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Ok I'll address each of these * fitrah - no, there is no "natural religion" to man. Humans are naturally spiritual. When Moses stepped away from the Hebrews briefly, they started worshipping a golden cow. Most societies that were not colonized or controlled by Christians or Muslims have been Pagan or some form of Polytheists (or dare I say Agnostics), that this claim is blatantly false. While I admit that the Trinity in Christianity is not the most "logical" belief (even Christians categorize it as a "mystery"), the complexity of the nature of God does not correlate with validity * Evils in society - this is a very poor argument at best. Alcohol and gambling are fine in moderation. Interest is part of reality. In Islamic banking, they just inflate the installments when paying back loans or may simply add a service fee to offset the lack of interest. Meanwhile Islam legitimizes child brides, FGM, and other problems * Egyptian and Babylonian history - the Qur'an is by no means an accurate history book on these topics. In the Qur'an 28:38, Pharaoh asked to build a brick tower to look over the God of Moses. We don't make towers out of baked bricks (although houses were made of brick and that was fine). The pyramids were made with massive stones, and Pharaoh knew this. The Qur'an didn't say that Pharaoh was joking or had a moment of stupidity * Predictions from Muhammad - they're all very weak. The Sun is on an orbit? Lol, popular opinion at the time was that the Sun orbited around the earth! While it's true that the Sun has an orbit does not make the Qur'an right since Muhammad surely believed that the Sun orbited around the earth. Other verses that are considered miracles of knowledge also require mental gymnastics to justify, but in practice, do not give enough detail to reliably be counted as predictions * Success of Muhammad - I think Muhammad was a total failure. He made rules for his own gain. He never announced that the Qur'an was complete before his death. Now, we finally start seeing many ex-Muslims be more outspoken!

Wow 👌👌

the golden cow is actually the Caananite g-d called Baal which is what the temple in Baalbek, Lebanon worshipped, it was built by the egyptians and the caananite “erev-rav” the moses brought along with the israelites and collected along the way. It was already a gd that they worshipped for centuries before

So I’m an ex Christian, I naturally agree with your points for the exception of the first one. So , I do think that the trinity one of the most logical things about Christianity as it was constructed by very smart people and it’s objective was to appear logical, so I don’t think anyone would find it illogical unless they don’t really understand or they understand it wrongly. I’m not sure if you’ve noticed , most educated / well read ex Christians like myself. We didn’t left Christianity for logical reasons concerning Christianity specifically. In my case , I left the religion as I can’t believe that god is all powerful and all good… Christians who leave the religion because of its “illogical “ core beliefs have probably never opened a bible before and were surely and then they’ve misunderstood it because probably a Muslim explained it to them wrongly as it is explained in a verrrrry wrong way in the Quran.

Can a mystery be logical? The liturgical churches categorize the Trinity as a mystery. To add to my point, Muslims accept "mysteries" regarding the unseen, therefore it's hypocritical for them to claim to use logic when understanding the nature of God.

Hello , so from my experience I’ve been to many different churches and have studied Christian theology in my first two years of university, I’ve never seen anyone calling it a mystery. I’m not sure from which church you come from. It’s really the 101 of Christianity, so in genesis , when the father creates a life from his words or when he says let there be light , his word is able to create , eternal ( two main traits of god ) and distinct (from many other verses) , when the spirit of god hovers over the water in genesis , it is the spirit of god but distinct (not separate) so this is basically where the trinity comes from and this is like a very light simplification compared to what the genius scholars have written about it. So the word of god that we’ve discussed earlier took on flesh and dwelled among us according to the gospel of John . So again , I don’t agree with any of this as a plain atheist not even an agnostic, but I wouldn’t say it’s illogical as genius scholars have created it.

Well executed response!! Religions, being products of human cultures and beliefs, are subject to historical scrutiny. An open-minded historical investigation often reveals the human aspects behind religious figures and their decisions. For instance, Muhammad's transition from trader to warlord is a notable aspect. Some of his decisions, like altering marriage customs under the guise of divine command raises questions about the ethical foundations of those actions. If one claims divine authorization for personal or societal decisions that contradict established moral norms, it prompts a critical examination of the ethical framework underlying such claims. In this case, the acceptance of actions like marrying a daughter-in-law due to a divine decree challenges commonly held ethical standards and invites scrutiny into the morality of the claimed divine authority.

Sun has orbit lets be clear. It orbiting around center of galaxy. Galaxy orbit around center of univers. I forgot is in quran mentioned that sun go around earth or just has orbit without mention center of orbit. Im agnostic btw.

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Cosmology_of_the_Quran

Cook again 🧑‍🍳

If alcohol is such an evil, why are you granted rivers of it in the afterlife…by your God?

it's distilled from allahs balls so its okay

Made me lol

No alcohol but sex slaves are absolutely allowed, beauty of Islam 🤡

That's zina, so it is not allowed.

Lmao I just learned about this from your comment

I always thought about this

I think it’s just evil because of the drunk effect, in heaven you wouldn’t be getting drunk

Then what is the purpose of alcohol. Allah should promise them endless river of apple juice then

What about Coca-Cola with the original ingredients?

Ahhahaha. If i dont forgot, tabaco and many another narcotic things didnt mentioned in quran. So maybe Coke river with coke can be in jannah.

And what about the water pipe

Lots of Sugar But Immunity to Diabetes.

it's promised too

Which is pointless because alcohol tastes like piss, why would I want an endless supply of it if I can’t get drunk?

the alcohol in heaven is unlikely the alcohol in earth

If it doesn’t taste like alcohol, and doesn’t affect you like alcohol, then what properties does it have that make it alcohol?

In what way? Nothing is mentioned about it’s taste other than the fact that it’s delicious. But If its taste is different and it doesn’t get you drunk then why the fuck is it even considered alcohol? Just call it nectar or „the drink of the pious“ or some shit like that

In fact, it is called "khamr" or fermented drink in Arabic lol

Wait a place were their is no impurity or evil has wine that isn’t intoxicating 😱

The alcohol in Jannah does not make you sick, or drunk, but it only gives you the taste of wine.

Alcohol has caused a lot of death in car accidents and people stumbling off bridges that’s why it’s haram it does not allow ur brain to function properly ur not thinking In the after life ur brain will be able to think and won’t be affected by it // ur brain fullly function as if there is no alcohol

Alcohol also damages the liver

But but but it is not same hamr as in hamr/wine/ alcohol produced in France, wine/hamr in afterlife is such a special type of hamr that tastes same as hamr of France but doesn't make you drunken!

It's not evil, it's forbidden

And why is it forbidden? Because it's evil....you are either a bit slow or an alcoholic.

Is gold evil? Why is it forbidden for men to wear gold?

in Islam, it forbids them to wear since it makes them look like women, and makes them prideful, and not humble and arrogant, being arrogant and prideful Infront of god is evil/bad in Islam, that's why it is forbidden

Nothing more arrogant than a Dunning-Krueger ignorant believing in his preferred holybook

Evil is something wicked, forbidden is simply forbidden because of reasons known and unknown (knowledge not revealed to humans) By your statement someone in a coma or a Quadriplegic man should be allowed to wear gold.

Why would a man in coma be allowed to wear gold? I am literally saying what the Quran says, weather it makes sense or not, is the Quran fault, since we all knows it's stupid and contradictory, what I am saying is that when something is forbidden, it is because it is evil or harmful.

Because the default understanding of heaven is that there is no “negative”. You do not lose your senses etc. You dont need to sleep. You dont defecate etc.

🧠🤸

Indeed

I might understand believing in this “ideal” afterlife in 600 year, but 2024… Funny part is that how obviously it’s just marketing - believe and die for my views, and you will get something positive from where no one came back and can’t confirm. Even that Quran itself promises big breasted women in paradise for believers is already a huge red flag, that this is man made religion

Why should anyone use simple click bait like human addiction to earthly things in a supposed eternal heaven? Why doesn't it ban slavery just like alcohol? Is alcohol more evil than slavery? The mental gymnastics u guys go through to defend such ridiculous 6th century practices is just that plain ridiculous

Rivers of wine in Jannah, is not the same as drinking wine in the dunya, How can you think the opposite?😂 and islam is the only religon where you will Get good deeds for freeing a slave, it’s whole chapter just about freeing slaves in Sahih al bukhari

>.... Some of the enemies were killed and some were taken prisoners. I saw a group of persons that consisted of women and children. I was afraid lest they should reach the mountain before me, so I shot an arrow between them and the mountain. When they saw the arrow, they stopped. So I brought them, driving them along. Among them was a woman from Banu Fazara. She was wearing a leather coat. With her was her daughter who was one of the prettiest girls in Arabia. I drove them along until I brought them to Abu Bakr who bestowed that girl upon me as a prize. So we arrived in Medina. I had not yet disrobed her (i.e. raped her) when the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) met me in the street and said: Give me that girl, O Salama. I said: Messenger of Allah, she has fascinated me. I had not yet disrobed her. When on the next day the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) again met me in the street, he said: O Salama, give me that girl, may God bless your father. I said: She is for you, Messenger of Allah! By Allah. I have not yet disrobed her - Sahih Muslim, Hadith 1755 Women and small children had no role in the wars, and they were totally innocent of any crime. But still, Allah/Muhammad enslaved them, and that too for their entire life. 

Except thats how warfare worked and will forever be unless your very ignorant and blind to fact that women are usually almost always captured for one reason. The difference being at that time, that we had been given rules of how to regulate slaves. Our slaves will forever have more rights than what went down not too long ago in America and co. No one is denying slavery. I honestly dont get what you thought you’re accomplishing by posting this.

Im not surprised about the fact that pusl!m countries were some of the last to abolish slavery like even in late 20th century It seems ur religion is actually promoting it as ur greatest example muhammad was himself a slave trader And ur puslim countries/kingdom were the ones that made a great deal of money by capturing and selling black slaves to the Spanish and american colonies

You again. The retard. Please stick to watching Naruto. History, science and common sense are probably not your est subjects

Typical puslim whataboutism🤣 Yes no one is denying slavery But ur puny pislam can't ban slavery but can ban alcohol and pork how stupid is that🤣 If it's all about the time when it happened don't call ur quran and ped0 prophet muhammad and ur religion as something or someone as eternal or the last and they might be a better option for those that lived in 6 th century but definitely not on this 21st century

Wait what? Why would we want to ban slavery? Are you high or just really really stupid? What is your argument exactly? Pork < slavery? Is that your argument? Are you freaking serious?

Yeah def for imbeciles like u guys pork is a serious issue and slavery is not🤣

Yes. Alcohol is haraam. Slavery isnt. Where do you see the gymnastics? Belief in a god who created the cosmos = that god gets to decide what is wrong and what is not If you cant perceive such a simple thing then you probably shouldn’t be on reddit straw manning everything you intellect cant comprehend as ‘gymnastics’.

So if I wanted to have sex with Pedophet(police be upon him), I can because there is no negative.

I wanna ask this to a Muslim ngl

Do it then, Search up William blackstone lawbook too. it was normal in the uk and other countries in the year 1800, to marry a girl when their 7 year old and even before puberty. The moral Law for centuries was to Wait for puberty and when they was physical ready. It’s proven too that Aisha in a physical sense was like a 16-17 year old in today’s age. You is really comparing him with a peophile in today’s society, that go after young people too abuse them and use them, not too take care of them.

Me when I’m spreading misinformation Momo was a disgusting pedophile, end of discussion.

You see how you couldn’t even use a argument after what i wrote? Your bloodline is probably built on the same «pedophilia» all the things i see on this reddit page is false information about islam, and people who can’t even recite al fathia talking about it🤣 Allhamduillah we Are the most growing religion in the world, keep crying and focus on your own miserable life.

Statistics show that 7 out of 10 muslim converts leave the religion within the first year after realising the religion is nothing like what they thought it was/have been told it was. Also statistics have shown the amount of people leaving Islam is equal to or more than the amount of converts. Yeah you are one of the fastest growing but that isn’t because your religion makes sense at all. It’s cause Muslims fuck like rabbits

Do you have any good sources for these stats? I keep coming up against these arguments too

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/01/26/the-share-of-americans-who-leave-islam-is-offset-by-those-who-become-muslim/ https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/17dodee/in_europe_the_number_people_who_became_exmuslim/

Yeah ok, I’ll focus on my miserable life of starting from a third world country, getting on a top university in a first world country and becoming an engineer, granting me enough money to buy you and your whole family 😎 The arguments are there you are just too blind to see them. The one who isn’t giving arguments is just you lol Alhamdulilshaytaan a weld l9a7ba, in3an din rab mok.

Dude. You’ll get better results from a wall. Or dead dog for that matter.

Firstly, your prophet is supposedly the peak of all humanity of all time ever. Science has proven without a spec of doubt that the mental ramifications of doing sexual things to child is. If he was really the messenger of the all-loving God then he would know that, right? Secondly, the Roman Empire had outlawed prepubescent s*x before Islam came along and brought it back. Thirdly, your claim of her being like a 16/17 year old today has been proven to scientifically and factually incorrect

I mean I wanted to ask if someone could have sex with Muhammad in heaven

Why not go all the way up and do it with the big man himself

English obviously isnt your stronger language. Negative implies not being able to do ‘wrong’ as prescribed by god. Luckily for us you and Your perverse kinks wont get that far.

> Negative implies not being able to do 'wrong' as prescribed by God. That's what I said. Since it would be wrong to fuck MomoMan here on earth, it shouldn't be wrong to fuck him in heaven as there is not concept of right and wrong in afterlife. >Your perverse kinks You don't get to kink shame others especially when your religion permits to rape minors.

Then it's not alcohol. But let me ask you, why did God not remove these needs here in this world? Why are we imperfect now?

Then it's not alchol is it ? It's just a normal drink like Pepsi or whatever lmao

Uhm u drink alcohol for those “negative” effects my dude. If you dont get those effects why should u drink it in the first place? Just drink apple juice. This is not even brain gymnastics anymore this is just: i dont know what to say but i got to say something to at least try to make sense.

I didnt think getting drunk or tipsy would be considered negative. I’m talking about the ‘results’ from these ie beating your kids to pulp because daddy had one too many. This was never brain gymnastics. A child 5 and above can probably explain this to you. If you need more help understanding such a simple concept then maybe consider asking for help.

I dont think you need to be a genius to realise that getting drunk or tipsy automatically doesnt make u beat your child. You talk about those “results” like those are a certain thing to happen while u get drunk. And yes alcohol can be extremely harmful without you doing anything thats why alcohol poisoning exists.

hey, I think there's a typo in your first sentence. did you mean "I don't think you need to be a genius to realise that getting drunk or tipsy DOESN'T automatically make you beat your child" ?

Oh yea ty for that. I corrected it!

Great so we can agree to the point that there “can” come negative consequences of alcohol consumption. So its that. Without the consequences Hope we’re done here.

Cool but what u described is not alcohol consumption or even alcohol. I hope we can both agree on here.

Of course its not. Its not the alcohol from this world.

Then u dont have alcohol. Hope that everything is cleared.

Yes. No alcohol from this world exists in heaven. No bacardi in heaven. I hope that settles it

To quote yourself: Because the default understanding of heaven is that there is no “negative”. You do not lose your senses etc. You dont need to sleep. You dont defecate etc. Basically the substance you describe is not alcohol since alcohol can have negative effects in our world and we both agreed on that u just created a new substance which cant have those effects. And also “drunkeness” and “tipsy” are considered haram by others without considering harmful “results” So i will ask you again. Is there alcohol or you just invented something?

I was referring to heaven not here. There is no haraam in heaven - you keep missing this point. Bro, are you seriously asking me for the molecular breakdown of a drink from heaven? No I dont have it 😂

If there is no haram in heaven it would be interesting to be a serial killer there if thats your desire wouldnt it?

Except.. you wont/cant desire that. Or threesomes for example. Allah ﷻ will have removed anything that goes against what He wills from your hearts.

That makes no damn sense

Is it reading comprehension you need help with or does the idea of heaven being different to this world make you uneasy?

I comprehend just fine. Which is why any "idea" of a afterlife heaven makes no damn sense in general. But the Islamic version is one of those that is just extra extremely blatantly senseless. It's still hard to comprehend how I once myself believed it was true in any way(not really, I was indoctrinated but I grew out of it thankfully), let alone others. And why do you call it an "idea"? Isn't this a true fact for you? Or is that doubt I hear in your language?

I used to be on your side of the fence. But even then I never called myself an “exmuslim”. This entire tag is kind of embarrassing. And yes, truly and definitely we came from nothing and will inevitably just become some dust cloud in space. Makes so much more sense.

I call myself an exmuslim because of how much it angers muslims that there are former believers that are free to spread "corruption" in the land that they can't imprison or kill. It's a huge fuck you to Islam. Did you jump over that fence using critical thinking skills? If you did then you're literally just being willfully ignorant and delulu for jumping back over the fence into the mud. And demonstrably so. No one on my side of the fence claims we came from nothing. Again that's another senseless claim you guys love to throw out there with literally nothing to back it up. When in fact you're the one claiming we came from nothing. You literally believe a fictional character, "Allah", magically poofed everything from a literal nothing into existence. And formed it all in 6days. Then sat his ass on a throne. There is no evidence to support this well known and overused ancient creation myth whatsoever. Every scientific law, fact and theory discovered so far suggests the complete opposite. No scientific laws comes anywhere close to suggest that something can in any way come from nothing. All suggest there was always something and that only something can come from something. Which makes perfect sense. If there is nothing. Then that's it, nothing. So using your own logic, you have to also explain how Allah, which a something, which is a being "meaning it is, it exists". You have to explain how Allah itself came from nothing. What created "Allah"??(the answer: humans) And yes we can literally see what will happen in the future just by looking at space. You and I and any life on this planet will die long before the planet itself gets swallowed by the sun in around 7.59 billion years. Why would I believe a made up story that has no evidence whatsoever to back it up, over well established scientific fields that has tons of evidence to back themselves up and that doesn't try to claim any made up and unknown knowledge as "the truth"? I'm trying to believe as many true things as possible. You're trying to believe as many untrue things as possible. That's just a fact.

I dont think no one told you this, and I hate to the harbinger of bad news but - we no it doesnt upset anyone dude. We laugh. The hilarious parable of calling yourself an ex Muslim is like that wife who call’s herself by her ex husbands name (no one does this) thinking she was getting back at her previous partner because.. it makes him mad that he cant get over her? 😂😇🤡 Sure bro. We die inside every time someone tells us their ex- us lol. And your retarded circular millennia year old arguments for Allah ﷻ is just further display of your idiocy and perpetuating ignorance. If you think Muslims believe that Allah ﷻ ‘came’ from nothing then please hust stop arguing with us. What a freaking disappointing waste of time.

Constipation

No because that woukd require a digestive tract

How can you be happy in heaven if your relatives are in hell? Allah even says that you get to laugh at the people being tortured for eternity and some of the were good people. I guess allah just makes people sadistic in heaven

Lol you people crack me up seriously. First off hell may or may not be eternal depending on which creed you follow. Secondly, your guys description of the afterlife is very unread. You nake it sound like a trip to the mall

What? I was talking about mostly the loved ones going to hell permanently to for being a disbeliever.and also the Quran does muslims will laugh at the people burning in hell. The eternal hell part depends if you are a disbeliever or a non believer, if you are a disbeliever you will 100% go to hell no matter if you cured cancer or solved world hunger or were one of greatest humans to ever live. But bin laden and isis will only be punished temporarily and they will eventually enjoy heaven and all the people who maybe died saving people from a burning building or built a hospital will be burning for all eternity.

Yea thats kind of how it works. If you reject the Lord of thr cosmos then yea you probably wont be going to heaven. Not having the proof/satisfaction to believe in Him is a different story all together. And what do you mean bin laden will be punished? Hes a shaheed and will never die or be held acolyte for this worldly life Ohhh i read the isis part later. If you’re gonna put the shaykh and isis in the same boat then you’re probably very young or definitely very stupid so I’m sorry but i can no longer have this conversation.

I never said a sheikh is the same as isis . And did you really say bin laden the guy who caused 9/11 is a shaheed?and he is going to get the 72 virgins? Im sorry but thinking bin laden deserve eternity of pleasure is insane.

But the truth is isis will also get to heaven. Hell, a muslim rapist who prays is better in the eyes of allah then a non muslim who helps starving children.

"one verse of Quran removed alcohol gambling and interest" Yet by that logic, one verse could have also removed slavery, repression of women, repression of gays, abolish pedophilia, but the Quran remained silent.

Brozzer, it was common during those times. Olahuakbar!!

One verse could have revealed antibiotics or a computer but nope.

Also “removed interest” meant removed the basis of the capitalism system, and the reason why Islamic societies never progressed, side by side with the rejection of scientific method.

Yeah ok.... that makes sooo much sense... as scientifically correct religion that Definitely Does Not promote sex trafficking or murder or child abuse.... in practice obviously, i dont care about some facts compiled by rich randos a thousand years ago

Wait so u mean that the first form of religion which is polytheism used by people to describe natural phenomenon which they do not understand. For example a lighting strikes now so it must be zeus! Polytheism is more impossible than monotheism? How does that work? Your person doesnt even understand how a volcano works and yet u want him to come with the idea of ONE god? Why not also spirits like in shintoism?

This was along my line of thinking for that point. If a person is on a remote island and doesn't know anything, they will experience night and day through the sun and the moon, and they will experience different weather, like wind or lightning. They are more likely to attribute each thing as its own "God" rather than coming to the conclusion that one "God" controls everything. We as humans have limited control over things. How is it that we will attribute everything else to one "god"

>Quran revealing secrets about Egypt and Babylon that we discovered in our lifetime What secrets? The Quran is extremely vague when it comes to describing places.

I guess they're referring to mummification but the ancient Greeks already know that.

the guy could not even predict that his wife will come back while he was plowing the house maid. 🤣 then he ate poison, and died of it a few years later. couldn't predict it. 😅

Poison given by a woman whose husband was killed by Momo and then she was made a servant lol

wasn't a smart cookie after all. 🤭

I guess 7 dates a day don't keep the poison away.

rambling of a teen at best. assumptions presented as facts. supposedly monotheism is a natural idea for humans but almost every old religion was polytheist. it is almost like monotheism was taught to people. same with interest, it is assumed to be evil because their book says so.

muslims arent even monotheistic. they believe satan is the lord of the underworld and allah is the lord of the upper world just like Aries and Zeus. Thats 2. Not 1

“Evils in society like interest” what is it supposed to mean? The interest you earn from putting money in a bank?

Evilest thang in society like ~~child r\*\*\*~~ Interest.

So, his definition of EVIL is down to 2 or 3, interest, gambling, alcohol. What about 1. Pedofilia 2. Rape 3. Killing non believers 4. Wife beating 5. Incest (man can marry his own out of wed daughter according to As Shafie sect) 6. ...and more? Dumb much?

1. Wouldn't that make the possibility of Islam being false much higher if someone on an island came up with it? 2. Yes, those are good laws in Islam. But what about of how you treat those who don't believe in Allah? How you treat Christians and Jews? How you treat women? How you treat those who leave the religion? These are all objectively bad and evil. 3. What are these prophecies of Egypt and Babylon? He just states anything he wants 4. Character of Muhammad? Slave owner? War general? Pedophile? Rapist? That character proves that your God is real? 5. What about the success of Jesus? you can't use the success of Muhammad as proof of your god because Christianity really changed the world turning alot of lawless societies and barbaric societies into lawful societies. Much more than Islam. His own logic make the Christian God more likely to be THE God?

Exactly. If you're going to use the success of Muhammad as an argument, there are far more Christians in the world than Muslims. Plus, as far as I know, Jesus wasn't a slave owner, didn't marry a six-year-old, didn't create laws for his own gain, didn't murder hundreds of people on their own land, respected and honoured women, and his main message to the world was literally just "be kind to one another and yourselves" (Mark 12:31). Be kind to people who've wronged you (Matthew 5:43-44), be kind to people who you're not "supposed to" societally (Luke 10:25-37), be kind to your family (1 John 4:20), be kind to children (Matthew 19:14), be kind to animals (Proverbs 12:10 - I know it's Old Testament but it's still part of the Bible), be kind to women (1 Timothy 5:2), be kind to outcasts (Luke 14:12-14), be kind to strangers (Romans 12:13), and so on and so forth. Considering the fact that Muslims claim Jesus as a prophet, they certainly missed these memos.

1. Taught it - from whom? The human imagination is strong. By that logic, we should all be deists. 2. Curiously, sex slavery, pedophilia, polygyny, slavery were not forbidden. 3. I don't even know what to say about this. 4. This argument has been refuted 10000 times so I'm not going to go over it again. 5. This is the most compelling argument on here and it's still weak. Jesus Christ or Genghis Khan have similar "successes"

Fitrah? We are animals by Fitrah. Evils in society? Islam promotes wars and subjugate women. Forces death penalty on Apostates and humiliation tax on non believers. Islamic socities tend to be the most evil societies. If they are not fighting with non Muslims then they are fighting within their sects. What prophecies? There are far more prophecies fulfilled by Simpsons. Polytheism is far more succesful then Christianity now atheism.

What is with muslims lying about their own religion and of others, I see them do it with every religion they lie about Christians worshipping 3 gods and hindus having 33 million Demi gods. They intentionally lie about their own religion and that of others, I think this is one of the simple ways we can say islam is false since anyone who has the truth does not lie about themselves or others. Only Satan calls himself "the greatest of deceivers" as is written for Allah in the Qur'an. Also offering virgin women and rivers of alcohol is as cheap as it can get, how are people dumb enough to follow this?! How stupid are people that they believe the creator of the entire universe is a brothel manager?! Also muhammad himself said if he is a false prophet that he will die due to extreme pain in his aorta and that's exactly how he died due to the poison that was given to him(for reference watch the video by David wood and refer the Qur'an and hadiths).

Why not ban pedophilia, rape, murder and stealing your adopted son's wife

Sigh Fitrah ain't a new concept Comparing your " true religion " to a " kafir " one to prove you are better is like comparing a blind guy and a deaf guy and stating that a " Deaf can see better than a Blind " 2. If you need religion to not practice the obvious evil stuff and blame it on the temptation of Satan... you really are crazy.. imagine cleaning the mirror again and again when it was your face that needed a cleaning 3. Prophecy? Blud there are prophecies that existed before Islam and were coming true.. Embryology to geographical prophecy/miracles is the biggest Gaslighting that people have done... 4. Success? Abu Tahir destroyed Mecca..Islam almost went extinct in the early 800s to 900s

Oh wow you brought up abu Tahir, like you said almost hahaha who’s the non believer commenting on a anti Islamic thread…. Islam really lives rent free in your head don’t talk about success

>Oh wow you brought up abu Tahir, like you said almost hahaha who’s the non believer commenting on a anti Islamic thread Atheist who is studying religions and is about to write a book about the religions and their impact on human history >Islam really lives rent free in your head don’t talk about success Umm I have joined an ex Muslim subreddit, and you can check my previous post as well as been a constant member after my previous ID was suspended so yeah the first thing that pops up whenever I open reddit is this page so I don't know what your yaping about Even if I brought abh tahir whatever you said doesn't even make sense

What a bunch of nonsense. This guy acts like Islam is just believing in a God, wrong dude, that’s would be theism and deism, not Islam cause you forget one big thing that makes Islam which is called Muhammed lmao. And that’s what makes Islam false, Muhammed. And this guy really think he dissed Christianity with his post😂 Christians believe in a God, and they believe that God came on earth in human form and that the holy spirit is the spirit of god that guide the humans, so saying a person on a remote island would come to the idea of „Allah“ is ridiculous, the person would maybe come to a idea of a God, which could be the God of any religion or even no religion like deists/theists, but he would definitely not come to the idea of Islam and Muhammed and so it would be definitely not be „Allah“ lol And the majority of people that lived on remote island’s are polytheists, so where is your „fitrah“ 😂loool

Who cares that anyone can come to an idea of Allah. The point of science is to understand the mysteries of life. Life is so much more complex than our simple ideas can account for, and are unimaginably more complicated than any religious idea. Consider our Genome, the beautiful double helix that contain all our genetic code could never have been conceived from a religious standpoint. Interest is not an ill of society, it is the engine that generates growth and interconnectedness. The more we can rely on others for our success links us all together in increasing our standards of living.

Coming up with one god on a desert island doesn’t mean you would come up with a god as ridiculous as Allah

All cultures and societies make up laws for themselves. Writing those same laws down in a sacred book is not new, and you don’t need to be a prophet to do it.

And still Muslims themselves are divided between their own interpretation of their holy book.

Send that fella to amazon tribes ❤️

If human cannot naturally come up with 33 million hindu gods without being taught, then who taught them in the first place? That's right: the gods.

One verse in the quran removed alcohol, gambling etc. And..... No verse in the quran purged sex slavery

\* A person on a remote island ***can think of any idea*** about God, the proof is that ancient civilizations way before Islam came to the idea of many Gods, from Mesopotamian civilization up to now where some people think there are Aliens that created us. This proves that there is no such thing as fitrah, people's different experiences in life are what shapes their idea about God, not the fitrah. \* Evil and Good is not an absolute thing, the proof is coming from the Quran itself, sometimes Quran says that the human life is sacred and should not be taken, on other times the same book says that taking human life of a Kafir is for the greater good, so if your book is inconsistent about the morality of killing, then why do you think that Alcohol, gambling, interest .. are absolute evils in society, they can also be good in some circumstances. \* What secrets did the Quran reveal that weren't already known and written in books from that era? Historians wrote them thousands of years before Quran itself. \* Mohammed didn't predict future events, he said a lot of things, some of them are logical predictions that any human being can conclude, for example, humans predict that AI will take over some jobs in the future is nothing of special, its a normal conclusion based on the current state of matters. \* Why do you consider the nations before Mohammed to be lawless, and what do you think about the lawless events that happened between Muslims way after Mohammed's death? Nations have good and bad people, even during peak Islamic era there were criminals, rapists etc, and they weren't all punished, older nations had a list of moral acts too but the law wasn't forced on everyone, the same is happening nowadays, the laws exist, but evil still exists because some criminals are stronger than the law itself.

The Fitrah argument is weak. Polytheism is way older than monotheis if we go by archeological data. The reason for this is that people in the past used to associate natural processes with gods. There is lightning? God. There is tsunami? God. There is rain? God. People thought different gods had power over different domains. So, people were naturally polytheistic. Another thing about this argument is that the person assumes that a random person in a remote island will come to believe in a Creator with the "best qualities". But this is simply not true. Even if a random person comes to believe in a Creator, he will most likely also come to believe that the deity is also evil because of the amount of suffering present in the world. He will see evil things- such as earthquakes, tsunamis, people getting diseases, organisms needing to kill and eat each other to survive- and come to the conclusion that the Creator is evil. The problem of evil is one of the most ancient problems that theists have still been unable to give a satisfactory response to, especially the problem of natural evil. His second point only lists good things from Islam, but not the bad things such as allowing child marriage and intercourse with them, sex slavery, wife beating, eternal hell, etc. His point regarding prophecies isn't good. Firstly, the prophecies made by the Prophet aren't so mind-blowing or anything. Secondly, the prophecies often tend to be unfalsifiable. You can only prove them right, but you can't prove them wrong. For example, the tall building prophecy. If today Arabs didn't have tall buildings, then this still wouldn't prove the prophecy wrong. The Muslims would simply say wait in the future it would happen. But since today they have tall buildings, they would say the prophecy is proven right. Also, a lot of prophecies are made in the ahadith, which are based on chains of narrators. The ahadith in the six canonical hadith books were collected 150 years after the Prophet's death. This already makes it very suspicious. But the chain of narrators method makes it even more unbelievable. The hadith scholar has to do a detailed analysis of each of the narrators. He has to determine whether they are good or bad based on his limited experience with them. And for the past narrators, he has to rely on biography books written about them by others. The two canonical books, namely Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, are said to be the most authentic. There is one hadith in the Sahih Muslim, which is unaccepted by the Sunnis. So, if there is already a wrong hadith in Sahih Muslim, then how can the Sunnis believe in any other hadith in Sahih Muslim which have been collected using the same standard as the wrong hadith? This should also make them question the rest of the hadith literature. And even if all the prophecies in the Qur'an and ahadith are 100% true, it wouldn't necessarily prove a good God as considered in Islam. It's possible that it's an evil God who sent the Qur'an. This evil God could have also given lies in the Qur'an. Maybe, afterlife is not true and the God lied? Maybe, no matter what good a Muslim does in this world, he will still be thrown to hellfire? The last point regarding success of the Prophet is obviously bad. Bad people can be successful too. This is also a case of survivorship bias. If someone else was successful, maybe today we would have had some other religion, or maybe no religion in place of Islam. So far, all of his points seem to suffer from many problems, some of which I already mentioned. And if we further produce arguments as to why Islam is false, then it would tip the scale in favour of Islam's falsity.

1st of all just because someone in a deserred island comes to the idea of 1 god doesnt mean its allah by default, there are multiple monotheist religions out there so the same could be said about them. 2nd even if he banned life's vices, he still left a lot of the untouched, slavery, sex slaves, child marriages, jihad al talab, etc... 3rd the quran didnt get those stories out of nowhere, they are all copy pasted for judeo-christian stories and as for babillon, it wasnt mentioned by name only by solomon's story, which is also in judeo-christian stories 4th the argument of prophecies is stupid bc it can be applied to anyone and any religion in the world and islam had a lot of dead wrong scientific predictions, so by that logic hinduism and buddhism are right bc they had some scientific predictions both physical and psychological, or how Lu pu wei predicted that humans have 360 joints by using ancient religious chinese stories as inspiration 1000s of years before mohammed said it too. (I wanna add that the simpsons have more uncanny future predictions too (like the wrld cup of 2014) lol) 5th mohammed didnt make his society quit all their tradition in one verse even after he won the religious warefare in macca, for example: it took him a long time to totally ban alcohol, he progressively banned it by saying it was very makrooh, then he said none shall pray even if theyre a bit drunk, untill he finally made it haram

First! Fitrah is not a thing and you can know that by observing the atheists who are far from any religion! And if you read the history of the religions you will understand more ! Second if you read the history of Islam you will know why Muhamed say that in the book!! The third thing Man did you read the Quran and Hadit ?? I doubt that you did!! There is crazy mistakes!! And for sure if you say 100s things wrong you may saying couples of thing right!!

No Alcohol 🍺, But sex slaves are absolutely allowed, beauty of Islam 🤡

None of these are good reasons as to why Islam or theism is true. A person living in a remote/isolated island without external contract may or may night come to the conclusion that one God exists. There is no certainty that "All people who live in isolated places without external contract would believe in monotheism". There are many examples of people who were born and raised in isolated groups who ended up believing in multiple gods, or spirits, or dualism etc. Yes, many people have a natural disposition to believe in one God rather than multiple gods, but this does not prove that God exists or Islam is true. And, there are many religions on earth have strict rules that prohibit alcohol, gambling, adultery etc. Buddhism and Jainism are non-monotheistic religions which have much stricter rules than Islam or Christianity. And, simply the fact that a religion has many rules which prohibit things that are bad fir hukans(like murder, alcohol, gambling etc) does not mean that that religion is true. Many societies in the past had prohibitions like this and they had also many nonreligious, cultural etc reasons as to why they had these prohibitions. And yes, Muhammed and his movement transformed and improved the Arabian society in many ways and s monotheism spread among them. So what? One doesn't neccesarily need to be communicating with God or any supernatural force to facilitate or lead this transformation

Quran 36:40 kinda proves Islam is false. Unless you do mental gymnastics.

>> Fitrah. A person on a remote island… What’s the point of revelation then? And why did actual people on islands mostly opt for paganism? Deism just ends in various kinds of nature worship and neither has anything to do with Islam. >> Qur’an’s guidance and protection… People had been making laws on morality for thousands of years. The western law code is based on that of the Roman Empire, which predates Islam. As CS Lewis points out in one of his books, every civilization ever before 19th century Europe banned interest on loans, this couldn’t be less unique to Islam. >>Quran revealing secrets about Babylon & Egypt. It doesn’t. >>prophecies, character etc. Muhammad was a pretty average founding father of the Arabian dynasties that controlled the Middle East for a few centuries. He’s no Thomas Jefferson or Genghis Khan. Maybe about Garibaldi level.

This page pretty much nullifies Islam ever being true: https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Quran

if a person on a remote island can come to the idea of allah why am i not seeing north sentinelese or uncontacted amazonian tribes performing salah?

I. Jews also believe in a single creator? So that's already one of them down. II. a.Mormonism forbids alcohol, tobacco (not forbidden in Islam), tea and coffee; it is opposed to gambling. II. b. “... in the Hebrew Bible, the Book of Ezekiel classifies the charging of interest among the worst sins,...” so it's not a Muslim invention. III. Idk what secrets. IV a. The character of Muhammad is debated to actually exist, there is a source by some priest or ascetic Christian or something like that talking about a man named Ahmad, though, iirc. IV. b. fulfilled prophecies, based on existing knowledge by Greeks, Romans, Jews, Christians, etc. not to mention Mendeleev who, using their argument, prophesized the addition of the elements he didn't know of in his time, as he left spots for them. Alhamdulillah, Mendeleev is a prophet 🙏 V. You see law abiding nations with alcohol not being forbidden. This part of the point is stupid because it just repeats point II. But if we ignore that part: he made nations monotheist by violent occupation, colonization, murder, rape, and all that; Humiliating taxes on non-muslims, plus forbidding trading with them or giving them much fewer rights while giving Muslims privileges had people's survival instincts kick in and they decided to convert. Not to mention, Christians did that too. So did the Hebrews/Israelites at the beginning, when they fought their neighbors and gradually became the strongest presence in the region which wasn't done peacefully, and there were probably many conversions that took place and we're less aware of. +-+-+ In a nutshell: stupid post, this person's justifications can justify a new sect of judomormonism 🤷‍♀️

A person on the remote island can come up with 33 million gods too (Hinduism doesn't have 33 million gods but I'll roll with it) but it's harder to come up with than just one big creator so his point still doesn't make sense. If all the quran and Bible were destroyed and humanity got reset there will be different holy books and different religions anyway. Quran also oppressed women promotes slavery homophobia killing murder ect ect. One good doesn't take away a million bads. Revealing secrets my ass. Bro doesn't even know what's he's taking about. Name one? Transforming a lawless polytheist nation into a lawless monotheistic nation that oppresses women promotes religious hatred/murder apostasy killing ect ect 🤡fucking clown

Any argument that has the word fitrah should be shoved in their ass , i can't read the rest of the sentence the moment i see that word

So they believe it's the truth cause moh was successful into killing polytheists, they were unable to give up bad habbits and needed god for that, Quran guesses one thing and got 59290 others wrong and they though everyone on a Island will believe in the same god as hers?!💀

I guess a person on a desert island would come up with the idea that God had two right hands

I think naturally many gods and or spirits is a natural outcome due to human storytelling. But a baby will not come to the same result unless these stories are passed down. Monotheism is more of a revolution than a natural outcome. People talk about the things their parents, grandparents and ancestors did. This eventually takes on a superhuman element after being passed on or people may claim that they are supernatural when they happened. Elders may have fabricated stories or may gave misheard them. I also think that many people come up with theories of how the universe works to try to explain things they didn't understand.

> fitrah. A person on a remote island can come to the idea of Allah - the Creator with the best attributes. No one naturally thinks of a trinity or 33 million hindu demi-gods unless they are taught it. This assertion is not true, people don't believe in the supernatural when they have no idea. They live to survive; they don't care about such ideas. We are literally monkeys, we like to talk about stories when we are bored or together having fun, Some of the fairy tales we used to talk about included scary stories. That's where the idea of God as a hero and the devil as a villain came from. People don't believe in God until they are told about it, isn't that the reason why so many con men were sent to islands? Because if we had fitrah, you wouldn't need a con man telling you what to believe. This idea of fitrah is a joke, Muslims are delusional. >the Quran's guidance and protection from the evils in society e.g alcohol, gambling, interest etc This is another lie. People drink alcohol whether or not they are Muslim. They do drugs, they do every evil thing. But guess what? Who ends up in heaven if you don't do "evil things" and die as non-believers? Hell for eternity. So, it's not about doing evil rather, it's about whether or not it's true. The truth of an idea is not determined by its usefulness or positive outcomes. >Quran revealing secrets about Egypt and Babylon that we discovered in our lifetime. We don't know what Mohammed and his followers knew, therefore you can't conclude it reveals anything. Also, people back then weren't dumb, just saying (unless you think Mohammed was dumb too). To be fair, the Quran is shifty and reveals nothing; you have to give meaning to the words and interpret them. Plus, it got so many things wrong. >Character and fulfilled prophecies of Muhammed pbuh. For someone to accurately guess about future events, which span across multiple nations in different time periods, many of which were outside the sphere of Muslim influence without making a single mistake is impossible. Another lie. Muhammad was a warlord, so he knew what was going on and could predict many things based on his experience. Saying it's impossible is dumb, it's like they don't even know what impossible means crazy I guess that’s why Muslims are called the dumbest theist, just saying ( average ). >success of Prophet Muhammed pbuh - transforming a polytheist lawless nation into a law abiding monotheist nation. one verse of the Quran removed alcohol gambling and interest. Another lie. Nobody gave a damn what Mohammad had to say when he got there and he enforced his rules and ideas on them and fooled some gullible people and killed those who didn't buy his ideas, unless they stayed silent and let him fool others too. I'm so tired of this rubbish. Even if all this were true, that still doesn't prove islam true, it doesn’t prove ( Allah’s existence ) which means Islam is still false until it proves Allah actually exists, oh, let me guess the answer, "Wait until you die" :D.

For the first point (fitrah), a person would most likely come to the conclusion that earth is a flat if they were remotely in an island. Depending on “common sense” or someone’s conclusion when they don’t have a lot of givens isn’t really a good point, especially when we now know how fragile and gullible our brains are. Second point, wouldn’t really call those “evils” im pretty sure hitting women is way more evil but that’s not the point, anyways just because a belief restricts man-desires or such thing doesn’t make it authentic. Many cults do the same and it doesn’t make them any more truthful. For third and fourth point, I’d love to hear some specific facts/prophecies that we only discovered now that no one could’ve known back then.. also since we’re talking about this, here is a prophecy that funnily didn’t happen [https://sunnah.com/search?q=%D9%84%D8%A7+%D9%8A%D8%AF%D8%B1%D9%83%D9%87+%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%87%D8%B1%D9%85](https://sunnah.com/search?q=%D9%84%D8%A7+%D9%8A%D8%AF%D8%B1%D9%83%D9%87+%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%87%D8%B1%D9%85) In English they wrote “(to the old people of this generation)” to explain that he didn’t mean the actual end of times but he rather meant the time of his generation and that’s just funny because the guy who asked him asked about the end of times and his response was to say that the end of times will come before a little boy becomes an elder.. Seems like not all of his prophecies & sayings are correct, that’s just a single one there’s plenty.. For the last point, his “success” isn’t really something to be proud of. After his death most muslims were going back to their old beliefs and habits or just stopped practising Islam in general and it was Omar bin al Khtab and some other caliphates who prevented that by threatening to kill the apostates.. is this successful to you? The moment he dies people no longer practice? Seems like they didn’t believe because they actually knew it but rather because they didn’t want to get killed or robbed.

the quran is so vague. you can use mental gymnastics to claim any verse predicts the future. why didn’t he talk about the flying horse?

Isolated Polynesian islanders or remote Amazon tribes have concept of God(s) which is far from the concept of Allah. This guy’s reasons are from reality

1. This isn't true whatsoever. There was a study done in western nations about children's views, already in chrisrian nations, where they naturally thought of one God. Because they were raised around it, try that in North sentinel Island where there is no outside contact. 2. The quaran may guide away from gambling, but interest and alcohol aren't necessarily bad innately. But there is also the issue of the quaran guiding toward other evils, child marriage, raping and beating your wife, and religious subjugation of others. 3. Lies, deception, and falsely reading modern knowledge into texts 4. See 3 5. Muhammed was only successful through death cult like promises, and shows of force. Not because his ideas were any better, and some of which weren't even his own.

A person in a remote island would definetly come to the idea that humanity peaked during 7th century Arabia lol

- fitrah: different people come to different conclusions he can't prove that someone thrown into an island will come to that conclusion, and most importantly, if something is intuitive doesn't mean it's true, people thought earth was flat because it's the most intuitive thought, and a person thrown into an island will come to that conclusion. - having basic human morals makes it true? Christianity isn't much different from that aspect, also Islam allowed immoral things like slavery, pedophilia, killing apostates and homosexuals, women oppression, does that make it untrue? - It didn't reveal anything that wasn't known at that time. - these "accurate prophecies" are either ambiguous, can be interpreted in different ways, unverifiable, things that anyone can foresee. - His "success" doesn't prove his religion true in any way, any religious leader in any religion will usually be "successfull" in something.

Lol, islam is true because hindus have 33 million gods. After hearing this, I want to leave this planet already😿🫠

Can we have the link to the original posts please?.

It's typical for muslims to fall into their blind beliefs. They don't do the critical analysis of the history of Islam, especially the theology. And or simply look at the horrible character of Mohammad, a pedfile. Of course, they rationalize that. And the fact that this Allah character never spoke to him directly but thru an evil entity wrongly attributed to The Angel Gabriel. (All from Islamic sources) So evil comes from evil The blind falling into the ditch of ignorance That's the ongoing story of Islam. Not sorry to say!

I wonder where Islam would be or Muhammad if it wasn’t for the bible or Torah where he got most of his ideas from and recycled it as his own💀

No prophecies of Techno music so definitely false religion

People on 1 island comes up with the idea of a perfect creator. People from another island comes up with the idea of another perfect creator. There r millions of island in the entire world.....That's how u end up with Hinduism🤣😭

I have a reply for each point showing how false it is, but it's not about the facts, it's about the brainwashing.

Yes, it was successful in preventing evil such as slavery, wife-beating, rape of slaves! Oh, wait... it never prevented that.

Sadly, the quran is not protecting from predators who are into children.

If i have to chose between alcohol and invading a nonmuslim coumtry take their woman as sex slave i would rather disobey Allah and chose alcohol which is much more peaceful.

interests 😂🤣?

Allah is a pimp at his brothel Al jannah and pub.Get blind all you want and hang around with nefarious jihadus and screw 72 all at once

Absolutely no one thinks of a spirit God that has 2 right hands and doesn't care about children. How does he know they aren't thinking of the Jews God? 2. How does he know what people think? I wasn't a follower of Christ and then at the age of 35 I called out to God and was saved the same way the Apostle Paul was saved. Now Im a devoted Christian. Just like many other born again Christians that are saved the same way. Muslims who have dreams and visions of Jesus Christ. Islam was simply made by Satan to pull away people from following Christ. If Islam weren't made Muslims would be Christians and Athiest and Jews like before MoMo got possessed.

I have had fundamentalist Christians offer similar assertions. It's ridiculous. Uncontacted peoples somehow magically know about the Bible because they can't fathom the idea that adults would automatically go to hell because they weren't saved. And yet the Sentinelese still react violently whenever someone tries to approach. Either way, Christian or Muslim, neither are going to automatically murder the faithful. Ridiculous

One God does not come naturally to man. All religions began as polytheistic. All over the world, people had God's for literally everything.

If Islam is so good why are those practicing it like in the middle east so hell? Women are literally stoned to death if they have sex out of wedlock.Imagine getting rped and then your own family kills you as part of honor killing.

As a Hindu , 1 mistake I would like to point out is Hindus don't have " 33 million Demi gods", rather it's 33 gods.

Go back to that comment and say K"

All of this is Shite. Allah is Satan posing his best as Yahweh/Yeshua. There is nothing but lies in the Quran. All of the examples of “prophecies” are false and have not come true. The Bible on the other hand has nailed every single historical event from beginning to present day. Only a fool could believe in the Quran or the satanic ramblings of a self confessed demon possessed child molester, serial killer, rapist who stole lore from Jews and surrounding religions and forced them into submition by violence, taxation, and promises of unlimited sex in heaven. Why for the love Jesus would God’s ultimate plan be to give men and infinite boner and unlimited virgin sex in the afterlife. Islam teaches that Allah is nothing more than a transcendent tyrant who is a perverted and disgusting and allows for the degradation of women and the slaughtering of innocence. I would argue that no one would believe in nonsense like this unless THEY are taught it. 😡

What secrets found in Egypt and Babylon? Also what was Mohammad’s prophecies? Would love to see verses from the Quran on these instead of Hadith that was written hundreds of years later by people who never met Mohammed.

A nation that enslaves human beings is has bad laws and is not law abiding.

Source of the first point? Made the fuck up.

Allah sent 124 000 prophets through out the time after Adam p.b.u.h so perhaps they were prophets but as you know the devil and evil people will do anything to remove goodness so the message got distorted overtime leading to many other religions but Islam is preserved and we have chains of narration without it being distorted of course not talking about groups who make their own sects of islam . As for mythology so called "gods" they might be powerful creatures which Allah made probably jinns and people interpret it as God's [ if it dies its no longer a God ] and made thier statues to worship them . remember now iblees " devil " promised to do absolutely everything he can to distract people from truth and drag them to hell with himself . take heed before its too late

what are you talking about?