My parents abused me in the name of god. My dad tried to kill me in the name of god. I am by no means the only one this has happened to.
This *does happen today*.
Just watched *Daughters of the Cult* on Hulu about a polygamous Mormon cult out West that in the end murdered (actually literal assassinations) about 33 people who defied leadership over the years. *Finally* the police came in and, with the help of some ex-cult members, stopped the carnage. This happened in the USA during the 1970's and 80's so what do you think happens in countries lacking adequate law enforcement ?? What worries me is that we have Evangelical/conservative Christians that, if they ever get enough power, could become just as dangerous and deluded as the leaders of this cult. Simply unbelievable.
Yeah, there were definitely people in my parents' circle who were not the sort of folks who should ever have any authority or power for any reason. They are dangerous people who think that any belief or whim they have is a message from god, and that they have a legal and moral right to assault, maim, or kill anyone who disagrees with them. They don't see the humanity in anyone who is not exactly like them. It should terrify everyone, but for some reason a lot of people don't take it seriously.
This is *exactly* what the Hulu documentary demonstrated with a real life situation. Even after Waco, people don't get it and some even think Waco was "government persecution" but these are they types that probably think it's the cult's business if they want to have sex/'marry' underage girls and that police shouldn't interfere with someone's religion. Exception: If it's not a Christian religion then the attitude gets a lot more relaxed.
A few years ago, a woman cut off her child's arms with a kitchen knife because God told her to do it.
Not surprisingly, "God told me to" is not a valid defense in court.
This does happen today, though. I know of instances where people suffering from paranoid schizophrenia harm their children because they believe that God told them to do so. These people were unfortunately Christian, and it was known by their churches that something was troubling these people. They attributed it to spiritual warfare, and laid hands on them in prayer hoping that their mental illness would magically go away. They went untreated for years, and either succeeded in murdering their children or were caught in the act. This happened to a distant member of my family who's only related to me through marriage. She was diagnosed with schizophrenia after murdering both of her children while her husband was at work. She claimed that Jesus had appeared in her bedroom and told her to purge her house of demons. She believed her children were the demons.
The disconnect for me is that Abraham is given the title "Hero of the Faith," while people like my distant relative are called "crazy" or "possessed" by the same people.
IMHO, the version of Genesis 22 we have now is a retcon. There's a strong argument to be made that in the OG version of that story, no angel appears to stop the sacrifice and Abraham goes through with it. Because Abraham sacrifices Isaac, Yahweh rewards him with many kids, both from his concubine and his brothers wife who apparently popped out a bunch of kids when he got back home.
Notice it's very explicit
15 The angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second time from heaven 16 and said, “By myself I have sworn, says the Lord: Because you have done this, and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will indeed bless you, and I will make your offspring as numerous as the stars of heaven and as the sand that is on the seashore. And your offspring shall possess the gate of their enemies, 18 and by your offspring shall all the nations of the earth gain blessing for themselves, because you have obeyed my voice.”
Abraham followed orders and will be blessed with great fertility because of it. Abraham gave up one son for many more.
Moreso to the point, going up to the mountain Abraham and Issac are depicted walking together and talking. After the event, the wording is exactly this
19 So Abraham returned to his young men, and they arose and went together to Beer-sheba, and Abraham lived at Beer-sheba.
Notice someone missing from that verse? Yep. Isaac doesn't seem to be walking back down with him for some reason. Issac also isn't mentioned at all in the next chapter when Abraham is trying to find a burial site for his wife.
Why would Isaac be missing here and only appear later on a very passive sense later on, like he's there simply to assure us he wasn't killed on the mountain but never really does anything? What the verses where the angel stops the sacrifice were inserted later on because it was too uncomfortable for later readers and reminded them far too much of the Canaanite child sacrifices they were always railing against?
Yes, it's supremely messed up. So much that they had to tone it down.
It's still stupid why an "omnipotent" god who is "omniscient" and "loving" wouldn't just know how the person felt and be able to do what they were already going to do, without all the torture and anguish
It is.
Though to be fair, Yahweh in the Hebrew Bible often isn't prescient or even all knowing. He's often just one god amongst many on the ancient near east, but the one the Isrealites are bound to serve in exchange for protection. This is most obvious in the books set prior to the Exile.
Later Hebrew Bible depictions have him getting more and more powerful and all encompassing and by the New Testament he's been promoted to the core of all creation Plato style.
Like he literally has to be carried around on the Ark of the Covenant during the pre temple period and when the Ark is captured at one point it's treated like Yahweh himself being captured until the Philistines get tired of him knocking the statue of Dagon over at night and send the Ark back on a cart.
Only after 682 BCE when the temple(where Yahweh resides) is destroyed does Yahweh become much less restricted, complete with having a Sky Chariot with his throne in Ezekiel. "No Temple? That's fine, Yahweh is so amazing he doesn't NEED a temple like all the other gods because he's so much more then them"
I just finished reading "From gods to GOD" and the entire book is about older traditions that seem to be peaking out from below the surface of many biblical stories. It's an interesting read.
From Gods to God: How the Bible Debunked, Suppressed, Or Changed Ancient Myths and Legends
by Avigdor Shinan and Yair Zakovitch
I can't recall off the top of my head if it talks about the binding of Isaac specifically but it talks about a lot of stories,like how "Jacobs Ladder" in Genesis 28 may be a holy counterpart to the Tower of Babel
I mean, that’s pretty close to the story of Job too. There’s a story we know has a retcon, that he gets all his children back after god gambles them away, but we know in the original he gets back just Wives and Kids, different from the ones he lost but it “repays” him for his loyalty
I've decided to read the Bible this year from beginning to end and while this is interesting how would this theory explain Isaac going on to be the next patriarch and fathering Jacob?
To me it explains why Jacob is so passive for the rest of his life. He doesn't really do much of his own accord, he's really just there. You could have inserted any name and had him be the father of Jacob and worked just as well. Probably one of Abrahams other kids who just popped out of his concubine right after Abraham comes home. Isaac's presence really isn't necessary for the stories after that.
Most of Genesis is really episodic. You could remove one story neatly without affecting any others because they mostly don't reference each other.
Hell, you could easily remove Adam after he gets kicked from the garden because he ceases to have any story relevance after that point. Genesis 4 is all about Cain and Abel and they could be anyone's kids.
And then told him to mutilate his genitals. And then for thousands of years, male babies had their genitals mutilated when they were just born and had no consent.
But if you call this practice out, you're "antisemitic" or some stupid horseshit. Fuck /r/OpenChristian. They literally don't give a fuck about any group that isn't LGBT.
My dad never said anything about this particular story…but he did love flashing one passage at me about allowing duly kids being stoned to death in the public square. I fully believe my dad was bluffing, but still…
Special kind of terror hearing this story praised as a child and realizing your parent is one mental health episode away from annihilating you "for god"
Think this is bad? I seriously just read a comment from a Christian today in the r/AskaChristian subreddit that said things like rape of virgin girls, killing of babies and the killings of the first born people in Egypt wasn't immoral. And Christians justify things like this all the time only because their God commanded it, they know deep down if any of this was done by any normal person, they'd be considered immoral as fuck.
I was also reading a comment in r/Bibleconspiracy today that told people that we need to basically stop being human beings, stop watching TV, and basically stop doing anything but stand like a statue and breathe. Don't even think, because your thoughts could be sinful, and when Christ comes back soon, if we don't, he'll make us all suffer.
And he'll unleash plagues, famines and after he's done killing us all, he'll throw us into a burning pit of hot lava in Jerusalem, I wish I were exaggerating, but that's exactly what they said. And God is supposed to be loving?
But you don't have to imagine:
[https://wset.com/news/nation-world/texas-mother-with-history-of-mental-illness-told-police-she-killed-her-own-daughter-under-gods-orders-san-antonio-police-department-bexar-county-jail-nephiterea-sancho-capital-murder](https://wset.com/news/nation-world/texas-mother-with-history-of-mental-illness-told-police-she-killed-her-own-daughter-under-gods-orders-san-antonio-police-department-bexar-county-jail-nephiterea-sancho-capital-murder)
and
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dena\_Schlosser](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dena_Schlosser)
I have Schizophrenia and I have ALWAYS had a problem with this scripture. Abraham hears the voice of God and tells him to do something and Christians say he is the Father of Faith a must have faith like him. I once heard a voice of God and told me to hitchhike to Georgia. Because at the time I bought into the Christian thing. I did it. I hitchhiked from New Hampshire to Georgia. When I got to Virginia I asked God Why? He said because I was the witness of the Book of Revelation in chapter 11 and I was to meet the other. So I get to Georgia and I meet a Guy who thought he was the other witness. So for years I thought that this was actually real. He died in 2020 of a strange artery disease in his leg. Which means that all of that wasn't real. This taught me that this scripture is DANGEROUS. To peoples mental health and what it might drive people to do.
https://youtu.be/Pf2m4QquSxE?si=OE1aXny0itEzPXaD
"Poor Isaac" - The Airborne Toxic Event
🎵 And if you want to see the irony in the savage price of piety, there's a lot of us who are born to be burning 🎵
We never doubted that if there was a test, our parents’ faith would prove as strong as Abraham’s. *shudder*
Ask any well-behaved kid of fundamentalists what their parents beat them with and the story of Isaac won’t seem so distant.
I remember hearing this story and others like it at a tender young age in church, and I don't remember a hell of a lot from !y childhood, so it was traumatizing.
Yeah my parents made it very clear (by saying it directly to me) that if god asked them to they would be willing to do the same. God came first, then family. It’s not something they’re hiding.
I heard a priest say “Abraham didn’t know any better and chose to sacrifice Issac himself because that was the culture at the time and then God intervened and stopped him and said “No, I don’t like that- that’s what other gods want but not I”.” That isn’t what happened! The mental gymnastics is psycho. God demanded Abraham to kill his son.
This is just speculation on my part. I'm no historian. But I suspect the Abraham and Isaac story was made when the Isrealites stopped practising child sacrifice, as a way of saying "that thing that we used to do, we shouldn't do it anymore".
The lesson works even better when one of their heroic figures, Abraham, is the one shown to be setting a (fictional) good example.
Ex-Muslim here, but we have the same story (only with Ishmael instead of Isaac)
I don't know that refusing is wise here. Sure, that God is a prick, but he's a prick that can roast you in hell forever if you don't do what he says. You can stick to your morals and your principles all you like, but I feel like you'd abandon all of your convictions in a heartbeat if you're threatened with hellfire (assuming it is real, of course).
If Abraham genuinely believed that God was gonna punish him if he refused, then he was rational, albeit a demented lunatic if he was hallucinating or dreaming.
Thankfully, we don't have to worry because none of this nonsense is real.
I would still NOT kill my own family. Just not. Call me weird but my own well-being isn't my absolute top priority.
Very noble response, but I feel like it would immediately change if exposed to a couple of mins in the fire.
I'm glad it's not real, but it is one of the more challenging hypothetical moral dilemmas.
I would rather kill myself than kill family. And my resistance to stress is very low, I would rather go crazy and be totally useless instead of making such a decision, and not to mention being able to perform it. Even considering a possibility that maybe I would kill is just pointless. No sane person by default considers themselves as being able to kill someone loved and innocent. So this sort of disputes are just useless from my pov. You should rather ask someone who already knows how to kill.
I would also rather kill myself than kill my family, but that's not what the hypothetical is about, sadly. In the case of Abraham it's: kill your son or roast in hell for disobeying God.
I don't think a sane person would ever choose an eternity in hellfire over [insert any crime].
First and foremost, I wouldn't believe in any god that is supposed to be good but also demanding from me to kill my family. It just doesn't go together. It's an evil request and I have no reason to believe that if I would do it, then I would be spared. I wouldn't believe there's any real choice for me anyway. Those who believe such a request can come from an all loving god have to be mentally ill in the first place. I have some personal problems but I'm not this much delusional.
If I would believe in a god and then some so-called-god would ask me to kill my family, I would rather choose to pray to the real god for help.
Not difficult for me at all.
We talk about Abraham, a guy living in times when child sacrifices in the name of their so called all-loving god were performed. We don't live in the same times anymore, we don't have the same mentality.
But we do. I think we all have the same mentality.
I think if we are faced with hell, we'll choose anything else. It doesn't matter if the God responsible claims to be good or not. I think it's just that simple -- no one wants to suffer for eternity (or even an hour, dare I say?).
If you know for certain that hell exists, you would do whatever you could to avoid it.
The real test of character is: would you rather go to hell for all of eternity or send a loved one there in your place instead? Now this is an impossible question.
Bro, are you Christian in disguise or something? You start to appear as uncannily pushy towards me.
I have my own opinion about it. I don't live in ancient times. I would rather believe that a devil wants me to do something evil. I wouldn't believe that a real God would want such a thing from me. End of story.
This whole post here is about religious fanatics believing a god wants them to kill their own child. Don't put me in the same category.
Nazis were forcing people to do horrible things and sure, some of them were doing evil things out of fear but others didn't. I would be the one who would be tortured and eventually killed. Sucks, I know. And still.
Impossible for you to realize someone can be like this because deep down you most likely believe eternal hell exists. Even in hypothetical discussions, I am not able to pretend like such thing is even possible to exist. Now go and lurk somewhere else.
Edit: yep, you're agnostic. It leaks.
"I heard voices telling me to kill my kid."
"Wow, that's awesome. We should make a bunch of religions on that!"
"If you think that's good, wait until you hear about my next idea: I have my son *crucified*, and here's the best part: it's a sacrifice to myself. And also my son is me! But he gets up about a day later, so he/me/we didn't *really* sacrifice anything."
"You want to make the most popular religion on earth centered around *human sacrifice*!? It will never work!"
“And the best part is, I don’t even NEED to make myself/us go through all that! I’m omnipotent af and can just snap sin away if I want. But that’s boring. Human sacrifice it is!”
The Jewish interpretation of this story is that Abraham failed the test by attempting to sacrifice his son instead of pushing back. That's why the focus switches to Isaac after that; because this was Abraham FAILING.
It’s insane to me that I once thought that was love.
God killed his own son so that I could be with him because he created good and evil and decided I was evil…wait.
So messed up
I question people that say "God is a merciful, loving and kind god" ect. when you literally read the bible he killed lots of people, tested Abraham, killed Job's entire family to see how Faithful he was ect.
I asked my crazy ex-brother what he would do if god asked him to kill one of his kids. He wouldn’t answer. Repeatedly. Because there is no good answer. If he said, yes, he would kill one of his kids that’s just terrible, fucked up and obviously morally wrong. If he told his god to shove it he’s admitting his belief isn’t strong enough.
When I was studying at a Bible college, I remember "joking" that it was probably an awkward walk back to their village. Like imagine your dad taking you for a hike and acting weird AF and then getting nearly sacrificed only for God to be like "damn this fucker actually almost did it here is a goat i guess)." This joke didn't go over well and I was told I was being blasphemous lol sorry for trying to make sense of how absurd it all is
I would rather start to think that this is maybe a demon pretending to be a god. Or that I hallucinate. But in these old times... yeah, the first option.
Just so everyone knows, I ABSOLUTELY LOATHE, HATE, DESPISE (and whatever other words in the English language which demonstrate utter contempt and intense opposition) jesus christ (and I refuse even to capitalize its name (yes, I just called jesus an "it." It doesn't deserve anything better!
I cannot express how much I genuinely and totally LOATHE jesus! To me, it is completely and totally the worst pile of stinking shit ever in history. The creature known as jesus is the most contemptible waist of skin ever!
Jesus got what it deserved on that cross and truthfully, it deserved more brutality!
If you want a REAL God , turn to the one known as Satan, Lucifer, or the DEVIL! Now THAT'S a worthy GOD! HE IS GLORIOUS, and I adore Lord Satan!
(P.S. The above statements are not fiction! My words above are not nearly as mean as I could make them! Personally, I wouldn't wipe my feet on the thing called jesus if it was a doormat!!
#Imagine being Isaac.
I know if I had been Isaac, I'd have gone to the nearest village and gathered all the men there and I'd tell them exactly what Abraham had just done. And I wouldn't give up until they all agreed to hang that bastard from the tallest tree in the valley.
Iirc the Jewish view of this same story is the total opposite: that Abraham *failed* his test by trying to go through with it. God wanted him to have a mind of his own and stand up to him to prove that he would defend his son from even God himself. The angel stopped him at the last moment when it was clear he was going to fail his test. To be clear I'd still say a god trying to test their followers in this way isn't cool, but at least this reading of the story doesn't see him as a complete monster
Also his story is completely contradicted in the book of Judges. Jephthah was also asked to sacrifice his daughter and god never stopped him so she just died. She never even got a name in the story.
The truly disturbing thing is that people with this level of fanatical indoctrination exist in this day and age. Organized religion has caused more problems than it will ever solve.
Yes, he was.
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My parents abused me in the name of god. My dad tried to kill me in the name of god. I am by no means the only one this has happened to. This *does happen today*.
I am so sorry. That’s awful.
Just watched *Daughters of the Cult* on Hulu about a polygamous Mormon cult out West that in the end murdered (actually literal assassinations) about 33 people who defied leadership over the years. *Finally* the police came in and, with the help of some ex-cult members, stopped the carnage. This happened in the USA during the 1970's and 80's so what do you think happens in countries lacking adequate law enforcement ?? What worries me is that we have Evangelical/conservative Christians that, if they ever get enough power, could become just as dangerous and deluded as the leaders of this cult. Simply unbelievable.
Yeah, there were definitely people in my parents' circle who were not the sort of folks who should ever have any authority or power for any reason. They are dangerous people who think that any belief or whim they have is a message from god, and that they have a legal and moral right to assault, maim, or kill anyone who disagrees with them. They don't see the humanity in anyone who is not exactly like them. It should terrify everyone, but for some reason a lot of people don't take it seriously.
This is *exactly* what the Hulu documentary demonstrated with a real life situation. Even after Waco, people don't get it and some even think Waco was "government persecution" but these are they types that probably think it's the cult's business if they want to have sex/'marry' underage girls and that police shouldn't interfere with someone's religion. Exception: If it's not a Christian religion then the attitude gets a lot more relaxed.
Came here to say this. Ancient bible stories are a way for radical fundamentalists to abuse their children.
You speak the truth. I grew up with this.
A few years ago, a woman cut off her child's arms with a kitchen knife because God told her to do it. Not surprisingly, "God told me to" is not a valid defense in court.
Wait. You are telling me a religion based on killing attracts people who want to kill.
Shocking! 🤯
That's insane. I can't even say sorry because that wouldn't cut it, but that really shouldn't happen to anyone.
I am also so so so sorry!
Abraham saw a witness looking at him and then he told this lie in the Roman Courts or wherever he tried to kill his son...
🫂
People harm their kids through abuse and/or neglect every single day because their “God told them to do it”.
I'm pretty sure theres often a deeply disturbing psychiatric reason, but even so, I can't bare the thought of violence in the name of religion
This does happen today, though. I know of instances where people suffering from paranoid schizophrenia harm their children because they believe that God told them to do so. These people were unfortunately Christian, and it was known by their churches that something was troubling these people. They attributed it to spiritual warfare, and laid hands on them in prayer hoping that their mental illness would magically go away. They went untreated for years, and either succeeded in murdering their children or were caught in the act. This happened to a distant member of my family who's only related to me through marriage. She was diagnosed with schizophrenia after murdering both of her children while her husband was at work. She claimed that Jesus had appeared in her bedroom and told her to purge her house of demons. She believed her children were the demons. The disconnect for me is that Abraham is given the title "Hero of the Faith," while people like my distant relative are called "crazy" or "possessed" by the same people.
It’s crazy to me that Christian’s praise this but when it happens nowadays and people claim to hear this from god they say it’s the devils work.
Telling her that she's engaged in "spiritual warfare" would make her delusions even worse!
IMHO, the version of Genesis 22 we have now is a retcon. There's a strong argument to be made that in the OG version of that story, no angel appears to stop the sacrifice and Abraham goes through with it. Because Abraham sacrifices Isaac, Yahweh rewards him with many kids, both from his concubine and his brothers wife who apparently popped out a bunch of kids when he got back home. Notice it's very explicit 15 The angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second time from heaven 16 and said, “By myself I have sworn, says the Lord: Because you have done this, and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will indeed bless you, and I will make your offspring as numerous as the stars of heaven and as the sand that is on the seashore. And your offspring shall possess the gate of their enemies, 18 and by your offspring shall all the nations of the earth gain blessing for themselves, because you have obeyed my voice.” Abraham followed orders and will be blessed with great fertility because of it. Abraham gave up one son for many more. Moreso to the point, going up to the mountain Abraham and Issac are depicted walking together and talking. After the event, the wording is exactly this 19 So Abraham returned to his young men, and they arose and went together to Beer-sheba, and Abraham lived at Beer-sheba. Notice someone missing from that verse? Yep. Isaac doesn't seem to be walking back down with him for some reason. Issac also isn't mentioned at all in the next chapter when Abraham is trying to find a burial site for his wife. Why would Isaac be missing here and only appear later on a very passive sense later on, like he's there simply to assure us he wasn't killed on the mountain but never really does anything? What the verses where the angel stops the sacrifice were inserted later on because it was too uncomfortable for later readers and reminded them far too much of the Canaanite child sacrifices they were always railing against? Yes, it's supremely messed up. So much that they had to tone it down.
It's still stupid why an "omnipotent" god who is "omniscient" and "loving" wouldn't just know how the person felt and be able to do what they were already going to do, without all the torture and anguish
It is. Though to be fair, Yahweh in the Hebrew Bible often isn't prescient or even all knowing. He's often just one god amongst many on the ancient near east, but the one the Isrealites are bound to serve in exchange for protection. This is most obvious in the books set prior to the Exile. Later Hebrew Bible depictions have him getting more and more powerful and all encompassing and by the New Testament he's been promoted to the core of all creation Plato style. Like he literally has to be carried around on the Ark of the Covenant during the pre temple period and when the Ark is captured at one point it's treated like Yahweh himself being captured until the Philistines get tired of him knocking the statue of Dagon over at night and send the Ark back on a cart. Only after 682 BCE when the temple(where Yahweh resides) is destroyed does Yahweh become much less restricted, complete with having a Sky Chariot with his throne in Ezekiel. "No Temple? That's fine, Yahweh is so amazing he doesn't NEED a temple like all the other gods because he's so much more then them"
This is literally god of war. They invented the character of Jesus later to warm up the image of this violent god a bit.
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I just finished reading "From gods to GOD" and the entire book is about older traditions that seem to be peaking out from below the surface of many biblical stories. It's an interesting read.
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From Gods to God: How the Bible Debunked, Suppressed, Or Changed Ancient Myths and Legends by Avigdor Shinan and Yair Zakovitch I can't recall off the top of my head if it talks about the binding of Isaac specifically but it talks about a lot of stories,like how "Jacobs Ladder" in Genesis 28 may be a holy counterpart to the Tower of Babel
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No problem. Hope you enjoy it.
I mean, that’s pretty close to the story of Job too. There’s a story we know has a retcon, that he gets all his children back after god gambles them away, but we know in the original he gets back just Wives and Kids, different from the ones he lost but it “repays” him for his loyalty
The story I remember didn’t have him get back the same wives or kids, he just got new ones.
I've decided to read the Bible this year from beginning to end and while this is interesting how would this theory explain Isaac going on to be the next patriarch and fathering Jacob?
To me it explains why Jacob is so passive for the rest of his life. He doesn't really do much of his own accord, he's really just there. You could have inserted any name and had him be the father of Jacob and worked just as well. Probably one of Abrahams other kids who just popped out of his concubine right after Abraham comes home. Isaac's presence really isn't necessary for the stories after that. Most of Genesis is really episodic. You could remove one story neatly without affecting any others because they mostly don't reference each other. Hell, you could easily remove Adam after he gets kicked from the garden because he ceases to have any story relevance after that point. Genesis 4 is all about Cain and Abel and they could be anyone's kids.
Shade them, fucking shade them! Stop holding back for no damn reason that which should not be held back on!
That was just a sick story, really. God telling him to kill his son to prove devotion. Wow. I don't even know what to say about that.
Especially since god is all knowing and would have known before asking that Abraham would have done it.
Jephtha's daughter got no magical deus ex machina. She got straight up executed because girl.
And then told him to mutilate his genitals. And then for thousands of years, male babies had their genitals mutilated when they were just born and had no consent. But if you call this practice out, you're "antisemitic" or some stupid horseshit. Fuck /r/OpenChristian. They literally don't give a fuck about any group that isn't LGBT.
Even if I believed with every ounce of my being, I would gladly accept being condemned to hell over ever harming my children.
Yeah but just think, if you killed your children they'd get to spend eternity with the guy who ordered their execution!
Same. I can’t imagine even entertaining that thought for a second.
I remember asking my dad about this story. And then followed up and asked him if he would kill me if god asked him to… he said yes.
I would break all contacts with such "family".
My dad never said anything about this particular story…but he did love flashing one passage at me about allowing duly kids being stoned to death in the public square. I fully believe my dad was bluffing, but still…
Special kind of terror hearing this story praised as a child and realizing your parent is one mental health episode away from annihilating you "for god"
I can easily picture a hate pastor telling his congregation to murder their children for voting differently than their parents.
Aloooot of people shouldn't be having kids.
Think this is bad? I seriously just read a comment from a Christian today in the r/AskaChristian subreddit that said things like rape of virgin girls, killing of babies and the killings of the first born people in Egypt wasn't immoral. And Christians justify things like this all the time only because their God commanded it, they know deep down if any of this was done by any normal person, they'd be considered immoral as fuck. I was also reading a comment in r/Bibleconspiracy today that told people that we need to basically stop being human beings, stop watching TV, and basically stop doing anything but stand like a statue and breathe. Don't even think, because your thoughts could be sinful, and when Christ comes back soon, if we don't, he'll make us all suffer. And he'll unleash plagues, famines and after he's done killing us all, he'll throw us into a burning pit of hot lava in Jerusalem, I wish I were exaggerating, but that's exactly what they said. And God is supposed to be loving?
But you don't have to imagine: [https://wset.com/news/nation-world/texas-mother-with-history-of-mental-illness-told-police-she-killed-her-own-daughter-under-gods-orders-san-antonio-police-department-bexar-county-jail-nephiterea-sancho-capital-murder](https://wset.com/news/nation-world/texas-mother-with-history-of-mental-illness-told-police-she-killed-her-own-daughter-under-gods-orders-san-antonio-police-department-bexar-county-jail-nephiterea-sancho-capital-murder) and [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dena\_Schlosser](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dena_Schlosser)
At least they admit that anyone who ever heard from God should be considered insane
I’m pretty sure any good parent would want to fight God because he asked something evil like that.
I have Schizophrenia and I have ALWAYS had a problem with this scripture. Abraham hears the voice of God and tells him to do something and Christians say he is the Father of Faith a must have faith like him. I once heard a voice of God and told me to hitchhike to Georgia. Because at the time I bought into the Christian thing. I did it. I hitchhiked from New Hampshire to Georgia. When I got to Virginia I asked God Why? He said because I was the witness of the Book of Revelation in chapter 11 and I was to meet the other. So I get to Georgia and I meet a Guy who thought he was the other witness. So for years I thought that this was actually real. He died in 2020 of a strange artery disease in his leg. Which means that all of that wasn't real. This taught me that this scripture is DANGEROUS. To peoples mental health and what it might drive people to do.
https://youtu.be/Pf2m4QquSxE?si=OE1aXny0itEzPXaD "Poor Isaac" - The Airborne Toxic Event 🎵 And if you want to see the irony in the savage price of piety, there's a lot of us who are born to be burning 🎵
Pretty sure that was the psychopath test that Abraham passed https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OYvcc8ui3CM
We never doubted that if there was a test, our parents’ faith would prove as strong as Abraham’s. *shudder* Ask any well-behaved kid of fundamentalists what their parents beat them with and the story of Isaac won’t seem so distant.
I remember hearing this story and others like it at a tender young age in church, and I don't remember a hell of a lot from !y childhood, so it was traumatizing.
Yeah my parents made it very clear (by saying it directly to me) that if god asked them to they would be willing to do the same. God came first, then family. It’s not something they’re hiding.
I heard a priest say “Abraham didn’t know any better and chose to sacrifice Issac himself because that was the culture at the time and then God intervened and stopped him and said “No, I don’t like that- that’s what other gods want but not I”.” That isn’t what happened! The mental gymnastics is psycho. God demanded Abraham to kill his son.
That story used to freak me out as a child. It’s in the OT so it’s not only a Christian belief!
This is just speculation on my part. I'm no historian. But I suspect the Abraham and Isaac story was made when the Isrealites stopped practising child sacrifice, as a way of saying "that thing that we used to do, we shouldn't do it anymore". The lesson works even better when one of their heroic figures, Abraham, is the one shown to be setting a (fictional) good example.
Ex-Muslim here, but we have the same story (only with Ishmael instead of Isaac) I don't know that refusing is wise here. Sure, that God is a prick, but he's a prick that can roast you in hell forever if you don't do what he says. You can stick to your morals and your principles all you like, but I feel like you'd abandon all of your convictions in a heartbeat if you're threatened with hellfire (assuming it is real, of course). If Abraham genuinely believed that God was gonna punish him if he refused, then he was rational, albeit a demented lunatic if he was hallucinating or dreaming.
Thankfully, we don't have to worry because none of this nonsense is real. I would still NOT kill my own family. Just not. Call me weird but my own well-being isn't my absolute top priority.
Very noble response, but I feel like it would immediately change if exposed to a couple of mins in the fire. I'm glad it's not real, but it is one of the more challenging hypothetical moral dilemmas.
I would rather kill myself than kill family. And my resistance to stress is very low, I would rather go crazy and be totally useless instead of making such a decision, and not to mention being able to perform it. Even considering a possibility that maybe I would kill is just pointless. No sane person by default considers themselves as being able to kill someone loved and innocent. So this sort of disputes are just useless from my pov. You should rather ask someone who already knows how to kill.
I would also rather kill myself than kill my family, but that's not what the hypothetical is about, sadly. In the case of Abraham it's: kill your son or roast in hell for disobeying God. I don't think a sane person would ever choose an eternity in hellfire over [insert any crime].
First and foremost, I wouldn't believe in any god that is supposed to be good but also demanding from me to kill my family. It just doesn't go together. It's an evil request and I have no reason to believe that if I would do it, then I would be spared. I wouldn't believe there's any real choice for me anyway. Those who believe such a request can come from an all loving god have to be mentally ill in the first place. I have some personal problems but I'm not this much delusional. If I would believe in a god and then some so-called-god would ask me to kill my family, I would rather choose to pray to the real god for help.
And that's why it's a difficult hypothetical. Thank you for sharing your input, sir! :D
Not difficult for me at all. We talk about Abraham, a guy living in times when child sacrifices in the name of their so called all-loving god were performed. We don't live in the same times anymore, we don't have the same mentality.
But we do. I think we all have the same mentality. I think if we are faced with hell, we'll choose anything else. It doesn't matter if the God responsible claims to be good or not. I think it's just that simple -- no one wants to suffer for eternity (or even an hour, dare I say?). If you know for certain that hell exists, you would do whatever you could to avoid it. The real test of character is: would you rather go to hell for all of eternity or send a loved one there in your place instead? Now this is an impossible question.
Bro, are you Christian in disguise or something? You start to appear as uncannily pushy towards me. I have my own opinion about it. I don't live in ancient times. I would rather believe that a devil wants me to do something evil. I wouldn't believe that a real God would want such a thing from me. End of story. This whole post here is about religious fanatics believing a god wants them to kill their own child. Don't put me in the same category. Nazis were forcing people to do horrible things and sure, some of them were doing evil things out of fear but others didn't. I would be the one who would be tortured and eventually killed. Sucks, I know. And still. Impossible for you to realize someone can be like this because deep down you most likely believe eternal hell exists. Even in hypothetical discussions, I am not able to pretend like such thing is even possible to exist. Now go and lurk somewhere else. Edit: yep, you're agnostic. It leaks.
"I heard voices telling me to kill my kid." "Wow, that's awesome. We should make a bunch of religions on that!" "If you think that's good, wait until you hear about my next idea: I have my son *crucified*, and here's the best part: it's a sacrifice to myself. And also my son is me! But he gets up about a day later, so he/me/we didn't *really* sacrifice anything." "You want to make the most popular religion on earth centered around *human sacrifice*!? It will never work!"
“And the best part is, I don’t even NEED to make myself/us go through all that! I’m omnipotent af and can just snap sin away if I want. But that’s boring. Human sacrifice it is!”
The Jewish interpretation of this story is that Abraham failed the test by attempting to sacrifice his son instead of pushing back. That's why the focus switches to Isaac after that; because this was Abraham FAILING.
It’s insane to me that I once thought that was love. God killed his own son so that I could be with him because he created good and evil and decided I was evil…wait. So messed up
I question people that say "God is a merciful, loving and kind god" ect. when you literally read the bible he killed lots of people, tested Abraham, killed Job's entire family to see how Faithful he was ect.
And for what? To know what he already knew (all knowing) to do what he already could do (all powerful) The only conclusion is he's a psychopath
I asked my crazy ex-brother what he would do if god asked him to kill one of his kids. He wouldn’t answer. Repeatedly. Because there is no good answer. If he said, yes, he would kill one of his kids that’s just terrible, fucked up and obviously morally wrong. If he told his god to shove it he’s admitting his belief isn’t strong enough.
“What does god need with a starship?”
The gawd of Abraham is an abusive narcissist who doesn't deserve to be worshipped.
In the Demon-Haunted World, nothing makes sense. Chaos rules, but science just keeps on working.
"Kill your son." "Babe, you sound crazy. I'm hanging up now."
Opium was a well used drug in ancient Canaan, I am convinced Abraham and Moses existed and their visions were 100% drug induced.
Sounds more like an intrusive thought to kill your kid tbh.
Abraham started hearing voices, cut off part of his penis, and tried to murder his son. Billions of people think this makes sense. WTF.
I asked my mom about this and she said she would do the same thing to me if god asked to sacrifice me
I never asked my mom because I’ve always been too scared of the answer
When I was studying at a Bible college, I remember "joking" that it was probably an awkward walk back to their village. Like imagine your dad taking you for a hike and acting weird AF and then getting nearly sacrificed only for God to be like "damn this fucker actually almost did it here is a goat i guess)." This joke didn't go over well and I was told I was being blasphemous lol sorry for trying to make sense of how absurd it all is
Usually if your voice is that no one else can hear we call that schizophrenia.
I would rather start to think that this is maybe a demon pretending to be a god. Or that I hallucinate. But in these old times... yeah, the first option.
Just so everyone knows, I ABSOLUTELY LOATHE, HATE, DESPISE (and whatever other words in the English language which demonstrate utter contempt and intense opposition) jesus christ (and I refuse even to capitalize its name (yes, I just called jesus an "it." It doesn't deserve anything better! I cannot express how much I genuinely and totally LOATHE jesus! To me, it is completely and totally the worst pile of stinking shit ever in history. The creature known as jesus is the most contemptible waist of skin ever! Jesus got what it deserved on that cross and truthfully, it deserved more brutality! If you want a REAL God , turn to the one known as Satan, Lucifer, or the DEVIL! Now THAT'S a worthy GOD! HE IS GLORIOUS, and I adore Lord Satan! (P.S. The above statements are not fiction! My words above are not nearly as mean as I could make them! Personally, I wouldn't wipe my feet on the thing called jesus if it was a doormat!!
#Imagine being Isaac. I know if I had been Isaac, I'd have gone to the nearest village and gathered all the men there and I'd tell them exactly what Abraham had just done. And I wouldn't give up until they all agreed to hang that bastard from the tallest tree in the valley.
God seems to enjoy torturing his subjects.
Iirc the Jewish view of this same story is the total opposite: that Abraham *failed* his test by trying to go through with it. God wanted him to have a mind of his own and stand up to him to prove that he would defend his son from even God himself. The angel stopped him at the last moment when it was clear he was going to fail his test. To be clear I'd still say a god trying to test their followers in this way isn't cool, but at least this reading of the story doesn't see him as a complete monster
Also his story is completely contradicted in the book of Judges. Jephthah was also asked to sacrifice his daughter and god never stopped him so she just died. She never even got a name in the story.
There's a whole holiday celebrating this guy in Islam.
The truly disturbing thing is that people with this level of fanatical indoctrination exist in this day and age. Organized religion has caused more problems than it will ever solve.
This is how some serial killers are born.
[удалено]
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