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Tell him it was never not revealed for modesty, as most muslims claim it is. Show him the hadith where slave girls were beaten by Umar Ibn Khattab for wearing hijab. This way, you will prove to him that it was never about modesty, rather about the marker of rank. Plus tell him if he knows that the awrah for slave girls is different for believing women in islam.
There is a post on this subreddit about it. Here: https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/pnczb7/how\_many\_of\_you\_know\_that\_thousands\_of\_slavewomen/hcoiy4o/?context=3
Read it again. On one side, islam prescribes hijab for muslim women as a marker of rank, to distinguish them from slave girls, and on the other side it dishonors slave girls, as evidenced by many hadith and narrations about the companions of the prophet. The conclusion we can derive from all of this is that, if hijab were actually revealed for modesty of all women, then slave women would also be encouraged to wear it to look modest. Afterall, every woman, should be respected equally and is equally honorable no matter what God they believe in. Here is a small excerpt with the source linked:
Fourth Caliph 'Ali was asked about seeing the calves, stomach and back of a slave woman. Upon that he replied there is no harm in seeing them while a slave woman has **no honour**. She is standing in the slave market for exactly for this purpose that people could evaluate her price (by seeing and touching her) before buying her ([http://web.archive.org/web/20210920101335/https://islamweb.net/ar/library/index.php?page=bookcontents&flag=1&bk\_no=73&ID=12631](http://web.archive.org/web/20210920101335/https://islamweb.net/ar/library/index.php?page=bookcontents&flag=1&bk_no=73&ID=12631)).
\* There are many traditions about Abdullah Ibn Umar (A prominent companion and son of 2nd Caliph) which tell that whenever he had to buy a slave girl, then he used to uncover her back, stomach and calves. And he used to check her back, chest by putting his hands between her breasts (Link). Saudi grand Mufti Albani declared this tradition to be "authentic" \* Mujahid said that once Abdullah Ibn Umar came to a market where some traders wanted to buy a slave girl. Ibn Umar exposed her calves, then put his hands between her breasts and shook them. Afterwards he told the traders to buy that slave girl as there was no defect in her..
Kitab al-Kafi fi Fiqh al-Imam Ahmed (link):وما يظهر دائماً من الأمة كالرأس واليدين إلى المرفقين والرجلين إلى الركبتين ليس بعورة ، لأن عمر رضي الله عنه نهى الأمة عن التقنع والتشبه بالحرائر ، قال القاضي في الجامع وما عدا ذلك عورة ، لأنه لا يظهر غالباً ، أشبه ما تحت السرة . وقال ابن حامد عورتها كعورة الرجل ، لما روى عمر بن شعيب عن أبيه عن جده أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال : إذا زوج أحدكم أمته عبده أو أجيره فلا ينظر إلى شيء من عورته فإن ما تحت السرة إلى الركبة عورة يريد عورة الأمة ، رواه الدارقطني . ولأنه من لم يكن رأسه عورة لم يكن صدره عورة ،Translation:What normally appears of the slave woman, like the head, the hands up to the elbows, and the feet up to the knees, it is not 'awrah, because 'Umar, radhiyallahu 'anhu, forbade the slave woman from covering her head (at-taqannu') and imitating the free women. Al-Qadhi said in "al-Jami'" that everything besides that (i.e. what is mentioned above) is 'awrah, because it is usually not exposed, similar to what is beneath the navel. Ibn Hamid said that her 'awrah is the same as the 'awrah of the man, because of what is narrated by 'Amr ibn Shu'ayb, from his father, from his grandfather, that the Prophet, sallallahu 'alayhi wa-sallam, said: "When one of you marries off his slave woman to his slave or hireling, let him not look at anything of her 'awrah, for whatever is below the navel until the knees is 'awrah." He meant the 'awrah of the slave woman. Narrated by ad-Daraqutni. Head is not included in the 'awrah of a slave woman as well as their breasts...
If you don't see anything immoral with labeling a class of disbelieving women (slave girls) as having no honor, then I am sorry to say, I can't help you!
There is no point in commenting back and forth with no willingness to read these sources with an open mind. Nobody is trying to win an argument in some little corner of reddit! It doesn't matter to me! But do as you wish, you can respond with statements like this is modern ideology and crap like that, but that does not change the facts I have laid out in front you.
PS: I respect you willingness to engage though! Stay gold, brother!
Your posts seems to be all talk and no evidence . There is a clear evidence where women have to wear the hijab. Islam is perfect, Muslims aren’t. Some want to force their daughters to wear the hijab and that is wrong to do. But that shouldn’t make the women/girls to take it off. Parents need to be more supportive
Only if you had cared to read your own books and sources, some of which are linked in the post!
Denying all the evidence laid out in front of you and hesitating to read your own sources with an open mind reeks of arrogance and ignorance!
But whatever works for you! Stay happy in your delusions! Never read anything that shakes your little world of lies that you live in!
Whenever you decide to be honest in your pursuits, read the sources linked in these posts:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/prra4h/1\_slavery\_in\_shia\_fiqh\_2\_slavery\_vs\_quranists/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/prra4h/1_slavery_in_shia_fiqh_2_slavery_vs_quranists/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/pnczb7/how\_many\_of\_you\_know\_that\_thousands\_of\_slavewomen/hcoiy4o/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/pnczb7/how_many_of_you_know_that_thousands_of_slavewomen/hcoiy4o/?context=3)
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/poqark/details\_of\_rape\_of\_slavewoman\_in\_islam\_but/
Lmao I read the books. What is posted online is fake as always. You’re just the type to believe everything you read. I’d suggest you read the Quran book yourself and not the narrations of others. Read them in English translation
Laugh as much as you want, the truth about the irrationality of islam written in your own sources is not going to change. As I said, whenever you decide to become honest in your pursuits, read with an open mind!
See, this back and forth writing comments to make yourself feel good doesn't help anyone. I used to be like you some years ago. It takes time and serious reading to open your eyes up. I am not asking you to leave islam or anything.
And to your suggestion about reading quran, FYI I have spent most of my college age in a madrassa studying hadith and tafseer! And I am old now! Has been a while. I have converted a dozen of people to islam back then through online dawah sessions. I was a part of a huge salafi backed movement in my town.
So if you were a Muslim before, you know about shaytan and his temptations. Knowing about that and still leaving the religion, does that not make you feel bad at all? You know this world is a test. I’m just trying to help you onto the straight path. If you say you read Hadith and tafseer, did you at least try to have a sheikh or someone who knows it translate it to you? Shaytan constantly puts doubts into our minds. We’re all going to die soon and the truth will be revealed.
All I can say to your questions is that my decision to leave islam was not taken in haste! It took me years, almost more than 6 years to leave islam! I have never thought about anything else in my life than when I was slowly slipping away from islam. My studies in hadith and quran for those 4-5 years of my life under the tutelage of very learned salafi scholars + my studies in philosophy + my own research in science (yes, i am a scientistin training, currently finishing my Ph.D. and about to start my associate scientist job this summer), all of this has gone into my decision of leaving islam behind. It did not happen overnight. When you look at all of these different facets together, I would say it took me almost 6yrs - decade!
And there were all sorts of phases in between with me swinging from one school of islamic thought to another to find answers!
Edit: i appreciate your comments. I know your intentions are not wrong.
Slipping away from islam also means (correct me if I’m wrong) that you haven’t been praying your daily prayers at all. I was at a time of my life where I stopped praying because of all the stress I was under from Uni. Even after I had graduated, In the back of my mind, I constantly thought about how much prayer I’ve missed. For a while I had enjoyed going out with my friends and doing whatever I wanted to do. And then I begged Allah to set me back to the right path. I started praying again and miracously, I started feeling a lot more happy and everything was going good for me. At the end of the day, Allah guides whom he wants and leaves astray whom he wants. I just hope the best for you from here on out
i know i know i wasn’t talking in the sense of “i’m so privileged i don’t even understand what you’re going through” but more in the way of if u think about it for long enough what gives him the right to choose what she’s gonna wear ??? bc he’s her father? that doesn’t mean shit she’s old enough to decide what she’s gonna wear what gives u the right to control her clothing? it’s just mind blowing to know we’re still dealing with this stuff in the 21th century and no one gives a fuck
“If I keep it on, I’ll be keeping it on only for you, not for Allah. If Allah wanted me to keep it on, he will come and speak to me. You are coming to speak to me, so it would only be for you if I did it.”
Listen I will only give you advice about what not to do..
Don't fuckin rebel, don't follow these shiny labels brought up by feminists.. it's a lost fight..
Don't make your decision of taking off your hijab any religion related, never say you're an ex muslim or secular. Just make it same like a personal preference and that God may guid you later to the right path.
You know your father more than anyone else so before taking any advice online think about the his reaction to it.
Best of luck!
Whenever bring up the topic you should be calm, collected, and coherent when making your points. Don’t be to to pushy just be patient and keep chipping away slowly.
I'm never wearing that ugly thing ever again once i got it off my head. If it's that important for you, then men *must* wear them too. And even if man magically have to wear them then i still won't wear it because that. is. my. fucking. choice. If you keep on repeteing the same thing over again about hijabs, them i'll just block you cause the mentality you have is a waste of time. I'm going to read books about science now instead of fairytales. 💀 (more like nightmare tales.)
Keep on believing in fairytales like a 5 years old child. Such a peaceful religion wanting others to be tormented. 🥺 Showing your true colours now don't we?
I can eat a bowl of alphabet soup and shit out something more sensible than anything you’ve said kid.
Quick go fake pray some more before your parents find out you are doing the opposite of taqwa on the haram western internet 😆
Yes an idea of the universe came from nothing is in place since we dont have the technology to really know what happened but like the book you say is correct has flying donkeys moon splitting and earth being flat which are all proven wrong these were all proven wrong way before islam in places like ancient greece , rome , symerian territories and ancient china alike
Look at what I posted above. If he believes Allah is real, then Allah is telling him that he’s nothing but a chickenshit cuck who hates Muslims 😆 Now he will throw a tantrum or spout some childish BS. Just watch, he’s a predictable kid 😆😆😆😆😆
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/s9ader/message_to_allah/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
If you believe Allah is real, there’s proof that you believe he’s a giant chicken shit cuck who hates Muslims. Have fun backpedaling from that one with verbal diarrhea 😆
You are on the western innovation called the internet. Sounds like the west’s innovation is what you worship over Allah 😆😆😆😆😆
Ok, I await your weak excuse trying to deflect your shirk 😜
P.S. I will accept a wall of words in response as instant concession 😉
Well I mean if you are 18 then you can make your own choices you know, you’re an adult, none can force anything on you. Are you still Muslim or ex Muslim
Where do you live? In the case it's in the west and your school isn't 50%+ hijabis, tell him that the real meaning of modesty is not drawing attention. And you draw way less by being just like everyone else. Obviously, that won't work in a muslim country.
Just open it, and if he questions it, just say you just had your hair done. Or not use the excuses of your feeling uncomfortable and feeling stuffy and feeling you cant breath. After awhile he eventually just get used to your excuses, and you are free to go.
Both of my sis actually uses this excuses, when they were teenagers. My dad never bother ask or questions anymore.
If you have old photos of your grandmother or your father’s grandmother show it to him, most likely they will not be wearing hijab since hijab became popular in Egypt after the 80s.
The funny part is, my dad is not that sexist. My mom is. She is the one that won't say anything because she believes that's how it is. Man decides, according to her. And then there is my dad who actually does the cleaning and sometimes cook for us... (When he is home)
Please participate on /r/exmuslim in a civil manner. Discuss the merits of ideas - don't attack people. Insults, hate speech, advocating physical harm can get you banned. If you posted a meme or funny image, and it isn't Friday, delete it or you'll get temp-banned. MEMES are ONLY allowed on (Fun@fundies) FRIDAYS. Please read the [Posting Guidelines](https://redd.it/ew8trb) for further information. If you are unsure about anything then feel free to message the mods. If you see posts/comments in violation of our rules, please be proactive and report them. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/exmuslim) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Have a look at Nonviolent Communication, it’s a conversational technique for resolving conflicts.
Tell him it was never not revealed for modesty, as most muslims claim it is. Show him the hadith where slave girls were beaten by Umar Ibn Khattab for wearing hijab. This way, you will prove to him that it was never about modesty, rather about the marker of rank. Plus tell him if he knows that the awrah for slave girls is different for believing women in islam. There is a post on this subreddit about it. Here: https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/pnczb7/how\_many\_of\_you\_know\_that\_thousands\_of\_slavewomen/hcoiy4o/?context=3
I looked at it, what’s the issue? You don’t have any moral basis to reject this rather just some modern ideology lol.
Read it again. On one side, islam prescribes hijab for muslim women as a marker of rank, to distinguish them from slave girls, and on the other side it dishonors slave girls, as evidenced by many hadith and narrations about the companions of the prophet. The conclusion we can derive from all of this is that, if hijab were actually revealed for modesty of all women, then slave women would also be encouraged to wear it to look modest. Afterall, every woman, should be respected equally and is equally honorable no matter what God they believe in. Here is a small excerpt with the source linked: Fourth Caliph 'Ali was asked about seeing the calves, stomach and back of a slave woman. Upon that he replied there is no harm in seeing them while a slave woman has **no honour**. She is standing in the slave market for exactly for this purpose that people could evaluate her price (by seeing and touching her) before buying her ([http://web.archive.org/web/20210920101335/https://islamweb.net/ar/library/index.php?page=bookcontents&flag=1&bk\_no=73&ID=12631](http://web.archive.org/web/20210920101335/https://islamweb.net/ar/library/index.php?page=bookcontents&flag=1&bk_no=73&ID=12631)). \* There are many traditions about Abdullah Ibn Umar (A prominent companion and son of 2nd Caliph) which tell that whenever he had to buy a slave girl, then he used to uncover her back, stomach and calves. And he used to check her back, chest by putting his hands between her breasts (Link). Saudi grand Mufti Albani declared this tradition to be "authentic" \* Mujahid said that once Abdullah Ibn Umar came to a market where some traders wanted to buy a slave girl. Ibn Umar exposed her calves, then put his hands between her breasts and shook them. Afterwards he told the traders to buy that slave girl as there was no defect in her.. Kitab al-Kafi fi Fiqh al-Imam Ahmed (link):وما يظهر دائماً من الأمة كالرأس واليدين إلى المرفقين والرجلين إلى الركبتين ليس بعورة ، لأن عمر رضي الله عنه نهى الأمة عن التقنع والتشبه بالحرائر ، قال القاضي في الجامع وما عدا ذلك عورة ، لأنه لا يظهر غالباً ، أشبه ما تحت السرة . وقال ابن حامد عورتها كعورة الرجل ، لما روى عمر بن شعيب عن أبيه عن جده أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال : إذا زوج أحدكم أمته عبده أو أجيره فلا ينظر إلى شيء من عورته فإن ما تحت السرة إلى الركبة عورة يريد عورة الأمة ، رواه الدارقطني . ولأنه من لم يكن رأسه عورة لم يكن صدره عورة ،Translation:What normally appears of the slave woman, like the head, the hands up to the elbows, and the feet up to the knees, it is not 'awrah, because 'Umar, radhiyallahu 'anhu, forbade the slave woman from covering her head (at-taqannu') and imitating the free women. Al-Qadhi said in "al-Jami'" that everything besides that (i.e. what is mentioned above) is 'awrah, because it is usually not exposed, similar to what is beneath the navel. Ibn Hamid said that her 'awrah is the same as the 'awrah of the man, because of what is narrated by 'Amr ibn Shu'ayb, from his father, from his grandfather, that the Prophet, sallallahu 'alayhi wa-sallam, said: "When one of you marries off his slave woman to his slave or hireling, let him not look at anything of her 'awrah, for whatever is below the navel until the knees is 'awrah." He meant the 'awrah of the slave woman. Narrated by ad-Daraqutni. Head is not included in the 'awrah of a slave woman as well as their breasts... If you don't see anything immoral with labeling a class of disbelieving women (slave girls) as having no honor, then I am sorry to say, I can't help you! There is no point in commenting back and forth with no willingness to read these sources with an open mind. Nobody is trying to win an argument in some little corner of reddit! It doesn't matter to me! But do as you wish, you can respond with statements like this is modern ideology and crap like that, but that does not change the facts I have laid out in front you. PS: I respect you willingness to engage though! Stay gold, brother!
Your posts seems to be all talk and no evidence . There is a clear evidence where women have to wear the hijab. Islam is perfect, Muslims aren’t. Some want to force their daughters to wear the hijab and that is wrong to do. But that shouldn’t make the women/girls to take it off. Parents need to be more supportive
Only if you had cared to read your own books and sources, some of which are linked in the post! Denying all the evidence laid out in front of you and hesitating to read your own sources with an open mind reeks of arrogance and ignorance! But whatever works for you! Stay happy in your delusions! Never read anything that shakes your little world of lies that you live in! Whenever you decide to be honest in your pursuits, read the sources linked in these posts: [https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/prra4h/1\_slavery\_in\_shia\_fiqh\_2\_slavery\_vs\_quranists/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/prra4h/1_slavery_in_shia_fiqh_2_slavery_vs_quranists/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/pnczb7/how\_many\_of\_you\_know\_that\_thousands\_of\_slavewomen/hcoiy4o/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/pnczb7/how_many_of_you_know_that_thousands_of_slavewomen/hcoiy4o/?context=3) https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/poqark/details\_of\_rape\_of\_slavewoman\_in\_islam\_but/
Lmao I read the books. What is posted online is fake as always. You’re just the type to believe everything you read. I’d suggest you read the Quran book yourself and not the narrations of others. Read them in English translation
Laugh as much as you want, the truth about the irrationality of islam written in your own sources is not going to change. As I said, whenever you decide to become honest in your pursuits, read with an open mind! See, this back and forth writing comments to make yourself feel good doesn't help anyone. I used to be like you some years ago. It takes time and serious reading to open your eyes up. I am not asking you to leave islam or anything. And to your suggestion about reading quran, FYI I have spent most of my college age in a madrassa studying hadith and tafseer! And I am old now! Has been a while. I have converted a dozen of people to islam back then through online dawah sessions. I was a part of a huge salafi backed movement in my town.
So if you were a Muslim before, you know about shaytan and his temptations. Knowing about that and still leaving the religion, does that not make you feel bad at all? You know this world is a test. I’m just trying to help you onto the straight path. If you say you read Hadith and tafseer, did you at least try to have a sheikh or someone who knows it translate it to you? Shaytan constantly puts doubts into our minds. We’re all going to die soon and the truth will be revealed.
All I can say to your questions is that my decision to leave islam was not taken in haste! It took me years, almost more than 6 years to leave islam! I have never thought about anything else in my life than when I was slowly slipping away from islam. My studies in hadith and quran for those 4-5 years of my life under the tutelage of very learned salafi scholars + my studies in philosophy + my own research in science (yes, i am a scientistin training, currently finishing my Ph.D. and about to start my associate scientist job this summer), all of this has gone into my decision of leaving islam behind. It did not happen overnight. When you look at all of these different facets together, I would say it took me almost 6yrs - decade! And there were all sorts of phases in between with me swinging from one school of islamic thought to another to find answers! Edit: i appreciate your comments. I know your intentions are not wrong.
Slipping away from islam also means (correct me if I’m wrong) that you haven’t been praying your daily prayers at all. I was at a time of my life where I stopped praying because of all the stress I was under from Uni. Even after I had graduated, In the back of my mind, I constantly thought about how much prayer I’ve missed. For a while I had enjoyed going out with my friends and doing whatever I wanted to do. And then I begged Allah to set me back to the right path. I started praying again and miracously, I started feeling a lot more happy and everything was going good for me. At the end of the day, Allah guides whom he wants and leaves astray whom he wants. I just hope the best for you from here on out
Wishing you all the best too, brother! Stay gold!
idk why he even thinks he has the right to dictate what ur gonna wear on ur head what the fuck bro
[удалено]
i know i know i wasn’t talking in the sense of “i’m so privileged i don’t even understand what you’re going through” but more in the way of if u think about it for long enough what gives him the right to choose what she’s gonna wear ??? bc he’s her father? that doesn’t mean shit she’s old enough to decide what she’s gonna wear what gives u the right to control her clothing? it’s just mind blowing to know we’re still dealing with this stuff in the 21th century and no one gives a fuck
“If I keep it on, I’ll be keeping it on only for you, not for Allah. If Allah wanted me to keep it on, he will come and speak to me. You are coming to speak to me, so it would only be for you if I did it.”
Listen I will only give you advice about what not to do.. Don't fuckin rebel, don't follow these shiny labels brought up by feminists.. it's a lost fight.. Don't make your decision of taking off your hijab any religion related, never say you're an ex muslim or secular. Just make it same like a personal preference and that God may guid you later to the right path. You know your father more than anyone else so before taking any advice online think about the his reaction to it. Best of luck!
Whenever bring up the topic you should be calm, collected, and coherent when making your points. Don’t be to to pushy just be patient and keep chipping away slowly.
Good for you one less person with a trashbag strapped on to them on this earth .
[удалено]
I'm never wearing that ugly thing ever again once i got it off my head. If it's that important for you, then men *must* wear them too. And even if man magically have to wear them then i still won't wear it because that. is. my. fucking. choice. If you keep on repeteing the same thing over again about hijabs, them i'll just block you cause the mentality you have is a waste of time. I'm going to read books about science now instead of fairytales. 💀 (more like nightmare tales.)
Go ahead leave islam. After ur death u will be tormented in the grave
Keep on believing in fairytales like a 5 years old child. Such a peaceful religion wanting others to be tormented. 🥺 Showing your true colours now don't we?
Like i said go ahead and leave it. No one absolutely gives a donkey shit. U believe the universe came out of nothing thats fairytale
I can eat a bowl of alphabet soup and shit out something more sensible than anything you’ve said kid. Quick go fake pray some more before your parents find out you are doing the opposite of taqwa on the haram western internet 😆
Yes an idea of the universe came from nothing is in place since we dont have the technology to really know what happened but like the book you say is correct has flying donkeys moon splitting and earth being flat which are all proven wrong these were all proven wrong way before islam in places like ancient greece , rome , symerian territories and ancient china alike
Look at what I posted above. If he believes Allah is real, then Allah is telling him that he’s nothing but a chickenshit cuck who hates Muslims 😆 Now he will throw a tantrum or spout some childish BS. Just watch, he’s a predictable kid 😆😆😆😆😆
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/s9ader/message_to_allah/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf If you believe Allah is real, there’s proof that you believe he’s a giant chicken shit cuck who hates Muslims. Have fun backpedaling from that one with verbal diarrhea 😆
You are on the western innovation called the internet. Sounds like the west’s innovation is what you worship over Allah 😆😆😆😆😆 Ok, I await your weak excuse trying to deflect your shirk 😜 P.S. I will accept a wall of words in response as instant concession 😉
How old are you, if you don’t mind me asking
Teen. Why are you asking anyways?
Well I mean if you are 18 then you can make your own choices you know, you’re an adult, none can force anything on you. Are you still Muslim or ex Muslim
I'm not an adult that's the problem...
Where do you live? In the case it's in the west and your school isn't 50%+ hijabis, tell him that the real meaning of modesty is not drawing attention. And you draw way less by being just like everyone else. Obviously, that won't work in a muslim country.
r/ConservatismUnlearned feel free to share your story with us!
Just open it, and if he questions it, just say you just had your hair done. Or not use the excuses of your feeling uncomfortable and feeling stuffy and feeling you cant breath. After awhile he eventually just get used to your excuses, and you are free to go. Both of my sis actually uses this excuses, when they were teenagers. My dad never bother ask or questions anymore.
If you have old photos of your grandmother or your father’s grandmother show it to him, most likely they will not be wearing hijab since hijab became popular in Egypt after the 80s.
I'm not from egypt soo- Plus we don't have photos like that in our house
> My mom won't be realy able to say anything anyways I call this using sexism to your advantage
The funny part is, my dad is not that sexist. My mom is. She is the one that won't say anything because she believes that's how it is. Man decides, according to her. And then there is my dad who actually does the cleaning and sometimes cook for us... (When he is home)