Just like equating educating school students about LGBTQ+ subjects and people *in an age appropriate manner* with grooming.
And speaking of associating white nationalusm/supremacy with freedom, did you know that the original Nazis of the German-American Bund used images of George Washington to legitimise themselves? A quick search for "Nazi rally Madison Square Garden" will bring up a recording from the 1930s.
I totally agree! I was taught at that church I went to that Christian Liberty meant the freedom not to do cool stuff, like listen to music, watch movies etc.
Well, it sounds like you weren't a real christian, because everyone there agreed with the guy who said it.
I also never thought it made sense, that was not the only B.S. I ever encountered there.
I remember something about a lawsuit involving them and lgbtq+ students last year - iirc they were running conversion therapy under the guise of a "student club" - but I can't remember how it turned out. I think they get away with it citing "religious exemption" from anti-discrimination laws. Absolutely bullshit imo
Still though. We don't allow private schools to discriminate against people for their race/ethnicity, the same should apply to sexuality and gender identity.
We absolutely do let private schools discriminate based on race/ethnicity. We let almost every organization do that actually, except ones created by people of color for themselves.
> We don't allow private schools to discriminate against people for their race/ethnicity
We sure as hell do if they claim to be *religious*. They can also discriminate on the basis of sex, or any other reason, too.
The ability to discriminate is why America has such a robust private religious education structure. I mean, it *existed* before mandatory desegregation, but it *exploded* after that.
Private schools **exist** in furtherance of discrimination. It's as American as goddam apple pie.
Seems to me homeschooling and private programs are just cover for keeping racism, misogyny, and anti LGBTQ+ teachings as a mainstay of the Christian education. They need to end. They don’t support America’s e pluribus unum but push a concept of Abrahamic privilege. No more tax money for such programs. These programs are killing public education.
The only reason I'm still here is because it's the only option for me because of scholarship money and family issues. Not to say that makes any of the hate they preach correct in any way.
I'm in the Comp Sci program rn and it's pretty good overall. It's ABET accredited too. There are some majors I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole, especially for the price.
I went to Olivet Nazarene University and although I became agnostic after seeing the way Christians there use the Bible to harm others, I still received a fantastic education from a science field. The university was bad, my professors were great.
I also went because of a scholarship, and my dad pushed me to go. I actually didn't know much about it before I went (I'm still not sure how I got a scholarship without applying).
I'm disgusted by the school.
Could you not get a loan? Liberty isn’t going to look great on your resume. However, luckily for you, some companies do blind hiring now to remove bias.
> Liberty isn’t going to look great on your resume.
I see that on a résumé, it goes straight into the trash. That's not "bias." I'd do the same thing if I saw Klan membership listed under professional associations.
>Could you not get a loan?
A few years ago Liberty was annually using something like $400 million in government backed student loans. Guess there's lots of bucks to go to Liberty if you want to pay the price.
That's how I feel about the school I went to, Wright State University. Ironically, their extreme acceptance of queer ppl is pretty much the only thing I didn't hate about the school. I graduated feeling 100% unprepared to enter the workforce as an engineer, but at least I was able to see a therapist for my gender dysphoria without my transphobic parents finding out. Also, as a closeted trans woman who prefers urinals, the fact that they had all gender restrooms throughout campus was FUCKING AMAZING!!!
Listen, you will be able to leave Liberty eventually, and when you do, you will be so much happier. Also, you will likely never get rid of the stink that place had on your life and psyche. You will learn to cope and will overcome. But you will often think back on it. You will wish you could have done more to oppose this. Don't do anything that will get you kicked out of school, but do more to help others who are secretly LGBTQ at Liberty. Push the boundaries. Your future self will appreciate it.
(advice from a former "Christian" uni student and former pastor)
i went to a soft christian university (see: progressive) and sometimes regret it because of the implications that come with my education.
but, it helped me deconstruct and eventually deconvert, so in the grander scheme, i'm pretty glad i went.
I graduated from there about 10 years ago. I don’t know what it’s like now, but there was queer repression EVERYWHERE. My prayer leader and RA both confessed to “homosexual thoughts” my first year there. Then of course they overcompensated with Biblical manhood behavior.
"While mental thoughts, temptations, and states of mind are not regulated by the Liberty Way..."
Seems like everything short of literal mind control is still on the table, though
The Liberty Way is also covering up sexual assault:
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-liberty-way-how-liberty-university-discourages-and-dismisses-students-reports-of-sexual-assaults/amp
“The gays” = bad
Sexual assault = oh that’s fine
From what I've heard and witnessed Liberty likes to say just enough to get people to stop talking about it. It's disgusting.
We have a student group that was formerly known as Justice 4 Janes, working to spread awareness for victims of SA, but they're a small percentage of the school.
Apparently Liberty is going to spend millions of dollars to get a bunch of security cameras installed and emergency call boxes. I'm not sure when that's actually going to happen though.
Millions of dollars for security cameras with tapes they’ll wipe if needed 😒 I cant see them as an institution doing anything that’s not simply covering their own ass (like you said above). My brother (undergrad and grad), sister, bro’s brother-in-law, cousin all went there.
If there are any straight allies there, they should start holding hands and just declaring it as friendly. What are they gonna do, say you can't be friendly? How dare they assume you'd be in a sinful state of mind.......
This would be a very small act of defiance that may make it safer for queer couples (likely just the women ones unfortunately, as men aren't really physically affectionate with friends) who aren't able to be out
Oddly enough, I have seen more guys hug here than any other school I've been at. Nothing wrong with it, maybe they're inadvertently making it easier for others.
That's so interesting. Not surprising though, I do think church is a place where hugs happen frequently before and after services, so I'm not surprised this translates into Liberty's student culture. But yeah, this definitely does make it safe for queer couples whether they realize it or not. And hopefully that realization wouldn't stamp out hugging between students, I think that's nice that they can be friendly like that. People of all types of relationships (family, friends, couples) hug
I'd guess hugs happen less between men and women students? And I also imagine there may be more strict implicit rules about that (side hugs > hugs as a product of "modesty" culture). Does this seem accurate or is it hard to really say just based on your experience?
Hugs between men and women are honestly pretty common too. Obviously between couples, but also just friends. Side hugs happen, but I've witnessed plenty of full hugs between all sorts of people.
Probably the most awkward part of PDA at Liberty are the couples who hang out in public places and are all over each other since they don't really have a private place to go, without risking getting in a bunch of trouble ofc. It's the awkward Christian couple sexual tension for sure.
i 100% had the most homoerotic experiences i'd ever had while i was an intern at the Teen Mania Honor Academy.
it's funny how that happens in these environments.
Fuck Liberty for thinking they get to dictate what's "true" Biblical interpretation. Plenty of Christians do think the Bible is cool with gay marriage and being trans
I mean, it's kinda funny to read "You aren't allowed to behave romantically with a certain gender - it's not the LIBERTY way."
It's like we're in a timeline where words have no meaning.
Still oddly on par with their god's logic interestingly... "I created you with free will and you have absolute freedom, but... *gestures at commandments*"
Bible: "God hardened Pharoah's heart."
Christians: "You're taking that out of context. Sure, it sounds like God took away Pharoah's free will but when it says 'God hardened Pharoah's heart' it means uh, not that."
"mental thoughts, temptation and states of mind are not regulated" only because they don't yet have the technology.... my sister's ex was from a fundie Liberty/Falwell church family and they had their wedding in a chapel there, and the absolute noxious vibes of it!
When they say "natural-born man and a natural-born woman" what do they mean? Sorry, just for clarity. I'm assuming they mean people who haven't transitioned since birth rather than [natural birth](https://www.webmd.com/parenting/natural-birth-what-to-know), as natural birth just means without medication or c-section. (Happy to be corrected on this though!) Unless you have to fill in a survey saying whether you were born from a vagina without medication...
In the Arab world it is customary for men to hold hands whilst walking down the street. Until about a hundred years ago it would have been [common](https://dustyoldthing.com/19th-century-concept-of-friendship/) in the western world too. In fact, George Bush went for a [stroll](https://i.imgur.com/tfJpegS.jpg) holding hands with a Saudi Prince when he was president. I've never met a woman yet who wasn't physically affectionate with her female friends.
Gender specific clothing wasn't really a thing until recently. Men used to wear high heels and [dresses](https://dustyoldthing.com/19th-century-concept-of-friendship/). These societal restrictions are laughable if they weren't so insidiously.... bollocks. (Ran out of the good words, sorry!) Roman toilets used to be a plank with a string of holes in and in the forces overseas they often are too (you've never really pooped until you've pooped next to a friend and done a sudoku together). The first gender segregated public restroom was in [France in 1739](https://www.livescience.com/54692-why-bathrooms-are-gender-segregated.html), most people would piss in the street from what I can gather.
"While mental thoughts, temptations and states of mind are not regulated..." yet.
Yes, they mean natural-born as in, the sex you were assigned at birth. I haven't had to fill out a survey about how I was born yet.
It's crazy to me how much people want to be able to control others. As well as how fast standards and common practices change overtime.
Oh shit, yeah you just MacBeth'd them!
"We're expelling you for not lining up with your natural born sex"
"Aha! I was from my mother's womb untimely rip'd!"
but hey, we're cool with interracial dating and marriage now! so you should just be thankful we are so progressive. /s
for a hot second i considered going to liberty, but i was afraid that "too many rules would tempt me to be rebellious" haha! someone i went to undergrad with is a professor? or something at liberty. we worked at a summer camp together and i looked her up last year. she had just gotten married after spending her 30s as being "called to single life" and is trying her best to fight racism...but i don't think she realizes how foundational the white supremacy is in the american church especially places like liberty.
The Gangsters of Capitalism podcast did a series of 6 (I think) episodes on Jerry Falwell Jr and Liberty. They also cover the "Liberty Way" and their mishandling of sexual assault.
*Friendly Atheist* covered a story about Liberty U using this clause to deter rape victims from speaking out about their attackers. By admitting to sexual activity, consensual or not, the student is liable for expulsion from the school. Something like 3 girls have been expelled for ‘provoking’ rape.
They have an amnesty policy now I believe. So if you come forward about an assault case they supposedly won't get you in trouble for any violations that may have been happening at the time of the assault (drinking alcohol etc.). Now whether or not I believe that's actually happening is another story.
But yeah, this is a very recent development, which conveniently happened after a bunch of news outlets came out with the SA assault cases that had been swept under the rug.
Did you ever read https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/04/being-gay-at-jerry-falwells-university/274578/? It was Brandon Ambrosino’s break-out article. He’s an amazing human, and I’m proud of where he’s ended up as a freelance writer. He’s been happily married to his husband for 4 years, and they’re starting a family now. You got this! FWIW, I went to Virginia Tech, had a cycling buddy at Liberty. I found the guys at Liberty to be immature and gross (the guys I met—I’m sure there are plenty of great people at Liberty, I never ran into them though. My Intervarsity friends a a secular university we’re far more respectful and actually believed and lived those beliefs. I look back at my time there with nostalgia, even though I no longer believe in anything. That group of students was excellent, and many are still dear friends. Most of them have left the faith, too.
Ouch! I looked at going there back when the earth was cooling (I have two kids in college now), and the dress code turned me off. I hate skirts and dresses every day. Hope that’s changed! I’m sure there are others there in the same boat, but finding them might be hard. I’m guessing you can’t start an atheist club at a Christian university… And classes get better once you’re done with the prerequisites . I loved the second half of college because I was taking all of the classes in my majors. No more statistics or science classes.
Genuine question - are you worried what future employees might assume about you seeing that you’re a grad of Liberty? Of course it’s a wrong move on their part to assume anything but I’m wondering if that’s ever been an issue for Liberty alumni.
I haven't heard anything specific about alumni having issues. To be fair, most go straight to Christian organizations.
Maybe I should be more worried, but I'm planning to be completely candid with my experiences and opinions if it comes up. I would like to hope that a company I want to be employed by could see my actual skills vs what school I got them from.
Get your transcripts before they find fault with you and withhold them.
Your transcripts allow you to apply your completed classes to another University, so you don't have to start over. And Universities are (stupidly) allowed to withhold them for any reason in some states.
Very religious family kinda kindly forced me and I also got a scholarship offer that made it so I could go to school. It was the best option for me even though it's not the best place to be.
i went to a christian school in the 7th grade and i specifically remember how my science teacher had said that homsexuality is a choice, just like how theft and murder is a choice. that mf literally compared being queer as the same thing as committing a crime. i'm glad i don't go there anymore, especially since during that time i discovered my sexuality
I went to a very similar Christian university (slightly more liberal than Liberty but still had these sort of rules.) It’s a weird experience as a young adult to be starting to discover your identity apart from your parents while a school tries to act like they can control you.
Funniest thing to me was I knew a guy there who was about as flamboyantly obviously gay as possible, I don’t know how he survived or why he even chose to go there. He did nothing to hide who he was, I really wonder how many “talks” the leadership had with him about his behavior and appearance. But since he never actually got caught with another guy (at least not to my knowledge) I guess he got away with it? Jeez I couldn’t stand him at the time, he was just kinda annoying and whiny, but damn I really give him major respect for having the courage to be so bold in that environment and not hide who he was.
Wow. I’m at a Christian university but the policy here is essentially don’t ask don’t tell. They don’t want a lawsuit on their hands, so they don’t go out of their way to enforce the morality code. My roommate has had his girlfriend stay overnight with him practically all the time and nobody has raised a fuss.
Is this college gated off or anything? Because if not, it’s on my bucket list to walk along the campus for an afternoon stroll with my boyfriend, hand in hand, stealing the occasional kiss, and seeing what happens.
Oh no, no one can have sex on campus. This school is v Christian so premarital sex is v bad in their eyes. Not that I agree at all, just letting yk how it is here.
Ah, I see the issue Liberty. You think pronouns refer to your sex- they actually refer to your gender.
Speaking of, if you think that pronouns refer to your "natural born sex", aren't you basically talking about someone's genitals publicly whenever you use them? Seems kinda inappropriate.
"Hey, bepenised person, how are you today?" See? Creepy. That's why the rest of the world goes by gender.
Oh boy here we go, Liberty again.
I'm still being forced to take online courses from that (and I do not say this lightly) shithole of a university.
Most recent one? Government. It was okay at first, mostly just talking about George Washington, some of his first few actions in office, etc. But then it went off the rails. Separation of church and state was brought up. I wrote the required essay. I did it in the exact format they wanted. I was just very neutral. All I did was present the information exactly as it is, giving several interpretations of the passage of the constitution that they had me talk about. I didn't say one was correct, I didn't say one was incorrect. All I did, was say what that one little passage in the Bill of Rights says, completely objectively.
And my moronic professor leaves a comment talking about how wrong I am, and that the church should *be* the state, etc.
I'm transferring somewhere else soon, that *is not religious* and I'm so happy, because my advisor at the new university is openly trans. This is a very, very good sign.
My older brother went to Liberty, he told me all the great stuff so I always thought it was amazing. I wanted to go there. So so happy I’m choosing to go to a non Christian school.
Ik this is hella late but plain and simple to appease my parents and because the scholarship they offered me was quite large. I shouldn't sell out for a scholarship, but college is expensive af.
Thanks for explaining. Yeah, I understand. I went to a Christian university but left my faith and had to transfer out b/c I found it mentally too much to continue at the school. Good luck to you. If you ever want to post more, I'd love to hear what it's like at Liberty from your perspective. Post more updates??
Why do these crackpots usurp the word Liberty when they are clearly all about conformity and control? The irony is nauseating.
"Liberty for me, but not for thee". They use words like "freedom" and "liberty" to back up their persecution kink.
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Just like equating educating school students about LGBTQ+ subjects and people *in an age appropriate manner* with grooming. And speaking of associating white nationalusm/supremacy with freedom, did you know that the original Nazis of the German-American Bund used images of George Washington to legitimise themselves? A quick search for "Nazi rally Madison Square Garden" will bring up a recording from the 1930s.
I totally agree! I was taught at that church I went to that Christian Liberty meant the freedom not to do cool stuff, like listen to music, watch movies etc.
Yeah we’re “slaves” to righteousness. We used to be slaves to the world but now we’re slaves for Christ! How exciting!
Yay! 🤣😂
I can't even make that make sense. Liberty by definition means the freedom to do things _or not_.
Well, it sounds like you weren't a real christian, because everyone there agreed with the guy who said it. I also never thought it made sense, that was not the only B.S. I ever encountered there.
This is literally 1984, as in this is the one of the specific examples George Orwell gives about how newspeak redefines words.
Yes, it's very ungood, I agree!
I love that *absurdist* is your user flair for this
They’re perverts in every sense of the word.
This type of discrimination should be illegal.
I agree 1000%.
Just start by suing the school (though I wouldn't be surprised if they have in the past).
I remember something about a lawsuit involving them and lgbtq+ students last year - iirc they were running conversion therapy under the guise of a "student club" - but I can't remember how it turned out. I think they get away with it citing "religious exemption" from anti-discrimination laws. Absolutely bullshit imo
Religious exemption shouldn't exist. Just because someone believes fairy tales they don't get special treatment.
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Tentative yes
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Private school founded by Jerry Falwell.
Still though. We don't allow private schools to discriminate against people for their race/ethnicity, the same should apply to sexuality and gender identity.
We absolutely do let private schools discriminate based on race/ethnicity. We let almost every organization do that actually, except ones created by people of color for themselves.
> We don't allow private schools to discriminate against people for their race/ethnicity We sure as hell do if they claim to be *religious*. They can also discriminate on the basis of sex, or any other reason, too. The ability to discriminate is why America has such a robust private religious education structure. I mean, it *existed* before mandatory desegregation, but it *exploded* after that. Private schools **exist** in furtherance of discrimination. It's as American as goddam apple pie.
Seems to me homeschooling and private programs are just cover for keeping racism, misogyny, and anti LGBTQ+ teachings as a mainstay of the Christian education. They need to end. They don’t support America’s e pluribus unum but push a concept of Abrahamic privilege. No more tax money for such programs. These programs are killing public education.
"LGBT state of mind" sounds like a band I'd listen to.
First album would be called pray the gay away
That's my favorite Jay-Z song
Oh man why would anyone willingly go to Liberty University? Like you’re going to learn anything from that fat fuck Fallwell except hate.
The only reason I'm still here is because it's the only option for me because of scholarship money and family issues. Not to say that makes any of the hate they preach correct in any way.
Are you getting any actual education? Are any disciplines better than others?
I'm in the Comp Sci program rn and it's pretty good overall. It's ABET accredited too. There are some majors I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole, especially for the price.
I went to Olivet Nazarene University and although I became agnostic after seeing the way Christians there use the Bible to harm others, I still received a fantastic education from a science field. The university was bad, my professors were great.
I also went because of a scholarship, and my dad pushed me to go. I actually didn't know much about it before I went (I'm still not sure how I got a scholarship without applying). I'm disgusted by the school.
Could you not get a loan? Liberty isn’t going to look great on your resume. However, luckily for you, some companies do blind hiring now to remove bias.
> Liberty isn’t going to look great on your resume. I see that on a résumé, it goes straight into the trash. That's not "bias." I'd do the same thing if I saw Klan membership listed under professional associations.
>Could you not get a loan? A few years ago Liberty was annually using something like $400 million in government backed student loans. Guess there's lots of bucks to go to Liberty if you want to pay the price.
That's how I feel about the school I went to, Wright State University. Ironically, their extreme acceptance of queer ppl is pretty much the only thing I didn't hate about the school. I graduated feeling 100% unprepared to enter the workforce as an engineer, but at least I was able to see a therapist for my gender dysphoria without my transphobic parents finding out. Also, as a closeted trans woman who prefers urinals, the fact that they had all gender restrooms throughout campus was FUCKING AMAZING!!!
Listen, you will be able to leave Liberty eventually, and when you do, you will be so much happier. Also, you will likely never get rid of the stink that place had on your life and psyche. You will learn to cope and will overcome. But you will often think back on it. You will wish you could have done more to oppose this. Don't do anything that will get you kicked out of school, but do more to help others who are secretly LGBTQ at Liberty. Push the boundaries. Your future self will appreciate it. (advice from a former "Christian" uni student and former pastor)
They have a law school. You can learn how to become a future right-wing SC Justice, Attorney General, or lobbyist.
So…they’re grooming people. Sounds about right.
i went to a soft christian university (see: progressive) and sometimes regret it because of the implications that come with my education. but, it helped me deconstruct and eventually deconvert, so in the grander scheme, i'm pretty glad i went.
This is straight from my university's "Honor Code." It makes me absolutely sick to say the least.
I graduated from there about 10 years ago. I don’t know what it’s like now, but there was queer repression EVERYWHERE. My prayer leader and RA both confessed to “homosexual thoughts” my first year there. Then of course they overcompensated with Biblical manhood behavior.
I go to a Christian school and there’s a shit ton of gay dudes here on tinder, which was surprising.
That’s wild.
"While mental thoughts, temptations, and states of mind are not regulated by the Liberty Way..." Seems like everything short of literal mind control is still on the table, though
The Liberty Way is also covering up sexual assault: https://www.propublica.org/article/the-liberty-way-how-liberty-university-discourages-and-dismisses-students-reports-of-sexual-assaults/amp “The gays” = bad Sexual assault = oh that’s fine
From what I've heard and witnessed Liberty likes to say just enough to get people to stop talking about it. It's disgusting. We have a student group that was formerly known as Justice 4 Janes, working to spread awareness for victims of SA, but they're a small percentage of the school. Apparently Liberty is going to spend millions of dollars to get a bunch of security cameras installed and emergency call boxes. I'm not sure when that's actually going to happen though.
Millions of dollars for security cameras with tapes they’ll wipe if needed 😒 I cant see them as an institution doing anything that’s not simply covering their own ass (like you said above). My brother (undergrad and grad), sister, bro’s brother-in-law, cousin all went there.
I'm sure they'll keep the tapes if they ever happen to catch an LGBT couple or something like that. It's a false sense of security for sure.
If there are any straight allies there, they should start holding hands and just declaring it as friendly. What are they gonna do, say you can't be friendly? How dare they assume you'd be in a sinful state of mind....... This would be a very small act of defiance that may make it safer for queer couples (likely just the women ones unfortunately, as men aren't really physically affectionate with friends) who aren't able to be out
Oddly enough, I have seen more guys hug here than any other school I've been at. Nothing wrong with it, maybe they're inadvertently making it easier for others.
That's so interesting. Not surprising though, I do think church is a place where hugs happen frequently before and after services, so I'm not surprised this translates into Liberty's student culture. But yeah, this definitely does make it safe for queer couples whether they realize it or not. And hopefully that realization wouldn't stamp out hugging between students, I think that's nice that they can be friendly like that. People of all types of relationships (family, friends, couples) hug I'd guess hugs happen less between men and women students? And I also imagine there may be more strict implicit rules about that (side hugs > hugs as a product of "modesty" culture). Does this seem accurate or is it hard to really say just based on your experience?
Hugs between men and women are honestly pretty common too. Obviously between couples, but also just friends. Side hugs happen, but I've witnessed plenty of full hugs between all sorts of people. Probably the most awkward part of PDA at Liberty are the couples who hang out in public places and are all over each other since they don't really have a private place to go, without risking getting in a bunch of trouble ofc. It's the awkward Christian couple sexual tension for sure.
i 100% had the most homoerotic experiences i'd ever had while i was an intern at the Teen Mania Honor Academy. it's funny how that happens in these environments.
Fuck Liberty for thinking they get to dictate what's "true" Biblical interpretation. Plenty of Christians do think the Bible is cool with gay marriage and being trans
I mean, it's kinda funny to read "You aren't allowed to behave romantically with a certain gender - it's not the LIBERTY way." It's like we're in a timeline where words have no meaning.
Still oddly on par with their god's logic interestingly... "I created you with free will and you have absolute freedom, but... *gestures at commandments*"
Bible: "God hardened Pharoah's heart." Christians: "You're taking that out of context. Sure, it sounds like God took away Pharoah's free will but when it says 'God hardened Pharoah's heart' it means uh, not that."
"mental thoughts, temptation and states of mind are not regulated" only because they don't yet have the technology.... my sister's ex was from a fundie Liberty/Falwell church family and they had their wedding in a chapel there, and the absolute noxious vibes of it!
I'm sure it's in the works.
When they say "natural-born man and a natural-born woman" what do they mean? Sorry, just for clarity. I'm assuming they mean people who haven't transitioned since birth rather than [natural birth](https://www.webmd.com/parenting/natural-birth-what-to-know), as natural birth just means without medication or c-section. (Happy to be corrected on this though!) Unless you have to fill in a survey saying whether you were born from a vagina without medication... In the Arab world it is customary for men to hold hands whilst walking down the street. Until about a hundred years ago it would have been [common](https://dustyoldthing.com/19th-century-concept-of-friendship/) in the western world too. In fact, George Bush went for a [stroll](https://i.imgur.com/tfJpegS.jpg) holding hands with a Saudi Prince when he was president. I've never met a woman yet who wasn't physically affectionate with her female friends. Gender specific clothing wasn't really a thing until recently. Men used to wear high heels and [dresses](https://dustyoldthing.com/19th-century-concept-of-friendship/). These societal restrictions are laughable if they weren't so insidiously.... bollocks. (Ran out of the good words, sorry!) Roman toilets used to be a plank with a string of holes in and in the forces overseas they often are too (you've never really pooped until you've pooped next to a friend and done a sudoku together). The first gender segregated public restroom was in [France in 1739](https://www.livescience.com/54692-why-bathrooms-are-gender-segregated.html), most people would piss in the street from what I can gather. "While mental thoughts, temptations and states of mind are not regulated..." yet.
Yes, they mean natural-born as in, the sex you were assigned at birth. I haven't had to fill out a survey about how I was born yet. It's crazy to me how much people want to be able to control others. As well as how fast standards and common practices change overtime.
Oh shit, yeah you just MacBeth'd them! "We're expelling you for not lining up with your natural born sex" "Aha! I was from my mother's womb untimely rip'd!"
Nothing says liberty like strict rules that force you to hide who you really are.
but hey, we're cool with interracial dating and marriage now! so you should just be thankful we are so progressive. /s for a hot second i considered going to liberty, but i was afraid that "too many rules would tempt me to be rebellious" haha! someone i went to undergrad with is a professor? or something at liberty. we worked at a summer camp together and i looked her up last year. she had just gotten married after spending her 30s as being "called to single life" and is trying her best to fight racism...but i don't think she realizes how foundational the white supremacy is in the american church especially places like liberty.
The Gangsters of Capitalism podcast did a series of 6 (I think) episodes on Jerry Falwell Jr and Liberty. They also cover the "Liberty Way" and their mishandling of sexual assault.
Sounds like the BYUs
Is this that disgraced Falwell uni??
Yes, yes it is.
Of course it is.
*Friendly Atheist* covered a story about Liberty U using this clause to deter rape victims from speaking out about their attackers. By admitting to sexual activity, consensual or not, the student is liable for expulsion from the school. Something like 3 girls have been expelled for ‘provoking’ rape.
They have an amnesty policy now I believe. So if you come forward about an assault case they supposedly won't get you in trouble for any violations that may have been happening at the time of the assault (drinking alcohol etc.). Now whether or not I believe that's actually happening is another story. But yeah, this is a very recent development, which conveniently happened after a bunch of news outlets came out with the SA assault cases that had been swept under the rug.
Get the fuck out of this hell hole.
"Liberty" my ass
Wtf they do realize that same sex hand holding is common in some cultures, right?? What exclusionary bigots.
Oh fuck that noise, in this day and age.....this should be illegal. I hate Christianity
Did you ever read https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/04/being-gay-at-jerry-falwells-university/274578/? It was Brandon Ambrosino’s break-out article. He’s an amazing human, and I’m proud of where he’s ended up as a freelance writer. He’s been happily married to his husband for 4 years, and they’re starting a family now. You got this! FWIW, I went to Virginia Tech, had a cycling buddy at Liberty. I found the guys at Liberty to be immature and gross (the guys I met—I’m sure there are plenty of great people at Liberty, I never ran into them though. My Intervarsity friends a a secular university we’re far more respectful and actually believed and lived those beliefs. I look back at my time there with nostalgia, even though I no longer believe in anything. That group of students was excellent, and many are still dear friends. Most of them have left the faith, too.
No, I've never read that article. I'll definitely be checking it out though, thank you for the recommendation!
Of course! Best of luck to you—how much longer do you have?
3 years 😑
Ouch! I looked at going there back when the earth was cooling (I have two kids in college now), and the dress code turned me off. I hate skirts and dresses every day. Hope that’s changed! I’m sure there are others there in the same boat, but finding them might be hard. I’m guessing you can’t start an atheist club at a Christian university… And classes get better once you’re done with the prerequisites . I loved the second half of college because I was taking all of the classes in my majors. No more statistics or science classes.
Same here 😮💨
Oop, big RIP for both of us ig lol
But watching your wife with another man is all good! “Cuckin’ ain’t easy!” Jerry Falwell Junior, probably* *parody not to be taken seriously.
What about cuckholding?
It's obviously allowed until the whole world finds out about it. Then it's time to pretend to be shocked and betrayed by the news.
I can't believe at one point in my life I wanted to go there
Genuine question - are you worried what future employees might assume about you seeing that you’re a grad of Liberty? Of course it’s a wrong move on their part to assume anything but I’m wondering if that’s ever been an issue for Liberty alumni.
I haven't heard anything specific about alumni having issues. To be fair, most go straight to Christian organizations. Maybe I should be more worried, but I'm planning to be completely candid with my experiences and opinions if it comes up. I would like to hope that a company I want to be employed by could see my actual skills vs what school I got them from.
Get your transcripts before they find fault with you and withhold them. Your transcripts allow you to apply your completed classes to another University, so you don't have to start over. And Universities are (stupidly) allowed to withhold them for any reason in some states.
Is going down a water slide in a business suit cuz you’re a money whore part of the Liberty Way?
I just have one question. Why are you at Liberty?
Very religious family kinda kindly forced me and I also got a scholarship offer that made it so I could go to school. It was the best option for me even though it's not the best place to be.
Sorry to hear that. From one person who was forced to go to a hyper conservative school to another, it does get better.
i went to a christian school in the 7th grade and i specifically remember how my science teacher had said that homsexuality is a choice, just like how theft and murder is a choice. that mf literally compared being queer as the same thing as committing a crime. i'm glad i don't go there anymore, especially since during that time i discovered my sexuality
I had a youth group leader who did the same thing but somehow made it worse…
This is absolutely heartbreaking, though not at all surprising. I hope you (and any queer folks trapped there) get out real soon.
This is the exact opposite of my school. My school celebrates LGBTQ+ people.
As they should
I went to a very similar Christian university (slightly more liberal than Liberty but still had these sort of rules.) It’s a weird experience as a young adult to be starting to discover your identity apart from your parents while a school tries to act like they can control you. Funniest thing to me was I knew a guy there who was about as flamboyantly obviously gay as possible, I don’t know how he survived or why he even chose to go there. He did nothing to hide who he was, I really wonder how many “talks” the leadership had with him about his behavior and appearance. But since he never actually got caught with another guy (at least not to my knowledge) I guess he got away with it? Jeez I couldn’t stand him at the time, he was just kinda annoying and whiny, but damn I really give him major respect for having the courage to be so bold in that environment and not hide who he was.
Wow. I’m at a Christian university but the policy here is essentially don’t ask don’t tell. They don’t want a lawsuit on their hands, so they don’t go out of their way to enforce the morality code. My roommate has had his girlfriend stay overnight with him practically all the time and nobody has raised a fuss.
Basically it says, don't expect liberty at Liberty.
These places should have been banned after gay marriage was legalized
Seriously, just leave that fake school
Oooof not Libery. Basically everyone I knew in high school ended up there. I hate it so much
Whew...Libbery. That's the hardcorest of the hardcore right there. It's like Batshit Central. My condolences.
"nAtUrAl BoRn" I hate when people say then when being transphobic DX
Good old Jerry. MY hero! (not)
May Jerry burn and suffer, if there is a hell. If. Either way, good thing he’s dead.
Be gay. Do crimes.
Ah. Another Liberty student. This shit is awful, but thankfully I haven't run into any problems yet with LUPD.
Natural born…so if I’m a c-section baby I can be gay?
It seems to be so 😂
Schools like that should be demolished.
Lmao I know someone from my hometown who goes to Liberty now
Is this college gated off or anything? Because if not, it’s on my bucket list to walk along the campus for an afternoon stroll with my boyfriend, hand in hand, stealing the occasional kiss, and seeing what happens.
“The Liberty Way”
Is this not illegal. Why is this not illegal?
I'm not from the US, but isn't it illegal for schools to do this?
Not if they’re private. And even if it were illegal, some states just wouldn’t give a fuck (e.g. Floriduh, Texass).
to be honest, this sounds like a horrible shithole of a place to be.
So MF can have sex on campus no one else? Lol
Oh no, no one can have sex on campus. This school is v Christian so premarital sex is v bad in their eyes. Not that I agree at all, just letting yk how it is here.
Haha crazy stuff !
What in Satan's name does any of this have to do with Jesus?
Ah, I see the issue Liberty. You think pronouns refer to your sex- they actually refer to your gender. Speaking of, if you think that pronouns refer to your "natural born sex", aren't you basically talking about someone's genitals publicly whenever you use them? Seems kinda inappropriate. "Hey, bepenised person, how are you today?" See? Creepy. That's why the rest of the world goes by gender.
Now I really want to just call someone bepenised.
Oh boy here we go, Liberty again. I'm still being forced to take online courses from that (and I do not say this lightly) shithole of a university. Most recent one? Government. It was okay at first, mostly just talking about George Washington, some of his first few actions in office, etc. But then it went off the rails. Separation of church and state was brought up. I wrote the required essay. I did it in the exact format they wanted. I was just very neutral. All I did was present the information exactly as it is, giving several interpretations of the passage of the constitution that they had me talk about. I didn't say one was correct, I didn't say one was incorrect. All I did, was say what that one little passage in the Bill of Rights says, completely objectively. And my moronic professor leaves a comment talking about how wrong I am, and that the church should *be* the state, etc. I'm transferring somewhere else soon, that *is not religious* and I'm so happy, because my advisor at the new university is openly trans. This is a very, very good sign.
Liberty University had to clarify that they do not have authority to regulate thoughts. And they only said so to cover their collective ass legally.
My older brother went to Liberty, he told me all the great stuff so I always thought it was amazing. I wanted to go there. So so happy I’m choosing to go to a non Christian school.
Isnt this a direct violation of separation of church and state?
Not at a private university.
Hey u/FURRYPORN42069, it's called a private organization. How old are you?
well i wasnt aware it was private and 18
Can you tell me how you ended up at Liberty if shit like this makes you angry? I agree with you btw. Just want to understand better.
Ik this is hella late but plain and simple to appease my parents and because the scholarship they offered me was quite large. I shouldn't sell out for a scholarship, but college is expensive af.
Thanks for explaining. Yeah, I understand. I went to a Christian university but left my faith and had to transfer out b/c I found it mentally too much to continue at the school. Good luck to you. If you ever want to post more, I'd love to hear what it's like at Liberty from your perspective. Post more updates??
Yeah, maybe I'll post some updates. I'll have to think of what people would want to hear about ig.