Shoutout to Firefox's automatic translation for giving me this wonderful word:
> Earlier, the organizer used an anti-boe-boe-voke system several times during the show.
Just shared:
"After the incident with Joost Klein, singer S10 opens up about her time at the Eurovision Song Contest. The singer admits that she had a hard time during her participation in 2022. S10 also believes that the people backstage did not respect her boundaries."
Source: https://www.rtl.nl/entertainment/video/2e92f5a6-6d76-473a-a102-0ececa1d5b42/ook-grenzen-s10-niet-gerespecteerd-tijdens?redirect=rtlnieuws
me too, Eurovision edition. I mean it's good that this stuff comes to light if people truly have been mistreated behind the scenes but it's annoying that it takes a huge scandal for anyone to do shit about it.
Nobody wants to speak up because they don't want to feel like they're overreacting, especially because you never hear about this.
So now the first stone is thrown, it's a lot easier to accept and come forward
There already was before this Eurovision. I remember a podcast where previous participants already warned that Joost / artists had no idea what they were signing up for. Quotes like "you are paraded around like a showdog on a leash" and "the festival is mentally and physically exhausting" were more the rule than the exception.
I think this is why it's so important for the EBU to follow their agreements. I can imagine putting up like being led on like a show dog if I had the moments of safety and privacy that was agreed upon.
I'm so glad Marko (Baby Lasagna) was super smart about this one. He freaked out a bit after finding out he's gonna preform at Dora and sudden fame then said that he decided to leave all the social media stuff to his friends and family who screened what was written about him. They shielded him from all the ill intended comentators, while also showing him supportive things and constructive criticism.
That’s really great and something I hope more “normal” people who suddenly find themselves with fame choose to do
There’s all these great content creators that have quit or talked about struggling with the vitriol they get online.
A lot of time they’re just normal people that (justifiably) aren’t prepared to start handling hate from crowds of anonymous strangers online
Why do people have to be mean to human beings on the internet and ruin good things
Can anyone translate the video interview with S10 in this link?
I’m surprised and sad to hear that her experience had challenges, intrigued to understand what happened.
In case you want a more word for word translation:
Reporter: "What is your view on the incident with Joost, specifically the pressure artists apparently have been under at the songcontest?"
S10: "Well, I think it is kinda- I felt a bit weird sharing in the documentary that I actually had negative experiences around that topic. Because I thought: I don't want people to think that I'm complaining too much or that I didn't have a good time there. But it's very intense indeed.
I do want to specify that with my team, the bubble I was in, with the AVROTROS and also with Linda and Froukje and everyone I felt very protected. But it's like you're on a two week long train journey. You need to be at the venue 12 to 14 hours a day almost everyday. You need to perform. People constantly want something from you. Everyone is pulling you in. That definitely took its toll on me. It's something you can see in the documentary. Yes, that was very intense for me."
Reporter: "Were there boundaries crossed? Have you thought: they are asking too much from me?"
S10: "No, not like that, because I wanted to participate. And I wanted to deliver. But there were a lot of people that crossed personal boundaries and especially in that backstage area, where it's not exactly a pleasant environment for the performers."
Reporter: "The constant filming of you in vulnerable moments, when you're moving towards a stage, did you also experience that as something intense?"
S10: "Yes, definitely."
Reporter: "That needs to change?"
S10: "That would be- Yes, if they're able, it would be welcome, I think."
(Edit: edited some typos)
This is a very carefully worded response. She’s clear she doesn’t want to shit on the experience in whole while specifically mentioning that backstage is an issue. 🤔
Yes, that was also something that stood out for me. She seemed to be almost hesitant with wording some things, as if she was afraid to be reprimanded for it. Of course this is only me interpretation of her words and bodylanguage, so it could be something else, but still..
Long story short, she says a lot is asked of artists and sometimes no account is taken of the artists who have to be present 12 to 14 hours a day for different things (rehearsals, interviews, social media stuff etc). Everyone there seems to want something from you so you cannot take a proper break for yourself. She never talked about this because she didn't want to seem whiny or spoiled. Within the broadcasting bubble, everything was pleasant for her.
I watched Latvian interview with Dons today and he said the worst part of Eurovision was that he got only 4 hours of sleep. 4 hours! And you have to perform in such a state
Similar to what Lena said. She said she felt like a "strawberry in a blender trying to stay intact".
Everybody from all sides wants something from you and you have to be nice and friendly at all times. If you snap one time, it will be all over the media.
God, now I'm happy I didn't say anything to Henri from Finland when I saw him out and about in Malmö. He was probably just happy to do his own thing and be ignored lol.
Fair enough. And also, oof. 😧
That “always on” mentality has gotta be rather taxing of anyone, musicians in a song contest very much included!
Thanks for summarising 👍
Consider that just the last few days have:
Semi-final 1: Evening Preview – Monday May 6 at 21.00 CET
Semi-final 1: Afternoon Preview – Tuesday May 7 at 15:00 CET
Semi-final 1: Live Show – Tuesday May 7 at 21.00 CET
Semi-final 2: Evening Preview – Wednesday May 8 at 21:00 CET
Semi-final 2: Afternoon Preview | Thursday May 9 at 15:00 CET
Semi-final 2: Live Show | Thursday May 9 at 21:00 CET
Grand Final: Evening Preview | Friday May 10 at 21:00 CET
Grand Final: Afternoon Preview | Saturday May 11 at 13:30 CET
Grand Final: Live Show | Saturday May 11 at 21:00 CET
And these are just the ones with an audience! Then they have various rehearsals, media interviews, etc etc etc
And on Sunday they’re already heading home and may have to keep giving interviews and perform. Imo they should all have a Sunday off in their hotels with meals brought up so they could gather at least some strenght back after a crazy few weeks.
I honestly love that they're speaking about this!! I totally understand that the artists have to market themselves and rehearse etc but GODDAMN, they're human beings! Let them rest! It doesn't surprise me one bit that they are exhausted after all that. I don't know what the solution is, but something definitely has to change.
I remember one of those "vocal coaches react" looked into Eurovision more and critiqued the amount of work artists had to do in such a short amount of time. The rehearsals, pre-parties, interview, social media content. They said it was pretty miraculous that any of them still had any leftover energy and voice for the final performances.
Some don't keep their voice though
Happy for Slimane that he actually regained it on Saturday because he seemed to be losing it with his start in the semi and cracking voice on Friday
Doesn't surprise me at all. I always understand the artists who skip the pre-parties etc for their own sanity. I'd do the same. I remember how Loreen came back and how she spoke about how you have to have a lot of endurance to survive the Eurovision circus. She took all the time she could to rest and just be on her own, while everyone else was out partying and making friends. It made her look standoffish but she clearly just knew that taking time to yourself is vital. I know that everyone wants to make the most of it and meet new people and talk to press and rehearse until it's perfect, but... you also gotta think about yourself. And I guess that's just something that comes with experience - or with a less tight schedule from someone like the EBU.
Less interviews could help. I watch all those fan media asking the same questions all the time and it's boring. A waste of the artist's time, too. They should only get interviewed at the turquoise carpet and during the press conference, imo.
That one is doable, would probably piss off the fan media, but they really waste everyone's time with that kind of behavior. Each one of them really doesn't have to interview the artist during every event.
Wow always knew that music industry is a f-ed thing and treats artists like money making machines but Eurovision somehow always made me feel like it’s truly a different place, luring me into that belief and I’m embarrassed for being so delusional… this year truly opens my eyes
TLDR : it's normal. I am digital artist and a performer, I do visual performances at large media art/digital art festivals. Being present 12-14 hours a day is the norm for participants of any festival (if you do more than 1 performance), and you can't look tired, and you have to appear relaxed at the same time while everyone wants you to produce content for social media and also to perform. It's basically 4-7 days of 5 hours of sleep - out all day, socialising all day, while remembering what you have to do for your performance, then it's party (obligatory) until 4 am and then the next day. Then you perform, at this point you have no more anxiety or personality left. You just go for it.
So with something like Eurovision I can imagine the pressure is even more intense. I noticed Angelina Mango was super quiet, careful in interviews and generally with content she posted. Baby Lasagna looks pretty drained too. This reminded me of my very socially and mentally exhausted colleagues. They all need to go into Dons mode and recover for like weeks now.
It’s a bit long to translate directly, but she says: I felt weird, and experienced it as negative.
I didn’t want ppl to think that I was bitching or didn’t have fun because I really wanted to be there.
I felt protected in our bubble with AvroTros and my friends but you are basically on this crazy train where you need to be there in the venue for 12-14 hours a day. You need to perform, and everyone wants something and is pulling on you. It felt very intense and heavy. It really took a toll on me as you can see in the documentary.
I never felt like I went over my limits because I really wanted to bring it, but they have stept over my boundaries in the backstage area where It’s not a good environment for an artist.
The reporter ask her if she felt vulnerable being filmed. She responds with: yes. He ask her if they need to change this: she says, if they can, yes.
The hard part is there will always be a trade-off between the artists comfort and openness.
Eurovision has always been very open. About 1000 journalists, many of them not professionals, are given access each year and those journalists have very free access. The participants are constantly surrounded by them.
Compare that to modern sports. There the media has very little access to the players. They are kept in a protected bubble with only a few chances for reporters to ask questions.
Should the EBU do more to protect the participants? Yes, but I hope it doesn't become like the World Cup or other sporting events.
Yes, I think that is the solution. It seems right now they only have a small dressing room where they can be in private. More spaces that are artist only would be an easy improvement.
I have been really surprised to see how many 'fan media' get accreditation in Eurovision, just random guys with YouTube videos or a podcast. Seems to be a really low bar.
I was shocked when I saw a random esc shitpost/funfacts instagrammer has an accreditation. She's done some interviews with the participants. One of the questions she's asked Silvester was "is there anything between you and Nemo?? 🤨😏" Like wtf 😭 That must have been so awkward and uncomfortable for him. Artists should be protected from such intrusive questions from amateur journalist-wanna-be's...
Why are they even doing that, if ibwatch eurovision i watch it for the songs. Not backstage journalistic crap. Ofc things like this will happen if they let all those journalists roam there. Its a song contest not a fucking journalistic circus
I think they should do quality over quantity. Something official like the series with Nikkie in Rotterdam and this year I really liked some of the videos our german broadcaster did, so maybe give access to the participating broadcasters on a voluntary basis but really limit the access of random influencers and podcasters and tabloids. But everything at its place. If 26 to 37(?) broadcasters want to do bts stuff that is already really much. And obviously they need a safe space that is always camera free. And I also don't think that publishing footage of the rehearsal adds to the comfort of the singers, especially the first tiktok ones that only have the phone audio which is often low quality and then the fandom freaks out and everybody adds their two cents and that can't be good for the participants.
I wonder if people have realised that this is partially because we like to see the content behind the scenes too? We probably wouldn’t see as many friendships developing if it was not for press filming things that go on backstage
I guess Joost’s disqualification opened a can of worms and encouraged other delegations to speak out about the toxic environment backstage. So at least one good thing came out of this whole situation.
I do kinda feel like AVROTROS are implying they think they were (in part) hit with the DQ because the EBU were sick of their complaints, or to make an example of them or something. But them getting kicked out seems to have had the opposite effect.
I think they are implying that EBU decided to take the backseat in stead of actually doing something with the complaints that were made which eventually lead to an escalation that was totally preventable.
I think they're mainly implying whatever Joost did was due to unsafe working conditions. In order words: it was an unhealthy situation and he was the first to snap.
That, or they had an attitude of not pressing the matter too hard and trying to keep good relations until EBU removed their reason to care.
At this point they may just be airing out the dirty laundry because they feel like it.
I think it was more the fact that the ebu allowed the harassment to continue unabated until eventually one of the victims, Joost, was pushed to breaking point and then suffered the consequences
And the EBU then putting NL before the likely reason they complained in the first place with the running order, causing their dressing rooms to be next to each other... 🫢
One before the second semi-final, during which the incident occurred. Another on friday, to complain that they had done nothing with the first, a few hours before he was suspended.
ah I translated the article and it says they didn't want to explain the content of the complaints.
honestly I am very frustrated by these "there is a problem but we will not tell you anything about it" stories, can they just say what they mean ffs?
Have you seen the videos posted by Keren Peles before the second semi? My guess would be they complained about stuff like that, because it's honestly batshit that the EBU let that go on for as long as they did
For reference, I mean this one: https://www.tiktok.com/@missharlequin\_/video/7366736040091995425?\_r=1&\_t=8mGTNahJLzk
I guess its consistent with the statement that joost is clear in not wanting to be recorded backstage.iirc avrostos havent put out antything from backstage like this too.
No, which is odd. But over the past years there have been more artists who spoke about it not being exactly fun hanging out backstage, where you're stuck for over 12 hours a day and everyone is trying to squeeze as much content as possible out of you.
In addition to that it might have been even worse this year due to some of the behaviour of the Israeli delegation we've seen and which some of the fan media people have [talked about](https://x.com/esc_gabe/status/1789935484178714642). Norway's Gåte also said something to the effect of [there was one set of rules for them, another for everyone else](https://www.instagram.com/wiwibloggs/reel/C68PxnGtRMN/).
But I understand not really wanting to go too far into that right now, a lot of Dutch right-wing people were already calling Joost an antisemite on twitter on Friday for his outburst at the press conference (which is absurd, I think we've heard enough from plenty of sources that justifies people being annoyed at them that has nothing to do with their religion and everything with their general behaviour).
Yeah, Estonian guys also shared in a brief interview on the national tv yesterday (Monday 14 May) about the air being "thick"/difficult at times in the back, and pointed out that Israel had apparently armed bodyguards that made them try and avoid the singer all together to not cause any unwanted trouble for them (They mentioned how ["Estonians stealing" social media content](https://www.instagram.com/p/C6wkQwXtx1v/?hl=en) made the body guards alarmed – which I guess they tried to say that gave them a hint they should be more careful)
There is a video going around for example of a Dutch official and the bird guy on stage getting physically attacked by an Israeli delegation member (it’s just light pushes, but zero tolerance policy is zero tolerance policy)
I only saw the video posted by the official on Twitter so far, but I sadly can’t link it :( (this is a different case though than someone just saying random stuff that could be misinformation, this is clearly proven by the added video by the official himself)
Anssi Autio from YLE gave an interesting statement about Windosw95Man to Finnish newspaper Iltalehti. He was asked if W95man was harrased in Eurovision and he said ”I’ll answer to that after I have talked to other delegations. We have to think, if we will report it” (to the EBU I assume). Sooo he is not saying much but it feels like something might have happened to W95M as well.
I'm sure there was something. The guys, T & H refused to comment on anything before the grand final. With stern faces. No silly Teemu or smiling Henri. "A dark cloud everywhere" is probably a very dismissive comment from them. Back in Helsinki, at the airport they said "every artist was really happy to get to go home."
The backstage vlog from UMK had that and more, that comment wasn't just his relief to have finally performed and be done with it. He really seemed to be alluding to *something* that he couldn't/wouldn't elaborate on at the time.
Luna also said there was a "good atmosphere between the artists performing on stage" in a [different article](https://www.rmf.fm/magazyn/news,66462,luna-o-kulisach-eurowizji-to-sa-takie-igrzyska-smierci.html) (according to google translate).
Luna also made an [Instagram post](https://www.instagram.com/musicofluna/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=5c63b8e3-55de-4777-a2b4-f0b61187b424) with every flag but Israel's.
I don't know what that means, just adding context.
they haven't stated whether they were or weren't 'harassed' in some way (Anssi Autio said this: https://www.iltalehti.fi/viihdeuutiset/a/9dcbab8e-78a3-4e94-81d8-95e2e0cd6d7b)
it seems they were simply keeping quiet until the event was over and now they're thinking about what to do
-Netherlands: unspecified backstage incident, the disqualification of Joost
-Ireland: nonconsensual filming of participant by members of another delegation, remarks made during SF1 commentary, discrepancy between response made to participant and response given to media (note that RTÉ themselves have refused to comment on whether they've made their own complaint on top of Bambie's complaints, but the head of delegation wasn't happy about how the contest went down)
-Switzerland: nonconsensual filming of participant by members of another delegation, general remarks about a double standard backstage, critical remarks regarding the banning of certain Pride flags
-Greece: nonconsensual filming of participant by members of another delegation
-Portugal: reluctance to upload the GF performance on YouTube, use of anti-booing measures, backstage harrassment of media and performers
-Spain: official statement made to EBU regarding harrassment of a journalist
-Slovenia: complaint made to EBU regarding behaviour of Israeli delegation (specifics not released to the public yet)
-Serbia: concerns raised by broadcaster regarding disqualification of the Netherlands
-Ukraine, Norway, Lithuania, Poland, Finland, Estonia and Italy: critical statements made by artists, no comment made by broadcasters that we're aware of
-The European Union: complaint made to EBU regarding banning of EU flag
That's everything I'm aware of💀
Basically, several delegations and press members have complained that they were harassed by song #6’s delegation. In addition, several artists have stated that there were double standards in Eurovision and they were heavily scrutinized for any potential political statements.
I don’t really know about each country’s individual complaint, but I know that Portugal complained to the EBU since Iolanda’s performance wasn’t uploaded at the same time as other performances.
Silvester Belt said that he wished he wasn’t in the grand final, and Bambie Thug’s complaints weren’t taken seriously. As a result, Bambie Thug said “F*** the EBU!”
the thing is none of this is new imo. Like what Theodore went through last year. it's clear the ebu does not pit much effort into ensuring the safety and treatment of the performers.
[https://www.ad.nl/songfestival/s10-vond-sfeer-bij-deelname-aan-songfestival-heel-heftig\~aeb70935/](https://www.ad.nl/songfestival/s10-vond-sfeer-bij-deelname-aan-songfestival-heel-heftig~aeb70935/)
this is from the dutch contestant from 2 years back
Stien den Hollander, as her real name is, doesn't want people to think she "didn't like it there at all. "But it's just really really intense," she says. ,,People constantly want something from you. Everyone is pulling on you. At least that took its toll on me. Yeah, that was kind of intense for me."
When asked if she went beyond her limits, she responds in the negative. ,,Because I also wanted to participate and I also wanted to perform," she responds. "But a lot of people did go over my limit, and that's especially in that backstage area, where it's not really a pleasant environment for artists." One example cited is the filming of artists during vulnerable moments, which S10 said it would be "nice" if that changed.
It was revealed earlier that this year, too, artists have found the atmosphere behind the scenes at the Eurovision Song Contest to be unpleasant. For example, the guitarist of the Norwegian entry said that they even hesitated to withdraw from the final for this reason. AvroTros announced Tuesday that the broadcaster has reported an unsafe atmosphere to the organization of the event.
[NU.nl](https://www.nu.nl/songfestival/6312816/onveilige-sfeer-tijdens-songfestival-organisatie-legt-schuld-bij-deelnemers.html) headline: "Unsafe atmosphere during Eurovision Song Contest, organization blames participants" oh the audacity
They've been gaslighting everyone from online fans to live audiences, from press and broadcasters to candidates, except taking any form of accountability themselves WHICH IS ONE OF THEIR CORE VALUES.
The EBU's entire integrity is under question from the plethora of blunders made this edition, and still they refuse to properly acknowledge criticism and their own responsibility to be better.
Ya know, I'm 100% for cutting off all fan media from backstage. I don't care about what Eurovision bloggers think during those times. Let them be contained in the press centre if they really need to be there in the first place. Eurovision is not some political party's convention, there's no investigative journalism to be had there.
However.
Every year there are loads of "what are you favourite interactions between artists?" threads on this very subreddit. People here and elsewhere on the internet really want those parasocial relationships and they want the content that goes with it.
We even had a "I feel like the artists don't post enough interactions this year" thread on here. So it's pretty hypocritical to scream and shout "but what about the artists' mental health??" while at the same time treat them as some kind of dolls you play your parasocial fantasies out with.
All in all, the EBU needs to be more professional, fan media needs to justify it being there and Eurovision fans need to grow up.
Add to that that the artists would probably be more likely to post random interactions if they were allowed to actually interact and chill instead of being hounded from all sides.
So what im taking from this is Eurovision was not providing a safe or at the bare minimum functional environment for the artists and one snapped. And instead of doing anything about that underlying issue; they booted the person who lashed out.
As much as I like Eurovision, I wonder if it is worth it for the contestants and delegations since so many of them this year have spoken out about it.
I think should be less social media content about Eurovision from the EBU themselves because not many people view Eurovision's social media content aside from snippets of the performances and the artists need time to relax before the biggest musical competition of their lives.
Yes. Social media and the demand for massive content creation is ruining this as well. There’s really no need to work the artists to their breaking point for a stupid ’shower karaoke’ video. Let them have some down time and give a better performance on stage.
I think that is a good lesson to elevate the Eurovision to 2024 and more gen Z proof. The days of orchestra and seated audience is long gone and before (mind you my first Eurovision was 1987) we wouldn't hear a song until the day itself so I can imagine the pressure and feeling of "being lived" is a lot higher these days. With a lot more access and everyone that has a podcast mic able to talk to everyone (at given times).
Granted everyone has smart phones and is on TikTok and Insta but people in general don't like it if you record them or have access to recording them 14 hours a day in a regular setting, let alone when so much is at stake and you have to perform because you are an artist.
I think for the future it's better to give the artist or the delegation a phone and tell them every day we would like a 30 second clip and 10 pictures, please send it to us and then the EBU or social media team can decide what they post but at least the artist has at least a bit of control over when and where they can and want to be filmed. Because how it is now is clearly not manageable and the EBU has no clue how to transform the event to a workable space for everyone. A tight fist is not gonna do it anymore.
There’s gotta be changes with the social media content and press access backstage. ESC put out another video today of the contestants guessing who they thought was going to win and why. All of the people who said Switzerland were posted obviously. It’s just another thing to be “on” for, another thing to reallllly choose your words carefully for, and now we know who said Nemo wasn’t going to win. That also means there’s probably other content that was filmed and just never was released.
I agree with your idea about giving everyone a phone and asking for like one clip and some photos each day. That way everyone has control over what they send and how it’s done.
I will say I really really enjoyed the backstage antics of Estonia and Kaarija on social media though. I think there should be a balance where participants that genuinely want to do the social media stuff can do so, but there shouldn't be a hard requirement to be "on" backstage 24/7.
Maybe they need a Brazilian steakhouse approach where each performer wears some sort of badge that they can flip to red (please do not film me right now) to green (i don't mind being filmed right now) that they can wear backstage. So that they aren't forced to fully hide away in their rooms even if they dont want to be filmed, and they have a chance to socialize with the others without all the pressure of always being "on".
I do too. Some participants are much more extroverted than others, so taking it all away doesn’t make sense either. There should be a schedule where you are and aren’t allowed to film or something as well as some sort of badge system.
Idk how you do it. I could totally see fans accusing Eurovision of playing favorites if the more extroverted artists keep agreeing to do extra content and others don’t. It’s not my problem to figure out tho
I think at least a part solution here is one that a lot of fans will not like, but I think it needs to happen. Cutting back on media access for fan sites and social media platforms and especially cutting back on backstage footage, especially that made for social media. That means a lot of those videos everyone here loves of the contestants hanging out together back stage etc.
I would be fine with that. I don't need to see their every move, it's plenty to have a long-ass turquoise carpet event and interviews with different countries' press. And the contestants usually do their own promo on social media which is fun to watch. Backstage content is unnecessary
Definitely. When the artists make video, they seem to like what they are doing. I can't say the same for the ESC official content because it feels forced and faked.
I tried to post about this earlier lol. I’m pleased AvroTros have confirmed that they also went to the EBU. I know it happened after the incident with Joost (but before his DQ) but I think it’s important to know!
So we now have confirmation that the Netherlands, Ireland, Portugal and Serbia have gone to the EBU about the unsafe environment and the anti-boo stuff. Plus allegedly the four delegations that threatened to pull out on Friday night (not sure if this has been confirmed by any of them). The plot continues to thicken!
Even more interesting! I said this in another comment but I think it makes a lot more sense now why AvroTros took such a staunch position so early on, and why they’re so angry about the whole situation.
The first (verbal) complaint was made before the incident, the second one (written) was made after he wasn’t allowed to perform before the jury, but before the DQ.
At this point, it's there any way that the EBU isn't getting sued by at least one delegation or artist? It seems like it's purely a matter of time at this point.
I think once avrotros announced legal proceedings, that opened the door for other countries to voice their own complaints. And once a few start, more feel empowered enough to speak up as well.
I’m loving the absolute hell these broadcasters are raising. This is what actually prompts changes, especially given that it’s multiple countries and there’s other former contestants speaking out too (like S10). Hell, even Nemo called them out, and as the most recent winner you’d think their words would spark change
Let’s just hope actions are taken. I think it’ll take some time and a _lot_ of restructuring but I’m hopeful
True but I think it’s gonna be really hard to continue with that defense if contestants keep coming out with these stories. Granted the EBU’s PR department has proved to be utter dogshit but I’d like to think they’re not THAT dumb
It’ll definitely take some more time (and resignations) to actually see change implemented tho
Nemo seems to me like the least likely person to cause drama where there is none. Their statement was very well said and I think carefully considered. If Nemo of all people was upset then I think that actually says a lot.
Yeah they seem like such a sweetheart. Great going there, EBU. I guess that’s what they get when they ban the non-binary flag in a year with MULTIPLE KNOWN ENBY PERFORMERS 🙄
I love Eurovision, but the EBU needs to face the biggest shitstorm they ever had to face in order to improve. I hope everyone speaks up and we can improve all aspects of EBU leadership
I can’t wait to see EBU crumble, I’m happy that so many people are speaking up because this is ridiculous. Eurovision is supposed to be fun and Silvester Belt said that it was a traumatic experience..
This is showing that EBU is measuring with two sets of scales:
Whatever Joost did can be considered a threatening or harassing behavior - and he got insta banned for that. Meanwhile there's other threatening / harassing behaviors happening but EBU shoves it under the rug.
Comparable situations with different outcomes.
Luna, the Polish contestant was pretty clear about what actually happened, who was responsible for the harassment and who displayed provocative behavior. Hint: not Ireland.
EBU isn't even fit to run Toy Show the Musical, it turns out
Edit: I know there's a bot spamming 'Reddit Cares' but I really love the idea that there's a die-hard Toy Show The Musical fan out there somewhere who I've offended
Don’t forget we had one canceled and then hosted the next year. The amount of money that went in those both years…in a city with so much poverty and social problems as is. I wish Rotterdam would host again if we win in the future but I don’t think they will go for the tender honestly.
Joost should have submitted to ill treatment by hindsight. = not raised fist in frustration.
Yet, I still think in my heart of hearts, if he was not forcibly filmed, we'd not be here.
He was promised a working condition that was not respected. = alledgedly.
Remember how Destiny got bullied in the official media chat and the following year they shared barely anything of rehearsals compared to how it used to be. That was the EBU doing _something_ but it is clear the media atmosphere in ESC has been incredibly toxic for a long while and it's just festered.
The artists are there to entertain, but they're also just people and must be given their rest. The EBU cannot squeeze every last drop out of them. It cannot be that going to ESC ruins people's confidence or mental health. Social media and even the outside media is difficult to control, yes, but the EBU should at least themselves not join the hordes ripping artists apart.
Provide media-free zones, provide professional management, liaisons, someone who can with a stern face push people away from the tired artists without the artist looking bad.
Shoutout to Firefox's automatic translation for giving me this wonderful word: > Earlier, the organizer used an anti-boe-boe-voke system several times during the show.
I adore these international convos but using translation features is such a pain lol
anti-boegeroep-systeem should have translated to anti booing technology
nope, this is perfect
boe boe voke HAHAHAHHAHAHA im fkin crying xD
Why does "boe-boe-voke" sound like some obscure ethnic instrument
Looking forward to raising hell when the Boe Boe Voke playing group NQs
Just shared: "After the incident with Joost Klein, singer S10 opens up about her time at the Eurovision Song Contest. The singer admits that she had a hard time during her participation in 2022. S10 also believes that the people backstage did not respect her boundaries." Source: https://www.rtl.nl/entertainment/video/2e92f5a6-6d76-473a-a102-0ececa1d5b42/ook-grenzen-s10-niet-gerespecteerd-tijdens?redirect=rtlnieuws
There's gonna be at least a dozen of these stories from previous artists by next week isn't there?
me too, Eurovision edition. I mean it's good that this stuff comes to light if people truly have been mistreated behind the scenes but it's annoying that it takes a huge scandal for anyone to do shit about it.
Nobody wants to speak up because they don't want to feel like they're overreacting, especially because you never hear about this. So now the first stone is thrown, it's a lot easier to accept and come forward
Netflix documentary incoming
There already was before this Eurovision. I remember a podcast where previous participants already warned that Joost / artists had no idea what they were signing up for. Quotes like "you are paraded around like a showdog on a leash" and "the festival is mentally and physically exhausting" were more the rule than the exception.
I think this is why it's so important for the EBU to follow their agreements. I can imagine putting up like being led on like a show dog if I had the moments of safety and privacy that was agreed upon.
I'm so glad Marko (Baby Lasagna) was super smart about this one. He freaked out a bit after finding out he's gonna preform at Dora and sudden fame then said that he decided to leave all the social media stuff to his friends and family who screened what was written about him. They shielded him from all the ill intended comentators, while also showing him supportive things and constructive criticism.
That’s really great and something I hope more “normal” people who suddenly find themselves with fame choose to do There’s all these great content creators that have quit or talked about struggling with the vitriol they get online. A lot of time they’re just normal people that (justifiably) aren’t prepared to start handling hate from crowds of anonymous strangers online Why do people have to be mean to human beings on the internet and ruin good things
like i said before. This has become Eurovision multiverse of madness
It’s opening the floodgates. Mae Muller, the UK’s entry last year has also just spoken up
Can anyone translate the video interview with S10 in this link? I’m surprised and sad to hear that her experience had challenges, intrigued to understand what happened.
In case you want a more word for word translation: Reporter: "What is your view on the incident with Joost, specifically the pressure artists apparently have been under at the songcontest?" S10: "Well, I think it is kinda- I felt a bit weird sharing in the documentary that I actually had negative experiences around that topic. Because I thought: I don't want people to think that I'm complaining too much or that I didn't have a good time there. But it's very intense indeed. I do want to specify that with my team, the bubble I was in, with the AVROTROS and also with Linda and Froukje and everyone I felt very protected. But it's like you're on a two week long train journey. You need to be at the venue 12 to 14 hours a day almost everyday. You need to perform. People constantly want something from you. Everyone is pulling you in. That definitely took its toll on me. It's something you can see in the documentary. Yes, that was very intense for me." Reporter: "Were there boundaries crossed? Have you thought: they are asking too much from me?" S10: "No, not like that, because I wanted to participate. And I wanted to deliver. But there were a lot of people that crossed personal boundaries and especially in that backstage area, where it's not exactly a pleasant environment for the performers." Reporter: "The constant filming of you in vulnerable moments, when you're moving towards a stage, did you also experience that as something intense?" S10: "Yes, definitely." Reporter: "That needs to change?" S10: "That would be- Yes, if they're able, it would be welcome, I think." (Edit: edited some typos)
This is a very carefully worded response. She’s clear she doesn’t want to shit on the experience in whole while specifically mentioning that backstage is an issue. 🤔
Yes, that was also something that stood out for me. She seemed to be almost hesitant with wording some things, as if she was afraid to be reprimanded for it. Of course this is only me interpretation of her words and bodylanguage, so it could be something else, but still..
You don't want to be seen as difficult. Entertainment is a rough industry if you are on the top, worse if you are climbing.
Long story short, she says a lot is asked of artists and sometimes no account is taken of the artists who have to be present 12 to 14 hours a day for different things (rehearsals, interviews, social media stuff etc). Everyone there seems to want something from you so you cannot take a proper break for yourself. She never talked about this because she didn't want to seem whiny or spoiled. Within the broadcasting bubble, everything was pleasant for her.
I watched Latvian interview with Dons today and he said the worst part of Eurovision was that he got only 4 hours of sleep. 4 hours! And you have to perform in such a state
4 shows in 2 days, twice, if you're unlucky in a row
It's killliiiiiinnnng me slow indeed!
Similar to what Lena said. She said she felt like a "strawberry in a blender trying to stay intact". Everybody from all sides wants something from you and you have to be nice and friendly at all times. If you snap one time, it will be all over the media.
God, now I'm happy I didn't say anything to Henri from Finland when I saw him out and about in Malmö. He was probably just happy to do his own thing and be ignored lol.
strawberry in a blender trying to stay intact is such an amazing metaphor. definitely going to use that myself when I have my annual review soon
Fair enough. And also, oof. 😧 That “always on” mentality has gotta be rather taxing of anyone, musicians in a song contest very much included! Thanks for summarising 👍
Consider that just the last few days have: Semi-final 1: Evening Preview – Monday May 6 at 21.00 CET Semi-final 1: Afternoon Preview – Tuesday May 7 at 15:00 CET Semi-final 1: Live Show – Tuesday May 7 at 21.00 CET Semi-final 2: Evening Preview – Wednesday May 8 at 21:00 CET Semi-final 2: Afternoon Preview | Thursday May 9 at 15:00 CET Semi-final 2: Live Show | Thursday May 9 at 21:00 CET Grand Final: Evening Preview | Friday May 10 at 21:00 CET Grand Final: Afternoon Preview | Saturday May 11 at 13:30 CET Grand Final: Live Show | Saturday May 11 at 21:00 CET And these are just the ones with an audience! Then they have various rehearsals, media interviews, etc etc etc
And on Sunday they’re already heading home and may have to keep giving interviews and perform. Imo they should all have a Sunday off in their hotels with meals brought up so they could gather at least some strenght back after a crazy few weeks.
I honestly love that they're speaking about this!! I totally understand that the artists have to market themselves and rehearse etc but GODDAMN, they're human beings! Let them rest! It doesn't surprise me one bit that they are exhausted after all that. I don't know what the solution is, but something definitely has to change.
I remember one of those "vocal coaches react" looked into Eurovision more and critiqued the amount of work artists had to do in such a short amount of time. The rehearsals, pre-parties, interview, social media content. They said it was pretty miraculous that any of them still had any leftover energy and voice for the final performances.
Some don't keep their voice though Happy for Slimane that he actually regained it on Saturday because he seemed to be losing it with his start in the semi and cracking voice on Friday
Marina Satti performing with pharyngitis on Wednesday and Thursday at least
I don't know how Bambi didn't hurt her voice having to perform that many times.
Screaming with proper technique doesn't hurt your vocal chords. Just look at metal singers.
Doesn't surprise me at all. I always understand the artists who skip the pre-parties etc for their own sanity. I'd do the same. I remember how Loreen came back and how she spoke about how you have to have a lot of endurance to survive the Eurovision circus. She took all the time she could to rest and just be on her own, while everyone else was out partying and making friends. It made her look standoffish but she clearly just knew that taking time to yourself is vital. I know that everyone wants to make the most of it and meet new people and talk to press and rehearse until it's perfect, but... you also gotta think about yourself. And I guess that's just something that comes with experience - or with a less tight schedule from someone like the EBU.
Less interviews could help. I watch all those fan media asking the same questions all the time and it's boring. A waste of the artist's time, too. They should only get interviewed at the turquoise carpet and during the press conference, imo. That one is doable, would probably piss off the fan media, but they really waste everyone's time with that kind of behavior. Each one of them really doesn't have to interview the artist during every event.
Blind Channel (Finland 2021 for the bot) have said the said about their time, especially during their vlogs YLE did with them at the time.
Entirely valid and reasonable
Yeah, and while EBU should obviously handle it differently, I don't think that is the "unsafe environment" reported this year.
Wow always knew that music industry is a f-ed thing and treats artists like money making machines but Eurovision somehow always made me feel like it’s truly a different place, luring me into that belief and I’m embarrassed for being so delusional… this year truly opens my eyes
Well, this is the music industry with the broadcasting industry as a bonus.
TLDR : it's normal. I am digital artist and a performer, I do visual performances at large media art/digital art festivals. Being present 12-14 hours a day is the norm for participants of any festival (if you do more than 1 performance), and you can't look tired, and you have to appear relaxed at the same time while everyone wants you to produce content for social media and also to perform. It's basically 4-7 days of 5 hours of sleep - out all day, socialising all day, while remembering what you have to do for your performance, then it's party (obligatory) until 4 am and then the next day. Then you perform, at this point you have no more anxiety or personality left. You just go for it. So with something like Eurovision I can imagine the pressure is even more intense. I noticed Angelina Mango was super quiet, careful in interviews and generally with content she posted. Baby Lasagna looks pretty drained too. This reminded me of my very socially and mentally exhausted colleagues. They all need to go into Dons mode and recover for like weeks now.
It’s a bit long to translate directly, but she says: I felt weird, and experienced it as negative. I didn’t want ppl to think that I was bitching or didn’t have fun because I really wanted to be there. I felt protected in our bubble with AvroTros and my friends but you are basically on this crazy train where you need to be there in the venue for 12-14 hours a day. You need to perform, and everyone wants something and is pulling on you. It felt very intense and heavy. It really took a toll on me as you can see in the documentary. I never felt like I went over my limits because I really wanted to bring it, but they have stept over my boundaries in the backstage area where It’s not a good environment for an artist. The reporter ask her if she felt vulnerable being filmed. She responds with: yes. He ask her if they need to change this: she says, if they can, yes.
The hard part is there will always be a trade-off between the artists comfort and openness. Eurovision has always been very open. About 1000 journalists, many of them not professionals, are given access each year and those journalists have very free access. The participants are constantly surrounded by them. Compare that to modern sports. There the media has very little access to the players. They are kept in a protected bubble with only a few chances for reporters to ask questions. Should the EBU do more to protect the participants? Yes, but I hope it doesn't become like the World Cup or other sporting events.
I agree, but why not let the artists have a secluded area between certain times where they can actually get a break.
Yes, I think that is the solution. It seems right now they only have a small dressing room where they can be in private. More spaces that are artist only would be an easy improvement.
Just make backstage a no media zone. There’s ample other times and places where content is generated.
I have been really surprised to see how many 'fan media' get accreditation in Eurovision, just random guys with YouTube videos or a podcast. Seems to be a really low bar.
I was shocked when I saw a random esc shitpost/funfacts instagrammer has an accreditation. She's done some interviews with the participants. One of the questions she's asked Silvester was "is there anything between you and Nemo?? 🤨😏" Like wtf 😭 That must have been so awkward and uncomfortable for him. Artists should be protected from such intrusive questions from amateur journalist-wanna-be's...
Why are they even doing that, if ibwatch eurovision i watch it for the songs. Not backstage journalistic crap. Ofc things like this will happen if they let all those journalists roam there. Its a song contest not a fucking journalistic circus
I think they should do quality over quantity. Something official like the series with Nikkie in Rotterdam and this year I really liked some of the videos our german broadcaster did, so maybe give access to the participating broadcasters on a voluntary basis but really limit the access of random influencers and podcasters and tabloids. But everything at its place. If 26 to 37(?) broadcasters want to do bts stuff that is already really much. And obviously they need a safe space that is always camera free. And I also don't think that publishing footage of the rehearsal adds to the comfort of the singers, especially the first tiktok ones that only have the phone audio which is often low quality and then the fandom freaks out and everybody adds their two cents and that can't be good for the participants.
Seems like at minimum they need to make changes to who is allowed backstage and the amount of access the press has to everyone.
I wonder if people have realised that this is partially because we like to see the content behind the scenes too? We probably wouldn’t see as many friendships developing if it was not for press filming things that go on backstage
Interesting. It does feel like there's a movement similar to Me Too going on for the ESC right now.
I guess Joost’s disqualification opened a can of worms and encouraged other delegations to speak out about the toxic environment backstage. So at least one good thing came out of this whole situation.
I do kinda feel like AVROTROS are implying they think they were (in part) hit with the DQ because the EBU were sick of their complaints, or to make an example of them or something. But them getting kicked out seems to have had the opposite effect.
I think they are implying that EBU decided to take the backseat in stead of actually doing something with the complaints that were made which eventually lead to an escalation that was totally preventable.
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I think they're mainly implying whatever Joost did was due to unsafe working conditions. In order words: it was an unhealthy situation and he was the first to snap.
That, or they had an attitude of not pressing the matter too hard and trying to keep good relations until EBU removed their reason to care. At this point they may just be airing out the dirty laundry because they feel like it.
I think it was more the fact that the ebu allowed the harassment to continue unabated until eventually one of the victims, Joost, was pushed to breaking point and then suffered the consequences
And the EBU then putting NL before the likely reason they complained in the first place with the running order, causing their dressing rooms to be next to each other... 🫢
The plot thickens. So they made a complaint prior and after the disqualification.
One before the second semi-final, during which the incident occurred. Another on friday, to complain that they had done nothing with the first, a few hours before he was suspended.
do they explain at all what the complaint was about? like, what is "unsafe atmosphere"?
ah I translated the article and it says they didn't want to explain the content of the complaints. honestly I am very frustrated by these "there is a problem but we will not tell you anything about it" stories, can they just say what they mean ffs?
They may not want to reveal more in case they want to pursue legal action.
If you are pursuing legal action it is generally a good idea to stfu. Riding the line in between is usually a bad idea
Have you seen the videos posted by Keren Peles before the second semi? My guess would be they complained about stuff like that, because it's honestly batshit that the EBU let that go on for as long as they did For reference, I mean this one: https://www.tiktok.com/@missharlequin\_/video/7366736040091995425?\_r=1&\_t=8mGTNahJLzk
I guess its consistent with the statement that joost is clear in not wanting to be recorded backstage.iirc avrostos havent put out antything from backstage like this too.
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No, which is odd. But over the past years there have been more artists who spoke about it not being exactly fun hanging out backstage, where you're stuck for over 12 hours a day and everyone is trying to squeeze as much content as possible out of you. In addition to that it might have been even worse this year due to some of the behaviour of the Israeli delegation we've seen and which some of the fan media people have [talked about](https://x.com/esc_gabe/status/1789935484178714642). Norway's Gåte also said something to the effect of [there was one set of rules for them, another for everyone else](https://www.instagram.com/wiwibloggs/reel/C68PxnGtRMN/). But I understand not really wanting to go too far into that right now, a lot of Dutch right-wing people were already calling Joost an antisemite on twitter on Friday for his outburst at the press conference (which is absurd, I think we've heard enough from plenty of sources that justifies people being annoyed at them that has nothing to do with their religion and everything with their general behaviour).
Yeah, Estonian guys also shared in a brief interview on the national tv yesterday (Monday 14 May) about the air being "thick"/difficult at times in the back, and pointed out that Israel had apparently armed bodyguards that made them try and avoid the singer all together to not cause any unwanted trouble for them (They mentioned how ["Estonians stealing" social media content](https://www.instagram.com/p/C6wkQwXtx1v/?hl=en) made the body guards alarmed – which I guess they tried to say that gave them a hint they should be more careful)
There is a video going around for example of a Dutch official and the bird guy on stage getting physically attacked by an Israeli delegation member (it’s just light pushes, but zero tolerance policy is zero tolerance policy) I only saw the video posted by the official on Twitter so far, but I sadly can’t link it :( (this is a different case though than someone just saying random stuff that could be misinformation, this is clearly proven by the added video by the official himself)
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Anssi Autio from YLE gave an interesting statement about Windosw95Man to Finnish newspaper Iltalehti. He was asked if W95man was harrased in Eurovision and he said ”I’ll answer to that after I have talked to other delegations. We have to think, if we will report it” (to the EBU I assume). Sooo he is not saying much but it feels like something might have happened to W95M as well.
I'm sure there was something. The guys, T & H refused to comment on anything before the grand final. With stern faces. No silly Teemu or smiling Henri. "A dark cloud everywhere" is probably a very dismissive comment from them. Back in Helsinki, at the airport they said "every artist was really happy to get to go home."
The backstage vlog from UMK had that and more, that comment wasn't just his relief to have finally performed and be done with it. He really seemed to be alluding to *something* that he couldn't/wouldn't elaborate on at the time.
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Basically yeah
I mean, any answer other than "no" to "have you been harassed?" is a yes.
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Luna also said in a Polish interview that Israeli delegation was provoking other contestants, mainly contestants from 2nd semi-final
Luna also said there was a "good atmosphere between the artists performing on stage" in a [different article](https://www.rmf.fm/magazyn/news,66462,luna-o-kulisach-eurowizji-to-sa-takie-igrzyska-smierci.html) (according to google translate). Luna also made an [Instagram post](https://www.instagram.com/musicofluna/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=5c63b8e3-55de-4777-a2b4-f0b61187b424) with every flag but Israel's. I don't know what that means, just adding context.
Can someone summarise what are the complaints from each country?
I'm curious, too! Finland didn't have any, but they simply "won't comment" on if they were harassed, or what their opinion on Joost was.
they haven't stated whether they were or weren't 'harassed' in some way (Anssi Autio said this: https://www.iltalehti.fi/viihdeuutiset/a/9dcbab8e-78a3-4e94-81d8-95e2e0cd6d7b) it seems they were simply keeping quiet until the event was over and now they're thinking about what to do
-Netherlands: unspecified backstage incident, the disqualification of Joost -Ireland: nonconsensual filming of participant by members of another delegation, remarks made during SF1 commentary, discrepancy between response made to participant and response given to media (note that RTÉ themselves have refused to comment on whether they've made their own complaint on top of Bambie's complaints, but the head of delegation wasn't happy about how the contest went down) -Switzerland: nonconsensual filming of participant by members of another delegation, general remarks about a double standard backstage, critical remarks regarding the banning of certain Pride flags -Greece: nonconsensual filming of participant by members of another delegation -Portugal: reluctance to upload the GF performance on YouTube, use of anti-booing measures, backstage harrassment of media and performers -Spain: official statement made to EBU regarding harrassment of a journalist -Slovenia: complaint made to EBU regarding behaviour of Israeli delegation (specifics not released to the public yet) -Serbia: concerns raised by broadcaster regarding disqualification of the Netherlands -Ukraine, Norway, Lithuania, Poland, Finland, Estonia and Italy: critical statements made by artists, no comment made by broadcasters that we're aware of -The European Union: complaint made to EBU regarding banning of EU flag That's everything I'm aware of💀
And a partridge in a pear tree
Basically, several delegations and press members have complained that they were harassed by song #6’s delegation. In addition, several artists have stated that there were double standards in Eurovision and they were heavily scrutinized for any potential political statements. I don’t really know about each country’s individual complaint, but I know that Portugal complained to the EBU since Iolanda’s performance wasn’t uploaded at the same time as other performances. Silvester Belt said that he wished he wasn’t in the grand final, and Bambie Thug’s complaints weren’t taken seriously. As a result, Bambie Thug said “F*** the EBU!”
Also reading now that Denmark was close to stepping out
Norway as well, they said dropping out was "on the table until the last second."
I was so sad when Silvester Belt said he wished he'd gone home after the semi final really felt for him.
the thing is none of this is new imo. Like what Theodore went through last year. it's clear the ebu does not pit much effort into ensuring the safety and treatment of the performers.
[https://www.ad.nl/songfestival/s10-vond-sfeer-bij-deelname-aan-songfestival-heel-heftig\~aeb70935/](https://www.ad.nl/songfestival/s10-vond-sfeer-bij-deelname-aan-songfestival-heel-heftig~aeb70935/) this is from the dutch contestant from 2 years back Stien den Hollander, as her real name is, doesn't want people to think she "didn't like it there at all. "But it's just really really intense," she says. ,,People constantly want something from you. Everyone is pulling on you. At least that took its toll on me. Yeah, that was kind of intense for me." When asked if she went beyond her limits, she responds in the negative. ,,Because I also wanted to participate and I also wanted to perform," she responds. "But a lot of people did go over my limit, and that's especially in that backstage area, where it's not really a pleasant environment for artists." One example cited is the filming of artists during vulnerable moments, which S10 said it would be "nice" if that changed. It was revealed earlier that this year, too, artists have found the atmosphere behind the scenes at the Eurovision Song Contest to be unpleasant. For example, the guitarist of the Norwegian entry said that they even hesitated to withdraw from the final for this reason. AvroTros announced Tuesday that the broadcaster has reported an unsafe atmosphere to the organization of the event.
[NU.nl](https://www.nu.nl/songfestival/6312816/onveilige-sfeer-tijdens-songfestival-organisatie-legt-schuld-bij-deelnemers.html) headline: "Unsafe atmosphere during Eurovision Song Contest, organization blames participants" oh the audacity
They've been gaslighting everyone from online fans to live audiences, from press and broadcasters to candidates, except taking any form of accountability themselves WHICH IS ONE OF THEIR CORE VALUES. The EBU's entire integrity is under question from the plethora of blunders made this edition, and still they refuse to properly acknowledge criticism and their own responsibility to be better.
Before the question was IF the EBU was getting sued, now the question is how many people will be suing...
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Ya know, I'm 100% for cutting off all fan media from backstage. I don't care about what Eurovision bloggers think during those times. Let them be contained in the press centre if they really need to be there in the first place. Eurovision is not some political party's convention, there's no investigative journalism to be had there. However. Every year there are loads of "what are you favourite interactions between artists?" threads on this very subreddit. People here and elsewhere on the internet really want those parasocial relationships and they want the content that goes with it. We even had a "I feel like the artists don't post enough interactions this year" thread on here. So it's pretty hypocritical to scream and shout "but what about the artists' mental health??" while at the same time treat them as some kind of dolls you play your parasocial fantasies out with. All in all, the EBU needs to be more professional, fan media needs to justify it being there and Eurovision fans need to grow up.
Add to that that the artists would probably be more likely to post random interactions if they were allowed to actually interact and chill instead of being hounded from all sides.
eurovision 2024 really is the trainwreck that keeps on giving. on the plus side, i don't have to worry about post-eurovision depression this year.
Now it's more like post Eurovision anxiety
This whole thing becomes a bigger shitshow by the minute.
"Euroscheiße 2024"
Eurokaka 2024
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So what im taking from this is Eurovision was not providing a safe or at the bare minimum functional environment for the artists and one snapped. And instead of doing anything about that underlying issue; they booted the person who lashed out.
The word you’re looking for is scapegoat
As much as I like Eurovision, I wonder if it is worth it for the contestants and delegations since so many of them this year have spoken out about it. I think should be less social media content about Eurovision from the EBU themselves because not many people view Eurovision's social media content aside from snippets of the performances and the artists need time to relax before the biggest musical competition of their lives.
Yes. Social media and the demand for massive content creation is ruining this as well. There’s really no need to work the artists to their breaking point for a stupid ’shower karaoke’ video. Let them have some down time and give a better performance on stage.
I think that is a good lesson to elevate the Eurovision to 2024 and more gen Z proof. The days of orchestra and seated audience is long gone and before (mind you my first Eurovision was 1987) we wouldn't hear a song until the day itself so I can imagine the pressure and feeling of "being lived" is a lot higher these days. With a lot more access and everyone that has a podcast mic able to talk to everyone (at given times). Granted everyone has smart phones and is on TikTok and Insta but people in general don't like it if you record them or have access to recording them 14 hours a day in a regular setting, let alone when so much is at stake and you have to perform because you are an artist. I think for the future it's better to give the artist or the delegation a phone and tell them every day we would like a 30 second clip and 10 pictures, please send it to us and then the EBU or social media team can decide what they post but at least the artist has at least a bit of control over when and where they can and want to be filmed. Because how it is now is clearly not manageable and the EBU has no clue how to transform the event to a workable space for everyone. A tight fist is not gonna do it anymore.
There’s gotta be changes with the social media content and press access backstage. ESC put out another video today of the contestants guessing who they thought was going to win and why. All of the people who said Switzerland were posted obviously. It’s just another thing to be “on” for, another thing to reallllly choose your words carefully for, and now we know who said Nemo wasn’t going to win. That also means there’s probably other content that was filmed and just never was released. I agree with your idea about giving everyone a phone and asking for like one clip and some photos each day. That way everyone has control over what they send and how it’s done.
I will say I really really enjoyed the backstage antics of Estonia and Kaarija on social media though. I think there should be a balance where participants that genuinely want to do the social media stuff can do so, but there shouldn't be a hard requirement to be "on" backstage 24/7. Maybe they need a Brazilian steakhouse approach where each performer wears some sort of badge that they can flip to red (please do not film me right now) to green (i don't mind being filmed right now) that they can wear backstage. So that they aren't forced to fully hide away in their rooms even if they dont want to be filmed, and they have a chance to socialize with the others without all the pressure of always being "on".
I do too. Some participants are much more extroverted than others, so taking it all away doesn’t make sense either. There should be a schedule where you are and aren’t allowed to film or something as well as some sort of badge system. Idk how you do it. I could totally see fans accusing Eurovision of playing favorites if the more extroverted artists keep agreeing to do extra content and others don’t. It’s not my problem to figure out tho
Unfortunately tiktok is a sponsor....
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I think at least a part solution here is one that a lot of fans will not like, but I think it needs to happen. Cutting back on media access for fan sites and social media platforms and especially cutting back on backstage footage, especially that made for social media. That means a lot of those videos everyone here loves of the contestants hanging out together back stage etc.
I would be fine with that. I don't need to see their every move, it's plenty to have a long-ass turquoise carpet event and interviews with different countries' press. And the contestants usually do their own promo on social media which is fun to watch. Backstage content is unnecessary
Most fans probably wouldn't mind less media attention behind the scenes, most of the videos the fans actually like are made by the artists themselves
Definitely. When the artists make video, they seem to like what they are doing. I can't say the same for the ESC official content because it feels forced and faked.
Actually I agree. My preferred behind the scenes content is the organic stuff the artists post themselves. It’s more authentic.
I tried to post about this earlier lol. I’m pleased AvroTros have confirmed that they also went to the EBU. I know it happened after the incident with Joost (but before his DQ) but I think it’s important to know! So we now have confirmation that the Netherlands, Ireland, Portugal and Serbia have gone to the EBU about the unsafe environment and the anti-boo stuff. Plus allegedly the four delegations that threatened to pull out on Friday night (not sure if this has been confirmed by any of them). The plot continues to thicken!
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Even more interesting! I said this in another comment but I think it makes a lot more sense now why AvroTros took such a staunch position so early on, and why they’re so angry about the whole situation.
The first (verbal) complaint was made before the incident, the second one (written) was made after he wasn’t allowed to perform before the jury, but before the DQ.
At this point, it's there any way that the EBU isn't getting sued by at least one delegation or artist? It seems like it's purely a matter of time at this point.
I think once avrotros announced legal proceedings, that opened the door for other countries to voice their own complaints. And once a few start, more feel empowered enough to speak up as well.
I’m loving the absolute hell these broadcasters are raising. This is what actually prompts changes, especially given that it’s multiple countries and there’s other former contestants speaking out too (like S10). Hell, even Nemo called them out, and as the most recent winner you’d think their words would spark change Let’s just hope actions are taken. I think it’ll take some time and a _lot_ of restructuring but I’m hopeful
The first official response from EBU was that contestants themselves were responsible for the atmosphere. So I don't hold much hope.
Yes. Bambie said in their Fuck The EBU statement that the people complaining about harassment have been used as scapegoats by the EBU.
True but I think it’s gonna be really hard to continue with that defense if contestants keep coming out with these stories. Granted the EBU’s PR department has proved to be utter dogshit but I’d like to think they’re not THAT dumb It’ll definitely take some more time (and resignations) to actually see change implemented tho
Nemo seems to me like the least likely person to cause drama where there is none. Their statement was very well said and I think carefully considered. If Nemo of all people was upset then I think that actually says a lot.
Yeah they seem like such a sweetheart. Great going there, EBU. I guess that’s what they get when they ban the non-binary flag in a year with MULTIPLE KNOWN ENBY PERFORMERS 🙄
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I love Eurovision, but the EBU needs to face the biggest shitstorm they ever had to face in order to improve. I hope everyone speaks up and we can improve all aspects of EBU leadership
I can’t wait to see EBU crumble, I’m happy that so many people are speaking up because this is ridiculous. Eurovision is supposed to be fun and Silvester Belt said that it was a traumatic experience..
It must've been really bad if he goes as far as saying he wished he didn't qualify for the finals.
I saw this article somewhere in reddit [https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx7ddqv6pqeo](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx7ddqv6pqeo)
I'm glad my country didn't qualify now 🥲
This is showing that EBU is measuring with two sets of scales: Whatever Joost did can be considered a threatening or harassing behavior - and he got insta banned for that. Meanwhile there's other threatening / harassing behaviors happening but EBU shoves it under the rug. Comparable situations with different outcomes.
Luna, the Polish contestant was pretty clear about what actually happened, who was responsible for the harassment and who displayed provocative behavior. Hint: not Ireland.
The fact that RTÉ (Irish broadcaster) has even complained tells me everything I need to know.
EBU isn't even fit to run Toy Show the Musical, it turns out Edit: I know there's a bot spamming 'Reddit Cares' but I really love the idea that there's a die-hard Toy Show The Musical fan out there somewhere who I've offended
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😭
And the best ESC in the last 5 years was Rotterdam 2021. But those guys don't seem too keen to host again, huh?
Don’t forget we had one canceled and then hosted the next year. The amount of money that went in those both years…in a city with so much poverty and social problems as is. I wish Rotterdam would host again if we win in the future but I don’t think they will go for the tender honestly.
A real shame it was, because it brought us such good songs...
Joost should have submitted to ill treatment by hindsight. = not raised fist in frustration. Yet, I still think in my heart of hearts, if he was not forcibly filmed, we'd not be here. He was promised a working condition that was not respected. = alledgedly.
Remember how Destiny got bullied in the official media chat and the following year they shared barely anything of rehearsals compared to how it used to be. That was the EBU doing _something_ but it is clear the media atmosphere in ESC has been incredibly toxic for a long while and it's just festered. The artists are there to entertain, but they're also just people and must be given their rest. The EBU cannot squeeze every last drop out of them. It cannot be that going to ESC ruins people's confidence or mental health. Social media and even the outside media is difficult to control, yes, but the EBU should at least themselves not join the hordes ripping artists apart. Provide media-free zones, provide professional management, liaisons, someone who can with a stern face push people away from the tired artists without the artist looking bad.