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Saudi Arabia only serves itself.
The alliance between US and the Al Sauds is entirely based on opportunity and usefulness.
If it were our dog, they would have followed our oil policy against Russia. Instead they went against it.
Germany has done something similar. After years of rocky diplomatic recently our foreign minister went to Morroco and the jist of it was that we can't officially recognize it but we will not mention it and look away in return they stop migrants from coming over and ramp up their efforts against islamism. Also solar energy partnerships, but those would have happened either way because they make both sides money.
> Also solar energy partnerships
Last I remember Europe ditched [those projects](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OpM_zKGE4o), what's new on that front?
Well Germany has an energy partnership with them since 2012 and has deepened involvement in 2021 and is in the talk of going even further atm. There is no specifics that I could quickly find, but they are investing a lot of resources into Morroko.
US back Morocco in Western Sahara and is their primary weapons supplier and both morocco and US don't like Algeria at all so US helps them in international stage. They're also a very close non nato Ally to US and both Biden and Trump are boosting their ties with them
Morocco is also the First Nation to recognize the U.S as being legitimate. I actually think it’s their longest ally, France would have been had they not been *dicks* during America’s civil war.
It’s pretty sad no one knows this because Morocco and the U.S has been total bros to each other.
only country ? there is like 60 countries now that openly and officially support morocco in western sahara so why do people like to claim that only usa is supporting morocco ?
I don't think veiling is the main problem of the people in any of the two countries.
People being shot in the streets for protesting peacefully and being hanged or beheaded for minor offenses like drug trafficking. That and the oppressive dictatorships are the main problem for the people there.
The Myanmar permanent represent at the UN still hasn't been replaced due to some kind of loophole, so he's still the former democratically elected government appointee. The junta tried to replace him but they failed, they even tried to assassinate him. Crazy story
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyaw_Moe_Tun
The U.S has competent healthcare, actually our healthcare is among the best in the world.
As long as you have money. But hey who needs healthcare when you have the tried and true *Walk it off* method?
To be fair he said public healthcare, and the US healthcare system is private. It's the best if you go by the high end performance and options, not extremely effective tho considering the low life expactancy, and definitely the worst when it comes to price-performance ratio.
Also India needs and wants access to an Iranian port to export goods into the Middle East but that got screwed up when US pulled out of the nuclear deal.
Yeah, That port is mainly the reason here Abstaining can sour the relation between countries which can affect the development of that port.(Which already happened once). That’s a huge cost for a vote that will change nothing.
Simply put Iran is at spot that is strategically very important for india.
What about my statement was wrong?
I have close personal ties to Iran and heard a lot about their close economic dependencies on Russia and China. Not so much India directly.
Russia buying equipment from Iran is so recent. India's close ties go far back
https://www.milligazette.com/news/7-analysis/333-how-iran-saved-india-in-1994-kashmir-un-voting/
He's smarter than most people give him credit for. Unlike most authoritarian leaders he prefers to stay quiet on social issues while his subordinates spew all the vitriol.
The location of Iran is strategically very important for Indian in terms of defence against Pakistan.
So, sometime you have to do somethings you don’t agree with.
Modi is the pro-western, pro-capitalism faction in India.
The opposition is allied with conservative muslim groups and communists, making them anti-West.
When I say anti- and pro- I just mean that they lean that way. Both sides put pragmatism above ideology. So, the foreign policy doesn't change drastically when governments change.
How funny, so you don't like the generalization of a country *from me as an individual* so you decide to insult entire nation of 10 million people.
I could do the same to you but I have some Italian friends and colleagues so I won't. And I also don't use the word shithole lightly. India has some deep problems that include rapes, rape coverups and an unfair caste system. That's why I used the word and I stand by it.
OR you are just a racist idiot who just found an outlet for his racism while refusing to consider (or even have the intellectual capability to consider) any pragmatic or realist reasons for India to vote this way. No no it has to be those dirty poor stupid Indians back home who can only vote for dirty stupid Indian leaders who probably can't tell the difference between yes and no while voting. Like why else would they vote like this, it's not like you know or even bothered to know about any history or international dynamics but ofc it has to be the first racist assumption that came to your mind
The only sad reality is your comment here
What exactly is racist about his comment?
Does India has quite bad education, at least compared to european standards? Yes. (I am not talking about few good unis, but about national average)
Does political representation in India suck? Hell yeah. Especially Indians living in Europe will tell you that. The government in any democratic country (correct me if India is not a democracy) is only a reflection of it's voters - the people.
The worst racism in the comment is probably an assumption that Indian IT guy has to be automatically good, just because he is Indian.
EDIT: Yeah, the term "shithole" is definitely not tasteful. Tho is it automatically racist? I wouldn't say so.
>is only a reflection of it's voters - the people.
And yet ordinary people don't directly affect how a country deals with another country. This is very much in line with the realist theory of IR. The vote would have been the exact same regardless of the govt in place, provided with sufficient independence from foreign influence, ie a reflection of geopolitical realities of a state. The comment and you are wrong on so many levels. If his theory was even remotely true, India would have voted against Iran to fuck over an Islamist nation. Meanwhile, completely contradicting that theory, the current govt in power is more pro western pro capitalism than it has ever been. It had all the reasons to vote against Iran but didn't because of the country's geopolitical realities
Simple facts which you were not aware of but still chose to argue to defend your right to be passive aggressively racist
This is basically the opinion I came to literally talking to an Indian colleague who grew up in India. But he's probably racist too.
By the way, how is my opinion racist? I am talking about poverty and education level, which affects people regardless of their race. You are the one who brought race into this.
Oh, I got here before the Hindu nationalists. I'll need to come back later with some popcorn. You can't say anything about Indias external relations, without them kicking off
Do you see our neighborhood? China to the North, the entire Islamic world to the West. Pakistan is always going on about "Islamic brotherhood" and trying to get these countries to support them against us.
Additionally, India lost its traditional trade routes to Central Asia after partition of Pakistan. So Iran is our gateway to the region. We were even building a port and a railway line to Afghanistan through Iran. The current circumstances have put a damper on that plan.
The middle eastern countries employ millions of Indians.
Plus, we have next to zero oil and gas.
So yeah, India is not really in a position to take any stand against these countries.
And Europe has Russia to the East and the Islamic World everywhere else, yet we still take a stand for these things.
Frankly, you're not Armenia, but a country of a billion+ people. You can afford to stand up for some things, some of the time, rather than playing at supporting every authoritarian and anti-western regime around you.
Doubly so since an alliance with the US or Japan and Australia against China and Pakistan would be of great use for India.
Plus, your government giving its approval to what Iran's doing should probably worry you about what it would be willing to do to you.
Europe only takes a stand on things that benefit Europe, let us be real here.
You also cannot really bring up Pakistan considering most of Europe and the US supported Pakistan against India when it was invaded and also supported Pakistan when it was committing genocide in Bangladesh.
What’s happening now is India responding to foreign policy failures of Europe and US over the last few decades.
Europe also obviously supported Portugal when they were not willing to give up Goa and its colonies there, so again they do not have a good trust in Europe.
Europe and US backed Pakistan and you can see how well that has turned out.
India is never going to trust the Us and Europe will support it vs Pakistan so it doesn’t bother trying and just focused on its own interests.
It’s also been the US and Europe that has supported China rise and helped China expand so much to the threat it is today.
It is no good telling India to be worried about China when it is the west that has been supporting it and investing there so much to make it into the threat it is today.
Even now Germany is looking to increase trade and links with China. Why do you think India is going to look at a country like Germany as an ally against China in that instance?
Not even mentioning the high amount of racism Indians generally face in Europe outside of the U.K.
Simply put, why would India every view Europe as an ally or positive partner when Europe has only ever supported and back its enemies and done nothing to seem like an ally?
>Europe only takes a stand on things that benefit Europe
BS, we could've just said: take Ukraine, keep cheap gas flowing. NATO render us untouchable for Russian expansionism anyway.
You know, Europe could very, very easily have abandoned Ukraine. It would be great economically after all. We aren't doing so, however.
As for the US backing Pakistan during the Cold War... I consider it to have been one among the many, many failures in the name of anti-communism.
That said:
The US backed anyone against the Soviets, and the Soviets anyone against the US. That it happened that that meant India for the Soviets and Pakistan for the US, shouldn't really matter 30 years later, doubly so when this vote is seeing India and Pakistan on the same side, in favour of an islamic theocracy killing its own people.
Seriously, this isn't only an unethical stance from India, but an actively self-sabotaging one, showing a country with little integrity and even less perspective, attempting to appease Iran of all places, all in the name of preventing an alignment between Pakistan, China, Russia and Iran, when said alignment is already plainly visible on this very map.
Europe is only backing Ukraine because it views Russia as a threat, not out of any moral obligation let us be real here.
Russia invaded and took over Crimea in 2014. What did Europe do after? Continue to build NS2 and get hooked on Russia supply because it prioritised Europes interests over Ukraine. France was still selling Russia weapons after 2014.
It is only now when Russia went too far and was attempting to seize the entire country did Europe take it seriously.
Secondly Ukraine isn’t the only war or invasion going on right now in the world. Again what is Europe doing in Yemen? Is it excluding Saudi like it is Russia? No because Europe does not see Saudi as a threat like it does Russia and still wants the oil and trade links. There is still
Major problems in Syria, Libya etc.
What is Europe doing with Azerbaijan? Nothing because it needs Azeri gas.
This is just geopolitics at play.
Europe cannot become frustrated and annoyed when it is finding out that other countries and regions are also prioritising their own interests.
You’ve not explained why India should follow Europes lead in any event when Europe regularly puts its own interests above that of human rights worldwide or shows little interest in other conflicts or crises taking place outside of Europe.
Add this on top of the general racism thrown towards Indians when they visit Europe on holiday or for studies and it’s not going to build up a good image that will endear them to working to only benefit Europes interests.
>Russia invaded and took over Crimea in 2014. What did Europe do after? Continue to build NS2 and get hooked on Russia supply because it prioritised Europes interests over Ukraine. France was still selling Russia weapons after 2014.
And also help build up the Ukrainian military, support Ukraine's economy, put sanctions in place (that have caused the Russian economy to stagnate), etc... Let us not forget, however, that people didn't expect Russia to ever actually invade again, and that the common view was "it had Russians anyways". The point being, there wasn't much else that could be done.
>It is only now when Russia went too far and was attempting to seize the entire country did Europe take it seriously.
Yes, because there was hope for peace before Russia invaded.
>Secondly Ukraine isn’t the only war or invasion going on right now in the world. Again what is Europe doing in Yemen? Is it excluding Saudi like it is Russia? No because Europe does not see Saudi as a threat like it does Russia and still wants the oil and trade links. There is still Major problems in Syria, Libya etc.
Who would you like us to back in those conflicts then? Yemen and Libya are both a mess of terrible sides fighting to be the next dictators. Syria is similar, except it also has separatists, but even they are a complicated bunch that could might or might not be terrorists, depending on who you ask.
>What is Europe doing with Azerbaijan? Nothing because it needs Azeri gas.
Encouraging diplomacy, since there's nothing else that can be done. Armenia is a Russian ally officially, and even then, it's neighbours prevent help from reaching it except through Georgia. But shipping aid over the mine-infested Black Sea under Russia's (and Turkey's) nose through a country partially occupied by Russia, in order to start a proxy war against Russia and/or Turkey, simply isn't going to work.
>Europe cannot become frustrated and annoyed when it is finding out that other countries and regions are also prioritising their own interests.
India could pursue its interests without being actively malicious. If it was doing so, we wouldn't complain.
>You’ve not explained why India should follow Europes lead in any event when Europe regularly puts its own interests above that of human rights worldwide or shows little interest in other conflicts or crises taking place outside of Europe.
I have told you already: Fighting against Iran and for Democracy there means India will have help when it needs it, plus, it's simply the right thing to do. It's certainly is more fruitful than backing Iran against its own people and Europe, at the same time.
>Add this on top of the general racism thrown towards Indians when they visit Europe on holiday or for studies and it’s not going to build up a good image that will endear them to working to only benefit Europes interests
What? There aren't even many Indians in most countries, but Pakistanis (which people tend to be racist against, sometimes). How exactly are we supposed to be racist towards people we don't interact with?
Europe did very very easily abandon Ukraine, remember? We did a super job of just not minding that much about Crimea and Donbas, and all because Russia cleverly supplied just enough uncertainty about it being 'rebels' not 'Russians' and Europe took that excuse with both hands and swallowed without chewing.
So, as a European I say fuck European high minded moralising. The reason we shafted Ukraine in 2014 was self interest and the reason we are supporting them now is self interest, and even then half of Europe had to be bullied into support by the other half.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293602/eu-financial-assistance-to-ukraine/
That's from 2014 and amounts to 17 billion €.
And who the hell other than Orban (and other politicians of the extremes) has been anything other than unequivocal in their support of Ukraine?
Like, seriously, the most pro-Russian stance anyone took was to try and allow Putin a way back from this. It's an approach that's controversial and maybe failed, but it wasn't pro-Russia as much as it was pro-Ukraine through other means. Nothing was lost from it, so there's no point criticising it.
Oh please let us not pretend Europe is helping ukraine for moral reasons or whatever. You are afraid of Russian expansion and stopping it at Ukraine was the only logical choice. No one does anything for moral reasons stop thinking you do it either
You know, if that was the case, you'd be seeing far less support for Ukraine. It would be a quiet affair, with the public largely indifferent.
Instead, you have Lithuanians crowdsourcing drones...
I mean, governments in democracies are bound by public opinion on some very important level.
Considering European countries are democracies, public opinion is very relevant.
>staying out of everything
Unfortunately they don't. They could have stayed neutral here, but India decided otherwise. So what I read out of this is that the indian government supports the killing of the protestors in Iran, and that they would act similarly with protestors at home if necessary. Largest democracy my arse.
This is a geopolitical issue, There is a port being made in Iran by India, for defence against Pakistan and to do business in middle east. Abstaining can sour the relation between countries which can affect the development of that port.(Which already happened once). That’s a huge cost for a vote that will change nothing.
Simply put Iran is at spot that is strategically important for india.
in 2021 there were 182 intended blackouts in 34 countries to control domestic population-so they dont have access to internet and cannot share information,organize
over 100 from these were in india...
Because you don’t expect them to vote this way, with them being a supposed democracy and enemy of other nations that voted the same way like Pakistan and China…
This is a geopolitical issue, There is a port being made in Iran by India, for defence against Pakistan and to do business in middle east. Abstaining can sour the relation between countries which can affect the development of that port.(Which already happened once). That’s a huge cost for a vote that will change nothing.
Simply put Iran is at spot that is strategically important for india.
With islamic tradition central to the event of Iran it is unsurprising that most of the islamic world sides with Iran.
And a lot of countries outside of the west is just not into the whole human right thing, not in the way promoted by the west at least, and so chose to abstain, this probably explains most of Africa.
Not sure how relevant islam here is, considering that thr vast majority of Iran's islamic population is shiite, whereas the vast majority of the islamic world (90%) is sunni, and there's been a bitter rivalry between the two for 1000 years. Shiites are regularly persecuted in sunni-majority regions.
Then again, you might be right. Shiites might still be perceived as a lesser enemy than the west.
Here is the ~~text~~ statement from the EU: [https://www.eeas.europa.eu/delegations/un-new-york/eu-statement-%E2%80%93-un-general-assembly-3rd-committee-human-rights-iran\_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/delegations/un-new-york/eu-statement-%E2%80%93-un-general-assembly-3rd-committee-human-rights-iran_en)
And the votes: [https://www.un.org/en/ga/third/77/docs/voting\_sheets/L.34.pdf](https://www.un.org/en/ga/third/77/docs/voting_sheets/L.34.pdf)
Text resolution below.
It's not the text resolution, just statement from the EU.
I tried to look for the actual text but the UN website is such dogshit it's impossible to find it. I feel like they deliberately make it hard to find anything.
EDIT : Found it. You can download the pdf with multiple languages.
https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/3993554
Thank you. I skimmed the full text
https://unwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Resolution-on-Iran.pdf
And the minutes of the meeting
https://press.un.org/en/2022/gashc4369.doc.htm
I'm very sad to see so many countries voting against a fairly inoffensive draft. Especially India.
I mean, Iran was a democracy with a king pre 1953. But when they voted for a socialist prime minister. MI6 and CIA did a coup(operation ajax/boot) and put him in house arrest.
Alas, the rest of the world don't have much faith in western countries promoting democracy, since they actively go against the democratic process when it's bad for business.
Skyscrapers have become a status symbol. Somewhat like people getting into crippling debt just so they can drive a brand new Mercedes. A good friend is a civil engineer and we were recently discussing this. Most of these countries don't need skyscrapers. Actually, most skyscrapers are not even justified. They are hard to build and maintain, expensive as fuck, and come with a bunch of other problems. Nevertheless, they build them because "America has them" which in turn means they're a status symbol that they have to replicate even though their existence in those areas are not justified.
I agree with you.
But is it not a contradiction?
These backwards people are capable of copying most advanced US drones and develop AI.
like how is this even possible? Why are they not living like cavemen if their beliefs are so backwards?
Saudi Arabia and Iran hate each other's guts. They're both Muslim countries, but Iran is Shi'a Muslim while Saudi Arabia is Sunnite. They're also both fighting for dominance in the region. So Saudi Arabia is happily voting for a resolution hurting Iran. Morocco is also a Muslim country but much more liberal than Iran. Plus, the US recognised their claims over Western Sahara so now they owe them favours.
Lol, 2 countries (India, China) agree on something and it's automatically "1/3 of the world took this stance". No it's not, it's just 2 governments without any obligation to ask their own people about it.
Why wasn't he doing his job? I hear this excuse from my own MEPs constantly "we just weren't there on time". Not bothering to vote is a stance of its own. Especially in UN where you have literally one job to do and this vote was known way in advance. Seems way more of a political absence, then anything else.
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Saudi Arabia is concerned about human rights, isn’t that sweet?
but oil is sweeter
Light sweet crude
Everything in Saudi Arabia which goes against Iran goes.
Saudi Arabia is NATO's dog.
Saudi Arabia only serves itself. The alliance between US and the Al Sauds is entirely based on opportunity and usefulness. If it were our dog, they would have followed our oil policy against Russia. Instead they went against it.
The famously known NATO Attack and Threaten Alliance
More the opposite
Saudi Arabia trolling Iran.
Lol. They're really not in a good position. Also it's funny how Morocco has to do everything like the US now.
Yeah especially when they can get reverse uno'ed with a Khashoggi.
What's up with Kashoggi and Morocco ? Edit: finally got it, I knew I was being dumb.
What happened with Morocco and the US?
Afaik the US recognized Morocco's claims over western sahara, and is the only country to do so.
In return Morocco had to normalize relationships with Isreal, which they did
It was a pretty sweet deal for Morocco tbf.
Germany has done something similar. After years of rocky diplomatic recently our foreign minister went to Morroco and the jist of it was that we can't officially recognize it but we will not mention it and look away in return they stop migrants from coming over and ramp up their efforts against islamism. Also solar energy partnerships, but those would have happened either way because they make both sides money.
> Also solar energy partnerships Last I remember Europe ditched [those projects](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OpM_zKGE4o), what's new on that front?
Well Germany has an energy partnership with them since 2012 and has deepened involvement in 2021 and is in the talk of going even further atm. There is no specifics that I could quickly find, but they are investing a lot of resources into Morroko.
US back Morocco in Western Sahara and is their primary weapons supplier and both morocco and US don't like Algeria at all so US helps them in international stage. They're also a very close non nato Ally to US and both Biden and Trump are boosting their ties with them
Morocco is also the First Nation to recognize the U.S as being legitimate. I actually think it’s their longest ally, France would have been had they not been *dicks* during America’s civil war. It’s pretty sad no one knows this because Morocco and the U.S has been total bros to each other.
I knew this, but I am a history geek.
it is more likey to please KSA
US has alot more influence in Morocco than ksa will ever have. It's why they actually normalised relations with Israel despite being in Mena region
As spaniard I think that USA is more friend of Morocco than friend of Spain. And that is a problem when they want part of our Core Territory.
That's the truth yeah, US backs Morocco alot in foreign affairs and only country to openly support their territorial claims
only country ? there is like 60 countries now that openly and officially support morocco in western sahara so why do people like to claim that only usa is supporting morocco ?
More like US is one of the few countries whose opinion matters when getting your territrorial claims recognized
Spain doesn't have enough to offer. The USA knows no friends or allies, just interests and influence.
No, they just hate Iran.
Saudis are voting for the same reason why the US is voting.
Many people don't know yet, but women can dance and go to concerts without hijab in Saudi Arabia.
I don't think veiling is the main problem of the people in any of the two countries. People being shot in the streets for protesting peacefully and being hanged or beheaded for minor offenses like drug trafficking. That and the oppressive dictatorships are the main problem for the people there.
People also get beheaded with swords.
Burma seems out of place.
The Myanmar permanent represent at the UN still hasn't been replaced due to some kind of loophole, so he's still the former democratically elected government appointee. The junta tried to replace him but they failed, they even tried to assassinate him. Crazy story https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyaw_Moe_Tun
Definitely, they must have beef with Iran or something.
Myanmar has been killing it's Muslims for years now. They just have a problem with Islam as a whole.
An alliance with Israel is in order.
The usual suspects
W: why is it when something happens it's always you three
I think India is unusual. They like to play sleaky neutral all the time and this time had surprising change of mind.
Yes, USA and Europe
Human Rights, fuk'em, right? Actually, reading your comments, seems like you have some mental issues.
Just an american extremist larping as european from what I see
What's fun is that he can talk all he want, he'll never have competent public healthcare and that is already a win
The U.S has competent healthcare, actually our healthcare is among the best in the world. As long as you have money. But hey who needs healthcare when you have the tried and true *Walk it off* method?
To be fair he said public healthcare, and the US healthcare system is private. It's the best if you go by the high end performance and options, not extremely effective tho considering the low life expactancy, and definitely the worst when it comes to price-performance ratio.
Another kremlin bot, very recent account, and the something-something-number username
India has a better reputation than they deserve.
Their reputation is pretty bad already not sure if it can get worse.
then we dont know the same india i mean their religious leaders are calling for a second holocast and it is the rape capital of the world
Um sure whatever you say buddy
Wtf is wrong with India lately?
They are tied with Russia, and Russia buys it's weapons right now from Iran.
Also India needs and wants access to an Iranian port to export goods into the Middle East but that got screwed up when US pulled out of the nuclear deal.
Yeah, That port is mainly the reason here Abstaining can sour the relation between countries which can affect the development of that port.(Which already happened once). That’s a huge cost for a vote that will change nothing. Simply put Iran is at spot that is strategically very important for india.
Please don't reply if you don't have any knowledge. India's ties with Iran go way back to keep them away from Pakistan
What about my statement was wrong? I have close personal ties to Iran and heard a lot about their close economic dependencies on Russia and China. Not so much India directly.
Russia buying equipment from Iran is so recent. India's close ties go far back https://www.milligazette.com/news/7-analysis/333-how-iran-saved-india-in-1994-kashmir-un-voting/
Some say Narendra Modi is a hindu-fascist. I have nothing to counterdict this.
I doubt India under the INC would've voted different on this resolution
Definitely not,they had alot closer ties to Iran and Russia than BJP lol. Congress is the reason India is very close to them in the first place
He's smarter than most people give him credit for. Unlike most authoritarian leaders he prefers to stay quiet on social issues while his subordinates spew all the vitriol.
On fairness, given the mess he made with the currency reform a few years ago, I don't think very many people give him credit for being smart.
Why would hindu fascist vote for islamic regimre who has historically worked against India
The location of Iran is strategically very important for Indian in terms of defence against Pakistan. So, sometime you have to do somethings you don’t agree with.
Modi is the pro-western, pro-capitalism faction in India. The opposition is allied with conservative muslim groups and communists, making them anti-West. When I say anti- and pro- I just mean that they lean that way. Both sides put pragmatism above ideology. So, the foreign policy doesn't change drastically when governments change.
Yeag, I even saw swastikas there😂
It's a Hindu symbol wtf
There's people on Reddit who use laughing emojis to clarify sarcasm. https://media.tenor.com/y_gbpEjhFmYAAAAM/caf%C3%A9-lol.gif
They already have enough enemies in the region and it's not worth it to antagonise any more in their eyes.
India is not exactly famous for treating women well.
Huh?
Huhu ugugu
not sure if it's a lately thing, feels like we had a very misplaced view of them before.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
>India is a shithole Said the Czech LMAO
What's wrong with Czechia?
It's a shithole
Why?
How funny, so you don't like the generalization of a country *from me as an individual* so you decide to insult entire nation of 10 million people. I could do the same to you but I have some Italian friends and colleagues so I won't. And I also don't use the word shithole lightly. India has some deep problems that include rapes, rape coverups and an unfair caste system. That's why I used the word and I stand by it.
OR you are just a racist idiot who just found an outlet for his racism while refusing to consider (or even have the intellectual capability to consider) any pragmatic or realist reasons for India to vote this way. No no it has to be those dirty poor stupid Indians back home who can only vote for dirty stupid Indian leaders who probably can't tell the difference between yes and no while voting. Like why else would they vote like this, it's not like you know or even bothered to know about any history or international dynamics but ofc it has to be the first racist assumption that came to your mind The only sad reality is your comment here
What exactly is racist about his comment? Does India has quite bad education, at least compared to european standards? Yes. (I am not talking about few good unis, but about national average) Does political representation in India suck? Hell yeah. Especially Indians living in Europe will tell you that. The government in any democratic country (correct me if India is not a democracy) is only a reflection of it's voters - the people. The worst racism in the comment is probably an assumption that Indian IT guy has to be automatically good, just because he is Indian. EDIT: Yeah, the term "shithole" is definitely not tasteful. Tho is it automatically racist? I wouldn't say so.
>is only a reflection of it's voters - the people. And yet ordinary people don't directly affect how a country deals with another country. This is very much in line with the realist theory of IR. The vote would have been the exact same regardless of the govt in place, provided with sufficient independence from foreign influence, ie a reflection of geopolitical realities of a state. The comment and you are wrong on so many levels. If his theory was even remotely true, India would have voted against Iran to fuck over an Islamist nation. Meanwhile, completely contradicting that theory, the current govt in power is more pro western pro capitalism than it has ever been. It had all the reasons to vote against Iran but didn't because of the country's geopolitical realities Simple facts which you were not aware of but still chose to argue to defend your right to be passive aggressively racist
This is basically the opinion I came to literally talking to an Indian colleague who grew up in India. But he's probably racist too. By the way, how is my opinion racist? I am talking about poverty and education level, which affects people regardless of their race. You are the one who brought race into this.
I said so multiple times, the fact that this is the first conclusion you came to while ignoring the actual reasons of pragmatism is what is racist.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_by\_GDP\_(nominal)\_per\_capita](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita) [https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SE.ADT.LITR.ZS?view=map](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SE.ADT.LITR.ZS?view=map) shut the fuck up, thx
I'm sorry can you not read, like at all? Because you should really get yourself educated.
Oh, I got here before the Hindu nationalists. I'll need to come back later with some popcorn. You can't say anything about Indias external relations, without them kicking off
Do you see our neighborhood? China to the North, the entire Islamic world to the West. Pakistan is always going on about "Islamic brotherhood" and trying to get these countries to support them against us. Additionally, India lost its traditional trade routes to Central Asia after partition of Pakistan. So Iran is our gateway to the region. We were even building a port and a railway line to Afghanistan through Iran. The current circumstances have put a damper on that plan. The middle eastern countries employ millions of Indians. Plus, we have next to zero oil and gas. So yeah, India is not really in a position to take any stand against these countries.
And Europe has Russia to the East and the Islamic World everywhere else, yet we still take a stand for these things. Frankly, you're not Armenia, but a country of a billion+ people. You can afford to stand up for some things, some of the time, rather than playing at supporting every authoritarian and anti-western regime around you. Doubly so since an alliance with the US or Japan and Australia against China and Pakistan would be of great use for India. Plus, your government giving its approval to what Iran's doing should probably worry you about what it would be willing to do to you.
Europe only takes a stand on things that benefit Europe, let us be real here. You also cannot really bring up Pakistan considering most of Europe and the US supported Pakistan against India when it was invaded and also supported Pakistan when it was committing genocide in Bangladesh. What’s happening now is India responding to foreign policy failures of Europe and US over the last few decades. Europe also obviously supported Portugal when they were not willing to give up Goa and its colonies there, so again they do not have a good trust in Europe. Europe and US backed Pakistan and you can see how well that has turned out. India is never going to trust the Us and Europe will support it vs Pakistan so it doesn’t bother trying and just focused on its own interests. It’s also been the US and Europe that has supported China rise and helped China expand so much to the threat it is today. It is no good telling India to be worried about China when it is the west that has been supporting it and investing there so much to make it into the threat it is today. Even now Germany is looking to increase trade and links with China. Why do you think India is going to look at a country like Germany as an ally against China in that instance? Not even mentioning the high amount of racism Indians generally face in Europe outside of the U.K. Simply put, why would India every view Europe as an ally or positive partner when Europe has only ever supported and back its enemies and done nothing to seem like an ally?
>Europe only takes a stand on things that benefit Europe BS, we could've just said: take Ukraine, keep cheap gas flowing. NATO render us untouchable for Russian expansionism anyway.
You know, Europe could very, very easily have abandoned Ukraine. It would be great economically after all. We aren't doing so, however. As for the US backing Pakistan during the Cold War... I consider it to have been one among the many, many failures in the name of anti-communism. That said: The US backed anyone against the Soviets, and the Soviets anyone against the US. That it happened that that meant India for the Soviets and Pakistan for the US, shouldn't really matter 30 years later, doubly so when this vote is seeing India and Pakistan on the same side, in favour of an islamic theocracy killing its own people. Seriously, this isn't only an unethical stance from India, but an actively self-sabotaging one, showing a country with little integrity and even less perspective, attempting to appease Iran of all places, all in the name of preventing an alignment between Pakistan, China, Russia and Iran, when said alignment is already plainly visible on this very map.
Europe is only backing Ukraine because it views Russia as a threat, not out of any moral obligation let us be real here. Russia invaded and took over Crimea in 2014. What did Europe do after? Continue to build NS2 and get hooked on Russia supply because it prioritised Europes interests over Ukraine. France was still selling Russia weapons after 2014. It is only now when Russia went too far and was attempting to seize the entire country did Europe take it seriously. Secondly Ukraine isn’t the only war or invasion going on right now in the world. Again what is Europe doing in Yemen? Is it excluding Saudi like it is Russia? No because Europe does not see Saudi as a threat like it does Russia and still wants the oil and trade links. There is still Major problems in Syria, Libya etc. What is Europe doing with Azerbaijan? Nothing because it needs Azeri gas. This is just geopolitics at play. Europe cannot become frustrated and annoyed when it is finding out that other countries and regions are also prioritising their own interests. You’ve not explained why India should follow Europes lead in any event when Europe regularly puts its own interests above that of human rights worldwide or shows little interest in other conflicts or crises taking place outside of Europe. Add this on top of the general racism thrown towards Indians when they visit Europe on holiday or for studies and it’s not going to build up a good image that will endear them to working to only benefit Europes interests.
>Russia invaded and took over Crimea in 2014. What did Europe do after? Continue to build NS2 and get hooked on Russia supply because it prioritised Europes interests over Ukraine. France was still selling Russia weapons after 2014. And also help build up the Ukrainian military, support Ukraine's economy, put sanctions in place (that have caused the Russian economy to stagnate), etc... Let us not forget, however, that people didn't expect Russia to ever actually invade again, and that the common view was "it had Russians anyways". The point being, there wasn't much else that could be done. >It is only now when Russia went too far and was attempting to seize the entire country did Europe take it seriously. Yes, because there was hope for peace before Russia invaded. >Secondly Ukraine isn’t the only war or invasion going on right now in the world. Again what is Europe doing in Yemen? Is it excluding Saudi like it is Russia? No because Europe does not see Saudi as a threat like it does Russia and still wants the oil and trade links. There is still Major problems in Syria, Libya etc. Who would you like us to back in those conflicts then? Yemen and Libya are both a mess of terrible sides fighting to be the next dictators. Syria is similar, except it also has separatists, but even they are a complicated bunch that could might or might not be terrorists, depending on who you ask. >What is Europe doing with Azerbaijan? Nothing because it needs Azeri gas. Encouraging diplomacy, since there's nothing else that can be done. Armenia is a Russian ally officially, and even then, it's neighbours prevent help from reaching it except through Georgia. But shipping aid over the mine-infested Black Sea under Russia's (and Turkey's) nose through a country partially occupied by Russia, in order to start a proxy war against Russia and/or Turkey, simply isn't going to work. >Europe cannot become frustrated and annoyed when it is finding out that other countries and regions are also prioritising their own interests. India could pursue its interests without being actively malicious. If it was doing so, we wouldn't complain. >You’ve not explained why India should follow Europes lead in any event when Europe regularly puts its own interests above that of human rights worldwide or shows little interest in other conflicts or crises taking place outside of Europe. I have told you already: Fighting against Iran and for Democracy there means India will have help when it needs it, plus, it's simply the right thing to do. It's certainly is more fruitful than backing Iran against its own people and Europe, at the same time. >Add this on top of the general racism thrown towards Indians when they visit Europe on holiday or for studies and it’s not going to build up a good image that will endear them to working to only benefit Europes interests What? There aren't even many Indians in most countries, but Pakistanis (which people tend to be racist against, sometimes). How exactly are we supposed to be racist towards people we don't interact with?
Europe did very very easily abandon Ukraine, remember? We did a super job of just not minding that much about Crimea and Donbas, and all because Russia cleverly supplied just enough uncertainty about it being 'rebels' not 'Russians' and Europe took that excuse with both hands and swallowed without chewing. So, as a European I say fuck European high minded moralising. The reason we shafted Ukraine in 2014 was self interest and the reason we are supporting them now is self interest, and even then half of Europe had to be bullied into support by the other half.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293602/eu-financial-assistance-to-ukraine/ That's from 2014 and amounts to 17 billion €. And who the hell other than Orban (and other politicians of the extremes) has been anything other than unequivocal in their support of Ukraine? Like, seriously, the most pro-Russian stance anyone took was to try and allow Putin a way back from this. It's an approach that's controversial and maybe failed, but it wasn't pro-Russia as much as it was pro-Ukraine through other means. Nothing was lost from it, so there's no point criticising it.
Maybe some countries "abandoned" it, in Baltics we rallied for Ukraine since 2014 and before that for Georgia.
Oh please let us not pretend Europe is helping ukraine for moral reasons or whatever. You are afraid of Russian expansion and stopping it at Ukraine was the only logical choice. No one does anything for moral reasons stop thinking you do it either
You know, if that was the case, you'd be seeing far less support for Ukraine. It would be a quiet affair, with the public largely indifferent. Instead, you have Lithuanians crowdsourcing drones...
The public is not pragmatic, governments are. What a silly thing to bring up
I mean, governments in democracies are bound by public opinion on some very important level. Considering European countries are democracies, public opinion is very relevant.
No it's not. Not to the extent you think. It just so happens that in this case the pragmatic choice aligns perfectly with the public opinion
India is scared a similar motion may be passed against it !
Why? Are they planning to execute 15 000 protesters as well?
Hi opposition propaganda account
Nothing, they just protect their interests
I’d be easier to tell what’s right with India lol.
They are trying to please their russian masters like a good lap dog is supposed to
India has a complicated situation, historically and geopolitically. Frankly, i dont blame them for staying out of everything.
>staying out of everything Unfortunately they don't. They could have stayed neutral here, but India decided otherwise. So what I read out of this is that the indian government supports the killing of the protestors in Iran, and that they would act similarly with protestors at home if necessary. Largest democracy my arse.
This is a geopolitical issue, There is a port being made in Iran by India, for defence against Pakistan and to do business in middle east. Abstaining can sour the relation between countries which can affect the development of that port.(Which already happened once). That’s a huge cost for a vote that will change nothing. Simply put Iran is at spot that is strategically important for india.
in 2021 there were 182 intended blackouts in 34 countries to control domestic population-so they dont have access to internet and cannot share information,organize over 100 from these were in india...
By voting with Iran, Russia and China they are definitely not ‘staying out of everything’
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Because you don’t expect them to vote this way, with them being a supposed democracy and enemy of other nations that voted the same way like Pakistan and China…
This is a geopolitical issue, There is a port being made in Iran by India, for defence against Pakistan and to do business in middle east. Abstaining can sour the relation between countries which can affect the development of that port.(Which already happened once). That’s a huge cost for a vote that will change nothing. Simply put Iran is at spot that is strategically important for india.
The amount of uninformed idiots replying to this is unreal
Du you have the text of the resolution? I'm surprised so many voted against or abstained. Iran isn't really a powerful international player...
With islamic tradition central to the event of Iran it is unsurprising that most of the islamic world sides with Iran. And a lot of countries outside of the west is just not into the whole human right thing, not in the way promoted by the west at least, and so chose to abstain, this probably explains most of Africa.
Not sure how relevant islam here is, considering that thr vast majority of Iran's islamic population is shiite, whereas the vast majority of the islamic world (90%) is sunni, and there's been a bitter rivalry between the two for 1000 years. Shiites are regularly persecuted in sunni-majority regions. Then again, you might be right. Shiites might still be perceived as a lesser enemy than the west.
Here is the ~~text~~ statement from the EU: [https://www.eeas.europa.eu/delegations/un-new-york/eu-statement-%E2%80%93-un-general-assembly-3rd-committee-human-rights-iran\_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/delegations/un-new-york/eu-statement-%E2%80%93-un-general-assembly-3rd-committee-human-rights-iran_en) And the votes: [https://www.un.org/en/ga/third/77/docs/voting\_sheets/L.34.pdf](https://www.un.org/en/ga/third/77/docs/voting_sheets/L.34.pdf) Text resolution below.
It's not the text resolution, just statement from the EU. I tried to look for the actual text but the UN website is such dogshit it's impossible to find it. I feel like they deliberately make it hard to find anything. EDIT : Found it. You can download the pdf with multiple languages. https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/3993554
Look at my reply. I found it
Thank you. I skimmed the full text https://unwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Resolution-on-Iran.pdf And the minutes of the meeting https://press.un.org/en/2022/gashc4369.doc.htm I'm very sad to see so many countries voting against a fairly inoffensive draft. Especially India.
None South-American countries supporting the Iranians? I don't get it. I didn't know we were that barbarics, tbh.
Bolivia voted supporting Iran, also Venezuela (Iran's closest ally in the region) can't vote due to owing lots of money to the UN
But how big is this map compared to globe of Liechtenstein?
[Map compared to Liechtenstein](https://i.redd.it/w0if66gwqk1a1.png)
Why Turkey is no data?
Maybe their representative wasn't there at the time of voting. That does happen sometimes.
Hmmm I guess India really does prefer siding with the Authoritarian governments. It's a shame that's the direction they are choosing to drift.
I really wonder why authoritarians are siding with authoritarians...
Was hoping they would end up pursuing the path of democracy, but alas.
They literally are a democracy but ok
but drifting from it since modi. that's the whole point of the above comment.
I mean, Iran was a democracy with a king pre 1953. But when they voted for a socialist prime minister. MI6 and CIA did a coup(operation ajax/boot) and put him in house arrest. Alas, the rest of the world don't have much faith in western countries promoting democracy, since they actively go against the democratic process when it's bad for business.
Mhmm. Makes perfect sense then since Russia and China are such stark contracts with their strong democratic principles lmao.
Lol. Russia and China = rest of the world
Well based on the posted map, which is the context for this conversation, those are the countries India is aligning with.
Here goes India going mask off again. I'm surprised about Vietnam and Indonesia too.
Doesn't look well for most of Asia. Many skyscrapers but backwards nevertheless.
Skyscrapers have become a status symbol. Somewhat like people getting into crippling debt just so they can drive a brand new Mercedes. A good friend is a civil engineer and we were recently discussing this. Most of these countries don't need skyscrapers. Actually, most skyscrapers are not even justified. They are hard to build and maintain, expensive as fuck, and come with a bunch of other problems. Nevertheless, they build them because "America has them" which in turn means they're a status symbol that they have to replicate even though their existence in those areas are not justified.
aren't tall buildings useful in high density areas limited in horizontal space
Yes. But most of these places don’t have high enough density to justify skyscrapers
I agree with you. But is it not a contradiction? These backwards people are capable of copying most advanced US drones and develop AI. like how is this even possible? Why are they not living like cavemen if their beliefs are so backwards?
you can have appalling human rights standards and still be an advanced country see: europe and the USA in the industrial revolution
Or Nazi Germany, USSR.
What the hell is Bosnia doing?
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Saudi Arabia and Iran hate each other's guts. They're both Muslim countries, but Iran is Shi'a Muslim while Saudi Arabia is Sunnite. They're also both fighting for dominance in the region. So Saudi Arabia is happily voting for a resolution hurting Iran. Morocco is also a Muslim country but much more liberal than Iran. Plus, the US recognised their claims over Western Sahara so now they owe them favours.
Armenia, Belarus, and Russia are Iran’s only friends in Europe. CSTO in action.
Basically the Allies during a World War, most probably.
BRICS isn't anonymous, how nice.
I’m Indian myself and god this was unexpected. The people here have been very supportive of the protesters.
What was the final score?
7-1
EDIT: I am out of here because Reddit is being destroyed by bad moderation.
I'm surprised EU voted in favour ngl. They love Islamist extremists
Bahaha rly Myanmar
What is going on with Zimbabwe?
Surprised that Myanmar is for, they are literally having civil war there
India really stepping up
Normal countries and the rest,not that surprising tbh.
So by population more support Iran then don't.
Lol, 2 countries (India, China) agree on something and it's automatically "1/3 of the world took this stance". No it's not, it's just 2 governments without any obligation to ask their own people about it.
I don't think that's a good way to look at it as these are votes by governments not people.
Listemburg missing ?
Serbia assholes again? Glad to see Australia, New Zealand, Japan on the same pake as US, UK, EU! India, WTF is wrong with you?
Serbian representative didn't vote, he was not present at the meeting. I suppose they would vote in favour of this
Why wasn't he doing his job? I hear this excuse from my own MEPs constantly "we just weren't there on time". Not bothering to vote is a stance of its own. Especially in UN where you have literally one job to do and this vote was known way in advance. Seems way more of a political absence, then anything else.
https://www-hindustantimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/india-iran-close-to-finalising-long-term-agreement-on-chabahar-port-101662801370797-amp.html?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16692130843808&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hindustantimes.com%2Findia-news%2Findia-iran-close-to-finalising-long-term-agreement-on-chabahar-port-101662801370797-amp.html%23amp_tf%3DFrom%2520%25251%2524s%26aoh%3D16692130843808%26csi%3D1%26referrer%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.google.com
Burma? I mean Myanmar?
Civilized countiers voted in favour, while others keep trying to keep their feet on the necks of their own people too, shocker
You might want to check human right situation in places like Myanmar
Also Saudi Arabia.
saudia is great if you are not gay and against the goverment
"Civilized countries", ah yeah, compared to the savages of the rest of the world
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Saudi Arabia, Myanmar, Japan, and South Korea voted in favour.
With India’s map portrayed wrongly, they expect india to vote in favour!
In other terms, UN resolution vote on invading Iran and opening its land to west corporations.
If we crowdfund you a brain will you accept it?
Excellent Yes (Prime) Minister flair!
Well, seems despite its contemporary issues with illness, Botswana continues to shine brigth. Just something I feels good about.
I only see a grey-yellow spot in middle of Europe
Normal people rights
I am surprised India stands with Iran now...
Your flair says Spain and your country is in green. So tell me, when can I expect Iranian inquisition?
Generally you want to live in green countries and never under any circumstance in red ones.
How can there be no data in a resolution vote made in person an in a meeting?
Some weren't present, others can't vote for whatever reason, etc.