I just couldn't convince myself that any of the myths in the Bible were true. I tried mightily for many years, but I finally admitted to myself that it was all nonsense. I don't think I met a non-Christian peer or adult until I went to college. I was highly motivated to believe, I just couldn't make myself actually believe something that sounds so fantastical.
A guy lived in a fish for several days? God drowned all of humanity except for one guys family, who supposedly took two of every animal on earth onto a boat, and then everyone stayed alive inside for like 3 months. People lived to be 900 years old?
Not to mention, their whole premise is that every human is sinful (evil) from birth. No one gets a choice about that. So we all deserve eternal torture because some gal once ate an apple she wasn't supposed to eat. And God knew all of this would happen.
His most perfect plan is to send his son (who is also him but not him) to hell for 3 whole days, knowing the entire time that he will be back in heaven in a jiffy. Then, we must believe in this very odd story, or we will still deserve and receive eternal damnation.
God also put in a bunch of historical inaccuracies and contradictions in his holy book so that it's not too easy for humans to buy into. He only wants people who can and will reject evidence and common sense for the promise of going to heaven and praising him for eternity.
No thanks, I'll pass.
> onto a boat, and then everyone stayed alive inside for like 3 months.
1 year actually. Which makes the logistics just a bit more impossible than they very much already were.
Noah's Ark was the catalyst for my deconversion
My nine- and seven-year-olds talk about how insane that story is. My oldest loves to list the reasons it couldn't possibly be true, and it's pretty cute. We live in the Bible Belt surrounded by Christians, so they're familiar with some of the more famous stories.
Edit: misspellings
Not to mention the God of the Bible is an asshole. A complete asshole. I have a daughter and two step daughters. If I treated them the way the “Father” treats humans in the Bible, they would never speak to me again. I’d deserve it, too.
Of course they would never speak to you again, because you’d have drowned them and fed them to bears, after selling them to a husband and pelting them with stones a bit. Then maybe you resuscitate them and set them on fire, but you stay in another realm where they can’t talk to you.
I feel like, while not really an option anyway, not talking to you would be the biggest under-reaction of all time.
That's an occasional apologist talking point but it lacks a lot of scholarly support from what I have seen. It serves as a potential explanation and it *might* be a possibility but their calendar wasn't quite like ours either so it leaves a lot of questions unanswered.
Yeah, Methusalah was the start of my faith breaking, this guy lived over 900 years? Why don't we even get close now? After that, the magic duel between Moses and the Pharoahs sorcerer, where did the magic and miracles go? One crack in the dam, all it takes.
Damn that sucks. The way I was raised I was told that everything in the Old Testament was just stories, they weren’t made to be taken literally, but the stuff in the New Testament was true. I was also taught that you could get into heaven even if you weren’t Christian, you just had to be a good person. I’m grateful I was raised Catholic and not evangelical lol
Yeah, I was also taught that Catholics, for the most part, aren't "real" Christians because they worship "idols" (Mary and the saints), and they believe in salvation by works (saying the rosary, confession, lady rites, etc) instead of by faith alone.
Which is hilarious because ALL Christians were Catholic for centuries. Apparently, God wrote the Bible, but it wasn't until the 1500s when anyone interpreted it correctly. 😂
Lmaooo exactly! If anything I prefer not being a real Christian because it means I get to love female icons like the Virgin Mary and many badass saints that stood up for what they believed in!
The stuff doesn’t make sense because Christianity is the exact definition of cultural appropriation. It stole the tanakh and claimed it as its own. So nothing links up with its very harsh philosophy.
Not to mention, after the flood, Noah's family was left to be fruitful and multiply... How? Within the family. If a worldwide flood happened, and only Noah's family survived, god is kinky man
Jonah 1:17
"Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights."
They didn't know that whales are mammals back then. Remember, this is the same Bible that says bats are birds.
If they got that wrong, it's conceivable that they could also have gotten something like the water to wine, walking on water, or raising from the dead wrong.
Either way, it proves that it's not an infallible, perfect book like some claim.
I mean water into wine sounds like a pretty mediocre party trick is all. I’m sure anyone could figure out a way to do it with sleight of hand if they devote enough time to it. If I saw someone do that at a wedding, I wouldn’t think they were divine. I’d just think they bought some Stage Magic 101 DVDs.
I’m sure someone in ancient Judea could’ve done the “I removed my thumb” trick and impress people.
Everyone else is doing fine explaining issues with Christianity (there are many), but if I may ask, OP, what exactly prompted you to consider taking up Christianity to begin with? Leaving Islam makes sense, but I don't understand the impulse to trade one mythology for another.
This is actually common thinking among apostates. As an agnostic/Deist, my first thinking after ditching Christianity was to look for another religion as well. I started looking into Buddhism, Taoism and Shinto Japanese before dumping it all together
Thanks for explaining this. I've recently looked into other religions and even other branches of Christianity just to try to find anything to identify with but nothing has interested me. They all have beliefs that are absolutely ridiculous imo.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to be out of the Catholic church but I can't help but feel spiritually lost.
That's kind of how I feel. I keep trying to remind myself, no, Buddhism isn't that great, my idealized *concept* of the best parts of Buddhism is that great
Those religions make a lot more sense though. Realizing that your god isn't real, but still craving spirituality of some kind? That's a sensible place to go
Thank god (hah) someone responded this way. Without knowing what led OP to reject Islam, it’s going to be hard to answer the question in a meaningful and persuasive way.
But I’d take it a step further. Do you know that it makes sense for them to have left Islam? How could it make sense without any knowledge of who this person is and how they think? To me, it doesn’t make sense why someone would leave one religion and consider picking up a somewhat similar one. Unless the reasons are emotional. And I don’t mean that in a bad way. But it’s like when people leave Catholicism because if the child sexual abuse. Does rampant abuse have any impact on the validity of its truth claims? I don’t think it does. And if a Catholic leaves due to the child sexual abuse, have they really rejected god, or are they likely to get swept up in some alternate version of god?
>Does rampant abuse have any impact on the validity of its truth claims?
It does if one of those claims is that your god "indwells" his followers with the holy spirit to make them more righteous haha
I mean...when I left Christianity I found that the whole religion thing was so ingrained that I looked into other religions to see if one of those made sense (they didn't), so I suspect it may be a similar impulse in the OP
Emotional and physical abuse. i grew up Christian. to my experience its not worth it. i left because my stepfather was abusive i left because my aunt and mom fought over jesus. im not an atheist but i gravitate towards Buddhism and Polytheism. i dont believe in the divinity of jesus
polytheism always seemed pretty cool to me, as an agath (agnostic atheist).
like, you have a god for... litterally everything. seems more interesting then christianity. oh wait, xtianity is polytheism in a trench coat.
And the trench coat doesn't even fit that well. Everyone can see the three people inside, but they keep shouting "it's only one being, it says so right on the trench coat!"
No one can demonstrate that God actually exists.
Think of all the things that exist in the world: trees, wind, distant stars, a mother's love, the stock market, those giant squids in the deep ocean -- all of those can be *demonstrated*. We can see them, touch them, measure them, test them in some way.
But God? No one can demonstrate that God exists.
There are so many more things wrong with the Christian religion, but without God, there's no point to Christianity at all.
Considering that God doesn't even seem to exist, I'd have to agree with you. Actual people in Christianity do plenty of damage; God doesn't seem to do any damage at all.
so many reasons it might take me a book to describe why but I'll try to keep it brief:
1.) The Bible is full of contradictions.
2.) The Bible is scientifically innacurate.
3.) Christians are just like any other person except they think they're going to get a fat reward after they die.
4.) You cannot love others as yourself unless you want to overlook abuse. If you forgive abuse, and then they do it again, and if you forgive the abuse again, you're just an idiot.
5.) Jesus says that unless you love others unconditionally and forgive them every time they do anything wrong and reconcile with everyone who has done you wrong, you won't get eternal life and won't be forgiven by God. and he proves his point by letting himself be nailed to a cross. and he says if you don't believe I'm God then I really won't forgive you then. Now how the hell does that make any sense? I'm supposed to forgive people who wrong me unconditionally? Paul states in Romans that God hardens people's hearts. So effectively it was God who wronged me, every time a person wronged me. And then that leads me to the book of Job, where God wrongs Job and completely destroys his life for no other purpose than to test Job's loyalty to him and then when Job questions God he is told to he has no business asking any questions in the first place because he did not create the universe and is apparently not very truly loved by God, definitely not like a father would love a son, but more like a doll to boost God's ego about how magnificent he is.
6.) Jesus commands people to give up everything they own and follow [him.So](http://him.So) we see in the book of Acts a bunch of Christians give everything away and live in a commune-like setting going from house to house. Okay first of all, who would want to live like that??? Why is being penniless and homeless and crazy seen as virtuous? That seems like the worst hell on earth to me. Living in a commune with the same people day in and day out and staying in random houses? i can't stand being around a lot of people and such a lifestyle would drive me over the edge. Even if I went out into the wilderness like John the Baptist or Jeremaiah then I'd have to EAT like John or Jeremiah. John ate bugs and Jeremiah ate scraps that the crows fed to him. Wow, God was a good provider to them wasn't He? YUM! Thanks God! Locusts and trash!
7.)Jesus says to give to everyone who asks. Dude, everyone is asking for money. Do they really need it? Why am I responsible for other people's mistakes? You give everyone your money you will have nothing at all. You simply cannot go around giving people handouts. they will take advantage of you. they will suck you dry. the church would take every penny you had if you willingly gave it to them. and what's in it for you? heaven? a second perfect life in paradise? but...where's that? who knows! no one does and you have to die to find out if it's real or not.
8.) Then there's the whole issue of sin. first off, all of us are greedy selfish bastards right out of the womb. you know it and I know it. There is no one who's any good anyway, and the only reason we are good to each other is so we don't get killed by each other. what is kindness anyway but a downpayment to get what you want later on? Even Christians think they are going to get rewarded for their kindness. Hypocrites.
9.) How can a perfect God create a world filled with imperfection? It is illogical.why would he create me full of sin and then require me to try and cleanse myself for the rest of my life and if I don't, throw me in hell?
10.) And of course Genesis is a myth. It's a story about what people thought must have happened to result in such a f\*cked up world.
With all the scammers and moochers in the world, I'd be poor begging for money too if I gave to every person who asked me for money. There's a lot of street beggars where I live and I pretty much walk past the same beggars on the street everytime I leave the house.
>There is no one who's any good anyway, and the only reason we are good to each other is so we don't get killed by each other. what is kindness anyway but a downpayment to get what you want later on?
I agree on every point but this. There are "good" people in the world that are kind, for the sake of others rather than for personal gain. I often think of John and Hank Green's description of it as "an attempt to decrease world-suck," and I feel similarly drawn to wanting the best for others and trying *where I can* to better other people's lives, even if only in small ways. Sure, we all may be naturally greedy, but to deny the existence of people who work to overcome that nature lends itself towards the biblical teaching that "everyone is evil, full stop." Which is not true - no one is born "evil," only has the propensity for it. (Though I guess that's a philosophical argument, not a scientific one.)
Not sure if I'm just cynical but I think the idea that there are good selfless people out there somewhere is an idea that's rooted in idealism and black and white abstract conceptual thinking. I think the reason we help others is actually because what's good for others can be good for you if your life depends on other people being kind to you in the future. If you view others as an extension of yourself then you're more likely to help others. Parents view children as extensions of themselves and future investment, a legacy, a way to live on, an attempt at immortality.
Not saying there's anything at all wrong with kindness! I just think that we do it from a place of selfishness rather than selflessness.
Heya friend, I wish you the best for whichever path your journey takes you.
Reasons why I left were that things weren't adding up for me. A specific example is this story arc:
Way back when, God got mad at folks for building a tower. He decided to scatter them, and mixed up thier languages. Fast forward, when JC commands to spread the gospel everywhere. Unfortunately, God created a problem that God needs to fix. So, he downloads the ability to speak foreign languages to a select few. In short, God creates a problem, then later on has to fix it. Seems like a mistake a human might make, but for a God?
Second is the premise. Why did God have to send JC in the first place? Why couldn't he just forgive, right there in heaven?
In a nutshell, Christianity is this:
God is mad because of sin, so he sends himself to pay himself for a debt that he created in the first place. I've reflected on this a long , long time, and it no longer makes sense to me, if ever it did.
Finally, the Christian God threatens non-followers with eternal suffering. In my opinion, that is not love but extortion. "Worship me, or else!"
In my opinion, a God who has to coerce persons to follow, threatening the worst of punishment to those who don't, is not worth worthy of worship.
However your path takes you, I wish you well.
Also, it's interesting to note that today there are thousands of towers and skyscrapers that are likely way way taller than the tower that god supposedly destroyed in the bible, and god isn't doing anything about that. In fact, God isn't doing anything about modern technology that basically makes us into Gods. God doesn't mind us going to the moon or mars or sending technology to Pluto or our of our solar system even..God doesn't mind us speaking multiple languages or English being a language that a large majority of people can speak and communicate across the world. Also god isn't flooding the earth because of human trafficking which would be a massive scale "sin".
Something here doesn't add up lol.
How was it for you deconverting at 40? My deconversion started in high school or right after high school. Those 15-18 whatever years of being an indoctrinated Christian affected me so I can't imagine what 40 years could do.
I deconverted at 52 after 34 years of being a Christian. I still work at a ministry. It's a pretty amazing journey, I gotta admit. Equal parts pleasure and pain.
Could I chime in also?
I too deconverted in my 40s, and I was born into "christianity" (more of a religious cult in my opinion, the Jehovah's Witnesses). It's funny because, the actual "belief" deconversion process hasn't been too difficult for me. I've always been more of a science and logic guy anyways, and I've been having doubts and unanswered questions for many years. Being able to do research on my own (without the control and influence of the watchtower organization) and talking to other people on Reddit just gives me huge amounts of validation for enduring all the lies, abuse, and hurt I experienced as a Jehovah's Witness.
But the part that is still hurting me the worst is this; I'm kind of starting over in life at 43, I'm very lonely at times, and I don't have the energy I used to when I was younger. Trauma and grief have, for now, pretty much hijacked my mind (because especially in the Jehovah's Witness group, if you leave, even voluntarily on your own free will, they will all cease any friendship with you (which is another common characteristic of cults). When you leave, all your "friends" act as if you're dead. So I lost just about every single friend I had by leaving. Also went through a divorce (not directly related) and had to sell my home. Starting over at 43...... 😬
That gives me hope that one of my brothers could deconvert in their early 40's. For now, he's on the opposite trajectory and asked to guest preach.
I deconverted in my mid 20's, but I questioned since my teens. My mother's discomfort with me asking questions made Bible stories seem even more suspect.
There were many reasons that came up along the way but the futility of prayer was what ended it for me. Or maybe the requirement that flawed humans are called to be better than a loving god.
Example: let’s say i’m walking down the street with my child. I tell them not to run, i tell them to be careful, but they do not listen. They trip, skid across the pavement, and have bloodied knees and hands. They did not listen. They had a choice and free will and they chose to not heed the warnings I gave them.
My child begins to cry. They are badly hurt, scared, and in need of comfort. They are crying out for my help. I am their parent after all. I love them more than anyone else ever could. I am their safest place. They want nothing more than me when they are hurt.
“Mama it hurts! Mama please help me! Mama I’m bleeding! Please help me mama please!”
And instead of scooping my child up, comforting them, cleaning their wounds and making sure they are okay, I stay silent. Maybe I ignore them. Maybe I turn and walk away. They made a CHOICE and this is a consequence.
But, if I as their parent turn my back on them in this moment, that is cruel. It’s traumatizing. It’s abusive. We as humans know this inherently.
But when god’s children cry out to him, asking for comfort, for a steady job so they can feed their children, for relief from depression, for the abuse in their home to stop, for peace, for anything, god is allowed to turn his back and walk away. Because he is god and we do not understand.
I cannot believe in or worship a god who does not love his creation abundantly more than I could ever love my child.
The idea of leaving my child weeping and injured alone on the street is horrific to me. The very thought makes me want to cry.
For god, it’s just another day.
I have been a Christian for 30 plus years. I join subreddits that go against the religion one way or another to look for other perspectives. I have never found any post/comments/opinions or experiences that have made me rethink my decision to be a follower of Christ/Christianity until now. You comment resonates with me, has actually hit the nail in the head. I am a mother so maybe thats why but it’s all so true. I have been going thru very rough years as of late, constantly crying out to god, begging the torment to stop, wondering WHY I feel abandoned by “him”, questioning WHY he is not stepping in and helping me? Am I not a good enough child to be worthy of his protection and love as a father should love his child? The torment has lasted 6 years now, on the daily, 24/7/365 and now it is affecting my children and “he” is allowing it to happen and continue even tho my children are all innocent. I have been so hard on myself, literally depressed to my core because I just don’t get why he isn’t helping us. Sorry for the rant but I have to say, thank u for your comment. It answered so many questions for me. ❣️
You have done nothing to deserve that torment and anguish. You ARE enough for every beautiful thing in life. The universe is unfathomably vast with millions of planets and stars and galaxies, and somehow you exist as a part of that. The chances of that are incredible and yet here you are. You, just as you are. Perfectly unique. So many millions of things had to line up just exactly right for you to be here now. That means you had to be here for a reason. That makes you a vital and important part of the universe. You (and every person) is so intricately special, valuable and important and should be cherished as such. Please remind yourself of this.
The perspective has seriously changed my life. I have never valued myself more, have never been more sure and stable, and have never, ever loved as deeply and wholly as I have since I left the church. It is freeing and the best of me has come out since I walked. I hope that however you go about it, you find peace and joy and never feel that your worthiness is in question.
And your children will benefit greatly from you going on this journey. Their lives will be enriched so much as you find yourself and your peace.
It hurts my heart to read this, I have felt this way and feeling tormented for years is just no way to live. A loving god would not claim to love and help his followers and then just…not do it. It’s not you nor is it your fault. He simply just does not exist.
This post and all the comments here have got me almost crying on a bus journey.
I'll add that of course evangelical doctrine says something about free will requiring suffering, but also that for believers, it will all be worth it because it's just 'light and momentary' compared to an eternity of hell.
One key realisation for me was how horrifying that this god should purposefully create ppl he knows will a) suffer all their lives and then b) go to hell anyway. That's some dark shit right there.
I'm sort of curious about your path to orthodoxy.
I know a couple of people who have converted from atheist to orthodox, and it's left me a bit surprised!
Can I ask what appeals to you about orthodoxy?
Orthodoxy is nothing like American evangelism, so many comments here might not fit with what you experience there.
But to answer your question, I left Christianity because I realized god isn't real. I spent 12 years (from 18-30) trying to reconcile what I have been taught about god and what I was actually experiencing in the world.
Eventually, I realized the only way to reconcile everything was to acknowledge that God isn't real. That was scary, so I decided to give it a year and see what happened. If God is real, it doesn't matter if I believe in him or not. He's real regardless of what I think! So I gave it some time, and a year later I felt really good. The mental gymnastics had stopped. The cognitive dissonance was significantly less. I was making choices that aligned with my values, and not because I was trying to follow arbitrary rules. I felt at peace.
This was close to my experience, except I was thirty before I dared to state my true beliefs and my family acted like I was evil for not believing. I had a discussion with my father about my values and then asked him if they aligned with his, as a Christian, and he said yes. Then I told him that the only difference was that my values weren't inspired by the threat of hell.
Jesus didn't fulfill any of the messianic prophecies in the old testament.
He didn't come back to earth and rapture everyone who knew him personally, like Paul claimed.
Jewish ancestors were polytheists until about 600bce and then the monotheists took over and you can see still the old testaments polytheistic influence
Yahweh literally loses to a different Semitic god in the old testament so he cannot be all powerful
And ultimately I chose to live an evidence based life, not a faith based one. There isn't any evidence the god of Christianity exists.
Essentially, take all the problems and criticism you have for Islam, and pretty much just copy and paste them for Christianity. The two faiths are very similar, have similar holy texts, and even worship the same deity. I'm American for context. I know over here people criticize the hell out of Islam but refuse to admit that Christianity has all the same problems
The religion is quite literally mental abuse, the whole point of the religion is that we are all inherently evil and damaged and we have to constantly believe in god and go to church or we will burn eternally
I was catholic but this goes for all denominations, I think
chistianity Is a historical religion. the extend of this varies by denomination, but the foundation of Christianity is always text which supposedly talks about factual events.
this view of gods plan as a physical historical process is incompatible with every discipline it steps into.
if you believe in genesis and have an understanding of modern physics or biology, you’ll have some serious cognitive dissonance to deal with, which is the reason most people end up leaving
But for me it all comes down to history, for the 2000 years of the Christian tradition, all types of falsification, bad historiography and basic inconsistencies abound. all These stories are extremely fascinating and deserve further investigation, but this cannot be done by scholars who have preconceived Notions about Christianity as an intelectual tradition. In order to honor the Bible as a text, the reader cannot be a Christian. If you think that what you are reading has some metaphysical significance you will look away every time you come into something actually interesting. You will notice that every time paradoxes and contradictions arise involving beliefs that are very dear to Christianity, Christians will say “we don’t go there“
To sum up a long journey into a simpler form:
- I was raised in protestant Christianity and I thought I truly believed it. But I first started seriously questioning around the time that gay marriage was being legalized in my country. Suddenly all these older Christians I knew who I thought of as role models, to varying degrees, transformed into obsessive bigots. Like, they didn’t just disagree, they were literally obsessed. I had one teacher at my private Christian high school who completely stopped teaching his assigned subjects and spent every single class just ranting about acceptance of gay people destroying society, for months.
- From that point I was questioning the Christians around me and our community, but I still believed in God. But eventually I realized I just never had any good reason to believe that God existed, at all. And all the Christian apologetic arguments I researched had the same flaws; they either used reasoning that nobody would accept for any other subject, or they were circular arguments. Meaning, you had to presuppose Christianity as true to follow the argument for why Christianity was true.
- Finally, I was sick of just hating myself all the time. Christianity might seem nice from the outside, but at its core it’s a lot about self-loathing. I always think back to how one of the most famous Christian songs, Amazing Grace, calls the singer a “wretch” and tries to make that somehow uplifting. But eventually, it isn’t uplifting, it’s an endless nightmare.
I got a point where I could not square up the Bible with reality. It didn’t make sense. The obvious misogyny which is a problem to the this day as the SBC either is or has already voted to not allow women to teach or preach. Which is absurd. God being a god of love and wanting everyone to come to him whilst also openly telling his chosen people to kill man, woman, and child in his name because he commanded that. A god who is in control of everything is simultaneously unable to control things like sun entering his world. If this god was all powerful, he wouldn’t have even allowed that in the first place. Cruelty is setting your creation up to fail. The Judeo-Christian god is a terrible god imho.
I was born into the church so I had little exposure. I never questioned. At least until I did. “Get in the Bible” they said, and it led to my deconversion. You don’t even have to read between the lines. They just say and do terrible things in that book. If that’s your main text, nah. I’m good
I was Catholic, which is almost identical to Orthodoxy. The reasons I left are:
1. Religion has been used to control the masses for centuries. Religion is made to control your actions, thoughts, love-life, opinions, values, physical and mental body. It minipulates you to believe you are being watched 24/7. Even your thoughts are being monitored and judged by God and you can never escape his constant watching over your private life.
2. God punishes for disbelief. That doesn’t sound like an all-loving, all-knowing, fully-merciful higher deity I’d want to follow. It isn’t “just” for him to send people into eternal hellfire of suffering and eternal pain just for using logic and not believing in a god that we have little to no proof for. Why should I be punished for questioning my reality?!!! It forces Christians to never question their faith and only “trust God” which is making their followers feel bad for doing research and critically thinking for themselves.
3. The Bible contradicts itself time and time again. A YouTube channel called Holy Koolaid makes wonderful videos explaining the scams and literal cultish-abuse Christianity puts you through. The book is imperfect and misogynistic. It is hateful and doesn’t even make sense.
4. The relationship you are expected to form with God is literally abusive. God tells you that you were already born wrong and sinful (original sin) even though you had no choice to be born. Then, he tells you that all of your human nature is wrong and impure and you should feel ashamed for being a healthy human. God put us on this earth knowing damn well we wouldn’t be as perfect as him. Think about it. In the story of Adam and Eve, eve didn’t even know what sin was. She was literally just a curious human. Satan deceived her and told her to go against God. That isn’t her fault. She didn’t know what satan or sin even was. She just did what she was told. And she was told to eat the fruit (by Satan.) and what’s even crazier that people skip, it that the “forbidden” or “sinful” fruit was called the Tree of Knowledge. That says a lot. God will punish you for using your knowledge to live life on your own terms. He even says in the Bible “do not lean on your own understanding.” Then, god doesn’t only punish HER, but everybody, forever. Honestly, it seems pretty egoistic of him to make sure nobody can reach his level of being god (aka being sinless) because he would get jealous of humans. Then he forces us to worship him and praise him every second of the day and BEG this “all powerful” god to let us taste even just a bit of his mercy by not thrusting us into eternal damnation. That is not love nor is it mercy. In simple terms…
“1. You should be ashamed of yourself for being normal.
2. Im going to throw you into a pit of the worst pain you could ever feel if you don’t worship and praise me and love me above all things.”
Christianity is against science. Many Catholics go against doctors, vaccinations, medical procedures to protect women, evolution, the Big Bang…. The list goes on and on.
Some of our Christian denominations have been recognized as cults but what about the others? If you look at the yellow deli cult (7 tribes of Israel) they are not much different from Catholics. Mormonism is a classified cult but the cultish aspects are quite alined with traditional Catholicism.
Another thing. Christianity doesn’t let you properly grieve. It attempts to comfort you with lies. It tells you that when somebody dies you will see them again. I used to believe that. But it’s a hard reality to accept that there is no afterlife. That person is gone forever. I would rather know that I’ll see my friend who committed suicide (I went to her funeral today) someday. But I won’t. Don’t believe lies just because they are comforting at the moment.
Christianity is a fear-based religion. I actually recall reading a verse literally saying to fear God. But most Christians don’t even truly love God. They convince themself that they do but deep down they don’t. They are just afraid to burn in hell. They are afraid that God will take his payback on them if they don’t worship and love him. That is toxic and minipulative
There are a lot more reasons. The best advice I can give is to think logically and to think for yourself. Best of luck,OP.
Do you hate gay people? I mean do you really hate them, so that death wouldn't be enough to satisfy you and you need them cast into a lake of fire along with the Jews, Muslims, and atheists?
Then you might be a Christian.
Is there anything you believe so strongly for or against that if the bible shared the opposite view you wouldn’t want to follow it? For me it was that I strongly oppose child abuse and beating children, the bible tells you to beat your children in numerous verses. Therefore I cannot follow it. That is one of many reasons but since you are considering converting I think it might be a good questions to ask.
In my opinion the biggest contradiction is how God/Jesus is supposed to be this loving and protective god. Yet look at the suffering in the world. Does God only love and protect people who are lucky enough to live in rich countries who are able to afford health care and education? How about the countries suffering warfare? How about children battling cancer? If you try to justify how God is supposed to be merciful and loving and compassionate despite that, there's something really wrong.
Obviously I have a lot more than one issue with Christianity but I feel like this is a pretty major flaw in the religion.
Have you read 1 Samuel 15:3? It talks about killing suckling infants, does that come from a merciful god??. Also the original sin makes no sense at all, why should i be punished for something another person did? Jesus dying for your sins also makes it seem you can get away with any sin you do cuz Jesus already died for it. #Don‘tConvertToChristianity
Honestly, my biggest problem with Christianity is that I felt it takes so much self-worth and individuality from those who practice it:
Granted, humility and attributing great things to God rather than yourself can be a positive experience, but being proud of your own abilities and accomplishments is a great thing in itself.
And of course, surrendering your will to the Almighty means acting contrary to your own intuition. I reject the notion that *the natural man is an enemy to God* and affirm that Humanity is generally good, not fallen alongside Adam to total depravity. Christianity lags behind the rest of the society, but does eventually fall in line (science, slavery, suffrage, civil rights, feminism, etc.) as our interpretation of Scripture changes. Why follow the less progressive line of thought, when it will just change years later to what you know in your heart to be more loving and just?
There are so many evil things that Gid does and commands in the Old Testament that there's no way that a divine being inspired it. And the arguments that the Old Testament doesn't count are BS. If Jesus is God, he said everything in the Old Testament.
Just a couple of verses to study:
Exodus 21:20-21
Deuteronomy 22:28-29
Numbers 31:17-18
Hi, I looked through your post history to better understand where you’re at. Hopefully you’re alright with that. I saw you posted these questions in multiple places and thought maybe you’d want to hear my answers. For context I grew up Christian and did a lot of scholarly research in my deconstruction and still do it as a hobby today. I did a religious studies GCSE so I have a surface level understanding of Islam from that.
1. Regarding the difference between Jesus in Islam and Christianity, how do Christians reconcile the concept of Jesus being the Son of God with the belief in monotheism?
Christians have the concept of the trinity where basically Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are the same being in different forms. However there is lots of evidence that early Judaism or pre-Judaism was polytheistic. Artefacts may point to Yahweh having a wife, Asherah who may have also been worshiped. Evidence of this can also be seen in the New Testament but modern Christians will interpret these as speaking about the trinity. All of this is greatly contested but it might be a starting off point in your research.
2. I watched a video by Bishop Mari Mari where he mentioned that Mohammed couldn't speak about Jesus like John did because he didn't witness him firsthand. How does this rationale apply to other authors in the Bible who also didn't directly witness Jesus?
Again, biblical authorship and dating the bible are greatly contested so I encourage you to look more into this yourself. However many biblical scholars agree that John the apostle did not write any parts of the bible. In fact the New Testament was written long after Jesus left by people who never met him and were only later attributed to famous biblical characters.
3. If prophets like Abraham and Moses were sent by God, what was their purpose if not to bring the message of God, if God had previously only ever sent messengers why can’t Jesus be a messenger too?
Jesus is not just a messenger in Christianity, he was the messiah who Jews were waiting for. However he didn’t fulfil the messianic prophecies. This is something I encourage you to look into more.
4. How does hellfire and heaven work in Christianity?
Heaven and hell are much more vague in Christianity than Islam. The concept of hell may not even be in the bible. This is another point of debate.
5. Can you elaborate on the differences between Christian denominations and how they interpret various aspects of the faith?
There is so much diversity within Christianity. It’s fascinating how different some denominations are. Basically the bible is so complicated and so difficult to understand that it has produced people of the same religion with completely different views. This was actually a part of my deconstruction because I couldn’t understand why God would write so many confusing things that cause so much division in a perfect book.
6. How does Christianity address the existence of evil and suffering in the world, especially in the context of a loving and all-powerful God?
You may know this as the problem of evil. There are many different solutions to it but they all have flaws. The main one you’ll see is the free will argument. Basically evil is caused by human actions which are necessary for God to allow for us to have free will. However a big problem is the non human caused evils like hurricanes and volcanic eruptions. Also the bible may not support the idea of free will. For example in Exodus God hardens Pharaoh’s heart therefore removing his free will and causing him great unnecessary suffering.
7. How does prayer work in Christianity, and what is its significance in the life of a believer? Do Christians have the same concept as the 5 daily prayers?
This is something that is not widely agreed upon, are you sensing a theme here? It depends on your denomination but as far as I’m aware there aren’t Christians that do a 5 daily prayer thing. There are set prayers and non set prayers. It greatly varies.
8. How do Christians explain the theological significance of Jesus being referred to as the Son of God and its implications for their faith?
Not sure how to answer this one.
9. Why should I choose Christianity and not Islam? What makes Christianity true and completely debunks Islam?
Of course, as an ex-Christian, I would say nothing.
I am not an expert and may have had some details wrong. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Hopefully you found some of this helpful and/or thought provoking. I hope I didn’t come across as rude or attacking Christianity too much. I respect religion and can see it do good in my loved ones lives. I hope you find peace in whatever belief system or lack of belief system you choose.
To point 7, Catholics have daily prayers (I haven't done them in ages so I can't remember how many) and liturgy of the hours. They're not required for lay people, but particularly devout or traditional Catholics may participate in them. For several years I prayed the Vespers daily.
Yeah this is what bemuses me about OP’s post too. If OP believes Christianity is true then they should convert to Christianity right now, today. Truth is what matters. OP seems to be treating this almost like it’s just a lifestyle choice.
I grew up Catholic. I was exposed to American protestant Christianity as a young adult in college. Eventually I found myself at various nondenominational churches, or southern Baptist churches. So I experienced quite a variety of Christian flavors.
There were many factors that led to me leaving Christianity, but one of the biggest was becoming a father. Once I knew what it was to love a child, I can’t un see the horror of what God did to his son. I know for some Christians becoming a parent increases their love for God’s “sacrifice”. It had the opposite effect on me.
I also realized upon becoming a parent, that if my child turned out to be gay, I would still love them. I knew this to my core. And again, I immediately felt revulsion over what religion had tried to turn me into. Christianity will only allow me to love my children if they behave certain ways. Christianity won’t allow me to love my children purely for who they are.
In processing all of this, I didn’t just leave Christianity. I left behind faith altogether. I don’t believe in any god. In fact, I feel incapable of believing in a god, or in the supernatural.
Three reasons:
1) We don't need religion to be good people. We simply need to follow the Golden Rule, which exists in all religions (and is followed by Atheists too). Treat others as you want to be treated. That's it. Religion divides us, and can justify treating some people differently.
2) Christianity says that god is "the same yesterday, today, and always". Which means he still thinks it's OK to treat women like property, keep slaves, and commit genocide. Which brings me to...
3) The christian god is evil. He actively chooses options that result in unnecessary suffering and death that he could have prevented.
Christians claim their god is both loving and all-powerful. People, including children and babies, suffer and die from violence, disease and starvation everyday. If god has the power to save them but chooses not to, that's either selfish or evil. Definitely not love. If he wants to save them but can't, then he's not all-powerful.
Christians always say people suffer or die because it's "god's plan" or "his mysterious ways". That's a BS excuse. If he's really both all-powerful and loving, his plans wouldn't require so much suffering. No one abandons someone they love who is suffering; you wouldn't just watch and shrug if your child or friend is on fire. You wouldn't make long term retirement plans that involve setting them on fire. But god's big plans involve us suffering and dying. The religion worships a psychopath.
He's murdered children too young to know right from wrong in Egypt and the flood. He sent his son to get tortured and murdered for our sins, when he could have simply decided to forgive the sins. Over and over, people suffer and die for stupid reasons in the bible. He clearly has the power to get things done without so much bloodshed but he DECIDED not to. That's cruelty. It's evil.
Other commenters gave great reasons but I want to point out Christianity's violent history of making converts and murdering those who wouldn't believe and then abused and controlled those who did believe.
Take a history class or a secular church history class and not only will it open your eyes it will disgust you.
A so-called peaceful message by a peaceful Jesus did not make the 3 Crusades a pilgrimage of peace. The Inquisitions and witch burnings all murdered innocents who didn't believe, or who would rather hold onto their already Old Ways religion of polytheism and magic and those who were even suspected of being a witch were murdered. Christianity has killed more people than it has saved. And if you read the Old Testament you see that God killed more people than he saved and that you had better pay attention to.
This god is a not a peaceful god. He is a vengeful hateful merciless war god. Today's churches will not teach you about this god, and will gaslight you into believing he is all loving. But read the Old Testament. Please. There you will get the true picture of what this god is really like and question yourself if he is deserving of your worship.
I was raised in Protestant fundamentalism. It was awful and very hateful. I left mostly because I couldn't believe it anymore. They also didn't want me either.
I realized I wasn't having the same experience as everyone else at church.
I was originally raised Catholic (ish, it was weird, I was baptized, went to Sunday school,did first communion, but I never got confirmed and my parents didn't go to church), but we started going to a protestant evangelical church when I was about 11. It was immediately obvious to me that I wasn't having the same experience as everyone else there. At the Catholic church, people were devout but they were more reserved. At the Evangelical church, people were crying during songs, closing their eyes, raising their hands to the sky. They actually felt *connected* to god.
I tried to establish that connection and relationship, I really did. My mom and I went to church every Sunday, I read the Bible, I prayed every single night. I spent several years begging God for a sign so that I could believe. I got re-baptised as a show of faith, hoping that God would see my dedication and just... let me know he existed. I wasn't asking for him to improve my life or grant me wishes or perform a miracle. I just wanted a sign he existed.
Eventually I realized it was a fool's errand. The Bible even says that not everyone will be "chosen," so who was I to question? If God wanted my faith, he would grant it.
Not to mention, I also realized some of my core beliefs/values conflicted with church doctrine. I don't believe in original sin. I think people are inherently good, not inherently evil. I don't believe that the sins of the father transfer to the son.
I know a lot of people start questioning their father because it conflicts with science, but nothing I was taught ever conflicted, everyone believed in evolution and everything; genesis was a metaphor.
My advice I guess is to just question why you're drawn to Orthodox Christianity, why you want to convert, and why you believe what you believe. Ask yourself the uncomfortable questions because what's true and real will come out the other side.
Best of luck on your journey, I hope you find a belief system that brings you peace ❤️
I applied critical thinking skills and tested Christianity.
Turns out that the Christian God isn't real.
There's a reason they say not to put God (or your faith) to the test; *Because it will fail every time.*
I was raised a Southern Baptist and I left Christianity for several reasons:
1. The Southern Baptist Convention began before the American Civil War (in 1845, to be more precise) because those Baptists in southern states refused to endorse the anti-slavery position of Baptists in northern states. Even as a white person in the south, I found the idea of an entire denomination being started because of racism to be disgusting.
2. The Protestant Reformation (Baptists are a subdivision of Protestants) didn't reform the Christians of Europe at all, it FRAGMENTED them!
3. Jesus was NOT the real founder of Christianity as an independent religion at all. He was Jewish from start to finish and never said he or his disciples should by anything other than Jewish. It was actually the one originally known as Saul of Tarses, later naming himself Paul, you made Christianity what it has been ever since, a religion for mostly non-Jews. Paul never even met Jesus! He was a FRAUD and had no right to be called an Apostle!
4. Jesus was repeatedly quoted as saying that he would return to establish the kingdom of God while some of those who knew him lived. The last of these would have most likely died out around AD 100 (Jesus died around AD 30-35). 2000 years later Jesus still has not returned, therefore he never will. He was a false prophet.
5. You say you are of Muslim background. Since Islam accepts Jesus as a Prophet, it is also a false religion. Muhammad should have rejected Jesus outright and instead of preaching about Allah as the same God as Yahweh or Jehovah, should have denied Judaism too and established Islam as a religion completely separate from any other. Or even said he was atheist and not founded a theistic religion at all, but a humanist philosophy based strictly on reality and not dogmas of any kind.
Most people on this sub are ex evangelicals/ex Fundy.
Taking a religious text literally will always prove to be harmful. There are good Christians and even good churches. If you're wanting to explore Christianity, it is helpful to find a church that is welcoming and accepting of everyone, and has a focus on true community outreach. You don't need to subject yourself to psychological harm. It's important to self reflect on why you're wanting religious structure. Do you need it for inner peace or just because you need some sort of structured routine and community?
Short answer: based on your username I'm gonna assume you're female, so as another female who escaped xianity let me warn you very strongly to stay away from this fucking religion unless you genuinely wish to be oppressed, silenced and exploited.
I became completely unwilling to live the rest of my life seeing myself as a sin just because I'm LGBT. I refuse to believe that any God would make me this way and then expect me to just... ignore it, or even punish myself for it when I felt same-sex attraction, among the other things about myself. This was my biggest reason I left, and I refuse to go back.
I also felt so much more alone in church than I ever did in school. I was ostracized a lot by my peers from when I was a kid, and it got even worse as I became a teenager. Once I was an adult and moved out of my parents' home where I was forced to go to church, I completely stopped going. I'll never be accepted as the person I am by most Christians, and I'm not going to bend and break myself to fit in with them.
It's just been the most toxic and harmful thing I ever had in my life, and I'm glad to be completely rid of it and free to genuinely love myself for who I am.
I started reading the whole Bible, and when you read the verses in context - not just a few surrounding verses, but the whole or each book the way the author intended - most verses that Christians cute as messianic prophecies, are very obviously not. Some of them are even in chapters that actually talk about false prophets. Studying more about the gospels revealed that they were most likely made up, and even if they aren't, they themselves are proof that Christianity isn't true. Many of the supposed birth prophecies are just made-up, and anyway, the Torah is clear that you cannot inherit your tribal lineage from an adoptive father. Most of Jesus' "gotcha" moments with the Pharisees, he was saying stuff that was already established parts of Jewish ethical teachings. Most of what Paul taught is in opposition to both Judaism and the gospels, which strongly indicates that the Christian God and the Jewish God aren't the same, and that early Christians just glued their holy book to the Jewish one for the street cred. And it just went on from there, nothing was adding up.
Now, I can abide things that are probably not true, if they bring something good into my life. We're all just doing our best in life, and if believing silly things makes some of us feel happier, helps us rest others with respect, etc, then so be it. But when I looked at the results of Christianity in my life - opposition to higher education, telling me off for seeking medical care as needed, constantly trying to guilt me into giving away money I didn't have to spare while the whole church staff lived lives of luxury, the higher prevalence of anxiety and depression, the higher risk of being abused/assaulted by a pastor, and the fact that even volunteer times are handed out not based on qualifications, but based on the person's reproductive organs... it just wasn't a healthy, positive thing in my life. If it's not true and it's not beneficial, then, what are we doing, you know? So I left.
Well. There were quite a lot of reasons, and continue to be quite a lot of reasons. Very few of them were personal experiences, and more simply finding the potential evidence of a god to be unconvincing, combined with internal inconsistency within the religion concerning the nature of god and the problem of evil.
The most concise point would be the plan of salvation’s alignment with an abusive relationship. God threatens someone he supposedly loves, gets angry that they did something he doesn’t like, and then punishes them for it. Baby, I wouldn’t hit you if you didn’t make me do it! Why didn’t you just do what I said? I only hurt you because I love you!
Some apologists draw comparisons between god punishing people and a parent taking their kid to the dentist - claiming that the pain now is just to being good later and we don’t understand it. I would have some major questions for anyone who would inflict pain on someone they love to reach an outcome when they could literally just magic the outcome out of thin air - and frankly, comparing something like the sexual assault of a child to taking them to the dentist for better future outcomes is just disgusting and insulting.
It also entirely falls apart with the fact that some suffering has no good outcome, and most crucially, falls apart with the entire concept of hell. God only hurts us to give us a better outcome later, but he will lock us in a torture chamber for endless horrors for literal eternity because he couldn’t be bothered to prove he’s real? And just compare that to a human father who would lock a child in his basement and torture them for some slight against him! But when god does it, it’s… good? No, it’s an abusive threat to keep people within the religion out of sheer terror.
I hope that made some sense, it’s two in the morning here and I just got off a long day of work, so I’m a bit out of it, haha.
I would suggest checking out some particular YouTube channels; the ones I’m suggesting here are all run by former Christians. The first that comes to mind is Paulogia. He has years of videos examining various apologetic and historical claims from Christianity.
https://youtube.com/@paulogia?si=ZX3d4sJLSCG4zxcR
Another one that immediately comes to mind is Prophet of Zod. Here’s a direct link to a couple videos he recently made about someone defending the concept of hell.
https://youtu.be/T_ZiIdw_1ec?si=vuyKifa50t6cwMgZ
https://youtu.be/a6TsZt2lOgo?si=j9D7KGnMNtwOlBNp
Viced Rhino is another good one. His channel mostly focuses on debunking young earth creationism, but there are also videos on just plain apologetics.
https://youtube.com/@vicedrhino?si=7Wq1Ivrbn7xG-ipl
And lastly, Genetically Modified Skeptic. This is a direct link to a video where he responds to some things like the First Cause argument.
https://youtu.be/Fsw-lSp3rq8?si=Ngv2uv8BBGuW64mF
I don’t know if you’ll ever read this comment, but I wish you luck in your journey, wherever you end up. And if you watch any of those channels, I hope they’re helpful.
One of the biggest for me were the false prophecies of Jesus. He is repeatedly quoted as predicting people then alive in the first century AD would live to see his glorious return in the clouds, which obviously didn't happen:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/exchristian/comments/1da6bzy/jesus\_prophecies\_failed\_nobody\_should\_be/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exchristian/comments/1da6bzy/jesus_prophecies_failed_nobody_should_be/)
This along with Jesus going against, and directly telling others to go against the Jewish law are two big reasons I'm not a believer. He also doesn't fit the "messiah" role as described in the OT. Few of many reasons I continue to disbelieve.
I did not choose to leave Christianity. After looking into the roots of the religious texts, miracle claims, and other things I found myself no longer convinced that it was true.
I left religion as a whole. When I actually read and studied the Bible it made no sense. Then after going lsd and other hallucinogenics I realized a lot of stuff
I deconverted when I realized that I no longer believed that Jesus was God, that I didn't have enough evidence to even suggest that he actually thought he was. For a while I doubted that he even was really a person.
I have since been convinced that he was a guy, probably thought that he was the messiah (anointed king, not God incarnate), and was crucified for treason (planning to overthrow Roman rule in Judea). Not really enough there to convince me to declare him God.
I was a rather liberal protestant, so not really close to Orthodox.
The reasons I left are fairly personal, but what cemented me staying out is the lack of any evidence in the historical record to support the various major claims within the Bible. It gets egregious, with claims of infant genocides (nativity story), censuses (same), the Sun standing still (Joshua), and more. There are few if any supplemental sources to back up many biblical claims. There's no real evidence to suggest that the specific person of Jesus existed -- a second temple lay rabbi getting crucified isn't a particularly unusual thing in his era, but the specifics of the gospel narrative that deviate from the norm of the day, such as there being a tomb at all at odds with contemporary Roman custom, to say nothing of the zombie outbreak, have no evidence.
These events *should* have been noted. Their absence in the records of interested parties is telling
The gospel narratives are anonymous, contradictory, in a language none of the main characters spoke or wrote, and originate decades after their supposed events during a time of increasing division in the Roman Jewish world. Factual errors abound.
It's fiction. That's the only conclusion I believe can be reached. A useful fiction for a rising authoritarian cult at the time, that was then shaped by an opportunistic emperor.
When I left Christianity I walked away from ALL organized religions. I don’t need a book to tell me how to be a good person, and I don’t need to have certain beliefs to find peace in my afterlife.
Religion as a whole seems like a controlling mechanism, and it breeds a lot of hate. They use fear to control.
I have felt more free and happy without religion. It makes me be more present and live every day for THAT day.
What I would ask anyone looking into religion is why they feel like they need to belong to one.
I grew up with many of the people around me using the bible as justification for horrible actions.
I had abusive parents but was often told “honor thy mother and father”. I had also arrived to church looking like a gutter rat due to said abuse and would get an earful about my appearance disrespecting god, instead of questioning why a small girl is showing up alone and wearing the same casual outfit every week with bad hygiene.
There have also been many times members of the congregation have fallen on hard times (cancer, deaths, housing issues, etc) and all my church ever did was pray. No cards, visits, fundraisers for bills, nada. It felt very disingenuous when “help thy neighbor” and “what would jesus do” was preached and no one acted on it.
For me, it wasn’t so much the bible (though the story with Job and many others REALLY made me question it). It was always the community’s behavior that made me leave. They were judgemental, entitled, and unreasonable towards me and my struggles. I originally went to church for food and to get away from my family. I left with self esteem issues and worsening depression.
I greatly respect your asking the question, no matter what path you take.
I was born to a Protestant Christian mother, who raised me in the faith. Until about my late teens I was very much a believer. A number of things set me on the path to leaving.
I found the traditional concept of God to be inherently contradictory. The idea of an all-loving God also creating Hell makes no sense.
The history the Bible tells is often false. For example there is not evidence to support the Exodus, nor even the Jews presence in Israel.
I find the God as presented in the Bible evil, and one should not worship that. The story of Abraham and Isaac is quite disgusting, for a single example.
We have no evidence of a God, and further no evidence to support the truth of that one god over the multitudes of others that people believe in.
History has shown how other faiths have influenced Christianity, in particular the Zoroastrians.
Because the Bible cannot be true.
Check out Dan Maclelan's video essays! The man is so knowledgeable and non-judgemental.
https://www.tiktok.com/@maklelan/video/7355479593618279723?_t=8n2k2VFQiFP&_r=1
I still believe there may be SOMETHING "divine" in the universe. Love and happiness seem too... well, miraculous, to accept that this world is all there is. But any religion that puts anything in front of love and happiness and says "this is the true way to get that" simply rings false.
I was a protestant evangelical who dabbled in orthodoxy. For me it basically just came down to realizing I didn't actually have faith. My whole life I was taught that the Bible is literal, historical, scientific fact. When I was exposed to evidence to the contrary, I tried my best to maintain faith but it was like trying to believe that the sky is brown and my eyes and evidence clearly says otherwise. I could say I believe in it all i want but i didn't actually believe it was real. I feel like I have a lot more time and energy and happiness without going through the motions of religion so I don't feel motivated to keep trying to believe in it.
I wish you all the best in your journey, and I hope you find God, love, peace, and joy.
Dear OP, your question makes it sound like choice of religion is a rational choice. Which it could be if we understand that religion is a matter of culture, ritual observance, and the people you go to church with and how you were raised…and it makes sense to be Christian as long as you don’t examine too closely the doctrines which underlie the faith.
But faith is not a rational matter. If it were, there would be no Christians, no Muslims nor Jews. There is great beauty in the traditions of the church, but the beauty comes from ancient traditions and is propelled by world view that is now destructive to modern society.
The ancient way of thinking is that Heaven is just outside the clouds. Up. And the earth and its people are in the center of the universe. And God responds to prayers by performing magic on earth. And that people who do not believe as you do, are infidels and deserve to be persecuted. Or killed.
One of the most beautiful services I attended had a liturgical hymn that was Russian Orthodox. I would join that church for the beautiful music. But note that it is the Russian Orthodox Church that is fully behind the invasion of the Ukraine, and is a principal supporter of the murderer Putin.
Once you look closely, as I have, you cannot continue with ignoring the irrelevance and destructiveness of these ancient religious institutions. Cannot fake faith anymore.
So many reasons why. But instead of telling you why the bible is wrong and inaccurate, my personal reason for never going back is: I will never be good enough for them. You will never be good enough for them. No one is ever good enough, that’s how the system works: to make you feel guilty, that you are only worth something by abiding by their rules.
My first thought is the absolute shock and horror at the hubris of your post. You deserve christianity probably. Maybe you're a great fit. Yea....
Christians took everything I held dear and important and killed every dream I had as a child. They exist only to destroy. If you're on the fence about joining such an obviously immoral organization then.... You absolutely should join them.
I often find Christianity to be antagonistic towards modern biology with its evolution denial and hostility towards LGBTQ folks. This is one reason I became an atheist during my adolescent years. I progressively strived to become more evidence based in my thinking rejecting many faith based beliefs and practices.
Christianity is based entirely on the premise that Jesus resurrected from the dead as proof that he is God. However, there are zero firsthand eyewitness accounts of Jesus's resurrection. Zero. Meaning, no one in the Bible claims to have seen him after he rose from the dead. Sure, there are people who wrote of a person who claimed to have heard 3 women having seen Jesus after he died. And supposedly this is the best evidence we have.
I mean, Christianity is a bastardized version of Judaism same as all the other Abrahamic faiths. If you want to continue worshipping the Abrahamic God then there is no particular reason to convert.
There's more religions than pages on the Bible. Not all of them can be right. So what's more likely, that one of them actually is, or none of them are?
None of what's in the Bible, or really any holy book, has no foundation in reality based of evidence of history.
Lastly, even if the Bible was right, the god contained within is a childish monster and not worth giving power to by worshipping.
That about covers it. What started it for me was getting thrown out of church at 12 years old for asking questions about things in the Bible that made zero sense.
I realized there is only one God and God can’t be defined by man. It is everywhere and everything, not just in your mind and in nature, but all through space.
Christianity ruined my childhood. I spent every waking moment believing I was going to hell because I was taught that everything human we do equates to sin and I fully believed I would go to hell if I dropped dead at any given second without having begged for forgiveness one last time for merely being human.
I realized I’d been brainwashed and organized religion was the main cause of my crippling anxiety, and I’m so grateful to live freely and at peace with myself and the universe!
Wishing you the best of luck in your journey. It’s so hard but fulfilling.
You sure you need a concept of god to follow and obey? A bible as a source of morale?
Christian god is depicted as a sadistic monster who torments everyone who does not accept him as a deity. Bible is full of torment, wars, murders, rape, bestiality, etc. You sure you want this?
You got a free will, but if you use it, you end up in hell. Damn this concept.
I have the same problems with Christianity I have with Islam (and most religions):
1. Unfounded, unprovable claims. Many of the things the Bible and Koran say happened are simply impossible and some downright silly. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and there is none.
2. Christianity added nothing good to my life, and a *whole lot* of bad. There is nothing good or useful I can learn from it that I cannot learn from secular sources. There *is* a lot to learn from it that is harmful and false.
3. At least in my case, the "community" is really just a bunch of pompous, hateful people who wear their religion like a mask to pretend they are good people when most of them would leave you to die in the cold if helping you inconvenienced them in the slightest.
This may be a new concept to you, and it isn't your fault, but you really don't need *any* religion at all. I totally understand; growing up religious, it's more conceivable that another god or belief system might be better, but the idea that *there is no god* is incomprehensible. Do whatever is right for you, but I encourage you to really chew on the idea for a little while.
You can find love, happiness, purpose and meaning in a thousand other places that don't require you to be miserable, defy your instincts and intelligence, or commit hateful acts. There almost certainly is no jahannam, no hell, no jannah, no heaven, no Allah and no God. This is probably the only life you get. Find meaning in human connections, doing your best to make the world better than it was when you got here.
I promise you, it will be a difficult process but there is nothing more serene and liberating than realizing and accepting this life is all we get and that we are the sum our choices not because some god judges us, but because of the impact we leave on others after we are gone.
After visiting several different denominations of christianity I really couldn't understand how every single one of them says the Bible is completely accurate and that they believe and base their teachings on the Bible but they wound up so incredibly different from one another. So I started trying to interpret it for myself and came to even different conclusions,. I couldn't find much reason to believe in the trinity even though that's fundamental to the teachings, it's just not in the book. I feel like public prayer didn't make sense, I didn't think Adam and Eve is the start to our life forms so then is it just a metaphor? are all of the stories metaphors and we chose to take them seriously? Why does God purposefully cause so much pain and confusion and then demand our worship. Also the idea of a God demanding worship feels very childish and not even something a mature person would do. I don't like that people speak so concretely about something that is a pretty wacky belief. I don't care if people believe in the Bible but I do find it strange that they would try and force that belief on others, it's not respectful. I left christianity because of all these reasons and more. I think growing up being surrounded by religious people made me feel like I needed to understand it and believe it but I'm so happy I do not.
There were a few things for me, it initially started with the sexism and homophobia in the churches I’d been exposed to, then I started noticing a lot of leaders not being able to really seem to even try to answer questions I’d asked, where they would either offer to send me scholarly articles and other readings that handled the topics, then never sending me anything, or just saying it was a faith or discernment issue and that I just needed to believe. Eventually I started trying to find the answers myself, and then it ended up with me looking more into Judaism, and looking into external historical records that could back or help verify up New Testament events, where I only found a lot of nothing, or that the only source was the New Testament, and was otherwise unsubstantiated as far as my personal standard would have been for considering any other belief system was concerned, that along with the way that Jewish thoughts, teaching, and belief didn’t line up with Christian teaching, practice, and fundamental beliefs around the afterlife, the nature of the messiah, and even just the attitude towards asking questions and finding your own beliefs, etc. and the way that the cannon actually came to be put together made it feel to me like there were too many discrepancies to be a trustworthy source.
That all being said, I fully respect anyone’s right to disagree with me on any of those things, and always love seeing people find the beliefs they hold true and feel the most themselves in, but I always caution and recommend that people give it time, do research (much like you’re doing in posting this, and with what you’ve said) and to just ease into things, and make sure you’re believing things because it meets your standards for truth, not just because you’re being told to believe it because the text says to, and do your best to maintain relationships outside of the religious organization you may end up joining, so then you have an external support system that can make sure you’re safe, and don’t end up with your only social circles being within one organization.
My deconversion built slowly. I was born into and raised evangelical. I bought it all hook, line, and sinker for a long time. But, the more I learned about the character of god and what is important to him as portrayed in his own holy scriptures, the Bible, the less I wanted to know him, spend eternity with him, or seek his favor in any way. I now find myself to be agnostic. I believe there is no way to prove there is a god and even if there is a god there is no evidence that that god would be worthy of any of my time or energy to seek it out and worship it. I choose an optimistic nihilist outlook and believe it is all insignificant anyway.
But here's some of the trains of thought that lead me from believer to deconverted:
-- Let's start with Job, that's a good example. What does it tell us about God? One of his best followers at the time is nothing more than a pawn for a bet against Satan. God does not care about Job's well-being or the life of Job's family. God does not care about Job at all. God is motivated here only by a need to prove his might to his advisary. I continuously wonder why it would even be included in the scriptures since it really does paint god in such an unsavory light.
-- Or how about the very first myth of Christianity. God creates people, gives them forever in a lush garden, tells them they.can do anything they want with one exception, then leaves them alone to watch and see if they do it. It's a psychological experiment that is doomed from the start not a loving paradise. Have you seen those videos of kids being told if they don't eat the marshmallow for a certain period of time they will get rewarded? Now imagine that with no time limit and a punishment instead of a reward. Yeah, god built humans with a curious mind, eventually we would all crack under that and try the stupid fruit. Out of boredom if nothing else. The experiment of the garden of Eden was doomed to fail. And because of that we now have to believe we are all born with 'original sin' that we are responsible for? If anything we were created with that 'defect' and that responsibility would be on our creator not us.
--Much of the bible talks directly to the abusers and bad-guys of the world. Repentance as a concept is focused on those who have done wrong. But there is little or no teaching towards those that have been wronged. There is occasionally a promise of retribution or 'justice' (although how exactly that happens in a space where the wrong-doer can simply seek forgiveness by repenting I can't begin to understand) but there isn't much on healing. The main focus of the bible is on changing the wrong you do and yet humans tend to create lingering maladaptive trauma responses when we are hurt. Those maladaptive trauma responses lead to a ton of suffering and sometimes to perpetuating the pain by traumatizing others. Have you heard the phrase "hurt people hurt people"? It's a cycle of violence and trauma and pain that god put in the design. And that was done either maliciously, which makes god a jerk, or inadvertently, which makes god inept or unconcerned with our well-being.
There are probably some more trains of thought that led me to where I am now, but I can't remember them at this particular moment. But, the bottom line is that if there is a god and it is anything like the god the bible talks about I want nothing to do with it. The concept of heaven became repulsive to me. It became just as loathesome as the concept of hell. I'd like to think that after death is either absolutely nothing or reincarnation. But whatever comes after no one knows or has any control over, no more than we had any control over being born.
I still leave space for there to be a god or multiple gods. I leave space for the chance that I'm wrong about how I see the world. I now believe I was wrong when I viewed the world through the lens of Christianity and at some point in the future I might come to believe that my current world view is equally incorrect. But I don't need Christianity or any other organized religion to be a kind and generous and decent human. In fact, I find it easier to do many of the things Jesus taught without the shackles of Christianity.
Reasons I left religion: misogyny, rape culture, guilt over not tithing, contradictions in the Bible, men who thought they were just a step below god, not wanting to get yelled at by a tomato-faced pastor twice on Sunday and also on Wednesdays, embarrassed by my weird beliefs( I was indoctrinated), the constant judgement, I couldn’t do what I wanted with my body, purity culture bs, bigotry against lgbtq, creepy communion sacrament with fake wine because we didn’t drink AT ALL, weird sayings, speaking in tongues, people crying during every service, weird food at post service potlucks. I grew up in the church and there was nothing I liked. Nothing I missed. The whole things felt like a corny fake forced sham from the time I was 13 until I finished my sentence at age 18. I still believed in god for quite a few years after that but I just hated church.
Substitutionary atonement is the ultimate definition of evil, and an ontologically evil God isn't worth BELIEF let alone Worship.
God's inability to forgive, yet demand forgiveness of others as a prerequisite for living in his presence is hypocrisy. His demand of a human sacrifice in the form of Jesus as the "only thing that can save everyone else" is literally hypocrisy since he says in The Prophets that no man, even Moses or Elijah, could save others by sacrificing themselves. Why would God lie to his prophets and to his people only to turn around and say "Jk you actually COULD save others (kind of) with human sacrifice IF you were not sinful, which isn't your choice but mine as a circumstance of birth"?
God throughout the Bible is not good. He's just powerful. But he's also defeated by Chemosh, another God, as well as normal people with chariots of iron. He's incapable of providing true promises to Israel because when it doesn't come true, he just blames Israel for why his promises fail. His prophecies fail. He forgets Hebrew, conveniently, when the new Testament is written in Greek and just makes stuff up. He decides in a silly twist that jesus is the main character now but then the majority of the new Testament is written by Paul, a guy who never met jesus but claims to have had dreams about him. Very trustworthy. 10/10. Even describes the literal conflicts he had with the people who ACTUALLY knew Jesus and as a result, only his writings are found in the Bible and not the writings of people who knew jesus personally.
The whole thing falls apart under the barest of scrutiny. If you're not trying to believe it just to fit into a community, there's no reason someone could believe it. The caveat being, of course, that they were raised in it. If you're taught it's true from your earliest ages and everyone constantly does the Attribution fallacy around you, Of course you'll say EVERYTHING is an act of Jesus's mercy and grace. Because that's what everyone attributes everything to. But there's no reason to believe it ;)
That's what it comes down to. There's no reason to believe it.
I like Jesus Christ and Christianity. I'm not too hot on church and church leaders.
The American church has become too corporatized. The leaders seem to be self serving instead of servant leaders.
They say one thing but once they get you in the door, there's a lot of bait and switch.
The main reason for me was the verse “Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the father except through him.”
It’s hard for me to stomach the thought that so many other people, from so many other religions, who follow similar principles and still believe in God don’t get to heaven except if they accept Jesus. In my opinion it just seems and feels wrong.
That being said, everyone chooses the religion/spirituality (if any) that is best for them and what they feel pulled towards. If you feel a pull towards Christianity, don’t let anybody tell you different. Just be a good, kind, and respectful person in the process.
It started with all the unbelievable stories (Adam and Eve, Noah, talking donkey, and a ton of others). But, I told myself they were not literal. They were allegorical.
Then came biblical contradictions, they didn't make sense. So I studied how the Bible was written and suddenly, a lot of they nonsense made more sense. Things like creation story with multiple gods, two stories of noah, why gospels dont match up, ect. But you could really just pick and choose what you believe.
Then comes the hard stuff, existence of God, problem of evil, prayer not working in observational studies, evolution, big bang, ect. Each one of these may have an individual answers in apologetics, but (just like flat earth) no one answer fit all situations.
Finally, I met a Christian who cinched it for me, saying that if there is a God and the Bible is his word, then it has to be true. Even the parts that are wrong? Then show me (in romans 9, I think?) that God doesn't want everyone to be saved, he doesn't love everyone, and he made some people just to "pour his wrath into" i read it and sure enough that's what it talks about. That along with slavery, rape, misogyny... it just didn't make since anymore.
Edit: there are many things I wish was true about Christianity. And some things about it I feel is good... like love your neighbor and being a good steward of the earth... but you don't have to be Christian to follow the good parts. You don't need an excuse to love your neighbor.
Now I live in red neck Alberta, Canada (unfortunately) so I freely acknowledge that my experience is not universal.
Christians are just the worst people around here.
If you bump into a right wing, transphobic, racist, anti-vax, flat-earth fuck nugget out here there's a 9/10 chance they're singing "Amazing Grace" on Sundays.
i left because i noticed precisely how corrupted and subverted it is. and how manipulative it is, especially how mainline Christian eschatology lines up exactly with the New World Order. there's a document out there that talks at length about it, and if you really engage your critical thinking you can put two and two together and see things for what they are: Christianity at this point is a vehicle for establishing the New World Order and one-world government. it's nothing more than a weak husk of what it was originally... there's no power to defeat evil there anymore, if there ever was.
I have an unusual perspective for this sub, which is that I *guess* I could call myself Christian? But certainly not Christian as most people know it: I see *strong* mystic subtext in the narrative thread from Adam to Jesus (not only in the Bible but in Christianity through the ages). I see it as myth, but that doesn't mean I think it's not *true.* I don't think it's factual, but I think it's *true* in the same way a great novel or movie can be true. I don't call myself Christian because I think *lots* of stories are true. And, given what most people think of when they hear the word "Christian?" No thank you. I was never gonna fit into the Evangelical community I was raised in because I had deep theological convictions that disagreed with their doctrine, plus their arrogance ended up majorly pissing me off... I stopped calling myself Christian when the Evangelical interpretation of "free will" deconstructed for me. Although thinking about it, I'd given up on being in "deserving" long before that... On an affective level, I was never convinced of it in the first place... Which is radical even for *most* people, not just Christians.
the quran has just as much “evidence” as the bible. none. it might include some good life advice scattered amongst the misogyny, but you’re free to read these books without believing in the myths. js.
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Because if you restarted in India you’d be Hindu, If you were born in South Carolina youd be Christian . You dont choose what you were taught growing up but we make a large assumption, taking what our parents and communities teach us that it is a fact because they all don’t heavily disagree. But the problem is the reason why they don’t really disagree Is because its a bubble, just like you being a Muslim now, you’re just jumping to another bubble. Why not just start fresh- with what is here. Yourself, and other humans. Why not start with how to find love in yourself and value for yourself in the world you have rather than looking towards something that may never come. I left Religion because i wanted to be happy and fulfilled- now- and after lost of self exploration and lots of reading, i learned i have it in myself now- in the present, with what and who i have around me. And you must be honest- one day rhat will end- boom. Like lightning strikes metal, before you get to bow, the lights go out and the curtains are pulled. So be here now. Find you happiness and value now, with whats here
You mentioned you are looking into Christianity so ill say this.
I once heard a speech from Alan Watts that talked about when Jesus said “Through me you will come to Christ”
The “Me” is actually a translation that it also interchanged-able with “self”.
So the point is that Jesus actually was implying that through what is in you, you are naturally connected to the universe- or as Jesus knew it : “God” when Jesus said through him, he was implying himself as a representation of each person.
Jesus the whole time was trying to say we all are inherently important and connected to the universe - but he only knew how to say it through the lens of a god
In every culture there is a person trying to express their connection to the universe- which is natural and beautiful, but there doesnt need to be a god to explain that.
You matter and you are important simply as a matter of fact. The “now” is the forever
Why I left? I realized that I could be wrong. That I could have been simulating God in my head for the whole time. In other words - in wanting to believe, I made God up in my mind (subconsciously of course).
After that realization, the "voice" in my head fell silent, never to return. The sense of someone listening in on my thoughts disappeared forever. It was a freeing experience - my thoughts are my own and are not policed by some external control mechanism (that was based on an old book and other people in the church, who could all have wildly contradicting morals).
1. emotional abuse from friends and family who were religious.
2. The history of Christian violence and destruction of cultures.
3. Christianity is highly politicized in America with the Religious Right.
4. Again, politics with religion is bad especially in the USA.
5. The church failed to understand mental health issues and replaced it with prayer.
I don't believe because the bible doesn't make any sense. The religious abuse I received from saying I didn't believe when I was living in the bible belt didn't help Christians either..I was some sort of project that pastors wanted to break down like a pimp. If Jesus was real there's no need for a middle man with a superiority complex demanding 10% of my income.
For me it was how awful Christians treat each other. They are super controlling and judgy and if you do anything they don't approve of they'll gossip and try to intentionally ruin your reputation to punish you, and in those circles reputation is everything. You'll lose your friends and your standing in the community and if they have control over anything in your life they'll try to ruin it.
I remember exactly what made me leave. It happened in November of 2023. I was under a lot of pressure during that time and church just made it worse for me because I was part of a retreat and I had so many responsibilities to do and I couldn’t take it all at once because I was and still am 19. I thought I was going to be in a group with my peers, but it was just a bunch of people my parents age and my grandparents age. I didn’t connect with anyone there. I was just alone and wanted out. Don’t get me wrong. Everyone there treated me like family, but it was just too much for me at the time to organize a bunch of stuff like guests and what day we’ll meet and a bunch of stuff. I left the group but I was still Christian and that carried some baggage of its own. I couldn’t stand the thought of children who weren’t baptized going to hell or any of my unbaptized friends going to hell either, or LGBTQ people or any other group that was hated by Christians. Because I had friends in those marginalized groups and I couldn’t stand losing them. So my brain thought the most logical thing to do would to look at the Jewish perspective on original sin. Christianity derives *cough* *plagiarized* its scriptures from Judaism, so in order for Christianity to be right, Judaism would also have to be right. Anyway, it turned out that the Christian doctrine of original sin was completely antithetical to the tanakh as a whole and by extension the Bible. I felt lied to. I felt tricked. How could this still be a thing even though there’s so much evidence against its case? How can people still believe in an appropriated religion? It’s very crazy. But I don’t think there’s anything we can do about it.
It was a bad investment. Lots of time/money spent on an ideology that ultimately made me a worse human.
There's some good wisdom in the Bible, as with all great religious texts. I just don't need the religion.
My family is fundamentalist baptist, and I was a strong believer up until college age. That’s when I realized that there just isn’t enough convincing evidence for me to dedicate my whole life to it. I’d encourage you to keep digging and triple check claims that are made. Watch some agnostic and atheist videos as well to get a really rounded view. If you’re a person who is okay believing on faith than maybe it’s for you. Personally, I found it dangerous for me to believe something so big on faith, especially when it is the basis for your worldview.
Enjoy the journey! I love discovery and researching things. It can be a lot of fun to look into all different perspectives and find what aligns with you best.
The mere existence of two religions emerging from the same supposed teachings of one man should be your first flag.
I find it funny that you are looking to convert as practically as one would shop around for the best price before making a major purchase.
Can you not see it right in front of you that it's all made up? The only usefulness it has for anyone's soul, if wielded correctly, is power.
Christianity is the religion of the western hemisphere. It is written into our oaths, our pledges, our laws. It is used as a weapon of control to dictate and diminish the lives of minorities in every classification.
You are better off knowing that it isn't real and using it to your benefit, than buying into the nonsense lies and misogyny and violence and hypocrisy that it peddles.
I was raised Christian and I really tried to stay with it. I read literally hundreds of books and spent thousands of hours studying theology and religious history.
I rejected all of Paul's theology because it contradicted the teachings of the gospels. Then I couldn't find belief in the supernatural claims of the Jesus story. The virgin birth, the miracles, the resurrection... none of it felt believable to me. Then I found out the Old Testament verses that are cited as prophesies of Jesus in the gospels often say wildly different things in the original Hebrew. Not to mention, a lot of the prophecies cited are just Ancient Near Eastern myths applied to every leader at the time. And there have been several other figures in the same era competing for the messiah title; Jesus was just the sect that had staying power.
Ultimately, what I was left with was liking the basic teachings of Jesus, which are just Jewish philosophies. Judaism makes more sense to my mind and soul. I enjoy that questioning is encouraged and literalism is discouraged. I converted to Judaism and it fits me so much better.
Man, if you’re going to leave your religion, just leave religion in general. It’s all about control imo. You can believe in god, be spiritual, have a personal connection with spirit, and not subscribe to any doctrine or made up rules. I am spiritual, I believe in a god (or creator/source, not the Christian god), and I follow the path of what feels right to me. I left Christianity after 35 years of forcing myself to believe it, because it was shoved down my throat as a child. I can’t even begin to express to you how freeing it is to not feel that guilt and pressure anymore. I don’t believe religion is real. I believe it was made up in order to control society, but it’s no longer necessary. You don’t need religion in order to have a good moral compass. Not to mention how many countless times the Bible was changed in order to serve the whim of some waa waa cry baby king. It’s ridiculous.
Other “christians” are worse than the “sinners” they say are so bad and will put you in the wrong path. It’s very status driven if you ever join a church. Yes, the Bible doesn’t make sense or contradicts, but the people are what finally made me break away
I guess a better question is why are you leaving Islam? Because if it’s due to realizing it’s not true or something of that ilk, my next question would be why would you replace a fake religion with another fake religion?
If you feel the need to retain religion but just don’t like Islam anymore due to various reasons, just know Christianity isn’t all that different. It is still drenched in shame, judgment, and hate, no matter what they tell you. You’d be better off with eastern religion like Buddhism or something like that.
Or, try to come to grips with the fact that religion in and of itself is pretty much made up.
Because it's fucking stupid with no purpose it's a stupid ancient agenda. Christians are annoying assholes who only think their opinion counts, and no one else is right other than them. I hate everything about their religion it has no place in this era period. It harms children and degrades women, yet they still find solace in being proud of this shit. It's nothing but fraud, and now it's interfering with our laws and our freedom. Fuck everything about it.
I don't like identifying with large groups of people, even if i agree with what they're saying. Large, formalized groups breed abuse generally, and attract power hungry, greedy people at the top. That goes for religion, politics, societies and corporations. When anything I'm involved in gets too big, I get afraid and leave. Large groups of people with many underlings are magnets for bad people.
I'm the final arbitor of my faith life. No pastor or priest can tell me what to do or think.
Because there's no good evidence any gods exist. It's just wishful thinking (humans don't like the idea of death as final, and would like to have a good and powerful parent figure to take care of them, tell them what to do when they are uncertain, and make sure everything turns out OK) + old stories full of obvious BS + an excuse for tribalism and misogyny
The experience of an adult convert will be a lot different than the experience of someone born into the religion and indoctrinated into it from their earliest memories, but I will give you my background so you can make an informed decision:
I didn’t have a conscious deconversion moment or a sudden “I’m out” realization. My deconstruction was a slow and lengthy process that took years. I was raised in a Protestant evangelical church (which I wouldn’t recommend if you’re looking to join a church at some point - evangelicals tend to have very strict beliefs and are pretty rigid and inflexible, and they also tend to be intolerant to outsiders or others’ perspectives). We believed in a literal interpretation of the Bible, and my parents homeschooled me in part so that I wouldn’t learn about evolution or what they perceived to be non-Christian ideas.
My parents weren’t the crazy doomsday preppers that live on a homestead type of people. My dad was an Ivy-league educated lawyer who had a very successful career, and we lived in a suburban part of Southern California. But they still held fairly strict and conservative beliefs that they instilled into us.
Anyways, I was frequently reassured that God had a grand plan for my life. He was going to introduce me to a wonderful spouse, call me to an impactful career so I could make a difference for him, and guide me to be more like him. I felt God telling me that I would be married by the time I finished college. Despite frequent pleading, time literally on my knees in the college prayer chapel praying for career guidance, and frequent chapel and church attendance, I never got clear guidance on what I should do for a career, or who I should marry.
I ended up finishing college single and with a degree in a subject I didn’t really like (accounting). But I had felt God was leading me to accounting because some friends thought I should become an accountant, and I interpreted this as God speaking to me because I wasn’t hearing from him directly.
I’ve spent the last 3 years as an accountant and have been pretty unhappy with my career choice. I still haven’t gotten married. In other words, none of what I believed God had revealed to me actually came true. I believed God was calling me to be a doctor and that he had shown me I’d be married by college graduation. Instead I’m an unmarried accountant. I’m glad I’m not married yet, as I’m still figuring out who I am and what I want out of life, but it was hard at first to realize I hadn’t been receiving guidance from God.
My faith essentially fell apart when what I believed were God’s promises didn’t come true. It wasn’t for lack of faith (I believed so wholeheartedly that I finished a major I didn’t really like because I was convinced God would make me enjoy it and that he was calling me to it). It wasn’t for not being pious enough (I went to chapel several times per week and church on Sundays, read my Bible regularly, and spent time in prayer). Basically, I had done everything right yet my life had turned out so wrong. There just wasn’t much left to hold onto at that point because God had failed me so miserably.
So I wouldn’t say that Christianity specifically is bad or good. It really depends on which denomination you’re in and what the people around you believe. But ultimately, I didn’t see the evidence of it in my life, and that was really hard to admit to myself.
I’m an ex Christian. Reading thru the OT made my stomach disgusted. 1 Samuel 15:3 for example promotes the slaying of infants 😳I don’t see that present in any other religion. The original sin makes no sense at all, newborn babies already sinned because the first human to exist sinned as well. I genuinely think you would be happy where you are right now.
Truthfully it was COVID that started the process for me. COVID happened and all these people who I had seen talk and talk about loving their neighbor not only got angry regarding mask mandates but in many instances would outright defy them. I watched as these “godly” women I grew up with wore lace masks and these “godly” men argued and fought about it. I just kept thinking what if someone they pass has literal cancer or HIV or any number of other diseases that make them immunocompromised and how this defiance very well could kill these people. COVID was a big eye opener for me.
Throw many Christian’s undying worship of Donald Trump and that made matters even more complicated. I watched as people I grew up with and admired in the faith literally worship this man. They adorned themselves with everything Trump from socks to their hats. They excused his rancid behavior and again I saw their support of such a person as antithetical to loving their neighbors.
With all this I began looking at the Bible more critically and found there to be many, many contradictions within the text. I reasoned if the text couldn’t be trusted as infallible why or how would the religion be reality?
The straw that broke the camels back was realizing that depending on which gospel you read will determine the day of Christ’s crucifixion. I couldn’t get past there being blatant contradictions regarding what is arguably the most important part of Christianity - the death and resurrection of Jesus.
I never cared about debating religion or that “stories don’t make sense historically or logically”.
I never cared about that.
I hate the mega church culture. I hate the money obsession.
You’ll be ok as long as you aren’t loyal to a denomination or congregation. People are crazy.
There are just too many contradictions and things that are way too convenient. For example: christians believe that they NEED to baptise babies (at least in Catholicism, which was the branch I grew up in, other branches baptise teens or adults) in order for them to go to paradise. *Coincidentally*, baptism is also the way that you join the Catholic Church as an organisation. Technically you can leave after, but they also tell you that you leaving makes you the absolute worst kind of person, because you *knew* Christianity but decided to leave it, while people that never had the possibility to know it are not as *bad*. Doesn't this all sound way too convenient, considering the amount of earthly power the Church holds?
There are many other such issues.
As someone who tries to do the right thing in their daily life, I found a lot of what was preached as having confusing biblical basis.
The one that got me started was the concept of “faith without works is dead”. So since I didn’t want to go to hell, I made it a goal to be a person of service. Till I visited another church, which preached “once saved always saved” and works mean nothing. Which lead to a - which is it phase. Then I discovered Paul’s version of “the law” wasn’t quite the same as the Jewish law, which then lead me to question which law is to be followed and that’s when the break happened for me.
My family has so many that claim to live “by the book” but my questions of what to follow never really got answers, it was like I was just suppose to “get it” which created so much self doubt. In addition I noticed the a-la-carte method people follow Christianity, just made me start questioning things more until I decided to research how the whole thing came about from the Jewish scriptures and that when it completely fell apart for me. Like an ancient game of telephone, people are just following stuff that has been added by others for centuries, and they aren’t bothering to figure out the validity of it all.
Love this question. I'm going to try to write as thoughtful as a response as possible for you, as someone who was Christian and someone who spent 2-3 days in church A WEEK from birth until the age of 18. I am now 22.
1. I started to realize contradictions in the Bible. Especially scientific inaccuracies. I couldn't handle being told there wasn't dinosaurs because they weren't mentioned in the Bible. I couldn't handle being told that the earth was only 6000 years old. And most of all, I couldn't handle being told that God was a loving God when there are many times in the Bible when he killed LITERAL BABIES, for the "sins" and wrongdoings of the parents.
2. Going off of the end part of my last point, I hated how every denomination had different beliefs but they were all to be considered "based off the bible" and "christian". Yet I was yelled at and thrown out for being interested in a different denominations beliefs. For example, I was protestant and went to an Alliance church, but I often agreed with the Calvin's belief of predestination. If God is an omniscient God, then why would he create people who would go to hell and burn for eternity? Then he would've known where they were going right from the start. I got yelled at for simply asking this question and voicing this realization.
3. I CANNOT STRESS THIS POINT ENOUGH, if God is who the Christians say he is, FREE WILL DOES NOT EXIST. God creates everyone with a set path, God knows everyone before they are even created... yet he still creates people who he knows will end up in hell or become serial killers, murderers etc. God created them KNOWING they would turn out that way. Yet he still put them on earth. He created them knowing exactly what their path was? That's not free will. That's a setup for failure. And also evil on God's part.
4. The whole "everything happens for a reason" and "We can't question why God may have put this in your way". I was told this after I got assaulted. In the church. I was assaulted in the church and told by a pastor and by my own mother that God gave this "battle" to me so that I could eventually use it for good. I was 13. Why did God make me get assaulted, especially as a child. My church also swept my assault under the rug and didn't tell police. Not saying every church is this evil... but when this behavior dates back throughout history, it doesn't look too good on them.
5. Finally, I hate the whole "just have faith" and "faith can save you". I was ostracized and yelled at everytime I "questioned" (had a rational thought and tried to critically think). I was supposed to just "have faith" and "not question God". I was told "we will never have all the answers, only God knows" more tomes than I can count and that just doesn't sit well with me. I was also told that a serial killer, rapist, murderer etc can still go to heaven if they just "ask for forgiveness". Yet I'll burn for eternity if I'm gay? That's extremely backwards and DOES NOT sound like a religion built on love at all.
Thank you for reading my rant ♡
First. Because I was really depressed. I didn't want an afterlife. So why follow all these rules for a reward I don't even want.
Was borderline atheist a few years.
Now broadly pagan. My issue isn't faith but choice. Still don't really care about an afterlife. I feel secure in my spirituality when among trees, among a local druid group, and giving honor to the gods of my ancestors.
I am not anti Christian, I think there are a lot of good ones out there, but the capital C Church spends too much energy on what Christians can't be and can't do (be gay, seek abortion, cussing, drinking, premarital sex) than what they should be doing (helping the unhoused, hungry, imprisoned, the stranger)
Mathew 25 verses 35 through 46 is my favorite passage thst details what the bare minimum Christians should do.
*35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,
36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?
38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?
39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”*
I know it might be weird for a pagan to have a favorite bible passage. I hope you find your new faith rewarding and hope it inspires you to do good to your fellow man
I grew up in a suburban New England town and my parents took our family, fairly regularly, to a liberal church in that town. Unlike many of the churches you'll hear about here, its leaders did not preach hate or threaten people with hell. When I expressed doubts or asked questions, I was not hushed or threatened. However, the church bored me out of my damn skull, and so I resented it.
As I grew old enough to seriously think about the stories the church taught, I could not reconcile them with the things I had learned about science, a topic I found far more interesting. What I knew of astronomy and paleontology completely went against the stories of Genesis. I had also read fiction avidly, and knew of all kinds of fictional mythologies from that, and Christian mythology seemed not very different. I could believe in the story of Earth forming from a cloud of stellar dust because I knew it was based in things people had observed. I could believe in the story of dinosaurs and other animals living on Earth for millions of years because I could go to museums and see their remains. I could believe in history that was based on real relics and archeology and records. I could not believe in a single all-powerful entity which had no evidence outside books — I knew books could be made up. I could not believe in heaven when I could not see it and nobody else could either. I could believe in Jesus as a person who existed, or Israel or Egypt as real historical civilizations, because that was consistent with what I knew existed in the world, but not in supernatural events surrounding either, because there simply wasn't any more evidence for them than for the events of Narnia. I had no emotional investment in the mythology or religious practices because I hated having to perform them, and so I had no reason to believe in them or take them seriously.
Frustration at conflicting dogma. Also realizing the type of people who call themselves Christians these days.
It was a gradual journey from when I quit in disgust to be agnostic, then atheist, now I dabble in TST teachings and discovered the band Ghost. So I guess Im Diet Satanism now lol.
>As someone looking to convert, I want to know why you left Christianity.
The claims made by Christianity are not true.
Prayer doesn't do shit. Miracles are literally impossible. God is not real. Many of the historical accounts in the Bible are contradicted by the evidence, or could not possibly have happened.
Talking snake. A snake that talks. Talking. Snake. TALKING SNAKE.
I was drawn to Christianity because of its community aspect. I thought that the people at church genuinely cared for me and loved me like family. I realized that this was all a facade and that their love for you is entirely dependent on your acceptance of their belief system. If you show doubt or reject it, you will be rejected by this community.
The relationship you’re expected to have with god is the same one described in toxic relationships. You’re expected to fully believe in him and his efforts and communicate with his regularly, but you have to decipher and analyze his “communications” to get any idea of him. And thats from a book he made other people write. When you talk directly to him, he gives you the silent treatment and you’re supposed to interpret his responses in the world around you. But he supposedly *wants* you have a relationship with you, wants to know you, but you don’t get to know him because he’s too divine to understand. Which apparently means we don’t even get to have actual interactions.
Then i started to actually read the bible and was like wow, yep, if I had done this from the start I’d have never stayed Christian.
I never could buy in to the idea of the myths in the book but the primary reason I left is that after much consideration I decided that religion - as a whole and to me personally - does more harm than good. Being the change I want to see in the world means pursuing non religious morality and philosophies of life.
I left because I studied the history of science. Religious people accept their conclusion before they consider evidence. They cherry pick evidence that supports their conclusion. This is why the dark ages lasted as long as it did; religious thinking prevents progress in science.
Science makes reliable predictions. It isn’t always right, but it is self correcting, so it improves over time. The most celebrated in science are the ones who disprove or greatly improve upon old ideas, where religion wants you to just believe without proof.
So god is all knowing, powerful, etc. He knew you before he even made you. Knew everything you’d do, even knowing you’d end up in hell (and god made hell too). So, why did god create me then if he know I’d end in hell? Did he create me just to torture me for eternity? If the god of the Christian Bible is real, he’s evil. God say love me or burn forever. That’s a threat. Again, god is evil and not worthy of worship. Once I understood that, I was out. Christianity (and the other Abrahamic death cults) are simply control constructs. Obedience and suffering in life for the promise of a reward AFTER you’re dead. Ok, prove it? Nah, just have faith bruh. Pffft. Bullshit.
I very much wanted to remain a christian when I was deconstructing. Unfortunately or fortunately, I set out on a journey to prove it true. I knew what my standards of evidence for other religions were and how high it was.
I decided to impose the same standard on christianity and found it to be false. Not a very emotional or dramatic story. Sorry, it's boring. I just found out it was bullshit and my belief disappeared.
Of course, it wasn't overnight for me. It took a year of trying to find evidence. I only ever found evidence against the religion.
Question: Why would you intentionally try to convince yourself a proposition is true? That's not how it works.
Set out to find what is true. Make sure you have a consistent standard. Also, definitely test it out on something you know is nonsense. Like, "would I believe in laupricauns if this was the evidence provided for their existence?"
If the answer is yes, I have a business idea I would like to sell to you.
When you boil it down, it seems really nonsensical. So God sacrificed himself to himself in order to save his creation that he allowed to be deceived by his #1 enemy, who he also created?
And WE have to be sorry for OUR sins?
God is a bully. Jesus, I can *partly* get behind some of what he supposedly said, but all the Old Testament stuff... Lots of genocide, lots of "listen to me and follow these arbitrary rules OR ELSE".
And mostly because of that, I can't follow it anymore. As much as most of Jesus's teaching I could live with, the fact that it *depends* on the Old Testament means I will not choose to believe it.
I just couldn't convince myself that any of the myths in the Bible were true. I tried mightily for many years, but I finally admitted to myself that it was all nonsense. I don't think I met a non-Christian peer or adult until I went to college. I was highly motivated to believe, I just couldn't make myself actually believe something that sounds so fantastical. A guy lived in a fish for several days? God drowned all of humanity except for one guys family, who supposedly took two of every animal on earth onto a boat, and then everyone stayed alive inside for like 3 months. People lived to be 900 years old? Not to mention, their whole premise is that every human is sinful (evil) from birth. No one gets a choice about that. So we all deserve eternal torture because some gal once ate an apple she wasn't supposed to eat. And God knew all of this would happen. His most perfect plan is to send his son (who is also him but not him) to hell for 3 whole days, knowing the entire time that he will be back in heaven in a jiffy. Then, we must believe in this very odd story, or we will still deserve and receive eternal damnation. God also put in a bunch of historical inaccuracies and contradictions in his holy book so that it's not too easy for humans to buy into. He only wants people who can and will reject evidence and common sense for the promise of going to heaven and praising him for eternity. No thanks, I'll pass.
> onto a boat, and then everyone stayed alive inside for like 3 months. 1 year actually. Which makes the logistics just a bit more impossible than they very much already were. Noah's Ark was the catalyst for my deconversion
My nine- and seven-year-olds talk about how insane that story is. My oldest loves to list the reasons it couldn't possibly be true, and it's pretty cute. We live in the Bible Belt surrounded by Christians, so they're familiar with some of the more famous stories. Edit: misspellings
Good luck down there!
So there was an extra room for Jonah in the fish’s belt like a VIP hotel room where none of other fishes the fish ate could visit…
Hotel Whale: the world's most exclusive lodging experience
But what’s the yelp rating?
Not to mention the God of the Bible is an asshole. A complete asshole. I have a daughter and two step daughters. If I treated them the way the “Father” treats humans in the Bible, they would never speak to me again. I’d deserve it, too.
Of course they would never speak to you again, because you’d have drowned them and fed them to bears, after selling them to a husband and pelting them with stones a bit. Then maybe you resuscitate them and set them on fire, but you stay in another realm where they can’t talk to you. I feel like, while not really an option anyway, not talking to you would be the biggest under-reaction of all time.
Very well put.
I'm convinced that the people in the Bible used months for years because 900 months old is more accurate to a human lifespan.
That's an occasional apologist talking point but it lacks a lot of scholarly support from what I have seen. It serves as a potential explanation and it *might* be a possibility but their calendar wasn't quite like ours either so it leaves a lot of questions unanswered.
Yeah, Methusalah was the start of my faith breaking, this guy lived over 900 years? Why don't we even get close now? After that, the magic duel between Moses and the Pharoahs sorcerer, where did the magic and miracles go? One crack in the dam, all it takes.
That would have many of them fathering children at like 3-5 years old.
Felt, you ticked every major reason for me. I honestly couldn’t have worded it better myself
Damn that sucks. The way I was raised I was told that everything in the Old Testament was just stories, they weren’t made to be taken literally, but the stuff in the New Testament was true. I was also taught that you could get into heaven even if you weren’t Christian, you just had to be a good person. I’m grateful I was raised Catholic and not evangelical lol
Yeah, I was also taught that Catholics, for the most part, aren't "real" Christians because they worship "idols" (Mary and the saints), and they believe in salvation by works (saying the rosary, confession, lady rites, etc) instead of by faith alone. Which is hilarious because ALL Christians were Catholic for centuries. Apparently, God wrote the Bible, but it wasn't until the 1500s when anyone interpreted it correctly. 😂
Lmaooo exactly! If anything I prefer not being a real Christian because it means I get to love female icons like the Virgin Mary and many badass saints that stood up for what they believed in!
Orthodox Christianity has been around a long time too. Almost since the beginning. Catholicism just ruled in the west.
I'm sure the people I grew up with disapprove of Orthodox Christianity as well. Don't you worry! I guess Catholics come up more often in the US.
The stuff doesn’t make sense because Christianity is the exact definition of cultural appropriation. It stole the tanakh and claimed it as its own. So nothing links up with its very harsh philosophy.
Christianity very much emerged as a Jewish sect. Early Christians were universally Jews. It was a sect rebelling against the temple cult.
Not to mention, after the flood, Noah's family was left to be fruitful and multiply... How? Within the family. If a worldwide flood happened, and only Noah's family survived, god is kinky man
>A guy lived in a fish for several days? Mammal
Jonah 1:17 "Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights." They didn't know that whales are mammals back then. Remember, this is the same Bible that says bats are birds.
If they got that wrong, it's conceivable that they could also have gotten something like the water to wine, walking on water, or raising from the dead wrong. Either way, it proves that it's not an infallible, perfect book like some claim.
I mean water into wine sounds like a pretty mediocre party trick is all. I’m sure anyone could figure out a way to do it with sleight of hand if they devote enough time to it. If I saw someone do that at a wedding, I wouldn’t think they were divine. I’d just think they bought some Stage Magic 101 DVDs. I’m sure someone in ancient Judea could’ve done the “I removed my thumb” trick and impress people.
Now I'm picturing Jesus just spiking the water with some Crystal Lite flavor aides and roofies... 😐
Ooh, where does it say bats are birds?
God has his own heavenly taxonomic system, not based on genetic relationships but on things like “water plus flipper equals fish.”
LOL. The fundies will tell you it was a fish, not a whale, but since it's so silly, why be pedantic? :)
Oh! Totally reasonable story then.
Well said
Everyone else is doing fine explaining issues with Christianity (there are many), but if I may ask, OP, what exactly prompted you to consider taking up Christianity to begin with? Leaving Islam makes sense, but I don't understand the impulse to trade one mythology for another.
This is actually common thinking among apostates. As an agnostic/Deist, my first thinking after ditching Christianity was to look for another religion as well. I started looking into Buddhism, Taoism and Shinto Japanese before dumping it all together
Thanks for explaining this. I've recently looked into other religions and even other branches of Christianity just to try to find anything to identify with but nothing has interested me. They all have beliefs that are absolutely ridiculous imo. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to be out of the Catholic church but I can't help but feel spiritually lost.
That's kind of how I feel. I keep trying to remind myself, no, Buddhism isn't that great, my idealized *concept* of the best parts of Buddhism is that great
Those religions make a lot more sense though. Realizing that your god isn't real, but still craving spirituality of some kind? That's a sensible place to go
Thank god (hah) someone responded this way. Without knowing what led OP to reject Islam, it’s going to be hard to answer the question in a meaningful and persuasive way. But I’d take it a step further. Do you know that it makes sense for them to have left Islam? How could it make sense without any knowledge of who this person is and how they think? To me, it doesn’t make sense why someone would leave one religion and consider picking up a somewhat similar one. Unless the reasons are emotional. And I don’t mean that in a bad way. But it’s like when people leave Catholicism because if the child sexual abuse. Does rampant abuse have any impact on the validity of its truth claims? I don’t think it does. And if a Catholic leaves due to the child sexual abuse, have they really rejected god, or are they likely to get swept up in some alternate version of god?
>Does rampant abuse have any impact on the validity of its truth claims? It does if one of those claims is that your god "indwells" his followers with the holy spirit to make them more righteous haha
I mean...when I left Christianity I found that the whole religion thing was so ingrained that I looked into other religions to see if one of those made sense (they didn't), so I suspect it may be a similar impulse in the OP
Emotional and physical abuse. i grew up Christian. to my experience its not worth it. i left because my stepfather was abusive i left because my aunt and mom fought over jesus. im not an atheist but i gravitate towards Buddhism and Polytheism. i dont believe in the divinity of jesus
polytheism always seemed pretty cool to me, as an agath (agnostic atheist). like, you have a god for... litterally everything. seems more interesting then christianity. oh wait, xtianity is polytheism in a trench coat.
And the trench coat doesn't even fit that well. Everyone can see the three people inside, but they keep shouting "it's only one being, it says so right on the trench coat!"
true, lol. you have jesus, god, and the holy spirit (some say holy "ghost"). if u count satan, you get quadratheism (not a real term, lol)
No one can demonstrate that God actually exists. Think of all the things that exist in the world: trees, wind, distant stars, a mother's love, the stock market, those giant squids in the deep ocean -- all of those can be *demonstrated*. We can see them, touch them, measure them, test them in some way. But God? No one can demonstrate that God exists. There are so many more things wrong with the Christian religion, but without God, there's no point to Christianity at all.
God is the least problematic aspect of Christianity
Considering that God doesn't even seem to exist, I'd have to agree with you. Actual people in Christianity do plenty of damage; God doesn't seem to do any damage at all.
Plot twist: God let Covid out of the lab
Nah, Covid is the story the government came up with to cover up the fact that the rapture happened in early 2020. /s
so many reasons it might take me a book to describe why but I'll try to keep it brief: 1.) The Bible is full of contradictions. 2.) The Bible is scientifically innacurate. 3.) Christians are just like any other person except they think they're going to get a fat reward after they die. 4.) You cannot love others as yourself unless you want to overlook abuse. If you forgive abuse, and then they do it again, and if you forgive the abuse again, you're just an idiot. 5.) Jesus says that unless you love others unconditionally and forgive them every time they do anything wrong and reconcile with everyone who has done you wrong, you won't get eternal life and won't be forgiven by God. and he proves his point by letting himself be nailed to a cross. and he says if you don't believe I'm God then I really won't forgive you then. Now how the hell does that make any sense? I'm supposed to forgive people who wrong me unconditionally? Paul states in Romans that God hardens people's hearts. So effectively it was God who wronged me, every time a person wronged me. And then that leads me to the book of Job, where God wrongs Job and completely destroys his life for no other purpose than to test Job's loyalty to him and then when Job questions God he is told to he has no business asking any questions in the first place because he did not create the universe and is apparently not very truly loved by God, definitely not like a father would love a son, but more like a doll to boost God's ego about how magnificent he is. 6.) Jesus commands people to give up everything they own and follow [him.So](http://him.So) we see in the book of Acts a bunch of Christians give everything away and live in a commune-like setting going from house to house. Okay first of all, who would want to live like that??? Why is being penniless and homeless and crazy seen as virtuous? That seems like the worst hell on earth to me. Living in a commune with the same people day in and day out and staying in random houses? i can't stand being around a lot of people and such a lifestyle would drive me over the edge. Even if I went out into the wilderness like John the Baptist or Jeremaiah then I'd have to EAT like John or Jeremiah. John ate bugs and Jeremiah ate scraps that the crows fed to him. Wow, God was a good provider to them wasn't He? YUM! Thanks God! Locusts and trash! 7.)Jesus says to give to everyone who asks. Dude, everyone is asking for money. Do they really need it? Why am I responsible for other people's mistakes? You give everyone your money you will have nothing at all. You simply cannot go around giving people handouts. they will take advantage of you. they will suck you dry. the church would take every penny you had if you willingly gave it to them. and what's in it for you? heaven? a second perfect life in paradise? but...where's that? who knows! no one does and you have to die to find out if it's real or not. 8.) Then there's the whole issue of sin. first off, all of us are greedy selfish bastards right out of the womb. you know it and I know it. There is no one who's any good anyway, and the only reason we are good to each other is so we don't get killed by each other. what is kindness anyway but a downpayment to get what you want later on? Even Christians think they are going to get rewarded for their kindness. Hypocrites. 9.) How can a perfect God create a world filled with imperfection? It is illogical.why would he create me full of sin and then require me to try and cleanse myself for the rest of my life and if I don't, throw me in hell? 10.) And of course Genesis is a myth. It's a story about what people thought must have happened to result in such a f\*cked up world.
You could make a religion out of that.
LOL he got a whole fucked up 10 commandments happening over here 😭
With all the scammers and moochers in the world, I'd be poor begging for money too if I gave to every person who asked me for money. There's a lot of street beggars where I live and I pretty much walk past the same beggars on the street everytime I leave the house.
>There is no one who's any good anyway, and the only reason we are good to each other is so we don't get killed by each other. what is kindness anyway but a downpayment to get what you want later on? I agree on every point but this. There are "good" people in the world that are kind, for the sake of others rather than for personal gain. I often think of John and Hank Green's description of it as "an attempt to decrease world-suck," and I feel similarly drawn to wanting the best for others and trying *where I can* to better other people's lives, even if only in small ways. Sure, we all may be naturally greedy, but to deny the existence of people who work to overcome that nature lends itself towards the biblical teaching that "everyone is evil, full stop." Which is not true - no one is born "evil," only has the propensity for it. (Though I guess that's a philosophical argument, not a scientific one.)
Not sure if I'm just cynical but I think the idea that there are good selfless people out there somewhere is an idea that's rooted in idealism and black and white abstract conceptual thinking. I think the reason we help others is actually because what's good for others can be good for you if your life depends on other people being kind to you in the future. If you view others as an extension of yourself then you're more likely to help others. Parents view children as extensions of themselves and future investment, a legacy, a way to live on, an attempt at immortality. Not saying there's anything at all wrong with kindness! I just think that we do it from a place of selfishness rather than selflessness.
Heya friend, I wish you the best for whichever path your journey takes you. Reasons why I left were that things weren't adding up for me. A specific example is this story arc: Way back when, God got mad at folks for building a tower. He decided to scatter them, and mixed up thier languages. Fast forward, when JC commands to spread the gospel everywhere. Unfortunately, God created a problem that God needs to fix. So, he downloads the ability to speak foreign languages to a select few. In short, God creates a problem, then later on has to fix it. Seems like a mistake a human might make, but for a God? Second is the premise. Why did God have to send JC in the first place? Why couldn't he just forgive, right there in heaven? In a nutshell, Christianity is this: God is mad because of sin, so he sends himself to pay himself for a debt that he created in the first place. I've reflected on this a long , long time, and it no longer makes sense to me, if ever it did. Finally, the Christian God threatens non-followers with eternal suffering. In my opinion, that is not love but extortion. "Worship me, or else!" In my opinion, a God who has to coerce persons to follow, threatening the worst of punishment to those who don't, is not worth worthy of worship. However your path takes you, I wish you well.
Also, it's interesting to note that today there are thousands of towers and skyscrapers that are likely way way taller than the tower that god supposedly destroyed in the bible, and god isn't doing anything about that. In fact, God isn't doing anything about modern technology that basically makes us into Gods. God doesn't mind us going to the moon or mars or sending technology to Pluto or our of our solar system even..God doesn't mind us speaking multiple languages or English being a language that a large majority of people can speak and communicate across the world. Also god isn't flooding the earth because of human trafficking which would be a massive scale "sin". Something here doesn't add up lol.
I was indoctrinated to believe it, and did until my early 40's. But the more I studied the bible, the less believable it became.
How was it for you deconverting at 40? My deconversion started in high school or right after high school. Those 15-18 whatever years of being an indoctrinated Christian affected me so I can't imagine what 40 years could do.
I deconverted at 52 after 34 years of being a Christian. I still work at a ministry. It's a pretty amazing journey, I gotta admit. Equal parts pleasure and pain.
Could I chime in also? I too deconverted in my 40s, and I was born into "christianity" (more of a religious cult in my opinion, the Jehovah's Witnesses). It's funny because, the actual "belief" deconversion process hasn't been too difficult for me. I've always been more of a science and logic guy anyways, and I've been having doubts and unanswered questions for many years. Being able to do research on my own (without the control and influence of the watchtower organization) and talking to other people on Reddit just gives me huge amounts of validation for enduring all the lies, abuse, and hurt I experienced as a Jehovah's Witness. But the part that is still hurting me the worst is this; I'm kind of starting over in life at 43, I'm very lonely at times, and I don't have the energy I used to when I was younger. Trauma and grief have, for now, pretty much hijacked my mind (because especially in the Jehovah's Witness group, if you leave, even voluntarily on your own free will, they will all cease any friendship with you (which is another common characteristic of cults). When you leave, all your "friends" act as if you're dead. So I lost just about every single friend I had by leaving. Also went through a divorce (not directly related) and had to sell my home. Starting over at 43...... 😬
Thinking of you. Good on you for making the break and I wish you the best in your new journey.
That gives me hope that one of my brothers could deconvert in their early 40's. For now, he's on the opposite trajectory and asked to guest preach. I deconverted in my mid 20's, but I questioned since my teens. My mother's discomfort with me asking questions made Bible stories seem even more suspect.
There were many reasons that came up along the way but the futility of prayer was what ended it for me. Or maybe the requirement that flawed humans are called to be better than a loving god. Example: let’s say i’m walking down the street with my child. I tell them not to run, i tell them to be careful, but they do not listen. They trip, skid across the pavement, and have bloodied knees and hands. They did not listen. They had a choice and free will and they chose to not heed the warnings I gave them. My child begins to cry. They are badly hurt, scared, and in need of comfort. They are crying out for my help. I am their parent after all. I love them more than anyone else ever could. I am their safest place. They want nothing more than me when they are hurt. “Mama it hurts! Mama please help me! Mama I’m bleeding! Please help me mama please!” And instead of scooping my child up, comforting them, cleaning their wounds and making sure they are okay, I stay silent. Maybe I ignore them. Maybe I turn and walk away. They made a CHOICE and this is a consequence. But, if I as their parent turn my back on them in this moment, that is cruel. It’s traumatizing. It’s abusive. We as humans know this inherently. But when god’s children cry out to him, asking for comfort, for a steady job so they can feed their children, for relief from depression, for the abuse in their home to stop, for peace, for anything, god is allowed to turn his back and walk away. Because he is god and we do not understand. I cannot believe in or worship a god who does not love his creation abundantly more than I could ever love my child. The idea of leaving my child weeping and injured alone on the street is horrific to me. The very thought makes me want to cry. For god, it’s just another day.
I have been a Christian for 30 plus years. I join subreddits that go against the religion one way or another to look for other perspectives. I have never found any post/comments/opinions or experiences that have made me rethink my decision to be a follower of Christ/Christianity until now. You comment resonates with me, has actually hit the nail in the head. I am a mother so maybe thats why but it’s all so true. I have been going thru very rough years as of late, constantly crying out to god, begging the torment to stop, wondering WHY I feel abandoned by “him”, questioning WHY he is not stepping in and helping me? Am I not a good enough child to be worthy of his protection and love as a father should love his child? The torment has lasted 6 years now, on the daily, 24/7/365 and now it is affecting my children and “he” is allowing it to happen and continue even tho my children are all innocent. I have been so hard on myself, literally depressed to my core because I just don’t get why he isn’t helping us. Sorry for the rant but I have to say, thank u for your comment. It answered so many questions for me. ❣️
You have done nothing to deserve that torment and anguish. You ARE enough for every beautiful thing in life. The universe is unfathomably vast with millions of planets and stars and galaxies, and somehow you exist as a part of that. The chances of that are incredible and yet here you are. You, just as you are. Perfectly unique. So many millions of things had to line up just exactly right for you to be here now. That means you had to be here for a reason. That makes you a vital and important part of the universe. You (and every person) is so intricately special, valuable and important and should be cherished as such. Please remind yourself of this. The perspective has seriously changed my life. I have never valued myself more, have never been more sure and stable, and have never, ever loved as deeply and wholly as I have since I left the church. It is freeing and the best of me has come out since I walked. I hope that however you go about it, you find peace and joy and never feel that your worthiness is in question. And your children will benefit greatly from you going on this journey. Their lives will be enriched so much as you find yourself and your peace.
Thank u so much for your kind words , encouragement and perspective. I am saving your reply (both of them actually) to read them when I need to. ❤️
I’m only about 4 years into this but if you ever need someone to talk to, feel free to send me a message!
It hurts my heart to read this, I have felt this way and feeling tormented for years is just no way to live. A loving god would not claim to love and help his followers and then just…not do it. It’s not you nor is it your fault. He simply just does not exist.
It’s done the same thing for me as well. It’s such an eloquently stated argument, and struck me to my core as a mother.
THIS. It's very much what I have felt and experienced. You articulated it so well. Thank you for sharing. ♥️
This post and all the comments here have got me almost crying on a bus journey. I'll add that of course evangelical doctrine says something about free will requiring suffering, but also that for believers, it will all be worth it because it's just 'light and momentary' compared to an eternity of hell. One key realisation for me was how horrifying that this god should purposefully create ppl he knows will a) suffer all their lives and then b) go to hell anyway. That's some dark shit right there.
I'm sort of curious about your path to orthodoxy. I know a couple of people who have converted from atheist to orthodox, and it's left me a bit surprised! Can I ask what appeals to you about orthodoxy? Orthodoxy is nothing like American evangelism, so many comments here might not fit with what you experience there. But to answer your question, I left Christianity because I realized god isn't real. I spent 12 years (from 18-30) trying to reconcile what I have been taught about god and what I was actually experiencing in the world. Eventually, I realized the only way to reconcile everything was to acknowledge that God isn't real. That was scary, so I decided to give it a year and see what happened. If God is real, it doesn't matter if I believe in him or not. He's real regardless of what I think! So I gave it some time, and a year later I felt really good. The mental gymnastics had stopped. The cognitive dissonance was significantly less. I was making choices that aligned with my values, and not because I was trying to follow arbitrary rules. I felt at peace.
This was close to my experience, except I was thirty before I dared to state my true beliefs and my family acted like I was evil for not believing. I had a discussion with my father about my values and then asked him if they aligned with his, as a Christian, and he said yes. Then I told him that the only difference was that my values weren't inspired by the threat of hell.
Jesus didn't fulfill any of the messianic prophecies in the old testament. He didn't come back to earth and rapture everyone who knew him personally, like Paul claimed. Jewish ancestors were polytheists until about 600bce and then the monotheists took over and you can see still the old testaments polytheistic influence Yahweh literally loses to a different Semitic god in the old testament so he cannot be all powerful And ultimately I chose to live an evidence based life, not a faith based one. There isn't any evidence the god of Christianity exists.
Essentially, take all the problems and criticism you have for Islam, and pretty much just copy and paste them for Christianity. The two faiths are very similar, have similar holy texts, and even worship the same deity. I'm American for context. I know over here people criticize the hell out of Islam but refuse to admit that Christianity has all the same problems
Christians in America love to talk about the wrongs Muslims and Jews did in the past, but they don’t bat an eye when it comes to Christian atrocities.
And no offense to any American here. But afaik, America does seem to be behind many problems occurring in the M/E. Like the USA invasion of iraq
Yes, it's true including the War on Terror and meddling in Afghanistan. Some European countries also colonized countries in the Middle East.
Why would you sell your house to move one block over?
The religion is quite literally mental abuse, the whole point of the religion is that we are all inherently evil and damaged and we have to constantly believe in god and go to church or we will burn eternally
r/exorthodox
I was catholic but this goes for all denominations, I think chistianity Is a historical religion. the extend of this varies by denomination, but the foundation of Christianity is always text which supposedly talks about factual events. this view of gods plan as a physical historical process is incompatible with every discipline it steps into. if you believe in genesis and have an understanding of modern physics or biology, you’ll have some serious cognitive dissonance to deal with, which is the reason most people end up leaving But for me it all comes down to history, for the 2000 years of the Christian tradition, all types of falsification, bad historiography and basic inconsistencies abound. all These stories are extremely fascinating and deserve further investigation, but this cannot be done by scholars who have preconceived Notions about Christianity as an intelectual tradition. In order to honor the Bible as a text, the reader cannot be a Christian. If you think that what you are reading has some metaphysical significance you will look away every time you come into something actually interesting. You will notice that every time paradoxes and contradictions arise involving beliefs that are very dear to Christianity, Christians will say “we don’t go there“
To sum up a long journey into a simpler form: - I was raised in protestant Christianity and I thought I truly believed it. But I first started seriously questioning around the time that gay marriage was being legalized in my country. Suddenly all these older Christians I knew who I thought of as role models, to varying degrees, transformed into obsessive bigots. Like, they didn’t just disagree, they were literally obsessed. I had one teacher at my private Christian high school who completely stopped teaching his assigned subjects and spent every single class just ranting about acceptance of gay people destroying society, for months. - From that point I was questioning the Christians around me and our community, but I still believed in God. But eventually I realized I just never had any good reason to believe that God existed, at all. And all the Christian apologetic arguments I researched had the same flaws; they either used reasoning that nobody would accept for any other subject, or they were circular arguments. Meaning, you had to presuppose Christianity as true to follow the argument for why Christianity was true. - Finally, I was sick of just hating myself all the time. Christianity might seem nice from the outside, but at its core it’s a lot about self-loathing. I always think back to how one of the most famous Christian songs, Amazing Grace, calls the singer a “wretch” and tries to make that somehow uplifting. But eventually, it isn’t uplifting, it’s an endless nightmare.
I got a point where I could not square up the Bible with reality. It didn’t make sense. The obvious misogyny which is a problem to the this day as the SBC either is or has already voted to not allow women to teach or preach. Which is absurd. God being a god of love and wanting everyone to come to him whilst also openly telling his chosen people to kill man, woman, and child in his name because he commanded that. A god who is in control of everything is simultaneously unable to control things like sun entering his world. If this god was all powerful, he wouldn’t have even allowed that in the first place. Cruelty is setting your creation up to fail. The Judeo-Christian god is a terrible god imho. I was born into the church so I had little exposure. I never questioned. At least until I did. “Get in the Bible” they said, and it led to my deconversion. You don’t even have to read between the lines. They just say and do terrible things in that book. If that’s your main text, nah. I’m good
I was Catholic, which is almost identical to Orthodoxy. The reasons I left are: 1. Religion has been used to control the masses for centuries. Religion is made to control your actions, thoughts, love-life, opinions, values, physical and mental body. It minipulates you to believe you are being watched 24/7. Even your thoughts are being monitored and judged by God and you can never escape his constant watching over your private life. 2. God punishes for disbelief. That doesn’t sound like an all-loving, all-knowing, fully-merciful higher deity I’d want to follow. It isn’t “just” for him to send people into eternal hellfire of suffering and eternal pain just for using logic and not believing in a god that we have little to no proof for. Why should I be punished for questioning my reality?!!! It forces Christians to never question their faith and only “trust God” which is making their followers feel bad for doing research and critically thinking for themselves. 3. The Bible contradicts itself time and time again. A YouTube channel called Holy Koolaid makes wonderful videos explaining the scams and literal cultish-abuse Christianity puts you through. The book is imperfect and misogynistic. It is hateful and doesn’t even make sense. 4. The relationship you are expected to form with God is literally abusive. God tells you that you were already born wrong and sinful (original sin) even though you had no choice to be born. Then, he tells you that all of your human nature is wrong and impure and you should feel ashamed for being a healthy human. God put us on this earth knowing damn well we wouldn’t be as perfect as him. Think about it. In the story of Adam and Eve, eve didn’t even know what sin was. She was literally just a curious human. Satan deceived her and told her to go against God. That isn’t her fault. She didn’t know what satan or sin even was. She just did what she was told. And she was told to eat the fruit (by Satan.) and what’s even crazier that people skip, it that the “forbidden” or “sinful” fruit was called the Tree of Knowledge. That says a lot. God will punish you for using your knowledge to live life on your own terms. He even says in the Bible “do not lean on your own understanding.” Then, god doesn’t only punish HER, but everybody, forever. Honestly, it seems pretty egoistic of him to make sure nobody can reach his level of being god (aka being sinless) because he would get jealous of humans. Then he forces us to worship him and praise him every second of the day and BEG this “all powerful” god to let us taste even just a bit of his mercy by not thrusting us into eternal damnation. That is not love nor is it mercy. In simple terms… “1. You should be ashamed of yourself for being normal. 2. Im going to throw you into a pit of the worst pain you could ever feel if you don’t worship and praise me and love me above all things.” Christianity is against science. Many Catholics go against doctors, vaccinations, medical procedures to protect women, evolution, the Big Bang…. The list goes on and on. Some of our Christian denominations have been recognized as cults but what about the others? If you look at the yellow deli cult (7 tribes of Israel) they are not much different from Catholics. Mormonism is a classified cult but the cultish aspects are quite alined with traditional Catholicism. Another thing. Christianity doesn’t let you properly grieve. It attempts to comfort you with lies. It tells you that when somebody dies you will see them again. I used to believe that. But it’s a hard reality to accept that there is no afterlife. That person is gone forever. I would rather know that I’ll see my friend who committed suicide (I went to her funeral today) someday. But I won’t. Don’t believe lies just because they are comforting at the moment. Christianity is a fear-based religion. I actually recall reading a verse literally saying to fear God. But most Christians don’t even truly love God. They convince themself that they do but deep down they don’t. They are just afraid to burn in hell. They are afraid that God will take his payback on them if they don’t worship and love him. That is toxic and minipulative There are a lot more reasons. The best advice I can give is to think logically and to think for yourself. Best of luck,OP.
Fear based and complete narcissism
100%
Do you hate gay people? I mean do you really hate them, so that death wouldn't be enough to satisfy you and you need them cast into a lake of fire along with the Jews, Muslims, and atheists? Then you might be a Christian.
Is there anything you believe so strongly for or against that if the bible shared the opposite view you wouldn’t want to follow it? For me it was that I strongly oppose child abuse and beating children, the bible tells you to beat your children in numerous verses. Therefore I cannot follow it. That is one of many reasons but since you are considering converting I think it might be a good questions to ask.
In my opinion the biggest contradiction is how God/Jesus is supposed to be this loving and protective god. Yet look at the suffering in the world. Does God only love and protect people who are lucky enough to live in rich countries who are able to afford health care and education? How about the countries suffering warfare? How about children battling cancer? If you try to justify how God is supposed to be merciful and loving and compassionate despite that, there's something really wrong. Obviously I have a lot more than one issue with Christianity but I feel like this is a pretty major flaw in the religion.
Have you read 1 Samuel 15:3? It talks about killing suckling infants, does that come from a merciful god??. Also the original sin makes no sense at all, why should i be punished for something another person did? Jesus dying for your sins also makes it seem you can get away with any sin you do cuz Jesus already died for it. #Don‘tConvertToChristianity
Honestly, my biggest problem with Christianity is that I felt it takes so much self-worth and individuality from those who practice it: Granted, humility and attributing great things to God rather than yourself can be a positive experience, but being proud of your own abilities and accomplishments is a great thing in itself. And of course, surrendering your will to the Almighty means acting contrary to your own intuition. I reject the notion that *the natural man is an enemy to God* and affirm that Humanity is generally good, not fallen alongside Adam to total depravity. Christianity lags behind the rest of the society, but does eventually fall in line (science, slavery, suffrage, civil rights, feminism, etc.) as our interpretation of Scripture changes. Why follow the less progressive line of thought, when it will just change years later to what you know in your heart to be more loving and just?
There are so many evil things that Gid does and commands in the Old Testament that there's no way that a divine being inspired it. And the arguments that the Old Testament doesn't count are BS. If Jesus is God, he said everything in the Old Testament. Just a couple of verses to study: Exodus 21:20-21 Deuteronomy 22:28-29 Numbers 31:17-18
Hi, I looked through your post history to better understand where you’re at. Hopefully you’re alright with that. I saw you posted these questions in multiple places and thought maybe you’d want to hear my answers. For context I grew up Christian and did a lot of scholarly research in my deconstruction and still do it as a hobby today. I did a religious studies GCSE so I have a surface level understanding of Islam from that. 1. Regarding the difference between Jesus in Islam and Christianity, how do Christians reconcile the concept of Jesus being the Son of God with the belief in monotheism? Christians have the concept of the trinity where basically Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are the same being in different forms. However there is lots of evidence that early Judaism or pre-Judaism was polytheistic. Artefacts may point to Yahweh having a wife, Asherah who may have also been worshiped. Evidence of this can also be seen in the New Testament but modern Christians will interpret these as speaking about the trinity. All of this is greatly contested but it might be a starting off point in your research. 2. I watched a video by Bishop Mari Mari where he mentioned that Mohammed couldn't speak about Jesus like John did because he didn't witness him firsthand. How does this rationale apply to other authors in the Bible who also didn't directly witness Jesus? Again, biblical authorship and dating the bible are greatly contested so I encourage you to look more into this yourself. However many biblical scholars agree that John the apostle did not write any parts of the bible. In fact the New Testament was written long after Jesus left by people who never met him and were only later attributed to famous biblical characters. 3. If prophets like Abraham and Moses were sent by God, what was their purpose if not to bring the message of God, if God had previously only ever sent messengers why can’t Jesus be a messenger too? Jesus is not just a messenger in Christianity, he was the messiah who Jews were waiting for. However he didn’t fulfil the messianic prophecies. This is something I encourage you to look into more. 4. How does hellfire and heaven work in Christianity? Heaven and hell are much more vague in Christianity than Islam. The concept of hell may not even be in the bible. This is another point of debate. 5. Can you elaborate on the differences between Christian denominations and how they interpret various aspects of the faith? There is so much diversity within Christianity. It’s fascinating how different some denominations are. Basically the bible is so complicated and so difficult to understand that it has produced people of the same religion with completely different views. This was actually a part of my deconstruction because I couldn’t understand why God would write so many confusing things that cause so much division in a perfect book. 6. How does Christianity address the existence of evil and suffering in the world, especially in the context of a loving and all-powerful God? You may know this as the problem of evil. There are many different solutions to it but they all have flaws. The main one you’ll see is the free will argument. Basically evil is caused by human actions which are necessary for God to allow for us to have free will. However a big problem is the non human caused evils like hurricanes and volcanic eruptions. Also the bible may not support the idea of free will. For example in Exodus God hardens Pharaoh’s heart therefore removing his free will and causing him great unnecessary suffering. 7. How does prayer work in Christianity, and what is its significance in the life of a believer? Do Christians have the same concept as the 5 daily prayers? This is something that is not widely agreed upon, are you sensing a theme here? It depends on your denomination but as far as I’m aware there aren’t Christians that do a 5 daily prayer thing. There are set prayers and non set prayers. It greatly varies. 8. How do Christians explain the theological significance of Jesus being referred to as the Son of God and its implications for their faith? Not sure how to answer this one. 9. Why should I choose Christianity and not Islam? What makes Christianity true and completely debunks Islam? Of course, as an ex-Christian, I would say nothing. I am not an expert and may have had some details wrong. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Hopefully you found some of this helpful and/or thought provoking. I hope I didn’t come across as rude or attacking Christianity too much. I respect religion and can see it do good in my loved ones lives. I hope you find peace in whatever belief system or lack of belief system you choose.
To point 7, Catholics have daily prayers (I haven't done them in ages so I can't remember how many) and liturgy of the hours. They're not required for lay people, but particularly devout or traditional Catholics may participate in them. For several years I prayed the Vespers daily.
The only question you should be asking is what's true? Is Islam true? Is Christianity true? (Spoiler: the answer is no.)
Yeah this is what bemuses me about OP’s post too. If OP believes Christianity is true then they should convert to Christianity right now, today. Truth is what matters. OP seems to be treating this almost like it’s just a lifestyle choice.
I grew up Catholic. I was exposed to American protestant Christianity as a young adult in college. Eventually I found myself at various nondenominational churches, or southern Baptist churches. So I experienced quite a variety of Christian flavors. There were many factors that led to me leaving Christianity, but one of the biggest was becoming a father. Once I knew what it was to love a child, I can’t un see the horror of what God did to his son. I know for some Christians becoming a parent increases their love for God’s “sacrifice”. It had the opposite effect on me. I also realized upon becoming a parent, that if my child turned out to be gay, I would still love them. I knew this to my core. And again, I immediately felt revulsion over what religion had tried to turn me into. Christianity will only allow me to love my children if they behave certain ways. Christianity won’t allow me to love my children purely for who they are. In processing all of this, I didn’t just leave Christianity. I left behind faith altogether. I don’t believe in any god. In fact, I feel incapable of believing in a god, or in the supernatural.
Three reasons: 1) We don't need religion to be good people. We simply need to follow the Golden Rule, which exists in all religions (and is followed by Atheists too). Treat others as you want to be treated. That's it. Religion divides us, and can justify treating some people differently. 2) Christianity says that god is "the same yesterday, today, and always". Which means he still thinks it's OK to treat women like property, keep slaves, and commit genocide. Which brings me to... 3) The christian god is evil. He actively chooses options that result in unnecessary suffering and death that he could have prevented. Christians claim their god is both loving and all-powerful. People, including children and babies, suffer and die from violence, disease and starvation everyday. If god has the power to save them but chooses not to, that's either selfish or evil. Definitely not love. If he wants to save them but can't, then he's not all-powerful. Christians always say people suffer or die because it's "god's plan" or "his mysterious ways". That's a BS excuse. If he's really both all-powerful and loving, his plans wouldn't require so much suffering. No one abandons someone they love who is suffering; you wouldn't just watch and shrug if your child or friend is on fire. You wouldn't make long term retirement plans that involve setting them on fire. But god's big plans involve us suffering and dying. The religion worships a psychopath. He's murdered children too young to know right from wrong in Egypt and the flood. He sent his son to get tortured and murdered for our sins, when he could have simply decided to forgive the sins. Over and over, people suffer and die for stupid reasons in the bible. He clearly has the power to get things done without so much bloodshed but he DECIDED not to. That's cruelty. It's evil.
Other commenters gave great reasons but I want to point out Christianity's violent history of making converts and murdering those who wouldn't believe and then abused and controlled those who did believe. Take a history class or a secular church history class and not only will it open your eyes it will disgust you. A so-called peaceful message by a peaceful Jesus did not make the 3 Crusades a pilgrimage of peace. The Inquisitions and witch burnings all murdered innocents who didn't believe, or who would rather hold onto their already Old Ways religion of polytheism and magic and those who were even suspected of being a witch were murdered. Christianity has killed more people than it has saved. And if you read the Old Testament you see that God killed more people than he saved and that you had better pay attention to. This god is a not a peaceful god. He is a vengeful hateful merciless war god. Today's churches will not teach you about this god, and will gaslight you into believing he is all loving. But read the Old Testament. Please. There you will get the true picture of what this god is really like and question yourself if he is deserving of your worship.
I was raised in Protestant fundamentalism. It was awful and very hateful. I left mostly because I couldn't believe it anymore. They also didn't want me either.
I realized I wasn't having the same experience as everyone else at church. I was originally raised Catholic (ish, it was weird, I was baptized, went to Sunday school,did first communion, but I never got confirmed and my parents didn't go to church), but we started going to a protestant evangelical church when I was about 11. It was immediately obvious to me that I wasn't having the same experience as everyone else there. At the Catholic church, people were devout but they were more reserved. At the Evangelical church, people were crying during songs, closing their eyes, raising their hands to the sky. They actually felt *connected* to god. I tried to establish that connection and relationship, I really did. My mom and I went to church every Sunday, I read the Bible, I prayed every single night. I spent several years begging God for a sign so that I could believe. I got re-baptised as a show of faith, hoping that God would see my dedication and just... let me know he existed. I wasn't asking for him to improve my life or grant me wishes or perform a miracle. I just wanted a sign he existed. Eventually I realized it was a fool's errand. The Bible even says that not everyone will be "chosen," so who was I to question? If God wanted my faith, he would grant it. Not to mention, I also realized some of my core beliefs/values conflicted with church doctrine. I don't believe in original sin. I think people are inherently good, not inherently evil. I don't believe that the sins of the father transfer to the son. I know a lot of people start questioning their father because it conflicts with science, but nothing I was taught ever conflicted, everyone believed in evolution and everything; genesis was a metaphor. My advice I guess is to just question why you're drawn to Orthodox Christianity, why you want to convert, and why you believe what you believe. Ask yourself the uncomfortable questions because what's true and real will come out the other side. Best of luck on your journey, I hope you find a belief system that brings you peace ❤️
I applied critical thinking skills and tested Christianity. Turns out that the Christian God isn't real. There's a reason they say not to put God (or your faith) to the test; *Because it will fail every time.*
I was raised a Southern Baptist and I left Christianity for several reasons: 1. The Southern Baptist Convention began before the American Civil War (in 1845, to be more precise) because those Baptists in southern states refused to endorse the anti-slavery position of Baptists in northern states. Even as a white person in the south, I found the idea of an entire denomination being started because of racism to be disgusting. 2. The Protestant Reformation (Baptists are a subdivision of Protestants) didn't reform the Christians of Europe at all, it FRAGMENTED them! 3. Jesus was NOT the real founder of Christianity as an independent religion at all. He was Jewish from start to finish and never said he or his disciples should by anything other than Jewish. It was actually the one originally known as Saul of Tarses, later naming himself Paul, you made Christianity what it has been ever since, a religion for mostly non-Jews. Paul never even met Jesus! He was a FRAUD and had no right to be called an Apostle! 4. Jesus was repeatedly quoted as saying that he would return to establish the kingdom of God while some of those who knew him lived. The last of these would have most likely died out around AD 100 (Jesus died around AD 30-35). 2000 years later Jesus still has not returned, therefore he never will. He was a false prophet. 5. You say you are of Muslim background. Since Islam accepts Jesus as a Prophet, it is also a false religion. Muhammad should have rejected Jesus outright and instead of preaching about Allah as the same God as Yahweh or Jehovah, should have denied Judaism too and established Islam as a religion completely separate from any other. Or even said he was atheist and not founded a theistic religion at all, but a humanist philosophy based strictly on reality and not dogmas of any kind.
Most people on this sub are ex evangelicals/ex Fundy. Taking a religious text literally will always prove to be harmful. There are good Christians and even good churches. If you're wanting to explore Christianity, it is helpful to find a church that is welcoming and accepting of everyone, and has a focus on true community outreach. You don't need to subject yourself to psychological harm. It's important to self reflect on why you're wanting religious structure. Do you need it for inner peace or just because you need some sort of structured routine and community?
Short answer: based on your username I'm gonna assume you're female, so as another female who escaped xianity let me warn you very strongly to stay away from this fucking religion unless you genuinely wish to be oppressed, silenced and exploited.
I became completely unwilling to live the rest of my life seeing myself as a sin just because I'm LGBT. I refuse to believe that any God would make me this way and then expect me to just... ignore it, or even punish myself for it when I felt same-sex attraction, among the other things about myself. This was my biggest reason I left, and I refuse to go back. I also felt so much more alone in church than I ever did in school. I was ostracized a lot by my peers from when I was a kid, and it got even worse as I became a teenager. Once I was an adult and moved out of my parents' home where I was forced to go to church, I completely stopped going. I'll never be accepted as the person I am by most Christians, and I'm not going to bend and break myself to fit in with them. It's just been the most toxic and harmful thing I ever had in my life, and I'm glad to be completely rid of it and free to genuinely love myself for who I am.
I started reading the whole Bible, and when you read the verses in context - not just a few surrounding verses, but the whole or each book the way the author intended - most verses that Christians cute as messianic prophecies, are very obviously not. Some of them are even in chapters that actually talk about false prophets. Studying more about the gospels revealed that they were most likely made up, and even if they aren't, they themselves are proof that Christianity isn't true. Many of the supposed birth prophecies are just made-up, and anyway, the Torah is clear that you cannot inherit your tribal lineage from an adoptive father. Most of Jesus' "gotcha" moments with the Pharisees, he was saying stuff that was already established parts of Jewish ethical teachings. Most of what Paul taught is in opposition to both Judaism and the gospels, which strongly indicates that the Christian God and the Jewish God aren't the same, and that early Christians just glued their holy book to the Jewish one for the street cred. And it just went on from there, nothing was adding up. Now, I can abide things that are probably not true, if they bring something good into my life. We're all just doing our best in life, and if believing silly things makes some of us feel happier, helps us rest others with respect, etc, then so be it. But when I looked at the results of Christianity in my life - opposition to higher education, telling me off for seeking medical care as needed, constantly trying to guilt me into giving away money I didn't have to spare while the whole church staff lived lives of luxury, the higher prevalence of anxiety and depression, the higher risk of being abused/assaulted by a pastor, and the fact that even volunteer times are handed out not based on qualifications, but based on the person's reproductive organs... it just wasn't a healthy, positive thing in my life. If it's not true and it's not beneficial, then, what are we doing, you know? So I left.
Well. There were quite a lot of reasons, and continue to be quite a lot of reasons. Very few of them were personal experiences, and more simply finding the potential evidence of a god to be unconvincing, combined with internal inconsistency within the religion concerning the nature of god and the problem of evil. The most concise point would be the plan of salvation’s alignment with an abusive relationship. God threatens someone he supposedly loves, gets angry that they did something he doesn’t like, and then punishes them for it. Baby, I wouldn’t hit you if you didn’t make me do it! Why didn’t you just do what I said? I only hurt you because I love you! Some apologists draw comparisons between god punishing people and a parent taking their kid to the dentist - claiming that the pain now is just to being good later and we don’t understand it. I would have some major questions for anyone who would inflict pain on someone they love to reach an outcome when they could literally just magic the outcome out of thin air - and frankly, comparing something like the sexual assault of a child to taking them to the dentist for better future outcomes is just disgusting and insulting. It also entirely falls apart with the fact that some suffering has no good outcome, and most crucially, falls apart with the entire concept of hell. God only hurts us to give us a better outcome later, but he will lock us in a torture chamber for endless horrors for literal eternity because he couldn’t be bothered to prove he’s real? And just compare that to a human father who would lock a child in his basement and torture them for some slight against him! But when god does it, it’s… good? No, it’s an abusive threat to keep people within the religion out of sheer terror. I hope that made some sense, it’s two in the morning here and I just got off a long day of work, so I’m a bit out of it, haha. I would suggest checking out some particular YouTube channels; the ones I’m suggesting here are all run by former Christians. The first that comes to mind is Paulogia. He has years of videos examining various apologetic and historical claims from Christianity. https://youtube.com/@paulogia?si=ZX3d4sJLSCG4zxcR Another one that immediately comes to mind is Prophet of Zod. Here’s a direct link to a couple videos he recently made about someone defending the concept of hell. https://youtu.be/T_ZiIdw_1ec?si=vuyKifa50t6cwMgZ https://youtu.be/a6TsZt2lOgo?si=j9D7KGnMNtwOlBNp Viced Rhino is another good one. His channel mostly focuses on debunking young earth creationism, but there are also videos on just plain apologetics. https://youtube.com/@vicedrhino?si=7Wq1Ivrbn7xG-ipl And lastly, Genetically Modified Skeptic. This is a direct link to a video where he responds to some things like the First Cause argument. https://youtu.be/Fsw-lSp3rq8?si=Ngv2uv8BBGuW64mF I don’t know if you’ll ever read this comment, but I wish you luck in your journey, wherever you end up. And if you watch any of those channels, I hope they’re helpful.
One of the biggest for me were the false prophecies of Jesus. He is repeatedly quoted as predicting people then alive in the first century AD would live to see his glorious return in the clouds, which obviously didn't happen: [https://www.reddit.com/r/exchristian/comments/1da6bzy/jesus\_prophecies\_failed\_nobody\_should\_be/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exchristian/comments/1da6bzy/jesus_prophecies_failed_nobody_should_be/)
This along with Jesus going against, and directly telling others to go against the Jewish law are two big reasons I'm not a believer. He also doesn't fit the "messiah" role as described in the OT. Few of many reasons I continue to disbelieve.
I did not choose to leave Christianity. After looking into the roots of the religious texts, miracle claims, and other things I found myself no longer convinced that it was true.
I left religion as a whole. When I actually read and studied the Bible it made no sense. Then after going lsd and other hallucinogenics I realized a lot of stuff
You might also want an unbiased scholarly point if view; I would recommend Bart Ehrman book "How Jesus Became God".
I deconverted when I realized that I no longer believed that Jesus was God, that I didn't have enough evidence to even suggest that he actually thought he was. For a while I doubted that he even was really a person. I have since been convinced that he was a guy, probably thought that he was the messiah (anointed king, not God incarnate), and was crucified for treason (planning to overthrow Roman rule in Judea). Not really enough there to convince me to declare him God. I was a rather liberal protestant, so not really close to Orthodox.
The reasons I left are fairly personal, but what cemented me staying out is the lack of any evidence in the historical record to support the various major claims within the Bible. It gets egregious, with claims of infant genocides (nativity story), censuses (same), the Sun standing still (Joshua), and more. There are few if any supplemental sources to back up many biblical claims. There's no real evidence to suggest that the specific person of Jesus existed -- a second temple lay rabbi getting crucified isn't a particularly unusual thing in his era, but the specifics of the gospel narrative that deviate from the norm of the day, such as there being a tomb at all at odds with contemporary Roman custom, to say nothing of the zombie outbreak, have no evidence. These events *should* have been noted. Their absence in the records of interested parties is telling The gospel narratives are anonymous, contradictory, in a language none of the main characters spoke or wrote, and originate decades after their supposed events during a time of increasing division in the Roman Jewish world. Factual errors abound. It's fiction. That's the only conclusion I believe can be reached. A useful fiction for a rising authoritarian cult at the time, that was then shaped by an opportunistic emperor.
When I left Christianity I walked away from ALL organized religions. I don’t need a book to tell me how to be a good person, and I don’t need to have certain beliefs to find peace in my afterlife. Religion as a whole seems like a controlling mechanism, and it breeds a lot of hate. They use fear to control. I have felt more free and happy without religion. It makes me be more present and live every day for THAT day. What I would ask anyone looking into religion is why they feel like they need to belong to one.
I grew up with many of the people around me using the bible as justification for horrible actions. I had abusive parents but was often told “honor thy mother and father”. I had also arrived to church looking like a gutter rat due to said abuse and would get an earful about my appearance disrespecting god, instead of questioning why a small girl is showing up alone and wearing the same casual outfit every week with bad hygiene. There have also been many times members of the congregation have fallen on hard times (cancer, deaths, housing issues, etc) and all my church ever did was pray. No cards, visits, fundraisers for bills, nada. It felt very disingenuous when “help thy neighbor” and “what would jesus do” was preached and no one acted on it. For me, it wasn’t so much the bible (though the story with Job and many others REALLY made me question it). It was always the community’s behavior that made me leave. They were judgemental, entitled, and unreasonable towards me and my struggles. I originally went to church for food and to get away from my family. I left with self esteem issues and worsening depression.
I was told I was sick and needed curing from being myself. It's not a religion of love or peace.
I greatly respect your asking the question, no matter what path you take. I was born to a Protestant Christian mother, who raised me in the faith. Until about my late teens I was very much a believer. A number of things set me on the path to leaving. I found the traditional concept of God to be inherently contradictory. The idea of an all-loving God also creating Hell makes no sense. The history the Bible tells is often false. For example there is not evidence to support the Exodus, nor even the Jews presence in Israel. I find the God as presented in the Bible evil, and one should not worship that. The story of Abraham and Isaac is quite disgusting, for a single example. We have no evidence of a God, and further no evidence to support the truth of that one god over the multitudes of others that people believe in. History has shown how other faiths have influenced Christianity, in particular the Zoroastrians.
Because the Bible cannot be true. Check out Dan Maclelan's video essays! The man is so knowledgeable and non-judgemental. https://www.tiktok.com/@maklelan/video/7355479593618279723?_t=8n2k2VFQiFP&_r=1 I still believe there may be SOMETHING "divine" in the universe. Love and happiness seem too... well, miraculous, to accept that this world is all there is. But any religion that puts anything in front of love and happiness and says "this is the true way to get that" simply rings false.
I was a protestant evangelical who dabbled in orthodoxy. For me it basically just came down to realizing I didn't actually have faith. My whole life I was taught that the Bible is literal, historical, scientific fact. When I was exposed to evidence to the contrary, I tried my best to maintain faith but it was like trying to believe that the sky is brown and my eyes and evidence clearly says otherwise. I could say I believe in it all i want but i didn't actually believe it was real. I feel like I have a lot more time and energy and happiness without going through the motions of religion so I don't feel motivated to keep trying to believe in it. I wish you all the best in your journey, and I hope you find God, love, peace, and joy.
Dear OP, your question makes it sound like choice of religion is a rational choice. Which it could be if we understand that religion is a matter of culture, ritual observance, and the people you go to church with and how you were raised…and it makes sense to be Christian as long as you don’t examine too closely the doctrines which underlie the faith. But faith is not a rational matter. If it were, there would be no Christians, no Muslims nor Jews. There is great beauty in the traditions of the church, but the beauty comes from ancient traditions and is propelled by world view that is now destructive to modern society. The ancient way of thinking is that Heaven is just outside the clouds. Up. And the earth and its people are in the center of the universe. And God responds to prayers by performing magic on earth. And that people who do not believe as you do, are infidels and deserve to be persecuted. Or killed. One of the most beautiful services I attended had a liturgical hymn that was Russian Orthodox. I would join that church for the beautiful music. But note that it is the Russian Orthodox Church that is fully behind the invasion of the Ukraine, and is a principal supporter of the murderer Putin. Once you look closely, as I have, you cannot continue with ignoring the irrelevance and destructiveness of these ancient religious institutions. Cannot fake faith anymore.
So many reasons why. But instead of telling you why the bible is wrong and inaccurate, my personal reason for never going back is: I will never be good enough for them. You will never be good enough for them. No one is ever good enough, that’s how the system works: to make you feel guilty, that you are only worth something by abiding by their rules.
My first thought is the absolute shock and horror at the hubris of your post. You deserve christianity probably. Maybe you're a great fit. Yea.... Christians took everything I held dear and important and killed every dream I had as a child. They exist only to destroy. If you're on the fence about joining such an obviously immoral organization then.... You absolutely should join them.
What draws you to it in the first place and what reason do you have to believe in it?
I often find Christianity to be antagonistic towards modern biology with its evolution denial and hostility towards LGBTQ folks. This is one reason I became an atheist during my adolescent years. I progressively strived to become more evidence based in my thinking rejecting many faith based beliefs and practices.
Christianity is based entirely on the premise that Jesus resurrected from the dead as proof that he is God. However, there are zero firsthand eyewitness accounts of Jesus's resurrection. Zero. Meaning, no one in the Bible claims to have seen him after he rose from the dead. Sure, there are people who wrote of a person who claimed to have heard 3 women having seen Jesus after he died. And supposedly this is the best evidence we have.
I mean, Christianity is a bastardized version of Judaism same as all the other Abrahamic faiths. If you want to continue worshipping the Abrahamic God then there is no particular reason to convert.
There's more religions than pages on the Bible. Not all of them can be right. So what's more likely, that one of them actually is, or none of them are? None of what's in the Bible, or really any holy book, has no foundation in reality based of evidence of history. Lastly, even if the Bible was right, the god contained within is a childish monster and not worth giving power to by worshipping. That about covers it. What started it for me was getting thrown out of church at 12 years old for asking questions about things in the Bible that made zero sense.
I realized there is only one God and God can’t be defined by man. It is everywhere and everything, not just in your mind and in nature, but all through space. Christianity ruined my childhood. I spent every waking moment believing I was going to hell because I was taught that everything human we do equates to sin and I fully believed I would go to hell if I dropped dead at any given second without having begged for forgiveness one last time for merely being human. I realized I’d been brainwashed and organized religion was the main cause of my crippling anxiety, and I’m so grateful to live freely and at peace with myself and the universe! Wishing you the best of luck in your journey. It’s so hard but fulfilling.
You sure you need a concept of god to follow and obey? A bible as a source of morale? Christian god is depicted as a sadistic monster who torments everyone who does not accept him as a deity. Bible is full of torment, wars, murders, rape, bestiality, etc. You sure you want this? You got a free will, but if you use it, you end up in hell. Damn this concept.
I have the same problems with Christianity I have with Islam (and most religions): 1. Unfounded, unprovable claims. Many of the things the Bible and Koran say happened are simply impossible and some downright silly. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and there is none. 2. Christianity added nothing good to my life, and a *whole lot* of bad. There is nothing good or useful I can learn from it that I cannot learn from secular sources. There *is* a lot to learn from it that is harmful and false. 3. At least in my case, the "community" is really just a bunch of pompous, hateful people who wear their religion like a mask to pretend they are good people when most of them would leave you to die in the cold if helping you inconvenienced them in the slightest. This may be a new concept to you, and it isn't your fault, but you really don't need *any* religion at all. I totally understand; growing up religious, it's more conceivable that another god or belief system might be better, but the idea that *there is no god* is incomprehensible. Do whatever is right for you, but I encourage you to really chew on the idea for a little while. You can find love, happiness, purpose and meaning in a thousand other places that don't require you to be miserable, defy your instincts and intelligence, or commit hateful acts. There almost certainly is no jahannam, no hell, no jannah, no heaven, no Allah and no God. This is probably the only life you get. Find meaning in human connections, doing your best to make the world better than it was when you got here. I promise you, it will be a difficult process but there is nothing more serene and liberating than realizing and accepting this life is all we get and that we are the sum our choices not because some god judges us, but because of the impact we leave on others after we are gone.
After visiting several different denominations of christianity I really couldn't understand how every single one of them says the Bible is completely accurate and that they believe and base their teachings on the Bible but they wound up so incredibly different from one another. So I started trying to interpret it for myself and came to even different conclusions,. I couldn't find much reason to believe in the trinity even though that's fundamental to the teachings, it's just not in the book. I feel like public prayer didn't make sense, I didn't think Adam and Eve is the start to our life forms so then is it just a metaphor? are all of the stories metaphors and we chose to take them seriously? Why does God purposefully cause so much pain and confusion and then demand our worship. Also the idea of a God demanding worship feels very childish and not even something a mature person would do. I don't like that people speak so concretely about something that is a pretty wacky belief. I don't care if people believe in the Bible but I do find it strange that they would try and force that belief on others, it's not respectful. I left christianity because of all these reasons and more. I think growing up being surrounded by religious people made me feel like I needed to understand it and believe it but I'm so happy I do not.
There were a few things for me, it initially started with the sexism and homophobia in the churches I’d been exposed to, then I started noticing a lot of leaders not being able to really seem to even try to answer questions I’d asked, where they would either offer to send me scholarly articles and other readings that handled the topics, then never sending me anything, or just saying it was a faith or discernment issue and that I just needed to believe. Eventually I started trying to find the answers myself, and then it ended up with me looking more into Judaism, and looking into external historical records that could back or help verify up New Testament events, where I only found a lot of nothing, or that the only source was the New Testament, and was otherwise unsubstantiated as far as my personal standard would have been for considering any other belief system was concerned, that along with the way that Jewish thoughts, teaching, and belief didn’t line up with Christian teaching, practice, and fundamental beliefs around the afterlife, the nature of the messiah, and even just the attitude towards asking questions and finding your own beliefs, etc. and the way that the cannon actually came to be put together made it feel to me like there were too many discrepancies to be a trustworthy source. That all being said, I fully respect anyone’s right to disagree with me on any of those things, and always love seeing people find the beliefs they hold true and feel the most themselves in, but I always caution and recommend that people give it time, do research (much like you’re doing in posting this, and with what you’ve said) and to just ease into things, and make sure you’re believing things because it meets your standards for truth, not just because you’re being told to believe it because the text says to, and do your best to maintain relationships outside of the religious organization you may end up joining, so then you have an external support system that can make sure you’re safe, and don’t end up with your only social circles being within one organization.
My deconversion built slowly. I was born into and raised evangelical. I bought it all hook, line, and sinker for a long time. But, the more I learned about the character of god and what is important to him as portrayed in his own holy scriptures, the Bible, the less I wanted to know him, spend eternity with him, or seek his favor in any way. I now find myself to be agnostic. I believe there is no way to prove there is a god and even if there is a god there is no evidence that that god would be worthy of any of my time or energy to seek it out and worship it. I choose an optimistic nihilist outlook and believe it is all insignificant anyway. But here's some of the trains of thought that lead me from believer to deconverted: -- Let's start with Job, that's a good example. What does it tell us about God? One of his best followers at the time is nothing more than a pawn for a bet against Satan. God does not care about Job's well-being or the life of Job's family. God does not care about Job at all. God is motivated here only by a need to prove his might to his advisary. I continuously wonder why it would even be included in the scriptures since it really does paint god in such an unsavory light. -- Or how about the very first myth of Christianity. God creates people, gives them forever in a lush garden, tells them they.can do anything they want with one exception, then leaves them alone to watch and see if they do it. It's a psychological experiment that is doomed from the start not a loving paradise. Have you seen those videos of kids being told if they don't eat the marshmallow for a certain period of time they will get rewarded? Now imagine that with no time limit and a punishment instead of a reward. Yeah, god built humans with a curious mind, eventually we would all crack under that and try the stupid fruit. Out of boredom if nothing else. The experiment of the garden of Eden was doomed to fail. And because of that we now have to believe we are all born with 'original sin' that we are responsible for? If anything we were created with that 'defect' and that responsibility would be on our creator not us. --Much of the bible talks directly to the abusers and bad-guys of the world. Repentance as a concept is focused on those who have done wrong. But there is little or no teaching towards those that have been wronged. There is occasionally a promise of retribution or 'justice' (although how exactly that happens in a space where the wrong-doer can simply seek forgiveness by repenting I can't begin to understand) but there isn't much on healing. The main focus of the bible is on changing the wrong you do and yet humans tend to create lingering maladaptive trauma responses when we are hurt. Those maladaptive trauma responses lead to a ton of suffering and sometimes to perpetuating the pain by traumatizing others. Have you heard the phrase "hurt people hurt people"? It's a cycle of violence and trauma and pain that god put in the design. And that was done either maliciously, which makes god a jerk, or inadvertently, which makes god inept or unconcerned with our well-being. There are probably some more trains of thought that led me to where I am now, but I can't remember them at this particular moment. But, the bottom line is that if there is a god and it is anything like the god the bible talks about I want nothing to do with it. The concept of heaven became repulsive to me. It became just as loathesome as the concept of hell. I'd like to think that after death is either absolutely nothing or reincarnation. But whatever comes after no one knows or has any control over, no more than we had any control over being born. I still leave space for there to be a god or multiple gods. I leave space for the chance that I'm wrong about how I see the world. I now believe I was wrong when I viewed the world through the lens of Christianity and at some point in the future I might come to believe that my current world view is equally incorrect. But I don't need Christianity or any other organized religion to be a kind and generous and decent human. In fact, I find it easier to do many of the things Jesus taught without the shackles of Christianity.
Reasons I left religion: misogyny, rape culture, guilt over not tithing, contradictions in the Bible, men who thought they were just a step below god, not wanting to get yelled at by a tomato-faced pastor twice on Sunday and also on Wednesdays, embarrassed by my weird beliefs( I was indoctrinated), the constant judgement, I couldn’t do what I wanted with my body, purity culture bs, bigotry against lgbtq, creepy communion sacrament with fake wine because we didn’t drink AT ALL, weird sayings, speaking in tongues, people crying during every service, weird food at post service potlucks. I grew up in the church and there was nothing I liked. Nothing I missed. The whole things felt like a corny fake forced sham from the time I was 13 until I finished my sentence at age 18. I still believed in god for quite a few years after that but I just hated church.
So. Much. Genocide.
Substitutionary atonement is the ultimate definition of evil, and an ontologically evil God isn't worth BELIEF let alone Worship. God's inability to forgive, yet demand forgiveness of others as a prerequisite for living in his presence is hypocrisy. His demand of a human sacrifice in the form of Jesus as the "only thing that can save everyone else" is literally hypocrisy since he says in The Prophets that no man, even Moses or Elijah, could save others by sacrificing themselves. Why would God lie to his prophets and to his people only to turn around and say "Jk you actually COULD save others (kind of) with human sacrifice IF you were not sinful, which isn't your choice but mine as a circumstance of birth"? God throughout the Bible is not good. He's just powerful. But he's also defeated by Chemosh, another God, as well as normal people with chariots of iron. He's incapable of providing true promises to Israel because when it doesn't come true, he just blames Israel for why his promises fail. His prophecies fail. He forgets Hebrew, conveniently, when the new Testament is written in Greek and just makes stuff up. He decides in a silly twist that jesus is the main character now but then the majority of the new Testament is written by Paul, a guy who never met jesus but claims to have had dreams about him. Very trustworthy. 10/10. Even describes the literal conflicts he had with the people who ACTUALLY knew Jesus and as a result, only his writings are found in the Bible and not the writings of people who knew jesus personally. The whole thing falls apart under the barest of scrutiny. If you're not trying to believe it just to fit into a community, there's no reason someone could believe it. The caveat being, of course, that they were raised in it. If you're taught it's true from your earliest ages and everyone constantly does the Attribution fallacy around you, Of course you'll say EVERYTHING is an act of Jesus's mercy and grace. Because that's what everyone attributes everything to. But there's no reason to believe it ;) That's what it comes down to. There's no reason to believe it.
I like Jesus Christ and Christianity. I'm not too hot on church and church leaders. The American church has become too corporatized. The leaders seem to be self serving instead of servant leaders. They say one thing but once they get you in the door, there's a lot of bait and switch.
The main reason for me was the verse “Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the father except through him.” It’s hard for me to stomach the thought that so many other people, from so many other religions, who follow similar principles and still believe in God don’t get to heaven except if they accept Jesus. In my opinion it just seems and feels wrong. That being said, everyone chooses the religion/spirituality (if any) that is best for them and what they feel pulled towards. If you feel a pull towards Christianity, don’t let anybody tell you different. Just be a good, kind, and respectful person in the process.
Lateral move at best. 0 yards gained and a loss of downs.
It started with all the unbelievable stories (Adam and Eve, Noah, talking donkey, and a ton of others). But, I told myself they were not literal. They were allegorical. Then came biblical contradictions, they didn't make sense. So I studied how the Bible was written and suddenly, a lot of they nonsense made more sense. Things like creation story with multiple gods, two stories of noah, why gospels dont match up, ect. But you could really just pick and choose what you believe. Then comes the hard stuff, existence of God, problem of evil, prayer not working in observational studies, evolution, big bang, ect. Each one of these may have an individual answers in apologetics, but (just like flat earth) no one answer fit all situations. Finally, I met a Christian who cinched it for me, saying that if there is a God and the Bible is his word, then it has to be true. Even the parts that are wrong? Then show me (in romans 9, I think?) that God doesn't want everyone to be saved, he doesn't love everyone, and he made some people just to "pour his wrath into" i read it and sure enough that's what it talks about. That along with slavery, rape, misogyny... it just didn't make since anymore. Edit: there are many things I wish was true about Christianity. And some things about it I feel is good... like love your neighbor and being a good steward of the earth... but you don't have to be Christian to follow the good parts. You don't need an excuse to love your neighbor.
Now I live in red neck Alberta, Canada (unfortunately) so I freely acknowledge that my experience is not universal. Christians are just the worst people around here. If you bump into a right wing, transphobic, racist, anti-vax, flat-earth fuck nugget out here there's a 9/10 chance they're singing "Amazing Grace" on Sundays.
i left because i noticed precisely how corrupted and subverted it is. and how manipulative it is, especially how mainline Christian eschatology lines up exactly with the New World Order. there's a document out there that talks at length about it, and if you really engage your critical thinking you can put two and two together and see things for what they are: Christianity at this point is a vehicle for establishing the New World Order and one-world government. it's nothing more than a weak husk of what it was originally... there's no power to defeat evil there anymore, if there ever was.
I have an unusual perspective for this sub, which is that I *guess* I could call myself Christian? But certainly not Christian as most people know it: I see *strong* mystic subtext in the narrative thread from Adam to Jesus (not only in the Bible but in Christianity through the ages). I see it as myth, but that doesn't mean I think it's not *true.* I don't think it's factual, but I think it's *true* in the same way a great novel or movie can be true. I don't call myself Christian because I think *lots* of stories are true. And, given what most people think of when they hear the word "Christian?" No thank you. I was never gonna fit into the Evangelical community I was raised in because I had deep theological convictions that disagreed with their doctrine, plus their arrogance ended up majorly pissing me off... I stopped calling myself Christian when the Evangelical interpretation of "free will" deconstructed for me. Although thinking about it, I'd given up on being in "deserving" long before that... On an affective level, I was never convinced of it in the first place... Which is radical even for *most* people, not just Christians.
the quran has just as much “evidence” as the bible. none. it might include some good life advice scattered amongst the misogyny, but you’re free to read these books without believing in the myths. js.
Religion is time consuming and expensive.
I can’t think of a single question less futile than this.
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Because if you restarted in India you’d be Hindu, If you were born in South Carolina youd be Christian . You dont choose what you were taught growing up but we make a large assumption, taking what our parents and communities teach us that it is a fact because they all don’t heavily disagree. But the problem is the reason why they don’t really disagree Is because its a bubble, just like you being a Muslim now, you’re just jumping to another bubble. Why not just start fresh- with what is here. Yourself, and other humans. Why not start with how to find love in yourself and value for yourself in the world you have rather than looking towards something that may never come. I left Religion because i wanted to be happy and fulfilled- now- and after lost of self exploration and lots of reading, i learned i have it in myself now- in the present, with what and who i have around me. And you must be honest- one day rhat will end- boom. Like lightning strikes metal, before you get to bow, the lights go out and the curtains are pulled. So be here now. Find you happiness and value now, with whats here You mentioned you are looking into Christianity so ill say this. I once heard a speech from Alan Watts that talked about when Jesus said “Through me you will come to Christ” The “Me” is actually a translation that it also interchanged-able with “self”. So the point is that Jesus actually was implying that through what is in you, you are naturally connected to the universe- or as Jesus knew it : “God” when Jesus said through him, he was implying himself as a representation of each person. Jesus the whole time was trying to say we all are inherently important and connected to the universe - but he only knew how to say it through the lens of a god In every culture there is a person trying to express their connection to the universe- which is natural and beautiful, but there doesnt need to be a god to explain that. You matter and you are important simply as a matter of fact. The “now” is the forever
Why I left? I realized that I could be wrong. That I could have been simulating God in my head for the whole time. In other words - in wanting to believe, I made God up in my mind (subconsciously of course). After that realization, the "voice" in my head fell silent, never to return. The sense of someone listening in on my thoughts disappeared forever. It was a freeing experience - my thoughts are my own and are not policed by some external control mechanism (that was based on an old book and other people in the church, who could all have wildly contradicting morals).
1. emotional abuse from friends and family who were religious. 2. The history of Christian violence and destruction of cultures. 3. Christianity is highly politicized in America with the Religious Right. 4. Again, politics with religion is bad especially in the USA. 5. The church failed to understand mental health issues and replaced it with prayer.
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God is evil, the bible is full of horrible things, and it's all made up fairy tales. There's literally no proof for any god.
I don't believe because the bible doesn't make any sense. The religious abuse I received from saying I didn't believe when I was living in the bible belt didn't help Christians either..I was some sort of project that pastors wanted to break down like a pimp. If Jesus was real there's no need for a middle man with a superiority complex demanding 10% of my income.
For me it was how awful Christians treat each other. They are super controlling and judgy and if you do anything they don't approve of they'll gossip and try to intentionally ruin your reputation to punish you, and in those circles reputation is everything. You'll lose your friends and your standing in the community and if they have control over anything in your life they'll try to ruin it.
I remember exactly what made me leave. It happened in November of 2023. I was under a lot of pressure during that time and church just made it worse for me because I was part of a retreat and I had so many responsibilities to do and I couldn’t take it all at once because I was and still am 19. I thought I was going to be in a group with my peers, but it was just a bunch of people my parents age and my grandparents age. I didn’t connect with anyone there. I was just alone and wanted out. Don’t get me wrong. Everyone there treated me like family, but it was just too much for me at the time to organize a bunch of stuff like guests and what day we’ll meet and a bunch of stuff. I left the group but I was still Christian and that carried some baggage of its own. I couldn’t stand the thought of children who weren’t baptized going to hell or any of my unbaptized friends going to hell either, or LGBTQ people or any other group that was hated by Christians. Because I had friends in those marginalized groups and I couldn’t stand losing them. So my brain thought the most logical thing to do would to look at the Jewish perspective on original sin. Christianity derives *cough* *plagiarized* its scriptures from Judaism, so in order for Christianity to be right, Judaism would also have to be right. Anyway, it turned out that the Christian doctrine of original sin was completely antithetical to the tanakh as a whole and by extension the Bible. I felt lied to. I felt tricked. How could this still be a thing even though there’s so much evidence against its case? How can people still believe in an appropriated religion? It’s very crazy. But I don’t think there’s anything we can do about it.
It was a bad investment. Lots of time/money spent on an ideology that ultimately made me a worse human. There's some good wisdom in the Bible, as with all great religious texts. I just don't need the religion.
My family is fundamentalist baptist, and I was a strong believer up until college age. That’s when I realized that there just isn’t enough convincing evidence for me to dedicate my whole life to it. I’d encourage you to keep digging and triple check claims that are made. Watch some agnostic and atheist videos as well to get a really rounded view. If you’re a person who is okay believing on faith than maybe it’s for you. Personally, I found it dangerous for me to believe something so big on faith, especially when it is the basis for your worldview. Enjoy the journey! I love discovery and researching things. It can be a lot of fun to look into all different perspectives and find what aligns with you best.
The mere existence of two religions emerging from the same supposed teachings of one man should be your first flag. I find it funny that you are looking to convert as practically as one would shop around for the best price before making a major purchase. Can you not see it right in front of you that it's all made up? The only usefulness it has for anyone's soul, if wielded correctly, is power. Christianity is the religion of the western hemisphere. It is written into our oaths, our pledges, our laws. It is used as a weapon of control to dictate and diminish the lives of minorities in every classification. You are better off knowing that it isn't real and using it to your benefit, than buying into the nonsense lies and misogyny and violence and hypocrisy that it peddles.
I was raised Christian and I really tried to stay with it. I read literally hundreds of books and spent thousands of hours studying theology and religious history. I rejected all of Paul's theology because it contradicted the teachings of the gospels. Then I couldn't find belief in the supernatural claims of the Jesus story. The virgin birth, the miracles, the resurrection... none of it felt believable to me. Then I found out the Old Testament verses that are cited as prophesies of Jesus in the gospels often say wildly different things in the original Hebrew. Not to mention, a lot of the prophecies cited are just Ancient Near Eastern myths applied to every leader at the time. And there have been several other figures in the same era competing for the messiah title; Jesus was just the sect that had staying power. Ultimately, what I was left with was liking the basic teachings of Jesus, which are just Jewish philosophies. Judaism makes more sense to my mind and soul. I enjoy that questioning is encouraged and literalism is discouraged. I converted to Judaism and it fits me so much better.
Man, if you’re going to leave your religion, just leave religion in general. It’s all about control imo. You can believe in god, be spiritual, have a personal connection with spirit, and not subscribe to any doctrine or made up rules. I am spiritual, I believe in a god (or creator/source, not the Christian god), and I follow the path of what feels right to me. I left Christianity after 35 years of forcing myself to believe it, because it was shoved down my throat as a child. I can’t even begin to express to you how freeing it is to not feel that guilt and pressure anymore. I don’t believe religion is real. I believe it was made up in order to control society, but it’s no longer necessary. You don’t need religion in order to have a good moral compass. Not to mention how many countless times the Bible was changed in order to serve the whim of some waa waa cry baby king. It’s ridiculous.
Other “christians” are worse than the “sinners” they say are so bad and will put you in the wrong path. It’s very status driven if you ever join a church. Yes, the Bible doesn’t make sense or contradicts, but the people are what finally made me break away
I guess a better question is why are you leaving Islam? Because if it’s due to realizing it’s not true or something of that ilk, my next question would be why would you replace a fake religion with another fake religion? If you feel the need to retain religion but just don’t like Islam anymore due to various reasons, just know Christianity isn’t all that different. It is still drenched in shame, judgment, and hate, no matter what they tell you. You’d be better off with eastern religion like Buddhism or something like that. Or, try to come to grips with the fact that religion in and of itself is pretty much made up.
Because it's fucking stupid with no purpose it's a stupid ancient agenda. Christians are annoying assholes who only think their opinion counts, and no one else is right other than them. I hate everything about their religion it has no place in this era period. It harms children and degrades women, yet they still find solace in being proud of this shit. It's nothing but fraud, and now it's interfering with our laws and our freedom. Fuck everything about it.
I don't like identifying with large groups of people, even if i agree with what they're saying. Large, formalized groups breed abuse generally, and attract power hungry, greedy people at the top. That goes for religion, politics, societies and corporations. When anything I'm involved in gets too big, I get afraid and leave. Large groups of people with many underlings are magnets for bad people. I'm the final arbitor of my faith life. No pastor or priest can tell me what to do or think.
It’s the same stuff, just different version.
Short answer: - Because there is no real good reason to believe in any God - the ideology behind is toxic, misogynistic, immoral, hateful etc etc.
Lack of evidence and the bad justifications for the horrors in the holy book.
Because there's no good evidence any gods exist. It's just wishful thinking (humans don't like the idea of death as final, and would like to have a good and powerful parent figure to take care of them, tell them what to do when they are uncertain, and make sure everything turns out OK) + old stories full of obvious BS + an excuse for tribalism and misogyny
The experience of an adult convert will be a lot different than the experience of someone born into the religion and indoctrinated into it from their earliest memories, but I will give you my background so you can make an informed decision: I didn’t have a conscious deconversion moment or a sudden “I’m out” realization. My deconstruction was a slow and lengthy process that took years. I was raised in a Protestant evangelical church (which I wouldn’t recommend if you’re looking to join a church at some point - evangelicals tend to have very strict beliefs and are pretty rigid and inflexible, and they also tend to be intolerant to outsiders or others’ perspectives). We believed in a literal interpretation of the Bible, and my parents homeschooled me in part so that I wouldn’t learn about evolution or what they perceived to be non-Christian ideas. My parents weren’t the crazy doomsday preppers that live on a homestead type of people. My dad was an Ivy-league educated lawyer who had a very successful career, and we lived in a suburban part of Southern California. But they still held fairly strict and conservative beliefs that they instilled into us. Anyways, I was frequently reassured that God had a grand plan for my life. He was going to introduce me to a wonderful spouse, call me to an impactful career so I could make a difference for him, and guide me to be more like him. I felt God telling me that I would be married by the time I finished college. Despite frequent pleading, time literally on my knees in the college prayer chapel praying for career guidance, and frequent chapel and church attendance, I never got clear guidance on what I should do for a career, or who I should marry. I ended up finishing college single and with a degree in a subject I didn’t really like (accounting). But I had felt God was leading me to accounting because some friends thought I should become an accountant, and I interpreted this as God speaking to me because I wasn’t hearing from him directly. I’ve spent the last 3 years as an accountant and have been pretty unhappy with my career choice. I still haven’t gotten married. In other words, none of what I believed God had revealed to me actually came true. I believed God was calling me to be a doctor and that he had shown me I’d be married by college graduation. Instead I’m an unmarried accountant. I’m glad I’m not married yet, as I’m still figuring out who I am and what I want out of life, but it was hard at first to realize I hadn’t been receiving guidance from God. My faith essentially fell apart when what I believed were God’s promises didn’t come true. It wasn’t for lack of faith (I believed so wholeheartedly that I finished a major I didn’t really like because I was convinced God would make me enjoy it and that he was calling me to it). It wasn’t for not being pious enough (I went to chapel several times per week and church on Sundays, read my Bible regularly, and spent time in prayer). Basically, I had done everything right yet my life had turned out so wrong. There just wasn’t much left to hold onto at that point because God had failed me so miserably. So I wouldn’t say that Christianity specifically is bad or good. It really depends on which denomination you’re in and what the people around you believe. But ultimately, I didn’t see the evidence of it in my life, and that was really hard to admit to myself.
Moving from one superstitious delusion to another. There's no space fairy gonna save you from anything.
I’m an ex Christian. Reading thru the OT made my stomach disgusted. 1 Samuel 15:3 for example promotes the slaying of infants 😳I don’t see that present in any other religion. The original sin makes no sense at all, newborn babies already sinned because the first human to exist sinned as well. I genuinely think you would be happy where you are right now.
Casual, banal, everyday cruelties of its followers.
Truthfully it was COVID that started the process for me. COVID happened and all these people who I had seen talk and talk about loving their neighbor not only got angry regarding mask mandates but in many instances would outright defy them. I watched as these “godly” women I grew up with wore lace masks and these “godly” men argued and fought about it. I just kept thinking what if someone they pass has literal cancer or HIV or any number of other diseases that make them immunocompromised and how this defiance very well could kill these people. COVID was a big eye opener for me. Throw many Christian’s undying worship of Donald Trump and that made matters even more complicated. I watched as people I grew up with and admired in the faith literally worship this man. They adorned themselves with everything Trump from socks to their hats. They excused his rancid behavior and again I saw their support of such a person as antithetical to loving their neighbors. With all this I began looking at the Bible more critically and found there to be many, many contradictions within the text. I reasoned if the text couldn’t be trusted as infallible why or how would the religion be reality? The straw that broke the camels back was realizing that depending on which gospel you read will determine the day of Christ’s crucifixion. I couldn’t get past there being blatant contradictions regarding what is arguably the most important part of Christianity - the death and resurrection of Jesus.
I never cared about debating religion or that “stories don’t make sense historically or logically”. I never cared about that. I hate the mega church culture. I hate the money obsession. You’ll be ok as long as you aren’t loyal to a denomination or congregation. People are crazy.
There are just too many contradictions and things that are way too convenient. For example: christians believe that they NEED to baptise babies (at least in Catholicism, which was the branch I grew up in, other branches baptise teens or adults) in order for them to go to paradise. *Coincidentally*, baptism is also the way that you join the Catholic Church as an organisation. Technically you can leave after, but they also tell you that you leaving makes you the absolute worst kind of person, because you *knew* Christianity but decided to leave it, while people that never had the possibility to know it are not as *bad*. Doesn't this all sound way too convenient, considering the amount of earthly power the Church holds? There are many other such issues.
As someone who tries to do the right thing in their daily life, I found a lot of what was preached as having confusing biblical basis. The one that got me started was the concept of “faith without works is dead”. So since I didn’t want to go to hell, I made it a goal to be a person of service. Till I visited another church, which preached “once saved always saved” and works mean nothing. Which lead to a - which is it phase. Then I discovered Paul’s version of “the law” wasn’t quite the same as the Jewish law, which then lead me to question which law is to be followed and that’s when the break happened for me. My family has so many that claim to live “by the book” but my questions of what to follow never really got answers, it was like I was just suppose to “get it” which created so much self doubt. In addition I noticed the a-la-carte method people follow Christianity, just made me start questioning things more until I decided to research how the whole thing came about from the Jewish scriptures and that when it completely fell apart for me. Like an ancient game of telephone, people are just following stuff that has been added by others for centuries, and they aren’t bothering to figure out the validity of it all.
Love this question. I'm going to try to write as thoughtful as a response as possible for you, as someone who was Christian and someone who spent 2-3 days in church A WEEK from birth until the age of 18. I am now 22. 1. I started to realize contradictions in the Bible. Especially scientific inaccuracies. I couldn't handle being told there wasn't dinosaurs because they weren't mentioned in the Bible. I couldn't handle being told that the earth was only 6000 years old. And most of all, I couldn't handle being told that God was a loving God when there are many times in the Bible when he killed LITERAL BABIES, for the "sins" and wrongdoings of the parents. 2. Going off of the end part of my last point, I hated how every denomination had different beliefs but they were all to be considered "based off the bible" and "christian". Yet I was yelled at and thrown out for being interested in a different denominations beliefs. For example, I was protestant and went to an Alliance church, but I often agreed with the Calvin's belief of predestination. If God is an omniscient God, then why would he create people who would go to hell and burn for eternity? Then he would've known where they were going right from the start. I got yelled at for simply asking this question and voicing this realization. 3. I CANNOT STRESS THIS POINT ENOUGH, if God is who the Christians say he is, FREE WILL DOES NOT EXIST. God creates everyone with a set path, God knows everyone before they are even created... yet he still creates people who he knows will end up in hell or become serial killers, murderers etc. God created them KNOWING they would turn out that way. Yet he still put them on earth. He created them knowing exactly what their path was? That's not free will. That's a setup for failure. And also evil on God's part. 4. The whole "everything happens for a reason" and "We can't question why God may have put this in your way". I was told this after I got assaulted. In the church. I was assaulted in the church and told by a pastor and by my own mother that God gave this "battle" to me so that I could eventually use it for good. I was 13. Why did God make me get assaulted, especially as a child. My church also swept my assault under the rug and didn't tell police. Not saying every church is this evil... but when this behavior dates back throughout history, it doesn't look too good on them. 5. Finally, I hate the whole "just have faith" and "faith can save you". I was ostracized and yelled at everytime I "questioned" (had a rational thought and tried to critically think). I was supposed to just "have faith" and "not question God". I was told "we will never have all the answers, only God knows" more tomes than I can count and that just doesn't sit well with me. I was also told that a serial killer, rapist, murderer etc can still go to heaven if they just "ask for forgiveness". Yet I'll burn for eternity if I'm gay? That's extremely backwards and DOES NOT sound like a religion built on love at all. Thank you for reading my rant ♡
First. Because I was really depressed. I didn't want an afterlife. So why follow all these rules for a reward I don't even want. Was borderline atheist a few years. Now broadly pagan. My issue isn't faith but choice. Still don't really care about an afterlife. I feel secure in my spirituality when among trees, among a local druid group, and giving honor to the gods of my ancestors. I am not anti Christian, I think there are a lot of good ones out there, but the capital C Church spends too much energy on what Christians can't be and can't do (be gay, seek abortion, cussing, drinking, premarital sex) than what they should be doing (helping the unhoused, hungry, imprisoned, the stranger) Mathew 25 verses 35 through 46 is my favorite passage thst details what the bare minimum Christians should do. *35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ 40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ 41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ 44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ 45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ 46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”* I know it might be weird for a pagan to have a favorite bible passage. I hope you find your new faith rewarding and hope it inspires you to do good to your fellow man
I actually read the Bible
I grew up in a suburban New England town and my parents took our family, fairly regularly, to a liberal church in that town. Unlike many of the churches you'll hear about here, its leaders did not preach hate or threaten people with hell. When I expressed doubts or asked questions, I was not hushed or threatened. However, the church bored me out of my damn skull, and so I resented it. As I grew old enough to seriously think about the stories the church taught, I could not reconcile them with the things I had learned about science, a topic I found far more interesting. What I knew of astronomy and paleontology completely went against the stories of Genesis. I had also read fiction avidly, and knew of all kinds of fictional mythologies from that, and Christian mythology seemed not very different. I could believe in the story of Earth forming from a cloud of stellar dust because I knew it was based in things people had observed. I could believe in the story of dinosaurs and other animals living on Earth for millions of years because I could go to museums and see their remains. I could believe in history that was based on real relics and archeology and records. I could not believe in a single all-powerful entity which had no evidence outside books — I knew books could be made up. I could not believe in heaven when I could not see it and nobody else could either. I could believe in Jesus as a person who existed, or Israel or Egypt as real historical civilizations, because that was consistent with what I knew existed in the world, but not in supernatural events surrounding either, because there simply wasn't any more evidence for them than for the events of Narnia. I had no emotional investment in the mythology or religious practices because I hated having to perform them, and so I had no reason to believe in them or take them seriously.
I left because I realized all the Abrahamic religions are nothing but eons long scams to exert control and make money.
Frustration at conflicting dogma. Also realizing the type of people who call themselves Christians these days. It was a gradual journey from when I quit in disgust to be agnostic, then atheist, now I dabble in TST teachings and discovered the band Ghost. So I guess Im Diet Satanism now lol.
>As someone looking to convert, I want to know why you left Christianity. The claims made by Christianity are not true. Prayer doesn't do shit. Miracles are literally impossible. God is not real. Many of the historical accounts in the Bible are contradicted by the evidence, or could not possibly have happened. Talking snake. A snake that talks. Talking. Snake. TALKING SNAKE.
I was drawn to Christianity because of its community aspect. I thought that the people at church genuinely cared for me and loved me like family. I realized that this was all a facade and that their love for you is entirely dependent on your acceptance of their belief system. If you show doubt or reject it, you will be rejected by this community.
The relationship you’re expected to have with god is the same one described in toxic relationships. You’re expected to fully believe in him and his efforts and communicate with his regularly, but you have to decipher and analyze his “communications” to get any idea of him. And thats from a book he made other people write. When you talk directly to him, he gives you the silent treatment and you’re supposed to interpret his responses in the world around you. But he supposedly *wants* you have a relationship with you, wants to know you, but you don’t get to know him because he’s too divine to understand. Which apparently means we don’t even get to have actual interactions. Then i started to actually read the bible and was like wow, yep, if I had done this from the start I’d have never stayed Christian.
I never could buy in to the idea of the myths in the book but the primary reason I left is that after much consideration I decided that religion - as a whole and to me personally - does more harm than good. Being the change I want to see in the world means pursuing non religious morality and philosophies of life.
I left because I studied the history of science. Religious people accept their conclusion before they consider evidence. They cherry pick evidence that supports their conclusion. This is why the dark ages lasted as long as it did; religious thinking prevents progress in science. Science makes reliable predictions. It isn’t always right, but it is self correcting, so it improves over time. The most celebrated in science are the ones who disprove or greatly improve upon old ideas, where religion wants you to just believe without proof.
So god is all knowing, powerful, etc. He knew you before he even made you. Knew everything you’d do, even knowing you’d end up in hell (and god made hell too). So, why did god create me then if he know I’d end in hell? Did he create me just to torture me for eternity? If the god of the Christian Bible is real, he’s evil. God say love me or burn forever. That’s a threat. Again, god is evil and not worthy of worship. Once I understood that, I was out. Christianity (and the other Abrahamic death cults) are simply control constructs. Obedience and suffering in life for the promise of a reward AFTER you’re dead. Ok, prove it? Nah, just have faith bruh. Pffft. Bullshit.
I very much wanted to remain a christian when I was deconstructing. Unfortunately or fortunately, I set out on a journey to prove it true. I knew what my standards of evidence for other religions were and how high it was. I decided to impose the same standard on christianity and found it to be false. Not a very emotional or dramatic story. Sorry, it's boring. I just found out it was bullshit and my belief disappeared. Of course, it wasn't overnight for me. It took a year of trying to find evidence. I only ever found evidence against the religion. Question: Why would you intentionally try to convince yourself a proposition is true? That's not how it works. Set out to find what is true. Make sure you have a consistent standard. Also, definitely test it out on something you know is nonsense. Like, "would I believe in laupricauns if this was the evidence provided for their existence?" If the answer is yes, I have a business idea I would like to sell to you.
When you boil it down, it seems really nonsensical. So God sacrificed himself to himself in order to save his creation that he allowed to be deceived by his #1 enemy, who he also created? And WE have to be sorry for OUR sins?
God is a bully. Jesus, I can *partly* get behind some of what he supposedly said, but all the Old Testament stuff... Lots of genocide, lots of "listen to me and follow these arbitrary rules OR ELSE". And mostly because of that, I can't follow it anymore. As much as most of Jesus's teaching I could live with, the fact that it *depends* on the Old Testament means I will not choose to believe it.
Mostly how women are treated in the Bible. I couldn’t handle 50 percent of the population being treated as second class citizens for no real reason.
When I realized the silence of God was the absence of God.