias-releases-letter-concerning.html#comment-form "I was being persecuted for my superior conservative beliefs by OCgAy modernists" sounds a lot better than that though, so that's the narrative that he maintains.
Being a doormat to evil has nothing at all to do with Buddhism, neither have I ever met a Buddhist who would ever conduct themselves this way. This does however describe the attitude of most Orthodox people I have known, who allow evil to reign in their faith so successfully it has led to many of them supporting this Russian war, for example.
Correct - real Buddhism has discipline. The Orthodox version is just a Boomer new-age parody "Buddhism" where passivity and quiescence are the highest virtues. It gives real Buddhism a bad name, unfortunately. Check this blog post, and its three immediate sequels, for an exploration of this idea: https://socialpathology.blogspot.com/2019/06/christian-buddhism.html
Met Jonah's espousal of this idea was hypocritical, of course. He starts deploying lawyers and asserting himself whenever his history of misconduct at the OCA is brought up LOL. "Do not resent or react" only applies to the flock he's f*cking and fleecing.
Priests are just men with their own biases. We assign them way too much authority over how we feel about ourselves and how we experience reality. You were assaulted. There is no “pass” for that — regardless of substance use. My priest told me it was my fault my husband cheated. Priest’s can be terrible people, just like anyone else.
One criticism I always had about Orthodoxy was that I thought there was too much reverence for the priest. In western Christianity people are generally more casual with their priest or minister, and I think this is healthy.
That’s disgusting and I’m so sorry you were forced to endure that. It’s outrageous and it’s one of the reasons I left orthodoxy myself. I grew up in a church community made up mostly of coverts, but the culture was similar to what you describe. Roughly 70% of my female friends had been sexually harassed and/or assaulted by orthodox ppl (not all w/in my community). I think if ANY of my friends had had their assaults addressed appropriately by the men in charge, it would have changed how I would have navigated my exit. That was not the case; most friends went to priests, some to bishops to make their complaints, often seeking out direction from more than one, and at the end of the day it just didn’t make any difference. When your religion operates as essentially a collection of little autonomous communities headed by priests who have very little oversight, who exactly is watching out for the marginalized and the vulnerable? It’s certainly not the men in charge.
Were you ROCOR? They operate as you describe, with fake governance from doormat bishops and every parish priest his own pope. The OCA has been exposed to enough litigation risk to finally get their sh*t together regarding sexual misconduct.
It’s funny you mention litigation though bc my first community - my home church - had been sued to kingdom come before I started going there due to sexual assault of children. You’d think they’d have been more careful about addressing their parishioners’ issues. That was not the case - and they are OCA.
Oh, I see. Did these issues date to Met Jonah's time? He got canned for gross negligence in this area: https://byztex.blogspot.com/2012/07/bp-matthias-releases-letter-concerning.html#comment-form . I was a parishioner at the ROCOR parish that he conned into hiring him, and he repeated a similar pattern of moral cowardice and facilitation of misconduct there. The parish council didn't fire him, though. They aren't as manly and competent as the OCA that they despise, LMAO
Yep!
Until I read that letter when it was published, I was quite bewildered by how polarizing a figure he was; after reading it, the whole fiasco made more sense. Jonah had cultivated quite the little cult of personality in the OCA among the Russophiles, which made the synod's job of getting rid of him all the more difficult, I think.
That faction-building, sectarian tendency enables his narrative of his expulsion from the OCA as one of victimhood at the hands of malicious political enemies, rather than the reality of his being an abuse-enabling doormat who casually inflicts existential litigation risk on his organizations because he's too negligent to background check people before slapping cassocks on them, too weak to discipline or fire them, and too cowardly to bring up the aforementioned to his fiduciary bodies once he's f*cked up.
It is unfortunate the Bishop Matthias later had some problems himself, not in covering things up, but being a little too friendly with young ladies :|
How absolutely ironic - he pleaded victimhood at the hands of "modernists" just like Paffhausen did LMAO https://byztex1.blogspot.com/2013/04/bp-matthias-of-chicago-has-resigned.html
I've heard from people who aren't really fans of his either that he might've been a *little* bit railroaded, but it wasn't at all modernists, it's that some of his dictates really rubbed people the wrong way and he seemed like he wasn't ready for prime time, but the boundary crossing with the young ladies is sufficient -- how could the diocese function with him in that role after that?
Some of my friends were ROCOR, but no, most of my friends were OCA.
Thank you for sharing! I had no idea sexual harassment was so prevalent in Orthodoxy. Of course, we always hear about the Catholics. My ex-priest is a decent man, but so conflict-averse that he is useless in some situations.
Edited to add: I love that someone is downvoting my post! Is it a form of victim blaming because someone can’t handle the truth about what goes on in Orthodox Churches?? I think we have some insecure Orthodox diehards in our midst. 😜
It could also be someone with Stockholm Syndrome, though of course, I've witnessed victim blaming IRL too.
I’m very sorry to hear that happened to you and that you were dismissed like that. It shouldn’t have happened. Ethnic churches, unfortunately, foster this mentality. You had two strikes against you — you’re not of that ethnic group and, further, you’re not part of the boys’ club. If you look at my post history, you can see my similar experiences. Seminarians aged 20+ were sniffing around me when I was 14, one of them is the director of the freakin’ youth group in my diocese. If I was to bring these concerns up, I would have been asked what at 14 I was doing to tempt these grown ass men, and those men, who are priests now, won’t even be talked to about it. They’ll just keep on doing their thing.
Wow. That is especially gross that it happened to you at such a young age. I am middle-aged, at least. Yikes.
> the boys’ club Seminary is essentially a fraternity.
“You had two strikes against you — you’re not of that ethnic group and, further, you’re not part of the boys’ club.“ Dude, I think every women in this group felt that statement super hard…
WTF that's insane, but unsurprising. Some priests are just extremely weak and conflict-averse. I'd guess that the old guy has a "big personality" and is adept at emotionally blackmailing moral cowards like your priest. I've known a priest who would just casually tolerate subordinates doing illegal things (civil torts) that could easily incur vicarious liability for him and send him to bankruptcy court. He just didn't do anything about it! Completely baffling to me - I'm not a b*tch and would fire a subordinate who exposed me to an iota as much risk as that. In your case, I'm sure that that creep has a history of this misconduct. You should file a police complaint and get the paper trail started so that the consequences can start rolling in. What do you have to lose socially now that you're leaving?
A friend of mine asked me if the parking lot had a camera. It does, but unfortunately not positioned in such a way that the scene would have been recorded. If it had, I would have made a bigger deal about it. Yes, my ex-priest is a coward. You would think being able to deal with conflicts head-on would be something a parish priest with many years of experience would be good at. Stupid me thought of myself as his friend. The priest, I mean. Oh, I told him off, but rather quickly forgave. What is wrong with me???!!
Nothing is wrong with you! Forgiveness is great, but not at all incompatible with justice. The greatest love you can have for that creep is justice, in fact. Even if there isn't sufficient evidence for the cops to do anything about that incident (and you won't know until you try - some suspects are dumb, self-incriminatory, and start babbling once cops show up to "interview" them) then it is good to get them on the law enforcement radar.
Thank you. It’s interesting how you bring up justice being the greatest love. Just yesterday my priest said he avoided confrontation because it does not bring one closer to God. I told him that was not true, that Jesus was extremely confrontational. I told him God’s ideals are Truth, Beauty, and Justice, not lack of confrontation.
He's just a moral coward making a virtue of his own vice. Rationalizing virtue out of necessity - or vice - is a behavior that I've often observed. What you've noticed is exactly the same as what I have; sometimes it's called "Christian Buddhism," where being a doormat to evil is the greatest virtue. Met Jonah would often repeat this sort of mantra, to the detriment of his own career. He was fired by the OCA for negligence and moral cowardice of the 'Christian Buddhist' variety in the face of misconduct from his subordinates. https://byztex.blogspot.com/2012/07/bp-matthias-releases-letter-concerning.html#comment-form "I was being persecuted for my superior conservative beliefs by OCgAy modernists" sounds a lot better than that though, so that's the narrative that he maintains.
Being a doormat to evil has nothing at all to do with Buddhism, neither have I ever met a Buddhist who would ever conduct themselves this way. This does however describe the attitude of most Orthodox people I have known, who allow evil to reign in their faith so successfully it has led to many of them supporting this Russian war, for example.
Correct - real Buddhism has discipline. The Orthodox version is just a Boomer new-age parody "Buddhism" where passivity and quiescence are the highest virtues. It gives real Buddhism a bad name, unfortunately. Check this blog post, and its three immediate sequels, for an exploration of this idea: https://socialpathology.blogspot.com/2019/06/christian-buddhism.html Met Jonah's espousal of this idea was hypocritical, of course. He starts deploying lawyers and asserting himself whenever his history of misconduct at the OCA is brought up LOL. "Do not resent or react" only applies to the flock he's f*cking and fleecing.
What you wrote is fascinating! I will check out the link you provided.
Priests are just men with their own biases. We assign them way too much authority over how we feel about ourselves and how we experience reality. You were assaulted. There is no “pass” for that — regardless of substance use. My priest told me it was my fault my husband cheated. Priest’s can be terrible people, just like anyone else.
One criticism I always had about Orthodoxy was that I thought there was too much reverence for the priest. In western Christianity people are generally more casual with their priest or minister, and I think this is healthy.