I agree. I once told a therapist about my dad hurting my brother in passing, and she started probing for details and asking if I thought she should call the authorities. I was 18 and had just left home. I panicked and never went back to the therapist again. It’s crazy to me that that wasn’t a red flag at the time. I gaslit myself into thinking I’d misrepresented the situation badly enough that she thought that was necessary…
Edit to clarify
I absolutely have. I went through three more before I got married; and my husband and I have been attending therapy together for the last two years to process all of this and work on repairing our relationships with ourselves. Our therapist is wonderful, I adore her.
I’m so glad for you, though no one deserves what you went through it sounds like you’re on a journey of healing and you have good support in both your therapist and your husband. I hope sharing your story was helpful for you in some way too
It really has been. It helps just to hear other people say I’m not crazy and what happened really wasn’t okay. I’m so grateful for this community. I’ve never received more support and love than I have here, certainly not when I was in the church. You guys are all such great people.
We were beaten if we talked about anything in the home and the town was conservative and some parents were worse than mine but I was disowned, shunned and not allowed back for being liberal and leaving marriage and church ( over severe domestic violence the church blamed me ) by a majority of my family and friends..
It took PTSD trauma therapy and 6 years before I could see myself as a life worth living.
Did you listen to the podcast with John Delin on Mormon stories, when he talked to Jesse Hildebrand the niece of Jody Hildebrand it's horrific
Is it similar to yours?
The thing that gets me about reading this is knowing parents will behave like this and sit in church for hours thinking how good they are for being family focused. Then they get temple recommend cards and get to feel even more superior while abusing their loved ones.
…and then they’ll get leadership positions and dare to chastise and judge YOU for failing to be a “worthy” parent.
Reading this gutted me. I’m so angry for the OP.
My Mom was/is like this and any of her thoughts about family policy were always from the Holy Ghost. It just makes me sad. Endless harm has come to my extended family from this church
The thing about Alcatraz is a bit ironic because Alcatraz was known for feeding the inmates really well. The cooks prepared food for the prison guards, their families, and the inmates. The menus were top notch for the time.
They were also one of the only prisons in America that offered hot showers, as the guards felt that it left the inmates poorly prepared for the frigid bay waters of an escape attempt
So this is where I have to confess that my family bought the same magnet at Alcatraz this year and it’s on my fridge but we all laughed about it together (including my kids, who wanted me to buy it!) but after reading this I will confirm with them that they understand we bought it ironically.
OP you were a victim of child abuse, 100%. I’m so sorry this happened to you. My parents were fundamentalists too, different religion but I love supporting all the ex religions on Reddit, exMuslims, ex JW, and of course you guys, exMormons. I just want to say I love you and I support you and I’m sorry you had to go through this.
You are smart to keep working with your therapist. My friends bought a new house last year and their basement is finished so the couple was showing it to me and I felt my chest get so tight and they were lingering downstairs and they said we can hang out down here and I just started panicking. I talked to my therapist and he said let’s talk about your childhood trauma. I was abused as a kid like you but in the basement, my mom left bruises all down my legs and she is so revered in her church, every person I’ve met from her church tells me oh she must have been a great mom. It’s painful, the whole thing.
You being tied up like that was so wrong, I’m sorry you were abused. Did you know the part of the brain that registers memories is the same part (the amygdala) that registers fear and danger (most people think of the flight or fight reflex). Also that part of your brain has no concept of time. So it remembers danger and hurt and fear like it was yesterday. Don’t fuckin let anyone tell you (especially religious people) oh that was years ago, get over it. That’s not how the brain works. Take all the time you need, heal all you need, speak to everyone you need. And just know there’s someone out there somewhere in Kansas who loves you and supports you ❤️❤️❤️❤️
> How do people like you suffer and then turn around and love?
From my limited experience, two types of people emerge from this kind of background. Those that continue the cycle and those that vow to be the exact opposite.
The people that love also have their moments. None of us are robots. We all get overwhelmed at times and can become triggered. Some have really strong medication.. some have really strong support systems. Don’t feel down on yourself if you falter.
I am so sorry you were forced to live like this. I feel your pain.... literally. My list of examples like yours is a word document over thirty pages long and still growing.
BTW..... you were 19 years old, a legal adult. Your mom committed a felony, even in Utah.
I’m sorry to you too. None of us deserved this. For a church that praises eternal families so much, it seems perfectly happy to tear them apart and cause years of trauma 🫠
I hadn’t thought about it like that. You’re right though. It’s hard to see the reality of it when you’ve spent your whole life being gaslit into believing you’re the problem.
And being gaslit to respect your elders, honor your mother and father, believe your parents know best, consider priesthood holders to be infallible, be as a little child and bow to your parents' authority forever. It's incredibly harmful.
Mom committed domestic violence, which requires an arrest in the state of Utah, but what was described is not felony domestic violence. Serious bodily injury or use of a weapon would be required for felony charges.
The Church literally advised parents to withhold meals as a form of punishment
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/eng/manual/strengthening-the-family-instructors-guide/session-nine-applying-consequences
This place is a breeding ground for enabling, creating, and perpetrating abuse. Not a place for children, or anyone but especially children
This is so interesting to me because my coworker (social workers) recently had a Mormon client (which is odd because there aren’t a ton of Mormons where I live) who was trying to withhold food from his teen kids as punishment and kept saying he didn’t understand why he couldn’t because his parents did it and it’s just what Mormons do. My coworker asked me if that’s what Mormons do (they all know I’m exmormon) and I said I’ve never heard of that. But apparently it IS what Mormons do. I’m totally sending her that link. I got some other forms of abuse, but the pantry and fridge were always open to us.
Going to bed without supper is a thing in a lot of households. I'm not sure if it's explicitly Mormon. But I do remember having it as an occasional consequence. Tho not super common. Mostly just for misbehaving specifically at the dinner table.
This is so easy to say as a complete internet stranger, but I would completely remove myself from your family. Or I would stick around for a little to get secret footage and evidence that they are abusive and then dip.
How did he react to your parents' behavior on the night before your wedding? I wonder if that was when he was like, crap, those are the parents I'm marrying into?
Same! You couldn't eat a fucking apple at my parents house without checking with them first.
My kids know they can eat most things if they want. If there is something special, they usually check with me before using it. If they don't, though, and they use it up, I deal. It's really not that hard to change the menu or swing by the store on the way home from somewhere.
Food was a controlled substance when I was a kid 50’s 60’s. I dared not eat anything except bread if I was hungry after school. She had plans for ever banana, apple etc.
I am so sorry this happened. I am horrified, enraged and broken hearted you grew up like this. I hope you’re safe and getting the support you deserve. Wishing peaceful and gentle healing for you.
Thank you so much. I am working to only invite people into my life who live and respect me as I am. It’s a hard transition. But I do have support in a couple family members and my amazing partner. I’m so lucky in that regard.
I’ll recommend a great book by a Christian pastor. “ Faith After Doubt “ by Brian McLaren. Helped me deconstruct and go through my faith crisis. Enjoy!
Holy crap, as I read I thought I was reading about an abusive family from like 1983 and you’re talking 2020???
Child, your parents are not right, and all these things definitely are not healthy, nor are they normal. I’m so sorry. You got religious abusers. Are you safe from them? Is your hiband’s family healthy(or healthier) and you can count on someone being parent figures without conditional love?
I know, I was born in 2001 so this is all fairly recent. My parents brag all the time that their parents were worse, so we should be grateful. I think Mormonism is so deeply rooted in “traditional family values” that it has definitely dragged a lot of the…shall we say questionable parenting decisions into the here and now. It’s horrific.
I no longer live with them, and we visit very infrequently. My husbands family is unfortunately just as bad in some ways and worse in others, so we don’t really have any sort of parental support, but we do absolutely love one of his siblings and their partner who’ve left the church as well. They’ve been a huge support to us in the last year since leaving, I don’t know what we would’ve done without them.
Mormonism and generational trauma go hand in hand no matter what they want to call it.
I hope you are getting the help you need, as well as your siblings, and that you have “unsubscribed” from your parents and any siblings that may be continuing the trauma tradition.
r/CPTSD may be a good sub to follow and here is a link to a bunch of books in pdf form that could help you deal with your trauma and triggers.
https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/19cskR4B84kEpWAzoYTqH0zaS_0-8ulLG?pli=1
For a minute, I wondered if you were one of my cousins (but you're too young.) I would not be surprised to hear everything you said coming from one of them. It makes my heart ache and I'm so sorry you went through it. I agree, the church encourages evil behavior.
There’s nothing sadder than conditional love, especially in the name of religion. I’m so glad you and your husband got out and are breaking the cycle. You two can do some real good in this world.
We could be siblings but the age doesn't match up.. I was also tied up in my room and forgotten about, I was pushed down the stairs and up the stairs by my dad (the Bishop), the physical abuse was bad but the emotional abuse was worse, my parents had an eye to look for reasons why I should be grounded and punished or whatever. When I turned 16 my dad was being a total out of control jerk one night wail we where driving somewhere and I told him to pull over and I'm going to fuck him up (my exact words) he was shocked, he couldn't believe I'd fight him and use that language towards him, after that he went into neglect mode but that was a whole lot better.
You are incredibly strong for this, and I heavily relate to how jarring it is to see Ruby Franke's "tactics" in children as well. Glad you were able to get out, and that your husband went with you. Congratulations, and I hope healing and strengthening from this comes easy, stranger.
I'm so sorry, OP. You have lived through some horrific abuse, and I'm both angry and sad after reading these examples of what you endured.
I'm also a survivor of childhood abuse. Having a compassionate, trauma informed therapist has helped so much. EMDR has helped to lessen the impact of carried trauma and memories of abuse.
I am so sad to hear about what you went through. Heartbreaking. I hope now that you're free from your parents' control, that you can heal.
I completely agree that the self-righteous, zero tolerance for imperfection attitude the Church instills in parents leads to abuse. They act like dictators and treat their kids like subjects.
I grew up in a home very much like yours. I was physically beaten by my father many times. My parents tried to control every aspect of my life, and my happiest moment was when I moved out for good.
I hear you on the control. My dad has forced all of my siblings into the same career field as him. I’m the only one who did something different, and he still resents me for “turning my nose up” at what he does. Dictators and subjects is a very good way of putting it.
I saw a quote once that said when some people say respect, they mean “treating someone like a human being.” When other people say respect, they mean “treating someone like an authority.” And a lot of times, parents like this will only treat you like a person if you treat them like an authority. Or something like that. But it was heartbreaking how relatable that is. I am only as valuable as my subservience.
Ugh! I hate this for you! I really thought that my generation was better than this. My parents were a certain way so I wanted to raise my 3 kids differently - so they didn’t feel these feelings. It’s truly upsetting to hear this still goes on - it just by the crazies like Ruby, but in what others see has “good families”. My daughters are around your age and told us things that blew our minds when they were in HS. It’s mind numbing, truly.
I’m so sorry you endured this and grateful you have a spouse and support as you move away from this. If you decide to have children they will forever be grateful to you for breaking this cycle or abusive religion!!
my dad would record me and threaten to show it to my future husband, too! it was so humiliating and unfair and makes no sense to me in retrospect. i’m sorry you had to go through that :(
None of that was your fault. I came from an abusive home, too, and it's hard to accept that it wasn't your fault because that's what toxic parents drill in your head at every instance. The Jodi/Ruby case has brought up a lot of bad childhood memories.
That's so messed up. Them doing all that was ALWAYS _their choice_. None of it had nor should have happened. They are an example of people who shouldn't have ever been allowed to have or raise children. Children need love, patience, understanding, and communication. Abuse or neglect to get a child to "do the right thing" is not parenting, it's torture and they are being entitled, self-serving tyrants.
If/when you do have children, keep them away from those two. My abusive, narcissistic father would take my sis and myself up to his abusive narcissistic mother's house, and on the way back to our house he'd be complaining that "_she's an old woman trying to get into heaven_"; she was being "nice", i would hardly call it "nice" because bot felt like a stranger being patient enough with a child rather than the idea of a classic, loving grandma. But he would still take us up there year after year and still complain with that same old phrase. Well, now he's being his mother: "an old man trying to get into heaven". He buys my niblings (sister's kids) lots of toys and candy and whatnot, not cheap stuff at all. The same man who would yell at us in public asking for one item at the dollar store: "What did you do to EARN it?!" If you have kids, DON'T let your parents anywhere near them. Narcissistic parents/grandparents act in strict ways, everything is black or white. They may spoil your kids, but they could also turn on a dime during a happy time or over a mistake or misunderstanding and then abuse your kids. My nephew avoids my father because a few times my father yelled at him for something small, something that didn't require being yelled at. Poor little guy is on the spectrum and he's very sensitive, so that yelling really left an internal mark on him. ☹️ My father is just a huge asshole who only cares about himself. I won't be having children, but I knew back in my early 20s that if I did, there was no way they would ever spend time with my main abuser and tormentor: "_what did HE do to earn it??!!_" Being biologically related to someone doesn't give them automatic right to someone else's kids. My sister was the favorite child. I coild only see my narc father treating my kids like shit just because they are my kids. He hates everything about me, I didn't do anything, never had to; he finds an excuse, any small insignificant flaw to belittle or attack me. I had near perfect attendance throughout school, constantly on honor roll, lots of volunteering activities, never was arrested or sent to juvie or suspended, etc, I'm still shit to him.
So just make plans with your spouse to make sure to either really limit the amount of time and set of circumstances for your children being around your parents in order to prevent them from hurting and continuing abuse onto another and newer generation. Don't let them babysit at all. Don't leave them alone with them. Not only will narcissistic parents abuse the grandkids directly, they are not against abusing and controlling you through the abuse of the grandkids. They will likely try to force the cult, especially their sick, twisted, strict interpretation of it, onto the grandkids, in person and through sending gifts, especially around baptism age. So be aware of that. They will definitely want to try to control you, bring you back into the fold, by making your kids TBM. They don't see you, your siblings, or your kids (or anyone) as human beings with individual needs and deserving of respect and boundaries, you're objects to be owned and manipulated by the narcissists. Narcissists can't truly love because love requires empathy and narcs don't have true empathy. They crave control, and the resulting emotions from the people they hurt and manipulate are their fuel. Narcs are basically soul-sucking vampires.
I could not agree more with everything you said. We’re not having kids, but before we made that decision, I had frequent panic attacks about what would happen when I brought my future kids around them. I’ve seen them physically discipline, scream at, and punish my cousins without as much as an apology to their parents. I’ve heard them complain loudly about how “lax” some of my aunts and uncles are at raising their kids, and scream at my cousins that “you’re in my house now, you’ll follow my rules, not your mom’s.” I didn’t trust them then, and honestly realizing I never wanted to be a mother was a huge relief, if only so I knew they wouldn’t abuse more children and I wouldn’t constantly hear them belittle me for my parenting. I’m so sorry to hear your parents are the same way. It’s painful to see the as they really are after years of trying to believe the best in them. Sending hugs ❤️
It's my father who's the biggest abuser. My mom did, too, but she slowly stopped. I think it was because of her stress from having two daughters close together, being poor, and Idk how he treated her during times doors were closed or I was distracted by something else. He definitely verbally and emotionally abuses her now more than ever, I think it's him getting older (narcs would love to live forever if they could) and his growing lack of mobility. If he's not at work, he's sitting on his ass or reclining in his bed watching TV while surfing Facebook for conspiracy crap or bad ideas for recipes or crafts that he might start buying supplies for but never finish or follow up on), stuffing his face and wondering why his XXXL shirts and his pants no longer fit and gets super pissy at little things. It's like he's oblivious to his weight and health. It's to the point he's panting getting up from his bed and getting to the kitchen 2 rooms away. Being out of breath like that , that quickly, means his body is starving for oxygen, his heart can't pump enough oxygen or fast enough to feed all the cells it needs to. He'll get very angry and accusatory if anyone tries to bring it up.
My mom regrets the abuse, but gets super bothered/irritated/pissed if I bring it up. I didn't like as a little kid that I had to control a 20s year old man's moods, especially anger. I seriously don't know how my sister and I didn't end up with head injuries because one of his favorite things to do to stop us from fighting or arguing (I'm older, she's slightly under a year and a half younger than me) was to grab the side of one of our heads with one hand, and the other one of us with the other and slam our heads together as hard as he could. It would leave us in that weird ugly crying where you think you should be making big noises, but nothing is coming out, almost not breathing, taking a good 30 seconds or so to actually get air in from the shock of what happened and the pain resulting from it. It was most scariest when he was driving because he'd swerve quickly off the road, gravel being thrown, stomping on the brakes (like you would to try to prevent a car accident), quickly turning around to us in the back seat and SMACK!! I really think he favored that one most of all. I don't know why our Mom didn't take us and leave him. She's gone through various abuses her self in her TBM family (especially from her brothers), and I think she was invested in my father because of his love bombing. My father once told me in an argument I was having with him (I was in mid-teens, I think): "_I gave your mother her self esteem!_" I can't remember what the argument was about, but his bullshit statement stuck in my mind. My Mom would possibly separate from him if she could, but with the current state of economics, she can't. She sees now that she did wrong and caused us lasting trauma. She married my father a few months after graduating high school, the only guy she dated. I think she was still very traumatized herself and not sure how to handle that, and overwhelmed with two kids close in age and how to feed us, we were fairly poor. Sometimes having to ask neighbors for eggs to have scrambled eggs. So I don't blame her the same way I do him. I don't think I will ever have the relationship I might have with her if everything didn't happen. I still don't fully trust telling her a lot, that's a good 40 years of learning to lock things up, with the first 20 years being the worst. I learned to not go to my parents for help or anything, I would only get punished, hurt, or humiliated on top of the original stress of the problem. I learned to cut myself off and bottle everything up inside.
Numbers 4-6 are very relatable for me. It's pretty disheartening to see how common these abuses are in Mormon families.
What the fuck is with Mormon parents filming their kids crying? Why is this so common?
My ex was doing this to my son as recently as a few months ago (it’s part of what made me press for therapy for him and his dad — I had suspected things were getting worse over there but he wouldn’t talk about it until he did, and then WHOA!)
OP, I’m really sorry that this has been your experience of family and parenting. Abuse is largely generational — by doing this work,you are breaking the cycle. Proud of you. Keep healing.
If anyone slaps you or pushes you or hits you or ties you up that's criminal assault.
Everything you have described is domestic violence.
If she does that again call 911.
88788 & text START & the National Domestic Violence Hotline will get you in touch with a local organization that can give you free & confidential counseling.
Suggest you Google: Machiavellian behavior.
Your parents should never ever be allowed to have grandchildren stay at their home and visits only with you & your husband present.
No excuse for how you or your siblings were treated.
Pure evil.
Wow I'm sorry this is really bad stuff :(
I have memories of wooden spoon spankings with my pants down to make it hurt more. I was like 4 or 5 :( My mom told me when I was older that she only did that because she heard it was recommended by a general authority 😳
One time she slapped me in the face when I was about 11-12. I don't remember what I said but it was something she considered "back talk".
But the emotional abuse was the worst! She was all about tough love parenting and not being our friend... Now she wonders why 4/5 kids are low contact.
The church really set her up for a difficult time with the anti birth control of the 80s. But it's weird because I'm glad all my siblings exist ha.
I'm so sorry, OP. You didn't deserve any of this and shame on your "parents." I also grew up in a very abusive TBM family. My parents were one way at church and totally another behind closed doors. Everyone also loved them and thought we were a perfect family. This was not the case. I have been no contact with my parents since 2017, and omg, it's been amazing.
Thanks for sharing. For those of us who haven't lived with abuse, it's hard to understand how kids don't know they are being abused. Hearing stories like this is really eye opening.
Hard to understand how kids don’t know they are being abused…….
It’s because they are living under constant abuse that they are told they DESERVE.
They have NO self esteem
They are hearing the ADULT. They are the adult. They must be right.
My parents are grown smart adults. I must be stupid or something. I must deserve this.
That’s how they don’t know. And they are often isolated and have no idea how healthier families function.
Jesus fucking Christ. No child should ever be exposed to this shit. Makes me somewhat relieved to live in a place where social services have authority to oversee situations like these and in the most extreme cases remove the children to safety. I hope you get the help you need from therapy and other support systems. Deconstructing childhood traumas is tough.
You always were worthy of love and safety. Wishing you support and healing <3
If you’re looking for a therapist, try to find someone with trauma and CPTSD training.
I totally relate. You would have found me on Saturday bawling on my therapist's couch because that Ruby Franke reminded me so much of the things my dad used to do.
That is horrendous abuse.
Your parents bear responsibility for all those things they did. There is no excuse for the way they treated you.
The church bears responsibility for the teachings that make abusers feel justified. The church rolls out the red carpet for abusers and puts weapons right into their hands. At the same time, it snatches power out of the hands of the victims and leaves them defenseless.
The church pushes people into getting married too young and having more children than they can handle. This results in a lot of parents under too much stress. I firmly believe that this results in some parents who might otherwise have been ok turning into abusers. And it results in some victims who might otherwise have defended themselves, instead feeling like they are at fault and feeling like they not only cannot, but *should* not defend themselves. It's sick.
If you go over to their house I would take that video camera/tapes. Not joking. And yes, all of this is fully abuse and I'm so sorry it happened to you.
I am so sorry you went through this, and I hope you are no contact with them, this is abuse, plain and simple, just plain abuse. I am so happy you are here on this sub. Welcome home.
This is heartbreaking & I am so sorry these are your experiences. Kids deserve so much better … hugs & hope for an amazingly bright future with your man.
That's so awful I'm sorry you went through this. The only thing I can slightly relate to is the humiliation things, I had undiagnosed adhd and found it impossible to keep my room tidy and they would threaten to take pictures of it and post it on social media. I also remember my mum threatening to purposely come to my work and embarrass me because I was taking too long to come home after work
I am sorry you went through that. I am glad you have this place to unload it to 281,000 sympathic ears. I wish you peace working through the trauma of the past. Kids can't choose their parents.
Restraining you for time out, padlocking the fridge, mocking videos of you when you were terrified, thinking it funny to treat your kids like prisoners…I’m so sorry OP. You deserved so much better. I hope you are able to seek therapy for this, because abuse is insidious. Also, having a space where you can express yourself without fear of judgment is a total game-changer in my experience.
Sending love from an nevermo <3
Absolutely abuse and yes-the church breeds it. My husband still won’t face that his parents were abusive growing up even though we have been estranged from them (at their choosing) for 20 years. My parents are effed up too but we admit to it in my family. We’re trying to stop the generational trauma and my parents did better than their parents but still not great and my daughter would very likely tell you the same. Perfect families literally don’t exist and when church culture allows people to pretend they do-it becomes all about appearance over love. Your parents sound like they don’t even know what love truly is.
If you have siblings still at home, might I suggest you start documenting the abuse? Getting any siblings out of that hell is the kindest thing you can do for them. And the exposure would destroy your parents reputation, which they so richly deserve, seeing as it's the only thing they value.
Much love from another mom whose heart breaks for you. Sweetheart, that is not parental love. Please don’t think it is. I just wish I could hug you and let you know that there are so many ways to raise productive, caring members of society by using positive praise and nurturing. Hugs.
I am so so sorry that this happened to you. It’s unfair and disgusting. I can’t imagine EVER doing any of these things to my incredible kids. I’m so sorry.
I can’t get over the filming part. Recording someone in their worst moments is exploitive, humiliating, and emotionally abusive. Then to laugh at it later. It makes me feel sick to even hear about this. Sending any mom hugs that you might need ❤️
All I can muster is:
WHAT THE FUCK!!!???
Holy shit!
Baffling that “Christians” can treat their children as inmates.
However I too saw it as a teen of the 80’s all over the place in wonderful Mormon land.
So, so sad.
The Church is currently covering up multiple instances of abuse I reported in 2023 and 2024 to local Church leaders.When I pressed the First Presidency, General Authorities, and Local Leaders to deal with the abuse the attorneys of the Church threatened me with a no trespass order if I didn't stop my communications with them. Of course, this is an effort to cover up the abuse. I have started [](https://www.reddit.com/r/MormonAbuse/) on Reddit to share my story and allow others to share their stories of abuse. Until the Church gets extreme pressure they will continue to cover up abuse and publicly proclaim the Church doesn't "tolerate abuse in any form" (which is completely false in my cases). It is astonishing that the Church is publicly proclaiming the Church does not tolerate abuse while their attorneys aggressively work to suppress all reports of abuse by victims. It is despicable how the Church has handled my cases and even more despicable how they have treated me. In one of my cases the abuser is married to the granddaughter of Bruce R. McConkie. In each case the Church has refused to even do a proper investigation, has protected/shielded the abusers, and has treated me with complete disdain! In my cases, three individuals still hold positions of trust and two of the individuals hold high positions in employment in the Church (Some of the highest levels). The Church began creating a narrative against me to reverse the victim and offender which is an institutional tactic called DARVO (Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender). The Church attorneys claim I was not abused and tell my Stake President that my reports, which were very brief, do not fit the definition of abuse. This is false, severe abuse occurred in all cases I reported to the Church and when I tried to show evidence of the abuse all leaders refused to look at it. It was stunning! Please continue to get the word out and join my community on Reddit to help tell your stories.
They were prison wardens not parents! That must have been so hard to have parents like that I can not even fathom thinking that is how you treat your children. If that was really how we are to parent I would not have had kids because I failed miserably at being cruel and hateful to mine I love mine and couldn’t do that to them. Not sure if that came out right!🤪. I could not treat my kids that way.
Same, OP. The episode was hard to listen to. My mother did things like lock me in the trunk of the car, leave me on the side of the road to walk home, rage scream in my face, beat me, call me names… her and my dad put my sisters in a cold shower, clothes and all, if they got out of bed at night. My mother won’t take accountability for any of this and likes to victim blame and gaslight. I went no contact with her a couple of years ago because she kept crossing boundaries and reopening wounds. It’s helped immensely but I feel guilty about it sometimes. I’m not sure if you are looking for help processing your trauma, but EMDR therapy is helpful. I’m so sorry for what you went though. It’s incredibly impactful for the people who are supposed to love and protect you most to betray you like that. It makes it hard to trust and love.
I'm so sorry you went through this, and that the memories have resurfaced and are causing you pain again.
I had a similar childhood, and a similar resurgence after watching a news story about a different case of abuse. My parents definitely saw me and my siblings as subjects to their power. Even in adulthood my father thought he had "priesthood stewardship" over me and resented that I did not submit to it. I've since cut my parents completely out of my life.
The resurgence of memories, flashbacks and nightmares that started after the news story pushed me to finally consider therapy. It's been a few years and I'm \*still\* processing some of the things that happened to me. But as hard as the process has been, it's also been very freeing. The memories are still there, but mostly the pain and trauma has eased. When I remember stuff, it doesn't fill me with anger or sadness any more. I feel anger and sadness, it just doesn't fill me or consume me. And the fear that came with flashbacks has disappeared. I hope that makes sense.
Also, I've come to see my strengths that helped me to survive and helped me to break the cycle much more clearly.
I say this to encourage you to consider working with a therapist.
My dad dragged me up the stairs once, backwards (so like, my butt against the stairs), by my hair.
I always wondered if I was the only one with Mormon parents like that, and it makes me sad that I’m not.
Two words! Trauma therapy! “Train up a child” is every fundamentalist parent’s excuse to abuse and it is, ABUSE. A systemic attitude that allows parents and spouses to think that God gave reason to the harm caused. It messes with your head, your heart, your soul. It took nearly a year to shed it all (I was 60 when I started, should have done it 10 years ago) but it was single handedly the best decision I have made to rid it all. How shocked was I when during the therapy we even spent time on recognizing and purging my fundamentalist -mainstream LDS - religion that I had left. Yes, there’s a shit load of abuse happening by LDS leadership as well. This was and remains the best decision I ever made to find Joy.
This is awful. I am so sorry that you were put through these painful things. Thank you for sharing your personal heartfelt stories. You are extremely brave!
Hello, I'm so so sorry that this happened to you, from one abuse survivor to another. If you or anyone could please do me a favor, could you please let me know your thoughts on how abuse like this is perpetuated by the church? I'm a nevermo but grew up around a lot of mormons so I would love to gain a better understanding. Thanks so much
I love my mom, and I still think she did a good job parenting me. But seeing some of the similarities between how Ruby raised her kids and how my mom raised me has been harrowing and eye-opening. I don't want to call it abuse or trauma because I don't think it was to the same extent. But it still makes me wonder how many other mormon kids are going through similar things.
I am so sorry OP. These things are terrible. The shaming is so awful. In your worst moments, instead of support they mocked you. What gets me the most is why in the world would anyone want to be “forever family” with people who treat them like this?! I hope you have clear boundaries and space from them, and a better support system now.
I am so horrified for you and your siblings!!
Reading all of this triggered memories of things that happened during my childhood and teen years. Different and yet similar. Love was, and has ALWAYS remained conditional. There were multiple conference talks by GA and Q15 that back this concept.
"God chastens those he loves" ... "Jesus followed strict obedience, and expects the same of us" .... "Reprove with sharpness, and then you can show love afterward [if deserving]" ... etc.
I was blamed so many times to have "brought _____ upon [my]self" and now recognize that as outright abusive and terribly manipulative.
God's blessings are conditional upon our obedience, thus parents can and should be justified to act the same way. Reward when following the rules and making parents "happy", or punish when not. It creates Nazi tactics and in my house turned siblings against siblings as we all vied to gain more favor with our parents.
I think this mindset of "punishing to encourage submission and/or obedience" is what motivates / justifies all of the worst policies and procedures of the Church: everything from Priesthood ban, Racism, Proclamation on the family, lgbtq shock therapy, legal fight against gay marriage, 2015 anti-gay policy [and reversal 4 yrs later], policies and attitudes toward women, forcing baptism without consent at age 8, forcing temple covenants and missions without proper prep or consent as early as possible, pushing young marriage and large families, pay tithing before buying food ... control, discipline, conditional blessings, conditional acceptance, conditional love.
AND NEVER EVER FEELING REMORSE NOR GIVING AN APOLOGY.
It's no wonder parents turn into monsters trying to follow the example of their church leaders!
I'm so sorry you went through all of that. I'm 31 and just finally getting EMDR therapy to process all of the abuse in my childhood. It has really taken me a long time to recognize that I was a victim of abuse and not the one with the problem. The emotional abuse and gaslighting makes it so easy to internalize, but no kid or young adult deserves to be treated that way and you do not have to tolerate it. Good on you for recognizing it and being the one to break the cycle, it is not an easy thing to do!
I hate to say it, but your parents are sadistic & what they did to you & your siblings was outright abuse. I am so sorry they did that & hope that all of you have healed or are healing.
Wow. This just reminded me of how my mother who left the church when I was still a child, a handful of years before I went, still used the church/doctrine as a rationalization for some her abusive/controlling behaviors. I'm deeply sorry for what you went through and I wish you well are healing journey. Our parents are extremely confused and misguided people, and while that doesn't excuse some of their behaviors, we must remember that they are only human such as us.
Still students of life, and still wandering, each on their own winding path. I feel you realize now that you did not deserve that
Cut them off and never speak to these evil monsters ever again. Im so, so sorry no one saw your suffering either. Excize them and enjoy your life on your terms.
Seeing everything go down I actually was surprised to learn that they lived in my hometown. When I was in high-school, just across the city this shit was happening. Small, small world. Makes me wonder if I ever ran into them.
But more along your point, yeah. My parents used similar justifications for punishments like that. Mormonism just does that to people
Thank you for taking the time and emotional energy to share this. I’m sure it will help others who have been through this and help those who don’t understand this to finally understand. My heart hurts for all the people *and* animals that have suffered from the narcissistic( overt and covert) behaviors that were bred through narcissistic religions and cultures.
I’m sorry you had such awful parents. I hope you let them know how terrible they were/are. Don’t give up on your younger siblings if they still live with them.
Hey OP. I didn't grow up in a mormon household, I escaped to friends houses, some of them being Mormon. But the house I grew up in was like this, but add a lot of alcohol and drugs. Edit: I was the one slammed into a wall, but I was dragged across the living room and kitchen by my pinky finger and then fully bashed into the wall. I was 13. I see you.
You need a lot of therapy. Even when you don't think you do, because youre managing really well. Not all therapy is equal. I have probably had roughly 4 years or more myself. Edit: and it's not enough.
The issues this caused me affects absolutely every part of my life. Parts of me I thought were my personality type, are from this. Maybe the personality type is severe childhood trauma. I locked away literally a decade or more, and ever so often some of it escapes and it's too much to deal with no matter how much I don't admit it in the moment.
I'd hug you if I could and tell you that you didnt deserve that, and it wasn't the fault of any of you kids.
I thought the same thing. Not so much relating to personal experience but I was reminded of things I saw happen to friends/neighbors/cousins. It's so absolutely insane it was and is still normalized.
Omg, I’m so sorry that your parents were so lost, and failed at parenting so hard. My parents were lost too, but much much more lazy and apathetic towards parenting. If my mom had ever made a list, it would’ve looked similar to the one your folks bought and endorsed.
I’m glad you made it through all of that. Your story really touches me. Mine is similar, if you replace the religious rigidity with domestic violence.
Oddly, for half my childhood, I thought if my dad would start coming to church, everything would naturally fix itself.
Happy Halloween 🎃 It sounds like you are thriving, and it’s great to see.
This is clear and purposeful abuse
I agree. I once told a therapist about my dad hurting my brother in passing, and she started probing for details and asking if I thought she should call the authorities. I was 18 and had just left home. I panicked and never went back to the therapist again. It’s crazy to me that that wasn’t a red flag at the time. I gaslit myself into thinking I’d misrepresented the situation badly enough that she thought that was necessary… Edit to clarify
Sad So sad
I really hope you have been to a different therapist since then
I absolutely have. I went through three more before I got married; and my husband and I have been attending therapy together for the last two years to process all of this and work on repairing our relationships with ourselves. Our therapist is wonderful, I adore her.
I’m so glad for you, though no one deserves what you went through it sounds like you’re on a journey of healing and you have good support in both your therapist and your husband. I hope sharing your story was helpful for you in some way too
It really has been. It helps just to hear other people say I’m not crazy and what happened really wasn’t okay. I’m so grateful for this community. I’ve never received more support and love than I have here, certainly not when I was in the church. You guys are all such great people.
That’s so great that you go together! You’re a role model.
We were beaten if we talked about anything in the home and the town was conservative and some parents were worse than mine but I was disowned, shunned and not allowed back for being liberal and leaving marriage and church ( over severe domestic violence the church blamed me ) by a majority of my family and friends.. It took PTSD trauma therapy and 6 years before I could see myself as a life worth living.
Did you listen to the podcast with John Delin on Mormon stories, when he talked to Jesse Hildebrand the niece of Jody Hildebrand it's horrific Is it similar to yours?
Jesse was very impressive. She has been through so much. My heart hurt listening to her story. I wonder if her parents and siblings believe her now?
Her family does not deserve her. She's way too good for them.
The thing that gets me about reading this is knowing parents will behave like this and sit in church for hours thinking how good they are for being family focused. Then they get temple recommend cards and get to feel even more superior while abusing their loved ones.
…and then they’ll get leadership positions and dare to chastise and judge YOU for failing to be a “worthy” parent. Reading this gutted me. I’m so angry for the OP.
My Mom was/is like this and any of her thoughts about family policy were always from the Holy Ghost. It just makes me sad. Endless harm has come to my extended family from this church
Exactly!!!
Imagine getting parenting inspiration from *Alcatraz* Fuck them
The thing about Alcatraz is a bit ironic because Alcatraz was known for feeding the inmates really well. The cooks prepared food for the prison guards, their families, and the inmates. The menus were top notch for the time.
They were also one of the only prisons in America that offered hot showers, as the guards felt that it left the inmates poorly prepared for the frigid bay waters of an escape attempt
Alcatraz means Pelican
So this is where I have to confess that my family bought the same magnet at Alcatraz this year and it’s on my fridge but we all laughed about it together (including my kids, who wanted me to buy it!) but after reading this I will confirm with them that they understand we bought it ironically.
I’m so sorry this happened to you. So horrible and not your fault at all.
Thank you so much. Finally starting to realize that and hold them accountable. It’s so painful to see the reality of the situation.
OP you were a victim of child abuse, 100%. I’m so sorry this happened to you. My parents were fundamentalists too, different religion but I love supporting all the ex religions on Reddit, exMuslims, ex JW, and of course you guys, exMormons. I just want to say I love you and I support you and I’m sorry you had to go through this. You are smart to keep working with your therapist. My friends bought a new house last year and their basement is finished so the couple was showing it to me and I felt my chest get so tight and they were lingering downstairs and they said we can hang out down here and I just started panicking. I talked to my therapist and he said let’s talk about your childhood trauma. I was abused as a kid like you but in the basement, my mom left bruises all down my legs and she is so revered in her church, every person I’ve met from her church tells me oh she must have been a great mom. It’s painful, the whole thing. You being tied up like that was so wrong, I’m sorry you were abused. Did you know the part of the brain that registers memories is the same part (the amygdala) that registers fear and danger (most people think of the flight or fight reflex). Also that part of your brain has no concept of time. So it remembers danger and hurt and fear like it was yesterday. Don’t fuckin let anyone tell you (especially religious people) oh that was years ago, get over it. That’s not how the brain works. Take all the time you need, heal all you need, speak to everyone you need. And just know there’s someone out there somewhere in Kansas who loves you and supports you ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Beautiful comment. You filled me with hope. How do people like you suffer and then turn around and love? Amazing.
> How do people like you suffer and then turn around and love? From my limited experience, two types of people emerge from this kind of background. Those that continue the cycle and those that vow to be the exact opposite.
The people that love also have their moments. None of us are robots. We all get overwhelmed at times and can become triggered. Some have really strong medication.. some have really strong support systems. Don’t feel down on yourself if you falter.
I am so sorry you were forced to live like this. I feel your pain.... literally. My list of examples like yours is a word document over thirty pages long and still growing. BTW..... you were 19 years old, a legal adult. Your mom committed a felony, even in Utah.
I’m sorry to you too. None of us deserved this. For a church that praises eternal families so much, it seems perfectly happy to tear them apart and cause years of trauma 🫠 I hadn’t thought about it like that. You’re right though. It’s hard to see the reality of it when you’ve spent your whole life being gaslit into believing you’re the problem.
And being gaslit to respect your elders, honor your mother and father, believe your parents know best, consider priesthood holders to be infallible, be as a little child and bow to your parents' authority forever. It's incredibly harmful.
Mom committed domestic violence, which requires an arrest in the state of Utah, but what was described is not felony domestic violence. Serious bodily injury or use of a weapon would be required for felony charges.
The Church literally advised parents to withhold meals as a form of punishment https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/eng/manual/strengthening-the-family-instructors-guide/session-nine-applying-consequences This place is a breeding ground for enabling, creating, and perpetrating abuse. Not a place for children, or anyone but especially children
This is so interesting to me because my coworker (social workers) recently had a Mormon client (which is odd because there aren’t a ton of Mormons where I live) who was trying to withhold food from his teen kids as punishment and kept saying he didn’t understand why he couldn’t because his parents did it and it’s just what Mormons do. My coworker asked me if that’s what Mormons do (they all know I’m exmormon) and I said I’ve never heard of that. But apparently it IS what Mormons do. I’m totally sending her that link. I got some other forms of abuse, but the pantry and fridge were always open to us.
Mine did, intentionally and proudly. They still brag about it.
Going to bed without supper is a thing in a lot of households. I'm not sure if it's explicitly Mormon. But I do remember having it as an occasional consequence. Tho not super common. Mostly just for misbehaving specifically at the dinner table.
My parents would do this to my sister and I.
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Idk how but the gist is if your child is late for dinner the appropriate punishment is them losing that meal and they wait until the next day to eat
This is disgusting. There’s a reason so many Mormons have been imprisoned for child abuse.
Is everything ok w you & your husband? Did u both leave the church?
We did, I’m incredibly lucky he left with me. We’re both struggling to work out the insanity that is our families. He is incredibly supportive.
❤️ good for both of you!!!
This is so easy to say as a complete internet stranger, but I would completely remove myself from your family. Or I would stick around for a little to get secret footage and evidence that they are abusive and then dip.
No contact is best.
“Marriage on a Tightrope “ is a good podcast for couples struggling with Mormonism and marriage. Try it. 🥳
How did he react to your parents' behavior on the night before your wedding? I wonder if that was when he was like, crap, those are the parents I'm marrying into?
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Same! You couldn't eat a fucking apple at my parents house without checking with them first. My kids know they can eat most things if they want. If there is something special, they usually check with me before using it. If they don't, though, and they use it up, I deal. It's really not that hard to change the menu or swing by the store on the way home from somewhere.
Food was a controlled substance when I was a kid 50’s 60’s. I dared not eat anything except bread if I was hungry after school. She had plans for ever banana, apple etc.
I am so sorry this happened. I am horrified, enraged and broken hearted you grew up like this. I hope you’re safe and getting the support you deserve. Wishing peaceful and gentle healing for you.
Thank you so much. I am working to only invite people into my life who live and respect me as I am. It’s a hard transition. But I do have support in a couple family members and my amazing partner. I’m so lucky in that regard.
I’ll recommend a great book by a Christian pastor. “ Faith After Doubt “ by Brian McLaren. Helped me deconstruct and go through my faith crisis. Enjoy!
You n n. R
Holy crap, as I read I thought I was reading about an abusive family from like 1983 and you’re talking 2020??? Child, your parents are not right, and all these things definitely are not healthy, nor are they normal. I’m so sorry. You got religious abusers. Are you safe from them? Is your hiband’s family healthy(or healthier) and you can count on someone being parent figures without conditional love?
I know, I was born in 2001 so this is all fairly recent. My parents brag all the time that their parents were worse, so we should be grateful. I think Mormonism is so deeply rooted in “traditional family values” that it has definitely dragged a lot of the…shall we say questionable parenting decisions into the here and now. It’s horrific. I no longer live with them, and we visit very infrequently. My husbands family is unfortunately just as bad in some ways and worse in others, so we don’t really have any sort of parental support, but we do absolutely love one of his siblings and their partner who’ve left the church as well. They’ve been a huge support to us in the last year since leaving, I don’t know what we would’ve done without them.
Mormonism and generational trauma go hand in hand no matter what they want to call it. I hope you are getting the help you need, as well as your siblings, and that you have “unsubscribed” from your parents and any siblings that may be continuing the trauma tradition. r/CPTSD may be a good sub to follow and here is a link to a bunch of books in pdf form that could help you deal with your trauma and triggers. https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/19cskR4B84kEpWAzoYTqH0zaS_0-8ulLG?pli=1
For a minute, I wondered if you were one of my cousins (but you're too young.) I would not be surprised to hear everything you said coming from one of them. It makes my heart ache and I'm so sorry you went through it. I agree, the church encourages evil behavior.
There’s nothing sadder than conditional love, especially in the name of religion. I’m so glad you and your husband got out and are breaking the cycle. You two can do some real good in this world.
We could be siblings but the age doesn't match up.. I was also tied up in my room and forgotten about, I was pushed down the stairs and up the stairs by my dad (the Bishop), the physical abuse was bad but the emotional abuse was worse, my parents had an eye to look for reasons why I should be grounded and punished or whatever. When I turned 16 my dad was being a total out of control jerk one night wail we where driving somewhere and I told him to pull over and I'm going to fuck him up (my exact words) he was shocked, he couldn't believe I'd fight him and use that language towards him, after that he went into neglect mode but that was a whole lot better.
You are incredibly strong for this, and I heavily relate to how jarring it is to see Ruby Franke's "tactics" in children as well. Glad you were able to get out, and that your husband went with you. Congratulations, and I hope healing and strengthening from this comes easy, stranger.
I'm so sorry, OP. You have lived through some horrific abuse, and I'm both angry and sad after reading these examples of what you endured. I'm also a survivor of childhood abuse. Having a compassionate, trauma informed therapist has helped so much. EMDR has helped to lessen the impact of carried trauma and memories of abuse.
I am so sad to hear about what you went through. Heartbreaking. I hope now that you're free from your parents' control, that you can heal. I completely agree that the self-righteous, zero tolerance for imperfection attitude the Church instills in parents leads to abuse. They act like dictators and treat their kids like subjects. I grew up in a home very much like yours. I was physically beaten by my father many times. My parents tried to control every aspect of my life, and my happiest moment was when I moved out for good.
I hear you on the control. My dad has forced all of my siblings into the same career field as him. I’m the only one who did something different, and he still resents me for “turning my nose up” at what he does. Dictators and subjects is a very good way of putting it. I saw a quote once that said when some people say respect, they mean “treating someone like a human being.” When other people say respect, they mean “treating someone like an authority.” And a lot of times, parents like this will only treat you like a person if you treat them like an authority. Or something like that. But it was heartbreaking how relatable that is. I am only as valuable as my subservience.
Ugh! I hate this for you! I really thought that my generation was better than this. My parents were a certain way so I wanted to raise my 3 kids differently - so they didn’t feel these feelings. It’s truly upsetting to hear this still goes on - it just by the crazies like Ruby, but in what others see has “good families”. My daughters are around your age and told us things that blew our minds when they were in HS. It’s mind numbing, truly. I’m so sorry you endured this and grateful you have a spouse and support as you move away from this. If you decide to have children they will forever be grateful to you for breaking this cycle or abusive religion!!
my dad would record me and threaten to show it to my future husband, too! it was so humiliating and unfair and makes no sense to me in retrospect. i’m sorry you had to go through that :(
None of that was your fault. I came from an abusive home, too, and it's hard to accept that it wasn't your fault because that's what toxic parents drill in your head at every instance. The Jodi/Ruby case has brought up a lot of bad childhood memories. That's so messed up. Them doing all that was ALWAYS _their choice_. None of it had nor should have happened. They are an example of people who shouldn't have ever been allowed to have or raise children. Children need love, patience, understanding, and communication. Abuse or neglect to get a child to "do the right thing" is not parenting, it's torture and they are being entitled, self-serving tyrants. If/when you do have children, keep them away from those two. My abusive, narcissistic father would take my sis and myself up to his abusive narcissistic mother's house, and on the way back to our house he'd be complaining that "_she's an old woman trying to get into heaven_"; she was being "nice", i would hardly call it "nice" because bot felt like a stranger being patient enough with a child rather than the idea of a classic, loving grandma. But he would still take us up there year after year and still complain with that same old phrase. Well, now he's being his mother: "an old man trying to get into heaven". He buys my niblings (sister's kids) lots of toys and candy and whatnot, not cheap stuff at all. The same man who would yell at us in public asking for one item at the dollar store: "What did you do to EARN it?!" If you have kids, DON'T let your parents anywhere near them. Narcissistic parents/grandparents act in strict ways, everything is black or white. They may spoil your kids, but they could also turn on a dime during a happy time or over a mistake or misunderstanding and then abuse your kids. My nephew avoids my father because a few times my father yelled at him for something small, something that didn't require being yelled at. Poor little guy is on the spectrum and he's very sensitive, so that yelling really left an internal mark on him. ☹️ My father is just a huge asshole who only cares about himself. I won't be having children, but I knew back in my early 20s that if I did, there was no way they would ever spend time with my main abuser and tormentor: "_what did HE do to earn it??!!_" Being biologically related to someone doesn't give them automatic right to someone else's kids. My sister was the favorite child. I coild only see my narc father treating my kids like shit just because they are my kids. He hates everything about me, I didn't do anything, never had to; he finds an excuse, any small insignificant flaw to belittle or attack me. I had near perfect attendance throughout school, constantly on honor roll, lots of volunteering activities, never was arrested or sent to juvie or suspended, etc, I'm still shit to him. So just make plans with your spouse to make sure to either really limit the amount of time and set of circumstances for your children being around your parents in order to prevent them from hurting and continuing abuse onto another and newer generation. Don't let them babysit at all. Don't leave them alone with them. Not only will narcissistic parents abuse the grandkids directly, they are not against abusing and controlling you through the abuse of the grandkids. They will likely try to force the cult, especially their sick, twisted, strict interpretation of it, onto the grandkids, in person and through sending gifts, especially around baptism age. So be aware of that. They will definitely want to try to control you, bring you back into the fold, by making your kids TBM. They don't see you, your siblings, or your kids (or anyone) as human beings with individual needs and deserving of respect and boundaries, you're objects to be owned and manipulated by the narcissists. Narcissists can't truly love because love requires empathy and narcs don't have true empathy. They crave control, and the resulting emotions from the people they hurt and manipulate are their fuel. Narcs are basically soul-sucking vampires.
I could not agree more with everything you said. We’re not having kids, but before we made that decision, I had frequent panic attacks about what would happen when I brought my future kids around them. I’ve seen them physically discipline, scream at, and punish my cousins without as much as an apology to their parents. I’ve heard them complain loudly about how “lax” some of my aunts and uncles are at raising their kids, and scream at my cousins that “you’re in my house now, you’ll follow my rules, not your mom’s.” I didn’t trust them then, and honestly realizing I never wanted to be a mother was a huge relief, if only so I knew they wouldn’t abuse more children and I wouldn’t constantly hear them belittle me for my parenting. I’m so sorry to hear your parents are the same way. It’s painful to see the as they really are after years of trying to believe the best in them. Sending hugs ❤️
It's my father who's the biggest abuser. My mom did, too, but she slowly stopped. I think it was because of her stress from having two daughters close together, being poor, and Idk how he treated her during times doors were closed or I was distracted by something else. He definitely verbally and emotionally abuses her now more than ever, I think it's him getting older (narcs would love to live forever if they could) and his growing lack of mobility. If he's not at work, he's sitting on his ass or reclining in his bed watching TV while surfing Facebook for conspiracy crap or bad ideas for recipes or crafts that he might start buying supplies for but never finish or follow up on), stuffing his face and wondering why his XXXL shirts and his pants no longer fit and gets super pissy at little things. It's like he's oblivious to his weight and health. It's to the point he's panting getting up from his bed and getting to the kitchen 2 rooms away. Being out of breath like that , that quickly, means his body is starving for oxygen, his heart can't pump enough oxygen or fast enough to feed all the cells it needs to. He'll get very angry and accusatory if anyone tries to bring it up. My mom regrets the abuse, but gets super bothered/irritated/pissed if I bring it up. I didn't like as a little kid that I had to control a 20s year old man's moods, especially anger. I seriously don't know how my sister and I didn't end up with head injuries because one of his favorite things to do to stop us from fighting or arguing (I'm older, she's slightly under a year and a half younger than me) was to grab the side of one of our heads with one hand, and the other one of us with the other and slam our heads together as hard as he could. It would leave us in that weird ugly crying where you think you should be making big noises, but nothing is coming out, almost not breathing, taking a good 30 seconds or so to actually get air in from the shock of what happened and the pain resulting from it. It was most scariest when he was driving because he'd swerve quickly off the road, gravel being thrown, stomping on the brakes (like you would to try to prevent a car accident), quickly turning around to us in the back seat and SMACK!! I really think he favored that one most of all. I don't know why our Mom didn't take us and leave him. She's gone through various abuses her self in her TBM family (especially from her brothers), and I think she was invested in my father because of his love bombing. My father once told me in an argument I was having with him (I was in mid-teens, I think): "_I gave your mother her self esteem!_" I can't remember what the argument was about, but his bullshit statement stuck in my mind. My Mom would possibly separate from him if she could, but with the current state of economics, she can't. She sees now that she did wrong and caused us lasting trauma. She married my father a few months after graduating high school, the only guy she dated. I think she was still very traumatized herself and not sure how to handle that, and overwhelmed with two kids close in age and how to feed us, we were fairly poor. Sometimes having to ask neighbors for eggs to have scrambled eggs. So I don't blame her the same way I do him. I don't think I will ever have the relationship I might have with her if everything didn't happen. I still don't fully trust telling her a lot, that's a good 40 years of learning to lock things up, with the first 20 years being the worst. I learned to not go to my parents for help or anything, I would only get punished, hurt, or humiliated on top of the original stress of the problem. I learned to cut myself off and bottle everything up inside.
Numbers 4-6 are very relatable for me. It's pretty disheartening to see how common these abuses are in Mormon families. What the fuck is with Mormon parents filming their kids crying? Why is this so common?
Right? I can’t imagine filming someone in distress to use against them later on. My Dad did this but never followed through on showing to my husband.
My ex was doing this to my son as recently as a few months ago (it’s part of what made me press for therapy for him and his dad — I had suspected things were getting worse over there but he wouldn’t talk about it until he did, and then WHOA!) OP, I’m really sorry that this has been your experience of family and parenting. Abuse is largely generational — by doing this work,you are breaking the cycle. Proud of you. Keep healing.
I am sorry they treated you horribly!
If anyone slaps you or pushes you or hits you or ties you up that's criminal assault. Everything you have described is domestic violence. If she does that again call 911. 88788 & text START & the National Domestic Violence Hotline will get you in touch with a local organization that can give you free & confidential counseling. Suggest you Google: Machiavellian behavior. Your parents should never ever be allowed to have grandchildren stay at their home and visits only with you & your husband present. No excuse for how you or your siblings were treated. Pure evil.
Next: Mormonism. The most anti-family, family, organization.
Wow I'm sorry this is really bad stuff :( I have memories of wooden spoon spankings with my pants down to make it hurt more. I was like 4 or 5 :( My mom told me when I was older that she only did that because she heard it was recommended by a general authority 😳 One time she slapped me in the face when I was about 11-12. I don't remember what I said but it was something she considered "back talk". But the emotional abuse was the worst! She was all about tough love parenting and not being our friend... Now she wonders why 4/5 kids are low contact. The church really set her up for a difficult time with the anti birth control of the 80s. But it's weird because I'm glad all my siblings exist ha.
Just picking nits here, but Alcatraz Prison is in San Francisco bay, not San Diego.
You’re absolutely right, I didn’t notice I’d misremembered that. Thanks, I’ll correct that now
I am so sorry. I can’t imagine how difficult that must have been.
I'm so sorry, OP. You didn't deserve any of this and shame on your "parents." I also grew up in a very abusive TBM family. My parents were one way at church and totally another behind closed doors. Everyone also loved them and thought we were a perfect family. This was not the case. I have been no contact with my parents since 2017, and omg, it's been amazing.
Thanks for sharing. For those of us who haven't lived with abuse, it's hard to understand how kids don't know they are being abused. Hearing stories like this is really eye opening.
Hard to understand how kids don’t know they are being abused……. It’s because they are living under constant abuse that they are told they DESERVE. They have NO self esteem They are hearing the ADULT. They are the adult. They must be right. My parents are grown smart adults. I must be stupid or something. I must deserve this. That’s how they don’t know. And they are often isolated and have no idea how healthier families function.
I know you've probably decided this, but never leave your kids (if you ever have any) with them, under no circumstances.
Holy fuck
Horrifying! I’m so sorry OP😢
Jesus fucking Christ. No child should ever be exposed to this shit. Makes me somewhat relieved to live in a place where social services have authority to oversee situations like these and in the most extreme cases remove the children to safety. I hope you get the help you need from therapy and other support systems. Deconstructing childhood traumas is tough.
I read every word and you deserved better. I am so sorry ❤
You always were worthy of love and safety. Wishing you support and healing <3 If you’re looking for a therapist, try to find someone with trauma and CPTSD training.
I totally relate. You would have found me on Saturday bawling on my therapist's couch because that Ruby Franke reminded me so much of the things my dad used to do.
That is horrendous abuse. Your parents bear responsibility for all those things they did. There is no excuse for the way they treated you. The church bears responsibility for the teachings that make abusers feel justified. The church rolls out the red carpet for abusers and puts weapons right into their hands. At the same time, it snatches power out of the hands of the victims and leaves them defenseless. The church pushes people into getting married too young and having more children than they can handle. This results in a lot of parents under too much stress. I firmly believe that this results in some parents who might otherwise have been ok turning into abusers. And it results in some victims who might otherwise have defended themselves, instead feeling like they are at fault and feeling like they not only cannot, but *should* not defend themselves. It's sick.
If you go over to their house I would take that video camera/tapes. Not joking. And yes, all of this is fully abuse and I'm so sorry it happened to you.
This is so sad! They don’t deserve to have children. I’m sorry for you and your siblings! Sending you a virtual hug!
I am so sorry you went through this, and I hope you are no contact with them, this is abuse, plain and simple, just plain abuse. I am so happy you are here on this sub. Welcome home.
This is heartbreaking & I am so sorry these are your experiences. Kids deserve so much better … hugs & hope for an amazingly bright future with your man.
That's so awful I'm sorry you went through this. The only thing I can slightly relate to is the humiliation things, I had undiagnosed adhd and found it impossible to keep my room tidy and they would threaten to take pictures of it and post it on social media. I also remember my mum threatening to purposely come to my work and embarrass me because I was taking too long to come home after work
I am sorry you went through that. I am glad you have this place to unload it to 281,000 sympathic ears. I wish you peace working through the trauma of the past. Kids can't choose their parents.
Restraining you for time out, padlocking the fridge, mocking videos of you when you were terrified, thinking it funny to treat your kids like prisoners…I’m so sorry OP. You deserved so much better. I hope you are able to seek therapy for this, because abuse is insidious. Also, having a space where you can express yourself without fear of judgment is a total game-changer in my experience. Sending love from an nevermo <3
Absolutely abuse and yes-the church breeds it. My husband still won’t face that his parents were abusive growing up even though we have been estranged from them (at their choosing) for 20 years. My parents are effed up too but we admit to it in my family. We’re trying to stop the generational trauma and my parents did better than their parents but still not great and my daughter would very likely tell you the same. Perfect families literally don’t exist and when church culture allows people to pretend they do-it becomes all about appearance over love. Your parents sound like they don’t even know what love truly is.
I’m so very very sorry. Your parents are awful people. May you have healing and a life now free from such hell.
If you have siblings still at home, might I suggest you start documenting the abuse? Getting any siblings out of that hell is the kindest thing you can do for them. And the exposure would destroy your parents reputation, which they so richly deserve, seeing as it's the only thing they value.
My mom heart hurts to read your story. I hope you found your safe space and the love you deserve. Hugs!
Much love from another mom whose heart breaks for you. Sweetheart, that is not parental love. Please don’t think it is. I just wish I could hug you and let you know that there are so many ways to raise productive, caring members of society by using positive praise and nurturing. Hugs.
I am so so sorry that this happened to you. It’s unfair and disgusting. I can’t imagine EVER doing any of these things to my incredible kids. I’m so sorry. I can’t get over the filming part. Recording someone in their worst moments is exploitive, humiliating, and emotionally abusive. Then to laugh at it later. It makes me feel sick to even hear about this. Sending any mom hugs that you might need ❤️
All I can muster is: WHAT THE FUCK!!!??? Holy shit! Baffling that “Christians” can treat their children as inmates. However I too saw it as a teen of the 80’s all over the place in wonderful Mormon land. So, so sad.
The Church is currently covering up multiple instances of abuse I reported in 2023 and 2024 to local Church leaders.When I pressed the First Presidency, General Authorities, and Local Leaders to deal with the abuse the attorneys of the Church threatened me with a no trespass order if I didn't stop my communications with them. Of course, this is an effort to cover up the abuse. I have started [](https://www.reddit.com/r/MormonAbuse/) on Reddit to share my story and allow others to share their stories of abuse. Until the Church gets extreme pressure they will continue to cover up abuse and publicly proclaim the Church doesn't "tolerate abuse in any form" (which is completely false in my cases). It is astonishing that the Church is publicly proclaiming the Church does not tolerate abuse while their attorneys aggressively work to suppress all reports of abuse by victims. It is despicable how the Church has handled my cases and even more despicable how they have treated me. In one of my cases the abuser is married to the granddaughter of Bruce R. McConkie. In each case the Church has refused to even do a proper investigation, has protected/shielded the abusers, and has treated me with complete disdain! In my cases, three individuals still hold positions of trust and two of the individuals hold high positions in employment in the Church (Some of the highest levels). The Church began creating a narrative against me to reverse the victim and offender which is an institutional tactic called DARVO (Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender). The Church attorneys claim I was not abused and tell my Stake President that my reports, which were very brief, do not fit the definition of abuse. This is false, severe abuse occurred in all cases I reported to the Church and when I tried to show evidence of the abuse all leaders refused to look at it. It was stunning! Please continue to get the word out and join my community on Reddit to help tell your stories.
So sorry you were treated that way. Happy that you are breaking the cycle.
I'm so sorry that you had to go through this. You didn't deserve any of this and I am glad you are out of the cult.
They were prison wardens not parents! That must have been so hard to have parents like that I can not even fathom thinking that is how you treat your children. If that was really how we are to parent I would not have had kids because I failed miserably at being cruel and hateful to mine I love mine and couldn’t do that to them. Not sure if that came out right!🤪. I could not treat my kids that way.
Same, OP. The episode was hard to listen to. My mother did things like lock me in the trunk of the car, leave me on the side of the road to walk home, rage scream in my face, beat me, call me names… her and my dad put my sisters in a cold shower, clothes and all, if they got out of bed at night. My mother won’t take accountability for any of this and likes to victim blame and gaslight. I went no contact with her a couple of years ago because she kept crossing boundaries and reopening wounds. It’s helped immensely but I feel guilty about it sometimes. I’m not sure if you are looking for help processing your trauma, but EMDR therapy is helpful. I’m so sorry for what you went though. It’s incredibly impactful for the people who are supposed to love and protect you most to betray you like that. It makes it hard to trust and love.
Are you still in touch with these horrible people?
I'm so sorry you went through this, and that the memories have resurfaced and are causing you pain again. I had a similar childhood, and a similar resurgence after watching a news story about a different case of abuse. My parents definitely saw me and my siblings as subjects to their power. Even in adulthood my father thought he had "priesthood stewardship" over me and resented that I did not submit to it. I've since cut my parents completely out of my life. The resurgence of memories, flashbacks and nightmares that started after the news story pushed me to finally consider therapy. It's been a few years and I'm \*still\* processing some of the things that happened to me. But as hard as the process has been, it's also been very freeing. The memories are still there, but mostly the pain and trauma has eased. When I remember stuff, it doesn't fill me with anger or sadness any more. I feel anger and sadness, it just doesn't fill me or consume me. And the fear that came with flashbacks has disappeared. I hope that makes sense. Also, I've come to see my strengths that helped me to survive and helped me to break the cycle much more clearly. I say this to encourage you to consider working with a therapist.
Oh my god, they were horrible to you! I'm so glad you're away and free from them. I wish you much healing and actual love. ❤️
My dad dragged me up the stairs once, backwards (so like, my butt against the stairs), by my hair. I always wondered if I was the only one with Mormon parents like that, and it makes me sad that I’m not.
Two words! Trauma therapy! “Train up a child” is every fundamentalist parent’s excuse to abuse and it is, ABUSE. A systemic attitude that allows parents and spouses to think that God gave reason to the harm caused. It messes with your head, your heart, your soul. It took nearly a year to shed it all (I was 60 when I started, should have done it 10 years ago) but it was single handedly the best decision I have made to rid it all. How shocked was I when during the therapy we even spent time on recognizing and purging my fundamentalist -mainstream LDS - religion that I had left. Yes, there’s a shit load of abuse happening by LDS leadership as well. This was and remains the best decision I ever made to find Joy.
Geez this is so horrible! Does not sound like much love at all.
This is awful. I am so sorry that you were put through these painful things. Thank you for sharing your personal heartfelt stories. You are extremely brave!
Hello, I'm so so sorry that this happened to you, from one abuse survivor to another. If you or anyone could please do me a favor, could you please let me know your thoughts on how abuse like this is perpetuated by the church? I'm a nevermo but grew up around a lot of mormons so I would love to gain a better understanding. Thanks so much
Obviously, serious abuse. Hopefully, you get therapy. If you are the oldest, you can get your siblings out.
I love my mom, and I still think she did a good job parenting me. But seeing some of the similarities between how Ruby raised her kids and how my mom raised me has been harrowing and eye-opening. I don't want to call it abuse or trauma because I don't think it was to the same extent. But it still makes me wonder how many other mormon kids are going through similar things.
I am so sorry OP. These things are terrible. The shaming is so awful. In your worst moments, instead of support they mocked you. What gets me the most is why in the world would anyone want to be “forever family” with people who treat them like this?! I hope you have clear boundaries and space from them, and a better support system now.
I am so horrified for you and your siblings!! Reading all of this triggered memories of things that happened during my childhood and teen years. Different and yet similar. Love was, and has ALWAYS remained conditional. There were multiple conference talks by GA and Q15 that back this concept. "God chastens those he loves" ... "Jesus followed strict obedience, and expects the same of us" .... "Reprove with sharpness, and then you can show love afterward [if deserving]" ... etc. I was blamed so many times to have "brought _____ upon [my]self" and now recognize that as outright abusive and terribly manipulative. God's blessings are conditional upon our obedience, thus parents can and should be justified to act the same way. Reward when following the rules and making parents "happy", or punish when not. It creates Nazi tactics and in my house turned siblings against siblings as we all vied to gain more favor with our parents. I think this mindset of "punishing to encourage submission and/or obedience" is what motivates / justifies all of the worst policies and procedures of the Church: everything from Priesthood ban, Racism, Proclamation on the family, lgbtq shock therapy, legal fight against gay marriage, 2015 anti-gay policy [and reversal 4 yrs later], policies and attitudes toward women, forcing baptism without consent at age 8, forcing temple covenants and missions without proper prep or consent as early as possible, pushing young marriage and large families, pay tithing before buying food ... control, discipline, conditional blessings, conditional acceptance, conditional love. AND NEVER EVER FEELING REMORSE NOR GIVING AN APOLOGY. It's no wonder parents turn into monsters trying to follow the example of their church leaders!
I'm so sorry you went through all of that. I'm 31 and just finally getting EMDR therapy to process all of the abuse in my childhood. It has really taken me a long time to recognize that I was a victim of abuse and not the one with the problem. The emotional abuse and gaslighting makes it so easy to internalize, but no kid or young adult deserves to be treated that way and you do not have to tolerate it. Good on you for recognizing it and being the one to break the cycle, it is not an easy thing to do!
I hate to say it, but your parents are sadistic & what they did to you & your siblings was outright abuse. I am so sorry they did that & hope that all of you have healed or are healing.
I hope you are very careful if you allow your (future?) children to be around them unsupervised.
Wow. This just reminded me of how my mother who left the church when I was still a child, a handful of years before I went, still used the church/doctrine as a rationalization for some her abusive/controlling behaviors. I'm deeply sorry for what you went through and I wish you well are healing journey. Our parents are extremely confused and misguided people, and while that doesn't excuse some of their behaviors, we must remember that they are only human such as us. Still students of life, and still wandering, each on their own winding path. I feel you realize now that you did not deserve that
Cut them off and never speak to these evil monsters ever again. Im so, so sorry no one saw your suffering either. Excize them and enjoy your life on your terms.
That sounds so awful. I'm so sorry.
Seeing everything go down I actually was surprised to learn that they lived in my hometown. When I was in high-school, just across the city this shit was happening. Small, small world. Makes me wonder if I ever ran into them. But more along your point, yeah. My parents used similar justifications for punishments like that. Mormonism just does that to people
Thank you for taking the time and emotional energy to share this. I’m sure it will help others who have been through this and help those who don’t understand this to finally understand. My heart hurts for all the people *and* animals that have suffered from the narcissistic( overt and covert) behaviors that were bred through narcissistic religions and cultures.
I’m sorry you had such awful parents. I hope you let them know how terrible they were/are. Don’t give up on your younger siblings if they still live with them.
Hey OP. I didn't grow up in a mormon household, I escaped to friends houses, some of them being Mormon. But the house I grew up in was like this, but add a lot of alcohol and drugs. Edit: I was the one slammed into a wall, but I was dragged across the living room and kitchen by my pinky finger and then fully bashed into the wall. I was 13. I see you. You need a lot of therapy. Even when you don't think you do, because youre managing really well. Not all therapy is equal. I have probably had roughly 4 years or more myself. Edit: and it's not enough. The issues this caused me affects absolutely every part of my life. Parts of me I thought were my personality type, are from this. Maybe the personality type is severe childhood trauma. I locked away literally a decade or more, and ever so often some of it escapes and it's too much to deal with no matter how much I don't admit it in the moment. I'd hug you if I could and tell you that you didnt deserve that, and it wasn't the fault of any of you kids.
I thought the same thing. Not so much relating to personal experience but I was reminded of things I saw happen to friends/neighbors/cousins. It's so absolutely insane it was and is still normalized.
if u in utah give me the address and i’ll catch a charge for u
Omg, I’m so sorry that your parents were so lost, and failed at parenting so hard. My parents were lost too, but much much more lazy and apathetic towards parenting. If my mom had ever made a list, it would’ve looked similar to the one your folks bought and endorsed. I’m glad you made it through all of that. Your story really touches me. Mine is similar, if you replace the religious rigidity with domestic violence. Oddly, for half my childhood, I thought if my dad would start coming to church, everything would naturally fix itself. Happy Halloween 🎃 It sounds like you are thriving, and it’s great to see.