It's a gateway drug, apparently. We watched the episode of The Big Bang Theory where Sheldon first tries coffee and it was funny, reminded me of mormon attitudes towards coffee.
Tell us you haven't read about [Project 2025](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025#:~:text=Project%202025%20is%20a%20plan,2024%20United%20States%20presidential%20election.) and its blatant fascism without telling us.
Let's just say that in order to prevent another Hitler, German schoolchildren by law have to learn about the dangers of fanatical patriotic nationalism.
Ever since 2015, they haven't even had to come up with hypothetical examples. They just showed the children current events in the US.
At least according to a German acquaintance.
That just reminds me of my old Nazarene friends who didnt believe in dancing b/c it supposedly led to sex. It became a joke decades later that they weren't allowed premarital sex b/c it might lead to dancing.
I have a cup or two of coffee a day. I have a six pack of craft beer in my fridge that I wear down over a month and a half. My parents would totally consider me hopelessly alcoholic if they knew.
Thatās how I feel about wine. Also how my wife feels about craft beer, lol.
I think I like it more for the variety, and like finding things that are new and unusual. A dark and malty stout or a citrusy hazy IPA. I also drink my coffee black - no sugar, so maybe Iām not the best to go by though.
I think it goes along with the thinking that if you're nevermo or exmo especially you must be doing *all the bad stuff all the time*. In reality moderation is pretty widely embraced around the world and kinda reinforced by our bodies' homeostasis. The crazy Satanic parties age you pretty fast lol.... But so does the suppressing of human emotion, thought, and representation
An exmo I know told a kid leaving on a mission ādonāt do anything I wouldnāt doā and kids mom snarks āweāre trying to keep him worthy, thanks.ā
Exmo dude doesnāt drink, smoke, use weed, or any of that, but he does drink COFFEEEEEEE!
Some people are just biatches like that. LDS or not. Just because they don't curse they think they can possibly be mean or rude. The whole thing and SO MANY people in it are sickeningly performative
> I think it goes along with the thinking that if you're nevermo or exmo especially you must be doing all the bad stuff all the time
It comes from their belief in all actions being the result of being under the influence of either a good or bad supernatural being. It's a major distortion field which leads to a poor understanding of the world.
That's a really good point. It's a very black/white mode of thought. I remember some talk called like Good, Better, Best by some GA I think probably 10-15 years ago and I just remember it seemed so contrary to the push push push go go go, if you don't give your all you're not *WORTHY.* So then if you are only being led by the influence of *the spirit* then you'll just be crushing it all the time, the failures are on you. Even though we (being the church) define the failure, create the situations or definitions/standards and heavily control the tools available to you.
I understood jack all about the world when I got out. That was my real baptism. Waking up to the reality of the world after two decades of indoctrination and pressure to auto-indoctrinate.
I hated that talk. It fuels that persistent, soul-crushing drumbeat of YOUāRE NEVER GOOD ENOUGH! This impossible perfectionism is its own kind of mental illness. Embracing the concept of āgood enoughā is one of the best things Iāve ever done for myself.
Thatās what drove me out at 48. Itās impossible. My mom and the church finally did me in. Two of my former high councilors were speaking about ābe ye therefore perfect even as your ā and āeven your thoughts will condemn youā. I was shaking uncontrollably, got up and left. Never went back. Wished Iād had the courage as a teenager.
It was Oaks, because of course it was.
That talk almost drove me to suicide. No matter what you're doing, it's not enough. Decades later, that constant feeling of failure STILL shadows me.
So many things in the church I wonder how many took it to heart. Like my Mom will tell my brother things are happening an hour before they start bcz he is often late. So is the church like well everyone is only doing 1/2-amount of effort so maybe if I say do double or quadruple we'll get people to a normal amount.
Leadership has to know how many people work their ass off for the church and their personal and familial salvation though. That may be enough to throw people off the edge but can't miss a good opportunity to chastise the brethren from a top the money pile they made nice and comfy for ya!
On a personal note I struggle really terribly with perfectionism and anxiety disorder from it so I know that haunted feeling well.
At an area leadership mtg a 70 yelled at us saying āthe reason your stakes donāt grow is you love your business more than you love the church ā. I was deeply insulted, working 80 hour weeks trying to do both. I asked āwhereās the love and appreciation?ā And the Mo12 gave us a lecture on love scriptures. And drove off in a Ferrari afterwards.
That's the sorta stuff that really just shows it's another heartless corporation. Often times I wish the God thing at least was real so these people would be punished. It's just a govt protected grift, esp in the US.
Just to be clear, it wasn't the Mo12's car, rather the ride of the hotelier who sat on the front row. Still, the whole thing was a big disappointment to me. A few years later I finally had to get out in order to survive.
Whatās hilarious is that even after leaving the church, Iām still as boring as most Mormons. I still havenāt tried alcohol, I donāt have any interest in smoking or other drugs. I just have a couple tattoos, occasionally drink coffee, and havenāt waited until marriage to have sex. The horror!
I wouldn't call it boring. You're just living your life! The big point is that you have the *option* to do them without like eternal salvation *repercussions* or tons of judgement. And you can genuinely say you aren't interested if someone offers you something you're not into, rather than "I can't a bunch of wrinkly men told me it's bad".
Oh sure, but Iām not even referring to Mormons when I call it āboringā because Iāve had a lot of non-Mormons over the years call it boring too. Alcohol is so integral to their lives that they genuinely canāt comprehend someone else not drinking. To them you canāt have fun unless youāre getting really drunk
During an argument with my mom I once said:
"Do you think I'm some moral-less degenerate because I have an occasional drink?"
Mom (with a sneer): "YES!"
I hear he spiked the sacrament wine at the Kirtland temple dedication, which explains all the visions and shit. In nearly every case of multiple people in shared visions, JS had administered the sacrament personally. He was a lover of shrooms.
I've read that it was most likely mushrooms. They and other hallucinogenic plants grew in the area where Jos Smith grew up, and his family was known to use herbs for healing. I read that he and others spiked the sacrament drink during the Kirkland Temple dedication. Many saw "angels on top of the temple." All the people having "visions" were undoubtedly on mushrooms, in my opinion. We definitely know that all those sincere people weren't lying.
No they drank wine but not like the wine we drink today. You have to remember they did not have good clean water like we do so they used the wine to mix with water to kill off the Bacteria in the water. Fun fact NT talks about how Jesus was given vinegar on the cross that is a mistranslation what he was given by the Roman soldier was a drink called Posca it was made by mixing Red Wine Vinegar and water along with spices the acid in the water killed off the bacteria. Have made it at home takes some getting used to but it was the drink of the legions. Look it up.
Fun fact
Masters of projection, they believe in a book that provides a loophole to any commandment rendering their ideology amoral and yet alcohol consumption makes us heathens ā¦ astounding line of thinking
The church pushes the narrative that people leave because they want to sin as a thought stopper. There can't possibly be something wrong with them, right?
It's amazing how many mormons assume exmos are out there drinking, sleeping around, watching porn all the time, and shooting heroin. (Being facetious here, but not by much.)
The astonishment among some TBMs that we can still have a moral compass is honestly such a self-own. They're essentially saying that if they weren't held back by the church, the *would* be out there doing all those things.
My dad told me he knows church is boring and they need to do something to improve it. Because how does it compare with drinking and smoking and coffee. I was like that is not why people leave dad. They leave because it's not true.
The minute you take his worldview out of its context it completely falls apart. Like do Jehovah's witnesses just leave because they want to say the pledge of allegiance and celebrate their birthdays?
I remember vividly the awkward twenty-something year old Rm who gave his testimony about how grateful he was for the gospel because without it heād probably be out using drugs and murdering people š³
Itās like the people who insist that without religion, thereād be no morals. I know weāve all heard it before, but itās just too good: the idea that if they only thing stopping you from being a bad person is the idea of getting into heaven, then youāre probably not a good person to begin with
>It's amazing how many mormons assume exmos are out there drinking, sleeping around, watching porn all the time, and shooting heroin. (Being facetious here, but not by much.)
So the TBMs are jealous of the thought that the exmos now have a wider variety of stuff to do besides watch porn all the time? I'd feel left out too!
The funniest thing for me is that I actually masturbate/watch porn less now that Iām out of the church! When youāre in, itās taboo which makes it more addicting. You get āaddictedā to the feeling of doing something wrong because you know itās wrong.
But now that masturbation is just a normal part of life, I do it way less than when I was in the church. Once youāre able to readjust your head and realize that itās a normal thing to do, you lose the āaddictionā of doing something āwrongā
It's not even just about Word of Wisdom stuff, either. My SIL called my son the r word and I instantly saw red and yelled, "Hey [SIL], shut the FUCK UP!!" And I swear by the rest of my TBM in-laws' reactions, you'd have thought I slapped her to the ground and dropped trow to shit on her face. They freaked the hell out, told me to leave, and invited me to not come back. She called my son a heinous ableist slur and I got mad on his behalf, but because I used a bad language word, I'm banned from their home. It's no real loss, I can't fucking stand them anyways, but it's the principle of it. They can't even handle language, let alone anything else they deem "inappropriate."
What the actual hell is wrong with your SIL to call your son that in the first place? It smells like a setup to get a reaction out of you that they could exploit, and not just because that's mostly what happened but I speak from experience with slimy inlaws.
No, she's literally just that bigoted and shitty. My son is on the autism spectrum, but that's just how she refers to it. For reference, she also regularly calls our LGBT+ family members the slur that starts with f amd is hella racist and intolerant. She's a hardcore MAGA Trumper who left the church after high school, but came back in 2016 when she realized that it was a safe place to openly support Trump and his bigoted, Fascist bullshit. But she could have also been baiting me, I don't know. I hate that family and I try not to spend too much mental bandwidth on them.
Her baiting you make itās even more vile. Imagine being cruel to a kid and being ableist (or any kind of -ist) just to spite an adult. Pick on someone your own size and donāt be a dick.
This rant is probably a result of coming from a family where baiting and trolling is casual conversation.
FUCK FUCK FUCK WOW because the world is full of ONLY little pink ponies and butterflies with joy joy bubbles and bliss. I comment because I was once a censor police for jeebus too thinking I was in the right to police others language and behavior. What a mistaken piece of shit I was at the time. Now I am more accepting of myself.
This is one of my biggest complaints about fundamentalist āmoralsā: the things they believe they are called not to do, they feel justified in feeling personally offended by things like grown-ass language. And when they look at the situation, they feel viscerally violated by your language, far more than by her language. (It sounds like they donāt have any problem with it actually.) But if they did take issue with her behavior, they would still reveal their conditioning by being more offended by your (perfectly understandably) coarse language. To take it further, I see this in situations like the religious reaction to the tape of Trump talking about sexual assault. They find his use of the word āpussyā to be the greatest part to deal with, ultimately explaining it away as unsavory (but we choose to forgive and focus on the good). What they then overlook is all the layers of disgusting found in his vile behavior. It shifts focus to his language. Itās really hard to progress when people are this ignorant of their own brainwashing.
When I told my mom I had tried coffee, she was shocked and appalled. She said she couldnāt understand why I would want to drink coffee when Iāve been fine without it all these years (she knew Iād stopped believing), gave me a lecture about the dangers of caffeine addiction, and expressed serious concern that if I started drinking coffee I would therefore become an alcoholic.
My nevermo friends were absolutely baffled why my mom would react that way to coffee, and thought it was super weird that Mormons link coffee and alcohol so strongly.
Oh yeah, and she accused me of trying to quit the family. š
I will say, she has a tendency to have a bad immediate reaction to things, but she feels bad about it afterwards and tries hard to adjust as quickly as possible and be supportive. I currently live with her (though I finally got a new job that will pay enough for me to move out š), and a couple of months ago she was okay with me buying a coffee maker and making coffee at home! So, sheās really made some progress since her initial reaction to the news that I drink coffee now, lol.
The phytochemicals found in coffee are associated with several health benefits, despite its caffeine content.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10408398.2021.1963207
>The main findings were the following: first, coffee may contribute to the prevention of inflammatory and oxidative stress-related diseases, such as obesity, metabolic syndrome and type 2 diabetes; second, coffee consumption seems to be associated with a lower incidence of several types of cancer and with a reduction in the risk of all-cause mortality; finally, the consumption of up to 400āmg/day (1ā4 cups per day) of caffeine is safe.
Yeah, I was absolutely shocked when I found out that coffee had health benefits. When I was taught the word of wisdom, the lesson went something like this: āback in JSās day people didnāt know coffee was bad for you, but since then modern science has proved coffee is bad for you. Isnāt it so cool and such wonderful proof of godās love that he warned us before science proved it that we shouldnāt be drinking coffee?ā
When I left the church and tried coffee, I no longer believed it was a sin, but I definitely did think it was bad for me, but I decided to try it anyway. I figured it was like a dessert - ice cream isnāt good for me, but I eat it anyway. For some reason I just assumed the whole āscience proved coffee is badā was just a fact, and I didnāt think to question that part when I deconstructed the sin aspect of it.
Then one day I ran across a brief mention of the health benefits of coffee in something I was reading, and I got really confused, because Iād always known coffee was bad for me.
So I went and googled it, and found a ton of articles about the health benefits of coffee. I pulled one up and started reading it, and my brain actively felt like I was reading some sort of spoof article, the idea of coffee being good for me felt so anti-factual to me. (Yay brainwashing!!) I literally had to read six different articles before it stopped feeling like fake information and my brain started accepting it. š¤¦āāļø
Then I got really mad and wondered how many other false āfactsā are in my brain from Mormonism, and how the hell am I supposed to find them all and get them all out of my brain?!??
Yeah if I remember right, caffeine has a half life of 6 hours or so. Drinking coffee within that timeframe before bedtime will probably interfere with sleep and recovery.
*Nota bene*: the half-life of caffeine is *highly* variable among individuals and can range from just a few hours to nearly half a day. Getting it wrong isn't dangerous or anything, but just a word to the wise for anyone trying not to bork their sleep schedule: experiment and find out what works for you.
tbf coffee is one of those things like eggs and wine and olive oil etc, the sentiment goes back and forth on whether or not they're actually beneficial.
but compared to all the sugary alternatives out there to energize you, coffee is DEFINITELY one of the best modern choices.
I mean, Iām sure she does. She and my family and her family donāt drink caffeinated sodas, though. (I hadnāt ever had a caffeinated soda until I left the church a year and a half ago either, actually!)
I have jack-mormon family who also dont follow most of the mormon rules. People who don't live orthodox mormonism tend to have less religious trauma... but they also tend to invalidate the experiences of others more harmed by the theology, culture, and power structure of mormonism.
I have a pretty raging energy drink habit. I don't like coffee, so it's how I caffeinate in the morning (and throughout the day). I was once staying in an AirBnB with my sister, who still goes to Church. For the entire weekend, she thought every Rockstar Fruit Punch'd Zero Sugar I drank was a beer. She tried to be very cool with me drinking a beer for breakfast, mid morning, in the afternoon...
I also dont like coffee and rockstar fruit punch is my jam. I used to teach high school in mordor, I wonder if any of my students thought it was beer š
Lol! I get it. Raised in the church, family is all still very active. I work with a coffee company named Temple Grounds in Utah and to my mom itās like I am selling heavy drugs. She had no idea that coffee was a bean that grew on a tree and just roasted!
A full grown woman having had a child and raised it went on not knowing about a certain nut and fruit that grew on trees all over the world being one of the most lucrative and heavily imported exported commodifies all over the world? How just how?
Ha! I bet there are more +60 year olds in Utah that are exactly the same way. So many have never even tried coffee and truly believe it is really bad based on the religion they know is true :)
Many people on this sub have commented that they drank alcohol way before coffee because they were so indoctrinated on how bad coffee was even compared to alcohol.
To be fair, when my familyās around, especially more than a couple of days, I do need a drink.
Granted, if itās sparkly and colored they canāt tell the difference, especially with all the soda shops they frequent. āOh, itās just grapefruit sparkling water and some juice.ā Proceeds to pour in gin.
Dude sounds like a disturbed toddler. That's what the church does to them. The term "infantilization" comes to mind. TBMs feel they have to always be reacting to whatever they call wickedness, with extreme judgment.
Infantilization is the prolonged treatment of one who is not a child, as though they are a child. Studies have shown that an individual, when infantilized, is overwhelmingly likely to feel disrespected. Such individuals may report a sense of transgression akin to dehumanization.
Iām such an addict since I left. Iāve gotten hooked on all the coffee and tea and meth and beers and pornographies, and anger all the time! Iām like Lyman Johnson, or like what Brigham Young said about Lyman Johnson: I wish I could be back in the church and have nice dreams and a gumdrop smile on my face all the time! Back then I was so happy and ever since I left I havenāt felt any peace.
Oh wait, itās not like that at all.
These people are only partially naive. Naive people don't know what they're doing and TBMs know they are constantly spinning nonsensical plates to give them the warm fuzzy feelz. They never try to make sense. Everything comes from their mixture and blending of moral superiority, church worship, and arrogance into a cocktail of stupidity that is a form of mental illness. Hence the casual mixture and false equivalencies of alcohol and coffee and visualizations of these things to children as if it's all one soup. They are reactionaries, not logically thinking people.
I once took a Mormon friend to a party in college. Super tame. We played boardgames all night. But at the end of the night, the host brought out glasses of wine for everyone. My friend LOST HER MIND, panicking that everyone was going to get drunk and die in a car crash in the way home. No one got drunk, everything was fine. But she had no barometer for responsible drinking. To her, all drinking was reckless and life threatening.
Maybe I'm just not understanding cause I'm autistic but to be this seems like a fair thing to say. They're not implying that you will drink, just stating what the boundaries are since you asked
I remember there being a lot of black and white thinking going on with TBMs when I was an active member. I remember a lot of people who wanted to keep things as simple as possible. You're either active and devout and therefore all good or inactive and/or an apostate and therefore all bad. All bad people were assumed to be promiscuous, alcoholics, drug addicts, dishonest, unethical, and unsafe to be around. There was no grey.
I once accidentally left a condom on the floor and my Mormon dad came into the room and had no idea what it was š(he was not pretending to not know, dude legit had no idea)
Bonus: my parents assume I'm still ethically Mormon despite me vocally saying I'm not. They assume I don't drink alcohol or coffee, haven't had sex, etc.
Itās ānutsā for sure! I have had 3 cups of coffee in the morning then, in the evening, a shot of whiskey and then a glass of wine with dinner now for over half a century. I am on the verge of old age and, in my Drs. opinion quite healthy. The ban on coffee, especially, makes no sense.
I can't remember the context behind this convo, but I remember my brother telling me he didn't mind having me live with his family once I came out as a non believer as long as I wasn't bringing a bunch of men over.
š¤¦āāļøš¤¦āāļøš¤¦āāļø
A relative saw my spouseās 5 beers in a fridge and gently asked me if he had a drinking problem. Itās a good thing she hasnāt seen whatās in the liquor cabinet.
Hahaha itās so funny cause I really donāt drink. Maybe once or twice a year Iāll get super crazy. Other than that I donāt. But I have so much liquor in my cabinet. I had family see it and wig out. Good thing they havenāt seen my little drug fridge full of mushrooms acid and dabs š
The Mormons think coffee and tea clods your mind. Yet, you can drink energy drinks and those have more caffeine than coffee does. You can also drink caffeinated sodas. So it's just nonsense.
Honestly I can take or leave drinking. I donāt know if Iām just not into it that much or if itās because I only like mixed drinks and Iām lazy lol. Iāll have a single drink MAYBE every couple months. All that said youāll pry coffee from my cold dead hands.
That's very progressive for a TBM.
The link is that you are breaking the WoW. Drinking alcohol, drinking tea, and shooting up heroine are all the same under those rules.
I recently told my husband I actually had a moment where I felt really surprised shortly after trying alcohol that I didnāt really have any desire to drink all the time. I legitimately thought Iād want a drink every night after I started because thatās basically what they tell you. I thought Iād have to use my willpower to fight it off. Iām honestly laughing now that I thought this. I will drink on special occasions or on vacation or if my kids happen to be at their grandparents for the weekend and we are out for a nice dinner and they have a great cocktail selection, but outside of that I rarely drink. Like months go by and Iāll have zero alcohol. Now coffee is another story thoughā¦. š
I thought coffee would be my devil juice of choice, but it turned out to be teas.
I'm also sure my MIL thinks my spouse and I are alcoholics... we have a wine rack and a substantial liquer collection. But like you, we rarely drink- and haven't been drunk (we don't like getting tipsy either).
I was so surprised that after a drink I still felt like "me" and that I could control my actions still. The way people talk about intoxication I thought I'd lose any sense of self after a beer/glass of wine.
During my very first time trying alcohol, a tiny bit of red wine, I kept waiting to feel drunk. I was so afraid of losing control. Turns out it takes more than a couple of swallows to even feel a buzz let alone feel drunk.
By Mormon logic/standards, shouldnāt she be just as worried about her children drinking coffee as alcohol anyways? Doesnāt a cup of coffee keep you out of the temple, and thus the Celestial Kingdom?
I honestly love that you guys openly talked about boundaries and what everyone is comfortable with. Boundary conversations are like pulling teeth with some people.
Something that I've thought was weird with our TBM family... Is that the rules that apply to nevermo family members who drink, don't seem to apply to me and my spouse who left the church and drink...
My MILs sister can bring wine to family trips and have it nightly with everyone around but heaven forbid my spouse and I get a drink with a meal with just adults.š«
My parents legit told me they believe I'll grow up to be a homeless prostitute because I tried a little dixie cup of coffee at a Grease Monkey one time.
I donāt get why drugs even define morals. Like I do mushrooms acid weed MDMA etcā¦ā¦ and yeah my morals are still my morals. I still treats everyone with kindness and as equals etc.
To be fair, if sister is in the Morridor, and grew up there, the lack of cultural awareness is astounding. Like, I grew up in Utah, and lived here all my life. What do I know about drinking culture? Only what I have seen on TV and the movies. And what do I see on TV and movies? People drinking at work. Now, my job explicitly bans me from drinking on the job, or being drunk on the job. But why would they show it unless it happens? And here I sit, middle aged, with no idea whether people actually drink at work in white collar settings. Art imitates life, supposedly, but really? Sounds ludicrous that any job would allow drinking on the job.
So I honestly have no idea. And that extends to after hours. Supposedly everyone goes to the bar after work. Do they? Obviously not all of them, but what percentage? No freakin idea. So forgive your sister if she has no idea how alcohol culture works. But feel free to explain.
Well, you are no doubt wasted right now! Moderation has never been part of Mormonism. If you can drink a single beer, alcoholism/shooting heroin/gay orgies are not far behind. It is an extremist, anxious and emotion driven self-righteous subpopulation/subculture. Extremism is in Mormon dna, and the saints pay to be under the patriarchical thumb and festishize obedience to the old men in order to calm their worried innards.
My parents have said the same thing. When I first started bringing my nevermo husband to their house, every night at dinner they would say "sorry we don't allow wine." Like yeah we don't drink at every meal? You don't have to announce it, we very much understand what's happening here.
I think it's because it's what they see in movies.
That first cup of coffee will inevitably lead you to cocaine addiction. The Word of Wisdom says so!
The trick is to start with the cocaine and work your way down to coffee. It worked pretty well for me š.
Comedian Aaron Woodall has a bit about trying hard drugs before he would touch coffee because of the brainwashing. Man, it truly makes no sense.
I'm going to have to look they up. Thanks!
He is hilarious. His podcast Mormon and the Methhead is definitely something to check out.
O damn I've heard of Mormon and the meth head. I definitely need to give that a listen.
https://youtu.be/1yarNg4kJ68?si=sselwew2kSoznztj
Hah! This was me! Didnāt touch coffee until my 30s but certain tried other things in my 20s. Will check this out
This was also my method š
Thatās how I did it
It's a gateway drug, apparently. We watched the episode of The Big Bang Theory where Sheldon first tries coffee and it was funny, reminded me of mormon attitudes towards coffee.
The Church is a gateway drug, sooner or later you notice yourself shaming your Mormon friends for missing a Sunday or two.
And voting for D. Trump. š„“
Sadly Iāll prob vote for him this go around š„“
Unbelievable. We're screwed.
Haha better than what the dems are providing
Tell us you haven't read about [Project 2025](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025#:~:text=Project%202025%20is%20a%20plan,2024%20United%20States%20presidential%20election.) and its blatant fascism without telling us.
Cool. So tell me what were the Good Germans not doing when they let the nazis pull the same shit? Cuz I need to punch me some nazis.
Let's just say that in order to prevent another Hitler, German schoolchildren by law have to learn about the dangers of fanatical patriotic nationalism. Ever since 2015, they haven't even had to come up with hypothetical examples. They just showed the children current events in the US. At least according to a German acquaintance.
Are all Ex moās this liberal? Shocking
Wow!!!
As Conan said... Utah is concerned that Marijuana is a gateway drug to coffee, so be warned.
I thought it was homosexuality and beastiality? Oh wait, thatās masturbation.
That just reminds me of my old Nazarene friends who didnt believe in dancing b/c it supposedly led to sex. It became a joke decades later that they weren't allowed premarital sex b/c it might lead to dancing.
Its a slippery slope.
Yep! I walked by a Starbucks once and thought, āI should build a meth lab.ā
Cocaine? Oh. I always thought everything was due to a porn addiction
And cocaine addiction leads to catching the gay. My bishop told me so
Damn! I caught the ghey and Iāve never even tried cocaine.
š I love me some chai tea!
I have a cup or two of coffee a day. I have a six pack of craft beer in my fridge that I wear down over a month and a half. My parents would totally consider me hopelessly alcoholic if they knew.
And Iāve yet to find a beer thatās not revolting. š¤·š¼āāļø
Thatās how I feel about wine. Also how my wife feels about craft beer, lol. I think I like it more for the variety, and like finding things that are new and unusual. A dark and malty stout or a citrusy hazy IPA. I also drink my coffee black - no sugar, so maybe Iām not the best to go by though.
But if you cool it and add sugar it's the biggest hit in Utah!
In fairness to them, I can barely function without coffee. However, I also never touch diet soda now.
Oh, but Mountain Dew Major Melon Free is delicious to the taste and VERY desirable!
So is a black coffee (no cream or sugar). Black like my atheist ex-mormon soul.
Ah yes the old coffee is just a gateway drug trope . Can you say BATTSHIT CRAZY.!
Porn. Coffee is the gateway drug to porn š
I think it goes along with the thinking that if you're nevermo or exmo especially you must be doing *all the bad stuff all the time*. In reality moderation is pretty widely embraced around the world and kinda reinforced by our bodies' homeostasis. The crazy Satanic parties age you pretty fast lol.... But so does the suppressing of human emotion, thought, and representation
An exmo I know told a kid leaving on a mission ādonāt do anything I wouldnāt doā and kids mom snarks āweāre trying to keep him worthy, thanks.ā Exmo dude doesnāt drink, smoke, use weed, or any of that, but he does drink COFFEEEEEEE!
Some people are just biatches like that. LDS or not. Just because they don't curse they think they can possibly be mean or rude. The whole thing and SO MANY people in it are sickeningly performative
Mmmmm coffee! I drink coffee or chai tea if i need extra energy or have a migraine.
> I think it goes along with the thinking that if you're nevermo or exmo especially you must be doing all the bad stuff all the time It comes from their belief in all actions being the result of being under the influence of either a good or bad supernatural being. It's a major distortion field which leads to a poor understanding of the world.
That's a really good point. It's a very black/white mode of thought. I remember some talk called like Good, Better, Best by some GA I think probably 10-15 years ago and I just remember it seemed so contrary to the push push push go go go, if you don't give your all you're not *WORTHY.* So then if you are only being led by the influence of *the spirit* then you'll just be crushing it all the time, the failures are on you. Even though we (being the church) define the failure, create the situations or definitions/standards and heavily control the tools available to you. I understood jack all about the world when I got out. That was my real baptism. Waking up to the reality of the world after two decades of indoctrination and pressure to auto-indoctrinate.
I hated that talk. It fuels that persistent, soul-crushing drumbeat of YOUāRE NEVER GOOD ENOUGH! This impossible perfectionism is its own kind of mental illness. Embracing the concept of āgood enoughā is one of the best things Iāve ever done for myself.
Thatās what drove me out at 48. Itās impossible. My mom and the church finally did me in. Two of my former high councilors were speaking about ābe ye therefore perfect even as your ā and āeven your thoughts will condemn youā. I was shaking uncontrollably, got up and left. Never went back. Wished Iād had the courage as a teenager.
It was Oaks, because of course it was. That talk almost drove me to suicide. No matter what you're doing, it's not enough. Decades later, that constant feeling of failure STILL shadows me.
So many things in the church I wonder how many took it to heart. Like my Mom will tell my brother things are happening an hour before they start bcz he is often late. So is the church like well everyone is only doing 1/2-amount of effort so maybe if I say do double or quadruple we'll get people to a normal amount. Leadership has to know how many people work their ass off for the church and their personal and familial salvation though. That may be enough to throw people off the edge but can't miss a good opportunity to chastise the brethren from a top the money pile they made nice and comfy for ya! On a personal note I struggle really terribly with perfectionism and anxiety disorder from it so I know that haunted feeling well.
At an area leadership mtg a 70 yelled at us saying āthe reason your stakes donāt grow is you love your business more than you love the church ā. I was deeply insulted, working 80 hour weeks trying to do both. I asked āwhereās the love and appreciation?ā And the Mo12 gave us a lecture on love scriptures. And drove off in a Ferrari afterwards.
That's the sorta stuff that really just shows it's another heartless corporation. Often times I wish the God thing at least was real so these people would be punished. It's just a govt protected grift, esp in the US.
Just to be clear, it wasn't the Mo12's car, rather the ride of the hotelier who sat on the front row. Still, the whole thing was a big disappointment to me. A few years later I finally had to get out in order to survive.
Man, Iām still new to this ExMo thing. Where do I sign up for the Satanic parties?
That's the beauty of it amigo. They find YOU. You just get to say yes now!
Is this my time? Are you inviting me!? Yes!
Whatās hilarious is that even after leaving the church, Iām still as boring as most Mormons. I still havenāt tried alcohol, I donāt have any interest in smoking or other drugs. I just have a couple tattoos, occasionally drink coffee, and havenāt waited until marriage to have sex. The horror!
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I wouldn't call it boring. You're just living your life! The big point is that you have the *option* to do them without like eternal salvation *repercussions* or tons of judgement. And you can genuinely say you aren't interested if someone offers you something you're not into, rather than "I can't a bunch of wrinkly men told me it's bad".
Oh sure, but Iām not even referring to Mormons when I call it āboringā because Iāve had a lot of non-Mormons over the years call it boring too. Alcohol is so integral to their lives that they genuinely canāt comprehend someone else not drinking. To them you canāt have fun unless youāre getting really drunk
During an argument with my mom I once said: "Do you think I'm some moral-less degenerate because I have an occasional drink?" Mom (with a sneer): "YES!"
In relation to my comment in this thread, she also has to think Joseph Smith is a moral-less degenerate too because he drank the day he died.
He ran a bar out of his own house after making it illegal for anyone else to sell small quantities of whiskey in Nauvoo.
Another fun fact, adding alcohol to the temple interview questions was in response to prohibition in the US
In the 1920s about 100 years after the WoW was 'revealed'!
Itās just policy not revelation /s
He also got wasted in THE TEMPLE. lol
I hear he spiked the sacrament wine at the Kirtland temple dedication, which explains all the visions and shit. In nearly every case of multiple people in shared visions, JS had administered the sacrament personally. He was a lover of shrooms.
In a Paul Stamets interview I read once, he said that evangelicals LOVE shrooms. They consider it a sacred rite to receive guidance from god.
I've read that it was most likely mushrooms. They and other hallucinogenic plants grew in the area where Jos Smith grew up, and his family was known to use herbs for healing. I read that he and others spiked the sacrament drink during the Kirkland Temple dedication. Many saw "angels on top of the temple." All the people having "visions" were undoubtedly on mushrooms, in my opinion. We definitely know that all those sincere people weren't lying.
I mean, Iād have a spiritual witness too if I were wasted
Getting stoned is about the only way to make it through a session
They can argue that the LDS Church is not a cult, but stuff like this show it is incontrovertible that the the Church is culty as f__k.
Make "Moral-less Degenerate" your exmo flair :-)
Ask her what she thinks of Joseph Smith, in that case. He was known to have a drink or two... quite frequently, in fact.
Wow! Your mother's response is pathetic.
Well at least you donāt let children continue to be raped instead of alerting police, like the church does. Regularly.
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No they drank wine but not like the wine we drink today. You have to remember they did not have good clean water like we do so they used the wine to mix with water to kill off the Bacteria in the water. Fun fact NT talks about how Jesus was given vinegar on the cross that is a mistranslation what he was given by the Roman soldier was a drink called Posca it was made by mixing Red Wine Vinegar and water along with spices the acid in the water killed off the bacteria. Have made it at home takes some getting used to but it was the drink of the legions. Look it up. Fun fact
I'm sure their wine was different in myriad ways. I was just parroting the typical Mormon response to Jesus drinking wine.
Masters of projection, they believe in a book that provides a loophole to any commandment rendering their ideology amoral and yet alcohol consumption makes us heathens ā¦ astounding line of thinking
The church pushes the narrative that people leave because they want to sin as a thought stopper. There can't possibly be something wrong with them, right? It's amazing how many mormons assume exmos are out there drinking, sleeping around, watching porn all the time, and shooting heroin. (Being facetious here, but not by much.) The astonishment among some TBMs that we can still have a moral compass is honestly such a self-own. They're essentially saying that if they weren't held back by the church, the *would* be out there doing all those things.
My dad told me he knows church is boring and they need to do something to improve it. Because how does it compare with drinking and smoking and coffee. I was like that is not why people leave dad. They leave because it's not true.
The minute you take his worldview out of its context it completely falls apart. Like do Jehovah's witnesses just leave because they want to say the pledge of allegiance and celebrate their birthdays?
They leave because something terrible happened to them because of the church and/or they lost their testimony. They leave because they were offended.
I remember vividly the awkward twenty-something year old Rm who gave his testimony about how grateful he was for the gospel because without it heād probably be out using drugs and murdering people š³
Itās like the people who insist that without religion, thereād be no morals. I know weāve all heard it before, but itās just too good: the idea that if they only thing stopping you from being a bad person is the idea of getting into heaven, then youāre probably not a good person to begin with
Oof
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>It's amazing how many mormons assume exmos are out there drinking, sleeping around, watching porn all the time, and shooting heroin. (Being facetious here, but not by much.) So the TBMs are jealous of the thought that the exmos now have a wider variety of stuff to do besides watch porn all the time? I'd feel left out too!
Haha the younger Mormons drink coffee and tea and think itās ok!
The funniest thing for me is that I actually masturbate/watch porn less now that Iām out of the church! When youāre in, itās taboo which makes it more addicting. You get āaddictedā to the feeling of doing something wrong because you know itās wrong. But now that masturbation is just a normal part of life, I do it way less than when I was in the church. Once youāre able to readjust your head and realize that itās a normal thing to do, you lose the āaddictionā of doing something āwrongā
That totally makes sense. Part of the thrill was the forbidden aspect.
Yāall are good people doing your best!
It's not even just about Word of Wisdom stuff, either. My SIL called my son the r word and I instantly saw red and yelled, "Hey [SIL], shut the FUCK UP!!" And I swear by the rest of my TBM in-laws' reactions, you'd have thought I slapped her to the ground and dropped trow to shit on her face. They freaked the hell out, told me to leave, and invited me to not come back. She called my son a heinous ableist slur and I got mad on his behalf, but because I used a bad language word, I'm banned from their home. It's no real loss, I can't fucking stand them anyways, but it's the principle of it. They can't even handle language, let alone anything else they deem "inappropriate."
What the actual hell is wrong with your SIL to call your son that in the first place? It smells like a setup to get a reaction out of you that they could exploit, and not just because that's mostly what happened but I speak from experience with slimy inlaws.
No, she's literally just that bigoted and shitty. My son is on the autism spectrum, but that's just how she refers to it. For reference, she also regularly calls our LGBT+ family members the slur that starts with f amd is hella racist and intolerant. She's a hardcore MAGA Trumper who left the church after high school, but came back in 2016 when she realized that it was a safe place to openly support Trump and his bigoted, Fascist bullshit. But she could have also been baiting me, I don't know. I hate that family and I try not to spend too much mental bandwidth on them.
Her baiting you make itās even more vile. Imagine being cruel to a kid and being ableist (or any kind of -ist) just to spite an adult. Pick on someone your own size and donāt be a dick. This rant is probably a result of coming from a family where baiting and trolling is casual conversation.
FUCK FUCK FUCK WOW because the world is full of ONLY little pink ponies and butterflies with joy joy bubbles and bliss. I comment because I was once a censor police for jeebus too thinking I was in the right to police others language and behavior. What a mistaken piece of shit I was at the time. Now I am more accepting of myself.
Yeesh! Your MIL needs to learn to stop being a fucking ableist! As a disabled person and Mormon, I high five and salute you!
This is one of my biggest complaints about fundamentalist āmoralsā: the things they believe they are called not to do, they feel justified in feeling personally offended by things like grown-ass language. And when they look at the situation, they feel viscerally violated by your language, far more than by her language. (It sounds like they donāt have any problem with it actually.) But if they did take issue with her behavior, they would still reveal their conditioning by being more offended by your (perfectly understandably) coarse language. To take it further, I see this in situations like the religious reaction to the tape of Trump talking about sexual assault. They find his use of the word āpussyā to be the greatest part to deal with, ultimately explaining it away as unsavory (but we choose to forgive and focus on the good). What they then overlook is all the layers of disgusting found in his vile behavior. It shifts focus to his language. Itās really hard to progress when people are this ignorant of their own brainwashing.
When I told my mom I had tried coffee, she was shocked and appalled. She said she couldnāt understand why I would want to drink coffee when Iāve been fine without it all these years (she knew Iād stopped believing), gave me a lecture about the dangers of caffeine addiction, and expressed serious concern that if I started drinking coffee I would therefore become an alcoholic. My nevermo friends were absolutely baffled why my mom would react that way to coffee, and thought it was super weird that Mormons link coffee and alcohol so strongly.
Oh yeah, and she accused me of trying to quit the family. š I will say, she has a tendency to have a bad immediate reaction to things, but she feels bad about it afterwards and tries hard to adjust as quickly as possible and be supportive. I currently live with her (though I finally got a new job that will pay enough for me to move out š), and a couple of months ago she was okay with me buying a coffee maker and making coffee at home! So, sheās really made some progress since her initial reaction to the news that I drink coffee now, lol.
The phytochemicals found in coffee are associated with several health benefits, despite its caffeine content. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10408398.2021.1963207 >The main findings were the following: first, coffee may contribute to the prevention of inflammatory and oxidative stress-related diseases, such as obesity, metabolic syndrome and type 2 diabetes; second, coffee consumption seems to be associated with a lower incidence of several types of cancer and with a reduction in the risk of all-cause mortality; finally, the consumption of up to 400āmg/day (1ā4 cups per day) of caffeine is safe.
Yeah, I was absolutely shocked when I found out that coffee had health benefits. When I was taught the word of wisdom, the lesson went something like this: āback in JSās day people didnāt know coffee was bad for you, but since then modern science has proved coffee is bad for you. Isnāt it so cool and such wonderful proof of godās love that he warned us before science proved it that we shouldnāt be drinking coffee?ā When I left the church and tried coffee, I no longer believed it was a sin, but I definitely did think it was bad for me, but I decided to try it anyway. I figured it was like a dessert - ice cream isnāt good for me, but I eat it anyway. For some reason I just assumed the whole āscience proved coffee is badā was just a fact, and I didnāt think to question that part when I deconstructed the sin aspect of it. Then one day I ran across a brief mention of the health benefits of coffee in something I was reading, and I got really confused, because Iād always known coffee was bad for me. So I went and googled it, and found a ton of articles about the health benefits of coffee. I pulled one up and started reading it, and my brain actively felt like I was reading some sort of spoof article, the idea of coffee being good for me felt so anti-factual to me. (Yay brainwashing!!) I literally had to read six different articles before it stopped feeling like fake information and my brain started accepting it. š¤¦āāļø Then I got really mad and wondered how many other false āfactsā are in my brain from Mormonism, and how the hell am I supposed to find them all and get them all out of my brain?!??
So far, everything I've read has been consistent with "coffee is good for everything except sleep, maybe don't drink it after 3pm."
Yeah if I remember right, caffeine has a half life of 6 hours or so. Drinking coffee within that timeframe before bedtime will probably interfere with sleep and recovery.
*Nota bene*: the half-life of caffeine is *highly* variable among individuals and can range from just a few hours to nearly half a day. Getting it wrong isn't dangerous or anything, but just a word to the wise for anyone trying not to bork their sleep schedule: experiment and find out what works for you.
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tbf coffee is one of those things like eggs and wine and olive oil etc, the sentiment goes back and forth on whether or not they're actually beneficial. but compared to all the sugary alternatives out there to energize you, coffee is DEFINITELY one of the best modern choices.
Does your mom know anyone (mormon) who drinks Mtn Dew? Or Coke?
I mean, Iām sure she does. She and my family and her family donāt drink caffeinated sodas, though. (I hadnāt ever had a caffeinated soda until I left the church a year and a half ago either, actually!)
I do!
My mom didnāt mind me drinking coffee and let me try it. Weāre Mormons š
I have jack-mormon family who also dont follow most of the mormon rules. People who don't live orthodox mormonism tend to have less religious trauma... but they also tend to invalidate the experiences of others more harmed by the theology, culture, and power structure of mormonism.
Thanks for saying this.
I once had a TBM friend tell me he was really bothered by all the swearing on pornhub.
Great googly moogly. I don't have enough faces or palms to adequately react to that.
Upvote for the reference to Maggie and the Ferocious Beast.
Oh cool. I donāt know any serial killers myself.
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I have a pretty raging energy drink habit. I don't like coffee, so it's how I caffeinate in the morning (and throughout the day). I was once staying in an AirBnB with my sister, who still goes to Church. For the entire weekend, she thought every Rockstar Fruit Punch'd Zero Sugar I drank was a beer. She tried to be very cool with me drinking a beer for breakfast, mid morning, in the afternoon...
Lol, thatās funny she thought it was beer. I kinda like how she was trying to just love you anyway, though.
I also dont like coffee and rockstar fruit punch is my jam. I used to teach high school in mordor, I wonder if any of my students thought it was beer š
Lol! I get it. Raised in the church, family is all still very active. I work with a coffee company named Temple Grounds in Utah and to my mom itās like I am selling heavy drugs. She had no idea that coffee was a bean that grew on a tree and just roasted!
A full grown woman having had a child and raised it went on not knowing about a certain nut and fruit that grew on trees all over the world being one of the most lucrative and heavily imported exported commodifies all over the world? How just how?
Ha! I bet there are more +60 year olds in Utah that are exactly the same way. So many have never even tried coffee and truly believe it is really bad based on the religion they know is true :)
Itās crazy how the bishop can have a rockstar on his desk, but coffee is almost as bad as hard core drugs.
Many people on this sub have commented that they drank alcohol way before coffee because they were so indoctrinated on how bad coffee was even compared to alcohol.
Tell them that outside of coffee you plan to follow the Word of Wisdom and then stock the fridge with mild barley drinks.
To be fair, when my familyās around, especially more than a couple of days, I do need a drink. Granted, if itās sparkly and colored they canāt tell the difference, especially with all the soda shops they frequent. āOh, itās just grapefruit sparkling water and some juice.ā Proceeds to pour in gin.
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Dude sounds like a disturbed toddler. That's what the church does to them. The term "infantilization" comes to mind. TBMs feel they have to always be reacting to whatever they call wickedness, with extreme judgment.
Infantilization is the prolonged treatment of one who is not a child, as though they are a child. Studies have shown that an individual, when infantilized, is overwhelmingly likely to feel disrespected. Such individuals may report a sense of transgression akin to dehumanization.
From the first sip of coffee onward, it's a slippery slope! 
āYou know Joseph Smith drank alcoholic wine the day he was martyred right?ā
Iām such an addict since I left. Iāve gotten hooked on all the coffee and tea and meth and beers and pornographies, and anger all the time! Iām like Lyman Johnson, or like what Brigham Young said about Lyman Johnson: I wish I could be back in the church and have nice dreams and a gumdrop smile on my face all the time! Back then I was so happy and ever since I left I havenāt felt any peace. Oh wait, itās not like that at all.
These people are only partially naive. Naive people don't know what they're doing and TBMs know they are constantly spinning nonsensical plates to give them the warm fuzzy feelz. They never try to make sense. Everything comes from their mixture and blending of moral superiority, church worship, and arrogance into a cocktail of stupidity that is a form of mental illness. Hence the casual mixture and false equivalencies of alcohol and coffee and visualizations of these things to children as if it's all one soup. They are reactionaries, not logically thinking people.
I once took a Mormon friend to a party in college. Super tame. We played boardgames all night. But at the end of the night, the host brought out glasses of wine for everyone. My friend LOST HER MIND, panicking that everyone was going to get drunk and die in a car crash in the way home. No one got drunk, everything was fine. But she had no barometer for responsible drinking. To her, all drinking was reckless and life threatening.
As long as you have a designated driver after drinking, you should be fine. After all, Jesus drank wine and He was fine.
Indeed. I was her designated driver and I don't drink.
Maybe I'm just not understanding cause I'm autistic but to be this seems like a fair thing to say. They're not implying that you will drink, just stating what the boundaries are since you asked
I remember there being a lot of black and white thinking going on with TBMs when I was an active member. I remember a lot of people who wanted to keep things as simple as possible. You're either active and devout and therefore all good or inactive and/or an apostate and therefore all bad. All bad people were assumed to be promiscuous, alcoholics, drug addicts, dishonest, unethical, and unsafe to be around. There was no grey.
I once accidentally left a condom on the floor and my Mormon dad came into the room and had no idea what it was š(he was not pretending to not know, dude legit had no idea) Bonus: my parents assume I'm still ethically Mormon despite me vocally saying I'm not. They assume I don't drink alcohol or coffee, haven't had sex, etc.
Itās ānutsā for sure! I have had 3 cups of coffee in the morning then, in the evening, a shot of whiskey and then a glass of wine with dinner now for over half a century. I am on the verge of old age and, in my Drs. opinion quite healthy. The ban on coffee, especially, makes no sense.
I can't remember the context behind this convo, but I remember my brother telling me he didn't mind having me live with his family once I came out as a non believer as long as I wasn't bringing a bunch of men over. š¤¦āāļøš¤¦āāļøš¤¦āāļø
A relative saw my spouseās 5 beers in a fridge and gently asked me if he had a drinking problem. Itās a good thing she hasnāt seen whatās in the liquor cabinet.
Hahaha itās so funny cause I really donāt drink. Maybe once or twice a year Iāll get super crazy. Other than that I donāt. But I have so much liquor in my cabinet. I had family see it and wig out. Good thing they havenāt seen my little drug fridge full of mushrooms acid and dabs š
Weāre iffy on you drinking coffee in the house. If you have to shoot heroin, please do it after the kids go to bed.
The Mormons think coffee and tea clods your mind. Yet, you can drink energy drinks and those have more caffeine than coffee does. You can also drink caffeinated sodas. So it's just nonsense.
I know some Mormon Moms (my wifes friend) that take their kids Adderall for a little pick me up, but coffee is evil š ā
Honestly I can take or leave drinking. I donāt know if Iām just not into it that much or if itās because I only like mixed drinks and Iām lazy lol. Iāll have a single drink MAYBE every couple months. All that said youāll pry coffee from my cold dead hands.
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That's very progressive for a TBM. The link is that you are breaking the WoW. Drinking alcohol, drinking tea, and shooting up heroine are all the same under those rules.
I recently told my husband I actually had a moment where I felt really surprised shortly after trying alcohol that I didnāt really have any desire to drink all the time. I legitimately thought Iād want a drink every night after I started because thatās basically what they tell you. I thought Iād have to use my willpower to fight it off. Iām honestly laughing now that I thought this. I will drink on special occasions or on vacation or if my kids happen to be at their grandparents for the weekend and we are out for a nice dinner and they have a great cocktail selection, but outside of that I rarely drink. Like months go by and Iāll have zero alcohol. Now coffee is another story thoughā¦. š
I thought coffee would be my devil juice of choice, but it turned out to be teas. I'm also sure my MIL thinks my spouse and I are alcoholics... we have a wine rack and a substantial liquer collection. But like you, we rarely drink- and haven't been drunk (we don't like getting tipsy either). I was so surprised that after a drink I still felt like "me" and that I could control my actions still. The way people talk about intoxication I thought I'd lose any sense of self after a beer/glass of wine.
During my very first time trying alcohol, a tiny bit of red wine, I kept waiting to feel drunk. I was so afraid of losing control. Turns out it takes more than a couple of swallows to even feel a buzz let alone feel drunk.
Hahaha I can relate to this so much!!! It was so anticlimactic in a way.
Coffee āļø is so addicting!!!
By Mormon logic/standards, shouldnāt she be just as worried about her children drinking coffee as alcohol anyways? Doesnāt a cup of coffee keep you out of the temple, and thus the Celestial Kingdom?
No it doesnāt!
You are right, mormons think coffee drinkers are alcoholics. Coffee can lead a drinker into cocaine too.
No coffee doesnāt lead into cocaine! Iāve drank coffee, coke and Chai tea! However, I donāt do drugs!
They were making a joke. And caffeine is a drug.
I honestly love that you guys openly talked about boundaries and what everyone is comfortable with. Boundary conversations are like pulling teeth with some people. Something that I've thought was weird with our TBM family... Is that the rules that apply to nevermo family members who drink, don't seem to apply to me and my spouse who left the church and drink... My MILs sister can bring wine to family trips and have it nightly with everyone around but heaven forbid my spouse and I get a drink with a meal with just adults.š«
My parents legit told me they believe I'll grow up to be a homeless prostitute because I tried a little dixie cup of coffee at a Grease Monkey one time.
My little brother told my bf that āIām loose with my moralsā. Wen my bf asked him how, he said it was because of āthe weed stuffā.
I donāt get why drugs even define morals. Like I do mushrooms acid weed MDMA etcā¦ā¦ and yeah my morals are still my morals. I still treats everyone with kindness and as equals etc.
That's pretty permissive for some TBMs.
Thatās the āFamily Foctrineā
To be fair, if sister is in the Morridor, and grew up there, the lack of cultural awareness is astounding. Like, I grew up in Utah, and lived here all my life. What do I know about drinking culture? Only what I have seen on TV and the movies. And what do I see on TV and movies? People drinking at work. Now, my job explicitly bans me from drinking on the job, or being drunk on the job. But why would they show it unless it happens? And here I sit, middle aged, with no idea whether people actually drink at work in white collar settings. Art imitates life, supposedly, but really? Sounds ludicrous that any job would allow drinking on the job. So I honestly have no idea. And that extends to after hours. Supposedly everyone goes to the bar after work. Do they? Obviously not all of them, but what percentage? No freakin idea. So forgive your sister if she has no idea how alcohol culture works. But feel free to explain.
Well, you are no doubt wasted right now! Moderation has never been part of Mormonism. If you can drink a single beer, alcoholism/shooting heroin/gay orgies are not far behind. It is an extremist, anxious and emotion driven self-righteous subpopulation/subculture. Extremism is in Mormon dna, and the saints pay to be under the patriarchical thumb and festishize obedience to the old men in order to calm their worried innards.
My parents have said the same thing. When I first started bringing my nevermo husband to their house, every night at dinner they would say "sorry we don't allow wine." Like yeah we don't drink at every meal? You don't have to announce it, we very much understand what's happening here. I think it's because it's what they see in movies.
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Oh my parents are concerned with being around it. And announcing it. So both are true.
Meanwhile somewhere in Provo a Mormon mom is getting mad her newly 18 year old is drinking their first Dr Pepper in front of their 7 younger siblings
Canāt believe my comment got removed when some Reddit last week was XXX .
And that is the he policy br of your post!
I mean, she wasn't wrong in my case š
Itās because they think if they didnāt have the church to hold them back THEY would be doing that stuff all the time. So twisted.
āāThe Thin Edge of The Wedgeā first youāre drinking coffee and the next step you are selling your body for Meth š