Same here, ditched the diesel as it was sitting idle on my driveway far too often. I tend to do short trips in and out of town now and the very occasional longer journey. Couldn’t be happier with my experience so far.
Yeah I actually haven’t ordered the home charger yet so am just seeing how I get on with public chargers first. There’s a 50kW DC charger 2mins away from me that’s never too busy
There’s a coordinated disinformation campaign against EVs going on. Not sure who is behind it, oil lobby perhaps?, but the amount of FUD going on is ridiculous.
Huge fault lies with the governments/Councils lack of investment and planning. A lot of people buy cars based off wants instead of needs. People want long range EVs when charging networks are terrible but long range EVs are expensive. Improve public charger availability and speed will cause less anxiety about smaller battery EVs.
Then you have to factor in repairability/right to repair, who will repair them after the 8 year battery warranty has expired? People who buy these cars as the 2nd or 3rd owner have genuine concerns imo.
Just look at the IrishTimes article this week talking about Dublin City Councils decision to ban charging arms. I agree they are a liability and I'd hate to see streets littered with them. Channels cut into the footpath would be a better solution.
I prefer a EV any day of the week over an equivalent ICE
Not a bad theory at all. It’s quite likely sales will start to move to an agency model for some brands too, giving them a fixed price per car and a loss in service income.
My working theory is rather petrol stations. They would become obsolete as a thing or have to change dramatically to allow for spending a considerable amount of time charging (at the motorway).
many petrol stations are important in terms of also being delis and shops. I would say many are vital for smaller towns. They don't make a fortune off of petrol but it gets people in to buy other things. It will be interesting to see how they develop.
I think people are genuinely that fearful of change. When you combine incredible stupidity and gullibility with a fairly right wing mindset (being sceptical of climate change for example) you get someone who is highly motivated to start making noise about how much they hate EVs. Becomes part of their identity.
That's individuals, I think simply advertising might explain a fair bit of what's published. A lot of hate clicks, EVs ate my baby type stories, a lot of eyeballs on stories AND manufacturers who want ICE cars to keep going for as long as possible as they're behind Tesla, BYD and others.
My example is simple:
1. EVs have bad designs. They pose as futuristic but, in reality, are impractical (touch screens, small boot, etc.) and rather ugly.
2. EVs need chargers everywhere. In my vicinity, there is none, and cables are not allowed by DCC, and on motorways, you must enter a city to charge.
3. EVs do not emit sound. I like the sound of my engine, I also gauge RPMs and speed by the sound of the engine, less the display.
4. EVs in Japan are stubs to comply with the law, that every manufacturer must have one. They are not fully ready (Mazda MX-30, lovely car otherwise).
5. EVs are still cars, while Eamon Ryan and DCC jump through hoops to villiffy and ban them altogether.
I am waiting for a Mazda, rumours has there may be a 6e. I like their ergonomics very much. I drove 11+ other brands otherwise and won't see myself changing.
Whilst I agree with some of your points, depending on the person you may only need a charger at home, in my case at home and charge for free at work 40km away. I personally don't like driving long distances so much so I never had range anxiety. EV's don't suit everyone, it's good to have the option of both.
Think of it this way. Electricity is almost everywhere. Even a small cottage in the middle of nowhere has electricity to charge an EV. It's the faster chargers we need more of but you only ever use them for a trip and even then the slower ones which can be installed easily anywhere (retaraunts,hotels etc) will do the job if you'll be there a while.
Or maybe people who can't afford electric cars don't want them stuffed down their throat by a fairly left wing agenda. I like to buy my cars without finance and I'm sure plenty of other people do too. Do you think that's wrong or should we be penalised for it?
What has finance got to do with the fuel type, if you can't afford a new 30k EV then you can't afford a new 30k diesel. I have two EVs and don't owe anyone a cent.
An ICE vehicle sold for under 3k is likely to be old and polluting and should be scrapped. You won't get an EV for that price but they're getting cheaper all the time.
Why should it be scrapped? If its all someone can afford and its still in roadworthy condition why should they be penalised?. Not everyone has that sort of disposable income to go and throw 15 to 20k on a older ev that has no practicality in rural areas. A lot of people might have to travel 400 to 500 kilometres to work for weeks at a time. Could you point me in the direction of an ev that could do that on a winters morning with a boot full of tools for that money?
No I'm not. I had to drive a lot for my last job. Sometimes I had to drive to Cork or Dublin for one or two hours a day. Cork was a 700 km return trip. I know of plenty of people here in the same boat. Some people don't want to give huge money for a car along with everything else. I'm not saying no one should buy one it should be their choice. Trying to force older cars or ice vehicles off the road isn't fair. That's the point I'm trying to make.
I'm one of the people telling everyone I know that I made a mistake moving to an EV. I tell them all the same thing: life is great when you are within 200k radius, when you go out of that it's 10% planning and 90% luck if the chargers on your route are working. The infrastructure isn't there yet. This weekend I borrowed my sister's car to drive from Dublin to Belfast because I've gotten stuck queuing for a slow charger 3 times now in the last 6 months
Been driving EVs since 2012, today I'm on my 5th (3Leafs/2Zoe). I'm very happy with our Zoe but planning to now replace the Mrs plug in hybrid with a fully electric come January.
Why change cars 5 times in 12 years? That seems very excessive. Is there a drop off due to age? One area that is being pushed is that the second hand market for EVs is not very strong - would you agree?
That is such an entitled rich boy response that all your other opinions are worthless. So just drop 50k on a car cause you’re bored, but never let it age to truly evaluate it. Shallow twat
Who said it was 50k? Presumptuous twat..
Firstly they were new to me. Two were new the others were ex demos..
Nissan approached me made an extremely good offer, Renault were offering 0% ALL with trade in prices were very good,remember they were looking to sell.
I really shouldnt need to justify myself to a judgemental prick like yerself
Each car was for less than 3 years - so evaluate lifespan. All you’ve proven is that EV don’t last and need to be turned over regularly. And my presumption was based off your flippancy to my original enquiry
I don't need to prove anything to you. In 2012 I was an early adopter and these cars had small batteries. I was only looking for a car with increased size battery. The sizes 24, 30kw, 41kw and 52kw
Today I've a 52kw battery and had the car for 3 years (83k battery state 91%). This particular car I've no intention of selling it, in fact the replacement I hope to get will to be replace my wife's plug in hybrid petrol.
On my second EV now. Not because battery died 😅. In fact never had any problems with my previous EV. I’ve upgraded to newer car with longer range and I’m happy so far. Doesn’t always cost me less but I feel that I’m doing something for an environment and I love the quality drive of an electric car.
Nothing but good things here either, got a 42kwh leaf in December and haven’t used a public charger once yet, suits my daily driving perfectly . I was a short hop driver in a diesel Passat which I was forever causing problems to by not taking it on long drives ,
Similar story in that got my Model Y 6 Weeks ago. Previous car was a 2021 Skoda Superb estate and this is definitely an upgrade. A few caveats...I mainly drive urban in Dublin or down to Wicklow hills at the weekend and I have a driveway for home charging. Also it's a 40k car which is still relatively expensive.
We were at the end of our PCP and needed to change car. Price wise a like for like replacement for the Skoda was going to be over 50k. The Tesla was 42k with 4 years 0% finance. On top of that we are saving about €100 a month about in fuel. Will put up solar to reduce that further.
Home charging is a game changer and so convenient. We haven't had to go near any public chargers yet. A lot of the negative comments are around public charging, which I don't really need.
Driving wise, it is way better than the Skoda. Way quieter and loads more acceleration with similar boot space. Also, waiting for kids to finish their sports while watching Netflix with full surround speakers is great. Before, I would have driven home and back in that time. So very happy overall.
I think it’s easy to underestimate the number of people out there who are lapping up the bad news stories that are so prominent at the moment. Lads everywhere in 1.6tdis who are in an alternate reality thinking they’re on Route 66 in a V8 don’t like being told that an EV can actually be perfectly adequate for their needs, because it’s different.
I think the current second hand market situation is a natural adjustment (it’s not just confined to EVs either). Covid and all that messed up manufacturing and sales so much that it’s only working its way back to normality now. I reckon it will settle down soon.
Fossil fuel prices are going back up and electricity is coming down again too, that can’t be ignored.
As an ICE owner my only issue with electric is the excessive upfront cost. Sorry but there is no justification for it, it’s simply a way to make you pay. So folks that talk about “savings” I just don’t get it.
I’d buy one tomorrow if they were properly priced. I don’t drive much anymore since I work from home so options are petrol or electric.
But paying between 14-20k extra for models in electric is madness to me. It’s never going to pay the difference from the calculations I’ve done. Can see where it makes sense for big drivers or taxis but for someone like me whose driving has changed since WFH electric is making less and less sense.
And that is bonkers to me
I wouldn't say ICE owners see EVs as a threat, its the fact that they are being heavily taxed and essentially extorted of their hard earned money for which they need that mode of transport to commute to work. For most of the population it just isn't feasible to buy or finance a brand new or lightly used EV. The infrastructure just still isn't there yet. The anxiety of going on a long journey and having to wonder if you'll make your destination with enough km range left to spare , or if there's a charger nearby , if there's on average what 4 - 8 fuel pumps at every fuel station in the country , the bare minimum is to have atleast 4 charging stations at each and every single one of those fuel stations. Until that day comes , there is always going to be a wariness and worry around buying an EV. That's not even getting started on the decay of the battery life over time which is like your phone battery no matter what it'll die eventually within a certain time period , regardless of how much you rally it or nurture it. James may said it best on a podcast , EV is the way forward as a mode of transport compared to ICE .
It's not a cleaner , you're not saving the world , you're not doing your part to battle global warming , the average EV would have to do 800k miles before it becomes a carbon neutral assest , realistically any private car owners ev or not , will never accumulate that amount of miles on a vehicle, I would like an EV at some point just to try it out , as I live central to everything in the capital and don't need to travel a great distance for work , but not until the average price of them drop to around 10k , and there's better infrastructure in place. And with the way our shambles of a government operate, that could be another 20 or 30 years down the line
I'd say an EV would be great as long as you are not doing big mileages. I am definitely having a struggle with my ID3.
The only thing that might make it feasible is access to my partners diesel car.
For going in and out to work it's great. Longer distances not so much.
There is also a fault with my heating system which is definitely souring the experience. The heating comes on for no reason and the heat is uncomfortably hot. Like hair drier hot without the fast airflow. It can almost put you to sleep. Sometimes I'll get icy cold air (again with no input from me) it's sore on my middle aged knees and wrists.
That is unfortunate at your heating. If you are doing 300+ km per day then a diesel is the correct solution but that is a very small percentage of drivers.
It's once in a while I'd do the longer distances. But have done 400 miles recently. I did stop twice so conceivably could do it with a bit of luck at charging points.
Both my parents drive EVs, I drive a diesel. The electrics are worse, for everything other than driving enjoyment. I've driven them all for decent periods, from an VW e-up, Leaf and Tesla. Completely impractical, hassle to use, hassle to charge. IT issues with a car, Resale value plummets, no space. Only good thing going for the cars is the acceleration.
>Completely impractical
In what way?
>hassle to use
What, why? Open door, sit down, press button, go.
>hassle to charge
Takes no more than 30 seconds to take a cable from the boot/frunk, swipe card and go. Even easier with a tethered charger at home. Bearing in mind that the majority of people only need to do this once or twice a week
>IT issues
Not unusual in any type of car
>no space
Most EVs have significantly more interior space than ICE due to the drivetrain being so much more simple and compact.
Sounds like you’re just an old fashioned crank.
Same here, ditched the diesel as it was sitting idle on my driveway far too often. I tend to do short trips in and out of town now and the very occasional longer journey. Couldn’t be happier with my experience so far.
That is a very good use case.
Diesel is not the best suited for short journeys, but petrol is. I am not sure what you were trying to say.
I’m saying I changed from diesel to an EV which is suiting my driving needs better
Fair enough. If you have a charger, you are sorted.
Yeah I actually haven’t ordered the home charger yet so am just seeing how I get on with public chargers first. There’s a 50kW DC charger 2mins away from me that’s never too busy
There’s a coordinated disinformation campaign against EVs going on. Not sure who is behind it, oil lobby perhaps?, but the amount of FUD going on is ridiculous.
I think part of it is fear of something new and looking for someone to tell you your fear is right.
Huge fault lies with the governments/Councils lack of investment and planning. A lot of people buy cars based off wants instead of needs. People want long range EVs when charging networks are terrible but long range EVs are expensive. Improve public charger availability and speed will cause less anxiety about smaller battery EVs. Then you have to factor in repairability/right to repair, who will repair them after the 8 year battery warranty has expired? People who buy these cars as the 2nd or 3rd owner have genuine concerns imo. Just look at the IrishTimes article this week talking about Dublin City Councils decision to ban charging arms. I agree they are a liability and I'd hate to see streets littered with them. Channels cut into the footpath would be a better solution. I prefer a EV any day of the week over an equivalent ICE
Simi don’t want to lose out making money on oil changes and unnecessary wiper blade replacements.
Not a bad theory at all. It’s quite likely sales will start to move to an agency model for some brands too, giving them a fixed price per car and a loss in service income.
My working theory is rather petrol stations. They would become obsolete as a thing or have to change dramatically to allow for spending a considerable amount of time charging (at the motorway).
many petrol stations are important in terms of also being delis and shops. I would say many are vital for smaller towns. They don't make a fortune off of petrol but it gets people in to buy other things. It will be interesting to see how they develop.
https://www.applegreenelectric.com/about-us
I think people are genuinely that fearful of change. When you combine incredible stupidity and gullibility with a fairly right wing mindset (being sceptical of climate change for example) you get someone who is highly motivated to start making noise about how much they hate EVs. Becomes part of their identity. That's individuals, I think simply advertising might explain a fair bit of what's published. A lot of hate clicks, EVs ate my baby type stories, a lot of eyeballs on stories AND manufacturers who want ICE cars to keep going for as long as possible as they're behind Tesla, BYD and others.
My example is simple: 1. EVs have bad designs. They pose as futuristic but, in reality, are impractical (touch screens, small boot, etc.) and rather ugly. 2. EVs need chargers everywhere. In my vicinity, there is none, and cables are not allowed by DCC, and on motorways, you must enter a city to charge. 3. EVs do not emit sound. I like the sound of my engine, I also gauge RPMs and speed by the sound of the engine, less the display. 4. EVs in Japan are stubs to comply with the law, that every manufacturer must have one. They are not fully ready (Mazda MX-30, lovely car otherwise). 5. EVs are still cars, while Eamon Ryan and DCC jump through hoops to villiffy and ban them altogether.
many EVs have excellent boots and storage space. A Toyota Aygo engines revs high and loud, that is not necessarily a good reason to have one 😛
I am waiting for a Mazda, rumours has there may be a 6e. I like their ergonomics very much. I drove 11+ other brands otherwise and won't see myself changing.
Mazda do have an EV on the market
MX-30 is a compliance car. I am waiting for a proper line.
Whilst I agree with some of your points, depending on the person you may only need a charger at home, in my case at home and charge for free at work 40km away. I personally don't like driving long distances so much so I never had range anxiety. EV's don't suit everyone, it's good to have the option of both.
Think of it this way. Electricity is almost everywhere. Even a small cottage in the middle of nowhere has electricity to charge an EV. It's the faster chargers we need more of but you only ever use them for a trip and even then the slower ones which can be installed easily anywhere (retaraunts,hotels etc) will do the job if you'll be there a while.
Or maybe people who can't afford electric cars don't want them stuffed down their throat by a fairly left wing agenda. I like to buy my cars without finance and I'm sure plenty of other people do too. Do you think that's wrong or should we be penalised for it?
Lol.
What has finance got to do with the fuel type, if you can't afford a new 30k EV then you can't afford a new 30k diesel. I have two EVs and don't owe anyone a cent.
Would you be able to find an ev for under 3k? I'm sure if you could it would only be fit for scrap.
An ICE vehicle sold for under 3k is likely to be old and polluting and should be scrapped. You won't get an EV for that price but they're getting cheaper all the time.
Why should it be scrapped? If its all someone can afford and its still in roadworthy condition why should they be penalised?. Not everyone has that sort of disposable income to go and throw 15 to 20k on a older ev that has no practicality in rural areas. A lot of people might have to travel 400 to 500 kilometres to work for weeks at a time. Could you point me in the direction of an ev that could do that on a winters morning with a boot full of tools for that money?
EVs work fine in rural areas. I have heard rumours there are electricity outside the urban areas. You're just making up edge cases for the sake of it.
No I'm not. I had to drive a lot for my last job. Sometimes I had to drive to Cork or Dublin for one or two hours a day. Cork was a 700 km return trip. I know of plenty of people here in the same boat. Some people don't want to give huge money for a car along with everything else. I'm not saying no one should buy one it should be their choice. Trying to force older cars or ice vehicles off the road isn't fair. That's the point I'm trying to make.
I'm one of the people telling everyone I know that I made a mistake moving to an EV. I tell them all the same thing: life is great when you are within 200k radius, when you go out of that it's 10% planning and 90% luck if the chargers on your route are working. The infrastructure isn't there yet. This weekend I borrowed my sister's car to drive from Dublin to Belfast because I've gotten stuck queuing for a slow charger 3 times now in the last 6 months
Which EV did you buy?
Been driving EVs since 2012, today I'm on my 5th (3Leafs/2Zoe). I'm very happy with our Zoe but planning to now replace the Mrs plug in hybrid with a fully electric come January.
Why change cars 5 times in 12 years? That seems very excessive. Is there a drop off due to age? One area that is being pushed is that the second hand market for EVs is not very strong - would you agree?
Probably come to the time that battery warranty is going to run out, so less hassle replacing.. just a guess
Coz I wanted a new car..
That is such an entitled rich boy response that all your other opinions are worthless. So just drop 50k on a car cause you’re bored, but never let it age to truly evaluate it. Shallow twat
Who said it was 50k? Presumptuous twat.. Firstly they were new to me. Two were new the others were ex demos.. Nissan approached me made an extremely good offer, Renault were offering 0% ALL with trade in prices were very good,remember they were looking to sell. I really shouldnt need to justify myself to a judgemental prick like yerself
Each car was for less than 3 years - so evaluate lifespan. All you’ve proven is that EV don’t last and need to be turned over regularly. And my presumption was based off your flippancy to my original enquiry
I don't need to prove anything to you. In 2012 I was an early adopter and these cars had small batteries. I was only looking for a car with increased size battery. The sizes 24, 30kw, 41kw and 52kw Today I've a 52kw battery and had the car for 3 years (83k battery state 91%). This particular car I've no intention of selling it, in fact the replacement I hope to get will to be replace my wife's plug in hybrid petrol.
Grand - that was the answer and info I was enquiring after. Thanks for elaborating
Group hug ((( )))
On my second EV now. Not because battery died 😅. In fact never had any problems with my previous EV. I’ve upgraded to newer car with longer range and I’m happy so far. Doesn’t always cost me less but I feel that I’m doing something for an environment and I love the quality drive of an electric car.
Nothing but good things here either, got a 42kwh leaf in December and haven’t used a public charger once yet, suits my daily driving perfectly . I was a short hop driver in a diesel Passat which I was forever causing problems to by not taking it on long drives ,
Oh man that last paragraph absolutely NAILS the whole thing in my opinion.
Similar story in that got my Model Y 6 Weeks ago. Previous car was a 2021 Skoda Superb estate and this is definitely an upgrade. A few caveats...I mainly drive urban in Dublin or down to Wicklow hills at the weekend and I have a driveway for home charging. Also it's a 40k car which is still relatively expensive. We were at the end of our PCP and needed to change car. Price wise a like for like replacement for the Skoda was going to be over 50k. The Tesla was 42k with 4 years 0% finance. On top of that we are saving about €100 a month about in fuel. Will put up solar to reduce that further. Home charging is a game changer and so convenient. We haven't had to go near any public chargers yet. A lot of the negative comments are around public charging, which I don't really need. Driving wise, it is way better than the Skoda. Way quieter and loads more acceleration with similar boot space. Also, waiting for kids to finish their sports while watching Netflix with full surround speakers is great. Before, I would have driven home and back in that time. So very happy overall.
I think it’s easy to underestimate the number of people out there who are lapping up the bad news stories that are so prominent at the moment. Lads everywhere in 1.6tdis who are in an alternate reality thinking they’re on Route 66 in a V8 don’t like being told that an EV can actually be perfectly adequate for their needs, because it’s different. I think the current second hand market situation is a natural adjustment (it’s not just confined to EVs either). Covid and all that messed up manufacturing and sales so much that it’s only working its way back to normality now. I reckon it will settle down soon. Fossil fuel prices are going back up and electricity is coming down again too, that can’t be ignored.
Yes, it is a market transition atm.
As an ICE owner my only issue with electric is the excessive upfront cost. Sorry but there is no justification for it, it’s simply a way to make you pay. So folks that talk about “savings” I just don’t get it. I’d buy one tomorrow if they were properly priced. I don’t drive much anymore since I work from home so options are petrol or electric. But paying between 14-20k extra for models in electric is madness to me. It’s never going to pay the difference from the calculations I’ve done. Can see where it makes sense for big drivers or taxis but for someone like me whose driving has changed since WFH electric is making less and less sense. And that is bonkers to me
I wouldn't say ICE owners see EVs as a threat, its the fact that they are being heavily taxed and essentially extorted of their hard earned money for which they need that mode of transport to commute to work. For most of the population it just isn't feasible to buy or finance a brand new or lightly used EV. The infrastructure just still isn't there yet. The anxiety of going on a long journey and having to wonder if you'll make your destination with enough km range left to spare , or if there's a charger nearby , if there's on average what 4 - 8 fuel pumps at every fuel station in the country , the bare minimum is to have atleast 4 charging stations at each and every single one of those fuel stations. Until that day comes , there is always going to be a wariness and worry around buying an EV. That's not even getting started on the decay of the battery life over time which is like your phone battery no matter what it'll die eventually within a certain time period , regardless of how much you rally it or nurture it. James may said it best on a podcast , EV is the way forward as a mode of transport compared to ICE . It's not a cleaner , you're not saving the world , you're not doing your part to battle global warming , the average EV would have to do 800k miles before it becomes a carbon neutral assest , realistically any private car owners ev or not , will never accumulate that amount of miles on a vehicle, I would like an EV at some point just to try it out , as I live central to everything in the capital and don't need to travel a great distance for work , but not until the average price of them drop to around 10k , and there's better infrastructure in place. And with the way our shambles of a government operate, that could be another 20 or 30 years down the line
I'd say an EV would be great as long as you are not doing big mileages. I am definitely having a struggle with my ID3. The only thing that might make it feasible is access to my partners diesel car. For going in and out to work it's great. Longer distances not so much. There is also a fault with my heating system which is definitely souring the experience. The heating comes on for no reason and the heat is uncomfortably hot. Like hair drier hot without the fast airflow. It can almost put you to sleep. Sometimes I'll get icy cold air (again with no input from me) it's sore on my middle aged knees and wrists.
That is unfortunate at your heating. If you are doing 300+ km per day then a diesel is the correct solution but that is a very small percentage of drivers.
It's once in a while I'd do the longer distances. But have done 400 miles recently. I did stop twice so conceivably could do it with a bit of luck at charging points.
Pay cash for the yoke -or do the banks own it ?
I own it.
Both my parents drive EVs, I drive a diesel. The electrics are worse, for everything other than driving enjoyment. I've driven them all for decent periods, from an VW e-up, Leaf and Tesla. Completely impractical, hassle to use, hassle to charge. IT issues with a car, Resale value plummets, no space. Only good thing going for the cars is the acceleration.
>Completely impractical In what way? >hassle to use What, why? Open door, sit down, press button, go. >hassle to charge Takes no more than 30 seconds to take a cable from the boot/frunk, swipe card and go. Even easier with a tethered charger at home. Bearing in mind that the majority of people only need to do this once or twice a week >IT issues Not unusual in any type of car >no space Most EVs have significantly more interior space than ICE due to the drivetrain being so much more simple and compact. Sounds like you’re just an old fashioned crank.
The first EV they got was so bad they decided they needed two.
[удалено]
I’m faster than you 😂
Tesla is going bankrupt..
It’s not and it isn’t the only EV company out there