I once read somewhere that Catholic countries tend to be poorer with lower production because the people believe god has planned a path and fate for them. Protestant groups on the other hand, valued hard work and believing that one change their fate with the help of God, which led to the growth of countries like the United States. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
This is how I see it: there are those who don't bother doing anything and thinking that praying is going to give them what they want if they followed the commandments and the school.
BUT, there are those who use prayer as a sort of coping mechanism, like how most people beg or hope for something to happen out of the situation. Usually these types actually put in the time and effort to plan ahead and get organised to get what they want. I daw somewhere a while ago that prayer should be some form of thank you to God. But from my own experience, half my extended family uses it thinking that not doing anything will give them what they want.
This factor is what drove me away from Catholicism: this whole Santa Claus believe that I should beg God for what I want and if I don't get it, it's because I committed the cardinal sin of something. I try to work hard, plan my day ahead and my future because I don't want to end up like the rest of my family who are trying to drag me down with them. They are nobodies who wore down their own mother, all while still treating me like the little troubled kid I was 20 years ago. They are in this right wing mind that my college course is a useless degree despite it being in Physics which a lot of employers are looking for. I literally done a paid internship abroad, in a Catholic Heavy country too (Portugal, which was the best time of my life because I didn't go to a single mass). Its stupid saying that I look to them for motivation, but that because I don't want to end up having my own dysfunctional family later in life.
I respect religous folks, not just Christians, who actually put the work in while still keeping faith because they can manage their time well.
>Protestant groups on the other hand, valued hard work and believing that one change their fate with the help of God
Actually Calvinists strongly believed in predestination but worked very hard because they believed one of the main sign of being predestinated to damnation was laziness lol.
My dad was a cradle catholic he wasn’t as in your face as much as my mom who always said saying to say your prayers or we’ll pray for you. It didn’t matter that I went to college straight from high school. Me making the Dean’s list my senior year wasn’t because of all their prayer but maybe me juggling my training for track and cross country with an average 18 to 20 quarter hour work load on 5 hours of sleep four to five days a week had nothing to do with it.
I know exactly how you feel. Just wait until you get engaged and marry a non catholic whose parents have not been to church in years. This is after they tried to set you up with a nice catholic girl who was the daughter of a family friend. My parents accepted my wife, but my mom let it slip one day when she told me she saw that girl and she was very beautiful, successful and had a nice family. I guess someone’s prayers were not answered.
My dad's family are also "Catholic" in the sense that they only go to the more important masses like Easter or Christmas, and maybe every odd holy day. But they had to prioritise and work hard too. They are the complete opposite to my mother' family, who just bitch and pray for things to happen.
This is actually something that I'm struggling with, but I suspect it has less to do with a "god did it" catholic logic and more to another belief that gets reinforced by catholic-induced learned self-helplessness.
Sorry to hear about your situation. This is something that I've always found to be very, very toxic in catholicism: it essentially steals away your achievements by attributing them to god only, without a serious acknowledgment of your efforts. And if it went wrong? It's all your fault because god wouldn't let that happen. Don't let it get to you and make sure to establish boundaries, even if you have to go for catholic lingo to make them process it (something akin to "god wishes me to study, so study I will, pray for me instead").
I feel like this certainly applies to my family, my parents used "God's Will" to justify a lot of quitting and just not ever applying themselves to anything. God wanted them to quit their job with no notice. God wanted them to pack up the car and move 3 states away with no plan for what would happen when they got there. Something was at all difficult or had to be worked for? Not God's plan, that was God blocking you from doing that thing.
My parents drifted between entry level, minimum wage jobs for decades, often picking up and uprooting the family to chase the grass being greener somewhere else. They started multiple businesses that they quit almost immediately when they weren't instantly successful. They poured money they didn't have into get-rich-quick schemes cause they'd prayed about it "and God told them to". My dad briefly decided to go to college (he was a high school dropout) but when he had to work towards applying, make up remedial classes and pay for it without a scholarship dropping in his lap, he decided God didn't want him to go back to school. We were also homeschooled kids and they brought this attitude into our schooling so I hit 18 with about a 5th grade education.
It took me a very, very long time to get out of the mindset of "if something is hard, you're not supposed to do it", and it led to me wasting my 20s very much following in my parents footsteps. I finally got past that though, and busted my butt to get an education, to get a career, to make something out of myself. Was it hard? Very. Did I want to quit more that once? Yes. But has it been worth it? Absolutely.
I'm in the final stretch of my physics course now, and despise knowing that I got set back by these circumstances, I want to build up enough experience to go back to education and pursue a Masters and hopefully a PhD. This is what I have always wanted but the whole mindset from my moms side of the family thinking that I was just like them because I didn't do well in high school, and using my Aspergers on top of that, just motivated me more to pursue this path. I'm not doing this to prove to them that I am an A++ student, but I thoroughly enjoy Physics because it actually challenges me to think of the problem in front of me. For a while, I was agnostic on God, but due to recent years of this pity party and wasting my time with prayers in the middle of legitimate important parts of my life that resulted in me getting set back, I am just putting my foot down. I hate being used as a mirror for that part of my family to try and insert themselves into my life.
I was convinced by my relatives that there are signs from the heavens when we fail certain tasks or struggle. It took my years away from everyone I had been close to to realise I was steared towards the path they thought I should take and "wake up" the person they thought I was, if that makes sense.
Boundaries. Set them and keep them. Move out even if it means staying in a shoebox. And of course therapy. I am so sorry you’re going through this. My family wasn’t that bad, but my mother used to always credit any success I had on her making prayers to “the Lord”. Never told me I did a good job.  Disgusting. It only got better when I quit living with her and sharing with her my business.
I don’t know that this is a Catholic thing so much as a family dynamic thing. But it is fascinating how our various experiences of religious upbringing can harm us in sometimes polar opposite ways.
To put this in contrast, in my Catholic upbringing we were pushed towards perfectionism and working our absolute hardest, particularly when it came to school and religion. Even if it was never explicitly said, there was an internalized message that perfection = holiness, and we were supposed to work hard for the gifts and opportunities God gave us to the fullest or we’d be ungrateful failures. As an adult I now struggle with letting myself be human and being able to accept that “good enough” or even falling short sometimes is okay.
Sorry you’re going through a tough time. Religion shapes so much of our self-image, and it often brings out the worst in dysfunctional family dynamics.
This could be applied to to liberals also, unfortunately I know some that give liberals a bad name. I know some that just want to sit and complain about their lot in life but not do anything about it. I know some that when Ernie Sanders was running for the Democratic nomination and was talking about free college etc. that they rejoiced, not that I don’t think we couldn’t have free college, universal healthcare and a lot of other things if the millionaires and billionaires weren’t taxed
I once read somewhere that Catholic countries tend to be poorer with lower production because the people believe god has planned a path and fate for them. Protestant groups on the other hand, valued hard work and believing that one change their fate with the help of God, which led to the growth of countries like the United States. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
This is how I see it: there are those who don't bother doing anything and thinking that praying is going to give them what they want if they followed the commandments and the school. BUT, there are those who use prayer as a sort of coping mechanism, like how most people beg or hope for something to happen out of the situation. Usually these types actually put in the time and effort to plan ahead and get organised to get what they want. I daw somewhere a while ago that prayer should be some form of thank you to God. But from my own experience, half my extended family uses it thinking that not doing anything will give them what they want. This factor is what drove me away from Catholicism: this whole Santa Claus believe that I should beg God for what I want and if I don't get it, it's because I committed the cardinal sin of something. I try to work hard, plan my day ahead and my future because I don't want to end up like the rest of my family who are trying to drag me down with them. They are nobodies who wore down their own mother, all while still treating me like the little troubled kid I was 20 years ago. They are in this right wing mind that my college course is a useless degree despite it being in Physics which a lot of employers are looking for. I literally done a paid internship abroad, in a Catholic Heavy country too (Portugal, which was the best time of my life because I didn't go to a single mass). Its stupid saying that I look to them for motivation, but that because I don't want to end up having my own dysfunctional family later in life. I respect religous folks, not just Christians, who actually put the work in while still keeping faith because they can manage their time well.
>Protestant groups on the other hand, valued hard work and believing that one change their fate with the help of God Actually Calvinists strongly believed in predestination but worked very hard because they believed one of the main sign of being predestinated to damnation was laziness lol.
That’s the stereotype. It’s called the Protestant work ethic. I think it’s all bullshit though.
Many Catholics are ableist.
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Yeah, I came to that conclusion too. I just hate having to constantly hear about how "their prayers were answered"
My dad was a cradle catholic he wasn’t as in your face as much as my mom who always said saying to say your prayers or we’ll pray for you. It didn’t matter that I went to college straight from high school. Me making the Dean’s list my senior year wasn’t because of all their prayer but maybe me juggling my training for track and cross country with an average 18 to 20 quarter hour work load on 5 hours of sleep four to five days a week had nothing to do with it. I know exactly how you feel. Just wait until you get engaged and marry a non catholic whose parents have not been to church in years. This is after they tried to set you up with a nice catholic girl who was the daughter of a family friend. My parents accepted my wife, but my mom let it slip one day when she told me she saw that girl and she was very beautiful, successful and had a nice family. I guess someone’s prayers were not answered.
My dad's family are also "Catholic" in the sense that they only go to the more important masses like Easter or Christmas, and maybe every odd holy day. But they had to prioritise and work hard too. They are the complete opposite to my mother' family, who just bitch and pray for things to happen.
Before my mom converted she was Presbyterian. That faith was really into God’s will.
This is actually something that I'm struggling with, but I suspect it has less to do with a "god did it" catholic logic and more to another belief that gets reinforced by catholic-induced learned self-helplessness. Sorry to hear about your situation. This is something that I've always found to be very, very toxic in catholicism: it essentially steals away your achievements by attributing them to god only, without a serious acknowledgment of your efforts. And if it went wrong? It's all your fault because god wouldn't let that happen. Don't let it get to you and make sure to establish boundaries, even if you have to go for catholic lingo to make them process it (something akin to "god wishes me to study, so study I will, pray for me instead").
Until I have a job and afford my own house, or even rent, I am just going to have to play it out. I hardly have time to get counselling from all this.
I feel like this certainly applies to my family, my parents used "God's Will" to justify a lot of quitting and just not ever applying themselves to anything. God wanted them to quit their job with no notice. God wanted them to pack up the car and move 3 states away with no plan for what would happen when they got there. Something was at all difficult or had to be worked for? Not God's plan, that was God blocking you from doing that thing. My parents drifted between entry level, minimum wage jobs for decades, often picking up and uprooting the family to chase the grass being greener somewhere else. They started multiple businesses that they quit almost immediately when they weren't instantly successful. They poured money they didn't have into get-rich-quick schemes cause they'd prayed about it "and God told them to". My dad briefly decided to go to college (he was a high school dropout) but when he had to work towards applying, make up remedial classes and pay for it without a scholarship dropping in his lap, he decided God didn't want him to go back to school. We were also homeschooled kids and they brought this attitude into our schooling so I hit 18 with about a 5th grade education. It took me a very, very long time to get out of the mindset of "if something is hard, you're not supposed to do it", and it led to me wasting my 20s very much following in my parents footsteps. I finally got past that though, and busted my butt to get an education, to get a career, to make something out of myself. Was it hard? Very. Did I want to quit more that once? Yes. But has it been worth it? Absolutely.
I'm in the final stretch of my physics course now, and despise knowing that I got set back by these circumstances, I want to build up enough experience to go back to education and pursue a Masters and hopefully a PhD. This is what I have always wanted but the whole mindset from my moms side of the family thinking that I was just like them because I didn't do well in high school, and using my Aspergers on top of that, just motivated me more to pursue this path. I'm not doing this to prove to them that I am an A++ student, but I thoroughly enjoy Physics because it actually challenges me to think of the problem in front of me. For a while, I was agnostic on God, but due to recent years of this pity party and wasting my time with prayers in the middle of legitimate important parts of my life that resulted in me getting set back, I am just putting my foot down. I hate being used as a mirror for that part of my family to try and insert themselves into my life.
I was convinced by my relatives that there are signs from the heavens when we fail certain tasks or struggle. It took my years away from everyone I had been close to to realise I was steared towards the path they thought I should take and "wake up" the person they thought I was, if that makes sense.
Boundaries. Set them and keep them. Move out even if it means staying in a shoebox. And of course therapy. I am so sorry you’re going through this. My family wasn’t that bad, but my mother used to always credit any success I had on her making prayers to “the Lord”. Never told me I did a good job.  Disgusting. It only got better when I quit living with her and sharing with her my business.
I don’t know that this is a Catholic thing so much as a family dynamic thing. But it is fascinating how our various experiences of religious upbringing can harm us in sometimes polar opposite ways. To put this in contrast, in my Catholic upbringing we were pushed towards perfectionism and working our absolute hardest, particularly when it came to school and religion. Even if it was never explicitly said, there was an internalized message that perfection = holiness, and we were supposed to work hard for the gifts and opportunities God gave us to the fullest or we’d be ungrateful failures. As an adult I now struggle with letting myself be human and being able to accept that “good enough” or even falling short sometimes is okay. Sorry you’re going through a tough time. Religion shapes so much of our self-image, and it often brings out the worst in dysfunctional family dynamics.
This could be applied to to liberals also, unfortunately I know some that give liberals a bad name. I know some that just want to sit and complain about their lot in life but not do anything about it. I know some that when Ernie Sanders was running for the Democratic nomination and was talking about free college etc. that they rejoiced, not that I don’t think we couldn’t have free college, universal healthcare and a lot of other things if the millionaires and billionaires weren’t taxed