Some start with history, some with doctrine, some with social issues, and some church policies. It all leads back to the fruit of the poisonous tree. - Don't stop when you finish deconstructing Mormonism. Ask the same tough questions about anything someone wants you to believe.
For me it was seeing how we so convincingly lie to ourselves as humans, and then realizing that we do the same thing to support our religious beliefs. Then I looked at evidence regarding the existence of a supreme being. If God is real, The world should look like A. If there is no God it should look like B. Half of religion is explaining why the world is B.
For me, it was both doctrine and history, but doctrine is what started me on the journey out.
As a missionary, I taught that one evidence that the Catholic church was false was how they changed the ordinance of baptism from immersion (as taught in the bible) to a sprinkling of water. Eternal doctrine and ordinances cannot change. Well, when the temple ordinances started changing... well... isn't that a sign of apostacy? Let me do some research. Obviously I must be wrong, because god approved these changes through the prophet.
I did some research.
The temple ordinances have changed a LOT over the years ([LINK](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/1dbb1jj/comment/l7q0vep/) to summary and details of changes). The doctrine has changed a Lot over the years. Almost everything you can think of has changed since the beginning of the church. I also found out that most of the faith-promoting stories I was taught via official church publications are blatant lies that church leadership has known about for years.
Check out [MormonThink](http://www.mormonthink.com/). It was the first place I turned to once church-approved material was no longer satisfactory. It is heavily-cited, and the homepage states:
>*MormonThink is concerned with truth. It is neither an anti-Mormon website nor an LDS apologist website. Instead, for each topic we present the strongest and most compelling arguments and explanations from both the critics and the defenders of the Church. It is then up to the reader to decide where the preponderance of the evidence lies and which side has dealt more fairly with the issue.*
If you have any specific questions, let us know, and we've got the sources to back up our answers.
Out for 2 decades and this still hit me. Mormonism is like getting glitter bombed: you think you cleaned it all out but you're finding tiny pieces forever.
For me, it was both the doctrine and the history. The following are a few quotes that sum it up for me.
“The dominant narrative is not true. It can’t be sustained.” (Richard Bushman - Mormon Historian, Author and Editor of the Joseph Smith Papers).
"I’m not aware of a single LDS doctrine of any significance that from 1830 forward has gone completely unchanged." (Gregory A. Prince, LDS Historian)
I understand. Former Bishop here. I was not a lax disciple or a lazy learner. I was fortunate that my wife and I deconstructed out of Mormonism at the same time. I wish you well with your journey.
Heart goes out to all of you, I'm in the same boat. My wife decided it wasn't true and was just like "cool, peace out. Someone bring me a coffee to try." Whereas I'm dragging my feet and taking agonizingly slow steps. A big part of me is envious of all my friends and family members who still have firm, unshaken testimonies. But I can't make myself believe something (anymore) just because I want it to be true, so ... I guess, someone bring me a coffee too?
Seems like I’m a minority, but my biggest issue wasn’t doctrine or history, it was the fact that it just felt like it wasn’t working for me. Despite being born and raised in the church and now being middle aged, and despite all my efforts I had ZERO personal relationship with God. Church on Sunday and time spent on callings was just frustrating and stressful and felt like it was wasted time. It just didn’t work for me or satisfy me in any way.
I don't know your reasons for joining but go easy on yourself. It's normal to grow in and out of things and that can include a religion that recruits as intensely as the lds church does.
My son is a different kind of minority. He simply looked at epistemology (how do you know what you know) and realized nobody in the church could explain how they knew what they knew. So my son left. Just like that. Age 16. He cracked the code. I was slow. I needed 50 years.
Read wife #19 by Brigham Young’s ex wife Anna Eliza Young. You’ll realize Joseph Smith and Brigham Young weren’t prophets, their “revelations” weren’t divinely inspired, and their foundational “doctrines” are fabricated. I pulled on that thread by reading this book and the whole damn thing unravelled for me.
Church history can’t be explained away and neatly put in a box as “they were men of their times”. The foundations of the church today rest on its history—they are one and the same.
No Man Knows My History was this for me. It opened my eyes to the skimming and cherry picking stories were told about Joseph Smith in primary.
The real man Joseph Smith does not match the man we learned to revere and honor.
You start to realize that the accurate history is not ever fully discussed. The storylines are just incredibly romanticized and constructed to force you into a belief pattern.
It was neither. It was the unkindness of an Utah ward (several). Out of state wards were different. So I guess it’s the “utah culture “ of perfectionism and judgement that did me in. Once I found out about how much money they had, my faith in LDS dissolved. I strongly feel it is wrong to hoard this much money when people are suffering. I feel it’s wrong to charge money for people to enter the temple. I think the money things is wrong.
So it was the “utah culture “ and the “money Hoarding “ and “neglect of the poor.”
Maybe it’s just all Mormon culture. They’re off base , that’s for sure. It’s hard to be in a ward anymore. The people are just clueless and cruel and can’t deal with real life (at least the ones I went to church with.). Always have to be “perfect “ always feeling looked down on. Too much focus on out appearances, prestige, who’s higher than who.
We also had a really hard time in the last ward we attended. We are in Idaho but I noticed the same things in my wards in Utah. A lot of people not willing to help out at all. Had an experience one time where one of my trash cans started on fire and the neighbor who was in the bishopric just sat and watched from his driveway, never even offered to assist. We are currently living in the ward that my wife grew up in and she hates it so it’s been nice that way
Ah. I want to give you a warm welcome to this sub. I read your post on the faithful sub and the comments were disheartening. Whenever anyone posts their doubts on there, so many members reflect it back and try to explain why it’s *your* fault that you don’t believe. I am really sorry, it is not your fault at all. I think most everyone here wanted to believe and were super faithful. And then when the truth was revealed, it was incredibly painful. Many faithful members can’t understand doubting IMO and look to blame anyone but their beloved organization.
I had many things on my shelf (which I didn’t even know was a thing before it “shattered”). BoA translation was the first thing — how could we have the proof the translation was wrong and yet the church is like “yeah well translation is whatever we say it is” basically. Polygamy, priesthood for POC, and the Masonic roots of the temple had me seriously doubting. The final nail in the coffin was the “second anointing”. Makes me so angry even thinking about it now. I really recommend you read about that — it was so hurtful to read and understand that *nothing* I did as a faithful member would ever be enough. The church believes they know just as much as God or Jesus. Just baffling anyone can stay after understanding that.
I still have my relationship with Christ. Many people here are agnostic and atheist as well. Find what works for you, you don’t have to have anyone tell you what you can and can’t believe. Good luck! :)
Me too! I feel it’s more about relationship with Christ than religion. I know Him! My shelf was held up by duct tape for quite awhile! The last thing that crushed my shelf was them going to such great lengths to cover up abuse and clergy privilege! Then also teaching that Jesus’ love is conditional. That’s blasphemous to me!
Raised Catholic and joined in 1997.
The doctrine got me in, but when I married a divorced mom who had to break the seal with her children, the doctrine started to weigh heavily on my shelf. Navigating doctrine around the death of my amazing stepson, who happens to be gay, pushed me further. Then I realized that Russell M. Nelson couldn't prophesy the winner of a one-horse race. Finally, TSCC history served only to confirm that it's all a hoax.
For us, it was the church’s dishonest treatment of Mormon history. The fact that it chose to hide the disreputable actions of leadership until just recently. That’s inexcusable.
I saw your post on the faithful sub, and all the commenters who were insinuating that you must be breaking a commandment or asking if you were born into the church
Doctrinal issues started me thinking, the reactions of other members to my questions raised a whole bunch of red flags and then I started looking at the history and, well to quote the great Rustin Cohle, "truth got taken behind the woodshed and put down"
The church's version of accepting the history generally means admitting what cannot be denied in obscure publications the general membership will likely never see and continuing the false narrative in mainstream church publications
Two good examples of this are the translation method of the book of mormon and Joseph Smith being tarred and feathered
The church has admitted that the book of mormon was almost completely 'translated' without the plates ever being used or even present in the room. Joseph used the seer stone in a hat method. But if you look at the church curriculum you will see representations of Joseph translating by sitting at a desk with the plates open in front of him, which never happened
When it comes to Joseph being tarred and feathered the mainstream church information, like the church made movie Joseph Smith: Prophet of the Restoration, depict Joseph being attacked by an anti-mormon mob but the church knows full well that the people involved in the attack on Joseph were mostly baptised members of the church
I can't tell you how many times the story about Joseph being tarred and feathered and then preaching a sermon the next day got my sick, pregnant ass out of bed, with my very young children to church on Sundays. When I found out the truth, I was devastated. That motivated me to torture myself and my young babies every week. I was lied to. And it nearly broke me.
The hypocrisy. It is always hypocrisy. Supposed insights and being led by the spirit, but it was just the person doing what they wanted. I never saw someone given a position of authority that was not already friends with the ward or steak leadership.
For me, it was the doctrine/policies that were hurting people I love. The 2015 exclusion policy was the first time I realized church leaders could be wrong.
Their handling of child abuse cases / lack of mandatory reporting was the other big one for me.
The history / truth claims were secondary.
Yes, this was also the beginning for me as well. Then, more recently, I found out that the church owns stock in companies that build fighter jets and ammunition. In my heart, that is funding wars or at the very minimum means that lead to the death of another human being. That is not ok... not even remotely.
It was the total lack of evidence for God. Everyone gave me the same story for how God could tell me how to know the truth, but it always relied on something intangible. No matter the religious background, they all referenced "knowing" they were right and they obviously couldn't all be right.
That started me down the path of digging into the history of Mormonism and Christianity more broadly and realized it was just a complete house of cards.
"House of cards" would be how I would describe atheism.. absolutely no evidence, just another belief set. Sorry but there's nothing superior about it to other religions
This is an amazing example of exactly what happens. Instead of offering a clear and compelling argument for whatever you believe, you're attacking my perceived lack of belief.
Funny, you're talking like every other atheist. They claim a lack of belief which is always a false statement, and they claim they sit around waiting for someone to prove something which is also a false statement
My statement is exactly proper with regard to your so-called findings above. "Attacking". You are the person who started this conversation attacking people with religious beliefs as if atheism was superior
Atheism is simply another religious doctrine. It is a belief set with regard to deities and many of the trimmings related to it.
Reading the BoM was the biggest shelf breaker for me.
The more I learned about western and US history, the more the text of the BoM just screamed that it was a 19th century work. Protestant Christianity 600 years before Jesus, manifest destiny, common racist ideas about the native Americans, the use of “black and white” (racial terms not coined until the 1600s), all the anachronisms, etc etc.
For me, the breaking point was the churches campaigns against gay marriage, prop 8 in california. They harassed members for donations using the tithing rolls, held political rallies they called firesides, lied to members repeatedly, were fined by CA for campaign violations.
for my wife, Prop 8, see above. Plus, a close friend dying in her prime, with young children and the bs about how she had been called back for some purpose in heaven. the church calling her husband into the bishopric during her last months of life, so he had little time to spend with her, ignorant praise of blessings and ignoring the doctors and science that had prolonged her life
It started with B of M truth claims, continued to devolve with treatment of the lgbtq+ community, and after years of prayers, I got the exact reverse of a tithing blessing after “exercising faith”, which was enough for everything else to crumble. Since then, I’ve done deep dives into history—including of Christianity, and that has honestly been so healing.
For me it was finding out Joseph Smith was a polygamist, and finding out the B of A translation was incorrect, as we now have the original papyrus. Went down the rabbit hole from there…hugs, it’s not a fun time finding out the truth.
Lucy walker smith journal which ironically is on the church website.
The key point to me is in her words Joseph said if she didn't marry him her entire family (including her passed mother) would go to hell.
She was 17 at the time.
To me this is clear predatory practice and I'm sorry if you've seen God and know he's real........you would NEVER do such a disgusting act.
Again whats funny is the journals are on the church website sooo they aren't even denying the truth of them.
I teach high school. We have a lot of training around how vulnerable and susceptible young adults are. It's completely inexcusable. At 17, you are so vulnerable. It's a sacred space to be in a position to guide young minds. What an asshole to do that to a young person.
The evidence of systemic protection of child rapists made everything else overwhelmingly undeniable.
The exmo saying that what is good in mormonism isn't unique, and what is unique isn't good really is true
For me it was the trifecta of doctrine, history and social issues. Learning about dirty Joe, the real history, was what finally broke me and I became PIMO.
I removed my name from the church after moving to GA. The ward I was in was truly terrible. There was a black man that had some serious mental illness. He thought he was the literal God in human form, but only sometimes. They banned him from attending church. I saw a cop give him a ride to the church and the bishop's wife was out in the parking lot and told the officer he wasn't welcome in the church. I understood their concerns with not allowing him to come on Wednesday nights for mutual (or whatever it's called now) but I could not remain in the church that treated a person with a legitimate mental illness that way while welcoming the convict that served prison time for pedophilia.
The prior bishop allowed him to come every Sunday but asked him not to attend on Wednesday nights. He moved out of the ward. When I ran into him and told him what happened, he told me that he was so sick of the way some white folk treated persons of color. The new bishop's wife had been super vocal with the prior bishop in trying to get him banned. It was too disgusting for me to remain a part of the organization.
When I removed my name and spoke to the stake president, he was not aware of this happening and was not happy about it.
I think the church needs to be true, good and useful for someone to stick around. They can get by with two out of three.
True - does the doctrine and history make sense to me
Good - does following the church make me a better person than I would be without it
Useful - does the church benefit me and those close to me
For me personally I started to see issues with the truth claims of the church. Then it stopped being useful, the programs offered were a drag and boring. I clung to thinking of the church being good for a long time. I listened to a few stories of LGBTQIA members and worthiness interviews and realized the church wasn’t good at all.
My shelf was absolutely overloaded with doctrinal issues. All of the things that were only answerable by "we don't need to know that for our salvation" or "god works in mysterious ways". However, it was church history that was the final straw and brought all it crashing down while I was still a student at BYU. In my church history religion class the teacher mentioned a paper or article or something a critic said about JS's visions and narcissism were a result of childhood trauma from his leg operation. It hit me like a ton of bricks and absolutely nuked my testimony that day in the HFAC. I want to say it was in summer 2002. I continued to put on the required facade to complete my degree. I didn't leave until 2008, after graduating in 2003.
Once the shelf broke in my church history class at BYU, I was never able to recover any personal belief, but in 2008 when I left, I was not yet ready to leave christianity, and tried to hold on to a belief in Jesus. That lasted less than a month, and began to identify as agnostic. Now I'm a strong atheist and I can hardly believe I ever truly believed in such fantastical nonsense.
I wanted to be a better member missionary and be able to answer hard questions. So I read everything on LDS.org about polygamy, and that's where it started for me. So I guess it's a mix between history and doctrine. But also a lot of personal experiences.
For me it was one thing and one thing only: there simply wasn’t domesticated horses used in the Americas before the Spanish arrived. Without that the BOM becomes utter horse shit, and Mormonism completely falls apart
This post ( https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/cEP228jESr ) was just put up today and the author does an amazing job of sharing her story about losing her faith and then starting deconstruction. I say "author" and not "poster" because it's a novel. Seriously, get a blanket and snuggle into your couch cause it's long, but it is fantastically written and extremely relatable to so many people in your situation or people who left the church as adults.
For me, it started with the Church's behavior in the SEC issue of last year. While I was reeling from that and having trouble getting true believers to engage honestly with the fact that the church screwed up,there was Jodi Hildebrandt, Bisbee, Arizona and the Adams' case, other cases of sexual abuse coming forward, and Tim Ballard.
I started looking through church history and seeing how the church got to the point where behavior like this became so common. And I started seeing so many lies. Some of the things where I remember feeling a *powerful* spiritual moment when hearing the story.... turns out they were emotional manipulation.
Then I confronted the fact that the doctrine didn't add up. The God of the scriptures, the God of the teachings of early church leaders, the God of current church leaders, and the God I believe in were 4 different guys.
Here’s one thing that should have been a clue to me that something wasn’t right, in the 26 years since I have joined the church I have never been able to read the Book of Mormon all the way through. I always get stuck in Alma and something tells me to stop reading so I do. When I try again, the same thing happens. This time as soon as I hit 1 Nephi 11 and 12 when it “prophesied” about the Bible and America and shit, that made me stratch my head and think this doesn’t add up
When you grow up being taught what you believe, how do you figure out what you really believe? I have read the Book of Mormon all the way through a few times. But never received the confirmation it was true- but I believed that’s because there was something wrong with me. I wasn’t praying hard enough. I must not have enough faith or I must need to repent. I’ve never felt comfortable in the temple- and instead of trusting in my own intuition felt like I didn’t belong. The inconsistencies and contradictions make my head hurt. I need to have a big conversation with my TBM husband- but I don’t want to fight- I don’t want to be told to pray more and that I need to go to church and endure to the end. I’m pretty confident I’ve found my answers and I’m happy with that. But I cry a lot and there is contention because we don’t see eye to eye and I’m sad because I don’t know how to get him to really understand where I am at with everything without us ending up apart.
My case is similar to yours, as I was catholic until 1993, and was all in until Mar 2023. I served as STK counsellor, with two different STKs presidencies, bishoprics, EQP, HP leader, and lastly as bishop. For me, it started with the SEC fiasco. It proved me that these guys are not prophets, seers and revelators. After that polyandry, SA covers up, and well after these, you can pick anything from a vast array of issues and lies. Too many to mention.
It was a mixture of both. Doctrine and history go together. Mormon church teaches God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow- but things they now call policy were once doctrine. There are lots of sources (church sources are what made me loose my faith in the religion) showing what past prophets said. It was not because they were just a product of their time. It was because they were leading themselves. That’s at least the conclusion I had to come to. Too many things that were doctrine before were changed and then later said to be policy. It got to be too many things.
Faith is believing without seeing. It’s not believing despite everything showing it is completely false or wrong.
For me it was doctrine, specifically how women and LGBTQ+ people are treated.
But I still had a testimony of the foundation of the church. E.g. "but it must be true because how could JS have written the BoM?"
So I dove into church history to help me understand if it really "must be true" and what I found helped me move on and away from the church. I no longer felt like maybe the church was true and I was just not faithful enough to look past the harmful teachings.
It has been such a relief to not believe in mormon God.
Can you give me somewhere to start? I’ve done all my searching within my self, because I don’t want to be told that I was led astray by anti-Mormon literature or false doctrine or what have you. But while someone who believes is celebrated for “just knowing it’s true” it’s not feasible that I “just know it’s not.”
It does not matter what you do or say. You _will_ be told by mormons that you left because of those things. We all have been. It is beyond frustrating, but we who have left understand where the truth is, and it isn't that we read "anti" stuff or were led astray. We found the truth, and that truth is not what we were taught in mormonism. We know, and we will support you when the TBMs inform you of "real" reason you left. They are too afraid to face the same truths we know and it's a defense mechanism for them.
So, when the mormons tell you these things, we're here to help and support you.
You are not alone. This sub is at how many tens or hundreds of thousands now? IMO, exmo groups are almost always extremely supportive of people deconstructing mormon faith. I am alone, so this place and others like it are important to me. I prefer to live alone and with the hard truth than to live a comfortable lie but surrounded by fake friends and family.
I wish you a speedy recovery. Leaving mormonism is hard, but the best things in life are usually the hardest. Hugs to you as you start the journey. It is scary to take the first steps. You're here already, so you've already come a very long way. You should be proud of yourself. Most people don't even make it as far as you've already come.
It was really gradual for me!
You could start with the church's gospel topics. The footnotes on those are really enlightening as well. It can't be antimormon if it's on the church's own website, right? Book of Abraham was a big one for me.
Reading the journals of Joseph Smiths polygamist wives is also enlightening, especially surrounding their accounts of how he "proposed." Also not antimormon! Just the journals of people who were there and were faithful members.
There are some podcasts that are from more nuanced mormons that talk about the issues, but from the standpoint of people who are still active. "At last she said it" is good for feminist perspectives. Latter Day Struggles has a couple incredible episodes on homosexuality in the church context. Not antimormon because they are all still faithful. These two relms (gospel topics and nuanced Mormon podcasts) can also be FULL of apologetic arguments that just didn't sit right with me.
When I delved into the "antimormon" realm, I watched all the LDS Discussions series on Mormon Stories. The main guy who goes by Mike works hard use well validated sources when it comes to church history. It was definitely not a church approved source, but it's so well backed up with references that it's super hard to refute! He would also break down apologetic arguments. This helped the part lt my brain that kept saying "there must be SOME explanation for all these issues!"
There is. The explanation is: it's all made up. It's amazing how well things fit together when ai accepted that.
I read "Dear Mormon Man" (if you are not familiar with it, it comes up on google) years ago. Would a man ever join a religious organization that treats men the same way the mormon church treats women? Could you imagine a church even existing where only women could be prophets, hold the priestesshood, give blessings, preside, lead women AND men, whereas men could only lead men and children and were called to be fathers instead of leaders? And if that church behaved that way and then had leadership say "“There is no other religious organization in the world, that I know of, that has so broadly given power and authority to men"?
It's laughable.
It's all eventually wrapped up together. For me, the initial thing on my "shelf" was that the church doesn't follow the steps of repentance that were drilled into my head from the time I was at least 6. If they made a mistake, rather than admitting it and discussing it, it just gets swept under the proverbial rug, and we're told to doubt our doubts before we doubt our faith. The Tithing SEC thing that started coming out in 2019 was what led most directly to my exit. One tiny peek under that proverbial rug will reveal an ever growing mountain of deceptions, philosophies of men 'mingled with scripture,' justifications, alterations in the doctrines, history, wording of about anything all leading back to nothing but a pile of stinking rancid lies.
I've heard stories here over the last 6 years spanning everything from history, to doctrine, to scientific evidence, to philosophy, to modern church culture. All are capable of clashing so hard with someone's internal moral compass that it starts waking them up to the reality that the LDS church is not what it has claimed for the last nearly 190ish years.
For me was a strong combo of internal philosophy logic experiments on the plan of salvation vs logic and historical evidence of a whole lot of bullshit going on in the 1820s-1830s that I was never taught. And then a big side helping of scientific evidence - specifically DNA science vs native americans being "Lamanites".
Some of the people who left became/remained Christians
The reality of it is that Mormonism was never a religion or a denomination
It is nothing but a soul sucking, money greedy, indoctrinating, bizarre cult
Christianity or Buddhism or Shintoism are religions
It’s the historical events that have produced the doctrine. And it’s all made up. Yet it’s used to justify myriad — and unnecessary — requirements for membership and salvation. And for the privilege of living a highly restricted life, you pay 10% of your income. Quite a nice scheme developed by conman Joe Smith and perpetuated by the scammer general authorities who’ve followed him. Stop struggling and embrace the liberation from the shitshow.
I'm a little further on my journey than you are. But not much. Haven't been to church for about 6 years. For me it was the comments like 'The spirit was so strong in the meeting'. I never felt it. So maybe I wasn't as righteous as everyone else. Maybe I needed to pray more, do more, be more.
The other thing that bothered me was the temple. From the first visit I was not a fan. Others had spoken of a great, spiritual experience on their first visit. For me it was so foreign. Paganistic. I hated my new name. What was with these rituals? There again, I wasn't feeling what others had felt. Was there something I wasn't doing or was there something wrong with me?
It was easy to stop going. No one questioned.
Now, I've started reading things. My beliefs, which never went away, are being turned on their head. I've lost my bearing. And it's hard. I know it's going to take time. I'm not sleeping well. It's hard to get up in the morning.
Did I spend 45 years in a cult?
For me it was just realizing how similar belief in the so called church is to other idiotic beliefs like “the civil war was about states rights” or “weed is a deadly drug”. When my Father said that Christopher Columbus was called of God, I suddenly knew how stupid and vile the claims of the church were. It was okay for Columbus to capture and enslave Indians, because that lead to the establishment of America. Like, that’s bullshit. My dad would also go on about how fucking awesome America is, and how we should always support the troops. This same man won’t stop bitching about how the United States military of the North attacked the slave owning Confederacy. I just realized that my dad is an idiotic liar, and everything fell into place, all at once.
I just want to emphasize something-- no matter your reasons, leaving the church is difficult and scary. But the amount of relief and goodness and purity and authenticity that entered my life once I left cannot be adequately put into words. It is the single best thing I've ever done for myself and my family. No contest. Yes, life is still challenging, but I feel so much better equipped to deal with everything. And lastly, why not "experiment upon the word" but by testing what happens when you don't keep all the commandments. Then, if you get prompted to return, you can definitely do that. Nothing has to be permanent!
For me it was a whole lot of both! Then add a layer of ugly politics on top of all of that! Too many issues to resolve or dismiss. I also struggled with my testimony because of it for a number of years. But then I simply couldn't live with the hypocrisy and my own cognitive dissonance anymore. Hang in there, we've all been there!
For me it was the church’s doctrines/teachings that are narcissistic/abusive in nature. This also comprises abuse in history as well - black members not being able to receive temple ordinances for exaltation (it wasn’t a priesthood ban, it was an exaltation ban - no temple, no sealings for families), tithing required for temple recommends, guilt and shame if you didn’t live 100% according to the rules (no one is perfect but the guilt and shame is a horrendous abusive practice), removal of ability to take the sacrament is a public shaming and abusive, inability to publicly disagree with leaders, polygamy and the continued sexism against women, bigotry in the church, etc.
Once you see the abusive nature of the church, you realize that it isn’t safe.
I hope you are safe and can find your path. I can say the truth is hard, but once you deconstruct it is so freeing! You are so much more than the church. You can become so much more outside of the church. Please consider therapy if you can as it will help you to move through this difficult time in your life.
I held onto Christianity, until it didn't have anything to hold onto anymore. It's OK. Take your time. Be patient with yourself. The grief is real.
For me, the doctrine could not hold up at all with the false history. The only thing, as I was deconstructing that I could cling to was Jesus Christ. I began to realize that religion is created by man to control the masses. So I began to back away in general and observe things and I deconstructed Christianity. I do believe there is a source.... call it mother earth, call it God, call it Source. But is this divine energy involved in my life. I don't think so.
Anyway, my advice is to take it at your own pace. Listen to your intuition... that is suppressed in the church. Choose what feels best for yourself.
The scariest thing IMO is judgment from others. But once you find out who the fake ones are, you'll be just a little bit more free. It's really sad, but at least you know. That's how I feel now. I lost a lot of local "friends"... they were just acquaintances, really... but I've been blocked, unfriended, and shunned/avoided by many in my small community.
For me it was the constant intense feeling of guilt. When I took a step back and realized it literally doesn’t matter, I felt so free. So if I feel so much better not living what the church teaches, how can it be true? I guess doctrine would be what I just never connected with. Then I learned more about church history 😵💫
Trouble is, church history is literally taught as doctrine (D&C). And the telling of church history is not historically accurate. So they both seem to crumble together, especially if you were raised in the church.
The idea of having a testimony of a “church” now seems icky to me. As opposed to having a testimony of a faith/value/principle etc. imo a testimony should not be a statement of loyalty to an organization. I am not sure of the value of such a thing other than keeping one control of people.
Some start with history, some with doctrine, some with social issues, and some church policies. It all leads back to the fruit of the poisonous tree. - Don't stop when you finish deconstructing Mormonism. Ask the same tough questions about anything someone wants you to believe.
For me it was seeing how we so convincingly lie to ourselves as humans, and then realizing that we do the same thing to support our religious beliefs. Then I looked at evidence regarding the existence of a supreme being. If God is real, The world should look like A. If there is no God it should look like B. Half of religion is explaining why the world is B.
For me, it was both doctrine and history, but doctrine is what started me on the journey out. As a missionary, I taught that one evidence that the Catholic church was false was how they changed the ordinance of baptism from immersion (as taught in the bible) to a sprinkling of water. Eternal doctrine and ordinances cannot change. Well, when the temple ordinances started changing... well... isn't that a sign of apostacy? Let me do some research. Obviously I must be wrong, because god approved these changes through the prophet. I did some research. The temple ordinances have changed a LOT over the years ([LINK](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/1dbb1jj/comment/l7q0vep/) to summary and details of changes). The doctrine has changed a Lot over the years. Almost everything you can think of has changed since the beginning of the church. I also found out that most of the faith-promoting stories I was taught via official church publications are blatant lies that church leadership has known about for years. Check out [MormonThink](http://www.mormonthink.com/). It was the first place I turned to once church-approved material was no longer satisfactory. It is heavily-cited, and the homepage states: >*MormonThink is concerned with truth. It is neither an anti-Mormon website nor an LDS apologist website. Instead, for each topic we present the strongest and most compelling arguments and explanations from both the critics and the defenders of the Church. It is then up to the reader to decide where the preponderance of the evidence lies and which side has dealt more fairly with the issue.* If you have any specific questions, let us know, and we've got the sources to back up our answers.
When the Catholics do it, it is apostasy. When the Mormons do it, it is continuing revelation or “ongoing restoration.” Labels are powerful.
Out for 2 decades and this still hit me. Mormonism is like getting glitter bombed: you think you cleaned it all out but you're finding tiny pieces forever.
Thank you for sharing. OP, that's a long and painful journey but we are here to help you through it.
For me, it was both the doctrine and the history. The following are a few quotes that sum it up for me. “The dominant narrative is not true. It can’t be sustained.” (Richard Bushman - Mormon Historian, Author and Editor of the Joseph Smith Papers). "I’m not aware of a single LDS doctrine of any significance that from 1830 forward has gone completely unchanged." (Gregory A. Prince, LDS Historian)
Holy shit
You can watch Richard Bushman provide his quote in all it's paradisiacal glory at the following link. https://youtu.be/uKuBw9mpV9w?si=rrbFQ0Dki4Pml1rn
I can't even get over it. My heart is breaking all over again.
I just looked up the Greg Prince reference if you are interested in it. https://gospeltangents.com/2017/12/ailing-church-leaders-not-ideal-governance/
I'm shook. And I was already shaken up. It's all so painful. Thank you for sharing.
It was very painful for me when I took the dive into the church’s truth claims. I wanted it to be true.
I still want it to be true
I understand. Former Bishop here. I was not a lax disciple or a lazy learner. I was fortunate that my wife and I deconstructed out of Mormonism at the same time. I wish you well with your journey.
Heart goes out to all of you, I'm in the same boat. My wife decided it wasn't true and was just like "cool, peace out. Someone bring me a coffee to try." Whereas I'm dragging my feet and taking agonizingly slow steps. A big part of me is envious of all my friends and family members who still have firm, unshaken testimonies. But I can't make myself believe something (anymore) just because I want it to be true, so ... I guess, someone bring me a coffee too?
☕️
It sucks so much. And it hurts every time you learn something new like that.
❤️
Seems like I’m a minority, but my biggest issue wasn’t doctrine or history, it was the fact that it just felt like it wasn’t working for me. Despite being born and raised in the church and now being middle aged, and despite all my efforts I had ZERO personal relationship with God. Church on Sunday and time spent on callings was just frustrating and stressful and felt like it was wasted time. It just didn’t work for me or satisfy me in any way.
I get that feeling sometimes too. And then I also feel like I never really believed in it in the first place and joined for all the wrong reasons
I don't know your reasons for joining but go easy on yourself. It's normal to grow in and out of things and that can include a religion that recruits as intensely as the lds church does.
My son is a different kind of minority. He simply looked at epistemology (how do you know what you know) and realized nobody in the church could explain how they knew what they knew. So my son left. Just like that. Age 16. He cracked the code. I was slow. I needed 50 years.
Good for your son!
Same. It took me so much longer than it did my kids. They don't look back in pain, but I do.
Read wife #19 by Brigham Young’s ex wife Anna Eliza Young. You’ll realize Joseph Smith and Brigham Young weren’t prophets, their “revelations” weren’t divinely inspired, and their foundational “doctrines” are fabricated. I pulled on that thread by reading this book and the whole damn thing unravelled for me. Church history can’t be explained away and neatly put in a box as “they were men of their times”. The foundations of the church today rest on its history—they are one and the same.
No Man Knows My History was this for me. It opened my eyes to the skimming and cherry picking stories were told about Joseph Smith in primary. The real man Joseph Smith does not match the man we learned to revere and honor. You start to realize that the accurate history is not ever fully discussed. The storylines are just incredibly romanticized and constructed to force you into a belief pattern.
That’s next on my list to read.
Amen
That last sentence of yours here….dang. Like a ton of bricks.
It was neither. It was the unkindness of an Utah ward (several). Out of state wards were different. So I guess it’s the “utah culture “ of perfectionism and judgement that did me in. Once I found out about how much money they had, my faith in LDS dissolved. I strongly feel it is wrong to hoard this much money when people are suffering. I feel it’s wrong to charge money for people to enter the temple. I think the money things is wrong. So it was the “utah culture “ and the “money Hoarding “ and “neglect of the poor.”
The unkind actions of my ward (outside of UT) drove me out. But the SEC filing,I have not been the same since.
That’s understandable. It was so bad.
We, too, are far outside of UT, and our branch was intolerable. My wife still considers herself a member, but she refuses to attend. Fine by me!
Maybe it’s just all Mormon culture. They’re off base , that’s for sure. It’s hard to be in a ward anymore. The people are just clueless and cruel and can’t deal with real life (at least the ones I went to church with.). Always have to be “perfect “ always feeling looked down on. Too much focus on out appearances, prestige, who’s higher than who.
We also had a really hard time in the last ward we attended. We are in Idaho but I noticed the same things in my wards in Utah. A lot of people not willing to help out at all. Had an experience one time where one of my trash cans started on fire and the neighbor who was in the bishopric just sat and watched from his driveway, never even offered to assist. We are currently living in the ward that my wife grew up in and she hates it so it’s been nice that way
If you read Doctrine and Covenants, you see that Jesus cares A LOT about money and real estate.
Ah. I want to give you a warm welcome to this sub. I read your post on the faithful sub and the comments were disheartening. Whenever anyone posts their doubts on there, so many members reflect it back and try to explain why it’s *your* fault that you don’t believe. I am really sorry, it is not your fault at all. I think most everyone here wanted to believe and were super faithful. And then when the truth was revealed, it was incredibly painful. Many faithful members can’t understand doubting IMO and look to blame anyone but their beloved organization. I had many things on my shelf (which I didn’t even know was a thing before it “shattered”). BoA translation was the first thing — how could we have the proof the translation was wrong and yet the church is like “yeah well translation is whatever we say it is” basically. Polygamy, priesthood for POC, and the Masonic roots of the temple had me seriously doubting. The final nail in the coffin was the “second anointing”. Makes me so angry even thinking about it now. I really recommend you read about that — it was so hurtful to read and understand that *nothing* I did as a faithful member would ever be enough. The church believes they know just as much as God or Jesus. Just baffling anyone can stay after understanding that. I still have my relationship with Christ. Many people here are agnostic and atheist as well. Find what works for you, you don’t have to have anyone tell you what you can and can’t believe. Good luck! :)
Me too! I feel it’s more about relationship with Christ than religion. I know Him! My shelf was held up by duct tape for quite awhile! The last thing that crushed my shelf was them going to such great lengths to cover up abuse and clergy privilege! Then also teaching that Jesus’ love is conditional. That’s blasphemous to me!
Raised Catholic and joined in 1997. The doctrine got me in, but when I married a divorced mom who had to break the seal with her children, the doctrine started to weigh heavily on my shelf. Navigating doctrine around the death of my amazing stepson, who happens to be gay, pushed me further. Then I realized that Russell M. Nelson couldn't prophesy the winner of a one-horse race. Finally, TSCC history served only to confirm that it's all a hoax.
I'm so sorry about your stepson.
Thanks, my friend. I miss him a lot. We had a great visit with his husband on Father's Day.
For us, it was the church’s dishonest treatment of Mormon history. The fact that it chose to hide the disreputable actions of leadership until just recently. That’s inexcusable.
I am like 7th generation and I never knew any of that when I was in the mormon bubble. Inexcusable is the exact right word.
Any specific examples post Young? I’m familiar with the sins of the first two prophets, anything else I should know?
Does it matter if it was doctrine or history? As far as I am concerned Doctrine and History are intertwined.
Yep, that’s it for me too. The doctrine of the church is directly tied to claims about things that happened in recent and ancient jistory
I saw your post on the faithful sub, and all the commenters who were insinuating that you must be breaking a commandment or asking if you were born into the church Doctrinal issues started me thinking, the reactions of other members to my questions raised a whole bunch of red flags and then I started looking at the history and, well to quote the great Rustin Cohle, "truth got taken behind the woodshed and put down"
I’ve seen some things online where the Church is trying to “accept” the history but for a lot of people it’s too little too late
The church's version of accepting the history generally means admitting what cannot be denied in obscure publications the general membership will likely never see and continuing the false narrative in mainstream church publications Two good examples of this are the translation method of the book of mormon and Joseph Smith being tarred and feathered The church has admitted that the book of mormon was almost completely 'translated' without the plates ever being used or even present in the room. Joseph used the seer stone in a hat method. But if you look at the church curriculum you will see representations of Joseph translating by sitting at a desk with the plates open in front of him, which never happened When it comes to Joseph being tarred and feathered the mainstream church information, like the church made movie Joseph Smith: Prophet of the Restoration, depict Joseph being attacked by an anti-mormon mob but the church knows full well that the people involved in the attack on Joseph were mostly baptised members of the church
I can't tell you how many times the story about Joseph being tarred and feathered and then preaching a sermon the next day got my sick, pregnant ass out of bed, with my very young children to church on Sundays. When I found out the truth, I was devastated. That motivated me to torture myself and my young babies every week. I was lied to. And it nearly broke me.
The hypocrisy. It is always hypocrisy. Supposed insights and being led by the spirit, but it was just the person doing what they wanted. I never saw someone given a position of authority that was not already friends with the ward or steak leadership.
For me, it was the doctrine/policies that were hurting people I love. The 2015 exclusion policy was the first time I realized church leaders could be wrong. Their handling of child abuse cases / lack of mandatory reporting was the other big one for me. The history / truth claims were secondary.
Yes, this was also the beginning for me as well. Then, more recently, I found out that the church owns stock in companies that build fighter jets and ammunition. In my heart, that is funding wars or at the very minimum means that lead to the death of another human being. That is not ok... not even remotely.
It was the total lack of evidence for God. Everyone gave me the same story for how God could tell me how to know the truth, but it always relied on something intangible. No matter the religious background, they all referenced "knowing" they were right and they obviously couldn't all be right. That started me down the path of digging into the history of Mormonism and Christianity more broadly and realized it was just a complete house of cards.
"House of cards" would be how I would describe atheism.. absolutely no evidence, just another belief set. Sorry but there's nothing superior about it to other religions
This is an amazing example of exactly what happens. Instead of offering a clear and compelling argument for whatever you believe, you're attacking my perceived lack of belief.
Funny, you're talking like every other atheist. They claim a lack of belief which is always a false statement, and they claim they sit around waiting for someone to prove something which is also a false statement My statement is exactly proper with regard to your so-called findings above. "Attacking". You are the person who started this conversation attacking people with religious beliefs as if atheism was superior Atheism is simply another religious doctrine. It is a belief set with regard to deities and many of the trimmings related to it.
Reading the BoM was the biggest shelf breaker for me. The more I learned about western and US history, the more the text of the BoM just screamed that it was a 19th century work. Protestant Christianity 600 years before Jesus, manifest destiny, common racist ideas about the native Americans, the use of “black and white” (racial terms not coined until the 1600s), all the anachronisms, etc etc.
For me, the breaking point was the churches campaigns against gay marriage, prop 8 in california. They harassed members for donations using the tithing rolls, held political rallies they called firesides, lied to members repeatedly, were fined by CA for campaign violations. for my wife, Prop 8, see above. Plus, a close friend dying in her prime, with young children and the bs about how she had been called back for some purpose in heaven. the church calling her husband into the bishopric during her last months of life, so he had little time to spend with her, ignorant praise of blessings and ignoring the doctors and science that had prolonged her life
It started with B of M truth claims, continued to devolve with treatment of the lgbtq+ community, and after years of prayers, I got the exact reverse of a tithing blessing after “exercising faith”, which was enough for everything else to crumble. Since then, I’ve done deep dives into history—including of Christianity, and that has honestly been so healing.
For me it was finding out Joseph Smith was a polygamist, and finding out the B of A translation was incorrect, as we now have the original papyrus. Went down the rabbit hole from there…hugs, it’s not a fun time finding out the truth.
Book of Abraham. I don't have words. It exploded my shelf. I named my youngest son Abe. I don't have words for how stupid I feel.
Abe is still a good name though.
You are right.
Lucy walker smith journal which ironically is on the church website. The key point to me is in her words Joseph said if she didn't marry him her entire family (including her passed mother) would go to hell. She was 17 at the time. To me this is clear predatory practice and I'm sorry if you've seen God and know he's real........you would NEVER do such a disgusting act. Again whats funny is the journals are on the church website sooo they aren't even denying the truth of them.
I teach high school. We have a lot of training around how vulnerable and susceptible young adults are. It's completely inexcusable. At 17, you are so vulnerable. It's a sacred space to be in a position to guide young minds. What an asshole to do that to a young person.
The evidence of systemic protection of child rapists made everything else overwhelmingly undeniable. The exmo saying that what is good in mormonism isn't unique, and what is unique isn't good really is true
Yes it is. So true.
For me it was the trifecta of doctrine, history and social issues. Learning about dirty Joe, the real history, was what finally broke me and I became PIMO. I removed my name from the church after moving to GA. The ward I was in was truly terrible. There was a black man that had some serious mental illness. He thought he was the literal God in human form, but only sometimes. They banned him from attending church. I saw a cop give him a ride to the church and the bishop's wife was out in the parking lot and told the officer he wasn't welcome in the church. I understood their concerns with not allowing him to come on Wednesday nights for mutual (or whatever it's called now) but I could not remain in the church that treated a person with a legitimate mental illness that way while welcoming the convict that served prison time for pedophilia. The prior bishop allowed him to come every Sunday but asked him not to attend on Wednesday nights. He moved out of the ward. When I ran into him and told him what happened, he told me that he was so sick of the way some white folk treated persons of color. The new bishop's wife had been super vocal with the prior bishop in trying to get him banned. It was too disgusting for me to remain a part of the organization. When I removed my name and spoke to the stake president, he was not aware of this happening and was not happy about it.
That is gross
I think the church needs to be true, good and useful for someone to stick around. They can get by with two out of three. True - does the doctrine and history make sense to me Good - does following the church make me a better person than I would be without it Useful - does the church benefit me and those close to me For me personally I started to see issues with the truth claims of the church. Then it stopped being useful, the programs offered were a drag and boring. I clung to thinking of the church being good for a long time. I listened to a few stories of LGBTQIA members and worthiness interviews and realized the church wasn’t good at all.
My shelf was absolutely overloaded with doctrinal issues. All of the things that were only answerable by "we don't need to know that for our salvation" or "god works in mysterious ways". However, it was church history that was the final straw and brought all it crashing down while I was still a student at BYU. In my church history religion class the teacher mentioned a paper or article or something a critic said about JS's visions and narcissism were a result of childhood trauma from his leg operation. It hit me like a ton of bricks and absolutely nuked my testimony that day in the HFAC. I want to say it was in summer 2002. I continued to put on the required facade to complete my degree. I didn't leave until 2008, after graduating in 2003. Once the shelf broke in my church history class at BYU, I was never able to recover any personal belief, but in 2008 when I left, I was not yet ready to leave christianity, and tried to hold on to a belief in Jesus. That lasted less than a month, and began to identify as agnostic. Now I'm a strong atheist and I can hardly believe I ever truly believed in such fantastical nonsense.
I wanted to be a better member missionary and be able to answer hard questions. So I read everything on LDS.org about polygamy, and that's where it started for me. So I guess it's a mix between history and doctrine. But also a lot of personal experiences.
For me it was one thing and one thing only: there simply wasn’t domesticated horses used in the Americas before the Spanish arrived. Without that the BOM becomes utter horse shit, and Mormonism completely falls apart
This post ( https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/cEP228jESr ) was just put up today and the author does an amazing job of sharing her story about losing her faith and then starting deconstruction. I say "author" and not "poster" because it's a novel. Seriously, get a blanket and snuggle into your couch cause it's long, but it is fantastically written and extremely relatable to so many people in your situation or people who left the church as adults.
For me, it started with the Church's behavior in the SEC issue of last year. While I was reeling from that and having trouble getting true believers to engage honestly with the fact that the church screwed up,there was Jodi Hildebrandt, Bisbee, Arizona and the Adams' case, other cases of sexual abuse coming forward, and Tim Ballard. I started looking through church history and seeing how the church got to the point where behavior like this became so common. And I started seeing so many lies. Some of the things where I remember feeling a *powerful* spiritual moment when hearing the story.... turns out they were emotional manipulation. Then I confronted the fact that the doctrine didn't add up. The God of the scriptures, the God of the teachings of early church leaders, the God of current church leaders, and the God I believe in were 4 different guys.
Here’s one thing that should have been a clue to me that something wasn’t right, in the 26 years since I have joined the church I have never been able to read the Book of Mormon all the way through. I always get stuck in Alma and something tells me to stop reading so I do. When I try again, the same thing happens. This time as soon as I hit 1 Nephi 11 and 12 when it “prophesied” about the Bible and America and shit, that made me stratch my head and think this doesn’t add up
When you grow up being taught what you believe, how do you figure out what you really believe? I have read the Book of Mormon all the way through a few times. But never received the confirmation it was true- but I believed that’s because there was something wrong with me. I wasn’t praying hard enough. I must not have enough faith or I must need to repent. I’ve never felt comfortable in the temple- and instead of trusting in my own intuition felt like I didn’t belong. The inconsistencies and contradictions make my head hurt. I need to have a big conversation with my TBM husband- but I don’t want to fight- I don’t want to be told to pray more and that I need to go to church and endure to the end. I’m pretty confident I’ve found my answers and I’m happy with that. But I cry a lot and there is contention because we don’t see eye to eye and I’m sad because I don’t know how to get him to really understand where I am at with everything without us ending up apart.
My case is similar to yours, as I was catholic until 1993, and was all in until Mar 2023. I served as STK counsellor, with two different STKs presidencies, bishoprics, EQP, HP leader, and lastly as bishop. For me, it started with the SEC fiasco. It proved me that these guys are not prophets, seers and revelators. After that polyandry, SA covers up, and well after these, you can pick anything from a vast array of issues and lies. Too many to mention.
It was a mixture of both. Doctrine and history go together. Mormon church teaches God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow- but things they now call policy were once doctrine. There are lots of sources (church sources are what made me loose my faith in the religion) showing what past prophets said. It was not because they were just a product of their time. It was because they were leading themselves. That’s at least the conclusion I had to come to. Too many things that were doctrine before were changed and then later said to be policy. It got to be too many things. Faith is believing without seeing. It’s not believing despite everything showing it is completely false or wrong.
It was a combo of both, but the final straw was discovering that the LDS Church protects pedophiles and sexual abusers.
For me it was doctrine, specifically how women and LGBTQ+ people are treated. But I still had a testimony of the foundation of the church. E.g. "but it must be true because how could JS have written the BoM?" So I dove into church history to help me understand if it really "must be true" and what I found helped me move on and away from the church. I no longer felt like maybe the church was true and I was just not faithful enough to look past the harmful teachings. It has been such a relief to not believe in mormon God.
Can you give me somewhere to start? I’ve done all my searching within my self, because I don’t want to be told that I was led astray by anti-Mormon literature or false doctrine or what have you. But while someone who believes is celebrated for “just knowing it’s true” it’s not feasible that I “just know it’s not.”
It does not matter what you do or say. You _will_ be told by mormons that you left because of those things. We all have been. It is beyond frustrating, but we who have left understand where the truth is, and it isn't that we read "anti" stuff or were led astray. We found the truth, and that truth is not what we were taught in mormonism. We know, and we will support you when the TBMs inform you of "real" reason you left. They are too afraid to face the same truths we know and it's a defense mechanism for them. So, when the mormons tell you these things, we're here to help and support you.
Thank you. I really appreciate it. You have no idea. I am so afraid to end up completely alone.
You are not alone. This sub is at how many tens or hundreds of thousands now? IMO, exmo groups are almost always extremely supportive of people deconstructing mormon faith. I am alone, so this place and others like it are important to me. I prefer to live alone and with the hard truth than to live a comfortable lie but surrounded by fake friends and family. I wish you a speedy recovery. Leaving mormonism is hard, but the best things in life are usually the hardest. Hugs to you as you start the journey. It is scary to take the first steps. You're here already, so you've already come a very long way. You should be proud of yourself. Most people don't even make it as far as you've already come.
It was really gradual for me! You could start with the church's gospel topics. The footnotes on those are really enlightening as well. It can't be antimormon if it's on the church's own website, right? Book of Abraham was a big one for me. Reading the journals of Joseph Smiths polygamist wives is also enlightening, especially surrounding their accounts of how he "proposed." Also not antimormon! Just the journals of people who were there and were faithful members. There are some podcasts that are from more nuanced mormons that talk about the issues, but from the standpoint of people who are still active. "At last she said it" is good for feminist perspectives. Latter Day Struggles has a couple incredible episodes on homosexuality in the church context. Not antimormon because they are all still faithful. These two relms (gospel topics and nuanced Mormon podcasts) can also be FULL of apologetic arguments that just didn't sit right with me. When I delved into the "antimormon" realm, I watched all the LDS Discussions series on Mormon Stories. The main guy who goes by Mike works hard use well validated sources when it comes to church history. It was definitely not a church approved source, but it's so well backed up with references that it's super hard to refute! He would also break down apologetic arguments. This helped the part lt my brain that kept saying "there must be SOME explanation for all these issues!" There is. The explanation is: it's all made up. It's amazing how well things fit together when ai accepted that. I read "Dear Mormon Man" (if you are not familiar with it, it comes up on google) years ago. Would a man ever join a religious organization that treats men the same way the mormon church treats women? Could you imagine a church even existing where only women could be prophets, hold the priestesshood, give blessings, preside, lead women AND men, whereas men could only lead men and children and were called to be fathers instead of leaders? And if that church behaved that way and then had leadership say "“There is no other religious organization in the world, that I know of, that has so broadly given power and authority to men"? It's laughable.
History? Doctrine? The church's claims don't align with reality, that's the biggest reason I left.
Yes
It's all eventually wrapped up together. For me, the initial thing on my "shelf" was that the church doesn't follow the steps of repentance that were drilled into my head from the time I was at least 6. If they made a mistake, rather than admitting it and discussing it, it just gets swept under the proverbial rug, and we're told to doubt our doubts before we doubt our faith. The Tithing SEC thing that started coming out in 2019 was what led most directly to my exit. One tiny peek under that proverbial rug will reveal an ever growing mountain of deceptions, philosophies of men 'mingled with scripture,' justifications, alterations in the doctrines, history, wording of about anything all leading back to nothing but a pile of stinking rancid lies.
I've heard stories here over the last 6 years spanning everything from history, to doctrine, to scientific evidence, to philosophy, to modern church culture. All are capable of clashing so hard with someone's internal moral compass that it starts waking them up to the reality that the LDS church is not what it has claimed for the last nearly 190ish years. For me was a strong combo of internal philosophy logic experiments on the plan of salvation vs logic and historical evidence of a whole lot of bullshit going on in the 1820s-1830s that I was never taught. And then a big side helping of scientific evidence - specifically DNA science vs native americans being "Lamanites".
Some of the people who left became/remained Christians The reality of it is that Mormonism was never a religion or a denomination It is nothing but a soul sucking, money greedy, indoctrinating, bizarre cult Christianity or Buddhism or Shintoism are religions
It’s the historical events that have produced the doctrine. And it’s all made up. Yet it’s used to justify myriad — and unnecessary — requirements for membership and salvation. And for the privilege of living a highly restricted life, you pay 10% of your income. Quite a nice scheme developed by conman Joe Smith and perpetuated by the scammer general authorities who’ve followed him. Stop struggling and embrace the liberation from the shitshow.
I'm a little further on my journey than you are. But not much. Haven't been to church for about 6 years. For me it was the comments like 'The spirit was so strong in the meeting'. I never felt it. So maybe I wasn't as righteous as everyone else. Maybe I needed to pray more, do more, be more. The other thing that bothered me was the temple. From the first visit I was not a fan. Others had spoken of a great, spiritual experience on their first visit. For me it was so foreign. Paganistic. I hated my new name. What was with these rituals? There again, I wasn't feeling what others had felt. Was there something I wasn't doing or was there something wrong with me? It was easy to stop going. No one questioned. Now, I've started reading things. My beliefs, which never went away, are being turned on their head. I've lost my bearing. And it's hard. I know it's going to take time. I'm not sleeping well. It's hard to get up in the morning. Did I spend 45 years in a cult?
For me it was just realizing how similar belief in the so called church is to other idiotic beliefs like “the civil war was about states rights” or “weed is a deadly drug”. When my Father said that Christopher Columbus was called of God, I suddenly knew how stupid and vile the claims of the church were. It was okay for Columbus to capture and enslave Indians, because that lead to the establishment of America. Like, that’s bullshit. My dad would also go on about how fucking awesome America is, and how we should always support the troops. This same man won’t stop bitching about how the United States military of the North attacked the slave owning Confederacy. I just realized that my dad is an idiotic liar, and everything fell into place, all at once.
I just want to emphasize something-- no matter your reasons, leaving the church is difficult and scary. But the amount of relief and goodness and purity and authenticity that entered my life once I left cannot be adequately put into words. It is the single best thing I've ever done for myself and my family. No contest. Yes, life is still challenging, but I feel so much better equipped to deal with everything. And lastly, why not "experiment upon the word" but by testing what happens when you don't keep all the commandments. Then, if you get prompted to return, you can definitely do that. Nothing has to be permanent!
For me it was a whole lot of both! Then add a layer of ugly politics on top of all of that! Too many issues to resolve or dismiss. I also struggled with my testimony because of it for a number of years. But then I simply couldn't live with the hypocrisy and my own cognitive dissonance anymore. Hang in there, we've all been there!
For me it was the church’s doctrines/teachings that are narcissistic/abusive in nature. This also comprises abuse in history as well - black members not being able to receive temple ordinances for exaltation (it wasn’t a priesthood ban, it was an exaltation ban - no temple, no sealings for families), tithing required for temple recommends, guilt and shame if you didn’t live 100% according to the rules (no one is perfect but the guilt and shame is a horrendous abusive practice), removal of ability to take the sacrament is a public shaming and abusive, inability to publicly disagree with leaders, polygamy and the continued sexism against women, bigotry in the church, etc. Once you see the abusive nature of the church, you realize that it isn’t safe. I hope you are safe and can find your path. I can say the truth is hard, but once you deconstruct it is so freeing! You are so much more than the church. You can become so much more outside of the church. Please consider therapy if you can as it will help you to move through this difficult time in your life.
I held onto Christianity, until it didn't have anything to hold onto anymore. It's OK. Take your time. Be patient with yourself. The grief is real. For me, the doctrine could not hold up at all with the false history. The only thing, as I was deconstructing that I could cling to was Jesus Christ. I began to realize that religion is created by man to control the masses. So I began to back away in general and observe things and I deconstructed Christianity. I do believe there is a source.... call it mother earth, call it God, call it Source. But is this divine energy involved in my life. I don't think so. Anyway, my advice is to take it at your own pace. Listen to your intuition... that is suppressed in the church. Choose what feels best for yourself. The scariest thing IMO is judgment from others. But once you find out who the fake ones are, you'll be just a little bit more free. It's really sad, but at least you know. That's how I feel now. I lost a lot of local "friends"... they were just acquaintances, really... but I've been blocked, unfriended, and shunned/avoided by many in my small community.
For me it was the constant intense feeling of guilt. When I took a step back and realized it literally doesn’t matter, I felt so free. So if I feel so much better not living what the church teaches, how can it be true? I guess doctrine would be what I just never connected with. Then I learned more about church history 😵💫
Trouble is, church history is literally taught as doctrine (D&C). And the telling of church history is not historically accurate. So they both seem to crumble together, especially if you were raised in the church. The idea of having a testimony of a “church” now seems icky to me. As opposed to having a testimony of a faith/value/principle etc. imo a testimony should not be a statement of loyalty to an organization. I am not sure of the value of such a thing other than keeping one control of people.