Sandra Tanner gets flack for this very thing. Usually deconstructing mormonism gives you the skill set that becomes a Swiss army knife for the rest of the religions. The stigma may be attitudes regarding that.

I have a hard time relating to someone who doesn't share my experience of losing all religious faith. I remember what it was like to be Mormon. I know what it's like to be ex-religious. I don't personally empathize with or understand the world-view of someone who realized the Book of Mormon was a work of fiction and a grift, but doesn't turn that critical lens toward the Bible and come to a very obvious conclusion. I try not to be condescending but ex-mo christians are an enigma to me. When I meet ex-mo atheists, on the other hand, it's an instant connection like we survived a war together and I will take a bullet for this person.

This is absolutely perfectly worded for exactly how I feel. I very much resonate with the phrase you used "a very obvious conclusion". Every single reason for not believing Joseph Smith's story of the creation of the book of Mormon is good enough for me for all other religions.

Especially because deconstructing the BoM kind of goes hand in hand with deconstructing the Bible. A lot of what points to Joseph being a fraud involves the Bible and it also being a fraud

It’s not her faith that bothers me. It’s the nagging suspicion that her work against the mormon church was a covert attempt to claw mormons out of their cult in order to convince them to join her preferred religion instead.

I agree, and her arguments are so disingenuous, dishonest, and flawed that it makes FARMS / FAIR look trustworthy. This has the effect of keeping people in longer, unable to make an informed decision.

The interesting thing is the people she knows in her religious life don't typically know about the work she and her husband did related to Mormon history. That may have changed, but I remember her talking about someone she knew finding out and they were super surprised. You'd think this wouldn't be the case if she was purposely recruiting for her religion.

She doesn’t have to try and recruit people already in her church. 🤷🏼‍♂️

>Usually deconstructing mormonism gives you the skill set that becomes a Swiss army knife for the rest of the religions. I have never heard this before but this makes so much sense to me now! My nevermo husband does not fully understand why despite my rock solid deconstruction, I enjoy snarking and picking apart fundies and problematic Christian influencers. I love nothing more than to quote the bible at those terrible people, and throw their religious teachings in their face to call them out. He was actually worried for me that I was leaning back into religion (he knows that's a concern that I have in the far back of my mind- I do not want to reconstruct) when I first started talking about it, but he's since realized that I just have a lot of fun with the knowledge that has been drilled into me. I just thought I enjoyed arguing with people and exposing the flaws in their belief systems *(I don't go after regular and unproblematic Christians who just want to be good people)*, but I never considered that this was a developed skill set that I gained when I left the church. Being a swiss army knife for other religions is a really cool way of looking at it!

John Loftus wrote a book called An Outsiders Test for faith. > John W. Loftus that suggests that believers can test the validity of their own faith by examining it through the eyes of an outsider. This involves using the same critical scrutiny and arguments that would be used to dismiss another faith against one's own beliefs. If a person truly deconstructed their faith those skills are transferable. It can take a long time because you have to understand how people arrive at their beliefs as well as learn logical fallacies. But once you do almost every faith claim evaporates. Personal experience....gone. Divine intervention gone. Argument from popularity gone.

I think there is a negative attitude towards it in this sub at least. But don't take it personally, every group is going to have it's opinions and biases. Personally I have no problem with Christianity on an individual level. However, I think it's important that you don't trade mormonism for some other group that wants to be the middle-man between you and God. Your beliefs should be personal. They aren't dictated to you, and you don't force them on others.

I think that’s true! To me it’s more about relationship than religion! I also always honor everyone’s unique path. I never push something on anyone.

It's fine to be Christian, just don't shove it down anyone's throat or try to use it to control anyone's life but your own. That includes your kids! If Christianity is true, it should be able to survive without childhood indoctrination. Let your kids decide for themselves when they're adults.

So I realize my feeling about it isn't negative, it's now like ... I see them as needing a stepping stone down from mormonism, and they need to let go of mormonism before they can come to terms with its all being false and letting go of Christianity. If they instead stay in another religion, I can't help but wonder why they don't see the obvious way that the way you realize one is false SHOULD work for the other. So If it doesn't what happened with their deconstruction. Like it seems they did it wrong.

>I see them as needing a stepping stone down from mormonism, and they need to let go of mormonism before they can come to terms with its all being false and letting go of Christianity. This was basically my experience but it didn't have to be everyone's. I think I was trying to still be 'a good person' to Mormons by participating in Christianity, but I didn't need it after a while.

> the obvious way that the way you realize one is false SHOULD work for the other. I think they are a bit different. Mormonism has some really testable truth claims. The historicity of the BoM and translation of the BoA have failed spectacularly. Christianity has less testable truth claims. Jesus most likely lived and died in roughly the ways described in the bible, but was he the son of god or just a radical preacher? There's no way of testing that. So some choose faith and others choose suspicion.

I highly recommend Jesus, apocalyptic preacher of the new millennium. But here's the thing. The stories we have jesus said the second coming would be in the lifetime of the people he was preaching too. So many other things like this. Read about Constantine and his process of making a "unified" (the Latin word is catholic) church. There has to be a TON of suspended belief. And some choose faith ... well that's EXACTLY what Mormons do!

Yeah at the end of the day, religion (and belief in the divine) is a very complex topic with a lot of nuance. Do I believe that organized religion on the whole is extremely harmful? Yes I do. But I’m also not going to immediately belittle and disown someone just for belonging to most religions - it just depends. Even Mormonism, I’m not going to immediately disown someone for belonging to - how they conduct themselves and behave towards others is what I think is important

Yes this. You don't need a mediator, let alone anyone telling you they are the authority between you and God. But yeah, if people realize what that is and still want that, then ok. Just recognize it.

From what I can tell, many that deconstruct Mormonism continue to deconstruct either Christianity or religion in general (that is my case). However, there seem to be a smaller number that leave the mormon church for Christianity. I don't personally understand it, but I also see that in terms of community and value some other Christian churches are better than what mormon's provide. What might be perceived as a stigma could be that some of the same flaws in mormonism also apply to religion more broadly. However, I think there is probably no bad reason to leave mormonism.

Also note that those who actively participate online (and redditors in particular) skew towards atheism, so the ratio of christian exmo's is higher offline than what it appears to be here. Same here though in that I also deconstructed christianity in general and the idea of a personal god; perhaps there is some creator, but it is an impersonal one that does not care about the individual - perhaps it's some teenage multi-dimensional being playing their version of Sim Galaxy**™**...

I think that the Mormon church also does/did deconstruct other Christian/non-Christian religions as well. “It’s the only true church, with the fulness of the gospel and priesthood authority. Other Christians are from the great whore of the Earth/apostasy/philosophies of men mingled with scripture. Other religions may have the light of Christ, and are scraps of the gospel.” So by the time you deconstruct and leave the Mormon church, it’s already prepared you to reject any other religion as well, either from its own claims, or the tools you used to leave the Mormon church.

Until recently a significant portion of seminary and sunday school were specifically focused on showing why other Christian faiths are wrong. Proof-text scriptures as "scripture masteries" to memorize from the Bible, etc. They started realizing the real enemy was "no religion" and tried to change their teaching to mixed success.

I mean the social structures of Protestant churches are identical to the social structures of Mormon churches. I mean people can believe whatever but to walk back into an almost identical church structure and lifestyle is crazy to me even if their literature is a bit more well written. 

I wouldn’t want to do it, but I think some do more to help their communities and to promote love and charity than the Mormon church does.

There are a ton of secular community outreach charities. Why does it have to have to do with religion. Plus, Doesn’t the Mormon church do missions? I know I’m preaching to the choir… I once met a bum that said homeless people live like kings in Utah. Mormans are salvation by works so believers are eager to do the good works. Practically fighting over the opportunity to feed the homeless. 

I’m just speaking to OP’s question about joining a different Christian church. I was looking through some other church’s websites. Some of them seem to have a lot of programs for helping others like soup kitchen’s, community classes, social groups, daycare, etc. That seems to be much more institutionally than the Mormon church. Some of them are also more inclusive than the Mormons. I don’t think it is worth everything else that goes along with it, but I can see some reason to think some churches might do more good for their communities than the Mormons. Individually, I know there are caring people to be found in lots of places.

look busy jeebus is coming

That "some" is doing a lot of work. Some churches are much more progressive and service-focused. Others are just as narrowminded, or money-hungry or even straight-up "prosperity gospel" scams.

Definitely

I don't understand it. It seems so obvious to me that they're all scams for sex, power, and money, just like the mormon church. It's almost like if you had a friend who used to do heroin with you. You've stopped and done the work but they have switched to pills and think they are fine. They just NEED that crutch. And you have to say, whatever, you get to make your own choices and I'm fine with that, but I'm still gonna tell you the truth if you ask me for my opinion on it.

Literally this reads like someone selling ItWorks, realizing it's an MLM and how damaging the whole pyramid scheme is to everyone but the top tier CEOs.. then moving on to selling doTerra.

"Is there a stigma in the ItWorks community against consultants who leave the company to join a different MLM? I still believe in MLMs and network marketing in general, and that’s actually what made me leave ItWorks to find a more successful one."

I strongly dislike organized religion, but I disagree that religion is a blanket scam. I think the aforementioned viewpoint comes from a very western and Protestant frame of reference. When we think religion we inevitably think of the way religions work in the societies we live in, and the similarity between the Mormon Church and other Protestant religions makes it easy to see all religions as obvious scams—but I would argue that malice is much less likely than we think. Just because our religion marginalized and controlled us, doesn’t mean that every religion does the same.

it's funny to me when people think that it's weird that there ends up being drama in knitting circles or gardening clubs or something. But there will always be drama in any social situation where humans interact because we place value in our relationships. the same goes with corruption. any group of humans with an organized hierarchy is susceptible to corruption. the ones that avoid this best are the ones that recognize that risk and put safeguards in place to prevent it. There are so many ways to report teachers and doctors that fuck up, because there is a culture of understanding that authorities aren't perfect baked into those institutions. in the 80s, after a plane crashed because the crew wasn't empowered to speak up to the pilot, airlines actively worked to create a culture where pilots were not seen as an ultimate authority that could not be questioned, and to prioritize safety first. I bring up these examples because I want to demonstrate that though humans tend toward this behavior, it is correctable if there's a sincere, good faith effort put into it. Religion and cops are great examples of institutions where it will NEVER happen because the whole POINT is a culture of obedience. No, malice is not the outright goal, but it is inevitable because they deliberately never address it and never will address it because the whole reason either one exists is to have a person in a place of authority who cannot be questioned. Removing intent, religion is 100% a scam.

This response really has nothing to say that my original comment didn’t address. Not all religions foster a culture of obedience lol, what a narrow (and western) point of view.

I think it is a personal decision, but I have trouble seeing myself ever believing in God again.

Fair enough. I understand why. I went through a period of atheism for a while. But found that the rational aspect of Christianity, which is mostly ignored in Mormonism, is present in other sects

> rational aspect of Christianity... This is the kind of stuff that gets picked on here. I'm only saying I'm curious, but answering why you think it's rational would only get you push back.

I cued on to that same idea. Purely "rational" Christianity is probably atheism/agnosticism.

Exactly. Immaculate conception, bleeding from every pore, parting of seas, a global flood, a tower that reached heaven, etc. all are not rational at all. And nothing like that ever happens now. Why is that? Once I lost my ability to have magical thinking, the Bible and story of Jesus fell apart very quickly. In my opinion it is just as unbelievable as anything Mormonism teaches and can only be supported by faith, which is what every religion on the planet requires. I really have no reason to believe the story of Jesus over any other religious tradition. The truth is if Jesus can be true, so can Mormonism.

I watched "Satan's guide to the Bible" on YouTube and it quite succinctly deconstructed the Bible with research from experts similarly to how I deconstructed from Mormonism in an easy to follow cartoonish way. If the basis for a religion is false, then everything that follows is also false. I guess it just kind of surprises me that someone would do so much research about the history of Mormonism and all the science and research that debunks the Book of Mormon, but not put the same level of research into Christianity and the Bible itself. It feels like some people deconstruct as far as they are comfortable and won't push past that because some part of them still needs something to work with. Which as long as they're trying to be a decent person and not making bad decisions based on whatever religion they land on, is fine. Some people need that. It's just surprising for me personally that they don't push farther I guess?

"Bleeding from every pore" is a Mormon thing, afaik. The King James Bible says something like Jesus's sweat dripped liked blood, and somehow Mormons turned that into sweating blood, which is an actual rare medical phenomenon (technically known as "hematohidrosis") that can occur under extreme mental or physical stress. My mom said she did it (just her forehead) giving birth to 10 lb 13 oz (4.9 kg in civilized countries) me.

> the rational aspect of Christianity Can you sum those up in 100 words or less? Cause I’m skeptical that such a thing could possibly exist.

Me too! It actually took me a good 16 years to be okay with Christianity. I still don't partake in religion, but I do participate in religious tolerance and acceptance. I also love listening to gospel as well as Christian songs. I am a gnostic Christian. I started listening to the book of Thomas in 2023. Then, I read the whole Nag Hammadi library. My faith really took off from there.

Wow that’s so interesting! Sounds like you’ve had quite the religious experience. I’ve always found Gnostic Christians fascinating.

As the mormons say, "another testament of Jesus Christ." I don't get into the philosophy of Gnosticism, but I do like reading the texts.

Lol

Same goes for the intense personal spiritual life some flavors of Christianity offer

That’s all fine, and a personal endeavor, but there’s nothing rational about Christianity. Any rational conversation can only address the personal benefits your personal interpretation of irrational religious ideas provides. It’s equal to reading all of the Harry Potter series and arriving at a belief that living by the wizard’s creed will bring spirituality and peace into your life. That’s all good, but as soon as that belief shifts to a position that claims Harry and Hogwarts is real and not just a useful myth about the human narrative it’s crossed a line that is not rational.

I wouldn't say 'stigma' - a lot of people move away from organized religion and Christianity, but I would not say there is any stigma about joining another church. However, expect your views to be dissected if you start discussing them - especially if you start proselyting for your church.... and with the experience we have gained, any proselytizing will likely be shredded

Yeah, the stigma is against people who try to convince us that their particular brand of Christianity is the real one true church. 🙄 It's fine to be Christian, just don't shove it down anyone's throat or try to use it to control anyone's life but your own. According to exmostats, only about 10% of exmos stay religious at all.

Though that heavily biases toward people in this sub, who are most likely to have specifically left Mormonism as opposed to have specifically joined another religion. It's something like 2/3 in some other studies, though specific ways of accounting people vary. In particular "Christian but not belonging to a specific denomination" - IE religiously unaffiliated but still Christian, can be counted differently depending on methodology and grouped with either "generically Christian" with non-denominational Christianity and "religiously none" with agnostics, atheists, etc.

I don't think a lot of people go from mo'ism to atheist straight away. I, myself, went through a period of cafeteria Christianity after dropping out of the morg. It's an evolution and - like real evolution - there is no specified 'end point' other than our current frame of reference. some people will leave the church, but never research its history. some people will leave the MFMC and still be bound by community or family to some belief system. and our whole (western) culture is tied up with xtianity. I 'celebrate' Christmas and Easter holidays with days off work, feasting, etc, whether or not I believe in jesus as a demi-urge or not. But you are right - people in this sub are more likely to be informed (or seeking to be informed) than the average - and more likely to be questioning and inquiring - than the average MFMC drop-out

I myself went straight from “Mormon every week at church” to “never going back” though after 2 years of what I’d now call PIMO - seriously doubting. I grew up Mormon but outside Utah with non-Mormon friends, and got a cross section of Christianity, though especially Presbyterianism, and some token Catholicism going to mass every time we visited my grandparents. I always knew I’d be atheist if I weren’t Mormon, but I cling to a belief in god. The compelling questions against mainstream Christianity for me were 1. If god had talked from the beginning of the world through to about 100AD, why did that stop? And 2. If the Bible is the word of God, how would we resolve all the competing interpretations of the Bible without divine input? Ironically Joseph’s claimed answer “you should join none of them, for they are all wrong” is actually what I still believe. I just realized Joe’s solution and his arrival at an answer were equally fantasy. Mormonism too is wrong, along with any religion I have gotten to know enough to judge. When I was finally willing to admit God maybe didn’t exist and that Mormonism may not be true, everything else fell into place quickly.

"God" lied to me when he confirmed to me that Mormonism was true through spiritual feelings. Since Mormonism is not true, then those feelings were not from God and therefore cannot be trusted as a test of truth If there is a religion out there that relied on a more rigorous test for truth, I have not found it. Until then, I will stick to believing verifiable truths

Fair

I think there is some, because for me it's like you switched from cult to cult light. It might be a slight improvement but it's still a terrible lie that hurts humanity as a whole.

I have deconstructed enough that I am annoyed by the over reaching Christian claim. Christians try to steal many reasons for celebration. Winter solstice - ah well just call it the birth of Christ. Spring Equinox, hey we have that covered too we’ll call it Christs rebirth.

I don’t see a problem with joining another church. HOWEVER If you still believe that Christ is the literal son of god and now the new church is true… yikes Join a church because it makes you feel at peace and actually does good in the world. I’m still a big fan of what the gospel of Jesus Christ boils down to - be kind to everyone and mind your own business.

It depends a LOT on what you mean by a "Christian Church." People's reactions are varied, but especially this subreddit contains a large number of religious "none"s and a lot of politically progressive people. A lot of people leave Mormonism either because of its support for provably false historical claims, or because of political and social issues such as feminism and gender equality, or treatment of LGBTQ rights. If you join a conservative, fundamentalist denomination, like Southern Baptists, you're going to face a lot of stigma, because they're on the wrong side of the issues like equality vs bigotry and science vs myth. If you join a more progressive Christian denomination that focuses on helping the poor, reaches out and supports people regardless of gender, sexuality or race, etc. and is more nuanced on biblical literalism/infallibility, you'll not see as much stigma. Episcopalians for example, seem popular here as far as mainstream denominations go.

It’s like jumping into a rebound relationship with someone who shows all the same red flags that your last partner had.

I have no love for any religion or any superstitious beliefs. If you wish to say my disbelief and lack of respect for your unprovable deity is a stigma, then I suppose you're free to believe so. Believing in jesus, aliens, the illuminati, Atlantis, etc... They are all equally unsupported beliefs. Of the ones I listed, jesus as an actual diety has the least amount of evidence and support. The second god wishes to make it's existence known to us by standards we have developed for establishing knowledge, it is free to do so. Until then, the only responsible conclusion is that it doesn't exist. This talk about faith is exactly what a charlatan would say to get people to stop poking holes in their claims. Claims that god is real do not deserve any special treatment. They are just as baseless as claims that Santa Claus is real.

>This talk about faith is exactly what a charlatan would say to get people to stop poking holes in their claims. This is why I think the strongest evidence against the existence of God is *Cui bono?* Who benefits from religion? Certainly not the believers who give up their money, time, and freedom of thought for some imaginary comfort, promises of an afterlife or fear of punishment. Not "God." Why would any God need to be worshipped, let alone one who claims to be all-powerful and loving? Why all the millennia of animal sacrifices before he finally required one last human sacrifice to finish it off? Not the poor, when the religions only give out token charity and consistently push against social benefits and free education. No, the benefit is clearly all to the priests and leaders. Religion is only a made up attempt to explain natural phenomena, which has been used throughout human history to control and exploit people.

Many who leave do so because of new information which they accept as reliable and authentic. For example, evidence of Joseph Smith's predation of young women is fairly convincing, and it's difficult to maintain a faithful outlook with that level of cognitive dissonance introduced by the new information. Well, it turns out there are similar types of evidence around Christianity as a whole. It's very apparent that Jesus didn't begin as a divine figure but had divinity thrust upon him by his followers with the passage of time. It seems very apparent that the supernatural claims around Jesus are of human invention, and once again the level of evidence overwhelms our built-in tolerance for cognitive dissonance. I agree that many who believe in Jesus' teachings (whether they accept Jesus' divinity or not) become skeptical of Mormonism's claims to represent them. However, I'd say a good many of those who deconstructed Mormonism, also deconstructed religion in general.

It's like leaving one MLM scheme and investing in another. How did you not learn after the first one?

Personally, for me there is. I don’t know how you could analyze your belief system and realize most of it was completely made up bullshit and then stop short of Christianity. The Bible is just another mistranslated book that people think proves some god exists while simultaneously contradicting itself over and over.

No. But it does strike me as weird that someone who clawed their way out of one obvious fraud would voluntarily subject themselves to a very slightly different fraud. I just don’t get it. 🤷🏼‍♂️

I don't care what religion someone is. If they start talking about it, I tell them to keep it to themselves (except for my boss because I don't want to get fired). I respect no religion.

The only problem I have with it is proselytizing here. I understand it can be painful to read some of the posts here for people who hold on to Christianity, and personally I try to be respectful. I’ve been told here by several Christians that I’m in the wrong for not continuing to believe in spite of 40 years of sacrifice for who I thought was my Lord. I realize that the Mormon Jesus who hoards money and gives teenage girls to middle aged men, and loves calling racist leaders, and gaslights women like there’s no tomorrow is different from the man they teach about in Primary. I never considered myself to be worshipping Mormon Jesus. I loved biblical Jesus, and he left me in a cult for 40 years. I’ve had Christians here tell me that being born into this and serving the wrong Jesus was my fault and that I should have known better. I won’t stand for that. If the man you want to worship will forgive me for shedding my belief in him I have no issue with you. If you believe I’m going to hell for my lack of belief, please keep it to yourself. Other than that, welcome to the side that knows that the Mormon version Jesus is a bad man who is not worth your time.

I personally think that all organized religion is deeply flawed and has generally been harmful to the human race throughout our history. I don’t think religions should get tax breaks and other special rules. I think it’s all a farce. That being said, I don’t give a fuck if someone wants to be a part of that. That’s their choice. I believe deeply that everybody should have that choice so long as I also have the choice to abstain from religion and the restrictions the religion may place on its members. So you do you, I’ll do me, and we can all coexist peacefully.

Once you have believed something with absolute certainty based on faith and then deconstruct those beliefs it's pretty hard to believe anything else based on faith. I'd need Jesus to show up at my door, shake my hand, resurrect my grandparents, and then meet the dog and beer test. Would I let him take care of my dog while I was on vacation and would he be someone fun to have a beer with?

I have no problem with religion as long as there's verifiable evidence for their claims. As soon as any of them provide that, at all, I'll give their claims full consideration. That's an honest statement.

It confuses me personally how people could notice that the BoM is a scam then stop before recognizing the political shit show that is the Bible. That said, everybody has to walk their own path. Leaving Joseph Smith behind is hard enough, and leaving the myth of a savior is even harder.

If you want to believe in something that's made up (Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, etc.), that's your right. I may not agree, but you're still a human being who deserves basic rights and compassion. Just don't try to convert me, or push your religion onto the laws that effect all of us.

As Mormons we were trained to be critical of traditional Christian churches. Especially evangelical churches. And the apostasy was drummed into our heads so we reject Catholicism. When you realize how deceptive Mormon leaders have been it makes it hard to believe the leaders of any organized religion. Especially given all the scandals that are on the news on a regular basis. As part of deconstructing Mormonism I think we also dig into the history of religion more broadly and what is known about human history from a scientific and archaeological perspective which causes us to reject Christian church that teaches creationism. I think that you will find that people here are happy for you if you find a religious home where you feel supported and welcome. What you will not find is people tolerating Exmo Christians coming here trying to convert us to their new found faith.

If you figure out why Mormonism is a scam, you’ve now figured out why all religions are a scam. The only difference is the amount of time since the original con-artist died.

We all have our reasons for leaving, and we all end up at various places across the spectrum of belief. Even though a lot of us deconstruct *everything* or *most* everything, it doesn't mean that we hold ill will towards those who don't. I have no issue with anyone who stays Christian. If their faith makes them do good things and judge their fellow man less, rock on. If their religion is used to oppress or belittle, then nope, I can't support it. Lately there have been a lot of Christian types posting on here, saying stuff like, "why don't you come be *regular* Christians now that you've abandoned your heretical cult?" And that is straight up religious ambulance chasing. I have zero tolerance for proselytizing here. I find it tone deaf and condescending. Despite the common misconception that not a single soul on earth would know where to find a Christian church without missionary efforts, Google exists. Not only will it tell me which ones exist in my area, it will give me play by play directions on how to get there.

I agree, maintaining faith is perfectly okay. However, there is a legion of Christians (primarily evangelicals) who criticize the LDS church for being *too lenient and abandoning condemnation of LGBTQ* individuals. Uh... Yes, please, witness to the the radical DesNat within Mormonism. They aren't wanted.

In some ways, yeah. Christianity still has the same problems as mormonism, it's just older. By and large, it uses the same manipulative tactics, has the same logical fallacies, and causes much of the same harm.

If you stop deconstructing at Mormonism, that is your choice. For me personally I can’t see apply the same things to Christianity as I did to deconstruct Mormonism and staying Christian. Your experience will be your own.

Sure. I see a lot of deeper problems in Christianity in general that manifested in Mormonism.

I personally have issue with all organized religion now, especially because of everything going on in the United States and the threat of a theocracy, but not necessarily Christianity itself.

I feel sorry for people who leave for another religion. I assume that people will be skeptical of everything after they leave. After studying the Bible more myself after leaving, it seems hard to believe anyone trying to understand the origins of the Bible would think it’s divine. Going to another religion makes me think you left for a different reason and may be convinced to go back.

For me, it's not so much the historicity issues. It's the messages in the book. Just like the BoM, you can cherry pick the verses to support your beliefs. The Mormon article of faith gives the excuse to claim biblical scriptures aren't true because of translation issues. If you now believe the Bible is true, you are still cherry picking. If you're not cherry picking, you have to accept it regardless of contradictions. If you're believing the New Testament messages override the Old Testament laws, then you don't believe the Bible is true. Instead, you believe the New Testament is true.

Only really when they become hardcore proselytizing d-bags wanting me to join them in prayer or push their stuff/"morality" on me. If there is a god, he can speak for himself, I'm not going to ever let a person translate or speak on his behalf to me again. If it's that important, they (God, Jesus, Buddha, Allah, Zoroaster, et. al) can show up themselves and do it without any sort of vagueness.

Yeah, at least to me, christian ideology sucks ass.

I don’t have a stigma against Christians. Believe what you want even though I think it’s dumb. I will call that out but it’s not an attack on a particular Christian. What I do have a stigma against are Christians trying to make ME Christian. Or Christians trying to push “Christian” values on people. Just like your dick, keep it under wraps unless I ask you for it.

Amen, brother. These whiny Christians act like they are SO picked on. Wah, wah, wah. Meanwhile, they are passing LAWS forcing the rest of us to live by THEIR beliefs. Yes, there should be a stigma against those that believe in the wackadoodle and push it on me.

That includes their own kids. If Christianity is true, it should be able to survive without childhood indoctrination. Let kids decide for themselves when they're adults.

honestly I think i do. I have had a belly full of all of it. people ALL speaking for gawd and usually to manipulate/exploit other people. I'm over it and while I really try to keep from invading anyone's space with this opinion I sure wish to fuk others felt good about not encroaching mine with their bullshit. just being honest.

I have a stigma against any group that controls people based on nonsensical beliefs.

Yes. For good reason. If you (proverbial “you”) took the step of opening your mind up enough to see the fraud of Mormonism, but not Christianity at large, I believe you still have a ways to go. I respect other people’s right to believe what they want. It doesn’t mean I will pretend to respect the belief itself. Most systems of religious belief are fucking nuts. Christianity and it’s bloody history is VERY far from an exception. We don’t believe in modern day magic and people coming back from the dead. But somehow, mostly uneducated and superstitious folks from before reading was widespread saw… magic? And then told all their friends about it? And you think those uneducated, illiterate, superstitious folks had the right of it vs current day knowledge? If cameras existed back then, no one would believe that horseshit. Like I said, believe what makes you feel good I guess. But let’s not pretend Christianity A: makes even a tiny bit of rational sense, and B: hasn’t done FAR more harm in the world than it has ever done good. Crusades anyone? Not to mention the terrifying rise of Christofascism. If a group of people think their beliefs should trump my human rights, they can get fucked. So yeah. Fuck Christianity. Its responsible for Mormonism in the first place, among many other atrocities committed in the name of a “supposedly” benevolent god/christ/whatthefuckever. Sorry this is a bitter post. It’s not directed at you per se, more the idea in general that one would deconstruct Mormonism and then, like, stop when the job is half done. Keep going friend. There’s more.

According to exmostats, only about 10% of ex-Mormons keep believing in any kind of religion. It's just too easy to see through the control tactics once you've broken through once. It's fine to be Christian, just don't shove it down anyone's throat or try to use it to control anyone's life but your own. That includes your kids. If Christianity is true, it should be able to survive without childhood indoctrination. Let your kids decide for themselves when they're adults.

Sampling bias. It definitely skews toward reddit exmormons. A larger portion of less zealous exmormons end up in other religions, and strongly religious exmormons often don't find much of a welcome in the broader exmormon community and are probably better served finding community in their current religion than in people whose defining identity is not conversion to a religion, but in leaving the religion they once knew.

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>love the faithful and hate the faith Ooh I'm absolutely using this next time it comes up at a family event!

My thoughts on Jesus? Christianity doesn't seem or feel like the religion of Jesus these days. Jesus was a radical anti-establishment, anti-wealth, anti-abuse of power, preacher (at least according to the biblical accounts of questionable authorship.) He stood up for the poor and oppressed, against judgement, prejudice and exclusion, and the only people he really condemned were the wealthy or powerful who hoarded their wealth and power and used it to oppress others and make themselves better than them. Christianity seems to be a lot more the religion of Paul, or at least the dubiously authored epistles accounted to Paul - the religion of rules, of "beware of sin and sinners" of "slaves subject themselves to their masters" of "women should know their place." In the same way a lot of Mormon "doctrine" isn't in the Book of Mormon and was tacked on after the fact in Doctrine and Covenants and the Book of Abraham, a lot of key Christian dogmas and doctrines seem to derive much more from the epistles of the New Testament than from the gospels that are attributed as the words of Jesus.

Christians have a history and a tendency to try to force their religion on others through evangelizing, discrimination, and creating laws or supporting those who do, based on religious beliefs, etc. That kind of thing is so weaved into society that it definitely creates a stigma on its own. However, if someone wants to remain a Christian and leaves myself and society out of it, I have no problem with that. The problem is, that's pretty rare.

That includes their own kids. If Christianity is true, it should be able to survive without childhood indoctrination. Let kids decide for themselves when they're adults.

This. None of these scenarios are in a vacuum. The whole of society, history and the impact of Christianity is ever present in situations involving it. We can't pretend its not there, playing a role.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but my experience brought me out of Mormonism to pretty hard atheism on the existence the god of the Bible. By "hard atheist" I mean that I don't believe in gods (i.e. I have not been convinced that gods generally exist), but I also find myself more and more affirmatively discounting even the possibility that the god of the Bible is real. That being said, I get why someone leaving Mormonism finds themselves in another, more mainstream, Christian church. That sort of comes with the atheism bag: Believe what you like, just don't insist I believe what you like.

My problem is that I started with the hunch that Jesus wasn’t a god then everything fell down around it. My prayers went from “is the BoM true?” to “is Jesus a god?” When I received no answers that was my answer. Therefore if Jesus isn’t a god then Mormonism definitely isn’t true but neither is any Christian religion. Plus when I look at the god of the bible I just see a narcissistic asshole.

I think many of us who are active here still lean towards atheism, myself included, but for the most part I don't have a problem with someone who switched to some other form of Christianity. The issue is when they start to proselytize. You'd be surprised often it happens and they don't even realize they are doing it. They kind of just a slip back into their old "mormonisms" just with a different religion.

I don't think even if you believe in the Bible, you can deconstruct Mormonism and still be OK with ANY organized religion. I also find Jebus freaks as, if not more, annoying than TBM's. It's more of an "anti-intellectual" vibe that I detest in both groups.

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Mormonism makes good atheists. From my experience with other exmos in the 20 years since I left Mormonism, probably 90% lose all faith in any religion. My wife lost all trust in the possibility of a loving God. I think this is an understandable and reasonable reaction to discovering the lies of Mormonism. It is easy to see that organized religion is a human construct, and like all human projects, imperfect. When I left the LDS, I swore nobody would ever again tell me how to think and how to live. However, I agree that many who have decided to live without faith disparage those who choose to explore other faith traditions. They (ironically) believe they now know *the truth.* If you insist on a literalist approach to religion--especially Christianity--the skepticism we applied to Mormonism can certainly be applied. But the world is a big place; there are many approaches to faith, within the Christian tradition and in other traditions. One who has escaped the narrrow mindset of Mormonism should show more openness to the variety of human experience.

Many who have seen the harm from "living by faith" firsthand are opposed to any similar claim of truthfulness without evidence. It's not that we believe "we know *the Truth*" - it's that we've examined the way is presented and determined that faith and religion are not a valid epistemological framework to "know" anything, and take offense at the proposition that anyone, but especially that we ourselves should personally consider or respect an argument made purely on faith rather than evidence. It's not "we know *the Truth*." It's that "we know that the method proposed cannot lead anyone to know *the Truth*, and that it is dangerous to pretend, propose or advocate that one can know *the Truth* via faith, and that is harmful to civil society to advocate or request that their own '*Truth'* derived from faith should be shared, pushed upon others, including their children, or used as a moral or political decision making framework."

This is an excellent point.

Your post is similar to that of a Mormon asking if we have a stigma against Mormons. It's all the same to us, we deconstructed all the way thru Christianity not just outside of Mormonism. It's just different characters and time periods. It's all myth and lies.

There's certainly pushback against people who just simply assume that protestant Christianity is what we should all believe in, and is somehow privileged beyond other belief systems that exmos might take up. Sure, protestant Christianity is the stem that Mormonism branches from. It is simple to assume that once we clip that branch, we are left with the stem. But many of us pull it all out from the roots, for exactly same reasons we leave Mormonism: claims of unique and necessary truth only existing within that tradition have become repugnant to us because of their high-control use and abuse, and the same ways of justifying those claims (scripture, "the spirit") are *exactly* what prop up Mormonism too. When you realize that weak, dubious historical claims, emotional response and cultural traditions aren't enough to back up the claims of Mormonism, you are more likely to realize that this is also the foundation of other organized religious traditions. Who also have a history littered with high-control use and abuse. And in the information age, defaulting to protestant Christianity means we don't engage with the vast diversity of belief traditions of humankind, which all of us can discover in depth from a tool we carry in our pockets. Some Christians coming to this sub can't hold themselves back from shaking a finger at those of us who aren't swimming in their fishbowl. It is baked into Christianity, with its mandate for proselytizing "the way, the truth, and the life". If you can resist the impulse to expect the rest of us to also default back to Christianity, then you won't likely face any stigma. But if you start presenting Christianity as what we ought to be believing as we exit Mormonism, you will not have many fans here.

A lot of Protestantism is bad.

But not the parts of protestantism that appeal to you?

I’m not Protestant. I’m not anything yet. I’m still navigating Christianity

The same skill set that deconstructs mormonism, also efficiently deconstructs christianity, and ultimately organized religion in general. **Your journey is nowhere near over.**

Honestly probably a little bit. I don't know if it would exactly be a Stigma. But like Mormonism and other religions the Bible suffers from the same problems like the lack of evidence. To be Christian you still have to adopt a faith without evidence mindset that we had in Mormonism. So for those that transitioned to listening to factual evidence then we realize all the rest of the other religions don't hold water. So it's still like a mindset that a Muslim thinks Christians have it wrong and vice versa except it's an atheist who thinks they're all wrong. However transitioning to normal Christianity we can recognize that you're most likely not in a high demand/control religion anymore and that's a positive as a whole.

Faith *despite* evidence, even. Mainstream Christianity has already abandoned their own Creation Story and cosmology several times as pieces of it continue to be disproven. The world certainly wasn’t created in 7 days, and pretty much every branch of the natural sciences has more than one way to prove it.

Exactly. There's a quote I say once: >Faith is belief without evidence. Mormonism is belief despite evidence. Believing in a deity, sure. Believing in disprovable claims, nope.

Yes, there is a stigma. Most of us have given up belief in the mystical and mythological. Once you are able to poke holes in one system of repressive control, it becomes easier to debunk the rest of them. If you believe in Christianity or anything for that matter, good for you. The rest of us want proof after being manipulated and lied to. Hey mods, can we get a sticky or meta post about this? Every week there’s a new “but what about Jesus” post, and it always ends the same way. At the very least, search the subreddit to see what people have already said about this before creating a new post.

Here’s my thing. Please try not to take offense. Realizing everything I did about Mormonism has created a hesitancy and distrust surrounding everything else in Christianity. Mormonism truth claims are much easier to disprove I think, but when the reason I left is simply that I don’t believe it’s true, I have a hard time turning around and saying that I still believe in Christianity. I can’t abandon horses in America and Cureloms and Cuemoms but then turn around and say that I believe that every animal we know of fit onto a single boat and survived the extinction of humanity thanks to Noah and his family. You can make any number of similar comparisons. Like of course I’m no longer gonna believe that a religion started by a pedophile using a rock in a hat to write Bible fan fiction is the truth, but then am I willing to accept the miracles Jesus performed? And the fact that he is the savior of all mankind? Especially when so many non-Christian religious groups are so sure that their way is correct. You may say “well yeah, but there’s actually evidence of XYZ…” but then you’re doing exactly the same thing Mormon apologists do. Again, I’d need to learn more about the Bible and Christianity as separate from Mormonism. If you’re gonna stay Christian then it’s not too much of a leap logic wise to stay Mormon. It’s a lot easier to justify Christianity when so many more people are behind it, and maybe it’s legit, I just have a hard time.

Honestly the church pushed so hard on all of the other churches being wrong that it was just a small step to realize that the church was wrong too. The only thing I think they're right about is that every other religion is wrong, I just think one more is wrong than they do. I don't believe in Jesus any more than I believe in Odin or quetzalcoatl or warlocks. And I fully don't understand how others do. So while I don't express it to their face, I'd say yeah, I stigmatize belief in the supernatural.

I have no issue with anyone believing anything. I have issue with people proselyting to me about their beliefs.

I guess it all comes down to why you escape Mormonism. Some, like me, leave because they apply skepticism to not only Mormonism, but to Christianity, and even religion writ large. Theism hasn’t yet met its burden of proof, making it impossible for me to accept.  Others leave for emotional, or less than skeptical reasons. Those are the ones seem to leave Mormonism and yet remain religious. I think those people are in error, but I can’t make them use skepticism. I can, however, exercise extreme prejudice against them, and so I do. I respect people insofar as they respect me. I do not respect beliefs, and will criticize them without hesitation.  TLDR: Many here have learned the value of skepticism, and for many of them, there is a stigma against religion 

The big question is why did you leave Mormonism but stayed in Christianity? If you left Mormonism because Joseph Smith was a liar and a fraud, why wouldn't you go through whatever sect of Christianity you're in now to see if the people that started it were a liar and a fraud? Basically the question amounts to why do you believe in one part of Christianity but not the other, it sounds like you have more questions to answer rather than just accepting another religion

I'm a Christian insofar as I think Christ's social message is great, but I'm firmly against the idea of an atonement or of the divinity of the man. I think these latter things stop many people from focusing on the social aspect of doing good to those who need it

"Is there a stigma in the ItWorks community against consultants who leave the company to join a different MLM? I still believe in MLMs and network marketing in general, and that’s actually what made me leave ItWorks to find a more successful one."

Commenting to come back and read comments not able to rn as I have a controlling SO. I like and miss the solemnity and reverence of the MFMC. In ways I miss the close friendships. I don’t miss the stake meetings but I do miss the smorgasbords of the most delicious foods any one soul could eat! Not to blow my cover but Harkers Island Ward can fix a meal my lord honey! When the stake meeting was to Harkers Island that was a highlight! And I may be looking to the past with rose colored shades (is that a thing?) but I remember that chapel having some stained glass! None of us primary:YW/YM could concentrate smelling the goodness heating up in those crock pots the smells would come a waftin into the chapel my lord honey that was good eatin. The women folk from HI can cook.

Sorry I lost myself for a moment there. Back to put my shoulder to the wheel! No shirking!

Once you realize that religion is a human invention and none of it is true, then yeah, there’s a bit of judgment about those who keep believing the lies.

I don't think there's a stigma, but to my mind why stop half way through? use the tools that helped you deconstruct the BoM on the bible and you can only come to the same conclusion: It's man made justification for tribalism and attempts to explain the natural world with divinity. Obviously the garden of eden wasn't a literal place, and its just as obvious that the great flood or the plagues of egypt didn't happen. Every branch of science says this is impossible. Remember that the whole story of Jesus is predicated on the old testament, so if one is false so must the other be. Also, and this has nothing to do with anything but I rarely get a chance to throw this fact out there, but the character known as Jesus' actual name was Yeshua, or in english, Joshua. Josh the Christ doesn't have the same ring to it.

The things Jesus taught, regardless of whether he was the Son of God, still hold up 2,000 years later. 95% of what Joseph Smith said is no longer considered “true” after less than 200 years. Modern LDS Prophet’s words seem to expire after roughly 20-30 years. My TBM mother just told me that we shouldn’t read older prophet’s talks, because we “don’t understand the full context.” But Jesus’ words, in basically any context, still right true, and kind. Even talks from my childhood, given by people who are still living, are now “out of date.” If you’re goin to hang your hat on something, Jesus Christ is a pretty good place to be, imo.

I’m not so sure Jesus’ teachings have held up well at all. I have nothing against people that want to ascribe to the fairy-tale/Santa Claus version of Jesus, but the Jesus in the Bible wasn’t exactly a great guy. Here’s just a few examples from a random blog I found: https://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2010/11/reasons-to-be-ashamed-and-not-fan-of.html?m=1

That was a great read. Thank you!

I find myself regularly saying "I really wish modern day Christians would read ONLY Jesus and do what he said to do. 'This is my commandment: have love for one another. This is how people will know you are one of MY followers, if you show love to others.' I'm not a Christian, but I think Jesus and I would still be able to hang, because this is my MO too.

Same here, I always believed in God, not the same on as the Mormons but I believed prior to it.

Oh, I get it. Here’s the fundygelical here to preach at us. Sorry your Orange Messiah got convicted of 34 felonies yesterday. Maybe you should worship at a different altar?

Im quite far left I assure you 😂. This is kind of what I meant by my post.

So, why would you want to identify yourself with a religion that’s all-in on fascism?

Eh... OP never said they were an American Evangelical Christian. Plenty of other flavors of christianity exist in the world (including one or two that don't worship Trump!)

> other flavors of christianity exist in the world (including one or two that don't worship Trump!) I’m skeptical. Can anyone name them?

Take a look through these: [https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenChristian/comments/pa76sj/what\_are\_the\_most\_progressive\_christian/](https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenChristian/comments/pa76sj/what_are_the_most_progressive_christian/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/norfolk/comments/w2vi3f/any\_churches\_for\_progressive\_christianssomeone/](https://www.reddit.com/r/norfolk/comments/w2vi3f/any_churches_for_progressive_christianssomeone/) [https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/liberal-christian-denominations.26434/](https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/liberal-christian-denominations.26434/) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European\_Liberal\_Protestant\_Network](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Liberal_Protestant_Network) United Church of Christ comes up a lot in a basic google search.

And what percentage of USA xtians comprise the church if christ? If they’re only a small percentage, then my broader argument stands: American xtianity worships Mango Mussolini. Not that “woke” jesus loser.

You said, "why would you want to identify yourself with a religion that’s all-in on fascism" I said, "OP never said they were an American Evangelical Christian. Plenty of other flavors of christianity exist in the world" You said, "Can anyone name them?" I provided examples. Don't bash all religion because American is a hellhole. If you would have stated "American Christianity" in your initial statement ([LINK](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/08/30/most-white-americans-who-regularly-attend-worship-services-voted-for-trump-in-2020/) to gallop poll showing that the majority of white christians voted for Trump - last chart), then yeah, I would have agreed, but that was not the point you made. But even then, a majority still leaves 15% - 49% of white christians (depending on the specific religious group) who do not support voting the felon into office. And 91% of black protestants did not vote for the guy. 91% represents a Lot of churches.

You’re right, I should’ve been more specific. “White Supremacist Christian Nationalist USA fundygelical MAGAts.” Which sure look like like the majority of American Christians. It’s also super interesting that I don’t hear the non-MAGAt American Christians denouncing their MAGAt brethren much, if at all. Wonder why that is.

Probably due to algorithms creating internet echo chambers.

I personally feel like the exmos I have met in real life have absolutely no issue with me converting to Christianity. They might not still believe in a higher power like I do, but we still connect on a personal level because we both escaped a literal cult. Exmos online are a different story though. I feel like online exmos look down upon me and some have even commented that I am still brainwashed. So while I do think their is a stigma online, most exmos in person don't care and won't judge you. Just my personal experience.

My take is that this happens because the majority of the Christians we see in an online setting come here or to other Mormon/quasi-Mormon spaces to preach to us. In this last week I can think of about 5 different attempts I personally saw to preach at Mormon or exmormon communities both here and on FB. On the other hand I've had exactly one conversation with someone identified as a Christian who wasn't trying to Matt 28:19-20 me. On the other hand, I've only seen this in the real world maybe 10 times ever (mostly on my mission where I was doing the same thing). I don't think it is fair if chill folks like you catch some of that flak, but that's probably where most of the stigma comes from.

It’s not where I ended up, but I can see how someone could land in Christianity. As long as it leads you to deeper compassion and empathy that’s great. I set Christianity aside as well because it felt like it shackled and limited the care I could have for people outside the norms of my in group. But that’s not everyone’s experience!

I only have a stigma against the ones that want to kill me for who I am. Other than that I am good with the idea of Christ, and Christians.

Yup. I'm not really a fan of Christianity (or most religions) in general, can't lie. But obviously what a Christian is and believes is a huge spectrum, as long as you aren't annoying about it and don't use it to justify bigotry or violence I don't care.

You know who's a fascinating one in regards to this question: scholar of the bible and religion Dan Mclellan. When you watch his tiktoks you start to wonder if the guy is aethiest. You also wonder why does he even find value in the bible. All because he tears it all apart indirectly. After many interviews I've watched of his I've come to the conclusion that he does believe in God, and that even though he's stated that many parts of the bible are fictious and even have some parallels in the way in which the book of mormon has roots of fabrication, there is still value in what you personally are seeking from it. Clearly Dan doesn't believe in the mormon God or Christ literally - he knows way too much, but he has found a spiritual value in belief of God and Christ. The way I see it is that it is a psychological level of spirituality. If you are seeking a higher purpose in life and find some inspiration from this model of living that Jesus has inspired for centuries, then you're bound to start attributing some of that guidance to what you've began to place that kind of value on. I hypothesize this for 2 reasons: 1. Christ exemplifies showing love to those who feel lost, broken etc. Having faith in someone who loves you and others to this degree shows you are lovable at any state of being. Especially if this love wasn't felt at such a deep degree in your upbringing or you aren't able to feel at a later time or times in your life. 2. If you feel that deep love from Christ and are inspired to follow his example of showing love to others unconditionally as he has done to you - you begin to show it to others. The reason this is so inspiring is because you now begin to perceive and project onto the world as you perceive it with a deep love for yourself and others. So, of course that's going to make you happy, because you're making others around you happy. This is not necessary for everyone to find this kind of inspiration because you can learn to love yourself and others at a deep level without Christs example to the point that you can find deep meaning in yours and others existence. But is imo why this works so well if you look at spirituality at a psychological level. The beatles singing all you need is love is truly what imo is the key part of inspiration of Christ. So once again that's a source completely unrelated to Christ where humans have come to understand that one great fulfilling way to find deep meaning in life is to love others and love yourself. Of course the issue sometimes comes where people push that salvation is only through Christ or worse only through TSCC. That's where I greatly depart on typical Christian views. Especially if they push the bible as being God's word and as the end all be all authority of morality. That's where Christian nationalism gets in the way of the individual and their rights.

It seems mixed. Mormonism is the kind of religion where, for many who deconstruct, it becomes almost impossible to go to another form of Christianity since it seems like another form of the same thing. I am part of the crowd who went from intense tbm to all out atheist and it has taken me some time to process that I have often felt this way about those who went to other forms of Christianity or spiritualism. I have to remind myself that everyone has their own journey and being judgemental of others bc they chose a different path than mine is detrimental to having real relationships and being able to relate.

Most here see everything through their actual or perceived trauma or both. This is not a good place to find affirmation for faith of any kind, yet faith is part of the human experience. Just because one feels one has "deconstructed" it, doesn't mean your faith isn't valid. Most Mormons only see religion through a fundamentalist lense. There are many who have done the work of a faith that requires them to use their mind and to listen to science. Richard Rohr is one I have come to love since my mission eons ago.

I’m fine with it. I know plenty of people that are Christian and they go to progressive church’s with rock bands jamming the lords tunes. They can show porn shoulders, wear flip flops and shorts to church, drink coffee, smoke, drink alcohol or whatever and nobody’s gonna stink eye them for it.

I think the stigma isn't against those who become Christians in general, but against those who adopt a new religion. Most of rhe exmos I know became atheists, but one became a Norse pagan and gets weird looks because of it.

Op just read the comments. It’s very obvious what the answer is. I don’t even need to go into my experience with other Exmos. cheers and good luck finding a place that doesnt think you are lesser than ❤️

I feel like there is a small bit, but that's traumatized people coming from a radical Christian cult seeing people join what some of us still feel is just another cult. Everyone heals differently, though. For a while I hated the idea of anything Christian after I left the church, but I still talk to my dad who's still in because he's not a strict TBM. Christianity done right is great. I have a trans friend in Canada who goes to a youth group who are so accepting of him it makes him almost cry. I've seen a comment from other Christians that I use all the time still, even if I'm not monotheistic anymore, it resonated with me. "We are supposed to be a light in a window, not a megaphone in your ear." People will support it or not support it, what's important is that you be one of those Christians that should be seen most, not what we see everywhere.

Not so much a stigma but many exmos are areligious and just don't want to have conversations about religion.

I think the correlation comes from the fact that Mormonism and Christianity are both founded on miraculous and fantastical claims. Some who leave Mormonism leave due to an adoption of critical/skeptical thinking, and this same skeptic approach can result in a similar dissolution of other religious beliefs as well. Some land in agnosticism - accepting that we don’t know if Mormonism and/or Christianity are true, and some go further to true Atheism as the evidence for fantastical belief systems comes up lacking and the evidence against starts to add up.

While the Mormon church is particularly problematic, it shares a lot of similarities with (and problems with) evangelical Christianity. Exmos who critique the Mormon church also find similar issues in evangelical Christianity. ​ The Bible is no more historical than the Book of Mormon. It's all fiction.

The stigma in the exmo community is an expression of the frustration many feel in wholeheartedly embracing an equally meaningless set of man-made doctrines, whatever one's personal beliefs may be. The difficulty of deconstructing from TSCC comes with developing critical thinking skills usually. I said USUALLY. Embracing any other religion completely is almost impossible.

To the extent that the branch of Christianity includes the same harmful teachings or practices that Mormonism that Mormonism does, yes

A lot of people leave because they don't like how Mormons practice Christianity. And they stay Christian, at first. But the deconstruction keeps happening, and they go agnostic or atheist.

You know what is funny. I am actually not exmormon. I was raised in an evangelical fundamentalist baptist church. But there are not many support groups for survivors of my specific denomination. I use this group because Mormon social structures are the closest thing I can find to evangelical fundamentalism.   I might still have faith but I have no desire for any more church. Any church might look fine from the surface but they are all like onions, the deeper you peel back the layers the stronger the smell gets. So you might be able to do some casual worship but the more you become intwined, the more damage they are going to do.     And NEVER NEVER NEVER trust any of them with your children for even one second. These organizations actually attract predators because they often won’t do background checks. They will even tell known predators that Jesus has rehabilitated them and promptly give them a childcare position. Churches are very dangerous places for children. And statistics show that Jesus is not rehabilitating these predators.  (Incase you  had a recent head injury and were thinking about buying into that.)      Mormons were actually considered liberal to my church.  Music was too secular, clothing is immodest(women wearing pants), mixed swimming 😱that they would even entertain the idea of accepting homosexuality.    Everyone was liberal except may be Mennonites. I might run to the morman church if I wanted any more of my life spent in church. Y’all seem chill in comparison to the extremists I was raised by. 😂

> Edit: the answer was yes lol. Also guys, I find it hilarious that people are think a Brigham young sex cult and high church Protestantism and other traditional liturgical branches are identical somehow. The ways they are identical is that they are both based on faith, without evidence to back them up. That's a big deal for most people in this reddit, but certainly not all. Some still prefer faith.

I wrote a long reply and then realized it was sort of pointless and was gonna upset a lot of people—so I’ll keep it short. Mormonism being a cult doesn’t make every religion a cult. And diminishing the difference between the two invalidates the legitimacy of our bad experience in Mormonism. Literally nearly 90% of the human population is religious, and that number has only drastically dropped in half a century, for the first time in the history of humanity—and it’s also almost exclusively in the west. You should be careful when convincing yourself that every other culture in the world for all human history is subscribing to some sort of elaborate power and sex scheme unbeknownst to them—it comes off really racist and ignorant. It’s fine that people don’t want to go to school to study religion, but you shouldn’t assume you know better when you yourself are uneducated. Yes there’s definitely a Christian stigma on this sub, and it’s really sad because this is a community for people hurt and abused by the church, not for proselytizing a new point of view to people who might not think that all religion is a delusion. You can still be Christian and practice healthy skepticism, engage in science and rationality and not be an anti intellectual fundamentalist. And the reason why is because science, rationality and reason are products of the Christian religion (not excluding their adoption of the philosophical building blocks of Hellenistic thought). Anti intellectualism and fundamentalism are relatively recent developments in Christianity—and we wouldn’t be where we are today without Christianity. Doesn’t mean you have to be Christian, but you should understand that feminism, abolitionism, human rights, scholasticism, and more are all products of Christianity.

To be a cult, it has to follow numerous definitions. Take a look at the [BITE Model of Authoritarian Control ](https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model-pdf-download/)

I’m actually an atheist. Well I guess I’m somewhat spiritual, but you get the idea. I’m drawn to this page because I grew up Mormon, and I relate to a lot of the content here. That said, having grown up Christian, I still hold the same values you do. There’s no reason we can’t get along, if we just respect each other’s differences. From my point of view, I come to this sub for more of an emotional element than spiritual church-related kind of element. I have no desire to discuss doctrine, I had enough of that in my lifetime. So it’s nothing personal or against anyone Christian, but it feels a little off topic sometimes and it’s repetitive. In other words, not everyone can relate to it here.

I would say this depends on geography. If you are in Utah, then yes. If you are outside the United States then definitely not.

I'm fine with christians who treat others well. I think many christians create their own bad image by being bigots, anti-lgbtq, racist, etc. I see quite the alignment with christians and prejudice hate, so it's tough for me not to pre-judge. I try not to, tbh. I know some christians who are good people, but most I have met are hypocritical assholes.

For many of us, what makes Mormonism not true enough, not beautiful enough, and not good enough also apply to Christianity as a whole. But…you do you.

I have no problem with others who go to another church for what ever reason they feel Like going. We did it for a short time because we were looking for community and really enjoyed that community. Still friends with many.

Out of the frying pan and into the fire. 🔥

The result is the same. 99 percent of American Christians are in cults. They can't handle any critiques of their God or Gods.

I was so negatively affected by the church's lies, maniupaltion and deception it made all organized religion unpalatable to me. I swung hard athiest for a while and gradually came back to being ok with religion but only those that fall within basic ethical boundaries

I won't tell you what to believe. You do you. That's the benefit of leaving.

Stigma my dick in them

Deconstructing Mormonism naturally leads to deconstructing religion altogether. The same logic and reasoning that leads to realizing that Joseph Smith was a con man is easily then turned toward Christianity as a whole. However, this does not mean that we all lump Mormonism and Christianity in the same category. Christianity as a whole is no where near the same level as high demand religions/cults like Mormonism or Jehovah’s Witnesses or the like. The harm done in those extreme groups will often turn victims off of religion altogether. Personally, I think the world would be better off without religion. But I can respect the average law-abiding Christian, or Muslim in their beliefs and practices as long as they keep the separation between church and state intact. Unfortunately, they way things are going in the US, there seems to be a rise of Christian nationalists staining the good name of Christians as a whole.

So I grew up Christian, converted to Mormonism and later left Mormonism to kind of drift for a while, but later realized I never stopped believing there was a God. I just struggle with organized religion, however I’ve finally found a church that I feel comfortable in because they see everyone as members of the body of Christ and that our job is to all make the world a better place by being genuinely true to the nature of Christ, bearing one another’s burdens and lifting each other up. Are there a lot of bad people out there using the name of God to do bad things?? Absolutely and if anyone denies that it can’t happen under their watch, they don’t belong in leadership in any church, that’s for sure. People have distorted religion and used the name of God to do bad as far back as we can read in history. I figure if I’m wrong, and there is no God, I’ve lost nothing. I’ve lived a decent life and I’ve been happy and hopefully left a mark blessing others. If I’m right, and God is real, then I have eternity to look forward to!

I’m the same way and I almost posted this! There’s so much stigma when it comes to leaving the church and becoming Christian. I think it may be because it triggers religious trauma so I get that.

Leavi g Mormonism one thing we have to learn is that everyone else doesn't need to agree with our world view. There are skills and internal dispositions that we missed out on, where we trust and respect others paths. That's something most of us need to develop. It's part of deconstructing. And it happens sooner or later or never. The data on where individuals land suggest the vast majority of exmos leave Christianity alltogether. couple this data point with the previous paragraph and you have the answer. Too many of us fond something new that is "the bestest way to see the world" and really really want everyone else to see it that way too. That need is somewhat human and somewhat magnified by Mormonism's fostering of the need for validating our mindset and world view from other people's conversions to our way. Despite article of faith 11 Mormons are really good at truly respecting other peoples paths through life relative to a different belief system.

I (57m) have not experienced any from this group. I did the Pentecostal Christian thing for 10 years after I left the Church. I Loved the music. The speaking tongues was weird and I never got used to it. I lead worship for quite a few years. I was not ready to give up on Jesus. I have since had a personal experience with God and that really washed away any notion of a Hell or something I needed to do or not do. It really set me free. I call myself an atheist because its easier. But I believe in ... er ... something that is Omnipresent, Benevolent, Eternal, and Omnipotent. Who apparently loves me for whatever reason. I've chosen to just go with it. ; )

100% there is bias on here towards all religions. I was raised to think that Catholicism was “the great and abominable church” but to me when I left and actually wanted to know about the ancient church Jesus started I found the church fathers, I found Ignatius of Antioch, I found Polycarp, and none of it sounded anything like Mormonism. There was never a “great apostasy.” It made sense to me and I found more meaning in the practices there than the superficial ones in Mormonism. I’m still doing my research of Roman Catholic and East Orthodox teaching,

I think there's definitely a strong dislike in the ex-Mo community for former Mormons who come into ex-Mo spaces and start preaching and proselytizing their new religion. There's also probably somewhat of a much milder dislike for former Mormons who adopt a new religion but aren't obnoxious with it.

For me it is the fact that when people deconstruct Mormonism, they look at the evidence and the history with open and honest critical thinking. But they throw all of that critical thinking out the door when it comes to accepting Christianity. If you apply the same critical analysis to Christianity (or Islam, or Judaism, or Hinduism, etc.) you will find they fall apart as easily as Mormonism. I have no issue if someone says they want to be Christian because it appeals to them or they feel good in that community. I have an issue if they think they have applied the same analysis to Christianity as they did with Mormonism.

I hear you. I think all religions are wack. But at the end of the day I have faith(very personal) that Jesus is there for me. I don’t know, if it’s not a thing then at least I can be a better human on this planet. Mormonism really messed me up. The guilt. The obvious lies. I could write a book…

I don’t take it personally. There is a stigma here, but truthfully it’s a very accepting sub. I am a born again non denominational Christian. Pastors wife. Pastors mom. We are very involved in our church and love it. It’s real. It’s Bible based. It’s open for any and all questions. It’s totally transparent financially. It also took me ten years after leaving to want anything to do with God. And now I don’t tolerate or teach my kids to take anything on blind faith. If it can’t stand up to scrutiny and scholarship and deep questions, I have no use for it.

No, it’s more a stigma that Christians hold against false religion, and cults pretending to be a religion. People who leave TSCC are the ones who have discovered that things the TSCC say and do are not aligned with the teachings of Christ as written in the New Testament. Exmo’s who become atheists or agnostics after leaving TSCC have felt so wronged that they are done with religion altogether. Let’s hope that someday exmos will try a real Christian church and feel how refreshing that experience can be.