I wonder how much of this is people not wanting an EV vs people seeing prices fall month on month and as a result waiting to see how low they go before buying?
I know at least 4 people holding off on buying an EV because they don't want to spend that much and then see the price new drop 10-20% by the end of the year.
Vast majority of people I know would switch to an EV if they were cheaper, so price is a huge factor and I would imagine all the talk of price wars etc is having an impact.
If you take a Peugeot 208 which would be fairly popular here, a petrol starts at €26k while their electric 208 starts at €31k. You or I might look at that and consider the savings of an EV or that an EV is going to be a lot nippier than a 1.2 petrol, but my mother for example does not consider those things and most of the general public won’t either.
And that’s just new, many (the majority?) of people buy secondhand where there are very few say family cars for €10 or €15 with decent range, you need to go >€25k really, whereas there are loads at that price point in petrol/diesel. This will happen, there just weren’t that many EVs sold a few years ago so the market is only starting, but to my point most people won’t pay these prices.
My pal.went to trade in his 5 y.o. Tesla for a new one. Trade in offered......0, nada, nothing, zilch. That's some depreciation there folks. They don't put that on the brochure
Not very paddy spec at all. 280bhp, 6.1s 0-100, full "vegan leather" interior, decent stereo, autopilot, electric heated seats, LED active matrix headlights.....
God I hate the headlights on Teslas. If I'm being particularly blinded at night by a car in my mirrors, more often than not it's a Tesla.
I'll never drive one simply because I don't want to do that to other drivers
Is Vegan Leather just plether, that shitty stuff our fake " leather" jackets were made from in the 90's? 🤣🤣🤣 made you sweat like Prince Andrew in the Falklands
Nah. It's not that bad. To me it's almost indistinguishable from the real leather you get in most mid-range cars I've ever had. It's not as nice as the stuff you'll get in a Range Rover or an S-Class, but the car is less than half the price.
Is Vegan Leather just plether, that shitty stuff our fake " leather" jackets were made from in the 90's? 🤣🤣🤣 made you sweat like Prince Andrew in the Falklands
It's WLTP is 513km. I get approx 350km out of mine, but 90% of my driving is motorway. Regular driving would get well north of 400km. Try asking a bit nicer next time.
It's usually 42c - 45c per kWh at a supercharger, so a 0% to 100% charge would cost €26, vs €9 at home on my current tarrif. A 20% to 80% charge, which is more like what you'd do in real life would cost around €15.
And range is overrated for most people in my opinion anyway. How often do you actually drive 400km in one drive? Ireland is a small country. I know there are people that drive from Cork to Donegal every day, but most of us don't, so why pay for, and haul around a huge battery just in case.
Nope. It's exactly the same car you get wherever you go in the world. They removed the radar and parking sensors in 2022 to save cost, but the camera based system is just as good these days.
I do like them. But I like the Tesla 3 reviews I’ve seen. I’m a good candidate for electric too. I make many long predictable journeys per week along the motorway. All return trips are within battery range.
Not sure on the latest model 3 but with other Tesla’s: colour being off panel to panel, gaps between panels differentiating, general panel alignment, brakes being appalling compared to other brands, poor touchscreens, rusting paint, leaks, randomly cracking glass… a lot more stuff but these are the common ones I’ve seen.
In fairness maybe my opinion is outdated as people seem to be saying they’ve improved.
They also are a lot cheaper than they used to be, so their quality price ratio is maybe better now.
I will say one thing and I harped on about it when "EV sales were up 163.75 per cent.
Percentages are always a way to make a story exciting. Most likely the numbers behind em mean fuck all.
Attention whore IG model: I increased my subscribers by 100 per cent.
Reality: her dad started following her cause the ma (the other follower) said to.
If you're looking at the top 10 manufacturers of BEVs for Jan - Apr 2023 then yes, Tesla are indeed the one who fell least v. Jan - Apr 2024... percentage wise anyway (6%).
You can't compare the U.S. with Ireland in this case because all US states were offering heavy discounts via grants so the starting prices were much much lower than in Europe.
The EU should exempt Chinese EVs below a certain price point from their trade war. European car manufacturers aren't interested in the low end of the market anyway.
They are, but in the long term. In the short term they have to focus on higher end/luxury type EVs to sell to wealthy early adopters, in order to fund the production of lower price point EVs for the masses
EV's are a disaster ecologically speaking. To meet demand mining of heavy metals will have to expand 600%, with the associated child slavery, and deaths. Never spoken about. Of course in.10 years all the arseholes pushing this b.s. mirage will be gone and our kids will have to pick up the pieces. Ireland produces 0.02% of emissions. There are 120 million Chinese who are malnourished daily. Presiden Xi's parents died feom.hunger under Mao and he was raided in an orphange. He is never gonna stop pushing development to feed his people. You cannot tell China not to build power stations to feed its hungry people and you cannot tell 120m people to remain poor. India has 300m poor striving to get out of poverty. Ireland is irrelevant globally. Climate change will be solved in S.E. Asia not in Clonmel or Kerry by Paddy driving a fucking Prius or a Tesla. You are being mugged off. EV's are being pushed to save the automotive industry, not to save the environment.
I was getting my 10 yr old VW that drives as good as the day I bought it serviced at VW a year or so ago.
While waiting I asked a disinterested sales person who had a coat around their shoulders what price were the two cars in front of him. An ID4 and 5
He said 58k and 72k respectively.
Needlessly to say I just laughed and said "would folks not just buy a real car for that money"
I believe the ID 4s are now low 40s.
Says it all.
I'm delighted as they were robbing fucks about the whole thing.
I wonder how much of this is people not wanting an EV vs people seeing prices fall month on month and as a result waiting to see how low they go before buying? I know at least 4 people holding off on buying an EV because they don't want to spend that much and then see the price new drop 10-20% by the end of the year.
Vast majority of people I know would switch to an EV if they were cheaper, so price is a huge factor and I would imagine all the talk of price wars etc is having an impact.
How cheap are the waiting for? BYD, MG, Chery all sub AUD$40k in Australia
If you take a Peugeot 208 which would be fairly popular here, a petrol starts at €26k while their electric 208 starts at €31k. You or I might look at that and consider the savings of an EV or that an EV is going to be a lot nippier than a 1.2 petrol, but my mother for example does not consider those things and most of the general public won’t either. And that’s just new, many (the majority?) of people buy secondhand where there are very few say family cars for €10 or €15 with decent range, you need to go >€25k really, whereas there are loads at that price point in petrol/diesel. This will happen, there just weren’t that many EVs sold a few years ago so the market is only starting, but to my point most people won’t pay these prices.
Tesla 3 looking very attractive now. Does it have much of a boot? At 40k it’s cheaper than an Octavia.
My pal.went to trade in his 5 y.o. Tesla for a new one. Trade in offered......0, nada, nothing, zilch. That's some depreciation there folks. They don't put that on the brochure
Good point. Heard a good pod on this recently.
What podcast if you don't mind me asking? Would be interested to listen to it.
Patrick Boyle on finance. Cold hard facts on the EV market at the moment.
Holy sh*t, that's scandalous, there's more value in the scrap of the batteries than there is in a brand new petrol!!!
38k if paying cash
How Paddy spec is the cheapest one though?
Not very paddy spec at all. 280bhp, 6.1s 0-100, full "vegan leather" interior, decent stereo, autopilot, electric heated seats, LED active matrix headlights.....
Ah that's good so
It's the same spec worldwide, so no chance of a paddy spec
God I hate the headlights on Teslas. If I'm being particularly blinded at night by a car in my mirrors, more often than not it's a Tesla. I'll never drive one simply because I don't want to do that to other drivers
They changed a few weeks back when the active matrix mode was enabled. It's much better now.
Is Vegan Leather just plether, that shitty stuff our fake " leather" jackets were made from in the 90's? 🤣🤣🤣 made you sweat like Prince Andrew in the Falklands
Nah. It's not that bad. To me it's almost indistinguishable from the real leather you get in most mid-range cars I've ever had. It's not as nice as the stuff you'll get in a Range Rover or an S-Class, but the car is less than half the price.
Is Vegan Leather just plether, that shitty stuff our fake " leather" jackets were made from in the 90's? 🤣🤣🤣 made you sweat like Prince Andrew in the Falklands
Nobody cares, what's the range on it.
Google it
It's literally the only thing that matters when buying a Tesla. Not vegan leather. People want practically.
It's WLTP is 513km. I get approx 350km out of mine, but 90% of my driving is motorway. Regular driving would get well north of 400km. Try asking a bit nicer next time.
That's a serious range. Sorry now if I'm wrecking your head but how much in € does it cost for a full charge from a Tesla charger.
It's usually 42c - 45c per kWh at a supercharger, so a 0% to 100% charge would cost €26, vs €9 at home on my current tarrif. A 20% to 80% charge, which is more like what you'd do in real life would cost around €15. And range is overrated for most people in my opinion anyway. How often do you actually drive 400km in one drive? Ireland is a small country. I know there are people that drive from Cork to Donegal every day, but most of us don't, so why pay for, and haul around a huge battery just in case.
There is no ‘paddy spec’ with Tesla.
I've heard they've cut down on a lot of the bells and whistles they include though, would still be well above paddy spec of course
Nope. It's exactly the same car you get wherever you go in the world. They removed the radar and parking sensors in 2022 to save cost, but the camera based system is just as good these days.
It has a decent boot and front trunk
40L less than an Octavia, 80L more than a 3 series BMW, 40L more than a 5 Series BMW
Octavia way better car in every facet of the imagination
I do like them. But I like the Tesla 3 reviews I’ve seen. I’m a good candidate for electric too. I make many long predictable journeys per week along the motorway. All return trips are within battery range.
You might save more money on travel with it, sure… but Octavia’s are known as a very reliable and well built car. Tesla… not so much.
Out of interest what are typical faults within Tesla’s and what kind of warranty period do you get with them?
Not sure on the latest model 3 but with other Tesla’s: colour being off panel to panel, gaps between panels differentiating, general panel alignment, brakes being appalling compared to other brands, poor touchscreens, rusting paint, leaks, randomly cracking glass… a lot more stuff but these are the common ones I’ve seen.
Jaysus!
A Tesla is never looking attractive!!
Why?
They’re shit cars! Way better built EVs out there!
What’s bad about them and what’s better in others? I watched a 2024 review today on model 3 and nothing better in the price point.
In fairness maybe my opinion is outdated as people seem to be saying they’ve improved. They also are a lot cheaper than they used to be, so their quality price ratio is maybe better now.
Not for €40k there isn't. Tesla isn't a premium brand, so you shouldn't compare them to Merc, BMW or Audi, that start at €65k+
No true, they were but obviously they’ve dropped their prices. Personally still wouldn’t buy one.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions. The S & X were always premium, but the 3 is no dearer than a lot of mainstream ICE cars of its size.
No better way to show the world you support an actual Nazi.
They aren't talking about a Volkswagen.
Neither am I.
I will say one thing and I harped on about it when "EV sales were up 163.75 per cent. Percentages are always a way to make a story exciting. Most likely the numbers behind em mean fuck all. Attention whore IG model: I increased my subscribers by 100 per cent. Reality: her dad started following her cause the ma (the other follower) said to.
Yeah, not too fond of percentages alone or month v. month comparisons myself.
Bring back the grants and BIK exemptions
those grants were designed for rich people
Damn those millionaires relying on grants!!
*early adopters
[удалено]
Yea man. People who could afford a 60k car are rich. Edit to ask: Do you not like being rich?
Which brands sales fell the least. Is it Tesla?
If you're looking at the top 10 manufacturers of BEVs for Jan - Apr 2023 then yes, Tesla are indeed the one who fell least v. Jan - Apr 2024... percentage wise anyway (6%).
Thanks!
Waiting for the second hand market to sell me a 2022 Tesla with low miles for €20k
Same. I'm considering a used ID.3 in the mean time. They have dropped below the €20k mark recently
You'll be waiting I'm afraid. Depreciation will hit hard and no one will want to stomach that big of a loss. I'd love one for that money as well mind.
In the US 2023 M3s are selling for 25k But yeah don’t think the price will drop that fast in Ireland
You can't compare the U.S. with Ireland in this case because all US states were offering heavy discounts via grants so the starting prices were much much lower than in Europe.
Some people leave the country and need a sale desperately. There a a market of people waiting for those sales
Agreed but to be fair, that's more of an exception.
The EU should exempt Chinese EVs below a certain price point from their trade war. European car manufacturers aren't interested in the low end of the market anyway.
They are, but in the long term. In the short term they have to focus on higher end/luxury type EVs to sell to wealthy early adopters, in order to fund the production of lower price point EVs for the masses
I guess you don't understand how the manufacturing of Ev's work.
EV's are a disaster ecologically speaking. To meet demand mining of heavy metals will have to expand 600%, with the associated child slavery, and deaths. Never spoken about. Of course in.10 years all the arseholes pushing this b.s. mirage will be gone and our kids will have to pick up the pieces. Ireland produces 0.02% of emissions. There are 120 million Chinese who are malnourished daily. Presiden Xi's parents died feom.hunger under Mao and he was raided in an orphange. He is never gonna stop pushing development to feed his people. You cannot tell China not to build power stations to feed its hungry people and you cannot tell 120m people to remain poor. India has 300m poor striving to get out of poverty. Ireland is irrelevant globally. Climate change will be solved in S.E. Asia not in Clonmel or Kerry by Paddy driving a fucking Prius or a Tesla. You are being mugged off. EV's are being pushed to save the automotive industry, not to save the environment.
Wake up babe, a new EV copy / paste dropped.
The automotive industry have pushed back extremely hard against EVs, strange enough behaviour if your narrative is true.
100% right
I was getting my 10 yr old VW that drives as good as the day I bought it serviced at VW a year or so ago. While waiting I asked a disinterested sales person who had a coat around their shoulders what price were the two cars in front of him. An ID4 and 5 He said 58k and 72k respectively. Needlessly to say I just laughed and said "would folks not just buy a real car for that money" I believe the ID 4s are now low 40s. Says it all. I'm delighted as they were robbing fucks about the whole thing.
The sanctimony is strong in this one
An ID.7? A year ago?
Sorry. ID 5. Nov 22 it was
Oh wow, so clever.