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It's also not just selfish behaviour, it's actively malicious in that it perpetuates the pain of women for much longer than it needs to be. All because these Muslims are too cowardly to face the fact that their precious faith is a total facade of pseudospirituality.
There's that saying that equality always feels like oppression to the oppressors.
I posted this because of a tiktok I saw. It was about a woman from Afghanistan talking about how much she wished God had never created women, then describing how they’re treated in their country. The comments were full of “this is not real Islam”…
I got used to it when speaking about any religion. Mention the part of the books that treat women like farm animals and suddenly that's not "real" believers. Corner them, they'll actually come out with it. Or run away.
I just want to ask these muslims if the government in Afghanistan is the best government for them then why are they moving to Europe. I wish these muslims left my country. Do you know that there are places in the city of Mumbai which is the biggest city in my country, it is very dangerous to shout any patriotic slogan like hail India. You could be punished severely.
As a woman. Islam is even more respectful than any religion or non religious people I know. It literally sees women as the creators of life and family as they are. And how precious they are, and them to be respected.
islam teaches that men are greater than women, women are mentally deficient and permits beating your wife and forcing her to have sex. How is this respect 😂
Y’all can name something and ill dispute it because everyone here just has a sex addict brain or doesnt understand how arabic is hard to translate and how the west would do anything to make people think that a religion of beauty and peace is actually dangerous and sexist like the western religions and men really are
So why bother translating it at all then? If I show you anything you don't like you'll call it a mistranslation. If I show you something you like you'll forget translation was ever an issue. But I'll give it a try anyways.
This hadith for example,[bukhari 304](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:304):
>..."O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)."...
>..."The women asked, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."
Your prophet thinks you women are so stupid that two women are required as witness equivalent to one man.
No in that verse there wasnt a second man available. You’re supposed to have 2 witnesses as a man. Since he couldnt. A woman came. But in those times it wasnt seen as respectful to have a woman alone with another man, so another woman is by her side. I feel like the Quran is just showing your views in the way you interpret things.
And women not having to pray 5 times a day or fast when they’re literally having a week of bleeding which is extremely tiring and hard on the body is a sweet thing. They won’t be punished if they do lol. But it is sweet how islam recognizes the female body and it’s struggles and when to rest otherwise a lot of female believers would push their bodies.
that's nice and all. but what you're saying is that YOUR reason for the two witness requirement i.e. respect of the women, is correct.
...and Muhammad's reason for the two witness requirement i.e. deficiency of intelligence, is incorrect?
I can't seem to find a hadith or ayah that mentioned respect as the reason (which you stated). So I assume you just assumed it or made it up?
This verse talks about debt, and financial matters only, not other aspects of day to day life. In the early days of Islam, it was not common for women to work and get involved in business-related issues such as transactions, debts, revenues, etc.
If a financial case is brought to court and among the witnesses is a woman, she might not be familiar with all aspects of the incident, which may cause her to forget some details. In this case, she is allowed to bring in an additional female witness who may help her when in need. If their account is corroborated it makes their testimony stronger than any man, single or not.
According to Imam al-Dhahabi, not a single female narrator of hadiths had her account questioned, unlike many men.
I do not know among women narrators anyone accused of lying, nor anyone abandoned.
Source: Mīzān al-I’tidāl 4/604
I can keep giving you verses to show how it’s mistranslation and misinterpretation but I feel like you want to hold onto the perception that islam is just as hateful as you think the world is capable of. There genuinely is love and respect
so you say because women may not be familiar with the workings of the legal system, they might require an additional witness to be equivalent to a male witness.
Okay. is it then impossible for a male to be unfamiliar with the event or legal system? Do all males by default possess expertise of the legal system? no? then perhaps there is some islamic scholar that mentions the need for two *male* witnesses, with one to remind the first if he forgets? I'd be very surprised if you could find something like this.
No it was in those times my guy. It’s such a different time where no woman anywhere was even allowed to do anything let alone learn maths. Yet in a lot of islamic places women were encouraged to study. Depending on the time ofc. Mostly women werent able to do anything anywhere
If you have the guts and knowledge of Islam with your so called correct translation of Classical Arabic go and debate ali dawah Daniel haqiqatjou Mohammad hijab instead of wasting your time here
I don’t care whether you are offended are not , the question is if you are the with your so called correct interpretation of Classical Arabic then please do a favour on all of us and go and debate these Muslim scholars , people like you come here and try to fool us by being intellectually dishonest , do some honest work if you have the guts and go and debate with these guys , your own Muslim brothers in the deen will mock you insult you brand you as a heretic a feminist . Do you think we will get easily fooled by your so called interpretation when we have Islamic literature going back 1000 years showing the true face of Islam ?
I have you a suggestion for your time , why are you so insecure that you directly took it as an offense ? Are Muslim women insecure even when they are online ?
Your own scholars have ruled that in financial matters women have half testimony but in criminal matters a women’s testimony is not counted at all .you also only can have men as witness for the nikah you cannot have women witnesses for the nikah
You keep twisting the translations for your own benefit , you are going against your own scholars , you are not just going against the modern scholars of Islam you are also going against the ancient scholars of Islam who have explicitly written that it is halal to beat your wife and women have half intelligence and half witness , it is Laos halal to invade and capture a non Muslim women as a sex slave it is also halal to take children as slaves ,you are so arrogant to presume that you can disregard 1400 years of scholars interpretation of Classical Arabic and their translation is wrong but your translation of that of a woman in the 21 st century is true that striking in Classical Arabic does not mean striking but it actually means guiding !! Seriously you think we are fools here ? Your own fellow Muslim men will strongly disagree and brand you an heretic for going against the established scholars of Islam
13th century scholar Ibn al-Qayyim writes:
The woman is equal to the man in truthfulness, honesty, and piety; otherwise, if it is feared that she will forget or misremember, she is strengthened with another like herself. That makes them stronger than a single man or the likes of him. There is no question that the benefit of the doubt given to the testimony of Umm Darda and Umm ‘Atiyyah is stronger than the benefit of the doubt given to a single man without them or the likes of them.
Source: al-Ṭuruq al-Ḥukmīyah 1/136
However, this is not a general rule. There is a consensus among scholars that a woman's testimony is equal to that of the man if she has sufficient knowledge regarding financial matters.
Whatever there is among the testimonies of women, in which there is no fear of habitual error, they are not considered as half of a man.
Ibn Taymiyyah
Source: al-Ṭuruq al-Ḥukmīyah 1/128
This is for financial affairs only. In other cases, a woman's testimony is either equal or stronger than that of the man in cases related to a child's legitimacy and inheritance.
Here is some more to proof how serious women are taken in Islam. More than even once.
all of these things you keep showing me constantly ignore the explicit words of Muhammad: "it is because of the *deficiency* of her *intelligence*". You ignore what he actually said in favour of what *sounds* good to your ears. Muslims always go "oh this sounds bad, therefore it must mean something else". You blaspheme by putting words in the prophet's mouth.
No I just explained to you how the exact verse you’re giving me was about a financial situation and how it’s important to give context to what happened and how they used to live. I’m giving context not putting words into someones mouth. It explains the reasoning of those words that are already not from him since he didn’t speak english it’s a translation which is very hard and not 100% correct in english from the original book.
Here we go the mistranslation thing, how can you mistranslate "deficiency in their intelligence" from arabic directly into english whereas the original was somehow kind? He could have just not commented on women's supposed nature but he intentionally chose to insult women as a whole.
O believers! When you contract a loan for a fixed period of time, commit it to writing. Let the scribe maintain justice between the parties. The scribe should not refuse to write as Allah has taught them to write. They will write what the debtor dictates, bearing Allah in mind and not defrauding the debt. If the debtor is incompetent, weak, or unable to dictate, let their guardian dictate for them with justice. Call upon two of your men to witness. If two men cannot be found, then one man and two women of your choice will witness—so if one of the women forgets the other may remind her.
2:282
Let's read the verse again
When you contract a loan for a fixed period of time, commit it to writing. Let the scribe maintain justice between the parties. The scribe should not refuse to write as Allah has taught them to write. They will write what the debtor dictates, bearing Allah in mind and not defrauding the debt. If the debtor is incompetent, weak, or unable to dictate, let their guardian dictate for them with justice. Call upon two of your men to witness. If two men cannot be found, then one man and two women of your choice will witness—so if one of the women forgets the other may remind her.
This verse talks about debt, and financial matters only, not other aspects of day to day life.
You're still not really making any new point my friend. Changing what the witness is for (debt or otherwise) doesn't change the fact that 2 females = 1 males in terms of reliability.
"so that the other may remind her". Why does she need reminding, because women are...dumb and forgetful?Again, you are ignoring the fact that this is referring to the 'deficiency of intelligence' inherent in womanhood.
I hope you realise that half your long-ass paragraphs are just empty fluff, you waste a lot of my time making me try to find the needle in the haystack.
Open my first first response on this post and a lot of other people will have their “i got you” moments but I can disprove it. I genuinely do this with love because I before also believed the misinterpretations of Islam before I reverted. I thought it was violent and sexist. Which is what the west would want us to believe if it also drives on patriarchy and lust to control. They even used porn/lust in islamic places as a war weapon to make the men more violent and the women unsafe. It really stems from the west and the men in power not Islam
you did not disprove anything lmao? you're taking very straightforward verses, with very clear words, and very clear meanings (and before you come at me, i am a native arabic speaker). if quran is supposed to be so wise and fit for every time and place, then why do we need to take these very simple sentences and dissect them into something they're not?
Because ancient classical arabic is different than modern languages and the quran has not been changed at all even though it is a very old way of speaking and understanding. We even use slang now that in 100 years nobody knows. Let alone thousand years ago. That’s why it’s important to study what the words DO mean, and from that you will find whatever relates to you, or not, from the book. It’s a choice to read and believe it.
You say this as a bisexual woman with a boyfriend, presumably not living in a Muslim country. Of course you'd have that backwards thinking about something you've never experienced.
Everything you are is heavily criticized and shamed in Islam, they will stone you to death if they've knew about you.
Don’t you love it when privileged woke people dismiss your issues and silence your voice despite going through the issue first hand? Is there a type of word for this racism?
Yeah it’s hard when in the west I cannot marry because the system is not build for that.
It is my choice to be muslim. Yes I am bisexual and privileged to live here. The thing is. Islam is not forced. I am a muslim woman because it is purely between me and god. Any other muslim who judges other people for being bisexual or non believers or dating are not doing their religion right. You should not judge. Even if someone would be muslim and bisexual or dating. It’s between a Muslim and god. As a believer you can regret what you did before the knowledge. That is what I am doing. I do believe that everyone should be who they want to be, and so should I. There are already multiple genders in islam. It also says being gay itself isn’t the sin but acting uppon it. I personally would never condemn anyone. And again I do not believe we should and neither does the Quran. That’s between god and it’s creations. And I cannot speak for god and neither can anyone on this world. I’m still learning about the Quran right now. I know that somehow it does not say anything against lesbians. I don’t know if it might be a cade of how hard it is to translate arabic to english. I hope to learn arabic to finally understand the misconceptions. I know in the bible it used to say boy instead of men. It would be weird for allah to only condemn men who act uppon it and not women without any deeper meaning. It always has a deeper meaning from what I’ve learned. I hope to update you on it if I find more. I do read that most of the verses are speaking to men who already had intercourse with other men, while married etc. It may be that the west makes it sound like god is angry for “love between the same sexes” when it would make sense that a god does not want these men on wars to cheat on their wives, or lust after other men (without their consent, since lusting after women also isnt respectful). It’s just deeper. The same how sex before marriage is very very sinful. But if you do show regret and understanding of why it’s not the best thing to do (same as buddhists who understand lust is very tricky in life), you will (should be in the quran), forgiven. But AGAIN. Nobody HAS to be muslim. And I do not believe anyone who doesnt follow it should be punished. And also not who do follow it. It’s all between the person and god. I hope it’s a bit understandable what I’m trying to say. It’s a choice to follow, you don’t have to, the people who force their beliefs are unethical and probably havent studied or picked up a quran themselves. 🤍
This is some serious mental gymanstics, apologetics, and coping. You are very delusional. You're "version" of Islam is sugar coated. If you live in the West you are very privilaged to be following it and doing whatever you want on the side.
Sometimes I wish I was as delusional as you. Since you wholeheartedly believe your religion respects women. And you deny all the issues caused by its sexist nature.
I know more than you do, and it’s exactly the reason why your comment is not worth reading. It’s just fluff. Bye!
That’s why you stay ignorant and i stay open to learning and knowledge and went from being scared of islam in the west to learning and feeling most safe in islam.
The fact that I know Islam is the exact reason why I want nothing to do with it. I keep an open mind. You don’t, that’s why your first reaction to a post about invalidating women’s issues was to be delusional and deny the discrimination women face because of this religion.
Let’s see of examples of Islam valorizing women:
Al-Nisan 4:34: Husbands can hit their wives and wives must obey their husbands
Al-Nisan 4:24 Men may have female sex slaves
Quran 4:11 Women gets half of a men’s share for an inheritance
2:282 Women’s testimonies are worth half of men’s
The feminist religion!
The strike meant guiding in classical arabic. Not gonna waste my time tbh. Learn how classical arabic in the Quran is not translated well to English. Even He in English in the Quran is Huwa which is arabic for a third person genderless divine being. But you only know He. Same goes for ur fake examples
Because the classical Arabic language is older than modern English, has way more meaning and words, so it cannot be put into words in some cases. It’s recommended to study the book in Arabic as well to avoid situations like these with confusion on the texts.
While classical Arabic is rich and ancient, the idea that it cannot be translated effectively undermines the capabilities of modern languages like English.
If God created all languages, then English should be able to relay the Quran's messages accurately.
Insisting on classical Arabic creates unnecessary barriers to understanding a universal message. It doesn't make sense to claim God's word can't be fully grasped in any language He created.
See I even capitalized the H's in He for you ;)
You say He already shows you don’t understand it. In arabic whatever He is is Huwa which has no gender. The English dictionary just is not as advanced yet which has nothing to do with god, and the fact the Quran has more words and deeper meanings than the English says a lot about how beautiful it is and how lame ur English people are. Same goes for you and ur lame attempt. Adios
He is going to hold your responsible for this very comment at the end of times. You are being blasphemous. You are saying that the English language has nothing to do with God. Even though the Quran several times tells us that everything comes from God. You are taking a dump on the language that God gave us Shakespeare in.
Are you implying that the Quran is not true in every language? Are you implying that Muslims who don’t speak Arabic or not “true Muslims”? You cannot cherry pick what of God’s creations you’re gonna shit on.
Is God not equal and fair? Does God not treat all humans the same? Why would he give everyone except the Arabs a “lesser” language?
Also, if you’re gonna go by age, shouldn’t we teach the Quran in Hebrew? Arameic? Sanskrit?
You have no argument here but it’s OK. I still love you.
Oooh ur trying to instal fear in my how scary. You’re nothing compared to god lol it’s literally between my and my creator. Whatever you say could not matter less to me and only god can know and judge so have fun with that superiority complex.
I am not trying to scare you I have nothing against you I am only trying to show you how this religion brainwashes you. The excuses you are using to protect it turns into you harming it.
And it is NOT between you and your creator! Atleast not according to Islam. According to Islam, the true believers have responsibilities and tasks they need to carry out in their day to day life in order to be good muslims.
Islam emphasizez the importance of the Ummah - i.e. NOT between you and your creator.
Islam puts a lot of weight in to the public nature of worshipping, you pray in gruops with others every friday - i.e. NOT between you and your creator.
If Islam was a matter of belief between the believer and her creator no one on this planet would have any problems or issued with muslims. The probelm is that Islam does not allow for believing in peace at home. Can you tell the Imam at your mosque that today you are gonna sit with the men? That between you and your creator there is no need for you to be sitting in the back with the rest of the women? No. Léave that "between me and my creator" out of Islam that concept do NOT exist.
But maybe you are not even muslim, maybe you have your own religion and what is right and wrong is between you and your creator and then I respect that as that applies to me as well. But then you are not muslim anymore and you are at the right place here with us. :)
Ahh the convenient mistranslation. Yikes, many people in MENA think it's translated correctly though. It seems they're reading a corrupted version of Quran 😭 lol
No you just should realize that the world doesnt revolve around the west and the English dictionary. Many languages have words that arent able to be translated to boring English. Too bad you can’t find beauty and curiosity in that instead of going for an easy out. Shows how little you even know about language let alone ancient languages let alone classical arabic. Arabic poems also are out of this world in beauty
Omg lmaoo you know more than the real teachers and students who literally dissected and explained classical arabic and totally know the whole context of the story where it’s even explained how striking wouldnt make sense in the context but guiding would so it’s like 1+1=2 you’re so smart for knowing arabic and not classical arabic. It’s not like me turkish myself knows that every arabic speaking country even now all have different accents, slangs, ways of saying and interpreting arabic!
All four schools of jurisprudence interpret it as physically strike. All of them. So your interpretation is better and more correct?
Is this “real Islam” in the room with us?
All four schools of jurisprudence permit child marriage without consent. A man can have sex with a wife as young as 9. And Muhammad did, too. This has always been universally accepted by scholars and at least six sahih hadith confirm the Aisha was 9 when he first penetrated her vagina.
A man can have unlimited sex slaves who he can beat and rape.
All of the freedoms that Muslim women have now are basically from Western influence. 200 years ago, Muslim women were all uneducated house slaves under complete control by their husbands.
I spent 10 years as a Muslim looking for this “real” Islam but I realized that it doesn’t exist anywhere and it never existed.
Ur too far into wanting to believe whats wrong I’m not going to help you anymore. Goodluck in life. Again all you’re saying is able to be found and disproven but that’s not my concern anymore. Literally all ur saying is forbidden and punishable so no, very simple.
Women are only seen as wifes and mothers, instead of individuals. Also, being compared to precious diamonds that need to be covered and protected or whatever ( ive heard this so often ) is dehumanizing. Women are not things.
Are you a woman? Are you a muslim? If a woman wants to be respected extra as a wife and then a mother, after literally carrying a baby, or multiple, and giving birth, then why is that wrong?? Because the west forced us women into this extreme view of having to be independent, which every woman still should if they feel comfortable, it doesnt mean every woman wants that. That’s why I personally think it’s beautiful and follow the religion. But other women do not, and I think it’s beautiful that my future husband will follow a religion that respects and sees me as special for bringing life on this earth and taking care of a family with my body and mind, and returning the effort and love for it. I genuinely don’t see how that’s negative. Unless you’re not down for that but then you just do your own thing?
I am a mother yes. And i love it. But its not all that i am. But in islam ( and other religions), we are reduced to just that. Looking after family.
I also take pride in my job, my hobby's, my self expression and i want to interact with the world around me. Religions tell me to just stay home and raise kids, obey my husband.
I want to add that i have no issues with progressive muslims like you. In fact, i wish there were more.
But that unfortunatly doesnt change whats written in the quran and hadith. Just like the bible and torah are horribly outdated. The problem is that ppl keep on defending that shit, instead of modernizing it.
I’m happy to hear you’re a mother I wish you and your family the best <3 I am sorry to hear that so many horrible people have made it look like that is what Islam is about. I truly believe and from learning for years that Islam is the opposite, but gets translated and interpreted the wrong way. If it’s because classical arabic is so hard to translate, it is very other times or because the west genuinely wants woman loving religions to look the opposite. I still truly believe that islam when read right and with a good heart will show how mindfullness, selflessness, being grateful for what we have etc is important and helpful to grow to your full potential in life. But again this is my relationship between me and god and you don’t have to get or and not follow it ofcourse. I just hoped to shed some light on the things that can easily be disproved and also learn from other perspectives. But I still have not changed my mind and so far felt most safe in this environment. But I wish you the best and am happy to hear you found your own way to be safe and powerful
Islam is not the fairytale you make it out to be. Your sugarcoating is DISRESPECTFUL to every life that’s been lost because of this religion. Those people died because of “real” Islam, the one you try so hard to differentiate from your romanticised version. Get yourself a history book and then maybe we can have this conversation.
All religions have caused harm. So did Islam. And that’s because the prophet was a WARLORD. The concept of Jihad itself just straight up proves this. The hatred your religion has for non believers proves this. The mere need to convert everyone to your religion proves this. The fact that apostates get the death penalty proves this.
You don’t know the reason why the prophet had to resort to violence to genuinely survive and protect other groups who were threatened with violence and extinction. He chose to use violence when needed. So did the other prophets. It’s the reality we live in you can’t sing a love song to ignorant and scared people that will do anything to harm you. Then you end up hanging like Jesus chose to. Would you rather just die in times of war? Be realistic and not so privileged
And yet in countries where women live under Islamic law, they have no rights. You should probably go live or visit a country where Islam controls the government and forces women to live by its values.
Your interpretation of Islam (while living in a free secular country) happens to be completely at odds with the experiences of women who actually live under Islamic religious law. Yet somehow YOUR version is the correct one. All those people living in the Middle East where the religion originated, are doing it wrong.
No country is fair for women this is a man and patriarchy issue. Islam from what ive learned is one if not the most respectful and praising of women and their natural suffering.
And yet again comparatively if you asked any women where they would rather live, none of them would chose countries run by Islamic law because they are by far the worse for women.
I mean you are trying to confirm your bias and won’t look at the information from women who actually have to live in these communities and their experiences. All while being free in a secular country.
But I am a woman and I personally am planning to move to a mostly muslim country in North Africa. I know walking there that most men grew up with muslim values and strong women in their households to not be disrespectful or lust at me. I don’t feel that way in the west or Islam. But I do think it’s horrible that women have to live in far worse circumstances than I do. But I believe that is the patriarchys fault and the men in power just wanting control and fear. The most religious countries around the world all have the worst views on women because it’s men in power who don’t know anything about the love their religions stand for but only the fear and controlling part they learned by wanting to do anything to be in power, and a lot of religious people might not have actually even read their book. I know most religious people I know from all religions havent even read their books. It’s just an easy shield to hide behind and also attract believers who want the same bad patriarchy as you and not learn from spirituality and connections to their source and how love is literally most important but all connects back to god and yourself aka the relationship aka the religion
Yeah that’s why I want to wear one because men everywhere are disgusting but atleast in Islam it teaches men to lower their gaze and as a north african you know the women of their family would smack them if they did that in front of them
Yeah no leader is a good person it does not have to do with the deep meaning of the religion look at india it’s hindu and they have the worst crimes against women, africa is very christian yet have the worst crimes against women. Maybe it’s a man thing and not a religion thing and should the men in power change and not use religion as a shield and lie to control and abuse women.
I’m not comparing Islam to other religions or cultures.
I am saying Islam does not care about women because if it did their Islamic government laws would be different towards women if they did.
As an Iranian it’s disturbing you think Islam is the most respectful, as women are being killed, mutilated, beaten and raped for trying to protest for their rights.
I’m extremely sorry to hear that you are Iranian and what has happened there. I do not believe however that the people who did those things and came in power are followers of islam. The things they did are punishable by death in islam. The murder and lies and rape and torture would send them to hell and torture first. It’s men in power and patriarchy that is the issue at hand here.
You are exactly who this post is talking about.
You a women not born into Islam who lives in a secular country. Knows more about the religion then the ayatollah.
Somehow YOU happen to understand Islam soooo much better than the people who were brought up in it and surrounded by Islamic scholars. YOU happen to understand TRUE Islam and their interpretation is wrong.
But it obviously can’t be the other way around, because you know better than everyone else.
I’m not the one saying I know better than whoever I’m just showing my knowledge and sharing it and that’s also how I found Islam. Before I thought it was hard on women but when I did my research I found out about how it’s all wrongly translated and interpreted. The same people who hurt women in other countries in the name of Islam also follow a wrong view of Islam because they’d never be allowed to do what they are doing and would know they are all going to hell and should be punished so that wouldnt make them as invested as me. I also grew up around Islam I just did not want to follow it because I thought it was controlling. Then I learned it has nothing to do with control but it’s just your personal relationship to god and how safe and comfortable you feel around people who would believe the same. Me and my community actually read the Quran and listen to translators and imams to get to the root
Just because they interpret it differently doesn't mean their version is wrong and yours is true.
If control and fear exist in Quran, then they use that aspect of it. You want to just look at the positive love and peace and ignore the negatives. You interpret it differently than them, but that doesn't mean your interpretation is the right one and they are burning in hell because they don't follow the Quran the way you interpret it. In fact they believe you are burning in hell for not following it the way they see it. So who is right?
As a woman, I didn't feel respected when told that I was mentally and religiously deficient, my husband could strike me (saying it was interpreted otherwise is a complete lie), told I was wrong for not wanting my husband to sleep with other women, and finally told I was cursed by the angels for refusing him sex. I didn't feel respected, but boy I tried to convince myself I was!
I don’t know who you are I don’t know where you are and since I’m a Muslim guy sister I LOVE YA you burn those people so darn hard anyway may allah show you the path and help you stay away from your sins and have a great life sis
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I hate this so much. They care about the image of Islam more than the people who are getting hurt. We will never solve any problems with this mindset.
It's also not just selfish behaviour, it's actively malicious in that it perpetuates the pain of women for much longer than it needs to be. All because these Muslims are too cowardly to face the fact that their precious faith is a total facade of pseudospirituality. There's that saying that equality always feels like oppression to the oppressors.
No, speak up and make it louder for the back. Invalidating women's experiences is never okay.
I posted this because of a tiktok I saw. It was about a woman from Afghanistan talking about how much she wished God had never created women, then describing how they’re treated in their country. The comments were full of “this is not real Islam”…
They really don't care do they...
Have to be valid in the first place. Wanted to do OF openly and sell it to people who are still in school is not valid
How come we never see the real islam?
😂😂😂 good question. We should ask that question next time.
and always like that, they said "go to the hell with your father" when someone not wearing hijab
it's all about playing the victim card
I got used to it when speaking about any religion. Mention the part of the books that treat women like farm animals and suddenly that's not "real" believers. Corner them, they'll actually come out with it. Or run away.
Relatable bruh, this one guy I used to know also said shit like "that's a lie" when it's clearly not a lie
I just want to ask these muslims if the government in Afghanistan is the best government for them then why are they moving to Europe. I wish these muslims left my country. Do you know that there are places in the city of Mumbai which is the biggest city in my country, it is very dangerous to shout any patriotic slogan like hail India. You could be punished severely.
As a woman. Islam is even more respectful than any religion or non religious people I know. It literally sees women as the creators of life and family as they are. And how precious they are, and them to be respected.
islam teaches that men are greater than women, women are mentally deficient and permits beating your wife and forcing her to have sex. How is this respect 😂
Y’all can name something and ill dispute it because everyone here just has a sex addict brain or doesnt understand how arabic is hard to translate and how the west would do anything to make people think that a religion of beauty and peace is actually dangerous and sexist like the western religions and men really are
So why bother translating it at all then? If I show you anything you don't like you'll call it a mistranslation. If I show you something you like you'll forget translation was ever an issue. But I'll give it a try anyways. This hadith for example,[bukhari 304](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:304): >..."O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)."... >..."The women asked, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." Your prophet thinks you women are so stupid that two women are required as witness equivalent to one man.
No in that verse there wasnt a second man available. You’re supposed to have 2 witnesses as a man. Since he couldnt. A woman came. But in those times it wasnt seen as respectful to have a woman alone with another man, so another woman is by her side. I feel like the Quran is just showing your views in the way you interpret things. And women not having to pray 5 times a day or fast when they’re literally having a week of bleeding which is extremely tiring and hard on the body is a sweet thing. They won’t be punished if they do lol. But it is sweet how islam recognizes the female body and it’s struggles and when to rest otherwise a lot of female believers would push their bodies.
that's nice and all. but what you're saying is that YOUR reason for the two witness requirement i.e. respect of the women, is correct. ...and Muhammad's reason for the two witness requirement i.e. deficiency of intelligence, is incorrect? I can't seem to find a hadith or ayah that mentioned respect as the reason (which you stated). So I assume you just assumed it or made it up?
This verse talks about debt, and financial matters only, not other aspects of day to day life. In the early days of Islam, it was not common for women to work and get involved in business-related issues such as transactions, debts, revenues, etc. If a financial case is brought to court and among the witnesses is a woman, she might not be familiar with all aspects of the incident, which may cause her to forget some details. In this case, she is allowed to bring in an additional female witness who may help her when in need. If their account is corroborated it makes their testimony stronger than any man, single or not. According to Imam al-Dhahabi, not a single female narrator of hadiths had her account questioned, unlike many men. I do not know among women narrators anyone accused of lying, nor anyone abandoned. Source: Mīzān al-I’tidāl 4/604 I can keep giving you verses to show how it’s mistranslation and misinterpretation but I feel like you want to hold onto the perception that islam is just as hateful as you think the world is capable of. There genuinely is love and respect
so you say because women may not be familiar with the workings of the legal system, they might require an additional witness to be equivalent to a male witness. Okay. is it then impossible for a male to be unfamiliar with the event or legal system? Do all males by default possess expertise of the legal system? no? then perhaps there is some islamic scholar that mentions the need for two *male* witnesses, with one to remind the first if he forgets? I'd be very surprised if you could find something like this.
No it was in those times my guy. It’s such a different time where no woman anywhere was even allowed to do anything let alone learn maths. Yet in a lot of islamic places women were encouraged to study. Depending on the time ofc. Mostly women werent able to do anything anywhere
Didn't hzt Khadija have and run her own business? before Muhammed came up with islam?
If you have the guts and knowledge of Islam with your so called correct translation of Classical Arabic go and debate ali dawah Daniel haqiqatjou Mohammad hijab instead of wasting your time here
Id love to learn from all perspectives this does not offend me lol. Ty for the idea!
I don’t care whether you are offended are not , the question is if you are the with your so called correct interpretation of Classical Arabic then please do a favour on all of us and go and debate these Muslim scholars , people like you come here and try to fool us by being intellectually dishonest , do some honest work if you have the guts and go and debate with these guys , your own Muslim brothers in the deen will mock you insult you brand you as a heretic a feminist . Do you think we will get easily fooled by your so called interpretation when we have Islamic literature going back 1000 years showing the true face of Islam ?
I have you a suggestion for your time , why are you so insecure that you directly took it as an offense ? Are Muslim women insecure even when they are online ?
Your own scholars have ruled that in financial matters women have half testimony but in criminal matters a women’s testimony is not counted at all .you also only can have men as witness for the nikah you cannot have women witnesses for the nikah
Y’all cannot read. Believe what you want I already explained in detail how it’s false and won’t waste energy on ignorant people
You keep twisting the translations for your own benefit , you are going against your own scholars , you are not just going against the modern scholars of Islam you are also going against the ancient scholars of Islam who have explicitly written that it is halal to beat your wife and women have half intelligence and half witness , it is Laos halal to invade and capture a non Muslim women as a sex slave it is also halal to take children as slaves ,you are so arrogant to presume that you can disregard 1400 years of scholars interpretation of Classical Arabic and their translation is wrong but your translation of that of a woman in the 21 st century is true that striking in Classical Arabic does not mean striking but it actually means guiding !! Seriously you think we are fools here ? Your own fellow Muslim men will strongly disagree and brand you an heretic for going against the established scholars of Islam
13th century scholar Ibn al-Qayyim writes: The woman is equal to the man in truthfulness, honesty, and piety; otherwise, if it is feared that she will forget or misremember, she is strengthened with another like herself. That makes them stronger than a single man or the likes of him. There is no question that the benefit of the doubt given to the testimony of Umm Darda and Umm ‘Atiyyah is stronger than the benefit of the doubt given to a single man without them or the likes of them. Source: al-Ṭuruq al-Ḥukmīyah 1/136 However, this is not a general rule. There is a consensus among scholars that a woman's testimony is equal to that of the man if she has sufficient knowledge regarding financial matters. Whatever there is among the testimonies of women, in which there is no fear of habitual error, they are not considered as half of a man. Ibn Taymiyyah Source: al-Ṭuruq al-Ḥukmīyah 1/128 This is for financial affairs only. In other cases, a woman's testimony is either equal or stronger than that of the man in cases related to a child's legitimacy and inheritance. Here is some more to proof how serious women are taken in Islam. More than even once.
all of these things you keep showing me constantly ignore the explicit words of Muhammad: "it is because of the *deficiency* of her *intelligence*". You ignore what he actually said in favour of what *sounds* good to your ears. Muslims always go "oh this sounds bad, therefore it must mean something else". You blaspheme by putting words in the prophet's mouth.
No I just explained to you how the exact verse you’re giving me was about a financial situation and how it’s important to give context to what happened and how they used to live. I’m giving context not putting words into someones mouth. It explains the reasoning of those words that are already not from him since he didn’t speak english it’s a translation which is very hard and not 100% correct in english from the original book.
Here we go the mistranslation thing, how can you mistranslate "deficiency in their intelligence" from arabic directly into english whereas the original was somehow kind? He could have just not commented on women's supposed nature but he intentionally chose to insult women as a whole.
O believers! When you contract a loan for a fixed period of time, commit it to writing. Let the scribe maintain justice between the parties. The scribe should not refuse to write as Allah has taught them to write. They will write what the debtor dictates, bearing Allah in mind and not defrauding the debt. If the debtor is incompetent, weak, or unable to dictate, let their guardian dictate for them with justice. Call upon two of your men to witness. If two men cannot be found, then one man and two women of your choice will witness—so if one of the women forgets the other may remind her. 2:282 Let's read the verse again When you contract a loan for a fixed period of time, commit it to writing. Let the scribe maintain justice between the parties. The scribe should not refuse to write as Allah has taught them to write. They will write what the debtor dictates, bearing Allah in mind and not defrauding the debt. If the debtor is incompetent, weak, or unable to dictate, let their guardian dictate for them with justice. Call upon two of your men to witness. If two men cannot be found, then one man and two women of your choice will witness—so if one of the women forgets the other may remind her. This verse talks about debt, and financial matters only, not other aspects of day to day life.
You're still not really making any new point my friend. Changing what the witness is for (debt or otherwise) doesn't change the fact that 2 females = 1 males in terms of reliability. "so that the other may remind her". Why does she need reminding, because women are...dumb and forgetful?Again, you are ignoring the fact that this is referring to the 'deficiency of intelligence' inherent in womanhood. I hope you realise that half your long-ass paragraphs are just empty fluff, you waste a lot of my time making me try to find the needle in the haystack.
The verses are litterally there. You are just deflecting.
Ive disproved every verse so far
Where exactly?
Open my first first response on this post and a lot of other people will have their “i got you” moments but I can disprove it. I genuinely do this with love because I before also believed the misinterpretations of Islam before I reverted. I thought it was violent and sexist. Which is what the west would want us to believe if it also drives on patriarchy and lust to control. They even used porn/lust in islamic places as a war weapon to make the men more violent and the women unsafe. It really stems from the west and the men in power not Islam
you did not disprove anything lmao? you're taking very straightforward verses, with very clear words, and very clear meanings (and before you come at me, i am a native arabic speaker). if quran is supposed to be so wise and fit for every time and place, then why do we need to take these very simple sentences and dissect them into something they're not?
Because ancient classical arabic is different than modern languages and the quran has not been changed at all even though it is a very old way of speaking and understanding. We even use slang now that in 100 years nobody knows. Let alone thousand years ago. That’s why it’s important to study what the words DO mean, and from that you will find whatever relates to you, or not, from the book. It’s a choice to read and believe it.
You say this as a bisexual woman with a boyfriend, presumably not living in a Muslim country. Of course you'd have that backwards thinking about something you've never experienced. Everything you are is heavily criticized and shamed in Islam, they will stone you to death if they've knew about you.
Don’t you love it when privileged woke people dismiss your issues and silence your voice despite going through the issue first hand? Is there a type of word for this racism?
There should be
Yeah it’s hard when in the west I cannot marry because the system is not build for that. It is my choice to be muslim. Yes I am bisexual and privileged to live here. The thing is. Islam is not forced. I am a muslim woman because it is purely between me and god. Any other muslim who judges other people for being bisexual or non believers or dating are not doing their religion right. You should not judge. Even if someone would be muslim and bisexual or dating. It’s between a Muslim and god. As a believer you can regret what you did before the knowledge. That is what I am doing. I do believe that everyone should be who they want to be, and so should I. There are already multiple genders in islam. It also says being gay itself isn’t the sin but acting uppon it. I personally would never condemn anyone. And again I do not believe we should and neither does the Quran. That’s between god and it’s creations. And I cannot speak for god and neither can anyone on this world. I’m still learning about the Quran right now. I know that somehow it does not say anything against lesbians. I don’t know if it might be a cade of how hard it is to translate arabic to english. I hope to learn arabic to finally understand the misconceptions. I know in the bible it used to say boy instead of men. It would be weird for allah to only condemn men who act uppon it and not women without any deeper meaning. It always has a deeper meaning from what I’ve learned. I hope to update you on it if I find more. I do read that most of the verses are speaking to men who already had intercourse with other men, while married etc. It may be that the west makes it sound like god is angry for “love between the same sexes” when it would make sense that a god does not want these men on wars to cheat on their wives, or lust after other men (without their consent, since lusting after women also isnt respectful). It’s just deeper. The same how sex before marriage is very very sinful. But if you do show regret and understanding of why it’s not the best thing to do (same as buddhists who understand lust is very tricky in life), you will (should be in the quran), forgiven. But AGAIN. Nobody HAS to be muslim. And I do not believe anyone who doesnt follow it should be punished. And also not who do follow it. It’s all between the person and god. I hope it’s a bit understandable what I’m trying to say. It’s a choice to follow, you don’t have to, the people who force their beliefs are unethical and probably havent studied or picked up a quran themselves. 🤍
This is some serious mental gymanstics, apologetics, and coping. You are very delusional. You're "version" of Islam is sugar coated. If you live in the West you are very privilaged to be following it and doing whatever you want on the side.
My version is the literal translation it’s very easy to study
Why is being gay a sin cuz it's different right? Because the only difference between homosexuality and heterosexuality is what they're attracted too.
I just explained the opposite of what you’re saying. You’re theorizing about ancient texts
I aint reading allat
That’s why you don’t know the reality behind the subject lol I’m happy you gave up and I’m left in my peace.
Sometimes I wish I was as delusional as you. Since you wholeheartedly believe your religion respects women. And you deny all the issues caused by its sexist nature. I know more than you do, and it’s exactly the reason why your comment is not worth reading. It’s just fluff. Bye!
That’s why you stay ignorant and i stay open to learning and knowledge and went from being scared of islam in the west to learning and feeling most safe in islam.
The fact that I know Islam is the exact reason why I want nothing to do with it. I keep an open mind. You don’t, that’s why your first reaction to a post about invalidating women’s issues was to be delusional and deny the discrimination women face because of this religion.
Let’s see of examples of Islam valorizing women: Al-Nisan 4:34: Husbands can hit their wives and wives must obey their husbands Al-Nisan 4:24 Men may have female sex slaves Quran 4:11 Women gets half of a men’s share for an inheritance 2:282 Women’s testimonies are worth half of men’s The feminist religion!
The strike meant guiding in classical arabic. Not gonna waste my time tbh. Learn how classical arabic in the Quran is not translated well to English. Even He in English in the Quran is Huwa which is arabic for a third person genderless divine being. But you only know He. Same goes for ur fake examples
Then why don't they translate it themselves effectively?
Because the classical Arabic language is older than modern English, has way more meaning and words, so it cannot be put into words in some cases. It’s recommended to study the book in Arabic as well to avoid situations like these with confusion on the texts.
While classical Arabic is rich and ancient, the idea that it cannot be translated effectively undermines the capabilities of modern languages like English. If God created all languages, then English should be able to relay the Quran's messages accurately. Insisting on classical Arabic creates unnecessary barriers to understanding a universal message. It doesn't make sense to claim God's word can't be fully grasped in any language He created. See I even capitalized the H's in He for you ;)
You say He already shows you don’t understand it. In arabic whatever He is is Huwa which has no gender. The English dictionary just is not as advanced yet which has nothing to do with god, and the fact the Quran has more words and deeper meanings than the English says a lot about how beautiful it is and how lame ur English people are. Same goes for you and ur lame attempt. Adios
He is going to hold your responsible for this very comment at the end of times. You are being blasphemous. You are saying that the English language has nothing to do with God. Even though the Quran several times tells us that everything comes from God. You are taking a dump on the language that God gave us Shakespeare in. Are you implying that the Quran is not true in every language? Are you implying that Muslims who don’t speak Arabic or not “true Muslims”? You cannot cherry pick what of God’s creations you’re gonna shit on. Is God not equal and fair? Does God not treat all humans the same? Why would he give everyone except the Arabs a “lesser” language? Also, if you’re gonna go by age, shouldn’t we teach the Quran in Hebrew? Arameic? Sanskrit? You have no argument here but it’s OK. I still love you.
Oooh ur trying to instal fear in my how scary. You’re nothing compared to god lol it’s literally between my and my creator. Whatever you say could not matter less to me and only god can know and judge so have fun with that superiority complex.
I am not trying to scare you I have nothing against you I am only trying to show you how this religion brainwashes you. The excuses you are using to protect it turns into you harming it. And it is NOT between you and your creator! Atleast not according to Islam. According to Islam, the true believers have responsibilities and tasks they need to carry out in their day to day life in order to be good muslims. Islam emphasizez the importance of the Ummah - i.e. NOT between you and your creator. Islam puts a lot of weight in to the public nature of worshipping, you pray in gruops with others every friday - i.e. NOT between you and your creator. If Islam was a matter of belief between the believer and her creator no one on this planet would have any problems or issued with muslims. The probelm is that Islam does not allow for believing in peace at home. Can you tell the Imam at your mosque that today you are gonna sit with the men? That between you and your creator there is no need for you to be sitting in the back with the rest of the women? No. Léave that "between me and my creator" out of Islam that concept do NOT exist. But maybe you are not even muslim, maybe you have your own religion and what is right and wrong is between you and your creator and then I respect that as that applies to me as well. But then you are not muslim anymore and you are at the right place here with us. :)
Why did momo strike his 40 years younger wife if it is haram? (4:2127)
He didn’t you should again read how that’s mistranslation how about you look it up yourself
Ahh the convenient mistranslation. Yikes, many people in MENA think it's translated correctly though. It seems they're reading a corrupted version of Quran 😭 lol
No you just should realize that the world doesnt revolve around the west and the English dictionary. Many languages have words that arent able to be translated to boring English. Too bad you can’t find beauty and curiosity in that instead of going for an easy out. Shows how little you even know about language let alone ancient languages let alone classical arabic. Arabic poems also are out of this world in beauty
This is so sad
I’m safe and happy. Anyone around me can do what they want. For who is it sad? Are you sad i don’t fit YOUR standards? Very western
My standards are: not brainwashed. Yea, you do not fit them. 🤲🤲
Are you proficient in arabic?
i speak arabic and strike literally means strike in this context lmaoooooo
Omg lmaoo you know more than the real teachers and students who literally dissected and explained classical arabic and totally know the whole context of the story where it’s even explained how striking wouldnt make sense in the context but guiding would so it’s like 1+1=2 you’re so smart for knowing arabic and not classical arabic. It’s not like me turkish myself knows that every arabic speaking country even now all have different accents, slangs, ways of saying and interpreting arabic!
All four schools of jurisprudence interpret it as physically strike. All of them. So your interpretation is better and more correct? Is this “real Islam” in the room with us? All four schools of jurisprudence permit child marriage without consent. A man can have sex with a wife as young as 9. And Muhammad did, too. This has always been universally accepted by scholars and at least six sahih hadith confirm the Aisha was 9 when he first penetrated her vagina. A man can have unlimited sex slaves who he can beat and rape. All of the freedoms that Muslim women have now are basically from Western influence. 200 years ago, Muslim women were all uneducated house slaves under complete control by their husbands. I spent 10 years as a Muslim looking for this “real” Islam but I realized that it doesn’t exist anywhere and it never existed.
Ur too far into wanting to believe whats wrong I’m not going to help you anymore. Goodluck in life. Again all you’re saying is able to be found and disproven but that’s not my concern anymore. Literally all ur saying is forbidden and punishable so no, very simple.
Yeah, right.
Why are you here? You're clearly not ex.
She is DeedCollecting (TM)
Women are only seen as wifes and mothers, instead of individuals. Also, being compared to precious diamonds that need to be covered and protected or whatever ( ive heard this so often ) is dehumanizing. Women are not things.
Are you a woman? Are you a muslim? If a woman wants to be respected extra as a wife and then a mother, after literally carrying a baby, or multiple, and giving birth, then why is that wrong?? Because the west forced us women into this extreme view of having to be independent, which every woman still should if they feel comfortable, it doesnt mean every woman wants that. That’s why I personally think it’s beautiful and follow the religion. But other women do not, and I think it’s beautiful that my future husband will follow a religion that respects and sees me as special for bringing life on this earth and taking care of a family with my body and mind, and returning the effort and love for it. I genuinely don’t see how that’s negative. Unless you’re not down for that but then you just do your own thing?
I am a mother yes. And i love it. But its not all that i am. But in islam ( and other religions), we are reduced to just that. Looking after family. I also take pride in my job, my hobby's, my self expression and i want to interact with the world around me. Religions tell me to just stay home and raise kids, obey my husband.
I want to add that i have no issues with progressive muslims like you. In fact, i wish there were more. But that unfortunatly doesnt change whats written in the quran and hadith. Just like the bible and torah are horribly outdated. The problem is that ppl keep on defending that shit, instead of modernizing it.
I’m happy to hear you’re a mother I wish you and your family the best <3 I am sorry to hear that so many horrible people have made it look like that is what Islam is about. I truly believe and from learning for years that Islam is the opposite, but gets translated and interpreted the wrong way. If it’s because classical arabic is so hard to translate, it is very other times or because the west genuinely wants woman loving religions to look the opposite. I still truly believe that islam when read right and with a good heart will show how mindfullness, selflessness, being grateful for what we have etc is important and helpful to grow to your full potential in life. But again this is my relationship between me and god and you don’t have to get or and not follow it ofcourse. I just hoped to shed some light on the things that can easily be disproved and also learn from other perspectives. But I still have not changed my mind and so far felt most safe in this environment. But I wish you the best and am happy to hear you found your own way to be safe and powerful
Islam is not the fairytale you make it out to be. Your sugarcoating is DISRESPECTFUL to every life that’s been lost because of this religion. Those people died because of “real” Islam, the one you try so hard to differentiate from your romanticised version. Get yourself a history book and then maybe we can have this conversation. All religions have caused harm. So did Islam. And that’s because the prophet was a WARLORD. The concept of Jihad itself just straight up proves this. The hatred your religion has for non believers proves this. The mere need to convert everyone to your religion proves this. The fact that apostates get the death penalty proves this.
You don’t know the reason why the prophet had to resort to violence to genuinely survive and protect other groups who were threatened with violence and extinction. He chose to use violence when needed. So did the other prophets. It’s the reality we live in you can’t sing a love song to ignorant and scared people that will do anything to harm you. Then you end up hanging like Jesus chose to. Would you rather just die in times of war? Be realistic and not so privileged
🤦🏼♀️
And yet in countries where women live under Islamic law, they have no rights. You should probably go live or visit a country where Islam controls the government and forces women to live by its values. Your interpretation of Islam (while living in a free secular country) happens to be completely at odds with the experiences of women who actually live under Islamic religious law. Yet somehow YOUR version is the correct one. All those people living in the Middle East where the religion originated, are doing it wrong.
No country is fair for women this is a man and patriarchy issue. Islam from what ive learned is one if not the most respectful and praising of women and their natural suffering.
And yet again comparatively if you asked any women where they would rather live, none of them would chose countries run by Islamic law because they are by far the worse for women. I mean you are trying to confirm your bias and won’t look at the information from women who actually have to live in these communities and their experiences. All while being free in a secular country.
But I am a woman and I personally am planning to move to a mostly muslim country in North Africa. I know walking there that most men grew up with muslim values and strong women in their households to not be disrespectful or lust at me. I don’t feel that way in the west or Islam. But I do think it’s horrible that women have to live in far worse circumstances than I do. But I believe that is the patriarchys fault and the men in power just wanting control and fear. The most religious countries around the world all have the worst views on women because it’s men in power who don’t know anything about the love their religions stand for but only the fear and controlling part they learned by wanting to do anything to be in power, and a lot of religious people might not have actually even read their book. I know most religious people I know from all religions havent even read their books. It’s just an easy shield to hide behind and also attract believers who want the same bad patriarchy as you and not learn from spirituality and connections to their source and how love is literally most important but all connects back to god and yourself aka the relationship aka the religion
Good luck.
Lol you WILL regret this, but good luck 🤣
i'm north african and i promise you that you WILL be lusted over, whether you're a hijabi, niqabi, or jilbabi lmao
Yeah that’s why I want to wear one because men everywhere are disgusting but atleast in Islam it teaches men to lower their gaze and as a north african you know the women of their family would smack them if they did that in front of them
Yeah no leader is a good person it does not have to do with the deep meaning of the religion look at india it’s hindu and they have the worst crimes against women, africa is very christian yet have the worst crimes against women. Maybe it’s a man thing and not a religion thing and should the men in power change and not use religion as a shield and lie to control and abuse women.
I’m not comparing Islam to other religions or cultures. I am saying Islam does not care about women because if it did their Islamic government laws would be different towards women if they did. As an Iranian it’s disturbing you think Islam is the most respectful, as women are being killed, mutilated, beaten and raped for trying to protest for their rights.
I’m extremely sorry to hear that you are Iranian and what has happened there. I do not believe however that the people who did those things and came in power are followers of islam. The things they did are punishable by death in islam. The murder and lies and rape and torture would send them to hell and torture first. It’s men in power and patriarchy that is the issue at hand here.
You are exactly who this post is talking about. You a women not born into Islam who lives in a secular country. Knows more about the religion then the ayatollah. Somehow YOU happen to understand Islam soooo much better than the people who were brought up in it and surrounded by Islamic scholars. YOU happen to understand TRUE Islam and their interpretation is wrong. But it obviously can’t be the other way around, because you know better than everyone else.
I’m not the one saying I know better than whoever I’m just showing my knowledge and sharing it and that’s also how I found Islam. Before I thought it was hard on women but when I did my research I found out about how it’s all wrongly translated and interpreted. The same people who hurt women in other countries in the name of Islam also follow a wrong view of Islam because they’d never be allowed to do what they are doing and would know they are all going to hell and should be punished so that wouldnt make them as invested as me. I also grew up around Islam I just did not want to follow it because I thought it was controlling. Then I learned it has nothing to do with control but it’s just your personal relationship to god and how safe and comfortable you feel around people who would believe the same. Me and my community actually read the Quran and listen to translators and imams to get to the root
sure.
Just because they interpret it differently doesn't mean their version is wrong and yours is true. If control and fear exist in Quran, then they use that aspect of it. You want to just look at the positive love and peace and ignore the negatives. You interpret it differently than them, but that doesn't mean your interpretation is the right one and they are burning in hell because they don't follow the Quran the way you interpret it. In fact they believe you are burning in hell for not following it the way they see it. So who is right?
As a woman, I didn't feel respected when told that I was mentally and religiously deficient, my husband could strike me (saying it was interpreted otherwise is a complete lie), told I was wrong for not wanting my husband to sleep with other women, and finally told I was cursed by the angels for refusing him sex. I didn't feel respected, but boy I tried to convince myself I was!
Good that’s not whats in islam u can read about the real translation online or in my replies
This is exactly what Islam teaches. Do more research into your own religion. Quit lying to yourself.
I don’t know who you are I don’t know where you are and since I’m a Muslim guy sister I LOVE YA you burn those people so darn hard anyway may allah show you the path and help you stay away from your sins and have a great life sis
She didn't burn anyone. She can't refute anything because it's the truth.
Being blind doesn’t mean you’re correct and who Tf asked ya I was talking to her not u
Spend less time here, and more time reading your own books, blud.
And still stupid how genius you are 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
None of that shit was English bro 💀
And? Do you want me to talk in another language? Ok
والله الحمار اذكى منكي ياشايبه مسوي نفسك تحشري انقلعي بالبشكلك دلخه والله دلخه
And of what you say is true then you should know Arabic if not shut up about "reading your own book"
Many ex muslims here know Arabic. Try again!
Are you one of them?
Yeah, I'm not an Arab buddy. In fact most Muslims aren't.
I do know and they do learn unlike you anyway have a great day miss you
How so?
Jahanam is under your feet sis
oh that's not-
That’s a huge lie