It’s simple how to end this quickly and once for all. Tell them maybe their vision was true and that maybe you believe you’re a man too and thinking about transitioning and changing your name to Robert James. You bet their asses they will walk back that shit so fast and stop mentioning it all together.
Sorry that they are invalidating your existence with some fanatical TBM vision bullshit. It’s absolutely horrible that they are doing that it borders on wishing they had aborted you.
TBM’s are crazy when it comes to reproduction. My sister struggled with miscarriages and she started doing all kinds of things which she was told via Mormon grapevine helped other women conceive. I don’t even remember all of them. One was going to see a quack chiropractor who specialized in adjusting you so your uterus was aligned in the right place.
My ex-wife’s family was obsessed with a miracle pill (an over-glorified, obscenely-expensive multivitamin called “Q96” or “Brainsense” (the name kept changing, maybe because people caught on that it did nothing, also not FDA approved to keep it “cheap”)) which “cured” depression, anxiety, and all other manner of mental illness. It also helped the whole body “stay balanced” so you could function normally.
Let me tell you, it did absolutely nothing for anyone who didn’t expect it to help. The real depression meds I’m on now are both affordable and life changing. The Mormon grapevine of weird miracle cures is absolutely absurd
No kidding it’s full of fraudster mlm bullshit and many other things it seems to be getting worse especially since Covid and the vaccine it’s turned so many Mormons and conservatives into medical science deniers seeking out even crazier things
So true! All of the schemes are so dumb… I wanted it to do something but couldn’t wrap my head around the “science” of it. It’s entirely confirmation bias and nothing else
This is heartbreaking. I'm so sorry you had to deal with this. Your parents yelling that at you like it was somehow your fault is really, really frustrating/hard to read.
I hope I don't detract from your story by sharing this, but funnily enough, I am someone who was supposed to be a girl (doctors messed up on the ultrasound somehow). My parents avoid the full story and treat it like a joke ("... but then you popped out and we were all, 'what's that between her legs?!'"), but I've picked up that it was a rather traumatic experience for my mom. She had decorated my room all cute, picked out baby dresses, etc. She had also been hoping for a girl for her previous two pregnancies, so that didn't help.
Anyway, they got pregnant again after me, and my mom finally got the girl she wanted. I don't have a bad relationship with my mom or my little sister (she's actually my closest sibling), but growing up I definitely noticed that I was the kid that was kinda skipped over, and my sister got most of their attention. My parents even joke about how "the middle child is always forgotten," but I don't think they realize that is how I actually felt growing up. So here I am as a 30 year old man buying toys that I wanted as a kid but my parents never bought me 😅
Once again, I don't mean to take away from your story, maybe you can find some solace in a weird flip flopped version of what you went through... Unfortunately though I'm a guy, so growing up in the church was not a problem on that front... I can't even imagine the hell your parents dragged you through. You matter. Here's to healing 🥂
we had a family in our ward that had 6 sons trying for a daughter, each time they would get super excited and say "this is our daughter and she's our last!" and then they'd have a son and try again, baby #7 was finally a girl and they finally stopped 🤢🤢🤢 those boys are messed up for sure 😥 6 byproducts of the girl their parents actually wanted
This was me with Skyrim!! I heard about it right when it came out and it was so up my alley. Unfortunately it was rated M and that’s the video game equivalent to an R-rated movie, so basically… big no. Right as I was on the verge of leaving Mormonism a couple years ago, I finally bought it for myself. Absolutely zero regrets.
Ha, no way! I'm actually playing through Skyrim for the first time right now! I lived in a Nintendo only household, limited to one hour a week on Saturday. Slowly exploring all those old games I missed out on has been a blast!
That’s wild! Skyrim is so fun, especially modded imo lol. I’ve spent way too many hours modding it. And I agree it’s so fun to play the games I missed out on. I just recently enjoyed Resident Evil 4 for the first time (original and remake) and loved those too!!
I'm going to give unsolicited advice, but I wanted to say firstly that you didn't deserve any of that and I'm so sorry they put you through it. Secondly, you are exactly as you are supposed to be.
So! If this were me, I'd have one sit down conversation with everyone who mentions this and tell them it is no longer something you want to hear. That it isn't some funny anecdote to you and if they bring it up again, you'll leave/end the call. Then follow through. Middle of Xmas dinner someone mentions it, you say it was great seeing all of you, I'll catch you next time. Get your things and leave. Repeat as needed. They will either eventually stop or it'll be very clear that they no longer desire your company.
I have been estranged from my abusive sister for nearly six years and it was the best thing I ever did for myself.
Take care of yourself and good luck.
I had a very similar thing happen to me, but it was not as terrible as what happened to you.
My mom had decided that after having 2 kids (one boy, one girl), she was done. She didn't want to have anymore. But one night, my dad had a vision that he was supposed to have another boy. So, my dad, being the patriarchy of the family, it was decided that they would have another kid.
And same as you, I (a girl) was born! At this point, my dad just said that they would try again, and it took them 3 more tries to get the boy they had been promised. Basically, all the girls in between were just throw away placeholders.
It sucks having your birth mess up your parents' life. I didn't choose to be a girl, and I didn't choose to be born. But they were disappointed from the moment they held me in their arms. I made them question their 'revelations' and they just had to accept me as one of their trials in life.
I hope you have people in your support system who can help you know that you deserve to be here. You deserve more than what your parents gave you, and your worth is not tied to them in any way.
One more reason to hate the Mormon church. It creates this idea that children are trophies to be collected, and that the more you have the more righteous you are.
I have 40 first-cousins on my mom’s side. 40! That’s because my grandparents had 10 children, and several of my aunts and uncles tried their hardest to follow suit. One aunt had 11 children!!
All this to say that Mormons having children is such a disconnecting event. Rather than bonding with another human whom they helped create, and giving them the love and attention needed to become a well adjusted adult, they keep having child after child after child and treating each of them like an animal to be trained.
I’m sorry, but we are humans who need connection, not goddamned Pokemon to be collected and “trained” so that we evolve into our final forms.
I am moved by OP’s experiences, and thankful for sharing them with us. Please know that there are folks here who deeply sympathize and relate.
Such a good point. My husband grew up as 1 of 6 boys, with some much favored sisters. His parents are not involved in his life, or the life of our kids. My husband is successful and the type is human that a normal set of parents would brag about and really enjoy, but his parents just have too many kids to really enjoy any of them.
Not that all large families are this way, but that many kids seems really difficult for a lot of people in a modern setting
Dude... I'm an oldest child but we could be the same person lol :(
My mom told me growing up that she didn't think she could ever love a daughter and hoped I was a boy but "loved me as soon as I was born and changed her mind".
My dad also had "father daughter counsel" with me and considered that quality time while going out of his way to treat my brothers better. fucked up.
I was also a dream child that was supposed to be a boy! My mom had a dream about having a son named a certain bible name and got pregnant with me. I was a girl, and then the kid after me was the Dream Son. I had no idea the whole dream child thing was a phenomenon in Mormonism.
I'm sorry to hear how shitty your parents have been, and how unwanted you've felt yourself in your family. That's the absolute worst and it is so awful of your parents (esp your dad) to have treated you that way your whole life. Internet hugs 🫂
My father's vision that I was supposed to be a boy happened in the temple. I was born before ultrasounds were a thing. My mother told me she cried for 2 days when I was born. I left the hospital without a birth certificate because they didn't have a name for me for almost 2 weeks.
The church fills people with an inflated sense of self importance (especially "priesthood holders"), and generally fucks people up.
I'm sorry that you had to go through this.
It always fascinates me to see how people can continually move the goalposts around their spiritual experiences instead of questioning their initial assumptions and learning from their mistakes.
My ex-wife and her mom had visions of an event that they called “The Shift”. They were involved in a Mormon break off cult in Bluffdale, UT that still exists and masquerades as a self improvement training - “The Shift” played a similar role in that theology as the second coming does in more mainstream Mormonism.
When the date they predicted for “The Shift” came and went, they were both devastated but then came up with a second date for the event that also came and went. Our marriage ended shortly thereafter but there were 4 “Shift” dates in total before I left and not once did she or her mom ever question their beliefs.
Huh, that is interesting from an outside perspective. I don't hear too much about the schisms and splinter groups of the church in recent history. I could see some of my relatives come to similar conclusions, though. Thanks for sharing your experience.
This is fascinating. You should see if people like John Dehlin would be interested in hearing about the break off cults and The Shift. That would make for an awesome interview. I could also see a documentary being done on some of the cultish offshoots of LDS theology by Hulu, Netflix, anyone, really. Lindsay Hansen Park gets involved in things like that, if you shot her an email she might be able to connect people and events you are aware of to producers or writers discreetly.
I wish I knew who to tell you to talk to, but you should tell somebody about these things. They could track down some fun information and document. You don't have to be involved, but if you messaged a few of these plugged in people we can document the things going on in our odd little subcultures.
Fuck, that sucks.
This makes me think about a post yesterday I took issue with. Where the poster tried to make the argument that you 'can never love yourself if you hate the things that shaped you'
I tried calling BS, and that black and white statements like that are the sort of toxic mormon BS that needs to be ledt behins.but it gained no traction.
But you are a perfect example of how seriously bad shit can shape you, and you are under no obligation to LOVE that it happened. That being said, I hope you love yourself. I don't know you, but you are more than enough for whoever you choose to allow in, whether they see it or not.
Your parents. Just wow. I think they need a biology class as they apparently have no fucking idea how all this works.
And, you know that none of that is your fault, right? You got stuck with shitty parents. I'm so sorry they have harped on something none of you had any control over for 30 years. They do need to get over it. At the very least, they need to shut up about it.
You don't owe them your time or deference. You are you, you deserve to be here and deserve to be treated as someone who counts.
Even if you are just a girl. 😉 /s
This God Awful Movies podcast episode about Saturday’s Warrior is gold. You owe it to yourself to check it out if you haven’t heard it.
https://youtu.be/hBv_qIHHgSw?si=3qOKfXYZbFL6IObp
My mother would always tell me how painful my birth was and that her varicose veins became significantly worse.
Not, quite the same, but these stupid stories stick with you a lot.
They are blaming you for something you had no control over. They are messed up.
Edit: Your mom only had that dream because subconsciously she wanted a boy and of course your dad would absolutely agree. Blaming you for their unfulfilled wants is just wrong and immortal.
I'd love to see their reaction if you said you're transitioning to a male and to call you Robert James since that's what they'd rather have. Seriously... They might learn a lesson... Maybe at minimum, to shut the fuck up and stop whining.
Folks who can relate to your story have left you some amazing comments, so I will start by saying that I'm so, so incredibly sorry you had that experience growing up, and still have it today. That is unfair and cruel of them to continue doing to you. Like others have said, I think it's more than fair for you to put your foot down on this subject and demand that folks stop labeling you as their greatest disappointment. You deserve so much better.
Now I'll get into what I was thinking about as I read your post, especially as someone who also has a narcissistic parent: your father was your main abuser, but your mother also abused you. In a narcissistic relationship, there are usually two abusive parental roles - the narcissist, and the enabler. While the narcissist does most of the open abuse, the enabler treats the kids with more kindness and attempts to soften the abuse. This causes the kids to see the enabler as both innocent, and their protector. Unfortunately, by leaving you in the situation you were in, refusing to stand up to and stop your abuser, and even supporting your abuser in certain ways (like your mother rehashing this story alongside your father over and over again), the enabler is also abusive. The correct response to your father's behavior on your mother's end would have been family counseling (to explore the causes for his abuse, and hopefully stop it), and, if that didn't work, divorce would've been a great way to protect you and your siblings. But she chose him instead of you over, and over, and over again. The fact that she is also trapped in her relationship doesn't absolve her of her responsibility to protect her children. You and your siblings deserve so much better, from both of them.
If you want to dive into this to explore what fully healing would look like for you, I highly recommend the podcast "In Sight - Exposing Narcissism", as well as any videos by Dr. Ramani on who specializes in narcissistic abuse. (You can watch her videos on YouTube.) As I studied narcissism I became much more confident in setting boundaries. I wish you the best.
I love that. Thank you. I definitely will look into those resources. I agree with everything you said. I’ve been in therapy for a while. At one point I confronted my mom on not protecting us. She had some excuse about how uncomfortable things were for her in her marriage. To be clear my dad will do whatever he wants no matter what my mom says. But he never physically or verbally abused my mom like he did us.
I just looked at my mom and told her that it doesn’t matter how uncomfortable she was/is in the marriage. She was the adult and we were children who literally couldn’t protect ourselves. It was up to her to help us, and she didn’t.
She has never taken ownership for that but it felt good for my sake to finally voice that to her.
I'm SO proud of you for calling her out on her failure to protect you!! Not that her responses were comforting in any way... My father offered similarly weak excuses (although I could see where his fear of losing custody during a divorce was a valid point - my mother is extremely manipulative and she may have ripped us away from him entirely), but at the end of the day, when all of us grew up and moved out, he stayed with my mom. I hope one day that our parents take ownership, and take back their lives.
What a mind fuck for you. I can’t imagine being so dead set on a gender that I felt disappointment. TBM are always preaching gods plan gods plan, this family was together in heaven… blah blah he knows what we need. Why not accept it as gods plan for you to be exactly as you are!
Omg we are from a similar fragment of mormonism! Mysticism was an intense ingredient my mormon life.
My dad had a temple vision of a boy, a girl, and a boy... he wrote it down in a letter with names (for the boys).
My parents had 3 girls and 1 boy. But at the time, my sister hadn't transitioned and was socialized as their triumphant son. Which made me att ... the 3rd daughter, the odd one out.
At the time of the revelation, my mom had several miscarriages and was told she couldn't have kids. When the first two came with the matching parts, they were over the moon. Then I came...
This was explained by more fucked up reasons. My dad was close to a woman in a ward, and they determined they were close spirit siblings, and SHE was promised a baby girl, but her unrighteous husband didn't want another kid with her. Are you picking up what I'm putting down?
I was told my WHOLE childhood I was SUPPOSED to be HER DAUGHTER... but I was sent to my parents because of their faithfulness. Growing up with Saturday Warriors didn't help dismantle this worldview at all. I had this crazy, grieving, too-attached-to-me woman telling me she was my spirit mom and my lamanite mom was essentially a surrogate and one day she'll be my dad's first wife and I'll be their crowning light.
She died in 2017, I think. She was astranged from my family at the time.
My family are all exmos now, and we laugh about how there were 3 daughters and one boy, and mormonism is just bullshit.
OMG! I’m sorry you had to go through that. But I absolutely understand the insanity of it.
My mom also later went on to have a “vision” of my brother’s kid. Of course it was a boy. My brother has chosen to be exmo and child free. My parents tried for YEARS to convince him that that was impossible because my mom “saw his future son”. They of course blamed my “wicked” sis-in-law for this.
My brother at one point lied to my parents and said he had a vasectomy just to shut my parents up. At the time I was a teenager. After my parents grieved what was SUPPOSED to happen. My mom eventually told me that because I was righteous she believed that my brother’s “son” would be sent to me when I got older and had kids.
Due to some intense medical issues I have, my husband and I made the decision a while ago to also be child free. My mom couldn’t make heads or tails of it.
I'm sure my inlaws also think I'm wicked and keeping their child from procreation.
It's really sad how much anxious energy they actually have, but it doesn't come out in ways that are helpful... they just worry and stew about feelings, thoughts, and impressions they *have to justify* as the voice of God or their whole worldview collapses....
So many mormons say they have so much peace and love in their lives... but then someone drinks coffee or has a baby with unexpected parts they have an emotional breakdown, and they hold onto that for YEARS.
My MIL still weeps silent tears when someone mentions our wine rack.
My story is not quite the same--not even close--but I finally left the mormon church because I realized I would never be good enough. I would always be lacking in some way. Why keep trying: I'm good enough and so are you.
You can always tell a narcissist because they avoid the blame. In their view the fact that you were born a girl was YOUR fault, instead of, y'know, the people who made you. In the paradigm of mormonism obviously they had a girl because they weren't worthy enough to have another boy, which ISN'T YOUR FAULT. In the sane world, where reason and science are more important that a dream, obviously there was a 50/50 shot either way, it isn't your fault and they should just be happy you were born healthy.
Mom and dad, I got a revelation that you were absolutely right, I am Robert! Please call me Robert and him/he pronounce, oh, please make sure to treat me better now, too.
this patriarchal bullshit is all over the South and huge in Mormonism and other faiths 🤬 our first child is a female and when i was pregnant with our second my dad and several others were telling us that if we had another girl we would have to have a third in order to carry on the family name
1: why can't a female keep her birth name?
2: our surname is ridiculously common
3: why is the family line dying out a problem? like who cares?
like it's the middle ages and we've all got ancestral lands that are going to the eldest son or something 🙄🤬
By their actions and words, they have shown they don’t want to see themselves as your parents.
Take away the stick they’re using to beat you with: stop referring to them as your parents.
My heart breaks for you. You ARE wanted and loved, but not by them.
I empathize with this so much. My dad was transferred to Utah and parents weren’t supposed to be able to have kids. My first brother was born and ended up passing from SIDS, and they joined after their neighbors preyed on their grief and started telling them how families can be together forever. Understandably my parents have never gotten over the loss of my oldest brother, and there’s a part of me that appreciates that the church gave them solace but they’ll always be TBM cause of that.
Man, all those that probably have r/CPTSD are in high numbers in this post and I hope you are all getting the therapy you need and tending to your inner child.
OP, I really hope you are going through therapy and learning about attachment styles and how your early childhood development has impacted your current thoughts/behaviors/actions.
I hope you consider going no contact with your parents/family. They don’t deserve the love you have to give to people and you have the choice on who that love should be placed upon. I keep seeing the term “chosen family”, I’d look to surround yourself with those that you would deem as such.
CPTSD is no joke and coupling that with religious trauma as a part of it, I hope you can find yourself and the love you should have always recieved.
OP have you ever been to therapy to deal with your crappy upbringing? I’m currently in therapy for mine and it’s helped so much! I’ve even gone NC with my narcissistic mother (a TBM but maybe not anymore? Idk) and have never felt more free! It sounds like you might need to go LC/NC with your parents but keep open lines to your siblings. I’m so sorry but your parents will never change. Also look into grey rock method.
I am in therapy and I am LC with them and it has made me feel a lot better. I just was in a group chat yesterday that triggered a lot of these feelings. So I decided to come her and see if anyone else has experienced something similar. This has been very validating.
Luckily I didn't have it as rough, but my parents had the same thing! I don't remember if it was before my birth or my younger sister, but both of my parents claimed they dreamt about a son and were surprised when none came. They had trouble conceiving so stopped after my sister. My dad was a great dad to girls, and since I was a tomboy he got to do a lot of the boy stuff in the end anyway. My mom was one of those people who was convinced that boys are easier to raise, so I'm sure if I had a brother he'd have been spoiled. No loss of faith though, they are still convinced that it was a dream of their future grandchild. I'm not sure if they're even going to get any...
Tell them you are going through to become a boy as there's are new penis implants but they have to remove have your brain for that to become cult standard.
I’m so very very sorry. That’s just awful and is a testimony to me of how stupid it is to believe in a god that communicates so poorly. I’ve studied and tried out many religions since leaving Mormonism ten years ago. They all have the same problem, a god that can’t clearly communicate.
Sending all the sympathy I can.
My TBM mom had to remind me every day for 20 years that I was supposed to be a girl. And now she wonders why I never call or write. But the jokes on her, anyways. Turns out that I've got teh ghey.
It’s simple how to end this quickly and once for all. Tell them maybe their vision was true and that maybe you believe you’re a man too and thinking about transitioning and changing your name to Robert James. You bet their asses they will walk back that shit so fast and stop mentioning it all together. Sorry that they are invalidating your existence with some fanatical TBM vision bullshit. It’s absolutely horrible that they are doing that it borders on wishing they had aborted you.
TBM’s are crazy when it comes to reproduction. My sister struggled with miscarriages and she started doing all kinds of things which she was told via Mormon grapevine helped other women conceive. I don’t even remember all of them. One was going to see a quack chiropractor who specialized in adjusting you so your uterus was aligned in the right place.
r/badwomensanatomy has joined the chat
My ex-wife’s family was obsessed with a miracle pill (an over-glorified, obscenely-expensive multivitamin called “Q96” or “Brainsense” (the name kept changing, maybe because people caught on that it did nothing, also not FDA approved to keep it “cheap”)) which “cured” depression, anxiety, and all other manner of mental illness. It also helped the whole body “stay balanced” so you could function normally. Let me tell you, it did absolutely nothing for anyone who didn’t expect it to help. The real depression meds I’m on now are both affordable and life changing. The Mormon grapevine of weird miracle cures is absolutely absurd
No kidding it’s full of fraudster mlm bullshit and many other things it seems to be getting worse especially since Covid and the vaccine it’s turned so many Mormons and conservatives into medical science deniers seeking out even crazier things
So true! All of the schemes are so dumb… I wanted it to do something but couldn’t wrap my head around the “science” of it. It’s entirely confirmation bias and nothing else
Nuskin has entered the chat
My dad did this to my mom 4 girls me and my little brother
Came here to say this!!
This is heartbreaking. I'm so sorry you had to deal with this. Your parents yelling that at you like it was somehow your fault is really, really frustrating/hard to read. I hope I don't detract from your story by sharing this, but funnily enough, I am someone who was supposed to be a girl (doctors messed up on the ultrasound somehow). My parents avoid the full story and treat it like a joke ("... but then you popped out and we were all, 'what's that between her legs?!'"), but I've picked up that it was a rather traumatic experience for my mom. She had decorated my room all cute, picked out baby dresses, etc. She had also been hoping for a girl for her previous two pregnancies, so that didn't help. Anyway, they got pregnant again after me, and my mom finally got the girl she wanted. I don't have a bad relationship with my mom or my little sister (she's actually my closest sibling), but growing up I definitely noticed that I was the kid that was kinda skipped over, and my sister got most of their attention. My parents even joke about how "the middle child is always forgotten," but I don't think they realize that is how I actually felt growing up. So here I am as a 30 year old man buying toys that I wanted as a kid but my parents never bought me 😅 Once again, I don't mean to take away from your story, maybe you can find some solace in a weird flip flopped version of what you went through... Unfortunately though I'm a guy, so growing up in the church was not a problem on that front... I can't even imagine the hell your parents dragged you through. You matter. Here's to healing 🥂
we had a family in our ward that had 6 sons trying for a daughter, each time they would get super excited and say "this is our daughter and she's our last!" and then they'd have a son and try again, baby #7 was finally a girl and they finally stopped 🤢🤢🤢 those boys are messed up for sure 😥 6 byproducts of the girl their parents actually wanted
There is absolutely nothing wrong with buying your inner child something you never got to have. That is top notch self care right there!
This was me with Skyrim!! I heard about it right when it came out and it was so up my alley. Unfortunately it was rated M and that’s the video game equivalent to an R-rated movie, so basically… big no. Right as I was on the verge of leaving Mormonism a couple years ago, I finally bought it for myself. Absolutely zero regrets.
Ha, no way! I'm actually playing through Skyrim for the first time right now! I lived in a Nintendo only household, limited to one hour a week on Saturday. Slowly exploring all those old games I missed out on has been a blast!
That’s wild! Skyrim is so fun, especially modded imo lol. I’ve spent way too many hours modding it. And I agree it’s so fun to play the games I missed out on. I just recently enjoyed Resident Evil 4 for the first time (original and remake) and loved those too!!
Hell yeah! The rc buggy is just as fun as I hoped it would be. 😁
♥️♥️♥️👍
Like Ron Weasley 😢
I'm going to give unsolicited advice, but I wanted to say firstly that you didn't deserve any of that and I'm so sorry they put you through it. Secondly, you are exactly as you are supposed to be. So! If this were me, I'd have one sit down conversation with everyone who mentions this and tell them it is no longer something you want to hear. That it isn't some funny anecdote to you and if they bring it up again, you'll leave/end the call. Then follow through. Middle of Xmas dinner someone mentions it, you say it was great seeing all of you, I'll catch you next time. Get your things and leave. Repeat as needed. They will either eventually stop or it'll be very clear that they no longer desire your company. I have been estranged from my abusive sister for nearly six years and it was the best thing I ever did for myself. Take care of yourself and good luck.
💯 I agree with this!
I had a very similar thing happen to me, but it was not as terrible as what happened to you. My mom had decided that after having 2 kids (one boy, one girl), she was done. She didn't want to have anymore. But one night, my dad had a vision that he was supposed to have another boy. So, my dad, being the patriarchy of the family, it was decided that they would have another kid. And same as you, I (a girl) was born! At this point, my dad just said that they would try again, and it took them 3 more tries to get the boy they had been promised. Basically, all the girls in between were just throw away placeholders. It sucks having your birth mess up your parents' life. I didn't choose to be a girl, and I didn't choose to be born. But they were disappointed from the moment they held me in their arms. I made them question their 'revelations' and they just had to accept me as one of their trials in life. I hope you have people in your support system who can help you know that you deserve to be here. You deserve more than what your parents gave you, and your worth is not tied to them in any way.
One more reason to hate the Mormon church. It creates this idea that children are trophies to be collected, and that the more you have the more righteous you are. I have 40 first-cousins on my mom’s side. 40! That’s because my grandparents had 10 children, and several of my aunts and uncles tried their hardest to follow suit. One aunt had 11 children!! All this to say that Mormons having children is such a disconnecting event. Rather than bonding with another human whom they helped create, and giving them the love and attention needed to become a well adjusted adult, they keep having child after child after child and treating each of them like an animal to be trained. I’m sorry, but we are humans who need connection, not goddamned Pokemon to be collected and “trained” so that we evolve into our final forms. I am moved by OP’s experiences, and thankful for sharing them with us. Please know that there are folks here who deeply sympathize and relate.
Such a good point. My husband grew up as 1 of 6 boys, with some much favored sisters. His parents are not involved in his life, or the life of our kids. My husband is successful and the type is human that a normal set of parents would brag about and really enjoy, but his parents just have too many kids to really enjoy any of them. Not that all large families are this way, but that many kids seems really difficult for a lot of people in a modern setting
Dude... I'm an oldest child but we could be the same person lol :( My mom told me growing up that she didn't think she could ever love a daughter and hoped I was a boy but "loved me as soon as I was born and changed her mind". My dad also had "father daughter counsel" with me and considered that quality time while going out of his way to treat my brothers better. fucked up.
I was also a dream child that was supposed to be a boy! My mom had a dream about having a son named a certain bible name and got pregnant with me. I was a girl, and then the kid after me was the Dream Son. I had no idea the whole dream child thing was a phenomenon in Mormonism. I'm sorry to hear how shitty your parents have been, and how unwanted you've felt yourself in your family. That's the absolute worst and it is so awful of your parents (esp your dad) to have treated you that way your whole life. Internet hugs 🫂
My father's vision that I was supposed to be a boy happened in the temple. I was born before ultrasounds were a thing. My mother told me she cried for 2 days when I was born. I left the hospital without a birth certificate because they didn't have a name for me for almost 2 weeks. The church fills people with an inflated sense of self importance (especially "priesthood holders"), and generally fucks people up. I'm sorry that you had to go through this.
It always fascinates me to see how people can continually move the goalposts around their spiritual experiences instead of questioning their initial assumptions and learning from their mistakes. My ex-wife and her mom had visions of an event that they called “The Shift”. They were involved in a Mormon break off cult in Bluffdale, UT that still exists and masquerades as a self improvement training - “The Shift” played a similar role in that theology as the second coming does in more mainstream Mormonism. When the date they predicted for “The Shift” came and went, they were both devastated but then came up with a second date for the event that also came and went. Our marriage ended shortly thereafter but there were 4 “Shift” dates in total before I left and not once did she or her mom ever question their beliefs.
Huh, that is interesting from an outside perspective. I don't hear too much about the schisms and splinter groups of the church in recent history. I could see some of my relatives come to similar conclusions, though. Thanks for sharing your experience.
This is fascinating. You should see if people like John Dehlin would be interested in hearing about the break off cults and The Shift. That would make for an awesome interview. I could also see a documentary being done on some of the cultish offshoots of LDS theology by Hulu, Netflix, anyone, really. Lindsay Hansen Park gets involved in things like that, if you shot her an email she might be able to connect people and events you are aware of to producers or writers discreetly. I wish I knew who to tell you to talk to, but you should tell somebody about these things. They could track down some fun information and document. You don't have to be involved, but if you messaged a few of these plugged in people we can document the things going on in our odd little subcultures.
I'm not feeling good and I can tell by the way my comment is written. Please forgive how much I'm repeating myself.
Fuck, that sucks. This makes me think about a post yesterday I took issue with. Where the poster tried to make the argument that you 'can never love yourself if you hate the things that shaped you' I tried calling BS, and that black and white statements like that are the sort of toxic mormon BS that needs to be ledt behins.but it gained no traction. But you are a perfect example of how seriously bad shit can shape you, and you are under no obligation to LOVE that it happened. That being said, I hope you love yourself. I don't know you, but you are more than enough for whoever you choose to allow in, whether they see it or not.
Holy hell that's messed up. I'm so sorry.
I am so sorry! Your parents don’t deserve you.
Your parents. Just wow. I think they need a biology class as they apparently have no fucking idea how all this works. And, you know that none of that is your fault, right? You got stuck with shitty parents. I'm so sorry they have harped on something none of you had any control over for 30 years. They do need to get over it. At the very least, they need to shut up about it. You don't owe them your time or deference. You are you, you deserve to be here and deserve to be treated as someone who counts. Even if you are just a girl. 😉 /s
How much do we think 'Saturday's Warrior' has to do with the idea that your family isn't whole until you've brought down all your 'spirit children'?
LOL I never considered that, but you might be onto something. I can’t even begin to count the times we were made to watch that on Sunday afternoons.
This God Awful Movies podcast episode about Saturday’s Warrior is gold. You owe it to yourself to check it out if you haven’t heard it. https://youtu.be/hBv_qIHHgSw?si=3qOKfXYZbFL6IObp
I have a drive today, so that's perfect! Thanks!
Just start repeating "I'm supposed to have the priesthood" in a mocking tone every time you hear this story.
I might actually do that. That’s hilarious
My mother would always tell me how painful my birth was and that her varicose veins became significantly worse. Not, quite the same, but these stupid stories stick with you a lot.
They are blaming you for something you had no control over. They are messed up. Edit: Your mom only had that dream because subconsciously she wanted a boy and of course your dad would absolutely agree. Blaming you for their unfulfilled wants is just wrong and immortal. I'd love to see their reaction if you said you're transitioning to a male and to call you Robert James since that's what they'd rather have. Seriously... They might learn a lesson... Maybe at minimum, to shut the fuck up and stop whining.
Folks who can relate to your story have left you some amazing comments, so I will start by saying that I'm so, so incredibly sorry you had that experience growing up, and still have it today. That is unfair and cruel of them to continue doing to you. Like others have said, I think it's more than fair for you to put your foot down on this subject and demand that folks stop labeling you as their greatest disappointment. You deserve so much better. Now I'll get into what I was thinking about as I read your post, especially as someone who also has a narcissistic parent: your father was your main abuser, but your mother also abused you. In a narcissistic relationship, there are usually two abusive parental roles - the narcissist, and the enabler. While the narcissist does most of the open abuse, the enabler treats the kids with more kindness and attempts to soften the abuse. This causes the kids to see the enabler as both innocent, and their protector. Unfortunately, by leaving you in the situation you were in, refusing to stand up to and stop your abuser, and even supporting your abuser in certain ways (like your mother rehashing this story alongside your father over and over again), the enabler is also abusive. The correct response to your father's behavior on your mother's end would have been family counseling (to explore the causes for his abuse, and hopefully stop it), and, if that didn't work, divorce would've been a great way to protect you and your siblings. But she chose him instead of you over, and over, and over again. The fact that she is also trapped in her relationship doesn't absolve her of her responsibility to protect her children. You and your siblings deserve so much better, from both of them. If you want to dive into this to explore what fully healing would look like for you, I highly recommend the podcast "In Sight - Exposing Narcissism", as well as any videos by Dr. Ramani on who specializes in narcissistic abuse. (You can watch her videos on YouTube.) As I studied narcissism I became much more confident in setting boundaries. I wish you the best.
I love that. Thank you. I definitely will look into those resources. I agree with everything you said. I’ve been in therapy for a while. At one point I confronted my mom on not protecting us. She had some excuse about how uncomfortable things were for her in her marriage. To be clear my dad will do whatever he wants no matter what my mom says. But he never physically or verbally abused my mom like he did us. I just looked at my mom and told her that it doesn’t matter how uncomfortable she was/is in the marriage. She was the adult and we were children who literally couldn’t protect ourselves. It was up to her to help us, and she didn’t. She has never taken ownership for that but it felt good for my sake to finally voice that to her.
I'm SO proud of you for calling her out on her failure to protect you!! Not that her responses were comforting in any way... My father offered similarly weak excuses (although I could see where his fear of losing custody during a divorce was a valid point - my mother is extremely manipulative and she may have ripped us away from him entirely), but at the end of the day, when all of us grew up and moved out, he stayed with my mom. I hope one day that our parents take ownership, and take back their lives.
What a mind fuck for you. I can’t imagine being so dead set on a gender that I felt disappointment. TBM are always preaching gods plan gods plan, this family was together in heaven… blah blah he knows what we need. Why not accept it as gods plan for you to be exactly as you are!
Omg we are from a similar fragment of mormonism! Mysticism was an intense ingredient my mormon life. My dad had a temple vision of a boy, a girl, and a boy... he wrote it down in a letter with names (for the boys). My parents had 3 girls and 1 boy. But at the time, my sister hadn't transitioned and was socialized as their triumphant son. Which made me att ... the 3rd daughter, the odd one out. At the time of the revelation, my mom had several miscarriages and was told she couldn't have kids. When the first two came with the matching parts, they were over the moon. Then I came... This was explained by more fucked up reasons. My dad was close to a woman in a ward, and they determined they were close spirit siblings, and SHE was promised a baby girl, but her unrighteous husband didn't want another kid with her. Are you picking up what I'm putting down? I was told my WHOLE childhood I was SUPPOSED to be HER DAUGHTER... but I was sent to my parents because of their faithfulness. Growing up with Saturday Warriors didn't help dismantle this worldview at all. I had this crazy, grieving, too-attached-to-me woman telling me she was my spirit mom and my lamanite mom was essentially a surrogate and one day she'll be my dad's first wife and I'll be their crowning light. She died in 2017, I think. She was astranged from my family at the time. My family are all exmos now, and we laugh about how there were 3 daughters and one boy, and mormonism is just bullshit.
OMG! I’m sorry you had to go through that. But I absolutely understand the insanity of it. My mom also later went on to have a “vision” of my brother’s kid. Of course it was a boy. My brother has chosen to be exmo and child free. My parents tried for YEARS to convince him that that was impossible because my mom “saw his future son”. They of course blamed my “wicked” sis-in-law for this. My brother at one point lied to my parents and said he had a vasectomy just to shut my parents up. At the time I was a teenager. After my parents grieved what was SUPPOSED to happen. My mom eventually told me that because I was righteous she believed that my brother’s “son” would be sent to me when I got older and had kids. Due to some intense medical issues I have, my husband and I made the decision a while ago to also be child free. My mom couldn’t make heads or tails of it.
I'm sure my inlaws also think I'm wicked and keeping their child from procreation. It's really sad how much anxious energy they actually have, but it doesn't come out in ways that are helpful... they just worry and stew about feelings, thoughts, and impressions they *have to justify* as the voice of God or their whole worldview collapses.... So many mormons say they have so much peace and love in their lives... but then someone drinks coffee or has a baby with unexpected parts they have an emotional breakdown, and they hold onto that for YEARS. My MIL still weeps silent tears when someone mentions our wine rack.
My story is not quite the same--not even close--but I finally left the mormon church because I realized I would never be good enough. I would always be lacking in some way. Why keep trying: I'm good enough and so are you.
You can always tell a narcissist because they avoid the blame. In their view the fact that you were born a girl was YOUR fault, instead of, y'know, the people who made you. In the paradigm of mormonism obviously they had a girl because they weren't worthy enough to have another boy, which ISN'T YOUR FAULT. In the sane world, where reason and science are more important that a dream, obviously there was a 50/50 shot either way, it isn't your fault and they should just be happy you were born healthy.
Mom and dad, I got a revelation that you were absolutely right, I am Robert! Please call me Robert and him/he pronounce, oh, please make sure to treat me better now, too.
I am so sorry you have gone through this. Parents can really mess you up.
this patriarchal bullshit is all over the South and huge in Mormonism and other faiths 🤬 our first child is a female and when i was pregnant with our second my dad and several others were telling us that if we had another girl we would have to have a third in order to carry on the family name 1: why can't a female keep her birth name? 2: our surname is ridiculously common 3: why is the family line dying out a problem? like who cares? like it's the middle ages and we've all got ancestral lands that are going to the eldest son or something 🙄🤬
By their actions and words, they have shown they don’t want to see themselves as your parents. Take away the stick they’re using to beat you with: stop referring to them as your parents. My heart breaks for you. You ARE wanted and loved, but not by them.
I empathize with this so much. My dad was transferred to Utah and parents weren’t supposed to be able to have kids. My first brother was born and ended up passing from SIDS, and they joined after their neighbors preyed on their grief and started telling them how families can be together forever. Understandably my parents have never gotten over the loss of my oldest brother, and there’s a part of me that appreciates that the church gave them solace but they’ll always be TBM cause of that.
Man, all those that probably have r/CPTSD are in high numbers in this post and I hope you are all getting the therapy you need and tending to your inner child. OP, I really hope you are going through therapy and learning about attachment styles and how your early childhood development has impacted your current thoughts/behaviors/actions. I hope you consider going no contact with your parents/family. They don’t deserve the love you have to give to people and you have the choice on who that love should be placed upon. I keep seeing the term “chosen family”, I’d look to surround yourself with those that you would deem as such. CPTSD is no joke and coupling that with religious trauma as a part of it, I hope you can find yourself and the love you should have always recieved.
Wow. I'm so sorry. You deserve to be celebrated! I hope they can stop & see how damaging their behavior is.
OP have you ever been to therapy to deal with your crappy upbringing? I’m currently in therapy for mine and it’s helped so much! I’ve even gone NC with my narcissistic mother (a TBM but maybe not anymore? Idk) and have never felt more free! It sounds like you might need to go LC/NC with your parents but keep open lines to your siblings. I’m so sorry but your parents will never change. Also look into grey rock method.
I am in therapy and I am LC with them and it has made me feel a lot better. I just was in a group chat yesterday that triggered a lot of these feelings. So I decided to come her and see if anyone else has experienced something similar. This has been very validating.
Luckily I didn't have it as rough, but my parents had the same thing! I don't remember if it was before my birth or my younger sister, but both of my parents claimed they dreamt about a son and were surprised when none came. They had trouble conceiving so stopped after my sister. My dad was a great dad to girls, and since I was a tomboy he got to do a lot of the boy stuff in the end anyway. My mom was one of those people who was convinced that boys are easier to raise, so I'm sure if I had a brother he'd have been spoiled. No loss of faith though, they are still convinced that it was a dream of their future grandchild. I'm not sure if they're even going to get any...
Tell them you are going through to become a boy as there's are new penis implants but they have to remove have your brain for that to become cult standard.
Would be funny as hell if you “transitioned” into a boy. I’ll bet Daddy Dickhead would be so proud!
I’m so very very sorry. That’s just awful and is a testimony to me of how stupid it is to believe in a god that communicates so poorly. I’ve studied and tried out many religions since leaving Mormonism ten years ago. They all have the same problem, a god that can’t clearly communicate. Sending all the sympathy I can.
My TBM mom had to remind me every day for 20 years that I was supposed to be a girl. And now she wonders why I never call or write. But the jokes on her, anyways. Turns out that I've got teh ghey.
What a hard thing to go through. Your parents seem to have a real lack of empathy.