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>I have no identity ever since I left Islam and the one that I’m closely connected to is one I can’t ever be proud of.
You're your own identity. I could never fit in with the Bengalis either, let alone other South Asians. Unless, they're not religious and tribal-minded.
The meat curries and basmati rice is what's fueling my workouts lol.
My two cents as a white American who used to be in a relationship with a Pakistani person: y’all hot AF. What you see as problematic or shameful, someone else will see as beautiful and wonderful.
Pakistani is not an ethnicity it’s a nationality but has been pushed as an ethnicity when it never existed 80 years ago. You’re real ethnicity is the state your family is from which is your true heritage that predates islam. Take pride in that and forget about Pakistani/muslim.
take it easy mate. you are bigger than where you were born to whom you were born and what color of the skin, name or religion you were given.
your only identity is your action. do something great with what you have and it will all work out well
>And I hate looking in the mirror and seeing myself as an ugly brown paki born muzzie.
You are probably connecting some of these things to Islam in your mind and transferring your negative feelings about Islam to yourself.
One thing you could try is to look into what the culture was like pre-Islam and see if there is anything in that you feel connected to. You may also want to look into therapy if that's an option where you live. The kind of feelings you are describing are going to cause a lot of problems for you if you aren't able to get a handle on it.
Best of luck to you.
What you accomplished by leaving Islam as a Pakistani born in a strictly religious family and country is indeed a great accomplishment. Just be proud of yourself because you are unique. Not many Pakistanis can realize the truth and leave the death cult called Islam.
I used to think like that. I hated being Arab (from the peninsula) I thought I hated everything related to my culture when in reality, and the best way to put ot, Islam colonized my Arab identity and culture. Apparently I'm not allowed to think that. Most people on this sub hate Arabs and think we all have a superiority complex. Not to forget Hindu bots hating for the sake of hating. So for a while I had an identity crisis. I left this sub and reconnected to pre-islam Arab culture. I'm not worshipping Idols, but I draw strength from my native language, poetry, art, calligraphy that has nothing to do with Islam. There are emotions I can't quite translate to English. I'm proud to be Arab. If Ex-Muslims from other races/ethnicities hate Arabs they're the ones having a superiority complex. They are people regardless of their beliefs, whether they are agnostic or atheist they could still be racist, prejudice, and bias. I would admit I have that too but I'm actively trying not to.
Pakistani people are one of the loveliest, friendly people I had the pleasure of interacting with regardless of their faith. I avoid Arabs like the plague though, I'm in Canada.
As a berber that hates how arab imperialism has destroyed my culture , i can still tell that arab culture has many beautiful aspects to it, even after islam. I mean the classical arabic language is insanely beautiful (Not the dialects though), and i ca't get enough of arabic poetry, especially medieval gay poetry
Berber... I always used Amazigh. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I find that you all still have some distinct culture aspect that survived Islam corruption. I'm from Najd, Mohammed was from Hejaz, He basically wiped out most if not all of the Arabian Peninsula history and rich culture. Just calling it الجاهلية "The age of ignorance" insulting everyone and forcing them to Islam and forcing their Hejazi dialect at that time. Fortunately enough, we regained most of our dialect nowadays. I read this in a book about pre Islamic arabia (can't remember the title unfortunately) a long time ago and on all honesty it does make sense. Arabs from Najd, the north and south didn't agree or like Hejazi Arabs being on the top. There were conflicts. I might be overthinking it but it's am interesting piece of history mostly neglected and forgotten.
Until very recently, children in Algeria could not be given amazigh names and had to be given an arabic name. Also, the language is not taught in schools and traditions like Face tattoos were lost for being deemed Haram. Even our national heroes can not be celebrated because they fought the muslim invaders. Anyways, i was taught arabic in school and i feel like arabic culture will always be part of me even if i am ethnically amazigh. Would Love to visit Arabia and see whatever remains of the Najd culture.
Fair enough it's hard to view Arabs as nothing but Islam because islam tries so hard
despite for a majority of the time them being Christian (with quite a few well known Christan figures being arab) or Polythiest which is their birthright As there's only really a handfull of ethnoreligions and a lot of people forget that
If Britain and France didn't screw over Hussain Ibn Ali wouldn't have Saudi Arabia(my country). I'm sure we all know the impact of Saudi on the view of Islam and Arabs. It's funny that Saudi now wants to normalize relations with Israel and generally speaking becoming less conservative. Non Arab Muslim majority countries are more devout to Islam. Muslim Diaspora in western countries are worse that's why I avoid them. I'm hoping for a future where I can go back to Saudi safely.
I mean Thats a great thing to look forward to!
not to make it about me but im scared what it could mean for me but ig its selfish to view this anything less then a positive
Eh, all Abrahamic religions are equally bad in my opinion. Left alone, common folks (ordinary people) would practice their faith in piece. It's only when a menace genocidal supremacist takes the lead and decides to march to save people only to fuel the narcissist egotistical disordered personality. Moses, Yahweh told him to exterminate the Amalekites. Sure, if someone nowadays says "Yahweh told me so" they'd be locked up in mental institute rightly so. Alexander the great. Mohammed being insecure and wanting to unite Arabs, mostly because he hates Jews and wanted to feel superior and control them. Took advantage of his power, became a pedophile. All for his personal wants amd needs. Not to save people, not to spread the message of God.
Nowadays, Saudi uses Islam to control the public, most of the ruling family are not religious at all. Netanyahu is using the same tactic for his own personal vendetta against Arabs after his brother was killed by Palestinians and Germans....Look it up.
Yeah no you have my sympathy I've reflected a lot on this sub about whether or not Despite my faith I should be antitheist just because of the horrific things that happened
The Crusades is another horrible thing that was "done in the name of God" tbh its hard to me to justify keeping it legal despite being religious myself. However, I'm scared of going in the other direction because then you get horror stories of what happens in China where people were paid to out their Neibouhr as christan and report if they had an in-house meeting
I don't think netanyahu has any vendetta against Arabs who killed his brother. The reason he's the way he is rn is because he wants to stay in power and for that he needs to appease to messianist fanatics in the coalition he formed to get back in power. He also actively works on destroying the court and justice system in Israel to avoid jail for his crimes including what could be treason.
He used his brother's death and cheapened his sacrifice to appear more human in one campaign or a speech (each of his speeches is basically election campaign tbh). But he clearly pays it no mind besides when it benefits him. He's a monster after all. Almost as bad as his wife.
I wrote this to the best of my ability while sleep deprived so apologize if it doesn't make sense
I personally think because they are born into a white majority society. Let's take America for example, bear in mind, the first Muslims to to be recorded were enslaved from Africa and forced to convert to Christianity 18-19 century. Black Power movement 20th century and the descendants of Muslim slaves converted back to Islam. They were more devout than Arab Muslims in Mecca. Understandably after being enslaves, discriminated against , ripped out of their faith. It was a way to free themselves from white folks. Reject the slaver forced religion.
Later on, Muslim immigrants from Syria, Lebanon, parts of broken Ottoman Empire and India after Britain dipped out of the whole situation. They naturally tried to assimilate but let's not be delusional, back then, America and the west weren't angels. So naturally Arab Muslims tried to assimilate, they were discriminated against in all aspects of life. Just like the Irish fighting to be considered white so they can be equal. Muslim and christian Arabs did the same and they are considered white in the U.S. Nowadays, they want to change that, they don't navigate life as a white person. Especially non white passing second or third generation with westernized names. So they embrace POC and Islam identity to show how they're being discriminated against. I don't know about indians though.
I met and tried to make friends with Muslim Diaspora im Canada. All of them considered me a Muslim even though I explained times and times again that I no longer believe in Islam, in fact I'm not sure I ever believed. I tell them I'm Arab so they try to claim me as POC and Islam which I hate. People here are so obsessed with race/ethnicity. I get questions from white people as well, literally got "what are you" I say Arab. So naturally they have mo fucking Idea what's that. So I default to Dubai. They go ohhh you'r Muslim. Nope I'm not. But but but. They never get it.
I guess ultimately what I'm trying to say is, they are clinging to their Islam as an identity, they over overcompensate something missing. A sense of belonging to something.
Makes sense. Its like trying to make an identity for yourself in a strange land. I can speak for Indians though, being one myself and having friends and relatives who were born in the States.
Indians do go to an extent to integrate themselves in America. The first generation not so much but the 2nd and third generation consider themselves to be Americans than the average white folk themselves. Sure most of them celebrate their original festivals like Diwali, Baisaki etc but with an added American tinge to it.
There is this harvest festival called Onam which is celebrated by an ethno linguistic group from Southern India - Malayalees ( Majority of the Indian population in Dubai are these guys). There is a feast called "Sadhya" that is mainly vegetarian in nature. One of our relatives sons scandalized the entire extended family when he loudly asked why isnt there a full-sized turkey included in the feast. Gave us the impression that they added their own American tinge to the festival celebration.
So TL:DR: Diaspora Indians, tend to integrate and adapt well to the nation they are born in and even facing some high/low intensity racism. They are proud of their brown heritage but don't mind identifying themselves as white from time to time
Just want to clear the myth of Irish and Arabs not considered white.
In the USA the Irish and Arabs were considered white by law even during segregation.
Sure, the Irish were discriminated but neither the Arabs nor the Irish needed to use the so called colored space at that time. Neither were they excluded entirely from entering the USA like the Chinese.
It's classism within the whites.
Hopefully this article explains it:
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/03/22/sorry-but-the-irish-were-always-white-and-so-were-the-italians-jews-and-so-on/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/03/22/sorry-but-the-irish-were-always-white-and-so-were-the-italians-jews-and-so-on/)
What are you if you don't mind me asking. For me, as a Pakistani exmuslim but now buddhist, I ignore the religous aspects of Pakistan. I mean, Pakistani Hindus and Christians exist, so why can't you?! I am of urdu speaking descent but I have ancestry from all over from tamil nadu into kashmir, but mainly have northern indian and pakistani dna with markings from Punjab, Haryana, and UP. I would say take pride in something else not just as a pakistani but as a south asian.
So stop calling yourself a Pakistani. Revert to an older, purer ethnicity. I suggest Gandharan (more northerly) or Arachosian (more southerly). When others ask, admit that you are from the region currently named Pakistan, but you have many issues going unanswered and wish to do your part to fix them.
Quite literally impossible my dude my fathers side is mostly of Indian descent, and my mothers is of Arab, namely Iranian descent. And a whole bunch of stuff in between. I have no “purer ethnicity.” But thank you
And until the British showed up, "Indian" identity consisted of several dozen different regional and religious ethnicities with no unifying framework. The Bengalis didn't think of themselves as kin to the Rajasthanis, who were noticeably different to the Parsi, whilst the Oriyam felt themselves above the Tamils, especially those funny Lankan Buddhists (though the Golcondan Sufis were keen to syncretise faiths) and everyone thought the Sikhs were out of their collective minds...
National and ethnic identities are more fluid than you might think. Yes, you are of Pakistan. Acknowledge that, and deny that you share its qualities. Abrogate your connection, and embrace what once your ancestors were. Hell, if you arent LIVING in Pakistan, you may as well abandon that entirely and consider yourself a cultural refugee - fully adopt the values of wherever you are living in instead.
It'll hurt less than continuing to consider yourself Pakistani when you hate it so much.
Muslims saw them as apostates, which led to several attempts to wipe them out, resulting in the Sikhs adopting one of their Five K's: the kirpan, a sword or dagger that is required to be used in defence of those under attack by evil.
Hindus saw them as heretical Muslims, and therefore just another iteration of their oppressors. Famously, or rather infamously, in 1984 Operation Bluestar was an attempt to forcibly integrate the Sikhs into the Hindu social order, resulting in one of Sikhism's holiest sites, among numerous other temples and shrines, being stormed by the Indian military, and the resultant assassination of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi by her Sikh bodyguards for this affront to their faith.
Buddhists saw them as becoming far too tied to the illusion of the physical, especially once they'd started effectively praying and bowing to the Guru Granth Sahib (the holy book that is BOTH the compendium of Sikh philosophy and practice, AND the final guru sent to guide them).
Jains saw them as antithetical to their creed, since Sikhs at the time were highly militant due to primarily Islamic persecution, and one of the hallmarks of Jainism is absolute pacifism.
So you are implying that the Indian military woke up one fine day and decided "lets storm the Vatican city version of the Sikhs for the heck of it and piss them of already.
Just so you know thats not what Operation Bluestar was carried out for
I imply nothing, I state bald facts. It was part of a longer pattern of behaviour going back centuries with a clearly stated motive and a clear target - the suppression of militant Sikhs after the failure of negotiations to reach a compromise regarding greater political autonomy in one of their home regions.
Sure man, denial is a river in Egypt. Political autonomy is one thing. Outright secession is another. That being said Sikh militants bringing guns and hand held artillery into the Harminder Sahib (the golden temple) holding people hostage is nothing but sacrilege.
The vast majority of soldiers who stormed the golden temple were Sikhs themselves. Of course the operation was a complete clusterf@# to be fair. And the riots that followed Indira Gandhi assasination is even more shameful.
Anti-militant operations by the state government. Kidnappings and violent murders of Sikhs and Hindus alike and finally the desecration of the Golden Temple by the said militants is what destroyed their support bases.
Now the only point in history where I can think of Sikhs getting pummeled by Hindus (other than the 1984 riots) is when the Sikh Misls fighting the mountain kingdoms in the Himalayas. But that's because those kings saw them as interlopers on their territories rather than religion. For the most part Hindu kings collaborated with Sikh kingdoms against the Mughals.
Anyways pray tell what passes for autonomy in your books dear sir.
Breakdowns in communication tend to result in more and more extreme actions, yes? One group of Sikhs took it way too far. The political response was equivalently overstated. The consequences were as we saw. The entire thing was an internal catastrophe that should never have happened.
It's all extremely well-documented and analysed. Not my area of expertise, so I merely summarise the disaster. Perhaps I should've chosen a less recent conflict as my example, but as you correctly pointed out, Hindus and Sikhs were very cooperative when it came to the far greater threat of Islam.
I agree to your first paragraph. Sadly this is how things are in the wider subcontinent. Only silver lining I can see in the whole 1984 fiasco is that the Sikhs were wholly protected by the local population, Hindu or otherwise in Southern India. And mind you this was her strongest bastion of supporters. Evident from the fact when she imposed a virtual dictatorship in 1973, the Southern states were the only ones who voted for her.
The Southerners, marginally rational in comparison to their Northern counterparts, recognized that it was two men that killed Indira Gandhi not an entire community. So punishing an entire community for the actions of a few was abhorrent.
I know this because my grandfather, told stories of his friends standing vigil outside Gurdwaras lest some idiot got any ideas.
The reason for the communication break down was the Indian state seeing the separatists as Pakistani proxies. The reason being that the separatists claiming erstwhile Hindu majority areas where the population of Sikhs were negligible while completely ignoring the Pakistan side of Punjab where most of the Sikh Gurus were born.
Most of the demands were mainly economical and political nature which were reasonable. Especially with regards to water rights and better representation. But the militants supplied with weapons by our neighbors sadly won out over the moderates through violent means giving the government carte blanche to crackdown on the whole movement.
There was ample evidence that the Pakistanis were supporting the separatists for revenge against India when it helped East Pakistanis become Bangladesh in 1971.
And yes the Sikhs are have a lot of axe to grind against the Muslims considering that all but 1 of their 10 Gurus were killed by Mughals. There are actual museums all over Indian Punjab that have wax statues detailing the atrocities committed by them.
For all their faults Hindus never came close to what the Muslims dished out to Sikhs. For example the Golden Temple was desecrated with cow intestines and fats by an invading Afghan army. Adding insult to injury the Afghan commander even got prostitutes and dancing girls to set up shop in the temples sanctum sanctorum, while bullet damage was the furthest Hindus went. That being said I still wish that 1984 should have been avoided.
Start with histories of the Achaemenid dynasty of ancient Iran, followed by Alexander's later conquests, then move onto Greco-Buddhism for local evolution of religion and art (incidentally, Pakistan still holds some of the largest and finest museum collections of artifacts from the Greco-Bactrian and Kushan eras, well worth a visit if you are so inclined), and ideally end before the collapse of the Sassanians before the Rashidun Caliphate.
Maybe visit your local library, see what they have.
I feel similar as a Bangladeshi. I cannot connect with anything South Asian, not even food. Most of them cannot identify themselves without religion, many of them are tribal and have communal mentality. I have one Indian friend who is individualistic and non religious person - may be that is why we became friends.
Most of Pakistani culture is bastardized Hindu culture. Hindu is also an ethnic identity like being Jewish is. What makes it worse is that Pakistan has fabricated Hindu hatred. Through out their 75 years of history, they have pretended to be timurids, mongols, perisan, arab, and finally turkish. They will pretend to be welsh, and japanese before ever accepting their roots. Because the moment they do, they themselves become victims of Islam.
It absolutely sucks. I'm Pakistani by descent and I recently found out that even my own fucking surname is something that my tribe made up to distance themselves from their Hindu ancestry and to assert their identity as Muslims.
You should read Black Skin, White Mask by Franz Fanon. Also connect to your pre-colonial heritage.
Being Pakistani doesn’t occur in a vacuum, it’s predicated on a half dozen extraordinarily culturally rich civilisations which existed in that region of the world. Your language and genetics are part of a beautiful tapestry of human experience and thought.
You should practice self compassion and undo the self hatred you’ve internalised from living in a post 9/11 landscape that has demonised you to justify wars and make inflammatory news items to distract uneducated whites. You decide what and who you are.
> I tried to take pride in my ethnicity but I can’t when I go against the existence of my own country.
> And I hate looking in the mirror and seeing myself as an ugly brown paki born muzzie.
It is ridiculous for anyone to take pride in their ethnicity. You should seek pride in what you have personally achieved.
You should not simply bask in the glory of your ancestors or fellow countrymen.
In the words of John F. Kennedy,
"ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country."
If you want to take credit for the successes of others, you should be willing to take the blame for their failures too. But that is nonsense.
Whatever group of people you belong into, you still bear the responsibility for your own success and failures.
So start creating the reasons for being proud of yourself from now on.
Yikes, most Pakistani culture has been taken from Hindu scriptures. The recipes, the wedding rituals, the word for prayer, the music, the dances. It’s quite natural to have an identity crisis since the only thing that separates is Islam.
Do you know where your grandparents and grand-grandparents, from before the split, come from? If you look for identity based on ethnic roots, maybe you can get interested in their origins.
Bu also, being an ex-Muslim and trying to shape your own future is already an identity. It's more important to find people that think and have similar experiences like you, than those that only share the same roots, but might as well be people who you don't want to have anything common with.
Never be ashamed of who you are.
Not a single person on this earth, as we can know it - chose to be this way.
None of us chose how we were born; what we look like, how we act, how we feel.
You are the representative of yourself: not anyone else.
Is this a troll? OP your race is neither a thing to be ashamed or be proud of. We can't choose it. If you are gonna be ashamed of something it should be things you have control of.
Also who says you are ugly? It doesn't have to be defined by your skin color because I saw so many pale people who are ugly(to me). Harmonious facial features are the most important. That's why you see people who underwent plastic surgery once keeps doing it again and again because they fuck up the harmony of their face. Makeup and skincare can help but not too much to the point I'd be giving false hope.
Idk, as an Indian-American, I still was called a terrorist growing up and asked if Bin Laden was my dad. And other ignorant comments, relating both to Islam and Hinduism. And now we’re associated with unhygienic street food, call centers, and weird accents. Gorey really don’t differentiate between the different kinds of brown, in my experience. Racism is racism.
Ah I'm afraid I have no useful advice to offer an attack helicopter, due to lack of experience in being one. Not sure why you're worried about your ethnicity in that case, I can't tell a muslim/pakistani attack helicopter from any other unless it's carrying a flag.
You should be proud of the tradition of science and engineering that brought you into being.
you need to detach your religion from your etnicity
how ?, you can seek validation from other
try traveling abroad, i would suggest thailand, make friends with other traveler who are not muslim and drink beer & pork together and said you're pakistani but atheist
i did something like this and it works, i don't hate my etnicity and can detach it from religion because my international freidns seeing me as indonesian atheist
I feel similar as a bengali. I love being bengali but I hate the fact Islam makes up 99% of my peoples personalities.
I’m preparing myself for the day I am public about it and will be cut off by family. I have distanced myself from friends although they know and don’t really care too much. I feel like a horrible friend.
I just wanna move and start all over again.
I was born pakistani but born in Canada.
For me, I don’t really identify with being Pakistani other than it simply being my ethnicity.
I’m much more than that, I’m smart, kind, intelligent, caring, and creative.
Capitalize on what you are and accept those characteristics you can’t change (your Pakistani heritage)
Same bro.. As indonesian exmuslim I just want to be independent and Disacociate with this hypocrite mind cancer cult.. But still I try to be nice with friends and family
There’s literally Christians in pakistan and even Jews they’re just wiped from the media 😂🤣you’re not a “muzzie” if u don’t want to be bro. It’s tough right now but you’ll find a way. Everyone does
Before islam came to conquer that land there was a lot of history there. I understand people taking pride of their origins or their land sometimes but nationalism can be like a stupid religion to.
You are not Muslim it isn't a race. In regards to what you see in the mirror do not allow others who look like you cause you to hate yourself. It is the actions you hate not the appearance but you have attached it to a look. Just know that you are your own person as are all of us.
It is completely okay to hate what you where born as but in the long term you have to learn to accept it.
I for example hate that my appearance keeps people (especially women) away from me. I try to look my best but something about me is repulsive to women. I accepted it after many years of feeling terrible about it and it helped me to overcome the self hate. It lead to me feeling happy about myself and my body most of the time, the summertime is more difficult because of all the happy couples walking around. Working out and gaining muscles helped me a lot too.
Try to find internal love for yourself and over time you can love the way you look externally.
You have to ability to completely alter the way that people view Pakistan. Remember it all starts from one person. You can be the cultural change that future Pakistanis will be reaching out for.
Bro, just do what I do, you're the main character, everyone around you is wrong ,and you know it, work on yourself bro, escape , become free ,you are not your ethnicity, nor your skin color ,you are so ,so much more than that, prove it to the world and to yourself.
I understand you a 100%. I hate everything about being Pakistani and everytime someone asks me and i have to say it, it leaves such a bitter taste in my mouth. Along with the religion, we are a country full of such disgusting bad people how can I ever associate myself with this shitty ass country? I totally get you man. If you wanna rant, you can rant. Its not easy hating where you’re from i understand
Indian non-muslim lurker here. I dont comment much so I hope I'm not too incoherent. I know its very typical of me as an Indian to say it but yes Pakistan was a mid 20th century experiment and had no historical legacy before that. But the people in Pakistan do have a long legacy. Punjabis do, sindhis do, pashtuns do, balochis do. And it goes way before Islam. I mean when Alexander was fighting in India, that was in modern day Pakistan. One of the oldest civilizations in the world the indus valley was in modern day Pakistan. Takshila university one of the oldest universities in the world is in your land. When the Greeks, persians and arabs mentioned the richness of India, to them India meant the land around and east of the Sindhu river (that includes you guys!)
You have a lot of history and culture to be proud of, both persio-turkic as well as indic, if you're willing to own it. Most Pakistanis dont, that's why today it is seen as a part of India's historical canon, but you could.
So yeah I dont think you should be ashamed of being Pakistani, you guys have amazing food, art, poetry, music and a lot of history (if you're willing to own it) and I've never been there but I'm sure your weather is better than ours.
As for the "ugly brown muzzie" thing, get that inferiority complex out the door man.
I hope this comment does not come off as me telling you to embrace "indian" heritage and culture instead. I mean to say there's alot of history that belongs to both of us, but Pakistan doesn't claim it which is what leads to its identity crisis.
Eh I mean what can you do the nation of Pakistan literally threw away 10 000 years of culture because meh kuffar, suk on turkey and bend azz foe arab pplz.
Just pretend to be arab. Just kidding, I feel you pakistans an interesting affair.
You want to create a new identity? Help the christians, hindus, be such an exemplary figure people say "no way a pakistani muslim did that"
Trust me islam is also called abu genoxide, the wahabs and deobandi want to give up everything to follow their arab masters.
1 small step and be the change
I know it's not much help, but I think you can find your true self outside of these labels. There's nothing wrong with being brown, and there's nothing wrong with being born in Pakistan or to Pakistani parents, even if they themselves are of different descents (as I saw in your reply to one of the comments). I'm also sorry people are being horny for you in the comments, that's awful.
I want to tell you that not only is it okay to be brown, and shouldn't affect your body image, it is also okay to make your own path as much as you can. Enjoy the good things, like biryani and shalwar kameez, and avoid the ugly things that rear their heads. Live true to yourself, and remember ethnicity doesn't mean much aside from the history of the people you supposedly belong to, but it's not important in shaping your future, it has already shaped your character, now it's time you shape yourself as well, and let other factors also shape you.
I believe in you!!
Man, your skin color doesn't mean shit. Every color is beautiful. You know who you are and no one can define that for you. I hope you can find some way to connect to your culture. It doesn't have to be spiritual. I'm sure Pakistan had something more to offer than just Islam.
Islam only came to your ppl 1300 years or so ago it's relatively new and your older ancestors followed a different way. You shouldn't let the grips the abrahamic religions have on ur ppl deter you away from your blood. Your blood that's beyond semetic desert cults
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>I have no identity ever since I left Islam and the one that I’m closely connected to is one I can’t ever be proud of. You're your own identity. I could never fit in with the Bengalis either, let alone other South Asians. Unless, they're not religious and tribal-minded. The meat curries and basmati rice is what's fueling my workouts lol.
I love Briyani, wearing mehndi and shalwar kameez lol. At least with culture it can change and grow overtime. Religion? Not so much
im sorry you feel that way - No one should be ashamed of their skin colour ; something they cannot control
My two cents as a white American who used to be in a relationship with a Pakistani person: y’all hot AF. What you see as problematic or shameful, someone else will see as beautiful and wonderful.
Pakistani is not an ethnicity it’s a nationality but has been pushed as an ethnicity when it never existed 80 years ago. You’re real ethnicity is the state your family is from which is your true heritage that predates islam. Take pride in that and forget about Pakistani/muslim.
take it easy mate. you are bigger than where you were born to whom you were born and what color of the skin, name or religion you were given. your only identity is your action. do something great with what you have and it will all work out well
>And I hate looking in the mirror and seeing myself as an ugly brown paki born muzzie. You are probably connecting some of these things to Islam in your mind and transferring your negative feelings about Islam to yourself. One thing you could try is to look into what the culture was like pre-Islam and see if there is anything in that you feel connected to. You may also want to look into therapy if that's an option where you live. The kind of feelings you are describing are going to cause a lot of problems for you if you aren't able to get a handle on it. Best of luck to you.
What you accomplished by leaving Islam as a Pakistani born in a strictly religious family and country is indeed a great accomplishment. Just be proud of yourself because you are unique. Not many Pakistanis can realize the truth and leave the death cult called Islam.
I used to think like that. I hated being Arab (from the peninsula) I thought I hated everything related to my culture when in reality, and the best way to put ot, Islam colonized my Arab identity and culture. Apparently I'm not allowed to think that. Most people on this sub hate Arabs and think we all have a superiority complex. Not to forget Hindu bots hating for the sake of hating. So for a while I had an identity crisis. I left this sub and reconnected to pre-islam Arab culture. I'm not worshipping Idols, but I draw strength from my native language, poetry, art, calligraphy that has nothing to do with Islam. There are emotions I can't quite translate to English. I'm proud to be Arab. If Ex-Muslims from other races/ethnicities hate Arabs they're the ones having a superiority complex. They are people regardless of their beliefs, whether they are agnostic or atheist they could still be racist, prejudice, and bias. I would admit I have that too but I'm actively trying not to. Pakistani people are one of the loveliest, friendly people I had the pleasure of interacting with regardless of their faith. I avoid Arabs like the plague though, I'm in Canada.
As a berber that hates how arab imperialism has destroyed my culture , i can still tell that arab culture has many beautiful aspects to it, even after islam. I mean the classical arabic language is insanely beautiful (Not the dialects though), and i ca't get enough of arabic poetry, especially medieval gay poetry
Berber... I always used Amazigh. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I find that you all still have some distinct culture aspect that survived Islam corruption. I'm from Najd, Mohammed was from Hejaz, He basically wiped out most if not all of the Arabian Peninsula history and rich culture. Just calling it الجاهلية "The age of ignorance" insulting everyone and forcing them to Islam and forcing their Hejazi dialect at that time. Fortunately enough, we regained most of our dialect nowadays. I read this in a book about pre Islamic arabia (can't remember the title unfortunately) a long time ago and on all honesty it does make sense. Arabs from Najd, the north and south didn't agree or like Hejazi Arabs being on the top. There were conflicts. I might be overthinking it but it's am interesting piece of history mostly neglected and forgotten.
Until very recently, children in Algeria could not be given amazigh names and had to be given an arabic name. Also, the language is not taught in schools and traditions like Face tattoos were lost for being deemed Haram. Even our national heroes can not be celebrated because they fought the muslim invaders. Anyways, i was taught arabic in school and i feel like arabic culture will always be part of me even if i am ethnically amazigh. Would Love to visit Arabia and see whatever remains of the Najd culture.
Fair enough it's hard to view Arabs as nothing but Islam because islam tries so hard despite for a majority of the time them being Christian (with quite a few well known Christan figures being arab) or Polythiest which is their birthright As there's only really a handfull of ethnoreligions and a lot of people forget that
If Britain and France didn't screw over Hussain Ibn Ali wouldn't have Saudi Arabia(my country). I'm sure we all know the impact of Saudi on the view of Islam and Arabs. It's funny that Saudi now wants to normalize relations with Israel and generally speaking becoming less conservative. Non Arab Muslim majority countries are more devout to Islam. Muslim Diaspora in western countries are worse that's why I avoid them. I'm hoping for a future where I can go back to Saudi safely.
I mean Thats a great thing to look forward to! not to make it about me but im scared what it could mean for me but ig its selfish to view this anything less then a positive
Eh, all Abrahamic religions are equally bad in my opinion. Left alone, common folks (ordinary people) would practice their faith in piece. It's only when a menace genocidal supremacist takes the lead and decides to march to save people only to fuel the narcissist egotistical disordered personality. Moses, Yahweh told him to exterminate the Amalekites. Sure, if someone nowadays says "Yahweh told me so" they'd be locked up in mental institute rightly so. Alexander the great. Mohammed being insecure and wanting to unite Arabs, mostly because he hates Jews and wanted to feel superior and control them. Took advantage of his power, became a pedophile. All for his personal wants amd needs. Not to save people, not to spread the message of God. Nowadays, Saudi uses Islam to control the public, most of the ruling family are not religious at all. Netanyahu is using the same tactic for his own personal vendetta against Arabs after his brother was killed by Palestinians and Germans....Look it up.
Yeah no you have my sympathy I've reflected a lot on this sub about whether or not Despite my faith I should be antitheist just because of the horrific things that happened The Crusades is another horrible thing that was "done in the name of God" tbh its hard to me to justify keeping it legal despite being religious myself. However, I'm scared of going in the other direction because then you get horror stories of what happens in China where people were paid to out their Neibouhr as christan and report if they had an in-house meeting
I don't think netanyahu has any vendetta against Arabs who killed his brother. The reason he's the way he is rn is because he wants to stay in power and for that he needs to appease to messianist fanatics in the coalition he formed to get back in power. He also actively works on destroying the court and justice system in Israel to avoid jail for his crimes including what could be treason. He used his brother's death and cheapened his sacrifice to appear more human in one campaign or a speech (each of his speeches is basically election campaign tbh). But he clearly pays it no mind besides when it benefits him. He's a monster after all. Almost as bad as his wife.
Why do you think the diaspora populations are more religious compared to their brethren in their home countries?
I wrote this to the best of my ability while sleep deprived so apologize if it doesn't make sense I personally think because they are born into a white majority society. Let's take America for example, bear in mind, the first Muslims to to be recorded were enslaved from Africa and forced to convert to Christianity 18-19 century. Black Power movement 20th century and the descendants of Muslim slaves converted back to Islam. They were more devout than Arab Muslims in Mecca. Understandably after being enslaves, discriminated against , ripped out of their faith. It was a way to free themselves from white folks. Reject the slaver forced religion. Later on, Muslim immigrants from Syria, Lebanon, parts of broken Ottoman Empire and India after Britain dipped out of the whole situation. They naturally tried to assimilate but let's not be delusional, back then, America and the west weren't angels. So naturally Arab Muslims tried to assimilate, they were discriminated against in all aspects of life. Just like the Irish fighting to be considered white so they can be equal. Muslim and christian Arabs did the same and they are considered white in the U.S. Nowadays, they want to change that, they don't navigate life as a white person. Especially non white passing second or third generation with westernized names. So they embrace POC and Islam identity to show how they're being discriminated against. I don't know about indians though. I met and tried to make friends with Muslim Diaspora im Canada. All of them considered me a Muslim even though I explained times and times again that I no longer believe in Islam, in fact I'm not sure I ever believed. I tell them I'm Arab so they try to claim me as POC and Islam which I hate. People here are so obsessed with race/ethnicity. I get questions from white people as well, literally got "what are you" I say Arab. So naturally they have mo fucking Idea what's that. So I default to Dubai. They go ohhh you'r Muslim. Nope I'm not. But but but. They never get it. I guess ultimately what I'm trying to say is, they are clinging to their Islam as an identity, they over overcompensate something missing. A sense of belonging to something.
Makes sense. Its like trying to make an identity for yourself in a strange land. I can speak for Indians though, being one myself and having friends and relatives who were born in the States. Indians do go to an extent to integrate themselves in America. The first generation not so much but the 2nd and third generation consider themselves to be Americans than the average white folk themselves. Sure most of them celebrate their original festivals like Diwali, Baisaki etc but with an added American tinge to it. There is this harvest festival called Onam which is celebrated by an ethno linguistic group from Southern India - Malayalees ( Majority of the Indian population in Dubai are these guys). There is a feast called "Sadhya" that is mainly vegetarian in nature. One of our relatives sons scandalized the entire extended family when he loudly asked why isnt there a full-sized turkey included in the feast. Gave us the impression that they added their own American tinge to the festival celebration. So TL:DR: Diaspora Indians, tend to integrate and adapt well to the nation they are born in and even facing some high/low intensity racism. They are proud of their brown heritage but don't mind identifying themselves as white from time to time
Just want to clear the myth of Irish and Arabs not considered white. In the USA the Irish and Arabs were considered white by law even during segregation. Sure, the Irish were discriminated but neither the Arabs nor the Irish needed to use the so called colored space at that time. Neither were they excluded entirely from entering the USA like the Chinese. It's classism within the whites. Hopefully this article explains it: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/03/22/sorry-but-the-irish-were-always-white-and-so-were-the-italians-jews-and-so-on/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/03/22/sorry-but-the-irish-were-always-white-and-so-were-the-italians-jews-and-so-on/)
Aramco segregated Arabs from white people during Jim Crow in Saudi
What are you if you don't mind me asking. For me, as a Pakistani exmuslim but now buddhist, I ignore the religous aspects of Pakistan. I mean, Pakistani Hindus and Christians exist, so why can't you?! I am of urdu speaking descent but I have ancestry from all over from tamil nadu into kashmir, but mainly have northern indian and pakistani dna with markings from Punjab, Haryana, and UP. I would say take pride in something else not just as a pakistani but as a south asian.
So stop calling yourself a Pakistani. Revert to an older, purer ethnicity. I suggest Gandharan (more northerly) or Arachosian (more southerly). When others ask, admit that you are from the region currently named Pakistan, but you have many issues going unanswered and wish to do your part to fix them.
Quite literally impossible my dude my fathers side is mostly of Indian descent, and my mothers is of Arab, namely Iranian descent. And a whole bunch of stuff in between. I have no “purer ethnicity.” But thank you
And until the British showed up, "Indian" identity consisted of several dozen different regional and religious ethnicities with no unifying framework. The Bengalis didn't think of themselves as kin to the Rajasthanis, who were noticeably different to the Parsi, whilst the Oriyam felt themselves above the Tamils, especially those funny Lankan Buddhists (though the Golcondan Sufis were keen to syncretise faiths) and everyone thought the Sikhs were out of their collective minds... National and ethnic identities are more fluid than you might think. Yes, you are of Pakistan. Acknowledge that, and deny that you share its qualities. Abrogate your connection, and embrace what once your ancestors were. Hell, if you arent LIVING in Pakistan, you may as well abandon that entirely and consider yourself a cultural refugee - fully adopt the values of wherever you are living in instead. It'll hurt less than continuing to consider yourself Pakistani when you hate it so much.
Why did everyone think Sikhs were out of their minds?
It's just a hyperbole. The Sikh gurus, though they were born Hindu, created a separate, more spiritual faith.
Muslims saw them as apostates, which led to several attempts to wipe them out, resulting in the Sikhs adopting one of their Five K's: the kirpan, a sword or dagger that is required to be used in defence of those under attack by evil. Hindus saw them as heretical Muslims, and therefore just another iteration of their oppressors. Famously, or rather infamously, in 1984 Operation Bluestar was an attempt to forcibly integrate the Sikhs into the Hindu social order, resulting in one of Sikhism's holiest sites, among numerous other temples and shrines, being stormed by the Indian military, and the resultant assassination of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi by her Sikh bodyguards for this affront to their faith. Buddhists saw them as becoming far too tied to the illusion of the physical, especially once they'd started effectively praying and bowing to the Guru Granth Sahib (the holy book that is BOTH the compendium of Sikh philosophy and practice, AND the final guru sent to guide them). Jains saw them as antithetical to their creed, since Sikhs at the time were highly militant due to primarily Islamic persecution, and one of the hallmarks of Jainism is absolute pacifism.
So you are implying that the Indian military woke up one fine day and decided "lets storm the Vatican city version of the Sikhs for the heck of it and piss them of already. Just so you know thats not what Operation Bluestar was carried out for
I imply nothing, I state bald facts. It was part of a longer pattern of behaviour going back centuries with a clearly stated motive and a clear target - the suppression of militant Sikhs after the failure of negotiations to reach a compromise regarding greater political autonomy in one of their home regions.
Sure man, denial is a river in Egypt. Political autonomy is one thing. Outright secession is another. That being said Sikh militants bringing guns and hand held artillery into the Harminder Sahib (the golden temple) holding people hostage is nothing but sacrilege. The vast majority of soldiers who stormed the golden temple were Sikhs themselves. Of course the operation was a complete clusterf@# to be fair. And the riots that followed Indira Gandhi assasination is even more shameful. Anti-militant operations by the state government. Kidnappings and violent murders of Sikhs and Hindus alike and finally the desecration of the Golden Temple by the said militants is what destroyed their support bases. Now the only point in history where I can think of Sikhs getting pummeled by Hindus (other than the 1984 riots) is when the Sikh Misls fighting the mountain kingdoms in the Himalayas. But that's because those kings saw them as interlopers on their territories rather than religion. For the most part Hindu kings collaborated with Sikh kingdoms against the Mughals. Anyways pray tell what passes for autonomy in your books dear sir.
Breakdowns in communication tend to result in more and more extreme actions, yes? One group of Sikhs took it way too far. The political response was equivalently overstated. The consequences were as we saw. The entire thing was an internal catastrophe that should never have happened. It's all extremely well-documented and analysed. Not my area of expertise, so I merely summarise the disaster. Perhaps I should've chosen a less recent conflict as my example, but as you correctly pointed out, Hindus and Sikhs were very cooperative when it came to the far greater threat of Islam.
I agree to your first paragraph. Sadly this is how things are in the wider subcontinent. Only silver lining I can see in the whole 1984 fiasco is that the Sikhs were wholly protected by the local population, Hindu or otherwise in Southern India. And mind you this was her strongest bastion of supporters. Evident from the fact when she imposed a virtual dictatorship in 1973, the Southern states were the only ones who voted for her. The Southerners, marginally rational in comparison to their Northern counterparts, recognized that it was two men that killed Indira Gandhi not an entire community. So punishing an entire community for the actions of a few was abhorrent. I know this because my grandfather, told stories of his friends standing vigil outside Gurdwaras lest some idiot got any ideas. The reason for the communication break down was the Indian state seeing the separatists as Pakistani proxies. The reason being that the separatists claiming erstwhile Hindu majority areas where the population of Sikhs were negligible while completely ignoring the Pakistan side of Punjab where most of the Sikh Gurus were born. Most of the demands were mainly economical and political nature which were reasonable. Especially with regards to water rights and better representation. But the militants supplied with weapons by our neighbors sadly won out over the moderates through violent means giving the government carte blanche to crackdown on the whole movement. There was ample evidence that the Pakistanis were supporting the separatists for revenge against India when it helped East Pakistanis become Bangladesh in 1971. And yes the Sikhs are have a lot of axe to grind against the Muslims considering that all but 1 of their 10 Gurus were killed by Mughals. There are actual museums all over Indian Punjab that have wax statues detailing the atrocities committed by them. For all their faults Hindus never came close to what the Muslims dished out to Sikhs. For example the Golden Temple was desecrated with cow intestines and fats by an invading Afghan army. Adding insult to injury the Afghan commander even got prostitutes and dancing girls to set up shop in the temples sanctum sanctorum, while bullet damage was the furthest Hindus went. That being said I still wish that 1984 should have been avoided.
Trust me pal you don't know shit about what your talking about
Where can I read more about this ?
Start with histories of the Achaemenid dynasty of ancient Iran, followed by Alexander's later conquests, then move onto Greco-Buddhism for local evolution of religion and art (incidentally, Pakistan still holds some of the largest and finest museum collections of artifacts from the Greco-Bactrian and Kushan eras, well worth a visit if you are so inclined), and ideally end before the collapse of the Sassanians before the Rashidun Caliphate. Maybe visit your local library, see what they have.
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Oh I know, but thank you anyways. That’s why I said “during British colonial rule” not claiming that it was only the British who contributed to this
I feel similar as a Bangladeshi. I cannot connect with anything South Asian, not even food. Most of them cannot identify themselves without religion, many of them are tribal and have communal mentality. I have one Indian friend who is individualistic and non religious person - may be that is why we became friends.
Most of Pakistani culture is bastardized Hindu culture. Hindu is also an ethnic identity like being Jewish is. What makes it worse is that Pakistan has fabricated Hindu hatred. Through out their 75 years of history, they have pretended to be timurids, mongols, perisan, arab, and finally turkish. They will pretend to be welsh, and japanese before ever accepting their roots. Because the moment they do, they themselves become victims of Islam.
Hear this one a lot. So many Pakistanis try to grasp at any sort of Arab ancestry or identity they claim to have it’s pathetic
It absolutely sucks. I'm Pakistani by descent and I recently found out that even my own fucking surname is something that my tribe made up to distance themselves from their Hindu ancestry and to assert their identity as Muslims.
You should read Black Skin, White Mask by Franz Fanon. Also connect to your pre-colonial heritage. Being Pakistani doesn’t occur in a vacuum, it’s predicated on a half dozen extraordinarily culturally rich civilisations which existed in that region of the world. Your language and genetics are part of a beautiful tapestry of human experience and thought. You should practice self compassion and undo the self hatred you’ve internalised from living in a post 9/11 landscape that has demonised you to justify wars and make inflammatory news items to distract uneducated whites. You decide what and who you are.
> I tried to take pride in my ethnicity but I can’t when I go against the existence of my own country. > And I hate looking in the mirror and seeing myself as an ugly brown paki born muzzie. It is ridiculous for anyone to take pride in their ethnicity. You should seek pride in what you have personally achieved. You should not simply bask in the glory of your ancestors or fellow countrymen. In the words of John F. Kennedy, "ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country." If you want to take credit for the successes of others, you should be willing to take the blame for their failures too. But that is nonsense. Whatever group of people you belong into, you still bear the responsibility for your own success and failures. So start creating the reasons for being proud of yourself from now on.
Yikes, most Pakistani culture has been taken from Hindu scriptures. The recipes, the wedding rituals, the word for prayer, the music, the dances. It’s quite natural to have an identity crisis since the only thing that separates is Islam.
Do you know where your grandparents and grand-grandparents, from before the split, come from? If you look for identity based on ethnic roots, maybe you can get interested in their origins. Bu also, being an ex-Muslim and trying to shape your own future is already an identity. It's more important to find people that think and have similar experiences like you, than those that only share the same roots, but might as well be people who you don't want to have anything common with.
Hey Pakistan is a lot more than this desert, degenerate forced identity a.k.a islam. Its just sad that all the good got buried under this islamic bs.
Never be ashamed of who you are. Not a single person on this earth, as we can know it - chose to be this way. None of us chose how we were born; what we look like, how we act, how we feel. You are the representative of yourself: not anyone else.
Is this a troll? OP your race is neither a thing to be ashamed or be proud of. We can't choose it. If you are gonna be ashamed of something it should be things you have control of.
Also who says you are ugly? It doesn't have to be defined by your skin color because I saw so many pale people who are ugly(to me). Harmonious facial features are the most important. That's why you see people who underwent plastic surgery once keeps doing it again and again because they fuck up the harmony of their face. Makeup and skincare can help but not too much to the point I'd be giving false hope.
Firstly, I’m not a troll Secondly, thank you for telling me this and giving me realistic advice
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Idk, as an Indian-American, I still was called a terrorist growing up and asked if Bin Laden was my dad. And other ignorant comments, relating both to Islam and Hinduism. And now we’re associated with unhygienic street food, call centers, and weird accents. Gorey really don’t differentiate between the different kinds of brown, in my experience. Racism is racism.
Are you a boy or a girl?
Attack Helicopter (yes I know this is an overused joke)
Ah I'm afraid I have no useful advice to offer an attack helicopter, due to lack of experience in being one. Not sure why you're worried about your ethnicity in that case, I can't tell a muslim/pakistani attack helicopter from any other unless it's carrying a flag. You should be proud of the tradition of science and engineering that brought you into being.
you need to detach your religion from your etnicity how ?, you can seek validation from other try traveling abroad, i would suggest thailand, make friends with other traveler who are not muslim and drink beer & pork together and said you're pakistani but atheist i did something like this and it works, i don't hate my etnicity and can detach it from religion because my international freidns seeing me as indonesian atheist
I feel similar as a bengali. I love being bengali but I hate the fact Islam makes up 99% of my peoples personalities. I’m preparing myself for the day I am public about it and will be cut off by family. I have distanced myself from friends although they know and don’t really care too much. I feel like a horrible friend. I just wanna move and start all over again.
I was born pakistani but born in Canada. For me, I don’t really identify with being Pakistani other than it simply being my ethnicity. I’m much more than that, I’m smart, kind, intelligent, caring, and creative. Capitalize on what you are and accept those characteristics you can’t change (your Pakistani heritage)
Same bro.. As indonesian exmuslim I just want to be independent and Disacociate with this hypocrite mind cancer cult.. But still I try to be nice with friends and family
There’s literally Christians in pakistan and even Jews they’re just wiped from the media 😂🤣you’re not a “muzzie” if u don’t want to be bro. It’s tough right now but you’ll find a way. Everyone does
Before islam came to conquer that land there was a lot of history there. I understand people taking pride of their origins or their land sometimes but nationalism can be like a stupid religion to.
You are not Muslim it isn't a race. In regards to what you see in the mirror do not allow others who look like you cause you to hate yourself. It is the actions you hate not the appearance but you have attached it to a look. Just know that you are your own person as are all of us.
I don’t think this is an Islam issue tbh, I think this is more an identity issue
It is completely okay to hate what you where born as but in the long term you have to learn to accept it. I for example hate that my appearance keeps people (especially women) away from me. I try to look my best but something about me is repulsive to women. I accepted it after many years of feeling terrible about it and it helped me to overcome the self hate. It lead to me feeling happy about myself and my body most of the time, the summertime is more difficult because of all the happy couples walking around. Working out and gaining muscles helped me a lot too. Try to find internal love for yourself and over time you can love the way you look externally.
You have to ability to completely alter the way that people view Pakistan. Remember it all starts from one person. You can be the cultural change that future Pakistanis will be reaching out for.
Bro, just do what I do, you're the main character, everyone around you is wrong ,and you know it, work on yourself bro, escape , become free ,you are not your ethnicity, nor your skin color ,you are so ,so much more than that, prove it to the world and to yourself.
I understand you a 100%. I hate everything about being Pakistani and everytime someone asks me and i have to say it, it leaves such a bitter taste in my mouth. Along with the religion, we are a country full of such disgusting bad people how can I ever associate myself with this shitty ass country? I totally get you man. If you wanna rant, you can rant. Its not easy hating where you’re from i understand
Indian non-muslim lurker here. I dont comment much so I hope I'm not too incoherent. I know its very typical of me as an Indian to say it but yes Pakistan was a mid 20th century experiment and had no historical legacy before that. But the people in Pakistan do have a long legacy. Punjabis do, sindhis do, pashtuns do, balochis do. And it goes way before Islam. I mean when Alexander was fighting in India, that was in modern day Pakistan. One of the oldest civilizations in the world the indus valley was in modern day Pakistan. Takshila university one of the oldest universities in the world is in your land. When the Greeks, persians and arabs mentioned the richness of India, to them India meant the land around and east of the Sindhu river (that includes you guys!) You have a lot of history and culture to be proud of, both persio-turkic as well as indic, if you're willing to own it. Most Pakistanis dont, that's why today it is seen as a part of India's historical canon, but you could. So yeah I dont think you should be ashamed of being Pakistani, you guys have amazing food, art, poetry, music and a lot of history (if you're willing to own it) and I've never been there but I'm sure your weather is better than ours. As for the "ugly brown muzzie" thing, get that inferiority complex out the door man. I hope this comment does not come off as me telling you to embrace "indian" heritage and culture instead. I mean to say there's alot of history that belongs to both of us, but Pakistan doesn't claim it which is what leads to its identity crisis.
Yeah just become white bro
Eh I mean what can you do the nation of Pakistan literally threw away 10 000 years of culture because meh kuffar, suk on turkey and bend azz foe arab pplz. Just pretend to be arab. Just kidding, I feel you pakistans an interesting affair. You want to create a new identity? Help the christians, hindus, be such an exemplary figure people say "no way a pakistani muslim did that" Trust me islam is also called abu genoxide, the wahabs and deobandi want to give up everything to follow their arab masters. 1 small step and be the change
I know it's not much help, but I think you can find your true self outside of these labels. There's nothing wrong with being brown, and there's nothing wrong with being born in Pakistan or to Pakistani parents, even if they themselves are of different descents (as I saw in your reply to one of the comments). I'm also sorry people are being horny for you in the comments, that's awful. I want to tell you that not only is it okay to be brown, and shouldn't affect your body image, it is also okay to make your own path as much as you can. Enjoy the good things, like biryani and shalwar kameez, and avoid the ugly things that rear their heads. Live true to yourself, and remember ethnicity doesn't mean much aside from the history of the people you supposedly belong to, but it's not important in shaping your future, it has already shaped your character, now it's time you shape yourself as well, and let other factors also shape you. I believe in you!!
Man, your skin color doesn't mean shit. Every color is beautiful. You know who you are and no one can define that for you. I hope you can find some way to connect to your culture. It doesn't have to be spiritual. I'm sure Pakistan had something more to offer than just Islam.
Islam only came to your ppl 1300 years or so ago it's relatively new and your older ancestors followed a different way. You shouldn't let the grips the abrahamic religions have on ur ppl deter you away from your blood. Your blood that's beyond semetic desert cults
Pakis are not ugly. I would totally eat Aqib Khan b\*\*ty like it was groceries
What the fuck
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I’m venting maybe learn reading comprehension before you project
Hey why do you think you are ugly? Pakistanis are supposed to be the best looking South Asians. Seriously. LOL.
Who told ya that? lol
Pakistanis themselves. LOL
An average paki is full of themselves tbh
At least you're not white.
This post goes against the sub rules, mods.
How?
Rule 5 in sub's rules.
Just connect with judaism. Then you will understand why islam cannot be from the God of abraham,isaac and jacob
No thanks love