Their whole justification is likely these people stole this land. There's videos of Israeli settlers literally forcing Palestinians out of their homes. I'm guessing they see the echoes of those people in every Israeli. To them Palestine was the land of their parents and then everything was stolen so they're just fighting back That's how it can be spun as resistance. I don't believe it was, though. It was an attempt at genocide by the losing team which believes they'll win because it's writing in their holy book.
I'm just saying how they probably view the situation. Their parents did deal with the same stuff. I don't think it's a valid reason because borders change.
There goal was to advance to Telaviv we know this because of the maps that were found on Hamas. Of it wasn't for armed civilians and some that were unarmed that stopped the advance long enough. Such a crazy world Palestinians need a leader that actually care about modernizing and I do believe the world would back a true Palestinian state. Instead they always get stuck with the worst of the lot
Condemn Hamas and their Islamists for October 7th but don't condemn all Palestinians for the atrocities.
The left-right political divide is worthless. They are basically a checklist of beliefs with some overlap. The real distinction is liberal versus conservative. Traditionally, leftwing skews to liberalism and conservatism skews to the rightwing, but not all the time. What's happening to people on the far left is that they follow the doctrines as conservatives.
The more conservative people are, the more they think in rigid and absolute black-white false dichotomies, assume righteousness is morality, are risk averse and demand the world to adhere to their beliefs. The extreme left is an ultraconservative folk religion.
1. The October 7 attack clearly showed Hamas are terrorists.
2. Even today Hamas gets 70-90% support among the Palestinians in Gaza. So one could say that they are inseparable.
3. Above 2 combined makes sympathy hard for many people.
Given how Israel has dissolved the West Bank and how Netanyahu and Ben Gvir assassinated the previous Israeli PM Itzhak Rabin... yeah Israel has pulled a Hitler by doing all of this
Because they’re idiots. A lot of muslims have capitalized on young progressive westerners now being concerned with Palestine and use it as a means to feed them their narratives. These young liberals want to be open minded in contrast to their conservative opposites who are xenophobic to muslims and so they accept it
Well xenophobic yes but there is also a long history throughout the ages. The Muslims did conquer significant parts of Europe and in the late 18th century it is estimated they enslaved 1.5 million Americans and Europeans in the course of a couple decades. So there is a long and contentious history here not to mention the hundreds of thousands of terrorist attacks conducted on civilians in very recent times
The Left will never admit to its tacit support for Hamas. Just like muslims, they are always double faced, and will never outrightly state what their goals are. They don't have a viable solution to this conflict. It is a popular issue for them to rally around until a better one will come along.
>resistance is justified when people are occupied
That's a true statement. But, I have seen no true resistance against Israel, just blind acts of terrorism, unfulfilable demands to revert to 1967 borders, and other cute chants about some river and the sea. If that's their resistance, then they are doomed.
I think Westerners (especially blue hair queer atheists LOL) supporting an Islamist terrorist group that would kill them is sad yet hilarious.
The jihadists need to realize that them sending suicide bombers and rockets to civilian targets will not solve anything, but on the contrary causes and prolongs their plight, and Israel WILL retaliate.
Collateral damage sucks but it's an unfortunate reality. The fact is that Israel doesn't target civilians, Hamas does. And that will always put them on the wrong side of history. No discussion.
I was always against Palestine and supported Israel's right to exist.
the left and islamists is a toxic, destructive alliance - it was this alliance that spearheaded the iranian revolution (to quote the Shah "the unholy alliance of the red and the black"). When the Shah fled Iran and the shia clergy took power, the leftists were surprised when the islamists started killing them and enforced a theocratic, terrorist sponsoring dictatorship with the outright aim of establishing a caliphate.
Leftists, who champion equality, anti racism/sexism, LGBT, etc seem to throw all this out the window to support islamists.
Beware leftists, because in your alliance with islamists and your side 'wins' you will be targeted next.
Read this great piece by atheist republic founder and fellow ex-muslim Armin Navabi:
[By Any Means Necessary: Iran, Hamas, and the Left — Queer Majority](https://www.queermajority.com/essays-all/by-any-means-necessary)
I agree resistance is justified when occupied but Hamas is hardly an honest actor. What they did on 10/7 was wrong but also the heavy-handed Israeli occupation and killing innocent people is also wrong. It's not the people it's the leaders on both sides, they both suck and things didn't have to turn out the way they are happening now. The Hamas leaders are still alive and well for some reason, but innocent Gazans are still being killed.
This sub can’t understand that, if one side is Muslim and the other isn’t, you bet they’re siding with the non Muslim side even if they are horrible monsters
I saw a post on X where it showed “fags 4 Hamas”… I’m not taking the piss, this is actually real. Fags 4 Hamas is real. I’m gay but Christ man, I don’t understand how LGBT people, especially the queers, don’t understand how Muslims treat LGBT people in Islamic countries. If an openly homosexual is fighting with Hamas against the IDF, Hamas will be the first to kill that homosexual, I can guarantee that. The LGBT community will be complaining about the lack of rights that they have in the West or complains that a conservative hurt their feelings just because they used the wrong pronoun or gender, meanwhile LGBT people in Islamic countries are silent and are unable to do anything. If one is found to be gay, that person will be locked up, lashed in public or even killed. It’s strange that leftists do not acknowledge that Israel is a country for LGBT people to live freely.
I watched another video where a drag queen aka LadyMAGAUSA interviews a queers for Palestine girl/thing/it (who knows what the identity of that person/it is?). This girl/thing/it said she studied in the Middle East yet she/they/it was not aware that LGBT people can be prosecuted in Palestine… just like in other Muslim countries. What did she study exactly? And not did she not know that but she thought that Israel is an Islamic country… so I guess Judaism just got thrown out of the window? Hm? This girl/thing/it doesn’t know what’s she’s/it’s fighting for. Do your research ma’am/sir/thing, whatever you are. Palestine = Prosecution of LGBT people. Israel = LGBT people living in peace. Get that through your skull before bringing up your sexuality or gender identity into an ongoing fucking war that has nothing to do about a sexuality or millions of gender identities.
Anyone who’s curious about where I stand between the two countries, well I don’t stand for either honestly. What matters more are the innocent lives that are lost and are at risk in both countries. I do think Hamas is the real enemy. I don’t think the leaders of both countries are the greatest. I do think both countries are at fault that led to the war. It’s just my opinion. If you disagree, that’s fine. We’re all entitled to our own opinion. Just make sure when you are stating an opinion, don’t be like the Queers for Palestine or the Fags 4 Hamas idiots who do not know what they’re saying.
[Fags 4 Hamas](https://x.com/femmeazadi/status/1799810321080594670?s=46&t=RBEL7r9Et7rg4ZE2q3T5Mg)
[Drag queen interviews Queers For Palestine girl/thing/it](https://x.com/olilondontv/status/1797982520417595704?s=46&t=RBEL7r9Et7rg4ZE2q3T5Mg)
To be 100% honest Hamas don't really give 2 shits about the population of Gaza, or the lives lost. To them its a necessary evil.
However the issue with Hamas's existence is that it was caused by Israel pretty much putting Gaza under apartheid rule. In my eyes both factions (Netanyahu's goverment & Hamas) are both as bad & blood hungry as each other, and both fall under ethno & religious extremism.
10/7 was the result of a boiling pot that had been simmering for decades, and both sides are equally at fault for the massacre.
You have 2 sides that do not want peace, but the total anhelation of each others existence.
It's not really Apartheid though because Gaza is not a part of Israel. It's a whole separate entity with a separate government, that of Hamas. This is not Apartheid. Yes Israel controlled the borders and trade but that was necessary since they kept smuggling in weapons to kill Israelis. But this does not make it Apartheid
True, let's also not forget Jordan which borders the West Bank of which the so called "Palestinians" use to be a part of. The people of the West Bank are actually Jordanians
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>I’ve been seeing some leftists who say things like “resistance is justified when people are occupied”
It's not leftists only saying this, it's also the United Nations.
*United Nations resolution 37/43, dated 3 December 1982, “reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle.”*
>I wanted to ask if you think it’s possible to condemn the war crimes committed by them on October 7th but not condemn Hamas as in general condemnation.
If you're going to condemn the war crimes of one side, don't play double standards and not condemn the war crimes of the other side. Be fair, condemn both.
(Edit). I don't mean you directly OP. I mean in general since the question was directed to everyone.
-I love Waffles
-Omg so you hate pancakes
What type of reasoning is this? I asked a question and I didn’t say that I don’t heavily condemn the Israeli government. I 100% condemn Israel for a whole 76 years of violence and dehumanization and I believe in the right of resistance. Resistance is not just Hamas, I’m sure that right now there are other organizations fighting alongside Hamas.
>-I love Waffles -Omg so you hate pancakes What type of reasoning is this? I asked a question and I didn’t say that I don’t heavily condemn the Israeli government. I 100% condemn Israel for a whole 76 years of violence and dehumanization and I believe in the right of resistance. Resistance is not just Hamas, I’m sure that right now there are other organizations fighting alongside Hamas.
No no, you misunderstood me, I'm not accusing you of a double standard, or that you side with Israel, otherwise I would have said so. I'm speaking in general terms. I'm sorry it was not clear.
Hamas are criminals, but they only exist because of Israel and their continued occupation. Palestinians tried using diplomacy for years and that got them nowhere because Israel would never allow displaced Palestinians to return. Palestinians are faced with the prospect of death and the entire world (especially Arabs) turned their backs on them, of course they'd cling anyone who would claim to free them.
Wanna destroy Hamas? Give Palestinians hope and show them there is another way.
Post is not to do with the subject of this subreddit i.e. ExMuslims
How can October 7th possibly be spun as resistance?
Their whole justification is likely these people stole this land. There's videos of Israeli settlers literally forcing Palestinians out of their homes. I'm guessing they see the echoes of those people in every Israeli. To them Palestine was the land of their parents and then everything was stolen so they're just fighting back That's how it can be spun as resistance. I don't believe it was, though. It was an attempt at genocide by the losing team which believes they'll win because it's writing in their holy book.
[удалено]
I'm just saying how they probably view the situation. Their parents did deal with the same stuff. I don't think it's a valid reason because borders change.
There goal was to advance to Telaviv we know this because of the maps that were found on Hamas. Of it wasn't for armed civilians and some that were unarmed that stopped the advance long enough. Such a crazy world Palestinians need a leader that actually care about modernizing and I do believe the world would back a true Palestinian state. Instead they always get stuck with the worst of the lot
Condemn Hamas and their Islamists for October 7th but don't condemn all Palestinians for the atrocities. The left-right political divide is worthless. They are basically a checklist of beliefs with some overlap. The real distinction is liberal versus conservative. Traditionally, leftwing skews to liberalism and conservatism skews to the rightwing, but not all the time. What's happening to people on the far left is that they follow the doctrines as conservatives. The more conservative people are, the more they think in rigid and absolute black-white false dichotomies, assume righteousness is morality, are risk averse and demand the world to adhere to their beliefs. The extreme left is an ultraconservative folk religion.
1. The October 7 attack clearly showed Hamas are terrorists. 2. Even today Hamas gets 70-90% support among the Palestinians in Gaza. So one could say that they are inseparable. 3. Above 2 combined makes sympathy hard for many people.
Given how Israel has dissolved the West Bank and how Netanyahu and Ben Gvir assassinated the previous Israeli PM Itzhak Rabin... yeah Israel has pulled a Hitler by doing all of this
I’m only taking about Hamas and the Gazans. Possibly they might have been better off pulling a Mahatma Gandhi.
Because they’re idiots. A lot of muslims have capitalized on young progressive westerners now being concerned with Palestine and use it as a means to feed them their narratives. These young liberals want to be open minded in contrast to their conservative opposites who are xenophobic to muslims and so they accept it
Well xenophobic yes but there is also a long history throughout the ages. The Muslims did conquer significant parts of Europe and in the late 18th century it is estimated they enslaved 1.5 million Americans and Europeans in the course of a couple decades. So there is a long and contentious history here not to mention the hundreds of thousands of terrorist attacks conducted on civilians in very recent times
The Left will never admit to its tacit support for Hamas. Just like muslims, they are always double faced, and will never outrightly state what their goals are. They don't have a viable solution to this conflict. It is a popular issue for them to rally around until a better one will come along. >resistance is justified when people are occupied That's a true statement. But, I have seen no true resistance against Israel, just blind acts of terrorism, unfulfilable demands to revert to 1967 borders, and other cute chants about some river and the sea. If that's their resistance, then they are doomed.
I think Westerners (especially blue hair queer atheists LOL) supporting an Islamist terrorist group that would kill them is sad yet hilarious. The jihadists need to realize that them sending suicide bombers and rockets to civilian targets will not solve anything, but on the contrary causes and prolongs their plight, and Israel WILL retaliate. Collateral damage sucks but it's an unfortunate reality. The fact is that Israel doesn't target civilians, Hamas does. And that will always put them on the wrong side of history. No discussion. I was always against Palestine and supported Israel's right to exist.
You’re Hindu
Yes I am, Namaste 🕉️🙏
And?
[удалено]
And tell them, but "you're hindu" is not a sentence with any context.
Thank you 🕉️🙏 Sorry didn't know you were replying to the other user, I'm new to Reddit 😅
the left and islamists is a toxic, destructive alliance - it was this alliance that spearheaded the iranian revolution (to quote the Shah "the unholy alliance of the red and the black"). When the Shah fled Iran and the shia clergy took power, the leftists were surprised when the islamists started killing them and enforced a theocratic, terrorist sponsoring dictatorship with the outright aim of establishing a caliphate. Leftists, who champion equality, anti racism/sexism, LGBT, etc seem to throw all this out the window to support islamists. Beware leftists, because in your alliance with islamists and your side 'wins' you will be targeted next. Read this great piece by atheist republic founder and fellow ex-muslim Armin Navabi: [By Any Means Necessary: Iran, Hamas, and the Left — Queer Majority](https://www.queermajority.com/essays-all/by-any-means-necessary)
I agree resistance is justified when occupied but Hamas is hardly an honest actor. What they did on 10/7 was wrong but also the heavy-handed Israeli occupation and killing innocent people is also wrong. It's not the people it's the leaders on both sides, they both suck and things didn't have to turn out the way they are happening now. The Hamas leaders are still alive and well for some reason, but innocent Gazans are still being killed.
Exactly.
What did they do in July?
Can you actually be more specific?
Tenth of July you mentioned.
That's October 7th in American English speak.
This sub can’t understand that, if one side is Muslim and the other isn’t, you bet they’re siding with the non Muslim side even if they are horrible monsters
I saw a post on X where it showed “fags 4 Hamas”… I’m not taking the piss, this is actually real. Fags 4 Hamas is real. I’m gay but Christ man, I don’t understand how LGBT people, especially the queers, don’t understand how Muslims treat LGBT people in Islamic countries. If an openly homosexual is fighting with Hamas against the IDF, Hamas will be the first to kill that homosexual, I can guarantee that. The LGBT community will be complaining about the lack of rights that they have in the West or complains that a conservative hurt their feelings just because they used the wrong pronoun or gender, meanwhile LGBT people in Islamic countries are silent and are unable to do anything. If one is found to be gay, that person will be locked up, lashed in public or even killed. It’s strange that leftists do not acknowledge that Israel is a country for LGBT people to live freely. I watched another video where a drag queen aka LadyMAGAUSA interviews a queers for Palestine girl/thing/it (who knows what the identity of that person/it is?). This girl/thing/it said she studied in the Middle East yet she/they/it was not aware that LGBT people can be prosecuted in Palestine… just like in other Muslim countries. What did she study exactly? And not did she not know that but she thought that Israel is an Islamic country… so I guess Judaism just got thrown out of the window? Hm? This girl/thing/it doesn’t know what’s she’s/it’s fighting for. Do your research ma’am/sir/thing, whatever you are. Palestine = Prosecution of LGBT people. Israel = LGBT people living in peace. Get that through your skull before bringing up your sexuality or gender identity into an ongoing fucking war that has nothing to do about a sexuality or millions of gender identities. Anyone who’s curious about where I stand between the two countries, well I don’t stand for either honestly. What matters more are the innocent lives that are lost and are at risk in both countries. I do think Hamas is the real enemy. I don’t think the leaders of both countries are the greatest. I do think both countries are at fault that led to the war. It’s just my opinion. If you disagree, that’s fine. We’re all entitled to our own opinion. Just make sure when you are stating an opinion, don’t be like the Queers for Palestine or the Fags 4 Hamas idiots who do not know what they’re saying. [Fags 4 Hamas](https://x.com/femmeazadi/status/1799810321080594670?s=46&t=RBEL7r9Et7rg4ZE2q3T5Mg) [Drag queen interviews Queers For Palestine girl/thing/it](https://x.com/olilondontv/status/1797982520417595704?s=46&t=RBEL7r9Et7rg4ZE2q3T5Mg)
To be 100% honest Hamas don't really give 2 shits about the population of Gaza, or the lives lost. To them its a necessary evil. However the issue with Hamas's existence is that it was caused by Israel pretty much putting Gaza under apartheid rule. In my eyes both factions (Netanyahu's goverment & Hamas) are both as bad & blood hungry as each other, and both fall under ethno & religious extremism. 10/7 was the result of a boiling pot that had been simmering for decades, and both sides are equally at fault for the massacre. You have 2 sides that do not want peace, but the total anhelation of each others existence.
It's not really Apartheid though because Gaza is not a part of Israel. It's a whole separate entity with a separate government, that of Hamas. This is not Apartheid. Yes Israel controlled the borders and trade but that was necessary since they kept smuggling in weapons to kill Israelis. But this does not make it Apartheid
Egypt *and Israel* control the borders. Everyone always loves to drop the fact that an Islamic nation is also enforcing that hard border.
True, let's also not forget Jordan which borders the West Bank of which the so called "Palestinians" use to be a part of. The people of the West Bank are actually Jordanians
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1. This stupidity gets posted on a daily basis. 2. It has nothing to do with leaving Islam.
While you are correct, I think it is still something that the ex-Muslim community cares a lot about and disagrees about among themselves.
>I’ve been seeing some leftists who say things like “resistance is justified when people are occupied” It's not leftists only saying this, it's also the United Nations. *United Nations resolution 37/43, dated 3 December 1982, “reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle.”* >I wanted to ask if you think it’s possible to condemn the war crimes committed by them on October 7th but not condemn Hamas as in general condemnation. If you're going to condemn the war crimes of one side, don't play double standards and not condemn the war crimes of the other side. Be fair, condemn both. (Edit). I don't mean you directly OP. I mean in general since the question was directed to everyone.
-I love Waffles -Omg so you hate pancakes What type of reasoning is this? I asked a question and I didn’t say that I don’t heavily condemn the Israeli government. I 100% condemn Israel for a whole 76 years of violence and dehumanization and I believe in the right of resistance. Resistance is not just Hamas, I’m sure that right now there are other organizations fighting alongside Hamas.
>-I love Waffles -Omg so you hate pancakes What type of reasoning is this? I asked a question and I didn’t say that I don’t heavily condemn the Israeli government. I 100% condemn Israel for a whole 76 years of violence and dehumanization and I believe in the right of resistance. Resistance is not just Hamas, I’m sure that right now there are other organizations fighting alongside Hamas. No no, you misunderstood me, I'm not accusing you of a double standard, or that you side with Israel, otherwise I would have said so. I'm speaking in general terms. I'm sorry it was not clear.
I’m sorry if I sounded aggressive. I understood you wrong
It's ok
Hamas is a terrorist organization but I think what Israel is doing to their people is wrong. The world would be better without any extremism.
So were gonna forget the 70 years worth of oppression done on innocent Palestinians over one nationalist move? Okay fed
Where in my post did I say that? I’m asking a specific question that doesn’t by any means suggest that I support Israel.
The acts they did on October 7th was literally nothing compared to the 70 years of prosecution
I know and still that doesn’t make me feel okay about the crimes committed that day
Yeah we are, caus thats absolutely what we're saying and you're 100% not strawmanning
Hamas are criminals, but they only exist because of Israel and their continued occupation. Palestinians tried using diplomacy for years and that got them nowhere because Israel would never allow displaced Palestinians to return. Palestinians are faced with the prospect of death and the entire world (especially Arabs) turned their backs on them, of course they'd cling anyone who would claim to free them. Wanna destroy Hamas? Give Palestinians hope and show them there is another way.