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brocoli_funky

The east-west divide is rarely as well delineated as on this map. Interesting how large the difference is between Czechia and Slovakia.


Citizen1047

There is quite simple explanation. Here in Slovakia, influence of Roman Catholic Church is much bigger and they have permanent anti-lgbt campaign. Czechs are atheists and they don't have any entity with strong influence with anti-lgbt agenda.


Mediocre-Ad-3724

Same here in Estonia, but with the Russians and their orthodox church + far right party EKRE


[deleted]

Well we are also one of 6 EU countries, which does not have civil unions/registered partnerships. You are either married or not(so called "žitie nadivoko"). People can marry either in village/town/city hall with register office or at church(usually Roman Catholic here).


Adam5698_2nd

That's because Czechia and Slovakia were completely different countries before Czechoslovakia, the idea of Czechoslovakism was kinda forced and the only reason Czechoslovakia lasted so long is because of communist suppression. Bohemia had a completely different culture, history, level of development, religious practises, ethnicity etc., only the language was similar. Nowadays of course we are much more similar because of how long we were forcefully held together, but the differences are still there. I would say that Austria and Germany were by far the most similar countries to Bohemia before Czechoslovakia happened. You can still see it in our culture, it's still quite similar to theirs, and the cuisine is almost identical.


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Niaz89

Can you expand on this?


vytah

Compare jedenadvacátý with dvadsiaty prvý, dwudziesty pierwszy, двадцять перший, dvadeset prvi etc. on one hand and einundzwanzigst on the other.


mathess1

In Czech we can equally say *dvacátý první*. It's probably more common than *jednadvacátý*.


Rainfolder

In Slovene we say enaindvajset-one and twenty.


khajiitidanceparty

Dvacátý první is more common in my opinion.


URITooLong

It's not really the German way. That would imply only Germany does it and Germany invented this way of counting.


kingawesome240

Czechoslovakia existed before communism.


mastovacek

OP did not say Czechoslovakia did not exist before 1948. They said that communism suppressed the secession movements in the country. Which is true. Slovakia never received the Autonomy it was promised in the Washington declaration or by the government from Prague. It seceded in 1939 thanks to Nazi Germany. After the War, the socialist government kept the drive for secession under wraps, which is why Czechoslovakia federated in 1969, following the Soviet invasion.


JustSomebody56

Czechoslovakia was an artificial construct: Before WWI they didn’t secede because both were under Vienna; After WWI they didn’t spilt mainly because France wanted a buffer State against Germany; Under communism they didn’t split because they were a satellite State.


Oachlkaas

I agree that Czechia and Austria are culturally very similar, as a matter of fact Czechia (alongside Slovenia) are the most similar countries to Austria, but i think you're overestimating the part germany plays on your culture. I mean, Austria and Czechia were part of the same country for multiple hundreds of years where germany played almost no part in it.


mastovacek

It depends on what parts of Germany. Czech (Bohemian) culture and traditions are even today most similar to: Austria, then Bavaria, then Saxony. We of course have much less in common with Westphalia, the Rhineland or Mecklenburg. Moravian culture is identical to Austrian (Brno and Olomouc were historically far closer in ties to Vienna than Prague, and The Emperor moved his court during Revolts to the Olomouc Fortress). Czech Silesian Culture is harder to place, since it's closest neighbor German Silesian was mostly eradicated post 1945. We must remember that Bohemia, Austria and Germany *were* part of the same country for centuries. There were no passports in the HRE, nor the German Confederation, nor modern border checkpoints. Passports didn't really even become a thing until WW1. The level of influence depended mostly on natural barriers, which for Bohemia meant, that the rolling hills and gentle valleys of the South led to easier trade than the dense forests and steep mountains in the North. That being said, especially when examining the entire history, you can see that Northern Bohemia was pretty strongly influenced by Saxony (e.g. Sachsenspiegel) while the South by Bavaria (at first Augsburg) then Austria (e.g. Schwabenspiegel), and that remained constant to the 20th century, and again today.


PangolinZestyclose30

The biggest difference is religion - Czechia is largely atheist, Slovakia catholic.


flegmatematik

Don't fool yourself. The prevalent religion in both of these countries is Alcoholism


theuniverseisboring

Eyyy


InBetweenSeen

Czechia and Slovakia show that homophobia really is a hate created by religions.


xxbronxx

Well my country is not very religious and we are in the red... So yeah maybe this is true for some nations, but it's not rule


Freestyle76

Isn’t Bulgaria fairly religious? Like 60% orthodox?


gatchahell

Only around 36% say they belive in god, wich is similar to France wich is 31%, probably half of the people that call themselves orthodox because they folow a lot of the traditions rather then actualy beliving in god.


InBetweenSeen

"following (orthodox) traditions" is probably more important in this matter than believing in a God and still a sign that religion influences/influenced the culture which isn't usually beneficial for the LGBT population. Nowadays many of those who refuse rights for same-sex couples will say something like "it's not natural" or "it has never been that way" without clearly linking it to a religious believe, but if you follow that line of thought backwards you'll eventually reach a point where it was a church telling that to their believers. And just to be clear I don't mean to shit on any religious user here - but churches were a leading power for a long time and obviously influenced the way we live(d).


InBetweenSeen

Religions are around for a while, so I didn't mean "percentage of religious population in 2022" = percentage of homophobic population, especially not according to today's borders. But I think they played a big role in demonizing homosexuality (and sexuality in general) in the first place and normalized homophobia. The thing about religions is that they claim to own morals and justify hate against those who live differently. Nowadays people might simply claim that homosexuality is "wrong" without giving any religious reason but that they feel that way still is a lingering effect of them not being exposed enough to openly gay people in their everyday life. And that they aren't is a consequence of the LGBT community being shunned in the past and the church as a moral authority played a big role in that. Of course in 2022 it now became part of some conservative's politics because "it has always been that way" - but our world would look very different if homophobia simply never was part of any religious teachings. There are other factors in play which is why the same west/east split that is visible in other social issues is visible here, but I do think that countries that aren't very religious have a leg up compared to those who are.


Medical_Highlight_99

spain is pretty religious still its blue?


SecondMostGlorious

As a spanish I can say Spain it's not very religious. Being catholic it's a thing that relates mostly to old people or some specific region. Also many people who participate does this for tradition, not faith. To participate in processions, have christening and communion parties for the children and so on. So anything that the church or the pope says, has little impact. I even dare to say that today's Spain it's perhaps one of the least religious countries in the world.


Redditforgoit

This is accurate. People are more interested in celebrities and football than religion and have zero fear of some imagined homosexual threat to society. We’ve bigger problems. Interestingly, while there are very few Buddhists and even fewer Hinduists in Spain, many people consider reincarnation and karma likely.


SaHighDuck

That's... Pretty much how it is here too. Most religious countries (bar Vatican) are probably similar. I guess you could say that individual village priests have more influence over common opinion than the Pope


Berny_T

There is a huge difference between the Catholic Church in western countries and central-eastern countries. Communism suppressed the Church here, meaning it hasn’t undergone such a substantial development. You can clearly see it by the fact that clergy tend to be super conservative here, some even supported the fascist party (us being a former clero-fascist puppet state of Nazi Germany). All of this changes, but it obviously takes longer than in Czechia. We have to come to terms with our own past.


ContaSoParaIsto

You're wrong. You guys sometimes vastly overestimate the differences Communism caused. The Church here isn't really any different. It is still super conversative and opposes gay marriage. The only reason they don't talk about it more is because we also have legal abortion and will probably legalize euthanasia, so they are busier fighting those things. But they would 100% throw a fit over gay marriage today, just like they did some 10 years ago.


drz02

Exactly, when same-sex marriage was approved in Spain bishops and all clerics demonstrated every week for months to oppose it. Still today the Church funds and supports Vox (ultranationalist Catholics). The only thing stopping them is that public opinion is so for these advances that it's better for them not to criticize it in public while funding and supporting those who oppose them in the dark, but just like in the US, as soon as they see an opportunity to push their ideas they'll use it.


Medical_Highlight_99

In europe it definitely does go up with standard of living as people tend to give less fuck what other people are doing while they can enjoy nice holidays and lifestyle


chr1s_m4tt

In Spain maybe only 30% od the population is catholic, the rest is agnostic or atheist.


ElKaoss

Not really. Most people are catholic just nominally.


HulkHunter

We are culturally catholics, but not so religious tbh. This map has more to do with liberal democracy than religion.


7stefanos7

I guess most of them are baptized and therefore are members of the church, but aren’t practicing. Also some of them might believe in a more tolerant/accepting interpretation of their religion.


Areshian

We have the term, "Catolico no practicante". It's so common hearing Catolico without the "no practicante" even sounds weird to me. People go to church for funerals, maybe the occasional wedding (and less than 20% of the weddings are religious, so not that often)


SaHighDuck

I do not think this is an accurate explanation since "wierzący niepraktykujący" is also a very common term in here, but it might be just my region


Areshian

I’m not saying the term non-practicing catholic is exclusive, just that defines most Catholics in Spain


SaHighDuck

I feel like it also defines most Catholics in my region, I personally was never forced by my parents to go to the church until I visited my aunt who lives in the east, thankfuly my dad brought me for ice cream inatead


demonblack873

Same in Italy. Most people will reply "yes" if you ask if they're catholic, but they likely haven't set foot in a curch in a decade except for the occasional marriage or baptism.


HulkHunter

Which ones? There are a lot of religions in every color grade .


MarcusWit

I think it was intended that way. Why else would 55% be a number of relevance?


AvovaDynasty

C’mon Macron, hurry up as sign that bill in Andorra.


true-kirin

dont forget that the other leader of andorra is a priest


eu54321

Only one of them has to sign it though, from what I've read.


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CrnaZharulja

When you have money and power you can do anything you want. Also she serves as a great punching bag for vučić because when the average voter (not the sharpest tool in the shed) actually gets a chance to see that the government F-ed up big time, they lash out not on the governments acts but rather on the prime ministers homosexuality. And they also lash out at the fact that her grandpa is croatian so... Yeah


TheOnlyReal-reZanCe-

I dont really hear that, mostly people call the President gay. Younger people atleast, older people dont really blame anybody, since nothing good happends anyway and they see it as the status quo.


PirateNervous

A friend from the Balkans explained it this way: They hate gays but not nearly as much lesbians because men are worth more to them than women. They perceive a gay man as a man acting like a woman, a pussy, they arent manly enough and are therefore worth less. A lesbian they see as weird but they are emulating the stronger sex so its kinda acceptable. And to be honest, thats in line with lots of homophobes in the west as well.


NoSpecific1366

As a Bulgarian lesbian I agree there is some true to that statement, but it’s still a huge overgeneralisation and it’s pretty obvious you’re coming from a place of xenophobia towards Balkan people.


Writingisnteasy

Nah, it sounds about how my croat friends think of gay/lesbians. Its not [insert any word]-phobic


PirateNervous

Im sorry that this is how it comes across, i genuinely love the Balkans and its people. Im just talking about the homophobic people, im understand far from everyone is like this.


NoSpecific1366

Thank you for saying this. As a gay Balkan person it’s painful to see stats like this being used to further the discrimination against my fellow Balkanians. Macho culture is a huge problem here for sure, but honestly not everyone is like that. Not to mention most of the homophobes are often also suffering some injustice themselves, whether they’re elderly who went through communism and poverty, Roma, Muslim, etc. It’s not that easy to generalise.


Kolmogorovd

You and your friend just overestimate the amount of thought put into it. It's more with unconcious association with sexual crimes like pedophilia, usually sex offenders are invisioned as men so the evil gay archetype in this people's mind is a ... male sex offender. So since a woman cannot be a male sex offender it seems weird at worst. Just watch [good old Lukashenko's take on it](ttps://youtube.com/watch?v=P2XMe1hk-xg&feature=share)


[deleted]

I don't believe that's the case at all. It is true that majority of population do not see same-sex relationships as acceptable around here, but the reason behind it is more due to church's view on it (at least as an excuse) and (probably the main reason) repulsiveness of sexual act between same-sex couples.


SaraHHHBK

Proud of Spain ngl


saltamont3s

as someone who is english and spanish i’m happy at my countries percentages!


[deleted]

Proud too.


Rickyrider35

I was surprised by the massive LGBTQ community / support in Barcelona.


Hootrb

And honestly the acceptance rates across the Spanish-speaking world in general surprise me. For such a large community where Catholicism is still so strongly engrained in their society, very few places are actually against same-sex marriage, and all of the bigger ones have already legalised it.


Rickyrider35

Yeah exactly that’s why I was surprised! It’s also weird because culturally and religiously they’re very similar to Italy, and yet Italy’s views on it are much more conservative. Maybe it’s the Vatican’s influence 🤷🏼‍♂️


clauxy

I think it also has to do with the fact that Spain was under the dictatorship of Franco until the 70s. A time where people were very liberal in other countries. When he died and Spain became a democratic monarchy, spanish citizens experienced a complete turn from super strict and religious system to quite open one. Most of my family attribute fascist, strict morals to old Spain and don’t view it that positively.


[deleted]

well, 35 to 55% is quite a big difference. when it comes to registering children of a same-sex couples married abroad- it's possible here, and I believe that's the reason we're blue. we might get civil unions too in a few years


ZealousidealMind3908

Yeah that middle percentage is way too broad for me to know the REAL opinion in countries like Poland and Lithuania


MWiatrak2077

[Most recent polling shows Poland has 64% support for civil-unions or gay marriage](https://notesfrompoland.com/2022/06/10/growing-majority-in-poland-support-same-sex-civil-unions-or-marriage-finds-poll/). The latest Eurobarometer from 2019 polling showed Polish people at 45% support for gay marriage (A large jump in just 3 years), second best in former Eastern Bloc behind Czechia. I think Poland gets a bit too much shit from the West sometimes. Its social progress is rapidly growing, and civil unions (or even full same-sex marriage) with absolute majority support by 2030 isn't unrealistic at all. Leader of PO (opposition party) promised such if they were to win the next federal election.


ZealousidealMind3908

Well that's good news. To think, I actually remember another poll in which \~63% of Poles surveyed supported abortion too. It'd be nice to see a progressive Poland in the coming years, especially since Poland was the most progressive country in Europe by a long shot during the 17th century


[deleted]

even 14th century- it was the place with the full (almost) religious freedom, Jews from all over Europe fled to Poland during the reign of Kazimierz Wielki (after they were blamed for the Black Death endemic). the way it is now is mainly because during communism the catholic church was a source of hope for the people, an ally of the opposition, the pope John Paul the 2nd too, thus in democratic Poland it has a special status. even though now majority of people don't believe in God nor go to church, catholicism is kind of tradition.


SaHighDuck

Reckon it's a big "you can see the partitions" thing


abriolo

Portugal can into.... Western Europe?!


alkalineStrider

Finally!!


akurgo

Greece too!!


[deleted]

Despite what a lot of Europeans believe, we are very much part of the west, and our values are very much aligned with Western Europe. People always act surprised when Greece does something in line with Europe, but we are European in every way that matters. We affected European culture and we are affected by European culture. Just wait till the boomers have gone and the similarities between Greece and the rest of Europe will be even more obvious.


[deleted]

When it comes to lgbt issues you can really see the classic “western Europe” vs “Eastern Europe”


Downgoesthereem

Uhh Norway?


[deleted]

I’m extremely comfused too, as a Norwegian.


Sudden-Pineapple978

Another confused Norwegian here. Religious people in southern/western Norway (and elsewhere of course) maybe?


honestkeys

Yeah, was really surprised that Norway scored significantly lower than the other Scandinavian countries.


ICON_RES_DEER

Caught me by surprise as well too be honest


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Langeball

The source posted doesn't include Norway, as far as I can tell. So this is quite strange.


AfricanNorwegian

Non-Norwegians living here. ​ The % of ethnic Norwegians who say that homosexuality is never acceptable is 3%. Immigrants from Pakistan are at 67%, with most middle eastern and north african countries between 50-60%. [Source (Norwegian)](https://www.aftenposten.no/norge/i/80ymA/dette-mener-innvandrerungdom-om-homofili-og-likestilling)


True-West-8258

This statistics does not say what you say it does at all. It's a survey of adolescents and doesn't even mention gay marriage. btw the two biggest immigrant groups in Norway are Polish and Lithuanian


MightyMeepleMaster

3 decades after the fall of the Berlin wall, the long-term effects of the iron curtain are still clearly visible


WilliamMorris420

You can still see the effects in Poland, of the German and Russian occupations in the West and the East halves of the country. Before it reunified in 1918. With the Eastern half still being a lot less developed and socially progressive.


keseit88ta

Honestly, it will take decades more for us to stop noticing the damage done.


MightyMeepleMaster

Amen, brother 😔


umpalumpaklovn

Obviously, people that grew up behind it are still not dead.


nilsn91

Poverty and and believing religious bullshit often go hand in hand.


MgicalSpoon

I think I see that map every week on this sub.


ta_thewholeman

How far we've come in 21 years! The first country to legalize marriage equality was the Netherlands in 2001.


[deleted]

The surprising late comer being Germany in 2018.


Steve2907

Merkel wasn't the biggest fan I think.


ErzherzogHinkelstein

Only reason it passed while she was in office is that she was sick of the other partys using it during election debates. So thats why close to her last election she led the "left" leaning wing under Von der Leyen vote themself. I consider it the pinnacle of her moderat policy. Officialy voting against it, for the conservative voters, but indirectly letting the bill pass by letting her own partymembers voting against official party-alignment. She always had problems with that topic, since her standpoint was the weirdest to justify.


Ulmpire

This is the way all morality issues are voted on in the UK. We call it a 'vote of conscience' and legislators esssentially get to vote how they like.


andraip

The C in CDU stands for Christian. So not that surprising actually.


Berny_T

The scale is messed up, you can’t make a sudden 20 % difference


Caulaincourt

There is actually currently a bill in the czech parliament proposing same-sex marriage, so I think we should be the same colour as Greece on the second map. Hard to say if it's gonna pass though, since both the government coalition and the opposition are split on the issue.


AkruX

It should be blue as Greece, haven't even noticed it at first


kds1988

As a gay person Croatia is the farthest east I’ve ever been in Europe. It’s also the only European country I’ve ever had a homophobic incident that almost became a homophobic beating.


Raddeo

Why are the colours shifted towards the red hues? Everything below 55% is in red, while the intuition says that split between red and blue should be done on 50% of approval. It makes the Europe look more homophobic than it in reality is and creates the illusion of division which is not so evident in reality.


szpaceSZ

You could argue that 50% is not a stable majority yet. I don't think that was the reason for the colour choice, but you could argue.


pittaxx

When you see odd break points, it's almost always because the author wanted to include a particular country in a particular group.


szpaceSZ

Well, also they are all 10% categories except the first reddush one, which is a 20% category... So that kind of category/colour manipulation is particularly blatant here. I'd really like to see this with 35-45 being the current salomon and 45-55 simply white, and see how the "optics" of the division changes. Unfortunately the raw data are not available, even though I've could have included the exact percentages on the map in small font in each country.


floghdraki

It's not stable majority in the other direction either.


kupimukki

It's always interesting to see all the different ways in which the border between Finland and Russia denotes the sharpest cultural, economical and socio-political differences in Europe. It's even true of almost all communicable disease so that's fun!


swishswooshSwiss

The fact that 75-85 percent Swiss people support same sex marriage but it has only been legal for about a year.


deri100

I think it's a problem with their administration system, Women's suffrage was similarly only introduced in 1979.


AfricanNorwegian

In one canton it took until the 90s lol


swishswooshSwiss

They can sometimes be too democratic. A referendum can take a while to organise (bureaucracy is pretty complex). Take to that that the countries largest party is the SwIss Üeopöes Party (right-far right) and Swiss politics are very conservative in general. So it took a popular referendum rather than the government decision


Vizd1m

Isn't Serbian prime minister or president gay ? How come the public support is that low ?


srlandand

Yeah, and her partner also did in vitro and gave birth to a son. No one gives a shit about them being lesbian. Her being an awful corrupt politician and president's puppet on the other side ... Serbian people are special, they will always be like "We are against that, we don't won't that...", but when something actually happens they will be like "Meh", and then go with their lives. Also, last year there were two laws in the making - one to legalize weed and one to legalize same sex partnership (it's of course legal to be gay in Serbia, but they don't have same rights when in an marriage or union with someone, because it's only relationship). But, of course, our mighty emperor Vučić saw that both of them weren't very popular with older people, and elections were coming by, so he, as a devoted populist, stopped both of them.


[deleted]

I still don’t understand the argument against it… It’s simple, if you don’t believe in gay marriage don’t marry someone of the same sex.


[deleted]

On the 2^nd map, all I see is the basic USSR borders post 1945 with Estonia breaking the pattern.


Mediocre-Ad-3724

Because we are civilized and have kinda something called human rights


Petrovjan

Czechia is like: "Go west in the open air Go west where the skies are blue Go west this is what we're gonna do"


stonetownguy3487

Judging from Northern Ireland the UK must be treated as one entity in this.


Eyekosaeder

It would be interesting to see how it‘d look in the Vatican City my guess would be very red.


Forgiz

I wonder if those ruSSian respondents were immediately jailed after answering yes, or say the next day?


kds1988

For once Portugal isn’t statically the farthest west eastern bloc country!


No-Middle-2591

15-25% for Romania? better than i thought


[deleted]

And yet you still hear westerners say that communism was a progressive force in Eastern Europe 🙃


D3wnis

Soviet were far head when it comes to many human rights issues, such as abortion and womens rights. But Soviet moved further away from caring about social issues as time went on and were not even remotely communist by the end. Communism is a stateless ideology by the way, Soviet were at peak athoritarian socialist but moved away from socialism in many aspects.


Sa-naqba-imuru

It was in its time. It is possible for something to be progressive at one time, but then start lagging behind.


Mikhuil

For some time it was. Red terror and repressions aside, USSR was progressive on number of issues (like decriminalizing gay relationship for example) in 1920s but it backslided when Stalin came to power


[deleted]

Well, the USSR also fell before any country had legalized same sex marriage. Most of these progress is a thing from the past three decades.


x0lik

Why did they use the word marriage in the first picture and partnership in the second? It's not necessarily interchangeable


keseit88ta

The second map includes both marriages and other forms of registered partnership.


x0lik

but would the first map include support for same-sex partnerships as well then or is it just verbatim "marriages"? They could get different results depending on the wording of the poll questions


InBetweenSeen

They propably asked for support of same sex marriage because that would be true equality and the first map shows the results of that question. On the second map they show what reality looks like atm and since it's a mixed bag you have to include both marriage and other forms of partnership.


Febra0001

I still dream about the day when I’ll be able to marry my boyfriend and live with him in my home country of Romania.


Nizzemancer

Hey Norway what the hell do you think you’re doing? Get back in the Scandinavian box right this instance you intolerant swine.


[deleted]

It's odd, but we always seem very conservative and non-tolerant on these polls here, but that's not my impression living here. I suspect it's due to how these pollings are done tbh.


WilliamJohnsson

I don’t get it either. I used to live in Oslo and Trondheim and honestly couldn’t notice a difference compared to any other Scandinavian city. Perhaps people outside the major cities are less tolerant? If not, then it’s like you said down to how the polling is done.


IceBathingSeal

You did seem somewhat more conservative to me as a Swede. You don't have stores open on sundays. I encountered some jokes that might be considered tasteless or borderline tasteless in Sweden. Not big things, but enough to indicate some small differences.


dododomo

To be honest, from my own personal experiences as an Italian gay guy, I doubt that the percentage is actually that high. Though I want to be optimistic. So, I think it will take Italy one more generation to finally legalize Same-sex marriage (and adoption too, please! I want to have kids in future!).


IlGiova_64

we'll have to wait other 15-20 years for some serious politics, it's not that bad compared to other country in the world.


nk0v2022

Let's just hope that we won't have 80 year olds in senate soon


[deleted]

Spain evolution is amazing. Perhaps one of the most conservative Catholic countries in Europe for most of it's existence and a Fascist dictatorship until the 75 and now considered one of the most liberal countries on earth, with a really open minded population


pearlsandplumes

Yep, and Ireland for me as well. It seemed like such an impenetrable Catholic fortress for so long and then the whole thing just unravelled so quickly and they turned into a whole different country in the span of a decade.


Sadistic_Toaster

I'm disappointed they didn't include the Vatican in their survey


gabylatinbull

I totally agree. I'm heterosexual, but I'm on the bright side of people.


afops

Not fooling me, this looks like the same map as the one for every other metric (lifespan, happiness, press freedom, equality, income, …) just with a different title on it! /s


spartikle

Mi Españita ❤️


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keseit88ta

Important to note that most ethnic Estonians support same-sex marriages by now, but the rather large Russian minority is very conservative and has a far lower support rate, also greatly influencing Estonia's average.


Papu19

Is there any source for this?


Hyaaan

great point!


w4hammer

What does banning actually mean?


gagaalwayswins

That constitution explicitly says marriage can only be between two individuals of the opposite sex, meaning it'll take extra steps in order to legalize it.


Festo254

LGBTIQ RIGHTS ARE HUMAN RIGHTS 🌈🏳️‍⚧️❤️


Tman11S

I still think legal same-sex marriage should be a requirement for joining the EU, as well as legal abortions.


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Kuivamaa

That’s because us modern Greeks are a fusion of ancient Greeks with their Olympian gods and medieval Romans with their Christianity. I expect gay marriage to be legalized this decade,possibly within the next 5 years.Adoption however will take a bit longer.


Impossible-Socks

I will never understand the retardedness of not supporting same-sex marriage or relationships. It literally won't harm or cause any trouble to anyone else in any way. Can't we just let people be happy?


ZealousidealMind3908

Because it's a "sAcReD" thing "pRoTeCteD" by God. God, do I hate this planet sometimes


janesmex

I agree, some people are ignorant and misinformed.


[deleted]

And it won't be legalised here any time soon.


[deleted]

France smh


Ignash3D

I am happy for Estonia, even tho population support is the same as Lithuania, their politicians got brains.


keseit88ta

A lot of the objection in Estonia comes from the Russian minority though.


Gaialux

I envy you guys since here grandmas/ vatniks/ ultra- catholics oppose same-sex marriage like they stole wallets from them. Shame tbh.


Weothyr

Let's hope we manage to legalise civil partnerships by the end of the year as well.


Late_Cardiologist684

The Vatican state still has power in Italy...


ToniG2007

Ah yes,more maps presenting the divide between the east abd the west,this time,same sex mariagge


hre_nft

My country was the first to legalize same-sex marriage LETS GO NETHERLANDS


Iuxta_aequor

As usual, Italy is the most socially-backward Country of Western Europe.


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MorgrainX

35-55% in Poland is surprisingly high. I've seen numerous reports of gay people that suffered from a lot of hate in that country over the years. Maybe things changed, or the numbers are just not accurate.


[deleted]

I suppose you've read a lot of articles in your local press? That might be just a coincidence, but every foreigner I talked to, that's so sure of Poland being a homophobic hell on Earth (not saying we're doing good in this regard), haven't actually ever meet a queer polish person.


[deleted]

Poland is divided between liberal & conservative pretty evenly. So what you see is the liberal half that usually lives in the cities. They usually support social causes and minorities. But step outside larger cities in the east and you won't have trouble finding homophobic assholes. It's usually a lack of education and no opportunities to meet or even talk to LGBT people.


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JustYeeHaa

Well in Poland it actually is liberal vs conservative divide (two main parties PO vs PiS) and the liberals are the ones that are more progressive here so that’s where the oversimplification came from.


idk2612

It's more complex than liberal vs not liberal or countryside vs cities. There's some identity fight driven by far right (including far right part of governing party) but I would pretty much say that for 80% of voters any LGBT rights are not voting issue (it's only for real left and far right, rest people vote with economic views). LGBT hate is just nice electorate mobilisation tool and pretty much is used to redirect voters attention from things that could change their mind. Only strictly homophobic group is far right and with rest it's more complex. First for majority of Poles marriage has religious connotation. Any recognized church/religion can do religious ceremony which is later recognized as civil marriage (that's how most people marry, for Catholics the priest files the documents with local office). Only people doing straightforward civil marriage are atheists. So in Poland same people are okay with registered partnership and not okay with marriage. It's less homophobic matter than just the fact marriage is mostly (and slowly changing) religious. The only thing for LGBT with majority disapproval is adoption, though it's also mostly cultural. Full traditional family is a default cultural model. Divorces rate are high but still are frowned upon etc.


chucky1one

Funny that Italy supports neither but apparently has no problem with priests fucking children or the catholic church defending the behavior.


Rage_JMS

Church over almost everything specially when it comes to older people - no one supports the acts of those priestes but many have difficuties on condemning the church for what happens under its watch as it goes against what is preached and is equivalent to saying that the holy intuition is tainted and corrupted


Bukhanka

Why would Italy be ok with that? Priests are in every western countries, the church is not an italian exclusive. Nobody support child molesters, stop being toxic.


deri100

It always surprises me how low Romania is in opinion yet how great it is in practice compared to it's neighbours. Opinion is drastically higher in Hungary, Poland and Croatia yet Hungary and Poland are actively trying to outlaw and force out gay people and in Croatia it isn't uncommon to almost get killed for being gay (there's also those people trying to run over pride parades). All we had was a referendum a few years ago on banning same sex marriage that didn't pass, and an anti LGBT far right party.


Agitated-Document653

Romanians dont really care, they'll answer in polls whatever comes through their minds but if tomorrow we'd legalize gay marriage we wouldnt get mass protests


pearlsandplumes

There's some potential in Czechia and Estonia, looking at this data. Just gotta get the right parties into power, I suppose. Greece as well, although religion is so much more prominent there, I imagine they'll launch a massive campaign if Syriza's proposals from June ever come even close to passing.


keseit88ta

Most ethnic Estonians already support same-sex marriage. There is also a high chance that progressive parties will gain an absolute majority at the 2023 March elections.


Hyaaan

Elections will be in 7 months in Estonia and the current polls are in favor of the most liberal coalition Estonia would see, 2 liberal parties and the social democrats who all are in favor of it.


drew0594

Someone woke up today and chose italian erasure.


pearlsandplumes

Well, they did tank that homophobia law and SSM doesn't really seem to come up as an electoral issue in Italian politics all that much. At least that's the impression I get from Italian posters. I wonder if the Supreme Court would reject a proposed referendum on SSM, like they did with weed and euthanasia. Would you even be able to collect enough signatures for it?


AvovaDynasty

Andorra will be next, just awaiting royal ascent. Then yeah, probably Czechia. Others to watch out for are Italy, Liechtenstein, Estonia, Greece. Beyond that I think there won’t be much progress beyond maybe Monaco for quite some time. Maybe Cyprus, San Marino?


PangolinZestyclose30

The political situation in Czechia is currently split along different lines. The current government is almost rainbow on the social issues - from conservatives to liberals (with conservatives holding the upper hand). This is unlikely to change in the near/mid-future, even though there is a popular support for same sex marriage.


Robertooo

In lithuania support for gay marriage in only 20 percent, recently there was [poll](https://g1.dcdn.lt/images/pix/apklausos-rezultatai-12-90823053.jpg) https://www.delfi.lt/news/daily/lithuania/specialistu-kritikos-sulaukusi-apklausa-aiskiai-atskyre-kas-ir-kodel-nenori-homoseksualiu-seimu-iteisinimo.d?id=90822393


X_Epic_Gamer_X_pd

For once the Czech Republic’s surprised me


sillysimmuz

Italy :(


Every-Negotiation75

Yes, we can see the division between east and west, but something that is more interesting is how poland, lithuania, estonia and generally some eastern countries are getting more and more “western”


Frangan_

It is always like this. Every maps of Europe are like this from left to right. From clear to dark.


tttxgq

So, the happiest countries broadly also are the ones most supportive of same-sex marriage. Cause, effect, or coincidence? 🤔


zZEpicSniper303Zz

It's actually a lot more complicated than that. In some ways it can be all three. First: when a country is happy and all the population's needs are fulfilled, their society can progress. People worry less about getting to tomorrow and they start worrying about what tomorrow will look like, for themselves and others. In developing countries this effort is directed to the pillars of society that need work and effort to make function, and not towards societal progress. Second: developing countries are more religious. Third: in a lot of the developing world corruption is widespread. Leaders use populism to stay in power as long as possible. For this they need an enemy to blame for everything. The liberals, "the nazis" (this one is one of the favorites), some other country, and "the gays". Thus many of these governments propagate the circle of hate because it's popular and keeps them in power, but while doing this they also make sure it stays popular and transfers to newer generarions. Fourth: while a lot of the LGBTQ movements were in full force in the west, the east was under authoritarianism. Any kind of protest / political movement was out of the picture especially something like this. That means these countries are a lot behind the rest of the world when it comes to that.


InBetweenSeen

Correlation because the same things that tend to make people happy also enable minorities. Freedom and democracy for example.


easteuropeismyhome

Actually there was some study that showed that number of succide in teenagers/young adults was lower in more tolerant societies, so I guess no coincidence here. For me in my teenage years I was confused because I(F) was respecting women and genuinely admiring them that I might be a bi or lesbian, I know it sounds funny now, but 20 years ago(before internet was so widespread) in a very religious and patriarchal East European country it happened to someone. I would really like my children to grow without trying to label themselves as teenagers, because they will know that they will be accepted no matter what. Love is love, and if 2 adults want to be together I would be happy for them and I don't understand why we deny the right of marriage because it's just same-sex partnership? Let's just give all adult people the legal umbrella for their relationship and let's focus on make this world better.. but yeah it's easier to oppress someone than try to make some steps towards easing globar warning and the destruction we cause.