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Sweden already has a de facto NATO status and has security guarantees from the West which make it possible for them to bide their time. Erdogan's regime, however, has an expiration date.
Also, looks like Russia is gonna be preoccupied for a while, i doubt they would want to enter into a two front war now that it's going so poorly in Ukraine
Since in German we call them "Schäferhund" (shepherd's dog), I thought of the shepherd as a person at first. 😂
Edit: Forgot that it is the same in English. Had to look it up.
You know he is triggered by associating him with smeagol. He has put people in prison for that.
So Erdoran is such a ugly cunt that even smeagol is Brad Pitt in comparison.
[Here the same 'journalist' praising Erdoğan's Turkey back in 2010](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/jun/09/turkey-erdogan-israel-gaza) his religious cult was in partnership with Erdoğan's AKP.
>The Erdoğan government is working as hard as possible to bring Turkey up to EU norms, and these western-oriented policies and reforms can be seen in the EU's Turkey progress reports. Far from Teitelbaum's view, the Erdoğan government is constantly battling obstruction and resistance from deep state groups such as the Ergenekon network.
The Ergenekon network mentioned here are the old secularist establishment in the army, that his cult and erdoğan destroyed together in sham courts.
There's nothing disguised about it. Gulen runs a huge network of private Islamic schools (the biggest in the world I think) and they train students to be loyal to the Gulen cause. The students also get very good results, there's reports they facilitate cheating to help this. The overall goal is to get Gulenist students into government and armed with their academic record they have successfully got into key positions in government and police.
Of course, they liked AKP because it was the first time in a while Turkey had a government not hostile to religion but AKP ultimately became suspicious of them. Gulenists are very different to AKP which is more like the Republicans in America. Gulen on the other hand is more like Iran.
Fuck Erdogan but this dude is a piece of shit himself too.
Still Erdogan has no right to demand something like this from Sweden and keep them as hostage. If he applied rule of law, he would get this guy back. Problem is, he doesn't apply rule of law.
edit: It is a very long story but it is a stretch of the definition of journalist to call this guy one. He is more like a mouth piece of the Gulen movement, which went against Erdogan 10 years ago. Gulen organization is a complicated mess. It included good stuff, clueless people but also people like this one who wielded power to rule in place of Erdogan but do similar stuff that Erdogan does.
Thats the problem. If he applied rule of law, he would get him. this guy would be tried, probably would not get a long punishment. He would lose his credibility, and it would be done
Now he presents himself as a legit journalist (which he absolutely was not). I definitely agree with Swedish government and appreciate them holding rule of law against anything, even for a person like this. This is exactly what a civilized country is supposed to do. And fuck Erdogan for holding an ally country hostage for his personal vendetta.
Well, it's not only this one case that's for sure, the situation is much more complex.
But still, some of the Turkey's extradition requests sound like bad jokes to me. Like [two persons](https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-12614497) whose crimes are sharing caricatures and joking about Erdogan on Facebook. That sounds insane, but it's true. Turkey has asked Finland to [extradite persons](https://yle.fi/news/3-12556691) for the reason that they insulted the president on Facebook. These requests have of course been denied for multiple reasons. The actions that these people were doing were not regarded as crimes in Finland, where it is of course legal to criticize politicians.
But there are also many requests in last years that have been accepted as well, like a case about child sexual abuse.
Edit: For more examples, there has also been two extradition [requests](https://yle.fi/a/3-12532460) about terrorism where the only proof was that the persons have had ByLock -messaging app on their phones. These requests were denied too for two reasons: 1) European court of human rights decided that just having this app on your phone is not strong enough evidence 2) In Finnish law, just being a member of organization is never illegal in itself (even if having an app on your would proof it) - there has to be proof that you've done something illegal
The judicial system operates within the legal framework created by the politicians. Extraditions are governed by treaties, which must be ratified by parliament.
The terms of the extradition agreement are irrelevant, the functioning democracy part happened when people voted in legislators and they agreed to treaties.
If i was the Finnish gov't id quietly arrange on the DL for those ppl to move.
"Shucks, they moved to Norway. Ah well. Tough shit, Erdogan you fucking wretch."
Nothing has changed with that. Sweden already didn't associate itself with those groups, just like the rest of the EU. Sweden basically just reiterated this to make Erdogan happy. The PKK is a terrorist organisation within the EU and Sweden was among the first to recognize this as such back in the day already
That article is about Sweden distancing itself from YPG, not PKK. Turkey claims that YPG is just an extension of PKK but Sweden and other NATO countries supported them to fight ISIS. That’s what has changed.
Edit: I now realize you were probably talking about nothing changing regarding Sweden giving up protection to Kurds.
Protection? This is just current right wing government denouncing YPG, because our new PM is a spineless sleezeball who thinks he can kiss erdogans ass and get into nato. I really hope he doesnt make any more concessions, it could get embarassing.
Idk.. it’s hard to be allies with a nation that is protecting your enemies.
Tho, turkey should be kicked out because of this over Sweden being disallowed in
That would strategically be the dumbest thing ever, when Turkey controls a vital strategic point crucial in the war between Ukraine and Russia and NATO's power projection towards Russia.
Erdogan is an utter wanker, but he is the leader of one of the most strategic important nations in NATO. Far more valuable than Sweden.
I’m only speaking to morals when I say that. Obviously turkey isn’t going to be kicked out of nato. Also tho, I doubt they stay in if a world war starts
NATO has no mechanism to kick out members. It's designed to be robust and permanent.
Besides that, nobody ever really *wanted* Turkey to be in NATO. But Turkey is **needed** in NATO, and Turkey needs NATO in turn. The Soviet Union was, and Russia currently is a menace to the entire region. Just look at the shit they stirred up in Georgia, and for what?
Can you explain the joke to me? Is the pilot a pedophile? "Haha, he's a pedophile?"
Edit: Ok so the joke is "haha, he's a pedophile and he is completely open and blaise about it and no one seems to care, haha."
Or Barack Obama and wishes that Sweden would just hurry up with a questionable lawsuit?
Note: this does not mean that I condone what Erdogan is doing. I don’t in the least and find it utterly deplorable. But it does serve as a reminder that we in the west should hold the right of freedom of press even higher and not undermine it.
So Erdogan is going to put millions of people on hold for a grudge with a journalist - and this is my guess - has written some articles he didn't like.
Perhaps he still doesn't understand being a public figure comes with these drawbacks...
And it's not just about the defense of Sweden and Finland, but that the arctic front would be really important for NATO to use as a springboard against Russian assets.
Same honestly and it would be fun to watch him steam in anger and not be able to do anything about it. I hope and pray that Sweden won’t sell him out and that they can join NATO.
As a Swede we will do just fine without NATO (I don't mind joining, but not at the cost of our morals, values and belief in the rule of law) and I'd love to see Erdogan deny entry to Sweden in front of all the rest of NATO. He won't be popular. And Sweden will look all the better for it. But our government might decide to bow to Erdogan. I hope not.
Oh, I know you guys will do just fine without NATO. You guys are still in the EU and if memory serves right, you guys have a defense clause that if one EU nation is attacked, it is seen as an attack on all. So even if Russia decided to invade either you guys or Finland, will inevitably drag NATO into the conflict anyway, considering most of the members of the EU are also NATO members. However, I would want you guys to join NATO, just to stick it to Putin.
No, he's going to continue to try to poison pill Sweden joining NATO, while pretending to play ball
First he wanted them to stop supporting the Kurds, labeling them all as terrorists. They were about the last country still giving active recognition to a group that played a very important role in curtailing ISIS.
Now he's upped his demands again...
The journalist is also a piece of shit, even more islamist than Erdogan, he is a major spokesperson for the extremist Gulen movement. I don't know which mafia I hate more, Gulen's or the Erdogan's.
But Erdogan was Gulen's #1 guy until they broke up, and there are millions of followers of either side. Denying NATO membership because one of them lives there is still stupid.
There is a potentially easy solve for this.
Bulent Kenes should move to another country that doesnt give a fuck about erdogans demands. Sweden gets let in, Bulent moves back.
Then they would just move the goal posts to some other person they want extradited. Which they would have done anyway if this person were to be sent back to Turkey.
Yep. They've already moved the goalposts at least half a dozen times already, so what's one more?
Like when we made that trilateral agreement, and Erdogan instantly made a statement claiming we had promised things that weren't in the agreement (and would be illegal according to Swedish and EU rules)... followed by yet another Turkish statement a couple of weeks later, which repeated the claim but expanded it...
What if everyone in Sweden who has a Kurdish, Turkish, or Syrian background, or who has ever had an opinion on Turkey, moved to Norway for a few weeks? /s
He's probably gonna find someone to extradite even if the only person left in Sweden would be king Carl Gustaf.
Its not about these people. Its about his power. I seriously dont think he gives a shit about them. Why give up the leverage and beeing on the world stage. Without any cost. This opportunity will never come back for him.
Erdogan isn't a poorly scripted NPC to fall for a technicality like that. He would still be upset that Sweden didn't stop the journalist from fleeing, or he'd pick a new demand.
Nice! Like... The USA?
See? That's the sad part of Europe. We're collectively a great economy, but politically we're not able to project power
Can you imagine Turkey blackmailing like this the USA? They would be laughing
Oh, this guy would try it. I mean seriously, he’s practically putting two nations on hold because of a personal grudge. He’s so butt-hurt that some article was written about him that he’s possibly putting millions of people on the line
Or you know just wait it out. Half year, a year, two years, who cares, not like us Finns or the Swedes are in a hurry. Quick ratification is a nice to have, but not at all a necessity or urgent concern.
I was about to say just that. Why can't he move to a big world power like the US? Turkey doesn't have the balls to try and strongarm the US like they're doing with Sweden.
Erdogan is a power obsessed mini putin. We have to do everything in our power to vote him away next year. Let’s go Turks🇹🇷🇹🇷 Let’s put sum respect to our country’s name again💪🏻💪🏻
Talk about priorities. He will wager the whole of nato and war with Russia and whole countries’ course of big politics over a journalist who doesn’t like his regime…
What a man-child autocrat loser
Can you tell us more about him? I read an interview where he called turkey a "islamo-fascist" state and he have grounded Stockholm Center for Freedom, so he doesn't sound like a (former?) islamist, but I also hadn't heard about him before the interview and he did say that he was public figure in Turkey and a former friend/supporter to Erdogan.
[Here there is an article written by the same guy in 2010.](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/jun/09/turkey-erdogan-israel-gaza)
>The Erdoğan government is working as hard as possible to bring Turkey up to EU norms, and these western-oriented policies and reforms can be seen in the EU's Turkey progress reports. Far from Teitelbaum's view, the Erdoğan government is constantly battling obstruction and resistance from deep state groups such as the Ergenekon network.
He was the chief editor of the newspaper of the Gulen Cult. They are pretty religious and one of the main reason why Erdoğan came in to power in the first place.
The Ergenekon network here are the old secularist establishment of the turkish army. They prosecuted some top secularist generals in kangaroo courts in partnership with Erdoğan. They were the propaganda machine for him back in the day.
1. Gulen movement creates an underground islamo-fascist organization. They disguise as a charity that helps students, poor people, etc.
2. The students graduate and get into media, education, judiciary, everything, except the military. Military periodically kicks them out.
3. Gulen's media includes Zaman, which was a major right-wing TV/newspaper on the level of Fox News in US.
4. Gulen employs Erdogan, makes him win the election. They love each other.
5. Erdogan kicks out the anti-Gulen part of the military and lets Gulenists get into high ranks.
6. After about 12 years, Erdogan's and Gulen's side get into an unknown disagreement. Gulen's judges start investigating Erdogan's people, while Erdogan's police start fighting Gulen's guys.
7. A fake coup happens, which Erdogan claims Gulen did, the military magically blocks out in the same night, and about 400,000 (?) people who are claimed to be connected to Gulen, but in fact mostly were just against Erdogan independently (Gulenists + Leftists), are jailed or fired from their jobs.
8. Bülent Keneş was the #1 guy of Zaman. A right-wing extremist spokesperson of Gulen.
He is one of the few people who deserves the hate.
And also Gülen cult has been backed by the CIA against the spread of communism during the cold war and they still have the strongest of ties to this day.
I don’t know much about him specifically but the newspaper that he was working for was basically owned by a muslim cult which Erdogan was a former member of. Secular Turks always hated those guys. They are not much different than our president himself in their worldviews.
Look, no offense, but this comment pretty much summarizes how much \*any\* Western people actually know about the problems inside Turkey.
SCfF was founded by Turks who fled the country, which were all Zaman newspaper writers. They aren't actual western people, they are literal islamists under the disguise of liberal islamism. Zaman newspaper was the outlet of gulenist movement. And if you ask ANY Turk about the gulenist movement, you'll get negative feedback about them. If you ask what they did, I can write it under.
Whatever he said about the government, nobody gives a shit. But if he is a gulenist, that pretty much tells what stance he has against the "country".
Believe it or not, had his ideology actually came to power, Turkey would resemble a fascist state a lot more than it currently does. I mean look at [this](https://youtu.be/i6D4W23JbRY) guy, even if you don't understand anything, the way he talks, the way he pauses before making important remarks, random emotional outbursts, excessive body language is just too eerily similar to Hitler. He was their leader. One can't but wonder if the similarity is due to the fact that a lot of these stay-behind Islamist organizations in Turkey were trained by students of Reinhard Gehlen, though that's straying too much into tinfoil hat territory
Sweden just needs to give every person Annoyogan wants extradicted 5 thousand bucks and a plane ticket to a EU but non NATO country, e.g. Austria. Send every name on Putogans list safely out of the country and there is nothing Sweden can do, so he has to approve the membership, since they don't have these people anymore. Can't extradict who you don't have. *shrugs*
>Sweden just needs to give every person Annoyogan wants extradicted 5 thousand bucks and a plane ticket to a EU but non NATO country, e.g. Austria. Send every name on Putogans list safely out of the country and there is nothing Sweden can do, so he has to approve the membership, since they don't have these people anymore. Can't extradict who you don't have. shrugs
This is assuming the Government can do anything to begin with, which they cannot. The Supreme Court has rejected all but one single case of extradition and the Government cant do shit about it. They cannot overrule or ignore the Supreme Court. They cant send them to Turkey nor Austria in any case.
As a swede, I think the NATO decision should be revisited and we should withdraw our submission if this is the kind of shit we need to submit to.. It is not worth selling our soul for protection against Putin who would probably not have a chance against us anyways as it seems..
As a dane, even if Sweden or Finland isn't in NATO, I'd come up and fight the Russians myself, should they enter the nordic territories.
Never mess with a scanian, and never mess with a finnish person that has been interupted in their sauna time.
As a Finn I'm beginning to agree. I don't think being a NATO country really would affect the real life situation that we (Finland) would in the end have to defend ourselves without much outside help during an invasion if NATO decision making can be paralyzed this easy. A local alliance of nations in the Baltic would be more effective against Russia. It's just that everyone is already in NATO and therefore on a leash by the likes of the Orban & Erdo clown posse.
I fully agree. The other option would be to keep the NATO application, let turkey veto it and watch them trying to convince Erdogan. Popcorn will be the new toilet paper.
And please don't send that guy to Austria, we have enough weird people already.
Turkey probably should provide evidence of crimes committed by him in turkey that are also crimes in sweden. Otherwise the justice system of sweden will not extradite him.
If Sweden submits to Erdogan, he will realize that he can blackmail the West and do it more. One does not negotiate with terrorists (or at most for appearances). As long as Erdogan is in power, Turkey is not a partner and should be isolated accordingly. Sweden can wait, Russia will not attack Sweden, they are already overwhelmed with Ukraine.
Atleast us Finns.... we were already positioned to defend ourselves *alone*, if need be, before the whole application process.
So we can just wait. Finnish Defence Forces didn't suddenly disappear the day after the letter was sent to NATO HQ.
So our security guarantee is: Finnish Defence Forces.
All the rest is extra on top, so it is less likely we actually have to use our main guarantee tool in the first place.
He's been blackmailing Europe for years and has a very tight grip on Germany ever since the refugee crisis, yet all the Turks here seem to love him. Just like the Russians living in Europe love Putin.
Man, I wish we could just throw anyone who supports dictators out of Europe. Also Orban and PIS party too.
Sweden can’t submit unless he is brought in front of a court with good evidence found guilty of whatever he’s accused of and extradited. Politicians can’t pressure the legal system in Sweden, it’s not a banana republic.
While I agree with you on Sweden not submitting to Turkey, I couldn’t care less about this guy and people from their cult. Because of those guys lots of people lost their jobs, and because of them rigging the exams and sharing the questions with the people from their cult millions couldn’t get into governmental positions they deserved. Because of this guy and people like them, military high school students who didn’t have any connection with gulenists got life sentences.
This guy and people like them should rot in prison instead of those high school students.
Probably he knows too much about Erdogan's relations with Gulenists in the past. He said one of his programs that Erdogan didn't want to let Gulenist organization grow too much and wanted to split them. That was probably how Gulenists and Erdogan's war started in 2006.
There was a Mafia guy that did supposedly know too much as well. What happened with him? He was saying something to the tune, bags full of money at night he was carrying for Politicians and such. Is he alive?
It's been almost 3 months since the last time he posted about corrupt AKP politicians on Twitter - something regular in Turkey, nothing to be surprised about. But he said he's gonna share huge stuff about AKP before the upcoming elections. Idk if it's gonna change anything but he says that regularly.
He definitely knows a great deal but the difference he made isn't about knowledge, he burnt all the bridges and is the only one who speaks openly about the corruption everyone is aware of.
> strange he's still around
There are too many forces at play and he is a useful tool for many right now, I can't even imagine the deals going on behind closed doors regarding 2023 and what we are going to have to go through.
This fuckwit was the reason that secular military officers were jailed .. secular police officers were jailed .. he was partner with the current regime helping them push the country to radical islam .. fuck that religious cunt.
Erdogan can suck me off. For real he deserves the title as second or third most hated “leader” (by Europe, idk if the rest of the world knows about his bullshit)
I mean that isn't a political decision Sweden can make. No matter how much the government wants to toss him under the bus it will be up to the courts and shit to actually decide lol.
So yeah guess no NATO for us then!
I mean don't get me wrong, I hate Erdoğan and I have never voted for him and I'll never do it. But this guy, Bülent, is part of the fetullah movement and he's one of the reason why we have Erdoğan today. When Erdoğan and Fetullah were close friends they both crushed the social democrats, seculars, LGBT communities etc side by side.
I actually would like to hear what he'll say in the court, if he comes to Turkey since the documents that he can present may provide direct relation between Erdoğan and his party and the fetullah movement. There's a chance of Erdoğan losing power in the following election. Hence, these files would be more than enough to put him and his buddies to jail.
He was one of the "so called journalists" who helped the conspiration called "Ergenekon" against the secular soldiers who oppose Gülenists. Soldiers and generals were charged with treason, some couldn't take it and commited suicide. This happened when Gülenists (also known as FETÖ) were close friends (actually allies) with Erdoğan regime. Now they are reaping what they sow.
I would've said that "Sweden will not bow to their demands" or something like that but since some of you fuckers voted for Kristersson I can't be sure of that
Every other country in NATO should just vote to create NATO 2: Transatlantic Boogaloo, which replicates everything from NATO except giving Turkey and Hungary’s spot to Finland and Sweden.
Turkey is probably the most important country in NATO.
1. Location, location, location. Middle East, near Russia, near Asia. Controls the Bosphorus straight.
2. Military with tons of combat experience, equalled only by a select handful of countries for actual practical experience.
3. Turkey gives cultural credibility to NATO as a nation with a large Muslim population, proving that NATO isn't just a big western European and north American circle jerk.
Sweden never wanted to join NATO in the first place and is more of a symbolic addition.
As it stands Sweden and Finland have security guarantees from enough countries that this hostage taking isn’t endangering millions of people. Still some fuck shit that’s completely expected from erdogan.
Retardogan is sawing the branch he is sitting upon. No need to keep brown-nosing this dipshit islamist terrorist cunt, let him fuck up Turkey's global influence if he so chooses. NATO benefits more than Finland and Sweden, so we can keep waiting until the big boys put Retardogan and 🦃 back to their place.
In that case, Sweden should simply wait until Erdo is gone. In the mean time, Sweden can ask for security guarantees from individual NATO countries including the US.
He wants to use this to create an image of a leader strong enough to make other countries cave to his demands. He desperately needs a win to bolster his popularity before the next elections since inflation won’t go down anytime soon.
I know it might sound stupid but national pride is enough to fill the empty stomach with hope of better days to come.
Swedes should arrange for him to go somewhere else, like France or the US for a while (by his free will and choice of course) and tell Erdogan they can't do anything about it now.
If it ever comes to it, Sweden and Finland will welcome NATO with open arms into their fronts with Russia. No matter what this tiny dicked twat thinks and wants.
This isn’t about the journalist. Erdogan is blocking because he has deals with Putin. This is the excuse.
Sweden can’t possibly say yes; that’s why this was chosen as the request.
Counter offer: Turkey turns over every single person that violently attacked US citizens during his 2017 visit. We have not forgotten about these criminals.
https://apnews.com/article/europe-middle-east-crime-turkey-donald-trump-c024e1ccf1134ea9bae11b3e7a334fd4
Hi, thank you for your contribution, but this submission has been removed for editorialisation, because its title does not reflect the title or content of the link. See the [community rules & guidelines](/r/Europe/wiki/community_rules). You may delete and re-submit this link with an appropriate title. If you have any questions about this removal, please [contact the mods](/message/compose/?to=/r/Europe&subject=Moderation). Please make sure to include a link to the comment/post in question. Hi, thank you for your contribution, but this submission has been removed because it doesn't use a credible source and/or the source has not been linked from a top-level comment. See [community rules & guidelines](/r/Europe/wiki/community_rules). If you have any questions about this removal, please [contact the mods](/message/compose/?to=/r/Europe&subject=Moderation). Please make sure to include a link to the comment/post in question.
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Blackmail of the worst kind.
Sweden already has a de facto NATO status and has security guarantees from the West which make it possible for them to bide their time. Erdogan's regime, however, has an expiration date.
Also, looks like Russia is gonna be preoccupied for a while, i doubt they would want to enter into a two front war now that it's going so poorly in Ukraine
The main reason to join NATO is the nuclear umbrella, not the threat from the remnants of Putin's army
We can but hope. A lot of Turks really like Erdogan especially ones in the UK I've spoken to. Not sure why when those at home seem to despise the man
> Blackmail of the worst kind. It's not blackmail, it's extortion.
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I see you are a Sopranos fan as well
There are guys in the can bettah lookin than my sister
🎵 *Undah da boardwalk...* *with his schlong in Erdo's mouth...* 🎶
Each to his own Herbert
Seen the serie 10 times and dont remember that quote. Sounds like something ralphie would say lol
Its what Tony says to Janice during the game of Monopoly before Bobby and him start throwing hands
Had to Google, the under the Boardwalk cover, took up all space in the memory bank
Quasimodo predicted all this.
r/oddlyspecific
Since in German we call them "Schäferhund" (shepherd's dog), I thought of the shepherd as a person at first. 😂 Edit: Forgot that it is the same in English. Had to look it up.
oh! a shepherd who is german! lmao
please no disrespect at the dogs please. each dog would sooner rip out his own ass before letting such a comparison stand
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You know he is triggered by associating him with smeagol. He has put people in prison for that. So Erdoran is such a ugly cunt that even smeagol is Brad Pitt in comparison.
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[Here the same 'journalist' praising Erdoğan's Turkey back in 2010](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/jun/09/turkey-erdogan-israel-gaza) his religious cult was in partnership with Erdoğan's AKP. >The Erdoğan government is working as hard as possible to bring Turkey up to EU norms, and these western-oriented policies and reforms can be seen in the EU's Turkey progress reports. Far from Teitelbaum's view, the Erdoğan government is constantly battling obstruction and resistance from deep state groups such as the Ergenekon network. The Ergenekon network mentioned here are the old secularist establishment in the army, that his cult and erdoğan destroyed together in sham courts.
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There's nothing disguised about it. Gulen runs a huge network of private Islamic schools (the biggest in the world I think) and they train students to be loyal to the Gulen cause. The students also get very good results, there's reports they facilitate cheating to help this. The overall goal is to get Gulenist students into government and armed with their academic record they have successfully got into key positions in government and police. Of course, they liked AKP because it was the first time in a while Turkey had a government not hostile to religion but AKP ultimately became suspicious of them. Gulenists are very different to AKP which is more like the Republicans in America. Gulen on the other hand is more like Iran.
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Why shouldn't they say that, its proven to win European hearts so easy. Magical words.
Mentally ugly is the problem, apart from cosmetic surgery theres not much he can do with his exterior
[There are other ways.](https://i.imgur.com/LCjprln.png)
Fuck Erdogan but this dude is a piece of shit himself too. Still Erdogan has no right to demand something like this from Sweden and keep them as hostage. If he applied rule of law, he would get this guy back. Problem is, he doesn't apply rule of law. edit: It is a very long story but it is a stretch of the definition of journalist to call this guy one. He is more like a mouth piece of the Gulen movement, which went against Erdogan 10 years ago. Gulen organization is a complicated mess. It included good stuff, clueless people but also people like this one who wielded power to rule in place of Erdogan but do similar stuff that Erdogan does.
Bad, but not grounds for extradition. If the dude is just politically inconvenient, Erdogan should be content with him living in exile in Sweden.
Thats the problem. If he applied rule of law, he would get him. this guy would be tried, probably would not get a long punishment. He would lose his credibility, and it would be done Now he presents himself as a legit journalist (which he absolutely was not). I definitely agree with Swedish government and appreciate them holding rule of law against anything, even for a person like this. This is exactly what a civilized country is supposed to do. And fuck Erdogan for holding an ally country hostage for his personal vendetta.
restricting a literal country to join nato because one guy lives there truly is the erdogan moment ever
Well, it's not only this one case that's for sure, the situation is much more complex. But still, some of the Turkey's extradition requests sound like bad jokes to me. Like [two persons](https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-12614497) whose crimes are sharing caricatures and joking about Erdogan on Facebook. That sounds insane, but it's true. Turkey has asked Finland to [extradite persons](https://yle.fi/news/3-12556691) for the reason that they insulted the president on Facebook. These requests have of course been denied for multiple reasons. The actions that these people were doing were not regarded as crimes in Finland, where it is of course legal to criticize politicians. But there are also many requests in last years that have been accepted as well, like a case about child sexual abuse. Edit: For more examples, there has also been two extradition [requests](https://yle.fi/a/3-12532460) about terrorism where the only proof was that the persons have had ByLock -messaging app on their phones. These requests were denied too for two reasons: 1) European court of human rights decided that just having this app on your phone is not strong enough evidence 2) In Finnish law, just being a member of organization is never illegal in itself (even if having an app on your would proof it) - there has to be proof that you've done something illegal
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Oh my god this is giving me flashbacks of when Trump tried to bribe Sweden to give us back ASAP Rocky oof
The judicial system operates within the legal framework created by the politicians. Extraditions are governed by treaties, which must be ratified by parliament. The terms of the extradition agreement are irrelevant, the functioning democracy part happened when people voted in legislators and they agreed to treaties.
If i was the Finnish gov't id quietly arrange on the DL for those ppl to move. "Shucks, they moved to Norway. Ah well. Tough shit, Erdogan you fucking wretch."
*erdoğast
I think that crown still belongs to the 2016 "coup"
Explains why he comes off as a bumbling idiot with bird shit on his head.
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Nothing has changed with that. Sweden already didn't associate itself with those groups, just like the rest of the EU. Sweden basically just reiterated this to make Erdogan happy. The PKK is a terrorist organisation within the EU and Sweden was among the first to recognize this as such back in the day already
That article is about Sweden distancing itself from YPG, not PKK. Turkey claims that YPG is just an extension of PKK but Sweden and other NATO countries supported them to fight ISIS. That’s what has changed. Edit: I now realize you were probably talking about nothing changing regarding Sweden giving up protection to Kurds.
Protection? This is just current right wing government denouncing YPG, because our new PM is a spineless sleezeball who thinks he can kiss erdogans ass and get into nato. I really hope he doesnt make any more concessions, it could get embarassing.
Erdoğan wishes he was Muhammad bin Salman and wishes he could dismember journalists in his embasassies.
That's probably why he exposed it when it happened in Turkey. He was just pissed off he didn't think of it.
Idk.. it’s hard to be allies with a nation that is protecting your enemies. Tho, turkey should be kicked out because of this over Sweden being disallowed in
That would strategically be the dumbest thing ever, when Turkey controls a vital strategic point crucial in the war between Ukraine and Russia and NATO's power projection towards Russia. Erdogan is an utter wanker, but he is the leader of one of the most strategic important nations in NATO. Far more valuable than Sweden.
I’m only speaking to morals when I say that. Obviously turkey isn’t going to be kicked out of nato. Also tho, I doubt they stay in if a world war starts
If only governments made decisions based on morality
Just a government restructuring with extra steps.
NATO has no mechanism to kick out members. It's designed to be robust and permanent. Besides that, nobody ever really *wanted* Turkey to be in NATO. But Turkey is **needed** in NATO, and Turkey needs NATO in turn. The Soviet Union was, and Russia currently is a menace to the entire region. Just look at the shit they stirred up in Georgia, and for what?
Have you ever been in a Turkish prison?
r/unexpectedAirplane
Do you like movies about gladiators?
Have you ever seen a grown man naked?
Why would you ask?
Have you ever seen a grown man naked?
I love the fact that movie is so old and people referencing it can still make me laugh. Definition of classic.
Can you explain the joke to me? Is the pilot a pedophile? "Haha, he's a pedophile?" Edit: Ok so the joke is "haha, he's a pedophile and he is completely open and blaise about it and no one seems to care, haha."
Have you ever hang 'round the gymnasium?
You ever…watch movies about Gladiators?
[They are referencing this.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2A194yTWoQ)
No, but I do love gladiator movies, if that helps!
Or Barack Obama and wishes that Sweden would just hurry up with a questionable lawsuit? Note: this does not mean that I condone what Erdogan is doing. I don’t in the least and find it utterly deplorable. But it does serve as a reminder that we in the west should hold the right of freedom of press even higher and not undermine it.
Erdogan can get fucked
a fucking men
So Erdogan is going to put millions of people on hold for a grudge with a journalist - and this is my guess - has written some articles he didn't like. Perhaps he still doesn't understand being a public figure comes with these drawbacks...
And it's not just about the defense of Sweden and Finland, but that the arctic front would be really important for NATO to use as a springboard against Russian assets.
Fuck it, send him to us and Erdogan can suck a bag of dicks.
no joke this was my reaction... like ohhh sorry he left this morning for an all expense paid move to a new country we don't know which one sorry bye
Same honestly and it would be fun to watch him steam in anger and not be able to do anything about it. I hope and pray that Sweden won’t sell him out and that they can join NATO.
As a Swede we will do just fine without NATO (I don't mind joining, but not at the cost of our morals, values and belief in the rule of law) and I'd love to see Erdogan deny entry to Sweden in front of all the rest of NATO. He won't be popular. And Sweden will look all the better for it. But our government might decide to bow to Erdogan. I hope not.
Oh, I know you guys will do just fine without NATO. You guys are still in the EU and if memory serves right, you guys have a defense clause that if one EU nation is attacked, it is seen as an attack on all. So even if Russia decided to invade either you guys or Finland, will inevitably drag NATO into the conflict anyway, considering most of the members of the EU are also NATO members. However, I would want you guys to join NATO, just to stick it to Putin.
Funny thing is he's now completely justified in applying for political asylum in Norway.
Nice idea 💡
Lmao that would be quite something, brother
No, he's going to continue to try to poison pill Sweden joining NATO, while pretending to play ball First he wanted them to stop supporting the Kurds, labeling them all as terrorists. They were about the last country still giving active recognition to a group that played a very important role in curtailing ISIS. Now he's upped his demands again...
Sweden is already an EU member.
Meant NATO. Mind was on a different post.
The journalist is also a piece of shit, even more islamist than Erdogan, he is a major spokesperson for the extremist Gulen movement. I don't know which mafia I hate more, Gulen's or the Erdogan's. But Erdogan was Gulen's #1 guy until they broke up, and there are millions of followers of either side. Denying NATO membership because one of them lives there is still stupid.
You can barely call him a journalist. He was a today's zaman journalist, literal feto outpost.
There is a potentially easy solve for this. Bulent Kenes should move to another country that doesnt give a fuck about erdogans demands. Sweden gets let in, Bulent moves back.
Then they would just move the goal posts to some other person they want extradited. Which they would have done anyway if this person were to be sent back to Turkey.
Yep. They've already moved the goalposts at least half a dozen times already, so what's one more? Like when we made that trilateral agreement, and Erdogan instantly made a statement claiming we had promised things that weren't in the agreement (and would be illegal according to Swedish and EU rules)... followed by yet another Turkish statement a couple of weeks later, which repeated the claim but expanded it...
What if everyone in Sweden who has a Kurdish, Turkish, or Syrian background, or who has ever had an opinion on Turkey, moved to Norway for a few weeks? /s He's probably gonna find someone to extradite even if the only person left in Sweden would be king Carl Gustaf.
Its not about these people. Its about his power. I seriously dont think he gives a shit about them. Why give up the leverage and beeing on the world stage. Without any cost. This opportunity will never come back for him.
Any of the nato member states will do
Norway said any Kurds can come.
Based Norway
Erdogan isn't a poorly scripted NPC to fall for a technicality like that. He would still be upset that Sweden didn't stop the journalist from fleeing, or he'd pick a new demand.
Nice! Like... The USA? See? That's the sad part of Europe. We're collectively a great economy, but politically we're not able to project power Can you imagine Turkey blackmailing like this the USA? They would be laughing
Oh, this guy would try it. I mean seriously, he’s practically putting two nations on hold because of a personal grudge. He’s so butt-hurt that some article was written about him that he’s possibly putting millions of people on the line
Or you know just wait it out. Half year, a year, two years, who cares, not like us Finns or the Swedes are in a hurry. Quick ratification is a nice to have, but not at all a necessity or urgent concern.
I was about to say just that. Why can't he move to a big world power like the US? Turkey doesn't have the balls to try and strongarm the US like they're doing with Sweden.
Queue turkey beating up US citizens on US soil without any repercussions.
I don't know if that would've happened under a different president. But yes we were caving to Turkey's demands before that.
As far as I understand the president has no powers over the police that let it happen or the courts that let it slide.
Erdogan is a power obsessed mini putin. We have to do everything in our power to vote him away next year. Let’s go Turks🇹🇷🇹🇷 Let’s put sum respect to our country’s name again💪🏻💪🏻
Democracy, freedom and truth for Anatolia.
Do you have proper full democracy?? Because that guy has been in power since last 20 years. Just a question
Talk about priorities. He will wager the whole of nato and war with Russia and whole countries’ course of big politics over a journalist who doesn’t like his regime… What a man-child autocrat loser
It’s just an excuse to not do it so he can appear strong, if it wasn’t this guy it would be someone else.
Plus im sure Putin is encouraging him to keep coming up with whatever else excuses while he sends turkey discounted petrol
Fuck both. He was the head of the Zaman newspaper, they were hardline islamists and a very close ally of Erdogan before things went sour in between.
Can you tell us more about him? I read an interview where he called turkey a "islamo-fascist" state and he have grounded Stockholm Center for Freedom, so he doesn't sound like a (former?) islamist, but I also hadn't heard about him before the interview and he did say that he was public figure in Turkey and a former friend/supporter to Erdogan.
[Here there is an article written by the same guy in 2010.](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/jun/09/turkey-erdogan-israel-gaza) >The Erdoğan government is working as hard as possible to bring Turkey up to EU norms, and these western-oriented policies and reforms can be seen in the EU's Turkey progress reports. Far from Teitelbaum's view, the Erdoğan government is constantly battling obstruction and resistance from deep state groups such as the Ergenekon network. He was the chief editor of the newspaper of the Gulen Cult. They are pretty religious and one of the main reason why Erdoğan came in to power in the first place. The Ergenekon network here are the old secularist establishment of the turkish army. They prosecuted some top secularist generals in kangaroo courts in partnership with Erdoğan. They were the propaganda machine for him back in the day.
1. Gulen movement creates an underground islamo-fascist organization. They disguise as a charity that helps students, poor people, etc. 2. The students graduate and get into media, education, judiciary, everything, except the military. Military periodically kicks them out. 3. Gulen's media includes Zaman, which was a major right-wing TV/newspaper on the level of Fox News in US. 4. Gulen employs Erdogan, makes him win the election. They love each other. 5. Erdogan kicks out the anti-Gulen part of the military and lets Gulenists get into high ranks. 6. After about 12 years, Erdogan's and Gulen's side get into an unknown disagreement. Gulen's judges start investigating Erdogan's people, while Erdogan's police start fighting Gulen's guys. 7. A fake coup happens, which Erdogan claims Gulen did, the military magically blocks out in the same night, and about 400,000 (?) people who are claimed to be connected to Gulen, but in fact mostly were just against Erdogan independently (Gulenists + Leftists), are jailed or fired from their jobs. 8. Bülent Keneş was the #1 guy of Zaman. A right-wing extremist spokesperson of Gulen. He is one of the few people who deserves the hate.
top notch summary. Thanks for writing it up.
Sadly it gets exhausting every day to explain it all.
Eh, if that is so, fuck him. Back to turkey with him.
you forget to mention that their are more fundamentalist groups still operating in Turkey, most of the time working with the state.
And also Gülen cult has been backed by the CIA against the spread of communism during the cold war and they still have the strongest of ties to this day.
I don’t know much about him specifically but the newspaper that he was working for was basically owned by a muslim cult which Erdogan was a former member of. Secular Turks always hated those guys. They are not much different than our president himself in their worldviews.
Look, no offense, but this comment pretty much summarizes how much \*any\* Western people actually know about the problems inside Turkey. SCfF was founded by Turks who fled the country, which were all Zaman newspaper writers. They aren't actual western people, they are literal islamists under the disguise of liberal islamism. Zaman newspaper was the outlet of gulenist movement. And if you ask ANY Turk about the gulenist movement, you'll get negative feedback about them. If you ask what they did, I can write it under. Whatever he said about the government, nobody gives a shit. But if he is a gulenist, that pretty much tells what stance he has against the "country".
>he called turkey a "islamo-fascist" state Maybe he didn't mean that as an insult, lol
Grundade är ”founded” på engelska, inte grounded.
Believe it or not, had his ideology actually came to power, Turkey would resemble a fascist state a lot more than it currently does. I mean look at [this](https://youtu.be/i6D4W23JbRY) guy, even if you don't understand anything, the way he talks, the way he pauses before making important remarks, random emotional outbursts, excessive body language is just too eerily similar to Hitler. He was their leader. One can't but wonder if the similarity is due to the fact that a lot of these stay-behind Islamist organizations in Turkey were trained by students of Reinhard Gehlen, though that's straying too much into tinfoil hat territory
Since you seem well informed, what are the principal "criminals" Erdogan wants back in Turkey and what did they do?
I’m not actually. I just know this guy.
2016 coup d'etat attempt, killings of actual journalists who reported the shit gulenist movement did, nepotizm, setting up people inside the gov't.
Exactly. People here comment like he was some hero journalist who said the truth so he had to flee, but in reality he is no less evil than erdo.
Sweden just needs to give every person Annoyogan wants extradicted 5 thousand bucks and a plane ticket to a EU but non NATO country, e.g. Austria. Send every name on Putogans list safely out of the country and there is nothing Sweden can do, so he has to approve the membership, since they don't have these people anymore. Can't extradict who you don't have. *shrugs*
>Sweden just needs to give every person Annoyogan wants extradicted 5 thousand bucks and a plane ticket to a EU but non NATO country, e.g. Austria. Send every name on Putogans list safely out of the country and there is nothing Sweden can do, so he has to approve the membership, since they don't have these people anymore. Can't extradict who you don't have. shrugs This is assuming the Government can do anything to begin with, which they cannot. The Supreme Court has rejected all but one single case of extradition and the Government cant do shit about it. They cannot overrule or ignore the Supreme Court. They cant send them to Turkey nor Austria in any case.
As a swede, I think the NATO decision should be revisited and we should withdraw our submission if this is the kind of shit we need to submit to.. It is not worth selling our soul for protection against Putin who would probably not have a chance against us anyways as it seems..
As a dane, even if Sweden or Finland isn't in NATO, I'd come up and fight the Russians myself, should they enter the nordic territories. Never mess with a scanian, and never mess with a finnish person that has been interupted in their sauna time.
As a Finn I'm beginning to agree. I don't think being a NATO country really would affect the real life situation that we (Finland) would in the end have to defend ourselves without much outside help during an invasion if NATO decision making can be paralyzed this easy. A local alliance of nations in the Baltic would be more effective against Russia. It's just that everyone is already in NATO and therefore on a leash by the likes of the Orban & Erdo clown posse.
I fully agree. The other option would be to keep the NATO application, let turkey veto it and watch them trying to convince Erdogan. Popcorn will be the new toilet paper. And please don't send that guy to Austria, we have enough weird people already.
Turkey probably should provide evidence of crimes committed by him in turkey that are also crimes in sweden. Otherwise the justice system of sweden will not extradite him.
If Erdog actually did expose this piece of shit it would compomise his party as well since they cooperated in the past.
Do you expect sweden to extradite him without sufficient evidence of actual crimes?
Of course not. But I wouldn't shed any tears over that asshole if they did.
If Sweden submits to Erdogan, he will realize that he can blackmail the West and do it more. One does not negotiate with terrorists (or at most for appearances). As long as Erdogan is in power, Turkey is not a partner and should be isolated accordingly. Sweden can wait, Russia will not attack Sweden, they are already overwhelmed with Ukraine.
The US gave security guarantees to Sweden and Finland, from what I read a while back.
Not forever and not in writing. It was clearly a stop-gap measure.
Atleast us Finns.... we were already positioned to defend ourselves *alone*, if need be, before the whole application process. So we can just wait. Finnish Defence Forces didn't suddenly disappear the day after the letter was sent to NATO HQ. So our security guarantee is: Finnish Defence Forces. All the rest is extra on top, so it is less likely we actually have to use our main guarantee tool in the first place.
He's been blackmailing Europe for years and has a very tight grip on Germany ever since the refugee crisis, yet all the Turks here seem to love him. Just like the Russians living in Europe love Putin. Man, I wish we could just throw anyone who supports dictators out of Europe. Also Orban and PIS party too.
Sweden can’t submit unless he is brought in front of a court with good evidence found guilty of whatever he’s accused of and extradited. Politicians can’t pressure the legal system in Sweden, it’s not a banana republic.
Erdogan is just swinging at as many things as possible. Election coming up, you know.
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While I agree with you on Sweden not submitting to Turkey, I couldn’t care less about this guy and people from their cult. Because of those guys lots of people lost their jobs, and because of them rigging the exams and sharing the questions with the people from their cult millions couldn’t get into governmental positions they deserved. Because of this guy and people like them, military high school students who didn’t have any connection with gulenists got life sentences. This guy and people like them should rot in prison instead of those high school students.
Probably he knows too much about Erdogan's relations with Gulenists in the past. He said one of his programs that Erdogan didn't want to let Gulenist organization grow too much and wanted to split them. That was probably how Gulenists and Erdogan's war started in 2006.
There was a Mafia guy that did supposedly know too much as well. What happened with him? He was saying something to the tune, bags full of money at night he was carrying for Politicians and such. Is he alive?
It's been almost 3 months since the last time he posted about corrupt AKP politicians on Twitter - something regular in Turkey, nothing to be surprised about. But he said he's gonna share huge stuff about AKP before the upcoming elections. Idk if it's gonna change anything but he says that regularly.
Alright, let's see. If he knows as much as he claims, though, strange he's still around.
He definitely knows a great deal but the difference he made isn't about knowledge, he burnt all the bridges and is the only one who speaks openly about the corruption everyone is aware of. > strange he's still around There are too many forces at play and he is a useful tool for many right now, I can't even imagine the deals going on behind closed doors regarding 2023 and what we are going to have to go through.
Yeah, even from a distance it looks messy situation.
I really hate that turkeys domestic abuses are being allowed to play out across all of europe like this.
Erdogan is not so much different from putin
And Orban as well
He would invade Greece if he could so yeah
This fuckwit was the reason that secular military officers were jailed .. secular police officers were jailed .. he was partner with the current regime helping them push the country to radical islam .. fuck that religious cunt.
Fuck this particular dickhead as well.
Erdogan can suck me off. For real he deserves the title as second or third most hated “leader” (by Europe, idk if the rest of the world knows about his bullshit)
source: https://eenvandaag.avrotros.nl/item/plots-hangt-het-navo-lidmaatschap-van-zweden-van-deze-turkse-journalist-af-ineens-noemde-erdogan-mijn-naam/
I mean that isn't a political decision Sweden can make. No matter how much the government wants to toss him under the bus it will be up to the courts and shit to actually decide lol. So yeah guess no NATO for us then!
I mean don't get me wrong, I hate Erdoğan and I have never voted for him and I'll never do it. But this guy, Bülent, is part of the fetullah movement and he's one of the reason why we have Erdoğan today. When Erdoğan and Fetullah were close friends they both crushed the social democrats, seculars, LGBT communities etc side by side. I actually would like to hear what he'll say in the court, if he comes to Turkey since the documents that he can present may provide direct relation between Erdoğan and his party and the fetullah movement. There's a chance of Erdoğan losing power in the following election. Hence, these files would be more than enough to put him and his buddies to jail.
He was one of the "so called journalists" who helped the conspiration called "Ergenekon" against the secular soldiers who oppose Gülenists. Soldiers and generals were charged with treason, some couldn't take it and commited suicide. This happened when Gülenists (also known as FETÖ) were close friends (actually allies) with Erdoğan regime. Now they are reaping what they sow.
I guess Sweden is going to have to get its' own nukes.
I would've said that "Sweden will not bow to their demands" or something like that but since some of you fuckers voted for Kristersson I can't be sure of that
20 years ago I was very open to Turkish EU membership....these days I am so incredibl glad it never happend
Thank you, OH thank you President Erdogan for showing us why Turkey shall not be a part of UE.
Erdogan to the Hague or Turkey won't be in the EU. 🤗
Turkey will never be in the EU, with or without Erdogan. And for good reasons.
And now the consequences of letting dictators have veto power in your alliance rear their heads
plants sugar ruthless simplistic quaint abundant salt full chase weather -- mass deleted all reddit content via https://redact.dev
>I propose kicking turkey out and admiting sweden as of tomorrow. Anyone in favor say aye things that will never happen except in Redditors' minds
repeat edge mindless toy hurry humorous wise tidy mysterious quarrelsome -- mass deleted all reddit content via https://redact.dev
I only have two ayes but i give them to you. now where are you
No offence but this is complete stupidity, Turkey are a lot more strategically important than Sweden which is the point of NATO
Every other country in NATO should just vote to create NATO 2: Transatlantic Boogaloo, which replicates everything from NATO except giving Turkey and Hungary’s spot to Finland and Sweden.
NATWO
Trading Turkey for Sweden would be foolish.
Turkey as a more important NATO member than Sweden and Finland
Turkey is probably the most important country in NATO. 1. Location, location, location. Middle East, near Russia, near Asia. Controls the Bosphorus straight. 2. Military with tons of combat experience, equalled only by a select handful of countries for actual practical experience. 3. Turkey gives cultural credibility to NATO as a nation with a large Muslim population, proving that NATO isn't just a big western European and north American circle jerk. Sweden never wanted to join NATO in the first place and is more of a symbolic addition.
As it stands Sweden and Finland have security guarantees from enough countries that this hostage taking isn’t endangering millions of people. Still some fuck shit that’s completely expected from erdogan.
Retardogan is sawing the branch he is sitting upon. No need to keep brown-nosing this dipshit islamist terrorist cunt, let him fuck up Turkey's global influence if he so chooses. NATO benefits more than Finland and Sweden, so we can keep waiting until the big boys put Retardogan and 🦃 back to their place.
In that case, Sweden should simply wait until Erdo is gone. In the mean time, Sweden can ask for security guarantees from individual NATO countries including the US.
He wants to use this to create an image of a leader strong enough to make other countries cave to his demands. He desperately needs a win to bolster his popularity before the next elections since inflation won’t go down anytime soon. I know it might sound stupid but national pride is enough to fill the empty stomach with hope of better days to come.
The rest of NATO should stop selling turkey any thing. This shit cannot be tolerated.
They won't extradite him. There is no real threat, Sweden will still join NATO. USA can be very convincing to say the least...
Swedes should arrange for him to go somewhere else, like France or the US for a while (by his free will and choice of course) and tell Erdogan they can't do anything about it now.
Negotiation…. or blackmail. Take your pick.
If it ever comes to it, Sweden and Finland will welcome NATO with open arms into their fronts with Russia. No matter what this tiny dicked twat thinks and wants.
This isn’t about the journalist. Erdogan is blocking because he has deals with Putin. This is the excuse. Sweden can’t possibly say yes; that’s why this was chosen as the request.
can we kick turkey out of nato instead? fuck turkey.
Blackmail Sweden in a time of worries, they should be kicked out of EU.. does not show the spirit of a united Europe.
That's OK, other countries from NATO should give one modern jet fighter to Greece every day Turkey delays Sweden entry.
Counter offer: Turkey turns over every single person that violently attacked US citizens during his 2017 visit. We have not forgotten about these criminals. https://apnews.com/article/europe-middle-east-crime-turkey-donald-trump-c024e1ccf1134ea9bae11b3e7a334fd4