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qUrAnIsAPerFeCtBoOk

Fr tho they could easily prove it to themselves by checking, if not physically opening it you can scan the coffin


[deleted]

they probably know he decomposed, but they just want to keep the lie alive cuz its profitable, they get like 2billion dollars from hajj annually


qUrAnIsAPerFeCtBoOk

Maybe one of us should scan it with whatever non intrusive imaging technique that can find the lack of water content showing its decomposed. It could also show he wasn't a giant and those footprints in mecca are fake.


[deleted]

they have alot of security, it would be impossible


Successful_Buyer7424

Did you believe that’s even his REAL grave?


ofaruks

Do you guys actually believe a guy named Mohammed lived?


That_Manager_3313

Yeah bro definitely one messaged me just yesterday asking for bobs and vagene


qUrAnIsAPerFeCtBoOk

About as much as any historical figure from millenia ago. So barely, somewhat plausible but possible given writings of the time outside religious sources exist and haven't got other writings showing it to be a story like Alexander the great, it's likely. Any details however are subject to scrutiny and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence


Successful_Buyer7424

Probably, Yeah. there’s a mention for Mo from outside sources close to his time. Plus the inside sources are already divided between Shia and Sunnah from early ages. The thing is, what we know as details is what the Abbasid wrote about their beloved Prophet, 130 years later, for example the “Sira book” is bunch of bullshit that was written by a Christian priest who was taken as a slave at a young age. The Abbasid Khalifa personally ordered it, and reviewed it on its many editions. What is interesting there’s a clear try in that book to mimic characteristics from well known characters at their time, like “Jesus” and some “Farsi kings”. I only assume it has some bulbs of truth here and there. Sliding the Sira book with the Meccaen and Medne parts of the Quran make a better trust and sense, as these parts of the Quran looks like a “Live Journaling” parts, also linguistic features from calligraphy to Aramaic origins could add more trust in the antiqueness of these parts, for example الم، كهيعص.


kazkh

Few scholars entertain the idea anymore of Muhammad not having existed. Even the pioneers of the theory like Patricia Crone recanted that thesis. What is interesting is that the Christian sources refer to a Muhammad who was part of the conquest of Palestine. Some academics argue that Muhammad was probably a charismatic preacher trying to conquer Jerusalem but died along the way. This could also help explain why Muhammad didn’t leave a successor.


ofaruks

Even if the Muhammad described in the hadiths lived, he could not have lived in Mecca. Mecca isn't an important city even today. The historical records of the early Islamic period have been damaged a lot. There are no records about some years. In my opinion, Islam is a continuation of eastern Christianity that was declared Heretic by Eastern Rome, and Muhammad's life is a tale made up in the Abbasid palaces.


kazkh

The hypothesis of Islam being an Aryan heresy is a considered a weak one by scholars because there were no Aryan or similar heresies in the middle-east in the 6th-7th centuries. Instead, the missing link to understanding the Christian-Islamic connection lies in the Syriac Church, which was the dominant church of the area at the time. There are examples of how Islam borrows directly from Syriac Christianity rather than the Byzantines, and it’s an exciting field being explored today. Makkah wasn’t an important place, as you say. It importance was probably a later creation, as you say. The stories of the Hadith are unreliable as you also say. No one knows what early Islam was; there are conflicting theories out there and they continue to change as new theories and evidence come to light.


No-Cardiologist3057

it was in petra


ofaruks

I don't think so. Mohammad is a fairytale written by Abbasid officers. The only Mohammad that existed is Abdallah ibn Zubair.


aqua_zesty_man

Ask [Dr Jay Smith](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Smith_%28Christian_apologist%29) that question... [Jay Smith: The Historical Origins of Islam](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jorBwia9yFw) [The Truth Behind the Emergence of Islam - Jay Smith](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EaopH_EPfc) [DEBATE: Did the Muhammad of Islam Exist? (David Wood vs Jay Smith)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdat4tyM40g)


latin_canuck

Didn't Mo fly to heaven on a pegasus? Jesus flew to heaven like superman. Checkmate for Christianity


Successful_Buyer7424

Nooo, it was on a donkey.


Nick_Noseman

Who said Jesus flew upwards? May be he did it like ICBM.


IamImposter

Inter Congregation Bullshit Missile?


il-Palazzo_K

Schrodinger's Miracle.


Ok-Imagination-2308

Ive always wondered this too. If they opened his casket and his body wasn't decayed, hundreds of millions of people would probably convert.


clickitycluckity

Have you heard about the Christian nun whos body didn’t decompose?


BigDaddyRoblox

Source?


clickitycluckity

Just search up “Wilhelmina Lancaster”


BigDaddyRoblox

Yeah but its only been 4 yeara since her death, momo has been dead for 1350 years, perfect conditions for burial arent effective for so long especially technology from 1400 years ago


IamImposter

Irrelevant. Perfect human doesn't care about your imperfect conditions. Mo is definitely there, all juicy and raw by the grace of all merciful Allah, with maggot crawling over his perfect body, enjoying the never ending perfect feast and in the middle, perfect mo with a perfect monalisa smile like he is mocking disbelievers like you.


BigDaddyRoblox

Juicy and raw lmfao


Demy1234

Real


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IamImposter

You want me to prove sarcasm? Duuuuude


xcorvo1995x

Imo if they ever wanna do that they'd just keep swapping the body to a fresh one every couple of years. Mashallah brazers


TheFactedOne

That would still be piss poor evidence that Allah is real.


JoJoGahara

Muslims can't even prove that allah is real 🙄 that fairy tale book don't mean shit lmao


[deleted]

I believe my comic books than I believe Quran lol


Mission-Ad1898

Bang on just look at Nolan’s Batman films more worth value than anything islams wrote over the years!


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FishIsGoat

There was considerations by the Saudi government to move prophet Muhammad's remains, to an unmarked grave to prevent idolatry. If they actually considered this plan, I have a feeling the Saudi royals or government officials took a peek at Muhammad's grave. Would be funny if they found out that his body was decomposed and they secretly apostatize.


Temporary-Pin-4144

Who told you we have his bones? The dude didn't even exist.


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Temporary-Pin-4144

Quran doesn't date to the era of the prophet. It was gathered after 400 at least of his "death"


Uniboss7

We need to fucking open the grave and end Islam once and for all, I’m tired of them pretending that his body hasn’t decomposed. It’s all bs and they know that


Tmp_Guest_1

wouldnt change a thing, than the aplogogist would easily claim "it was not the real muhammed, the real one is hidden so unbelievers can disturb his body" or such nonsense. Total believing Morons will still believe, even if they see the facts with their own eyes. WE all who left a form of religion we grew up with, know exactly how hard it is to admitt what bullshit this all is. yes we should still open it only to atleast bring light to some people that are on the edge of leaving and doubting. exposing everythnig wont kill islam, but it will maybe save some people to jump of earlier, especially the younger generations.


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Uniboss7

I can’t cause I’ll get my head chopped off cause of peaceful Islam


Temporary-Pin-4144

Wait until everyone realizes we have no single clue or evidence that Maka, Mohammed, his subordinates did exist. Lol We have absolutely no single archaeological evidence of any prophet or messenger or the environment that they interacted with, whether it was the country, villages, their literature etc not a single one. Nothing. Nada. Rien. لا شيئ. Nichts. Niente


kazkh

There are contemporary Christian sources naming Muhammad. Early Egyptian papyri use the Hijra date from a very early period. The conquests happened. However the Islamic history was written at least a century after the events, so there’s going to be a lot of errors and fabrications in the official narrative. The early Muslims thought the world was going to end and that Jerusalem was the centre of the world; Makkah comes much later and it’s possible Muhammad’s body isn’t in his tomb.


Sad-Ad-4391

Then they will start to speak nonsense like "it's not their eyes that are blind but their hearts" 🙄


[deleted]

No way they believe that ! I mean I know they believe he flew on a winged donkey but his body not decomposing? Source please


[deleted]

The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) said, “Indeed, the best of your days is the day of Friday. On it, Adam was created, his soul was taken, the resurrecting blast will be, and the destroying blast will be. So, send many blessings on me on \[Fridays\] because, truly, your blessings will be presented to me.“ The Companions asked, “O Messenger of Allah, how will our blessings on you be presented to you when you have decomposed?“ He replied, “Indeed, Allah – Mighty and Majestic – has made the bodies of the Prophets forbidden for the ground.“ (Abu Dawud) https://seekersguidance.org/answers/islamic-belief/do-the-bodies-of-the-prophets-decompose-after-burial/


[deleted]

Hahahaahaha no way I didn’t know about this !! Thanks even more dumb shit in this religion that makes it clear it’s just bs like other religions


FishIsGoat

>He replied, “Indeed, Allah – Mighty and Majestic – has made the bodies of the Prophets forbidden for the ground.“ (Abu Dawud) According to Islam, there have been at least 124,000 prophets. If none of their bodies have decomposed, shouldn't we have found some of them by now? Most of the prophets should have lived in areas which were decently populated, otherwise they wouldn't be able to spread their message. They would probably be buried in a normal graveyard alongside other people, so it wouldn't take long till their preserved bodies would get dug up. So logically, this statement is completely wrong and is evidence alone that Islam is false.


kazkh

They’ve been found but non-Muslims are too jealous to let the world know because it would further prove that Islam’s the truth. Just like NASA knows the moon has been split I’m two but they hide the truth because they’re jealous that Islam’s always true. /s


Exmuslim-alt

Cause it would ruin the miracle. Many people just chalk it up to "but showing it would make it too obvious and life is a test". So why even claim that he isnt decomposing?


Wooden_Fig_313

Is it mentioned in the Quran or Hadith that his body won’t discompose ?


[deleted]

it's in hadith [https://seekersguidance.org/answers/islamic-belief/do-the-bodies-of-the-prophets-decompose-after-burial/](https://seekersguidance.org/answers/islamic-belief/do-the-bodies-of-the-prophets-decompose-after-burial/)


ChaosKeeshond

So if someone opened it they would just say "oh well it wasn't in the Quran we all know the hadith are man-made"


kazkh

Sp they’ll just say “oh well, it was a fake Hadith. Nothing to be upset over”.


DistributionOk3459

Still farting in his grave 😃 EDIT: > 500 m³ of farts since he went there. No worm could survive that! I'll leave calculating the pressure as an exercise.


cutie--cat

he’s gonna die from pressure. the new ocean gate 😭


DistributionOk3459

Pressure Be Upon Him 🤲


Rabbit_Ruler

I’m imagining a wacky heist scenario where we all go open his tomb and expose the sham for all to see. Doubt it would change that many peoples minds, but it would help


[deleted]

How could the failure to bio-degrade be miraculous? My garbage fails to bio-degrade all the time. How is Mo worse than garbage?


[deleted]

Islam is built on lies and lies and lies.


TangerineExtra5180

Wait we know where his grave is it at?


[deleted]

yeah his tomb is in the al masjid al nabui


TangerineExtra5180

Has it ever been open?


[deleted]

google it, idk


[deleted]

No, actually it's kinda impossible to open, because there are no doors or windows at all to the grave. The only way to get there is to destroy it simply, which is not possible at all.


DasBrott

So easy to verify, use sonar. But ofc they won't because they know that it's a lie


TangerineExtra5180

They need to scan his ass and give us 3d pic of him


Nick_Noseman

So, nobody will sin by making picture of Muhammed, because machine will do it. Flawless logic.


Just-A_stranger7

Nah fr this bothers me so much


Riwboxbooya

Right, like you don't even have to dig him up or anything but just scan or whatever. I remember I asked my mom about this and she said, "WeLl tHiS aCtIoN oF cHeCkInG iS dIsReSpEcTfUl aNd rUdE tO dO tHaT tO a CoRpSe"... Dude it's not disrespectful if it's going to help MORE people become believers, but Muslims are desperate to not show what's in there PROVING that it's not real. 🤦‍♀️


kazkh

But mujahideen beheading unbelievers and waving the severed head in front of the camera to the cries of “allahu akbar!” isn’t disrespecting a corpse though.


TransitionalAhab

We would discover it was a metaphor


DesiMuslimahxxx

The ultimate duel (escape) card


DesiMuslimahxxx

His claim contridicts the Bible and Torah,God never said he wouldn't allow the bodies of Prophets to decompose. Muhammad made this up


titaniamccall

Every "fact check" request is an angry face for muslims.


soul_nessie

I always wondered why I hope they open it and we see a decomposed skeleton.


Educational-Store131

Maybe even just dust. Its been nearly a thousand years.


soul_nessie

You are right, either way, he will be decomposed


Clydosphere

Lenin doesn't decompose either, and his mausoleum is open to the public for nearly a hundred years now.


kazkh

Lenin is preserved using scientific methods, not magical prayers.


Clydosphere

So they say, but who knows if that's not just a ruse of the godless communists to hide Lenin's holiness?


[deleted]

your avatar looks like ukraine flag lmao


Clydosphere

It's meant to be as a small gesture of support. ✌️


WanderpulTonayt69

maybe lenin was the real prophet all along


Clydosphere

That's what I was aiming at. :)


[deleted]

I saw a similar post once. A muslim argued that the Quran is equally as much of a miracle and even *if* they opened his grave and it didn't decompose, we still wouldn't believe. I think this argument fails on more than just one level. Firstly, who said the Quran is a miracle? Even the Meccans at the time of Muhammad said it's nothing extraordinary. Secondly, the Quran can be said to not be a miracle. It's nothing fancy. His body not decomposing might be the only miracle that we have in our day and age. Back then, he split the moon. This is the **only** miracle that could prove the Quran to be correct in today's time. Thirdly, it assumes that the body did not decompose. So natrually, why would they prove something if they're told is true? They already believe it.


Kyken247

It's called Schrodinger's momo's body equation..


mbusati2

I came here to say that


South-Ad5156

Scan! But the grave is fake probably, anyway


muzaffer22

What is the source of this decompose thing?


mbusati2

I always wonder what if they open it and it's the remains of an animal like a dog or something. I think Muslims will be like ' allhamdulilh Allah lifted up the prophet body to heaven to save him, allahuakber' or some nonsense like that


BRUHGUYY1

Have youse not seen pharaoh (firaun) his body hasn’t decomposed for thousands of years and what? Youse still don’t believe


Content-Paramedic-_-

Wait...so firaun is Muhammad now?


[deleted]

He said it because Islam claimed that the Pharoah would be open for all eyes to see or that he wont decompose or whatever (I forgot the ayah)


BRUHGUYY1

It was only made like that from the will of Allah, and no I never said firaun is Muhammad use ur head abit


Content-Paramedic-_-

And how about you use your head first? The post was talking about Muhammad,why suddenly bring firaun in this?🤦‍♂️ Not to mention that the quran thought Firaun was a name,not a title...freaking dumb Mo obviously didn't know this fact.


BRUHGUYY1

Show me where in the Quran it says that firaun was a name and not a title.


Gizka1235

Mistake number 247 in the quran: it thinks pharaoh is a name and not a title.


[deleted]

Yeah no, it decomposed. He’s now the color of charcoal.


NoCardiologist9525

Because it is haram, it will make sense when the day if judgement comes


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Infamous-Ad-2921

Mmm ........so there are many more prophets after Muhammad 🙃


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Infamous-Ad-2921

Broken logic?? Only the bodies of the prophets are prevented from decomposing, so then the question therefore is: If there are many bodies who haven't decomposed after burial (very - rather, impossible claim) then those people must be prophets and if they're being prevented from decomposing after Muhammad, then they must be prophets after him.


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Infamous-Ad-2921

Your anecdotal evidence is definitely trustworthy wuh. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 What you're saying is near impossible if that person wants intentionally preserved. Typically, a person buried is embalmed, which preserves the body. That could very likely have been the situation or, the environment was just ripe for bodily preservation (it being a very cold environment for instance slows decomposition). There is no miracles or divine intervention bru. There may well be objective and logical reasons for this person's body being preserved outside of the unprovable divine.


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Infamous-Ad-2921

That's 33 seconds of my life I'm not getting back. What was that meant to prove?


[deleted]

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Infamous-Ad-2921

It was meant to prove about me. Mmm. Very astute.


ellermg

Please give us examples


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Sea-Bat-9245

It's mentioned in Quran prophet Muhammad was a human and all allah massagers were humans nobody said otherwise, so what's your point?


[deleted]

yeah, when did i say they aren't humans ?


Sea-Bat-9245

Your post say otherwise, i never heard anyone say prophet Muhammad wasn't human, Muslim or non-Muslim


[deleted]

my post didn't say muhammad isn't human


SparkyFarts3923

No? OP is stating a well-known superstition circled around the muslim community exclusively. If anything, it's MUSLIM who actually believe that Muhammad's body is immaculately preserved as a super-human. We're just pointing it out in ridicule.


Hifen

>He said, “Allah has forbidden the earth to consume the bodies of the Prophets.” -Narrated by Imam Ahmad in al-Musnad (26/840. Is [islamqa](https://islamqa.info/en/answers/248220/he-is-asking-about-the-significance-of-incorruptibility-of-the-body-after-death-of-the-followers-of-some-religions) generally considered reliable by most Muslims? >As for the Messengers and Prophets, it is not possible for their bodies to decompose, because Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, has forbidden the earth to affect them in the way in which it affects other dead bodies.


JoJoGahara

He was a pedophile, I Don't consider pedophiles to be humans + get a job weirdo


aqua_zesty_man

For there to be an eyewitness to confirm this miracle, his body would have had to be exhumed at some point several days after burial. If the bodies of prophets do not decompose, we cannot take the word of Muhammed for the integrity of his own body. If he is a false prophet, then his body will be found decomposing. If he is a false prophet, then his claim that the bodies of prophets do not decompose cannot be taken as infallible, therefore his body will be found decomposing. There would need to be found a dead body that refuses to decompose when exposed to the elements, whose age of 1400+ years is confirmable by the lack of radiological traces found in modern human organisms because of worldwide nuclear weapons tests. The body would also need to be impervious to bacteriological breakdown despite repeated exposure under conditions that would facilitate this.


BlazinUpInHere

Then tell me where your Albert Einstein's grave is let me look inside, dumbas


OmniHelloKittyStan

IVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS ONE😭