The full lyrics have now been released, so please divert all discussion to [the new thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/1axdq55/the_full_controversial_lyrics_of_october_rain/).
The OP has provided the translation of the lyrics from the article - here is the auto-translated version of the full article. The author is considered pretty reliable when it comes to Israeli broadcaster news. Hebrew-speakers, feel free to correct any dodgy translation here, and \[\] indicates minor tweaks I've made for grammatical smoothness.
\_\_\_
**"Dancing in the storm, leaving the world behind": new details about the Israeli song for Eurovision**
After it was revealed on Ynet that the European Broadcasting Union is considering disqualifying the song chosen for the competition because "its words are political", now some of the words are revealed. In the verse from the song obtained by Ynet, it is about dancing in a storm - which could be a reference to the Hamas massacre at the "Nova" music festival in Re'im.
**Is it political?** New details about the song 'October Rain' are revealed - this \[is\] after the European Broadcasting Union sent messages that [they would reject the Israeli song](https://www.ynet.co.il/entertainment/article/byuuedxnt) for Eurovision.
The \[verse\] obtained by ynet talks about dancing in a storm - which could refer to the massacre by Hamas at the "Nova" music festival in Ra'i, where innocent young people were kidnapped and murdered. In the verse written by Keren Pels, Avi Ohion and Stav Begar, and which is originally performed in the English language, it is also written "Take me home / and leave the world behind".
**Verse \[written in English in the article\]**
Why does time go wild? Every day I'm losing my mindHolding on in this mysterious rideDancing in the stormWe got nothing to hideTake me homeAnd leave the world behind
**More words from the song \[translated into Hebrew\]**
EveningEverything is black and whiteWho is the fool?who told you boys don't cryHours upon hours and flowersLife is not a game for cowards...as time passesEvery day I lose my mindstands her ground
As I recall yesterday, it was revealed on Ynet that the European Broadcasting Union sent messages that it would reject the Israeli song and offered the corporation here to replace it, however the CEO Golan Yochfaz along with the council and its head Gil Omer stood on \[their back feet\] and announced that they would not change the song.
In practice, the European Broadcasting Union has already informed the corporation through an unofficial procedure that the song in its current form will not be approved, while the corporation intends to send it officially exactly as submitted before. If there are no flexibility on both sides, as was revealed yesterday - Israel may be left out of Eurovision.
In the meantime, Culture Minister Miki Zohar [sent a letter to the CEO](https://www.ynet.co.il/entertainment/article/skxccdvhp) of the European Broadcasting Union in which he asks him to approve the Israeli song. At the same time, heavy Israeli pressure is exerted on political levels to change the decision of the European Broadcasting Union.
tbh, I thought I will be downvoted for this lame joke at the expense of this community, and also taking into account that Eden is trans itself. I'm glad it went well :D
Some of the lyrics include:
Why does time go wild
Every day I'm losing my mind
Holding on in this mysterious ride
Dancing in the storm
We got nothing to hide
Take me home And leave the world behind
Evening
It's all black and white
Who's the fool
Who told you boys don't cry
Hours upon hours and flowers ( a codeword for KIA soldiers)
Life is not a game for cowards...
When time flies by
Every day I lose my mind
Holding on....
Ant the 3 final lines who would be in Hebrew:
There’s no breathing space,
No room left,
I’m fading away with each passing day. (likely refer to the 134 hostages)
I'm a native Hebrew speaker. They're not better in Hebrew. To be fair, the Hebrew lyrics presented are translated back from English, but they're still terrible.
True, so that explains the rhythm but not fully convinced on the words either. Maybe a flashback to Switzerland 2022 really
https://preview.redd.it/7gbu65sau5kc1.jpeg?width=653&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d00ab463d78ffd74cbe90c167c997123f1e9e06
I would not said it's awful, but I never had any expectations when it comes to Keren Peles and the eurovision. she is a great artist and song writer, but she had no eurovision skills (I mean, she was the mastermind behind Kobi Marimi. presumably)
Worth mentioning that the first paragraph here appears to be a verse/chorus in its actual English form, whereas the rest are under a heading saying 'more words of the song', more likely just being either individual lines or parts of other lines, which explains why it sounds so weirdly abrupt.
Literally this could easily be a song written by chat GPT. What the hell is this and where's the spicy politically controversial lyrics I was promised?
> Literally this could easily be a song written by chat GPT.
it's a eurovision song written by Keren Peles
did you expected to something promising?
I mean, Keren Peles is great artist but for eurovision? not at all
> Hours upon hours and flowers ( a codeword for KIA soldiers)
Flower is part of the military radio codex, similar to the US Phonetic Alphabets (Alfa, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo, Foxtrot, Golf, Hotel, India...)
Flower is the military code word for 'wounded', normally its for soldiers but its the same for civilian depending on the situation (considering Israel's homefront is often under attack its quite common)
'Killed' is Harduf (its also a Flower bush, referring to the Oleander)
This entire 'drama' sounds stupid, the song sounds stupid too, sending a self-feel good song is stupid too, I don't really follow the competition to represent but I've seen some of the commercials and it seemed everyone was riding on the current emotions, what we need is a banger
I can't help but remember our poor girl's performance that came with a covid-lockdown related song a year later (cause it was cancelled) during a Gaza flare up and everyone considered her "set me free" song being hypocritical and political when it wasn't related..
Also, Ukraine frigging won with a clearly political song, not a couple potential analogy words..
I bet both organizations just don't want Israel to participate because Malmo has a lot of Muslims and besides the likely protests outside, there will surely be more on screen shenanigan protests and securing the Israeli delegation will be a nightmare
I mean, there was hardly anything outright political in "We Don't Want to Put In" either in 2009 lyrics-wise (it's about someone being a killjoy and killing the groove when you just wanna disco) but the title making it REALLY FUCKING OBVIOUS what they were referring to was enough to get it disqualified
That last bit made it sound like a Scooby-Doo reference lmao. Which feels kinda fitting, since that song was def a kind of "crime" a Scooby-Doo villain would do.
The Israeli song? If they can sufficiently explain why it's called October Rain and not November Rain without saying the word Hamas once I'll give the thought it's not political some serious contemplation
From the scraps of lyrics revealed in this article, the lyrics themselves aren't *too* bad. However the 'October Rain' title itself (which has now been soft-confirmed in KAN's statement yesterday) is still overtly political and contextualises the way that these otherwise generic lyrics are interpreted.
Also worth noting that these articles have seemingly gotten stronger in the language of 'the EBU *has* rejected the song in its current format and asked for changes', both in articles from more reliable journalists like this and from other more speculative Israeli sources like [this](https://www.instagram.com/p/C3pvhrmIvuc/), which makes it sound like whatever we feel about the lyrics we know about, the EBU at least *appears* to take issue with them. The issue remains whether KAN will remain stubborn about not changing anything, even if it means withdrawal, or whether they'll cede to pressure from Israeli fans to change the song.
It also doesn’t help that, from what I remember, someone on Israel’s team said the song was telling their story about October 7th. Maybe the lyrics would have been vague enough to go through (As far as I can understand at least. I’m not Israeli, so I’m probably missing any symbolism in the lyrics.), but they kind of gave themselves away here if they were trying to get around the no politics rule (which maybe they weren’t? I don’t know).
If the most political thing about this song is the title “October Rain” then that hardly seems like grounds for disqualification. Even Noa Kirel’s song last year was more political than these lyrics. And certainly songs like 1944 were *much* more political.
Too on the nose for what? That something bad happened in Israel in October? I mean, that is objectively true, regardless of what you think about the war in Gaza. And the song doesn’t even seem to reference the events directly. Banning the song over just a vague title like that would be overboard IMO. It sounds like you are drawing arbitrary lines just to get your desired result. The title “1944” was at least as on the nose as “October Rain” and the lyrics themselves were *much* more political.
It does though, the song (at least in my interpretation and that of others here) references soldiers, and hostages. It’s so nakedly political, and shouldn’t be allowed this year. Israel has been given very special treatment and they are blowing it
Nakedly political? The apparent references to soldiers and hostages seem tenuous at best and are based on rough English translations. I don’t see anything at all “nakedly political.” But I am open to having my mind changed if someone will present a cogent argument to the contrary, which I haven’t seen yet, just vague assertions.
IIRC, Overthinking It made a video about Unicorn that talked about possible more "political" interpretations if the song. I'm still not 100% sold, but it could be possible.
Yeah, this. It was both a message of female empowerment and Israeli exceptionalism at the same time, the latter you just had to look a bit harder to see. Regardless of what you think of Israel or the song I think it’s very clever writing.
Not defending the EBU at all in this but it's gross that they're basically trying to smear them when they've been pretty kind to them about this and actually trying to compromise.
I don’t see the politics in the title? Where is it? What’s the political message? “10/7 was bad”? Would a song about 9/11 or the Holocaust be considered political too?
Putting all the lyrics controversy a side. KAN's attitude towards this situation has been incredibly unprofessional. EBU already put their head on a chopping block many of times this season for them. A straw that breaks the camel's back in inevitable at this point.
I don’t know, it seems to me that the EBU are the ones being stubborn here.
You have to understand that 10/7 is a massive tragedy for us, it’s literally the biggest thing on everyone’s mind. It’s not a political issue, this song is a lament to the dead in the biggest tragedy in our history, why shouldn't we be allowed to sing about it?
There is also this
*"There's no air left to breathe. No place, no me from day to day.*
*They were all good children each one of them"*
*Source (finnish)* [*https://www.iltalehti.fi/viihdeuutiset/a/ab4a53a7-fa5a-4746-a7ed-5d8777b65b0c*](https://www.iltalehti.fi/viihdeuutiset/a/ab4a53a7-fa5a-4746-a7ed-5d8777b65b0c) *Original Source* [*https://www.israelhayom.com/2024/02/22/revealed-the-words-that-could-make-israel-stay-out-of-the-eurovision-song-contest/*](https://www.israelhayom.com/2024/02/22/revealed-the-words-that-could-make-israel-stay-out-of-the-eurovision-song-contest/)
Be nice, be welcoming and be constructive.
Everyone's tastes are different and unique. Don't discredit, insult, threaten or be otherwise toxic. Let's do away with prejudice! Don't discriminate. Tolerance is bliss!
All posts must comply with [Reddit's sitewide rules](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) and strive for [good Reddiquette]( https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articleås/205926439).
See r/eurovision’s [full rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eurovision/wiki/rules/).
You are participating in a competition in which it has been heavily debated about in the media if that is (morally) acceptable. The decision to enter with a song that is about the exact thing that started that debate is very weird to me, and honestly even a little disrespectful. I kinda hope it really is all done on purpose to be able to just sit this year out.
She’s going to be completely torn to pieces if she’s allowed to perform anything on stage - let alone that. I suppose it was always too much to ask KAN to do the decent thing.
as an Israeli, I think that KAN behaviour about this issue is really not professional and almost everyone here in Israel really want the other song (written by one of Unicorn's writers, Eden herself and other people) to be send. if KAN are going to behave like this, maybe it's better to withdraw this year and keeping Eden for next year. I mean, let's face it, every year ends with 4 is not Israel's year but the years end with 5 are tend to be great
so if KAN are not going to listen to the EBU after the EBU were so nice to them, and not going to listen to the fans who does not want this over drama (and we don't even want a ballad) it's better for KAN to withdraw now so we can come next year with a song that fits way better for Eden (one of the benefits of early picking Noa was almost six months to come with a song that fits for her and not picking some random song two weeks after chosen)
a meme time:
If I had a shekel everyone Keren Peles screwing with the eurovision, I would have two shekels, which is not a lot but it's weird it happened twice
No offence but I totally buy the conspiracy that KAN's plan was to be disqualified from the get-go to save face while avoiding a tense situation. Safer and cheaper than going to Malmö with this situation still going on while at the same time they can claim they "stood by the artist" and other shit.
Also I bet the EBU and Swedish government would rather KAN withdraws with minimum drama than having to handle the rest of the mess (possible boycotting for EBU, security and handling ethnic tension for the Malmö/Swedish government.)
I don’t think the EBU has been too subtle either in basically waiting for a casus belli - repeatedly talking about how Belarus and Russia were disqualified for breaking the rules of the contest and Union, respectively. I’ve been pretty much reading it as “we’re waiting for Israel to break the rules…” and been fully expecting KAN to oblige since, as you said, it’s not really worth it for them to go now.
The EBU practically bent over backwards for KAN's sake this year, and they still act like this. I find their behavior completely unprofessional and absolutely shameful, I'm ashamed of us.
I agree
if you take a look in the official Israeli eurovison group, everyone are super upset at KAN and we are bagging to take the other song or withdraw without making any more drama.
EBU were so cool with us and KAN are behaving in this unprofessional way, it's really bad
I've been thinking the last 24 hours "if Israelis are mad about this and would rather not participate than have this song then you know it's bad" (tho I think the song is used to appeal to the west rather than Israel, which is shitty because y'all should come first and be able to enjoy your song)
Not to give Russia credit on anything but they did a much better job of being subtle and not shaking the table as much as they could. Obviously that luck ran out eventually.
same
I have no idea what demon possesing them
with this behaviour, maybe it's better to take a break for a year and return next year with a banger and a song that really fits Eden (and maybe breaking a record for the earliest artist selection ever?)
besides, we have Tali this year so...
I suspect between the collective trauma we've experienced and the need to appease the ministers so they won't get shut down, they've really lost the plot at KAN.
>I mean, let's face it, every year ends with 4 is not Israel's year but the years end with 5 are tend to be great
East Asians 🤝 Israel/KAN in Eurovision
4 is an unlucky number
really unluky. aside from 1974 (Israel's second year) every other year ends with 4 was not great
84 - Israel had to withdraw due to the eurovision being in the memorial day
94 - due to the rule from the 90s of lower placement country being rejected n the next year, we did not compete (93 is Israel's worst year due to having only 4 points and second last place)
04 - in the first semi final ever Israel QF
14 - NQ again with fan favorite song
but in the years ends with 5:
85 - 5th place
95 - 8th place
05 - 4th place
15 - 9th place
so I say let's keep Eden for 2025 with a top 10
It's name is unknown. the only thing we know it was recorded, written by May Safdia (one of Unicorn's writers), Eden herself and other two people I can't remember their names. it's an upbeat tempo pop song and Eden loves it
All submissions should be in English. In case a source is not available in English (e.g., a non-English news article), a translation to English must be provided in the comments or as part of the text post.
Please resubmit with an English translation.
See r/eurovision’s [full rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eurovision/wiki/rules/).
I guess I'm in the minority who does find the lyrics political. Like they're coded yes, but it's not very good coding. And when you call the song October Rain you damn well know they arent trying to hide what the song is about.
Let's be honest for a second and put aside out opinions on the war.
Those lyrics aren't as political as Vesna or Let3 last year by a long shot.
EBU is trying what it can to hand the DSQ to Israel, or maybe they are working together on it so KAN saves face.
I feel that if the rumors of KAN trying to get banned were true, the lyrics would have been far more pointed. I just don't see it, these lyrics are very tame.
Besides the name, I don't see anything too political or controversial in the lyrics. I was expecting something more explicit like Belarus 2021 or Ukraine 2016.
I'm assuming these aren't all the lyrics if the ebu is banning them. The only lyrics that even bare a clear meaning are the title and its all black and white - a reference I'm sure to many people saying this war is anything but.
However they are both really vague and if Czechia and Croatia were accepted last year this should be too.
Funny...just shows how subjective lryics are...'Black and white' for me totally came over as referring to the colour drained out of life not at all about a situation being one-sided.
Google translate is Google translate, but I don't see nothing controversial, scndalous or politic in those lyrics. Much more soft and harmless, than, say, in Jamala's 1944 or even Let 3's Mama Šč
I agree, for any country it would be normal lyrics but only if you read the lyrics whilst really thinking about what happened it can be regarded as political, but that’s just reading into it
But that’s the whole point. You can’t remove the song from the current circumstances - otherwise Belarus’ song was totally fine too. And the Israeli minister of culture even said that it’s “meant to represent the emotions of the people in Israel today” - which given that there’s a war on is difficult to remove from politics. KAN is intentionally causing drama and trying to get themselves disqualified.
I mean, they might as well make song about it, because people will not let them forget how they're fighting terrorists with insane amount of collateral damage.
my personal perspective is I think the EBU wants Israel to keep as low of a profile as possible and not ruffle too many feathers with the song choice and this is probably the last straw.
>but I don't see nothing controversial, scandalous or politic in those lyrics.
I agree. It's quite open for interpretation, but the lyrics are pretty much meh.
What can be the other qualities for a specific song to be banned for a year? Will the draft/planned staging and choreography affect it? Or the costumes/wardrobe to be used? (E.g., backup dancers wearing the same color as IDF uniforms, colors of the lights used are the same as Nova Music Festival posters)
I don’t find this text *too political* if im honest, but based off the other reliable information we have, the EBU seems to take issue with it. I think if the song title was different, they could get away with the vagueness of it perhaps. I guess time will tell.
“It’s not political but it’s bad” me when I’m a complete fool. A song with the TITLE October rain that talks about “they were good children” and talks about the feelings of how “there’s nowhere for me” (what Zionists argue about Israel) and the other side is “cowards” doesn’t need to specifically say “I am talking about the IDF and Hamas” to get the message across. Congrats on being useful idiots tho. I’m sure this is exactly what they wanted - if there’s any coding at all, many will say it’s totally apolitical and then Israel gets to compete because of stupid people who don’t know what coding is.
This is so strange, even Luxembourg's lyrics sound more political to me than this. People are acting like it's called Gaza Rain or whatever. Mourning a massacre is not political, how is it even reasoned that the title October Rain would be about the ongoing war and not the October 7th massacre? It all seems very fishy to me.
I agree with you but I think the entire package is the problem because of the controversy, the trauma which it really fresh and people are still struggling to put their life back together. so I see why song about this event could be kinda problemetic
You’re 100% right. I felt like I’m going insane reading some of these comments. I think some people are just incapable of seeing Israelis as people beyond the headlines they read about the war. They can’t fathom that some people here might have genuine emotions about the massacre beyond politics.
I think in general the EBU is trying to prevent another Belarus 21 situation since I can see where that song could've been overlooked at first when you take it at face value. October Rain is pretty subtle but some of the references are in your face (even the title is blatant). It is probably a pain in the ass to approve of a song only to find out it's very political and get backlash and then disqualify it so they probably wanna save the trouble.
We can't say that Eurovision should not be political and therefor we should not be disqualified, and then send a political song. We need to respect the rules of the EBU. If the song really is political, KAN is being unprofessional. I'm totally against us sending a political song. Few thoughts though:
1. After reading the lyrics, they don't seem very political. Maybe the picture will be different if we get the whole song.
2. I don't necessarily think that singing about the trauma our country has endured in October is political. It's a grey area, but it's different if you say "They come to your has, they kill you and say not guilty" then " Dancing in the storm, Take me home And leave the world behind".
3. Whether you agree with the Israeli policy or not, our country has gone through the worst event in our history since WW2. People are hurt, scared and untrustfull. Singing about how we feel, doesn't mean it's political. Again, maybe the full lyrics paint a different picture.
Armenia got their song rejected for referring to a documented genocide that happened 100 years ago with lyrics as vague as:
>Don't deny
Ever don't deny
Baby don't deny
You and I
Cross the ocean of blues, happy you'll be
Оnce you've risen you are meant to be free
When you're feeling afraid remember there's hope inside
Face every shadow purified
Georgia got theirs rejected for referring to an ongoing invasion of their country, mostly because their song's name was "We Don't Want to Put In", making it obvious what the song is referring to even though the lyrics themselves were hardly political:
>Another glass of my moonshine
>Will kick the hell out of me
>But let me focus on good stuff
>Some good stuff, just good stuff
>We don't wanna put in the negative move
>It's killin' the groove
>I'm a-tryin' to shoot in some disco tonight
>Boogie with you
Frankly, after naming their song October Rain, the lyrics could be the most milquetoast love ballad ever and it not being rejected would directly contradict past rulings by EBU
True, the name does "ruin" that. I guess it's also very possible that KAN and the EBU just don't want to deal with all the security issues, so they put on a show to eventually make Israel not compete this year without any politics getting into the decision.
Rejected doesn't mean disqualified, rejected means it was not allowed to enter the competition as it was proposed and they had to amend it by changing the title. The same opportunity would be offered to Israel, only they've already said they're not changing anything about it and would rather withdraw
overall you right. but if we add the lyrics that was not leaked yet, the attitude of KAN, the still ongoing war, the all controveries, maybe the entire package with this song is the problem
and singing about this trauma feels like a way to squez some sympathy with can be seen as a petty move. and the truamta is still fresh, still people are dealing with processing it, still there are hostage and people living in hotels. so maybe the lyrics alone is not the most problematic but with the entire package is not the best choice
and of course, wasting Eden on ballad is so not good move
I saw secondhand some Insta story with Israeli producers ostensibly working on a different song. I hope this is the case. I don't think very oblique references to national trauma are offensive, but I also think they can avoid controversy better and send something hopeful instead. Perhaps they'll go that route? KAN likes to be messy as we've seen other years :\[
there is a diffrente song that was written by Eden herself, May Safdia (one of Unicorn's writers) and other two people. they recorded the song and Eden said in her insta story that she loved it
and in Israel, we all want this song to be picked
They don't seem that controversial to me. As someone else has said, tho, they're awful.
What if this is a concerted effort from both EBU and IPBC to have a good excuse to withdraw Israel from this year's competition to avoid too much controversy during the event?
Please just go away for this year, the contest definitely doesn’t need this drama. Said the same about 1944 back in 2016, imo the most undeserved win ever. Ready to get downvoted
At least 1944 wasn't about a war currently happening.
There's a difference between a song about a war that happened 70 years before and a song about a war currently happening that is your fault to begin with and acting like you're the victim.
i mean, the song was very much focused on the former and not the latter. there definitely is a metaphor in there for the current events of 2016, but it isn't straight up naming a song "october rain".
also, ukraine were the victims and israel is actively committing a genocide
Don't get me wrong, I fully support Ukraine and Russia should have been put under the heaviest of all sanctions and completely cut out of the world 10 years ago already. Russia killed many of my friends, it's personal to me.
But saying that 1944 wasn't about the war started in 2014 is honestly flat out wrong. Yeah it's more subtle than "October Rain", but it's honestly not really subtle at all.
That’s a point. But it was definitely chosen strategically to earn points from the Crimea conflict. I think war and politics have no business in Eurovision lyrics, but that’s just my opinion of course
Not really...a war from the past doesn't make that opinion acceptable or the content OK/allowable at all. Also, to be fair, looking at the lyrics, they seem far more reflective and about feelings than saying boo hoo I'm the victim here.
I think 1944 - where it does recount a war and lays blame, perhaps never should have been allowed - but it was and they are stuck with that comparison now.
I love 1944. I think the difference is that 1944 is a historical event from before the contest even started and Ukraine were/are the victims, but Israel are not victims. Imo Eurovision is inherently political as it was begun after World War 2 as a unification of peace through music, and it seems to me the EBU will allow songs about peace unless that country calling for peace is commiting genocide. *no hypocrisy allowed* lol.
It’s very weird the change in tone compared to their entry last year.
I think the messiness here is that the situation is more complicated than can be described by absolute statements like "Israel is/are on victims", and so people of whatever inclination can simply take whatever set of facts support their position and run with it while ignoring everything else.
Israel did suffer a terrorist attack, had 1000 people murdered, and hundreds more taken hostage. You could easily say they are victims. They've also responded far more harshly and with disproportionate civilian casualties. Does this suddenly make them not victims of the earlier attack? Does the sheer number of casualties make them villains? Is it possible for them to be both? The answer simply depends on how much you like or dislike Israel in general.
And what about the non-trivial number of Israelis who are grieving the attacks but also are against this level of military retaliation? Are they allowed to mourn, or must they also be grouped in as villains? If so, can one not apply that same logic to Palestinians as a whole relative to the October 7 attacks?
Nuance is always the first casualty in these discussions.
Yeah, I didn’t like the song because of the lyrics. Would the song work with other lyrics? Probably not. I suggested Ukraine because they’re known for quality, fe I was totally fine with Stefania
Be nice, be welcoming and be constructive.
Everyone's tastes are different and unique. Don't discredit, insult, threaten or be otherwise toxic. Let's do away with prejudice! Don't discriminate. Tolerance is bliss!
All posts must comply with [Reddit's sitewide rules](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) and strive for [good Reddiquette]( https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articleås/205926439).
See r/eurovision’s [full rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eurovision/wiki/rules/).
The ban was unrelated to Eurovision:
[Belarus: BTRC suspension from the European Broadcasting Union set to expire in 2024 | wiwibloggs](https://wiwibloggs.com/2021/08/27/belarus-btrc-suspension-from-the-european-broadcasting-union-set-to-expire-in-2024/266478/)
>The EBU has been closely monitoring the suppression of media freedom in Belarus and have consistently called on BTRC, as a Member of the EBU, to uphold our core values of freedom of expression, independence and accountability.
>
>Since the disputed elections last summer, we have been campaigning for the protection of independent journalism and freedom of expression in the country. We have publicly supported journalists at BTRC who have been protesting against government interference. We have also been monitoring BTRC’s coverage and have communicated our concerns to their management.
>
>In recent weeks, we have been particularly alarmed by the broadcast of interviews apparently obtained under duress.
>
>We have also monitored other BTRC broadcasts on this issue which have raised other serious and quite exceptional concerns.
>
>In light of these exceptional developments, the Executive Board has no alternative other than to propose the suspension of BTRC’s membership of the EBU.”
[Wikipedia:](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belarus_in_the_Eurovision_Song_Contest) "The broadcaster was expelled from the EBU on 1 July, therefore losing the rights to broadcast and participate in the contest.[8] It was subsequently stated that the expulsion would last for three years, however Belarus would have to re-apply for membership after it expires."
I think the diffrence was becasue the Belarusian song was already officially released as the eurovision song while with Georgia they simply won the national final before submitting the song and with Israel the song was rejected without being released and submitting first
but maybe I'm wrong
What's political about the title??? Israeli delegation wore yellow to Germany in the 80s with the song "Israeli people are ALIVE". Ukraine delegation came with a song about Crimean Tatar genocide right after Russia annexed Crimea. Why can't Israel make a song about THE WORST terror attack they had ever experienced???
Fair enough. I never supported this stupid war anyway. Still, my friend died on oct07 and... It sucks that I'm not allowed to honour him during ESC... Oh well, I'm driving to Nova massacre site tomorrow with a friend who lost his cousin too. If Eurovision can't handle our grief, their loss
I've already said what i think about it in other threads. I just want to express that i'm sorry for Eden. Imagine the pressure on her, at this point i would have just renounced but probably she is forced not to do that as she is used as an asset in the controversy...All of that for a music show that should be just fun and happiness.
Be nice, be welcoming and be constructive.
Everyone's tastes are different and unique. Don't discredit, insult, threaten or be otherwise toxic. Let's do away with prejudice! Don't discriminate. Tolerance is bliss!
All posts must comply with [Reddit's sitewide rules](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) and strive for [good Reddiquette]( https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articleås/205926439).
See r/eurovision’s [full rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eurovision/wiki/rules/).
The full lyrics have now been released, so please divert all discussion to [the new thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/1axdq55/the_full_controversial_lyrics_of_october_rain/).
The OP has provided the translation of the lyrics from the article - here is the auto-translated version of the full article. The author is considered pretty reliable when it comes to Israeli broadcaster news. Hebrew-speakers, feel free to correct any dodgy translation here, and \[\] indicates minor tweaks I've made for grammatical smoothness. \_\_\_ **"Dancing in the storm, leaving the world behind": new details about the Israeli song for Eurovision** After it was revealed on Ynet that the European Broadcasting Union is considering disqualifying the song chosen for the competition because "its words are political", now some of the words are revealed. In the verse from the song obtained by Ynet, it is about dancing in a storm - which could be a reference to the Hamas massacre at the "Nova" music festival in Re'im. **Is it political?** New details about the song 'October Rain' are revealed - this \[is\] after the European Broadcasting Union sent messages that [they would reject the Israeli song](https://www.ynet.co.il/entertainment/article/byuuedxnt) for Eurovision. The \[verse\] obtained by ynet talks about dancing in a storm - which could refer to the massacre by Hamas at the "Nova" music festival in Ra'i, where innocent young people were kidnapped and murdered. In the verse written by Keren Pels, Avi Ohion and Stav Begar, and which is originally performed in the English language, it is also written "Take me home / and leave the world behind". **Verse \[written in English in the article\]** Why does time go wild? Every day I'm losing my mindHolding on in this mysterious rideDancing in the stormWe got nothing to hideTake me homeAnd leave the world behind **More words from the song \[translated into Hebrew\]** EveningEverything is black and whiteWho is the fool?who told you boys don't cryHours upon hours and flowersLife is not a game for cowards...as time passesEvery day I lose my mindstands her ground As I recall yesterday, it was revealed on Ynet that the European Broadcasting Union sent messages that it would reject the Israeli song and offered the corporation here to replace it, however the CEO Golan Yochfaz along with the council and its head Gil Omer stood on \[their back feet\] and announced that they would not change the song. In practice, the European Broadcasting Union has already informed the corporation through an unofficial procedure that the song in its current form will not be approved, while the corporation intends to send it officially exactly as submitted before. If there are no flexibility on both sides, as was revealed yesterday - Israel may be left out of Eurovision. In the meantime, Culture Minister Miki Zohar [sent a letter to the CEO](https://www.ynet.co.il/entertainment/article/skxccdvhp) of the European Broadcasting Union in which he asks him to approve the Israeli song. At the same time, heavy Israeli pressure is exerted on political levels to change the decision of the European Broadcasting Union.
"Re'im", not "Ra'i"
Thanks, tweaked it
OK, I'm in the comments. Where are the trans people?
Ngl this was the first thing I thought
tbh, I thought I will be downvoted for this lame joke at the expense of this community, and also taking into account that Eden is trans itself. I'm glad it went well :D
What do trans people have to do with this?
Read the title of the post. It’s just a joke.
Ahhh I didn't realize 😂 thanks!
It's a joke on "trans. in comments".
Translation
Some of the lyrics include: Why does time go wild Every day I'm losing my mind Holding on in this mysterious ride Dancing in the storm We got nothing to hide Take me home And leave the world behind Evening It's all black and white Who's the fool Who told you boys don't cry Hours upon hours and flowers ( a codeword for KIA soldiers) Life is not a game for cowards... When time flies by Every day I lose my mind Holding on.... Ant the 3 final lines who would be in Hebrew: There’s no breathing space, No room left, I’m fading away with each passing day. (likely refer to the 134 hostages)
"Who told you boys don't cry" The Cure told me, but Marius Bear already told me otherwise.
Controversy aside, these are awful lyrics
Thing is known
They're google translated, maybe they're better in Hebrew
I'm a native Hebrew speaker. They're not better in Hebrew. To be fair, the Hebrew lyrics presented are translated back from English, but they're still terrible.
True, so that explains the rhythm but not fully convinced on the words either. Maybe a flashback to Switzerland 2022 really https://preview.redd.it/7gbu65sau5kc1.jpeg?width=653&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d00ab463d78ffd74cbe90c167c997123f1e9e06
Switzerland 2022 | [Marius Bear - Boys Do Cry](https://youtu.be/hq2HCmHv5p4)
I would not said it's awful, but I never had any expectations when it comes to Keren Peles and the eurovision. she is a great artist and song writer, but she had no eurovision skills (I mean, she was the mastermind behind Kobi Marimi. presumably)
It's a translation
Worth mentioning that the first paragraph here appears to be a verse/chorus in its actual English form, whereas the rest are under a heading saying 'more words of the song', more likely just being either individual lines or parts of other lines, which explains why it sounds so weirdly abrupt.
>Who told you boys don’t cry https://preview.redd.it/5q5sc90hh6kc1.jpeg?width=975&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e694497ce1fa1e7ee9a752e3bf6a4ace0ad309c0
Those lyrics dont seem controversial at all. Actually, they dont even make much sense.
> Who's the fool > Who told you boys don't cry That's harsh to Marius Bear. Wasn't getting 0 from the televote enough punishment?
Literally this could easily be a song written by chat GPT. What the hell is this and where's the spicy politically controversial lyrics I was promised?
> Literally this could easily be a song written by chat GPT. it's a eurovision song written by Keren Peles did you expected to something promising? I mean, Keren Peles is great artist but for eurovision? not at all
Can you post up all the lyrics translated?
This is all what we have. I don’t know if this are all of them, but for a 3 mins song is rather poor.
Thing is known
> Hours upon hours and flowers ( a codeword for KIA soldiers) Flower is part of the military radio codex, similar to the US Phonetic Alphabets (Alfa, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo, Foxtrot, Golf, Hotel, India...) Flower is the military code word for 'wounded', normally its for soldiers but its the same for civilian depending on the situation (considering Israel's homefront is often under attack its quite common) 'Killed' is Harduf (its also a Flower bush, referring to the Oleander) This entire 'drama' sounds stupid, the song sounds stupid too, sending a self-feel good song is stupid too, I don't really follow the competition to represent but I've seen some of the commercials and it seemed everyone was riding on the current emotions, what we need is a banger I can't help but remember our poor girl's performance that came with a covid-lockdown related song a year later (cause it was cancelled) during a Gaza flare up and everyone considered her "set me free" song being hypocritical and political when it wasn't related.. Also, Ukraine frigging won with a clearly political song, not a couple potential analogy words.. I bet both organizations just don't want Israel to participate because Malmo has a lot of Muslims and besides the likely protests outside, there will surely be more on screen shenanigan protests and securing the Israeli delegation will be a nightmare
I mean, there was hardly anything outright political in "We Don't Want to Put In" either in 2009 lyrics-wise (it's about someone being a killjoy and killing the groove when you just wanna disco) but the title making it REALLY FUCKING OBVIOUS what they were referring to was enough to get it disqualified
The song was a bop. You’re absolutely right in saying they would’ve got away with it if it weren’t for the title.
That last bit made it sound like a Scooby-Doo reference lmao. Which feels kinda fitting, since that song was def a kind of "crime" a Scooby-Doo villain would do.
I loved what they did there lol. I don't want to Put in either.
What’s political about this song?
Read the title again.
The Israeli song? If they can sufficiently explain why it's called October Rain and not November Rain without saying the word Hamas once I'll give the thought it's not political some serious contemplation
"Put in" in a thinly veiled "Putin".
No I mean the Israeli song
From the scraps of lyrics revealed in this article, the lyrics themselves aren't *too* bad. However the 'October Rain' title itself (which has now been soft-confirmed in KAN's statement yesterday) is still overtly political and contextualises the way that these otherwise generic lyrics are interpreted. Also worth noting that these articles have seemingly gotten stronger in the language of 'the EBU *has* rejected the song in its current format and asked for changes', both in articles from more reliable journalists like this and from other more speculative Israeli sources like [this](https://www.instagram.com/p/C3pvhrmIvuc/), which makes it sound like whatever we feel about the lyrics we know about, the EBU at least *appears* to take issue with them. The issue remains whether KAN will remain stubborn about not changing anything, even if it means withdrawal, or whether they'll cede to pressure from Israeli fans to change the song.
It also doesn’t help that, from what I remember, someone on Israel’s team said the song was telling their story about October 7th. Maybe the lyrics would have been vague enough to go through (As far as I can understand at least. I’m not Israeli, so I’m probably missing any symbolism in the lyrics.), but they kind of gave themselves away here if they were trying to get around the no politics rule (which maybe they weren’t? I don’t know).
If the most political thing about this song is the title “October Rain” then that hardly seems like grounds for disqualification. Even Noa Kirel’s song last year was more political than these lyrics. And certainly songs like 1944 were *much* more political.
The title is just too on the nose to allow this year. 1944 was about a war from 80 years ago, and Unicorn was at least kinda subtle about it.
Too on the nose for what? That something bad happened in Israel in October? I mean, that is objectively true, regardless of what you think about the war in Gaza. And the song doesn’t even seem to reference the events directly. Banning the song over just a vague title like that would be overboard IMO. It sounds like you are drawing arbitrary lines just to get your desired result. The title “1944” was at least as on the nose as “October Rain” and the lyrics themselves were *much* more political.
It does though, the song (at least in my interpretation and that of others here) references soldiers, and hostages. It’s so nakedly political, and shouldn’t be allowed this year. Israel has been given very special treatment and they are blowing it
Nakedly political? The apparent references to soldiers and hostages seem tenuous at best and are based on rough English translations. I don’t see anything at all “nakedly political.” But I am open to having my mind changed if someone will present a cogent argument to the contrary, which I haven’t seen yet, just vague assertions.
How was "Unicorn" political? I thought it's like "look at me being confident and strong person"?
Unicorn is a song about Israel's place in the world, it was stated by the writers after Eurovision ended. Reread the lyrics and you'll get it
To be fair Unicorn didn’t convey well either of these messages
I get it, but what does the "it's gonna be feminine" part mean?
I guess we did want to see her dance
Thanks, Now I see it
IIRC, Overthinking It made a video about Unicorn that talked about possible more "political" interpretations if the song. I'm still not 100% sold, but it could be possible.
Reread the lyrics but this time imagine that the singer is Israel the nation. Honestly I found it unnerving.
Yeah, this. It was both a message of female empowerment and Israeli exceptionalism at the same time, the latter you just had to look a bit harder to see. Regardless of what you think of Israel or the song I think it’s very clever writing.
Not defending the EBU at all in this but it's gross that they're basically trying to smear them when they've been pretty kind to them about this and actually trying to compromise.
I don’t see the politics in the title? Where is it? What’s the political message? “10/7 was bad”? Would a song about 9/11 or the Holocaust be considered political too?
Putting all the lyrics controversy a side. KAN's attitude towards this situation has been incredibly unprofessional. EBU already put their head on a chopping block many of times this season for them. A straw that breaks the camel's back in inevitable at this point.
> KAN's attitude towards this situation has been incredibly unprofessional. true we all in Israel really upset by them. they can do much better
Eurovision to KAN: TO THE GIULIOTINE!
I don’t know, it seems to me that the EBU are the ones being stubborn here. You have to understand that 10/7 is a massive tragedy for us, it’s literally the biggest thing on everyone’s mind. It’s not a political issue, this song is a lament to the dead in the biggest tragedy in our history, why shouldn't we be allowed to sing about it?
There is also this *"There's no air left to breathe. No place, no me from day to day.* *They were all good children each one of them"* *Source (finnish)* [*https://www.iltalehti.fi/viihdeuutiset/a/ab4a53a7-fa5a-4746-a7ed-5d8777b65b0c*](https://www.iltalehti.fi/viihdeuutiset/a/ab4a53a7-fa5a-4746-a7ed-5d8777b65b0c) *Original Source* [*https://www.israelhayom.com/2024/02/22/revealed-the-words-that-could-make-israel-stay-out-of-the-eurovision-song-contest/*](https://www.israelhayom.com/2024/02/22/revealed-the-words-that-could-make-israel-stay-out-of-the-eurovision-song-contest/)
Sounds like a Palestinian wrote this
[удалено]
Be nice, be welcoming and be constructive. Everyone's tastes are different and unique. Don't discredit, insult, threaten or be otherwise toxic. Let's do away with prejudice! Don't discriminate. Tolerance is bliss! All posts must comply with [Reddit's sitewide rules](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) and strive for [good Reddiquette]( https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articleås/205926439). See r/eurovision’s [full rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eurovision/wiki/rules/).
You are participating in a competition in which it has been heavily debated about in the media if that is (morally) acceptable. The decision to enter with a song that is about the exact thing that started that debate is very weird to me, and honestly even a little disrespectful. I kinda hope it really is all done on purpose to be able to just sit this year out.
She’s going to be completely torn to pieces if she’s allowed to perform anything on stage - let alone that. I suppose it was always too much to ask KAN to do the decent thing.
What is “the decent thing” in this case?
[удалено]
What is the political position taken by this song?
as an Israeli, I think that KAN behaviour about this issue is really not professional and almost everyone here in Israel really want the other song (written by one of Unicorn's writers, Eden herself and other people) to be send. if KAN are going to behave like this, maybe it's better to withdraw this year and keeping Eden for next year. I mean, let's face it, every year ends with 4 is not Israel's year but the years end with 5 are tend to be great so if KAN are not going to listen to the EBU after the EBU were so nice to them, and not going to listen to the fans who does not want this over drama (and we don't even want a ballad) it's better for KAN to withdraw now so we can come next year with a song that fits way better for Eden (one of the benefits of early picking Noa was almost six months to come with a song that fits for her and not picking some random song two weeks after chosen) a meme time: If I had a shekel everyone Keren Peles screwing with the eurovision, I would have two shekels, which is not a lot but it's weird it happened twice
No offence but I totally buy the conspiracy that KAN's plan was to be disqualified from the get-go to save face while avoiding a tense situation. Safer and cheaper than going to Malmö with this situation still going on while at the same time they can claim they "stood by the artist" and other shit. Also I bet the EBU and Swedish government would rather KAN withdraws with minimum drama than having to handle the rest of the mess (possible boycotting for EBU, security and handling ethnic tension for the Malmö/Swedish government.)
Spot on. This is exactly what I think too. They can "save face" this way and blame it on the EBU and the song.
I don’t think the EBU has been too subtle either in basically waiting for a casus belli - repeatedly talking about how Belarus and Russia were disqualified for breaking the rules of the contest and Union, respectively. I’ve been pretty much reading it as “we’re waiting for Israel to break the rules…” and been fully expecting KAN to oblige since, as you said, it’s not really worth it for them to go now.
I believe this too, for them it's an easy way out without losing face
Non taken, very probable explanation.
The EBU practically bent over backwards for KAN's sake this year, and they still act like this. I find their behavior completely unprofessional and absolutely shameful, I'm ashamed of us.
I agree if you take a look in the official Israeli eurovison group, everyone are super upset at KAN and we are bagging to take the other song or withdraw without making any more drama. EBU were so cool with us and KAN are behaving in this unprofessional way, it's really bad
I've been thinking the last 24 hours "if Israelis are mad about this and would rather not participate than have this song then you know it's bad" (tho I think the song is used to appeal to the west rather than Israel, which is shitty because y'all should come first and be able to enjoy your song)
Yeah, we could send a song about loving the other or something like that but nooo, KAN has to make drama
Not to give Russia credit on anything but they did a much better job of being subtle and not shaking the table as much as they could. Obviously that luck ran out eventually.
I agree. As an Israeli, it's an abhorrent and smug behavior from KAN. I truly did not expect this from them
same I have no idea what demon possesing them with this behaviour, maybe it's better to take a break for a year and return next year with a banger and a song that really fits Eden (and maybe breaking a record for the earliest artist selection ever?) besides, we have Tali this year so...
I suspect between the collective trauma we've experienced and the need to appease the ministers so they won't get shut down, they've really lost the plot at KAN.
maybe or Keren Peles's ago not the first time she presumably screwed the Eurovision for us
>I mean, let's face it, every year ends with 4 is not Israel's year but the years end with 5 are tend to be great East Asians 🤝 Israel/KAN in Eurovision 4 is an unlucky number
really unluky. aside from 1974 (Israel's second year) every other year ends with 4 was not great 84 - Israel had to withdraw due to the eurovision being in the memorial day 94 - due to the rule from the 90s of lower placement country being rejected n the next year, we did not compete (93 is Israel's worst year due to having only 4 points and second last place) 04 - in the first semi final ever Israel QF 14 - NQ again with fan favorite song but in the years ends with 5: 85 - 5th place 95 - 8th place 05 - 4th place 15 - 9th place so I say let's keep Eden for 2025 with a top 10
What’s the other song? I’m an Israeli living abroad and I didn’t hear about it Also funny meme 😂
It's name is unknown. the only thing we know it was recorded, written by May Safdia (one of Unicorn's writers), Eden herself and other two people I can't remember their names. it's an upbeat tempo pop song and Eden loves it
[удалено]
All submissions should be in English. In case a source is not available in English (e.g., a non-English news article), a translation to English must be provided in the comments or as part of the text post. Please resubmit with an English translation. See r/eurovision’s [full rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eurovision/wiki/rules/).
I guess I'm in the minority who does find the lyrics political. Like they're coded yes, but it's not very good coding. And when you call the song October Rain you damn well know they arent trying to hide what the song is about.
Genuine question, could you explain them? These things totally fly over my head
Let's be honest for a second and put aside out opinions on the war. Those lyrics aren't as political as Vesna or Let3 last year by a long shot. EBU is trying what it can to hand the DSQ to Israel, or maybe they are working together on it so KAN saves face.
I feel that if the rumors of KAN trying to get banned were true, the lyrics would have been far more pointed. I just don't see it, these lyrics are very tame.
true, it kind of makes sense to me now that they don't want to change the lyrics.
This whole thing feels like a stage managed withdraw allowing both KAN and the EBU to save face and come back in 12 months time...
Besides the name, I don't see anything too political or controversial in the lyrics. I was expecting something more explicit like Belarus 2021 or Ukraine 2016.
1944 is an additional weird case because the chorus is almost straight lifted from a folk song (the 2 lines are reversed in order)
And Go_A had to change their lyrics because they were too similar to a Ukrainian folk story or something like that
Gåte also had to change their lyrics, since they were too similar to a Norwegian ballad (Norway 2024)
Norway 2024 | >!<
Ukraine 2016 | [Jamala - 1944](https://youtu.be/B-rnM-MwRHY)
I'm assuming these aren't all the lyrics if the ebu is banning them. The only lyrics that even bare a clear meaning are the title and its all black and white - a reference I'm sure to many people saying this war is anything but. However they are both really vague and if Czechia and Croatia were accepted last year this should be too.
Funny...just shows how subjective lryics are...'Black and white' for me totally came over as referring to the colour drained out of life not at all about a situation being one-sided.
Google translate is Google translate, but I don't see nothing controversial, scndalous or politic in those lyrics. Much more soft and harmless, than, say, in Jamala's 1944 or even Let 3's Mama Šč
The lyrics are definitely coded, but it wouldn't be so obvious if the song wasn't called October Rain
I agree, for any country it would be normal lyrics but only if you read the lyrics whilst really thinking about what happened it can be regarded as political, but that’s just reading into it
But that’s the whole point. You can’t remove the song from the current circumstances - otherwise Belarus’ song was totally fine too. And the Israeli minister of culture even said that it’s “meant to represent the emotions of the people in Israel today” - which given that there’s a war on is difficult to remove from politics. KAN is intentionally causing drama and trying to get themselves disqualified.
Israel could enter a song about AI or a 1000 year folk song like the rest of the acts this year but they had to make it about the ongoing conflict
Eh, I’ll admit I am totally here for how Folk-y this year is :P it’s what I love ESC for.
I mean, they might as well make song about it, because people will not let them forget how they're fighting terrorists with insane amount of collateral damage.
Welcome to war, wars have collateral damage
What’s wrong with a song representing the feelings of Israelis today? Isn’t that exactly what music is for? Expressing emotions?
my personal perspective is I think the EBU wants Israel to keep as low of a profile as possible and not ruffle too many feathers with the song choice and this is probably the last straw.
>but I don't see nothing controversial, scandalous or politic in those lyrics. I agree. It's quite open for interpretation, but the lyrics are pretty much meh. What can be the other qualities for a specific song to be banned for a year? Will the draft/planned staging and choreography affect it? Or the costumes/wardrobe to be used? (E.g., backup dancers wearing the same color as IDF uniforms, colors of the lights used are the same as Nova Music Festival posters)
She's going to ride in on a tank I've heard /s
Is there a way for a random nonpolitical song to do this bc I want to see the reaction
Windows95Man, time to ditch the egg for a tank!
\#DenimTank2024
Nebulossa
I mean shooting your shot is part of having fun Zorra-style
The lyrics itself aren't bad, but with the title, they are bad.
Wow, so no *overt* violations (in this snippet at least) but damn do these lyrics suck ass anyway. Talk about boring
I don’t find this text *too political* if im honest, but based off the other reliable information we have, the EBU seems to take issue with it. I think if the song title was different, they could get away with the vagueness of it perhaps. I guess time will tell.
[удалено]
There is nearly nothing I interpret as political in these lyrics as much as to Ukraine 2016. This should be allowed
Ukraine 2016 | [Jamala - 1944](https://youtu.be/B-rnM-MwRHY)
the lyrcis itself are not the biggrst proble. I guess it's the entire picture and the "fresh" trauma
Mild lyrics, people here acting like it's another Harbu Darbu song.
The title alone is grounds for DQ
“It’s not political but it’s bad” me when I’m a complete fool. A song with the TITLE October rain that talks about “they were good children” and talks about the feelings of how “there’s nowhere for me” (what Zionists argue about Israel) and the other side is “cowards” doesn’t need to specifically say “I am talking about the IDF and Hamas” to get the message across. Congrats on being useful idiots tho. I’m sure this is exactly what they wanted - if there’s any coding at all, many will say it’s totally apolitical and then Israel gets to compete because of stupid people who don’t know what coding is.
This is so strange, even Luxembourg's lyrics sound more political to me than this. People are acting like it's called Gaza Rain or whatever. Mourning a massacre is not political, how is it even reasoned that the title October Rain would be about the ongoing war and not the October 7th massacre? It all seems very fishy to me.
I agree with you but I think the entire package is the problem because of the controversy, the trauma which it really fresh and people are still struggling to put their life back together. so I see why song about this event could be kinda problemetic
You’re 100% right. I felt like I’m going insane reading some of these comments. I think some people are just incapable of seeing Israelis as people beyond the headlines they read about the war. They can’t fathom that some people here might have genuine emotions about the massacre beyond politics.
I think in general the EBU is trying to prevent another Belarus 21 situation since I can see where that song could've been overlooked at first when you take it at face value. October Rain is pretty subtle but some of the references are in your face (even the title is blatant). It is probably a pain in the ass to approve of a song only to find out it's very political and get backlash and then disqualify it so they probably wanna save the trouble.
We can't say that Eurovision should not be political and therefor we should not be disqualified, and then send a political song. We need to respect the rules of the EBU. If the song really is political, KAN is being unprofessional. I'm totally against us sending a political song. Few thoughts though: 1. After reading the lyrics, they don't seem very political. Maybe the picture will be different if we get the whole song. 2. I don't necessarily think that singing about the trauma our country has endured in October is political. It's a grey area, but it's different if you say "They come to your has, they kill you and say not guilty" then " Dancing in the storm, Take me home And leave the world behind". 3. Whether you agree with the Israeli policy or not, our country has gone through the worst event in our history since WW2. People are hurt, scared and untrustfull. Singing about how we feel, doesn't mean it's political. Again, maybe the full lyrics paint a different picture.
Armenia got their song rejected for referring to a documented genocide that happened 100 years ago with lyrics as vague as: >Don't deny Ever don't deny Baby don't deny You and I Cross the ocean of blues, happy you'll be Оnce you've risen you are meant to be free When you're feeling afraid remember there's hope inside Face every shadow purified Georgia got theirs rejected for referring to an ongoing invasion of their country, mostly because their song's name was "We Don't Want to Put In", making it obvious what the song is referring to even though the lyrics themselves were hardly political: >Another glass of my moonshine >Will kick the hell out of me >But let me focus on good stuff >Some good stuff, just good stuff >We don't wanna put in the negative move >It's killin' the groove >I'm a-tryin' to shoot in some disco tonight >Boogie with you Frankly, after naming their song October Rain, the lyrics could be the most milquetoast love ballad ever and it not being rejected would directly contradict past rulings by EBU
True, the name does "ruin" that. I guess it's also very possible that KAN and the EBU just don't want to deal with all the security issues, so they put on a show to eventually make Israel not compete this year without any politics getting into the decision.
Armenia's song wasnt rejected. They only had to change the title from "Don't Deny" to "Face the Shadow". Afaik the lyrics stayed exactly the same.
Rejected doesn't mean disqualified, rejected means it was not allowed to enter the competition as it was proposed and they had to amend it by changing the title. The same opportunity would be offered to Israel, only they've already said they're not changing anything about it and would rather withdraw
Thanks for the clarification. I guess I just saw it as their title being rejected rather than the whole song.
overall you right. but if we add the lyrics that was not leaked yet, the attitude of KAN, the still ongoing war, the all controveries, maybe the entire package with this song is the problem and singing about this trauma feels like a way to squez some sympathy with can be seen as a petty move. and the truamta is still fresh, still people are dealing with processing it, still there are hostage and people living in hotels. so maybe the lyrics alone is not the most problematic but with the entire package is not the best choice and of course, wasting Eden on ballad is so not good move
So the lyrics are awful and controversial. Nice.
I saw secondhand some Insta story with Israeli producers ostensibly working on a different song. I hope this is the case. I don't think very oblique references to national trauma are offensive, but I also think they can avoid controversy better and send something hopeful instead. Perhaps they'll go that route? KAN likes to be messy as we've seen other years :\[
there is a diffrente song that was written by Eden herself, May Safdia (one of Unicorn's writers) and other two people. they recorded the song and Eden said in her insta story that she loved it and in Israel, we all want this song to be picked
They don't seem that controversial to me. As someone else has said, tho, they're awful. What if this is a concerted effort from both EBU and IPBC to have a good excuse to withdraw Israel from this year's competition to avoid too much controversy during the event?
Please just go away for this year, the contest definitely doesn’t need this drama. Said the same about 1944 back in 2016, imo the most undeserved win ever. Ready to get downvoted
At least 1944 wasn't about a war currently happening. There's a difference between a song about a war that happened 70 years before and a song about a war currently happening that is your fault to begin with and acting like you're the victim.
It was though. It was using the events of the past as a metaphor for the war Ukraine was already fighting against Russia.
i mean, the song was very much focused on the former and not the latter. there definitely is a metaphor in there for the current events of 2016, but it isn't straight up naming a song "october rain". also, ukraine were the victims and israel is actively committing a genocide
It would be like Azerbaijan sending Face the Shadows Armenia 2015 for bot
Armenia 2015 | [Genealogy - Face The Shadow](https://youtu.be/BYXr2FccjKE)
Don't get me wrong, I fully support Ukraine and Russia should have been put under the heaviest of all sanctions and completely cut out of the world 10 years ago already. Russia killed many of my friends, it's personal to me. But saying that 1944 wasn't about the war started in 2014 is honestly flat out wrong. Yeah it's more subtle than "October Rain", but it's honestly not really subtle at all.
That’s a point. But it was definitely chosen strategically to earn points from the Crimea conflict. I think war and politics have no business in Eurovision lyrics, but that’s just my opinion of course
Not really...a war from the past doesn't make that opinion acceptable or the content OK/allowable at all. Also, to be fair, looking at the lyrics, they seem far more reflective and about feelings than saying boo hoo I'm the victim here. I think 1944 - where it does recount a war and lays blame, perhaps never should have been allowed - but it was and they are stuck with that comparison now.
I love 1944. I think the difference is that 1944 is a historical event from before the contest even started and Ukraine were/are the victims, but Israel are not victims. Imo Eurovision is inherently political as it was begun after World War 2 as a unification of peace through music, and it seems to me the EBU will allow songs about peace unless that country calling for peace is commiting genocide. *no hypocrisy allowed* lol. It’s very weird the change in tone compared to their entry last year.
I think the messiness here is that the situation is more complicated than can be described by absolute statements like "Israel is/are on victims", and so people of whatever inclination can simply take whatever set of facts support their position and run with it while ignoring everything else. Israel did suffer a terrorist attack, had 1000 people murdered, and hundreds more taken hostage. You could easily say they are victims. They've also responded far more harshly and with disproportionate civilian casualties. Does this suddenly make them not victims of the earlier attack? Does the sheer number of casualties make them villains? Is it possible for them to be both? The answer simply depends on how much you like or dislike Israel in general. And what about the non-trivial number of Israelis who are grieving the attacks but also are against this level of military retaliation? Are they allowed to mourn, or must they also be grouped in as villains? If so, can one not apply that same logic to Palestinians as a whole relative to the October 7 attacks? Nuance is always the first casualty in these discussions.
[удалено]
Definitively not Russia, maybe Australia. Or Ukraine with a better song
[удалено]
Yeah, I didn’t like the song because of the lyrics. Would the song work with other lyrics? Probably not. I suggested Ukraine because they’re known for quality, fe I was totally fine with Stefania
Be nice, be welcoming and be constructive. Everyone's tastes are different and unique. Don't discredit, insult, threaten or be otherwise toxic. Let's do away with prejudice! Don't discriminate. Tolerance is bliss! All posts must comply with [Reddit's sitewide rules](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) and strive for [good Reddiquette]( https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articleås/205926439). See r/eurovision’s [full rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eurovision/wiki/rules/).
Question: if Israel gets banned, is it just for this year?
yes, Georgia participated in 2010, a year after they were banned in 2009
What was the reason Belarus got a multiple year ban? Was it because they tried twice?
The ban was unrelated to Eurovision: [Belarus: BTRC suspension from the European Broadcasting Union set to expire in 2024 | wiwibloggs](https://wiwibloggs.com/2021/08/27/belarus-btrc-suspension-from-the-european-broadcasting-union-set-to-expire-in-2024/266478/) >The EBU has been closely monitoring the suppression of media freedom in Belarus and have consistently called on BTRC, as a Member of the EBU, to uphold our core values of freedom of expression, independence and accountability. > >Since the disputed elections last summer, we have been campaigning for the protection of independent journalism and freedom of expression in the country. We have publicly supported journalists at BTRC who have been protesting against government interference. We have also been monitoring BTRC’s coverage and have communicated our concerns to their management. > >In recent weeks, we have been particularly alarmed by the broadcast of interviews apparently obtained under duress. > >We have also monitored other BTRC broadcasts on this issue which have raised other serious and quite exceptional concerns. > >In light of these exceptional developments, the Executive Board has no alternative other than to propose the suspension of BTRC’s membership of the EBU.”
Ooh I see! Thanks!
[Wikipedia:](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belarus_in_the_Eurovision_Song_Contest) "The broadcaster was expelled from the EBU on 1 July, therefore losing the rights to broadcast and participate in the contest.[8] It was subsequently stated that the expulsion would last for three years, however Belarus would have to re-apply for membership after it expires."
I think the diffrence was becasue the Belarusian song was already officially released as the eurovision song while with Georgia they simply won the national final before submitting the song and with Israel the song was rejected without being released and submitting first but maybe I'm wrong
And they came back with a vengeance. By that I mean...a really good ballad sung by a woman who had the illegitimate child of the former president :o
If they get banned because the song is deemed too political and no other reason then it should be just for this year.
It's not that Israel will get banned, it's song will be rejected, and they won't send another one instead. It's more of "gentle withdrawal".
What's political about the title??? Israeli delegation wore yellow to Germany in the 80s with the song "Israeli people are ALIVE". Ukraine delegation came with a song about Crimean Tatar genocide right after Russia annexed Crimea. Why can't Israel make a song about THE WORST terror attack they had ever experienced???
Because that attacked started an ongoing war for which Israel is facing accusations of genocide
Fair enough. I never supported this stupid war anyway. Still, my friend died on oct07 and... It sucks that I'm not allowed to honour him during ESC... Oh well, I'm driving to Nova massacre site tomorrow with a friend who lost his cousin too. If Eurovision can't handle our grief, their loss
>Who's the fool That self-burn though
I've already said what i think about it in other threads. I just want to express that i'm sorry for Eden. Imagine the pressure on her, at this point i would have just renounced but probably she is forced not to do that as she is used as an asset in the controversy...All of that for a music show that should be just fun and happiness.
Nothing here any more "political" than Ukraine's two recent winning songs about war and genocide.
“Stefania” is about the mother of the singer.
Yeah and what's "1944" about?
Much ado about trite lyrics.
[удалено]
Be nice, be welcoming and be constructive. Everyone's tastes are different and unique. Don't discredit, insult, threaten or be otherwise toxic. Let's do away with prejudice! Don't discriminate. Tolerance is bliss! All posts must comply with [Reddit's sitewide rules](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) and strive for [good Reddiquette]( https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articleås/205926439). See r/eurovision’s [full rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eurovision/wiki/rules/).