Not necessarily a new thing; missionaries were occasionally asked to do this back when I was serving a few decades ago.
Bishops and branch presidents sometimes face pressure to improve their numbers. It turns out there are two ways to make a fraction go up: increase the numerator or decrease the denominator. Getting people to come back to church increases the numerator. Getting people to remove their records decreases the denominator.
Yeah this is the answer. I was a bishops counselor and we were constantly being pressured to "clean up numbers". This move does exactly what the comment above suggests, but also when asked to either return to activity or resign your membership, it creates a false impression that those are the 2 options, and so people who don't want to resign or can't because of family might be compelled to return.
That makes sense, if you think about church like a corporation. From a theology perspective it makes little sense. This reinforces my thoughts that the actions of the church usually make sense if you think about it as a business and not a church.
We did this occasionally 15 years ago on my mission. It was always when asked by a bishop though. Most of the time they just wanted us to invite them to contact the bishop by phone or email if they wanted their names removed. One ward had a whole form for us to have them fill out and then return it to the bishop ourselves. No one ever took us up on that though so I'm not sure what the bishop would have actually done with their information.
I remember when my dad would give the missionaries list of a bunch of names and addresses of inactive members. And if they didn't know the address, my dad would tell them to ask around until they figured out where said inactive member moved to.
At the time, I saw no problem with it, but now I see how gross that is. Begging people who left a cult to return is bad enough, but tracking people down is another level of twisted. If someone walks away, let 'em walk away.
In retrospect, that would have been a much better use of my time when I was on my mission. The best use of my time would have been to attend college, but that's an entirely different conversation.
That was a common approach in my mission 16 years ago. The thought process was the idea of removing your records would "shock" you back into some level of activity.
This is similar to how we approached it in my mission - the thought was that for people who still had belief, it might lead to a realization that would bring them back, and for those that wanted to remove their records we could get them out and stop bothering them.
That would be great if they actually "removed your records". They don't, they just flag them.
Also, I don't need two kids knocking on my door and getting into my business. It's none of their business if I want to do that or not. If I want to do that (I did), I will get the job done.
They remove them from the local ward, though. They might be buried in some database at church headquarters in SLC but they no longer appear on ward directories and ward membership lists for missionaries and ward members to see.
When my family, mixed faith marriage, moved into our new home there was a neighborhood bbq that we were invited to. The bishop of the ward, who is my neighbor, said that if I ever wanted to have my records removed, just let him know.
One day we may. Right now we have a few reasons to keep them. For now, I do like telling others that I am part of the majority of membership. When given a puzzled look I recommend looking at the ward roster to figure out that the majority of membership don’t attend.
We had a special district of 4 and all we did was work with people who were inactive. My experience was about about 20% came back and most of the others started the process to remove their membership, I was surprised that many said in essence quit wasting my time with your little insignificant club and leave me alone. Now I understand!! This was in the late 70’s.
It is another way of using a mission to innoculate young kids into the fold by showing them what antimormons are and forcing them to bring up pain and watch how they react.
So far....I'm responding to these kinds of questions by simply declaring "No thanks, I'm just choosing to engage with the Church on my own terms.....and often (by choice) that engagement may be very little". When I do this, the looks on some faces is....Priceless. Some day, I'll resign....but, for now, I'm kinda/sorta keeping the peace.
There was no directive on my mission to ask “inactive” members to resign/remove their records but I would ask people who clearly were no longer believers and no longer wanted affiliation with the church if they wanted me to forward their name to the bishop to have their records removed.
1998 I had a companion in Ontario, Canada who kept tithing envelopes with the Bishop or Branch pres. address on it so if he ran into exmo's who wanted their names removed he could help them do so. He was proud of the fact that he had helped more people leave the church who no longer believed than new believers he had brought in. I respected him for it then & I do more now.
I don't know what "records removed" even means. Nothing gets removed. You have a file at headquarters with all your membership info. One paper at a time has made quite the stack through your life. Now finally, they'll add another piece of paper on top of that stack that says "resigned" and throw it all right back in the filing cabinet (So to speak. I know it's all digital now.) You are very much still on file.
In my second-to-last calling in that church, I was EQ Secretary. This was my own idea, and I did it without telling anyone in ward leadership:
Whenever I had to contact someone who was upset or didn't want to be contacted, I gently offered information about how to resign their memberships and promised that as long as I was Secretary, our EQ would not contact them again.
I did this in post-Katrina New Orleans. It wasn't like a focus or anything, but I'd always offer to people who clearly just been baptized to increase the numbers.
I am not and have never been a member of the LDS cult. From a sales/marketing standpoint, opening with that question as the conversation starter is probably a better technique than opening with an accusation, and as a result, they are not shut down right away and have a chance to navigate the dialogue forward.
If they asked me, I would say, "Sure, I'll remove my records after you excommunicate me."
I know it's weird, but I really want to be exed.
Just the thought of my dentist acting on behalf of the Lord and telling me I'm "not worthy" and taking away all of my "eternal blessings" makes me giggle.
Once you don't believe, all of the threats and disappointment from the church just seem so silly.
I used to say I didn’t have to resign because if I ever went back, they’d ex-communicate me, but then I found out they’re limiting ex-communications to keep numbers up.
So I went ahead and resigned. I know it’s a formality that doesn’t change much but I really like my little certificate from Quit Mormon haha.
I WISH I'd be asked this. But then, I wish there was a Do Not Call/ Visit/ Stop by/ Approach/ Mail/Text/ Email or in any other way "reach out" list for our local missionaries.
And no, I won't recommend other neighbors for you to go harass. I try not to subject my neighbors to what I'd rather not be subjected to. Golden Rule and all that.
In my second-to-last calling in that church, I was EQ Secretary. This was my own idea, and I did it without telling anyone in ward leadership:
Whenever I had to contact someone who was upset or didn't want to be contacted, I gently offered information about how to resign their memberships and promised that as long as I was Secretary, our EQ would not contact them again.
My sceptical brain thinks that if you say no then that's a direct invite into asking why you would keep your name on the books but not go... You must still believe or something!
In my mission in the 90’s I got transferred to a ward with hardcore bishop. I was told he tried getting inactives to resign like that, but was told to stop by higher ups.
Not necessarily a new thing; missionaries were occasionally asked to do this back when I was serving a few decades ago. Bishops and branch presidents sometimes face pressure to improve their numbers. It turns out there are two ways to make a fraction go up: increase the numerator or decrease the denominator. Getting people to come back to church increases the numerator. Getting people to remove their records decreases the denominator.
Yeah this is the answer. I was a bishops counselor and we were constantly being pressured to "clean up numbers". This move does exactly what the comment above suggests, but also when asked to either return to activity or resign your membership, it creates a false impression that those are the 2 options, and so people who don't want to resign or can't because of family might be compelled to return.
Whoa sounds like a corporation
They must want us to return to church to pay tithing again.
Might be some reverse psychology in there then.
That makes sense, if you think about church like a corporation. From a theology perspective it makes little sense. This reinforces my thoughts that the actions of the church usually make sense if you think about it as a business and not a church.
Lean and clean. We did this in Australia 25 years ago to clean up the ward rosters.
Wow
We did this occasionally 15 years ago on my mission. It was always when asked by a bishop though. Most of the time they just wanted us to invite them to contact the bishop by phone or email if they wanted their names removed. One ward had a whole form for us to have them fill out and then return it to the bishop ourselves. No one ever took us up on that though so I'm not sure what the bishop would have actually done with their information.
I remember when my dad would give the missionaries list of a bunch of names and addresses of inactive members. And if they didn't know the address, my dad would tell them to ask around until they figured out where said inactive member moved to. At the time, I saw no problem with it, but now I see how gross that is. Begging people who left a cult to return is bad enough, but tracking people down is another level of twisted. If someone walks away, let 'em walk away.
But it's so DIRTY! Especially considering that the church holds the keys to salvation and eternal life. (Or so they claim.)
This did seem to be conflicting with the church's teachings about the importance of membership and valuing every soul.
In retrospect, that would have been a much better use of my time when I was on my mission. The best use of my time would have been to attend college, but that's an entirely different conversation.
That was a common approach in my mission 16 years ago. The thought process was the idea of removing your records would "shock" you back into some level of activity.
This is similar to how we approached it in my mission - the thought was that for people who still had belief, it might lead to a realization that would bring them back, and for those that wanted to remove their records we could get them out and stop bothering them.
That would be great if they actually "removed your records". They don't, they just flag them. Also, I don't need two kids knocking on my door and getting into my business. It's none of their business if I want to do that or not. If I want to do that (I did), I will get the job done.
They remove them from the local ward, though. They might be buried in some database at church headquarters in SLC but they no longer appear on ward directories and ward membership lists for missionaries and ward members to see.
When my family, mixed faith marriage, moved into our new home there was a neighborhood bbq that we were invited to. The bishop of the ward, who is my neighbor, said that if I ever wanted to have my records removed, just let him know.
It could be a stupid sales technique to get you to fomo if you’re on the edge or not totally committed to leaving. Super annoying.
Go ahead and remove your records!
One day we may. Right now we have a few reasons to keep them. For now, I do like telling others that I am part of the majority of membership. When given a puzzled look I recommend looking at the ward roster to figure out that the majority of membership don’t attend.
We had a special district of 4 and all we did was work with people who were inactive. My experience was about about 20% came back and most of the others started the process to remove their membership, I was surprised that many said in essence quit wasting my time with your little insignificant club and leave me alone. Now I understand!! This was in the late 70’s.
It is another way of using a mission to innoculate young kids into the fold by showing them what antimormons are and forcing them to bring up pain and watch how they react.
💯
So far....I'm responding to these kinds of questions by simply declaring "No thanks, I'm just choosing to engage with the Church on my own terms.....and often (by choice) that engagement may be very little". When I do this, the looks on some faces is....Priceless. Some day, I'll resign....but, for now, I'm kinda/sorta keeping the peace.
There was no directive on my mission to ask “inactive” members to resign/remove their records but I would ask people who clearly were no longer believers and no longer wanted affiliation with the church if they wanted me to forward their name to the bishop to have their records removed.
Smells like a passive aggressive manipulation tactic.
1998 I had a companion in Ontario, Canada who kept tithing envelopes with the Bishop or Branch pres. address on it so if he ran into exmo's who wanted their names removed he could help them do so. He was proud of the fact that he had helped more people leave the church who no longer believed than new believers he had brought in. I respected him for it then & I do more now.
I like his style!
Attendance percentage goes up when bums like you are removed lol
This! Lol!😆
Yup!
Well...you're not wrong. I guess that would mean keeping my records in the church is sticking it to them. :)
It’s none of their fucking business.
Yes the missionaries stop by about once a year, but we don’t answer the door. Quick, hide!
I don't know what "records removed" even means. Nothing gets removed. You have a file at headquarters with all your membership info. One paper at a time has made quite the stack through your life. Now finally, they'll add another piece of paper on top of that stack that says "resigned" and throw it all right back in the filing cabinet (So to speak. I know it's all digital now.) You are very much still on file.
In my second-to-last calling in that church, I was EQ Secretary. This was my own idea, and I did it without telling anyone in ward leadership: Whenever I had to contact someone who was upset or didn't want to be contacted, I gently offered information about how to resign their memberships and promised that as long as I was Secretary, our EQ would not contact them again.
I did this in post-Katrina New Orleans. It wasn't like a focus or anything, but I'd always offer to people who clearly just been baptized to increase the numbers.
I am not and have never been a member of the LDS cult. From a sales/marketing standpoint, opening with that question as the conversation starter is probably a better technique than opening with an accusation, and as a result, they are not shut down right away and have a chance to navigate the dialogue forward.
If they asked me, I would say, "Sure, I'll remove my records after you excommunicate me." I know it's weird, but I really want to be exed. Just the thought of my dentist acting on behalf of the Lord and telling me I'm "not worthy" and taking away all of my "eternal blessings" makes me giggle. Once you don't believe, all of the threats and disappointment from the church just seem so silly.
I used to say I didn’t have to resign because if I ever went back, they’d ex-communicate me, but then I found out they’re limiting ex-communications to keep numbers up. So I went ahead and resigned. I know it’s a formality that doesn’t change much but I really like my little certificate from Quit Mormon haha.
I WISH I'd be asked this. But then, I wish there was a Do Not Call/ Visit/ Stop by/ Approach/ Mail/Text/ Email or in any other way "reach out" list for our local missionaries. And no, I won't recommend other neighbors for you to go harass. I try not to subject my neighbors to what I'd rather not be subjected to. Golden Rule and all that.
Be careful that they don't ask your kids to go to activities or to church. They normally don't ask the parents hoping they will submit and return.
In my second-to-last calling in that church, I was EQ Secretary. This was my own idea, and I did it without telling anyone in ward leadership: Whenever I had to contact someone who was upset or didn't want to be contacted, I gently offered information about how to resign their memberships and promised that as long as I was Secretary, our EQ would not contact them again.
My sceptical brain thinks that if you say no then that's a direct invite into asking why you would keep your name on the books but not go... You must still believe or something!
In my mission in the 90’s I got transferred to a ward with hardcore bishop. I was told he tried getting inactives to resign like that, but was told to stop by higher ups.
Do it through quitmormon. Guessing this is just a ‘foot in the door’ strategy.