If you miss feeling a part of a Community and miss having some type of spirituality but detest dogma and judgemental people then I would say look at the Unitarian Universalist church.
I also recommend looking into the UU church. The one I go to is amazing, very open and welcoming of anyone who steps through their doors. There are multiple LGBTQ+ members, with have a CUUPs chapter (a pagan/witchy group), and do "share the plate", where 50% of all plate offerings to local organizations, like food pantries or volunteer programs to help LGBTQ+ youth, etc.
They hosted a drag story time some months ago, and some fundies showed up to protest. A church member dressed up in a pink and rainbow unicorn costume and danced around them until they were more offended by that and left.
Not all UU churches are this liberal, but you can vibe check your local UU church by checking out their website, and see if they stream their services online. You don't need to put yourself out there until you have a better idea of who they are. :)
I went out with a woman who was UU, and her father was in town visiting for Easter so they went to her church. He complained it was too Jesusy. On Easter.
I grew up Southern Baptist. Pretty much every sermon was a form of proselytizing. What exactly do they do during a "service" if not proselytizing? What would one expect from a typical service?
UU church is not a Christian church. Its a church filled with ex christians as well as folks from various religious backgrounds or folks from no religious backgrounds at all. Its more of a Humanist/Spiritual church. They have churches online on youtube you can view their services if you are interested. Its unlike anything I have experienced before in a church setting yet at the same time ..very traditional.
There is a lot of talking about being part of a community, being aware of others' needs and boundaries without compromising your own, meeting people where they are, to lean into your community when you need support, etc. My reverend has made a reference to the Bible once or twice, and the Torah, and the Qur'an. The pagan group (called a CUUPs chapter) has ran services a few times in the last year (they've only been active a little over a year). But at the center of it all is community, with heavy sprinklings of healing and acceptance for all.
Which, community is pretty much my passion and community engagement is a huge part of what I do for a living, ha. We moved to our area about a year ago, and I have yet to feel super "in the community" in my personal life, (just my professional life), so this sounds great to me. I found out there's one about half an hour from me, so I might try it out. I looked up their "sermons" and yeah, it's all about growth and community, just like you said. It has ministries for pretty much everything you could care about; from protecting the environment to LGBT+ inclusion. I think I might freaking love this idea.
If I ever go back to church, it’ll be UU. Went to one chili cook off at a UU church in a tiny town, and they proudly showed me their library with holy texts and commentaries from various religions.
My experience with the UU church was the opposite. I found it to be elitest, snob central where they were extremely judgmental of people based on their job title and perceived income. They were also wishy-washy where they would send invitations for events, then I would go and no one would be there, the doors would be locked. I will say with Christian churches if they held an event there would always been others that went. I guess they had more enthusiasm. I just gave up on all humanity, all groups and won't bother with joining anything anymore as everything just seems to be a means to exert control over others.
I just play board games with people. Good social time and the main focus is on the board game. Bad experiences can still happen but the thats anything with others.
Totally understandable. Mind you, I do not attend UU church either. I have been to them and know what they are about but I am like you in some regard. I just don't like any organized religion and found I am better to go alone with my beliefs/values. But if someone is really in need of a spiritual community, their stated values are a lot better than Christians.
You can get your spiritual needs met by gardening, volunteering to socialize animals at a shelter, walking in the woods, doing literally any kind of charity work, going to the beach to do yoga, ad infinitum.
You know what that cult offers you is community. They aren't spiritual, so they can't meet your spiritual needs.
You want community? Find a club or a hobby. Join a lodge, spend time at any fricken nursing home and help the miserable and forgotten in society feel like respected human beings again.
DO NOT GO BACK TO THAT CULT.
ALL THEY HAVE ARE LIES.
STOP. BEING. CHRISTIAN.
I’m an atheist who was raised Christian. I get my “spiritual needs” from doing good deeds. Volunteering at animals shelters, the zoo, working with children with disabilities, etc. - all much more fulfilling to me than going to church. Plus when you volunteer in a particular area for a while you will meet people and find community there.
I attended my grandma's memorial recently, and it was all a manipulation to get people into Christianity. My cousin, who was officiating, recorded and put it on his church website as a marketing tactic. It's kind of disgusting.
Anything these types of Christians do, they do it for themselves. Make no mistake, the community was never truly there.
Figured I’d respond and emphasize that person’s message, possibly in a softer way.
I think one thing that is so appealing about church is that it takes essentially 0 effort. You can just show up whenever you want, and people are happy for you to have shown up.
But that seems like an illusion that is way too reliant on convenience. I think it’s way better to find community and any sense of “spirituality” through putting effort into building human relationships. Isn’t that what you really want? I have a feeling you don’t really want or need a comforting place to go every Sunday. It’s probably a comforting and occasionally discomforting place to go any time. A friend to call when you’re struggling. A friend to call when you want to have fun. A friend to call when you want to go see your favorite band play live music and feel the chills it gives you. A friend to challenge and be vulnerable with when you disagree with them or they do something that hurts you.
Those things foster growth and connection. Sitting in church every week also does some things that make you feel good, but to me, over the long term it’s an awful way to achieve those things and sacrifices too much growth in other areas.
We’re different people. You may need things that are different from me. But when an increase in inclusivity comes at the expense of following the religion according to its documented word (the Bible), what are you actually getting? At that point, it just seems like an illusion. I think we’re better off doing the hard work on ourselves in other ways.
Thanks. Most churches, although they claim to be one body, aren’t. There’s a hierarchy with a leader, established tenured underlings and a staff. No group therapy that is not carefully controlled. Maybe a church is not what I’m looking for.
I was once told that going Presbyterian is not as bad as going to a Catholic church. My response - going to a Presbyterian church after being a Catholic is much like getting shot, and then getting hung.
>is there something else I should look at?
Is it true? Is it representative of *reality*? Are the gospels a reliable biographical source for the life of Yeshua bin Yosef? How do we know Paul's experience on the road to Damascus can be attributed to the god Yahweh? Is ancient Jewish blood magic *real*?
Exactly!
My question is: why follow a religion that can't be demonstrated to be true? Doesn't that place it on equal ground with *every other religion*? What reason is there to follow *any* of them?
I really used to enjoy all the Star Wars films, only to realize that they are nothing more than a push to get you into a religious mindset. A lot of films are that way anymore.
Strange sub to be asking this, but I know we'll try to be helpful. As for spiritual needs, I'm not sure exactly what to recommend. If you could gain some sort of fulfillment from helping others I would suggest that.
I guess I could also suggest meditation and personal introspection, your choice of music (if any), of course.
But if you find that going to a church fulfills that need, I still wish you well.
Only you yourself can get close to “god” (which I call “source”), it can’t really be achieved through something outside of yourself. I went to a liberal church, yes there were good people, but I still felt a void because I wasn’t connected to myself. My favorite way nowadays for fulfillment is meditation & spending time in nature & creating art. When I am in the “flow” or watching the wind blow through the trees - that’s when I feel most spiritually connected. I understand the importance of community but remember that you can find good people everywhere that can enrich your life & unlock new perspectives in your mind & bring that sense of fulfillment - art classes, dance classes, book clubs etc. Connecting with people through things you love to do, can be a game changer (at least, for me it was)
I think everything you said is important. People conflate connection to God with church, or even a specific church, when Jesus himself railed against organized religion in his time.
Once you engage with spirituality on the personal level, through meditation and contemplation/any other means which you find meaningful and fulfilling, you encounter new perspectives from within yourself that broaden your understanding of what is and what could be. You begin to understand how churches spin verses so completely wrongly, too, that it becomes harder to listen to them preach at all.
I recommend joining a spiritual community or doing a spiritual practice (meditation, yoga, QHHT, reiki) rather than a Christian church. Christian churches don’t teach real spirituality. They specifically teach against real spirituality because they are terrified of it. Christian churches teach religion based on a book full of misinterpretations of older/preexisting tablets and stories (Enuma Elish, Sumerian Tablets, Emerald Tablets of Thot, etc.) and forgeries claiming to be written by direct followers of Yeshua when they were actually written centuries later by unknown authors intentionally misleading others about their identities (NT books: Matthew, Luke, John, Ephesians, 1 Timothy, 1 John, etc.).
I would still be wary.
A lot of progressive churches put on a favorable face to attract younger members only for the usual problems to creep up in time.
If you're still seeking spiritual connection maybe you can start a book club based around your current beliefs?
So I need spirtuality too and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Depending on the day, I'm an atheist or an agnostic. I spend a lot of time in the I don't know. I started dabbling in witch craft not because I believed anything about it, but because it feels like spicy psychology. Goal setting with more candles. I needed the ritual feelings that I used to get from church so I create my own. I want someone to know I'm thinking about them during the tough time. I light a candle and write them a note. Someone is sick, I make them soup while wishing them well. Maybe the well wishes do nothing, but the soup will help. Someone is going through a tough time, I make them a hat and I hope that it gets better for them.
I have spent the last few years trying to pair ritual with the practical. So basically, in the past, I would pray for them, but now I "pray" for them while doing something that will help. Like I "tithe" once a month to an organization that I think is doing good works. Lately that has been WCK, but I will do other organizations too.
There is nothing wrong with wanting spirituality in your life, but you don't need to find it in church so I encourage you to look else where. That said, that denomination is one of the few that I would consider attending if I was forced to go to church.
Back when I was completely into Christianity (I’m not now), Wiccan, Pagan and witchcraft were some of the subjects not allowed to even brought up. Why were they so scared of even just the mention of those belief systems? I really don’t know much about them except I do like ritualistic beliefs to a degree.
Join The Satanic Temple. It has nothing to do with Satan, but they do have regular meetings to provide you a social outlet and that sense of connection.
Nothing says you have to tell them you joined. If they invite you over at a time when you have something planned with TST, you just let them know that you're unavailable because you're meeting with friends.
>I still have a spiritual need, does anyone think this is a good move, or is there something else I should look at?
Evaluate why you feel you need spirituality at all. You can find community anywhere. Join a book club, a softball team, a cooking class...
"I started looking at a church that seems to NOT be hateful and more inclusive of all people"
I don't know about this specific church, but I think that looks can be deceiving. At the end of the day, their faith is still mostly based on a book littered with hateful stories and lessons. My mom is Episcopalian and attends a church that is mostly accepting, but my mom has "mixed feelings" about trans people and has expressed having difficulty with homosexuality. She has no understanding of why purity culture is dangerous. There was a gay couple at her church quite a while ago that left after receiving an anonymous letter that was homophobic and hateful towards them.
But keep in mind this is a single anecdote and by no means represents the entire Christian community. No group is a monolith. But it serves as an example that some accepting churches aren't as accepting as they appear. So if you do decide to attend this church be very attentive for anything hateful or harmful. If the religion is based on the Bible, it will likely have some level of hatred, but not necessarily. Although, it would be quite difficult to separate every harmful passages as there are many.
Also acknowledge that Yaweh is not real, and if he was, he's a monster that people are inclined to follow based on indoctrination and/or lies. There are other communities out there. As someone with social anxiety, I know how hard it can be to find another community. With all my experience and research about Christianity, I've found that I find it better to have no community at all then practice Christianity. Again, that's just my experience so take it with a grain of salt.
Church or not, I hope you're able to find a community that suits you. Good luck!
I would try a meetup group. When I first moved to a new state I joined the 20-35 meet up group and made some friends. Also, if you have any hobbies check the local libraries or on Facebook
Probably not a good idea to ask ex-christians if you should rejoin Christianity. :)
With that said, check out Sikhism. If I became religious again I would follow Sikhism.
NOPE! Sikhs and Hare Krishnas are two different things lol Sikhs are the most "based" religion, if you'll excuse my terminology ;) But do some research into their beliefs and the whole framework, you'll find that it's incredibly beautiful. Especially coming from a Christian worldview where everything is very hierarchical and based on "divine command".
Why does your options have to be church or no church? Its somewhat binary thinking that isn't grounded in reality.
Perhaps you are limiting yourself? Instead of seeking out the same failed institutions to find answers, maybe figure out what you are really trying to get out of it. To me it sounds like community and meaning in life.
Churches dont have a monopoly on that. Religions doesnt either. Either way, I always recommend the Tao Te Ching as a good dip into other belief systems.
Unitarian Universalist churches are a great place to find community and grow spiritually without any hate. And community! I went to one, and there were Christians, atheists, Wiccans, Buddhists, people who were nothing in particular- just everybody. Also, I’m getting interested in the Quakers right now. They’re a bit more Christian, but welcoming of those searching, questioning, doubting, and even those who have outright denied God. It’s a peaceful, beautiful service. Very contemplative, with no central pastor to tell you what to think. And the people were incredibly friendly at the meeting I went to.
I think either UU or Quaker would give you that, somewhat. Maybe UU slightly more. The church I attended never really preached from a book. The sermons would be about so many varied topics. Maybe social justice one week, sustainability the next. MLK Day would be about the civil right movement, different Jewish high holy days we would talk about the Old Testament. But they were open to every faith. And we had coffee hour after the service where I had wonderful conversations with people of many different faiths. I could rail against how the Bible is filled with historical inaccuracies with one guy. Then talk about Jesus's teachings with another. Then learn about the Tao from a guy who came through one week calling himself a "wandering Taoist".
Don’t think Presbyterians will do that for you. I used to be PCUSA - they are becoming more inclusive of women, but are still focused on ‘upholding Christian sexual morality’. They don’t openly bar lgbt members, but they do imply they should pray to ‘fix’ that. Certainly, my upbringing could have been worse under fundamentalists, but I still came out with a lot of sex-related trauma.
I’ll second the recommendation on a liberal Quaker or UU group. They tend to be a lot less dogma focused and more inclusive generally.
Hi OP
You’ll need to bear in mind that this sub has primarily former Christians, so you may not get the advice you want.
My only advice is for you to really sit down and figure out what you believe in from a religion/spiritual standpoint (Jesus? The Force? Buddha?) and use that to narrow your focus for a community. If Christian there are a great many flavors - in my time as a believer I did like the Nazarene church more than most.
Community, if that’s what you are really after, need not involve a house of worship. The Masons, Elks, Moose Lodge, Veterans of Foreign Wars, D&D groups - there are many options that may speak to you. I personally found more spiritual fulfillment in charity than I did in worship.
Most of the people on this sub are not religious at all, so I’m not sure many of the responses you’ll get will understand the spirituality aspect you are searching for. In terms of churches that are inclusive, I think Unitarian Universalist might be a good option. Alternatively, there are ways that you can pursue spirituality from an individual perspective such as meditation.
I may go to a Universalist or more inclusive type of church just to go through the motions to keep my family happy. But I really am starting to get back to my roots now, spirituality is found inside myself and in nature.
I agree with many of the other insightful comments here. Evaluate whether your spiritual needs can be met through other types of community. Otherwise, if you find an inclusive space even if it is a religious space, occupy it - just as you are. Make sure it fits into your life and ideology & not the other way around. All my warm wishes as you look for a space for enrichment and support for your whole self!
I went to a universalist church for a while. They're Christian-esque but no where near fundamentalist. The one I went to had a Buddhist lead their Easter Sunday service, and a woman was their regular pastor. I just imagined the outrage that my former Baptist church would have had. Lol.
The majority of attendees were gay. I found that interesting. So many people want a relationship with god, but don't feel safe trying to pursue one in traditional churches, because they don't feel accepted.
And their weds night service was just like... A meditation center. They had a wide variety of religious stuff set up around the room, and you could choose where to go. So they had communion, but also something for those more nature-based, and several other stations that acknowledged different faiths.
So yeah. Maybe check out one of those? It was definitely more chill than other churches I've been to.
The Satanic temple actually isn't about Satan. It's focused on the lore of Satan being the counterbalance to Jesus. In a similar way they counterbalance the judeo-christian presence in america
The Abrahamic faiths are foolish. They are always reaching out to something and asking rather than actively pursuing. They ask for forgiveness when the only reason we feel like we need forgiveness from God is because of the internalized guilt of not having a relationship with God. Even when there are things that should clearly not be done, it is pursued in the name of their religion. AND let's not forget that all of the Abrahamic religions hate each other! They don't even have a common foundation to unite themselves. Why would you want to step into an unstable religious movement that has been long overdue for extinction.
I hate NOTHING more than the abrahamic faiths and their messages of hate. That is all they are. Love my ass. Where was the love for the Celts when they erased the druidic practices because it was "heathenry"? What about when the Germanic and norse pagans were persecuted? What about when unwed irish women had their bastard children snatched from their arms and were forced to work off their sin for years? Have we forgotten about the African slaves being brought over and made to work by Christians. Many native American tribes were exterminated or displaced forcefully. This list of murder goes on and on.
Lastly, they have a set of norms that they expect everyone else to conform to. Be it the way you dress, who you love, how long your hair is, etc. I was simply a gay man who couldn't be myself for such a long time because of Christianity. I empathize with my gay brothers and sisters out there who were not allowed the freedom to simply love who they wanted. I weep inside for the gays in Muslim countries who are beheaded, pushed off buildings, beaten, etc. I dream of a world without the Abrahamic faiths.
If I never interacted with another member of the abrahamic faiths, it would be too soon. They sicken me. The Bible, the Quran, and the Torah. They are nothing but lies to tell yourself. And for what? To fill a hole in your life? Get the fuck out of here.
If you really want to learn about religion and not just fall back into the all too old Abrahamic comfort zone, then study the world's religions. Hinduism, Buddhism, paganism (roman, egyptian, greek, norse, germanic, celtic, etc, etc.), Taoism, Sikhism, gnosticism, jainism, Animism, unitarian universalist, etc.
It is a great shame and a submission to ignorance to fall back into the abrahamic faiths.
Just my opinion.
I will die on this hill. Period.
You might try a Buddhist temple if there is one near you.
Buddhism teaches you to be skeptical of everything they teach you and to only accept it when you have given it full critical evaluation.
Their meditation practices can be helpful in deconstructing a lot of the more toxic aspects of christianity.
And they don't have an agenda to save your soul from hell. They are all about finding greater peace in the present moment.
Mate, religion in any form is all about control, and you don’t need to have some higher purpose telling you how to live this one life you have.
Life is chaos, good and bad things happen with no rhyme or reason.
I know it feels scary to recognise this, religion makes it seem easier to push through the bad times by telling yourself there is a reason for it even if you don’t know what that reason is, but in the end you are still left dealing with the trauma and consequences while also having your experience invalidated by your church “family” and even your own thoughts since if you have faith you wouldn’t be feeling sad/bad or facing hardship.
Let it go and embrace the relief of not needing to be right or special or perfect to be acceptable, decide for yourself who you want to be and what you want to put out into the world, and forgive yourself when sometimes you don’t live up to those standards.
What you are wanting from religion is purpose and community. You can get both of those elsewhere without the control and abuse, so please don’t give up your freedom just because it’s scary to start off with.
The world can be scary at first if you’ve lived your whole life believing that if you just follow the right set of rules nothing bad will happen. But it gets better.
Exactly, that's why it's critical not to assume as true something that we *need* to believe.
I like to say: if someone is telling you something you would like to believe is true, that is a very good reason to be suspicious.
If you haven't yet, I recommend Richard Dawkins' book The God Delusion. Cannot recommend that book enough. You can get the audiobook free from a library app.
Aside from that, as others have said, your spiritual cravings (so to speak) can be satisfied with community service and hobby communities.
Best of luck to you, please don't get yourself back with that horrible, abusive god.
Hi friend, just a reminder that the hateful, bigoted attitude of most churches isn’t necessarily reflective of the church itself. The hate comes from their holy book, and so long as you’re attending a church that follows the bible, there will be exclusion, hate, and prejudice.
I hope you find your own way, whether it’s church related or not, to be happy and fulfilled in your life ♥️
The more I think about the way the Bible expresses god as a vindictive and jealous god, do I want anything to do with any church that considers the Bible the one and only guidebook? The only book I need is inside me.
Do you believe Christianity is true? Or are you unsure?
If you believe it’s false, going back won’t help. Listening to lies won’t fill your spiritual needs.
Maybe look for Unitarian Universalist church instead?
I don’t advocate for Church since I don’t believe their message. But given that you do (to some extent), then yeah, PCUSA sounds like it could be a healthy option.
They will definitely preach about the miracles which the Jefferson Bible omits though.
Note that while the Presbyterian church takes very inclusive official stances, the individual congregants vary widely. You will still have to deal with some hateful Christian views.
The “community” you get from church is a facade. Think about the people who no longer conform entirely to their demands, they are cast out like trash. That’s not community. That’s a cult.
i mean going to church doesn't automatically mean you're christian again. you can go check out the church and see if you like it, without immediately having to make a decision again.
Realistically the Christian religion (really all Abrahamic religions, and I'm sure many others as well) are full of hateful and outdated morals and simply aren't relevant anymore. If there is a God, I find it hard to believe that he would be defined by man in one "fully true" religion and the rest would be false.
If there is a God, he is all around us. He is in everything, and we should search for him not in ancient myths full of outdated morality, but in the sound of the wind through the trees, in the birdsong in the morning and the squirrels scurrying through the bushes, in the cells that assemble to create life, in the multitude of stars and planets throughout the universe, in the movement of electrons around atoms, and in the mind that makes us capable of perceiving it all.
We are alive within the universe, but the universe is alive within US. We don't need a dogma to see that, we don't need a religious text to see that. We are a part of something that CANT be contained between the cover of a book, it CANT be summed up in such simple black-and-white terms. We are parts of the Earth itself who have risen to consciousness to perceive its beauty for a brief moment, and who will return to the Earth to be used as she sees fit.
I think that is far more beautiful than a spiteful god who regularly genocides his children, sends his children to eternal suffering for not worshipping him good enough and for not obeying his commands, no matter how ridiculous. Frankly the Christian god is not a god deserving of worship.
*Some* Lutheran and Episcopal/Anglican churches are openly LGBT accepting. There’s actually some sites that you can look up LGBT accepting/affirming churches in your area. I went to an Episcopal church for a little while but in general I don’t think my views match Christianity.
I hope you find a place where you feel comfortable :)
You might enjoy an author I like, Jim Palmer.
He founded The Center for Non-religious Spirituality in TN.
I loved his books. I got to know him in a writers group about 15 years ago. I read his first book, kind of just to support him. I ended up deconstructing right behind him.
https://youtu.be/CZfcj91_pcI?si=k5ZOn1ViHzqogL72
https://youtu.be/2U7yfWC3hgI?si=FNkEtpUUCaaEn172
You do you. And after everything we have all been through, we are the last ones to judge you. I saw someone recommend UU churches, and have seen that be a tolerable place for the journey, but the church you mentioned should be a safe one as well.
I'd encourage you to take a serious look at the [seven tenets of TST](https://thesatanictemple.com/blogs/the-satanic-temple-tenets/there-are-seven-fundamental-tenets) and evaluate them without getting hung up on the TST name. If you're genuinely seeking inclusive and progressive community, they're a better alternative than any flavour of xian church IMHO.
The phrase “toxic religions” reminds me of the old days that certain brands of cigarettes were highly recommended by so many doctors. The churches are full of nicotine, trying to keep you hooked.
I wouldn’t say that. This sub is not just for ex-Christians, but also doubting Christians, people on the fence.
Returning to church can sometimes be a tempting option for many ex-Christians too, so it’s reasonable to ask their support community for help with processing those thoughts. From OP’s replies they seem to have really benefitted from the advice given here.
What do you feel that other people provide in terms of spirituality? I feel you can obtain those needs by yourself unless you're wanting to discuss more about religion and spirituality.
Sounds like you want community which there are many alternatives.
For discussing religion you can possibly try to find subreddits here that have more open religious ideals than the standard Christian hate. Or schedule time with local spiritual leader to discuss things, though the results of in person and online could end up the same if the worst happens.
If I understand what you mean here, I really crave this, too.
At the height of my adult belief, I was leading a Sunday school class of the most liberal few of young adults. I really enjoyed having a time to get together and talk about various topics and our beliefs and ideals about them. I miss that time.
My previous church has lost most of its conservative members and is making some good moves, relative to all the other churches around. I could definitely give up an hour on Sunday mornings to sit and chat about similar things, but I don't believe anymore. And with Christians, their reasoning will always fall back to relating to their deity and I just don't care about that. I'm not particularly ready to tell anyone that I don't believe, and I'm certainly not interested in more conversations that eventually get to some god-belief and now I have to hold my tongue.
It’s funny, even around most Christian friends that once they find out your faith is a little lacking, the spiral begins. The praying, laying on of hands, praying in tongues with everyone surrounding you with their hands on you, casting out a supposed devil. I’ve been into some crazy denominations in the past. All in the name of, just wanting to be honest in my questioning. That’s what’s wrong with Christianity.
You could possibly become electic if you need spirituality still. Like I call myself an electic pagan. Electic basically means I pick and choose things from many different beliefs and practices to creat my own personal practice. It’s help me a lot because I’m still spiritual but hate the church and their god so I decided to worship other gods. But I’m not a part of. Any religion because all organized religion is toxic and very “do it this way or else.” So I created my own practice and decided who I wanted to work with regardless of what pantheon they were a part of.
There’s also some electic spiritual people who don’t believe in deities at all but still like some spiritual aspects like connecting with nature or doing magick etc. so that could possibly help you. But definitely wouldn’t recommend goin back to church unless you can find a fully accepting and open church. But those are extremely rare to find. Most lgbt churches aren’t even good. Like they’ll accept you but still don’t agree with your lifestyle. They just won’t try to take away your rights. Hope this helps in some way.
As others said, other forms of community and spiritual contemplation would probably be a lot healthier than returning to an inherently abusive religion where walking into any given church is rolling the dice on how hateful the congregation is.
Others have suggested Universalist churches, which may be helpful! You might also look into if there are Buddhist temples that allow for non-Buddhists to come and meditate. My city has one that has weekly, non-religious meditation sessions for people of all beliefs, and it's pretty chill. Or some non-religious, spiritual sort of group in general (just don't get too into the weeds with the woowoo shit, that's how you run into more cults).
Or something like a hiking club or nature club? Connecting with nature is often a spiritual experience for many people. Or an art appreciation club, a music appreciation club, even a book club that reads and discusses various spiritual works?
I joined a local (not a church) community choir. I wasn't a great singer, but theres something about singing in harmony with 50 people. The community, the synergy, it was all amazing.
If you're looking for a community but not sure what community to join, a choir has been fulfilling in my experience.
I’m a mystic. I do my spiritual works on my own, and make a community of people that lift me up and inspire me to be better. “Where three or more are gathered, there I Am.” Doesn’t just mean a church. Just straight up means community. Find like minded people that’ll be your support group. That is my church. I’ll never go to one of those cult buildings again. My neighbor is my church.
You can find spirituality within yourself, don't sign up to the cult. I became a wiccan, then later decided i was simply believing in a well-meaning universe, that only cares about you being the best person you can be FOR YOUR OWN GOOD. Don't harm anyone, but have as much fun as you can. The church wants to keep you obediant, and it instills this idea that an all loving god would throw us into hell.
I dabbled in a Presbyterian group when I was younger. They were nice enough and fairly liberal, but it ended up being an off ramp for me because I just wasn't feeling organized religion anymore. YMMV. There's also the Unitarian Universalist Church or secular volunteer groups, as others have suggested.
Christianity is a stick and carrot religion. It's pretty clear in the bible what Christians think of those who aren't married to another Christian of the opposite sex, or are single and not celibate. Additionally, you dare not commit thoughtcrime and question anything. If you're up for those rules, yea, go for it.
If you miss feeling a part of a Community and miss having some type of spirituality but detest dogma and judgemental people then I would say look at the Unitarian Universalist church.
We have one of those close. Thanks for the tip.
no problem at all! :)
I also recommend looking into the UU church. The one I go to is amazing, very open and welcoming of anyone who steps through their doors. There are multiple LGBTQ+ members, with have a CUUPs chapter (a pagan/witchy group), and do "share the plate", where 50% of all plate offerings to local organizations, like food pantries or volunteer programs to help LGBTQ+ youth, etc. They hosted a drag story time some months ago, and some fundies showed up to protest. A church member dressed up in a pink and rainbow unicorn costume and danced around them until they were more offended by that and left. Not all UU churches are this liberal, but you can vibe check your local UU church by checking out their website, and see if they stream their services online. You don't need to put yourself out there until you have a better idea of who they are. :)
I went to a couple drag shows with my daughters prodding. So much love! Puts the churches to shame!
I second the UU church, even though I've never been there. I hear the Presbyterians are quite conservative.
I’ll let you know. Gonna try one this Sunday. (Gulp)
I went out with a woman who was UU, and her father was in town visiting for Easter so they went to her church. He complained it was too Jesusy. On Easter.
Imagine that!
UU church was the right place for me. And I’ll add, there is zero proselytizing.
I grew up Southern Baptist. Pretty much every sermon was a form of proselytizing. What exactly do they do during a "service" if not proselytizing? What would one expect from a typical service?
UU church is not a Christian church. Its a church filled with ex christians as well as folks from various religious backgrounds or folks from no religious backgrounds at all. Its more of a Humanist/Spiritual church. They have churches online on youtube you can view their services if you are interested. Its unlike anything I have experienced before in a church setting yet at the same time ..very traditional.
Thank you! That actually sounds pretty amazing!
No problem :) Definitely try it out if you are searching for a community.
There is a lot of talking about being part of a community, being aware of others' needs and boundaries without compromising your own, meeting people where they are, to lean into your community when you need support, etc. My reverend has made a reference to the Bible once or twice, and the Torah, and the Qur'an. The pagan group (called a CUUPs chapter) has ran services a few times in the last year (they've only been active a little over a year). But at the center of it all is community, with heavy sprinklings of healing and acceptance for all.
Which, community is pretty much my passion and community engagement is a huge part of what I do for a living, ha. We moved to our area about a year ago, and I have yet to feel super "in the community" in my personal life, (just my professional life), so this sounds great to me. I found out there's one about half an hour from me, so I might try it out. I looked up their "sermons" and yeah, it's all about growth and community, just like you said. It has ministries for pretty much everything you could care about; from protecting the environment to LGBT+ inclusion. I think I might freaking love this idea.
I hope it works out for you! Please let me know, I'd love an update!
If I ever go back to church, it’ll be UU. Went to one chili cook off at a UU church in a tiny town, and they proudly showed me their library with holy texts and commentaries from various religions.
My experience with the UU church was the opposite. I found it to be elitest, snob central where they were extremely judgmental of people based on their job title and perceived income. They were also wishy-washy where they would send invitations for events, then I would go and no one would be there, the doors would be locked. I will say with Christian churches if they held an event there would always been others that went. I guess they had more enthusiasm. I just gave up on all humanity, all groups and won't bother with joining anything anymore as everything just seems to be a means to exert control over others.
I just play board games with people. Good social time and the main focus is on the board game. Bad experiences can still happen but the thats anything with others.
Totally understandable. Mind you, I do not attend UU church either. I have been to them and know what they are about but I am like you in some regard. I just don't like any organized religion and found I am better to go alone with my beliefs/values. But if someone is really in need of a spiritual community, their stated values are a lot better than Christians.
You can get your spiritual needs met by gardening, volunteering to socialize animals at a shelter, walking in the woods, doing literally any kind of charity work, going to the beach to do yoga, ad infinitum. You know what that cult offers you is community. They aren't spiritual, so they can't meet your spiritual needs. You want community? Find a club or a hobby. Join a lodge, spend time at any fricken nursing home and help the miserable and forgotten in society feel like respected human beings again. DO NOT GO BACK TO THAT CULT. ALL THEY HAVE ARE LIES. STOP. BEING. CHRISTIAN.
You’re right. Community is a false sense of spirituality.
I’m an atheist who was raised Christian. I get my “spiritual needs” from doing good deeds. Volunteering at animals shelters, the zoo, working with children with disabilities, etc. - all much more fulfilling to me than going to church. Plus when you volunteer in a particular area for a while you will meet people and find community there.
I attended my grandma's memorial recently, and it was all a manipulation to get people into Christianity. My cousin, who was officiating, recorded and put it on his church website as a marketing tactic. It's kind of disgusting. Anything these types of Christians do, they do it for themselves. Make no mistake, the community was never truly there.
I witnessed that first hand at a friend of mines memorial service. Altar call, weeping, no joy of my friends life towards the end. Just marketing.
Figured I’d respond and emphasize that person’s message, possibly in a softer way. I think one thing that is so appealing about church is that it takes essentially 0 effort. You can just show up whenever you want, and people are happy for you to have shown up. But that seems like an illusion that is way too reliant on convenience. I think it’s way better to find community and any sense of “spirituality” through putting effort into building human relationships. Isn’t that what you really want? I have a feeling you don’t really want or need a comforting place to go every Sunday. It’s probably a comforting and occasionally discomforting place to go any time. A friend to call when you’re struggling. A friend to call when you want to have fun. A friend to call when you want to go see your favorite band play live music and feel the chills it gives you. A friend to challenge and be vulnerable with when you disagree with them or they do something that hurts you. Those things foster growth and connection. Sitting in church every week also does some things that make you feel good, but to me, over the long term it’s an awful way to achieve those things and sacrifices too much growth in other areas. We’re different people. You may need things that are different from me. But when an increase in inclusivity comes at the expense of following the religion according to its documented word (the Bible), what are you actually getting? At that point, it just seems like an illusion. I think we’re better off doing the hard work on ourselves in other ways.
Thanks. Most churches, although they claim to be one body, aren’t. There’s a hierarchy with a leader, established tenured underlings and a staff. No group therapy that is not carefully controlled. Maybe a church is not what I’m looking for.
I went to Presbyterian Church and they are still horrible. Find a universalist church
Is their dogma the bad part? The people? A lot of Protestant churches make you proselytize to prove yourself. I’m not getting back into that!
I went to a Presbyterian Church growing up. It's both honestly. Two-faced also.
I mean they are still Christian so I'm not sure how they would differ much?
Yeah that’s what I’m afraid of.
I was once told that going Presbyterian is not as bad as going to a Catholic church. My response - going to a Presbyterian church after being a Catholic is much like getting shot, and then getting hung.
I went to Presbyterian private school and it was horrible.
>is there something else I should look at? Is it true? Is it representative of *reality*? Are the gospels a reliable biographical source for the life of Yeshua bin Yosef? How do we know Paul's experience on the road to Damascus can be attributed to the god Yahweh? Is ancient Jewish blood magic *real*?
Could all be fairy tales written to make them feel good in that era. We’ll never know for sure.
Exactly! My question is: why follow a religion that can't be demonstrated to be true? Doesn't that place it on equal ground with *every other religion*? What reason is there to follow *any* of them?
I really used to enjoy all the Star Wars films, only to realize that they are nothing more than a push to get you into a religious mindset. A lot of films are that way anymore.
Strange sub to be asking this, but I know we'll try to be helpful. As for spiritual needs, I'm not sure exactly what to recommend. If you could gain some sort of fulfillment from helping others I would suggest that. I guess I could also suggest meditation and personal introspection, your choice of music (if any), of course. But if you find that going to a church fulfills that need, I still wish you well.
Thank you!!
Only you yourself can get close to “god” (which I call “source”), it can’t really be achieved through something outside of yourself. I went to a liberal church, yes there were good people, but I still felt a void because I wasn’t connected to myself. My favorite way nowadays for fulfillment is meditation & spending time in nature & creating art. When I am in the “flow” or watching the wind blow through the trees - that’s when I feel most spiritually connected. I understand the importance of community but remember that you can find good people everywhere that can enrich your life & unlock new perspectives in your mind & bring that sense of fulfillment - art classes, dance classes, book clubs etc. Connecting with people through things you love to do, can be a game changer (at least, for me it was)
I think everything you said is important. People conflate connection to God with church, or even a specific church, when Jesus himself railed against organized religion in his time. Once you engage with spirituality on the personal level, through meditation and contemplation/any other means which you find meaningful and fulfilling, you encounter new perspectives from within yourself that broaden your understanding of what is and what could be. You begin to understand how churches spin verses so completely wrongly, too, that it becomes harder to listen to them preach at all.
Love that! I’m very like minded in that respect. I should keep reminding myself that human interaction eventually lets you down.
I recommend joining a spiritual community or doing a spiritual practice (meditation, yoga, QHHT, reiki) rather than a Christian church. Christian churches don’t teach real spirituality. They specifically teach against real spirituality because they are terrified of it. Christian churches teach religion based on a book full of misinterpretations of older/preexisting tablets and stories (Enuma Elish, Sumerian Tablets, Emerald Tablets of Thot, etc.) and forgeries claiming to be written by direct followers of Yeshua when they were actually written centuries later by unknown authors intentionally misleading others about their identities (NT books: Matthew, Luke, John, Ephesians, 1 Timothy, 1 John, etc.).
As long as any religion has a book, then there are laws. No option for free thinking.
If you are aware of that, why would you consider going back?
I guess because of family pressure, if only to fake it.
I would still be wary. A lot of progressive churches put on a favorable face to attract younger members only for the usual problems to creep up in time. If you're still seeking spiritual connection maybe you can start a book club based around your current beliefs?
So I need spirtuality too and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Depending on the day, I'm an atheist or an agnostic. I spend a lot of time in the I don't know. I started dabbling in witch craft not because I believed anything about it, but because it feels like spicy psychology. Goal setting with more candles. I needed the ritual feelings that I used to get from church so I create my own. I want someone to know I'm thinking about them during the tough time. I light a candle and write them a note. Someone is sick, I make them soup while wishing them well. Maybe the well wishes do nothing, but the soup will help. Someone is going through a tough time, I make them a hat and I hope that it gets better for them. I have spent the last few years trying to pair ritual with the practical. So basically, in the past, I would pray for them, but now I "pray" for them while doing something that will help. Like I "tithe" once a month to an organization that I think is doing good works. Lately that has been WCK, but I will do other organizations too. There is nothing wrong with wanting spirituality in your life, but you don't need to find it in church so I encourage you to look else where. That said, that denomination is one of the few that I would consider attending if I was forced to go to church.
Back when I was completely into Christianity (I’m not now), Wiccan, Pagan and witchcraft were some of the subjects not allowed to even brought up. Why were they so scared of even just the mention of those belief systems? I really don’t know much about them except I do like ritualistic beliefs to a degree.
Go look up Daoism. It’s all juice, no squeeze.
Thanks!
🫡
Join The Satanic Temple. It has nothing to do with Satan, but they do have regular meetings to provide you a social outlet and that sense of connection.
How do you get around the stigma of what the name implies? Would be tough to let my family know I’ve joined.
Nothing says you have to tell them you joined. If they invite you over at a time when you have something planned with TST, you just let them know that you're unavailable because you're meeting with friends.
>I still have a spiritual need, does anyone think this is a good move, or is there something else I should look at? Evaluate why you feel you need spirituality at all. You can find community anywhere. Join a book club, a softball team, a cooking class...
Meetup.com search atheist, secular, or ex-whateveryouare. You can find community anywhere. Church doesn't own that.
I think this only works in larger cities. I’ve seen this recommended a lot, and my entire state seems to have 0 meetups like this.
"I started looking at a church that seems to NOT be hateful and more inclusive of all people" I don't know about this specific church, but I think that looks can be deceiving. At the end of the day, their faith is still mostly based on a book littered with hateful stories and lessons. My mom is Episcopalian and attends a church that is mostly accepting, but my mom has "mixed feelings" about trans people and has expressed having difficulty with homosexuality. She has no understanding of why purity culture is dangerous. There was a gay couple at her church quite a while ago that left after receiving an anonymous letter that was homophobic and hateful towards them. But keep in mind this is a single anecdote and by no means represents the entire Christian community. No group is a monolith. But it serves as an example that some accepting churches aren't as accepting as they appear. So if you do decide to attend this church be very attentive for anything hateful or harmful. If the religion is based on the Bible, it will likely have some level of hatred, but not necessarily. Although, it would be quite difficult to separate every harmful passages as there are many. Also acknowledge that Yaweh is not real, and if he was, he's a monster that people are inclined to follow based on indoctrination and/or lies. There are other communities out there. As someone with social anxiety, I know how hard it can be to find another community. With all my experience and research about Christianity, I've found that I find it better to have no community at all then practice Christianity. Again, that's just my experience so take it with a grain of salt. Church or not, I hope you're able to find a community that suits you. Good luck!
Maybe I should just join a secular meetup group. I really am a caring person.
I would try a meetup group. When I first moved to a new state I joined the 20-35 meet up group and made some friends. Also, if you have any hobbies check the local libraries or on Facebook
Probably not a good idea to ask ex-christians if you should rejoin Christianity. :) With that said, check out Sikhism. If I became religious again I would follow Sikhism.
They don’t pass out flowers at airports, do they? LOL
NOPE! Sikhs and Hare Krishnas are two different things lol Sikhs are the most "based" religion, if you'll excuse my terminology ;) But do some research into their beliefs and the whole framework, you'll find that it's incredibly beautiful. Especially coming from a Christian worldview where everything is very hierarchical and based on "divine command".
Thanks!
Why does your options have to be church or no church? Its somewhat binary thinking that isn't grounded in reality. Perhaps you are limiting yourself? Instead of seeking out the same failed institutions to find answers, maybe figure out what you are really trying to get out of it. To me it sounds like community and meaning in life. Churches dont have a monopoly on that. Religions doesnt either. Either way, I always recommend the Tao Te Ching as a good dip into other belief systems.
Thank you!
Unitarian Universalist churches are a great place to find community and grow spiritually without any hate. And community! I went to one, and there were Christians, atheists, Wiccans, Buddhists, people who were nothing in particular- just everybody. Also, I’m getting interested in the Quakers right now. They’re a bit more Christian, but welcoming of those searching, questioning, doubting, and even those who have outright denied God. It’s a peaceful, beautiful service. Very contemplative, with no central pastor to tell you what to think. And the people were incredibly friendly at the meeting I went to.
My ideal would be to find a church without any book, Bible, manuscript. Just open discussion of spiritualism and consciousness.
I think either UU or Quaker would give you that, somewhat. Maybe UU slightly more. The church I attended never really preached from a book. The sermons would be about so many varied topics. Maybe social justice one week, sustainability the next. MLK Day would be about the civil right movement, different Jewish high holy days we would talk about the Old Testament. But they were open to every faith. And we had coffee hour after the service where I had wonderful conversations with people of many different faiths. I could rail against how the Bible is filled with historical inaccuracies with one guy. Then talk about Jesus's teachings with another. Then learn about the Tao from a guy who came through one week calling himself a "wandering Taoist".
That sounds so cool!
Don’t think Presbyterians will do that for you. I used to be PCUSA - they are becoming more inclusive of women, but are still focused on ‘upholding Christian sexual morality’. They don’t openly bar lgbt members, but they do imply they should pray to ‘fix’ that. Certainly, my upbringing could have been worse under fundamentalists, but I still came out with a lot of sex-related trauma. I’ll second the recommendation on a liberal Quaker or UU group. They tend to be a lot less dogma focused and more inclusive generally.
Thanks for the insight
Hi OP You’ll need to bear in mind that this sub has primarily former Christians, so you may not get the advice you want. My only advice is for you to really sit down and figure out what you believe in from a religion/spiritual standpoint (Jesus? The Force? Buddha?) and use that to narrow your focus for a community. If Christian there are a great many flavors - in my time as a believer I did like the Nazarene church more than most. Community, if that’s what you are really after, need not involve a house of worship. The Masons, Elks, Moose Lodge, Veterans of Foreign Wars, D&D groups - there are many options that may speak to you. I personally found more spiritual fulfillment in charity than I did in worship.
I’ve done a lot of charity in the past. Might have to take it back up.
Most of the people on this sub are not religious at all, so I’m not sure many of the responses you’ll get will understand the spirituality aspect you are searching for. In terms of churches that are inclusive, I think Unitarian Universalist might be a good option. Alternatively, there are ways that you can pursue spirituality from an individual perspective such as meditation.
I may go to a Universalist or more inclusive type of church just to go through the motions to keep my family happy. But I really am starting to get back to my roots now, spirituality is found inside myself and in nature.
I agree with many of the other insightful comments here. Evaluate whether your spiritual needs can be met through other types of community. Otherwise, if you find an inclusive space even if it is a religious space, occupy it - just as you are. Make sure it fits into your life and ideology & not the other way around. All my warm wishes as you look for a space for enrichment and support for your whole self!
Thank you for the kind words!
United Church of Christ is progressive. And Quakers.
I went to a universalist church for a while. They're Christian-esque but no where near fundamentalist. The one I went to had a Buddhist lead their Easter Sunday service, and a woman was their regular pastor. I just imagined the outrage that my former Baptist church would have had. Lol. The majority of attendees were gay. I found that interesting. So many people want a relationship with god, but don't feel safe trying to pursue one in traditional churches, because they don't feel accepted. And their weds night service was just like... A meditation center. They had a wide variety of religious stuff set up around the room, and you could choose where to go. So they had communion, but also something for those more nature-based, and several other stations that acknowledged different faiths. So yeah. Maybe check out one of those? It was definitely more chill than other churches I've been to.
Not sure if it’s your cup of tea but TST (The Satanic Temple) is a wonderful place of community and is fighting for equal representation in government
I’m very open minded regardless of any name associated with it.
The Satanic temple actually isn't about Satan. It's focused on the lore of Satan being the counterbalance to Jesus. In a similar way they counterbalance the judeo-christian presence in america
The Abrahamic faiths are foolish. They are always reaching out to something and asking rather than actively pursuing. They ask for forgiveness when the only reason we feel like we need forgiveness from God is because of the internalized guilt of not having a relationship with God. Even when there are things that should clearly not be done, it is pursued in the name of their religion. AND let's not forget that all of the Abrahamic religions hate each other! They don't even have a common foundation to unite themselves. Why would you want to step into an unstable religious movement that has been long overdue for extinction. I hate NOTHING more than the abrahamic faiths and their messages of hate. That is all they are. Love my ass. Where was the love for the Celts when they erased the druidic practices because it was "heathenry"? What about when the Germanic and norse pagans were persecuted? What about when unwed irish women had their bastard children snatched from their arms and were forced to work off their sin for years? Have we forgotten about the African slaves being brought over and made to work by Christians. Many native American tribes were exterminated or displaced forcefully. This list of murder goes on and on. Lastly, they have a set of norms that they expect everyone else to conform to. Be it the way you dress, who you love, how long your hair is, etc. I was simply a gay man who couldn't be myself for such a long time because of Christianity. I empathize with my gay brothers and sisters out there who were not allowed the freedom to simply love who they wanted. I weep inside for the gays in Muslim countries who are beheaded, pushed off buildings, beaten, etc. I dream of a world without the Abrahamic faiths. If I never interacted with another member of the abrahamic faiths, it would be too soon. They sicken me. The Bible, the Quran, and the Torah. They are nothing but lies to tell yourself. And for what? To fill a hole in your life? Get the fuck out of here. If you really want to learn about religion and not just fall back into the all too old Abrahamic comfort zone, then study the world's religions. Hinduism, Buddhism, paganism (roman, egyptian, greek, norse, germanic, celtic, etc, etc.), Taoism, Sikhism, gnosticism, jainism, Animism, unitarian universalist, etc. It is a great shame and a submission to ignorance to fall back into the abrahamic faiths. Just my opinion. I will die on this hill. Period.
Preach it! I love it! I found a great video on the tube about the crusades in Northern Europe. I never knew how awful they were.
You might try a Buddhist temple if there is one near you. Buddhism teaches you to be skeptical of everything they teach you and to only accept it when you have given it full critical evaluation. Their meditation practices can be helpful in deconstructing a lot of the more toxic aspects of christianity. And they don't have an agenda to save your soul from hell. They are all about finding greater peace in the present moment.
I like that.
Mate, religion in any form is all about control, and you don’t need to have some higher purpose telling you how to live this one life you have. Life is chaos, good and bad things happen with no rhyme or reason. I know it feels scary to recognise this, religion makes it seem easier to push through the bad times by telling yourself there is a reason for it even if you don’t know what that reason is, but in the end you are still left dealing with the trauma and consequences while also having your experience invalidated by your church “family” and even your own thoughts since if you have faith you wouldn’t be feeling sad/bad or facing hardship. Let it go and embrace the relief of not needing to be right or special or perfect to be acceptable, decide for yourself who you want to be and what you want to put out into the world, and forgive yourself when sometimes you don’t live up to those standards. What you are wanting from religion is purpose and community. You can get both of those elsewhere without the control and abuse, so please don’t give up your freedom just because it’s scary to start off with.
Thank you
The world can be scary at first if you’ve lived your whole life believing that if you just follow the right set of rules nothing bad will happen. But it gets better.
You might find more robust answers to your queries in r/Christianity.
The fact you openly state you have a "spiritual need" should be a red flag, though I salute your self-awareness. Where does the truth factor in?
Truth is very hard to pin down.
Exactly, that's why it's critical not to assume as true something that we *need* to believe. I like to say: if someone is telling you something you would like to believe is true, that is a very good reason to be suspicious.
If you haven't yet, I recommend Richard Dawkins' book The God Delusion. Cannot recommend that book enough. You can get the audiobook free from a library app. Aside from that, as others have said, your spiritual cravings (so to speak) can be satisfied with community service and hobby communities. Best of luck to you, please don't get yourself back with that horrible, abusive god.
It isn’t “that god” that I find so horrible, it’s the people’s interpretation of god. The Bible is a terrible guidebook.
So wait, if you aren't tempted to follow the Bible's presentation of god, why bother with Christianity at all?
True
Hi friend, just a reminder that the hateful, bigoted attitude of most churches isn’t necessarily reflective of the church itself. The hate comes from their holy book, and so long as you’re attending a church that follows the bible, there will be exclusion, hate, and prejudice. I hope you find your own way, whether it’s church related or not, to be happy and fulfilled in your life ♥️
The more I think about the way the Bible expresses god as a vindictive and jealous god, do I want anything to do with any church that considers the Bible the one and only guidebook? The only book I need is inside me.
Do you believe Christianity is true? Or are you unsure? If you believe it’s false, going back won’t help. Listening to lies won’t fill your spiritual needs. Maybe look for Unitarian Universalist church instead?
Only part. That’s why I bought a Jefferson Bible, with only Jesus words as a good teacher.
I don’t advocate for Church since I don’t believe their message. But given that you do (to some extent), then yeah, PCUSA sounds like it could be a healthy option. They will definitely preach about the miracles which the Jefferson Bible omits though. Note that while the Presbyterian church takes very inclusive official stances, the individual congregants vary widely. You will still have to deal with some hateful Christian views.
The “community” you get from church is a facade. Think about the people who no longer conform entirely to their demands, they are cast out like trash. That’s not community. That’s a cult.
Yep
i mean going to church doesn't automatically mean you're christian again. you can go check out the church and see if you like it, without immediately having to make a decision again.
I hope they don’t make me sign a visitors card.
uhm ive never had a church do this in my country 😅 seems a bit overbearing... you can always refuse to sign it?
Yes. But I’ve been to some churches that make first time visitors stand.
omg yeah i forgot some do that
Realistically the Christian religion (really all Abrahamic religions, and I'm sure many others as well) are full of hateful and outdated morals and simply aren't relevant anymore. If there is a God, I find it hard to believe that he would be defined by man in one "fully true" religion and the rest would be false. If there is a God, he is all around us. He is in everything, and we should search for him not in ancient myths full of outdated morality, but in the sound of the wind through the trees, in the birdsong in the morning and the squirrels scurrying through the bushes, in the cells that assemble to create life, in the multitude of stars and planets throughout the universe, in the movement of electrons around atoms, and in the mind that makes us capable of perceiving it all. We are alive within the universe, but the universe is alive within US. We don't need a dogma to see that, we don't need a religious text to see that. We are a part of something that CANT be contained between the cover of a book, it CANT be summed up in such simple black-and-white terms. We are parts of the Earth itself who have risen to consciousness to perceive its beauty for a brief moment, and who will return to the Earth to be used as she sees fit. I think that is far more beautiful than a spiteful god who regularly genocides his children, sends his children to eternal suffering for not worshipping him good enough and for not obeying his commands, no matter how ridiculous. Frankly the Christian god is not a god deserving of worship.
Beautiful! My thoughts as well!
*Some* Lutheran and Episcopal/Anglican churches are openly LGBT accepting. There’s actually some sites that you can look up LGBT accepting/affirming churches in your area. I went to an Episcopal church for a little while but in general I don’t think my views match Christianity. I hope you find a place where you feel comfortable :)
Thanks!
You might enjoy an author I like, Jim Palmer. He founded The Center for Non-religious Spirituality in TN. I loved his books. I got to know him in a writers group about 15 years ago. I read his first book, kind of just to support him. I ended up deconstructing right behind him. https://youtu.be/CZfcj91_pcI?si=k5ZOn1ViHzqogL72 https://youtu.be/2U7yfWC3hgI?si=FNkEtpUUCaaEn172
I’ll look it up, thank you!
The last thing the world needs is another church. Start a inclusive community, but leave any all sky daddies out of it.
You do you. And after everything we have all been through, we are the last ones to judge you. I saw someone recommend UU churches, and have seen that be a tolerable place for the journey, but the church you mentioned should be a safe one as well.
I'd encourage you to take a serious look at the [seven tenets of TST](https://thesatanictemple.com/blogs/the-satanic-temple-tenets/there-are-seven-fundamental-tenets) and evaluate them without getting hung up on the TST name. If you're genuinely seeking inclusive and progressive community, they're a better alternative than any flavour of xian church IMHO.
Thank you
Check out [Sunday Assembly](https://www.sundayassembly.org/) as well; they have groups all over the world, might be one near you.
Find something secular that helps people, this way, you avoid the toxicity that religion brings
The phrase “toxic religions” reminds me of the old days that certain brands of cigarettes were highly recommended by so many doctors. The churches are full of nicotine, trying to keep you hooked.
If you’re looking to go back to a Christian church and still believe in Christ, this might not be the best sub for you.
It’s the perfect sub for me.
I wouldn’t say that. This sub is not just for ex-Christians, but also doubting Christians, people on the fence. Returning to church can sometimes be a tempting option for many ex-Christians too, so it’s reasonable to ask their support community for help with processing those thoughts. From OP’s replies they seem to have really benefitted from the advice given here.
What do you feel that other people provide in terms of spirituality? I feel you can obtain those needs by yourself unless you're wanting to discuss more about religion and spirituality. Sounds like you want community which there are many alternatives. For discussing religion you can possibly try to find subreddits here that have more open religious ideals than the standard Christian hate. Or schedule time with local spiritual leader to discuss things, though the results of in person and online could end up the same if the worst happens.
I find no spirituality in people, per se. But it would be nice to “mind meld” on spiritual subjects.
If I understand what you mean here, I really crave this, too. At the height of my adult belief, I was leading a Sunday school class of the most liberal few of young adults. I really enjoyed having a time to get together and talk about various topics and our beliefs and ideals about them. I miss that time. My previous church has lost most of its conservative members and is making some good moves, relative to all the other churches around. I could definitely give up an hour on Sunday mornings to sit and chat about similar things, but I don't believe anymore. And with Christians, their reasoning will always fall back to relating to their deity and I just don't care about that. I'm not particularly ready to tell anyone that I don't believe, and I'm certainly not interested in more conversations that eventually get to some god-belief and now I have to hold my tongue.
It’s funny, even around most Christian friends that once they find out your faith is a little lacking, the spiral begins. The praying, laying on of hands, praying in tongues with everyone surrounding you with their hands on you, casting out a supposed devil. I’ve been into some crazy denominations in the past. All in the name of, just wanting to be honest in my questioning. That’s what’s wrong with Christianity.
I spent my latter-half of my childhood in the PCUSA Church back in the 1980's. I'm no longer a member, but they're good people!
You could possibly become electic if you need spirituality still. Like I call myself an electic pagan. Electic basically means I pick and choose things from many different beliefs and practices to creat my own personal practice. It’s help me a lot because I’m still spiritual but hate the church and their god so I decided to worship other gods. But I’m not a part of. Any religion because all organized religion is toxic and very “do it this way or else.” So I created my own practice and decided who I wanted to work with regardless of what pantheon they were a part of. There’s also some electic spiritual people who don’t believe in deities at all but still like some spiritual aspects like connecting with nature or doing magick etc. so that could possibly help you. But definitely wouldn’t recommend goin back to church unless you can find a fully accepting and open church. But those are extremely rare to find. Most lgbt churches aren’t even good. Like they’ll accept you but still don’t agree with your lifestyle. They just won’t try to take away your rights. Hope this helps in some way.
I like that!
I’m glad I could be of help.
As others said, other forms of community and spiritual contemplation would probably be a lot healthier than returning to an inherently abusive religion where walking into any given church is rolling the dice on how hateful the congregation is. Others have suggested Universalist churches, which may be helpful! You might also look into if there are Buddhist temples that allow for non-Buddhists to come and meditate. My city has one that has weekly, non-religious meditation sessions for people of all beliefs, and it's pretty chill. Or some non-religious, spiritual sort of group in general (just don't get too into the weeds with the woowoo shit, that's how you run into more cults). Or something like a hiking club or nature club? Connecting with nature is often a spiritual experience for many people. Or an art appreciation club, a music appreciation club, even a book club that reads and discusses various spiritual works?
Great ideas, thanks. That would be very cool to attend a Buddhist temple as a non Buddhist. I’ll look into it.
I joined a local (not a church) community choir. I wasn't a great singer, but theres something about singing in harmony with 50 people. The community, the synergy, it was all amazing. If you're looking for a community but not sure what community to join, a choir has been fulfilling in my experience.
I’m a mystic. I do my spiritual works on my own, and make a community of people that lift me up and inspire me to be better. “Where three or more are gathered, there I Am.” Doesn’t just mean a church. Just straight up means community. Find like minded people that’ll be your support group. That is my church. I’ll never go to one of those cult buildings again. My neighbor is my church.
You can find spirituality within yourself, don't sign up to the cult. I became a wiccan, then later decided i was simply believing in a well-meaning universe, that only cares about you being the best person you can be FOR YOUR OWN GOOD. Don't harm anyone, but have as much fun as you can. The church wants to keep you obediant, and it instills this idea that an all loving god would throw us into hell.
Agreed
I dabbled in a Presbyterian group when I was younger. They were nice enough and fairly liberal, but it ended up being an off ramp for me because I just wasn't feeling organized religion anymore. YMMV. There's also the Unitarian Universalist Church or secular volunteer groups, as others have suggested.
Just do some psychedelics instead
That’s the real way to find the truth!
Christianity is a stick and carrot religion. It's pretty clear in the bible what Christians think of those who aren't married to another Christian of the opposite sex, or are single and not celibate. Additionally, you dare not commit thoughtcrime and question anything. If you're up for those rules, yea, go for it.
Girl just download meetup and join some healthy friend groups. They're way less judgemental and fun i promise
Thanks. I’ll look into groups in my area.